At 09:41 AM 6/17/98 -0400, you wrote:
>I think there was an automated loom that was invented in the 17th century
>that wove a pattern based on a template, but I don't recall if this was a
IIRC, this is where our modern-day punched cards came from.
--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/
Hi. Just wanted to check...
What's the:
1) First calculating device (fingers and mind)
2) First human made computer (program given for input, so abbacus doesn't
count, output given)
3) Computer capible of storing programs
4) Computer capible of doing more than direct math (IE run programs for
AI's, etc.)
5) First digital computer
6) First microchip based computer (probably based on the 4004)
7) First computer to sell more than 1,000
8) " " " " " " 10,000
9) First computer to use a floppy disk (any kind of floppy)
Thanks,
Tim D. Hotze
At 12:59 AM 6/17/98 -0700, you wrote:
>Apple Macintosh IIci Cache Card (nubus)
>Duh. I can make a good guess at this one.
I'll offer $5 for this... When I run across 'em, I stick 'em in the IIci's
in Rachel's classroom. Dunno if it does anything, but it sounds cool.
>Unknown nubus board
>Has markings DRO1 DEMO PC 10-184464- SER. NO. AA on component side.
>Has several unmarked chips and empty sockets. There is also a good
>deal of loose blue wire running hither and yon. On the end is a female
>37 pin connector. Obviously this is a prototype. Is there any way
>to find out for what?
Well, Dx-37F is an external floppy connector for PC's. Coupled with the
"PC" in "DEMO PC", I'd guess a hardware PC emulator.
--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/
>> Hire the handicapped. They don't get much work done, but they're fun
>> to watch.
Hmm, I'll take that as a joke - in the way that it was (hopefully)
intended. A word of advice though; think twice about what you say on
this list - or anywhere else for that matter - as some people could
take offence to that comment (and justifiably so!)
J.
>
At 12:11 AM 6/17/98 -0400, you wrote:
>Hire the handicapped. They don't get much work done, but they're fun
>to watch.
Call me a pissing-liberal, but I have to reply... (and yes, I understand
it was most likely a joke, but for them what don't understand that...) (And
keep in mind that especially on the internet, there is a very high
probability that someone who reads your message may be physically
challenged. (I know for a fact that at least one person on this list is.))
The "handicapped" are often more productive than the rest of society.
Hawking is a good example. I can cite more if you want.
So call me hyper-sensitive, but as one who drives around with a crip-card
in the car most of the time...
Actually, it is the people who seem physically fine that are often the most
handicapped.
--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/
On Jun 18, 1:44, Tony Duell wrote:
> You've never had a marginal timing problem, or a pattern-related data
> problem? I am suprised.
>
> Put it this way. I had a 1793 that, when it was warm, would not gerenrate
> a data request bit if (I think) the last 2 bytes loaded were both FF.
> Something totally crazy like that. Took a long time (and a lot of
> corrupted disks) to track that one down.
>
> Ditto for marginal timing that fixes itself when the machine is cold, or
> hot, or when you wave your hands over the CPU board, or whatever.
My two favourites are both from BBC Micros:
1) a manufacturing fault: a particular machine would work from cold, but
fail after about half a minute. It turned out that the IC used to select
bank-switched ROMs had been inserted with one pin bent under the chip.
It actually looked like it was properly soldered from the top side of the
board, and impossible to tell from the underside, because the manufacturing
process had skimmed all the protruding pins virtually flush with the board
(onme particular subcontractor sometimes skimmed too close and damaged the
tracks, but that's another story).
Anyway, when it was cold, the bent pin touched the solder in the hole.
When it warmed up even slightly, the other pins apparently expanded just
enough to raise the IC and the bent pin lost contact.
2) a design fault: the original BBC used a ULA for video timing, and once
it was in production, it was quickly found that many would start to give
timing errors (manifested as twinkling characters) when they got warm.
ULAs do run fairly warm, but they aren't supposed to need heatsinks, so
this was a bit puzzling.
It turned out that some gates in a chain had been set up as open-collector
when they should have had pullups; when cold, the characteristics were such
that the output got to a reasonable level quickly enough for the input it
was driving, but when the IC was hot the level changed too slowly. As John
Coll (who ran the original training courses) put it, if you could drill a
hole in the top of the IC, and connect a pullup resistor to the correct
gate with a microprobe, you wouldn't need the heatsink.
Later versions of the custom chip were indeed provided as "heatsinkless".
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Dept. of Computer Science
University of York
First off, sorry is this comes through as unreadable garbage, I'm @ work,
so I've got to use Lotus notes....
:(
Wasn't Omniweb the Web browsers for NeXT machines? Was it ever released on
other platforms?
If my memory serves me correctly, when MS/NS were having they're best
viewed on icon war,
Omniweb had an icon with the slogan, "Not to shabby when viewed with
OmniWeb".
Anyway, I digress, if you import your file into a newer version of word,
then save as,with the file type HTML
Alternately, there was a plug in released by MS called internet assistant.
I'm not sure which versions of word
it runs on, check their website for info.
Sorry for wandering OT.
Grant.
"R. Stricklin (kjaeros)" <red(a)bears.org> on 06/18/98 08:28:05 AM
Please respond to classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu
To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers"
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
cc:
Subject: Re: What is the first computer?
On Thu, 18 Jun 1998, Rax wrote:
> HTML table (the timeline runs about 10,000 words and I can't face the
> thought of re-typing it), I'll post it on my Web site for list members'
> general edification and enlightenment, as well as criticisms,
corrections,
> and nit-picking.
HTML.. table? HTML table?
Do you have any idea how long it would take render a table of that size in
Omniweb? Ugh.
Why not use the list tags, like a sensible person?
Using tables as a method of formatting HTML is unforgivable. (:
ok
r.
My thoughts exactly. Look at the card. Is there an intel or cyrix
microprocessor on the board? Another hint is four identical square
chips (the chipset).
>>Duh. I can make a good guess at this one.
>
>I'll offer $5 for this... When I run across 'em, I stick 'em in the
IIci's
>in Rachel's classroom. Dunno if it does anything, but it sounds cool.
>
>>Unknown nubus board
>>Has markings DRO1 DEMO PC 10-184464- SER. NO. AA on component side.
>>Has several unmarked chips and empty sockets. There is also a good
>>deal of loose blue wire running hither and yon. On the end is a
female
>>37 pin connector. Obviously this is a prototype. Is there any way
>>to find out for what?
>
>Well, Dx-37F is an external floppy connector for PC's. Coupled with
the
>"PC" in "DEMO PC", I'd guess a hardware PC emulator.
>
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
O-
>
>Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
>roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen
know."
>Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
>San Francisco, California
http://www.sinasohn.com/
>
>
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
For anyone that cares, here is a list of the configurations of my HP
9825s. Notice there's some funny stuff here. Some are marked 9825A on the
back but 9825B in the front next to the display. Several are marked 9825T
under the paper cover. #4 says A on the back, B next to the display and T
under the cover! You figure that one out!
Many of them have a list, under the paper cover, of ROMs that are
installed internally in the machine. The ROMs listed are not the same on
every machine and they're listed in differnt orders. Also some machines
have different amounts of memory.
The box mentioned on some of them is a small box that extends out the
back where the power cord plug in is located. It looks like a noise filter
was added on to some of the machine.
Some of these also have the operating system located in a plug ROM
located in the side of the machine.
Joe
#1
9825A SN 1622A07600 also 1637A01402 on back
OPT 002 23228 Bytes
ROMS
98210A String - Advanced Progranmming
98211A Matrix
98214A 9826A Plotter- General I/O - Extended I/O
Has OS ROM in the side 09825-87905
#2
9825B SN 1014A02207 no OS ROM
Full Travel keyboard. Has box on the back.
Inside paper cover it's marked " 9825T” and lists the following installed
devices: 9872A Plotter, General I/O, Extended I/O, Advanced Programming,
String, System Programming , Total Memory 61670 Bytes
#3
9825A SN 1622A09285 SN 1725A00116 on back
Has full travel keyboard and box on the back.
has Opt 001 15036 Bytes
ROMS
98210A String - Advanced Progranmming
98211A Matrix
98213A General I/O - Extended I/O
98216A Plotter- General I/O - Extended I/O
Has OS ROM in the side 09825-87905
#4
9825A (but marked 9825B next to the display) SN 1014A02187
Full Travel keyboard and has the box on the back.
Inside paper cover it's marked "9825T" and lists the following installed
devices:
9872A Plotter, General I/O, Extended I/O, Advanced Programming, String,
System Programming , Total Memory 61670 Bytes
No OS ROM
No plug in ROMs
#5
9825A SN 1622A04464
has chicklet keys
Inside paper cover it's marked " 9825A” and lists the following installed
devices:
9872A Plotter, General I/O, Extended I/O, String, Advanced Programming,
Matrix
Opt 001 15036 bytes, Opt 002 23228 bytes.
ROMS
98210A String - Advanced Progranmming
98211A Matrix
98216A 9872A Plotter- General I/O - Extended I/O
(note: none of these ROMs should be in this machine!)
HP 98034B HP-IB Interface
HP 98034A HP-IB Interface
HP 98032-Opt 85 16 bit I/O w/ HP 9885 Disc Interface
( Yes, it could operate two HP-IB interfaces. As long as they had different
addresses.)
#6
HP 9825A SN 1622A03718
Has cicklet keys.
Option 001 15036 total bytes
ROMS
98210A String - Advanced Progranmming
98217A 9885M Flexible Disk Drive
98216A 9872A Plotter- General I/O - Extended I/O
Has OS ROM in the side 09825-87905
#7
9825A (but marked 9825B next to the display)
Full Travel keyboard.
Inside paper cover it's marked " 9825B” and lists the following installed
devices:
9872A Plotter, General I/O, Extended I/O, Advanced Programming, String,
System Programming , Total Memory 61670 Bytes
ROMS
98211A Matrix
Has large warning label on outside top warning the user not to install any
ROMs other than the 98211 matrix ROM or the 98217A Flexible Disk Drive ROM.
Installing any plug-in ROM that is already built into the calculator may
cause damage the machine.
<SNIP>
> I think there was an automated loom that was invented in the 17th century
> that wove a pattern based on a template, but I don't recall if this was a
> hole punch reader, a specially shaped gear, or other apparatus. It did
> exist though. Although most definitely not a computer as we see them today,
> it did take a program for input, process it, and output it in the form of
> fabric. (I think this was right before CGA was made a standard...)
I remember seeing a picture of this machine-- it was a link-belt of
cards in a loop, with holes punched through them. They would pass by
this 'reader' thingie which would 'read' the card with a matrix of
metal rods poking through the holes.
Using cards in such a manner would be like kinda using a ROM chip as
a character generator for a CRT display. Hence the wisecrack about
CGA is actually not far from the mark! ;^)
> >5) First digital computer
>
> Didn't someone just post a link about the "first digital computer" turning
> 50 years old? It was on the BBC website, I believe.
>
> >6) First microchip based computer (probably based on the 4004)
> >7) First computer to sell more than 1,000
> >8) " " " " " " 10,000
> >9) First computer to use a floppy disk (any kind of floppy)
>
> As for the rest, maybe somone more knowledgable than I can help you there.
>
>
> ________________________________________
> john higginbotham limbo.netpath.net -
> webmaster, http://www.pntprinting.com -
> "Teamwork is essential; it gives the -
> enemy other people to shoot at." -
>
>
>
>
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