Hi, Tony.
Thanks for the response. I can't do much about it over the next two weeks,
because I'm 12 days from dissertation hand in (with, naturally, four weeks work
to do), but I'm certainly interested.
> Well, I have one (or maybe 2) 6809 CPU boards from Acorn...
>
> Do you insist on an 'original' EPROM, or would a copy in a new 27xx be
> OK? I have an EPROM programmer, you see, and I'm pretty sure Acorn
> wouldn't mind after all these years, especially not for restoring a machine.
>
> Also, do you need schematics/ROM source for the 6809 board? I have those
> as well, I think.
>
> It would take me _months_ to find it, but I may have a Flex boot disk for
> the 6809 Acorn machine.
I'd love a 6809 board. I have the User Manual (and some others from similar
era) and the Eurocard schematics (as you may remember). I don't think I have
the ROM source, so that would be nice. I do have a rather nice Eurocard rack
(empty, cost me a fiver, and that was only because it had a nice PSU). I'd
like to build a floppy add-on for the 6809 (I have the schematics for Acorn's
one, and I think I even have the parts), so the Flex boot disk would be a
goodie.
I don't care if any of the firmware/software is original or an "off-site
backup". Since I worked for Acorn, I can assure you they wouldn't care about
copying such old stuff (unless it was ridiculously blatant for-profit misuse).
I copy ROMs myself, all the time -- there's nothing worse than finding it's the
ROM/PROM/PAL that's died in some old board, so I like to make copies of
anything I get, for security. Yes, I know some manufacturers dislike that, but
I've had two bad experiences trying to track down replacements. I have a 27xxx
programmer of my own, but I wish I could persuade the Department to let me keep
the MicroPross programmer (the one that knows how to program every TTL PROM,
almost every 27xx, 27xx, 28xx EPROM, and umpteen PALs). It may be ten years
old, but I've not seen anything else with a quarter of the performance.
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Dept. of Computer Science
University of York
On Feb 28, 22:47, lisard(a)zetnet.co.uk wrote:
> hmm. did the acorn 32016 workstation ever emerge, or did the arch
> effectively replace that concept?
Yes, they first appeared a the Acorn Cambridge Workstation (ACW) which was
basically a BBC B-plus board inside a wierd monitor-type case, with a
Microvitec 14" colour monitor, a custom PSU, a 5.25" 80-track floppy, a 20MB
winchester, a 32016 with 4MB of RAM, and a LOT of metalwork. They didn't make
many; I had one for a while (I worked for Acorn) but passed it on to a dealer
eventually (idiot!). I've since seen two or three others.
There were some other similar-looking machines in the range. For example, the
ABC -- Acorn Business Computer, a Z80 instead of the 32016; and one with a
80186 and DR-DOS. Both were axed very quickly. I've still got some of the
bumf for those...
There was also a Second Processor version in a small box, as an add-on to a BBC
Micro. That came in two versions, one had 512K of memory (IIRC) and the other
had 4MB (same as the ACW). They ran the same firmware/software as the ACW,
including PANOS, a sort of cross between Unix and Flex, with hints of UCSD.
The Second Processor version remained in production for several years,
eventually being available as an add-in for the Master 128 which replaced the
BBC Micro (this version was called the Master Sientific, but it was just the
same item). I've still got the glossies for those, too...
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Dept. of Computer Science
University of York
On 1998-02-27 classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu said to lisard(a)zetnet.co.uk
:> ah, if we're going to get on to the "what do i wish for?" list...
:Well, I don't recomend killing me to get your hands on my little
:collection... And I rarely sell machines.
never dream of it (unless of course, you were to flip and unload your
entire collection into the nearest municipal dump. *then*, you'd be
targeted... but that isn't going to happen ;> ;> )
:> any system based on the 32xxx (a ceres would be nice, but we doubt
:> they're available...)
:More practically, there are still a number of Whitechapel MG1's
:about. Repairing one is not hard - the main problem is the NiCd
:battery used for starting it. A Technical manual does exist...
hmm. did the acorn 32016 workstation ever emerge, or did the arch
effectively replace that concept?
:> a linn rekursiv (wouldn't you? ;> )
:Ooooh... Now that's a machine I don't have, and would like!
very rare though. linn only ever used them in-house, and god knows if
they are still in use.
:What about a Zilog 8000 ? It was/is (there's at least one still
:operational) a Z8000-based unix box. Mine has an SMD disk
didn't know about it. it'd be nice to find one, though. the processor
is more important to us than the box it come in. (except that we would
really love an olivetti, just because they're so ugly they wrap around
into cuteness ;> )
oh, add a sirius one to the list; we forgot it.
:> a perq
:Does the fact that you've listed 'perq' about 4 times mean that you
:want one from each series?
no, it means we want one about 4 times as much as we want anything else.
:> an original cp/m system or three (hm systems; the minstrel always
:> appealed)
:What do you mean by 'original'? If you mean a machine designed to
:run CP/M, then there must still be some RML 380Z's (very solid UK
:CP/M machines used in schools) about. Ditto for DEC rainbows,
:Amstrads (although I don't like those myself), BBC Z80 second
:processors, Epson QX10's (IMHO one of the nicest CP/M machines ever
:built), etc.
designed as a cp/m box is about the closest, but what we really meant
was the other definition of original - the one that's a couple of steps
either side of weird.
:Just out of curiousity, why aren't you looking for the following
:machines?
:DEC PDP8, PDP11, Vax, any other PDP's?
we must have deleted the line we were going to put in that said "any pdp
that isn't 8 or 11". not an 8, because we want to write a simulator for
that first; not an 11, because - well, it just strikes us that
everyone's got an 11...
:AMT DAP (Distributed Array Processor)
how could we program it effectively? we wouldn't refuse one if it came
along, but it isn't something for which we'd actively go looking.
:Anything transputer-based
what was/is there? did the ATW ever happen?
:The Xerox D-machines (somewhat PERQ-like in many ways)
rarity, didn't think these ever escaped from xerox. obviously if we were
offered a dolphin or (mmmmm) a dorado we'd jump at it, but why break
your heart because you can't get something that it's impossible to get?
:Torch XXX, quadX, etc
on the "refuse but not actively chase" list.
:Tiger. Now there's a strange machine.. A Z80 + 64K RAM, a 6809 + 8K
:RAM, RS232, parallel, cassette ports, 1200/75 baud modem, 7220
:graphics chip + 96K RAM, etc, etc, etc. It was going to be sold as
:a home computer...
didn't know of its existence - more information please...?
-- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling
you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her...
Net-Tamer V 1.08X - Test Drive
[kip crosby]
:>> a linn rekursiv (wouldn't you? ;> )
:Okay. Now, one person mentioning this is one thing, but Tony coming
:back and knowing what it IS (even though it's Tony) is too much for
:me. Given the name Linn and the funny spelling, I keep thinking
:this is something like a turntable, but if so, why mention it here?
:What is it?
it's in the "great microprocessors" list, although it was a single-board
computer rather than an mpu. exact details slip our memory at the
moment, but the history is that the chairman of linn (yes, the company
who make the turntables) wanted a computer system to replace the ageing
systems already automating his production line. being something of a
techie, he analysed the available systems, but none of them did what he
wanted; so basically, they designed their own.
what they came up with was the machine that the intel 432 should have
been - the architecture of it was completely object-oriented, even down
to the handle:offset-based addressing. a lot of oo mechanisms were done
in hardware, there as no concept of linear address space, and the
machine ran under the steam of its own language, lingo (used in at least
one academic book on oo - we read it during our degree course - and
afawk not related to the inferno project, although it's possible...).
there was a byte article on it somewhere too (dick pountain).
sorry for the vagueness. we'd recommend looking at the great cpus list
for better detail.
-- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling
you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her...
Net-Tamer V 1.08X - Test Drive
>mmm, a //gs... yes please here also. the thought of a 16-bit 6502 to
>play with... :> (yep, even though we have a special affection for the
>much maligned 286.)
Having spent 2 years programming the 65816, believe me you DON'T want to
play with a 16 bit 6502!!!! The memories, the memories.... There was a
processor dog if ever I saw one. Interpretation of opcodes was dependant on
the mode the processor was set to, and so if you branched to a section of
code when you were in the wrong mode, results were... screwy.
All sorts of wierd and wonderful things when you switched modes; for
example switching from 16 bit accumulator to 8 bit cleared the high byte,
but switching the index registers the same.... didn't.
It was a very painful time in my life :)
A
On 1998-02-28 classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu said to lisard(a)zetnet.co.uk
:Eh, heh.
:So how do I get a modulus in Apple basic? The answer is not 'MOD'
:or '%'.
try A - INT(A/B) * B. certainly on our collection of homies the MOD
concept just didn't exist, so you had to cheat. why? well, some of those
basics didn't use integer math, and there's not much call for a MOD
function in floating point.
on the other hand, you could get yourself a real language like forth...
;> ;>
-- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling
you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her...
Net-Tamer V 1.08X - Test Drive
::Torch XXX, quadX, etc
:on the "refuse but not actively chase" list.
hmm.
please, insert a "don't" in the obvious place...
-- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling
you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her...
Net-Tamer V 1.08X - Test Drive
[tony duell]
:But there's very few similarities between (say) the PDP8,
:the PDP10 and the PDP11.
having read up on these, we'd beg to differ here. it seems to us that
all the pdps followed a very definite architectural pattern, with the
exception of the pdp11 which struck us as a major departure (the dg nova
has more in common with the early pdps than the pdp11, to our mind). ok,
so they weren't anything like binary compatible (well, between families
- there was the 5,8,12; the 1; the 4,7,9; the 6,10; and then the nova /
eclipse. all were basically accumulator-plus-memory architectures, it
seems, even the 6 and 10; all had simple, regular, but very powerful
instruction sets with minimal formatting and all instructions in one
word (if you view the 6 word size as 18 bits and call it a double word
machine :> ) - we can discern a very distinct family resemblance on the
way up.
the pdp11 marked a major change, from a 1-address to a 2-address
architecture. we aren't sure it was a good thing...
anyway, the pdp8 is much more similar to the 10 than either is to the 11.
-- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling
you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her...
Net-Tamer V 1.08X - Test Drive
I might as well add my list:
apple //gs and a //c+ to complete my apple ][ collection,
tandy 102 disk drive
a replacement floppy drive for my mac IIcx
apple lisa
david
On 1998-02-27 classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu said to lisard(a)zetnet.co.uk
:Here, take my 10 year old copy of Minix. BTW, is anybody up to
:speed on the current state of Minix? I have an itch to run *ix on
:a 128K 8086 box, and it doesn't look like ELKS is ready for prime
:time.
minix is onto version 2 now; it's going the way of all unices by the
looks of things. (kernel cpu detection, 32-bit mode, ram preferences
listed in the megabytes region..) if you want to run it on a 128k
system, best stick with that 10 year old copy. or rewrite uzi to run.
btw... does anybody have a copy of the 16-bit coherent that they'd like
to pass on? any version, the older the better.
-- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling
you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her...
Net-Tamer V 1.08X - Test Drive
