ClassicCmp - The Classic Computers Discussion List
FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) v1.0
1.1 What is ClassicCmp?
1.2 Why is ClassicCmp?
1.3 What's a Classic Computer?
1.4 Who runs this thing?
1.5 Don't you know you're duplicating what others have done?
2.1 What can I talk about?
2.2 Can I talk about PCs?
2.3 Can I talk about Mini/MainFrames?
2.4 Can I post advertisments?
2.5 Can I ask people to give me their computers?
2.6 Can I ask for help fixing item x?
2.7 Where should I look before posting a dumb question?
3.1 How many subscribers are there?
3.2 How many subscribers use machine x?
4.1 Does ClassicCmp have a Web Site?
4.2 How come the Web Site is so ugly?
5.1 Where can I find Classic Computers?
5.2 How much is machine x worth?
5.3 Will 1000's of innocent machines be scrapped if I don't save them?
1.1 What is ClassicCmp?
It's a mailing list for the discussion of classic computers. Topics
center on collection (just hoarding), restoration, and operation.
It is also an appropriate place for stories and reminiscences of
classic computers.
1.2 Why is ClassicCmp?
Uh, why not? There are lots of people who love these old machines
and it seems like a fun idea to get together and talk about them.
1.3 What is a Classic Computer?
Any computer that has not been manufactured for 10 years is a classic.
This definition is one I made up and it's entirely arbitrary. It
seems to work OK, so I've kept it.
1.4 Who runs this thing?
That would be me, Bill Whitson. I'm a network administrator at the
University of Washington. This is one of my hobbies and I got tired
of waiting for someone else to create a list like this. I can be
reached at bcw(a)u.washington.edu.
1.5 Do you know you're just duplicating work other people have done.
Damn straight. That's what the internet's all about.
2.1 What can I talk about?
Anything related to classic computers as defined above. There are
many people on this list that really know what they're talking
about, so you might want to check facts before you start shooting
off messages.
2.2 Can I talk about PCs?
Yes. PCs which haven't been manufactured for 10 years. Even then
be aware that in many cases you would get a better response posting
to PC newsgroups.
2.3 Can I talk about Minis/MainFrames?
Yep. Lots of bulky computer folks here.
2.4 Can I post advertisements?
Sure. As long as they're related to _classic_ computers. And, of
course, use your brain - don't post repeatedly.
2.5 Can I ask people to sell/give me their computers?
Sure. But you're not likely to get a very nice response. Mine,
for example, would be: Get your own f***ing computer! There
are several people on usenet who will vouch for this.
2.6 Can I ask for help fixing item x.
Yes. Be aware that it may be difficult to help you fix things
if you don't have much knowledge of how computers work or of
how to use basic electronics tools (DMM, soldering iron, EPROM
burner, etc).
2.7 Where can I look before posting a dumb question?
It might be a good idea to take a look at what's available
in the Archive section of the ClassicCmp web site (see below).
3.1 How many subscribers are there?
Around 200, fluxing daily.
3.2 How many subscribers use machine x?
Don't bother asking me. If you really want to know go ahead
and post to the list. I really don't know what having a
number will do for you...
4.1 Does ClassicCmp have a web site?
Yep. http://weber.u.washington.edu/~bcw/ccl.html
4.2 How come the web site is so ugly?
How come a PET is so ugly? Who cares as long as it works?
5.1 Where can I find classic computers?
The best places seem to be thrift stores and swap meets. These
are closely followed by pawn shops and mom and pop computer stores.
The holy grails are electronics scrap yards - but they tend to be
wary of individual pick-and-choosers. Oh yeah - garage sales!
5.2 How much is machine x worth?
Precisely as much as you'll pay for it. Oh, you're selling it?
Then , precisely as much as I'll pay for it.
5.3 Will 1000's of innocent machines be scrapped if I don't save them?
Yes. This is the impetus behind every collectors tireless and
selfless effort. Each machine we fail to save has it's gold
parts mercilessly hacked off and sold (just like rhino horns - and
look at the rhinos). The remainder is then sent to China to be
made into bicycle spokes. Save a computer! Act now! Remind
you wife of the rhino and cuter, furrier animals. It might work.
Yep, it was another profitable weekend scavenging mission!
The stats:
New Machines: 5
New Periphs: 3
New Manuals: 2
New Disks/Software: 60+
Money Spent: $32
So... help me with this stuff! These are all machines I've
never had before.
1. Franklin Ace 500. Seems to be a really nice Apple II clone.
Problem is I don't have a power supply. Any chance the ratings
are the same as a IIc supply?
2. Tandy Color Computer. Boasts a whopping 4k! Fixed a broken
keyboard - now all I have to do is find some software.
3. Atari 800xl! Oops, I lied earlier. I used to have one and
now have one again. It was new, still-shrinkwrapped!
4. Televideo 950 terminal. Seems to be a nice terminal for one
of my cp/m boxes.
5. HP Series 100. This one doesn't currently work. It will
probably be a project for some upcoming weekend. Anyone know
what it is? Very strange little machine...
Also picked up a commodore printer and 1571 disk drive. It
was a good weekend ;)
Bill Whitson
ClassicCmp "owner"
bcw(a)u.washington.edu bill(a)booster.u.washington.edu
I was talking to a friend this weekend who brought
up this idea that before long EPROMs in our old
computers are going to start to go bad. This is
something I've heard before but, to be honest, I
don't know enough to make a judgement on it. If
this is the case, I suppose I should be burning
backups.
While I'm at it... What are some other concerns
along these lines. What should we be planning
for as these machines grow 5, 10, 15 years older?
Bill Whitson
ClassicCmp "owner"
bcw(a)u.washington.edu bill(a)booster.u.washington.edu
This is for all of our European members. I'm interested in the Enterprise
line of computers, either the 64 or the 128. How common are these machines in
Europe? Would it be hard to find one?
Jeff jeffh(a)eleventh.com
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------
// Amiga: The computer for the creative mind...since 1985!
// -------------------------------------------------------
\// True 32bit pre-emptive multitasking GUI, plug&play hardware,
\/ stereo sound, and 4096 color video modes since day #1
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Collector of classic home computers:
Amiga 1000, Atari 800, Atari 800XL, Atari Mega-ST/2, Commodore
C-128 & C128D, Commodore Plus/4, Commodore VIC-20, Kaypro 2X,
Mattel Aquarius, Osbourne Executive, Sinclair ZX-81, TI-99/4A,
Timex-Sinclair 1000, TRS-80 Color Computer-3, and a TRS-80 Model 4.
Plus Atari SuperPong and Atari 2600VCS game consoles.
On 31-Mar-97, classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu wrote:
>Just the machine itself, unfortunately (Remember, the Aquarius was
>discontinued just about the same time it hit the stores . . .) There were
>promises of memory expansion, disk drives, etc., but I never saw any for
>sale . . .
Actually, the only piece of documentation I have for mine shows a pic of
all kinds of stuff hooked to it as well as a price list for the stuff. It's
pretty interesting.
Jeff jeffh(a)eleventh.com
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------
// Amiga: Today's Technology Ten Years Ago
// -------------------------------------------------------
\// True 32bit pre-emptive multitasking GUI, plug&play hardware,
\/ stereo sound, and 4096 color video modes since day #1
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Collector of classic home computers:
Amiga 1000, Atari 800, Atari 800XL, Atari Mega-ST/2, Commodore
C-128 & C128D, Commodore Plus/4, Commodore VIC-20, Kaypro 2X,
Mattel Aquarius, Osbourne Executive, Sinclair ZX-81, TI-99/4A,
Timex-Sinclair 1000, TRS-80 Color Computer-3, and a TRS-80 Model 4.
Plus Atari SuperPong and Atari 2600VCS game consoles.
On 30-Mar-97, classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu wrote:
>> Mattel Aquarius, Osbourne Executive, Sinclair ZX-81, TI-99/4A,
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>You got one too? Have you ever been able to do much with it?
>(I picked up one for free at a flea market a few years back. Only about
>4K, but I was able to write some simple Basic programs, and even save them
>on tape, with it. . .)
I've actually got two...One under the Mattel name, the other under the
Radofin name. Same machine though, as Radofin was the actual manufacturer of
it I believe. It's a pretty simple machine, but interesting. I've played
with the Basic somewhat, but haven't tried to do much. What all do you have
for the Aquarius?
Jeff jeffh(a)eleventh.com
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------
// Amiga: Today's Technology Ten Years Ago
// -------------------------------------------------------
\// True 32bit pre-emptive multitasking GUI, plug&play hardware,
\/ stereo sound, and 4096 color video modes since day #1
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Collector of classic home computers:
Amiga 1000, Atari 800, Atari 800XL, Atari Mega-ST/2, Commodore
C-128 & C128D, Commodore Plus/4, Commodore VIC-20, Kaypro 2X,
Mattel Aquarius, Osbourne Executive, Sinclair ZX-81, TI-99/4A,
Timex-Sinclair 1000, TRS-80 Color Computer-3, and a TRS-80 Model 4.
Plus Atari SuperPong and Atari 2600VCS game consoles.
On 31-Mar-97, classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu wrote:
>This was my very first computer. I still miss it to this day. I harbor
>few regrets in my life but one of them is selling this system with my
>atari 2600 to buy my first apple. The 2600 I've since replaced (ten
>fold) and I'm sure someday I'll run into another aquarius and will have
>it too, but I can never replace the programming I did on it. I had a
>comic book inventory database program and I wrote seevral simple arcade
>games. My setup was the aquarius with an expansion box that plugged into
>the expansion slot that allowed two carthridges to be plugged in
>simultaneously. This allowed a 4K memory expansion card to be plugged in
>along with other game carthridges which required the increased memory. I
>had a 4K mem carthridge, a couple games, keypad controllers, a thermal
>printer, and two tape drives. What a fun little system. Some day I will
>recoup all this gear. I just hope the kid I sold it too got as much use
>out of it as I did.
Sam,
Sounds like quite a system. From the picture on the flyer I have, the
Aquarius hooked up to all the expansion gear was quite a sight as well. As
has already been mentioned, I have two base Aquarius computers, one of which
is the Mattel variant which I recently picked up on a whim. Would you be
interested in this machine? It's fucntional,though needs a little cleaning
up. You are welcome to it...just let me know.
Jeff jeffh(a)eleventh.com
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------
// Amiga: Today's Technology Ten Years Ago
// -------------------------------------------------------
\// True 32bit pre-emptive multitasking GUI, plug&play hardware,
\/ stereo sound, and 4096 color video modes since day #1
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Collector of classic home computers:
Amiga 1000, Atari 800, Atari 800XL, Atari Mega-ST/2, Commodore
C-128 & C128D, Commodore Plus/4, Commodore VIC-20, Kaypro 2X,
Mattel Aquarius, Osbourne Executive, Sinclair ZX-81, TI-99/4A,
Timex-Sinclair 1000, TRS-80 Color Computer-3, and a TRS-80 Model 4.
Plus Atari SuperPong and Atari 2600VCS game consoles.
>At 07:22 AM 3/28/97 PST, you wrote:
>>I'm about to become the proud owner of my first Osborne Computer. An
>>"Executive" is being sent to me next week. I can't wait to get it going.
>
>Congratulations. They are neat beasts.
>> internal Ram
>>Disk known as "Drive C" or maybe a Bios upgrade, or some software.
>>
>>Anyone have a source for these items now? Such as the Ram Disk or maybe a
>>Hard Disk upgrade??
>
>Interesting you mention the "Drive C" unit, I have on e in my collection
>but no software or docs. Anyone have any info on this critter?
>
Yes. Where are you? I have a manual that deals with both the hard drive and
the Drive "C" attachment. Also have two drive "C" units. Have never been
able to get them to work properly, and the docs don't help much. At any
rate, the manual is a rather thick document and unfortunately, it's not mine
to lend or sell at this point. Depending on what you want to know, I could
photocopy exerpts.
-Ron Mitchell
JEFF>>> At a swap meet today, I picked up 9 VIC-20 cartridges as well as one
JEFF>>> program tape. Among the VIC cartridges was a 16k RAM expansion and
one called
JEFF>> 'Programmers Aid Cartridge' (VIC-1212).
Jeff, there is a 28 page manual that comes with that cart. Following quote
might help get you started:
Quote:
After the VIC is inserted (the cartridge) type the following:
SYS 28681 (and hit the return key)
The VIC will display the following message:
PROGRAMMER'S AID
READY
All of the AID commands are now included in your VIC's internal instruction
set and may be used like any BASIC commands
END QUOTE
The cartridge adds 20 apecial editing commands to the VIC's instruction
vocabulary and gives you an easy method for re-defining the VIC's
programmable function keys.
the commands are:
AUTO FIND OFF
CHANGE HELP PROG
DELETE KEY RENUMBER
DUMP KILL STEP
EDIT MERGE TRACE
CTRL A, E, L, N, Q, U also provide additional editing functions.
Function keys are assigned various jobs; ie F1 is LIST, F3 is RUN, F5 is
GOTO, F7 is INPUT
Of course, there is more detail as to useage and some specific examples
contained in the manual.
Was just trying the thing out... hoping that the HELP command would provide
some syntax examples for you. Unfortunately it doesn't. The HELP command
will pinpoint a syntax error in your program if you use it directly after
receiving an error message.
Photocopying this short manual would cost me about $5. If you'll send me the
money, I'll do it for you.
JEFF>>> Also, can anyone explain the reasoning behind the different color
schemes
JEFF>> >for the labels?
I have both. Don't know why it is so. Manufacturer's perrogative?
-Ron Mitchell
At a swap meet today, I picked up 9 VIC-20 cartridges as well as one
program tape. Among the VIC cartridges was a 16k RAM expansion and one called
'Programmers Aid Cartridge' (VIC-1212). I popped the cartridge into the
VIC-20 and the computer still boots right into Basic 2.0. Is this some kind
of debugging cartridge then that helps with errors and such? None of the
cartridges I picked up came with the docs but the ones I've tried seem to work
ok so far.
Also, can anyone explain the reasoning behind the different color schemes
for the labels? The Gorf and Radar Ratrace cartridges I already had both have
cream cases with cream/brown/black labels. The new cartridges I got today
have brown cases with silver/black labels, though some have off-white cases
with silver/black lables, while one has and off-white case with a silver/gold
label! All of these are from Commodore.
Jeff jeffh(a)eleventh.com
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------
// Amiga: Today's Technology Ten Years Ago
// -------------------------------------------------------
\// True 32bit pre-emptive multitasking GUI, plug&play hardware,
\/ stereo sound, and 4096 color video modes since day #1
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Collector of classic home computers:
Amiga 1000, Atari 800, Atari 800XL, Atari Mega-ST/2, Commodore
C-128 & C128D, Commodore Plus/4, Commodore VIC-20, Kaypro 2X,
Mattel Aquarius, Osbourne Executive, Sinclair ZX-81, TI-99/4A,
Timex-Sinclair 1000, TRS-80 Color Computer-3, and a TRS-80 Model 4.
Plus Atari SuperPong and Atari 2600VCS game consoles.
