test-drb January 2001

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

181 participants
415 discussions

by kevan＠heydon.org

The guy in the mail below has a Sharp MZ-80K he wants to get rid of. Please reply to him directly, I don't think he is going to be willing to post so I think you will have to collect from Bristol. -- Kevan Collector of old computers: http://www.heydon.org/kevan/collection/ ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 14:05:25 -0000 From: Nick Reynolds <nick.reynolds(a)icc.win-uk.net> Subject: Do you want (or know anyone who wants) a Sharp MZ-80K? Some years ago I took a Sharp MZ-80K computer (+ manuals + printer + software) off someone who would have otherwise have thrown it in a skip. I believe it works OK, although I've never actually powered it up myself. I don't really want it, but rather than throw it in a skip, I am trying to find a good home to give it to. Do you want it (I note you already have one) or do you know anyone who does? I live in Bristol (UK) and could deliver it to somewhere round here if the eventual recipient had a friend or relative near here who could ensure its eventual delivery. Nick Reynolds

25 years, 4 months

OT: Lightning vs Lightning Bug (Was: RE: Digital Ethernet Local N etwork Interconnect (DELNI)

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On January 9, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > I recently came into possession of about half a dozen of the Digital > > Ethernet Local Network Interconnect (DELNI). This is about 4 more than I > > need. I am willing to trade them singularly for something anyone has that > > can peek my interest. I am particularly interested in items that is > ^^^^ > > associated DEC, HP and IBM workstation > > The sought-after word there was "pique". > > ;-) Last time I "piqued", I got slapped. -Dave McGuire

25 years, 4 months

Tektronix 4170 ????

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

Is anyone on the list familar with this one? I found one yesterday. It's the size of a large tower case and has two 5 1/4" floppy drives mounted vertically in the top. There are also two "Write Protect" switches on the top of the front panel indicating that it may have internal hard drives. The thing that caught my attention was that it had two disks in the drives and one of them is marked CPM-86. I found a brief description in the 1985 Tektronix catalog. They call it a "Local Graphics Processing Unit" and is used with the 4105, 4106, 4107 and 4109 terminals. From the decription, I *think* it makes them into stand alone CAD systems. Does anyone have any docs for this thing? Joe

25 years, 4 months

cray el (uk) needs rescue

by stuart＠zen.co.uk

Hi all, I've been offered a Cray EL in the UK, that frankly, is too big for me to handle. A good home is needed to offer removal and relocation, or else it will be scrapped. The machine is non-operational. Interetested parties should e-mail me. cheers, stu

25 years, 4 months

OT - ActiveX Controls

by rcini＠optonline.net

Hello, all: I figure that I'd lob this out to the group considering that there are probably several programmer-types on the list. I'm looking for a decent, cheap (well, free, or close to it) ActiveX control for MSVC++ that implements a 7- or 14-segment LED display? I've spent most of the night searching for one, but most of what I come up with are VBX controls. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Rich Rich Cini ClubWin! Group 1 Collector of Classic Computers Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ /*****************************************/

25 years, 4 months

Digital Ethernet Local Network Interconnect (DELNI)

by hsappleton＠sprintmail.com

I recently came into possession of about half a dozen of the Digital Ethernet Local Network Interconnect (DELNI). This is about 4 more than I need. I am willing to trade them singularly for something anyone has that can peek my interest. I am particularly interested in items that is associated DEC, HP and IBM workstation Headley ===================================================================== PH: 302-798-1930 Fax: 302-798-0243 Mobile: 302-983-4293

25 years, 4 months

"Real" emulation...

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> >> the add-on A-400 oscillator, used to tune your Moog back up as it drifted >> off pitch, which they all did more or less constantly. The documentation >> mentions retaining this feature even though the emulation no longer >> drifts. >> >> But: why not? Shouldn't it drift, actually? > >Hmm... This is a difficult problem. It was extreamly annoying trying to cut a track and keep pitch over time. >But as regards undesirable behaviour (computers that suffer from logic >problems in the design, synthesisers that drift), well, IMHO the >simulator should be _able_ to exhibit that behaviour as well. A processor >designed with a race hazard so that 1 cycle in 10^11 (or so) it does the >wrong thing should be emulated as having that problem. Maybe there should >be an option to turn it off (on the emulator) though. The bset examples is the 8085 and z80 undocumented instructions that all the vendors faithfully reproduced for that exact reason. >It's not going to be trivial to implement that. Not only do you have to >be able to emulate the machine when some components aren't working >properly (how many people know what (say) a PDP8/e would do if a given >gate was stuck at 0 or stuck at 1, what would happen if one input on a >multi-input gate stopped working), you also have to allow for idiots like >me who want to 'cut tracks', inject arbitrary signals, etc. Are you going >to allow me to 'desolder' components and test them separately. I am >thinking about gates that 'go slow' -- I've had 74S TTL that tests fine >at slow speeds (switches and LEDs on a breadboard) but which fails when >run at full speed. This sort of fault is painful to find because often >the machine works correctly when single-stepped as well. Yes emulating N^X error states is not a lot of fun for something as simple as PDP-8 and it gets worse for more complex systems. Not many would want that save for those training in repair methods. Allison

25 years, 4 months

"Real" emulation...

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

From: Will Jennings <xds_sigma7(a)hotmail.com> >said hardware in operation... From the Ubergeek perspective, then yes, I'd >think you want the emulator to be weird like the real hardware, though it >could be good to have a less flaky version for those who are merely curious >and have never experienced the real hardware... On the other hand, if you're They important item is to be sure the said oddity is really real or some side effect of age, errors in assembly or just bad programming. I also agree with Will, introducing errors is not a desired case. Most floppies actually worked with reasonable reliability. Allison

25 years, 4 months

RD-51's

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

From: jeff.kaneko(a)juno.com <jeff.kaneko(a)juno.com> > >Anybody want some rd-51's? They're the real >McCoys, blessed and badged by DEC. They even >come with sleds. 10mb for those that don't know. Also the sleds are handy for those needed to mount a drive in many of the DEC cases. Allison

25 years, 4 months

Fwd: Re: OT-ish : Centronics printer port timing

by rivie＠teraglobal.com

>Many years ago, a company I used to work for did a >Centronics port for TURBOchannel. The timing we wound >up using was data stable 500nS before strobe, strobe >lasts 1mS, data remains stable until 500nS after >strobe. IIRC, this is fairly close to what we found >in Centronics documentation, but I don't remember >what documents we found or what the exact numbers >in that document were. I'm sorry; I had a bit of a brain fart. The strobe lasts for one microsecond, not one millisecond. -- Roger Ivie rivie(a)teraglobal.com Not speaking for TeraGlobal Communications Corporation

25 years, 4 months

VT510 keyboard?

by cmcmanis＠mcmanis.com

Does the VT510 use a PC type PS/2 keyboard? (ie can I steal one from a PC and use it on the terminal?) --chuck

25 years, 4 months

Annoying high pitched squeal

by eweidenh1＠hotmail.com

I recently acquired an Atari 1040f from a friend. It came with the SC1224 color monitor which, for some reason gives off a really awful high pitched sound. Does anyone have some idea why this might happen? It scares my cat. Thanks. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

25 years, 4 months

FREE HD46505 CRT controller chips

by r_beaudry＠hotmail.com

Hello all, I have 19 spare Hitachi HD46505 CRT controller chips that I'd like to offer to the list members for free (you don't even have to pay postage). These chips are UNTESTED, so I make no guarantees... I believe, from looking at datasheets, that these are either a drop-in for, or very similar to, the 6845 CRT chip (the pinout is the same, and two of these are even marked with both the HD46505 and 6845P markings). However, I could be wrong, so caveat emptor... In order to be fair to all list members who might be interested, there are some rules.... - I will take off-list, emailed requests until Midnight, Jan 10, 2001 (US Eastern time). - You can request as many of the chips as you want, but depending on interest, you may only get one or two. - If more than 19 people respond, I will draw emails at random to give the chips out. I am willing to ship anywhere in the world that the US Postal Service allows me to ship the chips. Again, totally free... No, this is not some advertising scheme, and no, I am not harvesting any information from this. I have received a lot of help from list members in the past, and since I haven't been able to answer many questions on the list, this is my form of repayment... Thanks! Rich B.

25 years, 4 months

Real emulation

by ois140＠hotmail.com

So, I guess I'll have to add sound (and smell?) to my Wang minicomputer emulator to emulate the failure mode of the hard disk drive.... _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

25 years, 4 months

O.T.: Compu-Voxx ??

by lgwalker＠look.ca

I have a box in a nice well padded soft-case called a Compu-Voxx. It was manufactured by Manutronics. It has a removable antenna. It appears to be some sort of transmitting device for sending messages. Based on the instructions on the face you record a message (to a chip I imagine) and then send if the selectable digital readout frequency is between 88.1 and 107.9. That sounds like the AM band to me. Could this be some sort of civil defense emergency device ? It has a 5-pin DIN plug for power which unfortunately didn't come with it which is not an unsurmountable problem. Anyone know what this might be. ciao larry Reply to: lgwalker(a)look.ca

25 years, 4 months

NLS Test Gear

by jpl15＠panix.com

Non Linear Systems has a special place in my checkered past. When I was 13, an old engineer/ham friend of mine gave me an ancient (even then it was old!) NLS 3-digit DC DVM. I was absolutely in heaven. He said " Here ya go, kid, her's a box o' rattlesnakes fer ya!" For those who care.. this DVM used an auto-nulling resistance bridge implemented mainly with 10-pole 40-throw stepping switches. The wiper arms had a ratchet wheel run by a pawl connected to a hefty electromagnet. The device had one stepper for each decade (and hence, digit) with precision resistors soldered to the the switch banks. Applying DC voltage to the imput unbalanced the bridge, and the switches began operating until the bridge nulled out. One set of contacts on each decade switch was connected to a bank of tiny 356-style flange-base lamps, which were mounted in staggered rows in an aluminum holder. the holder was slotted to carry 11 thin clear plexiglass or acrylic panels, about 1" by 1.5", upon which the digits were engraved. (one for a period) When the required lamp was lit, it shone down thru a hole in the carrier for that particular panel, illuminating it edge-on and making it stand out from the other realtively dark panels in the stack. The last digit was a zero and it was damned hard to see in a bright room. It had two rack-mount chassis, the switching part and the thinner display unit, connected by the obligatory multi-core cable and massive winchester connector. The switch box was entirely lined with thick felt inside, to try and reduce the racket. I, of course, ran the thing open most of the time. Any change in the input levels caused the entire system to start at '000' and then work up to a null... the last bits of a reading would slow and then it would stop with the result in the display window, and it did sound like a mechanical snake.. rr-rrr-rrrrrr---r-r-tictic-tic...tic. It was my first piece of 'real' test gear and I'm kinda sorry now that it's gone. snif. snif. O well. No thanks, I don't want to buy another. I live too far away for the shipping to make sense.. ;} Cheers John

25 years, 4 months

Annoying high pitched squeal

by BGarvey355＠aol.com

In a message dated 1/7/2001 9:16:38 PM US Eastern Standard Time, eweidenh1(a)hotmail.com writes: > I recently acquired an Atari 1040f from a friend. It came with the SC1224 > color monitor which, for some reason gives off a really awful high pitched > sound. Does anyone have some idea why this might happen? It scares my cat. > Thanks. > It's usually a good sign that the monitor is about to die. You should here how an SC1224 sounds when the rear of the tube has been snapped off at the guns due to bad packaging and careless postal shipping and you unsuspectingly plug it in and power it up. Heeyyy, ya need some parts? ;-) BG

25 years, 4 months

"Real" emulation...

by xds_sigma7＠hotmail.com

To me, it really comes down to one major issue: Are you running an emualtor as a computer geek who likes to mess with antique stuff or are you running the emulator as a company whose software is dependent on this hardware, but finds it is no longer cost effect or perhaps even no longer possible to keep said hardware in operation... From the Ubergeek perspective, then yes, I'd think you want the emulator to be weird like the real hardware, though it could be good to have a less flaky version for those who are merely curious and have never experienced the real hardware... On the other hand, if you're depending on an emulator to flawlessly run your commercial apps, then you don't want it to ever crash, since a crashed emulator is lost time, which is lost money.. Note that this is only meant to paint a general picture... Will J _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

25 years, 4 months

Straight 8 Skins

by mburnet＠bigpond.net.au

Geoff, There is an overall diagram of the skins on page 1-12 of the PDP-8 Maintenance Manual. There are 3 pages of dimensional diagrams to the nearest eighth of a inch in Chapter 6, Installation Planning, of the PDP-8 user handbook. I will snailmail a copy to you. I doubt whether they are good enough to use for "manufacture" tho. The two side panels on the power supply would be relatively straight forward. They are rectangular, wood which could be covered with a woodgrain laminate, and aluminium edging. Little hooks on the back ensure they are held firmly to the classic PDP-8 chassis. The plastic doors would be much harder to make IMHO. We always refered to them as plexiglass doors. They are a single piece of transparent green plastic, with an opaque plastic top, plastic edging at bottom and aluminium strips at the front. I think it is all glued together. The plastic top has multiple, long slots cut in it for airflow. I have a desktop classic 8 (Sydney Aust, not much use!) and can take digital pics and send if that would help? If any of your readers wish, I can also offer a large wall poster of the classic PDP-8 and its teletype that I made some years ago. Cheers Max Max Burnet B A C K Burnet Antique Computer Knowhow Pty Ltd Mail PO Box 847 Pennant Hills NSW 2120 Phone +61 2 9484 6772 Mobile 0412 124 006 Email mburnet(a)bigpond.net.au Web www.terrigal.net.au/~acms/a102.htm

25 years, 4 months

Straight 8 Skins

by geoff＠pkworks.com

Indeed. But the trick is not how to make 'em look fake so that no one will be confused. I'm quite certain that can be arranged with precious little effort. The trick is getting either real skins (thereby circumventing all issues) or mechanical drawings of same so that my correspondent can refurb his Straight 8. Specifically; "...Cradle and module covers for a Straight-8 OR mechanical blueprints for same to convert formerly rack-mounted model to a desktop machine." Can anyone help this fella out? So far, the best information received is a partial from Max Burnet (Thanks again, Max!) from Down Under; can anyone better his information? -----Original Message----- From: Douglas W. Jones <jones(a)cs.uiowa.edu> To: aw288(a)osfn.org <aw288(a)osfn.org>; comp-hist(a)shrimp.osfn.org <comp-hist(a)shrimp.osfn.org> Cc: COMP-HIST(a)cca.org <COMP-HIST(a)cca.org>; aek(a)spies.com <aek(a)spies.com>; bitsavers(a)spies.com <bitsavers(a)spies.com>; bsupnik(a)us.inter.net <bsupnik(a)us.inter.net>; classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>; djg(a)drs-esg.com <djg(a)drs-esg.com>; geoff(a)pkworks.com <geoff(a)pkworks.com>; jones(a)cs.uiowa.edu <jones(a)cs.uiowa.edu>; mac(a)Wireless.Com <mac(a)Wireless.Com>; mbg(a)WORLD.STD.COM <mbg(a)WORLD.STD.COM>; nabil(a)teleport.com <nabil(a)teleport.com>; rcs-l(a)shrimp.osfn.org <rcs-l(a)shrimp.osfn.org> Date: Sunday, January 07, 2001 1:44 PM Subject: Re: Straight 8 Skins >One way to make sure the replicas are obviously replicas is to do them in >the wrong color. Honeywell orange metalwork, for example, with blue tinted >plexiglass instead of the grey that DEC used. Or, as suggested, just mark >them somewhere. > > Doug Jones > jones(a)cs.uiowa.edu >

25 years, 4 months

Straight 8 Skins

by jones＠cs.uiowa.edu

One way to make sure the replicas are obviously replicas is to do them in the wrong color. Honeywell orange metalwork, for example, with blue tinted plexiglass instead of the grey that DEC used. Or, as suggested, just mark them somewhere. Doug Jones jones(a)cs.uiowa.edu

25 years, 4 months

Straight 8 Skins

by geoff＠pkworks.com

Not to worry William, my correspondent is an honorable man, and I know that any reproduction work would be properly documented and marked. The real trick is finding the proper information so that the repro work can be done. I am fascinated to hear of replica Audions. Given the amount of work to make them, and make them well enough to fool people into spending big bucks, the forger had to do one heckovalotta work. If you're gonna steal from people because you're too lazy to work for a living, why make it that hard on yourself? Do something easier and more lucrative, like smuggling narcotic babyfood or something. <grin> -----Original Message----- From: William Donzelli <aw288(a)osfn.org> To: comp-hist(a)shrimp.osfn.org <comp-hist(a)shrimp.osfn.org> Cc: Geoffrey G. Rochat <geoff(a)pkworks.com>; comp-hist(a)shrimp.osfn.org <comp-hist(a)shrimp.osfn.org>; COMP-HIST(a)cca.org <COMP-HIST(a)cca.org>; rcs-l(a)shrimp.osfn.org <rcs-l(a)shrimp.osfn.org>; djg(a)drs-esg.com <djg(a)drs-esg.com>; aek(a)spies.com <aek(a)spies.com>; bsupnik(a)us.inter.net <bsupnik(a)us.inter.net>; mbg(a)world.std.com <mbg(a)world.std.com>; bitsavers(a)spies.com <bitsavers(a)spies.com>; classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>; mac(a)Wireless.Com <mac(a)Wireless.Com>; nabil(a)teleport.com <nabil(a)teleport.com>; jones(a)cs.uiowa.edu <jones(a)cs.uiowa.edu> Date: Sunday, January 07, 2001 12:32 PM Subject: Re: Straight 8 Skins >> The two side panels on the power supply would be relatively straight >> forward. They are rectangular, wood which could be covered with a woodgrain >> laminate, and aluminium edging. Little hooks on the back ensure they are >> held firmly to the classic PDP-8 chassis. >> >> The plastic doors would be much harder to make IMHO. We always refered to >> them as plexiglass doors. They are a single piece of transparent green >> plastic, with an opaque plastic top, plastic edging at bottom and aluminium >> strips at the front. I think it is all glued together. The plastic top has >> multiple, long slots cut in it for airflow. > >Geoff, if your freind does fabricate new covers for the PDP-8, please >tell him to mark it as a reproduction in a permanent, but un-obvious way. >For example, just a simple note like "REPLICA COVERS: 20 JUN 2001" etched >on each cover, inside, in the corner, in very small letters. This will >prevent some jerk in the distant future trying to sell it as a prototype, >or just paint a clearer picture of the provenance of the machine long >after it has changed hands a few times. Being an important machine >(PDP-8), it will always be valued highly and may greatly outlive its >current owner. > >Quite a few years ago, some guys started making replica Audions and other >very early tubes/valves. Some of them are marked, but many are not, and >at least a few people I know have been burned. > >William Donzelli >aw288(a)osfn.org >

25 years, 4 months

Custom board any cluse?

by cmcmanis＠mcmanis.com

Ok all you ex-aerospace contractor types out there, here is a challenge for you. My new VAX came from an Aerospace contractor and had a Q-bus board in it >from "K Systems Inc" (the parent company of Kaiser's gov't contractor business. according to Hoovers.com) The board is dual width Q-bus marked "K Systems" "AITG" "Rev C" On board it has a Z80B, Z80BPIO, AM9513 (floating point?) MK6116 (2K RAM), 2764 EPROM marked 35112A0B (c) 1993 KSI, and a part marked MK4501N-12 (what ever that is). Then it has a bunch of analog circuitry, four rotatable switches (set to 0,0,0,0), 7 thinline coaxial connectors, an LED, a 20 pin (10 x 2) connector, standard Q-bus decode logic with what looks like a bunch of dip switches to set the CSR and what looks like a temperature compenstated and potted crystal oscillator. I'm guessing its some sort of time base generator. I'm sure 'sho dev' won't know what the heck it is ! :-) --Chuck

25 years, 5 months

Yet another VAX has landed

by cmcmanis＠mcmanis.com

This is pretty cool, I have now got a BA212 based VAX for the House of VAX! I just picked up a VAX 4000/200 in a BA212 chassis and it is the first one I've ever seen outside of the MicroVAX "technical handbook"! Fortunately it came with all the parts (only some minor disassembly that was easily corrected). Unfortunately it did not come with the rack "drawer" that mounts it into a 19" rack. This will have to be corrected. Hopefully its presence will attract the necessary parts :-) For those who don't know what it is, the DEC BA212 chassis is a "low profile" rack mount chassis for a DEC Q-bus based VAX system. There is a similar chassis called the BA213 which sits vertically consumes 27" of rack real estate, and has drives in the top half and cards in the bottom half. The BA212 leaves the drives in the "front" but _behind_ the drives is lays a Q-bus backplane down horizontally "into" the rack taking up only 14" of space. This is why you need the drawer sides because to get at the cards you have to slide it way out of the rack! Anyway, I've got the 4000/200 front bezel for it (the version of the technical handbook I have doesn't mention the 4000/200 in this chassis because I believe it was introduced later) One of the neat features I discovered is that it has a couple of "feet" on the front that props up the front of the chassis if you have it out of a rack so that air can flow through it. Just really neat. I'll try to get some pictures of it and put it up on my VAX pages. --Chuck

25 years, 5 months

RD-51's

by jeff.kaneko＠juno.com

Hi Gang-- Anybody want some rd-51's? They're the real McCoys, blessed and badged by DEC. They even come with sleds. $1 plus shipping. I'll even test 'em to make sure they work. Jeff ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

25 years, 5 months

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test-drb January 2001