I'm interested in the old line numbered basics. Are there any web sites or email
lists regarding programming in the old basic languages?
Stephanie sring(a)uslink.net
The Comprehensive Computer Catalogue at
http://plato.digiweb.com/~hansp/ccc/ccorgs.htm
lists this computer as follows:
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"The ECD Corp's MicroMind was a 6502-based computer dating to around the
time of the Apple II. It had memory management (!) and an advanced video
display with downloadable fonts, up to 132 characters per line, and smooth
scrolling.
The prototypes were wire-wrapped, as were the initial (and only, alas)
models that were actually sold. Its smooth-scrolling capability, unique
among micros at the time, made it attractive to hospitals to present the
list of TV stations avilable on hospital channels. The cost of $8K was no
object.
The plan was to go to printed-circuit board, and ads were taken out in Byte
magazine offering the machine for $1500. Orders poured in, but the PC
version never appeared (the orders were all refunded). The 3 founders of ECD
laid off all its employees and held on for awhile, but ECD itself eventually
went bankrupt."
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I have a number of their ads and was wondering whether anyone has ever seen
one of these machines in person, or knows any one of the developers.
In a message dated 5/11/99 10:00:40 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
roblwill(a)usaor.net writes:
> I'm trying to set up a basic peer-to-peer network between my P200, a P70,
> the Mac, and a 5170 in the garage. I have cards for the PC's, but I need
> one for the Mac. I'm not sure what kind of card I need (first experience
> with a network), so I hope the ones I have for the PC's are the correct
type
> (they have the BNC connector). Is there any way to tell what type they are
> by looking at them?
well, any mac II series will need a nubus NIC. If most of the NICs have the
bnc (coax) connector, you'll have to get the same for the mac. Good thing is
that coax NICs (10base2) are easier to find since they are older. I was
lucky to find a combo NIC for my IIsi.
On May 11, 21:45, Jay West wrote:
> Subject: static bags
> I've pretty well run out of my supply of PCB antistatic bags
(appropriated
> from inbound work shipments) for storing spare cards.
>
> Does anyone know of a cheap source for antistatic ziplocks for storing
cards
> in? I have heard of just using aluminum foil, etc. Any words of wisdom
from
> the list?
Most electronics suppliers should sell them, though you might have to buy
them in tens or hundreds. they're certainly easy to get here. Another
cheap sopurce is often PC shops that assemble PCs; they get interface cards
and hard drives in them, and tend to throw them away.
The silvered ones are static shielded and static dissipative, the black
conductive ones are static dissipative, the pink ones are not very good at
anything (except perhaps keeping the dust off).
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Dept. of Computer Science
University of York
Upon the date 07:51 AM 5/12/99 -0700, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) said something
like:
>> >> I'm interested in the old line numbered basics. Are there any web
>> >>sites or email lists regarding programming in the old basic languages?
>> >Yipes, I thought they were all that way. ;) Then again I learned basic on a
>> >Data General via teletype. What sort of questions do you have?
>On Wed, 12 May 1999, Christian Fandt wrote:
>> Gee Stephanie, that question makes some of us feel *old*! :-)
>> Us 'older folks' learned BASIC back in the old days and knew it as always
>> having line numbers then. Mike falls within "our group" it appears.
>
>So, it's true!? There really are new dialects of BASIC without
>line numbers! And dialects of FORTRAN that don't require a FORMAT
>statement! And did you hear about "Visual COBOL"??
Yep! Imagine that!
>
>
>What is this world coming to?
It's plumb gone to Hell in a handbasket! :)
Seriously, the newer compilers/interpreters for the old time languages such
as BASIC, FORTRAN, etc. are benefiting from new ideas introduced in the new
generation of languages. This is of course possible not just because of
new thinking but because cheaper memory and cheaper mass storage allows
code to be added which implement those new fangled ideas. Kinda gotten out
of hand nowadays it seems judging from the amount of code bloat found in
some new compilers.
Back in the early days when every single byte of RAM and disk storage
counted, no matter what new idea came along it was hard to implement as it
had to be supported by hardware resources. And those resources were either
not invented yet or way too expensive for the majority of users.
>
>--
>Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin(a)xenosoft.com
Regards, Chris
-- --
Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian
Jamestown, NY USA cfandt(a)netsync.net
Member of Antique Wireless Association
URL: http://www.ggw.org/awa
And of course, let's not forget TimeShare BASIC on the HP2000! <grin>
It ran on 2100, 21MX, and 21MXE systems (all HP). That system brought up a
BASIC environment on each terminal (no access to other languages, etc.). No
editor either, to replace a line you just retyped the line using the same
line number.
According to Jeff Moffat's website, there was also a multiuser BASIC
available on the 2100. It appears to be a stripped down precursor to TSB.
Matter of fact, he has an emuator AND the images for the multiuser BASIC
available on his website. IIRC, it's at http://oscar.taurus.com/~jeff/2100
Cheers!
Jay West
-----Original Message-----
From: Christian Fandt <cfandt(a)netsync.net>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Wednesday, May 12, 1999 8:43 AM
Subject: Re: BASIC
>Upon the date 02:35 AM 5/12/99 -0700, Mike Ford said something like:
>>> I'm interested in the old line numbered basics. Are there any web
>>>sites or email lists regarding programming in the old basic languages?
>>>Stephanie sring(a)uslink.net
>>
>>Yipes, I thought they were all that way. ;) Then again I learned basic on
a
>>Data General via teletype. What sort of questions do you have?
>>
>
>Gee Stephanie, that question makes some of us feel *old*! :-)
>
>Us 'older folks' learned BASIC back in the old days and knew it as always
>having line numbers then. Mike falls within "our group" it appears.
>Nowadays, the apparent influences of other structured languages like the
>Pascal flavors, ADA, C/C++, etc. have allowed modern BASICs to be designed
>to not use line numbers, and hence, be somewhat more structured :)
>
>First BASIC I came across that didn't have line numbering was BASIC-09 that
>I used on my OS-9/68k industrial computer in the late 80's. The BASIC-09
>was first written for the 6809-based Radio Shack Color Computers (early
>80's vintage) which ran OS-9 Level 1 and was eventually ported over to the
>68000 level of OS-9. Compared with the OS-9 Pascal I also had, it looked
>quite similar. That brought me renewed respect for BASIC. *Structured*
>BASIC, that is.
>
>Regards, Chris
>-- --
>Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian
>Jamestown, NY USA cfandt(a)netsync.net
>Member of Antique Wireless Association
> URL: http://www.ggw.org/awa
>
>If you had a pile of impossibly dirty DEC Q-Bus boards,
>what would you do? (This includes the usual disk controller card,
>CPU/IO/Memory extender, a couple of corestacks, the backplane,
>and the regulator card).
Allison keeps mentioning putting them in the dishwasher...
I'm somewhat hesitant to do so. But she's had good luck
with doing it...
I'm sure she'll pipe in here with info on how to do it...
Megan Gentry
Former RT-11 Developer
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com |
| Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com |
| Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' |
| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ |
| Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler |
| (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg |
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
If memory serves, there are two classes of protective wrap which are
SUPPOSED to be used. One, the "primary" packaging layer, is supposed to be
moderately conductive so that it forms a protective layer around the entire
perpiphery of the card, thereby protecting it (the card) from spot chrges
transferred to it by handling. The other, the "secondary" packaging layer,
is intended to provide mechanical protection for the card and its primary
packaging. Common examples of the primary packaging include the black
conductive bags we commonly see used for this purpose. The pink-poly bags
and bubble wrap, etc, are anti-static but not conductive, and are
consequently qualified as "secondary" packaging, as they create no static
charge on their own, but don't do anything to dissipate it. Aluminum foil,
properly applied will qualify as primary packaging, though it's not ideal
due to its fragility. The fact that it will discharge batteries and other
things likely to be found on a board causes other concerns, but, PROPERLY
applied, it will serve as primary ESD-protective packaging.
Dick
-----Original Message-----
From: Zane H. Healy <healyzh(a)aracnet.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Wednesday, May 12, 1999 12:27 AM
Subject: Re: static bags
>>I've pretty well run out of my supply of PCB antistatic bags (appropriated
>>from inbound work shipments) for storing spare cards.
>>
>>Does anyone know of a cheap source for antistatic ziplocks for storing
cards
>>in? I have heard of just using aluminum foil, etc. Any words of wisdom
from
>>the list?
>>
>>Jay West
>
>Sadly our new servers are using different hard drive sleds, the ones we'd
>been using were perfect for dual and quad height DEC boards, and I'm about
>out also.
>
>I've a question along this line, what about newspaper? I've used that, but
>I've heard recently that's not a good idea.
>
>I've gotten boards wrapped in foil, not sure if they worked, don't remember
>if I tested them (scares the H*** out of me having them wrapped that way
>even though I hear it's safe)
>
> Zane
>| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator |
>| healyzh(a)aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast |
>| healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector |
>+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
>| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
>| and Zane's Computer Museum. |
>| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |
>>I've pretty well run out of my supply of PCB antistatic bags (appropriated
>>from inbound work shipments) for storing spare cards.
>>
>>Does anyone know of a cheap source for antistatic ziplocks for storing
cards
>>in? I have heard of just using aluminum foil, etc. Any words of wisdom
from
>>the list?
The best price I have found recently is from Contact East (800) 743-8181.
http://www.contacteast.com The following is per hundred of each size. 6X10
$7.70 10X12 $13.50 12X18 $24.80. These are the sizes I just recently
bought to cover dual, quad and hex width DEC boards. Granted they are only
1.6 mil but I only use them for end user sales. I have talked one of the
scrappers I work with into saving the ones he gets in for everything else.
Dan
Doug Spence said:
> Wow! I guess you really MUST be the senior software engineer to have
> a C64 dev station at work. :) (Not a comment on age, a comment on
> being allowed to have cool toys at work.)
I have my office full of some of my favorite toys, and a large
selection of classic computer documentation. It's a great stress
reliever.
> 25.5K doesn't seem too bad, but after reading the rest of your
> description and the sample output from your program, maybe it *isn't*
> good enough. The differences between the short and long pulses aren't
> very big. You're using 15 samples as your cutoff between short and
> long, and I see that 14, 15 and 16 appear. That's shaving it pretty
> close!
Like I said, I stopped at this point, but you'll notice that once you
read pass the two cycles that make up the sync bit, the rest of the
cycles in that byte consist of one large cycle and one small cycle.
If you compare the cycle lengths IN PAIRS then the different in
small and large cycles becomes more pronounced and you can forget
about the 15 samples definition.(One has to be smaller than the other)
I didn't find the header format reference I mentioned, I do know that
the header is read into the cassette buffer and I believe that make it
about 191 or 192 bytes long.
I also know that when the header is loaded into the cassette buffer in
the C64:
$033D - Low byte of start address
$033E - High byte of start address
$033F - Low byte of ending address
$0340 - High byte of ending address
$0341 - Start of the filename
Looking at the printout I sent, it looks to me that the header starts
with 9 to 1 countdown, then the header ID number. I (again) believe that
01 is the ID for a program header and 04 is the ID for a data file
header. Then you have the start address (01 08 = $0801) and the ending
address (23 08 = $0823). Followed by the filename.
--Doug
====================================================
Doug Coward dcoward(a)pressstart.com (work)
Sr. Software Eng. mranalog(a)home.com (home)
Press Start Inc. http://www.pressstart.com
Sunnyvale,CA
====================================================
