test-drb April 1998

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

122 participants
678 discussions

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

now, back to something on topic... picked up an unenhanced //e system for $10. a bit dirty from no use and a broken shift key, but powers up fine. came with 2 floppies, monchrome display which needs the contrast control cleaned and the ever popular system saver. this one has a hayes micromodem //e whereas the ][+ i got last week had a micromodem II. besides the way they connect to the phone line, are there any major differences? i presume both are still 300bps. david

27 years, 2 months

You've got to be pulling my chain... (Ethernet)

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Apr 11, 14:11, J. Maynard Gelinas wrote: > Alright, so what we have is the last 4KW used up for stack > space, register mapping, and IO mapping. I would guess the > first 4KW were used up by the boot prom and monitor, which > leaves about 12KW for an application jump table and > initialization, the rest for memory mapped windows to the > MMU... do I have it right? I'm not sure how you did the arithmetic :-) 4KW (8KB) is used for the "I/O Page" which *includes* the boot PROMs. Stack can be anywhere. > QUOTE: > 0 000 000 001 ddd ddd -- JMP JuMP > > Loads the destination address into the PC, thus effecting an > unconditional jump. > Why is the jump destination address only six bits long? > Jeesh, I hope I'm not asking the obvious.... Because the DDD DDD specifies a register (1 of 8) and address mode (1 of 8) to use. So, you'll often see something like JMP @#0173000, which is represented in two words 000137,173000. In this example, the address mode is 3 (auto-increment deferred, deferred = indirect) and the register to use is R7, which is the PC. So it means "jump to the address given in the word the PC points to". In other words, that's how you code an absolute jump. The reason for the auto-increment is that that mode is the general way of getting immediate data, and in the general case you do need to increment the PC after the read (think about MOV R0, @#0173000, opcode 010037,173000 which stores R0 in 173000). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

27 years, 2 months

Thoughts about a Classiccmp private newsgroup

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

Yeah, but could such a thing be done on Linux/UNIX OS's? I'm guessing that you would need a NT server... and I don't like NT servers. I actually had a NT and Linux server running on the exact same machine, at different times. NT was harder to handle, and had more crashes just when I needed it most, with many requests. Also, I had to reboot it 8 times to get it set up with my video card, but not other cards, altogether, it took 16 reboots, compared to 1 with Linux. My NT 5.0 beta is showing some signs of hope, but I'll need a lot more before trusting NT with a hobby list as important as this one. Just my 0.02 Tim D. Hotze -----Original Message----- From: Richard A. Cini <rcini(a)email.msn.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Saturday, April 11, 1998 4:29 PM Subject: Re: Thoughts about a Classiccmp private newsgroup >On Fri, 10 Apr 1998 09:49:03 -0700 (PDT), Sam Ismail <dastar(a)wco.com> wrote: > >On Fri, 10 Apr 1998, Richard A. Cini wrote: > >> Anyway, as part of my Microsoft beta testing, I belong to a small >group >> of "elite" testers. Called ClubWin!, we have a private administrative >> newsgroup that requires a login name and password. Having a ClassicCmp >> newsgroup would provide a threaded conversation capability. We could also >> hang an e-mail gateway off of the news server to provide e-mail messages >for >> those who can't or want to use a newsgroup. > > >>>Give us more details, Richard. > > Well, since I wasn't the one who implemented the news server, I'm only >guessing as to its implementation. You can probably hang a NNTP (news) >server off of any Internet-accessible server. The news server has its own IP >address. Bill Whitson could create one off of the ClassicCmp server at >UofWA, or anyone else here with a free IP address and the approval of the >bosses. You could then also provide an e-mail gateway the news server so >that those who want the newsgroup activity by e-mail can get it. > > Authentication is either anonymous or login required. Each of us is >given a login name and password (like rcini and 12345678), which will be >required to logon. From there, your newsreader takes over. > >Rich Cini/WUGNET > <nospam_rcini(a)msn.com> (remove nospam_ to use) > ClubWin! Charter Member (6) > MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking >============================================ > > > >

27 years, 2 months

gcc for VAX VMS

by emu＠ecubics.com

Hi Pete, ---------- > From: Pete Turnbull <pete(a)dunnington.u-net.com> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Re: gcc for VAX VMS > Date: Saturday, April 11, 1998 8:33 AM > > does DECUS do in other countries? There must be lots of peopel like us who > keep old 11s and VAXen running. probably they don't use VMS ... ;-)) but serious, i think they expanding this Hobbiist thing to other countries. one day .... cheers, emanuel

27 years, 2 months

Thoughts about a Classiccmp private newsgroup

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Wait a second, ARE there private newsgroups on this topic? I thought it was just an idea everyone proposed but never did... > >At 08:49 AM 4/10/98 -0400, you wrote: >> Scanning today''s messages gave me an idea. I don't know if this has >>been discussed before, but I don't remember it being discussed. > >It has. It comes up every now and then on every mailing list. What >usually happens is that those who want a newsgroup go off a create a >newsgroup, and the ones who can't access or don't like newsgroups stick to >the e-mail list, and the real die-hards follow both, cross-posting stuff >all the time. > >> ClubWin! Charter Member (6) > ^ >I am not a number, I am a free man! > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- O- > >Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad >roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." >Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates >San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ > > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 2 months

Thoughts about a Classiccmp private newsgroup

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Apr 11, 17:06, Hotze wrote: > Subject: Re: Thoughts about a Classiccmp private newsgroup > Yeah, but could such a thing be done on Linux/UNIX OS's? I'm guessing that > you would need a NT server... You can run the INN server under linux (or other UNIXes), and it supports authorisation. I'd expect that the real problem is finding the extra space to store the newsgroup files. At present, I don't think the list takes up much file space, since the postings aren't archived (AFAIK). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

27 years, 2 months

gcc for VAX VMS

by emu＠ecubics.com

Hi Pete, ---------- > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Re: gcc for VAX VMS > Date: Saturday, April 11, 1998 4:54 AM > > Now, can someone remind me of the URL for VMS hobby licensing so I can do > something about my MicroVAX? > have a look at: http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/register.html cheers, emanuel

27 years, 2 months

gcc for VAX VMS

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Apr 11, 8:30, emanuel stiebler wrote: > > From: Pete Turnbull <pete(a)dunnington.u-net.com> > > Now, can someone remind me of the URL for VMS hobby licensing so I can do > > something about my MicroVAX? > > http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/register.html > P.S. You have to be a DECUS member for this, .... Thanks! I also see that it only covers a few countries -- not including the UK, where I am. I let my UK DECUS membership lapse, when they started charging considerable (at least, from a student's point of view) amounts of money for annual membership and vast amounts of money for software from the library. It's not like in the States, where there's a no-charge Basic Membership. What does DECUS do in other countries? There must be lots of peopel like us who keep old 11s and VAXen running. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

27 years, 2 months

gcc for VAX VMS

by emu＠ecubics.com

Hi Pete, ---------- > From: Pete Turnbull <pete(a)dunnington.u-net.com> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Re: gcc for VAX VMS > Date: Saturday, April 11, 1998 4:54 AM > > > Now, can someone remind me of the URL for VMS hobby licensing so I can do > something about my MicroVAX? please have a look at: http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/register.html cheers, emanuel P.S. You have to be a DECUS member for this, ....

27 years, 2 months

Thoughts about a Classiccmp private newsgroup

by rcini＠email.msn.com

On Fri, 10 Apr 1998 09:49:03 -0700 (PDT), Sam Ismail <dastar(a)wco.com> wrote: On Fri, 10 Apr 1998, Richard A. Cini wrote: > Anyway, as part of my Microsoft beta testing, I belong to a small group > of "elite" testers. Called ClubWin!, we have a private administrative > newsgroup that requires a login name and password. Having a ClassicCmp > newsgroup would provide a threaded conversation capability. We could also > hang an e-mail gateway off of the news server to provide e-mail messages for > those who can't or want to use a newsgroup. >>Give us more details, Richard. Well, since I wasn't the one who implemented the news server, I'm only guessing as to its implementation. You can probably hang a NNTP (news) server off of any Internet-accessible server. The news server has its own IP address. Bill Whitson could create one off of the ClassicCmp server at UofWA, or anyone else here with a free IP address and the approval of the bosses. You could then also provide an e-mail gateway the news server so that those who want the newsgroup activity by e-mail can get it. Authentication is either anonymous or login required. Each of us is given a login name and password (like rcini and 12345678), which will be required to logon. From there, your newsreader takes over. Rich Cini/WUGNET <nospam_rcini(a)msn.com> (remove nospam_ to use) ClubWin! Charter Member (6) MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking ============================================

27 years, 2 months

Re.: How about a weekly FS/T list? (was Sale postings to Classiccmp)

by rcini＠email.msn.com

On Fri, 10 Apr 1998 09:43:19 -0700 (PDT), Sam Ismail <dastar(a)wco.com> wrote: >>Even if everyone could agree on this it would last for about 1 week and >>then go back to status quo. I really don't mind the ads. They are not >>excessive, they are reaching a good market where there is a win-win (the >>seller gets some money and space back and the buyer gets first crack at >>cool stuff), and they are more on topic than the drivel that has been >>plaguing us for the last four weeks or so. Whether or not it would go back would depend on our level of commitment. I don't think that it is burdensome lately, because some are concentrating on slinging mud, but it would be nice to have them all in one place. Reference so to speak. Rich Cini/WUGNET <nospam_rcini(a)msn.com> (remove nospam_ to use) ClubWin! Charter Member (6) MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking ============================================

27 years, 2 months

i387's

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

I had looked in jameco's catalog before, and the prices seem rather high! $25 for a single mathco is outrageous. i remember they did/do sell system boards that arent necessarily state of the art for 2-3 times a "normal" price. do they still sell apple parts? mouser electronics (if still around) might have parts cheaper. In a message dated 98-04-11 06:13:39 EDT, you write: << >I realize that this may not quite reach the 10year mark, but not many >people deal with even this old of hardware. (Is there a group out there >for "obsolete" yet non-yet-classic hardware?) 10 years? Yes. The 80386 was designed in 1985, so the 387 couldn't be to much later than that. >I need to find somewhere to get many i387 chips. (I currently need about >15 to 20 of them.) Anyone know the best place to start looking? The EXACT place to look is Jameco, at http://www.jameco.com . In their newest catalog, they list the 80387 (unter Integrated circuts and then under Math Coprocessors), they have: (prices for the 10-99 range) 80387-33 $25.95 80387-40 $29.95 80387-16SX $34.95 """""""""20"" $39.95 """""""""25"" $44.95 I can give part #'s if you're interested. Hope this helps, Tim D. Hotze >>

27 years, 2 months

i387's

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

>I realize that this may not quite reach the 10year mark, but not many >people deal with even this old of hardware. (Is there a group out there >for "obsolete" yet non-yet-classic hardware?) 10 years? Yes. The 80386 was designed in 1985, so the 387 couldn't be to much later than that. >I need to find somewhere to get many i387 chips. (I currently need about >15 to 20 of them.) Anyone know the best place to start looking? The EXACT place to look is Jameco, at http://www.jameco.com . In their newest catalog, they list the 80387 (unter Integrated circuts and then under Math Coprocessors), they have: (prices for the 10-99 range) 80387-33 $25.95 80387-40 $29.95 80387-16SX $34.95 """""""""20"" $39.95 """""""""25"" $44.95 I can give part #'s if you're interested. Hope this helps, Tim D. Hotze

27 years, 2 months

Asshole

by e.tedeschi＠ndirect.co.uk

Without comment enrico Anonymous wrote: > > Are you a fucking idiot, Limey? Cut the damn crying on the mailing list or you might just open a message one day and have your whole machine become instantly erased...Not a threat, a promise. -- ======================================================== Enrico Tedeschi, 54 Easthill Drive, Brighton BN41 2FD, UK Tel/fax(+01273) 701650 (24 hours) and 0498 692465 (mobile) please visit my website at: <http://www.brighton-uk.com> ========================================================

27 years, 2 months

Creative Retrocomputing Use for 386s and 486s

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 08:18 PM 4/9/98 -0400, you wrote: >>around and use the PC as a disk drive "server" for the C64, VIC20 and C128? >>And that is only one thought. > >I believe that's already been done. I know it's been done for 8-bit Atari's. (I've seen a 1200xl with built-in hard-drive, using a pentium with big HD and CD as a peripheral...) (Talk to Bob Wooley of the San Leandro Computer Club, San Leandro, CA.) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 2 months

what is a Vax Station 2000?

by IVIE＠cc.usu.edu

> They are not CPU upgradable, but you can add expansion > memory out to 16MB, an 8 port async serial board (thats the big DB > connector that doesn't go anywhere) and a sync serial port. Sorry, the big DB that doesn't go anywhere is used to add another MFM hard disk. It contains the control and data signals for the second drive. I've not seen the 8-port option, but I believe it plugs in place of the color graphics board. > The SCSI port was only supported for the TKZ50 tape drive, an > old 95MB DLT type drive, although I think there was a 3rd party SCSI > disk driver from Trimarchi (now out of business). Gerhard Moeller (I believe that's his name) has hacked over the SCSI driver for the MicroVAX 3100 to bring it up on the 2000. I've used the driver under VMS 7.1 to speak to a tape drive (this gives me a nice little package to take on travel; a 2000 with an RD32 and a TZ30). Since it's a full-up SCSI port driver, it can be used to support anything VMS knows how to talk to; disks, tapes, etc. I've heard of one fellow who is using a 2000 to burn CDs. I suggest looking around on dejanews for discussion of Moeller's driver. > The VAXstation had a > graphics display for a non-standard monitor. All 2000s include a monochrome display built into the motherboard. It is also possible to add on a color display. Rumor has it that it is not impossible to use both displays simultaneously, but I've never tried it (my color monitors have died over the years). Roger Ivie ivie(a)cc.usu.edu

27 years, 2 months

Telex 181-GP printer

by dwollmann＠ibmhelp.com

Nephew has acquired a Telex 181-GP dot matrix printer. I've looked on the net, and it looks like Telex is all but gone. Any idea where I might find documentation on this unit? I'm assuming it emulates a 5152, like almost every other DM made in the 80's. Kind of ironic, as we had a huge Telex facility here in Tulsa for years. -- David Wollmann | dwollmann(a)ibmhelp.com | Support for legacy IBM products. DST ibmhelp.com Technical Support | Data, document and file conversion for IBM http://www.ibmhelp.com/ | legacy file and media formats.

27 years, 2 months

Morrow Designs Pivot

by Marty＠itgonline.com

I recently acquired a Morrow Designs Pivot Model 2522 - Special, serial number 31-0001488. Both the model number and serial number are hand written on the manufacturer plate on the rear of this pc. It has dual 5 1/4 " floppy drives and 640k memory. The memory board is labelled Morrow Zenith.This is an interesting portable having a rom monitor for the built-in modem, what appears to be a built-in calculator (haven't been able to get the calculator button to do anything). Date can be changed in the monitor by pressing a button also. Boots MS-DOS fine. I read in Stan Veit's book that Zenith licensed this technology from Morrow. Does anyone have any further info on this unit or better yet a operation manual? Thanks- Marty Mintzell

27 years, 2 months

Rabbit 286 ????

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

Today I bought three portable PCs marked "Rabbit 286". They're about the size of a large lunch box and have a keyboard that fastens against one side. When you remove the keyboard it uncovers a gas plasma screen. There are slots for two 3.5 drives on the right hand side and a door on the left side. Opening the door exposes the back of several expansion card slots. There's a label on the bottom that says "Chicony Electronics Co.", "Model 286G-A", "Gas Plasma Display" and "640H x 400W Dots". One almost works, one is dead and the third one is somewhere in between. Does anyone know anything about these? I'm wondering if it's possible to put a small 386 or 486 mother board in these. Joe

27 years, 2 months

You've got to be pulling my chain... (Ethernet)

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

That's exactly where I got it from. Now, I was just thinking that in 1973, that would be a huge space, the size (or larger) than hard drives! So you could transmit your entire hard drive in a second, barring server stuff and hard drive speed. It sounded strange to me. ;-) Ciao, Tim D. Hotze -----Original Message----- From: James Willing <jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Saturday, April 11, 1998 1:06 AM Subject: Re: You've got to be pulling my chain... (Ethernet) >On Fri, 10 Apr 1998, Tony Duell wrote: > >> > >> > Sorry, but this seems crazy to me. Was Ethernet invented in 1973? Was it >> > 10MBps then? >> >> I somehow doubt it! > >>From the tagline of Bob Metcalfe's regular column in Infoworld... > (this should explain all...) > >"Technology pundit Bob Metcalfe invented Ethernet in 1973 and founded 3Com >in 1979, and today he specializes in the Internet..." > >...and just in case that does not work for you, I have a copy of the >original joint specification document buried in the archives somewhere. >B^} > >-jim >--- >jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com >The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw >Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 >

27 years, 2 months

You've got to be pulling my chain... (Ethernet)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Dunno when the 8X305 came out. I've seen them, and got the data sheets, <but never used one. Well after the 2901! it's far more complex. It was preceded by the 8x300 and the 3x305 was somthing like 1979-81. Allison

27 years, 2 months

eBay = Mkt Value? (was: my objection to recent postings)

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 09:35 AM 4/10/98 -0700, you wrote: >> As to whether prices on eBay represent what experienced, knowledgeable >> collectors will pay, that's another story. > >Exactly my point. I'd rather base valuations on what experienced, >knowledgeable collectors will pay. People who have a better idea of how My point too. There's a big difference in "market value" and "collector value". (Don't believe me, buy a "collectible" plate sometime, or coins >from a TV shopping channel.) Market value is what the average idiot will pay, at auction or elsewhere. Collector value is what an informed collector will pay, based on rarity, significance, etc. I've got books on disney, hot wheels/corgi/dinky/matchbox/etc., glassware, collectible board games, and so on (used to be in the business, kinda) and I am often amazed at what things sell for, at auction, at antique shows, in stores, as well as at garage sales, flea markets, and so on. Heck, Hake's is one of the biggest value setters in the US of pricing on Disney, politicals, advertising, and so on stuff, but still, a lot of collectors (me included) think their prices are inflated. Market value versus collector value. >> That's a tough call. Do you sell it to someone who will use it and >> appreciate it for what you paid for it, or do you put it on eBay so you can >> pay the property taxes? I haven't got an answer to that one yet. > >I do...sell it to me :) Ah, but... Say I'm a newbie to the group (and don't take this personally!), how do I know that if I sell you my //c LCD screen for $20, I won't see it listed on eBay next week with a starting bid of $400? And even though I know you wouldn't do that, I still not that easy. As an example, I've got two SE/30 motherboards, brand new, in the Apple Service boxes. I know some people here expressed interest in them, so I should probably offer them here, cheaply. The problem is, they're actually part of the Mac stuff allocated to my girlfriend's school. If I sold them on eBay, I might get enough to buy a complete, working IIci system to put into the classroom for the kids to use. What do I do? And even if they weren't going to the school, I wasn't able to take my dad and niece to Disneyland this year because I can't afford it. If I sold them on eBay, that would pay for part of a cheap trip to Dland. Like I said, tough call. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 2 months

Re.: How about a weekly FS/T list? (was Sale postings to Classiccmp)

by rcini＠email.msn.com

Here's an idea... How about making Friday the "classifieds section" day? You know, like the local newspaper. Although classifieds appear in newspspers daily, it seems that one day has many more than the others. This would reduce the daily FS/T traffic, but still enable people to trade stuff. I see ClassicCmp as a great resource, not only for information not available elsewhere, but also for physical equipment and software which is obviously no longer made or supported by the manufacturer. I also think that those on this list should give (and be given) first crack at something that one of us has for sale. We all know eachother, have dealth with eachother previously, and for the most part, know that "the check is good." Trading should continue, but maybe it should be aggregated and done on one day. Maybe Monday's the right day...maybe Friday. I don't know. Just my $0.02. Happy Holidays to all. Rich Cini/WUGNET <nospam_rcini(a)msn.com> (remove nospam_ to use) ClubWin! Charter Member (6) MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking ============================================

27 years, 2 months

Thoughts about a Classiccmp private newsgroup

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 08:49 AM 4/10/98 -0400, you wrote: > Scanning today''s messages gave me an idea. I don't know if this has >been discussed before, but I don't remember it being discussed. It has. It comes up every now and then on every mailing list. What usually happens is that those who want a newsgroup go off a create a newsgroup, and the ones who can't access or don't like newsgroups stick to the e-mail list, and the real die-hards follow both, cross-posting stuff all the time. > ClubWin! Charter Member (6) ^ I am not a number, I am a free man! --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 2 months

You've got to be pulling my chain... (Ethernet)

by peacock＠simconv.com

> From: Tony Duell [mailto:ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk] > > Actually, it's all discrete TTL chips (74S181 ALUs, 74161's for the > program counter, etc). The KMC11 and DMR11 (a later version That's right 'ls181, a crude bit slice ALU. I remember there was a way to download microcode directly, the RSX driver supported it. None of those cool 2900 series slices were around yet, maybe even the 8x305 was still on the drawing board. I still have the AMD 2901 design book, heavy going but it tells you everything you ever want to know about building a CPU from scratch. I don't suppose anyone has some kind of system built from 2901 bit slices? Roll your own microcoded instruction sets? Jack Peacock

27 years, 2 months

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test-drb April 1998