test-drb December 2001

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

243 participants
1096 discussions

[PDP8-Lovers] how to clean a PDP8/A, dishwasher?

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On December 15, Boatman on the River of Suck wrote: > > > I know that a good percentage of you are skeptical. Every one of my > > > games in my arcade collection had at least the CPU boardset in the > > > dishwasher. Several others had every single board through the wash. > > > All of them work, and did so before going into the dishwasher and > > > immediately after drying. Others had the monitors powerwashed. I took > > > an entire 11/780 out into my driveway and I powerwashed the chassis > > > AND backplane! > > > > I thought we weren't supposed to use the dishwasher on anything with > > capacitors. > > It's fine, as long as the capacitors aren't charged. ...and as long as they're not paper capacitors. Most paper capacitors are dipped in wax, but that won't always make a perfect waterproof seal. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf

24 years

HP Piecemeal auction ?

by CLeyson＠aol.com

Anybody have a spare HP 9825 16-bit hybrid processor ? I have a machine that needs one. Best regards Chris Leyson

24 years

Hardest to Find Classic Computers

by mythtech＠Mac.com

>What are the hardest to find Classic Computers? I would have to go for the Lisa, and the Mac TV. I see both on ebay from time to time, but never at a price I personally can afford (but at affordable "collector" prices, usually around $200 for a Mac TV). I think the Mac TV gets special mention, because it is VERY hard to find a properly complete one, one that has the black keyboard and mouse, and even harder to find one with manuals and CDs (although a totally complete, just shy the packing materials one just sold on ebay for a little over $200 IIRC on the price). There were enough made and sold commercially that it should be out of your restrictions (I remember them being available new at the local Computer City when they came out). And I might also include a TAM (20th Anniversaty Mac), but I haven't searched enough to know for sure that they are hard to get (when I do look, if they are there, they usually sell for $1500, which puts them WAY out of my price range, so I don't look very often) >Also not intended as the thrust of the topic: > Systems you most of all want Unfortuantly, all three of my mentions fall into this catagory... but then, if they weren't hard for me to find, I would have one of each already, and then I wouldn't want them... so I guess by default, the hard to find are going to be the ones I most want. Anything outside Mac stuff, I dont pay enough attention to to know if it is hard to find (I can tell you a few things that AREN'T hard to find... 486's, 14" VGAs and inkjet printers out the ass in the local curbside pickups) -c

24 years

Hardest to Find Classic Computers (Was: RE: Way OT: Just say

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

They generally go for fairly big bucks. I sold two of them (HP 88780B drives) about a year ago for around $350/ea. They're all over...just not for free. -Dave On December 14, Christopher Smith wrote: > Right. I know they exist... just can't find them. :) > > Regards, > > Chris > > Christopher Smith, Perl Developer > Amdocs - Champaign, IL > > /usr/bin/perl -e ' > print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); > ' > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Eric Dittman [mailto:dittman@dittman.net] > > Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 1:37 PM > > To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org > > Subject: Re: Hardest to Find Classic Computers (Was: RE: Way OT: Just > > say > > > > > > > Do peripherals count too? If so, try finding a 9-track > > drive that doesn't > > > take up as much room as your fridge. Any EDSI hardware and > > controllers have > > > been very elusive to me as well. > > > > Actually, there are some table-top 9-track drives. There is > > a limit on how > > small a 9-track drive can be since you have to accommodate > > two large reels. > > > > In fact, next week I'm picking up a table-top 9-track SCSI > > drive for $75. > -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf

24 years

Is there no end

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On December 14, Pat Finnegan wrote: > I am pretty sure it runs on some IBM PPC proc... At least that's what I > gathered when IBM sent some guy to give what amounted to a sales pitch to > our LUG. Could be wrong, but I dont really think so. BTW I mean MODERN > eg. zSeries, not old. Umm, not as far as I'm aware, no. The S/390 is a mainframe architecture, not a large microprocessor-based system. While I have a lot of respect for PPC processors, they don't have quite *that* much horsepower. > Anyways, IBM did have their S/390 on a card that > they sold with their P/390 'developer's systems' in the early 90s. I'd > imagine those used a microprocessor... I have one in front of me. It's not a PPC. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf

24 years

if you hadn't already known this about the PDP-8

by gunther＠aurora.regenstrief.org

Hi, I found this really interesting: The PDP-8 has no concept of a stack. It does have sub-routines though. Instead of pushing the instruction pointer onto a stack, it's being written at the location to which the call is directed (first address of the subroutine). Then a return is simply an indirect jump to that first address of the subroutine. This is hillarious! Wasn't the notion of a stack arond already before 1965? The coolest thing is that inspite of this "unique" way of handling subroutines, the PDP-8 had a timesharing system TSS-8. I suppose they could not share code segments then, so if three users were doing FOCAL, they would have 3 instances of the FOCAL code in memory (or swapping in and out to disk.) And all this at maximally 32 kB of memory! Amazing. I just wonder how the kernel calls were handled. The kernel was called "Monitor." That may be the revealing piece of it: perhaps the Monitor was a monitor, so only one thread could ever execute any of the monitor's code at the same time. That raises a last question: what was first, the TSS-8 kernel called "Monitor" or the operating system technical term "monitor"? Dijkstra's classic semaphore paper was back in 1968, and my "new" Introduction to Programming book is printed 1968 too. AFAIK the monitor construct is younger than the semaphore, right? So, could it be that the technical term "monitor" comes from taking the functioning of the TSS-8 kernel as a paradigma? fun stuff, isn't it? -Gunther PS: I think one could emulate something like a stack on the PDP-8 using the auto-increment registers in the PDP-8's zero page. Of course it would work without them, but it may make the one of the operations push or pop more efficient... -- Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow(a)regenstrief.org Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care Adjunct Assistant Professor Indiana University School of Medicine tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org

24 years

if you hadn't already known this about the PDP-8

by msell＠ontimesupport.com

Serial terminals have worked with Linux for a few years now. Heck, in the 1.x days I was running serial terminals under Linux, and even using modems and VT100 emulators on PC's on the other end..... - Matt >I believe Linux will now run with a serial terminal. NetBSD certainly >does. > > > Thirdly, is there any good reason why you can't use a serial terminal > > linked to an RS232 port any more? In which case the PC wouldn't need a > > video card at all, unless it needs one to pass the POST (and you don't > > know how to patch the bios to get round it). > >This should work just fine. You just have to compile the kernel with the >necessary options. > >Peace... Sridhar Matthew Sell Programmer On Time Support, Inc. www.ontimesupport.com (281) 296-6066 Join the Metrology Software discussion group METLIST! http://www.ontimesupport.com/cgi-bin/mojo/mojo.cgi "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er...

24 years

Color Coding, A/C (Mains) Leads, USA ONLY, Redux

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> The blade that's keeping you from fitting it into a USA 15A > 120V outlet > should be the neutral. Sorry I wasn't clear, my custom-made A/C line has a box with two duplex outlets that match the line cord. And thanks to everyone who chimed in, it turns out my cord is wired correctly to the PSU. And the line tester from Radio Shack says the line is correct and not reversed and properly grounded. Gott be something else... -dq

24 years

Hardest to Find Classic Computers

by mythtech＠Mac.com

>Just because you cannot afford them does not mean they are hard to find. >The fact that you do see them on eBay from time to time actually means >that they are more common than you think. Lisa's are not at all "rare", >despite what the geographically challenged claim. However, it depends on >what model of Lisa we are talking about. Around here (NJ) Lisa's (any model) and Mac TV's are rare, at least as far as what I have found... and that goes beyond eBay (ebay isn't regional, local used shops, garage sales, junk yards, newspaper ads, flea markets... those are all regional). It is quite possible these things are readily available else where in the world, but here, they are not. If there is some magic land where these things go apleanty, PLEASE fill me in, as I would love to get them for shipping cost or just above... but I asked about that once before on this list when I was told shortages of lisa's were a regional thing... and no one told me where to get one, or offered me one... so I tend to think, there is no land of pleanty outside of collector mythos. As for affording them, that was just commented on because IIRC one of the criteria was that they should be collector affordable. I myself can't afford squat, but the prices I have seen them go for, when I have seen them (which happens to ONLY be online stores/auctions... ebay included) they are affordable for an average collector... I am just a very destitute collector so I have always had to pass on them. I am very sure that they are much more readily available than many other systems (as evidenced by the fact that they show up at all on ebay), but like I ended my first email with... outside of mac stuff, I really don't pay attention, so I can't say what is rare. That basically means, my rare statements were perspective of Mac's, and NOT of the entire computer field. -c

24 years

Color Coding, A/C (Mains) Leads, USA ONLY, Redux

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

Hello, This topic was rehashed not too long ago, but rather than read 6 weeks worth of thread on it, let me star it again. I have a PSU, the input leads (part of the EMI filter I think) are labeled L, G, and N. G is I am sure, the ground. Of N and L (beutral and low?), which goes to thewhite wire, and which goes to the black wire? The A/C cord is a 20amp type with the two blades at 90 degrees to each other as in "| -". Thanks, -doug q

24 years

Flashing Light Indicators un Simple Front Panels

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

Hello again, Many of you are into PDP-11, both the blinkenlights variety and the simpler dump front panels, as well as VAXen and such with console-based front panels. Do any of these machines, if they have a really bad problem that might preclude the use of the console, flash an LED to mean something? In particular, do any of you have familiarity with systems that flash the on or power light as an indicattor, sopecifiecally, of a power supply problem? Would anyone venture what a 2 Hz flash rate on the ON LED of a Prime might mean? Thanks again, -doug q

24 years

Hardest to Find Classic Computers

by Innfogra＠aol.com

The Lilith & the Tektronix Magnolia. These I regret not hanging on to. I have never seen another. I still have a Lilith mouse. Paxton

24 years

On Sequent Symmetry S81 and PC Jr.

by csmith＠amdocs.com

Since these two are probably the only not-yet-functional machines I haven't posted questions to this list about, I've decided to ask about them. Easy one first: Can anybody give me the pinout of the power-connector for the PC-Jr. I don't have a power cord. Failing that, has anyone got a spare? :) (If I understand properly, the power supply is inside, and the power running through the cord should be AC, right?) Next, the hard part: I have a Sequent Symmetry S81. It's in need of at least the following: CPU boards RAM boards Drives, but I can probably handle that... A version of DYNIX which will support it (likely on QIC-120) For those of you who don't know it, this is a 1987 model mini that used Intel CPUs in parallel. Up to 30 (IIRC) 386/16 cpus, on boards which contain sets of two could be used. Each CPU had a dedicated Weitek co-processor, too. I believe it was UMA/shared memory. I also believe that the peripheral bus was VME. I have quite a set of boards in that bus right now, whatever it is, and would be interested in any help I could get in cataloging them and figuring out what I've got. I believe that the system was board-for-board compatible with the S27, and the only difference was the enclosure. Speaking of which, I could also use help in determining whether I can hope to get this running on normal wall-power. The system is built-in to a rack, which has an inch-thick cord (no plug :/) coming out of it. It seems on the inside of the rack that the power is broken out into something more manageable, and, IIRC, 115 - 120 volts. (It's been a while since I've pulled it out and looked.) I would like to get this system working, so... Does anyone know where to find parts or system software? Is there anyone who could possibly help me ID some of the parts already in the system? I'll try to get all the serial numbers, etc, from the boards if there are any takers. What are my chances of getting this thing to run off of wall-power without blowing anything up? Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

24 years

Another odd-ball/almost classic computer...8 yr old...

by DAW＠yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu

Just found this in a box... Has anyone here ever heard of a Gateway 2000 Handbook computer? It's like a palmtop/laptop computer, 10"x6"x1.5"... using a Chips & Tech. 8680 "PC on a chip". It has the 2MB RAM upgrade, to bring it to a whopping 3MB! And would you look at that, 40MB HDD... With the null modem cable, it would make a great ultra-portable terminal... --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818

24 years

Cats around computers

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> I had a hard time finding beef tongue or brains in the U.S. These are > considered a delicacy in many other places. %-) In this part of the midwest, pork brains are a bit more common than beef brains... dad loved 'em, I thought they were cool to look at, but never tried 'em. I hope we don't drift into discussing that strangest beef organ meat of all... ;)

24 years

Cats around computers

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On December 14, Chad Fernandez wrote: > Dave, did you have to close your eyes during the "Chilled monkey brain" > scene in Indiana Jones :-) YES. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL

24 years

MITS 2SIO serial chip?

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

From: Richard Erlacher <edick(a)idcomm.com> > >The 8250 was a fine chip for the application, though I wonder why they used the >DIP version. There were better choices available, but they didn't want to lose In 1981 there was only the DIP version as surface mount was not a widespread technology yet. >the serial port board business by putting two of them on the same card, and by >that time serial I/O chips tended to have between 2 and 8 ports on them. In 1981 they did exist, those with more than two ports didn't have second source and they werent cheap. The 8274 ( the 8088 bus version of the Zilog SIO) was about 4 times the cost of the 8250(in the fall of 1981) though it was a far better part and intel would have loved the business. What's funny is my Leading Edge Model D PC clone used 8251 and put all the video, floppy, printer and COM1 on the mother board. In my book the clones often {but, not always} improved a dumb design. Allison

24 years

if you hadn't already known this about the PDP-8

by DAW＠yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu

! From: Boatman on the River of Suck [mailto:vance@ikickass.org] ! ! ! On Fri, 14 Dec 2001, David Woyciesjes wrote: ! ! > Sridhar --- ! > I might be able to use your help soon... I have a Cardinal ! > Technologies PC10. It's a 386, with a 10" color (?) screen, ! > and it's built ! > just like a Mac SE! It's mfg in May '92, so it's almost ! > on-topic. Has anyone ! > seen one of these, or know of any docs for it? ! > I'm wondering if I should put DOS6.22/Win3.11, or ! > NetBSD on it. Of ! > course, I still have a Win95 CD around. Maybe I could ! > shoe-horn that on! ! ! I would stay away from Windows95, as it runs *really* *really* slow on ! 386's. Do you know how fast of a 386 and how much RAM? It ! would help in ! my telling you whether or not NetBSD will work well. Yeah, the Win95 comment was more of a wise-ass joke :) As for the details on the PC10, I'm gonna fire it up next week, and connect the Handbook to it, to back up the Handbook. It (the Handbook) has MS Interlink on it! Heh heh heh... --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818

24 years

Is there no end

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On December 14, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > Back in those days, many people were skeptical about using a non-Intel > > processor when running Windows. > > > > There was a big marketing effort by the likes of Cyrix, AMD, and whoever > > made the "WinChip" to convince people that those processors would run > > Windows okay. > > Well, I suppose every chip must aspire to mediocrity. :-P Wait...woudn't that make it a "LoseChip"? ;) -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL

24 years

Is there no end

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On December 14, Russ Blakeman wrote: > It was put on there to basically state that it works well with MS Windows, > not only with MS Windows. Perhaps so, but that's not what it *says*. "Made for Microsoft Windows" implies much more than "Works with Microsoft Windows". I wouldn't be surprised if AMD got a substantial amount of money >from Microsoft to paste that sticker on those chips. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL

24 years

if you hadn't already known this about the PDP-8

by DAW＠yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu

Sridhar --- I might be able to use your help soon... I have a Cardinal Technologies PC10. It's a 386, with a 10" color (?) screen, and it's built just like a Mac SE! It's mfg in May '92, so it's almost on-topic. Has anyone seen one of these, or know of any docs for it? I'm wondering if I should put DOS6.22/Win3.11, or NetBSD on it. Of course, I still have a Win95 CD around. Maybe I could shoe-horn that on! --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 ! -----Original Message----- ! From: Boatman on the River of Suck [mailto:vance@ikickass.org] ! Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 10:22 PM ! To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org ! Subject: Re: if you hadn't already known this about the PDP-8 ! ! ! On Thu, 13 Dec 2001, Jeffrey S. Sharp wrote: ! ! > On Thu, 13 Dec 2001, Tony Duell wrote: ! > ! > > Since when has linux needed a video display card at all, ! let alone one ! > > with 16M of RAM? ! > ! > I'm pretty good at making small distros of FreeBSD. Some ! people like me ! > have gotten in to run in 4MB. The least I have ever done ! is 8MB. And ! > it's not unbearably slow on a 25MHz 386 embedded card. I ! suspect Linux is ! > similar. ! ! I've gotten NetBSD running fairly well in 2 MB. ! ! Peace... Sridhar !

24 years

Way OT: Just say no to squirrels & Pascal question

by acme_ent＠bellsouth.net

> From: Dave McGuire <mcguire(a)neurotica.com> > On December 13, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > > > Rodents *are* chewy... have you never had squirrel? > > > > > > NO. And I hope I NEVER get that hungry. > > > > Hey, it's not like I was playing Hannibal Lector to > > old Rocket J. himself... > > Yes, but still...NOT FOOD. ;) > > -Dave I'm with Dave. If I'm that hungry, I'll find out what the squirrels are eating (such as nuts), and eat the same thing! As I child I visited some of my hilljack relatives in the Appalachians and saw them eat these rodents. They especially enjoyed eating the brains. Blechhhh . . . rats with furry tails . . . recent research has also found evidence of a mad-cow-like disease which is carried in squirrel brains . .

24 years

Is there no end

by DAW＠yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu

! From: Chris [mailto:mythtech@Mac.com] ! ! ! Ugh... this takes the cake. ! ! I was pulling apart a 486 logic board, and I pulled the heat ! sink off the ! chip... to be greated with an AMD 486 chip with "Made for Microsoft ! Windows" and the Windows logo stamped on it. ! ! What... no other OS is supposed to use an intel compatible ! processor?!? I ! am sure anyone that bought this chip to use with any other OS ! probably ! paid an MS tax because of that stamp! ! ! Just for that, I think I might see if I can get my Intel build of ! Rhapsody to install on it. ! ! Ok, so it isn't 10 years or older, but at least you people ! can understand ! the pain. Chris --- I've seen quite a few of those around here at work. In fact, I have Win98 running on some still! Doesn't do too bad, considering they only have 32 MB RAM also... --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818

24 years

Way OT: Just say no to squirrels & Pascal question

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On December 13, Don Maslin wrote: > > If you'll eat brain, you'll probably eat pickled anus on a stick to. > > Where on your scale do you put horse meat? The French love it. Heh...I wasn't going to mention this, but now I have no choice. ;) I used to say that I could sum up the French culture in two sentences: "This is the most repulsive thing I've ever seen. I think I'll put it in my mouth!" For the humor-impaired: This is a joke. No offense to any French listmembers is intended. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL

24 years

Hardest to Find Classic Computers (Was: RE: Way OT: Just say no to squirrels & Pascal question)

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

Ok, IMSAI Imp48... supposedly only 300 sold. Allison -----Original Message----- From: Douglas Quebbeman <dhquebbeman(a)theestopinalgroup.com> To: 'classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org' <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> Date: Friday, December 14, 2001 1:07 PM Subject: Hardest to Find Classic Computers (Was: RE: Way OT: Just say no to squirrels & Pascal question) >> When OT threads die and then get resurrected under even >> wilder topics, its just not worth it. > >Ok, we've had threads similar to this one before, but >maybe not quite... > >What are the hardest to find Classic Computers? What should not >be counted: > > Systems that never went beyond prototype > Systems that they made only one of > Systems that were custom-designed for a single > customer and were only in limited production > Systems that were not "general purpose" computers > >Also not intended as the thrust of the topic: > > Systems you most of all want > >Rather, the systems I'me talking about would have been >commercially produced, were general-purpose systems, >made in quantity of say at least a baker's dozen. > >These systems might be generally available, and might >go for a price you can afford, but you just can't *find* >them where you're at. > >Around here for me, it would be PDP-8's and Lisa's. > >??? > >-dq

24 years

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test-drb December 2001