test-drb December 1999

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

186 participants
742 discussions

Has anyone found the best way to preserve paper tape software?

by dylanb＠sympatico.ca

-----Original Message----- From: Allison J Parent <allisonp(a)world.std.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Wednesday, December 29, 1999 10:34 PM Subject: Re: Has anyone found the best way to preserve paper tape software? <snip> > >An aside, in the PDP-11 realm the Qbus 11s like the 11/23 series are by I really like "plug and play" Qbus systems but I don't think there is a paper tape interface nor a DECTape one? >far the easiest to get configured and going. the Unibus machines require >a much higher load of knowledge of small bits like what bus level jumpers >must be where and all. > Not too much more.. I have been restoring them for a long time.. the older ones are a bit of a pain as they had so many revisions of the same CPU. I was hoping to use 34s as they are they quickest to fix,rarely die, worth little before and after being abused, and quite dependable. >The beauty if that a 11/73 series will run most PDP-11 unix and PUPS has >the license for any version at $100 and also an archive of PDP-11 versions >of unix. > I would really like to run Unix on a PDP-11 (hopefully a 45 with all core and FPU) but have never found the software. ><versions from the early-mid-80's onward. (i.e. RSTS/E V7 and on, RT-11 V4 ><and forward with some earlier V3 And V2 distributions, RSX-11M 3.0 forward ><and RSX-11M+ V2.0 and forward, with many of the layered product kits ><thrown in for good measure.) > >I do have RT-11 V3 and V4 on TU58 still. I should dig them out and see if >they can still be read (I have three solid TU58s). > >Allison > > >

24 years, 12 months

Has anyone found the best way to preserve paper tape software?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<DECNET is fine, if the machine's you're putting together support it nicely <Don't discount the effort it takes to get a PDP-11 properly configured and <the peripherals running - sometimes I'm sure you'll get lucky and it'll <just work when you plug it in, but when stuff is coming in "unknown" or <"not used for many years" condition, it can take time to get everything <going happily. An aside, in the PDP-11 realm the Qbus 11s like the 11/23 series are by far the easiest to get configured and going. the Unibus machines require a much higher load of knowledge of small bits like what bus level jumpers must be where and all. The beauty if that a 11/73 series will run most PDP-11 unix and PUPS has the license for any version at $100 and also an archive of PDP-11 versions of unix. <versions from the early-mid-80's onward. (i.e. RSTS/E V7 and on, RT-11 V4 <and forward with some earlier V3 And V2 distributions, RSX-11M 3.0 forward <and RSX-11M+ V2.0 and forward, with many of the layered product kits <thrown in for good measure.) I do have RT-11 V3 and V4 on TU58 still. I should dig them out and see if they can still be read (I have three solid TU58s). Allison

24 years, 12 months

Has anyone found the best way to preserve paper tape software?

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>>>I would really like to run Unix on a PDP-11 (hopefully a 45 with all core >>>and FPU) but have never found the software. >> >>You *aren't* working in a vacuum, you know :-). For the past several > >Until I got on this list that is what it felt like. Most people don't know >about this list and only have access to the info available on the newsgroups >or peoples pages which tends to be incomplete. Since I work hard to let people know about the archives of PDP-11 software already out there on the net and on CD-ROM, I'd be interested in knowing where (exactly!) you looked and how you came to the conclusion that there was a vacuum. >>years, Bob Supnik's emulators have come with Unix V5 through V7 >>binary distributions (see ftp://ftp.digital.com/pub/DEC/sim/ ), >I have been told that the software there *only* runs on the simulator. Nope, it'll run on the real deal too. You have to be a bit careful: most of the old Unices there think they're running on a Unibus machine, so if you run them on a Q-bus machine some funny things will happen if you go above 256K due to the lack of a Unibus map. (This applies to the simulator, too, since it emulates a 11/53!) > Will >the software on the site listed above run on real hardware or was it >modified to only run on the simulators? I was told by a list member that the >RT11 there will not run on real hardware. I think you're confusing "it can't" with "you aren't supposed to". The hobbyist license that Supnik worked out only allows you to run the software under his (or another DEC) emulator. There's talk about a very much more permissive license deal coming up, but the talk is - so far - just talk, and it could get nixed by the lawyers simply taking inaction on it. If and when it does turn solid, you can bet that this mailing list will be one of the first places you hear about it. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

24 years, 12 months

Has anyone found the best way to preserve paper tape software?

by dylanb＠sympatico.ca

-----Original Message----- From: CLASSICCMP(a)trailing-edge.com <CLASSICCMP(a)trailing-edge.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Thursday, December 30, 1999 8:24 AM Subject: Re: Has anyone found the best way to preserve paper tape software? >>I really like "plug and play" Qbus systems but I don't think there is a >>paper tape interface nor a DECTape one? > >There certainly are paper tape interfaces - just about any serial card will >do for that. If you want 20mA and reader control, a good choice is the DLV11-F >or the plain old DLV11. > I was hoping to use a PC05. Guess I will find a PR/S01 on the next trip... >>>The beauty if that a 11/73 series will run most PDP-11 unix and PUPS has >>>the license for any version at $100 and also an archive of PDP-11 versions >>>of unix. > >>I would really like to run Unix on a PDP-11 (hopefully a 45 with all core >>and FPU) but have never found the software. > >You *aren't* working in a vacuum, you know :-). For the past several Until I got on this list that is what it felt like. Most people don't know about this list and only have access to the info available on the newsgroups or peoples pages which tends to be incomplete. >years, Bob Supnik's emulators have come with Unix V5 through V7 >binary distributions (see ftp://ftp.digital.com/pub/DEC/sim/ ), I have been told that the software there *only* runs on the simulator. Will the software on the site listed above run on real hardware or was it modified to only run on the simulators? I was told by a list member that the RT11 there will not run on real hardware. >and Warren Toomey has an excellent archive available as well as >easy terms for the Unix source license you'll need to access it >(see http://minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au/ and click on "PUPS". Note >that Adfa is offline for the summer holidays - I think they're >back up on Jan 3.) > >-- > Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com > Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ > 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 > Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927 >

24 years, 12 months

PDP software archives was: Re: Has anyone found the best way to preserve paper tape software?

by dylanb＠sympatico.ca

<snip> >Since I work hard to let people know about the archives of PDP-11 software >already out there on the net and on CD-ROM, I'd be interested in knowing >where (exactly!) you looked and how you came to the conclusion that there >was a vacuum. > I'll post a message about that whole topic tomorrow. Quite a few people I know working with this equipment have never heard of this message list nor found the OS images on the internet. To go one step further, old DEC (now compaq) told me outright "We thought you were a hoax. Who in the world would want this old junk" - they were talking about PDP1,PDP-8,and PDP-11 hardware and software.. talking about the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing.... :-) >>>years, Bob Supnik's emulators have come with Unix V5 through V7 >>>binary distributions (see ftp://ftp.digital.com/pub/DEC/sim/ ), > >>I have been told that the software there *only* runs on the simulator. > >Nope, it'll run on the real deal too. You have to be a bit careful: Again, I take it these images are not "distribution sets". I a hoping to post all the distribution sets of the various PDP-8/11 OS soon (sysgen stuff). Really need that for old hardware. For years I needed drivers or pieces of RT11 only to find numerous sites with "RT11 programs, DECUS , etc.." but not the real install media. I only ever got all this stuff from purchasing large systems from factories.. Now it's easier.. I am getting it all from the source. >most of the old Unices there think they're running on a Unibus >machine, so if you run them on a Q-bus machine some funny things >will happen if you go above 256K due to the lack of a Unibus map. >(This applies to the simulator, too, since it emulates a 11/53!) > >> Will >>the software on the site listed above run on real hardware or was it >>modified to only run on the simulators? I was told by a list member that the >>RT11 there will not run on real hardware. > >I think you're confusing "it can't" with "you aren't supposed to". I was actually told "can't". It would not run on QBUS stuff. Probably an error, no idea. >The hobbyist license that Supnik worked out only allows you to run the >software under his (or another DEC) emulator. There's talk about a >very much more permissive license deal coming up, but the talk is - >so far - just talk, and it could get nixed by the lawyers simply taking >inaction on it. If and when it does turn solid, you can bet that this >mailing list will be one of the first places you hear about it. > One would hope.... john http://www.pdp8.com/

24 years, 12 months

Hyperion Passport, Apricot, Convergent Technologies workSlate,

by Maddog1331＠aol.com

To be honest, I cant get to it at the moment lol...I have a ton of stuff I just got in, the Apricot among it. As near as I can recall, it was basically rectangular shaped with 2 disk drives on the front, the front being one of the narrow ends of the rectangle. I am really going to tear into this stuff tomorrow or Friday! I still havent got all of it to the house :-) I believe I can make quite a few decent systems out of all this stuff! And hey, to everyone who answered me, thank you so much! All this info is coming in really handy! Mark

24 years, 12 months

Question for you 'big iron' collectors

by dylanb＠sympatico.ca

>-----Original Message----- >From: Paul Braun <nerdware(a)laidbak.com> >To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> >Date: Thursday, December 30, 1999 8:24 AM >Subject: Question for you 'big iron' collectors > >I've been following the list for about a year and a half now and I'm >curious -- you guys (both genders) that have the room and the >know-how to run the big stuff -- what do you do with them? I guess >I'm not that familiar with non-business apps for minis and I'm just >curious what someone using a PDP at home would do with it? > >Do you just write code for the sheer challenge of writing code? >Have you written real-world apps? Is it just nostalgia? Or do you >keep them running purely for historical reasons and don't have any >practical day-to-day use for them? Quite a few large companies still run the old stuff. Ontario Hydro for one still runs many PDP-8s and still buys RK05 heads. In some cases it is cheaper to run the old stuff than to get new hardware approved for use. I had a really weird contract in '92-93 that required a cpu to monitor and run quite a few sensors in a very hostile environment (we are talking sodium cyanide and sulfuric acid in the same sealed room -- HCN byproducts - yuck) for an experiment. A PC would last a day or two with such gases so I concluded it would be cheaper to wheel in a PDP11/34 with a bunch of A/D and DR11-Cs in it. We did so and the 11/34s lasted about a week and a half before the chemicals ate away enough of a PCB trace to cause the CPU/RK05 to fail. Went through 3 of them in a couple of months and the experiment succeeded. These old minis can take a lot of abuse... and they are great for real-time data acquisition. For the most part now it is just collecting..... john PDP-8 and other rare mini computers http://www.pdp8.com

24 years, 12 months

font used for pdp11 logo?

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Dec 30, 4:10, Bill Bradford wrote: > Anybody know the name of the font used for the "pdp11" logo (as seen > at the top of www.pdp11.org)? I'd love to be able to do some other stuff > with the same "look", but doing it by hand in a graphics program is doing > it the hard way... It's not all the same font (unless someone made one up specially). The letters "pdp" are a tweaked version of Futura (ither Medium or Book, I can't remember which). BTW, the "11" doesn't look the same as on any of my PDP11 docs; normally, they're Helvetica Bold, but in the logo at the top of http://www.pdp11.org/, they're done in what appears to be a slightly-modified Futura. The "/34" or equivalent that you see in particular model numbers is normally also Helvetica, but stretched. I could give you a (scalable) PostScript copy of the "pdp11/34" logo if that would help... -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

24 years, 12 months

font used for pdp11 logo?

by mrbill＠mrbill.net

Anybody know the name of the font used for the "pdp11" logo (as seen at the top of www.pdp11.org)? I'd love to be able to do some other stuff with the same "look", but doing it by hand in a graphics program is doing it the hard way... bill -- +-----------------------+----------------------+----------------------+ |Bill Bradford | mrbill(a)pdp11.org | mrbill(a)mrbill.net | |http://www.sunhelp.org | http://www.pdp11.org | http://www.mrbill.net| +-----------------------+----------------------+----------------------+

24 years, 12 months

A good bit..

by wilson＠dbit.dbit.com

RPI had the usual variations to these gag opcode lists floating around too. I don't know where I put my hardcopy, but the ones that stick in my mind are: ECB Eject chad box EDI Eject disk immediate HCF Halt and Catch Fire (this was already posted here, but I liked the fact that the RPI list emphasized the fact that it requires privilege) I wish I knew where that printout was (IIRC the file was named ACM.:WORDS and was cobbled together from various scraps, probably mostly from the outside world), there was a lot of other nice stuff, of interest only to "power" nerds. John Wilson D Bit

24 years, 12 months

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test-drb December 1999