test-drb October 2003

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

252 participants
500 discussions

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Oct 5, 18:24, Tony Duell wrote: > While looking for Econet bits, I found the above-mentioned unit (Morely > Electronics Teletext Adapter). Morley, not Morely :-) > It's clearly a BBC periperal. On the back is Belling-Lee coaxial socket > (standard TV aerial connector), and a piece of 6 way ribbon cable. This > splits, 4 wires go to a 20 pin 2-row IDC header socket (presumably BBC > User Port, the connections would then be +5V, Ground, and 2 lines for I2C > SCL and SDA). The other 2 wires go to a plug to fit the BBC's power > outlet socket, to get 12V. > Does anyone know anything about this unit, and more importantly, anyone > know where I can get the software to use it (it's certainly not > compatable with the Acorn Teletext unit). You need the Advanced Teletext Software ROM, which I've got in my archive. There's also an additional extension ROM. It does neat things like autotuning, and is reputedly rather superior to the Acorn Teletext Adaptor, though not having ever owned a Morley one, I wouldn't really know. Ther'es also some inofrmation on it on The BBC Lives! website. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

20 years, 9 months

Acorn Econet

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Oct 5, 18:20, Tony Duell wrote: > Does anyone have any experience with Acorn Econet (Acorn's low-cost, > fairly low-speed network)? I used to install Econet systems, and upgrade and repair Beebs with Econet. I must have installed or re-installed a few hundred Econet interfaces. A certain large dealer once tried to save money by farming out BBC Model Bs for Econet upgrade jobs to his local ITeC (a sort of training centre of out-of-work youngsters). An upgrade includes lots of 10K, 100K, and 1M resistors, a handful of capacitors, and a bunch of ICs, and on early BBCs most of the passive components get fitted vertically in very tight spaces; not surprisingly, the majority of those upgrades didn't work. I got to be very good at faultfinding on those things before the dealer finally conceded that it would be considerably cheaper to just get me to fit the upgrades in the first place :-) > Digging in my junk box (well, more like junk room :-)), I've found a > couple of Econet clock boxes (one Acorn, one SJ, these supply the data > clock for the network), a terminator, various connector boxes, etc. > Cabling shouldn't be a real problem either, I assume the right cable is 2 > twisted pairs with an overall screen. Ideally, twisted quad stranded with an overall screen and stranded drain wire, but Cat 3 or better is fine so long as you have the fifth (ground) wire and a half-decent screen. The original Econet in Acorn's Market Hill office in Cambridge ran on telephone cable. You do need the ground connection, though -- two pairs isn't enough on their own. > I believe I need a fileserver (== a machine set up as such). Assume I > have Beebs (with Econet interfaces), 6502 and Z80 second processors, A310 > (but no backplane, therefore no expansion), A3000 (no expansion either), > A3010 (in bits, but probably repairable), a couple of Systems (one with > an Exonet interface), and not a lot else. I think I could find the Acorn > SASI/SCSI host interface for the Beeb if pushed, and I have a Beeb with > the Torch SCSI card and SCSIFS. Oh, and an Acorn Econet bridge, but > that's fairly useless at the moment... There are six Acorn file servers, and some from SJ Research. I don't know much about the SJ ones (except that early ones had some compatibility problems) but the Acorn ones (in date order) are: The original Econet Fileserver -- runs on a System 5, uses 2 x 80-track DS SD floppies, formatted in a unique way. I've not got the software for that, and I've never used it. Level 1 Fileserver -- provides LOAD, SAVE, etc for files, and some utilities such as sending messages, viewing screens, etc, but not much more in the way of file services. Runs on an ordinary Model B with disk^Wdisc interface and normally uses two double-sided 80-track drives (but will work with any drive that supports DFS). Limited to whatever the standard DFS floppies hold (ie subject to the normal DFS file limits). Level 2 Filserver -- runs on a Beeb with a 6502 Second Processor, uses one or two DSSD 80-track drives, same disc format as the System 5 server. Not subject to the DFS number-of-files limits, supports random-access files, etc. Level 3 Fileserver -- runs on a Beeb with Beeb with a 6502 Second Processor, ADFS, and a 10MB or 30MB winchester. The winchester is partitioned, and the Econet Fileserver partitiion has a unique filestructure. Needs a dongle, which is also a TOD clock. Most dongles are now dead (and weren't Y2K compliant) but there's a patch to bypas that. It also came with a modified version of CommunITeL viewdata bulleting board software. Stacking Filestore -- a box that looks like the disc unit from a Master Compact (or a Communicator), with a brown smoked Perspex front flap covering twin 3.5" floppies, basically a revamped Level 3 but able to use floppies or a winchester. The flap is also a control switch; open it to shut down the server, close it to restart. It also includes printer server software. The matching winchester is just a small SCSI drive (yes, real SCSI, not SASI) in a matching box, normally a 3.5" 20MB Rodime drive; you can have up to six IIRC. Level 4 Fileserver -- software application that runs on an Archimedes under RISC OS 2 or later. It really wants an A440 or better, but should just about run on an A310. Uses whatever filing systems/media are available to RISC OS, and can act as an Econet/Ethernet bridge. > Any ideas as to what I should use, and where to get the necessary > software. Has anyone ever hacked a PC to work as an Econet fileserver? > The hardware wouldn't be too bad, I think. Level 1, 2 and 3 fileserver software isn't hard to come by if you know someone who has it (hint: you do :-)) The discs are copyable. Level 3 is only useful if you have a suitable winchester amd copro on a Beeb, and you'll need the installer discs (I forget whether it's one or two) *and* the anti-dongle patch (unless you want to reverse engineer one of my resin-encapsulated dongles -- but be warned, I've been told by Those Who Know Such Things that the necessary chips haven't been available for many years). You might be able to download Level 4 from the net somewhere. I think I have a copy -- but not a very good one. It went through a few iterations! > Has anyone ever hacked a PC to work as an Econet fileserver? > The hardware wouldn't be too bad, I think. Nope. The Ecolink ISA card only works under MS-DOS 3.21 (or some similar version) and an 8086 machine hasn't the oomph to make much of an Econet system. It even needs a (6502 -- what else?) processor on the Ecolink card to handle basic network operations. Ecolink cards are genuinely rare -- I have one, Jules R has one, and I know of only a couple of others. > Anything else I should be aware of? By convention, an Econet address is two octets, the upper octet is network number ("0" means "the local net"), the lower is the station number. On Beebs, Atoms, Systems, you set the station number with molex links; on later machines you set it in the CMOS. On Master Series machines, you need a special utility because it's in a protected memory area. Address 255 is the broadcast address; 0 is invalid (sound familiar?). By convention, the fileserver is station 254, and the printer server is 235. In some versions of the NFS or ANFS software, stations above 128 (? memory check) are privileged and can force certain operations on unpriv'd stations. Normal stations can *PROTECT themselves from various ops except from priv'd stations (operations include read/write memory blocks, jump to an execution address, force a file load/save etc -- remember this was designed for classroom use). There are Econet interfaces for Systems, Atoms, Beebs (A, B, B+), Master Series (including Compact), ABCs/Scientifics (built in as you've discovered), Electrons (from HCCS, not Acorn, though), and all of the Archimedes/RISC PC range. The A/B/B+ interfaces are a bag of components. The System one is a Eurocard, the Atom one is a plug-on module (as is the Electron one). The later Master Series and RISC machines ones are a small module. There are two versions of the module: originally Acorn designed it with full collision-detect circuitry, then someone decided it would work fine without, at least on an Arc where the faster processor could do some extra work. Sadly, that wasn't borne out in real life, so after a while they reverted to the original design with CD. Issue 2 and 3 Beebs have a lot of the components mounted vertically to save space; they also have provision for clock and/or terminators on the BBC board. This is not a good idea; the original terminator design was an active device, and doesn't work if there's no power (and neither does the clock, obviously!). Issue 2/3 also need a few track cut/rewires. Issue 4/7 have the components laid out horizontally (more sensible) and no provision for clock or terminator on board. The speed of the net depends on the length, the longer the slower. Max speed is obtained with a short network and an asymmetric mark-space ratio on the clock. Early Acorn clock boxes use a square wave; later ones, and SJ ones, have variable mark/space. Early terminator boxes (small light+dark grey Veroboxes) match the clock boxes and provide active termination. Later terminators, and SJ terminators, are passive: DIN plugs with a few resistors, and inferior. Arcs and later RISC-based machines can, not surprisingly, handle faster networks (up to about 500kHz clock) than Atoms/Systems/Beebs (250kHz clock). Torchnet runs on the same hardware as Econet, but uses its own nearly-compatible protocols. The Acorn Printer Server is a 2732 sideways ROM; it doesn't do queueing or anything fancy (ie it can only handle one job at a time) but works with most printers, from dot-matrix to laserjet. The XOB advanced version handles queueing, as does a later one from Acorn for RISC OS. If the server isn't too busy, FS and PS can be on the same machine. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

20 years, 9 months

Looking for Overland OD3201 Tape unit

by ken＠fraserhouse.com

Trying to find an Overland Data, Inc. OD3201 (or similar) 9-track reel-to-reel unit. It is a reasonably thin, grey unit that stands vertically and has a plexiglas window built in the door. Please reply directly to ken(a)fraserhouse.com including condition and price. Thanks, Ken Campbell

20 years, 9 months

VCF Want: Pertec formatters for Kennedy 9100

by aek＠spies.com

I have used the wrong terminology, forgive me List! I meant the card that goes in a Kennedy drive that attaches to the drive electronics and has headers for the cables that go *to* the formatter card -- What you are looking for is the "Multiple Transport Adapter, Type 4147" which converts the dual 22 pin connectors to the read/write/control connector configuration.

20 years, 9 months

DEC Pro 380 Info Request

by peter.mccollum＠hp.com

On an LK201 keyboard, "Resume" is in the top row (like an "F" key on a PC kybd), 7th from the left. Pete -----Original Message----- From: Charles H. Dickman [mailto:chd_1@nktelco.net] Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2003 10:43 AM To: info-pdp11; cctech(a)classiccmp.org Subject: DEC Pro 380 Info Request I now have a DEC Professional 380 that was originally a VAX Console. Inspecting it, I find a floppy interface, a Winchester interface, and an RTI interface (used for the VAX I think). The disk is an RD52 with a big piece of red tape that says TOP SECRET. I have lots of questions.... After looking for pinouts, I have attached a NEC Multisync 3D monitor and an LK201 keyboard to the VIDEO 1 port. During the self test I get an error saying a key is stuck on the keyboard. This may indeed be true, I have not tested the keyboard before. It also says hit <RESUME> to continue. The keyboard has no <RESUME> key. I suspect there were various markings for the keycaps. Any suggestion on which key might be <RESUME>? What are the monochrome monitor specifications (horizontal frequency, vertical frequency, etc)? It looks like the NEC 3D can barely get the correct sync. This monitor is a bit old and when it warms up it loses sync. Not sure if this is a problem with the monitor, or I am just stretching its specs too much. A NEC XV17 I tried would not even begin to sync. I read that the printer port is also a console for the Pro. After finding the pinouts, I connected a terminal to the port and a break dropped me into ODT. Is there microPDP-11/83 style firmware in there somewhere that I can use on the PR 1 port or do I have to use the keyboard and video? Using ODT, I can see that there are 512kB of memory. The RTI seems interesting, but I have not seen any pinouts for the 62 pin connector. From what I can find there are two serial ports, a 24 line bi-directional I/O port and an IEEE-488 port. Pretty cool, but useless without a pinout... -chuck ---------- To unsubscribe (or subscribe) from (to) this list, send a message to info-pdp11-request(a)village.org, with the first line of the message body being "unsubscribe" or "subscribe", respectively (without the quotes).

20 years, 9 months

WHO? (was: RE: Help! need 400k/800k Mac os 6 or 7 diskettes!)

by cb＠mythtech.net

>I'll grab all that stuff tonight, and go through it in the morning >to see what all is there.. probably all their software since, oh, >1992 or so, when they started with Mac's. It will probably all be on 1.4 disks and of no use to Ron. At least not until he gets a Mac with a SuperDrive that can read the larger disks. -chris <http://www.mythtech.net>

20 years, 9 months

FA: Hyperion compuer, SUN cards, DEC cards

by rigdonj＠cfl.rr.com

Just finished listing a Hyperion computer and some SUN interface cards (and a Judson magneto!) on E-bay. I will be adding a LOT of DEC cards soon. <http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&userid=rigdonj> Joe

20 years, 9 months

Help! need 400k/800k Mac os 6 or 7 diskettes!

by cb＠mythtech.net

>The software support went away, but also they stopped making drives >(and controller chips) that can handle the 400K and 800K formats. >Since they used variable motor speed on the 400K, 800K, and Superdrive >(FDHD), they could keep a roughly constant flux density on the track. >But when you try to read or write that on a fixed-speed drive, such >as a 1440K drive in a PC, or any recent Mac floppy drive, the frequency >required to match the flux density of 400K/800K disk format is outside >the range that the drive electronics can reliably handle. Reading can >sometimes be done, but writing is very problematic. That probably explains why my 6500 and 9600 have problems with 800K disks. -chris <http://www.mythtech.net>

20 years, 9 months

Looking for Overland OD3201 Tape unit

by ken＠fraserhouse.com

Trying to find an Overland Data, Inc. OD3201 9-track reel-to-reel unit. It is a reasonably thin, grey unit that stands vertically and has a plexiglas window built in the door. Please reply directly to ken(a)fraserhouse.com including condition and price. Thanks, Ken Campbell

20 years, 9 months

black paper tape = mylar?

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Oct 6, 21:12, Ian Primus wrote: > On Monday, October 6, 2003, at 03:28 PM, Pete Turnbull wrote: > > On Oct 6, 8:12, Lyle Bickley wrote: > >> I'd contact the seller and ask them if the tapes are oiled (you can > > smell the > >> oil) - if so, they are not mylar. > > You can often *feel* the oil. By a curious coincidence, I was talking > > to a guy, this morning, who still sells paper tape and used to be > > involved in its manufacture. He told me how it was oiled in bulk, and > > how they used to do it in small batches for special jobs. > That sounds interesting, how is it oiled? I had thought about that > before, and I couldn't imagine just dunking a roll of paper in oil, or > spraying it with oil or something. How oily is paper tape anyway? Commercially, the oil is sort of printed onto the paper. The paper is passed over an oily roller before being wound onto the final reel. The film of oil on the roller is quite thin, and the quantity is controlled by a system of additional rollers between an oil reservoir and the applicator roller; just like the system used for ink on an offset litho machine. That's what I was thinking about replicating, to oil my own tape, because it's much easier to get unoiled tape here. For very small batches, I was told that they sometimes just dunked the 1" wide reels of tape in an oil bath. If it's wound properly (it should be moderately tight, not slack) the reel will soak up oil over a period of a few days, without excess oil remaining between the layers. The trick, I was told, is to know how long to leave it so that the oil penetrates from the edges of the strip right to the centre. I said you can often feel the oil -- I didn't mean there's a film left on the surface. It typically has a slight sheen, and appears slightly translucent. If you slide a strip of oiled tape through your fingers it should feel smooth, but not leave you with oil on your fingers. Think about the amount of oil you'd want to lubricate the mechanism to punch a few yards of tape: not much. To answer Joe's question, the oil is a light machine oil. I'd guess it's about ISO 30, which is about SAE 5, or less. > I don't have any oiled tape, although I need to get some for my ASR33. I > have been using strips of computer paper to test, but I am worried that > the unoiled paper might wear down the punch. I thought about having a > stack of junk fanfold greenbar cut into 1" strips on the big machine in > at work, but since it wouldn't be oiled, I don't know if it would > damage anything. Do you really _need_ oiled tape, or can you get by > without it? It'll work, as you've obviously discovered, but from all acounts will make the punches wear faster. Greenbar is also much thinner than proper tape. Interestingly, I was told (this guy used to work in a place where 20+ people produced tape, full-time) that most European equipment specified unoiled tape, and generally only American-made equipment needed oiled tape. I'm not sure if that's because American equipment needed the extra lubrication, or if it's something to do with dust, maybe oily dust is considered too abrasive to be allowed to work its way into small mechanisms, or maybe Europeans just designed better lubrication systems ;-) Talking of dust (well, nearly), has anyone (preferably in the UK) got a spare chad box for an ASR33? -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

20 years, 9 months

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test-drb October 2003