test-drb April 2004

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

248 participants
481 discussions

by julesrichardsonuk＠yahoo.co.uk

A few initial questions after a couple of these beasties turned up at the museum: Does anyone have OS install media for these? We've got the manuals, but no floppies and I'm not sure what state the hard drives are in yet. Don't suppose anybody has schematics / service information? Predictably, the batteries inside the machines are toast and have taken half the circuitry with them (grr!). I'll clean everything up and then bypass the tracks which have been damaged / eaten away. Presumably there's a trick to starting these things after battery failure by feeding power straight to the internal relay - any ideas what voltage it needs though? And once running will I still need to keep the relay energised or will the PSU circuitry take over (even in the absence of batteries - I'm just going to remove the damn things completely)? I've got one hard drive to spin up and become ready after dumping half a can of WD40 onto the bottom spindle bearing - it wouldn't even turn before that. Now it just sounds like a sick cat. :-/ Hopefully it'll last long enough to get any useful data off it though. I notice what seems to be a SCSI connector on the system board - can I pull out the ST506 disks and just run a more modern (and hence reliable) SCSI disk from here? Or is the SCSI connector (if that's what it even is!) just designed to support a tape drive, and the machine always expects the boot drive to be an ST506 disk? cheers Jules

20 years, 8 months

VAX Architecture (was KA620)

by msokolov＠ivan.Harhan.ORG

Antonio Carlini <arcarlini(a)iee.org> wrote: > There were, however, other machines > called rtVAX <some-number>. I forget the exact details > but at least one of them was based on the CVAX chip. I > expect that there was something at the board-level that > would have prevented them running OpenVMS but the chip > was (I'm pretty sure) a standard CVAX. Hmm, did they seek process page tables in physical or in system virtual memory? If the latter, I don't see how can they be called rtVAX, as that by definition means the former. If the former, how can you do that with a standard VAX chip? Or does CVAX have an undocumented hack pin which when tied opposite to what general specs say causes it to seek process page tables in physical memory? > There's not a huge difference between STD 032 and the books. > There are a few paragraphs missing here and there but I don't > remember anything hugely significant [...] > [...] > [bug lists that were cut] But even these would not help you understand the > architecture any better. OK, I've already figured myself that all the really important "what is a VAX by definition and how to build one" stuff *is* in the published VARMs, so my project of building a new VAX is not stuck waiting for KGB to pry STD 032 out of DEC. I fully understand the VAX Architecture (and have a solid rigorous spec definition) based on the 3 VARMs I have (Rev 6.1, 1st ed. and 2nd ed.) and I should have something exciting on the new VAX front hopefully not too long >from now. It would still be nice to seize and free the full DEC STD 032 for completeness, but this task can be left until later when we can raise a large enough army (using human cloning, genetic eng. and neurolinguistic programming to make perfect killing-machine soldiers) to invade and overrun USA including ex-DEC facilities and archives. > The only major omission is the Virtual VAX stuff (which was > done for some three letter agency but never became a product > - I heard that it just ran way too slowly to be useful). > It has its own SID (09 IIRC, I guess(0)07 was already taken :-)). Ahh, thanks for explaining that! One fewer mystery. I have known about VVAX >from the Ultrix sources (which are on my FTP site), but I didn't know what it was. Now I know. :-) Actually Ultrix was made to run on it too according to comments in the source, though the actual VVAX-specific machine-dependent code is not present in the source tree I have, it just has SID and misc. definitions for it, pointers to VVAX code in the CPU type dispatch table (conditionalised on #ifdef VVAX), and comments mentioning it. And yes, the SID code is 0x09. Now that I know that VVAX was real (and not an Ultrix internal thing - Ultrix does have some fake SID codes of its own that do not correspond to anything in hardware), I now know what's in the gap between 78032 and CVAX SID codes. :-) So they were upset at MicroVAX I for taking 007, huh? So this only leaves SID codes 0x0C, 0x0D and 0x0F as unexplained gaps. I suppose that perhaps 0x0F could have been truly skipped after 78R32 jumped to 0x10 (I guess 78032/78R32 liked power of 2 SIDs), but I can't explain how has VAX 9000 got 0x0E unless 0x0C and 0x0D were reserved for something (that apparently never saw the light of day). Any idea what 0x0C and 0x0D were reserved for? Also what SID codes were assigned past 0x14 in the VAX's dying gasp? NVAX+ (NVAX in Alpha 21064-mimicking pinout) was given 0x17, wasn't it? And what about NVAX5 (NVAX in EV5-mimicking pinout)? Was it also 0x17 or was it 0x18? And then I've heard rumours about there being a never-released NVAX6... And why were 0x15 and 0x16 skipped? One reason it's important to understand the complete history of SID code assignments is that if we start building new VAXen, we'll need a new SID code registry. I plan on calling it DANA, for DEC Assigned Number Authority, in emulation of IANA (Internet Assigned Number Authority). But to make it proper, the new registry will have to start assigning codes exactly where the old one left off. And DANA won't be just for SID codes - there are also VAXBI device types and all sorts of ID codes used in MSCP/SCA, etc. > I think I've said before, what you really want is not STD 032 > but AXE, the tool that runs on your new VAX and checks for > correct operation of instructions. I've never heard about AXE from you, but I have heard about it from other sources. Yes, that would really be nice. Interestingly, however, it appears that at some point there were diagnostic programs available to the general public that, judging from the descriptions, apparently do similar instruction testing, though they were presumably intended for troubleshooting broken hardware rather than for validating new implementations. The KA820 Technical Manual, for example, refers to these: Table 7-2: Program Code Program Name Run-time Environment Hardware Tested EVKAA VAX-generic Level 4 (stand-alone, VAX instruction set cluster boot and run from the used by VDS exerciser: console) hardcore instruction test EVKAB VAX-generic Level 2 (on-line or Basic VAX instruction cluster stand-alone) set, nonprivileged exerciser: basic instruction exerciser EVKAC VAX-generic Level 2 (on-line or Floating-point VAX cluster stand-alone) instruction set, non- exerciser: privileged floating-point instruction exerciser EVKAE VAX-generic Level 3 (stand-alone) Privileged VAX cluster instruction set exerciser: privileged architecture exercise [descriptions of KA820-specific diags omitted] The descriptions of these diagnostics sound very much like AXE. Any idea where to find these diags? MS

20 years, 8 months

Computer History book in Arabic

by vcf＠siconic.com

I just learned that a new book on computer and internet history has been published that is written in Arabic. The author, Richard Hayek (based in Lebanon), is an IT journalist for an Abu Dhabi based newspaper. It is the first book (that is known) written in Arabic on the topic. I'm in contact with the author and am in the process of ordering several copies. As far as I know, the only way to get the book here in the States (or anywhere outside the Middle East) is by ordering it through him. If anyone else is by chance interested in a copy then let me know and I'll order you a copy as well. They are US$8.25 each plus postage. This of course has personal interest for me but I think it also indicates how that part of the world is finally joining the computer revolution. Computer and Internet penetration has taken a long time for most Middle East nations, but some have adapted faster than others. Lebanon, for instance, has some of the highest penetration of the Internet, with Internet cages everywhere. I would imagine other more affluent nations such as the United Arab Emirates and Bahrain probably have a higher per capita penetration of personal computers but I don't know what the controls over the Internet are. Many Middle East nations have internet access of some kind though it is heavily censored usually. Anyway, kinda neat. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ]

20 years, 8 months

Portable environment (was: Re: Available: DEC LA120 printer)

by mtapley＠swri.edu

At 19:57 -0500 4/22/04, Sellam wrote: > The computer is now just >hardware, and soon enough, with cool technology like keychain harddrives >or what not, you'll bring in your own OS and software tools and modify the >hardware to your purposes, leaving it as it was for the next user. I think the NeXT Optical drives were intended to provide a functionality like this. Carry your own OD media around, stuff it into the NeXT you sit down at, and your entire (256Mbyte) environment is right there with you. (I'm not sure I have a reference to support this, though. Maybe NeXT sales materials? Anyone else?) Performance didn't live up to the rapidly moving HD performance of the day, and the idea got overtaken by network via ethernet. Sit down, telnet into your machine back home. That makes me think that the idea will only work where 1) the portable medium has pretty good performance (speed-wise) relative to current primary mass storage, and 2) The OS/environment startup process is relatively short (say, maybe, < 20 seconds?) -- - Mark 210-522-6025, page 888-733-0967

20 years, 8 months

VT52 question

by wacarder＠usit.net

Does anyone have any experience reviving dead VT52 DecScopes? I'm getting a couple in unknown condition. One "lights up" and the other one doesn't. I haven't seen them yet. I've found good diagnostic info on vt100.net I'll see what happens when I put them in offline mode and run some tests. Ashley

20 years, 8 months

B&C Software

by Tdolbeer＠countrymark.com

Found a message from you from last year that indicated you have software for a B&C Microsystems UP200. If it is any newer than the version 1.0i DOS software I have for it, I'd certainly appreicate a copy. Thanks! Todd

20 years, 8 months

Selectric Terminal

by pat＠computer-refuge.org

So, I decided "what the hell" and got one of these: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3810203578 The auction calls it a Selectric model 731, and it's got a 55 pin round "Mil Spec"-style connector on it. Does anyone know anything about these? The only reference I've found via Google is to using this model of Selectric on a PDP-6. Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org

20 years, 8 months

HP 9121 Dual disl drive

by peter.brokenshire＠siemag-inc.com

Dear Pat, Do you still have this drive? If so please let me know. Thanks, Peter

20 years, 8 months

LSI11 Processor?

by terry.parfett＠amsjv.com

Hi Ron - do you have an LSI11 Processor board type M7264 that needs a good home? Terry Parfett (UK) ******************************************************************** This email and any attachments are confidential to the intended recipient and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient please delete it from your system and notify the sender. You should not copy it or use it for any purpose nor disclose or distribute its contents to any other person. ********************************************************************

20 years, 8 months

Blinkenlights (not only for PDP-11) -- the sequel

by GOOI＠oce.nl

Hello all! I have been busy interfacing the "real console" to SIMH last week. During last week Vince has drawn some Printed Circuit Boards (PCBs). Vince and I had frequent e-mail contact working through the designs. Basically, this e-mail is an inquiry to which extend people would like to embark on this project. So, let me know if you would like to participate in this project!! But before you put the $$ on the table I will try to explain in more detail what the status of my project is and what use it can have ... In this e-mail I address the following topics: 1. Some ideas where this project can be used. 2. A small description of the hardware. 3. An introduction to the firmware. 4. The interfacing to SIMH, state of affairs. 5. An estimate on the building costs. 6. What the project participants can expect. Allthough my primary design goal was a "blinkenlight" console based on the PDP-11 and a PC running SIMH, the hardware is multi-functional with the large amount of digital inputs and outputs. You can think of several other applications to control with this harware, for example a robot arm with some stepper motors ... just use your imagination! During this weekend I will update my website with a few .mpg files to show you a console in operation with SIMH, and a few samples of the console running in stand-alone mode. So, check next Monday the site http://www.pdp-11.nl/ and click on the link "homebrew PDP-11" in the left pane. The latest software version will also be downloadable. ** 1 ** Ideas for use. First, let me say that I do NOT support the idea of trashing a nicely working real PDP-11 computer to get a console! If you have a real PDP-11 console, this project will allow you to use the computer that runs SIMH (PC) to be controlled with the PDP-11 console as the real thing! This hardware is an other option for people that do not have a real PDP-11 with blinkenlight console or do not have the space for such a big (UNIBUS) machine. A third option for usage of this hardware is for people that *have* a real PDP-11, but running that system is noticed on the electrical bill! One could build a PC inside the real PDP-11, and disconnect the flat cables from the real console and connect them to this hardware. Running the PC/SIMH with the real console looks like the REAL THING but without the big energy consumption. Of course, the real disks and other peripherals are all "inside" the PC ... This setup might be a solution for a museum. The system is exhibited in a running state, and the changes made can simply be reverted to the original state. The fourth usage is for other computers that have a blinkenlight console, and are emulated by SIMH. The PDP-11 file in SIMH shows how to interface your favorite machine. You can run your favorite vintage computer in SIMH with that sexy switches and light console! ** 2 ** The hardware. We have two different design approaches. The first is called the "combi-board". The combi-board is a single PCB which contains the CPU etc. and *eight* 8-bit output ports and *six* 8-bit input ports. This in/out configuration can support the largest PDP-11 console, viz. PDP-11/70 full console! The second design consists of *two* PCBs, one is called the Core Board, the other the I/O Board. The Core board holds the CPU, etc. and the I/O Board offers also 8 8-bit output and 6 8-bit input. The combi-board is a little cheaper, but the two-PCB design offers expandability if you need more outputs/inputs. (who said this hardware design is for console interfacing only ?!) The design efforts of Vince and I are focussed on the 2 PCB version. Note. If you checked my website and had a look at the schematic diagrams, I must tell you that there are a few minor changes. For example, the expensive Dallas RS-232 converter chip is replaced by the cheaper MAXIM MAX232A chip. Further the 8kbytes firmware EPROM 2764 was full up till the last 500 bytes, so there was little room for any future development. The address decoder LS138 is substituted by one 74LS139 thus enabling the change from the 2764 to one 27128 16 kbytes EPROM. That also eliminates the need for an optional 2nd 2764 EPROM socket, which saves space on the PCB. ** 3 ** The firmware. The firmware contains in approx. 8 kbytes a simple debugging monitor and the console software. Which software (monitor or console) starts is determined by a push-button at reset. Both talk to a terminal via the RS-232 port at 9600 Bd. In the console mode, the RS-232 connects to the interface software added to SIMH to control the console from SIMH. It is completely free to which input port and bit(s) you connect the switches and the (momentary) toggles. Via the firmware you 'learn' the console where the switches/toggles are connected. The firmware handles the appropriate way of processing toggles and debouncing. ** 4 ** Interfacing to SIMH. I added two extra files (one .c and .h), and made simple changes and additions to the files scp.c and pdp11_cpu.c of the SIMH software. Current state of affairs: ADDRESS and DATA LEDs are functional, also the USER, VIRTUAL, CONS, and RUN LEDs. I have not yet spend time to find a way to implement the control from SIMH for the BUS & PROC LED. The toggles LOAD ADRS, EXAM, CONT, START, and DEP work as you would expect on a real PDP-11/40 (aka PDP-11/35 OEM version). The ENAB/HALT switch is operational too, HALTs the emulated software when it runs, and changes CONT and START to STEP and RESET while in the halted state, the switch in the position HALT. While STEPping the software the ADDRESS & DATA LEDs are correctly updated after every single instruction execution. ** 5 ** The costs of the project. First, I need to know how many people would like to participate in this project. The more people join, the cheaper the production costs of professionally made PCBs become. The (single) combi-board will be somewhere around $40 to $50, and the two PCB design (Core and I/O) will be slightly more expensive, the 2 boards will cost approx $10 more than the combi-board. This solution provides expandability for hobbyists, or use in other projects. The required components to populate the PCB(s) can be seen in the diagrams on my website. You can make an approximate calculation what these components cost. Probably prices are lower in the USA compared to The Netherlands where I live ... ** 6 ** What will you get if you join the project? I will write a clear, well documented manual that describes the PCBs, the protocol, and a step-by-step DIY building the PCB(s) with clear *full color* pictures. The firmware and the modified SIMH files can be downloaded from my website. However, I will offer a pre-programmed 27128 for just the cost of the IC (here in The Netherlands). You can also snail-mail me an *empty* 27128, and I will program that one for you, but I doubt if that option would be cheaper ... REMARK. If you would like to participate in this project, but are not sure to successfully solder the PCB(s), I will offer a (payed) service that delivers a working/tested PCB (or two PCBs). The modifications required in SIMH are done for version 3.2.0. The first work was done on version 2.4.0, and I found a few changes were needed, as scp.c was changed. However, when a new version of SIMH is available I will put the required changes on my website within, say two weeks. So, unless SIMH changes drastically, continuity will be guaranteed on short notice, else I will need a little more time! If you join the project for the hardware, but do not intend to use it for a console, but in some other project, you can ask me questions too. I will give answers to the best I can as long as they involve the design, or the software. I have good knowledge of MC6802 assembly programming. Please feel free to write an e-mail to me if you have any questions! I will try to answer all questions in private e-mail, next week. If the question is general I will post a follow-up in this thread. regards, - Henk, PA8PDP.

20 years, 8 months

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test-drb April 2004