January 2002 - test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

Crescent wrenches (was: Nomenclature (was: NEXT Color Printer find

by mhstein＠usa.net

Whoa, can't let that one by: we know what a snowmobile is up here (c'mon, fellow Canucks, back me up on this one!); mind you, if you asked ME what a snowmobile is, I would indeed look at ya kind of funny (oops, funnily, for the language police), since apparently YOU don't know what it is or you wouldn't be asking... But a snow sled??? Who calls it that? Sounds like the SkiDoo trailer. Anyway, one of us invented the thing, so we can call it what we like! So there! :) -----------------Original Message------------------ From: Roger Merchberger <zmerch(a)30below.com> [snippage] [more snippage (pronounced snippahdge up here, not snippedge :)] And as it's winter, and we *finally* have snow here, talk to some Western Ontario Canadians and ask them what a "snowmobile" or "snow sled" is - they'll most likely look at you funny, at least for a few seconds until it sinks in. They go "skidooing" in the wintertime.

23 years, 6 months

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FreeVMS

by msell＠ontimesupport.com

Replies throughout..... >I have not-too-much experince with VMS, so bear with me, but wouldn't it >be possible to do one of the following options: > >1) Stick an 'emulation' user-mode shell on top of some free *nix > >2) Take a stock free *nix kernel, and modify it to work more like VMS. That was the idea. I thought of taking FreeBSD, and add device drivers for peripherals and filesystems, as well as implementing the "shell". I do have various VAXen to test this on. >Of course, the problem is deciding what ONE kernel to use (prolly BSD or >Linux 2.??), and how to trim down the kernel to a small set of drivers for >testing it. I was thinking about using FreeBSD, simply for the availability of many platform ports, including VAX. - Matt Matthew Sell Programmer On Time Support, Inc. www.ontimesupport.com (281) 296-6066 Join the Metrology Software discussion group METLIST! http://www.ontimesupport.com/cgi-bin/mojo/mojo.cgi "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er...

23 years, 6 months

4
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Heath/Zenith stuff

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

------Original Message------ From: Ethan Dicks <ethan_dicks(a)yahoo.com> --- Bill Gunshannon <bill(a)cs.scranton.edu> wrote: > Your thinking of the Heath H11 which was in fact an LSI-11/02. But it had It shipped as an LSI-11/03 CPU and heath made memory and IO. My H-11 came with a KDF-11 CPU (11/23), but I don't know if it was shipped that way or if my boss (who bought it new) upgraded it himself. Yep, never shipped with 11/23 (KDF-11A). It was discontinued by then if anything. I have a couple of the Heath serial cards (one unsoldered!), the H-27 disk controller, the 8" floppies and a pile of misc DEC cards (memory, BDV-11 boot card, etc). The heath seriial card was a fairly flexible card copared to the usual DEC DL-11. to debug the H-27 (he never used it). Except for the monsterous holes he blew in the side to mount additional fans, and the holes in the front he added for external console baud rate switches, it resembles its original form once again. The fans and switches were a common mod and handy too. Allison __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

23 years, 6 months

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Drummers and SGI computers

by macrecycle＠earthlink.net

Wait just a cotton-pickin' minute there! What's all this biz about dissin' drummers? I'd have you know, like Buddy Rich said, "I am the band, mister." I figure 40 years of being a Slingerland drummer (www.slingerland.com) and Paiste cymbal player (www.paiste.com) driving swing and jazz (and an occasional rock group, when I'm not critical about the music *8^) earn me that right. And, for your information, drummers don't lose time; they reinterpret the chart, for crying out loud. Sheesh! Now, let's get back to computers. Still looking for SGI Indy at a good price; anybody got any ideas? R. P. Bell My friends call me "RB" ================= Mac Recycle Project Recycled Macintosh Computers and Services for Educational or Non-Profit Enterprises Email macrecycle(a)earthlink.net Internet URL www.networkwise.net (currently under development)

23 years, 6 months

2
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Language and English

by mythtech＠Mac.com

>Secondly, anyone with an IQ at or about 75 can >get through the present education system with straight A's if he shows up for >class and does the assigned work. ROFL... sad but true. >What you're saying to the readers of the list is, "You should read what I >have >to say, though I'm not willing to make sure it's clearly or properly >presented." I find it hard to imagine that you could offer content that >would >justify the effort, Chris. Ok... Richard, Dick, whatever you like to call yourself. You sit here claiming to be this great writer and reader... yet it seems you have NO F-ING memory. If you care to go back over the various posts on this thread, you will see that I am NOT the person that was using poor writing skills. Rather, all I said was, to the language die hards, don't forget the possibility that what you got *might* have been the best the person was capable of. I never said the one this was all about (I won't mention names... I'll leave that up to an exercise to your god like reading skills), was writing to the best of HIS ability (he might be, but he seems to have indicated that he writes the way he does by choice... fine by me). But somewhere, you seemed to have translated this into ME be the offender of writing poor emails... despite the fact, that I have tried to point out to you numerous times, that this thread HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH ME. (did you get that, or should I print it in another format, one your perfect writing skills would use, so maybe your reading skills can pick it up as well) So... maybe your reading comprehension is bad, maybe you suffer from serious memory deficiencies... I have no idea... but until you can figure out that we are talking CONCEPTUAL here, and NOT ACTUAL... I will cease to discuss the matter with you. Have a nice day :-) -chris <http://www.mythtech.net>

23 years, 6 months

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DEC bus driver/receiver chips (really VT78 docs)

by Antonio.Carlini＠riverstonenet.com

> pete(a)dunnington.u-net.com wrote: > > I have a VT78. Is that the one you're thinking of? No. That's three now :-) I was thinking of the one the CCS have: http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/CCS/ Antonio

23 years, 6 months

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Ultrix 4.4 and VaxStation 3100

by DAW＠yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu

! -----Original Message----- ! From: Clint Wolff (VAX collector) [mailto:vaxman@earthlink.net] ! ! ! The last I heard, NetBSD didn't support any sort of graphics console. ! Not even as a text only console... ! ! Clint ! ! On Wed, 2 Jan 2002, David Woyciesjes wrote: ! ! > ! From: Jochen Kunz [mailto:jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de] ! > ! ! > ! ! > ! > (assuming X11 worked on ! > ! > the Vaxstation 3100 under Ultrix -- I assume it would.) ! > ! AFAIK the SPX graphics was not supported, only the mono and GPX ! > ! framebuffers. ! > ! > So there is some chance of NetBSD/Xwindows running on my ! > b&w 3100m38? ! > ! > --- David A Woyciesjes So, the monitor and keyboard hooked directly to the back of the VAXStation 3100 M38 is not a text only console? What kind of console is it then? --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818

23 years, 6 months

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HP2000 available for login yet?

by steven_j_robertson＠hotmail.com

While we're on the HP 2000 subject: Drug home two more HP1000s (first cousin to the 2000) last wekend. Both systems were mounted in racks and seemed to be fairly complete. The first system was a HP3095 test system. The 3095 series are used in conjunction with a bed-of-nails for the automated testing of boards and assemblys. The system included a HP7914 HD/TAPE combo, 768K of RAM, multiple HPIB interfaces, 8 port TTY card, I/O expansion chassis, misc other I/O cards (unknown). I was hoping that the RTE system was still installed on the disk but, looks like it won't be recoverable. The disk sounded like a coffee grinder when I applied power... Bummer :-( For some reason, the CPU was missing the ROM. I managed to steal the ROM >from another box and now the CPU runs OK. The second system was a vibration analyzer. It included a basic computer, D/A and A/D interfaces, a 8" floppy drive, X/Y display, and system controller. There were no disks with this drive either which leaves me without an OS. If anyone knows where to find DOCs for a "HP5478C system interface" or "HP5477C system controller", I'd appreciate the info. From what I can tell, the system interface is a multiple channel DAC and the controller provides some external switching capability. I'd really like to know more about these. That box has a bad power supply. There's a red indicator on the front of the PS that just stays lit when power is applied. I think this is a fault indicator. There are no voltages on the backplane of that box. I stole the ROM from this box to get the other one going. I know where there is a 1000 crate that's mostly stripped. The panel, and all the cards have been removed but, the PS may be intact. If so, I should be able to liberate the PS. >From what I understand, the ROMS on the 1000 are not easy to dup. They have ID labels over the markings so, I can't even tell what kind of devices they are. Has anyone had experience dupping the ROMs from a 1000? I have tried to download the HP BASIC tapes from Jeff's site but cannot get them to work. The format doesn't look quite right and they fail the checksum test. Has anyone had any luck downloading those tapes and installing on a 1000? So... At this point, I have two working HP1000s, lots of I/O cards, a spare create for parts, and a bunch of other goodies. BTW: I know where there are some more systems. Probably go back this week and get more. See ya, SteveRob >From: "Mike Gortych" <mgortych(a)ntplx.com> >Reply-To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org >To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> >Subject: HP2000 available for login yet? >Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 19:55:34 -0500 > >Saw some posts back in August that Jay got his 2000 up and running, just >wondering if it was available to for a guest to login and reminisce. > >Thanks! >Mike _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com

23 years, 6 months

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Fwd: those who asked. golemancd pc collection

by Golemancd＠aol.com

23 years, 6 months

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Language and English

by mythtech＠Mac.com

>Chris, nobody would beat you up for trying to improve himself. Having a few >weaknesses is one thing. Defending them is another. Blaming someone else >for you having them is worse yet. I'm not trying to defend lazy writing skills. I'm not directly trying to blame others either (although, I think a chunk of initial poor writing skills of any kind can be pinned back to improper or poor education. You can't fault the student, if the teachers failed to teach the right thing). >I'll repeat: Make it easy for them to see what you mean in what you write by >taking a little extra care. It's important. Learn to do it well. I agree 100%... but do you mean to say that EVERYONE that uses email has an IQ over 120, and can be expected to master writing skills? Granted, chances are if you are on THIS list, you might be above average, but I am talking more in general (as I am sure some of the correction offenders do this in more places than here) >It's never too late to improve, but YOU have to do it, else it won't happen. No, it isn't too late, but there comes a time when improvement will stop, because a person can do no better. Or, improvement will stop, because the person logically chooses to attempt to do no better, because they have achieved a level that is "good enough", and their time can be better spent on other things. (ie: read Strunk and White, or better your job skills) I am not trying to defend myself, or say that any of this is about me. I want to make that clear... other than poor spelling, I am unaware of any serious language infractions I have ever committed on this list... and when writing anything other than email, I personally rely heavily on spell and grammar checkers... specifically to avoid having my writing make me seem like an ass... I want the honor of making me an ass to be totally on WHAT I write, not HOW I write. I just want some of the hard core language nazi's to realize that sometimes, they should just let it go. If you can't understand what was written, delete it, ignore it, whatever. Friendly constructive criticism is fine... but do it in jest, don't be a dick about it (this isn't saying YOU are a dick about it, no pun intended Richard, just in general, PEOPLE should not make federal crimes out of it... well, at least not until it has spun so badly off topic that it has become interesting and fun in it own right, like this thread). So if you can't understand it because it is so poorly written, you might be better off just ignoring it or deleting it. And if you are the person that wrote that way, and no one responds, maybe you should consider following more traditional writing styles, and check your grammar and spelling. And for those that can't do that (English, or the language of the group, is not their first language, and their skills in general are poor), they should mention that up front. I just don't think highly of people that quote an email specifically to point out writing errors in it. It has never convinced me of anything except that the quote corrector is an arrogant self righteous a-hole. However, if they were to be friendly about it, and do the correction in a tongue in cheek manner, then the original author would get the idea they should be more careful (and probably learn a few things), and the corrector would come off as being more friendly. -chris <http://www.mythtech.net>

23 years, 6 months

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Identify this hard drive?

by vcf＠vintage.org

These pictures suck but can anyone possibly identify this hard drive? http://www.siconic.com/crap/bdisk2_f.jpg http://www.siconic.com/crap/bdisk2_s.jpg Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *

23 years, 6 months

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Sequent Symmetry S2000-450

by spedraja＠ono.com

Hello everybody. It's possible I could obtain one Sequent Symmetry S2000-450 in a relatively short place. A similar system can be viewed in this eBay address: http://cgi.ebay.de/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1311505028&ed=1009557… The system comes complete, with software, hardware and documentation. It need three pallets to be transported. There is another opportunity to get one Sequent Symmetry S5000 that uses 4 Pentium processors and 1 Gb of memory, but this is in private negotiation. Do Somebody has information about these systems ? They appears to use Four processors 486, a Numa architecture to share memory, and one version of Unix named Dynix. Is there some porting of the Gnu utilities to it ? Thanks and Greetings. Sergio

23 years, 6 months

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FreeVMS

by pjschilling＠gcstech.net

My, that means my Vax 6000 isn't? Phil Merle K. Peirce wrote: > If it doesn't have wheels, it isn't really a computer. oh good!!! my celeron linux server *has* wheels :^)

23 years, 6 months

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Toshiba T3200SX Question

by CLeyson＠aol.com

On Sat, 5 Jan 2002 tothwolf(a)concentric.net wrote: >> Standard twisted pair ribbon cable terminated with a 26 way 0.1in >> pitch IDC transition connector which is soldered to the board. I will >> probably cut the cable and remove the connector (one pin at a time) >> and replace with a standard IDC plug and socket. >Why not just desolder the connector? Braid works well for some of those >plated through boards, just watch the heat or it can lift the pads. I managed to dismantle the plasma display and all of the cables can be disconnected at the display end. It would have been a lot easier to fit PSU and mother board connectors as well. Just have to clean up the mother board now. Chris

23 years, 6 months

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PS/2 Model 70

by dittman＠dittman.net

I found a couple of 2MB PS/2 SIMMs that I had stashed away and put them in my PS/2 Model 70, so I now have 8MB of RAM. I haven't cracked the password on the Xenix386 installation, but thought from the discussion that OS/2 would be a better operating system to play with anyway. I have OS/2 2.1. Would that be a good choice? If so, is there a way to make floppies from the installation CD? I haven't messed with OS/2 for a long time. -- Eric Dittman dittman(a)dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/

23 years, 6 months

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NEXT Color Printer find

by DAW＠yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu

! From: Tothwolf [mailto:tothwolf@concentric.net] ! ! ! On Sun, 30 Dec 2001, Robert Schaefer wrote: ! ! > I would imagine it was to talk to the printer. IIRC early Macs used ! > SCSI printers, too. Pretty neat. I wonder how hard a SCSI <-> ! > parallel interface would be to build. ! ! I seem to remember seeing a few companies offer these kinds ! of bridges, ! but I doubt they would work for anything other then a printer. I have here on my desk, an UNused Hewlett Packard 88395 SCSI/Parallel Interface. With it's power supply. :-) Need any more info? Like what's inside? ! I have a SCSI <-> ethernet bridge around here somewhere. I ! think it was ! made for older Macs that lacked nubus or another means of ! expansion. It ! reports itself as a disk device, but I haven't done much with it yet. That's a neat thing. Do you remember who the manufacturer is? --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818

23 years, 6 months

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PET music (Was: hmm, don't remember what the thread was originally :)

by mhstein＠usa.net

Not sure what you're looking for here, hardware or software? Seems to me any S/W not using CB2 would require _some_ kind of special hardware, however trivial. At least 2 come to mind, the Petunia, and the MTU 4 voice/16 harmonics systems for both PETs and KIM/SYM/AIMs; is one of these what you're thinking of? The cheap & dirty method was just a resistor ladder across the parallel interface as a D/A converter; might still have one of these & some S/W, but don't hold your breath, haven't looked at the CBM pile in ages. Hmmm... just ran across an old ad for an accounting package for a KIM/SYM; wouldn't you have enjoyed being the data entry operator for that? Think I'd prefer even a Windows package... -------------Original Message---------------- From: Ethan Dicks <erd_6502(a)yahoo.com> <snip> ObClassic: Does anyone have any software for making music on the PET with *other* than CB2 sound? I had a buddy with a clip-on user port music card - it was an 8-bit D-to-A like a Disney Sound Source. The PET shoved bytes out the user port and they appoximated music. I can't remember what it was called.

23 years, 6 months

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Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainful employment

by acme_ent＠bellsouth.net

> From: Gene Buckle <geneb(a)deltasoft.com> > How about: "Stupid people suck."? > > > Everyone in this world may not have had the level of > > opportunity ( in education, employment, etc. ) that > > many of you have had. Before coming down on him so hard, > > I would at least be willing to consider "his story"? > > > Level of "opportunity" my butt. He got whatever opportunity he made for > himself. Anything else is entitlement-minded whining. He's a lazy > communicator and is getting slapped around for it. Deal. Gene -- you are right on. Slobs choose to be slobs all on their own, and then they have to deal with being slobs. It's a tough life ;>) Glen 0/0

23 years, 6 months

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7/01/97 ClassicCmp FAQ - Part 3

by marvin＠rain.org

============================================================================= ClassicCmp - The Classic Computers Discussion List Part 3 in the ClassicCmp FAQ Trilogy Technical FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) v1.6.1 Last Update: 7/01/97 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- This FAQ is written with the primary purpose of making readily available answers to the more common questions appearing on ClassicCmp. It is Maintained by Bill Whitson <bill(a)booster.u.washington.edu>. The infor- mation in this document has been gathered from a variety of sources but, in general, the members of ClassicCmp should be credited for all contain- ed herein. I have, of course, endeavored to be as accurate as is possible and often failed ;). This FAQ is Part 3 of the ClassicCmp FAQ Trilogy. The information presented deals with regularly asked questions which are technical in nature. If you have questions, comments, or corrections (always welcome) please contact me at the address above. A current copy of this FAQ is available on the web at http://weber.u. washington.edu/~bcw/ccl.html or via anonymous FTP at 140.142.225.27 in the directory /pub/classiccmp/faqs as classiccmp.faq. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Updates: New Sections: 5.1 Updated Sections: 1.2, 2.4, 4.1, 5.1 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1. General ------------------ 1.1 I just picked up a new machine. What should I do? 1.2 What's the best way to clean these dingy tan boxes? 2. Media -------- 2.1 What's a hard sector disk? What's a soft sector disk? 2.2 What's SS/SD, DS/DD, DS/QD, DS/HD, etc. 2.3 Can these formats be interchanged? 2.4 What disk sizes are there? 2.5 How do I take care of old media? 3. Component Failure Issues --------------------------- 3.1 Do EPROM's go bad? 3.2 How about ROM's, other chips? 3.3 How about capacitors? 3.4 Anything else? 3.5 So how do I backup all this stuff like you suggest? 4. Software ----------- 4.1 Where can I get a system disk for platform X? 4.2 What's the best way to back up my software? 5. Specific Problems/Solutions ------------------------------ 5.1 Is it possible to bypass an RF modulator to achieve composite output? ============================================================================= 1.1 I just picked up a new machine. What should I do? Don't power it up yet! All of the following should probably be done before that power switch gets flipped. Open the case - clean and visually inspect components. You're looking for traces of smoke, water, corrosion, loose screws, blown caps and resistors, cold (broken) solder joints, bent pins, etc. It may be a good idea to remove and re-seat all socketed components and connectors. If anything burned or overheated it will probably pay to replace it before powering up the unit. You can avoid a number of problems just by taking a peek inside. If you have the tools (and the machine is sufficiently rare) pull and dump backups of all EPROMs, ROMs, and PALs. If you have really cool tools (like a logic analyzer) it has been suggested that you use them to record critical information from those oh-so-hard-to-find custom chips. Specific information on how to do this is beyond the scope of a FAQ, but you probably know what you need to if you own the appropriate tools. Disconnect the power supply from the rest of the computer and start it up on a "dummy load". A six volt headlight bulb has been recommended as a convenient load. These should be available from any decent Volkswagen shop. Running the power supply without a load could result in damage to it. You may want to check the voltage output before you do this as it could be no where near the 5V average in micros. Even if you don't want to connect a load it's still probably a good idea to power it up separately from the computer for the first time. If you have a really rare beast it may be worth powering up some of the key capacitors out of circuit just to get them warmed up. Now you can power it up. Assuming it works, take a blank disk, format it, write some data to it, and read it back before using your precious software with it, as a bad disk drive could really ruin your day. 1.2 What's the best way to clean these dingy tan boxes? Cases: It seems best to start gently with such old equipment. Try soaking in a little water and dish soap and then scrubbing. This takes care of most jobs. For removing stickers try mineral oil or Goo-Gone (available at most hardware stores - in the US at least). If those don't work, acetone can be good but, if overused, can do more harm. For removing marker, almost any solvent is good (alcohol, naptha, etc) but will definitely discolor or dissolve plastic if not carefully applied. Lava soap is also good for removing marker but can smooth off textured plastic. For removing sun or tobacco discoloring a product called Purple Stuff available from auto parts stores (again, in the US at least) seems to do the job almost effortlessly. Recommended commercial products: Purple Stuff from Kragen [for discoloration] Brasso [ink/marker] (can discolor plastic) Antistatic Foam Cleaner from Electrolube [for discoloration/markings] Citra-Solv [for discoloration] (can dissolve plastic if undiluted) Cameo Copper Cleaner [ink/marker] Naptha [for stickers/goop/spooge] (very flammable) 3M GP Adhesive Remover [for stickers/goop/spooge] CRC 226 / CRC 556 [for stickers/goop/spooge] Fulcron [for discoloration] Blue Shower / BS II [for stickers/goop/spooge] Connectors: For edge connectors a plain pink eraser seems good for removing corrosion. Apparently other colors of eraser indicate a different texture - which may be damaging. Make sure to wipe the connectors with a clean cloth after erasing on them. There are a large number chemicals on the market that "magically" remove corrosion from components but as I don't know how safe they are, I'm not anxious to promote any of them. For pin style connectors a toothbrush and some softscrub or other mildly abrasive cleaner do wonders. Recommended commercial products: Electrolube contact cleaning sprays. Keyboards: I find a cycle through the dishwasher does a really nice job on keyboards. Just be sure they're completely dry before you put any power to them. If there is reason not to use a dishwasher (some key labels can come off) it is usually possible to remove each keycap and clean conventionally. [][][][][][][][][][] 2.1 What's a hard sectored disk? What's a soft sectored disk? We'll start with soft-sector since they're simpler to explain. On a soft-sector floppy disk the information that marks where a sector begins and ends is written to the disk by the computer (part of the formatting process). This means that various computers can use the same floppy disk types because the format of the disk is control- led by the operating system. Hard sector disks use a system of perforations in the media to mark the beginnings and ends of sectors. This means that computers which used hard sectored disks required the exact disk type they specified rather than a generic soft-sector floppy. A number of differently sectored disks were available - at least 10, 13, and 16 sector formats. 8 inch and 5.25 inch disks commonly used hard sectoring. 3.5 inch disks never came hard-sectored and, in fact, it would not be possible. 2.2 What's SS/SD, DS/DD, DS/QD, DS/HD, etc. These all refer to the number of useable sides on a disk and it's density (how "efficiently" the magnetic bits are pushed together). SS/SD is a Single Sided - Single Density disk, the earliest available type I believe. The storage afforded by a single density disk was very small compared to today's standards. Single Sided disks were popular because they were cheaper than DS and could be easily modified with a hole punch into double sided disks. SD was followed by Double Density which, amazingly, doubled the amount of storage space. Double Density was followed by the extremely short-lived Quad Density which doubled a DD disk. QD was short lived because High Density was right on it's heels and nearly doubled disk capacity again. DS/HD was as sophisticated as 5.25" disks became. 3.5" disks have progressed as far as DS/EHD double-sided / extra-high density. 2.3 Can these formats be interchanged? Well, that may depend on what computer you are using, but in general the following substitutions may be made: Desired Format Substitute --------------------------------------------------- Single Density Double Density Double Density none reliably Quad Density DD, HD (sometimes work, not advisable!) High Density none Other substitutions may be made, but due to physical differences in how the disks are made they are generally unreliable. It can almost be guaranteed that data written to a proper density disk of poor quality will last longer than data written to a good quality disk of the wrong density. In the case of quad density no substitution should be considered reliable. DD and HD disks both can be forced to work. One may work better than the other given the peculiarities of various drives. 2.4 What disk sizes are there? Disk Types? Physically? Standard Disks Unique/Proprietary Disks --------------------------------------------------------- 8" (Floppy) 5" (MiniFloppy) 5.25" (MiniFloppy) 3.25" (MicroFloppy) 3.5" (MicroFloppy) 3" (MicroFloppy) 2.5" 2" In addition to odd sizes - there is at least one type of disk which was physically different. "Twiggy" disks for the Apple Lisa 1 were regular 5.25" disks with the exception that they had two read/write windows. One was oriented "north" of the center hole, the other "south". 2.5 How do I take care of old media? Step one is Back It Up! After that, make sure it's kept in a clean, dry, temperature-controlled environment (I keep mine in a broken freezer). With disks it seems important to keep them standing on end rather than lying flat - the same goes for cassette tapes. I like to exercise disks and tapes at least once every six months although I have no real evidence that this has any positive effect. I have modified an old C64 floppy drive to simply spin when a disk is inserted and send large stacks of disks through it on a regular basis just to make sure they're not starting to stick up internally. An exciting and somewhat recent development is that availability of classic computer emulators that can make disk images of old media on PC's and Macs. This seems to be a very good way to backup disks since they will eventually go bad no matter how well we take care of them. The official line seems to be that floppy disks have a shelf-life of approximately 10 years. With proper care many are lasting a lot longer. [][][][][][][][][][] 3.1 Do EPROM's go bad? Definitely. They apparently are considered to reliably contain data for (on the outside edge) 15 years. This amount can be considerably reduced if, for example, the sticker over the window has dried out and fallen off. Luckily EPROMs were not used too extensively but they're out there. An EPROM writer/reader is a relatively cheap investment and an easy fix. Even if an EPROM has "forgotten" it's data it is still fine for being "re-educated". 3.2 How about ROMs and other chips? Things wear out. It's likely that even components which have not been fried by catastrophic failure will simply start to die someday. ROMs can be dumped to a file and re-written if they die. Other custom chips which are all too common in micros will be far more difficult to replace. The best advice is to stockpile these chips when you can - but someday even unused chips will probably start to turn up bad. In this case the best defense is to stockpile information in the hope of being able to modify an existing component to meet your needs. 3.3 How about capacitors? This seems to be another large concern, but rather than being an unreplaceable component a capacitor will take your unreplaceable components with it when it goes. It's a good idea to check out all the caps in a system if you haven't fired it up in a while. Caps go bad with time (even tantalum caps, apparently - although they are more reliable) and should be replaced if they are suspect. It's unlikely that it will be impossible to find a replacement capacitor as they are much more standard electronic components. 3.4 Anything else? Documentation: If there's anything which is entirely unreplaceable its the docs for uncommon equipment. Once they're gone, they're gone. I regularly pick up docs I find for equipment I don't have just because I may someday. Paper will, of course. go bad over time but it will be obvious and they will be easily duplicated. Hard Disks: ST-251s, ST-502s, MFM, RLL... old hard disks are going to go bad. Then they'll be gone. Theoretically, I suppose it's possible to crack a hard drive and replace a dead bearing, realign, relaminate, etc... but I've never heard of anyone doing these things in their base- ment. Perhaps in another 5 or 10 years many of us will be experts at this. 3.5 So, how do I back up all this stuff like you suggest? This answer will undoubtedly get longer as I learn more. The best ways seem to be to dump the particular ROM (or whatever) using the approp- riate equipment to a floppy disk (which most of this equipment allows). >From there you can transfer the data to either a CD-ROM - convenient but not long term reliable storage or to mylar tape which may be inconvenient - but the official word on how long it lasts is "Damn near forever." Punch tape units are available and apparently not difficult to use with a PC (PC - the great multi-purpose classic computer peripheral). Optical tape readers are recommended. Recommended products: Tape Writers: Facit 4070, Teletype BRPE. Tape Readers: Trend 700 [][][][][][][][][][] 4.1 Where do I get a system disk for platform X? Since this is a tough one, let me break it down a little: Apple II: System disks for the Apple II are available from Apple at ftp.apple.com. Apple III system disks aren't available although probably will be soon on the ClassicCmp site. Apple Lisa disks aren't availble and probably will not be due to the extreme measure of copy protection used on them. Older Mac system software is availble on the Apple site. CP/M Systems: Ak! These can be a pain. The best source (although I've never actually talked to him) seems to be Don Maslin who runs the Dina-SIG system disk archive. He charges a small fee for the service - which I imagine is well worth the cost! He can be contacted on the internet at <donm(a)cts.com>. Other systems - let me know. 4.2 What's the best way to back up my software? One of the most promising ways that has come up is to use a PC with a soundcard as a really expensive cassette recorder for data storage. Fundamentally there's not much difference between a real recorder and and a PC equipped with sound. By storing your software in your favorite PC sound file format you can then back up to CD or tape or whatever PC medium you like. Most micros came equipped with the ability to store programs to tape and I would imagine that it would be easy to modify computers without this capability to use one. In addition, the rapid rise in the popularity of emulators has given rise to a number of disk image formats for old machines. In many cases it is possible to read/write disk images for classic computers with modern PCs. [][][][][][][][][][] 5.1 Is it possible to bypass an RF modulator to achieve composite output? Possibly - depending on what you're working on. In the simplest case it is possible to simply run off of the inputs to the modulator right to your monitor. Some setups will apparently require a video amplifier. It has also been suggested that it may help to turn of the termination switch at the monitor. ============================================================================= CREDITS CREDITS CREDITS CREDITS CREDITS ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks go out to the following people for much of this information: (some credited by e-mail handle) Adam Bergstrom Kai Kaltenbach Alexios Chouchoulas Keith Whitehead Captain Napalm Ricardo Romagnoli Chris Starling J. Maynard Gelinas Dave Jenner Douglas Zander George Lin Greg Mast Jay Vaughn Jeff Hellige Jim Strickland Jim Willing Larry Anderson Martin Evans Paul Coad Roger Merchberger Ron Mitchell Sam Ismail Tony (A.R. Duell) William Donzelli ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ==============================================================================

23 years, 6 months

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7/01/97 ClassicCmp FAQ - Part 2

by marvin＠rain.org

============================================================================= ClassicCmp - The Classic Computers Discussion List Part 2 in the ClassicCmp FAQ Trilogy List Specific FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) v1.6.2 Last Update: 7/01/97 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- This FAQ is written with the primary purpose of making readily available answers to the more common questions appearing on ClassicCmp. It is Maintained by Bill Whitson <bill(a)booster.u.washington.edu>. The infor- mation in this document has been gathered from a variety of sources but, in general, the members of ClassicCmp should be credited for all contain- ed herein. I have, of course, endeavored to be as accurate as is possible and often failed ;). This FAQ is Part 2 of the ClassicCmp FAQ Trilogy. The information presented deals with regular day-to-day issues on the list. If you have questions, comments, or corrections (always welcome) please contact me at the address above. A current copy of this FAQ is available on the web at http://weber.u. washington.edu/~bcw/ccl.html or via anonymous FTP at 140.142.225.27 in the directory /pub/classiccmp/faqs as classiccmp.faq. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Updates: New Sections: 1.5, 1.7, 2.9, 2.10 Updated Sections: 1.1, 2.3, 2.4, 3.1 Removed: 5.4, 6.1-on ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1. About the List ----------------- 1.1 What is ClassicCmp? 1.2 Why is ClassicCmp? 1.3 What's a Classic Computer? 1.4 Who runs this thing? 1.5 How come I can never reach this so-called list operator? 1.6 Don't you know you're duplicating what others have done? 1.7 How much mail should I expect to get on this list? 2. Protocol and Etiquette ------------------------- 2.1 What can I talk about? 2.2 Can I talk about PCs? 2.3 Can I talk about Mini/MainFrames? 2.4 Can I post advertisements? 2.5 Can I ask people to give me their computers? 2.6 Can I ask for help fixing item x? 2.7 Where should I look before posting a dumb question? 2.8 Can I type obscenities about Microsoft in ALL CAPS?!? 2.9 Can I post trophy lists? 2.10 Can I use obscene languagein my posts? 3. Misc List Information ------------------------ 3.1 How many subscribers are there? 3.2 How many subscribers use machine x? 3.3 Is this list archived? 4. ClassicCmp Resources on the Net ---------------------------------- 4.1 Does ClassicCmp have a Web Site? 4.2 How come the Web Site is so ugly? 4.3 Does ClassicCmp have an FTP Site? Collecting ---------- 5.1 Where can I find Classic Computers? 5.2 How much is machine x worth? 5.3 Will thousands of innocent machines be scrapped if I don't save them? 5.4 I don't understand anything. Help! ============================================================================= 1.1 What is ClassicCmp? It's a mailing list for the discussion of classic computers. Topics center on collection, restoration, and operation. It is also an appropriate place for stories and reminiscences of classic computers. Lofty discussions dealing with the philosophical and/or metaphysical aspects of computers are often better handled in private e-mail. 1.2 Why is ClassicCmp? Uh, why not? There are lots of people who love these old machines and it seems like a fun idea to get together and talk about them. 1.3 What is a Classic Computer? _Any computer_ that has not been manufactured for 10 years is a classic. This definition is one I made up and it's entirely arbitrary. It seems to work OK, so I've kept it. 1.4 Who runs this thing? That would be me, Bill Whitson - email bcw(a)u.washington.edu. 1.5 How come I can never reach this so-called list operator? Sorry. It does often take me several days (sometimes weeks!) to respond to e-mail. I am often away for days at a time and when I'm not I'm still probably busy doing real work. I receive more than double the amount of mail that goes to the list in the form of spam, bounced messages, odd user requests, general bitching, etc. and I still have to filter out the messages I actually have to respond to, to remain employed ;). I will get back to you eventually. 1.6 Do you know you're just duplicating work other people have done. I get a "reinventing the wheel" e-mail at least once a week. If you show me another group of computer collectors that claims a membership as large as this one I'll show you a group that must be very hard to find. Obviously there are other groups of collectors and I'm cheering them on - I don't see a problem with duplicating and reduplicating lore that's quickly disappearing anyway. 1.7 How much mail should I expect to get on this list? The daily load varies widely from about 10 messages to over 100. Average seems to be about 44 messages a day. There are times where the message load peaks for as much as a week. [][][][][][][][][] 2.1 What can I talk about? Anything related to classic computers as defined above. There are many people on this list that really know what they're talking about, so you might want to check facts before you start shooting off messages. It's also a good idea to actually read the FAQs and check the archives a little before posting. 2.2 Can I talk about PCs? Yes. PCs which haven't been manufactured for 10 years. Even then, be aware that in many cases you would get a better response posting to PC newsgroups. 2.3 Can I talk about Minis/MainFrames/WorkStations/Gigantic Talking Boxes with Flashing Lights & Coundown Timers/Robots from Alien Civilizations? There has apparently been some misconception that this is a list for micros/home computers only. You'll note I said "misconception". 2.4 Can I post advertisements? Sure. As long as they're related to _classic_ computers. And, of course, use your brain - don't spam. Also, please state up-front whether or not you are willing to ship the items you sell outside your country as there are members of this list in a number of different countries. 2.5 Can I ask people to sell/give me their computers? Sure. But you're not likely to get a very nice response. Mine, for example, would be: Get your own f***ing computer! There are several people on usenet who will vouch for this. When someone posts about one of their machines without offering to sell it - it's really a pretty good bet that they're not secretly trolling for offers. See section 5 for info on how to find yourself a computer. 2.6 Can I ask for help fixing item x. Yes. Be aware that it may be difficult to help you fix things if you don't have much knowledge of how computers work or of how to use basic electronics tools (VOM/DMM, soldering iron, EPROM burner, etc). I'm no whiz with this stuff and the little knowledge I have has come from asking questions and then buying books to find out what "Simple... Just check the voltage on the caps in the PS to make sure one of them isn't flaking out!" exactly means. 2.7 Where can I look before posting a dumb question? It might be a good idea to take a look at what's available in the Archive section of the ClassicCmp web site (see below). 2.8 Can I type obscenities about Microsoft in ALL CAPS!?! (Or, in general, be unreasonable with reagard to advocacy posts?) Check your anti-MS baggage at the door, please. For that matter, drop any posts that serve only to perpetuate the holy wars. 2.9 Can I post trophy lists? Ahem. Er... I'm not going to go to the extent of banning this practise but it is considered bad manners. Don't whine to me because I used to be guilty of this and curbed myself ;). Post lists of newly acquired goods if you actually need info on them, not just to show off. 2.10 Can I use obscene language in my posts? Yes. Although I'm sure many people would prefer you did not. A number of people have complained about this. I'm not going to outlaw swearing - now that I've informed you that it bothers people you can make your choice. [][][][][][][][][][] 3.1 How many subscribers are there? Around 180 and changing daily. 3.2 How many subscribers use machine x? Check the web site (see below). The Classic Computer Encyclopedia shows the number of machines registered by subscribers. 3.3 Is this list archived? Yes. The archives are available on the FTP site (see below) in the directory /pub/classiccmp/archive. The file name format indicates the month/year of the archive. Keep in mind that they are quite large. [][][][][][][][][][] 4.1 Does ClassicCmp have a web site? Yep. http://weber.u.washington.edu/bcw/ccl.html 4.2 How come the web site is so ugly? How come a PET is so ugly? Who cares as long as it works? 4.3 Does ClassicCmp have an FTP site? Yes. Anonymous FTP at 140.142.225.27. Look in /pub/classiccmp. There's not much there that's not available on the web site. I'm starting to load old drivers and system disks on occasion. There is an incoming directory which subscribers may use for ClassicCmp-related file transfers if needed. [][][][][][][][][][] 5.1 Where can I find classic computers? The best places seem to be thrift stores and swap meets. These are closely followed by pawn shops and mom and pop computer stores. The holy grails are electronics scrap yards - but they tend to be wary of individual pick-and-choosers. Oh yeah - garage sales! 5.2 How much is machine x worth? Precisely as much as you'll pay for it. Oh, you're selling it? Then, precisely as much as I'll pay for it. Seriously, no one prices these any more. I have an old Computer Blue Book that lists many classic computers but the prices are just ridiculous. Some machines (Apple Lisa's, old old Mini's, and unreleased prototypes) are starting down the road toward their original selling prices but it's unlikely that most will ever be worth more than the cost of their components. 5.3 Will 1000's of innocent machines be scrapped if I don't save them? Yes. This is the impetus behind every collector's tireless and selfless effort. Each machine we fail to save has it's gold parts mercilessly hacked off and sold (just like rhino horns - and look at the rhinos). The remainder is then sent to China to be made into bicycle spokes (you probably think I'm joking). Save a computer! Act now! Remind your SO of the rhino and cuter, fuzzier animals. It might work. In all seriousness - there are a large (and growing) number of so called "computer and electronics 'recyclers'" who take usable computers and recycle them into "reusable scrap". Small amounts of gold, silver, and platinum are extracted and the remainder of the material is generally just marketed to less wasteful countries. 5.4 I don't understand anything. Help! Don't worry - you're not the only one. Reading this list, old magazines, books and whatever else you can get your hands on is the first step. Once you reach a critical mass of knowledge thigs get a lot easier. I'm working on putting together a list of books and tools that a beginner should get his hands on. If you have suggestions, let me know. =============================================================================

23 years, 6 months

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Toshiba T3200SX Question

by CLeyson＠aol.com

On Fri, 4 Jan 2002 tothwolf(a)concentric.net wrote: >I've never seen a lithium battery leak from old age. I have some sitting >around that were made in the mid '80s. I'll make a note to avoid this >particular brand if I can help it. Does the motor still turn? It may just >need to be cleaned up. It think the battery must have gassed as well. There is evidence of bad corrosion to zinc plated parts two to three inches from the battery. Aluminium and copper parts seem to be OK. The head stepper motor still works but is badly corroded on the outside. I will have to remove it to clean it properly and then re-align with a known good floppy. >> Before I get around to cleaning the boards I will need to figure out how to >> disconnect the display. The connecting cables are hardwired to the main >> board :-( >Are they soldered? Do they use flat plastic or standard ribbon cable? Standard twisted pair ribbon cable terminated with a 26 way 0.1in pitch IDC transition connector which is soldered to the board. I will probably cut the cable and remove the connector (one pin at a time) and replace with a standard IDC plug and socket. I can't understand why they didn't do this in the first place, there is enough room to fit both a plug and socket. Also, the display power cable has no connector fitted. BTW, I worked with a guy who accidentally recharged an AA sized Lithium battery. It left shrapnel in the wall and he is still slighty deaf in one ear. Chris It lef

23 years, 6 months

2
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Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainful employment

by Golemancd＠aol.com

sometimes i forget that computer folks r technical people. i come from the arts where the only thing that is needed is understanding. i am on stage sometimes and all the musicians do is just nod or look at each other and everyone understands them. will try and and be more precise. i guess here that is needed. joee

23 years, 6 months

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Toshiba T3200SX Question

by CLeyson＠aol.com

On Fri, 4 Jan 2002 tothwolf(a)concentric.net wrote: >> Thanks for the advice. Found the battery, or rather what's left of it. >> Whatever it is that leaks or gasses out of Lithium batteries has eaten >> into most of the steelwork. I will have to replace the floppy drive >> and clean up metalwork. :-( >Are you sure it's a Lithium battery? I think most of these used NiCads, >and recharged them when they were powered. It's definitely Lithium (Eternacell B9632T 3.6V). I think the machine must have been on it's side when the battery leaked. There is a lot a corrosion damage to the FDD mounting hardware and the FDD head stepper motor. Anything zinc plated seems to have been badly corroded. The main board appears to be OK. Two crystal cans are badly corroded (zinc plated) and some of the solder joints in the area are a little "dull". Everything functions normally apart from the erratic FDD. FDD and HDD have non standard 26-way and 40-way connectors respectively. I've found a source for replacement FDD, ecdmagnetics.co.uk. >A number of the boards I repaired after the Houston floods had damage from >the Lithium coin cells around the holders. It was an dark orange-red color >and didn't seem to be highly alkaline or acidic. A thorough cleaning with >baking soda and a plastic brush seemed to get rid of this stuff. Before I get around to cleaning the boards I will need to figure out how to disconnect the display. The connecting cables are hardwired to the main board :-( Thanks for the advice Chris Leyson

23 years, 6 months

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Strange and Possibly Wonderful Cable

by mythtech＠Mac.com

>The 2 things I can't really identify are a Panasonic Easa-Phone, >KX-T1225 which seems to be a speed-dialer of some sort. Grey box with 4 columns of buttons (something like 10 or 15 rows), and two RJ jacks at the top (RJ45 and RJ11?). If that is what you have, then it sounds like these old PBX speed dialers I had (probably not, but just in case, here goes)... IIRC mine said Panasonic Easa-Phone on them too. The ones I had, I think could only be plugged into the old Bell PBX they were used with. They didn't work on POTS lines. They had a 50 pin "Blue Ribbon" (WOOHOO... now that I know the name, I can use it correctly) to 5 RJ12 adaptor that was plugged into the 25 pair telco cable. It used an RJ12 to RJ45 adaptor cable to plug into the Telco adaptor. And then the RJ11 jack on the dialer was used to hook up to a speaker/mic box (a la Charlie's Angels desktop speaker phone box) I might still have one kicking around, but I don't think I have any manuals (don't recall ever having manuals). -chris <http://www.mythtech.net>

23 years, 6 months

2
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Lazer 128 Apple IIe Clone

by mythtech＠Mac.com

I know there are some Apple ][ clone people on this list, so I thought I would forward this on. I would love the Lazer 128, but can't afford to ship it, and Michigan is too far for me to drive to pick it up... maybe one you would want it: >Subject: [swap] Anyone insterested in Apple IIgs or Lazer 128. >Date: 1/4/02 7:57 PM >Received: 1/4/02 9:42 PM >From: Scott Simons, mrvchung(a)iserv.net >To: LEM Swap List, lem-swap(a)mail.maclaunch.com > >Just like the subject says. Anyone insterested in Apple IIgs or Lazer >128. I'm not all I have because they are in storage, but I will try to >get to them this weekend. I will then have a list of hardware that would >come with them. Local to 49418 or 49345 would be great. > >Scott >GR, MI Reply to him, not me, I don't know anything more than the above listing. -chris <http://www.mythtech.net>

23 years, 6 months

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Way OT: Frost Heaves (was RE: Crescent wrenches (was: Nomenclatur e (was: NEXT Color Printer find

by mhstein＠usa.net

Oooooohhh.. Groan... GOOD ONE; LOL! Makes all the OT crap worth while. -------------Original Message------------------- Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 10:31:54 -0700 From: "Feldman, Robert" <Robert_Feldman(a)jdedwards.com> Since ee cummings had been disparaged here, one could interpret the term as critical of a certain New England poet ;)

23 years, 6 months

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Language and English

by vze2mnvr＠verizon.net

Dick, > Note that this item is NOT published on the mailing list, > since few people will be interested in its content. Note that this item IS published on the mailing list, because quite frankly, Charlotte, I don't give a damn. > see below, plz. Does this portray a laziness on your part that makes the reader have to hunt through a long message to see what you have to say? I had noticed this many times in the past, but previously refrained from mentioning it. I felt that, up to now, I would tolerate your style. > If your message is not germane to that topic, if it contains > no relevant information, or if it reflects no thought, it > should not be there. Can I also hold you to this, or do you succumb to a double standard? I recall so many messages from you, so many of which were off topic, that I thought only someone who had nothing better to do with their time, could have so much time to devote to a "mailing list". Is that better? > If you had attended all your classes, performed all the assigned > reading and writing, and taken the feedback from your teachers > seriously, you'd be able to express yourself precisely and > accurately using the tools the system provided. The fact that you > don't shows that you didn't. I attended enough classes to graduate in the top 1% out of a graduating class of over 700, taking the hardest level of classes available in the advanced placement program, all the while working nearly full time while I was in school. You obviously have me confused with someone else. > If I were you, I'd not start on blaming the educational system > for your own inability to communicate in the prevailing language > in our culture. > Those are things clearly absent from your "stream-of-consciousness" writing style, ... I'd sit down with you anytime and compare literary abilities and writing styles. I might not be world class, but you'll never out perform me when I'm on a project that, to me, is of greater importance than a "mailing list" message. > Did you ever study FORTRAN FORTRAN IV at Old Dominion University when I was 16, back in 1973. I was released from some of my Chemistry classes to simultaneously take that programming class. > not to mention oddly composed, incomprehensibly formatted, and > poorly spelled items, written in poor grammar and with incom- > prehensibly incorrect syntax. Again, you obviously must have me confused with Joee who posted the message that began this thread. > It's not a place for idle chatter, nor is it a place to prattle > on about senseless things, though that happens from time to time. Yes, you do this quite often. > English is a Germanic language, That was my mistake. I have now learned something new, or a misconception of mine has now been corrected. I thank you, it will not be forgotten. http://softrat.home.mindspring.com/germanic.html Now I will have to ponder why there are so many similarities between French and Italian words and their English counterparts, while to me the German language seems so much different. Ian Richard Erlacher wrote: > > Note that this item is NOT published on the mailing list, since few people > will be interested in its content. That is how personalized replies > normally are handled in this environment. > > see below, plz. > > Dick > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ian Koller" <vze2mnvr(a)verizon.net> > To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>; "Richard Erlacher" <edick(a)idcomm.com> > Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 10:06 AM > Subject: Re: Language and English > > > > Hello Dick, > > > > I get the impression, which may not be correct, that you > > may be retired, because of the greater amount of time that > > you are able to devote to reading and responding to newsgroup > > messages. > > > Contrary to what you apparently believe, this is not a newsgroup. This is a > mailing list, and one that's privately maintained, funded, and hosted. I'd > suggest you find out what a newsgroup is and then proceed. I'd also > suggest you consider why this list exists. It's a medium for communicating > information and thoughts germane to a specific topic. If your message is > not germane to that topic, if it contains no relevant information, or if it > reflects no thought, it should not be there. > > > > If this is so, that would mean you encountered an educational > > system at a previous date in time that may have been more formal > > than that which I encountered. > > > Nope ... I have two kids in expensive, out-of-state colleges thouseands of > miles away, and that doesn't allow me to sit on my duff and read nonsense, > not to mention oddly composed, incomprehensibly formatted, and poorly > spelled items, written in poor grammar and with incomprehensibly incorrect > syntax. > > If I were you, I'd not start on blaming the educational system for your own > inability to communicate in the prevailing language in our culture. If you > had attended all your classes, performed all the assigned reading and > writing, and taken the feedback from your teachers seriously, you'd be able > to express yourself precisely and accurately using the tools the system > provided. The fact that you don't shows that you didn't. > > I was actively engaged in assisting as well as monitoring the education of > my children as they went through the public education system. From that > experience I learned that one can still get the level of education necessary > to express onesself appropriately and accurately in terms of the common > mathematics and science and with reference to the same historical and > literary background that has traditionally been taught. It is a different > process than it was when I went through it, which I did in grades 6 through > 12, and onward, probably all well before you were born. > > > > Question. Did you ever study Latin? Was Latin offered in your > > school system? It was not offered in mine, but since I recently > > have been in contact with people in France, Italy, Germany, and > > Spain, I believe having studied the root language of all the > > "romance" languages would have proven helpful now. I'll bet that > > when Latin no longer became a requirement in many educational > > programs, there was more than one that must have felt that > > that was a sign of deteriorating standards. > > > No, I didn't study Latin, since people don't use it any longer. I was > studying English, which, as everyone knows, is NOT a romance language. > > Did you ever study FORTRAN (before FTN77) or COBOL? At least those are > still used ... occasionally. > > Latin was taught in order to teach the concept of structure and rigor. > Those are things clearly absent from your "stream-of-consciousness" writing > style, which suggests that, if you did study Latin, you didn't attend all > the classes or perform all the assigned work. > > English is a Germanic language, like, German, which also is not a romance > language, and is my "second" language, German having been the first. That > may explain why my adherence to precise grammar, syntax, and orthography > leans somewhat to the pedantic. > > I'd suggest that you take the extra moment or two to think about what you > need to say in the ClassicCmp mailing list environment BEFORE you say it, in > which case you won't have to defend it afterwards, which really isn't > necessary anyway. I'd also suggest you take time to consider the effect of > what you do to format, punctuate, and capitalize your writing on other > people's ability to read what you transmit. The mailing list isn't a "Chat" > room. It's not a place for idle chatter, nor is it a place to prattle on > about senseless things, though that happens from time to time. > > Oddly formatted messages become nearly unreadable on displays formatted > differently from yours, and there's little you can do about it, since you've > no control over the display system some folks use. Many of the users of > "the list" are in other countries, which means they're using a language with > which they're not familiar. > > The use of colloqialisms, particularly the use of esoteric abbreviations, > can render your messages unintelligible. The reason most of us use > "standard" English is that (1) because it's familiar to us, we can quickly > and easily read it, extracting the content with reasonable reliability, and > (2) because people not so familiar with popular idioms will not have to > spend time deciphering them. It's difficult enough sifting through the > computerese jargon. > > > I take time form my busy day to tell you all this because you may have > something of value to contribute. Learning, first and foremost, requires > exposure to information that one doesn't already have. If there's little of > that, and if your messages are difficult to read, your messages will > ultimately end up in the "kill file" rather than on the list of things > people read. That will, of course be transparent to you, since the listbot > will still distribute the things you transmit. It will just become a waste > of bandwidth, however. > > > > Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > > > > Gee ... judging from the net unwillingness to use normal "adult" > > > punctuation, captitalization, etc, it does look as though you're doing > it > > > just to be "cute." I can't think of a single reason, otherwise, why one > > > would one do that? > > > > > > When I was in the 8th grade, one of the courses we were required to take > was > > > in typing. I've never gotten particularly good at it, but I did learn > that > > > a period at the end of a sentence is followed by two spaces, for > example. > > > In about the first grade, I learned that the first letter in a sentence > is > > > customarily capitalized. Why? I don't know, but it appears to be the > > > custom. As a consequence, the absence of these basic features makes > one's > > > writing harder to read. The odd-length lines of text don't help > > > readability, either. It's also customary to insert a blank line between > > > paragraphs. That, surely, is to enhance readability. If you want > people to > > > read your stuff, you've got to make it easy for them. > > > > > > If you insist on writing in a style reminiscent of E. E. Cummings > poetry, > > > you may find that your messages are read by readers of this forum with > about > > > the same frequency as E.E. Cummings' work, which might be a shame, in > case > > > you really do have something significant to contribute. or in case I'm > the > > > only one who doesn't read much Cummings. > > > > > > Dick > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: <Golemancd(a)aol.com> > > > To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> > > > Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 6:13 AM > > > Subject: Re: Language and English > > > > > > > this may help > > > > i am 38 years old, so there is nothing about my typing style > > > > where i am trying to be cute. > > > > i collect any computer i can get my hands on. > > > > i am developing an operating system and a multimedia program > > > > to create movies. > > > > i use a newer computer to produce records. > > > > i am also working out, as i was talking about > > > > in the original thread that got off track, a distributed > > > > os to control robots and also a custom computer > > > > to do the same. > > > > > > > > i guess thats it. > > > > joee > > > > > > > > > > > >

23 years, 6 months

6
5
0 0

RFD: SPAM

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jan 4, 17:43, Doc wrote: > On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > > > Well, about the only thing I've found that seems to deter spammers is > > being aggressive with them. Phone calls and faxes to companies they do > > business with and work for seem to work wonders. > > Well, it looks like the relationship between subscribing to this list > and the wave of spam was simply coincidental. I do use agressive means > to discourage repeat performances, but I'll admit the latest wave of > character-based asian crap has me stumped. I don't know for sure that it's the list, but I only use this email address for private mail and this list. I never use it in other obvious places that would attract spam, such as Usenet, yet I seem to get a little flurry of extra spam every so often, corresponding to shortly after I post something here. I'm convinced there's some relationship. Quite how to reconcile that with the fact that other people who post here never seem to have a problem, I don't know. I've learned to live with it. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

23 years, 6 months

2
1
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Language and English

by mythtech＠Mac.com

>Unfortunately, todays student doesn't have the tools he needs to cope with a >foreign language if he hasn't been taught basic sentence structure(subject, >verb, predicate nominative, predicate adjective, etc.) , spelling, and >grammar. What the hell is THIS based on? Certainly not reality. Any sentence structure and grammar I learned in English class was actually COUNTER PRODUCTIVE to me when trying to learn French that uses a totally different sentence structure. I was constantly confused when attempting to form a sentence in French, as I tried to speak it in English structure. I would have to conclude, that LACK of basic sentence structure knowledge in English will actually HELP a student learn other languages (including English in the long run, as their brain becomes programmed to a more open thought process towards language). I base this on my own difficulties in learning a foreign language... and on the absolute EASE with which my brother's 3 kids have learned Spanish and English by growing up in a bilingual house hold... as well as my cousin who was speaking fluent Italian and English by 3 (well, as fluent as a 3 yr old speaks any language), since he too grew up in a bilingual household. Add to it that the most common foreign language errors made by people that have basic fluency in multiple languages, is incorrect sentence structure... because they easily mix up what order things should be in for a given language. Nope... in reality, I think the LESS you know of a given language when attempting to learn additional ones, the better chance you have of learning the 2nd (or more) language. And for that reason, I feel foreign languages should be started at the grade school level, and NOT wait until high school (yes, I think learning multiple languages is very important... and should be required schooling, at least in the USA. With a stronger concentration on English since it is the "accepted" language of the USA... in other countries, YMMV, and the "base" language would obviously be the accepted language of the area) -chris <http://www.mythtech.net>

23 years, 6 months

4
3
0 0

DECstation hardware guide

by LFessen106＠aol.com

In a message dated Fri, 4 Jan 2002 8:09:43 PM Eastern Standard Time, "Peter C. Wallace" <pcw(a)mesanet.com> writes: > On Fri, 4 Jan 2002 Colorfulfag(a)aol.com wrote: > > > In a message dated Fri, 4 Jan 2002 7:42:35 PM Eastern Standard Time, Doc <doc(a)mdrconsult.com> writes: > > > > > On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Peter C. Wallace wrote: > > > > > > > > Anyone got a handful o' ram for it? > > > > > > > > > > Doc > > > > > > > several handfulls, maybe even shovelfulls... > > > > > > > > > > > > 3100's take 12 simms max for 24 M total > > > > > > So what'cha want for it? I got a lot more toys than cash.... Some > > > RS/6000 MCA stuff, some Sparc sbus doohickeys and a mouse or 3, with > > > optical pads, lotsa late-ISA/early-PCI PC stuff. I got 4Mb parity > > > SIMMs, 72-pin, out the wazoo. Or a PowerBook 145B, sans battery, but > > > with charger brick. Or.... > > > > > > Doc > > > > I would love to get some ram for these as well.. I happen to have a > > *few* spare 3100'ds with no ram in them. > > > > -Linc. > > > > > > > How many do you need? > > shipping should be minimal > > Peter Wallace 12, 24, how many do you have / what's the cost / what are you willing to part with :-)

23 years, 6 months

1
0
0 0

Language and English

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Hans Franke [mailto:Hans.Franke@mch20.sbs.de] > Thank you very much. So it seams there is a 'school' forcing this in > the US .... and I always wondered why some people add two spaces after > a period. There's even a very old 'text beautyfier' for DOS which > inserted this (for my eyes) stupid spaces. Well, I guess CC is no > only the hardwarae :=) I think that it's supposed to help the eye differentiate between space between words and space between sentences. Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

23 years, 6 months

3
2
0 0

DECstation hardware guide

by Colorfulfag＠aol.com

In a message dated Fri, 4 Jan 2002 7:42:35 PM Eastern Standard Time, Doc <doc(a)mdrconsult.com> writes: > On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Peter C. Wallace wrote: > > > > Anyone got a handful o' ram for it? > > > > > > Doc > > > several handfulls, maybe even shovelfulls... > > > > > > 3100's take 12 simms max for 24 M total > > So what'cha want for it? I got a lot more toys than cash.... Some > RS/6000 MCA stuff, some Sparc sbus doohickeys and a mouse or 3, with > optical pads, lotsa late-ISA/early-PCI PC stuff. I got 4Mb parity > SIMMs, 72-pin, out the wazoo. Or a PowerBook 145B, sans battery, but > with charger brick. Or.... > > Doc I would love to get some ram for these as well.. I happen to have a *few* spare 3100'ds with no ram in them. -Linc.

23 years, 6 months

2
1
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Last call for MFM drives, floppies and misc

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

still have some goodies left. pay shipping and maybe enough for lunch at taco bell, and it can be yours! 1.2 and 360k 5.25 floppy drives. untested though. 6 processor cards for IBM PS/2 series that use em (8590,9590,9595,etc) functional 3 ST-251 hard drives. LLF complete 2 ST-225 hard drives. LLF complete 2 seagate type 2 3.5 MFM drives. 7 conner CP1080E 1G drives with funky connector. came from SUN array. Micropolis ESDI 70m Seagate ST-125 drive. LLF complete ?? MFM drive 5 heads 985 cyl 26 sec miniscribe 3650 MFM drive IBM 70M ESDI IBM XT 10 meg FH 5.25 drive Small IDE drives 80-120m come and get it. Getting married, so have to simplify some, but not a lot! -- Antique Computer Virtual Museum www.nothingtodo.org

23 years, 6 months

1
0
0 0

Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainful employment

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jan 4, 13:58, Ian Koller wrote: > > > Dick, > > I don't use a spell checker, because, quite frankly, > it is an extremely rare event that I misspell a word. > > Now, which word is it that I misspelled that makes you > say this? definately -> definitely > > > His "style" was definately different than the "norm" for -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

23 years, 6 months

1
0
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Language and English

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jan 4, 11:12, Richard Erlacher wrote: > Yup! Here's another one ... a blank message with an attachment. > > Of course I won't open it ... Somewhere on your system will be a file called mime.types or some equivalent. That's what your mail program uses to determine what type the attachment is. You need to update it. If you're lucky, you also have a mailcap file somewhere that tells your mailer how to handle it -- telling it to treat it as plain text (or better still, the way it handles multipart/alternative will possibly work) is both safe and useful (in that you'll be able to read it). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

23 years, 6 months

1
0
0 0

Toshiba T3200SX Question

by CLeyson＠aol.com

Thanks for the advice. Found the battery, or rather what's left of it. Whatever it is that leaks or gasses out of Lithium batteries has eaten into most of the steelwork. I will have to replace the floppy drive and clean up metalwork. :-( Chris Leyson

23 years, 6 months

2
1
0 0

OT: Not P.C. hack-ob

by DAW＠yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu

! -----Original Message----- ! From: Dan Schwartz [mailto:Expresso@snip.net] ! ! ! Of all sites to get hacked, The National Cathedral. Click on: ! <http://www.cathedral.org/cathedral/> ! and check out the mouse-over effect for the "Discover" link :-) ! ! Who knows how much longer it'll stay up?! I know, it's not nice, but it is still kinda funny... --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818

23 years, 6 months

5
4
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Man alive, I just can't resist

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Glen Goodwin" <acme_ent(a)bellsouth.net> > > > From: Golemancd(a)aol.com > > > This is becoming a pretty silly thread because there can be > > > understanding > > > without proper grammer ; if we are being technical here. > > Every computer I ever met would gag on the above statement ;>) > -----Original Message----- > From: Richard Erlacher [mailto:edick@idcomm.com] > Yes, starting with the spelling errors. I think a perl interpreter may actually execute it ;) Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

23 years, 6 months

2
1
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Hep me!! scsi adapter DOS drivers (ot?)

by rhudson＠cnonline.net

--probably off topic... I am not sure of the age of the board but Adaptec seems to think it's not supportable any more... :^( Anybody have DOS ASPI drivers for the ADAPTEC AHA-1542CF?? Tis an ISA scsi card with floppy attach and I have it in a 486 machine ---------------------------------- The machine seems to be a 486dx in a "lunchbox" style case with color lcd. looks like a normal motherboard is inside.. goes by the name of PCIII, with no other markings as to MFG. Any one know anything about this?

23 years, 6 months

13
23
0 0

RFD: SPAM

by doc＠mdrconsult.com

Y'all, I've had this email account for a while, and never been particularly reticent about using or giving out the address. I've seen an unbelievable increase in incoming spam since I joined this list. Yes, I'm familiar with procmail filtering, and am about to start that, but I'm curious as to why this list in particular attracts so much garbage. I've seen a couple of other references to this, so I don't think I'm out on a limb here. What's going on, and is there a reasonable deterrent? Doc

23 years, 6 months

4
4
0 0

Language and English

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jan 4, 11:45, Richard Erlacher wrote: > If the period took up as much space as another character, that would be > true, but with mail readers that perform kerning as though they were trying > to prepare text for publication, the period gets short-schrift, so to speak, > and often is nearly invisible. The practice of inserting two spaces was > inherited from the requirement for it in the printing/publishing industry. Actually, it has long been normal to use the same space between sentences as between words in printing. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

23 years, 6 months

1
0
0 0

Megabyte vs Mebibyte (was Re: Language and English)

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jan 4, 10:39, Ethan Dicks wrote: > Besides the 1000 x 1024 method, the moniker "1.44Mb" has an additional > marketing advantage - it's a simple multiple of 720K (which is really > a 1Mb raw floppy, formatted to 737,280 bytes under DOS, or 1024 x 720). > It's easier to conceptualize that a "1.44Mb" floppy holds twice as much > as a "720K" floppy. If you called it a "1.47Mb" floppy, I think there > would be even more confused newbies than there are now. My nitpick is that it's "MB" (megabytes) not "Mb" (megabits). And *of course* it's 1.40625MB, or 1.4MB for short :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

23 years, 6 months

1
0
0 0

Language and English

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jan 4, 12:49, David Woyciesjes wrote: > ! From: Richard Erlacher > ! > ! It's never safe to open an attachment to an otherwise undefined email. > ! > ! I'd suspect only two or three on this list will be foolish > ! enough to open > ! this one. > ! > ! Dick > > Huh? What attachment? I think Dick is referring to the fact that Dan's posts appear on many systems as an empty message with a single attachment of raw data. It's actually typed "multipart/signed", and it ought to appear as a text attachment (or a text main part) with an attached signature block, but on software that doesn't intrinsically understand multipart/signed (like mine, and apparently Dick's), it doesn't. Probably something to do with the fact that "multipart/signed" is not one of the original MIME types. Maybe Dan could turn off the PGP signature for the list? I thought we'd agreed that multipart posts were inappropriate, or was that just "multipart/alternative"? However, since it's correctly typed it would seem fairly safe to open -- especially for those of us using a Unix machine to read mail :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

23 years, 6 months

1
0
0 0

Compenents Source?

by csmith＠amdocs.com

Something like these? http://www.smokeyamps.com/popups/smokeypop.htm They sell for about $25. 1/4" headphone in/out plugs, and they last quite a while on a 9-volt. Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' > -----Original Message----- > From: Kent Borg [mailto:kentborg@borg.org] > In olden days I would go to Radio Shack, but that doesn't work > anymore, so I though I would ask here. > Anyone know where I could find a small, cheap, low power, amplified, > battery powered speaker? Back when I would have bought a "telephone > amplifier", but in 2002 I can't immedaitely find such a thing.

23 years, 6 months

1
0
0 0

VAX 6400 booting saga: how to transfer binaries to VMS with kermit?

by gunther＠aurora.regenstrief.org

Hi, I'm ripping my hair out over VMS (as usual). I have a little magic file that I need to transfer from PC to VAX. And kermit on both ends. I thought I knew how to use kermit, but no matter what I do, the file will never work as an executable on the VAX. It always complains about a corrupt descriptor block and it comes up too long. The file is exactly 2048 bytes long and when I send it it comes up as 5/6 blocks with DIR/SIZE=ALL. That is one block too many, isn't it? The funny thing is, when I do a round trip with kermit PC -put-> VAX -get-> PC, I get two identical files on the PC. But when I do VAX -get-> PC -put-> VAX of a working .EXE file on the VAX, I end up with a broken copy (same error.) So, what can I do? I have SET FILE TYPE BINARY on both sides. I'm so sorry for bothering you with my VMS ignorance, I greatly appreciate your patience and help. regards -Gunther -- Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow(a)regenstrief.org Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care Adjunct Assistant Professor Indiana University School of Medicine tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org

23 years, 6 months

4
4
0 0

PDP-11 memory question

by tom＠sba.miami.edu

I have a PDP 11/23 (M8186 CPU with floating point and MMU options) in a 4 slot BA11-MA box that at some point in its life was an 11/03. It had an M8044-DF 32k memory module, which I'm trying to replace with a 128k M8059-KJ. The system works fine with the 32k module, but won't do anything with the 128k module. I'm not familiar with PDP-11's, but it seems like my backplane is only 18-bit, while the new memory module is 22-bit. I've also read that the M8186 board is only 22-bit compatible after revision C. I can't find any mark on the board showing what revision it is. Is there another way to tell? Also, is possible to modify the 18-bit bus and make it 22-bit, or maybe by swapping out the backplane? I also noticed that on some used PDP-11 web sites that the BA11-M sells for much more than the BA11-S, which I thought had 5 more slots. Is there some reason for this? Thanks, Tom

23 years, 6 months

3
2
0 0

Megabyte vs Mebibyte (was Re: Language and English)

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Eric Chomko [mailto:vze2wsvr@verizon.net] > > It's especially egregious, because even IBM, who use > 1024000 for Megabyte > > for disks, uses 1048576 for memory. Thus, an IBM megabyte > of disk storage > > will not hold the content of an IBM megabyte of memory! > Seems like you have lots of energy on this Fred. 1000 1K > blocks. Is that a > reason > to fly off the handle? Well, you're right that he's probably a little too sensitive on this, but it is a stupid way to count a megabyte -- not even self-consistent. :) Personally I prefer the 1024*1024 method. It makes the most sense to me. Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

23 years, 6 months

1
0
0 0

Ultirix for Vaxstation 4000/90?

by wlewis＠mailbag.com

I'm probably going to pickup one of these in the near future, and while I run VMS on my 4000/VLC, I would like to to run a *nix on on this one. Since NetBSD and company don't have a working X server, that limits things a bit. Anyone have a copy they'd be willing to sell? Thanks, William

23 years, 6 months

2
1
0 0

Crescent wrenches (was: Nomenclature (was: NEXT Color Printer find

by DAW＠yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu

I can't wait to get up to the in-laws vacation house in central VT to do some riding!!! --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 ! -----Original Message----- ! From: Lawrence Walker [mailto:lgwalker@mts.net] ! Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 4:36 PM ! To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org ! Subject: Re: Crescent wrenches (was: Nomenclature (was: NEXT Color ! Printer find ! ! ! Well where I'm living now is prime snowmobile territory. ! They're as obligatory ! as pick-up trucks and more common than motorcycles. When I ! grew up out ! here in the 40's the multi-passenger ones were called ! "Bombadeers" from ! the name of the company who made them, Bombardier, and who later ! introduced "Ski-Doos" the motorcycle of snowmobiles. I was ! surprised to find ! when I returned that locals still call the larger models Bombadeers. ! ! Lawrence ! ! > Whoa, can't let that one by: we know what a snowmobile is ! up here (c'mon, ! > fellow Canucks, back me up on this one!); mind you, if you ! asked ME what ! > a snowmobile is, I would indeed look at ya kind of funny ! (oops, funnily, for the ! > language police), since apparently YOU don't know what it ! is or you wouldn't be ! > asking... ! > ! > But a snow sled??? Who calls it that? Sounds like the ! SkiDoo trailer. ! > ! > Anyway, one of us invented the thing, so we can call it ! what we like! ! > ! > So there! ! > ! > :) ! > ! > -----------------Original Message------------------ ! > From: Roger Merchberger <zmerch(a)30below.com> ! > ! > [snippage] ! > ! > [more snippage (pronounced snippahdge up here, not snippedge :)] ! > ! > And as it's winter, and we *finally* have snow here, talk ! to some Western ! > Ontario Canadians and ask them what a "snowmobile" or "snow ! sled" is - ! > they'll most likely look at you funny, at least for a few ! seconds until it sinks ! > in. They go "skidooing" in the wintertime. ! > ! > ! ! ! ! Reply to: ! lgwalker(a)mts.net !

23 years, 6 months

1
0
0 0

More worthless crap posted not worth reading...RE: Language a nd English

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Sellam Ismail [mailto:foo@siconic.com] > On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Christopher Smith wrote: > > > Well, if you use the "modern" definition of poetry, sure > they are. ;) > > ... and given the "modern" definition of art, the people who paint > > lines down the middle of the street are "artists." According to the > > "modern" definition of music, one can talk over top of some [snip] > It's a good thing this metaphor does not extend to "Modern > Programmers". > We'd all be out of work. Ahh -- but it does. Have you seen the latest stock of MS "certified" monkeys? Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

23 years, 6 months

3
2
0 0

Megabyte vs Mebibyte (was Re: Language and English)

by msell＠ontimesupport.com

The guys on the Linux Kernel Mailing List are going wacko over this. Apparently somebody wanted to change all of the definitions of MB and GB, etc, etc, to use powers of ten, rather than the traditional binary notations. That really set off a firestorm of discussions.... - Matt At 03:49 PM 1/4/2002 -0500, you wrote: >! From: Sellam Ismail [mailto:foo@siconic.com] >...... >! They should coin a new term for a fake Megabyte (i.e. >! something other than 1024 ^ 2). Call it a "Maybebyte". >! >! That wasn't funny. >! >! Sellam Ismail > >I thought it was. Or am I that weird? > > >--- David A Woyciesjes >--- C & IS Support Specialist >--- Yale University Press >--- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu >--- (203) 432-0953 >--- ICQ # - 905818 Matthew Sell Programmer On Time Support, Inc. www.ontimesupport.com (281) 296-6066 Join the Metrology Software discussion group METLIST! http://www.ontimesupport.com/cgi-bin/mojo/mojo.cgi "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er...

23 years, 6 months

1
0
0 0

FreeVMS

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Pat Finnegan [mailto:pat@purdueriots.com] > On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Merle K. Peirce wrote: > > > If it doesn't have wheels, it isn't really a computer. > Actually if i wanted to get a new tower case, i COULD get a tower case > with casters already attached for about $300 new.... but i > like to save > money for other things.......... I would add that a real computer must have a console monitor in firmware, and have the option of attaching an independent single device (as in a serial terminal) to use for a console. KVM switches don't count, of course ;) Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

23 years, 6 months

3
2
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Crescent wrenches (was: Nomenclature (was: NEXT Color Printer find

by mythtech＠Mac.com

>I don't know what they're teaching kids these days, but in the time period >for which this list is relevant, mechanics did/do indeed refer to any >adjustable wrench of that particular design as a "Crescent Wrench". They >do NOT use the term "Crescent Wrench" to refer to any other style of >adjustable wrench, and would consider THAT misuse as comparable to >referring to a box-end wrench as a "socket". At least around here, they are teaching that it is an Adjustable Wrench, and specifically teaching that it is NOT a Crescent wrench. I also am personally unaware of ANYONE that professionally works with tools like these (and that means, NOT a person that repairs computers for a living and happens to have one for the rare occasions it is needed, but rather people that are in construction, or automotive repair, or similar), and calls it a Crescent wrench. At least as far as everyone I know, and what I learned in school (theater set construction, and the fire academy, and what I have found from friends that went to VoTech schools), the only people that call it a Crescent wrench are snickered at behind their backs because they are a "layman". That doesn't mean I think it is wrong to call it a crescent wrech (I still do sometimes as that was what I originally knew it as), they just specifically teach here NOT to call it that. But that is just around here, and like all language terms, change dramatically with region (go to a restaurant around here and order "pop" and you will get a funny look... do it in the midwest, and they will know exactly what you want). Also, flip open any tool catalog you want, you won't see a generic adjustable wrench listed as a Crescent Wrench. Flip open a electronics parts catalog, and you *might* see the push on, D shapey, "Centronics" connector (regardless of number of pins), listed as a "Centronics". Mind you, that does NOT make it correct, just that at least you can find it listed that way. Of course, with all this, I am NOT saying that the connectors should be called Centronics. I personally don't care what they are called. Centronics, Blue Ribbon, or Susan... as long as I know what the person is talking about, then the term did its job, it conveyed meaning... and isn't that really the point to language in the first place? >Calling the connector in question an "Amphenol connector" (regardless of >who made that particular one) would, indeed be like using the >common term "Crescent Wrench" when referring to an "adjustable >wrench" (rather a vague, ambiguous name for it!) But the term arguers will complain about calling it an Amphenol just as much I am sure. >But calling it a "Centronics connector", particularly when dealing with >sizes other than 36, would be like calling the same wrench a "Ford >wrench". Agreed, but it still happens (albeit, wrongly) >In the original post that was objected to, the writer referred to >"Centronics Ports". THAT was wrong. If he were to have said "ports with >50 pin centronics connectors", then it would be a trivial misuse, and >everyone would know what he meant (although some would DOUBT whether what >he was seeing was correct -"are you sure they're 50s?"). BUT, a >"Centronics PORT" means a parallel printer port as its primary and only >meaning, and the ports in question were obviously not that. Again, agreed. >One of the old classics of email "humor" mentions in passing a "Craftsman >10mm crescent wrench". Calling a wrench made by Craftsman a "Crescent" is >what you are talking about. Since the dimensions of such wrenches were >the LENGTH of the wrench, and Crescent didn't at that time label any of >theirs in metric units, the "10mm" is just weird. LOL >In my garage, we had a box with a 150mm Crescent WANNABE, "rubber nails" >(steel nails for nailing rubber weatherstripping), spotted paint (sold in >a spray can by GM for repairing trunks), etc. for hazing the new parts >runners. And the all time favorite, ask for the 8/16th socket. I think maybe I am the only one that saw the inherent humor and irony in arguing about calling things by their correct name, and not their common name, and using a Crescent wrench as an example of how TO call items by their correct name. <sigh> humor is wasted... -chris <http://www.mythtech.net>

23 years, 6 months

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NCD 88k Boot monitor

by darek-ss＠wp.pl

Hi, I've got recently 2 old, but very good NCD Xstations 88k & 88kP6 based on Motorola 88100 processor. They are looking great, much better than what they are selling now :-) But unfortunately they are without Boot Manager EPROMS ... Does anyone could help me and tell where I can find such EPROM or just the image file which I can use to program one ? As far as I know BM from HMX & HMXPro doesn't work because it is made for R4xxx processor. Darek ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Zapro? znajomych na czata! Wy?lij SMSa z nowego czata WP! Czat.wp.pl - Jedyny czat z ludzk? twarz? < http://czat.wp.pl >

23 years, 6 months

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Free to good home - 2 obscure computers

by pcw＠mesanet.com

These are the Viking AVAB (Swedish) computers I asked about before Obscure enough that no one seems to know anything about them... has the following cards: Western Digital MCP-1600 based CPU (maybe Pascal pcode machine) Western Digital FDC Western Digital 4Serial + Parallel I/O card 2X AVAB 32K battery backed SRAM cards Couple of odd AVAB I/O cards Proprietary bus, ~8"x10" cards -- Rack mount enclosure Were used for theater lighting system 1 system has 2x3.5" (720k ?) floppy drives a 1 8" drive (narrow Tandon) other system has 2x3.5" (720k?) drives Free for pickup in SF bay area (otherwise out they go) Peter Wallace

23 years, 6 months

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Language and English

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: r. 'bear' stricklin [mailto:red@bears.org] > At the SCM prompt, type, "SHOW BOOT." > > At the SCM prompt, type, "SHOW BOOT". > > Which one is correct? Personally, I always try to move punctuation away from quoted commands, and the like. Otherwise I use the normal convention of leaving it inside the quotes. So both are "correct," but the second is what I would do to prevent confusion in this case. Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

23 years, 6 months

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Language and English

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Sellam Ismail [mailto:foo@siconic.com] > Let's be accurate here. cummings was a poet. The people > posting without > proper grammar and punctuation are not. Well, if you use the "modern" definition of poetry, sure they are. ;) ... and given the "modern" definition of art, the people who paint lines down the middle of the street are "artists." According to the "modern" definition of music, one can talk over top of some drum lines from Judas Priest's first album and be a wonderful "musician." Things are so much simpler now. Etc, etc. :) Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

23 years, 6 months

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RFD: SPAM

by Innfogra＠aol.com

In a message dated 1/4/02 12:10:24 PM Pacific Standard Time, foo(a)siconic.com writes: > I've said this repeatedly. I use this account EXCLUSIVELY for receiving > list traffic and it has NEVER received any spam outside of the occasional > bullcrap that gets posted to the list directly. > > And no, I don't have any filtering turned on. > I have to agree. I also use this email address for the CCMP list only. I get no spam on it except the very occasional one that is posted to the list directly. This list does not lead to increased spam. It is very well maintained. Paxton Astoria, OR

23 years, 6 months

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FreeVMS

by msell＠ontimesupport.com

Actually you would have to add 900 lbs. of lead, and include a 1000 watt space heater..... - Matt >I guess then, if i went to the store and mounted casters on my Sun >SparcStation 1, it'd be a 'real computer'. Of course if nothing else, >it'd be a 'really slow computer' that rolls faster than the framebuffer >can scroll text. (hehe) > > > Regards, > > > > Chris > > > > > > Christopher Smith, Perl Developer > > Amdocs - Champaign, IL > > > > /usr/bin/perl -e ' > > print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); > > ' > > > > Matthew Sell Programmer On Time Support, Inc. www.ontimesupport.com (281) 296-6066 Join the Metrology Software discussion group METLIST! http://www.ontimesupport.com/cgi-bin/mojo/mojo.cgi "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er...

23 years, 6 months

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Language and English

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Ian Koller [mailto:vze2mnvr@verizon.net] > > English is a Germanic language, > That was my mistake. I have now learned something new, or > a misconception of mine has now been corrected. I thank you, > it will not be forgotten. Actually, to step in here, I'm certain that it depends on which "English" you're talking about. Of course old English and the original Anglo (Anglish?) languages that may have preceded it were Germanic. Modern English has been influenced as much by Latin as by the original English, IMO. > Now I will have to ponder why there are so many similarities > between French and Italian words and their English counterparts, > while to me the German language seems so much different. ... and there's your answer. Compare German to old English and you'd be surprised -- at least as surprised as you'd be to compare English to Spanish today. Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

23 years, 6 months

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Language and English

by mythtech＠Mac.com

> but I did learn that >a period at the end of a sentence is followed by two spaces, for example. This is actually a now outdated custom. I think it was originally there as old type presses has a small space character, so two were needed to make decent enough room to tell a sentence ended. I think it carried over to original typwriters, and then into early word processing... but now, it is outdated, and no longer taught (at least not by newer typing teachers... I bet the nuns at my wife's old highschool still teach two spaces). Of course, it could also have been dropped out of laziness, and just changed out of force from the new generation just not bothering with a 2nd space. (I think that is why standard office attire has relaxed so much too... new generation of bosses that don't take as much pride in their work appearance... not that I am one to talk, since I always wear jeans and a shirt to work except for days I have to meet with clients) >If you insist on writing in a style reminiscent of E. E. Cummings poetry Ugh.. try reading William Faulkner (I am pretty sure that is who it was)... he has 3 page run on sentences... worst reading my poor dyslexic brain ever had to deal with. -chris <http://www.mythtech.net>

23 years, 6 months

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chris smith

by Golemancd＠aol.com

chris writing an idea about a hobby is not an art form. that is my point. you only need precision when you need it. like standing in a karate stance when there is no one to fight. you get in the stance when needed. same with precision. pick your spots. has no one ever heard of that. pick the battles you fight. you dont have to fight all of them; just the ones that matter. same with percision. if someone says good morning and you dont understand them. you may inquired as to what they said. but after that one inquiry if it is not clear what they said , it really doesnt matter because what they may have been saying wasnt important enough to grill them for an hour. some one said the post didnt warrant a response. he was correct. i was just talking about an idea. thats it. it was not important. joee

23 years, 6 months

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OS/2 1.3 EE

by jwbirdsa＠picarefy.com

Does anybody have a copy of this? I have MS OS/2 1.3, and I have TCP/IP for OS/2 1.3 EE, but they don't work together. I'd love to have EE so I can put TCP/IP on it and install the lot on a 286. Maybe I can dig up a web server for it. :) Thanks! --James B.

23 years, 6 months

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Crescent wrenches (was: Nomenclature (was: NEXT Color Printer find

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> > From: Douglas Quebbeman <dhquebbeman(a)theestopinalgroup.com> > > > Heh. Mexican speed wrench... > > Funny, I've always heard it referred to as a *Kentucky* speed > wrench ;>) I like that even better! But down yonder, they have to be carefull with them, after all, they *really* hurt when they're dropped on bare feet... ;) -dq

23 years, 6 months

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chris smith

by DAW＠yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu

! From: Richard Erlacher [mailto:edick@idcomm.com] ! ...... ! ! Microsoft Outlook and Outlook Express have a setting which ! will limit the ! width of lines that it transmits and receives. While it lets ! you type to ! the width of your display, it wraps lines by inserting "> " ! or whatever else ! you choose, at the left margin of quoted received text, and ! <crlf> at the ! limits you set. After a few iterations, quoted text becomes ! quite difficult ! to read, and more so if it's formatted both manually and ! automatically. Yep, I have to manually tweak messages as I reply to them (see below)... I must be doing okay, though. No one has yelled at me yet... ! > ! > I am aware, and I do try to avoid it. As I've said in a ! private mail to ! someone, ! > my company believes that everyone should use microshaft outhouse for ! email. I'm ! > really lucky to have gotten it to send messages in ASCII :/ ! Never mind ! wrapping ! > the lines. So I do it by hand, when I remember and when ! I'm not rushed. ! > ! > Regards, ! > ! > Chris --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818

23 years, 6 months

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chris smith

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Richard Erlacher [mailto:edick@idcomm.com] > Microsoft Outlook and Outlook Express have a setting which > will limit the > width of lines that it transmits and receives. While it lets News to me. I'll see if I can find it. Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

23 years, 6 months

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DEC bus driver/receiver chips (really VT78 docs)

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jan 4, 1:07, Carlini, Antonio wrote: > Actually I only know of one other in the UK, > but I expect there are a few more lurking in > dark corners. I have a VT78. Is that the one you're thinking of? -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

23 years, 6 months

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Language and English

by DAW＠yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu

Hmmm.. okay. Well, my Outlook2001 (sorry, no choice at work) must've read it correctly, and not as an attachment... --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 ! -----Original Message----- ! From: Russ Blakeman [mailto:rhblakeman@kih.net] ! Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 1:03 PM ! To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org ! Subject: RE: Language and English ! ! ! The one that he had attached to his messages, ATTxxxx.DAT - it's a PGP ! signature from his last email. ! ! -----Original Message----- ! From: owner-classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org ! [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of David Woyciesjes ! Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 11:50 AM ! To: 'classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org'; 'Richard Erlacher' ! Subject: RE: Language and English ! ! ! ! From: Richard Erlacher ! ! ! ! It's never safe to open an attachment to an otherwise ! undefined email. ! ! ! ! I'd suspect only two or three on this list will be foolish ! ! enough to open ! ! this one. ! ! ! ! Dick ! ! Huh? What attachment? ! ! --- David A Woyciesjes ! --- C & IS Support Specialist ! --- Yale University Press ! --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu ! --- (203) 432-0953 ! --- ICQ # - 905818 !

23 years, 6 months

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chris smith

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Ian Koller [mailto:vze2mnvr@verizon.net] > Are you aware that your messages seem to have no > carriage returns and don't wrap in some message > viewers? Please don't take this as a complaint, > but this makes it more difficult to read, as I > have to scroll horizontally outside the normal > message viewing area. And it seems your messages > are worth reading as they contain some thoughtful > comment. I am aware, and I do try to avoid it. As I've said in a private mail to someone, my company believes that everyone should use microshaft outhouse for email. I'm really lucky to have gotten it to send messages in ASCII :/ Never mind wrapping the lines. So I do it by hand, when I remember and when I'm not rushed. Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

23 years, 6 months

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Crescent wrenches (was: Nomenclature (was: NEXT Color Printer find

by DAW＠yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu

! From: Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) [mailto:cisin@xenosoft.com] ! ! ! On Tue, 1 Jan 2002, Chris wrote: ! > I know the facts, and I know exactly why it carries that ! > name (much like ! ! It's a nice analogy, but only partially relevant for this particular ! issue. ! I don't know what they're teaching kids these days, but in ! the time period ! for which this list is relevant, mechanics did/do indeed refer to any ! adjustable wrench of that particular design as a "Crescent ! Wrench". They ! do NOT use the term "Crescent Wrench" to refer to any other style of ! adjustable wrench, and would consider THAT misuse as comparable to ! referring to a box-end wrench as a "socket". Maybe I'm dating myself, or just sounding stupid, but with my basic hands-on mechanic experience, I always called them 'adjustable' wrenches, because that's what they did. They adjusted to the size you nedd. Never quite realized what exactly a Cresent wrench was... --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818

23 years, 6 months

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Crescent wrenches (was: Nomenclature (was: NEXT Color Printer find

by DAW＠yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu

Well, a quick explanation of a frost heave... (from CT :-) Water seeps through a crack in the road, and gets trapped underneath. The water then freezes, and expands, which "heaves" the asphalt above it up into a bump. Whats worse is when the ice underneath melts, but the asphalt doesn't come back into shape quick enough. A vehicle hits the bump, and busts the bubble that's left. Now you have a pot-hole... --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 ! -----Original Message----- ! From: Ian Koller ! ! I'm here in snowed out South Eastern US and I know ! about "black ice" and "Bridge Freezes Before Roadway" ! but what are "Frost Heaves"? ! ! I could have done without this snow. I needed to make ! a trip down to GA and possibly FLA that has to be delayed. ! ! ! ! ! Michael Nadeau wrote: ! > ! > Wait til they find out about frost heaves. ! > ! > > > ! > > > Odd that you should mention this ... ! > > > ! > > > As they've reccently had snow in the southern U.S, ! where that's a ! > noteable ! > > > and rare event, youngsters interviewed DO refer to the ! thing as a "snow" ! > > > sled, apparently because snow is such a rarity. ! > > ! > > HA... And they are *just* learning about the phenomenon ! known as "black ! > ice". ! > > :-D ! > > ! > > Bryan ! > > ! > > ! > > > ! > > > Dick ! > > > ! > > > ----- Original Message ----- ! > > > From: "Matt London" <classiccmp(a)knm.yi.org> ! > > > To: "'ClassicComputers'" <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> ! > > > Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 6:10 AM ! > > > Subject: Re: Crescent wrenches (was: Nomenclature (was: ! NEXT Color ! > Printer ! > > > find ! > > > ! > > > ! > > > > Hi, ! > > > > ! > > > > > Whoa, can't let that one by: we know what a ! snowmobile is up here ! > > > (c'mon, ! > > > > > fellow Canucks, back me up on this one!); mind you, ! if you asked ME ! > what ! > > ! > > Yes, as a fellow Canuck, I know what a snowmobile is... ! In the town of ! > 9,500 ! > > where I grew up, as soon as there was 3 to 6 cm of snow, ! everyone would be ! > > on their skidoo's. ! > > ! > > ! > > > > > a snowmobile is, I would indeed look at ya kind of ! funny (oops, ! > funnily, ! > > > for ! > > > > > the language police), since apparently YOU don't ! know what it is or ! > you ! > > > > > wouldn't be asking... ! > > > > > ! > > > > > But a snow sled??? Who calls it that? Sounds like the SkiDoo ! > trailer. ! > > > > > ! > > > > > Anyway, one of us invented the thing, so we can ! call it what we ! > like! ! > > > > ! > > > > Just a second! What's this I see... ! > > > > From: M H Stein <mhstein(a)usa.net> ! > > > > A Canuck wuth a usa.net email address? Something ! screwy there if you ! > ask ! > > > > me, but then again I'm one of those dodgy brits :&) ! > > > > ! > > > > -- Matt ! > > !

23 years, 6 months

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FreeVMS

by DAW＠yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu

! From: Matthew Sell [mailto:msell@ontimesupport.com] ! ! David, ! ! ! Yeah - messed up again. I really meant to say "NetBSD", and ! not "FreeBSD" all the while. ! ! Maybe FreeBSD would be good for my "Unibus VAX 4000" ? ! ! : ) ! ! ! - Matt Yeah, it should be about the right speed.... --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818

23 years, 6 months

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chris smith

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Golemancd(a)aol.com [mailto:Golemancd@aol.com] > has no one ever heard of that. > pick the battles you fight. Of course. Is it not from Sun Tsu's "The Art of War?" ... but I'd hardly call typing a war. :) If it is, then it's likely that you'll want to "win" it if you plan to work with computers. > some one said the post didnt warrant a response. > he was correct. i was just talking about an idea. > thats it. it was not important. You must believe what you say is of some import, otherwise, why bother to post anything? People are just complaining that while you seem to care enough about what you're saying to post it, you don't seem to care enough to allow them to understand it. The only word of caution I would give is that this is a very "hands-on" (technical, if you prefer the term) list. If you speak about things without being detailed enough for everyone to comprehend, it may annoy several people. (Myself included, honestly. :) Let me give the example of your post, which said, essentially: "Why do you need a bigger network?" You might have explained why you thought that the subjects current network was big enough, or you might have asked specific questions in order to get a good idea of its size. The question -- especially being the entire content of the post -- is pretty vague. :) On top of that it was abbreviated. ;) How are we ever supposed to hold a conversation with you that way? I'll also say that I might expect a one-sentence post if it were, for instance, a very direct answer to a technical question. On the other hand, a one-sentence post which asks such a broad question about a broad topic is almost definitely not giving complete expression to the question. (Or it's philosophical, and not expecting an answer -- in which case, why post?) We can't see you, and we don't know you yet, so we have no idea whether (or how) we can draw any inferences from the question. In other words, it's not a matter of being textbook correct, but making yourself understood. (Wow, am I that long-winded?) Regards, Chris, who isn't even awake yet -- watch out after lunch Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

23 years, 6 months

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Language and English

by meltlet＠fastmail.fm

> a period at the end of a sentence is followed by two spaces, for example. Ok, if we're going to be anal here, and criticise "English" then in English it's not a period, it's a full stop. *ducks to avoid flames ;D* Alex -- melt meltlet(a)fastmail.fm

23 years, 6 months

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Language and English

by DAW＠yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu

! From: Richard Erlacher ! ! It's never safe to open an attachment to an otherwise undefined email. ! ! I'd suspect only two or three on this list will be foolish ! enough to open ! this one. ! ! Dick Huh? What attachment? --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818

23 years, 6 months

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Way OT: Frost Heaves (was RE: Crescent wrenches (was: Nomencl atur e (was: NEXT Color Printer find

by DAW＠yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu

Aww geez, stretching things a bit here, aren't you? ;-) TGIF.... --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 ! -----Original Message----- ! From: Feldman, Robert [mailto:Robert_Feldman@jdedwards.com] ! ! Since ee cummings had been disparaged here, one could ! interpret the term as ! critical of a certain New England poet ;) ! ! -----Original Message----- ! From: David Woyciesjes [mailto:DAW@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu] ! ! ! Well, a quick explanation of a frost heave... (from CT :-) ! ! Water seeps through a crack in the road, and gets trapped ! underneath. The water then freezes, and expands, which ! "heaves" the asphalt ! above it up into a bump. ! Whats worse is when the ice underneath melts, but the asphalt ! doesn't come back into shape quick enough. A vehicle hits the ! bump, and ! busts the bubble that's left. Now you have a pot-hole... ! ! --- David A Woyciesjes ! ! ! -----Original Message----- ! ! From: Ian Koller ! ! ! ! I'm here in snowed out South Eastern US and I know ! ! about "black ice" and "Bridge Freezes Before Roadway" ! ! but what are "Frost Heaves"? ! <snip> !

23 years, 6 months

1
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FreeVMS

by msell＠ontimesupport.com

David, Yeah - messed up again. I really meant to say "NetBSD", and not "FreeBSD" all the while. Maybe FreeBSD would be good for my "Unibus VAX 4000" ? : ) - Matt At 12:43 PM 1/4/2002 -0500, you wrote: >! -----Original Message----- >! From: Matthew Sell >! >! From what I understand of the Linux kernel, it uses two, and >! the i386 has >! three modes of operation. >! >! Don't forget that FreeBSD already runs on the VAX, and FreeVMS (in my >! project concept) would be an extension and implementation of >! the existing >! FreeBSD kernel so that it "looks and feels" like VMS. >! >! I also wanted this implementation of FreeBSD to use native >! DEC filesystems >! and operate classic DEC hardware. > > Poking around through NetBSD also would probably be helpful. That >runs on 30+ architectures, and FreeBSD & NetBSD often use the same source >code for drivers too... > >--- David A Woyciesjes >--- C & IS Support Specialist >--- Yale University Press >--- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu >--- (203) 432-0953 >--- ICQ # - 905818 Matthew Sell Programmer On Time Support, Inc. www.ontimesupport.com (281) 296-6066 Join the Metrology Software discussion group METLIST! http://www.ontimesupport.com/cgi-bin/mojo/mojo.cgi "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er...

23 years, 6 months

1
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FreeVMS

by DAW＠yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu

! -----Original Message----- ! From: Matthew Sell ! ! From what I understand of the Linux kernel, it uses two, and ! the i386 has ! three modes of operation. ! ! Don't forget that FreeBSD already runs on the VAX, and FreeVMS (in my ! project concept) would be an extension and implementation of ! the existing ! FreeBSD kernel so that it "looks and feels" like VMS. ! ! I also wanted this implementation of FreeBSD to use native ! DEC filesystems ! and operate classic DEC hardware. Poking around through NetBSD also would probably be helpful. That runs on 30+ architectures, and FreeBSD & NetBSD often use the same source code for drivers too... --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818

23 years, 6 months

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Way OT: Frost Heaves (was RE: Crescent wrenches (was: Nomenclatur e (was: NEXT Color Printer find

by Robert_Feldman＠jdedwards.com

Since ee cummings had been disparaged here, one could interpret the term as critical of a certain New England poet ;) -----Original Message----- From: David Woyciesjes [mailto:DAW@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu] Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 11:20 AM To: 'classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org'; Michael Nadeau; 'Ian Koller' Subject: RE: Crescent wrenches (was: Nomenclature (was: NEXT Color Printer find Well, a quick explanation of a frost heave... (from CT :-) Water seeps through a crack in the road, and gets trapped underneath. The water then freezes, and expands, which "heaves" the asphalt above it up into a bump. Whats worse is when the ice underneath melts, but the asphalt doesn't come back into shape quick enough. A vehicle hits the bump, and busts the bubble that's left. Now you have a pot-hole... --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 ! -----Original Message----- ! From: Ian Koller ! ! I'm here in snowed out South Eastern US and I know ! about "black ice" and "Bridge Freezes Before Roadway" ! but what are "Frost Heaves"? <snip>

23 years, 6 months

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OT: A different view of a beloved hobby

by jarkko.teppo＠er-grp.com

>From the excellent news source known as The Reg : http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/30/23549.html -- jht

23 years, 6 months

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Man alive, I just can't resist

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Golemancd(a)aol.com [mailto:Golemancd@aol.com] > i look at the mail and see an ad for something and i know > im not interested , so i dont worry about which store > is sending this junk to me. [trash can time] Actually, depending on the annoyance factor I do check the name of the store, and adjust my shopping preferences accordingly (favoring other stores, or if it's junk email, not dealing with the company at all). Usually, though, it just gets ignored, you're right. Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

23 years, 6 months

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Movie making and distributed robotics (Was: Language and English )

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Golemancd(a)aol.com [mailto:Golemancd@aol.com] > i collect any computer i can get my hands on. You must have lots of room. I'm getting to the point where I have to refuse to take peesees in some cases (err -- sometimes, regardless of the case. ;). > i am developing an operating system and a multimedia program > to create movies. Are we talking about video editing, rendering, animation, SuperDuperMegaMultiCompoundApp, or what? > i use a newer computer to produce records. > i am also working out, as i was talking about > in the original thread that got off track, a distributed > os to control robots and also a custom computer > to do the same. Now, I can't particularly think of a situation in robotics that would require a distributed O/S. Usually it's general-purpose embedded systems at a maximum. What are you up to here? Or is it just distributed for cool factor? (Nothing wrong with that...) This part is likely to even be on topic ;) Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

23 years, 6 months

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Wanted: Tiger Learning Computer

by vcf＠vintage.org

I'm wanting to buy a Tiger Learning Computer from anyone who may have one they don't want. This was the kid computer released during Christmas of 1996 but only sold in limited numbers in the JC Penney 1996 Christmas catalog. It was Apple ][ compatible--it basically had enhanced Apple //e ROMs and used Flash ROM cards as an emulated Disk ][ drive. It had Appleworks built-in. Very nifty. I'm also open to trades. Any got one? This is my biggest want currently. :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *

23 years, 6 months

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Crescent wrenches (was: Nomenclature (was: NEXT Color Printer find

by DAW＠yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu

! From: Lawrence Walker [mailto:lgwalker@mts.net] ! ! And then there is "Leatherman" the modern eqivalent of the ! "Swiss Army Knife" of which there is no eqivalent I know ! qualitywise altho the quality is declining as demand increases. ! ! Lawrence Well, about 3 years ago, I got the Buck Knives Co. version of the Leatherman, called the "BuckTool". (Duh, real creative name there...) http://www.buckknives.com/products/details.php?ID=64 Still strong, hasn't loosened up at all. Great thing to have around on your belt. Especially for emergency work on computers... The quality of that is at least as good as the Leatherman. IMHO the design, on the other hand, is definitely better. Especially when it is opend to the 'pliers' position... --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818

23 years, 6 months

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Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainful employment

by Golemancd＠aol.com

does anyone have anything to say about computers?

23 years, 6 months

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Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainful employment

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Golemancd(a)aol.com [mailto:Golemancd@aol.com] > does anyone have anything to say about computers? Yes. They're generally digital these days, are they not? Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

23 years, 6 months

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11/53 - Qbus backplane question

by Adrian.Graham＠corporatemicrosystems.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Gooijen H [mailto:GOOI@oce.nl] > Sent: 04 January 2002 08:42 > To: 'classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org' > Subject: 11/53 - Qbus backplane question > > > I got in the 11/53 running Micro/RSX. > > The 11/53 has an H9278-A backplane. According to > Megan's fieldguide the first 3 slots are Q22/CD > and the last 5 slots are Q22. > What does that mean? If I remember rightly the CD slots have grant continuity, which means you can have half height boards in position 1/2 without needing grant continuity cards in position 3/4 to carry signals over to the next slot. Can't rememember the M code for the GC card ATM; my VAXen are 10 minutes away from here. -- Adrian Graham, Corporate Microsystems Ltd e: adrian.graham(a)corporatemicrosystems.com w: www.corporatemicrosystems.com w2: www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Online Computer Museum)

23 years, 6 months

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Ultrix 4.4 and VaxStation 3100

by DAW＠yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu

Might be some confusion, so here's how the conversation went, at least the way I saw it..... (edited for ease of reading...) > (assuming X11 worked on the Vaxstation 3100 > under Ultrix - I assume it would.) > > ! AFAIK the SPX graphics was not supported, only the ! mono and GPX framebuffers. ! ! Jochen Kunz > So there is some chance of NetBSD/Xwindows running on my > b&w 3100m38? > > David A Woyciesjes ! From: Clint Wolff (VAX collector) ! ! The last I heard, NetBSD didn't support any sort of ! graphics console. Not even as a text only console... ! ! Clint > So, the monitor and keyboard hooked directly to > the back of the VAXStation > 3100 M38 is not a text only console? What kind of console > is it then? > > David A Woyciesjes ! From: Alex White ! ! It could either be mono, or 4- or 8-plane graphics IIRC. ! Designed to run ! DECwindows, there have apparently been two ports of X11 to it under ! NetBSD - see the thread called "x-server and security.tgz for NetBSD ! 1.5" at http://mail-index.netbsd.org/port-vax/2000/11/ for the rough ! info - if you know any more please tell us... That's what I thought. Well, what I was trying to say, and maybe not clearly, is my VAXStation has a black & white graphics. It's currently running NetBSD 1.5 right now, text only, no X11. I have seen it run DECWindows. That was before work sold it to me and wiped the drives... Grrr... About all I know at the moment, but hopefully soon I'll have time to contribute to the effort of creating an XServer for this puppy. :-) That's where my previous comment came from, the confusion of what kind of console is on it... --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818

23 years, 6 months

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Any interest in 5.25 floppy drives or small scsi drives?

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

I've got some orders for some goodies and there's still some things left. Tell me what you want so I can see if I can accomodate you. -- Antique Computer Virtual Museum www.nothingtodo.org

23 years, 6 months

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Some pointers needed on a 11/70

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jan 2, 21:08, <quapla(a)xs4all.nl> wrote: > Besides some small mistakes (not all PS modules in place for the CPU, and > not having a powered memory box), we managed to get the machine partly > running, that is, the lights are reacting to the 2 knob settings, and some > data is displayed on the console. > > However, when depositing some data at address 1000, nothing happens, and > the parity and/or address error light goes on. Same when trying to see > the contents of any (low) address. So, I have a few questions: I'm sure there must be people on the list who know more about 11/70s than I do, but since no-one else has replied yet... Is the memory powered up and connected? At the right address (you must have some memory in the lowest 28KW to start up)? Is the cache working? There are various things done by the power-up bootstrap diagnostic routines to set up the cache and memory system; and there are ways to disable cache, Unibus map, certain errors, etc, by poking bits into control registers. And I think you probably want to set the console Address Select Switch to CONS(ole) PHYS(ical). > - I have heard about a system address register which sets the size of > the memory, where is this address located? 17177760 is the "lower size register". Set it to the address of the last addressable block of 32 words (ie offset by 6 bits). There's an upper size register as well, "reserved for future use", read-only, reads as zeros, at 17177762. > - At the back of the memory box, there are somw switches and 4 thumbwheel > switches. What is their purpose? I assume to set the base address of the memory in the box, but never having set one up, I don't know. > - Is the ROM boot address still 177560? or must it be 17777560 on the 11/70? Well, it would be 18 bits, since it's on the Unibus, in an M9301-YC or equivalent. But 177560 (or 777560) is the address of the console serial line. The bootstrap is at 765000. I'm not sure if you need to set the top four bits as well, as if I recall correctly, the Unibus is mapped to the top of physical memory. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

23 years, 6 months

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PS/2 Model 70

by steven_j_robertson＠hotmail.com

> >Well, scratch the idea of OS/2; my CD has a big scratch in it and is >unreadable. >-- >Eric Dittman In some cases it's possible to remove the scratch by polishing the CD. I've taken badly scratched CD's and removed the scratches with a buffing wheel, jewelers rouge, and a little patience. Just be careful not too overheat the CD or it may warp. The ones that I've done came out paper thin but, were readable. SteveRob _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com

23 years, 6 months

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Hazing (was Re: Crescent wrenches ...)

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> On 04-Jan-02, Gordon C. Zaft wrote: > > At 10:04 PM 1/3/2002 -0800, Ron Hudson wrote: > > > >> A true navy story from my Navy days. > > > > When I was a Navy civil servant, every engineer who went out on > > his first ship qualification trial would get hazed. Usually it was being > > sent to get batteries for the sound-powered phones.... > > My favorite was always sending someone for a bucket of > steam....that or a snipe punch. Stud stretchers are popular with the contruction crowd... New pages to Congress are given important messages to give to Senator Cornpone... And to get this back on-topic, at IBM, new hires were sent to see Dr. Herman Hollerith to get the final answers on important questions. -dq

23 years, 6 months

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Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainful employment

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> ps -- i am not a warez dood - dont own a cell phone - and have never > instant messaged anyone I confess to having used TALK/NTALK/YTALK under Solaris once or twice... and in the old days, using SEND TTY under TOPS-10 seemed really cool... now I see it a bit differently. -old fogey

23 years, 6 months

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Compaq Deskpro286 - Documents or Help?

by tarsi＠binhost.com

Hi all geeks! I have two Compaq 286 machines that I am trying to put back together. Unfortunately, I'm having some issues reattaching the harddrives and floppy drives to the drive controller cards. I seem (stupidly) to have forgotten how they go when I unplugged them. I know, I know, it's dumb, but help a guy out anyway? :) I promise to be good the next time, honest. Anywho, if any of you have documentation that you can email to me, I would appreciate, or if you can explain how to reattach the cables from the harddrives and floppy drives to the card, I would most grateful. Configuration appears below. Personal email: tarsi(a)binhost.com Thanks, Tarsi --------------- Configuration: Compaq Deskpro286 Model 2550 Harddrive controller: WDC WD1002-WAH J1 is a 33 pin J2 is a 19 pin J3 is a 19 pin Floppy drive/Printer board, has one 33 pin floppy connector Standard(?) 5.25" floppy drive, 33 (34) pin cable. Seagate hard drive, one 19 pin cable, one 33 pin cable. My confusion is mostly whether J2 or J3 should be used with the harddrive, and what the difference is. Also, can I put dual harddrive in there? If so, how? Thanks a mil! -- ---------------------------------------------- Homepage: http://tarsi.binhost.com binHOST.com: http://www.binhost.com Forever Beyond: http://www.foreverbeyond.org ----------------------------------------------

23 years, 6 months

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Man alive, I just can't resist

by Golemancd＠aol.com

well glenn the statement was not meant to be confined to computers. most people prabably including you have a richer life that just working with computers. sure i program. i know when to be precise, and when i dont need to be. i'm sure you do to. i look at the mail and see an ad for something and i know im not interested , so i dont worry about which store is sending this junk to me. [trash can time] when i program i concentrate on being precise. whats so hard to understand about that. being a programmer you must be pretty good concepts. this is a simple one Joe

23 years, 6 months

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Toshiba T3200SX Question

by CLeyson＠aol.com

Just got myself a Toshiba T3200SX laptop. Reformatted the hard drive and put DOS 6.22 onto it. However, the CMOS backup battery has gone flat. Anybody know where the battery lives, and is it PCB mounted ? Best Regards Chris Leyson

23 years, 7 months

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Man alive, I just can't resist

by acme_ent＠bellsouth.net

> From: Golemancd(a)aol.com > This is becoming a pretty silly thread because there can be > understanding > without proper grammer ; if we are being technical here. Every computer I ever met would gag on the above statement ;>) > Sure there is > meaning, > u just dont understand it. Well, I've seen lots of COBOL and BASIC programs which fit this description, but that doesn't mean it's okay. > I get your point. I do use a lot of shorthand and because this is a > hobby > i dont focus very much on my grammer. If u see me post then dont read it. > That is all that i have to say about this matter. > > joee > > P.S i hope the grammer helps you understand this. I have no idea what your involvement with computers is, but I'm certain it doesn't involve programming . . . Glen 0/0

23 years, 7 months

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11/53 - Qbus backplane question

by Antonio.Carlini＠riverstonenet.com

Gooijen H wrote: >The 11/53 has an H9278-A backplane. According to >Megan's fieldguide the first 3 slots are Q22/CD >and the last 5 slots are Q22. >What does that mean? The slots each allow for four "fingers" on each card - a quad card uses all four and a dual card uses only two (there are some single cards too, but not many). The holes on the backplane slot for the fingers are labelled A,B,C,D from left to right from the side the cards plug into. Q22/CD slots have A/B wired as Q22 bus, C&D are just wired straight through. C/D are not used for Q-bus comms and are just for card-card communication. Q22/Q22 slots have Qbus on A&B and Qbus on C&D. It sounds like in your machine, the path followed by the Qbus is: slot-1: A/B slot-2: A/B slot-3: A/B slot-4: A/B slot-4: C/D slot-5: C/D slot-5: A/B slot-6: A/B etc. i.e. Qbus goes down A/B in slots 1,2,3,4 and then hops over to C/D on slot 4, drops vertically down to slot-5 C/D, moves back to slot-5 A/B ... repeat until you run out of slots. The manuals refer to this as a serpentine pattern. There is a diagram in some of the MicroVAX manuals on http://208.190.133.201/decimages/moremanuals.htm (I cannot remember exactly which ones but if you pick up the 630Z Owner's and Technical manuals, I'm 90% certain one of them has the diagram ... note that BA23 has 3 Q22/CD slots and BA123 has four Q22/CD slots ... the principle is the same though). The Q22/CD distinction matters in two cases that spring to mind. The first is that some Qbus signals need to be passed on to the next card correctly (interrupt and grant signals). An empty slot breaks the chain here. So if your first three slots have processor + memory and you put a TQK50 controller in slot 4 (A/B) and an RQDX3 in slot 5 (A/B), the chain is broken because slot 4 C/D and slot 5 C/D are empty - you need grant cards (or other Qbus cards) in there to let the RQDX3 work. Just to make this more fun, the RQDX3 will show up on the bus (it's CSRs are visible) it just won't work :-) The other reason it matters is that quad wide cards need to do the right thing depending on the kind of slot they are in. Most seem to arrive defaulted for a Q22/Q22 slot (which means they can go straight into a BA23/BA123 chassis with no additional jumpering etc). Putting one of these in a Q22/CD slot is usually no problem except that the card is passing on the C/D signals to the next card. This may or may not matter. For those cases where it does matter, cards provide a means of preventing this from happening. On the KDA50 there is a zero-ohm link (looks liek a resistor) that you remove. Of course, if you move a modified KDA50 from a Q22/CD slot to a Q22/Q22 slot you are in for some fun :-) Later series chassis (certainly the BA200 series, probably the BA400 series) were wired Q22/CD throughout. >At this moment, this is the configuration: >slot 1 rows 1-4: M7554-02 - 11/53-PLUS CPU >slot 2 rows 1-2: M3106 - 4-line async EIA MUX >slot 3 rows 1-2: M7546 - controller for TK50 >slot 4 rows 1-2: M7555 - RQDX3 > rows 3-4: ??? >All other slots and not mentioned row positions are empty. >In slot 4 rows 3-4 is a card with just one 8-pos DIP switch >three 16-pin DIL resistor chips and some decoupling caps. >At the top are two BERG connectors, one 40 pin and one 50 pin. >These two flatcables connected to an external unit, brandname >Dynafive. Inside that box are several "Dynafive" boards and >one board of "VGScientific". The rear of the box has several >BNC connectors with markings that pops 'video' stuff to mind. >Like H-sync, Green-in, Red-in, Green-out, etc. >This box and the 11/53 were connected to eachother. On the >disk in the 11/53 I found .RNO files that describe the VGS5000 >and how to use the application (something with spectral analysis). >So far for the system description. Many years agon, on a PDP-11/23, we had an external box (about the same size as the 11/23 cab - including RL02 and RX01) which was just a frame buffer (i.e. video card). Your peripheral may well be similar (but this is just a guess based on the fact that it seems to have video connectors!) >1) Can I remove that ??? card I guess yes. Obviously you loose a really cool peripheral! >2) Put a DELQA or DECNA at the same position? You can put a DELQA there. You can put a DEQNA there (which is what I guess you meant). But a DECNA is (IIRC) the really *rare* ethernet card for the Pro 300 series of machines. It won't fit and you'd destroy a cool card if you put that there :-) >I seem to remember that the RQDX3 must be the last device in >the backplane for some reason. It doesn't *have* to be. The reasons for putting cards in a particular order is described in one (or more?) of the Micronotes that you can find on the web (e.g. http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/hardware /micronotes/numerical/ ) Basically, the RQDX3 will hog the bus given half a chance, but has enough buffering not to mind yielding the bus to other peripherals (within reason). The nearer (electrically) you are to the CPU, the higher your priority. So the RQDX3 (and KDA50) traditionally go furthest >from the CPU. >So, should the Ethernet card go in slot 4 rows 1-2 and should I >move the RQDX3 to slot 4 rows 3-4? That would be normal. It will probably work even if you don't move the RQDX3 though. It's worth mentioning that the RQDX*2*/RQDX*1* are brain-dead and do not pass on one of the signals (GRANT I think). This means that they *must* go at the end of the bus (nothing after them will ever be able to interrupt!) Antonio

23 years, 7 months

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11/53 - Qbus backplane question

by GOOI＠oce.nl

I got in the 11/53 running Micro/RSX. The 11/53 has an H9278-A backplane. According to Megan's fieldguide the first 3 slots are Q22/CD and the last 5 slots are Q22. What does that mean? At this moment, this is the configuration: slot 1 rows 1-4: M7554-02 - 11/53-PLUS CPU slot 2 rows 1-2: M3106 - 4-line async EIA MUX slot 3 rows 1-2: M7546 - controller for TK50 slot 4 rows 1-2: M7555 - RQDX3 rows 3-4: ??? All other slots and not mentioned row positions are empty. In slot 4 rows 3-4 is a card with just one 8-pos DIP switch three 16-pin DIL resistor chips and some decoupling caps. At the top are two BERG connectors, one 40 pin and one 50 pin. These two flatcables connected to an external unit, brandname Dynafive. Inside that box are several "Dynafive" boards and one board of "VGScientific". The rear of the box has several BNC connectors with markings that pops 'video' stuff to mind. Like H-sync, Green-in, Red-in, Green-out, etc. This box and the 11/53 were connected to eachother. On the disk in the 11/53 I found .RNO files that describe the VGS5000 and how to use the application (something with spectral analysis). So far for the system description. Now my question. 1) Can I remove that ??? card 2) Put a DELQA or DECNA at the same position? I seem to remember that the RQDX3 must be the last device in the backplane for some reason. So, should the Ethernet card go in slot 4 rows 1-2 and should I move the RQDX3 to slot 4 rows 3-4? TIA, - Henk

23 years, 7 months

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Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainful employment

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> > sometimes i forget that computer folks r technical people. > > i come from the arts where the only thing that is needed is > > understanding. > > i am on stage sometimes and all the musicians do is > > just nod or look at each other and everyone understands them. > > Yes, but they try to use established conventions for note pitches, > time signatures, keys, chord structures and all the other syntax of > musical language...you'd have to in my band anyway ;-) So, Stan, give us a nice twelve-BARR ClassicCmp Blues standard... ;) -dq

23 years, 7 months

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test-drb January 2002