December 2001 - test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

by acme_ent＠bellsouth.net

> From: Douglas Quebbeman <dhquebbeman(a)theestopinalgroup.com> > The difference between "real" holidays and "made up" Holidays > seems to be: if the Holiday was "made up" before you were born, > then it's real (like Mother's Day, which was instituted by > President Woodrow Wilson); if it was made up in your lifetime, > then it's "not real, just made up." I based my statement upon information gleaned from conversations with my customers, 80% of which are black. Most of them think that Kwanzaa was "made up" by retailers in order to get their money. Some have told me that they resent the "social engineering" aspect of Kwanzaa. Here in the South, there seems to be very little support of or identification with this event among African-Americans. > January 1 was "made up" into New Years Day by an act of > fiat; New Years Day used to be April 1. When and how did this happen? > I believe "Father's Day" was "made up" in the 50s... > I hope the pattern is clear... Kwanzaa is as valid > a Holiday as any. For those who celebrate it, I'm sure this is true. It's just that I haven't met many of them . . . Glen 0/0

23 years, 7 months

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AltairDOS information

by RCini＠congressfinancial.com

Hi: I'm preparing for the 2.1 release of the Altair32 Emulator and am finishing up the help files. I have manuals for Microsoft BASIC and CP/M 2.2 but I have nothing on Altair DOS. Does anyone have a copy of this manual either in physical or electronic form that I can have? Thanks. Rich ========================== Richard A. Cini, Jr. Congress Financial Corporation 1133 Avenue of the Americas 30th Floor New York, NY 10036 (212) 545-4402 (212) 840-6259 (facsimile)

23 years, 7 months

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Waaay UT (undertopic): W9x Thumbnail association.

by allain＠panix.com

This is pretty bad, but somewhat important right now. Anybody know how to associate .jpg files to the IE thumbnail viewer (mini previews) in W98? I don't want to embarrass anyone so you can contact me off list. Its bad enough I have to admit using it. John A.

23 years, 7 months

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was "how to clean".. How did they

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

In reality it was far different than that. Women would work for lower wage than men doing a tedious task that was fairly skill intensive. Allison -----Original Message----- From: Russ Blakeman <rhblakeman(a)kih.net> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> Date: Monday, December 17, 2001 9:50 PM Subject: RE: was "how to clean".. How did they >Not to be sexist or rude but I think that women have a better tolerance for >boring tedious work while sitting on their butts for long periods of time. > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org >[mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Sellam Ismail >Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 3:25 PM >To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org >Subject: Re: was "how to clean".. How did they > > >On Sun, 16 Dec 2001, ajp166 wrote: > >> Hand made, usually by women working under low power microscopes. > >And they had women doing the work because they apparently are better >at working with their hands (i.e. needlework). > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer >Festival >------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- >-- >International Man of Intrigue and Danger >http://www.vintage.org > >

23 years, 7 months

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testing - please ignore

by west＠tseinc.com

More work *sigh*

23 years, 7 months

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Flashing Light Indicators un Simple Front Panels

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Dec 15, 19:49, Matt London wrote: > >From what I've noticed, the SparcStation 1 flashes it's power LED when > doing a selftest, but I'm not near the box, so I can't check :&) > > And as Jeff said - Amigas flash the power LED. So they do. I should have remembered that, since I have one of each in this room! -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

23 years, 7 months

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mail list cleanup - please ignore

by west＠tseinc.com

Trying to get rid of a bunch of invalid email addresses in the list. Please ignore this message Jay West

23 years, 7 months

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[PDP8-Lovers] Re: how to clean a PDP8/A, dishwasher?

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Dec 18, 0:07, Johnny Billquist wrote: > On Mon, 17 Dec 2001, Pete Turnbull wrote: > > Domestic ones I've seen won't. Apart from the soaking -- that's the point > > of using it, obviously. Very few things are intolerant: some relays, > > transformers, a few types of switches, etc, usually just because they take > > too long to dry out. And core mats, of course, because they're very > > fragile and extremely hard to repair. > > Don't forget old transformers, which often use something looking very much > like paper for isolation. Agreed. That's why my PDP-8/E's H740 power supply got a different treatment. It still got washed, though. > > > Grab a bottle of isopropanol, some swabs, and start working. > > > > Doesn't work well on smoke-damaged boards, Coke, etc, and water is far > > cheaper and safer (for the user, too). > > It works, but it requires more work. It doesn't work very well. It's almost impossible to get all the crud out >from under ICs, DIL switches, or sockets. IPA does not do a good job on smoke-damaged boards. > > TTL may be > > much less sensitive than old CMOS and even modern CMOS and TTL > > replacements, but it is still sensitive and can be damaged by ESD. It's > > not so likely to be damaged when soldered into a complete circuit, but it's > > possible. I've had at least two QBus boards damaged by ESD through > > careless handling. > > Eh? Q-bus cards, even the oldest you can find, are LSI stuff. You won't > find much of anything even *that* modern in a PDP-8. Actually, much Q-bus > stuff is really modern compared to what I'm thinking of... Plenty of QBus cards use TTL, basic 74 series, not just LS. I just pulled a few out to check. In the faulty ones I referred to, it was some TTL PROMs in one of them that had gone (lost several bits), and I can't remember what was wrong with the other one. Nevertheless, even original 74 series TTL is static-sensitive, and the worst part is that things can be degraded by ESD without failing completely. That's why modern circuits include extra ESD protection. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

23 years, 7 months

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More Great Re-finds During move

by jrkeys＠concentric.net

Today I really got lucky and found some items I had been looking for such the NeXT megapixel display model N4000B for the NeXT cube I have yet to test and others that I had forgot that I had. The others are listed below: 2. CPT 8535 with dual 8" drives 3. HP 87 4. hp 140A scope 5. ALTOS 686 6. digital Micro PDP-11 tower 7. IBM 5110 8. Monroe 326 Scientist with Monroe 392 cassette, manual (marked Beta), and a nice black carrying case 9. CPT 9000 tower (good for parts only) 10. CPT SRS 45 (2 of them) 11. TeleVideo model 910 terminal 12. HP150 with built-in printer 13. IBM type 4055 terminal 14. UNISYS terminal could not find a model number on it I loaded a few of the finds in front of the truck to bring home to play with. That's it for now. Keep computing

23 years, 7 months

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Burroughs - any information?

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

At 04:26 PM 12/14/01 -0500, you wrote: >On Wed, 12 Dec 2001, Ben Franchuk wrote: > >> Was not Burroughs and a few other companies noted for destroying all old >> equipment >> and leasing only? > >Yes. No necessarily. I used to work for Burroughs in Roanoke, Va and we just pushed the old machines out to the dumpster. We never pulled any parts or anything so they were complete. I was amazed to discover this when I started work there and I asked if it was ok to pull parts and they said yes. I looted the first few machines but soon had all the parts I wanted so the rest escaped untouched. Burroughs usually rented machines but I know they did sell atleast some of them. But their repair, updates and other service costs were so expensive that I doubt anyone other than US Government agencies were foolish enough to buy the machine and pay cash for service. Joe

23 years, 7 months

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Warp Connect V3 (was Re: OS/2)

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 12/17/01 7:15:05 PM Eastern Standard Time, louiss(a)gate.net writes: << You can patch Warp 3 up to its final Fixpack (40) from IBM's OS/2 support site. The latest version of OS/2 (which is still supported and updated) is 4.5. It is available only by subscription from IBM, or it has also been incorporated into a retail version by a third party called ECom Station, which you can find out about at their website. Warp 4.5 is much better than any version of Windows. Unfortunately, it doesn't have the level of hardware or software support, of course. Louis >> The best way to update OS/2 is to find the WarpUp cd that was made by indelible blue. Unfortunately, they are out of business. I use it on my OS/2 systems and its pretty much automated although the java install takes hours for some reason. I'm not sure who has taken over the warpup project now. If someone is looking for it perhaps I can help.... easy networking with OS/2 <revisions for win2k and xp coming soon> www.nothingtodo.org/easyos2.htm

23 years, 7 months

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FLUKE?

by jeff.kaneko＠juno.com

I worked for FLUKE in the early 1980's, at their Burbank repair facility, in Burbank Ca (where I also lived). The FLUKE 1720 and 1722 machines did not use 8" floppy drives, they used 5.25" floppies, with optional bubble memory and Winchester (using a GPIB interface). There are only three kinds of system that FLUKE made that utilized (or could have utilized) 8" floppies: 1. FLUKE 3040/3050/3053 series board testers. These are of some interest, because it's the only application I ever saw that used the PACE microprocessor. These things are about the size and shape of an upright piano (and just as heavy). The 'upright' part was covered mit swicthen und blinkenlites. The computer was in a cardcage bolted to the underside of the table, which also helld the 8" drives. They made this cool, low pitched WAAAAAAAH! AAAAAAH! AAAH! AAAH! AAAH! sound when booting. 2. FLUKE 3200 Manufacturing Fault Analyzer. These were largely used to test bare boards and wire harnesses. These are particularly interesting not only because they used 8" floppies, but they used an off-the-shelf computer made by ONTEL. It ran a hacked-up version of CP/M, and was programmed in ATLAS. This beast had *no* blinkenlites. 3. FLUKE 'Terminal/10' analog test system. The T/10 was already old when it was moved to the back of the 1981 FLUKE Catalog. It was an ATE system aimed at analog device testing. It was controlled by a PDP-11 (need I say more?). I think it ran a hacked-up version of RT-11 (but I'm not certain). I've never seen one of these. Jeff ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

23 years, 7 months

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"Geeks" and licensing

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Steve Robertson [mailto:steven_j_robertson@hotmail.com] > 3.) The explosion of the Internet has brought a lot of people > into the > software development arena that should be in other > professions. In recent > years, anyone that knew a language's syntax could get a job > as a developer. > "Knowing the syntax does not a developer make". Hmmm... That > could be my new > sig file :-) I agree completely, but since you raise such a good point, what would you say _does_ make one a "developer?" Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

23 years, 7 months

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"Geeks" and licensing

by acme_ent＠bellsouth.net

> From: Christopher Smith <csmith(a)amdocs.com> > (To whit: I worked at one point with a guy who was convinced that every > operating system in the world was derived in some manner from MS-DOS. Yes, > that includes the Macintosh operating system too. "CP/M? What's that? > Unix is based on MS-DOS, right?" The guy was a "programmer.") (gag, puke) Well, most of us (except for Tony) have areas that we are not expert in, or even familiar with. The problem with the fellow you refer to is 1 -- The person who hired him. That person should be disposed of in the most painful way possible. 2 -- The institution which granted him a degree (if any). I've also had to work alongside people who managed to scrape their way into a "programming" job without having "what it takes" to really write code *and* solve problems. Don't get me wrong -- I have no degree and don't think one's required to be a competent analyst/programmer/whatever. But . . . Should programmers be licensed? Sure makes me wonder . . . Glen 00

23 years, 7 months

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[PDP8-Lovers] Re: how to clean a PDP8/A, dishwasher?

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Dec 17, 9:30, Johnny Billquist wrote: > On Sun, 16 Dec 2001, Pete Turnbull wrote: > They wash them yes. They *don't* put them in a dishwasher. There is a > hughe difference. I know some who do... Anyway, if the dishwasher doesn't use a hot air drying cycle, there's little difference. > > Yes, a certain amount of care is required, and certain > > things can't tolerate being soaked or being too hot or given too much > > mechanical agitation (stress). > > Which all are things I suspect a normal dishwasher might do. Domestic ones I've seen won't. Apart from the soaking -- that's the point of using it, obviously. Very few things are intolerant: some relays, transformers, a few types of switches, etc, usually just because they take too long to dry out. And core mats, of course, because they're very fragile and extremely hard to repair. > > But how would you deal with a piece of > > equipment that was smoke damaged or had been left in the rain or had fallen > > in a river or had been infested with vermin or had a can of Coke spilled in > > it? I've had to deal with all of those and more over the last two decades, > > and washing is the only way. > > Grab a bottle of isopropanol, some swabs, and start working. Doesn't work well on smoke-damaged boards, Coke, etc, and water is far cheaper and safer (for the user, too). > ESD should never be ignored, but in the case of computer from the 60s and > 70s, ESD is really not an issue. We don't have CMOS, we have old style MSI > TTL here... It is not ESD sensitive. I think you'll find most experts disagree with you there :-) TTL may be much less sensitive than old CMOS and even modern CMOS and TTL replacements, but it is still sensitive and can be damaged by ESD. It's not so likely to be damaged when soldered into a complete circuit, but it's possible. I've had at least two QBus boards damaged by ESD through careless handling. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

23 years, 7 months

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P5020 keyboard

by hofmanwb＠worldonline.nl

I recently found a Philips P5020 without a keyboard. Is there anybody with a spare keyboard he could part from? Or alternatively is there any way I could adapt an existing keyboard to the P5020? I live in Arnhem, The Netherlands Thank in advance Wim

23 years, 7 months

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New Finds

by dittman＠dittman.net

Today I found the following: 1) IBM PS/2 P70 Portable with Xenix386 loaded. Does anyone know how to bypass the root password so I can log in? 2) A DEC BC56H SCSI cable. I have enough, but since this is a little hard to find, I bought it to pass on to anyone on the list that needs it. 3) An Apple board with part number 077-0219-A. This has two 9-pin connectors, one labeled "TO MOUSE UNIT" and the other labeled "TO MOUSE CONN.". There's a 25-pin connector labeled "TO SCSI CONN.". The date on the board is 1985. Since the board only cost $1, I figured I'd better grab it before it was tossed. -- Eric Dittman dittman(a)dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/

23 years, 7 months

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OS/2

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On December 17, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > Yup...this is to support a P/390 card, so it's somewhat > > version-dependant. It's for a new install. > > Dang! Lucky bum! I'm green with envy! ;-) -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf

23 years, 7 months

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"Geeks" and licensing

by steven_j_robertson＠hotmail.com

> > For a little bit of on-topic goodness, what is the group's opinion on > > the trend of software engineering quality starting from ancient times? > > Have we improved (practially, not academically) or worsened? > >I think it's about stayed the same. Programmers were, are, and will >always be lazy and impatient. > >If you look at Microsoft code excluisvely, one could make a good argument >that we've worsened considerably. > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer >Festival >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >International Man of Intrigue and Danger >http://www.vintage.org As a software quality professional involved in the industry for nearly 30 years, I would contend that the quality of software is far worse today than previously. I think this has come about for several reasons. 1.) The tools the developers use to create software has made it "acceptible" to take shortcuts in the documentation, design, and testing of software. When I first started in engineering, every project was completely documented and desk checked BEFORE any code was written. While best practices indicates this is the correct way to engineer any project, cost was the real driving force for this methodology. When you had to punch cards, and schedule time on a mainframe to compile an application, it was easy to see the cost savings in doing it right the first time. If a programmer (they weren't called developers back then) wrote an application and it bombed, it could be several days before the code would be recompiled. The costs in doing that were pretty obvious and management simply would not allow a programmer to write code until everything else was complete. In todays environment, a developer can compile the application on their workstation in a matter of seconds. You can make a code change, compile the application, and test a module in just a few seconds. While that sounds like an effective way to work, those shortcuts lead to an overall lack of quality. Most developers where I currently work, write the code first then create documentation that reflects the way their software works. Worst of all, uninformed management believes this is the most efficient way to create software. 2.) The current business environment places tremendous value on being the "first to market". This is true even if the software is completely non-functional. As long as you release it before your competitors, you've got an advantage. Even if it doesn't work! 3.) The explosion of the Internet has brought a lot of people into the software development arena that should be in other professions. In recent years, anyone that knew a language's syntax could get a job as a developer. "Knowing the syntax does not a developer make". Hmmm... That could be my new sig file :-) 4.) Lower user expectations. My $.02 SteveRob _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx

23 years, 7 months

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[PDP8-Lovers] Re: how to clean a PDP8/A, dishwasher?

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Dec 17, 10:41, Matthew Sell wrote: > Vacuum cleaning is much more "dangerous" for a PCB than washing it. > > Pete made a very good point, one I had forgotten, the static charge created > by dust moving through an insulated (plastic) pipe can generate some > obscene voltages. > > Remember the old science experiment involving the comb generating static > electricity? That voltage is enough to wipe nearly the entire board. Of course, one has to be realistic about all this. Vacuuming a PCB with the aid of a soft paintbrush isn't likly to do much harm if the vacuum nozzle is metal and you're holding it and you're grounded, because the static on the nozzle is unlikely to build up to excessive levels. > Remember the old science experiment involving the comb generating static > electricity? That voltage is enough to wipe nearly the entire board. > > Like I said before, don't take my word for it. Take an old, dirty board > that you know works, and run it through the dishwasher. Dot use the plate > warmer or drying functions. At the end of the cycle, remove it, shake it > off, and allow it to dry for several days (hang it up). Plug it back in - > it'll work. > > And it'll look nearly new..... > > > - Matt -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

23 years, 7 months

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OS/2

by healyzh＠aracnet.com

> Yup...this is to support a P/390 card, so it's somewhat > version-dependant. It's for a new install. Dang! Lucky bum! I'm green with envy! Zane

23 years, 7 months

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OS/2

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On December 17, Jeff Hellige wrote: > OS/2 Warp 3 (red box, Windows support requires existing > Windows installation) is 27 disks for OS/2 plus an additional 14 > disks for the Bonus Pack. OS/2 Warp Connect version 3 (Blue box, > includes DOS/Windows support) is on CD-ROM, as is the Bonus Pack. It > does have two diskettes from which to boot the system for > installation though. Is there a specific disk(s) that you need to > replace for Warp 3? I also have OS/2 for Windows version 2.1. Yup...this is to support a P/390 card, so it's somewhat version-dependant. It's for a new install. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf

23 years, 7 months

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"Geeks" and licensing

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Glen Goodwin [mailto:acme_ent@bellsouth.net] > even familiar with. The problem with the fellow you refer to is > 1 -- The person who hired him. That person should be > disposed of in the > most painful way possible. Yep. Stupid (and/or ignorant) people in positions of power. Common, but regrettable. > 2 -- The institution which granted him a degree (if any). See my comment regarding #1. It applies here too. :) > I've also had to work alongside people who managed to scrape > their way into > a "programming" job without having "what it takes" to really > write code > *and* solve problems. Don't get me wrong -- I have no degree > and don't > think one's required to be a competent analyst/programmer/whatever. My opinion too. In fact, I haven't got a degree yet, myself. I do plan on eventually getting one, but it seems to me that most of the first three years of any degree program (even some two-year degrees ;) are filler, and there's only about a year (or less) of actual learning in there. I expect the amount of actual learning you'd have to do will also decrease with field-experience, so I'm not in a big hurry to acquire a sheet of paper. I do believe that at least some parts of any degree program could teach me something, though. The only question is whether it's something I wouldn't learn on my own. I do happen to be more pro-active about learning than most people. > But . . . > Should programmers be licensed? Sure makes me wonder . . . Depending on the license it may not be a bad idea ;) Really, though, I think that programmers shouldn't need to be licensed. Maybe managers should be licensed instead? Back to the problem with the programmer, though, I see this particular thing too much. There's an intense lack of fundamental understanding in most people who work with computers, and it really disgusts me. To use this as a specific example, this guy knew how to write some (really convoluted) stuff that the c++ compiler would accept, but had no real understanding of how or why any of it worked (or not.. ;) I'm not saying that to get an entry level job in the field you should need to know the machine architecture like the back of your hand, but you should at least know the basics and be willing to learn the rest. Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

23 years, 7 months

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Hardest to Find Classic Computers

by mtapley＠swri.edu

Douglas Q. wrote: >Ok, we've had threads similar to this one before, but >maybe not quite... > >What are the hardest to find Classic Computers? The Digital Group systems get my vote. I've only *heard* of about 3, since being on this list, which is a while. Maybe because no-one is looking? I can't even imagine finding a full-up system, with several CPU boards, Phi-deck tape drives, and matching cabinets for the monitor, system unit, and tape drives, not to mention all the OS's and other software... well, maybe I can imagine it... >Also not intended as the thrust of the topic: > > Systems you most of all want oops. But maybe there is some overlap? - Mark

23 years, 7 months

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Is there no end

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On December 15, John Allain wrote: > I have little doubt about the appropriateness... of your response. > Care to say when its appropriate to own three S/390's? It's wholly inappropriate. He should give one to me. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf

23 years, 7 months

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OS/2

by mythtech＠Mac.com

> Hey folks, would anyone here be able to get me disk images for OS/2 >release 3 or 4? I thought I had OS/2 Warp v3, but it turns out there are no disks in the box, just a manual. You can have that if you want it (cost of shipping, unless you have some 32mb 72pin SIMMs kicking around you want to trade... LOL) -c

23 years, 7 months

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OS/2

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

I've got a line on 'em already...that didn't take long. Thanks anyway though. -Dave On December 17, Phil Schilling wrote: > Dave, > Probably both, which would you prefer? > > Phil > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Dave McGuire > Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 1:57 PM > To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org > Subject: OS/2 > > > > Hey folks, would anyone here be able to get me disk images for OS/2 > release 3 or 4? > > Thanks, > -Dave > > -- > Dave McGuire > St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf > > -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf

23 years, 7 months

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OS/2

by pjschilling＠gcstech.net

Dave, Probably both, which would you prefer? Phil -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Dave McGuire Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 1:57 PM To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org Subject: OS/2 Hey folks, would anyone here be able to get me disk images for OS/2 release 3 or 4? Thanks, -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf

23 years, 7 months

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OS/2

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

Nope, needs to be 3 or 4...thanks anyway though. I think I may have found it. -Dave On December 17, Lawrence LeMay wrote: > OS/2 2.00.1 isnt any help I assume? > > -Lawrence LeMay > > > > > Hey folks, would anyone here be able to get me disk images for OS/2 > > release 3 or 4? > > > > Thanks, > > -Dave > > > > -- > > Dave McGuire > > St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf > > > -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf

23 years, 7 months

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Is there no end

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> > > > > Well, I suppose every chip must aspire to mediocrity. :-P > > > > > > > > Ok... I guess it took another Mac user to see my point. > > > > > > Now, honestly: by the same token, what's a PPC that doesn't run MacOS? >:-) > > > (As I type on my Apple Network Server. ;-) > > > > ... a computer I would want, such as an IBM RS/6000, AS/400, or S/390 (now > > zSeries). Mmmmm S/390 :). Now, that's BIG iron. > > S/390 does NOT run on microprocessors of any kind, let alone one as slow > as PPC. I thought Hercules could run S/390.... ;) -dq

23 years, 7 months

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DEC Cable?

by DAW＠yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu

Well, I do have a BNC male-male adapter, and some BNC cable. That should suffice as an extension. Safer than a soldering iron... ;-) Thanks for the link... --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 ! -----Original Message----- ! From: Michael Kukat [mailto:michael@unixiron.org] ! Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 2:52 PM ! To: David Woyciesjes ! Cc: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org (E-mail); NetBSD/Vax Mail List (E-mail) ! Subject: Re: DEC Cable? ! ! ! Hello, ! ! On Mon, 17 Dec 2001, David Woyciesjes wrote: ! > I've got two cables here, DEC p/n BCC17-06 and one with ! out a p/n, ! > but looks like a DEC cable. Any ideas who/what they're for? ! And can one of ! > them replace the mono video cable on my VAX Station 3100 (BC23K-03)? ! ! I don't know these cables, but as both are RGB cables, none ! of them can replace ! a mono cable. Also look at http://www.bsdfans.org/pinouts.php ! for the full ! pinout of those connectors. ! ! And additionally, DEC changed the pinout somewhen for the ! DECstations and DEC ! (Alpha) machines, maybe even VAXstation 4000 has a different ! pinout (do they ! have the 15pin connector? Don't know now). ! ! Best way would be to take a soldering iron and make the cable ! yourself. The ! other way would be a small bridge between the mono and the ! green pin to get ! the cable doing mono on the green wire. But this is a ! modification to your ! holy VAXstation, and you don't really want to do this :) ! ! And then, there is still the problem with the pinout ! difference between ! DECstations and VAXstaions. So, as your VAXstation has own ! keyboard/mouse ! connectors, a simple mono video cable would be the best. ! ! ...Michael ! ! -- ! visit http://www.bsdfans.org/ Home network powered by: ! NetBSD OpenBSD FreeBSD ! Solaris HP-UX IRIX AIX MUNIX Tru64 Ultrix VMS SINIX ! Dolphin_Unix OpenStep MacOS !

23 years, 7 months

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Troll got me (was Re: Is there no end)

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Glen Goodwin [mailto:acme_ent@bellsouth.net] > FYI, I think it's a "made up" holiday and just wanted to know > what your > thoughts were. Well, to drive this further off topic.... ;) All holidays are "made up." They are celebrations of this thing or that, lots of times an event. Nobody'd have thought of having a holiday before the thing happened, right? The difference with kwanzaa is that it's silly/stupid because it's (AFAIK) a celebration of racial identity which stems (IMO) from an insecurity of some type, where lots of other holidays are silly/stupid because they're celebrations of national identity (for instance) which stem (IMO) from an insecurity of some type :P Regards, Chris (who never understood the tendency of people to want to assign themselves to groups) Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

23 years, 7 months

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[PDP8-Lovers] Re: how to clean a PDP8/A, dishwasher?

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Dec 17, 6:08, Richard Erlacher wrote: > I'm not absolutely sure about such things, but, having had to sit through the > annual ESD classes year after year in order to maintain my cert's when I was in > aerospace, ISTR that the "old" TTL was ESD sensitive to a point, and I seem to > remember something about TTL having a threshold of 2KV for ESD sensitivity. > That suggests that while it's not as likely to go poof at the slightest ESD, you > can't "ZAP" it without harming it. Since the "ZAP" that you feel when reaching > for the doorknob is >50KV, typically, the 2KV would hardly be noticed. That sounds about right to me. The instructor on my ESD classes in the 80's probably read the same books and data sheets that yours did. You certainly wouldn't notice a few kV picked up by walking across a carpeted room if it had a few seconds to dissipate before you touched something that would discharge it instantly. I remember one school who had a lot of BBC Microcomupters in the mid-80's. All was well with them, until they had a building refurbishment, and the micros wer moved to a new room with carpet tiles. They had endless trouble after that, with machines resetting at odd times, misbehaving in unexpected ways, and so on. When one finally stopped working altogether and I was asked to look, I asked about the carpet. I suggested they mist it periodically with well-diluted carpet cleaner to reduce static, and the problems went away (I repaired the faulty machine -- it had a blown LS TTL chip, which may or may not have been coincidence). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

23 years, 7 months

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[PDP8-Lovers] Re: how to clean a PDP8/A, dishwasher?

by msell＠ontimesupport.com

You probably shouldn't use WD-40.... Better to use a good type of grease. They forgot to install grease fittings.... : ) On a side note, we had a guy from IS about ready to lubricate the bearings on a hard drive once. The situation started with a work order to repair a "squeaking" hard-drive. The real problem was that some joker turned on the "audible network activity" setting on an X-terminal, and it was "chirping" every time it attempted to access the network. Some guy came in on a different shift, and thinking he was a computer expert, quickly came to the conclusion that the hard drive needed replacement because the bearings were shot. Being the budget-minded people we were, we suggested to him that rather than replacing the expensive hard drive, we would ask the Information Services group to send a technician to repair, rather than replace, the hard drive. When the technician arrived we showed him the work order, and demonstrated the "chirping" noise. He agreed with the conclusion of the guy who write the work order that the hard drive really was at fault, and we convinced him that he should take it to the facility maintenance people to have them install a grease fitting on the hard drive and to "lube it up". As he started to take the case off of the terminal we pointed out the network activity setting. We got a good laugh out of it.... - Matt At 10:43 AM 12/17/2001 -0700, you wrote: >For laughs, take a look at >http://www.help-net.com/computer%20buddies/pc911/clean_your_hard_drive.htm Matthew Sell Programmer On Time Support, Inc. www.ontimesupport.com (281) 296-6066 Join the Metrology Software discussion group METLIST! http://www.ontimesupport.com/cgi-bin/mojo/mojo.cgi "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er...

23 years, 7 months

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[PDP8-Lovers] Re: how to clean a PDP8/A, dishwasher?

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On December 17, Johnny Billquist wrote: > > > > I am appalled that anyone would seriously consider putting any > > electronic > > > > equipment, much less antiques, in a dishwasher. > > > > > > I'll have to agree. > > > > As has been said before, what do you think manufacturers do at the end of a > > production line? > > They wash them yes. They *don't* put them in a dishwasher. There is a > hughe difference. I dunno, man...I've only come into contact with two commercial board washers in the past, and they were very much like dishwashers...right down to the fold-down front door and the spinning sprayer, except the spinning sprayers were at the top in these units. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf

23 years, 7 months

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[PDP8-Lovers] Re: how to clean a PDP8/A, dishwasher?

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

From: Matthew Sell <msell(a)ontimesupport.com> >I'm offering the suggestion that people try using their dishwasher to give >the computer the bath it really needs. I put (with the exceptions mentioned >in previous posts) all of my boards and control panels through the wash. >Every one of them works after drying. After 10 years of using this method >commercially and in my hobbies, I haven't had a single failure. Same here and I've used dishwashers for over 20 years. Dirty boards get washed. Even if there are Dip switches or relays I wash them as often they dry ok or are easily replaced. Often the board that didn't work beforehand does after or it's far easier to see the problem. >P.S. - TTL logic *IS* static sensitive, just not nearly to the extent that >MOS is. Correct! Allison

23 years, 7 months

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[PDP8-Lovers] Re: how to clean a PDP8/A, dishwasher?

by DAW＠yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu

! > Like I said before, don't take my word for it. Take an old, ! > dirty board ! > that you know works, and run it through the dishwasher. Dot ! > use the plate ! > warmer or drying functions. At the end of the cycle, remove ! > it, shake it ! > off, and allow it to dry for several days (hang it up). Plug ! > it back in - ! > it'll work. ! ! I this has already been mentioned, but also don't put boards ! in that have ! any sort of battery fitted or removeable labels you want to keep stuck ! on.... ! ! -- ! adrian ! Course, you could always remove the labels first, put them on wax paper, then stick them back on after drying. If the adhesive won't hold anymore, clear packing tape, trimmed to just a little bigger than the label, should work. And protect it too, since the label is most likely only paper. --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818

23 years, 7 months

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Flashing Light Indicators un Simple Front Panels

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: pete(a)dunnington.u-net.com [mailto:pete@dunnington.u-net.com] > The only thing I can think of that's *designed* to do > something like that > is an SGI Indy; if you power one up and it can't even run the > the code in > the PROM, it flashes the power light (which is a two-colour LED). The > usual cause id that there's no (recognisable) RAM at all in > it. Probably > not relevant to a PR1ME. I've recently seen an indy do that because the RTC was improperly seated. Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

23 years, 7 months

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Should engineers be licensed (Was "Geeks")

by csmith＠amdocs.com

-----Original Message----- From: CLeyson(a)aol.com [mailto:CLeyson@aol.com] > I sometimes wonder just how many customers we've lost because of this. > Also, dont get me wrong, the same should be applied to hardware design. > We recently interviewed an electronics engineering graduate who didn't know > the difference between NPN and PNP transistors !! What do they teach kids > these days ?? My guess is nothing. (Really... that's part of the reason I'm not in a hurry to get my degree) It's not that the couldn't teach anything, or that the "kids" couldn't learn if they tried, though, I think. It's more that they're too stupid to know that there's more to learning than showing up every day and reciting meaningless (to you) data. The really sad part is that schools are accommodating this attitude by adjusting their programs such that you really needn't (in fact, it becomes difficult to...) learn anything. Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

23 years, 7 months

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Troll got me (was Re: Is there no end)

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 12/16/2001 5:57:45 PM Eastern Standard Time, acme_ent(a)bellsouth.net writes: > >> From: SUPRDAVE(a)aol.com > > >>Gee, a message from an AOL user with no HTML . . . imagine that . . . harrumph, will wonders ever fuckin cease? > > >> Kwanzaa is NOT a real holiday. > > >Okay, I'll bite: why isn't it? > > figure it out yourself, google is around for a reason

23 years, 7 months

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[PDP8-Lovers] Re: how to clean a PDP8/A, dishwasher?

by Robert_Feldman＠jdedwards.com

For laughs, take a look at http://www.help-net.com/computer%20buddies/pc911/clean_your_hard_drive.htm -----Original Message----- From: Matthew Sell [mailto:msell@ontimesupport.com] Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 11:16 AM To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org Subject: Re: [PDP8-Lovers] Re: how to clean a PDP8/A, dishwasher? <snip> Wrong. One manufacturer I worked for used a commercial Hobart dishwasher that was modified by an electronics distributer to include racks specifically made to handle printed circuit boards. This "boardwasher" was literally a dishwasher. Not a unique setup, either. You say there is a huge difference. What are the differences? Every boardwashing setup at every manufacturer I've consulted or been an employee of used a system that washes boards using higher water pressure and temperature than your common household dishwasher. If you are referring to a big difference, then I guess you are right. Your dishwasher is *MUCH* more gentle for the items being cleaned than the typical commercial boardwasher. <snip>

23 years, 7 months

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[PDP8-Lovers] Re: how to clean a PDP8/A, dishwasher?

by Adrian.Graham＠corporatemicrosystems.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Matthew Sell [mailto:msell@ontimesupport.com] > Sent: 17 December 2001 16:41 > To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: [PDP8-Lovers] Re: how to clean a PDP8/A, dishwasher? > > Like I said before, don't take my word for it. Take an old, > dirty board > that you know works, and run it through the dishwasher. Dot > use the plate > warmer or drying functions. At the end of the cycle, remove > it, shake it > off, and allow it to dry for several days (hang it up). Plug > it back in - > it'll work. I this has already been mentioned, but also don't put boards in that have any sort of battery fitted or removeable labels you want to keep stuck on.... -- adrian

23 years, 7 months

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Hardest to Find Classic Computers (Was: RE: Way OT: Just say no to squirrels & Pascal question)

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: no [mailto:oliv555@arrl.net] > digital Alphabook. Not exactly Rare, just hard-to-find Last I checked you could get them refurbished from Tadpole/RDI. Depending on availability, of course, but they get them occasionally. They still cost several thousand dollars, IIRC. Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

23 years, 7 months

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Should engineers be licensed (Was "Geeks")

by CLeyson＠aol.com

Ben Franchuk wrote: > "Should HTML/inline files be banded from EMAIL?" I ask. > As of late I have turned inline viewing off, with all the > stupid viruses around. Thanks to AOL I can't turn this feature off :-( Chris

23 years, 7 months

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[PDP8-Lovers] Re: how to clean a PDP8/A, dishwasher?

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Dec 16, 9:51, Johnny Billquist wrote: > On Fri, 14 Dec 2001, Mark Crispin wrote: > > I am appalled that anyone would seriously consider putting any electronic > > equipment, much less antiques, in a dishwasher. > > I'll have to agree. As has been said before, what do you think manufacturers do at the end of a production line? Yes, a certain amount of care is required, and certain things can't tolerate being soaked or being too hot or given too much mechanical agitation (stress). But how would you deal with a piece of equipment that was smoke damaged or had been left in the rain or had fallen in a river or had been infested with vermin or had a can of Coke spilled in it? I've had to deal with all of those and more over the last two decades, and washing is the only way. I don't advocate unneccessary cleaning, but sometimes it's required. > > It may be alright to (gently!) vaccuum away dust and deteriorated foam > > rubber, although a feather duster may be more appropriate. I would not > > risk anything else, and certainly not insert anything (including water or > > alcohol) under the plexiglass shield protecting the core. > > Vacuum cleaning (gently!) is about the only thing I'd recommend. Be careful about that. Allison's warning about ESD is quite real. Don't even think about a feather duster; at least, not if it's a synthetic one. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

23 years, 7 months

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Free MC68020 User's Manual

by Robert_Feldman＠jdedwards.com

I have a copy of the Motorola "MC68020 32-Bit Microprocessor User's Manual" (Second Edition, 1985) that was going to be tossed at work. Anyone want it? It's free for shipping costs (under 2 pounds) or pickup in Chicago Loop. Email me at robert_feldman(a)jdedwards.com if you are interested. Random drawing if more than one request by Wednesday AM. Bob

23 years, 7 months

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Old Wrapped inCider....

by rhudson＠cnonline.net

drats!!!! I was handling it so carfully I did not notice the bottom of the plastic bag had been carefully opened. :^( I guess it's no big deal now. Are any of these magazine of interest to someone who has not a full set? When I finish reading them they are yours for a "sase". nibble august 1987 v8n8 inCider december 1987 inCider april 1989 If you want them let me know. Multiple requests will be decided based on order in my mail browser, topmost takes all. ;^)

23 years, 7 months

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Another odd-ball/almost classic computer...8 yr old...

by DAW＠yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu

Michael --- Just curious, what would you do with it, use it for? --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 ! -----Original Message----- ! From: Michael Nadeau [mailto:menadeau@mediaone.net] ! Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 7:51 PM ! To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org ! Subject: Re: Another odd-ball/almost classic computer...8 yr old... ! ! ! I remember getting a press briefing on the Handbook before ! its release. ! Gateway did not manufacture the unit. I think it was made ! under contract in ! Taiwan. It was an interesting system that was not on the ! market for long. ! I'd grab one if the opportunity presented itself. ! ! --Mike ! ! Michael Nadeau ! Editorial Services ! 603-893-2379 ! ----- Original Message ----- ! From: "David Woyciesjes" <DAW(a)yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> ! To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> ! Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 5:10 PM ! Subject: Another odd-ball/almost classic computer...8 yr old... ! ! ! > Just found this in a box... Has anyone here ever heard of a Gateway ! > 2000 Handbook computer? It's like a palmtop/laptop computer, ! 10"x6"x1.5"... ! > using a Chips & Tech. 8680 "PC on a chip". It has the 2MB ! RAM upgrade, to ! > bring it to a whopping 3MB! ! > And would you look at that, 40MB HDD... With the null modem cable, ! > it would make a great ultra-portable terminal... ! > ! > --- David A Woyciesjes ! > --- C & IS Support Specialist ! > --- Yale University Press ! > --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu ! > --- (203) 432-0953 ! > --- ICQ # - 905818 ! > !

23 years, 7 months

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Databooks

by DAW＠yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu

Pete - I'm forwarding this to ClassicCmp.org mail list for you. Someone there might want them... From: CaptnZilog(a)aol.com [mailto:CaptnZilog@aol.com] Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 3:52 PM To: port-i386(a)netbsd.org Subject: OT: Databooks Way off topic here, but I figure that this list is probably looked at by most of the people out there. I have two xerox-paper boxes of duplicate Electronics Databooks I've weeded out of my three 7' high bookcases of databooks. Anybody out there in the vicinity of CT (probably not worth shipping them, its a lot of weight) interested in any databooks (to add to your collection?)? I can provide a list if you want. Some TI DSP databooks, and miscellaneous other stuff... Pete --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818

23 years, 7 months

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How did they string core?

by gehrich＠tampabay.rr.com

At 09:28 AM 12/17/01 -0500, you wrote: >Some manfacturers did it by hand, some by machine. IBM had core stringing > > machines during the S/360 era, for the huge stacks (about 1' by 4') used > > in some of the storage units. They also had cores hand strung in the far > > East, as the cheap labor was more economical than the robots. I was an industrial engineer assigned to the Core Line in Poughkeepsie for IBM. As the cores got small and smaller the operation became harder and harder. We used a large screen like device with slots in it. The cores were dropped onto the screen which was shaken so that the cores would fall into the proper holes. Then a button was pushed and the N/S and then the E/W wires pulled through the centers of the cores. The last part of the operation was the diagonal (bias) wires which were threaded though by hand. Very few individuals were capable of this last part of the operation. Almost all of the operators were women. Men just couldn't do the fine point work. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- gene(a)ehrich.com gehrich(a)tampabay.rr.com P.O. Box 3365 Spring Hill Florida 34611-3365 http://www.voicenet.com/~generic Computer & Video Game Garage Sale I accept PayPal To subscribe to automatic updates send a blank e-mail to: online-garage-sale-subscribe(a)yahoogroups.com

23 years, 7 months

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test-drb December 2001