test-drb March 1998

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

167 participants
859 discussions

by bcw＠u.washington.edu

Well, pretty soon you're all going to get sick of hearing from me, so this will be the last listop stuff I post for a couple days. I read back through a couple weeks of archive and I'm still letting thst digest. For the time being, I've decided not to make any decisions ;) It seems a little common sense and courtesy would go a long way in bringing this list back on track. I'm not so sure that hard-core officiating would make any difference. It would probably just spawn arguments defending the honor and freedom of listmembers (heads up aspiring list operators - that's a lesson I learned the hard way). Even when I was actively moderating this list, all I looked at was whether or not subjects were about classic computers or not. If it goes a little off track, all right. If that continues for too long, a polite message to the parties involved usually retires the thread to private mail. If you think about what you're going to post to the list for a minute or two, you'll know whether or not it will be well received. Spend that time. This list is for recreation. You should be on it because you think classic computers are fun. All of you are people with a common recreational interest - there's no reason to get nasty with each other. If you don't like certain people or topics, just delete them and focus on what you like. If you can't find anything you like, maybe this is not the list for you. I'm getting off my soapbox now. Thanks to all who have sent me their input. Keep it coming. I will lecture you more next week ;) -------------------------------------------------------- Bill Whitson bcw(a)u.washington.edu Network Administrator (425) 352-5209 University of Washington - Bothell Help Desk: 2-5275

26 years, 5 months

On Flames and Mailing lists, and a bit about

by Marty＠itgonline.com

Allison, thanks for the reply. I am hoping to get full docs from the previous owner (which should answer most technical questions) but am very interested in learning about the history of the company itself. I read everything I can find on early microcomputer companies and find it fascinating reading. Thanks again- Marty Mintzell ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Re[2]: On Flames and Mailing lists, and a bit about Author: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu at internet Date: 3/19/98 5:30 PM < Vintage computer: I just became the custodian of a NorthStar Horizon < sporting four (count 'em) massive 64KB ram boards. Giving breath to < those memory boards is a four port serial board, a floppy controller < driving a 5 1/4" full height floppy drive, and a ST-506 interface hard < drive controller driving a hdd which I don't as yet have identified. < Of course it is powered by a Z-80A workhorse. This baby also sports a < lovely brushed aluminum front panel and I believe is one of the later They are good workhorse s100 machines. < production model Horizons as it has a red led on the front panel (the < Horizons I've seen in the old Byte Magazines from the late 1970's < don't have an led pictured). They all did, only the proto didn't. < Does anybody have any details on the history of NorthStar? I would < appreciate any ideas on where I might reseach their history. I built mine in early 1978 and it's celebrating it's 20th year! What do you need to know. Northstar* is long gone. The hardware refuses to die. Allison ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists2.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1998Mar19.173055.1767.32996; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 17:30:56 -0500 Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP id OAA01985; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 14:24:48 -0800 Received: from mxu3.u.washington.edu (mxu3.u.washington.edu [140.142.33.7]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP id OAA42646 for <classiccmp(a)lists.u.washington.edu>; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 14:23:19 -0800 Received: from europe.std.com (europe.std.com [199.172.62.20]) by mxu3.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.09) with ESMTP id OAA03305 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 14:23:16 -0800 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.6/BZS-8-1.0) id RAA13386; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 17:23:15 -0500 (EST) Received: by world.std.com (TheWorld/Spike-2.0) id AA06520; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 17:23:14 -0500 Message-Id: <199803192223.AA06520(a)world.std.com> Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 17:23:14 -0500 Reply-To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner(a)u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: allisonp(a)world.std.com (Allison J Parent) To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Subject: Re: Re[2]: On Flames and Mailing lists, and a bit about computer X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN

26 years, 5 months

VAXStation Terminal Help Needed

by aaron＠lafleur.wfi-inc.com

Hi, Can one of the vaxheads help me with this one.... I have a 3100 who's monitor just died and I want to use a terminal emulator for it until I replace the monitor (should be here in a few days). I know that I have to change one of the dip switches inside but which??? And what's the pinout of the serial printer port (that *is* also the terminal output, right?) ??? I'd kill to get my hands on some original documentation/manuals for either my 3100's or 3200. BTW, the 3100 in question is a 38. Thanks, Aaron

26 years, 5 months

On Flames and Mailing lists, and a bit about computer

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< Vintage computer: I just became the custodian of a NorthStar Horizon < sporting four (count 'em) massive 64KB ram boards. Giving breath to < those memory boards is a four port serial board, a floppy controller < driving a 5 1/4" full height floppy drive, and a ST-506 interface hard < drive controller driving a hdd which I don't as yet have identified. < Of course it is powered by a Z-80A workhorse. This baby also sports a < lovely brushed aluminum front panel and I believe is one of the later They are good workhorse s100 machines. < production model Horizons as it has a red led on the front panel (the < Horizons I've seen in the old Byte Magazines from the late 1970's < don't have an led pictured). They all did, only the proto didn't. < Does anybody have any details on the history of NorthStar? I would < appreciate any ideas on where I might reseach their history. I built mine in early 1978 and it's celebrating it's 20th year! What do you need to know. Northstar* is long gone. The hardware refuses to die. Allison

26 years, 5 months

On Flames and Mailing lists, and a bit about computer

by Marty＠itgonline.com

Let's all take a minute to digest a new daily affirmation/mantra: Vintage computers.... Vintage computers.... Vintage computers.... Vintage computers.... Vintage computer: I just became the custodian of a NorthStar Horizon sporting four (count 'em) massive 64KB ram boards. Giving breath to those memory boards is a four port serial board, a floppy controller driving a 5 1/4" full height floppy drive, and a ST-506 interface hard drive controller driving a hdd which I don't as yet have identified. Of course it is powered by a Z-80A workhorse. This baby also sports a lovely brushed aluminum front panel and I believe is one of the later production model Horizons as it has a red led on the front panel (the Horizons I've seen in the old Byte Magazines from the late 1970's don't have an led pictured). Does anybody have any details on the history of NorthStar? I would appreciate any ideas on where I might reseach their history. Thanks- Marty ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: On Flames and Mailing lists, and a bit about computers Author: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu at internet Date: 3/19/98 3:19 PM Here we go again......you'll never learn from past experience, will you? enrico Jack Peacock wrote: > > Enrico Tedeschi wrote: > >I feel that ANY rule in ANY organization is wrong. > > > >In the case of mailing lists or newsgroups if messages are off > topic than > >either the senders are not answered OR the recipients who do > not agree move > >away from that list or newsgroup. There no need to police and > policing: they > >should be self adjusting. History has proved time and time > again that > >centralized and fascist societies do not last long and do come > to and end > >(often abruptedly). > > Good heavens, another libertarian anarchist. It's people like > you who build computers in your garage instead of accepting that > only billion dollar corporations have the resources to build > computer products. Where would Bill Gates be today if he > believed in ideals like that? Why, he'd be worth billions of > dollars....hmm....wait a second, that didn't come out right. > Jack Peacock -- ======================================================== Enrico Tedeschi, 54 Easthill Drive, Brighton BN41 2FD, UK Tel/fax(+01273) 701650 (24 hours) and 0498 692465 (mobile) please visit my website at: <http://www.brighton-uk.com> ======================================================== ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists2.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1998Mar19.151936.1767.32963; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 15:19:36 -0500 Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP id MAA19677; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 12:06:26 -0800 Received: from mxu1.u.washington.edu (mxu1.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.8]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP id MAA33526 for <classiccmp(a)lists.u.washington.edu>; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 12:06:08 -0800 Received: from andromeda.ndirect.co.uk (andromeda.ndirect.co.uk [194.74.254.17]) by mxu1.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.09) with ESMTP id MAA08134 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 12:06:06 -0800 Received: from ndirect.co.uk (th-pm01-62.ndirect.co.uk [195.7.225.126]) by andromeda.ndirect.co.uk (8.8.5/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA07413 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 20:06:01 GMT Message-Id: <35117ADB.AAF0B296(a)ndirect.co.uk> Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 20:06:58 +0000 Reply-To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner(a)u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: Enrico Tedeschi <e.tedeschi(a)ndirect.co.uk> To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Subject: Re: On Flames and Mailing lists, and a bit about computers References: <00e101bd5369$84f3bec0$14ac31cf(a)jack.simconv.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN

26 years, 5 months

On Flames and Mailing lists, and a bit about computers

by peacock＠simconv.com

Enrico Tedeschi wrote: >I feel that ANY rule in ANY organization is wrong. > >In the case of mailing lists or newsgroups if messages are off topic than >either the senders are not answered OR the recipients who do not agree move >away from that list or newsgroup. There no need to police and policing: they >should be self adjusting. History has proved time and time again that >centralized and fascist societies do not last long and do come to and end >(often abruptedly). Good heavens, another libertarian anarchist. It's people like you who build computers in your garage instead of accepting that only billion dollar corporations have the resources to build computer products. Where would Bill Gates be today if he believed in ideals like that? Why, he'd be worth billions of dollars....hmm....wait a second, that didn't come out right. Jack Peacock

26 years, 5 months

On Flames and Mailing lists, and a bit about computers

by spc＠armigeron.com

I'm surprised that it took so little time for this list to get to this point. Another list I'm on took about two years for it to reach critical mass before it exploded into three additional mailing lists, all covering the same topic (with the result of many hurt feelings, a list that only lasted about six months before it imploded, with the original list still going strong). As I said to Sam in some private mail I sent to him: I'm not sure what can be done, but if the topic of a mailing list is held too tightly, eventually it'll die (like one of the mailing list I host now, although there are some other reasons for that as well) as there is little or nothing new being added. ... I don't want to seem overly pessimistic, and yes, perhaps the topics have drifted off a bit too much, but actions like yours (and I'm not trying to blame or pin anything on you, this is just my observations from about 5 years of being on several mailing lists (almost all of them high volume)) tend to do more harm over time than good, by splitting the community up, causing confusion, ill feelings and political overtones. And yet it continues (and Sam, in your reply to the above you appear sane and rational, yet your diatribes on the list show a completely different side, and one that isn't very flattering). Bill may "own" the current list, but that still doesn't prevent anyone >from starting up a new list dedicated to the same topic, only time and resources. And perhaps against my better judgment, I'm doing such a thing (Lord help me), and so let it be. If Sam feels that he can run a list better than Bill, or even I, then he is certainly free to start his own and see who signs up. Much like I am doing now. It's there. If no one subscribes and this list continues to flurish, so be it. If, on the other hand, my list takes off and this one dies, so be it. Currently, the only person subscribed is me. I'm not going to add people, it's up to you. To subscribe, send a message to classiccomp-request(a)lists.armigeron.com with a subject line of 'subscribe' (you might want to put this on the first line of the body as well). That's it. You'll then recieve a welcome message describing the rules and regulations of the list, as well as the unsubscribe rules. If you don't like the rules, we can talk, or you can walk. Simple, eh? -spc (We shall see ... )

26 years, 5 months

Irreverence to irrelevance

by jfoust＠threedee.com

Joe Thiemann <jthiemann(a)castleton.com> wrote: >A private news server is a Bad Thing for those of us sitting at >work with a firewall inbetween ourselves and the net. I do not think I >will have much success convincing the firewall admins to allow news >traffic to go through. You're behind a firewall that doesn't let you read news? Why do your admins let you read mail - why, you could read a *virus* by accident! :-) Russ Blakeman <rhblake(a)bbtel.com> >Good idea in a way but my days back as a SysOp on my own private Fidonet BBS >shows these closed areas/news servers to be VERY boring. I've been on Compuserve since the early 80s, and I tend to like their style of management. The forum managers tend to rule with a very light hand, in the style of a good bartender. (Another factor I believe helped raise the quality of patron was CIS's $/hour fees. :-) Sam wrote: >Ok fine. Until I'm able to take over ClassicCmp completely, we can put a >few issues to a vote. Huh? "Supporters of democracy deserve to get it, good and hard." Please, Sam, it's within your ken to set up and administer a mailing list, and you can even moderate it, which will probably take more than an hour a day, and people will complain when you don't do it fast enough. Sound like fun yet? Life being what it is, you'll probably revert to the "sit back and let the flames die on their own" approach to list management, which works pretty well, considering the alternatives. Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote: > After all, I've been talking about Weller soldering >irons, HP LogicDarts (which are far too new to be called classics), >ASR33's (which, although old, are not computers), etc. I'm sorry. I had no idea that my questions about the ASR-33 would be considered off-topic by anyone. My 70s computer experiences were nearly defined by I/O through these beasts, and they were certainly a popular interface for DEC and S-100 era computers, so I thought they were supremely on-topic! - John Jefferson Computer Museum <http://www.threedee.com/jcm>

26 years, 5 months

Northstar S100 compatability

by simon＠nenevr.demon.co.uk

Hi there, guys. I've been lurking on this list for a good long while now, and some of the recent talk of Northstar crates actually prompted me to dig one out that I had aquired a good few years ago and promptly forgotten about...! Does anyone have any idea what sort of RAM cards the Horizon likes to play with? My system already has an (albeit flakey) RAM-16 card, and I have the remains of an old Godbout Econoram-II card, sans about half its chips. I have *no* idea whether this card was ever used with the N*. The machine is not in great condition, bless it; it seems to have been robbed of a couple of voltage regulators at some point in the past, and the full-height 5.25 drives are, I fear, past their best, and shall be retired gracefully. I think that the PSU could do with some adjustment, too; if anyone in the UK has schematics for any of these bits, and would be willing to make copies in exchange for money or eternal gratitude, please let me know! Still, despite it's problems, I suppose I should at least be grateful that I have at least found a manufacturer of hard-sectored diskettes! [1] Thanks. Simon. -- Simon Coombs simon(a)nenevr.demon.co.uk Don't stand on ceremony; just bow low. CP/M - The once and future O/S! [1] Or, at least, they still were as of Jul 97.

26 years, 5 months

Symbolics 3650.. and Toobs!

by prp＠hf.intel.com

> Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 10:41:49 -0700 > From: Jack Harper <jharper(a)bs2000.com> > To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu > Subject: Symbolics 3650.. > > Question - I very recently obtained a Symbolics 3650 lisp machine -- along > with six large boxes of associated 'stuff'. With luck, I hope to get this > beast back to life -- it apparently worked prior to being shipped to me (by > truck) but I obviously expect some problems. Does anyone on the List have > any experience or have any available spare parts or documentation -- or, > most important, actual experience with Symbolics lisp machines??? I also have a big Symbolics and supposedly some documentation, but I haven't opened any of the boxes so I don't know whats there. I don't have any experience with these machines and don't expect to be able to try mine any time soon, but other than that would be happy to share experiences. I also have contacts in a shop that ran them fairly recently, but they are a startup (of sorts) so don't have spare time to hold our hands. Corresponded with a fellow who has a complete listing of LISP 1.5, we talked about how to get it into machine readable form so it could run on a 7090 emulator. Definitely something I'd like to see happen. If you run across any LISP on 7-track tape I can read it. > ------------------------------ > > Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 14:12:28 -0500 (EST) > From: William Donzelli <william(a)ans.net> > To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu > Subject: Toobs! > > I now have sitting on my desk six modules from an IBM 700 series > mainframe, destined for the Mill at RCS/RI. Of course, six modules does > not make a computer, but I think we should at least try them out, just to > see how badly they perform. If they are from a 704, 705 or 709 or ancillary equipment I may have module diagrams. Look for a 4-digit number rubber stamped on the metal on the tube side, also there may be a 6-digit part number. To get an idea of what machine they might be from list the tube types. For instance, the higher performance 704/709 modules used mostly 5965's in the processor. Also look at the parts on the sides, logic modules have resistors and lots of diodes and maybe a few inductors. Other modules will have few or no diodes. One common module from card equipment has a small double row of core memory in the middle near the connector. Paul Pierce http://www.teleport.com/~prp/collect/

26 years, 5 months

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test-drb March 1998