test-drb April 1998

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

122 participants
678 discussions

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

><< This struck a chord with me... > > >protection of data/software contained on the machine or disks. If you buy a > >camcorder at a consignment or pawn shop and the last owners left a tape of > >their after-hours playtime in the camcorder, is it my responsibility to > erase, > >safeguard or return it? I think not. I feel the same should apply to > personal OK, my father's car was stolen once, and when we got it back, we found a tape in it (apparently of a counseling session) that wasn't there before. Is it our responsibility to erase it? > > >i'd be willing to argue this somewhat. as an example, my brother gave me a >complete ps2 model 30 that was literally being thrown in the trash. the >company he worked for was upgrading their computers. when i finally got a hold >of it, i looked at all the data on the machine. i found some personal data >from someone who evidently used it such as resume, job history, etc in >addition to work specific to that company. there was also a few other programs >on it, such as xtree, wp51, lotus and procomm. as i deleted the data files >keeping the applications, i felt no responsibility to the previous user. it >may not be politically correct, but i will save any applications i find on the >computers i pick up. I save my programs too, at least to check what they are. Once I've checked, I generally wish never to see the program again (weird games that have no way to quit them, strange finance programs, etc.) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 3 months

Old Data

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 98-04-04 06:46:33 EST, you write: << This struck a chord with me... >protection of data/software contained on the machine or disks. If you buy a >camcorder at a consignment or pawn shop and the last owners left a tape of >their after-hours playtime in the camcorder, is it my responsibility to erase, >safeguard or return it? I think not. I feel the same should apply to personal ABSOLUTELY it is your responsibility. >> i'd be willing to argue this somewhat. as an example, my brother gave me a complete ps2 model 30 that was literally being thrown in the trash. the company he worked for was upgrading their computers. when i finally got a hold of it, i looked at all the data on the machine. i found some personal data >from someone who evidently used it such as resume, job history, etc in addition to work specific to that company. there was also a few other programs on it, such as xtree, wp51, lotus and procomm. as i deleted the data files keeping the applications, i felt no responsibility to the previous user. it may not be politically correct, but i will save any applications i find on the computers i pick up. david

27 years, 3 months

ISA-PCI Conversion possible? (About MS's PC 98 Specs)

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

>I definitely won't say it's impossible -- at my age I've given up >making judgements like that on technical matters. I will say that >it's a non-trivial problem and likely to produce underwhelming >performance compared to native PCI boards. My own preference is Yeah, but very few PCI boards are actually running at the full PCI specs. I've even seen some PCI versions of ISA boards that work at exactly the same speed as their ISA counterpart. >to keep at least one machine (like I would ever cut it down to >that!) to which the old equipment is native and network it to the >newer equipment as I acquire it. Then again, I don't pay a lot of >attention to MS's hardware specs, since the only times I run their >software is to play games or to figure out how to get something >running in DOSEMU or WABI under Linux -- most of my emulators of Well, as unimportant as they may seem to you, their hardware specs will influence your x86 Linux machines, unless a vendor's smart enough to make ISA/PCI/AGP boards. >old 8-bit equipment (Tandy, Apple, Atari, etc.) work just fine >that way, and I really _don't need_ the bells and whistles in the >latest Microsoft Office(tm) suite except when an employer insists >upon it at work, and eight times out of ten I manage to get >around it there as well. You're right, but still, like I said, you may be ISA-less. It's time that we killed the bus, I agree, but allowing a smooth migration would help alot. For instance, my AWE 64's been on my machine for under a week. Now, if I were to get an all-PCI system, I'd loose my *new* soundcard. ISA's outdated, my SB isn't. Ciao, Tim D. Hotze

27 years, 3 months

Old Data

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 07:48 PM 4/2/98 -0600, you wrote: >* I'll return or destroy any personal data I find on a machine I acquire. change to: ...acquire, keeping it in the strictest confidence should I find it necessary to view it. or something like that. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 3 months

Old Data

by sethm＠loomcom.com

A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2281 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980330/eec880cc/at…

27 years, 3 months

Video capture

by rhblake＠bbtel.com

Anyone have an excess video capture card that they might want to sell or trade for? It doesn't matter if it's VLB, IS or MCA but I would like it to be a color capture, preferably in real time (so I could capture frames). It should also be as complete as possible (manuals, software, etc). I can get a "Snappy" pretty cheap but figured I'd find a good capture card if possible before I thought about going into all of this forst. It's a whim thing, not a definite need. I just figured it's time to expand the I/O that the machine is capable of, and maybe start capturing video clips to use in training videos/software. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake(a)bbtel.com or rhblake(a)bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ # 1714857 * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* --------------------------------------------------------------------

27 years, 3 months

To restore or not to restore...

by scott＠isd.canberra.edu.au

I collect home micros, and I recently acquired a Mac 128K. However, it's been quite heavily modified with contemporary third-party add-ons. It's been taken up to 1M RAM and it's had a SCSI interface installed. The memory has been taken up to 512K by removing the 64K x 1 bit RAM chips and replacing them with 256K x 1 bit chips, plus adding a few discrete components (not hard, considering the 128K and 512K Macs shared the same PC board). It has then been taken up to 1M by adding a third-party 512K RAM expansion board, which plugs into one of the RAM sockets (the chip it displaces being installed onto the expansion board), and is connected to the address decoding by several flying leads. The SCSI interface has been installed by removing the ROM chips, plugging a daughterboard into the empty ROM sockets, and plugging the ROM chips into the daughterboard. The SCSI socket replaces the cover over the battery in the back of the Mac. So, my question is, should I: 1) Leave it as it is; 2) Remove the SCSI interface (easy, just remove the daughter board, take the ROM chips out of it and put them back into the motherboard's ROM sockets); 3) Remove the SCSI interface *and* the 512K RAM daughter board (not *too* hard, desolder the flying leads (taking note of where they go to, just in case I want to reinstall the board), remove the board from the RAM chip's socket, remove the RAM chip from the daughterboard and put it back in the motherboard's now-empty RAM socket); 4) Take it back to original condition (quite difficult, as well as steps 1)and 2) it involves desoldering 16 256K x 1 bit RAM chips, (plus a few discrete components) and soldering in 16 64K x 1 bit RAM chips). What are people's opinions on this? Regards, | Scott McLauchlan |E-Mail: scott(a)cts.canberra.edu.au| |Administration IT User Support Team|Phone: +61 2 6201 5544 (Ext.5544)| | Client Services Division |Post: University of Canberra, | | University of Canberra, AUSTRALIA | ACT, 2601, AUSTRALIA. |

27 years, 3 months

Another RL02 question...

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Apr 3, 15:36, Bill/Carolyn Pechter wrote: > > <I may be wrong, but I thought the RL01/RL02 needed a seek to even switch > > <heads to guarantee the #0 and #1 head were on cyl when reading/writing.

27 years, 3 months

Another RL02 question...

by DSEAGRAV＠toad.xkl.com

Do I have to program a seek to switch heads? I notice there's a head bit that can be set during the SEEK command... Can I just specify the head during a WRITE command, or do I have to seek to switch the head? -------

27 years, 3 months

Zendex

by dastar＠wco.com

Well, I called over to Zendex today to inquire about the system I found and talked to a sales engineer. He's going to try to dig up some sales brochures and stuff for me. On an interesting note, he began drilling me on my knowledge of Multi-bus (of which I have none) and then explained to me that they still have a market for the old systems and boards and they are in need of someone technically competent with Multi-bus to hire on a consulting basis. What they need is someone who knows Multi-bus, CIM-bus and ISBX modules for testing and assembly. They need someone who knows enough to assemble the boards from schematics they still have lying around and to test the boards' functionality. They currently don't have anyone on staff who has expertise in this older technology, so they would like to find someone young, old or in between to hire on as a consultant to do this work (he recalled a radio program on NPR that we both heard recently about older technology workers having difficulty finding work as they are being superceded by younger, more "energetic" workers who work for less pay). I told him I'd put the word out for him as a favor (and also so that he'll feel obligated to give me stuff). The Company is Zendex Corporation in Dublin, California. Their phone number is (925) 828-3000 and you want to ask for Howard Czapla. I'd appreciate if you could also pass along to me the name of any prospects you refer. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!

27 years, 3 months

Network cards

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

I recently found a PS/2 MOdel 70. Does anyone have an Ethernet card for it, that has a coaxial cable connector and that could be sold to me for not-too-much? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 3 months

Neural Networks

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

I am talking about either. In truth, I am interested in AI, whose goal is to approach the functionings of the brain. So, whatever features each shares, or differes in is fine. But I suppose that "idealized" networks are what I mean, that is ones in a purely mathematical space. For one thing, how are the connections made if not randomly? I thought it was essentially based on the closest free neuron. What kind of summation is it if not linear? Do you mean that if the threshold is 5, 4 is more than to times closer than 2? What does that mean, if anything? >> a certain predetermined level, the neuron sends a pulse on the output, >> to trigger other neurons. >> Could someone please complicate the picture for me? > >Are you asking about wet and squishy neural nets or artificial neural >nets? There's nothing random about the connections of either in a >*functioning* net, but a learning net can have somewhat random >connections. The "summation" isn't linear in either type of net, and the >trigger can be a frequency threshold as well as an amplitude threshold. > >Of course, real neural nets are *much* more complicated and are affected >by food, sleep, and neuro-transmitter analogues like LSD. > >-- Doug > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 3 months

Another RL02 question...

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<I may be wrong, but I thought the RL01/RL02 needed a seek to even switch <heads to guarantee the #0 and #1 head were on cyl when reading/writing. Head 0/1 are on opposite sides of the platter so they will always be on the same cylinder. So there are 512 cylinders of two heads, 40 sectors of 256 bytes per track (one head/side of a cylinder). There are a lot of ways to organize that physical layout. Allison

27 years, 3 months

Wanted: Apple ][ Card Info

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 98-03-20 23:14:29 EST, you write: << The list is, more or less, on topic, and I've taken this oppertuinity to ask a question: My Apple ][ has a Language card called a "Pocket Rocket". Now, what does this do? Does it let me write in such languages as Pascal, C, or, on my ][+, Integer BASIC? Also, is RAM expansion avaible to increase RAM to 128K (As I've heard that it could go to...) Thanks, >> pocket rocket is applied engineering's equivalent to apple's language card. it's very small, and doesnt require a cable to the motherboard like earlier models did. david

27 years, 3 months

To restore or not to restore...

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 06:25 PM 4/2/98 +1000, you wrote: >I collect home micros, and I recently acquired a Mac 128K. However, it's >been quite heavily modified with contemporary third-party add-ons. It's [...] >1) Leave it as it is; I'll vote for this. My logic is: a) it's an interesting specimen as is, displaying the ingenuity and constant striving for performance that the computer industry has had since day 1. b) you can always remove the extras later. a) has it's merits, but wouldn't be my main motivation. b) on the other hand, would be reason enough. If nothing is being harmed, don't do anything now that you could do later. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 3 months

Zendex Computer

by dastar＠wco.com

I found a really neat computer the other day. Its made by a company called Zendex circa 1980. It's an 8085 multi-bus machine. Inside it has the processor board, a disk controller, an I/O board, and a parallel interface daughter-board bolted to the back, but which is connected to the system bus by way of a ribbon cable. The front panel consists of 8 interrupt and one reset switch. A very unique system, in that I've never seen one or even heard of the company before, but nothing special. However, the neat thing about this computer is that the company that makes it is still around and in fact is right around the corner from where I work! When I first examined the computer, it had a label with the company's address: 6680 Sierra Ct in Dublin, California. I went there a couple days ago and they are in almost the exact same spot (one address over now). The slogan embossed on their front window reads "International Manufacturer of Microcomputers Since 1979". I went inside, explained who I was and why I was there, and asked if there was anyone I could speak to about the system to get information (and hopefully documentation) on it. I was told to call back as everyone was in a meeting so I'll be bringing the system by today to bug them. I finally had a chance to open it up last night. One of the neater things is that the front panel circuit board has imprinted on it "Made in Dublin". Now, the reason this is quaint is because, although Dublin is part of the "Bay Area", its not by any means considered a part of the "Silicon Valley". So "Made in Dublin" I think is a cute little acknowledgement of the fact that the company was removed from the main hi-tech bustle of that era. This particular area where I'm at is not foreign to significant computer companies as Processor Technology (makers of the Sol-20) made their headquarters just a mile away in Pleasanton, California. It's nice discovering that makers of classic computers used to be right in your backyard. It's even nicer when they're still around so you can go bug them for information. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!

27 years, 3 months

Neural Networks

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

Oops! Apologies to those who weren't interested. Although neural nets go back a long way, they're not classic computers, and I thought this was being sent to Max, not the list. On Apr 3, 2:25, Pete Turnbull wrote: > Subject: Re: Neural Networks > On Apr 2, 17:33, Max Eskin wrote: > > Subject: Neural Networks -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

27 years, 3 months

serial port buffers

by rexstout＠uswest.net

I guess this is a little off-topic, but I'm not exactly sure where to ask about this... Anyone know anything about the Intellicom Mega-Link four port buffer? Four buttons and six LED's on the front, a row of eight 256k RAM chips and three rows of sockets for more RAM, and the three DB-25 and a 36-pin centronics connector on the back. Any ideas on how to hook it up? I'm gessing there was either a special cable for it(centronics to serial port) or maybe it was designed to attach to a serial port card or something... -------------------------------------------------------------- | http://members.tripod.com/~jrollins/index.html - Computers | | http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/1681/ - Star Trek | | orham(a)qth.net list admin KD7BCY | --------------------------------------------------------------

27 years, 3 months

To restore or not to restore... (fwd)

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 98-04-02 13:28:02 EST, you write: << > I collect home micros, and I recently acquired a Mac 128K. However, it's > been quite heavily modified with contemporary third-party add-ons. It's > been taken up to 1M RAM and it's had a SCSI interface installed. >> whenever i find a computer that's been modified, i leave it as is. for example, i have a mac512 with a internal hard disk called a hyperdrive. quite a clever setup and i also have an apple ][+ with an aftermarket encoder board which gave autorepeat, macros, type ahead, and all the characters that the //e could do. i also have a mac IIcx with a 68040 processor board. i keep all modifications as they themselves are worth as much as the computer itself and provide personality to the machine. david

27 years, 3 months

Neural Networks

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Apr 2, 17:33, Max Eskin wrote: > Subject: Neural Networks > I know we discussed this earlier, so the replies can be private, if > you wish, but it seems that some people here are familiar with the > field. > > My question is this. My understanding of neural networks is a bunch > of neurons, all more or less randomly connected, with one output > and an arbitrary number of inputs; if the sum of the inputs equals > a certain predetermined level, the neuron sends a pulse on the output, > to trigger other neurons. > Could someone please complicate the picture for me? Sure :-) What you describe is not quite right; they're not usually totally randomly interconnected. If there are lots of neurons, they're usually in three layers. At least, for a "conventional" multilayer network, they are. There are various methods for adjusting the weights on the perceptron inputs, and propagating changes backwards through the network, in order to "teach" it. It's a slow process, involving a lot of repetition, large amounts of test data, and various formulae to do the back-propagation and also to determine when you've done enough teaching (which basically means deciding when you've minimised the errors). If you overteach such networks, the performance can actually decline. You can also build a single-layer network with just one neuron (they're usually called perceptrons, BTW). However, single-layer networks are restricted to distinguishing linearly-separable entities. In other words, if you plotted a scatter chart with all the possible inputs represented as dots, you could separate them into two types just by drawing a straight line through the chart. If you have more than two types, then more lines. More than two input criteria, more dimensions (and use planes etc instead of lines). The problem is, not all of the world is like that. A single layer network can't separate types if they aren't arranged in an appropriate way -- the simplest non-linearly-solvable example is the XOR problem: two types, but arranged like the pattern of 1s and 0s in an XOR truth table: 1 0 0 1 You can't draw a single line that separates the 0s from the 1s; so by definition they're not linearly seperable. You can easily do this with a multilayer network, of course. Then there are Hopfield networks. All the neurons are connected to all the others in a Hopfield network. The feedback equations get quite interesting. And Kohonen networks. You don't teach them; they learn. *What* they learn may take some figuring out... And binary networks like the one I was working with recently. You should be able to find some information about that on our Department's web server (and several other places too). http://www.cs.york.ac.uk/arch/neural/ Have I confused you yet? :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

27 years, 3 months

Neural Networks

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

I know we discussed this earlier, so the replies can be private, if you wish, but it seems that some people here are familiar with the field. My question is this. My understanding of neural networks is a bunch of neurons, all more or less randomly connected, with one output and an arbitrary number of inputs; if the sum of the inputs equals a certain predetermined level, the neuron sends a pulse on the output, to trigger other neurons. Could someone please complicate the picture for me? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 3 months

RS 102

by Philip.Belben＠powertech.co.uk

David wrote: > In a message dated 4/1/98 9:57:30 AM Eastern Standard Time, > rigdonj(a)intellistar.net writes: > > << I have a chance to buy a box full of Radio Shack model 102 portable > computers. None have been tested and there are no power supplies with them. > Does anyone know what voltage and polarity the external power connector > uses? And if there is any kind of self-test built-in? Can anyone give me an > idea of what these are worth? >> > > shoot, i'd love to have another tandy 102! my ac adaptor for my 102 says 6v dc > at 400 ma I'd love to have one at all! Seriously, Joe, if you get a box full, will you be putting some up for sale? > according to the little drawing on the adaptor, the inner part of the plug is > negative. outer part is positive. not sure what they're worth, but i bought That's all I'd need to know. I am quite used to building PSUs on such a spec. Or less. (Actually I'd look inside to see whether it needs to be regulated, but 6V seldom does). > mine with the accompanying battery operated cassette recorder and owner's > manual for $25. would love to find the external floppy for it. The model 100 I've seen for 100 or more UK pounds over here. I don't know what additional features were in the 102; I also don't think I could afford L100. But I'd probably pay $50 US including shipping for a model 102 without power supply. Philip. PS I'm back from Taiwan at last. Taiwan really is the most unhackish place I've been on my travels... But more to the point, I've missed most of the last 3 weeks on Classiccmp, so I may be ignorant of the context on some longer-running threads. Please forgive any silly questions that may arise...

27 years, 3 months

Old Data

by pjoules＠enterprise.net

>As one facet of this, we might consider what people would do with >their old systems, if they even got the *impression* that their >private information might be read by a new owner. They might >prefer to totally destroy the machine than to take a risk like >that. > I have had an instance of this recently. At work a tape drive attached to a PC and which takes the same size casettes as my Sun386i is about to become redundant. The an accounts clerk in the department concerned has said that I will not be able to have the _drive_ because it has been used for confidential data. The fact that the data is on the _tapes_ seems to reflect on the availability of the drive! Regards Pete

27 years, 3 months

Archiving docs

by dcoward＠pressstart.com

I would like hear from anyone that has done any archiving of their classic computer documents and manuals. I'm currently using a UMAX 300P that claims a maximum 24 bit color resolution of 300x600 dpi. I'm scanning into Photoshop4 and saving in JPEG format. I'm trying to save as much information as I can, so pages that have any color besides black and white, I'm scanning at 299 (that's the max for color) dpi in RGB and and everything else in 299 dpi grayscale. I'm averaging, for 8.5 x 11 pages, about 5.3 Mb for color and 2.1 Mb for grayscale. Just last weekend I burned my first CD of docs consisting of 26 color pages and 170 B/W pages for a total of 454 Mb.( I didn't fill the CD bcause I was anxious to try printing the files at work.) I printed two of the highest detailed B/W pages (schematics) today at 400 dpi. The results were disappointing. All of the fine details were lost. I assume I need to use a higher resolution for printing. I also have quite a bit of background clutter on the printed page. I'm having no problems seeing the smallest details when I magnify the pages in Photoshop. ========================================= Doug Coward dcoward(a)pressstart.com Senior Software Engineer Press Start Inc. Sunnyvale,CA Curator Museum of Personal Computing Machinery http://www.best.com/~dcoward/museum =========================================

27 years, 3 months

Serial Mouse Drivers?

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

Hello. I know that this is semi-off-topic, but does anyone have MS-DOS mouse drivers for a Serial MS 2.0 mouse? I was trying to run some classic DOS based software, which requires a mouse, which was not included because of Windows 95... I tried running it in Windows, I get an error... Ciao, Tim D. Hotze PS-If you could just e-mail them as an attached file to photze(a)batelco.com.bh ... that would be great.

27 years, 3 months

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test-drb April 1998