Ha! Got my first "official" rescue coming up on the 18th. One of the local
colleges (by 'local' I mean Washington state) is disposing of their old
PDP-11/44 and all its peripherals.
Here's the bad news. I don't have the space or the hauling capability to
save the entire system. I'm taking the Fujitsu 'Eagle' they've got, its
Unibus controller (an Emulex SC31 I'm told) plus some RSTS distribution
tapes and a tape drive and -possibly- a rack.
Last call: Is there anyone else in or near WA who would like to help save
the rest of the system? If not, most of it will end up with the scrappers.
Please get in touch with me directly as I will need to get my contact's OK
(he's just expecting me at the moment).
Thanks!
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272)
(Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin(a)jps.net)
"Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own
human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."
Hello all...
A couple of weeks ago, I put out an e-mail to the List that mentioned that
a friend had given a DEC PDP-11/70 (or so he thought) to me that had been
'hardened' by Schlumberger for use in the oil patch. The machine supposedly
works and weighs close to 200 lbs. The oldest board claims, I think, to
have been built in late 1978.
I know practically nothing about the PDP series and so don't have the
foggiest as to what I really have.
Finally, over the weekend, I was able to open the box (1/4" armored steel
ugly thing) and take a look at the boards -- there are a total of ten as
follows: (Keep in mind that I don't know what typical DEC parts numbers
look like -- I think that a lot of the numbers that I wrote down are
actually production lots etc):
(1): Obviously a CPU board -- AH13Z-06. Also claims DEC P/N 1216988. Has a
15MHz crystal and is 15.5x8" in size. It has edge connectors (as do all of
the boards).
(2): 'Bootstrap Terminator' - DEC-81. 5013263C-P2. 8x5".
(3): 'Flip Chip" 5008691 PCC-1Vo. 2.5x2". This is some sort of jumper board.
(4): 4MB(?) DRAM. DEC P/N 1216988 (notice that this is the same p/n as the
CPU board -- that is, I suppose?, the system part number), A88D30824
RA1-RA3: RM8-3.3Kx3 (probably a component label for a resistor pack but not
sure); C:TD104/5DX92 AH12Z-12. 15.5x8".
(5-9): H-236341 EXT BRD 10.5x8". These appear to be extendor boards that
bring +15VDC and a few timing signals out to the edge of the cage -- why
there are five, I cannot imagine...
(10): "FLIP CHIP". FEB 78 SCO/R1L OPTION M7856 H236602 -01048. 10.5x8"
This appears(?) to be possibly an I/O controller board of some sort...
Does anyone have any idea of what these things came out of?
They are free to a good home -- preferably someone that can actually use
them and put them back to work (can you imagine how boring it would be to
madly process seismographic data for 20-years -- I bet they would like to
try something different for a change) (postage + packing costs).
Regards
Jack Harper (Friend to all things Symbolics)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Jack Harper Bank Systems 2000, Inc.
303-277-1892 Golden, Colorado USA
"21st Century Financial Applications"
Optical Cards for Bank, EBT, and Medical Applications
Visit our Web Page: http://www.bs2000.com/talos (Last Update: 970902)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Go to:
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=10391784
to get in on the bidding for a 128k TRS-80 Model 4 computer.
CORD
--
___________________________________________________
| Cord G. Coslor : archive(a)navix.net |\
| Deanna S. Wynn : deannasue(a)navix.net | |
|---------------------------------------------------| |
| http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/4395 | |
|---------------------------------------------------| |
| PO Box 308 - Peru, NE - 68421 - (402) 872- 3272 | |
|___________________________________________________| |
\____________________________________________________\|
Saw a post on Usenet answering someone's request for info on a Toshiba
T3100 with the comment that the user manuals are all online. Went to
<http://www.toshiba.com/>, did a search on "t3200 manual" and sure
enough, found this page:
http://www.csd.toshiba.com/tais/csd/support/files/manuals.htm
which has manuals for their laptops going bat to the T1000LE. I'll be
busy downloading tonight...
--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/
Sent to massyr(a)washpost.com copied to classiccomp:
My cut on a nook in computer history. It's mine as I was only of
those nutty kids hacking a pdp-8 in highschool in 1969 wondering about
31 years lateer and how that would not fit into a 12 bit word used to
express date.
<i'm working on a piece here at the Washington Post about the Year
<2000 bug, and
<although there is plenty of info about what it is and how to combat
<it, there is very little
<history available.
<specifically, i'm trying to find out 1) who were the co-authors of
<the COBOL language
<along with Grace Murray Hopper,
Since she was military (LT at the time if memory serves) her fellows would
be military members as well. That may help you.
2) who decided to use two digits for the year instead of four,
Rather than answer that question directly as I cannot I'll supply resoning
instead. Computers over the years have come down in price, up in speed
and increased greatly in storage and memory. Those last two items are
significant to the discussion.
Starting in the early 50s a computer with 4000 words of memory and sorage
of say several hundred thousand words of data were large and scarce. The
technology for making memory and bulk storage were new. This would remian
true for many years, through the 60s. Because of the cost for even a few
bits of storage it was resonable to not store obvious data like the first
two digits of the date, after all tht was known and the lifetime of the
mache was like five years at best. So programming languages like Cobol
and more importantly the operating systems that managed the machine would
only keep the minimum amount of storage for the variable part of the date
(month, day, year). Memory was a premium for many machines and costly way
waste it on storing things that are assumed.
This habit persisted will into the '80s as while memories got larger and
machines smaller many would be expected to run the same or related
programs from their older parents. the scene is now set. Another thing
was the emergence of standard programming languages where certain aspect
of the language were expected to behave the same on sometimes radically
different machines.
The rest is history as many programming languages like cobol were expected
to be dead. However conservitive users like banking, government insisted
on tried and proven programming tools and languages thus propagating abd
prolonging the life of these burdend items. The burden was they had to
behave like their ancestors right down to little things like the date!
3) who discovered the Y2K problem?
It wasn't "discovered" nor was it a new problem. Some manchines and
operating systems had the equivelent of the Y2k problem several times
over and well before the year 2000. The example I know best is the
Digital Equipment Corp PDP-8, in teh mid to late 60s this machine was
introduced with the following attributes, small, low cost. It would
persist well in to the 1980's in various smaller and more compact forms.
The significance of the machine was it's the first "minicomputer" to be
sold in volume. In it's time thousands was big volumes. Now, it was
also a small machine in memory. The designeers for one of the popular
operating systems for it (known as OS/8) knowing that memory was a
precious commodity used the minimum needed to implment time and date.
The year portion was accorded a platry three bits meaning it could only
count from 0 through 7. Since this was introduced in roughly 1969 their
Y2k problem would occur every 7 years!. This was not the only machine or
company, just an example.
I know I was asking some of my friends what was going to happen as far
back as in the late 60' and early 70s when as high schools and college
students we were asking what happens if this machine should still be
running in the year 2000? Some of us considered that unlikely as the
pace for new machines at the time suggested it's life was maybe five
years and that pace was accelerating. Was was missed was the persistance
of some applications programming languages. While the PDP-8 has been out
of production for over 15 years many are still in use. While Cobol has
dropped as a mainstream language for over 10 years the problems that
are now tried and proven persist. This is true for several other
languages and some operating systems as well.
So no, the year 2000 problem wasn't discovered, save maybe for the media
person to finally put into print what every programmer and systems person
already knew. "We didn't use enough bits and were running out".
Allison
In IBM's description of the PS/2 Model 70, the said that it ran
DOS 3.3 and higher, OS/2 1.0x and higher, and AIX PS/2. Does anyone
have possession/experience with the last item? I guess it's a form
of UNIX.
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
got a card labeled SUPERTALKER II by mountain computer. i've heard of the
company, but not of the card. seems to be speech synthesis or similar. web
search on the company and the card brought up nothing. anyone have more info?
david
It occurs to me that, whilst we have heard several opinions about what to do
with old data, these posts are being achived! If someone who is thinking of
disposing of a machine sees that some on the list appear to have less
respect (IMHO) for the confidentiality of old data than others might this
not put them off giving a machine away.
FWIW I believe that we should make it clear on all 'collection associated'
web sites that any old data, whatever its nature, will be treated in the
strictest of confidence.
Regards
Pete
(Dons asbestos suit and runs for cover ;-)
Sounds like it is meant to go with early multisync monitors like NEC
Multisync I and II which have a 9 pin socket so in reality it is probably
just an EGA card.
-----Original Message-----
From: Aaron Christopher Finney <aaron(a)wfi-inc.com>
The little bit I could find on the video card claims that it uses a
multisync monitor. It has the two rca jacks and a db-9; how do I wire an
adapter for db-9 to hd-15?
The budding started tonight for a TRS-80 Model 3 network computer which
has the serial # of 0000510!! Check out this URL to get in on it if you
wish:
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=10391298
Thanks,
CORD COSLOR
--
___________________________________________________
| Cord G. Coslor : archive(a)navix.net |\
| Deanna S. Wynn : deannasue(a)navix.net | |
|---------------------------------------------------| |
| http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/4395 | |
|---------------------------------------------------| |
| PO Box 308 - Peru, NE - 68421 - (402) 872- 3272 | |
|___________________________________________________| |
\____________________________________________________\|
Toshiba also has files listing specs of older machines, and a file that
lists prices of discontinued items. See:
http://www.csd.toshiba.com/tais/csd/support/files/product.htm
P.S., the other page wasn't 100% complete (had the T5200 but not the
T5100) but still was pretty good. This one looks to have most (older)
models.
--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/
[Autocad not requiring math coprocessor]
Well, version 12 for Dos, which is what I have, seems to require it.
It refuses to start up, quitting with "80x87 required, but not
present". Whoever said it doesn't, maybe you have a lower version.
If so, which and what's it like? I would certainly be interested in
an older version, such a 7 or 8.
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
At 11:47 PM 4/3/98 -0600, you wrote:
>> >* I'll return or destroy any personal data I find on a machine I acquire.
>>
>> ...acquire, keeping it in the strictest confidence should I find it
>> necessary to view it.
>
>More like...if the person(s) that ditched the computer in whatever form
didn't
>feel the need to safeguard the information prior to release of their
>personal/corporate property, then it's of no reason to follow through with
any
>protection of data/software contained on the machine or disks. If you buy a
Except, that people may feel it's easier (and/or safer) to just destroy the
machine than it is to try and make sure no one can read their data. What
if some one told you, "yeah, I had one of those imsai computers, but I had
it smashed up to make sure no one could get at my old tax returns." Not a
pleasant thought.
I agree that people should be responsible for their own data, but I also
feel that we, as collectors, need to hold ourselves to a higher standard,
so that people will feel comfortable giving us their old machines.
Similarly, would you tell your analyst/doctor/lawyer as much as you do, if
you thought they might be telling everyone in the pub what you told them?
>camcorder at a consignment or pawn shop and the last owners left a tape of
>their after-hours playtime in the camcorder, is it my responsibility to
erase,
>safeguard or return it? I think not. I feel the same should apply to personal
It's your responsibility to post it on the internet! 8^)
Camcorders are reasonably well understood items; what if it were a digital
camera? Someone might decide not to pass it on if they thought they might
not have erased everything...
Most of the people here probably know how to wipe a hard drive so it can't
be read. (My best guess is a low-level format, then fill it with worthless
data? Good thing I have nothing to hide!) But the average AOL user
doesn't. When Grandpa passes on, you don't want the grandkids trashing all
his old computers because they don't know how to make sure that no one will
know about all the porno sites he visited on the web.
>Roger: Very nice page of your collection. A few more pics of each item and it
>should become a very informative source for those interested in the world of
>the obsolete (the computers, not you).
I tried to get pics of each side and any important features... You think
even more pics would be appropriate? Or do you mean pics of more computers?
P.S., for them what was interested, I'm still working (in my Copious Spare
Time) on documenting the programs I use to generate the pages. I'll post
when I get them finished and uploaded.
--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/
Got this in the mail... Please respond to Ed at ed(a)estival.com...
>X-Persona: <Roger(a)Sinasohn.Com>
>X-Originating-IP: [32.100.144.158]
>From: "Ed Schreiber" <edschreiber(a)hotmail.com>
>To: roger(a)sinasohn.com
>Subject: Franklin computer available
>Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 20:34:11 PDT
>
>To computer museums and serious collectors:
>
>There is a Franklin 1000 computer available for donation (Apple II
>clone). Monitor, two floppy drives, all cables, some software, still
>works.
>
>If interested, please respond.
>
>Ed Schreiber
>http://estival.com
>ed(a)estival.com
>
>______________________________________________________
>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/
<It's a Netronix 8085 SBC from around 1979 (I thought the 8085 came out a
<little later than that), with some sort of S-100 compatibility. He's
<faxing me a spec sheet tonight. I may pick this up if nobody else wants
<it, but I'll defer to somebody who's also interested in a (home made?)
<terminal and a small thermal (Telepar?) printer.
The 8085 is late '77 I built my Netronics8085 in mid '78. I used to
call on netronics. Mine is still in use as a Eprom programmer.
The system was motherboard based with bus expansion as S100. The CPU
was a 3mhz 8085. There was also a simple serial IO (bitbash) and casette
interface on the board along with an assortment of parallel IO. The base
board could be configured to take up to 8k of 2716 eprom (or 2116 2kx8
ram) and 4k of 2114 ram. The Northstar disk and PT-VDM1 worked very well
with it makes in very compact s100 system.
Allison
Tim Hotze scribbled...
>the old ISA cards I've collected, I just got an AWE 64, and my scanner and
>PCMCIA cards are ISA-based. So, is it possible to make a device that will
>make an ISA card fit into a PCI socket? Is anyone making them?
No one that I know of. In fact, I question that such a device is even
economically possible to the point that a company would want to try. The
architecture differences between PCI and ISA are enormous.
The only thing I can think of that -might- stand a chance of working is to
construct some sort of sub-board that the ISA card would plug into. Said
sub-board would contain the necessary circuitry to implement an ISA-to-PCI
bridge.
This means, at bare minimum, dealing with a 220-lead surface-mount PQFP
chip and its supporting components. That means lots of skill in engineering
such bridges, to say nothing of having access to schematic capture and PC
board layout tools that can handle advanced boards...
Well, you get the idea. I'm not going to say "it can't be done" because I
think it can. It's just that I have neither the skill nor the desire to
attempt it. ;-)
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272)
(Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin(a)jps.net)
"Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own
human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."
Seriously look for a Weitek Math Co processor, especially if you've got lots
of RAM. They were 387-compatible FPU's that used some RAM to boost speed
dramatically. As a matter of fact, a Weitek might even be faster than a FPU
found on a Pentium or higher machine.
-----Original Message-----
From: Jack Peacock <peacock(a)simconv.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Monday, April 06, 1998 9:34 PM
Subject: RE: Math coprocessors
>Ward Donald Griffiths III wrote:
>> Max Eskin wrote:
>> >
>> > I found a PS/2 Model 70 recently, which would normally have a 386,
>> > but the previous owner installed a Cyrix 486 upgrade chip. Does
>> > anyone know if I can use a 386 math coprocessor with this? I want
>> > to run AutoCAD.
>>
>> The i486 has a coprocessor built in, I assume that the Cyrix does
>> as well. Try the software. IIRC, AutoCAD doesn't _require_ a math
>> coprocessor, but one does help performance by an order or two of
>> magnitude on a 386.
>> --
>No, the Cyrix 486DL (I assume it is a DL or DR2 if it's in a 386
>motherboard) is not the same as an Intel 486. The Cyrix 486DL was an
>upgrade CPU for the 386 pinout, adding a 486 instruction set and 1K
>internal cache. The 486DR2 version was clock doubled. These CPUs do
>not have floating point. Generally an Intel 80387 did not work
>reliably, but the Cyrix 487 co-processor did. ULSI (and I think IIT)
>also made 487s. You can try the Intel 387, sometimes they ran ok,
>mostly it depended on the speed range used.
> Jack Peacock
Having recently discovered this list, I might have a chance at getting some
help for a long obsolete Radius product: the Radius Full Page Display for
the Mac SE. My late mother bought this a while back, attached to a Mac,
for her word processing/typesetting business. It has never worked, due to
the fact that the previous owner of the Mac SE formatted the hard disk
before handing it over to her. The drivers for the card _were_ on there,
but she used the machine for weeks before asking her sons why the big screen
initialized but never worked.
The external monitor comes up, displays a half-tone pattern, then goes
dark. I did manage to get _a_ driver for the card when Radius still had
it on their ftp site, but, alas, the ROMs are too old to work with that
version of the driver. At the time, my mother didn't want to spend $80
to get newer ROMs from Radius, and now, they aren't available.
So... what I could use is either a) an old version of the FPD SE disks
(c. 1987-1989) or b) FPD SE ROMs newer than version 4.1 (the ones that
are installed there now). Besides the version number, the ROMs have a
U number (U19 and U20) and a part number (297-132-D and 297-131-D) and
a size (256K). The date on the ROM labels is 1989. The date on the PCB
silkscreen is 1987.
Thanks for any help.
-ethan
P.S. - I can burn my own ROMs from images. They're just plain-old 27C256's.
I have one here that I'd gladly part with. In the original
box, with the original documentation and cassettes. The
original box, it should be noted, has been written all over and
used to mail the thing hither and yon, so it's not "pristine"
to say the least.
I don't want a lot of money for it, but I'll accept little offers
to cover the hassle of mailing it, plus postage.
The only reason I'm getting rid of it is because I'm frankly
not that interested in RadioShack stuff :) So hopefully it will
end up in a nice happy friendly collector's home being tinkered
with instaed of sitting on my shelf collecting dust.
-Seth Morabito
Computer Historian, DEC Enthusiast, Weirdo
Send comments, questions, and offers to sethm(a)loomcom.com
Last week my brother found me something (usually I am the one finding
'stuff' for him. An overhead projector LCD unit! (circa 1987 so it's
on-topic). It's a monochrome unit that approximates colors via greys but bhe
really cool thing about this display is it's inputs: RGB and Composite Video!
So next time I drag one of my Commodore 8-bits for a demo I have a an overhead
display unti that works with it! (tested it with a Commodore 128 -in 64 mode-,
the screen just fits in the visible area.) (manufacturer Computer Accessories)
00100111101010010010010011100100100001110010111001001001
Andre Fachat, another Commodore PET enthusiast has just opened his 'PET
Index'. Much of it is on his latest toy the CBM 8296 (the last of the PET
line -I think even after the SuperPET-) includes links to other valuable PET
information (such as my PET FAQ). A good place to bookmark if you have any
interest in PET computers:
http://www.tu-chemnitz.de/~fachat/8bit/petindex/petindex.html
00100111101010010010010011100100100001110010111001001001
As far as anyone ever seeing a 2.8 mb floppy drive, yes, a friend of mine
has one, for the Commodore 8-bit! Creative Micro Designs (CMD) a thriving
Commodore peripheral, expansion, and accererator manufacturer for the
Commodore 64/128 had used them for the FD-4000 series disk drives. The drives
use ED (extended density?) disks (the high density hole is farther down than
on HD disks and there is an ED on the casing.) Unfortunately CMD had to drop
the line a couple years back due to the drive manufacturer dropping the model
as there was not a big enough demand for them. :/
--
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
Larry Anderson - Sysop of Silicon Realms BBS (300-2400bd) (209) 754-1363
Visit my Commodore 8-Bit web page at:
http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/commodore.html
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
<I acquired a TRS-80 VOXBOX last week. It is in the original box
<with cable, interface box, mic, and three casette tapes. I remember
<when RS was selling these. Has anyone ever used one? Did they actually
<work?
<
<Any historical insight is appreciated.
It speaks, classic mechanical sounding speech. Rather fun to play with.
Allison
<The accompanying lab workbook for the _The Art of Electronics_ is
<worth obtaining for getting the "Write-Only Memory" datasheet, too.
<My favorite graph on the data sheet is "Number of pins remaining
<vs. number of socket insertions". (Wasn't this originally published
<in an April 1 issue of _Electronics_ in the 70's?)
I got my copy of that data sheet as an official looking Signetics data
sheet along with the data books circa 1972. It was the EIA/IEEE spec'd
spigot in the lower right side of the device logical drawing. IT went
well with the ISO bit bucket. ;)
Allison
On Apr 6, 17:15, Max Eskin wrote:
> Subject: Re: math coprocessors
> [Autocad not requiring math coprocessor]
> Well, version 12 for Dos, which is what I have, seems to require it.
> It refuses to start up, quitting with "80x87 required, but not
> present". Whoever said it doesn't, maybe you have a lower version.
> If so, which and what's it like? I would certainly be interested in
> an older version, such a 7 or 8.
Even fairly old versions require a maths copro. Some of my then-colleagues at
Acorn Computers were involved in negotiations with Autodesk in 1987, to get it
ported to the ARM architecture. AD ported Autosketch quite quickly, because it
doesn't need a maths copro, but they refused to port AutoCad, because they
insisted a maths coprocessor was essential (despite the fact that the software
routines available outperformed some contemporary maths processors).
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Dept. of Computer Science
University of York
(This is a follow-up to an earlier posting, but with some corrections
and further information.)
I recently acquired an old Macintosh II. In it was an older SuperMac
video board. Based on the pictures on Radius' web site, I have concluded
that this is a Spectrum/8 (original), Part # STD9411, Assy #
1002689-0001.
The label on the ROM reads:
SUPERMAC TECH
SPECTRUM D6
1002690-B 1986
According to Newer`s SlotInfo program, The card revision is 1.0B9 and
has a part number of VGB-1.
Per Radius' FAQ, I have tried holding down the OPTION key while booting,
but
never got the "round robin" video mode selection. I have also tried
running SuperVideo 2.7.5 which tells me I must have ROM version 1.9 or
later in order to select a monitor.
Currently, the card seems to be "stuck" in what I assume is the default
mode of 1016x768.
So, does anyone have:
1) Info on how to get the card into other modes (pref 640x480 for now).
2) Setup software for this old a card.
3) Any info on support monitor resolutions and frequencies?
Thanks in advance...
<<<John>>>
