Does anyone have old issues of MacWeek they'd like to get rid of?
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
* Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *
On December 23, Ernest wrote:
> Well, there were suddenly 37 active connections all trying to get it. Ouch.
> No wonder it bombed on you. Keep trying if you get a server busy error. The
> activity should slow down.
>
> Comments on the site, anyone?
Cool stuff!
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf
On December 26, Jochen Kunz wrote:
> > Of course I enjoy doing that, which is why I was doing it. But it's
> > also what I do most of the other days in the year, so it's hardly a
> > holiday ;-)
> May I call you a geek? ;-)
>
> BTW: I earn my mony as a programmer and what do I do for my private
> enjoinment this days: I am porting (OK, trying to port) pdksh-5.2.14 to
> 2.11BSD on my PDP11/73... ;-)
Woohoo! And WHO is a geek here? ;)
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf
I'm sure someone here would want this...
Subject: VAX 3900 Free to Good Home
Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2001 22:40:56 -0500
From: Chuck McCrobie <mccrobie(a)cablespeed.com>
Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms, comp.sys.dec
As a testament to Digitial engineering, I have a VAX 3900 that's been
sitting in my garage for 3 1/2 years that just booted up!
CONDITIONS:
Machine must be picked up in its entirety - ALL OR NOTHING
Local pickup only - I don't want to ship this beast
LOCATION:
Laurel, MD 20724
You will need a large sedan, pickup, or similar vehicle. The external
frame has been modified to come apart, so loading it will be easy.
PARTICULARS:
VAX 3900 - CPU - (Big cabinet) KA655-AA (M7625-AA)
32 MB RAM - MEMORY - MS650-BA (M7622-A)
DESQA-SA - Ethernet - (M3127-PA)
CXY08-M - 8 line Terminal controller - (M3119-YA)
USD 1108 QBUS->SCSI Controller - in passthrough mode
* This is a NON-DISCONNECTING controller - yes, I have the manual!
TQK70 - tape controller - (M7559-00)
* DRIVE IS _BROKEN_
KDA50 - disk controller - (M7164-00 & M7165-00)
CMD 200 TM QBUS->SCSI Controller
* Yes, I have the manual
RA90 Drive (1.2GB) - Big and slow, but after 3 1/2 years idle time,
still works
TK70 - tape drive - BROKEN
NOTES:
The CMD 200 TM recognized a newer SCSI CD-ROM and booted VMS 7.1 install
kit.
Machine currently boots VMS 5.5-2.
CXY08 and DESQA have NOT been tested, but were working.
--- David A Woyciesjes
--- C & IS Support Specialist
--- Yale University Press
--- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu
--- (203) 432-0953
--- ICQ # - 905818
*sigh*, this has to happen a month and a half after I move out of
Laurel... :-(
-Dave
On December 26, David Woyciesjes wrote:
> I'm sure someone here would want this...
>
> Subject: VAX 3900 Free to Good Home
> Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2001 22:40:56 -0500
> From: Chuck McCrobie <mccrobie(a)cablespeed.com>
> Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
> Newsgroups: comp.os.vms, comp.sys.dec
>
> As a testament to Digitial engineering, I have a VAX 3900 that's been
> sitting in my garage for 3 1/2 years that just booted up!
>
> CONDITIONS:
>
> Machine must be picked up in its entirety - ALL OR NOTHING
> Local pickup only - I don't want to ship this beast
>
> LOCATION:
>
> Laurel, MD 20724
>
> You will need a large sedan, pickup, or similar vehicle. The external
> frame has been modified to come apart, so loading it will be easy.
>
> PARTICULARS:
>
> VAX 3900 - CPU - (Big cabinet) KA655-AA (M7625-AA)
> 32 MB RAM - MEMORY - MS650-BA (M7622-A)
> DESQA-SA - Ethernet - (M3127-PA)
> CXY08-M - 8 line Terminal controller - (M3119-YA)
> USD 1108 QBUS->SCSI Controller - in passthrough mode
> * This is a NON-DISCONNECTING controller - yes, I have the manual!
> TQK70 - tape controller - (M7559-00)
> * DRIVE IS _BROKEN_
> KDA50 - disk controller - (M7164-00 & M7165-00)
> CMD 200 TM QBUS->SCSI Controller
> * Yes, I have the manual
> RA90 Drive (1.2GB) - Big and slow, but after 3 1/2 years idle time,
> still works
> TK70 - tape drive - BROKEN
>
> NOTES:
>
> The CMD 200 TM recognized a newer SCSI CD-ROM and booted VMS 7.1 install
> kit.
>
> Machine currently boots VMS 5.5-2.
>
> CXY08 and DESQA have NOT been tested, but were working.
>
>
> --- David A Woyciesjes
> --- C & IS Support Specialist
> --- Yale University Press
> --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu
> --- (203) 432-0953
> --- ICQ # - 905818
>
--
Dave McGuire
St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf
I'm looking for the following.
The cable that goes between the DEC VT1200 (looks like an N connector)
and their monochrome video monitors like a vt262 and a DEC VSXXX-AA
mouse.
I've got a working VT1200 minus mouse and video cable.
I was going to cobble one up with some RG6 and a BNC connector and
an N connector (if that's really an N connector) but I'd really rather
find the right cable and spend more time enjoying the toy rather than
fixing it.
Bill
--
d|i|g|i|t|a|l had it THEN. Don't you wish you could still buy it now!
bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@ureach.com
[For once I did not crosspost and now PDP-8 Lovers list
is not working right, so it goes to classiccmp again.]
Hi,
after dishwashing I reassembled my "new" PDP8/A and it's
working again, after David Gesswein hinted me to the
programmers console quick reference, I was able to enter
my first manually assembled programs and it's indeed working!
I must say that I never thought I would ever manually
assemble a machine program, but with the PDP8 it's
remarkably easy.
My first PDP-8 program is a memory test, and I was glad I
did it because I found a problem. My test goes through all
memory fields and writes into each cell its address in the
field. Then it reads that address out of each field again
and so finds problems.
I have 3 16k words boards and one 8k word board. Two of
the 16k boards are good but both seem to want to play the
role of the lower fields 0 to 3. The third 16k board
plays the high fields 4 to 7, but it has a systematic
error masking out bits 6 and 7. All data X I write into
it is read as X AND 7717. The 8k board has a similar bit
mask error, it's mask is 6777. Is this a fatal problem
or can one fix it by cleaning some contacts or redo some
crummy soldering? I assume the core mats are all fine,
because they would not just lose a few columns of data
bits, right? I also assume that others had to deal with
similar issues, because apparently such errors are not
uncommon. What's the trick?
(I did swap them into various backplane slots, just to
make sure it's not just a gap in the data bus lines.
... BTW, does the OMNIBUS need something like grant
continuity cards for intermittent empty slots?)
thanks for your advice,
-Gunther
PS, just to show off (and to save this stuff from my hand-
written notes) here's my program. It's ugly spaghetti code
with quirks because I had to modify it at the console
(remember: never start coding without having done your
work on paper :-) I now understand much better :-)
I'm not sure I have the symbolic assembly language right,
I may use some things (like the Z modifier for zero-page
addressing) that is not standard but helps me code right.
0020 0000 LOC , 0 TESTED MEMORY LOCATION
0021 0000 FLD , 0 TESTED FIELD NUMBER
WRITE LOOP
0200 7200 CLA A = 0
0201 1254 TAD FLDINI A += FLDINI
0202 3021 DCA Z FLD FLD = A; A = 0
0203 1257 TAD LOCINI A += LOCINI
0204 3020 DCA Z LOC LOC = A; A = 0
0205 1020 WRLOOP, TAD Z LOC A += LOC
0206 3420 DCA IZ LOC *LOC = A; A = 0
0207 2020 ISZ Z LOC IF(++LOC == 0)
0210 5205 JMP WRLOOP ELSE GOTO WRLOOP
0211 4234 IFRET, JMS INCFLD THEN A = INCFLD()
0212 7450 SNA IF(A != 0)
0213 5205 JMP WRLOOP ELSE GOTO WRLOOP
/*FALLTHROUGH*/
READ/CHECK LOOP
0214 7200 CLA A = 0
0215 1254 TAD FLDINI A += FLDINI
0216 3021 DCA Z FLD FLD = A; A = 0
0217 1257 TAD LOCINI A += LOCINI
0220 3020 DCA Z LOC LOC = A; A = 0
0221 1020 RDLOOP, TAD Z LOC A += LOC
0222 7041 CIA A = -A
0223 1420 TAD IZ LOC A += *LOC
0224 7440 SZA IF(A != 0)
0225 7402 ERROR, HLT ELSE HALT
0226 2020 ISZ Z LOC THEN IF(++LOC == 0)
0227 5221 JMP RDLOOP ELSE GOTO RDLOOP
0230 4234 JMS INCFLD THEN A = INCFLD()
0231 7450 SNA IF(A != 0)
0232 5221 JMP RDLOOP ELSE GOTO RDLOOP
0233 7402 OK, HLT THEN HALT
INCREASE DATA FIELD SUBROUTINE
returns 0 if success
resets field to 0 and returns -1 if overflow
0234 0000 INCFLD, 0
0235 2021 ISZ Z FLD IF(++FLD == 0)
0236 7300 CLA CLL ELSE { A = 0; L = 0 }
0237 1021 TAD Z FLD THEN A += FLD
0240 7047 CIA A = -A
0241 1255 TAD FLDMAX A += FLDMAX
0242 7510 SPA IF(A >= 0)
0243 5261 JMP RSTFLD ELSE GOTO RSTFLD
0244 7300 CLA CLL THEN { A = 0; L = 0 }
0245 1021 TAD Z FLD A += FLD
0246 7006 RAL 2 A <<= 2
0247 7004 RAL A <<= 1
0250 1260 TAD CDFTMP A += CDFTMP
0251 3252 DCA CDFDO CDFDO = A; A = 0
0252 0000 CDFDO, 0
0253 5634 JMP I INCFLD RETURN
INITIALIZATION VALUES
0254 0000 FLDINI, 0
0255 0007 FLDMAX, 7
0256
0257 0300 LOCINI, 0300
0260 6201 CDFTMP, CDF
RESET THE MEMORY FIELD BACK TO 0
assert A == -1
0261 7000 RSTFLD, NOP
0262 1254 TAD FLDINI A += FLDINI
0263 3021 DCA Z FLD FLD = A; A = 0
0264 4234 JMS INCFLD A = INCFLD()
0265 7040 CMA A ~= A
0266 5212 JMP IFRET GOTO IFRET
--
Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow(a)regenstrief.org
Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care
Adjunct Assistant Professor Indiana University School of Medicine
tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org
I thought I'd give folks a chance on these before I took them back. I
bought them labelled "SO-DIMMs for older Dell Laptops" - apparently, my
laptop is too old. What I have in my Latitude LM are what I think of
as SO-DIMMs - 36-pins, double-sided, no keying groove. What I have
appears to be for a Latitude CP machine. It _does_ have a keying
groove and a lot more pins... more than double.
One of these is new in the package, one has been opened (before I
got them). The part numbers on the DRAMs is D42S65165G5-A60-7JF.
The CDW part number is 118982, the Visiontek part number appears
to be 54073.0
If anyone is interested in a pair of 32Mb SO-DIMMs, contact me
off-list at ethan_dicks(a)yahoo.com. If there's no interest, I can
take them back, but they'll hit me for a 10% restocking fee.
-ethan
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
http://greetings.yahoo.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Doc [mailto:doc@mdrconsult.com]
> Either have a key or "mknod /dev/big_screwdriver" and be handy with a
> soldering iron. The key not only locks the cabinet, but controls the
> boot sequence. You need it.
I imagine one could fit a switch in place of the keylock, if you really
want.
> Some things you will want to consider.
> The 320 & 32h need proprietary serial cables. I can supply pinouts.
> They, as well as a few others, also have a proprietary external SCSI
> interface. It looks like a 68-pin connector, but it's not.
Reminds me of the interface on the MicroVAX 3100 machines, which also looks
like a 68-pin connector, and it is(!), but it's a SCSI-1 interface.
Regards,
Chris
Christopher Smith, Perl Developer
Amdocs - Champaign, IL
/usr/bin/perl -e '
print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");
'
On December 26, Christopher Smith wrote:
> > I think this is less of a pro-Linux issue and more of a
> > use-the-right-tool-for-the-job issue, which sure as hell ain't Windows
> > if you want to put stuff on the web.
>
> Then again, when is windows the right tool for the job? (Unless you want to
> orchestrate a cruel practical joke...)
Hmm. It's the right tool if you want to put on a tie, be a "team
player", use the word "key" a lot (and not meaning a piece of metal
with "XX2247" stamped on it), and pretend to be indespensible while
collecting a huge salary for little or no real work. ;)
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dave McGuire [mailto:mcguire@neurotica.com]
> I think this is less of a pro-Linux issue and more of a
> use-the-right-tool-for-the-job issue, which sure as hell ain't Windows
> if you want to put stuff on the web.
Then again, when is windows the right tool for the job? (Unless you want to
orchestrate a cruel practical joke...)
Regards,
Chris
Christopher Smith, Perl Developer
Amdocs - Champaign, IL
/usr/bin/perl -e '
print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");
'
> -----Original Message-----
> From: UberTechnoid(a)Home.com [mailto:UberTechnoid@Home.com]
> Help does nothing really useful. What I'd like to know for
> instance, is
> how do I set the vax to do an unattended boot. It has been
> stuck at a two
> stage boot since before I even got an OS on it. It powers
> on, self-tests,
> boots to a second-level CLI, I type C for Continue and there we go.
Actually that's probably a problem with your default boot options. Those
are AFAIK unique depending on the system you're booting, and as such ought
to be handled in the O/S documentation.
> A prom manual would tell me how to get rid of the second-level cli.
See above -- I'm not so sure. :)
All else aside, though, you may consider checking the values of all the
built-in variables for obvious problems.
Regards,
Chris
Christopher Smith, Perl Developer
Amdocs - Champaign, IL
/usr/bin/perl -e '
print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");
'
> -----Original Message-----
> From: UberTechnoid(a)Home.com [mailto:UberTechnoid@Home.com]
> Good luck! I can't even find a PROM command manual for the
> thing. Come
> to mention it, DOES anyone have a prom command listing for
> the vs400/60
> and/or the Sparcstation 4/330 (sun4)?
I have a Sun SBUS development kit which contains (among other things) a
quick-reference card which lists most OpenBoot monitor commands, and a full
(realatively large, and I'd rather not copy the whole deal if I can help it.
:) forth-like-monitor-language reference manual.
As for the VAX, I have no reference, but the 4000s were new enough to
support the "help" command. :)
Regards,
Chris
Christopher Smith, Perl Developer
Amdocs - Champaign, IL
/usr/bin/perl -e '
print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");
'
> -----Original Message-----
> From: James L. Rice [mailto:jrice@texoma.net]
> You are lucky. I changed from Wife 1.0 who hated technology and
> computers to Wife 2.0 who is an avid user (even if I can't
> get her off
> M$ products) and not only tolerates my collection but encourages it.
> She is the contributer of the second cube as well as the NeXT Color
> Printer. The change over from version 1.0 to 2.0 was very expensive
> ...in fact so expensive that I would hesitate to do it again.
On the other hand, your current wife device seems very well-behaved, so I'd
not see why you should change again. ;) It's difficult to find one that
will maintain stability with even a nominally normal relationship signal at
any rate, and you're better off sticking with what works.
It helps, of course, if you can handle the PayAttentionToME signals in
real-time.
Regards,
Chris
Christopher Smith, Perl Developer
Amdocs - Champaign, IL
/usr/bin/perl -e '
print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");
'
Did anyone snag this?? (see below...). I haven't caught up on my digest
reading ....
This is about 1/2 hour from me, straight shot down Route 2. My wife would
divorce me if I took it, but I'd LOVE to help rescue it for someone else...
And I own a pickup w/ a cover...
Rich B.
-----------------------------
From: "Thomas R. Fitch" <tfitch(a)esleeck.com>
To: "'mrbill(a)pdp11.org'" <mrbill(a)pdp11.org>
Subject: PDP11
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 15:19:23 -0500
Mr. Bill,
I have a PDP11 in two towers, with 2 crt's and keyboards, and a keyboard
printer. All in excellent condition. I also have all of the original
documentation. This product is available for pickup from our Turners
Falls, MA location. Please contact me if you have any interest.
Tom Fitch, Treasurer
Esleeck Manufacturing Company
36 Canal Road
Turners Falls, MA 01376
(413) 863-4326 ext 206
I'd like to create some archives of system diskettes for older machines,
cp/m machines that use 5 1/4" 96 tpi double sided diskettes and 8"
diskettes.
What is a good way to do that? I've looked into Teledisk but that
assumes that you can read the actual diskettes on a PC which I can't.
Any suggestions?
Thanks.
--
Dave Mabry dmabry(a)mich.com
Dossin Museum Underwater Research Team
NACD #2093
Hi all,
I am looking for the original Osborne 1 and Osborne Executive
documentation... any suggestions? A copy would be fine. A scanned copy
would be even better. Is there an online archive of scanned documentation
somewhere? Thanks.
Josh
I didn't even realize it was past 12:00 until just now...... I'm busy
wrapping presents :-)
I've been working on a 486 for the last few days. I'm trying to get a
few stagnant projects going. Dumb things freezes on me..... will write
more later.
Finally snowed too!
Merry Christmas!!
Chad Fernandez
Michigan, USA
I have a AMD5x86/133 that runs linux Xwin rather well in 16mb
ram. I've run it on 486dx66 with 20mb ram and it's decent.
Allison
-----Original Message-----
From: Tothwolf <tothwolf(a)concentric.net>
To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Date: Tuesday, December 25, 2001 7:54 PM
Subject: Re: Merry Christmas Everyone!!!!
>On Tue, 25 Dec 2001, Ben Franchuk wrote:
>
>> A 486 makes a nice Linux box providing you don't run X-windows.
>
>A 486 with 32-64mb of ram will run X fine, but it's still a little slow
>for cpu intensive processes (netscape, mozilla, gimp...). These machines
>also make excellent X terminals, provided they have a fairly decent
video
>card. My personal favorites tend to be old Diamond Viper and Stealth VLB
>cards with 2mb of video ram.
>
>-Toth
>
>The time base generator boards are very simple, that accept a 3-bit >value
>and will set their I/O flag bit after the selected time period, >which can
>be 10 sec, 1 sec, 0.1 sec, 0.01 sec, etc.
>
>Usually the TBG board is installed in slot 10.
I found the manuals for the TBG on www.spies.com/~AEK . Haven't messed with
that board yet but, shouldn't have too much trouble using it.
>You also have a HS Terminal board. Excellent, these are slightly >rare.
>This is a serial port board that will run up to a maximm of >2400 baud, and
>it is compatible with HP Basic. Normally these use a >current loop
>interface, but a simple modification to the I/O cable >(inside the hood
>that connects to the PCB) will give you RS-232 I/O. >I can supply all the
>info you need for this.
As with the TBG board, I found the manuals for this board. There are several
code samples with the manuals and on Jeff's site but, so far I can't get it
to work. I didn't realize the cable had to be changed for RS232. If you have
the pin outs, that'd be cool.
I don't have the code in front of me but, unless I'm mistaken, it just
continously loops when checking the status. Not sure if this could be caused
by the cabling differences or not.
...
SFS 10
JMP *-1
...
NOTE: This is the only I/O card in the box so, I assumed it had to go in
slot "10".
If you can provide a short routine to send a single character to the
console, that'd eliminate one of the variables (me).
>Oh yes, your going to have to use a terminal with 2400 baud, 7 data >
> >bits, space parity, and 2 stop bits. Hyperterminal works just fine >for
>this.
No problem. Got plenty of dumb terminals laying around.
>The microcircuit interface boards are very valuable. You will want >to use
>one of these as your reader-emulator interface. I'll need to >know if they
>are '+ True' or 'GND true' boards, the differance being >true or inverting
>cable drivers.
We'll get to that a little later :-)
>As for the 55613 GMR-1 board, I have no idea on this item. I'm >stumped,
>and thats not too easy. Its not listed in my HP interface >manuals.
>(to test a HP 1000 CPU, set the A register to 100000 octal, set the P
> >register to 000000 and open the front panel. Switch the Lock/Operate
> >switch to Lock, then press
Was able to locate the DOCS for the ROM on the /~AEK/ site and ran the
diagnostics (as indicated above). Everything checks out OK.
>The Natel 2101 R/D converter also stumps me, is this a third party >I/O
>board?
>From the research I've done, it appears that "R/D Converter" indicates a
"Resolver to Data converter. It was probably used in a some kinda robotic or
motion controller application.
>Now then, a tape reader emulator...
>
>My emulator uses a PIC 16C65A to talk to the microcircuit interface >board,
>and a bank of EPROMs that hold images of the paper tapes. I >also have
>modes to read from a generic paper tape reader, or from an >application
>running on a PC (PC application not working yet).
>If all you need is to boot HP Basic, I can build you a simple >version of
>the emulator, or simply send you schematics and >pre-programmed PIC and
>EPROM chips, at your preferance.
Hmm... Once I get the system talking to a serial interface, I'll investigate
further. From what I understand, the TAPE READER protocol is pretty simple
so, I may be able to hack something together. I'll let you know when I get
this far.
>If these systems have the HP 7970E tape drive, thats a sturdy, >reliable
>tape drive that is not too hard to get running with simple >assembly
>language programs. I have one, and would reccomend it to >any HP
>collector. Nothing says vintage like spinning mag tape and >blinking
>lights!
I have several HP 7978 (HP-IB) tape drives that I use on my "classic" 3000s
and 9000 HP-UX boxes. Those are really sweet drives! Not sure if they're
compatible with the 1000 or not?
>Lastly, if you have any interest in assembly language programming on >your
>HP machine, I can email you a DOS executable version of the >original HP
>assembler.
Downloaded the assembler (hpasm.c) from Jeff's site. Had no problem
compiling or running it on my 9000. I've been using it while trying to get
the serial interface going.
Also downloaded the e21.c emulator but, wouldn't build on my box.
---
/usr/ccs/bin/ld: Unsatisfied symbols:
kbhit (code)
---
Really haven't had time to investigate.
Thanks again, SteveRob
_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
I have read it, it's on my bookshelf. PALs were still just
starting to be seriously used in the very late 70s with an
increase into the 80s, it was the cost vs board real estate
vs reliability issue. The testability/reliability issues took
a few years to gain engineers confidence.
Allison
-----Original Message-----
From: Pete Turnbull <pete(a)dunnington.u-net.com>
To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Date: Tuesday, December 25, 2001 9:05 PM
Subject: Re: PALs (was Re: MITS 2SIO serial chip?)
>On Dec 25, 12:22, Ethan Dicks wrote:
>> --- ajp166 <ajp166(a)bellatlantic.net> wrote:
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: Ben Franchuk <bfranchuk(a)jetnet.ab.ca>
>> > >> Sure its trivial to do now but we were talking 1981 when PALS
were
>> > >> expensive.
>> >
>> It depends on what your limited resource is and how costly _that_ is.
>> ISTR PALs were $2-$10 each c. 1981-1982. If someone remembers
>differently,
>> please supply more accurage data. Yes, a single PAL cost more than
>several
>> TTL popcorn chips, but given how much you could fold into a single PAL
in
>> the way of I/O select logic (a common use on the board I first
>encountered
>> PALs on), it wasn't so expensive then.
>>
>> > Yes, they were compared to random logic, but if board space was
costly
>> > they were cheaper.
>>
>> Or if board space was a fixed resource, then it's doubly costly. The
>> oldest example I can cite from personal experience is the COMBOARD-I
>> to COMBOARD-II design. Both were early examples of 68000 designs (an
>> intellegent Unibus serial periperal)... one with SRAM (2114s) and TTL
>> logic, the other with DRAMs and PALs. One similarity - about 1.5 sq
ft.
>> of board space to cram in a CPU, RAM, support logic, a sync serial
port
>> (based on the COM5025) a parallel port and Unibus DMA logic.
>>
>> In 1981, our designers went with older tech, but the DMA engine was
>> horribly complicated from the standpoint of the 68000, but it was in
part
>> because there wasn't enough room on the board for a better design with
>> TTL. The second revision (c. 1983-1984) had more onboard I/O, and
>> implemented the DMA engine as a bank of shared memory to the 68000
(i.e.,
>> read/write to a certain range of memory from your code and it
>automatically
>> generates a Unibus DMA cycle - most cool). I don't know for a fact,
but
>> from what I remember about the designs, I don't think a shared-memory
DMA
>> engine would have fit on a Unibus board if it had been made out of
>popcorn
>> logic.
>>
>> > >I never heard about pal's until about 1990...
>> >
>> > PALS are 1970s technology, really old to some of us.
>>
>> I didn't see PALs in use until the early 1980s. Yes, I know they came
>> out in 1978, but products designed with them didn't hit right away.
>
>You should read Tracy Kidder's book, The Soul of a New Machine. It
>describes the design of the Eagle inside Data General from early 1978 to
>early 1980, and mentions PALs a lot.
>
>--
>Pete Peter Turnbull
> Network Manager
> University of York
On Dec 25, 12:22, Ethan Dicks wrote:
> --- ajp166 <ajp166(a)bellatlantic.net> wrote:
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Ben Franchuk <bfranchuk(a)jetnet.ab.ca>
> > >> Sure its trivial to do now but we were talking 1981 when PALS were
> > >> expensive.
> >
> It depends on what your limited resource is and how costly _that_ is.
> ISTR PALs were $2-$10 each c. 1981-1982. If someone remembers
differently,
> please supply more accurage data. Yes, a single PAL cost more than
several
> TTL popcorn chips, but given how much you could fold into a single PAL in
> the way of I/O select logic (a common use on the board I first
encountered
> PALs on), it wasn't so expensive then.
>
> > Yes, they were compared to random logic, but if board space was costly
> > they were cheaper.
>
> Or if board space was a fixed resource, then it's doubly costly. The
> oldest example I can cite from personal experience is the COMBOARD-I
> to COMBOARD-II design. Both were early examples of 68000 designs (an
> intellegent Unibus serial periperal)... one with SRAM (2114s) and TTL
> logic, the other with DRAMs and PALs. One similarity - about 1.5 sq ft.
> of board space to cram in a CPU, RAM, support logic, a sync serial port
> (based on the COM5025) a parallel port and Unibus DMA logic.
>
> In 1981, our designers went with older tech, but the DMA engine was
> horribly complicated from the standpoint of the 68000, but it was in part
> because there wasn't enough room on the board for a better design with
> TTL. The second revision (c. 1983-1984) had more onboard I/O, and
> implemented the DMA engine as a bank of shared memory to the 68000 (i.e.,
> read/write to a certain range of memory from your code and it
automatically
> generates a Unibus DMA cycle - most cool). I don't know for a fact, but
> from what I remember about the designs, I don't think a shared-memory DMA
> engine would have fit on a Unibus board if it had been made out of
popcorn
> logic.
>
> > >I never heard about pal's until about 1990...
> >
> > PALS are 1970s technology, really old to some of us.
>
> I didn't see PALs in use until the early 1980s. Yes, I know they came
> out in 1978, but products designed with them didn't hit right away.
You should read Tracy Kidder's book, The Soul of a New Machine. It
describes the design of the Eagle inside Data General from early 1978 to
early 1980, and mentions PALs a lot.
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Network Manager
University of York
On December 21, Tony Duell wrote:
> > Today I stopped at a thrift and found a Blue/White metal device made by
> > ISD and can't really figure it out. It has a place burn a chip and the
> > one in it is ISD 1016 AP; a four inch speaker at the top and on the
>
> IIRC the ISD... chips were non-volatile, speech-quality audio storage
> devices. Not digitised speech, they used different charge levels in
> E2PROM-like cells to store analogue qunatities.
I've used these chips in a few projects recently. They work very well
and are easy to interface to PIC microcontrollers.
Definitely neat stuff. I'm surprised they were able to get any sort
of amplitude range from those nonvolatile cells, but they seem to have
perfected it.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf
On December 17, UberTechnoid wrote:
> My Sparcstation 4/330 has a bank of ten (or so) red leds in a row. These
> light in varios patterns to indicate which self test is being conducted at
> power on. After this, the leds 'race' back and forth faster or slower
> depending on the CPU load. Unfortunately, this cool load meter doesn't work
> in netbsd or openbsd, only in Solaris.
>
> My Vaxstation 4000/60 has an 8 (or so) red led that also posts codes at
> power on but nothing else in either vms or in netbsd.
>
> I recompiled the netbsd 1.5.2 kernel to enable the led on the Sparc.....and
> nothing still.
>
> Why on earth would Sun put a cool set of leds UNDERNEATH the cover? I mean,
> you might as well put it out there.
The "LEDs on the spine of the board" design goes back to the earlier
rackmount chassis, in which one could walk behind the racks and see
the LEDs.
The NetBSD LED support isn't for those LEDs, if memory serves...I
believe it's only for the front panel LED on the SPARCstations, which
is also controlled by software.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf
On December 20, John Lawson wrote:
> Just a quick (dumb) question: is this 'tinning' silver? Or Green? In
> other words, has the solder itself actually flaked off the trace (meaning
> it never bonded in the first place) or has the 'paint' coating called the
> solder mask, which is usually green, come off, revealing the trace beneath
> it? This very common, and Ethan is right, it should be carefully re-tinned
> to avoid long-term corrosion.
I have a bottle of this really neat stuff that I bought at Active
Electronics when I lived in Maryland. It's a clear liquid that, when
brushed or poured over copper, deposits a layer of silvery metal (tin
I assume) on the surface of the copper...nearly instantaneously. It
just seems to plate out of solution onto the copper. It's most
interesting to watch. It was sold with the printed circuit board
fabrication materials, obviously intended for post-etching tinning of
the remaining copper.
I don't quite recall what it was called; it's still packed up from
my move. But it was really neat stuff.
-Dave
PS - Happy holidays to all my fellow classiccmp'ers!! May your days
be filled with tons of good food and your nights be filled with
blinkenlights and elegant non-x86 instruction sets.
--
Dave McGuire
St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf
