On Apr 20, 14:06, Max Eskin wrote:
> Could someone tell me what the configuration of individual gates
> is (one of them, at least) for binary addition (or provide an EASY
> TO FIND reference)?
This sounds like a homework question... Well, I suppose all classic computers
have adders in them. You want to look up "half-adder" and "full-adder". A
half-adder adds two binary digits, to produce a sum output and a carry output.
A full adder is, not surprisingly, two half adders, wired so that it also has
a carry-in. You can make a half-adder from an XOR gate and an AND gate, though
that's not exactly how they're usually implemented. How to make a multi-bit
adder with look-ahead carry is left as an exercise for the reader :-)
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Dept. of Computer Science
University of York
<Boy I'd pay $100 for a working PDP11/23 with RL02's (at least one workin
<and bootable).
<
<Bill
get out a scrounge around. 11/23s are common as house flies. you should
be able to find one for free that is usable. The common problem is you
can find just the cpu box (cpu, ram, IO, maybe disk controller) but no
drives.
The thing is with RX02s for $100 is possible, with RL02s no way. RL02
drives used go for more than that alone. I'm looking for a RL02 drive
myself as I only have one, they are scarce and expensive.
SCSI boards and eithernet cards same thing, expensive. CPU boards, maybe
$20-40.
The problem is most cards compatable with an 11/23 are also compatable
with most of the qbus VAX systems other than memory(usable but far too
slow and limiting in other ways.).
Allison
Could someone tell me what the configuration of individual gates
is (one of them, at least) for binary addition (or provide an EASY
TO FIND reference)?
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No connection to this person whatsoever. Thought this might be of
interest to some.
>
>I have an Adam computer that I want to sell. It is in perfect working
>condition. All the original equipment including the box is intact.
>Serious offers can find me at
>
>mtruman(a)usa.net
>
>Mike
>
>
>-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
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-Bill Richman
bill_r(a)inetnebr.com
http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r
(Home of the COSMAC Elf Simulator!)
>
>
> <Boy I'd pay $100 for a working PDP11/23 with RL02's (at least one workin
> <and bootable).
> <
> <Bill
>
> get out a scrounge around. 11/23s are common as house flies. you should
> be able to find one for free that is usable. The common problem is you
> can find just the cpu box (cpu, ram, IO, maybe disk controller) but no
> drives.
Up there maybe... down here in NJ they're rare. Sun boxes are
around (Sparc), I even saw DECstations, RS6000's but no good looking
Vaxes or 11's. I think the area scrapped most of 'em 4 years ago.
At this weekend's Trenton Fair (which used to have
8's, 11's and Vaxes -- nothing below a Microvax chassis...).
And this was a big DEC area until the late 80's. I worked it for years.
>
> The thing is with RX02s for $100 is possible, with RL02s no way. RL02
> drives used go for more than that alone. I'm looking for a RL02 drive
> myself as I only have one, they are scarce and expensive.
>
> SCSI boards and eithernet cards same thing, expensive. CPU boards, maybe
> $20-40.
>
> The problem is most cards compatable with an 11/23 are also compatable
> with most of the qbus VAX systems other than memory(usable but far too
> slow and limiting in other ways.).
>
> Allison
>
I turned down an 11/34 with RL02 for $25.00 four years ago because the
OS's weren't easy to come by and the boxes were larger than I could
transport in my compact car (at the time I didn't have my good old
DECwagon available).
Ah @!#$%^&. I could sure use it now.
This seemed to be the year of the $10 MacII at the show. I picked
up some Mac stuff for fun... but I'd love to populate my VT103 out.
Bill
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| 908-389-3592 | Save computing history, give an old geek old hardware. |
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I made a small neural net, non-learning, in Visual Basic (hey! it's
easy!), available at alt.ne.mediaone.net/zeus334/neural.zip.
Also, there was just a short segment on TLC on truck collecting.
Very interesting. Maybe I'll collect old trucks AND old computers!
This was talking about a new englander who collected big trucks.
His favorite was a chain drive 1932 german truck...
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This is the case for the april early birds from what I saw last year.
As the season progresses (MIT is every month) the mix changes.
< He also had an 11/23 he wanted to sell for $100 and _wouldn't_
< budge. He told me they were 'classic' computers and could
If it were an 11/20 or 11/05 it's collectable.
Numb is correct. 11/23s are common as house flies and though they are very
classic and somewhat desireable for pdp-11 hackers he's out of his mind.
Last year there was someone there doing same and I ended up taking it home
for free as he couldn't bring it back. Now consider this he was offering
an 11/23 complete with RX02 and 2meg memory, plenty of serial IO and TWO
complete copies of RT-11v5, two sets of diagnostics disks and two RT11
doc sets.
If he parted it out and sold it to one of the used DEC resellers he might
get 100$ for the peices total.
<PS - I would have paid up to ~$20 for the 11/23, but $100?????
thats about right IF it's at least a complete CPU/mem/io/disk! With some
software and known operating $50 may not be out of line. more than that
it better be pristine, FULL COMPLETE DOCS and actually running.
Allison
If the modem is the thing w/ 5 pin DIN socket, I have one.
What is Data General's number?
> does it have the built in modem? That's the only option I don't have
for
>mine. Also, if you could gently remove the disk drive buttons and send
them
>my way, I'd be appriciative. Mine broke off.
>
> -spc (You might want to call Data General and see if they have
replacement
> LCD screens, or at least where you might get some)
>
>
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On 15 Apr 98 at 1:05, Tony Duell wrote:
> [IBM 5150 cassette port]
>
> > I was thinking along the lines of an audio interface of some kind. From the
> > above it seems possible, hooked to a synth, unless speed would be a problem.
>
> Well, audio output (single voice) would be trivial. After all, it was the
> same signal that drove the speaker (well, there was an extra gate in the
> speaker path).
>
> Other than that, it probably wouldn't be that useful...
>
> I wonder how hard it would be to convince the original IBM Async card's
> current loop interface to talk to a MIDI device... _Might_ need a change
> of Xtal or a strangely wired jumper. I will look at the schematics
> sometime...
>
> Did any of the clones of the Async card have the current loop interface?
> For that matter, did anyone ever use it for anything?
>
> -tony
>
When it comes to the asynch / synch interfacing I'm out of my depth. It's
something I've been going to study up on tho. I've had an old Phillips Micom
WP for some time which apparently was capable of communication protcols
interfacing and I've wanted to retrieve some data on it , altho now I might be
able to pull it off the 8'' disks with the TRS mod ll . Another project in
waiting : ^ )).
In exploring the programs on the 5150's Hard-card I found two small programs
>from the same company (PLUS) that made the hardcard. One was light.com and the
other sound.com parameters were light= on/ off , and sound = on / off . Since
the h-c itself had no external connectors, I'm wondering whether these are for
the cassette port. This 5150 was also configured for 2 serial and 2 parallel
which would square with the serial / para on the int.modem and the printer port
on the Herc. leaving one serial unaccounted for. The only other connector is
the f 37 pin ext. on the fdd controller card. ( for an external drive ? ) QUE's
Upgrading and Repairing P.C.'s v.5 (BTW an excellent book with the most
extensive info on PS2 s I've seen -V.5 only) doesn't mention this port tho it
has a lot of detail on the 5150 and adapter cards.
ciao larry
lwalker(a)interlog.com
This is bizarre...
This RSX was origionally in an 11/73. I had it in an 11/83.
BOO was running REAL slow. I interrupted it after a 5-hour run.
I swapped the KDJ11-B with an 11-A, reloaded, and now BOO
is running at a faster pace, it hits the drive every 10 seconds.
I just now started it.
Maybe there's a bug in RSX, or my 83 is acting bizarre?
-------
On Apr 20, 6:51, Daniel A. Seagraves wrote:
> [Copy with BRU and it...]
>
> How do I do that? BRU is here, but when I tried to get it to go,
> it said PROTECTION VIOLATION.
I think that means you're trying to do something to a disk that is mounted when
it shouldn't be, or you've not given the right switch, or given one that's
inappropriate. If I'm right, I think you want to be copying from a mounted
running DUx: to an unmounted but loaded DL0:, which BRU will want to
re-initialise. If so, the command is something like BRU DU0:/MOU DL0:/INI, or
safer would be to run BRU and enter the disk names and switches at the prompts.
Sorry about all the "if"s but I did warn you I'm not an RSX expert :-)
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Dept. of Computer Science
University of York
This is the first time I've been to an electronics flea market, so I
don't know how it was, but I was disappointed. I came late, and about
1/2 the stuff was oscilloscopes, another 1/4 was Mac CPUs, and an
8th was PC network cards. Everything was priced at or above market
value (almost). I will still go next time, though.
There were a bunch of "IBM RT" units. These were enormous PS/2 like
things. What were they?
I could have gotten a Zenith XT laptop for $10, but I opted for a
free Data General One being used as a wheelchock. It's in good
condition, but the LCD is smashed. I think I will hang it on the wall.
Does anyone have any ideas what I should do with the rest of the
machine? Does anyone have replacement LCDs?
PS. I would have gotten a shrinkwrapped copy of MacOS 6.0.7 and A/UX,
but the guy changed his mind about selling it.
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Two questions: a) what is a channel F?
b) What is the ISBN# for the haddock book?
>I also got another Fairchild channel F brand new and apparently never
used.
>And a Laser 128 with power supply and external disk drive. Oh and a
copy of
>the Haddock.
>Francois
>-------------------------------------------------------------
>Visit the Sanctuary at: http://www.pclink.com/fauradon
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Daniel A. Seagraves <DSEAGRAV(a)toad.xkl.com>
>To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
><classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
>Date: Sunday, April 19, 1998 8:18 PM
>Subject: Strange 11/83 behaviour...
>
>
>>This is bizarre...
>>This RSX was origionally in an 11/73. I had it in an 11/83.
>>BOO was running REAL slow. I interrupted it after a 5-hour run.
>>I swapped the KDJ11-B with an 11-A, reloaded, and now BOO
>>is running at a faster pace, it hits the drive every 10 seconds.
>>I just now started it.
>>Maybe there's a bug in RSX, or my 83 is acting bizarre?
>>-------
>>
>
>
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I'm cross posting this here as I know someone here knows what this guy
needs and can do a direct email to him about his problem. There may not
be anyone that knows what he needs and he might be tempted to "throw
out" the equipment if he doesn't get a response.
--------------------------------------------------------------
Rich Gough <regough(a)connectexpress.com>
Seattle, WA USA - Monday, April 20, 1998 at 02:21:27
I have a bunch of 8" diskettes, CP/M format over 10 years
old. Were made on a Lobo Max-80, now in my mom's basement.
Replaced clock battery, still couldn't get it to boot last
year when I tried to start it for the first time in years.
Anyone know of a place in Pittsburgh, PA that can copy 8"
diskettes onto 3.5"? Thanks, will be going there in a
couple of weeks. Rich
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Russ Blakeman
RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144
Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991
Email: rhblake(a)bbtel.com or rhblake(a)bigfoot.com
Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/
ICQ UIN #1714857
AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN"
* Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers*
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Ive had this posted in the past but these are really getting in my way:
*Tektronix 7612D programmable digitizer (scope w/o a screen) with two
7A16A plugins. No manuals or cables but it appears to be in terrific
shape otherwise. $150 plus shipping or will consider trades.
*Kontron KLA64 64 channel logic analyser - 2 complete units, cables,
manuals, covers, software, etc. They also have an optional unit
installed internally. Includes Axiom video printer. All items go as a
package - $325 plus shipping. Sorry no trades and will not separate.
Total weight about 160 lbs for everything.
Can email detailed info to those interested. I bought these in an
auction lot and the above pricing is what I have into them. I bought the
auction lot to primarily obtain a digital oscilloscope for my shop but
the above items are R&D oriented and realy have no use in my repair
shop. Both are still supported by repair, calibration and parts outfits
as well as the manufacturers. I have sources for the manual for the Tek
7612D and plugins as well so you don't need to be concerrned that you'll
not be able to work it without a manual. The manuals for the Kontrons is
very detailed and is from setup and use to parts and adjustment.
I'm trying to be as discrete as possible about posting these and I'm
sure some people are tired of seeing it come back up but there are new
people to the list that may not know of them and possibly be interested.
Please reply direct to me, not to the list.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Russ Blakeman
RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144
Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991
Email: rhblake(a)bbtel.com or rhblake(a)bigfoot.com
Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/
ICQ UIN #1714857
AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN"
* Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers*
--------------------------------------------------------------------
On Apr 19, 20:12, Daniel A. Seagraves wrote:
> Subject: Oh, s**t. Someone tell me I'm wrong...
OK :-) You're wrong :-)
> To talk to the RL02, I had to UNLoad the DY: driveer and LOAd teh DL: driver.
> This means that RL support isn't in the montior.
Not exactly, it may just mean that the driver isn't loaded by default. None of
the drivers are "in" the monitor, they're all loaded (some with the system
image, some not).
> Since I'm switching boot
> devices to one not in the monitor, I have to re-SYSGEN RSX-11M.
> But, I don't have Sysgen or HRC, so I'm screwed, right?
Not necessarily. SYSGEN recreates the whole system from the source code. All
you need to do (assuming the original was built with suitable options) is to
get it to reset its pointers, in a manner of speaking. You won't have HRC
unless it's an RSX11M-plus system.
> That would be why BOO looped forever on both systems, the monitor was told to
> boot a device it had no support for.
> Does this sound correct?
I don't think so.
I'm not an expert on RSX, but I've done 4 or 5 sysgens -- though it was a few
years ago. The drivers were probably all built at the same time -- and
therefore with the same options -- as the rest of the system. Take a look at
the dates/times on the xxDRV.TSK and RSX11M.TSK files in [1,54] to be sure.
The RSX11M.SYS file should be much bigger, and have a later time, than the
RSX11M.TSK file. What you're probably seeing, is that the system was built
with a certain amount of space allocated for drivers, but only the ones
originally required are loaded with the system image by default, and to get
space for another, you need to unload one.
As for the BOOt problem, I'd guess you copied the files using PIP instead of
BRU. Is that right? If so, many of the files won't be in the same places on
the disk. That will confuse RSX, which has the disk addresses of some
essential things in the RSX11M.SYS file. (At least, I think it's that file,
it's been a while...) Also, PIP has possibly not copied the correct file size
-- by default, it discards unused blocks, ISTR. That will kill RSX11M.SYS,
which has extra blocks for the swap space. The other thing PIP won't do (by
default, unless you use the /CO switch) is to ensure that copies are
contiguous, though if you copied onto an empty disk, that probably won't be a
problem. You can tell if a file is contiguous (all the blocks together, in
sequence) by looking to see if there's a letter 'C' just before the date in a
long directory listing; .TSK and .SYS files have to be contiguous.
If you copy with BRU, it takes care of those things, and possibly leaves the
system in such a state that the next *software* boot will sort things out.
There are certain permutations of disk drivers that share boot blocks, which
saves you some of the effort of re-generating the boot setup, but I can't
remember if DU and DL are in that group.
[digs out notes]
If you use PIP, you'll need to recreate the RSX11M.SYS image on the new drive,
while still running the system from the old one:
ASN DL0:=SY:
ASN DL0:=LB:
SET /UIC=[1,54]
PIP RSX11M.sys/NV/CO/BL:<nnn>=RSX11M.TSK
where <nnn> is usually (memory size x 4) + 2. If you express that as a decimal
number, you have to enter it with a decimal point after the digits otherwise
PIP will think you mean octal. That's for a mapped system; change [1,54] to
[1,50] for unmapped.
Then you'll need to re-VMR the system, you can specify what drivers are to be
LOAded at boot time, what memory it has, etc. There's possibly a file called
SYSVMR.CMD or similar, which already has a string of commands in it to load
drivers; edit that to suit.
After you've run VMR @SYSVMR you need to software boot the new system and SAVe
it (you may need to type "G" at the prompt, and you need to SAV /WB to make it
hardware bootable).
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Dept. of Computer Science
University of York
In a message dated 98-04-19 17:15:38 EDT, you write:
<< There were a bunch of "IBM RT" units. These were enormous PS/2 like
things. What were they? >>
model numbers were 6150 and 6151. i have the desktop form factor. basically it
was a risc6000 ancestor. isa bus, but had proprietary adaptor cards with 16meg
max. ran AIX and something else. mine powers up, but i do not have the special
keyboard that's required to use it. i believe they announced in 1990 so not
quite classic yet. i can probably dig up some info at work about them if
someone REALLY wants me to.
david
> I just got myself a Diamond TrackStar Apple//-in-a-PC board. What
little
>info that I could find says that you can hook an Apple floppy drive to it.
>However, in two places, the info says that it takes a standard Apple
floppy,
>and then it says a Unidrive.
If you only have a Uni-Drive and you don't have the adapter, you can open it
up, disconnect the current cable and plug in the old cable. That's what I
did. The 19 pin cable plugs into a 20 adapter inside the drive.
-- Kirk
Just put this together.
To talk to the RL02, I had to UNLoad the DY: driveer and LOAd teh DL: driver.
This means that RL support isn't in the montior. Since I'm switching boot
devices to one not in the monitor, I have to re-SYSGEN RSX-11M.
But, I don't have Sysgen or HRC, so I'm screwed, right?
That would be why BOO looped forever on both systems, the monitor was told to
boot a device it had no support for.
Does this sound correct?
-------
Hi,
I found an Epson HC-41 today, it was aparently used for a machine tool
programmer.
Does anyone have a keyboard overlay that I could copy to replace the custom
overlay that they have on this machine?
Also i got the Floppy drive with it with instructions in Japanese. Can
anyone give some info on it?
I am also missing both power supplies (yes they work from the battery) what
are the reqirements?
As a general request, any info on that machine is welcome.
I also got another Fairchild channel F brand new and apparently never used.
And a Laser 128 with power supply and external disk drive. Oh and a copy of
the Haddock.
Francois
-------------------------------------------------------------
Visit the Sanctuary at: http://www.pclink.com/fauradon
-----Original Message-----
From: Daniel A. Seagraves <DSEAGRAV(a)toad.xkl.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Sunday, April 19, 1998 8:18 PM
Subject: Strange 11/83 behaviour...
>This is bizarre...
>This RSX was origionally in an 11/73. I had it in an 11/83.
>BOO was running REAL slow. I interrupted it after a 5-hour run.
>I swapped the KDJ11-B with an 11-A, reloaded, and now BOO
>is running at a faster pace, it hits the drive every 10 seconds.
>I just now started it.
>Maybe there's a bug in RSX, or my 83 is acting bizarre?
>-------
>
Now this is maybe a book that's worth $153.
Electronic Analog Computers (Second Edition, Hardcover)
Subtitle: D-c Analog Computers
Granino A. Korn, Ph.D. and Theresa M. Korn, M.S.
McGraw-Hill Book Company, 1956 (Original copyright 1952)
The lower-case 'c' is actually how its used in the book and the subtitle.
Here's the first couple paragraphs from the preface of the book:
D-c analog computers are relatively simple electronic devices now
commonly in use to solve a variety of problems in applied mathematics and
engineering design. The application of such computers to the simulation
of modern automatic control systems has been particularly successful; but
some acquaintance with d-c analog techniques can benefit almost any
engineer or research worker, no matter what his special field may be. A
d-c analog representation of a problem does not merely furnish needed
numerical data. It often seves as a working model which helps to close
the gap between physical intuition and exact analysis.
The continuing remarkable progress in the related fields of electronic
computers, instruments, and controls has led naturally to the preparation
of a new, completely revised edition of _Electronic Analog Computers_.
The greater part of the book has been entirely rewritten. We have
attempted to carry out our original purposes, namely
1. To acquaint research and development workers with tried methods for
the application of d-c analog computers as computing aids and
simulators, and with the possibilities and limitations of such
equipment;
2. To present a comprehensive body of up-to-date design information
on computer components and systems.
We believe that such information is of particlar interest to scientists
and engineers engaged in the development of instruments and industrial
control devices.
***
There are also pictures and descriptions in here of computers that I have
never even heard of, such as the Curtiss-Wright analog computer (CURTIAC);
the Berkeley EASE (Electronic Analog and Simulation Equipment) computer
made by the Berkeley Division of Beckman Instruments, Inc.; the Electronic
Associates Precision Analog Computing Equipment (PACE); the Goodyear
Electronic Differential Analyzer (GEDA) made by Goodyear Aircraft
Corporation; and the Reeves Electronic Analog Computer (REAC) made by
Reeves Instrument Corporation, New York City.
Also:
[A picture of a Donner Scientific analog computer]
A complete table-top d-c analog computer priced just below $1,000. The
unit comprises ten operational amplifiers, power supplies, all necessary
controls, and a removable problem board. Multipliers and function
generators are available as accessories (Donner Scientific Co.).
[A picture of a Heath analog computer]
This complete 15-amplifier machine is available as a do-it-yourself kit
for less than $1,000. The amplifier tubes are top-mounted to minimize
heating of components. The 30 coefficient-setting potentiometers are set
by comparison with a built-in precision voltage divider which is also
available for gain measurements (Heath Co.).
Wow.
The book is in excellent shape, save for the damn price written in grease
pencil on the inside cover thanks to the stupid thrift store pricer.
Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't blame me...I voted for Satan.
Coming in September...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
[Last web page update: 04/13/98]
