>Funny, I've been using Kermit since 1981 and FTP since 1985 and
>I still don't know which egg/chicken came first.
>They seem awfully similar from a user's standpoint.
>Anybody know If FTP is based on Kermit or Vice-Versa?
The first RFC for FTP is RFC 765, from June 1980. It begins:
The objectives of FTP are 1) to promote sharing of files (computer
programs and/or data), 2) to encourage indirect or implicit (via
programs) use of remote computers, 3) to shield a user from
variations in file storage systems among Hosts, and 4) to transfer
data reliably and efficiently. FTP, though usable directly by a user
at a terminal, is designed mainly for use by programs.
Note that today there are few "programs" that know how to speak FTP
directly, when someone says "FTP this" they almost always mean running
the user-types-command-to-a-FTP-client.
(Yes, there certainly are some programs that know how to speak FTP, I'm
just pointing out that this isn't as common as the originators of the
protocol wanted. If anything, it seems to be gaining in popularity
as a "built-in" protocol, for example wget will take a ftp: or http:
URL quite interchangably.)
The user interface for both Kermit and FTP certainly are similar, and
that shouldn't be a surprise, since the "big iron" being hooked up to
other "big iron" in that day was almost always PDP-10 to PDP-10. Both
the Kermit and FTP command styles are descended from the PDP-10 conventions
(the TOPS-20 monitor in particular.)
--
Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com
Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/
7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917
Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927
I wrote:
>The first RFC for FTP is RFC 765, from June 1980. It begins:
Whoops, I found several earlier ones, extending all the way back to
RFC 354 (from 8-Jul-1972). This references RFC264, which doesn't seem
to exist anymore.
Tim.
>I was just looking over a notebook on what appears to be an OS called
>Storage Machine 1 by FileTek. I was wondering if anyone knows anything
>about this, and what hardware it ran on. Some notes identify the
>cartridge tape drive as "TK50" and the system seesm to have had a big optical
>disk library device, about 2.3 or 2.6 gigs.
>
>Does this sound familiar to anyone? It came in a pile of material from a
>DG Nova system.
>From www.filetek.com:
William C. Thompson and John Burgess founded FileTek in 1984 to
address the need for making very large volumes of offline
information accessible to online users of mainframes
minicomputers, and networked workstations. They firmly believed
that historic detail has an increased value when organizations can
access and use it productively.
In 1987, FileTek introduced its first product, Storage Machine/1, a
shared client/server-based, automatically managed storage server.
This innovative data server used sophisticated storage management
software to control a storage hierarchy of magnetic disk and write
once read many (WORM) optical technology.
--
Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com
Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/
7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917
Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927
>>>It would be really nice if this software just asked the end user to load a
>>>paper tape, then huit return, and it sends the data read out a separate
>>>serial port, then prompts to load the next one.
>
>>What sort of paper tape reader are you using? If it's a serial reader,
>>you can hook it straight up to a PC-clone running MS-DOS and MS-Kermit
>>(or Linux and C-Kermit) and archive the tapes that way. Both MS-Kermit
>>and C-Kermit include powerful scripting languages.
>PC05 with a PC11 controller.
OK, you can hook the PC05 up to a PC, but you'd have to do some re-wiring
and write the simple code to read it. If you've already got a running RT-11
system with the PC11 in it up and running, it's probably easier if
you use Kermit on the RT end and a Kermit script on the PC-clone to
do the automation and user prompting.
OTOH I could run all the tapes through the machinery here in a few days,
as well. It's too bad that you have to do it all in just a few days
before they're gone, setting up the automation on your end with your equipment
sounds like it might end up taking most of your allotted time, when such
archiving (ideally) shouldn't be done in such a rush.
How many feet total are we talking about, 10 thousand feet, 30 thousand
feet, 100 thousand feet? Remember than 10 thousand feet is (approximately)
1.2 megabytes, and takes a bit more than an hour if you can run it
continuously through a PC05's 300 char/sec reader.
--
Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com
Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/
7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917
Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927
Does anyone have any pointers to sites on the web which cover Altos
machines? I've done a search on Yahoo and a couple of other places and
turned up nothing.
I'm particularly interested in information on the Unix systems they were
making around 1990 - we had one at work, an i386 in a tower case. Not PC
compatible IIRC, possibly called an "Altos III" or something similar.
While I'm on the subject, would anyone in the UK have one of these they want
rid of?
TTFN - Pete.
--
Hardware & Software Engineer. Sound Engineer.
Collector of Arcade Machines, Games Consoles & Obsolete Computers (esp DEC)
peter.pachla(a)wintermute.org.uk | www.wintermute.org.uk
--
I have somewhere a GAO report that lists the problems, lifetimes, and
quantities of data that the US government has on different magnetic media.
IIRC the big problem with magentic media is that it is never stored in the
correct environmental conditions that provide optimum lifetimes. They
included pictures of piles of 9-track tapes of LANDSAT data, some of the
stacks were used to block open the door to the tape library. Humidity and
heat are big problems for tape.
Here are several references about data storage and media
Preserving Digital Objects: Recurrent Needs and Challenges. Michael Lesk.
Bellcore. Abstract. We do not know today what Mozart sounded like on the...
URL: www.lesk.com/mlesk/auspres/aus.html
. Effects of Humidity on Life Expectancy of Media. Long-Term Preservation of
Dig <http://www.safesupplies.com/article1.html>
Long-Term Preservation of Digital Materials. Dr. John W.C. Van
Bogart National Media Laboratory. Presented at the National Preservation
Office (NPO)...
URL: www.safesupplies.com/article1.htmlhttp://www.cclabs.missouri.edu/~ccgreg/tapes.html
Magnetic Tape and Digital Media Life Expectancies
Preservation of New Technology
<http://palimpsest.stanford.edu/byauth/lesk/lesk2.html>
...as digital media, DAT cartridges, 9-track tape in...
...example, half-inch 9-track magnetic tape densities have...
palimpsest.stanford.edu/byauth/lesk/lesk2.html - Cached
</search?q=cache:palimpsest.stanford.edu/byauth/lesk/lesk2.html> - 58k -
GoogleScout
</search?num=10&q=related:palimpsest.stanford.edu/byauth/lesk/lesk2.html>
I think that the September 1995 issue of Scientific American had an article
about preserving digital data.
Mike
>> The 3.5" square (exactly) daughter board plugs directly into and
>> only into where the Z80 CPU normally resides. The board contains:
>> Z80 CPU, AM25LS252IPC, 2 x SN74LS245N, SN74LS00N, 74F32PC chips
>> with assorted resistors etc. There is a 26 way berg connector to
>> take the cable to the IEEE-488 port. Also there is a 8-way link
>> box with 5 unbroken links, 2 broken links and 1 remade link.
> I don't like to say things like this, but I think I am justified...
>'Impossible!'
> You've got an address decoder (AM25LS2521 == 74LS688 IIRC), a
> couple of bidirectional bus buffers ('245s), and a few gates ('00
> NANDs and '32 ORs). What you don't have is any form of latch, which
> is what you'd need for an output port. Since the IEEE-488 bus can
> run a lot more slowly than the Z80 bus, it's going to need such
> latches, at least for output. There are several possibilites.
> Either you've missed out some chips (like '374s, or even a true
> IEEE-488 chip like the 9914 or 7210). Or this is _not_ the IEEE-488
> option. I suspect the latter, actually. I would be very suprised if
> the RML IEE-488 option was a daughtercard that fitted under the
> CPU. Everything I can find out about it suggests it's a normal Z50
> bus card. This sounds like some kind of bus buffering/extension
> card, sort of like the IDE interface (although obviously
> incompatable with the PC type of IDE). Are you sure this is not
> some kind of strange winchester interface. It could well be the
> host adapter for (say) a WD1001 card or something like that.
Please feel free to say 'impossible' - my knowledge of electronics
at this level is minimal. I will now write out 100 times 'Failure
to pay due regard to warnings repeatedly given, brings in its train
dire consequences which might easily been avoided by the use of a
little self restraint' (school line). As you have pointed out
whatever this is, the person who installed it just made use of
the convenient sized hole marked IEEE port. Nothing which
came with the equipment (originally from Oxford University,
then from Biomechanical Engineering at UWCM (University of
Wales, College of Medicine), used that port.
Doug.
>I am spending all my time right now packing and rackmounting - I have no
>time to write anything. I will have some people come over and feed in the
>paper tape this weekend. While I won't be able to archive most of it, I do
>hope to at least read in most of the source code on paper tape. (I have over
>310 PDP-1 paper tapes alone).
>
>This program needs to be *very* easy to use and hopefully supports
>X/Y-MODEM. I will set up a terminal program at this end that supports 32
>character file names (windows 98). This program would have to run under
>RT11-V3B, or RT11V4 BL. Hopefully it would send the code down a serial line
>separate serial port.
Umm, what's wrong with Kermit? The latest Kermit for RT does just fine under
RT-11 V4, and Kermit is available for just about every other piece
of hardware ever created. See ftp://kermit.columbia.edu/
>It would be really nice if this software just asked the end user to load a
>paper tape, then huit return, and it sends the data read out a separate
>serial port, then prompts to load the next one.
What sort of paper tape reader are you using? If it's a serial reader,
you can hook it straight up to a PC-clone running MS-DOS and MS-Kermit
(or Linux and C-Kermit) and archive the tapes that way. Both MS-Kermit
and C-Kermit include powerful scripting languages.
Remember, you *don't* have to start from scratch, others of us have
been archiving this sort of stuff for many years.
--
Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com
Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/
7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917
Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927
--- "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh(a)aracnet.com> wrote:
> Personally, when and if mine ever shows up at CC, then I'll be paying with
> *cash*.
Don't sweat it. NP has already said that only units ordered directly
>from them are subject to automatic account activation on the credit card
that ordered it. Fair or not; legal or not; that is their policy. Units
ordered through CC are not activated until plugged into the phone system
and turned on. After all, they ship those whenever and they sit around
at CC until they are bought (if they weren't 1000's of units backlogged ;-)
There's no way to regulate that.
The bad news is that NP is explictly shipping to direct customers in
preference to CC customers. Mine is still on backorder through CC and
likely will be for weeks. I'm number 10 out of 100 at my store alone.
There are six stores within driving distance. They have received two
units in two weeks. :-(
The only good news is that units with a 21-Mar-2000 manufacture date appear
to be unmodified. Who knows what the future may bring. For the $106 mine
will cost (with tax), I'll take the risk that I have to remove epoxy or
solder in a header.
-ethan
=====
Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to
vanish, please note my new public address: erd(a)iname.com
The original webpage address is still going away. The
permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/
See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details.
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