Well, since it was in the rack and feeling lonely and neglected, I
fired up my 11/73 tonight; the first example of DEC stuff I ever
owned. It is not in a DEC chassis, actually it is only about 40
percent DEC. It is running RT11SJ V5.01. It has a full-height 5"
HD as DL: and one 8" floppy as DY: (RX02). It was used in a speech
pathology research lab and all that software is still on it, tho
I've no idea how to invoke it at this time. It has the usual
Fortran, Basic, and Cobol systems. I've used the Basic interpreter
to write some little programs just to play with it.
It also has an RSX runtime system on it, but it asks for a
user/password which of course I don't have. Anyone have any idea
how to defeat this?
I have the appropriate RT11 Orange Wall for this machine, but no
hardware docs at all.
I am looking for the following: The 11/73 Processor manual. An
RL11-type controller card so I can hook up an RL02 to it.
Information on how to determine/configure the port assignments.. I
would like to have a line printer device and also a modem (for
Kermitting) but it has 8 ports on two cards, one of which is the
console port I found by repeatedly booting the system and watching
port pins with a scope.
The model of the SLUs escapes me at the moment, and I'm too tired
to go pull the thing out from the rack and take the back off and get
the numbers. I just want to know how RT11 assigns and communicates
with it's ports.
Its possible it has an Ethernet card in it too... that would make
it fun to hook it up with the uVAX II and let them share peripherals.
Cheerz and Thanks
John
Where I live, my zip code is 15005, which is for Baden. I actually live
about 5-10 miles away from Baden, and just have a Baden address because
Economy (small) doesn't have a post office. The neighbor across the street
has a Sewickley zip code, and my neighbor next door has a Freedom zip code.
It all depended on when the house was built and when the person moved in.
Going by a zip code isn't a very accurate way to find people where I live
(although most places are probably more organized).
--
-Jason Willgruber
(roblwill(a)usaor.net)
ICQ#: 1730318
<http://members.tripod.com/general_1>
-----Original Message-----
From: Geoff Roberts <geoffrob(a)stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Wednesday, March 31, 1999 5:52 PM
Subject: Re: Collectors list
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk>
>To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
><classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
>Date: Thursday, 1 April 1999 9:14
>Subject: Re: Collectors list
>
>
>
>>> So, if you are willing to give your zip/postal code, in effect that is
>>> an almost exact location of, at the most, a few hundred buildings
>>> and often only a few dozen.
>
>Good Grief.
>
>5540 is my post code. But ours are not that specific.
>In a big city they usually narrow it down to a suburb or two, but 5540
>is the code for the entire city of Port Pirie. (15,000 people)
>Comes from being less crowded I guess...
>
>Geoff Roberts
>Computer Systems Manager
>Saint Mark's College
>Port Pirie, South Australia.
>Email: geoffrob(a)stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au
>ICQ #: 1970476
>Phone: 61-8-8633-8834
>Mobile: 61-411-623-978
>Fax: 61-8-8633-0104
>
>
>
>
I'm just about to consider firing up one of my old CP/M S-100 boxes just for
spite and to see if I can get it to run the way I want. It starts with
wanting the CPU board, and I'll probably have to try several, to run the 8
MHz Z-80H I still have lying about somewhere. Then I want to run the 8"
Shugart hard drive using an XCOMP HDC board set which is purported to work
better than the MSC board I used on my own station back about 20 years. If
I can get the CPU to run, and I believe I have fast enough static memories
to handle that, no wait states required, I think, then it might be
interesting to see what one can squeeze out of the old 8" winchester. I
know I can whack up a wire-wrapped version to work, and then I won't have to
worry about the bus timing at all, at least for starters, because a FDC/HCD
combination will easily fit on a board with all the necessary logic, RAM,
ROM, and I/O.
Dick
-----Original Message-----
From: Allison J Parent <allisonp(a)world.std.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Wednesday, March 31, 1999 9:12 PM
Subject: Re: Rebirth of IMSAI
>
><That was along time ago. Perhaps it was 56K rather than 48. All my CPM
><systems, and I had several at the time, used 64K, though that's a small
><difference nowadays.
>
>No, It's a result of knowing the machine and CPM and programming around it.
>The base distribution of CPM for that machine would not use memory above
>E800h due to the controller. It didn't meant it couldn't be there. If you
>didn't program around that the best you could do was 52k.
>
>All my other machines have 64k of ram or more. The practical aspect of it
>is that most apps 48k was plenty and only a few really wanted that little
>bit more.
>
>Oh the softsectro controller using the 765... The IO was also memory mapped
>into the FFF0->FFFFh segment of ram. that way I could use the more
flexible
>memory ops that were also faster and also the controller could be
>co-resident.
>
>Allison
>
Hi gang,
I found someone that has a HP9845-B for sale. There doesn't seem to be too
much info available on the web for this thing. Wondering how collectible
this machine is?
TIA,
Steve Robertson - <steverob(a)hotoffice.com>
Kindly peruse the imbedded comments below.
regards,
Dick
-----Original Message-----
From: Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner <spc(a)armigeron.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Wednesday, March 31, 1999 8:28 PM
Subject: Re: Kits vs ready-made (was RE: Rebirth of IMSAI)
>It was thus said that the Great Richard Erlacher once stated:
>>
>> >> You're certainly right about the cost of documentation. That's why
it's
>> >> hard to recommend LINUX and some of the rather excellent pieces of
software
>> >> work which have been done in conjunction with it. The documentation
is
>> >> generally quite poor, and always several generations out of date.
>> >
>> >Eh? I'd much rather do something obscure with Linux given a standard
>> >distribution and _any_ linux book (of _your_ choice if you like) than do
>> >something simpler with, say, Windows given _every_ published book and
SDK.
>
> And I'd rather do with something that works without problems.
>
>> ... but I've had VERY little trouble with '95.
>
> When I first ran '95, it was because a project I was working on required
>it (or a Solaris box, but we couldn't afford a true Sun, and Solaris for
the
>x86, which is also expensive, isn't that great). For the year I used the
>box I had no problems with it. Well, a few. Okay, it took too long to
>change the dial up networking, and swapping the mouse (bus for serial and
>back again several times) was an hour or so of frustration. And then there
>was the time I put the machine on the local network only to have it insist
>on dialing up. But other than that, it worked. I even got the Microsoft
>telnet client to behave (although that required a registry hack).
>
> It was only after a month of someone else using it (and installing a crap
>load of applications, mostly Microsoft ones) did it become totally
unsuable,
>to the point where I nearly lost some very important files because it
>refused to boot.
>
> I tried installing '95 six times from scratch (across two days) and
>failing miserably at it. Got fed up enough to install Linux on the thing
>(the project I needed '95 for was long finished) and never had a problem
>with the box after that.
>
> Then again, I've been using Linux regularly since '92 and remember the
>days of downloading 40 disk images ...
>
>> At the POP, there are three LINUX boxes running satisfactorily for over a
>> year, as terminal server, among other things, and one really can't
complain.
>> I just complained because of the documentation maze, which is certainly
in
>> ample evidence.
>
> Which is not to say I haven't had my share of problems with Linux. The
>first time I connected two Linux boxes via PPP took myself and another
>friend 16 hours to get working (with a few long distance calls to a friend
>who helped us imensely). And we were NOT computer illiterate people (I had
>been using Unix for four years at that point). The next time we got PPP
>working it only took four hours.
Yes, getting PPP to work on the terminal server for the ISDN lines (the
first one we did) was a real pain. Linux doesn't like having you go
directly into the system with out a stop at the shell, even though that's
MUCH more secure.
> Then recently was the IDE/SCSI fiasco (system with both SCSI and IDE
>drives, with the boot drive being SCSI. Upgrading the kernel in THAT
system
>is a nightmare let me tell you, lilo being braindead in that situation
(``No
>damn you! The SCSI disk! The SCSI disk! Why the @#$@#$@ did you put the
>Q#@#$ kernel on the IDE? DIE LILO SCUM!'')).
You must have been reading my mail!
>> Example: Simple tasks like installing LINUX on an ESDI drive larger than
>> what the BIOS supports are not supported by any written documents, though
>> the writing about other drive types (not SCSI) may shed light on it,
though
>> the doc's about EIDE are also conflicting. These are made hopelessly
>> complicated by the various often self-contradictory attempts at
describing
>> what's to be done. I finally gave up on the half-dozen or so conflicting
>> write-ups I had and worked the details out with a fellow in Germany who,
>> though his English was limited, as is my German-"computerese," managed to
>> convince me that it was really quite straightforward.
>
> I found this works (especially under RedHat). Make three partitions, the
>first physical one small, 5M is more than enough space. The second I
>usually make swap (typically twice the physical RAM, max swap space for a
>single partition is 128M, but you can have multiple swap partitions) and
the
>third the rest of the disk. Turn off DOS compatibility (if using Linux's
>version of fdisk. There might be an option under Disk Druid, but I don't
>use that). Mark the first partition as bootable.
That's about what I wound up doing. . .
> The first partition becomes `/boot' where the kernel resides, and that
>takes care of the problems of large disks not supported properly under the
>BIOS. The third partition becomes '/' and contains the rest of the file
>system. When you format the drives, select logical addressing (under the
>RedHat installation program, it says use this for SCSI, I use it for any
>type of drive system).
what I said before . . .
> Of course I've now branded myself as a Linux expert here 8-)
>
>> >And yes, I do consider source code to be possible documentation for a
>> >piece of software, just as I consider a schematic to be possible
>> >documentation for a piece of hardware.
>>
>> It's true that source code SHOULD be part of the documentation. In too
many
>> cases it's ALL the documentation, and though the code was modified, the
>> comments weren't kept in sync. That's where it's a real pain when they
>> leave out key words like NOT.
>
> I've worked at a company that discouraged comments in code because ``The
>code IS the documentation.'' And don't forget that programmers in general
>hate to document, you end up with crap like we have today (well, that and
>programmers can't program either, but that's a different rant ... )
>
> -spc (Programmer forced into sysadmin and hating every minute of it)
>
<That was along time ago. Perhaps it was 56K rather than 48. All my CPM
<systems, and I had several at the time, used 64K, though that's a small
<difference nowadays.
No, It's a result of knowing the machine and CPM and programming around it.
The base distribution of CPM for that machine would not use memory above
E800h due to the controller. It didn't meant it couldn't be there. If you
didn't program around that the best you could do was 52k.
All my other machines have 64k of ram or more. The practical aspect of it
is that most apps 48k was plenty and only a few really wanted that little
bit more.
Oh the softsectro controller using the 765... The IO was also memory mapped
into the FFF0->FFFFh segment of ram. that way I could use the more flexible
memory ops that were also faster and also the controller could be
co-resident.
Allison
<Well I'd probably stick the IC down to something, and use thicker wire
<(stander wire-wrap wire is quite good for this), but I really don't see
<the problem with doing this for experimental/prototype circuits, even
<ones that are going to be used. I've done it many times and it's never
<given any trouble.
This technique is called dead bug or ugly and is effective for RF work.
I've done entire protos using a peice of copper clad as a solderable
groundplane to "fly" things above and in a few cases the later PWB
production version didn't perform quite as well due to distributed
capacitances and inductances. However even dead bug still calls for
reasonably solid mechanical construction using other components or stiff
wire to secure things.
Allison
>They go from the 10 pin connectors on the frontpanel control board
>(KY11B) to either the spare 10 pin connectors on the FPU next to the top
>connector or to the 2 10 pin blocks of the connector on the CPU
>(control?) board that the FPU top connector goes onto (this will make
>sense if you're looking at the machine). Again I can't remember the
>twists, but try it until maintenance mode works, I guess.
I figured that's what they did... but I didn't want to simply plug them
in without knowing which way was correct, and which way *might* let some
magic smoke escape...
I found the 10-pin ribbon cables in some sort of paddle board which is
marked as an FP11-A extender board... it has male and female connectors
of the type used to connect the CPU and FPU, but at opposite ends of the
board. It *also* has two sets of fingers, one of which is *obviously*
wire as a grant card... what the heck is this thing, and how is it used?
BTW - I found an extra set of KD11-EA processor boards... so I
tested them in my machine today and they worked fine. I'm glad to know
that I have some spares for the machine...
Megan Gentry
Former RT-11 Developer
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com |
| Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com |
| Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' |
| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ |
| Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler |
| (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg |
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
Have a look at the imbedded comments below, please.
Dick
-----Original Message-----
From: Allison J Parent <allisonp(a)world.std.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Wednesday, March 31, 1999 4:50 PM
Subject: Re: Rebirth of IMSAI
><This would require a variable length or variable preset counter sourcing
th
><clock. The problem was knowing when it was going the generate an M1 cycle
>
>I used a shift register and an or gate.
>
and I used a counter and a gate. Today I'd use a part of a PAL, as you
probably would as well.
>
><counts. Either that or you'd have to look for the clock edge after the
><appearance of the M1 strobe and KNOW it wasn't part of the interrupt
><acknowledge. Neither was thrifty with logic, nor was it fun.
>
>M1 made it easy. the logic was if M1 then hod clock one cycle.
Yup, that's more or less what's needed.
>
><I had one friend whose NorthStar convinced me every time I saw it, that I
><didn't want one. We were using CP/M, and you really didn't have even one
><byte to spare in your measly 64K. His NorthStar only had 48K of memory
><space, for some reason. Maybe it was because they'd mapped that region fo
>
>Funny mine has 56k to the base of BDOS. The trick is CCP and BDOS resides
>below the controller at E800h and the BIOS in the 4K at F000h. I also
>have a PROM burnt for F800 (trivial). The first banking scheme I did had
>mappable 4k pages in the F000h space. Very nice really. Later I went
>softsector using a uPD765 (I worked for NEC sooo...) and pulled the hard
>sector controller.
That was along time ago. Perhaps it was 56K rather than 48. All my CPM
systems, and I had several at the time, used 64K, though that's a small
difference nowadays.
>Allison
>
