On May 25, 19:23, Tony Duell wrote:
> Subject: Re: Space, the next frontier
> > > Getting the right
> > > spare drive for one of those can really drive you insane.
> >
> > How do you think I got to be like this? :-)
>
> Probably in a similar, but not quite indentical way to me.... Not quite
> identical, because AFAIK you're not a workstation collector...
Not primarily -- I have the usual Apples, Beebs, PETs, Atom, ZX81, Sorcerer
-- and I've just found a Nascom-1 :-) -- and PDP-11s, but I also have two
SGI Indigos, an Indy, a VS3000, a couple of Arcs, a microVAX-II, a U-Micro
68000, a Sage-II, a DecMate. I'm not sure which of those count as
workstations, though :-)
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Dept. of Computer Science
University of York
<common-ish machines that _can_ do the formatting. 8" 'RX01' floppies can
<be formatted in most soft-sector 8" CP/M machines (and a PERQ will not
<only do the format, it'll even stick an 'RT11' directory on the disk).
Or if the cpm machine is running the RT11 package (a C program) it could
set a directory and read/write the disk as well! Still use that one here!
<You say 'some Rainbows'. I thought this was just a software
<consideration, and that the hardware of all 'bows was capable of
<formatting blank disks. Since the 'bow disk controller is just a WD179x
<chip (IIRC) on one of the micro's buses, it seems hard to figure out a
<way to stop it from formatting, although anything is possible.
The rainbow needed a formatter program to do it. It was generally
available. However DEC used the 1793 in a lot of systems (DECMATE,
PRO3xx, and a few other but hid it behind a 8051 microcontroller that
didn't have a format routine in the internal rom. Reason, the 1793 needs
to be fed every byte to write to the disk including gaps and marks.
DEC hardware that can format floppies:
Vt180 RX180 format.
PDT-11/150 RX01 format
Rainbows (RX50)
RQDXn (in either a Qbus MicroVAX or PDP-11) with software (rx50,
rx33, Rx23, rx24, and hard disks)
VS2000 (rx50, rx33, hard disks)
RX02 can reformat from RX01 (SSSD to SSDD and back). It just
cant do the initial format.
There maybe other but those are most common.
Of the non DEC hardware that can do 8" formatting
CCS2xxx systems (S100/cpm) (both 8 and 5.25)
Compupro S100 (various cpus) (both 8 and 5.25)
SDS " "
Teltek " "
Multibus with nonINTEL DD controllers (NEC BP2190 8", 5.25 or 3.5)
Xerox820
SB180 (8, 5.25, 3.5)
Ampro (8"SD, 5.25, 3.5)
and the list goes on.....
Allison
--- jeff.kaneko(a)juno.com wrote:
> Guys:
>
> I have to ship a rather distressed pdp-8a
> cardcage across the country. Do you think
> I should ship the cards separately, or
> the entire thing as a unit?
If I were receiving it, I'd prefer to have the cards bagged in static
bags and bubble-wrap and shipped seperately. Since that may compromise
the structural integrity of a "distressed" cage, see about finding a
cardboard box that fits somewhat snugly inside the empty cage, and pack
the cage in a box with at least 4" of space on all sides (to be filled with
peanuts and the like). You might consider shipping the PSU in its own box,
but that's not essential. It will reduce the inertia of the cage enough that
even distressed, an empty cage doesn't weigh enough to get badly damaged if
the container gets slammed around.
Remember this: if you wouldn't throw the box out of a car moving at 30mph,
don't ship the box - UPS has a conveyer belt that is 4' off the ground,
moving at 30mph. Stuff falls off every day.
-ethan
_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Near Red Bank, New Jersey, USA? Want a 3B1 with spare parts?
Contact dwfraser(a)lucent.com. (As seen in comp.sys.3b1.)
-Frank McConnell
------- Start of forwarded message -------
Date: Wed May 26 08:03:29 1999
From: Douglas Fraser <dwfraser(a)lucent.com>
Subject: Used (of course!) 3B1/7300 plus parts.
Topics:
Used (of course!) 3B1/7300 plus parts.
Re: Used (of course!) 3B1/7300 plus parts.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 10:46:57 -0400
From: Douglas Fraser <dwfraser(a)lucent.com>
Subject: Used (of course!) 3B1/7300 plus parts.
Message-ID: <37496661.FCE6F4DD(a)lucent.com>
Well, child #2 has arrived and my free time factor has
gone to ZERO! The one working 3B1 and all the spare parts
must go. I will not box and ship, you have to pick it
up. Red Bank, NJ. Send me email.
Details
One working 3B1, with memory expansion boards.
Boots and runs. 3.51 on floppys that haven't been
read in two years. Don't know if they still work.
This is an OLD system board. The ASICs are implemented
in medium scale logic on a mezzanine. It does work.
Spares. Enough to create two more entire systems except
for the disk drives. Currently disassembled.
Misc. documentation including some copies of schematics.
All power supplies, keyboards, mice, displays are good.
Must take ALL. I am not interested in selling parts in
dribs and drabs.
Doug
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 09:24:33 -0400
From: Douglas Fraser <dwfraser(a)lucent.com>
Subject: Re: Used (of course!) 3B1/7300 plus parts.
Message-ID: <374BF611.C6873238(a)lucent.com>
References: <37496661.FCE6F4DD(a)lucent.com>
Next week, this whole thing goes out in the trash.
It will have a little note attached to it that says
"Works! Boots UNIX! No password!"
And a box that says "Documentation! Spare Parts!"
Up until then, you can reserve it for yourself by
sending me email.
Bye.
------------------------------
End of forward718K3y Digest
***************************
------- End of forwarded message -------
Does anyone know where I might be able to buy some thin black foam filter
material, to replace the stuiff that was used on my Teral computers?
These systems have a large fan that draws air into the computer, and
the intake air goes through this very thin filter, in order to capture
large particles such as lint.
After 22+ years, that foam is nothing more than dust.
I would need something almost 5 inches wide, that i could then trim to
the proper shape.
-Lawrence LeMay
Hi,
I picked up several AIM 65 computers. I've noticed that some of them
have two 24 Pin ICs in the lower right corner and some have five. Anyone
know what the difference is? Also some have only two of the 19 pin ICs in
the top right corner and other have eitht ICs there. What's the difference
there?
Anyone know of a site where I can find out more about these and the
commands to operate them?
Joe
>The resulting three disks will boot up the system and bring up Backup 5.5,
>or thereabouts. But when I undertake to do a backup/image/verify to
>floppy, I get the error message:
>
>"%BACKUP-F-CLUSTER, unsuitable cluster factor for DUA2:"
>
>Since I formatted the disks using T 70 I would assume that they are to
>MicroVAX/VMS standard. How do I get around this roadblock?
You formatted the floppies, but you didn't initialize them. Try
appending a /INITIALIZE onto your backup command.
>Incidentally, Tim, I do not intend to really use floppies for backup. I
>have a TK50Z. But, if I can get a better understanding of how they may be
>used, they may prove useful in getting software into the little bugger.
If you intend to use them for purposes other than image backup, you
ought to try INITing them and MOUNTing them as regular (Files-11) volumes.
Doing a HELP INIT EXAMPLES or HELP MOUNT EXAMPLES will prove educational.
Or - very handy for interchange purposes with micros that have the
ability to read/write RT-11 RX50's and RX33's - you can use
EXCHANGE to read and write RT-11 volumes. Go into EXCHANGE and type
HELP for more info on this. There are also some freeware tools
for reading and writing MS-DOS floppies from VMS; check out
ftp://ftp.wku.edu/vms/fileserv/mgpcx.zip
if this sounds useful. There's loads of other VMS freeware available;
just check the comp.os.vms FAQ for starters.
--
Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com
Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/
7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917
Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927
Hello all.
This year at the VCF we're opening up the exhibition, and changing it into
a computer faire. Want to show off your prized vintage computer artifact?
What better way than to exhibit it at the Vintage Computer Festival!
What's more, your exhibit can win you a ribbon in any of 11 different
categories, and the best exhibit will walk away with the coveted Best of
Show award and some fabulous prizes!
What should you exhibit? Your best looking, most interesting, most
complete, most well researched vintage computer artifact. Read the full
rules below for information on what judging will entail. The ambition of
this competition is to advance the hobby of collecting, preserving and
documenting vintage computers, and you'll see that reflected in the
competition rules.
Have questions? Please e-mail me <sellam(a)vintage.org> or post your
question to the list if you think it is applicable to the general
audience.
You have more than four months to prepare your winning exhibit, so don't
procrastinate. Get going!
VCF 3.0 is being held October 2nd and 3rd at the Santa Clara Convention
Center in Santa Clara, California.
VCF 3.0 Computer Faire Rules
============================
1) Each entrant shall enter no more than 2 entries for one class and
no more than 4 entries combined in all classes for competiton.
Computers entered for display only are not eligible for awards
and their inclusion in the exhibit is at the discretion of the
organizer.
Each entrant shall pre-register their exhibit and pay a $10
registration fee due by September 17, 1999. Entrants failing
to submit their registration and fee will not be eligible to
participate in the Faire, however exceptions may be made for
individual circumstances.
2) Each competitor's entry shall be entered in only one of the
following classes:
a) Home-brew, kit, or educational computer - Any vintage
b) Manufactured microcomputer - Pre 1981
c) Manufactured microcomputer - Post 1981
d) Mini-computer or larger system - Any vintage
e) Other
3) In each class, Best of Class, 2nd of Class, and 3rd of Class prizes
will be awarded. If less than three entries are present in a
class, the awards are at the discretion of the judges.
4) Each competiton entry, regardless of it having received any other
award is eligible to compete for any of the following special
awards:
Best Presentation Awards
a) Best Presentation Category - Display
b) Best Presentation Category - Research
c) Best Presentation Category - Completeness
d) Best Presentation Category - Creative Integration with Contemporary
Technology
Best Preservation Awards
a) Best Preservation Category - Restoration
b) Best Preservation Category - Recreation
c) Best Preservation Category - Simulation
d) Best Preservation Category - Original Condition
e) Best Preservation Category - Obscurity
Best Technology Awards
a) Best Technology Category - Analog
b) Best Technology Category - Non-Electronic
People's Choice Award
5) Each competitor will be given a date and time at which a panel of
judges will examine the entry. The examination is limited to no
more than 10 minutes. The entrant or an authorized representative
must be present at the time given. If nobody is present, the
judges will notify the entrant of a substitute time at which they
will return. If nobody is present at that point in time, the
entry is disqualified.
6) Only class winners or special award winners are eligible for the
Best of Show award. Each winner will be given a new time to make
their computer available for a repeated inspection for the Best of
Show award.
7) The panel of judges will consist of three individuals. The judging
will take place as a joint activity between the the judges. Any
judging decision will have to have at least a two thirds majority.
8) Each computer will start judging by having a perfect score of 30
points, five points each in the following catagories. The judges
will then subtract points in each catagory according to their
judging guidelines of which examples are given below.
- Appearance and Condition
- Authenticity
- System Completeness
- Functionality
- Documentation
- Software
a) Appearance and Condition
The judges can deduct points for any flaw in appearance and
condition. Lack of functionality or non-original parts do not
influence the score in this catagory unless it changes the
appearance of the computer.
b) Originality and Authenticity
The judges can deduct points for any part of the computer that is
not original as built by the manufacturer, or as constructed at
assembly time for kits. Replacement parts must be indicated to
the judges by the competitor. New old stock parts will be
considered to be replacement parts with a lesser point
deduction. A reproduction can not receive full points in this
category. Any consumables do not have to be authentic. Any item
that has questionable authenticity or originalty needs to have
supporting documentation.
c) System Completeness
The judges can deduct points for any part of the computer that
is incomplete. A complete computer is one that includes the
peripherals that were originally used on the computer or typical
peripherals that would have been used with the computer if
applicable.
d) Functionality
The judges can deduct points for any lack of functionality of
the complete computer as presented. This includes any aspect of
hardware or software. Original malfunction of the computer does
not lead to point deduction. A non-operational main processor
will result in zero points in this category.
e) Documentation
The judges can deduct points for incomplete, missing, or poor
condition documentation. Any documentation that was originally
delivered with the computer or otherwise obtained is being
judged. Any documentation relating to the design, construction,
manufacture, or delivery of the computer can be included. Third
party documentation is acceptable if no original documentation
is known to exist. Third party documentation can be beneficial
if they go beyond the standard documentation of the computer.
Reprints or later editions of documentation will result in point
deduction. Documentation of research conducted pertinent to the
entry will be considered.
f) Software
The judges can deduct points for the lack of software for the
computer, if applicable. In order to score any points, the
essential software to operate the computer is required to be
functional. Any software that has been developed for the computer
either at the time of computer development or at any later point
will be considered, as will be supporting documentation. The
software does not have to be run from the original media.
Original media will be beneficial though and can be asked to be
demonstrated.
9) The judges will not operate the entry. The person exhibiting the
computer will be asked to start the computer, demonstrate the
functionality, the available software, and to show the
documentation. Any reasonable request by the judges to demonstrate
operation has to be fulfilled by the person showing the computer.
10) The judges will ask the person showing the computer to open or
disassemble the computer for inspection of major components within
reasonable limits.
11) If for any reason the person showing the entry can not fulfill a
request of a judge due to a malfunction or any lack of software,
documentation, or other, the entrant will be given an opportunity
to interrupt the inspection once and postpone completion to a
later point in time during the judging period.
12) At the end of the event at an announced place and time, the awards
will be given to the entrant or a representative. If the prize
recipient cannot receive the award in person, all shipping and
handling charges will have to be covered by the entrant. Should a
person not be present to claim the prize, the awards shall be held for
claim by the organizer for no later than November 1, 1999. After that
date the prize will be withheld and will not be re-awarded.
Any questions or comments? Please send them to sellam(a)vintage.org or post
them to the list if they are universally applicable.
I hope to see lots of people participate in this year's Computer Faire!!
Remember, this is your chance to show off that favorite part of your
computer collection to all your friends and colleagues.
Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out.
Coming this October 2-3: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0!
See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
[Last web site update: 05/20/99]
On May 25, 19:42, Paul Thompson wrote:
> Subject: Re: 68020 vs 68EC020
> OK, my curiousity is piqued.
>
> What is the HC in MC68HC000 chips? The one I have is on a DEC RF31
> disk drive controller.
HCMOS process; "completely pin and timing compatible with MC68000, with
1/10th the power dissipation" of the NMOS versions.
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Dept. of Computer Science
University of York
Is there anyone who knows anything about Canon Cats? Specifically, how to
repair them? Or, anyone who has a working one?
I got an e-mail from a writer in SoCal who has been using one for twelve
years to do all his writing. It was recently damaged in a brownout, and
he's "having a bad time of it without the use of my CAT." Most
importantly, he needs to get his data off the disks, but I gather he'd also
like to continue using it.
Any thoughts?
--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/
