I recently read about an intresting old portable (luggable?) called the
Rover I. This is an intresting machine because instead of using floppy
drives like most portables, it uses wafertape drives (now *there's* a
storage system that never really took off, but I have heard that they were
reasonably popular on TRaSh-80's.)
My question: What is it? Does it exist? Was it ever released?
____________________________________________________________
David Vohs, Digital Archaeologist & Computer Historian.
Computer Collection:
"Triumph": Commodore 64C, 1802, 1541, FSD-1, GeoRAM 512, Okimate 20.
"Leela": Macintosh 128 (Plus upgrade), Nova SCSI HDD, Imagewriter II.
"Delorean": TI-99/4A.
"Monolith": Apple Macintosh Portable.
"Spectrum": Tandy Color Computer 3.
"Boombox": Sharp PC-7000.
____________________________________________________________
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>From previous usenet posting:
The bulbs look like the 8 bulbs, they can still be purchased from DEC
12-09169-00 LAMP, 15V @ .040AMP MAX, .075 $2.00
See web page http://www.digital.com/info/DAS-Catalog/dassearch.htmhttp://x35.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=534721209&CONTEXT=956232079.1091174408&hit…
On the 8/I I think the serial # is on the back of the frame, one has
two plates M26 8I L3221 and M26 8I SYS3194, which is the newer
of the machine, it also has a DEC looking piece of paper glued to the
bottom of the frame below the wirewrap dated 3/28/72. This is a negibus
also. Plates labeled M26 8I L3221 and M26 8I SYS3194. This one has chips
69-72.
The older? is M-2 L-927. It has a bunch of blue and other color wires which
I assume are ECO's or options added later. It doesn't have any of the
option plates on the top of the frame. The one above only has a few.
Most of it's chips are 68, it has some of the blue Sprague chips.
Sorry, only have the one copy of 8/I manuals that I scanned.
David Gesswein
After looking around on the net for a Dec MMJ terminal cable and finding
conflicting sources for their pinouts, I figured it would be just easier to
drive the 225mi round trip to dig around again int my favorite scrapper's
junk piles... As luck would have it, I did find 4 of the cables and two
RJ?? to db25 adapters.
So... I speed home and hook up a few of the VaxStation 3100's for a virgin
spin via the(MMJ) console and get:
KA43-A V1.3
F...E...D...C...B...A...9...8...7...6...5...4...3_...2_...1?...
? C 0080 0000.40001
?? 1 00C0 0000.7004
>>>
I'm guessing this is a memory or media fault but I'm not sure... Anyone?
Also, I finally opened rack #4 of the 11/44 system
http://users.leading.net/~dogas/classiccmp/digital/pdp1144.htm )
I picked up that was supposedly empty... And inside is a SC008 Star Coupler
and User Manual! A little happy dance ensued, of course, but I thought
these things were just for vax clusters. Can a 44 be a node along side
MicroVAXen ???
I also found a reference on the web
http://www.tapr.org/tapr/html/internethistory/slide10.html ) that asserts
that tcp was first written for a 44 too, is that true?
Sorry for all the dec boneheadedness.
Thanks
- Mike: dogas(a)leading.net
"Mike":
> ? C 0080 0000.40001
> ?? 1 00C0 0000.7004
> [...]
> I'm guessing this is a memory or media fault but I'm not sure... Anyone?
Nope. "C" refers to the serial ports, "?" probably because you don't
have a keyboard or mouse connected. "1" is the Ethernet port, with
"0000.7004" saying that it's in the BNC mode, and nothing's connected.
Only the "??" will stop it from trying to boot automatically. Connect a
BNC "T" with a pair of 50-ohm terminators to eliminate this complaint.
No one cares about the other one. See, for example,
"http://www.antinode.org/dec/vs3100_diag.html" (and its friends) for
more details. (Most of the VAXstation 2000 diagnostics info applies to
the 3100 series, too.) Try "TEST 50" and "SHOW DEVICE" for more and
better info.
I haven't tried it, but I'd bet a quarter that an AltaVista or Deja
search for 0000.7004 would tell you more than you might expect. This
may be _the_ most common/problem question on these things.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steven M. Schweda (+1) 651-699-9818 (voice, home)
382 South Warwick Street (+1) 763-781-0308 (voice, work)
Saint Paul MN 55105-2547 (+1) 763-781-0309 (facsimile, work)
sms(a)antinode.org sms(a)provis.com (work)
In a message dated 4/19/00 7:03:03 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
netsurfer_x1(a)hotmail.com writes:
> I recently read about an intresting old portable (luggable?) called the
> Rover I. This is an intresting machine because instead of using floppy
> drives like most portables, it uses wafertape drives (now *there's* a
> storage system that never really took off, but I have heard that they were
> reasonably popular on TRaSh-80's.)
wafertape - you mean stringy floppy? i have an exatron stringy floppy drive
with my trs80 model 1. no tapes though. anyone have any? a guy i worked with
has a stringy floppy drive with his model 1 and he said it was much better
than cassette tape. i think it was random access type device too. i think he
said you could store ~100k per wafertape. really looks like fishing line in a
little tape case.
DB Young ICQ: 29427634
view the computers of yesteryear at
http://members.aol.com/suprdave/classiccmp/museum.htm
--You can lead a whore to Vassar, but you can't make her think--
Hi,
I think I heard somewhere that magnetic drums are somewhat like core memory,
i.e. they retain their contents when shut off... I believe I read this in
the IBM 704 manual, so I'm not entirely certain that facts about those drums
(8192 36-bit words!) can really be applied to the drums I'm going to be
getting, which are from Vermont Research and are approximately 256K or so..
Also, does anyone know what other computer companies used drums from Vermont
Research? They're for my Interdata 7/32, but I know at least Varian used
Vermont Research drums... any others?
Will J
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>Boggles the mind, doesn't it? I remember that I paid $1250 for the first
>ST506 I bought. It even said Shugart Technology rather than Seagate
>Technology . That was 5 MB.
Managed to get my St506 in mid 81 for much less than half that.
connections.
>Well, if you're willing to believe that what's in the timing diagrams,
after
>you see they clearly violate other spec's, you can do that. I prefer to
>latch the data to ensure that I have it. Likewise, whether I have to write
>two locations or the same one twice, the data has to be latched. You also
Didnt' say you didn't need the latch only you didnt need an extra FF to
track
the silo status.
>'646..'654 type device, which won't work the way that's needed because
>they're edge-triggered, you'll run up the parts count. After all, you have
>to latch the low byte on writes and the high byte on reads. I think saving
What about 573s? Thats what I used. though the proto used ls373s.
>parts by leaving out functionality is risky here. If you write the high
>byte to the latch first, then write the low byte AND high byte, in a single
>unlatched write for the low byte, it may work, but now you can't use those
>handy instructions that make the Z-80 handier than the 8080/8085.
Well true, but then I don't always use z80. one version happens to use a
8749 with a 8155 and 8251 to serialize the data for a low speed net.
I only said I didnt' require the FF to track the data, not that it would
allow INIR.
>IMHO, once you have more than two components you have to look at
>programmable logic. I'm convinced that a CPLD, a small one, in fact, is
the
>correct solution here, except in the case of an 8-bit capable drive, in
>which case no logic at all is needed, beyond what's already there.
I have 2064s and 3030s but those packages are a real pain to wirewrap.
Then I ahve to balast a erpm with the pattern and wire that too. No savings
in wiring. For a PC card, yep, the only way.
>Yes, it's been done, and if I'm going to do the 16-bit interface, I'm going
>to do it with what's essentially their code. That means a pretty similar
>interface, which, by the way, is pretty minimal. It does latch both bytes
>of the data at the port.
Still no need to do that. you only latch the data you cant transfer
immediately.
Saves one latch though you could use it for a gated buffer if you wanted to.
>What matters to me more than making the extended versions of CP/M work, is
>making the REAL CP/M work.
Been there done that. It's easy enough, I have working examples. the
problem is with 8mb logical disks I tend to fill them and ploughing through
1000+ files
is a real pita to look at on the tube and slower than sludge cpu time wise.
Keep in mind I've been running CP/M since 1.4 was new. I have over
12 systems in the room that are running CP/M now. maybe another 5
that would run save for they are on the shelf (run but, are in storage).
Running systems CP/M more than half of which are running BIOS of my
design and ZCPR3. Some have mods to CPM like banked BIOS:
* means it's anything but stock and is a production use machine.
* hurikon MLZ92 Multibus CPM 2.2, banked.
* ISC8010 (modded) with NEC BP575 and BP2190 (two of them) running
banked with 3.5" floppies. (another multibus crate)
NS* horizon (restored, dual MDS-A) running Lifeboat CP/M 1.4
* NS* horizon with expansions and my own controllers runnign banked
ZCPR/SUPRBDOS/bios (CP/M2.2 compatable with extensions).
Current controller has 71mb (RD53). Controller is WD1002WXS with
Z80 frontend to the bus. this crate is 22years old and nothing near
stock.
NS* Advantage (restoring), 15mb CCS and floppy CP/M2.2 in 128k
Has a unique bios that attaches the NS hard disk DOS tot he cpm file
system allowing definable partitions.
* CCS runing their version and also a version of 2.2 I assembled for
Compupro
Controller (disk 1A)..
DEC vt180 (in Vt100) stock
* DEC VT180 (standalone, modded) running CP/M 2.2 from romdisk.
used as testbed for IDE, bubble memory. Runs at 6mhz (z80).
* AmproLB (scsi fujitsu 45mb) no mods other than cmos and it's production.
* Kaypro with Advent TURBOrom, 1 360k 5.25 and two 781k 3.5" floppies plus
2mb ramdisk.
Visual 1050 ( restored 128k CP/M 3) with dual 5.25 96tpi 781k, 20mb
Xebec
controller.
* Visual 1050 (modded, IDE 120mb). Banked bios CP/M2.2
* Compupro crate, NS* z80 cpu with MMU added 256k ram, Disk -1a controller
and IDE (85mb).
* Epson PX-8, with 120mb wedge CPM2.2 from rom. My laptop.
Allison
>drive work. I'm interested in the ones too small to bring even $10 at the
>flea market, i.e. the ones that are 10x what I need but only cost $6 or so.
Ok that ranges up to maybe 500mb now.
>It takes more than a latch, by the way, since you have to latch and hold
the
>low byte on writes, and the high byte on reads, in order not to screw up
the
>order of the bytes. Consequently, you need not only the two latches, but a
>bit of logic to effect the byte steering on reads and to perform the write
>after the CPU does the write, since the only time you can guarantee data
>valid is at the very end of the write strobe.
Limited logic, one latch. No rule said only one address for the data read
or write.
>The reason I'm whoring after the few drives with this feature included is
>that when this feature was available, if at all, the popular drives were of
>about the "right" capacity for the typical application of CP/M.
Of course when the IMSAI and Altair were around that would be casette tape,
8" floppy (SSSD 256k) or maybe minifloppy (80k).
Better find two as likely they will be so old that any reliability has been
run
out of them.
The nice part of a real 16bit interface is if it fails any drive make a good
replacement even if I dont choose to use all of it. that and despite the
claim that 8080 and cpm was slow they do run better with fast drives and
ramdisks proved that. So a fast drive (13-15ms or so, 4500rpm) with a
cache of say 32-256k does indeed improve perfomance.
Since IDE has been done for CPM (several articles in TCJ) and SCSI
even longer the idea of the right size is really a red herring to me. In the
CPM world the right size was literally whatever you had or could get
you hands on, the bigger the better. Even the deblocking example
in the CP/M-2.0 alteration guide they talk about how taking advantage
of it enabled a 35mb drive to be formatted using larger sectors to 57mb
with better perfomance. that was written in 1981. The concept was the
abiltiy to interface to almost any storage hardware via an extensable BIOS.
My current project is to take CP/M V2.2 and capitalize on P2DOS (suprbdos,
novados, Zrdos etal) clones and add a heirarchal directory to get past the
former flat structure (user areas helped only a little) and stay compatable
with apps that ran under V2.2. After all I want is better and not obsolete
perfectly good software.
Allison
----- Original Message -----
From: <sms(a)antinode.org>
To: <SIPKE(a)wxs.nl>
Sent: Saturday, April 08, 2000 6:27 PM
Subject: no chars on uVAX console
> Is that the speed selected by the rotary switch on the console
> bulkhead?
Yep
I've removed all boards save the memory boards (2*M7609)
and the CPU (M7606-AA)
Now I get characters (XON/OFF = on) and the bootprocess continues
until char 3
I've tried to put some of the boards back but I am not sure if I have a
missing
board.
Het boards were arranged as follows
slot 1 ----------------M 7606------------------
slot 2 ----------------M 7609------------------
slot 3 ----------------M 7609------------------
slot 4 -----M7516-------- (empty)
slot 5 -----M7555-------- ------M7546------
slot 6 (empty) ---Dilog sq703a---
The uVAX used to contain a Serial concentrator or something
like it but that was removed, propably from one of the
empty slot positions.
I've gathered that the first 4 slots are different from the rest of
the BA123, those beeing true Qbus 22 slots.
Should I rearrange the boards ? If so what do you suggest?
Sipke de Wal
-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Pachla <peter.pachla(a)wintermute.org.uk>
To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Date: Monday, April 17, 2000 5:09 PM
Subject: Re: CPU upgrades, pt. II
>Hi,
>
> > Heres a PS2/50z question.
> >
> > Mine only has 1meg, looks like 72pin simm but none I have seem
> >work. All of them happen to be 8x32 (16chip).
>
>I don't really know too much about PS/2s yet, I'm only just starting to
>investigate these machines (I've got 3 - a Model 50, a Model 80 and a
Model
>95).
Ah, the model 95! The Ardent Tool of Capitalism itself! Makes a lovely file
server when running OS/2 or an old copy of NT 3.5. The machine is
indestructible, there's more than enough power and room for 3 or 4 modern
SCSI drives, and plenty of slots for a LANstreamer or two. If you don't
already have them, I'd suggest upgrading to a Type 4 (Pentium 60 or 66)
complex, and an IBM Fast/Wide SCSI controller. Alternatively, many of the
older complexes can take Evergreen or other upgrade CPUs, with the suitable
interposer.
The only downside of PS/2s these days is that 100 Meg Ethernet cards for
MCA are very hard to find.
You'll grow to love that Model 95 - I plan to have mine used as my
headstone when the time comes : v )
Cheers,
Mark
