test-drb January 2004

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

290 participants
643 discussions

by cb＠mythtech.net

>Googling around for more info on NeXT Computer to flesh out my new NeXT page >on Binary Dinosaurs turned up something I'd really like to get my paws on >but I'll bet was consigned to the bin straight away - the 'star trek' >project started by Apple to port MacOS across to Intel hardware in the early >90s. So far I've found that a team of engineers succeeded in the port, but >it was canned in 1993 when Apple was moving from 68K to PowerPC processors >and it was found to be faster on a 486. I've never found anything that confirms the actual existance of said OS version. Although personally I don't doubt for a moment that it did (does) exist (I've just yet to see the smoking gun). I came back to the Apple Developer world in 95 (left the Apple Developer world in the late 80's), so I wasn't in a position to know anything that the developers might have known at that time. Although I suspect that none did know anything or there would be more "real" info out there. However, I do know that the later Rhapsody project did in fact take a turn to the Intel world. They got far enough on the first version of OS X for Intel that it was released to developers in beta (alpha?) form. I have a copy of it, at one point I had it installed on a P-166. It ran, but that was about all it did. I'd have to pull out my CDs of it to be sure, but I think the date for it was around 1997 or 1998. There should be info on this project available out there as it was no secret, it was originally a fully planned version of OS X, although it doesn't look anything like what OS X is now (from what I understand, its really an Apple-ized version of NeXTStep, but haven't never personally used/seen NeXTStep, I can't verify that). -chris <http://www.mythtech.net>

20 years, 8 months

New Classic Finds and etc. (Long)

by cfandt＠netsync.net

As some of you know, it's been quite awhile since I have posted much here. I was off list from early 2002 until June 2003 because of the large amount of traffic -some decidedly off-topic and a horribly stressful job. Had no time to keep up with this and several other old radio-related lists. Now that I'm out of work since June and presently working on a management degree, I've got some time to at least "lurk". I like the cctech/cctalk separation and subscribe only to the tech list. Anyway, I have added items to the Mound of Stuff around this house during the past August. There are several threads of discussion herein on at least three of those items . . . The significant goodies are a Panasonic CF-150B Business Partner and a Grid Systems GRiDLite Plus model 1040, both monochrome LCD laptops. The CF-150B has an 8 MHz V20 CPU, internal 720K 3.5" FDD, 640K RAM, AC wall wart, backlit LCD display (blue characters on green background), ROMed MS-DOS 3.30 (boots up as C:), optional 2400 bps modem (woohoo!) and optional EMS RAM Card expansion memory (1 meg). There is a separate power supply and a couple of spare NiCd battery packs (probably useless now), a couple of software disks (GWBASIC and MS-DOS 3.30 Utilities) and manuals for the modem, EMS RAM and system unit itself. The floppy does not read disks so there's troubleshooting which needs to be done sometime. Otherwise, it powers up and the built-in DOS & utilities work okay. The GRiDLite Plus, on the other hand, is not so well understood. There is no manual. A Google search found limited info here: http://www.computer-archiv.de/comp0139.htm , scroll down the page to "Gridlite Plus". Otherwise, just a bunch of battery suppliers. It has an 80C86 CPU, socket for an 8087 math coprocessor (empty), backlit LCD display (blue characters on green background much like the CF-150B, above), unknown amount of RAM, no modem in its compartment, and an internal 20 meg HDD. Cool. Upon powering up the screen shows "Phoenix ROM BIOS Ver. 2.03, 1/18/88" and a blinking cursor appears underneath while the HDD spins up. But the HDD shuts down shortly after it seems to do its initialization. Then after a minute or so passes a message "Hard Disk Diagnostic Failure" and "Disk Boot Failure" comes up. It keeps trying as another "Disk Boot Failure" message appears every minute or so. That's it. Dang. Anybody know anything about this particular machine? The HDD is JVC model JD3824G00-2 and is not quite the typical 3.5", 1" high IDE drive. Betcha they can't be found too often :( Thankfully, the external AC power supply and external 3.5" floppy drive came with the unit. However, the floppy doesn't show signs of life during the bootup process. Additionally, no keyboard input hits the screen although the default 15 character buffer fills and begins beeping at the 16th keystroke. Therefore, I cannot run SpinRite to checkout the HDD system or do much else. The OS's that are said in that website to be used in the GRiDLite are PenPoint, Penwindows, PenRight. What are all these?? Underneath a removable part of the case at the top rear of the machine there is a connector for the modem and there are eight ROM sockets, all empty. What are those for? A ROM-based OS or applications? The internal NiCd battery had wires soldered between its flat terminals and the respective spring leaf contacts in the system unit. Also, some clown broke the battery compartment latch during the sale before I had bought it thus causing the battery to not set tightly in its compartment. However the PSU is marked as used for Gridcase 1200, 1307, 1500 and the 3403 Drive. Maybe the 60 watt power output is too low to handle the HDD in the GRiDLite?? The PSU model number I have is 34170 if that helps. More troubleshooting to do. That is all I know about this machine except for the German site shown above. Anybody have more info on these laptops? I'm especially curious about the GRiDLite Plus. Another neat item I got is a really pristine HP LaserJet III for $15. Had only 600 sheets reported on the page counter shown on its test page. Absolutely perfectly clean everywhere inside. No stray toner powder nor paper dust. Has a 3rd party 4 meg memory card (total RAM: 5120K). In fact it was in its original box with manuals, all loosely covered with its packing plastic bag. Built February '92. It didn't work, just threw Error 52's which were not described in the manual. But online searching found a really good website, IMO, on printer repair and parts. FYI it is: http://fixyourownprinter.com/ A few of you may already know of this place. I followed the instructions to "tweak" a couple of connectors at: http://fixyourownprinter.com/tweaking.html -which nailed the problem exactly. Those connectors Canon had used (the laser engine maker for this machine) were very poorly engineered, IMHO. I got the LJ III from a household sale of stuff from a bankrupt small computer service shop along with the two laptops mentioned above plus three *carloads* of NOS mid-90's PeeCee motherboards, I/O boards, s/w, etc. mentioned below. I figure the guy simply could not figure out the Error 52 problem. He evidently did not contact HP about warranty repair for some reason and just chucked the boxed unit into storage for the past ten years. Worth noting, he decidedly proved to his family and the banks that he had NO comprehension of how to spend/save money. Hence, his bankruptcy in 1999. Thus my ability to vacuum up some neat almost retro stuff for cheap. You wouldn't believe the amount of NOS Tandy stuff for which I wasn't able to find funds: three brand new Tandy 100's plus carrying cases, two of the little PC2's with printers and a PC1 with printer, all with bunches of s/w & accessories went for only $200 for the lot. I scrounged up about $150 for all the rest of the stuff described here. Just need a toner cartridge for the LJ III as the photodrum has a seemingly permanent toner stain on its surface and horizontal groove along its length >from where the toner scraper had set stationary for 10+ years. Leaves a horiz. line and faint blotches on printed sheets. Will not cleanup by itself. Okay for draft printing but not for stuff one would want to archive such as DEC manual reprints, etc. (or my college homework :-). Anybody know if touching the photodrum with cleaner of some sort and soft cloth will destroy it?? The built-in scrapper will not clear the stuck-on toner. Still that darned groove though . . . Also, anybody have a JetDirect Ethernet card for the LaserJet III they could part with? Cannot yet determine the exact part # at this time via online searches. No mention in manual as this option may not have been developed at time of publication (1990). They became available later. Nevertheless, best deal I've made in quite awhile because when I resolve the toner cart problem, I'll have a kind of printer I've always wanted. Price was just fine for this unemployed fella :-) Some of that heap of On topic and Off topic NOS PeeCee boards and misc stuff include a Copy II PC board including manual and disk, a dozen or so Pentium I and several P-II (slot 1) mainboards, about 15 or so 486 mainboards, several PCI video and network cards, 10BaseT hubs and NICs, bunches of software manuals and disks (some just plain obsolete and almost useless, others good for retrocomputing :-), a complete P-II 233 MHz machine full of application software (working perfectly after clock battery replaced!), a complete working Pentium I 233 MHz machine with licensed W95 and 64 Mb RAM, complete working 486 66MHz machine w/64 Mb Ram and hot switchable, removable HDD module (only 80 Mb :-( capacity), bunches of common ISA boards, a LOT of MFM drive cables, a LOT of floppy drive cables, empty cases, etc. Did I mention a LOT of several types of cables? Someday I will cull out most of the boards and stuff out of that heap (both on topic and off topic) and make them available to new homes, but it will be awhile. Schoolwork calls. Note: "Copy II PC" stuff is off limits! :-) :-) OT DEPARTMENT (Close your eyes if you don't want to see it :-) 1.) Anybody have a Pentium III (three), 550 MHz, Slot 1 processor for sale? Cooling fan too? I've got a Linux system I've hammered together from that heap of parts I mention above for which I need this CPU. Only thing lacking for now. Used a nice Soyo SY-6BB mainboard (early version) found in that heap o' stuff (ca. 1998). 2.) Who is a reliable supplier of an AMD Athlon XP 2000+ CPU with mounted fan and warranty for a fair price? Tons of 'em available online, but who seems to be best as far as price/reputation/support, in that order? I do not frequently purchase the latest stuff and have no good feel for who's who. I prefer to live on the "Trailing Edge" of contemporary computing, so this Athlon stuff is still a little out of my scope (until one or two generations have passed ;). (Didn't Tim Shoppa name his company along those lines- Trailing Edge?) The Athlon CPU is for our son's new machine which Beverly and I have been quietly gathering parts over the past several months. He'll be 11 in a few weeks and due for a new machine to replace the Pentium 100 I whipped up for him five years ago. At least he should have something fairly contemporary other than just that infernal Sony PS-2. The machine I'm writing this upon is also sorta new from about 10 months ago - Athlon XP 1500+, 512 Mb RAM, GeForce 4 video, Jetway mainboard, windoze 98SE. Hope it lasts (technologically) until 2005 or 6, but that of course depends upon what M$ determines we "need". On the other hand, I plan to be M$ free before that provided office and productivity applications become pretty much seamless between M$ and Linux. But I still like using the older stuff . . . /OT DEPARTMENT Speaking of Tim Shoppa, where is he nowadays anyway? He was a major asset to DEC enthusiasts everywhere and to the old ClassicCmp list in general. Regards, Chris NNNN Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt(a)netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.antiquewireless.org/

20 years, 8 months

[FAQ publication?] was: RE: MicroVAX I update

by cfandt＠netsync.net

On 1/26/04 6:33:42 PM, General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only (cctech(a)classiccmp.org) wrote: > I could have sworn that about a month ago I posted the meaning of the > codes for a MV I and that it was waiting for a boot command... > > Joe Heck This brings up something I'd been thinking upon once in a while. I propose the following: 1.) For some of the more frequently discussed machines (not just DEC) there ought to be a FAQ generated by those who're expert in a particular machine or machines. In this case, expected MV I boot routine would be one of the things listed plus expected failure modes based upon configuration or hardware failures (or complete lack of an expected hardware item). Like Adrian/Witchy, most of us forget stuff after a long time away and this would help us with much of the troubleshooting (I forget stuff after *short* times myself, darn it). Actually, any machine, not just the frequently discussed machines should be included in the FAQ archive. There are folks who know lots about obscure machines and for the interest of preservation of our beloved machines, we need to have access to anything that could possibly come along. 2.) Perhaps Jay could host FAQs in some sort of indexed file system, in ASCII which is normally viewable by nearly anyone on most any platform. Text-based files shouldn't take up much room. 3.) Also, I propose that Jay script the cc servers to automatically broadcast a message reminding folks of the location of the FAQs, how to use them and perhaps some basic rules for posting stuff to the cc lists (aimed toward newbies for instance). The interval could be once a week, every 15 days, 30 days or whatever between. Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt(a)netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.antiquewireless.org/

20 years, 8 months

http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/2002-September/005891.html

by kabuki_pheonix＠yahoo.co.uk

this may be of use http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2781419109&category=4193 --------------------------------- BT Yahoo! Broadband - Free modem offer, sign up online today and save ?80

20 years, 8 months

Old MFM controller on a PCI bus machine

by e.huininga＠sozawe.groningen.nl

You could try a BIOS update to see if this works. Also you could try deactivating the onboard IDE controller since this one usually uses interrupts 14 and 15. Cheers, Eelco >>> Vintage Computer Festival <vcf(a)siconic.com> 01/26 7:43 >>> I haven't played with MFM hard drives and controllers in a LONG time (about 10 years now) so I have some questions. I'll start off easy. Should there be any reason an old 16-bit ISA MFM controller won't work properly in a Pentium-class PC with ISA and PCI slots? I imagine I would just have to configure the BIOS to reserve the proper interrupt (I believe it's 14, correct?) for the MFM controller. I did all this but the MFM controller wreaked havoc on the system. It killed the on-board floppy disk and IDE controllers (not physically killed but basically disabled them and the system couldn't boot). I'm trying to determine if there is a natural conflict before I venture forth with this configuration. This may be a problem related to the PC I'm trying to plug the card into because there are other oddities with the IDE controller that is preventing the system from booting with 4 hard drives installed (2 per IDE interface). It halts after it auto-recognizes the drives on the primary controller. Weird. Anyway, any insight would be appreciated. I'm going to do more experimentation in the meantime. I'll get another PC with ISA and PCI slots to work with, and will also find an old 386 to test the MFM controller on to make sure it is working fine. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ]

20 years, 8 months

Apple 'Star Trek'?

by brad＠heeltoe.com

>> Apparently the head of technology saw his pink slip flash before his eyes >> when he realized that a Mac OS on PC hardware would cause the elimination >> of Mac hardware and the project was scuttled internally... I remember attending a mac developer's conference when that happened. Kin Seto (an evangelist) told me about it. They waffled back and forth about whether to show it to anyone. At one point we were told they would. Then later, not. Does anyone know who the "head of technology" on that project was? Or anyone who worked on it? (this may be the wrong list :-) -brad

20 years, 8 months

Zenith Z150 complete system available

by kla＠helios.augustana.edu

After a long hiatus from ClassicCmp (back before the split to two lists), I'm back for awhile. And I think I'm ready to part with a system I've had since the mid-80s, assuming there is someone interested. I have a complete, original-owner Zenith Z150 (PC compatible) system. Alas, the system is not running (the last time I tried, it was stopping on the CPU POST test). I bought this when I was in graduate school and used it to both write the initial FORTRAN code for my computer model, and to write my doctoral dissertation. This system includes the original keyboard and the single-color (green) CGA monitor. Purchased with two 5-1/4-inch floppy drives and a single 320 Kbyte memory card. After-market mods included adding a 20-Mbyte MFM-RLL hard drive (below the diskette drives, so both are still there), the NEC V20 (or was that V30) CPU replacement, and the MR-150 (?) memory mod that let you replace the five banks of 64K chips with 256K chips and get full memory (640Kbyte, plus a bank below the video memory) and a 512Kbyte ram disk (bank-switched into place). Software (with diskettes and docs), much of it rebadged for Zenith, but also some MS-direct upgrades, includes DOS (various versions), diagnostics, MS FORTRAN (couple of versions), MS Word (DOS versions 1.x up to 5.x), etc. I've hung onto this for both sentimental reasons and because I didn't what a scrapper (here or in China) get it. I probably even have all the original paperwork if I look in the right box. At this point I'd rather not part-out the system, and would rather find an interested collector (preferably in the Midwest or local as I'd rather not ship, unless the price is right - I'm in Dubuque, Iowa). I recall a member of this list several years ago saying he had a bunch of replacement boards for the Z150, and so it could be made to be working again. I'm not crazy...I just would rather not see the waste (and my wife is tired of me storing and moving this system for all the years that I have). And I'd rather focus my attention on other types/flavors of computers right now. Write me if you are interested (with offers and trades). Now back to your regular programming on DEC PDP-8's, 11's, etc., which I need to get caught up on. Cheers/73, Kevin Anderson * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Kevin L. Anderson Ph.D., Geographer/GIS Analyst, Dubuque Iowa kla (at ) helios (dot) augustana (dot) edu * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

20 years, 8 months

[FAQ publication?] was: RE: MicroVAX I update

by msokolov＠ivan.Harhan.ORG

Witchy <witchy(a)binarydinosaurs.co.uk> wrote: > I'd forgotten for example that > early MicroVAX consoles didn't include things like a useful SHOW command. > With the MV I you don't even have the good ol' TEST 50 (or was it 75?) to > show the config. My hunch is that MV I has a microcode console like 11/750 and 8200, so it's going to be VERY terse and bare-bones. MV II (KA630) has a 64 KB ROM with the console coded in VAX instructions, but you still have single-character commands and fairly minimal subset functionality. T 50 (T, not TEST) is on the VS2000. I know your feeling, I've also been too used to my KA655s for too long. My current day job is implementing a ROM monitor for custom PowerPC products. Being the VAX lover that I am, I designed it to look like a VAX console. I implemented the >>> prompt and the usual commands, though changed a bit since the PowerPC CPU is most definitely not a VAX (unfortunately). It's open source in my CVS, I will post a pointer when the code is a bit cleaner so I'm not embarrassed to show it to the world. MS (you've guessed it right... the example I modeled it after is KA655)

20 years, 8 months

FA: DEC H-214 Core memory

by rigdonj＠cfl.rr.com

Core memory and a load of HP calculator parts including some really unusual stuff. <http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&userid=rigdonj> Joe

20 years, 8 months

VAX/VMS 9trk tape success

by jpl15＠panix.com

Thanks to many, in particular Witchy (cheers, mate! absolutely *brill*) for the info on sysgenning SCSI stuff into VMS. $mou MKB0: _label: test $copy welcome.txt mkb0: [spin/stop - spin/stop - spinspin stop] $dir MKB0: [spin/stop etc etc] Directory MKB0:[] Welcome.txt;1 Total of 1 files $type MKB0:welcome.txt [glorious spinning/stopping] Welcome to OpenVMS VAX V7.2 $ Now I can read/write 9trk tape to laptop and/or VAXstation. woo-freakin-hoo!! Next: Ethernet.... Cheers John

20 years, 8 months

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test-drb January 2004