On February 12, Mark Tapley wrote:
> AT&T 6300 and Xerox box - these two looked identical except different
> color schemes. Both $6.95, "as-is" and the Xerox says "works". Xerox
> claimed to be made in Italy, I didn't check AT&T.
The AT&T 6300 was actually made by Olivetti, in Italy...
Be aware that 6300s use proprietary (and very nice, IMO) monitors.
-Dave McGuire
Guys:
I have a bunch of stuf that (more or less) makes up
a spares kit for the the CDC 9448.
Stuff includes:
I/O Circuit Card
CNTL/MUX Card
Servo Coarse Board
Servo Fine Board
Read/Write Card
Extender Board
3 R/W Heads
Maintainence Manual (including schematics).
As far as I can tell, all of this stuff is
new, except for maybe one of the R/W heads.
I can't use it, maybe someone here can.
If there's any interest in this, please contact me
privately.
Thanks.
Jeff
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-----Original Message-----
From: CLASSICCMP(a)trailing-edge.com <CLASSICCMP(a)trailing-edge.com>
To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Date: Saturday, February 12, 2000 11:07 AM
Subject: Re: RX01 Bootstrap Loader
>>Due to the instruction set incompatibilities between the 11/20 and other
>>11s, will they even run RT11 V30B with 8K core?
>
>RT11 V03B ought to be OK, as long as you have enough memory. I know that
>12K words core is enough (I have V03B on an 11/04 with 12K core), I suspect
>it will fit in 10 or 8K.
The monitor only uses 2K core and expects 8. (SJ).
>
>If you try to run RT-11 5.5 or 5.6 on an 11/20, you'll get some complaint
>because EIS instructions found their way into a few utilities and drivers.
>This has been rectified for 5.7; see the 5.7 release notes for details.
>
I am more concerned about the incompatibilities in the basic instruction
set. I am going to try boot RT11 V3B. If not, I'll try plain ver 3, then
maybe 2.
I know DEC discontinued the 11/20 in '73 which was during the initial
development of the OS's.
john
PDP-8 and other rare mini computers
http://www.pdp8.com
>--
> Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com
> Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/
> 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917
> Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927
>
<It's been mentioned before, but try http://www.spamcop.net.
<If you report the SPAM, a appropriate administrator can
<shut down the violator.
Cool. I suspect that IPexpress.net is a "promoter" of spam.
<Using it requires a browser, however, and every time I suggest
<something that benefits browser users, the remarks fly that
No biggie other than my config the browser is seperate from mail, however
cut and pates works fine.
Allison
Well, here in the Land of the Free, there's too much exercise of freedome
not guaranteed in any document anywhere, and not tolerated in countries in
Europe. It would be so much simpler if there were only one punishment for
all violations of the law, as so many infractions are worthy of that
ultimate punishment, DEATH. The only thing that seems to vary is WHOSE
death. If every offense were met with immediate extermination, perhaps
followed by a posthumous apology, a lot of people would behave differently,
and nobody would park in my reserved space.
In civilized countries, and NOT the U.S, it's common for citizens to turn in
their neighbors for viloating the law simply because they observe a law
being broken, and not because it has effect on their lives. The fact is
that HERE, in the U.S. a person picking up the phone and notifying the
police that there's a minor crime in progress within his view is considered,
even by the police, worse than the offender.
In the U.S. the observable lack of civilization is evidenced in the
inability of people to inhabit a limited space as the Europeans have known
for centuries to do. For us Americans, it's growing pains. Since there's
no more land to inhabit, we're having to acquire some traits of civilized
societies because we're having to live together with more and more
strangers, often quite different form ourselves, racially, culturally,
linguistically, etc.
Over time we're going to have to move in the direction of the European
model, which we know works, and rely more on common observance of law as
opposed to trying to circumvent it.
Dick
-----Original Message-----
From: John Wilson <wilson(a)dbit.dbit.com>
To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Date: Friday, February 11, 2000 4:18 PM
Subject: Re: V chip (was: Going totally OT )
>On Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 10:25:38PM +0000, Hans Franke wrote:
>> Let me get this straight - there is some software to be implemented
>> on TVs and VCRs to disable them on a contend related base ?
>
>Right. But remember, we're still the Land of the Free, even though most
>European countries give their citizens a lot more freedom. See, any time
>the majority (or better yet, a well-funded and vocal minority) wants
something
>censored, it's not censorship -- the founding fathers were only trying to
>protect our rights to say stuff that everyone agrees with, they hate
>people with unpopular tastes or opinions.
>
>> Just
>> assuming that there will be some kind of add on signal (at this point
>> I'd like to get some technical information) suplying the level(s)
>> of whatever (what classes are named ?), who is responsible to
>> judge the content ?
>
>There, you've hit the biggest problem. My understanding is that it's just
>a single scale -- from "not offensive" to "very offensive", according to
>someone, somewhere. Since the government likes to see everything in terms
>of strict threshholds (55 MPH = no problem, 56+ MPH = OK to lay down tack
>strips and cause a fatal crash), they've convinced themselves that everyone
>is offended by the same stuff. So some invisible authority gets to decide
>what's offensive and what isn't and everything comes prepackaged (no I
>don't know what the protocol is for labeling the show but I assume it's
some
>between-visible-scan-lines thing like closed captioning is), so you're just
>supposed to set your TV for whatever age your kids are (they're all the
same
>age, right?) and leave it at that.
>
>> Also, are the TV stations also forced to supply the coding all the time ?
>
>I think it's supposed to be done per show. Like the current TV rating
system,
>where they put up a logo at the beginning of each show saying what its
rating
>is. Ridiculous... If I owned a TV network, I'd just set everything to
"most
>offensive" and forget about it.
>
>> BTW: I know there is violence on US-TV - but sex ?
>
>There's no *real* sex on US TV, but the bible thumpers are offended by even
>the hint of it. They think that nudity is inherently wrong, and I just
>*love* the illogic that you can say anything you want but you can't use
>certain words to say it. Say the exact same thing another way and you're
>OK though.
>
>Anyway this is all just another attempt to idiot-proof the world. Instead
of
>just sitting down with their kids at a young age and explaining what sex
>is and why it should be taken seriously, the lazy absentee parents think
>the right thing is for their kids to be prevented at all costs from even
>looking down in the bath tub, so that they have no idea what's really going
>on, and it all comes as a total shock to them when they turn 18.
>
>People are unbelievably repressed in this country though. I thought my
parents
>did a pretty good job of explaining everything, but they left some
important
>stuff out, like the fact that sex is fun! What a mind-bender, hearing
about
>neighbors etc. that had gotten pregnant "by accident", I couldn't possibly
>imagine how people would pull off such a complicated disgusting procedure
>without meaning to. Makes a whole lot more sense now!
>
>> If the judgement is
>> done by the producer, someone of a 'nude acceping' show may have a
>> different feeling about the 'sex rating' then the next guy who airs
>> some TV church stuff.
>
>Exactly! Personally, I'm seriously, DEEPLY offended by anything to do with
>organized religion, yet as far as the government is concerned that stuff
>is all strictly G-rated. So I'll never convince my TV to automatically
>skip those shows. I have no problem with nudity though, and if I had kids
>I'd want them to see plenty of it too, so that the novelty would wear off
>and they wouldn't go into total cranial shutdown the way most Americans do
>when they see it (since we're strongly conditioned to think that the only
>time anyone shows any skin is when they're about to have sex with you, so
>we act like idiots when we see people naked in other contexts). But that's
>the *main* thing the government wants to stop us from seeing.
>
>Anyway, I'm not saying the government is trying to gradually eat away at
our
>rights and subtly turn the USA into a totalitarian state so slowly that no
>one even notices. But if they WERE trying to do that, they'd go about it
>exactly this way!
>
>Well anyway, I was pissed off the *last* time the gov't forced everyone to
>pay for an unneeded feature in their TVs, which was closed captioning, but
>now I use it all the time! It's really handy when the actors are mumbling,
>or when they're talking in funny voices for no apparent reason (but the
>caption explains that they're quoting from a 1930s movie I never saw), or
>when my wife falls asleep but I want to keep watching.
>
>Yech, sorry about all this OT stuff, this has gotten pretty far from
finding
>goodies in dumpsters. I once hauled an IBM 029 keypunch out of a dumpster,
>does that make up for it? It was at the company I worked for so there was
>no problem with permission, the guys who tossed it in really relished the
>experience (I guess they hadn't been big fans of that keypunch back when it
>was the company's only input device) so they were telling everyone, I
flipped
>out of course but the same guys were nice enough to help me haul the thing
out
>again.
>
>I've also had pretty good luck with the friendly neighborhood engineering
>school, especially because they're too cheap to get dumpsters for every
>building so a lot of the time stuff sits on loading docks for weeks before
>it gets hauled off, so you can just take it away (as long as you're sure
>it's scrap). I got a mostly-complete ASR33 and another terminal that way a
>couple of years ago, and a few other things (found a VK100 GIGI minus the
PSU
>sitting by the curb with some other trash, outside RPI's linear accelerator
>a few years back). No need to get waist deep in transformer oil or
anything
>yucky like that...
>
>John Wilson
>D Bit
>--------------
>P.S. guess I spoke too soon about the drought of idiotic winter accidents
>being reported on our local TV news as "tragedies", apparently just last
night
>some bozo in Utica went snowmobiling in the dark and ate a tree at high
speed.
I don't know the technical details, but here's my understanding:
The V-chip is a device that will be installed by law in every VCR and TV
manufactured in the U.S., which will allow parents to selectively block
content that they find objectionable. So, for example, if I think it's o.k.
for my child to see a little bit of romance and sex, I could set the "Sex"
limit to 2 out of 5. If I wanted to block all violent programming, I could
set the "Violence" limit to 0 out of 5. The device would detect the Sex and
Violence levels of all incoming programming (I don't know who would rate
the programs). If the program is over the limit that I've set, the device
blocks the TV or VCR from showing the program.
Of course, given the number of people who can't even figure out how to
program their VCRs, I suspect that the kids will be better at changing the
limits than their parents - I presume that the system includes passwords or
something to prevent unauthorized changing of the limits.
I believe that the V-chip concept was invented by a Canadian company, but I
may be wrong on this.
Regards,
Mark Gregory
-----Original Message-----
From: Hans Franke <Hans.Franke(a)mch20.sbs.de>
To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Date: Friday, February 11, 2000 1:43 PM
Subject: Going totaly OT (was: Dumpster stories!)
>> On Thu, Feb 10, 2000 at 06:35:26PM -0000, Eric Smith wrote:
>> > I suppose people are going to think I'm a jerk for saying such a
thing,
>> > but IMNSHO the tragedy here isn't that the kids were killed, but that
>> > they hadn't been taught not to do such things.
>
>> I agree... My parents covered all this stuff -- they told us not to dig
inside
>> snowbanks because a plow might come, we all wore seat belts way before
there
>> was a law (bicycle helmets too), our parents strictly enforced what we
could
>> and couldn't watch on TV so there was no need for V chips (I can't
believe
>> they're making us pay for censorship devices now just because some
absentee
>> parent religious freaks got upset),
>
>Please, what are V-Chips - I always associate the NEC CPU series with
that.
>
>Gruss
>H.
>
>--
>Stimm gegen SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/de/
>Vote against SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/en/
>Votez contre le SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/fr/
>Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
>HRK
>
-----Original Message-----
From: CLASSICCMP(a)trailing-edge.com <CLASSICCMP(a)trailing-edge.com>
To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Date: Thursday, February 10, 2000 8:58 PM
Subject: RE: RX01 Bootstrap Loader
>>Like trying to find a needle in a haystack.....
>
>Not all *that* hard!
>
It actually was as I have all the material before '78. I thought it might be
in the PDP-11/05 manual but I could not get at it.. and pulling boxes of
RT11 would be a lot more headache than asking someone here.
>>Would anyone know which handbook/manual the RX01 bootstrap loader is in?
>
>The RT-11 Installation manual is one place, the RX11 manual is another,
>any of the "Microcomputer Interfaces" books that has the RXV11, ...
>
I found that in my own collection :-) . I just saw the abereviated version.
>>I need to toggle in the RX01 bootstrap into a PDP-11/20 with 4K config.
>
>You could just, say, go to
>
>
ftp://metalab.unc.edu/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/bootstrap
s/
>
>and fetch "rx01_boot.txt".
>
I saw that book was 1980. I checked 1976,78, peripheral handbooks.. no
luck.. Processor handbooks also didn't help too much. I knew I saw it
somewhere (prob. 11/05) but was not sure. Thanks for the help.
>What are you going to try to boot in just 4K, BTW? I'm scratching my
>head to figure out if even RT-11 V2 fit in that small a space...
>
I don't believe it will . Neither will RT11 V1. DOS/BATCH requires a minimum
of 8K too!
Even though RT11 only uses up 2K core it still won't load without 8K
minimum.
The only "OS" that supports 4K is "PTS-11".
I needed to boot RX01s as that is a lot easier to run diagnostics across a
bunch of 11/20s quickly... beats paper tape!. I have some old diagnostic
disks/diagnostic code on RX01s for the 11/20. Most of the PDP-11/20s I am
restoring have serial numbers under 400 so most manufactured at that time
were configured with paper tape and 4K core. Most of the 11/20s I got were
configured with paper tape/4k core. The *newer* ones have DECTape.
I am testing all the PDP-11/20s after a basic rebuild with 4K core.. I will
add more MM11-Es depending on what is requested.
Due to the instruction set incompatibilities between the 11/20 and other
11s, will they even run RT11 V30B with 8K core?
I expect most will probably just want PTS-11 and DOS/BATCH with an 8K core
system.
john
PDP-8 and other rare mini computers
http://www.pdp8.com
>--
> Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com
> Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/
> 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917
> Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927
>
>
On February 11, John Wilson wrote:
> Anyway this is all just another attempt to idiot-proof the world. Instead of
> just sitting down with their kids at a young age and explaining what sex
> is and why it should be taken seriously, the lazy absentee parents think
> the right thing is for their kids to be prevented at all costs from even
> looking down in the bath tub, so that they have no idea what's really going
> on, and it all comes as a total shock to them when they turn 18.
Exactly. This government is very big on "protecting the stupid".
Personally, I see it as "fighting Darwin"...natural selection can do
the right thing if left to its own devices.
Now, I don't have kids, so I'll not pretend to be an authority on
the subject...but it seems logical to me that keeping them informed
will go a lot farther than censoring the world for them.
How many people here *really* learned about the "birds & bees" from
their parents?
Wow, this IS off-topic!
-Dave McGuire
Thanks everyone.
I'm getting spammed and it's apparently from the opt-in thing that I'd
never opt-into!
Any solid suggestion how to shut this down. I firmly believe the "remove"
in these is fake or worse address validation. I wonder if the whole
remove this is bogus.
Allison
For example...
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