test-drb October 2001

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

259 participants
770 discussions

by optimus＠canit.se

Our DECstation 3100 has been in a sad state recently. Both the monitor (that old monochrome thing without a stand which was used with the VS2000 amongst others) and the keyboard (LK201) had given up the gist (the monitor would just make a flickery sound, without the CRT coming alive, the keyboard didn't blink and the console would blink "??" when it reached test 3). I plugged in a Nokia monitor, which worked, if you can live with the green picture, and another LK201. That worked for a while, but when I managed to boot it (NFS wasn't so cooperative this day), and reached X, the mouse just stopped moving after a while. I rebooted it, and suddenly this keyboard had died as well. What the hell is going on? Is it possible to save the LK201s? We're running short of DEC keyboards as it is, and we certainly don't need this. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. If the designers of X-Windows built cars, there would be no fewer than five steering wheels hidden about the cockpit, none of which followed the same principles -- but you'd be able to shift gears with your car stereo. Useful feature, that. - Marus J. Ranum, Digital Equipment Corporation

23 years, 7 months

Central Florida Junk Fest report.

by steven_j_robertson＠hotmail.com

I was able to see them yesterday but, now they are gone. SteveRob >From: "Glen Goodwin" <acme_ent(a)bellsouth.net> >Reply-To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org >To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> >Subject: Re: Central Florida Junk Fest report. >Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 23:40:16 -0400 > >Hey Mike, I'm getting a 404 on all of these :>( > > > The pics didn't come out very well with alot of cc gear hiding in the >shade, > > but here they are: > > > > http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/Jf1.jpg > > http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/Jf2.jpg > > http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/Jf3.jpg > > > > > > > ;) > > > - Mike: dogas(a)bellsouth.net > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

23 years, 7 months

8080 vs. 8080A

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

Track the clock through the logic... there is a divide by 2 in there. Also the 9080 250ns part was late in the game and hard to find. If you want an 8080 that was really fast use a 8085-5 (5mhz) or the later 80c85-6(6mhz). the latter was a nice part as it was CMOS. I still have a potload of 8080s and 8085s and my design favorite for small systems is the 8085 over the Z80. Allison -----Original Message----- From: Richard Erlacher <edick(a)idcomm.com> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> Date: Sunday, September 30, 2001 8:23 PM Subject: Re: 8080 vs. 8080A >Well, Allison, it appears you're right. The AMD 9080 was the one with the 250ns >clock (4 MHz) period, now that I've looked a couple of references. Thanks for >clearing that up. > >However, that doesn't explain what's going on in my iSBC8020-4's. I'll have to >figure that one out. > >Dick >----- Original Message ----- >From: "ajp166" <ajp166(a)bellatlantic.net> >To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> >Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2001 5:12 PM >Subject: Re: 8080 vs. 8080A > > >> no, it was 2mhz. >> >> using 8224 the usual crystal was 18.435 (2.0483333*9). >> there was a -1. -2 and -3 version of the part but the fastest was 3mhz. >> >> I used to sell upD8080AF for NEC and I had to know my competition. >> >> Allison >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Richard Erlacher <edick(a)idcomm.com> >> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> >> Date: Sunday, September 30, 2001 6:23 PM >> Subject: Re: 8080 vs. 8080A >> >> >> >BTW, the 8080 was a 2.5 MHz part, wasn't it? I've got a couple Intel >> app-notes >> >where they generate a baud-rate clock from 24.576 MHz and generate the >> CPU clock >> >from that, at 2.4576 MHz for the CPU. That's on an i8080-2. >> > >> >Dick >> > >> >----- Original Message ----- >> >From: "ajp166" <ajp166(a)bellatlantic.net> >> >To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> >> >Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2001 2:31 PM >> >Subject: Re: 8080 vs. 8080A >> > >> > >> >> Wrong! >> >> >> >> The I8080A is AS fast as the i8080. the i8080A-1 is faster but not >> twice >> >> as the fastest 8080[A] was only 3mhz and hte standard part was 2mhz. >> >> >> >> Allison >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: John Galt <gmphillips(a)earthlink.net> >> >> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> >> >> Date: Sunday, September 30, 2001 3:57 PM >> >> Subject: Re: 8080 vs. 8080A >> >> >> >> >> >> >"The i8080A is essentially twice as fast as the >> >> > standard i8080 and COULD be used more easily with low-power logic >> since >> >> its >> >> >demands aren't as stringent". >> >> > >> >> >Ok, that's a good start. >> >> > >> >> >But, I don't think "low power" TTL (transistor transistor logic) had >> >> >anything to do with the complexity of the code being executed on the >> >> chip. >> >> >True? I had assumed >> >> >that the references to the 8080 only being compatible >> >> >with "low-power TTL" and the 8080A being compatible >> >> >with "standard TTL" had something to do with the support chips (Ram, >> >> clock, >> >> >etc) that could be used with the 8080 vs. the 8080A. >> >> > >> >> >Since I'm new to this mail list, let me explain why I would >> >> >show up here and ask such a question to begin with. >> >> > >> >> >I'm a chip collector. I am trying to document the differences >> between >> >> the >> >> >different early Intel microprocessors. Not worried about massive >> >> detail, >> >> >just the major differences (PMOS, vs. NMOS, vs. >> >> >HMOS, clock speed, transistor count, etc). >> >> > >> >> >The only microprocessor that I don't have a good handle >> >> >on is the 8080 and the difference between the 8080 and 8080A. >> >> > >> >> >I also know that the 8080 was introduced sometime >> >> >around April 1974. I have not been able to find an >> >> >introduction date for the 8080A. Was it introduced at >> >> >the same time? Does anyone know? >> >> > >> >> >I also need an Intel C8080 or C8080-8 for my >> >> >collection. If you have one, I want it. I have been looking >> >> >for one for months and have not been able to find one. >> >> >If you have either of these chips in good condition >> >> >(no desoldered parts wanted), I'm offering 400.00 >> >> >for the C8080-8 and 500.00 for a C8080. >> >> > >> >> >If you need a replacement for the C8080 or C8080-8 you sell me, I'll >> >> GIVE >> >> >you a D8080A free as part of the >> >> >deal. >> >> > >> >> >----- Original Message ----- >> >> >From: "Richard Erlacher" <edick(a)idcomm.com> >> >> >To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> >> >> >Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2001 1:21 PM >> >> >Subject: Re: 8080 vs. 8080A >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> This makes no sense at all, though it may be because I'm >> >> misinterpreting >> >> >the way >> >> >> in which you've put it. >> >> >> >> >> >> I have Intel boards that come in versions with the i8080 and also, >> >> >> optionally,with the i8080A, and, aside from the clock frequency and >> >> memory >> >> >> access times, they're identical. The i8080A is essentially twice >> as >> >> fast >> >> >as the >> >> >> standard i8080 and COULD be used more easily with low-power logic >> >> since >> >> >its >> >> >> demands aren't as stringent. >> >> >> >> >> >> The i8080A will, AFAIK, replace the i8080 in all applications >> without >> >> ill >> >> >> effects. >> >> >> >> >> >> BTW, please turn off "rich-text" mode in your email editor when you >> >> >compose >> >> >> messages for this group, as some folks' mail readers can't >> interpret >> >> the >> >> >> rich-text/HTML format. >> >> >> >> >> >> Dick >> >> >> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> >> From: John Galt >> >> >> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org >> >> >> Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2001 10:17 AM >> >> >> Subject: 8080 vs. 8080A >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Can anyone here describe the technical differences between >> >> >> an Intel 8080 and Intel 8080A CPU? >> >> >> >> >> >> The ONLY ref. I have been able to find seems to indicate that there >> >> was a >> >> >bug in >> >> >> the 8080 and as a result it would only work with low power TTL? >> >> >> >> >> >> The problem was fixed in the 8080A and it would work with standard >> >> TTL? >> >> >> >> >> >> Does this make sense to anyone? >> >> >> >> >> >> Could anyone put this into laymans terms for me? >> >> >> >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> >> >> >> >> George Phillips - gmphillips(a)earthlink.net >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> > >

23 years, 7 months

HP 9000/847S

by jarkko.teppo＠er-grp.com

Hello, I just picked up a 9K 847S, upgraded to H50 with two SCSI-buses, one mux panel, a few disks and 384MB of memory (hmmmmm...). I'm not sure on the ten year rule as I'm relatively clueless regarding this machine. This is my second PA-RISC machine and it seems refreshingly better than the 840. A few questions: a) Introduction date ? b) Where can I get HP-UX 10.x cheaply :)? (ie. for free) -- jht

23 years, 7 months

IBM ROM BASIC or lack thereof

by alan.pearson＠cramer.com

QBASIC's sitting on my machine here at work (NT4), so I guess it's part of the default NT installation. There's no reason for us to use QBASIC here, it's too useful - we're mostly doing PL/SQL or MFC ;-) -al

23 years, 7 months

Central Florida Junk Fest report.

by acme_ent＠bellsouth.net

Hey Mike, I'm getting a 404 on all of these :>( > The pics didn't come out very well with alot of cc gear hiding in the shade, > but here they are: > > http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/Jf1.jpg > http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/Jf2.jpg > http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/Jf3.jpg > > > > ;) > > - Mike: dogas(a)bellsouth.net

23 years, 7 months

FDDI Cards

by vance＠ikickass.org

Anyone know where I might be able to find DEC DEFPA's, DEC DEFTA's, IBM FDDI/MC's and thing of the like? Peace... Sridhar

23 years, 7 months

IBM ROM BASIC or lack thereof

by cmurillo＠emtelsa.multi.net.co

I believe that qbasic was included in some older nt and win9x installations only as support for "edit"; i.e., you typed "edit autoexec.bat" and the qbasic editor would be the actual invoked program. carlos. At 05:52 PM 10/2/01 -0500, you wrote: >Yay on NT4 Server, nay on NT2K Server. > >George > >On 2 Oct 2001 11:6:7 +0100, Iggy Drougge wrote: > >>Glen Goodwin skrev: >> >>>> Isn't QBASIC delivered even to this day with Windows systems? That's a >>>much >>>> nicer basic, and it features online help, which is great for kids. >> >>>No BASIC of any kind from Win95 on up. >> >>Since my only Windows machine is de-electrified right now, I can't test that, >>but I am certain that I've run QBASIC on it. Would anyone sitting at one try >>that from a prompt? >> >>-- >>En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. >> >>"Real life is full of idiots, and tons of ads. I don't see how IRC is any >>different, other than a lot more people want to have sex with you." >> -- m3000 >> > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo(a)nospammers.ieee.org

23 years, 7 months

Boot Disk Needed

by acme_ent＠bellsouth.net

> Drop to DOS on any machine with a 5.25" drive you have access to. Type: > > format /u /s a: Okay Sellam, I'll bite -- what's the /u parameter? Glen 0/0

23 years, 7 months

IBM ROM BASIC or lack thereof

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

From: Chris <mythtech(a)Mac.com> >I just did a search in win95 for basic (this is a fresh install of win95, >so no other software has been added)... and there are NO matches. Going >to a command line and typing Qbasic give a "bad command or file name" as >I would expect since find found nothing. the standard install does not copy it to the disk. Check the CDrom as it's there in a seperate directory. >WinME has the same results. I can't test 98 or NT 4 or 5 from home, so I >can't say what is on them, but I would guess the same thing (nothing). It's also on my NT4/server, Nt4/workstation, 98 and 98se none of which install it automagically. it can be installed on W2000 from what I've been told but again it's a manual install. Allison

23 years, 7 months

IBM ROM BASIC or lack thereof

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

I also have W95osr2 cdroms with Qbasic on them as old software. My dos 5.0 kit has Qbasic and the 6.22full kit has it as well. the 6.22 upgrade does nto as it already part of the system (upgrade from dos5.0). Allison -----Original Message----- From: Sipke de Wal <sipke(a)wxs.nl> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> Date: Tuesday, October 02, 2001 7:55 PM Subject: Re: IBM ROM BASIC or lack thereof >My CD-ROM is a special release for educational institutions and >may have the PLUS CD incorporated ! > >Sipke de Wal >--------------------------------------------- >http://xgistor.ath.cx >--------------------------------------------- > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Russ Blakeman <rhblakeman(a)kih.net> >To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> >Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2001 12:04 AM >Subject: RE: IBM ROM BASIC or lack thereof > > >> Not on my 95, 98 second edition or ME machines, even searched using >> FIND...nope but it is on my Windows 3.11 machine, as it came with DOS >> 6.22... >> >> -> -----Original Message----- >> -> From: owner-classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org >> -> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Iggy Drougge >> -> Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2001 12:00 AM >> -> To: Glen Goodwin >> -> Subject: Re: IBM ROM BASIC or lack thereof >> -> >> -> >> -> Glen Goodwin skrev: >> -> >> -> >> Isn't QBASIC delivered even to this day with Windows systems? That's a >> -> >much >> -> >> nicer basic, and it features online help, which is great for kids. >> -> >> -> >No BASIC of any kind from Win95 on up. >> -> >> -> Since my only Windows machine is de-electrified right now, I >> -> can't test that, >> -> but I am certain that I've run QBASIC on it. Would anyone >> -> sitting at one try >> -> that from a prompt? >> -> >> -> -- >> -> En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. >> -> >> -> "Real life is full of idiots, and tons of ads. I don't see how IRC is any >> -> different, other than a lot more people want to have sex with you." >> -> -- m3000 >> -> >> -> >> > >

23 years, 7 months

IBM ROM BASIC or lack thereof

by acme_ent＠bellsouth.net

> Isn't QBASIC delivered even to this day with Windows systems? That's a much > nicer basic, and it features online help, which is great for kids. No BASIC of any kind from Win95 on up. Glen 0/0

23 years, 7 months

IBM ROM BASIC or lack thereof

by mythtech＠Mac.com

>>No BASIC of any kind from Win95 on up. > >Since my only Windows machine is de-electrified right now, I can't test that, >but I am certain that I've run QBASIC on it. Would anyone sitting at one try >that from a prompt? I just did a search in win95 for basic (this is a fresh install of win95, so no other software has been added)... and there are NO matches. Going to a command line and typing Qbasic give a "bad command or file name" as I would expect since find found nothing. WinME has the same results. I can't test 98 or NT 4 or 5 from home, so I can't say what is on them, but I would guess the same thing (nothing). -chris <http://www.mythtech.net>

23 years, 7 months

IBM ROM BASIC or lack thereof

by acme_ent＠bellsouth.net

I wrote: > > This was the point to my original question: why would clone makers go to > > the trouble of displaying the message and then halting the system, instead > > of just *halting the system*? (Unless they were using stolen code.) Just > > doesn't quite make sense . . . Hans replied: > To tell the user what had happened? > The code pointed to by Int 18H is responsible for printing that message > and could be invoked from elsewhere than th BIOS boot sequence so it > seems just user friendly to display some message if you are going to > hang the system. "No ROM BASIC" does not tell the user what happened. "No bootable device found" would be more helpful. > Of course today you would get a BSOD - much more informative ;-) Yes, thank God for Bill Gates ;>) Glen 0/0

23 years, 7 months

Tandy 1800HD

by millerbj＠umich.edu

So I dropped by the computer shop today and they had a Tandy 1800HD laptop for $10. I grabbed it. It's in excellent condition. Unfortunately, someone stole the power-supply... Any idea where I can get one? Also, were might I find a scanned manual for this thing? Blair

23 years, 7 months

Boot Disk Needed

by mythtech＠Mac.com

>/U (do a REAL format) is faster for you than >/Q (DON'T do a real format, just write an empty directory) ?? > >Would you care to post some measured times for how much faster it is? Speed will be HIGHLY dependant on what size disk it is. A 360k disk formats with /u fairly fast, and although it is STILL quicker to do /q, it isn't a huge difference... however, when doing a 1.4 disk, it cam be the difference between over a minute and under 10 seconds. /q is basically the same as doing "del *.*", it doesn't reformat the disk at all, it just rewrites the FAT so the disk thinks it is blank, the fastest way to clear a disk is "format a: /q /u"... UNLESS there are only a few items on it, then del *.* might edge it out Also, with all this /u business... be careful when doing that on 5.25" disks in a high density drive. If you put a DD disk in, and do format /u, it will NOT warn you that it is going to attempt to format a DD disk as HD. In MS DOS, when you format on a HD 5.25 drive, it automatically tries to format HD... you need to specify the format size (or use /4) to format 360k... leaving off the /u will warn you that the format is different then what you are about to try. Unfortuantly, leaving off the /u ALSO fails to remap bad sectors, AND saves the unformat info adding a few more seconds onto the disk format. None of this warning business applies to 3.5" drives, they will detect the HD vs DD disk, and format correctly... so with those it is safe to always use /u if you want to. -chris <http://www.mythtech.net>

23 years, 7 months

Semi OT: Radio Shack Armatron & May '85 issue of Radio-Electronics

by rmeenaks＠olf.com

Hi, I am planning on converting the Radio Shack Armatron to run off the parallel port of a PeeCee but need the plans to do it. I found the following site that contains the conversion needed for an Atari at: http://www.bitsofthepast.com/atari/arm.html The May '85 Radio-Electronics has the necessary instructions, sooo I was wondering if someone would be kind enought to either scan or mail me the article. Thanks, Ram -- ,,,, /'^'\ ( o o ) -oOOO--(_)--OOOo------------------------------------- | Ram Meenakshisundaram | | Senior Software Engineer | | OpenLink Financial Inc | | .oooO Phone: (516) 227-6600 x267 | | ( ) Oooo. Email: rmeenaks(a)olf.com | ---\ (----( )-------------------------------------- \_) ) / (_/

23 years, 7 months

ASCII Terminal Giveaway - Ottawa Canada

by jimmiejimjim＠hotmail.com

I've got a used ASCII Terminal, with detached keyboard for whoever is the first to contact me to take it away. (wife + messy basement = get rid of unused "junk"). I'm in the west end of Ottawa, Ontario, Canada. If interested, contact me directly via email: jimmiejimjim(a)hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

23 years, 7 months

Odd VT100 question

by healyzh＠aracnet.com

OK, I'm thinking of doing a wierd mod on a VT100, just how much room is inside one of them? I need room for a 7 1/2" x 9" x 2 1/2" board (the 2 1/2" is thanks to the heatsink and RAM), and would also like to be able to fit in a smallish 250W PS (3 1/2" x 5 1/2" x 6"), and a 3 1/2" HD. I've got 2 or 3 VT100's, but they're so buried it's going to take a lot of work to get to them so was hoping to get an idea if there is room first. Basically I'm trying to build a PDP-10 into a VT100 by using an Intel D810EMO MicroATX board. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh(a)aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |

23 years, 7 months

CT Junk Fest? (was RE: Central FL Computer Junk Fest)

by DAW＠yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu

! From: Joe [mailto:rigdonj@intellistar.net] ! ! At 10:33 AM 9/28/01 -0400, you wrote: ! >Hmmm, is there going to be one up here around Connecticut sometime? ! ! Sure, if you'll organize it. ! ! Joe ! Okay then, what's involved with one of these festivals? Can someone who organized one of the other fests e-mail me with the info? --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818

23 years, 7 months

Central Florida Junk Fest report.

by mythtech＠Mac.com

>LOGO YEAH... that was the language (logo, topal... hey this goes back to the 4th grade, I am lucky I remembered playing with it at all) :-) -chris <http://www.mythtech.net>

23 years, 7 months

Power connectors

by tniemann＠msn.com

Hans.... I may be wrong in my explanation to the following question you posed but I will give it a shot.....You said: I don't know any reason why the system has to be keyed, I always assumed the US development of keyed plugs was triggered by old DC systems (since in DC Eq. it is necersarry to know the orientation), but not a new addition. Strange, we dropped all orientationwhen switching to AC (with Protective Ground). Could anyone give give a reason why the system has to be keyed _IF_ a Protective Ground is included (other than define the Protective Ground pin) If you hook an scope up circuit such as a TV and hook the ground probe up to signal ground but you have the plug reversed the circuit will short out and you will blow the device you are testing. That is because you just provided a current path to frame ground for the signal which you thought was signal ground. TV repairman who have used scopes have done this more than once. Tony Niemann 2606 Merriwood Avenue Louisville Kentucky 40299 tniemann(a)msn.com 502-267-9233

23 years, 7 months

Boot Disk Needed

by Lee.Davison＠merlincommunications.com

> /u = Unconditional, it will do a real format, as opposed to > quick format > /U - unconditional, prevents checking of sectors for read errors before formatting them. This is the only way to format unformatted or non MSDOS disks or to overwrite any blocks on MSDOS disks that are marked as bad. Lee. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- This email is intended only for the above named addressee(s). The information contained in this email may contain information which is confidential. The views expressed in this email are personal to the sender and do not in any way reflect the views of the company. If you have received this email and you are not a named addressee please delete it from your system and contact Merlin Communications International IT Department on +44 20 7344 5888. _____________________________________________________________________ This message has been checked for all known viruses by Star Internet delivered through the MessageLabs Virus Scanning Service. For further information visit http://www.star.net.uk/stats.asp or alternatively call Star Internet for details on the Virus Scanning Service.

23 years, 7 months

DECserver 700

by Antonio.Carlini＠riverstonenet.com

Just in case: The default password at the "#" prompt is access The default privileged password is system Otherwise, I'll see if I have the manual around somewhere to dig out the set-to-factory-defaults sequence. Antonio > -----Original Message----- > From: Absurdly Obtuse [mailto:vance@ikickass.org] > Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2001 6:34 AM > To: Classic Computers Mailing List > Subject: DECserver 700 > > > > Hey there. I was wondering if someone could help me break into the > privileged mode on my DECserver 700 without the password. Do > I have to > remove the RAM, the battery, or something? Thanks. > > Peace... Sridhar > > >

23 years, 7 months

DECserver 700

by vance＠ikickass.org

Hey there. I was wondering if someone could help me break into the privileged mode on my DECserver 700 without the password. Do I have to remove the RAM, the battery, or something? Thanks. Peace... Sridhar

23 years, 7 months

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test-drb October 2001