test-drb October 2001

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

259 participants
770 discussions

by jdonogh1＠prodigy.net

Anybody know what a 74F582 is? 24-pin DIP, it's on a processor board along with several 74LS181's and various others. Thanks.

23 years, 6 months

Dark Tower - any internals info out there?

by mythtech＠Mac.com

>> I think I still have mine, and in working condition. Although I would not >> be willing to part with it (thus why I think I still have it), I CAN open >> it and send some digital pics of the chips. Maybe even draw out some >> schematics. > >That would be helpful. Ok, I will stop by my parents house tonight and pick mine up. Then tomorrow when I am supposed to be working (who wants to work when you can goof off), I will take it apart and take some pics. I will do what I can for schematics (I'm not an EE, just a hobbiest, so they might not be pretty, but I will try to make them correct). Although I am sure they will laugh hysterically, have you thought of contacting the game manufacturer? (Don't recall who it was, but I will know tonight when I pick mine up) -chris <http://www.mythtech.net>

23 years, 6 months

CP/M-8000

by cpg＠aladdin.de

Hi, I've got a Olivetti M20 Z8001 PC, and it appears that once there was a CP/M-8000 version available for it. Has anyone got such thing? I'd be interested in this, I could swap with some PCOS programs. (Assuming the copyright holder (Olivetti) doesn't mind.) regards, chris

23 years, 6 months

IIgs using hard disk 20

by mythtech＠Mac.com

>Are you SURE? I have an HD20 which works just fine on a Plus, but which I >have NEVER been able to make work on a 128k. My 512k has video problems >and I haven't had a chance to sort those out so I can test the HD20 on it. Not to double reply... but now I am going to start beating my head into a wall. Apple's technote article # 8169 (in the archives section), claims that the only way to add a hard drive to the 128 and 512 is by using the HD20 non-scsi drive (the one in question here). This seems to contridict a previous technote that lists the first supporting mac as the 512ke. So now I am REALLY going to have to pull out my 128 and see what happens... it seems Apple doesn't even know which way it goes. -chris <http://www.mythtech.net>

23 years, 6 months

IIgs using hard disk 20

by mythtech＠Mac.com

>Won't work, simply because the floppy port on the GS doesn't have the >firmware to support the HD20, while >the early Macs did. But there are many better hard drive options for a >GS, anyway. I guess I will have to keep an eye out for a SCSI board for the IIgs. Maybe I can also track down an original Apple HD SC... just to keep everything matching. So much for using parts on hand <sigh> -chris <http://www.mythtech.net>

23 years, 6 months

Collections vs. accumulations, was Re: How many collectors?

by technos＠nerdland.org

> Well, I still go for a variation of Murphey's law, which I found > to fit at least my experiance: > > As soon as you aquired someting you belive to be truly rate and > unique, A second incarnation will popup close thereafter. > > And as a bylaw it's stated: > > The price asked for the second item is as lower as more you did > spend on the first. > I always refer to it as the Law of Affinity; I saw it printed in a WWII collectors catalogue in the 80's and it stuck Objects have an affinity for each other equivalent to (5/number you have seen)^(price) The corrolary runs; After the first object, all subsequent objects have a maximum price of (price you last paid/(number you own +1))

23 years, 6 months

Unknown IC

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

From: Iggy Drougge <optimus(a)canit.se> >> Ahh, the 74LS181s are ALUs, as is the 'F582. Interesting that they >>used both. I'm curious...what kind of processor is this? > >Am I the only one who finds it a bit perverse that there are 74xxx standard >TTL circuits for such complex functions as ALUs? I thought that the way to go >would be to construct it out of simpler TTL circuits, such as all the 740x >gates, not buying it as a package. I suppose I'm not used to the concept of >single 74xxx circuits carrying out such complex tasks. It was the second generation before really complex LSI actually the '181 was likely the highest gate count part in the class before the TI bit slices (74881-884). It's also very old but still a handy part as it does all the standard arithmetic ops and logical ones too. The ALU core of the 2901 is basically the 74181. Allison

23 years, 6 months

looking for documentation for 1963 minuteman missile computer

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

Why not. they were demil'ed and made available to colleges and any one else that could deal with the 30someodd inches diameter by 20 inches tall "slice". It wanted three voltages and one whole whopping amount of power. PITA to cool as well. I'ts been 30 years since i've seen/played with one. Allison -----Original Message----- From: Gene Buckle <geneb(a)deltasoft.com> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> Date: Monday, October 15, 2001 2:26 PM Subject: Re: looking for documentation for 1963 minuteman missile computer >> I'm looking for documentation for a 1963 minuteman missile navigation >> computer. Any leads would be appreciated. >> >*spits coffee on monitor* > >You're kidding, right? > >g. > > >

23 years, 6 months

Unknown IC

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

It also appears in the LQ02 printer logic and the RX01 disk ucontroller. It was a popular TTL 4bit ALU slice. Allison -----Original Message----- From: Dave McGuire <mcguire(a)neurotica.com> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> Date: Monday, October 15, 2001 6:16 PM Subject: Re: Unknown IC >On October 15, Tony Duell wrote: >> > > Ahh, the 74LS181s are ALUs, as is the 'F582. Interesting that they >> > >used both. I'm curious...what kind of processor is this? >> > >> > Am I the only one who finds it a bit perverse that there are 74xxx standa= >> > rd >> > TTL circuits for such complex functions as ALUs? I thought that the way t= >> >> Actually, what suprises me is how _simple_ the 74181 gate schematic is >> (it's published in most TTL databooks). It doesn't take that long to >> understand how it works. >> >> In terms of the transistor count, I suspect there are TTL chips which are >> more complex than the '181. > > The '181 is even used in the pdp11/04 and /34 if memory serves. >Anyone know of any others? > > -Dave > >-- >Dave McGuire >Laurel, MD

23 years, 6 months

Data storage and transmission (was Re: ArcNet)

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On October 15, Jan Koller wrote: > > > How about MicroWave transmission ? > > > Or data encoded onto laser beams? > > > Or satellite bounced? > > Actually these three are probably something Dave McGuire > could actually do. While the rest of us have watches and > clocks, I heard through the grapevine he has his own fully > functional Atomic Clock. Uhh, yeah, I've done all three, but only the first two by myself. ;) -Dave -- Dave McGuire Laurel, MD

23 years, 6 months

ArcNet and the Pursuit of Multiple Topologies

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Oct 15, 13:20, Derek Peschel wrote: > On Mon, Oct 15, 2001 at 11:18:10AM -0700, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > 10BaseT can use CAT-3 or better. 16mbps Token Ring needs [...] > > Now I'm thinking that the "T" in "10BaseT", "100BaseT4", etc. and the T in > the line capacities "T-1", "T-2", etc. are the same thing. Is that true? Maybe. The 'T' in "10baseT" etc is the same 'T' as in "UTP" -- unshielded twisted pairs. I don't know what the 'T' in "T1" stands for. It might be the same as one in "AT&T" since they coined the term, or it might mean "twisted pair" because that's how T1 lines were originally made. T1, BTW, is 1.544Mb/s, and T3 is 44.736Mb/s; AFAIK there's no such thing as T2. A bit like ISDN; there's ISDN2, ISDN6, ISDN30, but no others. > And is there a "10BroadT"? :) Nope. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

23 years, 6 months

ArcNet and the Pursuit of Multiple Topologies

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Oct 15, 11:18, Ethan Dicks wrote: > --- "Eric J. Korpela" <korpela(a)ssl.berkeley.edu> wrote: > > Just wired the house with Cat-5 this week. 10bT has the advantage that > > it's also 100bT with a change of equipment. > > I know you probably know what you meant, but to me, that statement is > misleading, or rather, to someone who knows little about networking, > taking the second sentence out of context could lead trouble. > > phone wire - 2 pair or more, good for analog telephones > CAT-3 - will pass 10mbps traffic (or analog telephone traffic) > CAT-4 - good for token ring > CAT-5 - good for most inexpensive networking technologies > CAT-5e - needed for transmission technologies that put > 100mbps on > a single pair. > > 10BaseT can use CAT-3 or better. 16mbps Token Ring needs CAT-5 or > better. 100Base-TX needs CAT-5 (including CAT-5 jacks!) Don't recall > what 100Base-T4 needs Cat3 > Lotsa little fiddly details about the physical layer are covered up by > robust layer 2 and layer 3 protocols. Without expensive sniffer hardware > (Time Domain Reflectometer, anyone?), a lot of this stuff gets swept under > the rug until you are having fits when it doesn't work. I couldn't agree more. Don't try to build a whole network (or long runs) with stranded patch cord, for example. > > (ISTR that you can use the > > unused pair in the cable for LocalTalk, but I haven't yet tried it). > > Should be able to. Just not at the same time as you're running 100baseTX up the same cable :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

23 years, 6 months

Unknown IC

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On October 14, Jim Donoghue wrote: > Anybody know what a 74F582 is? 24-pin DIP, it's on a processor board along > with several 74LS181's and various others. Thanks. Ahh, the 74LS181s are ALUs, as is the 'F582. Interesting that they used both. I'm curious...what kind of processor is this? -Dave -- Dave McGuire Laurel, MD

23 years, 6 months

HP-UX items

by pjschilling＠gcstech.net

I would be interested. Phil -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Paul R. Santa-Maria Sent: Monday, October 15, 2001 12:58 PM To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org Subject: HP-UX items I have acquired some HP-UX 9000 series 700/800 items that I have no clue about and no use for. 1. Two identical manuals: "Installing HP-UX 10.10 and Updating from HP-UX 10.0x to 10.10." 2. Manual: "Support Media User's Manual PA-RISC Computer Systems." 3. CD-ROMs: "HP Instant Information CD HP-UX Release 10." June 1998 and April 1998. 4. CD-ROM: "HP-UX Diagnostic/Independent Product Release Media." June 1998 5. CD-ROMs: "10.20 Hardware Extensions 2.0 HP-UX 10.20 Servers" April 1998 "HP-UX Extensions Software" April 1998 6. CD-ROM: "HP-UX Recovery Release 10.20" 7. Four CD-ROMs: HP-UX Applications Release 10.20" Disks 1 through 4. June 1998. Can anyone use these? Paul R. Santa-Maria Monroe, Michigan USA

23 years, 6 months

ArcNet and the Pursuit of Multiple Topologies

by jruschme＠Mac.com

Sounds a lot like a box I've been threatening to build for a while. On the Ethernet side, I'd not worry about specific 10bT and ThickNet segments. Instead, I'd run a single 10b2 (ThinNet) segment and get a 10bT hub with a BNC uplink. This also had the advantage of saving you a slot in the box. Don't worry about ThickNet, just pick up a couple of spare 10bT or 10b2 tranceivers for the odd box with an AUI port. Since you've got LocalTalk running to the box, then I'd also run MacGate which would let you run MacIP (IP over LocalTalk). As for other fun topologies, you already mentioned TokenRing. My personal choice would be to also add HomePNA (Ethernet over phonelines). The 1MB HomePNA 1.0 cards (the only ones supported by Linux)are very cheap these days. I picked up a pair from Computer Geeks (http://www.compgeeks.com) for something like $12. Now if I could just find a cheap Ethernet/HomePNA bridge for the Nubus Mac in the spare bedroom... <<<John>>> -----Original Message----- Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 12:50:01 -0500 From: Tarsi <tarsi(a)binhost.com> Subject: ArcNet and the Pursuit of Multiple Topologies Dear all, I've decided that one of my goals is to run every networking topology possible in my house, regardless if I actually NEED to run them or not. :) My plan is to place 1 linux box running a card from each topology in it and use that to bridge all (or almost all) topologies. I currently have running 10bT ethernet, 10b2 ethernet, Localtalk over PhoneNET and the beginnings of Arcnet. In light of such, I have a series of questions: 1) Who knows some stuff about ArcNet? I've gotten 4 cards (8-bit ISA) and a 16-port active hub. I've read somewhere that cards are either hubbable or not. Any other info on that? 2) Anyone have any (I think it is) 93ohm coax arcnet patch cables that they want to get rid of? 3) Anyone got good resources on ThickNET? (10b5 I think it is?) I know it was run back in the day, and I know some precursory things about it (the funky vampire taps, etc.) Anyone have either resources or hardware on this topology that they'd like to share/sell/etc? :) 4) Any other interesting topologies I should try? I have plans to do: Arcnet, FDDI, Token ring, Localtalk, 10b2, 10b5, 10bT, 10bTX, 10bFiber, and (eventually) 802.11b wireless.

23 years, 6 months

OT: Dark Tower

by mythtech＠Mac.com

> What exactly IS Dark Tower? I've heard of Dork Tower (a comic book) but >not Dark Tower. If you prefer to answer off list, that would be fine too >8-) Well, if the original poster was refering to what I had, then Dark Tower is a board game (circa late 70's early 80's). The board was this roundish board that you moved all over, and there was a dark brown plastic castle thing that sat in the middle. The object was, you were an adventurer, and you had to move about getting things (treasures?) from each land (4 lands, 4 players IIRC). When it was your turn, you would press a button on the tower (I think there was "pass" for do nothing, "move" to go somewhere). It would then spin (well, the inside would spin, the tower stayed still), and eventually stop, telling you if you ran into enemy's, or treasures, or whatever. If it was an enemy, you had to fight them, and it would track your possestions and army strength, and would tell you how you did (how many people died, how many of the enemy joined your ranks, if you got new possestions) Basically, it was a 4 player, board game version along the lines of D&D (and was out when D&D was in its hayday, something else I am afraid to admit I was in to.). I would be happy to pull mine out (I am sure it is in my parents basement still, I have to go over there today anyway to fix my mother's computer), and I can take some pics of it, and scan the directions if people want. Of course, maybe the original poster was refering to some other Dark Tower game, and I now look like a total ass (but the one I know of was really cool, so even if I just get to tell others about it, it was worth the typing). -chris <http://www.mythtech.net>

23 years, 6 months

Sigma Designs OneReel Tape

by DAW＠yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu

! Forgot to mention... ! ! There were SCSI-interfaced Ethernet adapters for ! SCSI-equipped Macs... got one of those, too... I would like to get my hands on one, maybe 2 or 3 of these. Anyone got spares? --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818

23 years, 6 months

Semi-OT : 4063 pinout

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On October 14, Tony Duell wrote: > This is semi-off-topic (but only 'semi' as I repairing a computer > peripheral that's over 10 years old...) > > I have come across a chip that I don't have the pinout of. It's a 4063, > presumably 4000-series CMOS. The one in the device is made by RCA. > > >From the function in the circuit, I would guess it's some kind of 4 bit > comparator. > > Does anybody have the pinouts (16 pin DIL). It's not in any of my CMOS > databooks that I can find. If you do, could you please type them as a > simple text file (as in It is indeed a 4-bit comparator. Here is the pinout: 1 B3 2 IA<B 3 IA=B 4 IA>B 5 OA>B 6 OA=B 7 OA<B 8 gnd 9 B0 10 A0 11 B1 12 A1 13 A2 14 B2 15 A3 16 Vcc Good luck, -Dave -- Dave McGuire Laurel, MD

23 years, 6 months

Unknown IC

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On October 15, Iggy Drougge wrote: > Am I the only one who finds it a bit perverse that there are 74xxx standard > TTL circuits for such complex functions as ALUs? I thought that the way to go > would be to construct it out of simpler TTL circuits, such as all the 740x > gates, not buying it as a package. I suppose I'm not used to the concept of > single 74xxx circuits carrying out such complex tasks. An ALU isn't that complex, really. Find a TTL databook and look at the logic diagram of a '181. There's not that much to it. More complex and less "generic" than a 7400 quad NAND gate, sure... -Dave -- Dave McGuire Laurel, MD

23 years, 6 months

Semi-OT : 4063 pinout

by r_beaudry＠hotmail.com

Tony, According to a datasheet downloaded from www.freetradezone.com (free registration, and supposedly 12 million component datasheets -- I believe it, as there's yet to be a part I haven't found).... It's a CMOS 4-bit magnitude comparator... 1: B3 2: (A < B) IN 3: (A = B) IN 4: (A > B) IN 5: (A > B) OUT 6: (A = B) OUT 7: (A < B) OUT 8: VSS 9: B0 10: A0 11: B1 12: A1 13: A2 14: B2 15: A3 16: VDD I can email the datasheet if you'd like.... It's a 220KB .PDF file... Rich B. "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Ben Franklin

23 years, 6 months

ArcNet and the Pursuit of Multiple Topologies

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> Jan Koller <vze2mnvr(a)verizon.net>: > > > Ahhhh, What are Chinese whispers? > > It's a game where you set up a chain of people, and > whisper some message in the ear of the first one, who > whispers it to the next one, etc. When it gets to the > far end you compare it with the original message, > usually with amusing results due to accumulation of > errors along the way. In Cub Scouts, we called this "The Telephone Game". -dq

23 years, 6 months

CompuPro and 86-DOS

by mranalog＠home.com

This last weekend I pulled my old rack mount CompuPro system out of storage and cleaned it up. The last time I used this system was about 15 years ago and I only used it to edit my resume in Wordstar. The system consists of: a "CPU 8085/88" a "DISK 1" controller a "SYSTEM SUPPORT 1" for the console two "RAM 16" boards for a total of 128K and two Qume 842 8" floppy drives After one small capacitor fire I had the system up and running. I went through all of the 8" diskettes I could find to determine what would boot. So far, I have bootable disks for CP/M 2.2, CP/M 86, and CP/M 8-16. But the disks that I really want to read are in 86-DOS format according to the label. I have disks that claim to be 86-DOS boot disks but they wouldn't boot. Some of these disks I'm having problems with appear to be SSSD 26 sectors/ 128 bytes if that helps. Can anyone point me in the direction I need to go in order to be able to boot 86-DOS? Regards, --Doug ========================================= Doug Coward @ home in Poulsbo, WA Analog Computer Online Museum and History Center http://www.best.com/~dcoward/analog =========================================

23 years, 6 months

RetroX computer shop in London...

by Antonio.Carlini＠riverstonenet.com

>> It's mostly lower end 8-bit software, but it might be worth a peek...they're > >Sure, it's not 100% my main interest, but they might have something that >I need. Anyway, it can't hurt to look :-) Is this the shop that has the owner's Altair in some basement or other? Or am I misremembering some other snippet? Antonio

23 years, 6 months

problems generating OS8 system tape.

by jos.mar＠bluewin.ch

After finally getting my TU56/TD8E setup operational, I now run into problems generating an OS/8 system tape. The system keeps insisting that "TAPE #2 is not an original dec tape", although i know for a fact that it is. I have 3 sets of system tapes and all generate the same error. Tape #1 is never asked for, the resulting tape is of course not usable. Any clues what I'm doing wrong ? Jos Dreesen

23 years, 6 months

Data storage and transmission (was Re: ArcNet)

by mythtech＠Mac.com

>Data encoded in the hand gestures of a person depicted in a video tape made >available to the world. This has been done. US military hostages and POWs have done this in the past when being forced to give statements on behalf of their captors. And I am sure US solders are not the only ones trained to do something like this. -chris <http://www.mythtech.net>

23 years, 6 months

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test-drb October 2001