I have two systems that I have finished restoring that I would consider for
trade for either an older PDP 8 or some negibus peripherals.
Both CPUs are running and very happy.
The PDP 11/05 has 16K core memory (2X H214) and has a KW11-P (real time
clock) in it.It runs well. I really like 11/05's!!! This unit comes with a
copy of the engineering docs, as well as the 11/05 computer manual (theory).
The PDP 11/45 (runs, yes... really). I restored this CPU back in '86. I am
just moving the PDP 11/45 CPU and console serial port. It comes with one
supply and boots RT-11V5 (so it has been well tested) . This CPU is FAST
compared to a 34. You have to run your own BA11 memory box... I might be
convinced to part with some MOS memory and backplane for the right deal.
This PDP 11/45 was really a pain to restore as I had no documents on it and
spent the better part of two days scoping the inital problems. I have seen
engineering docs go on EBay so finding them is not a problem anymore.
Cash is always welcome.
If a deal can't be struck then I'll be dropping these beasts on EBay.
I am trimming my collection so these two have to go.
P.S. I picked up a Nova 2 yesterday with Diablo drives, 6 boxes of
documentation, 5 big boxes of paper (RDOS, fortran, algol, basic, etc...),
kennedy tape drive, graphics generator, and of course a "Ken-Net" box to
network it to a PDP. I think I have every paper tape/document ever made for
this system.
PDP - 8/S - I picked up the rest of the documents on it including - PC0 tape
unit, PT08, floating point, the original "Flip Chip modules manual - rev. 1
, '65" and "Flip Chip Modules Seminar" as put on by DEC in 1965. The system
is running everything and is very happy.
Reading about how the Flip Chips were made was absolutely amazing.... (many
pictures).
john
That's it Tony, and yes... I'm serious. They connected the ASR-33 across an
inverter and shorted it out when the relay transmits. The R107 is RTL (with
a real transistor) so it can't damage it.
I made the change and...... the PDP 8/s is now running DECUS tic tac
toe!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I got the docs finally on the PT08 and found a -3V reference supply was in
the wrong slot... That would account for the problem I had initially.
Otherwise the entire system is now happy.
BTW: I also picked up the ASR 33 schematics and the "Teletype Service
Manual - ASR 33" as well.
Thanks for the help.
john
-----Original Message-----
From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Saturday, October 16, 1999 2:33 PM
Subject: Re: Urgent Current Loop Question - ASR 33 / PT08
>>
>> Before I attempt to figure this one out I would like to know if anyone
else
>> can help me.
>
>I know the ASR33 pretty well, but I've never seen an 8/s. But maybe I can
>help. I'm going to assume you have the sort of ASR33 that's normally used
>with computers -- that's to say one with a current loop interface.
>There's s 3 position knob on the front of the machine (line/off/local)
>and no other controls on the 'call control unit' (electronics module).
>
>>
>> I hooked up an ASR-33 (non DEC) to my PDP-8/s. I ran a maindec program
and
>> the PDP could talk to the teletype no problem, never an error.
>>
>> After spending 4 1/2 hours cleaning up bad solder joints on the receiver
I
>> got it up and running.... *kind of*
>>
>> The problem is this: The ASR-33 is interfaced to the PDP currently by
tying
>> one receive line to the input of a R107 (transistor inverter) and the
other
>> receiver line to the output of the same inverter. Then, the signal is
>> *conditioned* (inverted) a few times before it is passed onto shift
>> registers,,, etc..
>
>Are you sure this is right. It sounds crazy to me (and now I'll get a
>pile of replies pointing out how DEC were being clever here)...
>
>The ASR33 transmit loop is electrically a switch. Actually it's a complex
>array of switches. but in the end, it either shorts the 2 Tx terminals or
>opens them. There is no voltage on either terminal (in a 'stock ASR33')
>from the ASR33 electronics. There are no other components involved.
>
>Connecting a switch between the input and output of an inverter is not
>normally a good way to get a clean logic signal ;-)
>
>The normal circuit (used in all sorts of machines) is to connect one of
>the tty Tx wires to one supply rail, possibly through a small resistor
>to limit the current in the event of a short somewhere). The other tty Tx
>wire to the other supply rail through a (larger) resistor. And then to
>monitor the voltage at the 'top' of that resistor, say by connecting it
>to the input of a logic gate.
>
>>
>> If I hook up the teletype the WAY the circuit exists now I get a 0-1V
data
>> signal (notice positive) out of the first inverter which of course is
>> totally incompatible with the others and the signal never passes through
>> beyond the first inverter.
>>
>> If I disconnect the FIRST inverter from the second one and LEAVE the one
>> receive line in the input of the first inverter ("floating") and hook up
the
>> SECOND receive line to the input of the now *disconnected* second
inverter I
>> get data. Most of the time good, but some bad characters get through.
>>
>> This is obviously not a working current loop solution.
>>
>> If the teletype is passive should I just connect the receive line on the
>> input of the first inverter to ground or -3V???
>
>Well, I could understand connecting the tty Tx loop between the input of
>one inverter and the output of another one, especially if the input of
>the latter was tied to a known logic level (so the output is just a
>constant voltage source, etc). This makes an assumption about how
>floating inputs behave, which may be OK on transistorised logic like this.
>
>You are _sure_ that you've connected to the right pins on the R107
>module, and that in fact that's the right module to be using?
>
>> #1) As I don't have docs nearby on the ASR-33 and have never had a VERY
>> simple interface like this CAN I short the one receive line to ground
or -3
>> volts????
>
>Sure. Just make sure the TTY contacts don't have to carry high currents
>(like don't connect the loop across the PSU) unless you like repairing
>burnt/melted switches...
>
>>
>> I just want to make sure the ASR 33 does not have any active part that
will
>> eat my PT08 for breakfast.
>
>Not that I know of...
>
>-tony
>
Anyone want a WWII navy radio reciever? 70 pounds of iron, tubes, and
vernier tuning. Shortwave bands.
I'm not shipping it, and i'm getting real serious about tossing it out.
SO, you need to be in Minneapolis, or coming by this area reasonably soon.
Don't expect it to work, of course.
-Lawrence LeMay
In einer eMail vom 16.10.99 20:56:37 MEZ, schreiben Sie:
<<
Gonna try to take a RL02 as carry-on luggage? :-).
The above comment was only half-joking - I once took a full 10.5" high
PDP-11/44 on an international flight. The power supply (the heavy part!)
was removed and carried on, so that the main chassis (now just the
steel frame and backplanes) weighed about 45 pounds and could fly without
any checked-luggage-over-weight-allowance charges.
I was lucky that day - they didn't weigh carry-ons (they often do in
Europe now, and I think the limit is 5 or 7.5 kgs!)
>>
I fly a lot, and my hand luggage _NEVER_ has been weighted. However,
I would not try to do that anyway (too lazy for lifting large weights when
travelling), but there are many very good freight services in the US, a simple
reference to the yellow pages will always allow me to take care of
shipping within less than a day. It is simply so very much easier to find
things in the US than in Europe, that shipping costs are outweighted by that.
If you get together something on the order of at least 500 kg (a pallete
full, say)
I find that quite reasonable.
John G. Zabolitzky
--- Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> > One of the other interesting items are a M7260/M7251 pair...
For the record, the above number is a typo... it should be M7260/M7261 pair.
> You need the 11/05 (or 11/10 -- they're the same) backplane and
> frontpanel for these.
I might have a 5.25" 11/05 box at the back of the pile. I probably pulled
the cards to keep them in a better environment.
> > Finally, we come to an RK11D board set...
>
> IIRC 3 of the 4 cards in that box are the same as the ones for the
> RK11-D. The bus control is different (I think).
Makes sense.
> Oh, RK11-Cs are fun to fix (for suitable values of 'fun'). I learnt about
> hard disk controllers, Unibus DMA cycles, etc while tracking down a dead
> chip in mine.
I have an ace up my sleeve - I can test basic M-series modules out of
circuit with a chip tester and a harness I built from a test clip and some
ribbon cable. I can clamp the test clip on each chip in turn for cards
like the M216 or M111 etc. Takes second. I did build a FLIP-CHIP tester
for the VIC-20 (the bare boards were available at RatShack), but I never
wrote the software. I wanted to make a table-driven thing with graphical
display of what faulty chips were found, but I never wrote a meta-language
to decribe each signal, in and out, to be able to succinctly list off enough
info to test a few dozen types of boards.
> Having the printset is _essential_, though!
Almost always the case.
> I have prints for the RK11-C and RK11-D, and the PDP11/05. I don't think
> I have the RKV11-D set anywhere, but it can't be that hard to figure out.
Are these available scanned anywhere? Are you looking for any docs that
we might be able to swap bits on? I don't relish paying to ship slices of
dead trees across the pond.
-ethan
=====
Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February.
Please send all replies to
erd(a)iname.com
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com
< I think our California members should store their more precious old
<computers on the east side of the fault line in case the rest of Californi
<should someday slide off into the Pacific.
Or is that the west side case it becomes an island? ;)
Upon the date 05:14 PM 10/16/99 -0700, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) said something
like:
>> Or is that the west side case it becomes an island? ;)
>
>My understanding of the tectonic plate movement is that everything east of
>the Hayward/Roger's Creek fault will slide into the Atlantic.
Oh thanks Fred :-/ Now I'll have to go out and buy flood insurance :(
--Chris (in Western NY State)
-- --
Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian
Jamestown, NY USA cfandt(a)netsync.net
Member of Antique Wireless Association
URL: http://www.antiquewireless.org/
I am supposed to go a look at a very old PDP-11/04 this
week and would appreciate some help as to how the front
panel is set up. Mainly, I want to be able to look at the
program that was loaded using hardware ODT, that is
just examine the program and confirm that it is the same
as a listing that I will have on a laptop which I will bring along.
I don't have to verify all 20 KBytes of the program, just
look at it ever 1000 octal bytes to verify that it is the same
at about 20 locations.
I doubt if this information makes any difference, but I
have been told it operates with paper tape, has core
memory and an ASR-33 as the console device. Also,
the program is stand alone (obviously since it has no
disk drives).
Mainly, I just want to press the HALT switch or button.
Then I want to look at memory via hardware ODT, then
restart the system without changing anything at all.
Is this possible? I know how to do it on an 11/73. And
I used to be able to do in on an 11/34.
Sincerely yours,
Jerome Fine
>After several years of "emergency" storage, I am relocating a large pile of
>mostly DEC stuff from a friend's basement. I am finding stuff that I have
>been looking for and finding stuff I forgot I had.
Hey, I know what that feels like. Closest thing I can remember to
Christmas morning as a little kid :-).
>One of the other interesting items are a M7260/M7251 pair, one marked
>"datapath", one marked "11/05 control". These are clearly the CPU for an
>11/05, but will they go into an 11/04 or short (not BA-11) 11/34 chassis
>for testing?
If I'm not mistaken, the chassis will be OK, but you'll need an 11/05
backplane and front panel.
>Finally, we come to an RK11D board set... M7254 through M7257. What else is
>needed to make a working controller? A custom backplane?
Yep, the backplane you want will have a sticker saying "RK11-D" on it.
> Paddle cards?
Standard Unibus cable connectors will do fine.
--
Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com
Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/
7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917
Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927
>I know myself that I've not found _all_ of the PDP-11 and uVAX resources.
>I've noticed some webpages, for example, never come up in any search engine
>because the owner hasn't indexed their page properly or at all. I can
>search till I'm blue in the face and miss stuff.
Absolutely true. I already complained about the freeware archives that
I maintain dropping out of several prominent search engines where they
used to be prominently mentioned.
The pages (and pages referring to these pages) have been submitted to
the search engines many times since they disappeared, but have never
come back.
Here's where I'm sure someone can help me. If anyone could look at,
for example, my DECUS freeware index at
http://metalab.unc.edu/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/decus/
and particularly suggest which META tags I might have to add again to
make this page (and the pages that it refers to) show up in search
engines, I'd greatly appreciate it! Back when these pages were
indexed by search engines, they'd get hundreds of search hits a day.
But now they never ever turn up, and I don't know why. I mean, the
pages still have the same information they always did, and it's not
like anyone else has a similar index on the web that replaces this
one.
Maybe I'm oversimplifying things, but it seemed to me that a couple of
years ago the search engines did a very good job of finding a page
based on content. For example, if I knew a key phrase that occured
somewhere on a page, I could do an Altavista search for that phrase
(in quotes) and get a hit every single time. This doesn't seem to
work the same way anymore. Is it because search engines no longer
index based on content? If they aren't based on content, then what
the heck are they based on?
And I've also been warned that adding too many META tags will actually
cause some search engines to reject a page (or even an entire site)
for indexing, as they don't want folks essentially using search
engines as a form of Spam.
--
Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com
Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/
7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917
Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927
