test-drb December 2001

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

243 participants
1096 discussions

by Innfogra＠aol.com

In a message dated 12/29/01 3:15:45 PM Pacific Standard Time, geoffr(a)zipcon.net writes: > > > This is going back into a very fuzzy memory...but does anyone know if > > > an Archive 2150S drive (QIC-150) will read QIC-24 tapes? Those drives > > > are pretty common, and they're standard SCSI so they don't require > > > less common interface hardware. And, I think I have one. :-) > > 2150S will read a QIC24 tape just fine. > Most any 60 meg, 150 meg and IIRC 525 meg drives will read QIC-24, Serial Recorded Magnetic Tape Cartridge for Information Interchange (9 tracks, 10,000 FTPI, GCR, 60 MB) Here is a link to the QIC Standards. http://www2.qic.org/qic/html/qicstan.html QUIC-02 & QIC-36 are interface standards and should not be confused with QIC-24 which is a format for information interchange. The QIC-02 interface 150 meg drive should work if you have a QIC-02 controller in your computer. SCSI drives are easier. An Archive 2150S should work fine. Paxton Astoria, OR

23 years, 11 months

Try it!!!! (Was - Re: One More PCB Dishwasher Question)

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

From: Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) <cisin(a)xenosoft.com> >And where can I get a dish^H^H^H^Hboard washer that STARTS at 150 degrees? >Mine takes a while to flush the cold water through the system before it >starts spraying hot. When I turn on a "HOT" water faucet, in MY house, it >takes it close to a minute to come up to temperature. One of the >consequences of long pipes and not sharing plumbing with a lot of other >people. Thank you for pointing out the most practical matter of it all. Allison

23 years, 11 months

Try it!!!! (Was - Re: One More PCB Dishwasher Question)

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

From: William Donzelli <aw288(a)osfn.org> >I would think the thermal shock of the chips hitting the hot water would >be a failure mechanism. Hot air and hot water are different things, even >at the same temperature. The thermal resistance of a water to ceramic (or Not an issue as the temps are well blow boiling (nominal 145f). >plastic) junction is much, much lower, than one with air, so during the >first seconds of the wash cycle, the chips go from ambient >temperature to something rather high. Lots of stress results, especially >if only some of the chip's package gets wet. Preheating the boards would >help reduce the shock greatly, but home dishwashers do not do that (not a >good idea to cook the food onto the plates before trying to wash them!). Not required. >The above is one of the reasons why liquid cooled electronics are a bit >tricky. The cooling units *never* just start pumping cold water when the >power is applied. There is always a stabilization period, so the shock is >reduced. Some do, other run the cooling first and let the coolant temp climb to operating temp gradually. Others preheat the coolant to working temp so the system can come on line faster. Allison

23 years, 11 months

AVAILABLE-- PDP, DEC parts

by LFessen106＠aol.com

In a message dated 12/28/01 7:50:09 PM Eastern Standard Time, rschaefe(a)gcfn.org writes: > I talked to a man named Jon Ikoniak at temple.edu in PA not too long ago. > Seems he has a large collection of old DEC gear he inherited from a > predecessor. He said that a lot of the complete units have been gobbled up, > but there are still a few racks > left, and lots of drives and parts. They appear to be free. I was planning > on posting his email address, but after the last virus I got from my buddy > s.ring, contact me off-list for email or a voice number. I would be interested in information. I actually live close by.

23 years, 11 months

Tape drive needed

by fernande＠internet1.net

The other day I found a SCO Open Desktop 2.0.0 media kit, on Qic24 tape. I don't have the correct drive...... I don't have any tape drive experience, actually. Does anybody have an unneeded Qic24 SCSI tape drive? I checked Ebay and I didn't see anything that I thought was what I needed. I wish this were on cd..... that would be easy! Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA

23 years, 11 months

Jumper settings needed for Heath H-27 disk controller

by erd_6502＠yahoo.com

As I've mentioned before, I have a Heathkit H-11 with standard Heathkit disk controller. The disk controller locks up the CPU if it's in place in the interrupt chain (it will begin the boot process if it's behind all the cards with a gap in the grant chain, but after loading the boot sector and turning on interrupts, the OS, naturally, won't run). So... I have tested all the TTL chips in a chip tester. What I can't test are the 88xx bus chips. From tracing the grant pins, I think the 8837 is what hangs off the interrupt lines. I have finally found some (unsoldered) loose replacements. What I still lack are schematics or at least a jumper map. The jumpers have been soldered and cut and resoldered before I received the card. As a result, I have no idea what they are supposed to be set at. Does anyone know the state of the jumpers for default operation? Thanks, -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com

23 years, 11 months

Try it!!!! (Was - Re: One More PCB Dishwasher Question)

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

From: Ben Franchuk <bfranchuk(a)jetnet.ab.ca> >While you hear a lot about 'classic' common old CPU's -- apple, radio >shack, >commodore do people find any homebrewed computers did that all stop when >the S-100 bus came out? No, if anything the MITS box was the kickoff. Alllison

23 years, 11 months

Interactive UNIX boxed set - free for shipping

by erd_6502＠yahoo.com

I have a set of disks and manuals for Interactive UNIX 2.0. I got it way back when my local ham radio club was big time into it. Linux eventually displaced Interactive as a favored distribution, but 10+ years ago, if you wanted SysV r3.2 for an i386, this was one of the best ways to do it. We used it largely for UUCP, but on more than one occasion, I used Vpix, the DOS environment emulator that ships as an option to Interactive UNIX, so I could run the Microsoft C compiler to produce some little command-line tool. By today's standards, it's a footnote of the OS wars. If, however, you want something which was representative of the times, it's a nice thing to have. I do not need it and am offering it to the list before discarding it. Free to good home; you pay shipping from 43202. It will be several pounds due to the quantity of paper. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com

23 years, 11 months

Try it!!!! (Was - Re: One More PCB Dishwasher Question)

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On December 29, Bob Shannon wrote: > At Media 100 Inc, we make high-end video equipment, non-linear > editors. We use very fancy TXCO's, (+/-2 ppb) and they do not Oh My. If any of those should happen to "fall out", let me know. 8-) -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf

23 years, 11 months

Try it!!!! (Was - Re: One More PCB Dishwasher Question)

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

If you consider 65f to 145f heat shocking significant then whatever you do don't turn on your PC. Seriously, that is not enough temp change and cycles, common temp shock testing {operating} is freezing water to 158F water {+70C} for many (usually hundreds of cycles). Usually the upper temp is not the operational limit but, the storage limit (in the 150C {300f} range!). Never minding what wave soldering a 16pin dip does in a room temp to molten solder step! For the average dishwasher that would likely be only one cycle of the 65-145F span as well. Again if your really that worried, don't. Reality is that anything that woud be that fussy is really fragile. The only examples of something I'd worry about down RI there is the PDP-12 a(maybe) and definatly the PB250{uses germainium transistors with low Tstorage and operating range, delay lines and other rare items}. Even then my viewing of both of those is they were very clean and not likely at issue. Allison -----Original Message----- From: William Donzelli <aw288(a)osfn.org> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> Date: Saturday, December 29, 2001 3:05 PM Subject: Re: Try it!!!! (Was - Re: One More PCB Dishwasher Question) >> Not an issue as the temps are well blow boiling (nominal 145f). > >You missed the whole point. A sudden change (as in a second or so) from >65 F to 145 F will shock a chip far more than a gradual change (15 >seconds) from 65 F to 212 F. It is the rate of change, and not the >change itself, that matters. With hot water hitting the chips instantly, >the rate of change is going to be *really* fast. It may also be uneven - >if a large chip only gets half soaked with the hot water at startup. > >William Donzelli >aw288(a)osfn.org

23 years, 11 months

What did you ask "Santa" for this year.... : )

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jan 6, 16:33, SP wrote: ^^^^^^ Someone needs to set their clock... it was Dec 22, actually > One Dilog DQ614 driver disk for RT-11. I have > one of these boards inoperative because I can't > configure it. Was it Zane or Ethan who was also looking for this? Well, it's a bit late, but I have an extra Christmas present for you guys. You'll find the diagnostic and formatter program, along with a diagram of the board, and the jumper tables, at http://www.dunnington.u-net.com/public/DQ614/ It would have been done on Christmas Eve, but my RX02 drives needed a severe talking to, along with the 11/23 they are on. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

23 years, 11 months

Wanted: One Specific Piece of Software

by r.stek＠snet.net

I may be jumping in late since I missed the original request (I get the digest version and don't always read them each day) but I have dBASE 5.5 with the compiler if that would help. Or do you need version 5 specifically? Bob Stek Saver of Lost Sols

23 years, 11 months

Try it!!!! (Was - Re: One More PCB Dishwasher Question)

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

From: Bob Shannon <bshannon(a)tiac.net> >TXCO's come from the factory with special caps you place over them while >they go through the soldering oven (modern boards don't get wave soldered anymore). Older ones were effectively sealed units with a removable screw opening that was sealed with an O-ring. Those stand dishwaser just fine. Of course many computers never have anything like a TCXO on them. >Failing to place these protective caps over the TXCO's when they go through the >wash cycle leads to a drifting oscillator that very often fails soon after its in >the field. This is to be expected with any sealed part or temperature sensitive part. Then again a reflow oven is far hotter than a dishwasher. >As the focus of the list is older machines, we need to keep things in mild like >paper roll caps, etc. Advising that running old boards through the dishwasher, >while sometimes safe, is not an absolutely safe thing to do. Actually caps like that are likely to have failed from age by now. Systems that used them are likely quite old and not of the easily dishwashed contruction for mechanical reasons other than components used. >I do agree that most often, semi-modern boards will survive the process, but there >are many components that will not. These components used to be much more common >than they are today. But as the discussion relates to this older technology, any >reccomendation to run the boards through a dishwasher should address the very real >risks. Modern as in PDP-8/11/ and vax series, flip chip and similar are certainly cleanable this way and likely were in the factory back then too. Older modular constuction of a more hand wired era may be not suitable. Then again most of the DEC wirewrapped backplanes would likely survive a dishwash but, it may be ill advised as they are mechanically fragile as those that have worked with them know. >How hot was the water? I don't know, its not something I can easily control. Is >is possible that the 'dishwashers' used for this function commercially have been >altered, and/or are connected to a lower temprature source of water? I do know >that dishes come out a bit too hot to handel unless you open the door and allow >them to cool. Generally domestic hotwater never exceeds 160f due to scalding risks for the users. Some dishwasers have reheaters to compensate for low domestic water temps but they still only shoot for 160ish (F) max, and often that can be turned off by using the economy cycle. The bake dry cycle should be avoided if there is one (or too warm). One thing we ar not talking about is temps near boiling (212f) or water that hot. >I do know its a heck of a lot hotter than any bath, after all, there is a heater >element inside the dishwasher. Usually for dry cycle, sometimes powered to compensate for low domestic water temps. Econco cyle turns if off more often than no. bath water is maybe 105-115f (Very hot!) FYI. People are susceptable to harm with water over 130f. >I'm not sure its a temprature issue, as some have assumed. A dishwasher may have >very powerful waterjets and a lot of vibration. The dammage may be mechanical, >possibly a bonding wire detachment. No, internal bonds for the parts can take that shock and likely 10X that all day. External bonds??? We are talking soldered boards not wire wrap or really old MIL spotwelded. >But I'd like to point out once again that there are a good number of components >that will be dammaged by water. Some of these have been listed in posts here >already. If we accept that some components cannot be washed in this way, how can >anyone defend a blanket statement that using a dishwasher on a board will be safe >for that board? Most of the components are of the "open" contruction and not suitable or the problem of assuring they will dry needs addressing. The average printed circuit construction used in computers often does not contain them or they are designed to allow for that kind of cleaning. Parts I worry about and see: Pots (variable resistors of enclosed design) small relays of non hermetic design DIP switches (may need replacing anyway) Power upplies in general, (other than potted units). >All those tiny little pulse transfromers on your core memory sense amplifiers, do >you know those are able to withstand this treatment? Many are not fully >encapsulated, and would not be safe to treat this way. Some components (like >crystals, not oscillators, just quartz crystals) cannot even be soldered safely, >and are socketed for this reason. Is it s good idea to run these through your >dishwasher? Soldering is high stress compared to 160f water. Also of they are socketed then by all means unplug them first then was the board. Most quartz crystals however are hermetic and can withstand significant amounts of heat. Again oen design parts have to be evaluated, most tolerate wetting well if properly dried before use. A core memory sense board fo the PDP-8e/f/m design and era tolerate this very well, then again they are of modern design. I have done it to several with at least one comming out working where it didnt' before! Cleaning prior to troubleshoot was to make life easier in that case but instead removed whatever debrie causing the inital problem. Something from the PB250 era would be more suspect, mostly due to a multitude of other reasons. I've done it as well to the PDP-8/f front pannel (rotary switch and many lamp sockets) with excellent results. It's still working well over two+ years later. >If your sure no components will be effected, go ahead and try your dishwasher. If >your not absolutely sure, or if replacement parts are hard to get, don't take the >risk, and use a little IPA and some elbow grease to clean your boards. That first half is fair advice, be sure first. The second half is faulty however as there are just as many parts that will not tolerate IPA for extended times or the residue that may be left behind if not adaquately rinsed. It's fair to use caution but, to be a nelly maid over it is usually not warrented. Allison

23 years, 11 months

Try it!!!! (Was - Re: One More PCB Dishwasher Question)

by msell＠ontimesupport.com

For those who don't believe that it's okay - prove it to yourself. Here's how: 1) Pick a dirty, filthy board that somehow seems to work, and is worth very little to you 2) Make sure it doesn't have: a) relays b) large capacitors c) transformers d) iron-core inductors e) fragile labels or core memory 3) put it in your dishwasher by itself, with no detergent (just for testing), and turn off the plate warmer and dryer 4) wash it! 5) shake off excess water after cycle finishes 6) clean - isn't it? 6) hang up to dry indoors for several days 7) plug it in. Works, doesn't it?!! And clean, too !!!!! Don't take our words for it. Try it!!!! You'll be amazed at how clean the boards get, with so little effort on your part. - Matt At 11:22 AM 12/28/2001 -0600, you wrote: >On Fri, 28 Dec 2001, Bob Shannon wrote: > > > Never run boards through a dishwasher! > >Oh no, not this thread again :) Matthew Sell Programmer On Time Support, Inc. www.ontimesupport.com (281) 296-6066 Join the Metrology Software discussion group METLIST! http://www.ontimesupport.com/cgi-bin/mojo/mojo.cgi "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er...

23 years, 11 months

Housecleaning-updated

by rcini＠optonline.net

Hello, all: Here's an update on my annual housecleaning. I've found a few more items which I've added to the list and I'm marking those which have been spoken for already. - AIM stuff - there are about 2-3 partial boards, 2 keyboards, 2 bases and 4 tops still available. - Books: * A Programmer's Viwe of the Intel 432 System (Organick) - still available * Inside Commodore DOS (Immers) - spoken for * MicroC/OS-II RTOS book with disk (Labrosse) - spoken for * Microcomputer Experimentation with the Motorola MEK6800D2 (Leventhal) - available * Motorola Microprocessor Software Catalog (1984) - available - Magazines: * Spare BYTE magazines: 1/82, 3/82, 4/82, 10/85 (2), 10/86, 11/86, 9/87. Condition is very good on some to fair on one. - Software: * MicroSolutions UniForm for the Epson QX-10 If anyone is interested in any of these remaining items, contact me off-list. I would prefer trades for these items. Thanks. Rich Rich Cini Collector of classic computers Build Master for the Altair32 Emulation Project Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ /************************************************************/

23 years, 11 months

SCO Open Desktop (was Re: Interesting find today!)

by fmc＠reanimators.org

Chad Fernandez <fernande(a)internet1.net> wrote: > I found a box of SCO Open Desktop 2.0.0. I don't know anything about At Wollongong, we had this installed on a ca. 1991 Compaq, something like a 386/20, with a monochrome VGA display. And yes, it did get most of its bits from the tape; we had an Everex QIC drive of some sort attached. I remember going through some grief to get it configured (more preceisely, re-configured after some biscuit of a QA engineer installed TWG's TCP/IP then decided he needed SCO's TCP/IP, which of course forced re-installation of the whole thing), but it was long enough ago to be on topic here and I no longer remember the details, except that I wrote them down and taped the paper to the tape drive which is long gone. Open Desktop is a SCO/Motif flavored X GUI. If you really want to use the GUI stuff, give it more oomph than Wollongong did: it was painfully slow on that Compaq. Along about 1995 the system was being used more for testing a "SCO ANSI" terminal emulation and I worked out how to make it not start X on boot, and it continued running that way (off in a corner with almost no attention) until April 1999 when Attachmate shut down the former Wollongong offices. -Frank McConnell

23 years, 11 months

DQ614: was Re: What did you ask "Santa" ...

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Dec 28, 14:30, Zane H. Healy wrote: > Amazing! Now the question is, does anyone know which HD's will work with > this? I just might have to go digging through storage in the very near > future! The manual had a "non-exclusive" list of drives known to work; it suggested that just about anything should be OK. The formatter lets you set things like step pulse rate/seek time, heads, cylinders, etc. > The other question is, once the disk is formated, does it matter what you > use for an OS on it, or does it need to be RT-11? I was hoping to be able > to use this board for OS's that expect RL02's instead of MSCP disks. As far as I know, once the drive is formatted, it uses the standard driver. Assuming the formatting stores the setup details on the drive, I don't see why it shouldn't be possible to use another OS afterwards. I no longer have my DQ614, so I can't test it for you :-( -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

23 years, 11 months

What did you ask "Santa" for this year.... : )

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Dec 28, 20:30, SP wrote: > I can't believe it. > > This success suppose to me to change some of my > thinkings about the life, the religion and other matters. > By example: Santa Claus exists ? Etcetera. > > But, by the moment, in case this driver works, I can put > you in my list of fortunate with one bottle of Red Wine > from Spain, variety Rioja. I hope it works -- I like Rioja! Seriously, let me know how you get on with it. Make sure the files you download are the right size. DQ614P.SAV should be exactly 27648 bytes and DL.SAV (which is the driver for RT-11 V5.04 *only*) should be exactly 2048 bytes. If they come out differently, either use Netscape on a Unix box to download, or ask me to put copies somewhere else for FTP. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

23 years, 11 months

[rescue] Indigo sans front cover

by vance＠ikickass.org

Speaking of doors to SGI's, I am in need of a front door to a deskside Onyx. Peace... Sridhar On Fri, 28 Dec 2001, Bruce Pullig wrote: > Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 21:42:53 -0600 > From: Bruce Pullig <bruce(a)pullig.com> > Reply-To: rescue(a)sunhelp.org > To: SunRescue <rescue(a)sunhelp.org> > Subject: Re: [rescue] Indigo sans front cover > > I found my Indigo front door. (has XS24 on the front) If you want it, let > me know where to ship it. > > Bruce > > -- > Bruce, Lorelei & Nathaniel Pullig > bruce(a)pullig.com > lorelei(a)pullig.com > nathaniel(a)pullig.com > www.pullig.com, www.pullig.org > _______________________________________________ > rescue maillist - rescue(a)sunhelp.org > http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/rescue >

23 years, 11 months

*DUH* Unibus KZQSA - try QBUS

by msell＠ontimesupport.com

Told you I was "DEC Challenged".... KZQSA is Q-BUS, not Unibus.... (sigh) - Matt Matthew Sell Programmer On Time Support, Inc. www.ontimesupport.com (281) 296-6066 Join the Metrology Software discussion group METLIST! http://www.ontimesupport.com/cgi-bin/mojo/mojo.cgi "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er...

23 years, 11 months

Power Series

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Tothwolf [mailto:tothwolf@concentric.net] > The video really was nice for its day, but a lack of texture memory > somewhat limits it for today's graphics intensive software. Well, on one hand, yes, but on the other hand, I like my Indigo 2 Elan with no texture memory just fine. I'm also considering trying to dig up a reality engine for the thing, at which point it would have texture memory. > What color is the wrap-around part on the front/top of the > machine? The > standard colors that I'm familiar with are; blue for a VGX, > red for a GTX, > and green for GT. It's blue. Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

23 years, 11 months

add-on CPU load meters

by brian＠quarterbyte.com

There was an analog CPU meter on a PDP 11/70 in the Computer Graphics Lab at UC San Francisco back in the late 70's. The meter was mounted in the middle of a large black & beige plastic rack fill-in plate. I thought it was hilarious, and very cool. It has to be an analog meter. I dimly remember seeing the schematic. The meter was wired up as a dwell meter, and hooked up to some signal in the CPU that indicated that it was running, or at least running usefully. I can't remember if it was the user-mode bit, or "not wait". IIRC Unix V7 ran an idle process so the CPU never waited. I think it was the user-mode bit. Anyway, the circuit was simple. They buffered the CPU signal, smoothed it through a resistor and a capacitor, and that drove the panel meter. You just have to work out the appropriate values for the series resistor, capacitor and load resistor to get appropriate scaling and timing. I've always wanted one... wonder if there's an appropriate pin to monitor on a TBird?

23 years, 11 months

AVAILABLE-- PDP, DEC parts

by rschaefe＠gcfn.org

I talked to a man named Jon Ikoniak at temple.edu in PA not too long ago. Seems he has a large collection of old DEC gear he inherited from a predecessor. He said that a lot of the complete units have been gobbled up, but there are still a few racks left, and lots of drives and parts. They appear to be free. I was planning on posting his email address, but after the last virus I got from my buddy s.ring, contact me off-list for email or a voice number. ja ne Bob

23 years, 11 months

NCD 88k Boot monitor

by darek-ss＠wp.pl

Hi, I've got recently 2 old, but very good NCD Xstations 88k & 88kP6 based on Motorola 88100 processor. It looks great, much better than what they are selling know :-) But unfortunately they are without Boot Manager EPROMS ... Does anyone could help me and tell where I can find such EPROM or just the image file which I can use to program one ? As far as I know BM from HMX & HMXPro doesn't work because it is made for R4xxx processor. Darek ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Tylko przez Nowy Kontakt porozmawiasz przez inne komunikatory! Poznaj 100mln nowych znajomych! Kliknij! < http://kontakt.wp.pl >

23 years, 11 months

VAX 4000-200's on eBay.de

by wilby98＠yahoo.com

Thank you for taking the time to do the translation. As it turned out the bidding went too high for me. It's too bad because I dont often see items like this offered that often here in Europe. If this is an example of the prices an item sells for on eBay, I think I will have to depend on other means of finding an affordable, classic. Bill Amsterdam, NL On Fri, Dec 28, 2001 at 12:02:29PM +0100, The Wanderer wrote: > Hi, > > The text says > > 2 VAX-VMS computers Digital 4000-200 > > Model 660-QR) with the following config: > 16Mb ram, KA660-AA cpu, 200MB HD, 296 MB TK70 tapeunit & network > connection. > > With it belongs 2 VT420 terminals and console switch as well as all the > necessary > cabling. This machine is from the 89/90 era and is a solid machine. > Both machines were running until the middle of last year as a production > cluster > under VMS control. It can however also run NetBSD. > > picture <snip>

23 years, 11 months

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test-drb December 2001