December 2001 - test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> Rebuild a system the customer is satisfied with? Risk his > process again? Rather not. A special place in Hell awaits those unwilling to take risks... -dq

23 years, 7 months

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Flashing Light Indicators un Simple Front Panels

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Dec 14, 16:16, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > In particular, do any of you have familiarity with > systems that flash the on or power light as an > indicattor, sopecifiecally, of a power supply > problem? The only thing I can think of that's *designed* to do something like that is an SGI Indy; if you power one up and it can't even run the the code in the PROM, it flashes the power light (which is a two-colour LED). The usual cause id that there's no (recognisable) RAM at all in it. Probably not relevant to a PR1ME. Even less relevant, but in the same vein, is an Acorn Archimedes. If it can't boot, and can't set up the display, it flashes a 4-bit fault code on the floppy access LED. However, the code is RISC OS-specific. > Would anyone venture what a 2 Hz flash rate on the ON > LED of a Prime might mean? If it's a short "on" and a long "off", it might be a power supply that is starting up , detecting a problem, and shutting off again. And retrying, and ... Is there any accompanying, possibly fairly quiet, whistle/buzz/click that occurs at the same rate? -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

23 years, 7 months

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MITS 2SIO serial chip?

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

-----Original Message----- From: Ben Franchuk <bfranchuk(a)jetnet.ab.ca> >> Sure its trivial to do now but we were talking 1981 when PALS were >> expensive. Yes, they were compared to random logic, but if board space was costly they were cheaper. >I never heard about pal's until about 1990. In some ways the peripheral PALS are 1970s technology, really old to some of us. >chips are in a really sorry shape. You have vintage slow I/O (2 MHZ?) >or PC motherboard chip sets. Nothing in between. On my FPGA I can run >with a 250 ns memory cycle, but need to stretch it to 625 ns for I/O. Actually thats not true. BY 1981 you have peripherals in the 125ns read write timing range. Then again Z80 at that time was just hinting at 6mhz so z80 peripherals were of an according spped for that cpu. However, other parts were faster and often far cheaper. Personally if I wanted the SIO functionality for a NON-z80 system I'd never use the zilog part. Reason it was not cheap,nor was it easy to use for non-z80 systems. They were designed for the Z80, period. Unfortunatly they were slow. If you wanted faster the 83xx or 85xx parts from Zilog were a far better choice but Zbus was scary to most people and they weren't cheap. The other part of this is NEC and Intel did the MPSC (NEC D7201, INtel 8274) which was functionally identical to the SIO and was "tuned" for 8080/8085/8088/8086 style busses and faster as well. It was a more generic part than the SIO. Also around that time Signetics and friends were doing the 2681 part that was cheap and available in various flavors. Peripherals back then were quite varied. Allison

23 years, 7 months

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Plastic latches for the Osborne?

by gibbsjj＠u.washington.edu

Hi all, Has anyone out there found a replacement for the plastic latches on the Osborne 1? I just got this machine, and one of them is broken off. What a bad design... considering how solid the rest of the machine is I am surprised they did not put some big hinged metal suitcase latches on the sucker! Thanks. Josh gibbsjj(a)u.washington.edu

23 years, 7 months

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Apple DuoDisk (was Re: Stacking Apple ][ stuff)

by erd_6502＠yahoo.com

--- SUPRDAVE(a)aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 11/8/2001 5:06:19 AM Central Standard Time, > foo(a)siconic.com writes: > I do remember reading something of a faulty/out of spec component > inside the duodisk that would cause some issues with the floppy drives > but like I said, coming up 404 on it. Think I'll ask in comp.sys..... > and find out for sure. I'd like to hear more about this. I always used individual drives (typically SA400 mechs) when I did Apple development. The IIe and DuoDisk were too new and expensive for a low-budget shop like us (but we did eventually support the //c _and_ the Apple mouse) I have a DuoDisk but no cable. What pins were used? I think I _might_ have a cable that was sacrificed to the Amiga gods by having one of the pins broken out of one end for use as a modem cable (since the Amiga puts voltage on some of the pins). It was a stupid thing to do, but it was more than 10 years ago when Apple stuff was underappreciated. Anyone have an Apple part number for a DuoDisk cable? Will a 25-pin straight-through work? -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com

23 years, 7 months

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VS4000 hardware questions

by IVIE＠cc.usu.edu

> Well, I made room on my bench, opened up my grubby, new-to-me 4000/60, > and it only has one of the two RZ24 drives my partner paid for. I've > fired off email to the vendor asking him to ship the drive and mounting > hardware, but I don't expect that he'll have either. Take a closer look. Two drives can be attached to the plastic clip in the front middle of the machine, on on top and one underneath. Roger Ivie ivie(a)cc.usu.edu

23 years, 7 months

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Hardest to Find Classic Computers (Was: RE: Way OT: Just say no t o squirrels & Pascal question)

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> When OT threads die and then get resurrected under even > wilder topics, its just not worth it. Ok, we've had threads similar to this one before, but maybe not quite... What are the hardest to find Classic Computers? What should not be counted: Systems that never went beyond prototype Systems that they made only one of Systems that were custom-designed for a single customer and were only in limited production Systems that were not "general purpose" computers Also not intended as the thrust of the topic: Systems you most of all want Rather, the systems I'me talking about would have been commercially produced, were general-purpose systems, made in quantity of say at least a baker's dozen. These systems might be generally available, and might go for a price you can afford, but you just can't *find* them where you're at. Around here for me, it would be PDP-8's and Lisa's. ??? -dq

23 years, 7 months

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What 's a 3Com 3c515 worth these days?

by jhellige＠earthlink.net

>Well... I have no personal need for an ISA 10/100 in a WinTel box - I >have a 10BaseT network with 10Base2 and 10BaseFL branches going into >a port on my 10/100 switch. For old stuff, 10mbps is fine. If I were >going to buy this at all, I'd see about using it with AmigaDOS (and >working with Holger Kruse on an MNI driver, if he's still around) Holger isn't working on Miami any longer is he? I registered it a number of years ago but from the looks of it, it appears that development on it has stopped. I'm currently using an X-Surf with the MNI driver with the standard version of Miami (registered) on my A3000. Jeff

23 years, 7 months

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Mike Stein

by mhstein＠usa.net

Sorry; trouble getting into ISP & mailbox filled up. OK now, c u off-list. m ---------------Original Message-------------- From: "Ernest" <ernestls(a)attbi.com> Subject: Mike Stein Hey, Mike. I've been trying to get ahold of you via email about your Apple II clone but your mail keeps bouncing back. Please contact me if you are still interested in selling those systems to me. Thanks. Ernest

23 years, 7 months

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have a Happy ...

by oliv555＠arrl.net

>from Houston, wishing all list members a safe and happy holiday :) -nick o

23 years, 7 months

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HP 1000/E

by steven_j_robertson＠hotmail.com

First, I'd like to say thanks to everyone that has provided help. The insight provided by this group is invaluable in getting a system like this going :-) I did a quick inventory of the cards in the rear of the machine plus a second 1000 carcass that I have and this is what I found: * (2) Time base generator * (3) Microcircuit A-2222 / 12566-60032 cards * (1) 55613 GMR-1 - I have no idea what this is. * (1) HS Terminal - 12531-80025 * (1) INTF - 1337 * (3) Natel 2101 R/D Converter I understand the "Time Generator" card but, really don't know the functions of the other cards. I know some of this info may be on the spies/~AEK site but, haven't had time to filter through those docs. The machine also has: * (1) 64K HSM 12747H - High speed memory * (1) MEM CONTR 2102B * (1) M.E.M 12731 I'm assuming these are just extended memory cards and controllers. At this point, the HP basic route certainly seems like the most doable. I did see those images on Jeff's site but, was pretty clueless as to how to get the data into the machine. Bob: exactly what is involved in your "Paper Tape Emulator". From the functional description, it doesn't sound all that complicated. This may be something, I could hack together. As a side note: I know where there are two more 1000/E that I could get for about $200 each. While I haven't inventoried them, each of those systems is a FULL rack of goodies including disk drives, X/Y data monitors, A/D converters, etc... One of the systems has a combo tape/hard drive and could possibly still have the OS installed. The other one has dual 8" floppies. I'm running out of room for rack sized systems but, those probably deserve a good home (mine). Happy holidays to all, SteveRob >From: Bob Shannon <bshannon(a)tiac.net> >Reply-To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org >To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org >Subject: Re: HP 1000/E >Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2001 09:56:42 -0500 > >Wow, you got an amazing deal! > >I've been looking for a spare 2113 for a while now, as I have a custom >instrument that is based on a HP 2113 processor. I would have easily paid >10 >times that price! > >As for operating systems and software, you have at least two options... > >First, the easy path... > >Simply run HP's stand-alone basic. You can download a binary image of the >media, originally a paper tape, from Jeff's HP2100 Archives. Now you need >a way >to get >that data into the machine, and a console port. > >You will also need a 'Buffered TTY Register' board to serve as a console >serial >port. Later HP machines (like the 2113) often use the BACI (Buffered Async >Communications Adapter) board, which is NOT compatible with HP Basic. > >Depending on what interface boards you have, we may be able to work out a >deal. > >I usually boot HP Basic from a custom tape reader emulator that holds the >binary >image of the paper tape in EPROM. This reader-emulator connects to a HP >'Microcircuit Interface' board, and the software is loaded using the >built-in >boot loader ROMs in the HP 2113. You simply power up, set a few switches >on the >front panel, then press IBL, Preset, then IBL once again, and the loader >code is >stored in memory. Pressing RUN at this point will load the tape image into >memory, and away you go. > >Now then the hard way... > >HP's operating system's for these machines are pretty nasty. The 'top of >the >line' OS was RTE-6VM, and the more common OS was RTE-IVB (RTE 4B). These >operating systems were unlike anything I've ever seen, cryptic, obtuse, and >fairly painful to use. As an example, to run a compiled program, you had >to >link the code into the OS itself. > >The hardest part here, is getting a useable disk system. RTE-IVB uses what >were >called MAC interface disks, while RTE-6VM also supported ICD drives, using >a >specialized version of the IEEE-488 interface. > >Supporting the original operating systems is a lot of work, and I strongly >reccomend you run HP Basic. > >Now, what exactly do you have? > >The HP 2113 was one of the last machines in a long series going back to >1968. >Your 2113 is binary code compatible with the original HP 2116, the first HP >product to use the then new-fangeled IC chips. HP2113's were still selling >for >$13,000+ in 1983, and are exceptionally well-built. > >It has no stack, but executes subroutines much like a PDP-8. In addition >to the >original HP 2116 instructions, the HP 2113 also adds several new registers >and >instructions, as well as a virtual memory scheme that can address 1 >megaword of >solid-state memory. > >Oh yes, many of the original interface boards from a 1968 HP 2116 will plug >right into your 2113 and work perfectly (but not the cool oscilloscope >point-plot display board...). > >I have a MS-DOS based version of the HP assembler, so you can assemble >small >programs on your PC. I am also working on a program for the PC that will >send >the paper tape image from the assembler into the HP via my tape reader >emulator. Once this is working, it should be possible to boot the HP >directly >from a file on the PC's disk. > >Take a careful inventory of the interface boards you have, and we can see >if >there is something in there you can use to get your machine running HP >Basic. >(many generic HP interface boards can be made to serve as psudo-tape reader >interfaces). _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com

23 years, 7 months

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RS/6000, cheap to good home.

by doc＠mdrconsult.com

Well, most of one anyway. I have a 7011-250 upgraded from a 7011-220, which means that I replaced literally everything but the case. So I have the 220 entire, if you want to mount it on something. This includes PSU, system board, MCA riser, 8-bit color adapter & riser, floppy drive & cable, and the lock barrel & key. A standard >2G scsi disk & cable will work. I've heard that the graphics adapter is not supported past AIX v3.25, but I promise you don't want to run X on this dog anyway. Or you could use a standard MCA graphics adapter. I need an internal SCSI cable for my VS3100 m38, a memory expansion board for the PS/2 8570, and a GXT130P graphics adapter. I'd consider Q-Bus drive controllers for the VS-II I may or may not be rebuilding, depending on whether the trade for CPU & RAM goes through. If you have something that's worth more than the RS/6000 pieces/parts, let me know what else you need. I'm suffering no delusions concerning the value of an orphaned 7011-220. Doc

23 years, 7 months

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MITS 2SIO serial chip?

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

From: Ben Franchuk <bfranchuk(a)jetnet.ab.ca> >Since I have no way of having a chip of 80's technology made I have to >limit the design to what looks realistic for that era. I dont get that? You want a 4mhz z80 or 5mhz 8085? Those are relatively common. Now, if your doing PDP-8 era then 1.2uS instruction cycle was the number, slow by todays standards. >This is what this is -- a hobby/ learning tool -- In the early 80s, I really was trying to do what zilog eventually did, make a Z280 more or less. That and figure out what this ucode thing was all about. >If it was $$$ making I would have to move to Seattle. :) Now that's depressing. ;)

23 years, 7 months

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6502/Z80 speed comparison (was MITS 2SIO serial chip?)

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

Z80 uses it's time differently... Then again how many instuctions would it take to do a 16bit add (result in register or convenient place). The fact that both are still viable suggests they have adaquate speed and a rich enough instruction set to do many tasks. Last item, z80, Z180 and Z280 do not have the same timing. For example the Z280 can be run at a bus speed slower than the CPU speed and with the MMU and cache running in burst mode you get a very different bus utilization model. Generally the only things that count is: Can the cpu do the task? What cpu are you familiar with? What is the total cost to implement the task (firmware/software counts)? Politcial impacts (company prefers, owns, has, used before). Do I think z80 is better than 6502? Yes, I'm biased. Is 6502 a good cpu? I think so, it certainly beat the 6800 and a lot of others in the 8bit space. Would I design with it? No, lack of experience, no on hand software base for it, limited tools to work with it. Would I consider it, likely. I have 6502, 6800, 1802, SC/MP, SC/MPII, ti9900, 8048/9/874x, 8080, 8085, z80, Z180 Z280, 6809 and T-11 to pick from. For a new design (personal) of some size say to run an OS then Z280 or T-11 for single chip I have 8748, 8749 and 8751s around. For simple controllers 8085 is easy to use if it grows out of the 8749. Then again I also have upd78pg11s too. Allison -----Original Message----- From: Richard Erlacher <edick(a)idcomm.com> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> Date: Thursday, December 20, 2001 4:17 AM Subject: 6502/Z80 speed comparison (was MITS 2SIO serial chip?) >I've been on both sides of this question on a number of occasions and I've found >that the real challenge is to figure out what defines a level playing field for >such a comparison. I once concluded that running each processor at a rate >amenable with the same memory bandwidth was appropriate, but there are a number >of quesitons, still that have to be resolved. > >(1) the 6502 is designed in a way that lends itself very well to shared use of >its memory, i.e. using the memory for the CPU during phase-2 and letting a >memory-mapped video refresh circuit have it during phase-1. That's quite >reasonable and impacts the 6502 very little, but, if you try to do the same >thing with a Z80, you get tangled up with its variable cycle lengths pretty >quickly. > >(2) the Z80 demands a pretty short cycle for its instruction fetch (M1) cycle, >and, if that's to be the rate-determining step for the cmparison, i.e. if the >memory bandwidth requirement is determined on that basis, (no wait-states >allowed) then the 6502 will eat it alive. That, of course, is because 50% of >its memory bandwidth will be frittered away due to the fact that the M1 cycle is >short and has a wasted tail end (refresh cycle) while the 6502 doesn't have that >burden. Further, if that determines the memory bandwidth, then the M1 cycle >(~400 ns with 200ns memory of the era) means that a 4 MHz CPU wouldn't be able >to run with it. > >Fairness might demand a wait state, but that would then raise the question of >what's the bus bandwidth at which the 6502 will be run (assume a 20 MHz 6502 and >a 20 MHz Z80, but use memory of their own era.) Also, the refresh cycle itself >is a mite short for what the CPU does at 4 MHz. How would one stretch it to >where it wouldn't impinge on the next memory cycle? If you have to share the >memory bus of the 6502, why not the Z80 as well? If you can use timing tricks, >why not on the 6502? I'd say use whatever timing tricks the two CPU's can live >with, but run them to their best advantage. Run phase-1 on the 65-2 for only 25 >ns, then switch to phase-2 for whatever time the Z80 uses the memory. Let the >Z80 use a wait or two in the M1, and stretch the refresh so the cycle can be >complete when the next cycle is in progress. Since non-M1 memory cycles are 3 >clock ticks, the clock could be pretty fast, couldn't it? > >(Can you see how this gets tangled up in technical problems of fair comparison? >That's BEFORE the question of what sort of benchmark software is to be used >comes up.) > >The shortest 6502 instructions take two clock ticks, but some overlap the next >instruction fetch. The shortest Z80 instructions take an M1 cycle, followed by >refresh, to fetch, and I'm not sure whether they execute during the refresh >(they're internal, so that's conceivable) or whether they produce an idle bus >cycle. I also don't know what happens during that idle bus cycle. Simply >sitting down and calculating the relative instruction timing might not be so >easy. It certainly won't be easy to get right. > >My own experience has been that in controller applications, manipulation of >16-bit values doesn't come up as often as I once believed. Mostly it seems the >values that are dealt with are 8 bits or fewer. Others may see this >differently, however. > >Dick > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Greg Ewing" <greg(a)cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> >To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> >Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 3:30 PM >Subject: Re: MITS 2SIO serial chip? > > >> Ben Franchuk <bfranchuk(a)jetnet.ab.ca>: >> >> > what is the faster CPU -- A 6502 or Z80 style processor like >> > the rabbit. >> >> Back when I used to spend long blissful evenings hand-assembling Z80 >> programs [1] I got the impression that Z80 code was more compact than >> 6502 code, being able to manipulate 16-bit values with single >> instructions in many cases. Whether it was actually faster I don't >> know, but I suspect it was, as long as you stuck to the 8080-like core >> instructions which didn't take ridiculous numbers of cycles to >> execute. >> >> [1] I didn't do it in a storage locker, although I did often >> had the heater on in winter. >> >> Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept, +--------------------------------------+ >> University of Canterbury, | A citizen of NewZealandCorp, a | >> Christchurch, New Zealand | wholly-owned subsidiary of USA Inc. | >> greg(a)cosc.canterbury.ac.nz +--------------------------------------+ >> >> >

23 years, 7 months

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FS/FT: DEC TZ85 DLT tape drive

by mrbill＠mrbill.net

I'm not sure how old this is, or if it meets the 10-year rule.. but I've got a DEC TZ85 (first-generation DLT; also reads TK50 and TK70 media) SCSI DLT drive for sale or trade. Ended up not being enough capacity (does 2.6G on a DLT-III tape) for what I needed at home. I've got the TZ85-A in original DEC big loud and noisy desktop 5.25" enclosure (has Centronics-style SCSI-I connectors, and I'll throw in the DEC scsi terminator). If it helps, I'll also throw in 10 or 20 DLT-III tapes, if you want to pay shipping (these tapes also work with all current DLT drives, at 10/20G capacity if I remember correctly). Looking to sell, or trade for ham radio or scanner (radio) gear. I'm in Austin, TX, and this beast is heavy (as are the tapes), so a local or nearby deal preferred, but if you're not local, buyer pays shipping. Email me if interested. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill(a)mrbill.net Austin, TX

23 years, 7 months

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Fairchild FST-2?

by neil.macmillan＠freeuk.com

The Fairchild FST-2 computer was used to control a family of Semiconductor ( chip ) testers I guess from sometime in the mid 1970s to around the mid 1980s. The family of testers were branded as "Sentry", "Sentinel" and "Series10" ( maybe some others ). The FST-2 was a 24-bit machine with its memory interleaved between odd and even addreses. When the CPU was reading/writing to an odd address, a peripheral could address an even address and vice-versa using DMA. Early machines were booted from tape, but newer machines had a PROM boot board which allowed booting from 8" floppy, hard-disk, tape ( and possibly a network. ) Early machines had 25 bit wide memory with a parity bit, while the later machines had 30 bit wide memory which provided error detection and correction. Control of the tester was via two busses known as the long-register bus and the short-register bus. If you come across an FST-2 which can be powered up, set the console switches ( piano keys ) to 06760000 in octal and press STOP, RESET, LDP, LDC and START. The machine should waken up. There are a few stand-alone FST-2s kicking around without any tester hardware. These were used as a FACTOR compiler co-processor for a development system which was based on the HP1000. Most FST-2s will be part of a chip tester. If the chip tester is still working, the whole system is still quite valuable. Even as a source of spares. Although the tester has a lot of different power supplies the FST-2 probably ony needs 5.0V and the RS-232 voltages to get running. The FST-2 ran an OS named M3 ( "M Cubed" ) and was programmed using a FORTRAN-like language named FACTOR, ( Fairchild Algorithmic Compiler Tester ORiented. ) Most Sentry testers could test digital chips with 60 pins up to 10 MHz. Some later Sentrys could test up to 120 pins at 20 MHz. I remember FST-2s being very slow to compile FACTOR programs. Most users ended up compiling their program and test patterns ( Vectors/Truth-Tables ) on a VAX. Fairchild ( and later Schlumberger ) provided really good in-depth training and documentation for the CPU and the testers for hardware maintenance and programming. The manuals which were up for grabs were either manuals/schematics which were shipped with a tester, or training manuals which some engineer picked up in San Jose or Munich.

23 years, 7 months

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Wanted DEC VT1200 mouse and cable

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On December 24, Bill Pechter wrote: > The cable that goes between the DEC VT1200 (looks like an N connector) > and their monochrome video monitors like a vt262 and a DEC VSXXX-AA > mouse. > > I've got a working VT1200 minus mouse and video cable. > I was going to cobble one up with some RG6 and a BNC connector and > an N connector (if that's really an N connector) but I'd really rather > find the right cable and spend more time enjoying the toy rather than > fixing it. FYI, if that connector is about the size of a BNC but threaded, it's a TNC connector. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf

23 years, 7 months

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Fluke, GRID and Daisy

by kenziem＠sympatico.ca

It's funny how once you find out about a certain machine they then seem to show up everywhere. Found a Fluke 900* yesterday they are asking $25 (Cdn) for it, looked like it was missing attachments. Picked up a GRID 1500 laptop it came with 6 batteries, external 3.5, 5.25 and tape as well as a vga adapter. It's missing a battery charger, and when it boots mentions a config error. The Daisy was sitting in the back, they had it put with office furniture. It looks like a desk but with a closer look, there is a 8" floppy drive on the side and at the base all of the usual connectors.

23 years, 7 months

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More... Re: VS4000 hardware questions

by LFessen106＠aol.com

In a message dated 12/24/01 6:51:52 PM Eastern Standard Time, doc(a)mdrconsult.com writes: > The "disconnect your terminal" part was the thing. I find it odd that > the box won't even finish power-up diags if the terminal is connected > and turned off. > > Doc > That's not so odd.. The exact same thing happens with my 3 vs3100m35's, my vs3500, all my Decstations and my Alphastation as well.. I just leave them completely headless for the most part, and the ones I need a head on always have a terminal connected and running.

23 years, 7 months

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CD32 and CD-TV (was Re: Hardest to Find Classic Computers)

by rachael_＠gmx.net

on 19-Dec-01 18:53:47, Ethan Dicks wrote: >I still have mine that I bought new. I use it to play CD+G discs and >not much else. Wish I had the MPEG cart - got some VCDs that would >be fun to play on it. I have an SX-1 adapter that turns a CD32 into >sort of an A1200, but I haven't had the time to check it out and put >it together. Does anyone have any docs for that? The jumpers are >labelled, so there's not much guesswork, but any docs are more than >I have now. http://www.amiga-hardware.com/sx-1.html, there is a PDF version of the docs there. Regards Jacob Dahl Pind -- CBM, Amiga,Vintage hardware collector Email: Rachael_(a)gmx.net url: http://rachael.dyndns.org

23 years, 7 months

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M8650 async board problem

by djg＠drs-esg.com

One more thing you might want to watch out for with excessive +5 voltage drop on an 8/E is the 5V fuse. I have mine almost full of cards and the fuse holder melted. I have a maintenance handbook (which I got after the failure) which said that this was a known problem. I measured the current draw and found it was slightly above the power supply rating so added another supply to power half the backplane.

23 years, 7 months

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Apple II serial number 2000?

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Dec 24, 6:31, Ernest wrote: > > I have an Apple II, serial number 2000. There is some question as to whether > or not this acurate so I thought that I would toss it out here and see if > any of you can verify it one way or the other. [...] > One person told me that it is in fact, a revision 0 board, and the edge > connectors are unusual (?) but someone else (Sellam) mentioned that he > believed that Apple began the A2 series with serial number 2001 (a spin on > the 2001 movie.) I would like to hear if anyone has any thoughts or opinions > about it. It certainly looks like an early Rev.0 board -- it has the memory configuration blocks, the right kind of sockets, old DRAM, and no extra video pin in the corner. It's an old keyboard as well (look at the power light). It's amazingly clean. You must have taken a bit of care over it, from your description. A nice find, anyway. > The pictures will expand to 640x480 if you click on the main images. Not, alas, in Netscape. But right-clicking on them works. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

23 years, 7 months

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720k floppy

by Golemancd＠aol.com

anyone know where i can find some 720k floppies thanks Joee

23 years, 7 months

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I'm back!!!!

by vaxman＠earthlink.net

Bet y'all missed me :) Got the new Covad/Earthlink DSL hooked up finally... The firewall may actually be working too... Need to check it out... Anything of great import happen in the last two months (since 31-oct-01?) Laters, clint

23 years, 7 months

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720k floppy thanks

by Golemancd＠aol.com

thanks for the info i am going to see if i can find some on ebay will try the hole covering thing also i have a couple of computers that use 720k tandy and a toshiba laptop thanks again Joee

23 years, 7 months

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I'm back!!!!

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On December 24, Ernest wrote: > I would wish that at least SOME linux snobs would grow up, and stop acting > like conceited jackasses. I think this is less of a pro-Linux issue and more of a use-the-right-tool-for-the-job issue, which sure as hell ain't Windows if you want to put stuff on the web. But, that said, you did a great job on your site, and I like it a lot. Your choice of layout is interesting and easy to use, and I especially like the method of flipping through the photos. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf

23 years, 7 months

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I'm back!!!!

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On December 24, Pat Finnegan wrote: > And I must say I love the use of IIS and Javascript... oh wait did I say > love? No, thats not the word... oh yes. I frown upon it. > > I would wish that at least SOME geeks would avoid using sh*t software. > Even Apache on NT is better... Personally I don't find anything wrong with Javascript; at least it's not a crappy microsoftism. But certainly nobody with even half a clue should be running IIS. I still think it's a really nice website though. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf

23 years, 7 months

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CD32 and CD-TV (was Re: Hardest to Find Classic Computers)

by Adrian.Graham＠corporatemicrosystems.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Matt London [mailto:classiccmp@knm.yi.org] > Sent: 21 December 2001 20:09 > To: 'classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org' > Subject: RE: CD32 and CD-TV (was Re: Hardest to Find Classic > Computers) > > > Speaking of the A570, has anyone got a spare PSU for one? > > I've got an A570 here - the A570/A500/A500+/A600/A1200 PSU's are > interchangable. I wondered about that, but various postings I found indicated the A570 PSU was switchless and also 'pulsed' the power lines to help booting off the CD-ROM.....it didn't mention pinouts so I didn't want to try it! > I'm after one ATM :&) > > I might finally give up and just get a normal CD player, and > use my A570 > for any CDTV games I get. Yeah, but just look at the *Styling* :) You KNOW you want one...... -- Adrian Graham, Corporate Microsystems Ltd e: adrian.graham(a)corporatemicrosystems.com w: www.corporatemicrosystems.com w2: www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Online Computer Museum)

23 years, 7 months

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I'm back!!!!

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On December 24, Ernest wrote: > You guys crack me up -complaining and lecturing about the evils of IIS. Just > take a > look at the page for crying out loud, and forget about whether or not it's > running on > Linux or Windows. I couldn't care less about your opinions on IIS or Apache. > I'll > move it to a linux server as soon as I can. I'm a newb at webpage stuff, so > give me > fucking break. Don't take it so personally, man... -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf

23 years, 7 months

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Fw: Looking for new home: VAX6620 + VAX6530 cluster

by rschaefe＠gcfn.org

This looked too good to not pass it along! Please reply to original poster-- I just saw it on c.o.v and am not involved. Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: "Neil Franklin" <neil(a)franklin.ch.remove> Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.os.vms Sent: Monday, December 24, 2001 11:32 AM Subject: Looking for new home: VAX6620 + VAX6530 cluster > Crossposted alt.folklore.computers and comp.os.vms, I only monitor > alt.folklore.computers, so leave that one in. Feel free to post it to > other interested groups or mailing lists. > > > Just got a mail from an colleague, that his employers 2 machine > VAX cluster that is about to be scrapped. > > AFAIK they are to be given away for free, the new owner arranges > and payes for transport (read: truck). > > Place to fetch them from is network building of University Hospital > of University Zurich, Switzerland. > > > System data, as mailed from him: > > 1 VAX 6620 W77xH155xD80cm > 1 VAX 6530 W77xH155xD80cm > 1 HSC50 W54xH107xD80cm > 1 StorageWorks W76xH170xD88cm > containing: 1 TSZ07 tape unit > 2 HSJ40 controllers > 29 4GByte SCSI disks > 13 power supply modules > 1 Infoserver 100 > 1 MA-50 tape controller W48xH13xD55cm > with 2 Exabyte tape units > > There is also an VT320 to go, but I am having that. > > > This stuff must be gone before 2002.02.11, and he must have an firm > commitment before mid 2002.01 (else he will be ordering removal service). > > > -- > Neil Franklin, neil(a)franklin.ch.remove http://neil.franklin.ch/ > Hacker, Unix Guru, El Eng HTL/BSc, Sysadmin, Archer, Roleplayer > - Intellectual Property is Intellectual Robbery

23 years, 7 months

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720k floppy thanks

by Golemancd＠aol.com

i tryed the thing where u cover the extra hole on a 1.44 oddly enough it actually works. pretty cool . so i am using a 1.44 in my 720k drive on my tanky 1000 hx thanks joe

23 years, 7 months

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I'm back!!!!

by Innfogra＠aol.com

In a message dated 12/24/01 9:16:01 AM Pacific Standard Time, pat(a)purdueriots.com writes: > IIRC, you could actaully download software from a Televideo Z80 CP/M > computer onto those terminals and it would execute on the terminal (like a > diskless box). However I could be thinking of a different Televideo > terminal. My dad (an optometerist) had a few of those with the Televideo > system for a database system, and when the computer went down, the > terminals got sold off to another business still using the same system. :( > > I'd love to get my hands on one of those old beasts. If I'm really lucky > I still have the manual for those terminals... though after my parents > moved I'm not too hopeful. > > That one is the Televideo 800 IIRC. It looks identical to the 950 but with different electronics. Downloaded the operating system from a multiuser box. I had several of them. I think I still have one of the Televideo 800 terminals in my storage locker. Paxton Astoria, OR

23 years, 7 months

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HP 1000E - It's a blinkin

by steven_j_robertson＠hotmail.com

Bill, Toggled in the program that you sent me and it actually works. Well... It didn't work the first few times because of operator error but, it works now :-) I AM ABSOLUTELY THRILLED!!! Thanks, SteveRob > > >If you would like, I can send you a real short program > > >that you can key infrom the console that makes the > > >lights blink... > > > > This would be great! > >I'll sent it directly to you... _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com

23 years, 7 months

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Multitech/Acer Micro-Professor info WTD

by Adrian.Graham＠corporatemicrosystems.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk [mailto:ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk] > Sent: 22 December 2001 23:28 > To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Multitech/Acer Micro-Professor info WTD > > > I've managed to acquire a few Multitech Micro-Professor > printers and I'd > > like to know just how the heck to use them. I've managed to > partially > > decipher the schematic, but I can't get the *ing ROM to > dump. I've got it > > I know I have the user manual and scheamtic for this > somewhere. From what > I remember the hardware is very simple and most of the work > is done in > the firmware which runs on the uProf's Z80. > > There's some other info in the manual, such as the printer mechanism > timing. Unfortuately, it's going to take me a bit of time to > find said > manual... If I remember I've got 2 manuals at home that are *this* easy to find so I'll dig 'em out hopefully today...... -- Adrian Graham, Corporate Microsystems Ltd e: adrian.graham(a)corporatemicrosystems.com w: www.corporatemicrosystems.com w2: www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Online Computer Museum)

23 years, 7 months

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X10 revived - looking for modules, switches, etc

by rhblakeman＠kih.net

Anyone have a stash of cheap excess modules, switches, etc for X10/BSR/etc. I know people mentioned sometime ago that they have bought boxes full of stuff for a few bucks but I don't have those same resources here and am setting up an "easier way of life" for my 64 yr old mother in law that has trouble getting around and forgets to turn lights off, falls asleep with the TV on, etc. I have the 2 way module to the PC and a remote that she can use but wall switches, appliance and lamp modules, etc are still needed. Email me direct if you have excess and want to make space. We can either work a cash deal or trade as I have lots of PS/2 equipment around and some older IBM PC equipment I can trade with. Thanks in advance.

23 years, 7 months

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What did you ask "Santa" for this year.... : )

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Matthew Sell [mailto:msell@ontimesupport.com] > My wife and I just picked up a VAX 4000-500 for my Christmas gift. > The reply from the guy loading the car when he found out it > was for Christmas: > "Whatever makes you happy, man" > So what is everyone else on the list asking for? Computer > related... of > course..... Well, money's a little tight so I'm not getting much computer-related stuff, but I did buy an SGI Indy for my fiancee. ;) She's getting very impatient for it to arrive too. Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

23 years, 7 months

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9-Tracks Drives, especially Overland Data

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Dec 23, 12:50, Zane H. Healy wrote: > A while back I managed to get a nice little Overland Data OD5612 SCSI > 9-Track tape drive. [...] > Anyway I just noticed something. It's got a selector switch on it for > 1600bpi and 6250bpi. Am I correct in assuming that this means that I can > only read those two formats? I don't know anything about that specific drive, but I'd guess the answer is "yes". It might do 3200, which is phase-encoded like 1600, but probably not 800, which is NRZI and needs different electronics (and is actually harder to do reliably, according to some manufacturers). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

23 years, 7 months

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6502/Z80 speed comparison (was MITS 2SIO serial chip?)

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

Cp/m page zero was not required for the os functionality only commonality. The best worst example was the TRS-80 version that had page zero relocated +16k higher to allow for the fixed rom, keyboard and video IO. The aspects of CP/M that would work for a 6502 (or any cpu) are the dynamic filespace allocation and the standized IO interface (BIOS) concept. there are other aspects but the file IO and system IO concepts were the strong points. Ah, and you found the hidden register bug in the z80. You can select either absolutely but, you cannot know which was in use save by some arcane test procedure. Works ok if your building software and enforcing a protocal for use but a multitasking OS where random routines may use one of the other is a mess. Allison -----Original Message----- From: Richard Erlacher <edick(a)idcomm.com> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> Date: Sunday, December 23, 2001 4:15 PM Subject: Re: 6502/Z80 speed comparison (was MITS 2SIO serial chip?) >For some time I've occasionally contemplated a translator from 8080 syntax to >6502, just for mental masturbation. I don't consider the Z80 a worthy target >for such translation/emulation because half its internal resources are only >accessible via the most extreme of artifice. (It has a redundant register set, >at considerable cost, yet doesn't seem to have any way of telling the running >software which of the two sets it's using.) It wouldn't be terribly difficult >to assign register space to the 6502 zero page in locations corresponding with >some not used by CP/M on the 8080. That might prove an interesting way to cook >up a useable OS for the 6502. > >Dick > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Pete Turnbull" <pete(a)dunnington.u-net.com> >To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> >Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2001 5:21 AM >Subject: Re: 6502/Z80 speed comparison (was MITS 2SIO serial chip?) > > >> On Dec 22, 4:44, Ben Franchuk wrote: >> > Richard Erlacher wrote: >> > > >> > > Let's leave compilers out of the equation. Even the same small-C >> compiler, >> > > targeted at the two quite different CPU's potentially represent a >> significant >> > > skew in favor of one or another of the two. >> > > >> > How can you have skew? That is the whole idea of benchmark is to >> > compare >> > two machines. I would expect that the simple C that was given would be a >> > good test >> > when judged with other benchmarks. >> >> For a comparison of two development systems, maybe, but not for a simple >> comparison of processors. You'll find that the compilers were written >> differently for the different processors. As likely as not, one will be >> better at certain things than another, or better on one processor. >> >> For example, gcc does fairly poorly on a PDP-11 or an SGI machine (SGI's cc >> will run rings round gcc for MIPS in almost every respect) yet works very >> well on an x86 achitecture, because that's where the major development was >> done. If you take a compiler written for one chip, say a Z80, a straight >> port will produce poor code for a 6502 because you have to think about >> things in a different way, and this will be more apparent with a simple >> compiler than sophisticated one. >> >> -- >> Pete Peter Turnbull >> Network Manager >> University of York >> >> >

23 years, 7 months

1
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Appletalk h/w

by jrasite＠eoni.com

Does anyone on the list want a pile of Appletalk tranceivers and cabling? I came into a box 18x18x36 of it and would rather give it away than pay to take it to the landfill. This is not Localtalk, but jan-u-wine AT. Round connectors, not RJ11. If anyone wants it for the price of postage, drop me a line. Jim

23 years, 7 months

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AN/UYKs

by aw288＠osfn.org

I recently aquired a small number of military Data General clones called AN/UYK-19(V) and AN/UYK-64(V). These are Rolm and Loral machines. Does anyone have any information about them? William Donzelli aw288(a)osfn.org

23 years, 7 months

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HP 1000E

by steven_j_robertson＠hotmail.com

> >Most of the cards in the machine you ahve are pretty good -- the >HS terminal will let you connect to a crt or a serial PC port with >a terminal emulator... > I did find a HP cable with a 24 pin card edge connector on one end and a 25 pin D connector on the other. The 25 pin connector only has a few pins in it (typical of HP serial cables) including 2, 3, 7, 13,and 25. I traced the wires back to where they would appear on the HS terminal card and it appear that I have the right cable for the box. At least I won't have to kludge togerther a cable. WhooHoo. I have plenty of dumb terminals laying around including a number of old HPs. So, based on your message, it sounds like I have everything necessary to make the computer "talk" to a terminal. >If you would like, I can send you a real short program >that you can key infrom the console that makes the >lights blink... This would be great! Another question: I'm assuming the placement of the cards in the cage determines the "Address" or LU of the card. Does it matter which slots the cards go in or is there an accepted standard for this? Which slot does the HS terminal card (console) go in? Thanks Again, SteveRob _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.

23 years, 7 months

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URL for "The Wench Bench"

by CLeyson＠aol.com

Interenting topic. How the hell do you build electronics that survives 15000G ! Got any technical info on RF proximity fuses ? I read somewhere that they used the capacitance between shell nozecone and target to pull the osc off frequency, a bit like a Theramin. BTW, the Germans developed a remotely controlled TV guided bomb during WW2. Luckily for the allies the picture broke up as the bomb approached its target and development was stopped. Chris

23 years, 7 months

7
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Solace 3.0

by frustum＠pacbell.net

Ho, Ho, Ho -- Just in time for Christmas, it's Solace 3.0. Free Sol's for everyone! This version of my Sol emulator fixes a few small bugs (including the fact that the last release broke the ability to save to virtual tapes in real-time mode). More importantly, it adds very low level emulation of a DS/DD Northstar disk system. You can run CP/M 2.2 as well as NSDOS. The emulator comes with a few virtual disk images, including a collection of Sol-relevant files culled from the CPMUG archives. Solace home page: http://www.thebattles.net/sol20/solace/solace.html Sol home page: http://www.thebattles.net/sol20/sol.html ----- Jim Battle == frustum(a)pacbell.net

23 years, 7 months

1
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9-Tracks Drives, especially Overland Data

by healyzh＠aracnet.com

A while back I managed to get a nice little Overland Data OD5612 SCSI 9-Track tape drive. I'm looking into getting it put somewhere that I can actually use it should I want (well that and I needed the spot it was for a couple of S-Bus expansion chassis). Anyway I just noticed something. It's got a selector switch on it for 1600bpi and 6250bpi. Am I correct in assuming that this means that I can only read those two formats? Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh(a)aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |

23 years, 7 months

1
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6502/Z80 speed comparison (was MITS 2SIO serial chip?)

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Dec 22, 4:44, Ben Franchuk wrote: > Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > > Let's leave compilers out of the equation. Even the same small-C compiler, > > targeted at the two quite different CPU's potentially represent a significant > > skew in favor of one or another of the two. > > > How can you have skew? That is the whole idea of benchmark is to > compare > two machines. I would expect that the simple C that was given would be a > good test > when judged with other benchmarks. For a comparison of two development systems, maybe, but not for a simple comparison of processors. You'll find that the compilers were written differently for the different processors. As likely as not, one will be better at certain things than another, or better on one processor. For example, gcc does fairly poorly on a PDP-11 or an SGI machine (SGI's cc will run rings round gcc for MIPS in almost every respect) yet works very well on an x86 achitecture, because that's where the major development was done. If you take a compiler written for one chip, say a Z80, a straight port will produce poor code for a 6502 because you have to think about things in a different way, and this will be more apparent with a simple compiler than sophisticated one. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

23 years, 7 months

2
1
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M8650 async board problem

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Dec 22, 23:15, Tony Duell wrote: > As the fault wasn't on the M8650, why did they cut that track? Did they > just never want interrupts? I've no idea. It wasn't cut by the previous owner; he doesn't know why either. > > However the fault, for those who're still reading, wasn't really the M8650 > > itself. There were two problems. At some point, I had unplugged the > > serial cable from the Berg connector, so there was noise on the serial > > input, which upset the diagnostics. The second problem was that the PSU > > And adding an 'antenna' (as in the serial cable) actually helps this? The proper cable has a jumper in the Berg connector to enable the EIA part of the circuit. It connects the 1489 output to the first gate in the receiver section. Without the jumper, the input to that gate floats, and hence picks up all sorts of noise. I wouldn't be surprised if I could pick Radio 2 up on that :-) > > +5V was down to about 4.5V, which isn't great for TTL. I'd checked the > > This has caught me so often when repairing DEC machines. The PSUs set up > fine on no-load and drop to 4V to 4.5V when loaded. And this causes the > most _amazing_ faults. Yes, and I should have known better. I realised something of the sort was amiss when I found that moving cards between front and rear backplanes made a difference. With everything in the front, the +5V went down to less than 4.3V. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

23 years, 7 months

2
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X10 revived - looking for modules, switches, etc

by mythtech＠Mac.com

>Anyone have a stash of cheap excess modules, switches, etc for X10/BSR/etc. >I know people mentioned sometime ago that they have bought boxes full of >stuff for a few bucks but I don't have those same resources here and am >setting up an "easier way of life" for my 64 yr old mother in law that has >trouble getting around and forgets to turn lights off, falls asleep with the >TV on, etc. I have the 2 way module to the PC and a remote that she can use >but wall switches, appliance and lamp modules, etc are still needed. Email >me direct if you have excess and want to make space. We can either work a >cash deal or trade as I have lots of PS/2 equipment around and some older >IBM PC equipment I can trade with. Thanks in advance. I don't have any that is partable (I don't have much stuff right now at all, and the few things I do have are tied up in heavy use). But, I have found X10.com has cheap prices on packages, in many cases for just a few bucks, you can get a full setup, and they run specials on a regular basis that practically give stuff away. They have a newsletter for the specials, but they tend to send out emails TOO often, so use an email account you don't care about being spammed if you sign up (and I am fairly sure they passed my addy on to others... fortunatly, I NEVER sign up for those kinds of things except under certain accounts that are already heavly spammed) -chris <http://www.mythtech.net>

23 years, 7 months

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6502/Z80 speed comparison (was MITS 2SIO serial chip?)

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

The most common reason for not using an hll is that unless the compiler is well written and optimizing you see the compiler not the cpu. Small C was a good language but the result was often so poor that even a small amount of hand optimization was easy to accomplish. For a cpu like 6502, this tended to be more true as many of the things the C language likes just dont map to cpu instruction set that directly. Same was true for most of the Z80 versions of small C as most treated it as an 8080 and didnt use the more useful instrucitons. As tot he PDP-11 that was the consumate C machine at the instruction set level. Allison -----Original Message----- From: Ben Franchuk <bfranchuk(a)jetnet.ab.ca> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> Date: Saturday, December 22, 2001 9:40 PM Subject: Re: 6502/Z80 speed comparison (was MITS 2SIO serial chip?) >Richard Erlacher wrote: >> >> Let's leave compilers out of the equation. Even the same small-C compiler, >> targeted at the two quite different CPU's potentially represent a significant >> skew in favor of one or another of the two. >> >> Dick >How can you have skew? That is the whole idea of benchmark is to >compare >two machines. I would expect that the simple C that was given would be a >good test >when judged with other benchmarks. The 8080/Z80/8086 all generate the >same poor >code. This surprised me as shows how poor the 16 bit intel product was. >The PDP-11 >version was rather nice but it even has a few quirks. >-- >Ben Franchuk --- Pre-historic Cpu's -- >www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html >PS. Note all my FPGA machines generate nice 'Small C' code and have a >resonably orthogonal instruction set. The well hacked Small C compiler >self compiles under >24 KB. A similar compiler for the 8080 is about 48KB.

23 years, 7 months

2
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6502/Z80 speed comparison (was MITS 2SIO serial chip?)

by CLeyson＠aol.com

In a message dated 12/22/01 Chris Leyson writes: >> How about a straight insertion bubble sort ? A completely useless task but it >> does take a defined number of data moves and compare operations. The array >> to be sorted could be say, 16-bit signed integer, 1k words long and in reverse >> order. (That should take a while for a 6502 to sort out). In a reply dated 12/22/01 Richard Erlacher writes > Yes, maybe something of that sort would be appropriate. Testing it on 8-bit, > and then 16-bit quantities might be just the thing for testing the relative > ability, in spite of architectural differences, of handling longer data. I'd > suggest that larger records might be more appropriate, i.e. 32-byte records, > etc. OK 8-bit and 16-bit data is appropriate but would require separate algorithms. As for record length I would suggest at least 1k (1024) entries. (Eliminates base page cheating) > BTW, when I was in college, which I realize was some time ago, but, back then, > Bubble Sort and Insertion Sort were two different algorithms ... I don't > remember the differences, but will check my old texts, though they're in > Sanskrit ... Apologies, that should have read insertion sort OR bubble sort. Bubble sort runs through the array comparing adjacent values and swaps them whereas insertion sort moves an array member until it's in the right place. In terms of performance they are both slow algoritms. Here is the code from Numerical Recipies for an insertion sort (Fortran and C) Sorts an array arr(1:n) into ascending numerical order, by straight insertion. n is input; arr() is replaced on output by its sorted rearrangement. integer n real arr(n) integer i,j real a do j=2,n a=arr(j) do i=j-1,1,-1 if (arr(i).le.a) goto 10 arr(i+1)=arr(i) end do i=0 10 arr(i+1)=a end do { int i,j; float a; for (j=2;j<=n;j++) { a=arr[j]; i=j-1; while (i>0 && arr[i] > a ); arr[i+1] = arr[i]; i--; } arr[i=1]=a; } } Ignore the floats and reals for the data, they should be ints or chars for the purposes of our 6502/Z80 benchmark. Just for the hell of it, I will try this out in DSP56300 assembler. Chris

23 years, 7 months

3
5
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Multitech/Acer Micro-Professor info WTD

by mhstein＠usa.net

Re AIM printers: I assume you're talking about the 20 col printer and not the -40; I've got a pile of these (not necessarily working, alas), but no markings on them other than Rockwell's. FWIW, the same printer was used by National Semi in at least one of their printing calcs, and I used to snap those up at junk shops for $5.00, a welcome discovery after having paid $150 ea for them from Rockwell & Dynatem. The 40 col model (very similar construction) was made in Japan, FWIW. Maybe there's still a helpful old-timer at Dynatem who could help you out; also, I assume you know that the AIM was disguised as a Siemens PC100 on the other side of the pond. mike --------Original Message-------------- From: "Philip Pemberton" <philpem(a)bigfoot.com> Subject: Multitech/Acer Micro-Professor info WTD <snip> Just out of interest, what sort of printer mech does the AIM-65 use? I'm not condoning the destruction of a perfectly good AIM-65 just to find this out, but I would like to know (in case anyone has a parts list for the AIM). Thanks again. - -- Phil. philpem(a)bigfoot.com http://www.philpem.btinternet.co.uk/

23 years, 7 months

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test-drb December 2001