<Actually, the PDT 11/150 ran quite well once they came out. I ran one fo
<three years under RT11 with FB and multiterminal support. It's biggest
<problem was comm overruns/underruns because the I/O was all handled by a
<8080 (or was it an 8085). The 11/130 used DECtapes and the 11/110 was
<downloaded.
It used an 8085, and the manual stated the limits of the serial ports.
However if the correct handshake was used it could run pretty fast.
<The biggest problem with the PDT was the price, the fact it was not
<easily expandable by third parties (no Qbus) and slow.
Such was the ways of DEC at the time. Then again what would be added?
<DEC repeated some of the same mistakes in the PC line in the 80's. (no
<QBUS on the Pro, special i/o drivers, non-standard OS version).
The pro used a better form factor than Qbus, otherwise it would have been
huge. If you needed Q there was always the ba11 series boxen. POS on the
other hand was strange.
Allison
<There was a small PDP-11 about the size of a MicroVax 2000. It was
<called the PDT. It had an 11/03 CPU, 64KB, 8" floppy (RX01), and some
It was about twice the size of the VS2000. I have one.
As to static sensitivity mine is quite good and most I know of didn't
have a heat problem. What I have encounterd was system with the fans
replaced with quieter low volume fans that didn't do the job.
Allison
Does anyone know William Donzelli's e-mail address?
Donzelli, are you out there?
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>I am much more bothered by conmans (read my other reply here). I collect
for
>the historical inportance and for the history of design of old electronics
and
>for what they meant in the lives of millions of persons. I don't even care
if
>something is working or not. It is going to end up behing glass anyway. I
I find you sick. Very sick. Keep computers functional, working, cosmetics
should come second. I'm sure that we could find a TRS-80 model 1 CASE
somewhere for you.
>can't possibly USE the more than 140 historical computer I have in my
YES YOU COULD.
>collection and don't even switch them on. I don't collect them for making
them
>work but to display them and help to teach children and people about their
>importance in the hsitory of humanity. The appearance is (nearly)
everything
>to me and so a mumeric keypad where it should not be is a GREAT bother to
me.
So what the hell are you bitching about? You got what you asked for, and
now, it's not a great bother to you. So what the %$&( if it's got a
numeric keypad? It's not a GREAT bother to you, but you've been a GREAT
bother to Cord and everyone else on the list.
Tim D. Hotze
> I've seen a small MicroVAX, but was there a small portable PDP-11?
There was a small PDP-11 about the size of a MicroVax 2000. It was
called the PDT. It had an 11/03 CPU, 64KB, 8" floppy (RX01), and some
serial ports. RT-11 was the only supported OS as the floppy took a
special driver. It was a real lemon, we had a few, proved to be very
unreliable as they would constantly overheat. They were also
susceptible to static discharge on the case, so they didn't work too
well in carpeted offices.
Jack Peacock
Enrico Tedeschi <e.tedeschi(a)ndirect.co.uk> wrote:
>I can't believe that all this is happening and that there are no honest people
>in this list that are letting this happen withour saying anything.
OK Enrico, you asked for it. I'm going to say something.
The recollection I have of what happened (from reading the original
flamefest on the list) is that you and Cord were swapping computers,
with you expecting a TRS-80 with Level I BASIC. And that is what you
got, only when you got it you found that it had a numeric keypad,
unlike the original stock TRS-80. So...no, I don't understand what
you're so upset about, except that you got something that didn't look
like what you expected based on your preconceived notions of what a
"TRS-80 with Level I BASIC" should look like.
Well, as it happens I don't know whether Radio Shack ever took to
manufacturing all Model 1 TRS-80s with numeric keypads after some
date, or whether the numeric keypad was included with the Level II
BASIC upgrade (don't think so, at least not always), or whether it was
available without a Level II BASIC upgrade. So I'd have been
surprised by that keypad too, but for all I know it could have come
>from the factory like that or been upgraded by its original owner, who
wanted to do lots of numeric data entry on a Level I BASIC system.
Really I think there's a valuable lesson to be learned here, namely
when trading in old computers it's a good idea to do some research and
have some idea what the scope of possible configurations is, so that
if you are buying you will have some idea what sort of questions to
ask to find out just what the seller is selling. Or if you are
selling, so you will have some idea of what you are selling.
Don't count on the seller knowing what's important to you, or even
where what he's got fits in that scope of configurations -- he may
not. Even if he's another computer collector and/or familiar with
that manufacturer's equipment, he may not know -- the sorts of
questions I read (and even some of those I write) tell me that most of
us have a lot to learn about these old machines, and none of us know
everything about all of them.
And even with all that in mind, expect some surprises!
For example, a while back I bought a couple of HP 9825s from some guy
in Southern California. Looking at the HP Calculator Museum web pages
and some of my old HP test/measurement catalogs, I expected that one
of them (the 9825B I think) would have a "computer" keyboard with
full-travel keys. I didn't bother asking. Surprise, when it arrived
both had the older clicky desktop-calculator keyboard of the 9825A. I
pointed this out to the seller and he didn't know, though he has seen
9825s with the full-travel keys. Maybe it was an A that got
field-upgraded to a B? We don't know, and I didn't really see any
point in getting bent out of shape about it -- I got what I wanted,
learned something, and now I have a good excuse to get another one!
-Frank McConnell
Doug Yowza <yowza(a)yowza.com> wrote:
>Which one is that? I remember the Teraks being fairly small, and I think
>I've seen a small MicroVAX, but was there a small portable PDP-11?
The Terak main unit is about 18" x 12" x 8" DxWxH, the disk drive is the
same form but about 5 1/2" tall. I remember DEC's MiniMINC, a white
11/03-ish machine roughly the same size as the Terak setup.
- John
Jefferson Computer Museum <http://www.threedee.com/jcm>
On Apr 13, 0:06, Allison J Parent wrote:
> <Which one is that? I remember the Teraks being fairly small, and I thin
> <I've seen a small MicroVAX, but was there a small portable PDP-11?
>
> I have an 11/23, 256k ram, dlv11j and MRV11 in a ba11va shoebox.
> The floppy (RX02) is about 4 times the volume of the CPU!
General Robotics made a single 8" RX02-compatible floppy in a box barely bigger
than the drive itself, complete with carrying handle. A company I once worked
for had one for field servoids. AFAIR it was a standard SA800 50-pin interface
to connect to their own dual-height RXV controller.
I've got an 11/03 (M7270) with MXV11-A and a Baydel dual-height F311 (like an
RXV11, but interfaces to SA800 drives) with a 4-slot dual-width (not quad)
backplane. It's missing box/PSU and floppy, though, so it's not terribly
functional ATM. I'm sure someone has built something even smaller with a
Falcon or similar.
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Dept. of Computer Science
University of York
The Photo Gallery is now open on the Vintage Computer Festival web page.
Photos from the exhibit hall of VCF 1.0 as well as the photos of the
unveiling of the prototype Sol 20 by Lee Felsenstein and Bob Marsh are on
display. The pictures show what VCF 1.0 was like and give you an
indicator of what to expect at VCF2.
Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't blame me...I voted for Satan.
Coming in September...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
[Last web page update: 04/13/98]
In a message dated 98-04-12 19:13:50 EDT, you write:
<< Max Eskin wrote:
> I have had too many 3.5" disks go bad, some my own, some not, not
> to ask why. I mean, is it just a property of 3.5" disks to be
> unreliable, or is something else? Are there any "industrial quality"
> drives/disks that are reasonably reliable? >>
grrr, i hate 3.5 disks! they seem unreliable. i have software on old 5.25
disks that have lasted longer than data on 1.44 floppies. could it be the
density of the data on the disk that makes them unreliable? just a guess.
david
Greets:
I have a customer that is looking for a modem for his Apple ][gs.
Admittadly, I don't know a whole lot about this area and some posts
in the newsgroups haven't turned up much either. Anyway, I am
wondering if some of you Apple experts could give me some more
information on the types of modems available for the GS and any other
pertinent information... such as, what type of interface is needed,
software to use on the GS (terminal, etc.) and anything else you feel
like throwing in.
Also, I have several old Hayes 2400 baud external modems.... would
these be compatible with the Apple ][gs? What else would I need to
get this modem setup on that system?
Any help in getting this guy set up would be appreciated.
Sincerely,
CORD COSLOR
--
___________________________________________________
| Cord G. Coslor : archive(a)navix.net |\
| Deanna S. Wynn : deannasue(a)navix.net | |
|---------------------------------------------------| |
| http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/4395 | |
|---------------------------------------------------| |
| PO Box 308 - Peru, NE - 68421 - (402) 872- 3272 | |
|___________________________________________________| |
\____________________________________________________\|
<Which one is that? I remember the Teraks being fairly small, and I thin
<I've seen a small MicroVAX, but was there a small portable PDP-11?
I have an 11/23, 256k ram, dlv11j and MRV11 in a ba11va shoebox. that's
a 11x13x4 inch box with 4 dual slots. I use it with a tu58 dectape in
a box of the same size small and light system running rt11. Often the
same box can be found with a 11/2, two MXV11 nultifunction cards and a
RX02 controller. The floppy (RX02) is about 4 times the volume of the
CPU!
Allison
Please everyone, do not echo that nasty subject line.
<IIRC, the Tandy modifications were the L2 basic board, 16K RAM, Numeric
<keypad, and the lower case mod. All others were 3rd party. I could make a
<slight case that 3rd party mods are slightly less original, but I'm not
<going to press the point. I don't think Tandy ever offered a *2 speedup.
The *2 speed up was not RS, however the concession was that machine
modified with those in for repair would be serviced at normal rates if
the mod was unrelated to the problem. If a new logic was required do to
extensive damage the pricing was different (expensive).
<They may well have offered various fixes to the cassette interface - I
<don't know.
They did! The best one was a little board with a 4040/4001 on it.
<There were many 3rd party mods. I've seen a M1 with 48K RAM in the
<keyboard unit. I've even seen one (much hacked) power up with a CASS?
<prompt. Yes, it was running M3 BASIC.
there were some rally nice mods too.
Allison
Wanted:
I have an Okidata Okimate 20 that presently has a Commodore
"plug-n-print" interface in it and I'm in need of the IBM/Centronics
"plug-n-print" interface for it. If someone has an IBM fitted Oki 20 but
wants a Commodore interface (not likely) I'd like to evenly swap
interfaces or if someone has just an interface for it for IBM I'd like
to trade them something or buy it directly.
Anyone? I need this for use with my portable PS/2 P70 when I go on jobs
or such and need to print things of importance.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Russ Blakeman
RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144
Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991
Email: rhblake(a)bbtel.com or rhblake(a)bigfoot.com
Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/
ICQ # 1714857
* Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers*
--------------------------------------------------------------------
<Hmmm... No flmes intended (and I hope we can agree to differ on this),
Same here. Of the 25+ machines in my room all are operable at a moments
notice some requiring being pluged in or a terminal plugged in.
<but I really can't see the point in collecting non-working computers _and
<keeping them that way_. Sure I get a lot of non-working machines, but the
<first thing I do is attempt to find a technical manual or scheamatic and
<repair them. Working machines are a lot more interesting. The case
Same here. Though I do have some that while now are working and stored
SBCs are less interesting to others. But a non-working system when
aquired is always tested, fixed if possible then I decide if I care to
have it in a location for easy use and access. If not I tend to pull it
out and periodically run it to insure it stays operable.
<I collect for many reasons, amongst them :
<
<1) The fun and mental challenge of restoring/repairing them. Fault
<finding can be interesting, you know
Same here, good mental exercise and what I learn can help others.
<2) Finding out what the machines I grew up dreaming of were really like.
<And the machines that came before them. I could never afford them when
<new, now I can play with them
Big time! Some were way out of my reach back when.
<3) Doing things that you can't do on a modern machine. Many classics,
<even minicomputers nd workstations are simple enough to understand
<completely. It's fun to rewrite microcode. It's fun to trace data through
<an ALU into the registers using a logic probe and 'scope. It's fun to
<debug a floppy controller at gate level. And it's fun to boot a machine
<from paper tape after toggling in the bootstrap from the panel
I'll add that some of my older machines are working hardware in that they
support a project or run software that I've not duplicated on the PC for
performance or usability.
<4) Tracing the history of certain features. To take a trivial example,
<IOBYTE at location 3 on CP/M can be traced back to the Intellec MCS8i. It
<was at location 3 on that machine (with the same format of 4 2-bit
<fields) as locations 0-2 were reserved for the reset jump instruction, so
<this was the first free RAM location.
Or interfaces like SCSI when it was SASI. Or 8" floppies.
Allison
<I have had too many 3.5" disks go bad, some my own, some not, not
<to ask why. I mean, is it just a property of 3.5" disks to be
<unreliable, or is something else? Are there any "industrial quality"
<drives/disks that are reasonably reliable?
It's something your doing as I've found 3.5" media to be about as
reliable as I can ask for meaning they are amoung the best. Then
again I also have 20year old 8" media that's still in use. There is no
such thing as industrial strength drives or media.
Heat and dirt are the biggest killers. All my systems use sony or teac
drive as they are a bit better constructed and were available. However I
ahve a 19$ drive that has been in use for about five years and refuses to
quit! Im not timid about blowing out the dust and cleaning vents either!
Allison
In a message dated 98-04-12 15:33:58 EDT, you write:
<< It seems to me that there is a Historical solution for this problem, that I
gather worked very well in the far distant past.
Enrico has become SUCH a pain, and it seems like most of the traffic of
late is a result of his insistence not to let this drop. While he may or
may not have a valid problem, I no longer care, and based on the way he's
acting I would suspect the problem is on his end. Because of all of this
I'd like to propose a rather drastic solution >>
I'm tired of hearing him whine like a little kindergartner.
Welcome to my killfile, Enrico! *PLONK*
Lets get back to topic!
Just another reminder that many email programs have killfiles and mail
filters. Every time there is a spate of off-topic flaming or otherwise
unnecessary verbage in this list, my list of mail filters grows a little
longer. I now get almost no messages with profanity. It's also
possible to filter out any individual who goes over the line in your
estimation.
I think this preferable to having additional "private lists". Of
course, individuals can have correspondence with whomever they
wish at any time, using personal mailing lists.
Dave
I'm only going to say this once. I will make no replies to this post
outside of private E-mail, and I will accept no arguments from those
involved in the current flame-war that even HINT at attempted justification
for their cluttering of the list.
I have changed receipt of CLASSICCMP to 'ack' (non-digest) on my end so
that I may easily killfile/filter the entire childish flame-war polluting
this list, which the perpetrators of seem unwilling to take to private
E-mail as should have happened when the thing first lit up.
I am tired of reading about who's right, who's wrong, who's a con-artist
and who's not, and who's doing what to whom and for how much. I am here for
one purpose; to share knowledge of old hardware and software, specifically
DECish stuff. Others, I'm going to assume, are here for the purpose of
sharing knowledge of the systems they have interest in.
I do not believe that anyone is here to share a flame-war. If the
flame-war traffic continues in the form of list postings, I will begin
filtering by author rather than by subject thread. This could cause me to
miss something I value, or to fail to respond to a question that I could
answer, but at this point I feel that risk is justified.
Read my typing. TAKE YOUR STUPID FLAME-WAR TO E-MAIL! PLEASE!
Thank you.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272)
(Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin(a)jps.net)
"Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own
human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."
Folks,
I'm still digesting all the responces from Allison, Tony, and
Pete... but I wanted to thank you guys for satiating my
curiosity. I'm clueless, but not thankless. :-)
--jmg
Sorry, but this has been bugging me for quite some time. In Star Trek, they
use "Isolinear" based memory circuts to store information in both the short
and long term. So, from the looks of it, it's some kind of crystal, and can
transmit it's data very quickly, and with no moving parts, so I'm guessing
that it's similiar to today's RAM. Now, for the hard part: It can hold
entire encyclopedia's in tiny amounts. In one episiode, they had nanites,
little robot-bugs that could hold "gigabytes of information," and were
microscopic. Furthermore, in some episodes, they find Chodak and T'Kon
ruins, between 900,000 to 700,000 years old, with half or more of the data
intact.
Was crystaline storage ever attempted like this? Is it possible?
Feasable?
Thanks,
Tim D. Hotze
>First stop it. Second, if you didn't understand it I believe the comment
>was sarcastic IE: we could find you a trs-80 case but since you've been
>such a pain it has become highly unlikely.
Kind of right. I was saying that if it was REALLY NEEDED and you couldn't
ignore a row of 5x4 keys or so on your TRS-80, that there's probably someone
who has either a spare case, or a will to trade their keypad-less TRS for
yours.
>There was no offer to supply one and there was no agreement save for you
>trying to instigate one.
Exactly. However, seeing as it will make a fellow collector happy, should I
stumble across the model you mention, I'll tell you, and probably pay for
half or more of the shipping.
>A trs-80 with a keypad (one of the earliest options!) is historically
>valid. Also historically valid was lower case mod, 2x processor speed up
>and several different ones applied to the cassette read. This is an
>athoritive statment as I was in the employ for TANDY from 1976 through
>1979 and did consulting for another year after that.
Exactly. For instance, I'm getting a A2+ from Jeff Kaneko. At first, I
just knew that I was getting a II+. That was it. Since then, I've been
deligeted to find that it's 64K, has a DA/AD converter, serial cards, a
Pocket Rocket language card, etc. installed. I asked for an Apple II+. I'm
getting one. Sometimes, it's better than what you wanted, sometimes it's
worse, sometimes it's just different.
>If you say you wanted the "first trs80" you should have specified one
>that must have the 170069A PWB, and no mods/option installed. That
>would have gotten you a 4k L1 machine in the first production series
>(under serial number 20,000 or so). You would have had to clarify if
>serial number greater than 0 or 1 was acceptable. Your lack of
>knowledge of RADIO SHACK computers and how they were sold from
>introduction is your loss.
As well as your apparant lack of flexability, and poor eMail writing skills.
In any case, let us "BAD PEOPLE" who "don't care if we've got a conman
on our hands" be bad people with a conman on our hands and STOP BITCHING
ABOUT IT!!! Listen, you didn't get what you wanted. You did get what you
asked for. Cord's been on this list a LOT longer than you have. If we
annoy you, then unsubscribe. END OF STORY.
Tim D. Hotze
