test-drb January 1999

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

189 participants
897 discussions

Memory. (was: Reliability of wrong media)

by mbg＠world.std.com

"Buck Savage" <hhacker(a)gte.net> wrote: >>Heck - my home PC has 128 Mb... which shows up through the >>POST as 130nnn (I forget the last three digits). > >128 * 1024 =3D 131072 > >Hence, if your display is > >131072K > >then your display is accurate. And it isn't what is displayed, though it is what I expected... >K means 1024, and that is universally accepted by all programmers! It >is we, the programmers of the world, who define the value of such >symbols, and = I say, it is also our prerogrative if ensure that their >use by lay persons is = accurate. This is not any different than du Pont >protecting the meaning of the = name teflon, nor Xerox the meaning of the >name Xerox. > >If this is not the display, then perhaps it is > >(128 * 1024) - (1024 - 640) =3D 130688 This looks more like it, and in fact is what I realized last night as I was writing a reply on this topic... so I did finally figure it out... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

25 years, 11 months

BNF pickiness. (was Re: Reiability of wrong media, etc.)

by yakowenk＠cs.unc.edu

] ... ] There's a reason why I personally rarely reduce abbreviations all ] the way to two characters. I usually use {K|M|G}b{y|i}t[e][s]. If ] I leave it at just {K|M|G}, assume bytes. When you use "Kbyts", "Kbite", or "KBites", what does it mean? :-) How about {K|M|G}b{yte|it}[s]? Or even {K|M|G}{byte|bit}[s], which is less efficient, but clearer to humans? Any good compiler would optimize it to the former anyway. Cheers, Bill. ] -- ] Ward Griffiths ] "the timid die just like the daring; and if you don't take the plunge then ] you'll just take the fall" Michael Longcor

25 years, 11 months

Reiability of wrong media (was: is out of 5-1/4" diskettes

by mbg＠world.std.com

Following up to my own post... I think the problem with '1.44 Mb' is that IBM chose to refer to the exact number of bytes without using the power-of-two term properly. For example... on pdp-11s, the virtual address space is always referred to as 64 Kb... but the actual max (byte) address is 65535. If we were to follow what it appears IBM did, we would have been referring to 65.5 Kb. I agree that it is annoying that it isn't consistent. Heck - my home PC has 128 Mb... which shows up through the POST as 130nnn (I forget the last three digits). Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

25 years, 11 months

Memory. (was: Reliability of wrong media)

by hhacker＠gte.net

>Heck - my home PC has 128 Mb... which shows up through the >POST as 130nnn (I forget the last three digits). 128 * 1024 = 131072 Hence, if your display is 131072K then your display is accurate. K means 1024, and that is universally accepted by all programmers! It is we, the programmers of the world, who define the value of such symbols, and I say, it is also our prerogrative if ensure that their use by lay persons is accurate. This is not any different than du Pont protecting the meaning of the name teflon, nor Xerox the meaning of the name Xerox. If this is not the display, then perhaps it is (128 * 1024) - (1024 - 640) = 130688 and this value would be accurate, in the sense that the region of memory between 640K and 1M is typically excluded from the sum of all memory available within a PC environment because is is mapped out so that the I/O devices may be memory mapped. William R. Buckley

25 years, 11 months

PC's Limited

by cmcmanis＠freegate.com

I want one of those LCD panels! Where can I find one? At 01:01 AM 1/22/99 -0600, Dave Wollman wrote: >Have you seen the LCD panels for Linux boxes?

25 years, 11 months

Unix for 8080/Z80? [Re: WooHoo!! PC/XT Unix anyone?]

by fmc＠reanimators.org

Gary Oliver <go(a)ao.com> wrote: > Damn. I'm home and can't look it up... But I believe I recall something > called (IIRC) "Micronix" (or something similar) that ran on a Godbout > or Morrow system. I have some hardware documentation for the system > that ran it - got it in anticipation of getting one of the S-100 CPU > boards. Yep. It was a Morrow thing and I think it ran on the Decision 1 system (not the Micro Decision which is completely different). I ran into someone once who said he had experience of running Micronix and told me I did *not* want to try running it. Heh. > The system had a memory paging system on top of a Z-80 and included > some fairly sophisticated protection (both memory and I/O) that would > have permitted a Unix-like system to operate securely. Likewise my docs and disks (and hardware) are buried in storage, but >from what I remember this is all on the Z80 card and described well enough to code around in its manual. It divides the Z80's 64KB address space and the IEEE-696 16MB address space into 4KB pages, so that any page in the Z80 address space can be mapped to any page in the -696 space, and it keeps 16 page tables (called "tasks") in RAM on the Z80 card. Task 0 is special (the "supervisor") in that one of its pages is the page table RAM. The page table entries have protection bits that mark a page for various sorts of access, and if the Z80 tried to access memory in a way that wasn't allowed, the card would force an interrupt in task 0's context so that task 0 could figure out what to do (which could mean something like increasing the failing task's memory allocation and retrying the operation). I think the CPU card for the Decision 1 is the Morrow MPZ80, but can't remember if I have the part name right or not. It's a fancy IEEE-696 Z80 card. If anyone has clues on the proper system configuration for Micronix, I'm interested -- it's been a while, but I did try to get it to boot once upon a time without much success. -Frank McConnell

25 years, 11 months

Unix for 8080/Z80? [Re: WooHoo!! PC/XT Unix anyone?]

by kurtkilg＠geocities.com

On Sat, 23 Jan 1999, Allison J Parent wrote: > Unix didn't always have the idea of virtual memory. See Minix for an > example of that also V4 and maybe V5 unix didn't either. I would expect that the original PDP7 that ran UNIX didn't have VM...

25 years, 11 months

FYI: MEI/Microcenter is out of 5-1/4" diskettes

by edick＠idcomm.com

I have quite a number of experienced 8" diskettes I haven't discarded yet, and a few (30-40) of the 5-1/4 types (unused) which I'd be happy to send you, if you don't mind picking up the freight. Some of those 8" diskettes even have useful stuff on them. I once "inherited" a friend's collection of CP/M software but never got around to useing it for anything, since it was in some wierd format I couldn't read at the time. Dick ---------- > From: Mark <mark_k(a)iname.com> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Re: FYI: MEI/Microcenter is out of 5-1/4" diskettes > Date: Saturday, January 23, 1999 8:35 AM > > On Thu, 21 Jan 1999 Tony Duell wrote: > >Ouch!. 8" disks are difficult to find, 5.25" disks are difficult to find > >(what about 1.2 Mbyte ones - are they still available?), 3" disks are > >impossible to find. I'd better start hoarding them... > > You can still buy 8", 5.25" HD and 3" disks. Trouble is, they may be *Really* > expensive; I noticed on the Imation web site a couple of months ago that (from > memory) a box of 8" disks was over US$100. > > 3" disks are still available new from at least one place in the UK, though they > are over 2 pounds each. > > > -- Mark

25 years, 11 months

Where to buy Gorilla Banana printers?

by edick＠idcomm.com

That's definitely the answer . . . Thrift Stores . . . I donated about a dozen terminals and nearly as many daisywheel printers to them last year just to have the things out of here. It's amazing what you find there. Dick ---------- > From: John R. Keys Jr. <jrkeys(a)concentric.net> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: RE: Where to buy Gorilla Banana printers? > Date: Saturday, January 23, 1999 8:59 AM > > I do have a couple back in Houston with condition unknown at this time. > When I go back in June I will check and may make a trade. I got them at > Goodwill thrift stores in Houston. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: CLASSICCMP-owner(a)u.washington.edu > > [mailto:CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu]On Behalf Of Todd Osborne > > Sent: Saturday, January 23, 1999 12:57 AM > > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > > Subject: Where to buy Gorilla Banana printers? > > > > > > Anyone know where I can find a Gorilla Banana printer? I have searched all > > the "normal" channels. These things were so popular in the early 80's, I > > can't believe they have all disappeared. Thanks, > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------- > > Todd Osborne > > Senior Software Engineer > > FMStrategies, Inc. > > http://www.fmstrategies.com/ > > -------------------------------------------------------- > > FMStrategies, Inc: tosborne(a)fmstrategies.com > > Internet E-Mail: todd.osborne(a)barnstormer-software.com > > -------------------------------------------------------- > > Founder of the Virtual Windows Class Library (C++) > > http://www.barnstormer-software.com/vwcl/ > > -------------------------------------------------------- > > Anagrams? (http://www.wordsmith.org/anagram/) > > Can you figure out this one? Want the answer? E-Mail me. > > COCO VERDI MOM (Hint: Think Late 1970's Computer) > > -------------------------------------------------------- > > Quote: > > "The timid die just like the daring, and if you don't take the plunge then > > you'll just take the fall" - Michael Longcor > > > >

25 years, 11 months

Legitimacy of the Ten Year Rule.

by edick＠idcomm.com

This is all well and good, but for the fact, it seems peculiar to refer to, and deal with, as "classic", machines, the architecture of which is still supported with currently available commercial, off-the shelf, software and hardware products. DIGITAL products aside, the original PC architecture is still supported with software and hardware in the form of playing-card-sized mocrocontrollers, etc. and the software to develop for and test these devices is still available, thereby extending the life of these old but still capable devices. The term classic, seemingly a qualifier to this list, must refer to SOME class. Isn't it like the old ('50's) T-bird, vis-a-vie the Edsel? Dick ---------- > From: Doug <doug(a)blinkenlights.com> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Re: Legitimacy of the Ten Year Rule. > Date: Saturday, January 23, 1999 2:00 AM > > On Sat, 23 Jan 1999, Buck Savage wrote: > > > To do so would not be different from the same activity as applied to > > antiques, numismatics, philately, etc. It is exactly in this way that > > these, and other, standards of collectability (a measure of "value" not > > necessarily economically justifiable) are derived, becoming manifest. > > A "universal" rating/certification system, similar to the way coins are > graded, would be ideal. But I don't think you'll ever get this group to > agree on anything -- just do it! (And then sell a book.) > > Forget the word "classic". A guide that gives production numbers, > variations, years, criteria to judge condition, price, etc. would be cool > -- I'd buy one, and I'd buy a new copy every year as you updated prices > and other info. > > Start with Hans P's list of machines (and pay him royalties). > > -- Doug >

25 years, 11 months

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test-drb January 1999