A few initial questions after a couple of these beasties turned up at
the museum:
Does anyone have OS install media for these? We've got the manuals, but
no floppies and I'm not sure what state the hard drives are in yet.
Don't suppose anybody has schematics / service information?
Predictably, the batteries inside the machines are toast and have taken
half the circuitry with them (grr!). I'll clean everything up and then
bypass the tracks which have been damaged / eaten away. Presumably
there's a trick to starting these things after battery failure by
feeding power straight to the internal relay - any ideas what voltage it
needs though? And once running will I still need to keep the relay
energised or will the PSU circuitry take over (even in the absence of
batteries - I'm just going to remove the damn things completely)?
I've got one hard drive to spin up and become ready after dumping half a
can of WD40 onto the bottom spindle bearing - it wouldn't even turn
before that. Now it just sounds like a sick cat. :-/
Hopefully it'll last long enough to get any useful data off it though.
I notice what seems to be a SCSI connector on the system board - can I
pull out the ST506 disks and just run a more modern (and hence reliable)
SCSI disk from here? Or is the SCSI connector (if that's what it even
is!) just designed to support a tape drive, and the machine always
expects the boot drive to be an ST506 disk?
cheers
Jules
Antonio Carlini <arcarlini(a)iee.org> wrote:
> There were, however, other machines
> called rtVAX <some-number>. I forget the exact details
> but at least one of them was based on the CVAX chip. I
> expect that there was something at the board-level that
> would have prevented them running OpenVMS but the chip
> was (I'm pretty sure) a standard CVAX.
Hmm, did they seek process page tables in physical or in system virtual memory?
If the latter, I don't see how can they be called rtVAX, as that by definition
means the former. If the former, how can you do that with a standard VAX chip?
Or does CVAX have an undocumented hack pin which when tied opposite to what
general specs say causes it to seek process page tables in physical memory?
> There's not a huge difference between STD 032 and the books.
> There are a few paragraphs missing here and there but I don't
> remember anything hugely significant [...]
> [...]
> [bug lists that were cut] But even these would not help you understand the
> architecture any better.
OK, I've already figured myself that all the really important "what is a VAX by
definition and how to build one" stuff *is* in the published VARMs, so my
project of building a new VAX is not stuck waiting for KGB to pry STD 032 out
of DEC. I fully understand the VAX Architecture (and have a solid rigorous
spec definition) based on the 3 VARMs I have (Rev 6.1, 1st ed. and 2nd ed.) and
I should have something exciting on the new VAX front hopefully not too long
>from now. It would still be nice to seize and free the full DEC STD 032 for
completeness, but this task can be left until later when we can raise a large
enough army (using human cloning, genetic eng. and neurolinguistic programming
to make perfect killing-machine soldiers) to invade and overrun USA including
ex-DEC facilities and archives.
> The only major omission is the Virtual VAX stuff (which was
> done for some three letter agency but never became a product
> - I heard that it just ran way too slowly to be useful).
> It has its own SID (09 IIRC, I guess(0)07 was already taken :-)).
Ahh, thanks for explaining that! One fewer mystery. I have known about VVAX
>from the Ultrix sources (which are on my FTP site), but I didn't know what it
was. Now I know. :-) Actually Ultrix was made to run on it too according to
comments in the source, though the actual VVAX-specific machine-dependent code
is not present in the source tree I have, it just has SID and misc. definitions
for it, pointers to VVAX code in the CPU type dispatch table (conditionalised
on #ifdef VVAX), and comments mentioning it. And yes, the SID code is 0x09.
Now that I know that VVAX was real (and not an Ultrix internal thing - Ultrix
does have some fake SID codes of its own that do not correspond to anything in
hardware), I now know what's in the gap between 78032 and CVAX SID codes. :-)
So they were upset at MicroVAX I for taking 007, huh?
So this only leaves SID codes 0x0C, 0x0D and 0x0F as unexplained gaps. I
suppose that perhaps 0x0F could have been truly skipped after 78R32 jumped to
0x10 (I guess 78032/78R32 liked power of 2 SIDs), but I can't explain how has
VAX 9000 got 0x0E unless 0x0C and 0x0D were reserved for something (that
apparently never saw the light of day). Any idea what 0x0C and 0x0D were
reserved for? Also what SID codes were assigned past 0x14 in the VAX's dying
gasp? NVAX+ (NVAX in Alpha 21064-mimicking pinout) was given 0x17, wasn't it?
And what about NVAX5 (NVAX in EV5-mimicking pinout)? Was it also 0x17 or was
it 0x18? And then I've heard rumours about there being a never-released
NVAX6... And why were 0x15 and 0x16 skipped?
One reason it's important to understand the complete history of SID code
assignments is that if we start building new VAXen, we'll need a new SID code
registry. I plan on calling it DANA, for DEC Assigned Number Authority, in
emulation of IANA (Internet Assigned Number Authority). But to make it proper,
the new registry will have to start assigning codes exactly where the old one
left off.
And DANA won't be just for SID codes - there are also VAXBI device types and all
sorts of ID codes used in MSCP/SCA, etc.
> I think I've said before, what you really want is not STD 032
> but AXE, the tool that runs on your new VAX and checks for
> correct operation of instructions.
I've never heard about AXE from you, but I have heard about it from other
sources. Yes, that would really be nice.
Interestingly, however, it appears that at some point there were diagnostic
programs available to the general public that, judging from the descriptions,
apparently do similar instruction testing, though they were presumably intended
for troubleshooting broken hardware rather than for validating new
implementations. The KA820 Technical Manual, for example, refers to these:
Table 7-2:
Program Code Program Name Run-time Environment Hardware Tested
EVKAA VAX-generic Level 4 (stand-alone, VAX instruction set
cluster boot and run from the used by VDS
exerciser: console)
hardcore
instruction
test
EVKAB VAX-generic Level 2 (on-line or Basic VAX instruction
cluster stand-alone) set, nonprivileged
exerciser:
basic
instruction
exerciser
EVKAC VAX-generic Level 2 (on-line or Floating-point VAX
cluster stand-alone) instruction set, non-
exerciser: privileged
floating-point
instruction
exerciser
EVKAE VAX-generic Level 3 (stand-alone) Privileged VAX
cluster instruction set
exerciser:
privileged
architecture
exercise
[descriptions of KA820-specific diags omitted]
The descriptions of these diagnostics sound very much like AXE. Any idea where
to find these diags?
MS
I just learned that a new book on computer and internet history has been
published that is written in Arabic. The author, Richard Hayek (based in
Lebanon), is an IT journalist for an Abu Dhabi based newspaper. It is
the first book (that is known) written in Arabic on the topic. I'm in
contact with the author and am in the process of ordering several copies.
As far as I know, the only way to get the book here in the States (or
anywhere outside the Middle East) is by ordering it through him. If
anyone else is by chance interested in a copy then let me know and I'll
order you a copy as well. They are US$8.25 each plus postage.
This of course has personal interest for me but I think it also indicates
how that part of the world is finally joining the computer revolution.
Computer and Internet penetration has taken a long time for most Middle
East nations, but some have adapted faster than others. Lebanon, for
instance, has some of the highest penetration of the Internet, with
Internet cages everywhere. I would imagine other more affluent nations
such as the United Arab Emirates and Bahrain probably have a higher per
capita penetration of personal computers but I don't know what the
controls over the Internet are. Many Middle East nations have internet
access of some kind though it is heavily censored usually.
Anyway, kinda neat.
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ]
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At 19:57 -0500 4/22/04, Sellam wrote:
> The computer is now just
>hardware, and soon enough, with cool technology like keychain harddrives
>or what not, you'll bring in your own OS and software tools and modify the
>hardware to your purposes, leaving it as it was for the next user.
I think the NeXT Optical drives were intended to provide a
functionality like this. Carry your own OD media around, stuff it
into the NeXT you sit down at, and your entire (256Mbyte) environment
is right there with you. (I'm not sure I have a reference to support
this, though. Maybe NeXT sales materials? Anyone else?)
Performance didn't live up to the rapidly moving HD performance of
the day, and the idea got overtaken by network via ethernet. Sit
down, telnet into your machine back home.
That makes me think that the idea will only work where 1) the
portable medium has pretty good performance (speed-wise) relative to
current primary mass storage, and 2) The OS/environment startup
process is relatively short (say, maybe, < 20 seconds?)
--
- Mark
210-522-6025, page 888-733-0967
Does anyone have any experience reviving dead VT52 DecScopes?
I'm getting a couple in unknown condition. One "lights up" and the other one doesn't.
I haven't seen them yet. I've found good diagnostic info on vt100.net
I'll see what happens when I put them in offline mode and run some tests.
Ashley
Found a message from you from last year that indicated you have software
for a B&C Microsystems UP200. If it is any newer than the version 1.0i
DOS software I have for it, I'd certainly appreicate a copy.
Thanks!
Todd
Hi Ron - do you have an LSI11 Processor board type M7264 that needs a good
home?
Terry Parfett (UK)
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Hello all!
I have been busy interfacing the "real console" to SIMH last week.
During last week Vince has drawn some Printed Circuit Boards (PCBs).
Vince and I had frequent e-mail contact working through the designs.
Basically, this e-mail is an inquiry to which extend people would
like to embark on this project.
So, let me know if you would like to participate in this project!!
But before you put the $$ on the table I will try to explain in more
detail what the status of my project is and what use it can have ...
In this e-mail I address the following topics:
1. Some ideas where this project can be used.
2. A small description of the hardware.
3. An introduction to the firmware.
4. The interfacing to SIMH, state of affairs.
5. An estimate on the building costs.
6. What the project participants can expect.
Allthough my primary design goal was a "blinkenlight" console based
on the PDP-11 and a PC running SIMH, the hardware is multi-functional
with the large amount of digital inputs and outputs. You can think of
several other applications to control with this harware, for example
a robot arm with some stepper motors ... just use your imagination!
During this weekend I will update my website with a few .mpg files to
show you a console in operation with SIMH, and a few samples of the
console running in stand-alone mode. So, check next Monday the site
http://www.pdp-11.nl/ and click on the link "homebrew PDP-11" in the
left pane. The latest software version will also be downloadable.
** 1 ** Ideas for use.
First, let me say that I do NOT support the idea of trashing a nicely
working real PDP-11 computer to get a console!
If you have a real PDP-11 console, this project will allow you
to use the computer that runs SIMH (PC) to be controlled with the
PDP-11 console as the real thing!
This hardware is an other option for people that do not have a
real PDP-11 with blinkenlight console or do not have the space for
such a big (UNIBUS) machine.
A third option for usage of this hardware is for people that
*have* a real PDP-11, but running that system is noticed on the
electrical bill! One could build a PC inside the real PDP-11, and
disconnect the flat cables from the real console and connect them to
this hardware. Running the PC/SIMH with the real console looks like
the REAL THING but without the big energy consumption. Of course, the
real disks and other peripherals are all "inside" the PC ... This
setup might be a solution for a museum. The system is exhibited in
a running state, and the changes made can simply be reverted to the
original state.
The fourth usage is for other computers that have a blinkenlight
console, and are emulated by SIMH. The PDP-11 file in SIMH shows how
to interface your favorite machine. You can run your favorite vintage
computer in SIMH with that sexy switches and light console!
** 2 ** The hardware.
We have two different design approaches.
The first is called the "combi-board". The combi-board is a single
PCB which contains the CPU etc. and *eight* 8-bit output ports and
*six* 8-bit input ports. This in/out configuration can support the
largest PDP-11 console, viz. PDP-11/70 full console!
The second design consists of *two* PCBs, one is called the Core
Board, the other the I/O Board. The Core board holds the CPU, etc.
and the I/O Board offers also 8 8-bit output and 6 8-bit input.
The combi-board is a little cheaper, but the two-PCB design offers
expandability if you need more outputs/inputs.
(who said this hardware design is for console interfacing only ?!)
The design efforts of Vince and I are focussed on the 2 PCB version.
Note.
If you checked my website and had a look at the schematic diagrams,
I must tell you that there are a few minor changes. For example, the
expensive Dallas RS-232 converter chip is replaced by the cheaper
MAXIM MAX232A chip. Further the 8kbytes firmware EPROM 2764 was full
up till the last 500 bytes, so there was little room for any future
development. The address decoder LS138 is substituted by one 74LS139
thus enabling the change from the 2764 to one 27128 16 kbytes EPROM.
That also eliminates the need for an optional 2nd 2764 EPROM socket,
which saves space on the PCB.
** 3 ** The firmware.
The firmware contains in approx. 8 kbytes a simple debugging monitor
and the console software. Which software (monitor or console) starts
is determined by a push-button at reset. Both talk to a terminal via
the RS-232 port at 9600 Bd. In the console mode, the RS-232 connects
to the interface software added to SIMH to control the console from
SIMH.
It is completely free to which input port and bit(s) you connect the
switches and the (momentary) toggles. Via the firmware you 'learn'
the console where the switches/toggles are connected. The firmware
handles the appropriate way of processing toggles and debouncing.
** 4 ** Interfacing to SIMH.
I added two extra files (one .c and .h), and made simple changes and
additions to the files scp.c and pdp11_cpu.c of the SIMH software.
Current state of affairs: ADDRESS and DATA LEDs are functional, also
the USER, VIRTUAL, CONS, and RUN LEDs. I have not yet spend time to
find a way to implement the control from SIMH for the BUS & PROC LED.
The toggles LOAD ADRS, EXAM, CONT, START, and DEP work as you would
expect on a real PDP-11/40 (aka PDP-11/35 OEM version).
The ENAB/HALT switch is operational too, HALTs the emulated software
when it runs, and changes CONT and START to STEP and RESET while in
the halted state, the switch in the position HALT.
While STEPping the software the ADDRESS & DATA LEDs are correctly
updated after every single instruction execution.
** 5 ** The costs of the project.
First, I need to know how many people would like to participate in
this project. The more people join, the cheaper the production costs
of professionally made PCBs become.
The (single) combi-board will be somewhere around $40 to $50, and the
two PCB design (Core and I/O) will be slightly more expensive, the 2
boards will cost approx $10 more than the combi-board. This solution
provides expandability for hobbyists, or use in other projects.
The required components to populate the PCB(s) can be seen in the
diagrams on my website. You can make an approximate calculation what
these components cost. Probably prices are lower in the USA compared
to The Netherlands where I live ...
** 6 ** What will you get if you join the project?
I will write a clear, well documented manual that describes the PCBs,
the protocol, and a step-by-step DIY building the PCB(s) with clear
*full color* pictures.
The firmware and the modified SIMH files can be downloaded from my
website. However, I will offer a pre-programmed 27128 for just the
cost of the IC (here in The Netherlands). You can also snail-mail me
an *empty* 27128, and I will program that one for you, but I doubt if
that option would be cheaper ...
REMARK.
If you would like to participate in this project, but are not sure to
successfully solder the PCB(s), I will offer a (payed) service that
delivers a working/tested PCB (or two PCBs).
The modifications required in SIMH are done for version 3.2.0. The
first work was done on version 2.4.0, and I found a few changes were
needed, as scp.c was changed. However, when a new version of SIMH is
available I will put the required changes on my website within, say
two weeks. So, unless SIMH changes drastically, continuity will be
guaranteed on short notice, else I will need a little more time!
If you join the project for the hardware, but do not intend to use
it for a console, but in some other project, you can ask me questions
too. I will give answers to the best I can as long as they involve
the design, or the software. I have good knowledge of MC6802 assembly
programming.
Please feel free to write an e-mail to me if you have any questions!
I will try to answer all questions in private e-mail, next week.
If the question is general I will post a follow-up in this thread.
regards,
- Henk, PA8PDP.
