On April 22, 2015 7:38:43 PM PDT, Bill Sudbrink <wh.sudbrink at verizon.net> wrote:
> I remember a conversation about this subject from many
> years ago that never came to any conclusion. Has anyone
> discovered any "paint codes" or other definitive descriptions
> for the finish on the upper case of an IMSAI? I'm thinking
> of having my worst case (multiple scrapes and scratches,
> several permanent stains) refinished.
>
> Bill S.
I seem to recall Todd Fisher of imsai.net selling custom-mixed cans of "imsai blue" paint.
--
David Griffith
dave at 661.org
I'm attempting to dump an image of the Ridge 32/330's original SMD drive
(A Fujitsu MK2322) -- I'd been running it off of a spare, because I
didn't want to disturb what was on the original drive until I could back
it up. Now that the spare has died I figured it would be an opportune
time...
The Ridge "DISCUTIL" tool (loaded from QIC) is pretty powerful, and
amongst its weapons is the "DS" command which will dump a sector of the
disk to screen, in ASCII HEX. The Ridge has been running for the past
eight days dumping the entire 168mb disk, in HEX, at 9600 baud. Yes,
I'm insane.
Along the way I discovered that the integrity of the data on the disk is
pretty poor. There are lots of bad sectors. In particular surfaces 2
and 3 are completely unreadable for all 823 cylinders, surfaces 4 and 8
are marginal most of the time. After a lot of retries I've managed to
get most of everything (except for surfaces 2 and 3 which yield no data
at all).
So I figured that heads 2 and 3 are toast -- perhaps bad analog logic,
maybe something in the digital logic that selects the head, maybe even
bad heads, who knows.
DISCUTIL also has a "FORMAT" command that will format individual
cylinders, on a specified surface. So after I'd read out everything
possible to save, I tried it on a cylinder (801) known to have trouble
sectors, that also containing all zeros so I wouldn't wipe out anything
vital. After doing a format on cyl 801, head 2 I could read all sectors
on that cylinder/head without issue. Same with head 3, 4 and 8.
Suspecting a possible addressing fault I tried reading every surface on
cylinder 801 after formatting all surfaces on that cylinder, and they
all read without issue. (I'd expect that if, for example, when I asked
the disk to format surface 2 it actually formatted surface 5, then
reading surface 5 later would fail due to an invalid sector header for
surface 5...)
So, I suppose this is somewhat good news in that I may be able to use
the drive, but I wonder what would cause the data on the disk to fail in
such a manner (and I'm still hesitant to reformat the drive without
recovering stuff off of surfaces 2/3...) Any thoughts?
- Josh
I was goofing around with an old digicam (Fuji MX700)and wondered if I
could stick it on the eyepiece of my old B&L Stereozoom inspection
microscope. Aside from the obvious problem of using LEDs for
illumination, it looks like it works. Maybe it's not time to toss the
old camera. (FWIW, the illumination is a freebie 9-LED flashlight,
which just happens to fit the scope stand--I run it from a old 4.5V
cellphone charger.
At any rate, who can identify the head in this photo:
http://i.imgur.com/mN9v33b.jpg
I'm pretty certain that I know. It's about 16mm square and is mounted
on a small PCB with lead connections.
--Chuck
On 4/22/15 5:04 PM, David Gesswein wrote:
> Head alignment off on those heads. Can the drive microstep or any
> other way to change the head alignement? You might be able to recover
> the data that way.
Some SMD drives could microstep and some controllers implemented it. Not
sure about yr drive or its controller. BTW, I did several searches for info
on the Fujitsu drive without any luck.
If u can get a utility to loop on reading a specific track and head then you
can apply finger pressure to the top of the carriage to force the head
slightly off track in either direction to see if it reads better in one
direction or the other. Be careful with both pressure and location because
if the servo decides it's lost it will probably do a recalibration which
happens quickly and with force - could damage the finger.
With an oscilloscope u can observe the raw head signal (differentially) and
see if it increases in one direction or another. U can probably read single
ended if u can figure out where is the output of the read preamplifier
(might even be right next to the head stack).
With a schematic, power supply and variable resistor u can inject an offset
signal into the servo loop and move the heads off tract to the maximum head
amplitude position. Again start low and slowly increase the injected
signal.
Tom
> On Apr 22, 2015, at 11:56 AM, John Foust <jfoust at threedee.com> wrote:
>
> http://dallas.craigslist.org/mdf/syd/4990079844.html
I can't speak to the individual items and their relative condition. However, my sense is they know what they have and the prices are higher than what you'd typically find on eBay. I visited there a few weeks back.
Cheers,
Mike Whalen
> On Apr 22, 2015, at 11:56 AM, John Foust <jfoust at threedee.com> wrote:
>
>
> http://dallas.craigslist.org/mdf/syd/4990079844.html
>
> - John
>
On 4/22/15 7:38 PM, Bill Sudbrink wrote:
> I remember a conversation about this subject from many
> years ago that never came to any conclusion. Has anyone
> discovered any "paint codes" or other definitive descriptions
> for the finish on the upper case of an IMSAI? I'm thinking
> of having my worst case (multiple scrapes and scratches,
> several permanent stains) refinished.
>
> Bill S.
>
>
>
>
If you find an answer, I have one in need of it as well.
>> The phrase "standard Windows 16bit DLLs" means Windows 3.1 DLLs. Such
>> DLL's no longer work in a modern windows. If they directly access the
>> hardware then they will not work on any NT based windows such as
>> Windows/2000, Windows/XP, Vista, or 7, 8 or 9. Nor will they work on any
>> 64-Bit windows full stop. 64-Bit windows does not support 16-bit code.
>> If you have a Windows/95, 98 or ME environment then the code may work.
>
>They should work with 32 bit versions of windows as the 16 bit thunking
>layer is still present. YMMV of course.
Actually, VB3 works perfectly well under all 32-bit versions of Windows up through XP; it breaks at Windows 7 (and presumably Vista). Under all the NT-based versions (NT, 2000, and XP), Windows launches a virtual machine call NTVDM.EXE (NT Virtual DOS Machine), upon which runs yet another emulator WOW.EXE (Windows on Windows). This latter emulator presents the non-preemptive message-passing architecture of Windows 3.1 to all the 16-bit Windows applications (like VB3) that run upon it.
This actually worked remarkably well; I?ve personally supported an application for 20 years that is written in VB3, including adding new features all that time ? even a Web server! There was also a technique that allowed calling 32-bit DLLs from the 16-bit application. There were a couple of bugs, of course, but generally it was a very stable solution to supporting legacy code. There was even a work-around to NT?s rigorous defense of direct hardware access which continued to work through XP.
Windows 7 broke all that. (Presumably Vista actually did, but I?ve never seen a Vista system in the wild...)
~~
Mark Moulding
Dear list
It may sound odd (maybe less to you than to other people...) - but from
time to time I get sad that I don't have any Sun 3 around here (and no
DECstation either). I guess it's an attempt to preserve some of the past
by preserving things that belonged to it.
So, I was just wondering whether you might know anyone who would like to
part with one of these. Preferrably in Europe, so that shipment would
not be prohibitive - and preferrably something like a 3/80 or 3/60 with
keyboard and mouse, trading of speed vs. occupied space.
But actually, first of all I'm interested whether there are any of these
still around in my region at all.
Thanks a lot for any reply of yours in advance! And kind regards!
Joerg
--
http://www.jsigle.com
Have a lovely day...
Hello all together!
At the moment i try to bring back a TTY from Teleprint to life. It is a
TP-3328. A labeled Teletype ASR33. It looks like the original ASR 33.
Differences are the missing off position on the on/off/local switch. The
Motor of the ASR starts up at every key touch and stops after a letter
ist printed. The Elektronic part at the right is also different.
My problem is the current loop connection. The molex plug no. 2 and the
terminal strip below did not exist in my tty like in the original ASR
manuals described. Has any one information about the TTY`s current loop
interface?
Marco
* Englisch - erkannt
* Englisch
* Deutsch
* Englisch
* Deutsch
<javascript:void(0);>
I remember a conversation about this subject from many
years ago that never came to any conclusion. Has anyone
discovered any "paint codes" or other definitive descriptions
for the finish on the upper case of an IMSAI? I'm thinking
of having my worst case (multiple scrapes and scratches,
several permanent stains) refinished.
Bill S.
I've got a full-length ISA (although the last 4" or so is bare PCB, not
even any ground plane) Hercules card here which seems to have been built in
1990. On board we have lots of TTL glue, a pair of 50464 RAM chips, a 24
pin "Hercules font ROM", a 6845, and a 40 pin HG61H15R81P IC. Card edge
just has a female DE9 connector.
Oh, FCC ID is "EW65T5HERCULESTAN". No obvious model number.
1990 seems quite recent, given that we were into SVGA territory by then;
sure there were some CAD applications which would make use of an additional
video board, but the market must have been small. Based on the above (and
to save me having to trace pins) can anyone confirm that the board is
compatible with the original Hercules card and will hook up to an MDA
display? Given the date I just want to check that it's not one of their CGA
or EGA compatibles.
cheers
Jules
My latest HP2000/Access TSB system build came to life today. Pictures at:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/131070638 at N02/
There is still a lot of "cosmetic work" before I'm satisfied with it. Some
detail parts need to be added, some additional cleaning and cable dressing,
etc. All the doors, filler panels, and some trim needs to be put back in
place. This system has passed extended (overnight) diagnostics on every
board, microcode option, and peripheral.
There is an issue with the 7906D - it works ok, but there is some occasional
bearing noise. I have another 7906D sitting there ready to rackmount but I
was so close I just couldn't wait for that and had to fire it up and load
the OS. The 29425D cabinet is opened up only because I was poking at it to
check for the source of the noise.
Unlike my dual 2100A/S TSB system, this one is destined for some development
work and I'll be adding a small (read low power) tape/disk combo, a "flash"
based paper tape reader/punch, and some baci boards which TSB doesn't
support ("currently" cough cough). The only item that needs to be added is
the dual sync modem board set. yes, I'm going to do HP2000/Access RJE to
Hercules ;)
J
Hello !
I would like to find a second home for my vintage VAX/VMS literature.
Description:
I have two very large boxes of VAX/VMS material, approximate dimension of
one box is 55 x 40 x 40 centimeters. I haven't looked up about what topics
the material is, but I can do so if you are interested to obtain it. These
are Plastic maps with paper printed material in them, original VAX/VMS
manuals since 1980s probably.
Condition:
The condition of the paper material isn't perfect, these were held in a
basement in an open box, so some dust have been collected on the manuals
over the years, but everything is still in a readable form. Paper is since
the 1980, so some pages might of have become yellowish or slightly lost the
black print, due to aging.There might be some bended prints too, however
plastic maps have protected the inner papers quite well.
Shipping:
Shipping comes from Slovenia, Europe. As we don't have any cheap
international couriers, I managed to found the cheapest option for 50
eur/box, that would be 100 eur for both boxes with a courier that provides
the tracking number and a 500 eur protection for the lost package, so I
think it's quite good.
Price:
I am willing to donate this material to a person who is interested free of
charge, however if multiple people apply through the mailing list, I'd be
glad to offer the material to the one, who wants to add a small extra to
get this material, but the most important to me is that it gets in the hand
of the VAX/VMS lovers into a second home. Also I expect the buyer to cover
the minimum of shipping costs, that is 100 EUR, before I ship the material.
I can collect bank wire or Paypal payment. I would prefer to ship the
material within the European Union as shipping outside EU might be much
more expenssive. This material has to be shipped soon, I cannot store it
for very long, it should go out latest by the end of this month.
About me:
I am the VAX enthusiast and founder of the #vax channel @ freenode, so if
you wish to live-chat with me you can find me there, otherwise please
e-mail me off the list to janprunk -at- gmail.com if you are interested
about the material.
Kind regards,
Jan
Here is a promotional blurb that ran on the Atlanta area tech show on
our local NBC affiliate WXIA "11Alive" Atlanta.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhpZbmCEWfc [1]
If you are in the Atlanta area or know someone who is, we would love to
have you.
The speaker schedule is now updated on Vintage.org:
http://www.vintage.org/2015/southeast/session.php [2]
We have an upgraded Speakers Hall this year and will be adding a few
last minute additions in the coming days. We are also doing a 6 session
20x20 speed presentation round again this year. It features 6 speakers
giving a short and to the point ~6 minute presentations on mini-topics
where each speaker's 20 slides auto-advance every 20 seconds.
The consignment area is also expanded. John Harris has graciously
donated approximately 2500 technical books available to the public for a
donation to our club. We also have popcorn, other concessions, Doom and
Marathon gaming LANs, Learn-to-Solder workshops featuring a new
build-it-yourself wearable wrist-watch, a retro-console gaming wall, the
Apple and LINK pop-up museums will be open, as well as dozens of
exhibitors showing off their private collections.
I hope to see you there!
-Alan
Links:
------
[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhpZbmCEWfc
[2] http://www.vintage.org/2015/southeast/session.php
HP had a product for TSB called "HP TSP/2000" aka "HP TSP/2000-HASP"
Product number:
20240A
The germane part numbers:
24384A TSP/2000 (800bpi media)
24384A Opt 001 TSP/2000 (1600bpi media)
20240-90001 2000/Access Telecommunications Supervisory Package for HASP
Operator Manual
20240-90002 2000/Access Telecommunications Supervisory Package for HASP
Reference Manual
I would very *very* much like a copy of this, and I have never once come
across it anywhere.
J
I'm receiving every message on the board three times. I'd like to try and unsub and resub to see if it fixes the issue. The website user manager doesn't appear to work. I can't seem to get my password or unsubscribe.
Sent from my iPhone
Hi.? I'm new to the list, but have been collecting and restoring (mostly S-100 stuff) for many years.? Now I'd like to expand my hobby to tackle a 680x0-based Sun system.? I have some Multibus cards that I'd like to interface, and a VME-Multibus adapter if necessary, so I'm hoping to find a Sun-2 or Sun-3 system or parts to assemble into a working configuration.? I'm located in the San Francisco bay area but looking everywhere.? If you've got any related items that you might be willing to part with, or any leads that could be fruitful, I'd love to hear from you!
(Another collector suggested that I might look for a Sun-4 VME chassis and populate it with Sun-3 boards, which seems like an interesting idea.? At this point I'm basically open to anything, but really would like to focus on a Multibus or VME configuration.)
cheers,
Shawn Neelymaxweb at pacbell dot net
Hey,
I have some of the CompuServe drives I'm trying to get the MONITOR to boot
off of ... but I want an image.
So far I have tried:
1). VAXstation 4000/60
2). Ultra 1
3). PC (with Qlogic and Advansys controller)
It sees no drive regardless of termination settings, position on the bus,
or controller.
On the VAX and Sun connecting the drive causes every other drive to no
longer show up on the bus + the recently connected one.
Drives:
ST34573WD
ST32550ND
Any ideas?
I suppose it's possible that 5 drives all spin but are actually bad...
--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net Personal stuff
http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects
On Mon, Apr 20, 2015 at 12:50 PM, John Foust <jfoust at threedee.com> wrote:
> At 12:42 PM 4/19/2015, you wrote:
>>I'm receiving every message on the board three times. I'd like to try and unsub and resub to see if it fixes the issue. The website user manager doesn't appear to work. I can't seem to get my password or unsubscribe.
>
> I assumed the dupes I get are because cctech is mirrored to cctalk.
The work around I've found is to use Gmail... Gmail automatically
deletes dupes so you never see them.
--
Best Regards,
John Musbach
I haven't seen this yet but I'm told that last week's episode of this
show featured an impressive vintage computer collection. It's on BBC
iPlayer, but I have a downloadable copy as well if that is
inaccessible for anyone...
--
Liam Proven ? Profile: http://lproven.livejournal.com/profile
Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? GMail/G+/Twitter/Flickr/Facebook: lproven
MSN: lproven at hotmail.com ? Skype/AIM/Yahoo/LinkedIn: liamproven
Cell/Mobiles: +44 7939-087884 (UK) ? +420 702 829 053 (?R)
Someone (not me) in Germany is selling a number of cards from a HP21MX
machine. Some boards have date codes from 1974 so I guess it is an M-series.
Not sure what cards there are in this lot, but it is for sure the CPU
boards itself, some memory boards and what looks like some serial boards.
http://www.ebay.de/itm/16-Neuwertige-HP-Speicher-Platinen-und-andere-/23153…
Hello list,
while surfing for PDP-11 information yesterday, I came across pictures of a dec data system cabinet
with the vertical grey panels, one of them having three distinct switches.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/8061522 at N07/3793505025/
So far, I couldn't find any hints on the web to figure out what they're used for.
They only seem to exist on those larger business cabinets as far as I could see.
Does anybody of you know about their functions?
Kind regards,
Pierre
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pierre's collection of classic computers moved to: http://www.digitalheritage.de
Hey,
I have a Digi STS 1032 SCSI terminal server here, thought I'd ask if
anyone knows before I pull out the multimeter and fight with using a
magnifier to count the pins and measure.
50-pin external SCSI, anyone know if this is an HVD SCSI device?
--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net Personal stuff
http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects
Hi Al
I have a number of tapes that are for the Bruker Aspect 2000.
They include the OS called ADAKOS.
Originally, I had thought these might be Nicolet 1080 tapes but the
format was different. I didn't recognize it. I've since found that they
are for the Bruker 2000 ( a 24 bit computer, loosely based on
the 1080 computer ).
I have no need for the tapes ( punch ) and only want to keep the tape
tray. There are 12 tapes in a 8 slot tray. One of the tapes is TECO but
most of the others are instrument or system test of some sort.
I'd like to pass them to your archive ( not sure there is much demand
for these but you never know ).
Can you let me know when you might be at the CHM so I can stop
by and drop them off.
Dwight
I have scanned some docs today which don't appear to be in any known
collections. There are two PDP-11 Loader Listings from 1975 and the
engineering drawings for the LT33, DEC's rebadging (and modification?)
of the Teletype Model 33. Those can be found here:
http://chiclassiccomp.org/docs/index.php?dir=%2Fcomputing/DEC
Included with the LT33 packet was Teletype's set of wiring diagrams
for the Model 33 with Private Line. Their number for the set is WDP
0033. There are other examples of this set out there but mine looked
slightly different, so I went ahead and scanned it:
http://chiclassiccomp.org/docs/index.php?dir=%2Fcomputing/Teletype
Feel free to add them to your own sites/collections.
In my searches I ran across this site:
http://www.navy-radio.com/tty/tty-wd-list.htm Loads of Teletype docs
there.
These docs came with the 11/05 I picked up last year. Unfortunately,
there was no sign of the LT33 unit.
The docs above are free-for-shipping to anyone who'd like the
originals. They're in very good shape, just unstapled for scanning.
I'm in 60070 ZIP.
-j
> From: William Donzelli
> will see what can be made of it.
That is great to hear. This sounds like a machine that should be saved, but I
can't really do anything myself (I think PDP-11's are my limit - my wife
tolerates them, but if I started collecting mainframes... :-).
If you need a hand in any way (I'm just across the state line in SE Virginia),
e.g. for loading, temporary storage until you can arrange shipping, or
whatever, please let me know.
Noel
The heart of this is a sync chip. I'm wondering if someone has any
ideas about perhaps using such to grab the video from IBM Mono, CGA, EGA
or the sun mono type video monitors to name a few.
I would love to be able to have a device which grabs these video frames,
and converts them for graphic display or capture, rather than having to
have a physical monitor around for each of these.
This is a fairly economical board, and would be easy to justify using it
with any system to convert the video, as well for a bench device.
Any suggestions for a way to convert these to VGA, or even better where
things seem to be going for DVI would be useful.
thanks
Jim
Nootropicdesign Video Experimenter.
http://nootropicdesign.com/ve/
I think what they are doing here is driving an EGA monitor in CGA mode
with an arduino.
That seems to be a handy thing to have in an old computer bag of tricks.
i'd also like to have a circuit to grab semi static video off of CGA or
EGA ports into Arduino. I'll post another bit with a sync generator
shield for Arduino for that purpose.
You may need to be on Google plus to get the following. I'll post the
text below the Adafruit link which is mentioned in the post.
https://plus.google.com/+adafruit/posts/fWau8XPRpWo
*CGA Output to IBM Enhanced Color Display from Teensy 3.1*
https://blog.adafruit.com/2015/04/14/cga-output-to-ibm-enhanced-color-displ…
Benjamin Gould made this cool project with his CGA monitor using Teensy
via paradigm lift
/A while back, while hunting for an IBM PC AT Model F keyboard, I came
across a Craigslist ad that said something like ?IBM Model 570 computer
for sale with monitor and keyboard, $50?. I realized that it was
probably a typo and that they meant Model 5170, which was the IBM PC AT.
To make a short boring story shorter, the keyboard with the system was a
1986 Model M instead of Model F, but by itself was worth more than $50
anyhow so I lugged the whole thing home and sold the keyboard to cover
the cost. I set the PC and monitor aside for a while until I became
curious if you could drive the monitor with a microcontroller, and I
came across this post on //hackaday.com <http://hackaday.com>//./
/Research/
/The aforementioned post featured a project by a hacker who was able to
get a signal from his Arduino Uno to show up on a CGA monitor. His
demonstration only had horizontal lines, which is much easier than
sending individual pixels. Still, his proof of concept project was very
encouraging and gave me a great jumpstart on the timing calculations
that I would need. Here?s some quick notes regarding the scanning:/
/? The pixel clock for CGA was 14.31818 MHz. Take the reciprocal of that
i number (1/14318180) to find that it takes about 0.06984 microseconds
(?s)./
/? CRT display has electron emitting beams that are rapidly moved across
a phosphor screen to create an image. At the end of each line the beams
are turned off as they move back to left side of the screen and down 1
pixel. After the last visible horizontal scan line they are also turned
off long enough for the beams to retrace vertically./
/? In between each horizontal and vertical scan, a synchronization
signal is emitted as well. For CGA, there are dedicated HSYNC and VSYNC
lines that carry these signals./
tower style
On 4/15/2015 5:44 PM, Jerry Wright wrote:
> Is this the rx or sx One is a cube rack mount, the other a tower style
> - Jerry
>
>
> On Wednesday, April 15, 2015 12:51 PM, Shawn Gordon<shawn-gordon at cox.net> wrote:
>
>
> southern california, near Irvine specifically. I can ship, but that will
> add to the cost for shipping supplies and the shipment.
>
> On 4/15/2015 12:36 PM, Jim Carpenter wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Apr 15, 2015 at 3:30 PM, Shawn Gordon<shawn-gordon at cox.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> The monitor is in perfect condition other than some dust. The computer looks
>>> great, but there is something wrong with it, I don't know what. I don't have
>>> the exact specs here, but I'm getting married and would like to clear some
>>> stuff from the house. If someone is interested in one or both of these items
>>> for a modest price plus shipping, I'd like to hear from you.
>>>
>>>
>> Location???
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
southern california, near Irvine specifically. I can ship, but that will
add to the cost for shipping supplies and the shipment.
On 4/15/2015 12:36 PM, Jim Carpenter wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 15, 2015 at 3:30 PM, Shawn Gordon<shawn-gordon at cox.net> wrote:
>
>> The monitor is in perfect condition other than some dust. The computer looks
>> great, but there is something wrong with it, I don't know what. I don't have
>> the exact specs here, but I'm getting married and would like to clear some
>> stuff from the house. If someone is interested in one or both of these items
>> for a modest price plus shipping, I'd like to hear from you.
>>
>
> Location???
>
>
The monitor is in perfect condition other than some dust. The computer
looks great, but there is something wrong with it, I don't know what. I
don't have the exact specs here, but I'm getting married and would like
to clear some stuff from the house. If someone is interested in one or
both of these items for a modest price plus shipping, I'd like to hear
>from you.
Thanks,
Shawn
I'm doing a little re-engineering.
I'm looking for HP-C product HP92453-01 version A.08.81
I suspect it could have been on HPUX 10.20.
Wondering if anyone may have access to something from back then
and could check the version on the C compiler - just to verify
what OS version.
I can invest in an HP9000/712 system with 10.20 installed,
but not sure about the C compiler that would come with it.
Thanks,
Keven Miller
{Replies to all three recent posts bundled together to reduce list traffic;
hope that's OK...}
> From: Glen Slick
>> Actually, the PMI signals are all (I'm pretty sure, but have not
>> checked) just like most other QBUS signals - 'broadcast'
>> bi-directionally down a transmission line.
> when PMI memory boards are installed above and adjacent to the M8190
> CPU the PMI signals are bused through one PMI memory board to the one
> above and adjacent to it
At a low level, yes; but I'm trying to understand PMI at a higher level - one
that applies across _all_ backplanes, including the 11/84 backplane, which is
a purer implementation of 'PMI is just another broadcast bus'.
> From: Johnny Billquist
>> PMI signals are all (I'm pretty sure, but have not checked) just like
>> most other QBUS signals - 'broadcast' bi-directionally down a
>> transmission line.
I checked (Micronote #30, 11/84 Tech Manual) and this is basically correct;
all the additional PMI signals are implemented as bi-directional transmission
lines (although some are only used uni-directionally, e.g. PMAPE, PUBSYS,
etc). The UNIBUS adapter does use the BDMG and BIACK lines, which are
uni-directional grant lines, but they are both actually QBUS signals.
> But because of the way the CD slots are wired, it cannot be a general
> broadcast thing.
Repeat previous reply to Glen...
>> My impression is that the CPU does not get involved in DMA access to
>> PMI memory.
> This is one thing I'd like to check though. And I think this is my
> point of worry...
I couldn't find any 11/83 manuals online. There is a User Manual for the
KDJ11-B, and it indicates (Section 1.6.1) that DMA devices can become QBUS
masters and do any normal data transfer over the QBUS, which I take to mean
that the CPU is not involved (other than to do the initial
arbitration). Section 7.3 confirms this.
>> I'm pretty sure that whether PMI memory works as PMI memory or QBUS
>> memory depends only on what it hears on the busses, and nothing else.
> The memory works as PMI or plan Qbus memory simply based on where it is
> located in relationship to the CPU
Again, that's looking at one special case (the Q/CD backplane); I'd rather
look at PMI in a more general way.
> From: Pete Turnbull
> QBus non-PMI memory does work (as QBus memory) if placed before the CPU.
That part I was pretty sure about (given the way the QBUS works). The part I
didn't know was whether an M8190 would work correctly with a mix of PMI and
non-PMI memory.
I wonder what it does - does it start a PMI cycle, and then convert to a QBUS
cycle when the PMI doesn't happen? Or does it somehow scan for both types
during startup, and have some sort of configuration table that it relies on
thereafter? I didn't see anything in either the KDJ11-B or KDJ11-E User
Manual, and there is no KDJ11-x Tech Manual that I could find.
Noel
Hi list,
a friend of mine has for give-away a large lot of magazines from the years 1987 to 2000. They are mostly complete I was told. The magazines are "PC-Welt", "PC-Magazin" and "DOS". Located in the region called "Hochsauerlandkreis"
Contact me off-list and I can give you the direct contact to him.
Kind regards,
Pierre
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pierre's collection of classic computers moved to: http://www.digitalheritage.de
> From: Paul Koning
>> One of the great Dutch achievements in computer science:
> The correct description is "one of the great achievements in
> computer science".
Take that set of things. There's a sub-set which are due to Dutch
people/institutions. That's what/all I meant.
> From: Simon Claessen
> I'm not THAT old... :-)
What, you think I am? :-) It's called 'knowing your field's history', like
knowing what Bohr's atomic model was, if you're a physicist...
Noel
> From: Johnny Billquist
>> http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/2015-February/003756.html
> Cool.
Sure; glad you liked it.
>> But the QBUS part of _any_ QBUS backplane is not 'directional'
>> ...
>> http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/2015-February/003757.html
> there is still a question on whether the CPU just pass all signals
> through that you need.
Perhaps I'm confused, but the only QBUS signals which are not 'broadcast'
(i.e. sent down a wired-OR bi-directional bus transmission line to all cards)
are the grant lines. The CPU doesn't pass them through, it originates them -
but memory cards ignore those lines anyway?
> With PMI memory, it obviously works somewhat different, since the CPU
> sources signals in just one direction (hence the reason the PMI memory
> have to be before the CPU)
Actually, the PMI signals are all (I'm pretty sure, but have not checked) just
like most other QBUS signals - 'broadcast' bi-directionally down a
transmission line. The 'PMI memory before the CPU' thing in 11/83's is simply
an artifact of the way 'standard' Q/CD backplanes are wired on the CD side
(used for PMI) - see that second post for details.
In the 11/84 backplane, the PMI memory lines _are_ bussed to all the slots,
just like the QBUS lines, which is why 11/84 PMI memory cards go after the
CPU. (So you could in fact have an empty slot between the CPU and the first
PMI memory card in an 11/84, and it should still work.)
> [the CPU] also interacts/intercepts with all other memory accesses to
> the PMI memory.
My impression is that the CPU does not get involved in DMA access to PMI
memory.
In an 11/83, I gather the DMA devices just do ordinary QBUS memory cycles to
it (see the MSV11-J manual, pg. 1-1, middle). In an 11/84, with UNIBUS
adapter, IIRC the UNIBUS adapter does PMI cycles direct to the memory (but
don't quote me on that, I haven't checked the 11/84 documentation, although
the MSV11-J manual indicates it does - see pg. 1-1, bottom).
> Which is yet another reason why the PMI memory sits before the CPU. If
> you put PMI memory after the CPU, it will instead work as normal Qbus
> memory.
I'm pretty sure that whether PMI memory works as PMI memory or QBUS memory
depends only on what it hears on the busses, and nothing else. If it sees a
PMI cycle for it, it does a PMI cycle; if it sees a QBUS cycle for it, it does
a QBUS cycle.*1 So in an 11/84, where it's on the bus after the CPU, it does
PMI cycles with the CPU because the CPU does a PMI cycle.
(1: Note that the MSV11-JB and -JC variants don't do QBUS properly, and are
PMI only, and so can't be used in an 11/83. I seem to recall hearing it's
just QBUS block mode transfers that they don't do properly?)
Which all does raise an interesting question: if an M8190 is in a system with
a _mix_ of PMI and regular QBUS memory, do accesses to both memories work
fine? (E.g. if it's in a Q/CD backplane with a PMI board before it, and a
regular QBUS memory card after it.)
Something to try, I guess - I have a working Q22/CD box, and plenty of cards
- should just plug them in and try it!
Noel
So I had the Ridge 32 running again (when I went to debug the -12V
supply it had started working again, so I'll take that for now, I
suppose). After running for an hour the SMD drive (a Fujitsu 2312) in
it failed. At power up, the drive spins up and when it attempts to load
the heads, there's a loud *clunk* and the drive then quickly spins
down. (If anyone has any bright ideas, let me know...)
I have a few other SMD drives (just picked 'em up today, in fact) but
they're newer (~825mb) and the Ridge disc utilities only support a small
subset of drives (they do not support providing custom geometries,
because that would be *too easy*.)
Here are the disks it lists as supported; some of these are pretty
insane (CDC 9762? Really? Not sure about the Pertecs either...) but
the Fujitsu's aren't entirely out of the question:
Fujitsu:
2351A (Eagle, don't I wish)
2322
2333
2312
2344
Priam:
806
807
Pertec:
DX 300
DX 332
DX 548
DX 199
DX 265
DX 365
CDC:
9766
9762
Anyone have one of the above they'd be willing to sell/trade/etc?
Thanks as always,
Josh
I managed to get an RD54 going again (a different one to the one I was
having trouble with recently). However, if I try to back it up, the backup
is slow, I get quite a few read errors, and it often makes the beeping sound
that it makes when you first power it on.
Clearly the disk is not that well, but I wonder if anyone knows what exactly
the beep means? Is it a signal that it has reached the correct rotational
speed, or that it has re-calibrated the track position, or something else?
Regards
Rob
I've uploaded some photos from the 2015 DEC Legacy event:
http://wickensonline.co.uk/declegacy/image
Had a great time - already looking forward to the next one. Many thanks to the
presenters (local and remote) and everyone who attended.
Regards, Mark.
p.s. yes, I will try and get a better gallery tool embedded into the DEC
Legacy site. The drupal one I'm currently using sucks.
Hi all, as part of a recent purchase of a group of DEC manuals, I have some
duplicates, which are going free to a good home. (I'd prefer it if they went
to people who didn't have any copies of the manual in question, but I'm not
hard and fast on that.) They are:
EB-26078-41 Microcomputer Products Handbook (1985)
EB-20912-18 Microcomputers and Memories Handbook (1982)
EB-28251-20 Terminals and Communications Handbook (1980)
Email me if you want one. (I will, of course, need your address! :-)
Noel
A few people asking for SMD Drives model specific. What models?
Best regards,
Ed Hogan
Unimetrix Corporation
20371 Lake Forest Drive
Suite A-7
Lake Forest, CA 92630
Phone: 949-215-2475 x101
Toll Free: 800-633-9955 x101
FAX: 949-215-2472
Email: ehogan at unimetrix.com
Web: www.unimetrix.com <http://www.unimetrix.com/>
THIS COMMUNICATION MAY CONTAIN CONFIDENTIAL AND/OR OTHERWISE PROPRIETARY
MATERIAL and is thus for use only by the intended recipient. If you received
this in error, please contact the sender and delete the e-mail and its
attachments from all computers.
Hi! All the work is done! The printer's gone, but the unit is fully functional. I built a bus terminator and today I found a disk controller able to write FM/SD (the first disk track is always formatted that way) togethet my repaired Siemens FDD200P. I had two disk images (utils and diags) from the Stuttgart Museum, but the utils one appears to be in German language. Do you have an english image of the util disk or other 5120 related software? Thanks!
> From: Al Kossow
> a fairly long article in the Dec 8, 1986 Computerworld
Sorry, which page? I looked in that issue for the article using the 'Search'
function, but couldn't find it?
Noel
> From: Roe Peterson
> There is a product, can't remember the name. It's basically dental
> floss for dentures, and comes in individual strings about 3 inches long
> with a cleaning tip at one end.
I found something that sounds like this; it's called "Superfloss" (OralB
product); they are about 10" long, with a 6" section in the middle that looks
like a miniature pipe cleaner.
Speaking of pipe cleaners, I also tried using them. They were a bit too big
to get through the space, but there's something called "Chenille Stems"
(Fibre Craft product), available in craft stores, which is like a light gauge
pipe cleaner, but with longer 'pile'. It won't go through as it, but if you
trim the pile, it will go through most slots (there is component variation,
and for some blocks, the gap between the block and the PCB is much smaller).
> From: Tothwolf
> Could you use an aquarium pump and a long airstone / bubbler to help
> clean the boards using aeration?
I'm not sure that would get off the impacted dirt. (At least, more so than a
long soak, and then water jet.)
> Or, maybe get in there with a Waterpik?
I did try and find a small pressure washer type thing, but the smallest I
could find was ... still pretty big. Maybe a Waterpik would be more the
backplane's size..
Noel
Hi everyone,
I'm looking for a dump (or the real floppy!) of the ASM-48 assembler
that ran on Intel MDS-2 systems. It seems that it is very rare (maybe it
didn't sell too well back in its days). After a few days of googling I
still have no idea of the Intel part-number for it. Other assemblers
(e.g. ASM80) are much more common.
The reason I'm looking for it is to re-implement the firmware in the PIO
processor (a 8041A) of the MDS-2 emulator I'm writing for MESS. I
thought it would be a nice idea to write the firmware by using the
system itself: it is a development system after all!
I think I've no hope of finding an image of the original firmware. The
original PIO is a masked ROM version that Intel produced for itself. The
only way to dump it, I guess, is by decapping and photographing the die.
By the way, if you are interested, check my preliminary version of the
emulator (imds2 in 0.160 release of MESS): it's not complete (PIO it's
not there, for example) but it can run all ISIS-II sw I could find.
I hope I'm not "offending" anyone in this forum by mentioning an
emulator, it looks like you are mostly focused on real (vintage) hardware..
Just out of curiosity: is there anyone among you who owns a MDS-2 system?
Thanks!
-- F.Ulivi
I've checked Bitsavers, but no dice. There didn't appear to be a
section for Computer Consoles Inc, the original manufacturer, and
there's nothing in either the Harris or the ICL sections (both of
which sold rebadged machines). Anyone information you guys might have
on this machine would be much appreciated. I'm especially looking for
a programming guide, or anything which might provide information on
the ISA. I've heard of it being describing as somewhat VAXoid, but I
haven't ever seen any reliable information as to what its instruction
set actually looked like. The machine is of historical interest for
being the first architecture, IIRC, that BSD4.3 was supported on.
Otherwise, it seems to be rather obscure. I've searched everywhere,
and no one seems to have much on it. But I figured if anyone did, it
would be you guys.
Thanks for reading!
Back in November I dropped in on a list member's moving giveaway and
came away with some DEC stuff, among which was a DEC Professional 350
with keyboard and monitor. As the previous owner informed me, the
video isn't working; there's no picture on the monitor, but there's
visible sync lines, and the diagnostic lights on the back of the unit
indicate an error with the bitmap graphics card. I'm pretty sure it's
an issue with the card and not the slot, since the error moves with
the card when I install it in one of the other slots, but I'm not sure
what to look for on the card itself - nothing is socketed, so it's not
chip creep, and the card connector looks to be in good shape.
Does anybody have any advice for diagnosing and repairing this? I'd
really like to get it working. Failing that, does anybody have a spare
for the video card? (It's DEC part number 54-15138.) I've got a
Rainbow I'd be willing to trade for a working one (base unit only - I
don't have the facilities to test it, but according to the owner it
was in working condition.)
Hi
A computer club in northern Sweden (Lule?) is clearing out some storage
rooms. I'm not the owner and not directly responsible for this (although
I'm involved). Shipping will _not_ be possible, but things that people
have interest in can be stored for "a while".
Here is a list of things heading for the scrapper:
Unibus- and BI-bus boards (I'm will try to save these)
1/2"-tapes
2x DEC7000
RX01-floppies
DEC5500 (labled ellen.lnt.dec.com)
Vax 4000/300
A few RA90
MV3900+RA82+RL02
Sun-mice and Sun-SCSI-cables (lots)
Annex3 Terminal Server
VAXserver 3100
VAXstation 3100
Vax 4000/90
2x VAXstation 3100/76
Vax 4000/60
Infoserver 100
Sun CD-drive
Mikrovax 3800
CI-cable
2x RF215 (disk towers)
Mikrovax? 640QR?
Vax 4000/500
HSC90
TU81+RA82
11/750 no PSU
SDI cables
2 st Hawk-drives (ND511).
Boards for Nord-100.
Teleray terminal
2 Nord-10 CPU-boxes?
There is also a VAX 8354 with RA72 that I'm going try and save myself,
but I can't fit the cabinet in my garage. So if anyone seriously wants
this, I'll let it go.
There is also two RP07 that might get a new home locally, but it's not
decided yet.
The list might grow or shrink depending on what people claim or not.
Here are some images:
http://brain.brokenbrain.se/skrot_dh1/
Regards,
Pontus.
http://trixter.oldskool.org/2015/04/07/8088-mph-we-break-all-your-emulators/
This is a demo for the original 4.77MHz 8088 IBM PC with CGA. No
sound card, no hard disk, but 640kB of RAM.
It's astounding, from the music to the 256-colour graphics. An amazing
piece of work.
--
Liam Proven ? Profile: http://lproven.livejournal.com/profile
Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? GMail/G+/Twitter/Flickr/Facebook: lproven
MSN: lproven at hotmail.com ? Skype/AIM/Yahoo/LinkedIn: liamproven
Cell/Mobiles: +44 7939-087884 (UK) ? +420 702 829 053 (?R)
> From: Roe Peterson
> There are very likely lead bars in the bottom rear of the rack
I recall finding one in some machine (don't remember what, now); they are
so the thing won't fall over when something is extended/swung out.
Noel
Hi all,
Is a SM ior Schematics for an Kalok Octagon Series RLL Harddisks out there?
..don't think that such a thing exists but I would have asked.
That are the loud 30MB RLL 3,5" full height Harddisks. I have one that
spins up, steps hardly against the internal stopper for a while and spins
down again.
Lookedwith a scope to the stepper phases and they aren't looking normal at
all. The Drivers are 4 IRFR110 driven from 7406's...
Would use that disk in a CP/M System with an OMTI5520 Controller.
Regards,
Holm
--
Technik Service u. Handel Tiffe, www.tsht.de, Holm Tiffe,
Freiberger Stra?e 42, 09600 Obersch?na, USt-Id: DE253710583
www.tsht.de, info at tsht.de, Fax +49 3731 74200, Mobil: 0172 8790 741
True or False:
The ZFS file system wastes more space on an average file allocation than
the ram in a typical PDP-8.
At the very least this question might give someone a reason to learn a
little bit about ZFS.
--
Doug Ingraham
PDP-8 SN 1175
I'm trying to determine if DEC used any standards when choosing colors
for the terminal connections on their power supply systems. I have a
non DEC 'DECTape' drive I'm in the process of bringing back from the
dead and am troubled by the manufacturers use of colors on their
terminals. Some make sense: 'black', 'white', 'green' for primary
color, although there is a block of 'red' used as an alternate
connection to the 'black' (USA: 'hot' leg) of the primary (115VAC)
connection.
Others include 'blue', 'yellow' and 'orange'.
I'm familiar with DEC's use of 'red' for +5, and 'orange' for +15 (or
perhaps it was +12) but these do not seem to be the choices here.
I've consulted my list of 'small computer handbooks' and 'interfacing'
DEC books but haven't found anything useful. Also search google with
many many permutations.
Any ideas? Perhaps the manufacturer just pulled some out of their hat.
Thanks,
Gary
The Atlanta Historical Computing Society is selling t-shirts for our show
on May 2nd and 3rd. They're available on Kickstarter, but if you would
prefer, send me an email and we can work out alternate payment options.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/20859909/help-fund-the-vintage-compute…
Right now, our speakers include Jason Scott, Robert Uiterwyk, Malcolm
Macleod, and several podcasts. Our theme this year is celebrating the big
birthdays, including the PDP-8, the Altair 8800, and the Amiga 1000.
Also, if anyone's interested in exhibiting, let me know. More info about
the show at vintage.org.
Thanks,
Kyle
I'm trying to determine if DEC used any standards when choosing colors
for the power terminal connections on their power supply systems. I
have a non DEC 'DECTape' drive I'm in the process of bringing back from
the dead and am troubled by the manufacturers use of colors on their
terminals. Some make sense: 'black', 'white', 'green' for primary
color, although there is a block of 'red' used as an alternate
connection to the 'black' (USA: 'hot' leg) of the primary (115VAC)
connection.
Others include 'blue', 'yellow' and 'orange'.
I'm familiar with DEC's use of 'red' for +5, and 'orange' for +15 (or
perhaps it was +12) but these do not seem to be the choices here.
I've consulted my list of 'small computer handbooks' and 'interfacing'
DEC books but haven't found anything useful. Also search google with
many many permutations.
Any ideas? Perhaps the manufacturer just pulled some out of their hat.
Thanks,
Gary
The PDP16 had a constants card circa 1972 or so. The constants card was
basically cores with hand threaded wire done by the customer, and acted
like a ROM. I don't remember the capacity, but IIRC it was about 16 bytes.
> Did the PDP14 (or any machine of that era) ever use hand-threaded (by the
> end user) core boards as ROM?
>
> tnx.
>
> g.
>> On Thu, 9 Apr 2015, Noel Chiappa wrote:
>> The real problem is that there's 'grup' (a Dave Clark neologism) in
>> the thin space between the plastic contact pin housing blocks and the
>> PCB. Needless to say, one can't take the PCB off to get in there...
>>
>> So my plan of action is to stick them in water for a couple of days,
>> and then use a water jet to try and get down in the thin gap between
>> the contact blocks and the PCB, to clean it out.
Hi, all, thanks for all the suggestions: alas, they won't really help with
this part of the problem, since the gap between the PCB and the pin contact
housing blocks is only about 1mm (less in some cases) and there's no way I
know of to get any kind of effective brush into a gap that small.
Maybe something akin to dental floss, but that would be about it. (String
might be a good idea, it has a rougher surface and might be better at removing
impacted grime, plus it's wider, so will do more width on each pass.)
The Simple Green might be something useful to add to the bath, though. I
generally use compressed air to dry boards (although I've heard rumours of
possible static problems from this, I've never had a problem), which is easy
for me since I have a 5HP compressor in the basement. It mostly blows the
water (along with any dissolved minerals, although I usually try and finish
with a douse of distilled) right off the board.
> From: Tothwolf
> There /is/ actually a source for replacement gold fingers (and copper
> trace material), but that sort of stuff can get expensive if you need
> to replace a lot of them.
Actually, I wouldn't try and replace the traces; I'd just use wire, and solder
the ends onto the remains. (I'm more into functionality than cosmetics. If
anyone is really intense about the cosmetics, please let me know, I'd be
interesting in hiring you to fix the two boards... :-)
The gold contact fingers are another matter, and for them I thank you for
your very useful pointer:
> You might try contacting http://circuitmedic.com/ and see if they have
> any replacement gold fingers the correct width.
I have yet to look into this, but I'm sure they'll have something that will
serve. The standard DEC contact fingers are 2.2mm wide, but some off-brand
boards use fingers as narrow as 1.6mm, so I expect they'll have _something_
I can use.
Noel
> From: Johnny Billquist
>> Remember the jumpers I found on the 11/84 backplane? They can turn the
>> PMI section (AFAICT) into a real QBUS.
> I don't remember any jumpers.
http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/2015-February/003756.html
>> For QBUS _memory_, it should 'just work', in the same way that you can
>> plug an M8190 into a Q/CD backplane with some QBUS memory, and it will 'just
>> work'. (I.e. the M8190 will automatically do QBUS memory cycles if
>> that's the kind of memory that's out there.)
> I'll believe that when you plug the Qbus memory *before* the CPU in a
> Q/CD backplane.
But the QBUS part of _any_ QBUS backplane is not 'directional' in the same
way the CD part of the backplane in an ordinary Q/CD backplane is. (Note that
the 11/84 backplane's CD section is _not_ 'directional' the way a normal Q/CD
backplane's CD section is. See:
http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/2015-February/003757.html
for more.) So for plain QBUS memory, it doesn't matter where it is in the
QBUS backplane, in relation to the CPU.
Noel
> From: Johnny Billquist
>> a _system_ with an M8190, a KTJ11 (M8191), and no PMI memory, only
>> regular QBUS memory? (Not sure if this will work... but it should,
>> I'll try it soon and see.
> Should not work, as far as I know. The CPU bus on an 11/84 is always
> PMI.
We had a prior discussion about this. Remember the jumpers I found on the
11/84 backplane? They can turn the PMI section (AFAICT) into a real QBUS. But
that's if one wanted to use a QBUS _device_ in an 11/84 backplane (in the PMI
part, of course).
For QBUS _memory_, it should 'just work', in the same way that you can plug
an M8190 into a Q/CD backplane with some QBUS memory, and it will 'just
work'. (I.e. the M8190 will automatically do QBUS memory cycles if that's the
kind of memory that's out there.)
Now, whether the _KTJ11_ will work properly with QBUS memory instead of PMI
- no idea on that one! :-)
Noel
> From: Pete Turnbull
> Are you confusing it with a KDJ11-A ... But this is a KDJ11-B
Nope. Have several of both (IYWR, it was my looking at my various M8190's
that led me to the conclusion that all M8190's, no matter the version, can
do PMI).
> Basically what makes the difference is whether it's using PMI memory or
> QBus memory. ... If you change the config to not use PMI, an 11/83
> becomes an 11/73.
After thinking about this for a while, the terminology does now make sense to
me, if it's applied to _systems_, not _boards_.
An 11/73 is a _system_ with no PMI memory usage (one can of course plug PMI
memory into a system with an M8192, but that won't make it use it, i.e.
become an 11/83). An 11/83 is a _system_ with PMI memory in use (an M8190,
plus PMI memory).
But I still think of the _cards_ as either an '11/73 CPU' (M8192) or
'11/83-84 CPU' (M8190).
The '11-83/84' part does lead to an interesting question: what do we call a
_system_ with an M8190, a KTJ11 (M8191), and no PMI memory, only regular QBUS
memory? (Not sure if this will work... but it should, I'll try it soon and
see. Also, this part is for fun, not serious!)
Analogizing to the 73/83 distinction, one might say that it's not an 84, but
a '74'... but that number is already taken! :-)
Noel
Did the PDP14 (or any machine of that era) ever use hand-threaded (by the
end user) core boards as ROM?
tnx.
g.
--
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.
Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies.
ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_!
Any Amiga geeks out there? I picked up a pair of Amiga A1000 systems a
couple of weeks ago. Both are Revision 6 boards (going by IC dates, one was
likely built in October of '85, the other in January of '86). However,
bigbookofamigahardware.com claims that rev. 6 boards had copper traces and
the later rev A board were tin - but in this case the earlier of my two
boards is tin (while the later one is indeed copper).
Just wondering if I have a bit of an anomaly (and the above site's
correct), of if the reality is that rev. 6 boards routinely appear in both
copper and tin?
s/n on the early system is 6000146, the later one is 1165109; I have no
idea what production numbers were like (anyone?) but I'm assuming that
there's some form of plant number involved in the leading digit(s).
cheers
Jules
OK, long shot. I gave one of these away years ago and I wish I hadn't;
anyone have a Moniterm Viking 2400 monitor they'd part with? This is a
large (24") B&W monitor from the late 80s. I still have the Mac Nubus
card to drive it...
Thanks as always,
Josh
On Wed, Apr 1, 2015 at 2:54 PM, John Foust <jfoust at threedee.com> wrote:
> At 11:48 PM 3/31/2015, Josh Dersch wrote:
>>OK, long shot. I gave one of these away years ago and I wish I hadn't; anyone have a Moniterm Viking 2400 monitor they'd part with? This is a large (24") B&W monitor from the late 80s. I still have the Mac Nubus card to drive it...
>
> They were used in the Amiga and Atari markets, too, weren't they,
> with specialized video cards? Or was that only their 19" monitors?
I have the 19" Viking greyscale monitor with the corresponding Amiga
card (1008 x 1008 w/quarter-screen panelized refresh) It was great
for writing code. I don't remember anything larger from the day.
-ethan
> From: John Wilson
> Is there a reason why people don't wear name tags at VCF-E? ... no one
> seems to have them on and I'd feel like a tool bringing my own and
> being the only one.
Bring yours - it won't be the only one! I was planning on bringing one of my
old IETF ones in case there weren't 'official' VCFE ones.
Everyone else, please bring one! (And maybe someone could bring a spool of
those stick-on temporary ones, for those without.) Without them, you'll never
know if you just walked past someone you know well online....
Noel
Big announcement!
Wes Clark is unable to attend VCF East due to health.
Naturally I hit the panic button. Wes, after all, was already our Plan B
after Ted Nelson backed out, also due to personal matters.
But we scrambled really hard in the past two days and landed K. :)
I thought I'd drop a note after visiting the LCM on Saturday. I cannot
endorse this museum enough, I had a complete blast.
I latched onto a tour with a new docent by the name of Aaron who was truly
the nicest chap - so much so we ended up BS'ing for 40 minutes after
the tour. In a manner in which the other person isn't trying to get away,
no less, which is probably novel for most of us.
To be able to monkey about with a multi-rack 8, or a Nova was very
cool. To stand next to a running Sigma9 or in front of a 13-rack KI10... I
highly, highly recommend it to anyone who visits the area.
Also, Rich, I see you:
http://kiwigeek.com/misc/LCM2015/IMG_20150404_150503257.jpg
- JP
It shouldn't be too difficult to figure out the switches. Does the card work at all with all the switches in the open position? It would help if you could provide decent pics of both sides of the board.
Hoping to help...
> From: Bill Degnan
> These are best for someone who has experience cleaning a "barn find"
> ...
> * items contains/contained a rodent nest.
Those who missed out on this deal may find this sequel comforting.
There was one aspect of this (which Bill alluded to somewhat eliptically -
perhaps out of delicacy, or perhaps he assumed that anyone who'd done one of
these would already realize the full implications :-), but which didn't
really impress itself upon me until I started the ride home - at which point
I started to get olfactory clues. Yep, some of you know what I'm talking
about.
Animal urine.
Of the three boxes, one (the '11/44' - it was actually just a BA11-K) was
totally sodden inside (those nests are basically giant sponges), and one of
the 11/34's was half-sodden. The thing about animal urine that's really a
problem is not the smell, or the mess - it's that it's _incredibly_ corrosive.
>From the condition of a couple of the cards which had gotten the worst, I
think there was actually some galvanic activity between the copper traces,
and something else - maybe the iron in the chassis? Traces were quite
literally eaten right off the cards. You can see the trace heading towards
one of the gold-plated contact fingers, and then - poof! - it disappears.
Dozens of traces on those two cards have big gaps in them.
Although now that I think about it, it couldn't have been galvanic activity
which dissolved the copper in the traces; if I remember my inorganic chem
correctly, iron is above copper on the galvanic activity scale. But anyway,
Also, totally amazingly, quite a few of the gold-plated contact fingers also
have damage! One is quite bad - although luckily I think there's a patch left
where the contact would be, so that can probably be saved. Whatever was going
on must have eaten the copper out from underneath, and then the gold just
washed away.
So I think all those traces can be repaired, if there's ever a use for that
interface (an RH11). Just a lot of wires to solder in....
The other problem is the backplanes. DEC boxes put the backplanes at the
bottom, so these nests were resting on the backplanes. Having cleaned them off
(well, stage 1 cleaning), I _think_ that, amazingly enough, the contact pins
are OK. (Now that I think about it, they are tin-plated - so there's the other
end of the galvanic activity. Ah, well, better to eat the traces than the
contact pins - those would be almost _impossible_ to repair.)
The real problem is that there's 'grup' (a Dave Clark neologism) in the thin
space between the plastic contact pin housing blocks and the PCB. Needless to
say, one can't take the PCB off to get in there...
So my plan of action is to stick them in water for a couple of days, and
then use a water jet to try and get down in the thin gap between the contact
blocks and the PCB, to clean it out.
Does this sound OK? I can't think of a reason why immersing a backplane in
fresh water for a couple of days would do it any harm, but maybe I'm missing
something?
I just think it's critical to recovering these to get as much out of that
area as I possibly can. If an open develops somehow, well, that can easily be
fixed with a wire. But a short.... you're screwed.
Moral of the story: if you're going to store your antique computers in a barn
- make sure to keep the rodents out!
Noel
> From: Pete Turnbull
>> Technically, that's an 11/83 CPU...
> Nope, it's only 15MHz ... and the MSV11-Q memory isn't PMI, so it's an
> 11/73.
A discussion as to whether the addition of second board can change a first
board from an A to a B would I suspect be non-productive, so I will pass over
that point. :-)
One thing that I am curious about is the 15MHz aspect: what did DEC (if you
recall) call a 15MHz M8190 paired with PMI memory? (Recalling our prior
discussion, which I am too lazy to look up and give a pointer to, about how
all the M8190's can apparently do PMI.) Did they (or would they) have
regarded that as an 11/83, or did only the 18MHz version get the 11/83
moniker? (Too many different configurations - 15/18, PMI/non-PMI - and not
enough names!)
Noel
> From: Pete Turnbull
> Does anyone have a description of the switch settings for a QBus
> MSV11-M (aka MSV1M) memory card (M7506)?
> .. I can't find the manual ... or any useful notes anywhere.
How odd. I've looked through every plausible DEC QBUS document I've got, and
none mention the MSV11-M! They all jump straight from the MSV11-L to the
MSV11-P. E.g. the "Microcomputer Products Handbook" from 1985 has the
MSV11-L, then the MSV11-P, then the MSV11-Q. (Although it doesn't have the
MSV11-J either, though - although my MSV11-J manual says the first version
was '85.)
I wonder why? Was the MSV11-M a later card? (Well, it must have been...)
There's a Micro-Note (#28) from June '85 which mentions the MSV11-M, so it's
not _that_ late. However, e.g. the "Supermicrosystems Handbook", from 1986,
mentions the MSV11-J, then the MSV11-Q, then the MSV11-P!
I wonder why they left it out? It provides up to 1MB on a dual card, whereas
the MSV11-P only does 512KB on a quad card? So it's not as if it were already
obsolete by 1986 - it's clearly better than something they _did_ include!
Very odd.
Noel
Hi
I'm trying to save a MicroVAX 8350. Seen to the left here:
http://brain.brokenbrain.se/skrot_dh1/20150407_100417.jpg
It's in a DEC half-rack which I sadly don't have room for. So I will ask
to have the CPU module only and any specific rackheaders (for ethernet
and other things, if any).
Is there anything else about that rack specific to the 8350 ?
I have RA72 disks already. And other DEC racks to mount it in.
/P
I have finally managed to get my hands on a TRS-80 Model 1. Trouble is, it
came without a monitor. I have been doing some searching to see if I can
find out what kind of monitor it is and I am left unsure. All I have found
so far is a statement which says it is a TV without a tuner. I am not sure
what that means. I still have a CRT TV, can that be made to work, or have I
bought something that I can't use?
Thanks
Rob
Progress is good on the RL02-USB controller. I've gotten complete operation working as expected with the usual tools for disk access (badblocks, dd, etc.), and SIMH can access the real packs via the controller's block device (i.e. attach rl0 /dev/sdX). Of course, this is only true for RL02K-EF (error-free) packs. The common RL02K-DC packs (those with identified bad blocks from the factory) are another story.
The issue is most obvious when backing up and restoring disk images. Suppose I backup a pack with 1 bad sector. I have two choices of what to do with the bad sector (specifically if it's a bad header), I could skip the sector (reporting an IO error), or I could report all zeros for the sector.
Skipping the sector is a bad idea because the logical address of all sectors after it will shift down by one. This will make the disk image not work correctly with SIMH, or anything else for that matter, because most filesystems address things by physical block (Please correct me if I'm wrong here). Remember, we're at the device level (/dev/sda) not the partition level (/dev/sda1).
Returning all zeros for bad sectors will preserve the block numbers of following sectors and work correctly with SIMH, but trying to restore the resulting image to another physical pack will probably be impossible given the destination disk pack has bad sectors of its own in different spots.
The usual trick of having the controller re-map the bad sectors will not work because the platters in the RL02 are removable. Writing some mapping index on the disk pack or holding back sectors in reserve will break compatibility with the original systems (PDP8s/11s/VAXes) and all their software (an unacceptable solution).
I think I've come to the following conclusions given the restrictions above:
- Creating and Restoring images with EF packs is unrestricted
- SIMH operation with EF packs (online and images) will work perfectly
- Creating images of DC packs will work with SIMH if I return zeros for the bad blocks
- Online use of DC packs work with SIMH assuming no new bad blocks have formed since the bad block index was written
- If new bad blocks have formed in a pack, SIMH will have to be modified so its RL(V)11 can receive error information from the drive, otherwise it will incorrectly handle the recovery
- Restoring images on DC packs will require special software that can move data around the bad-blocks (or a linux RT-11 filesystem driver *wink*)
- Using a modern filesystem on EF/DC packs is unrestricted (because they can identify and manage bad blocks on their own)
First, does all of this seem reasonable?
I vaguely remember reading about a program on RT-11 you would run (before?) backing up the filesystem. What was this program? How did it work? Did it make the data position independent?
Christopher
I recently received a new BDV11 and booted it up on my 11/23 with whatever ROM it has on board.
It displays the following menu, and I was curious if anyone recognizes it. Just for fun, I'd just like to find out what sort of system this board lived in previously.
Thanks!
<[2J[6;1H PRIMITIVE MENU (V-01)
1. MCR MODE
2. UIS MODE
3. LSI DIAGS
ENTER MENU NUMBER: _
--
Ben Sinclair
ben at bensinclair.com
I am working on the H7104 power supplies for the VAX-11/750 now. The 5V had
a short circuit main switch transistor and a output rectifier diode that
also was a short circuit. Now it works fine into a 0.5 ohm dummy load.
Then when checking the 2.5V supply it had two out of three output
rectifiers short circuited.
So what is it with these rectifiers? They are Unitrode USD5096F but
unfortunately I cannot find any data sheet for them. I asked in another
forum and someone even checked the Unitrode data book for 84-85 but didn't
find the part!
However looking in the print set the diode is listed as 1114197-00 with the
remark "60 AMP POWER SCHOTTKY DIODE"
Is the Unitrode USD5096F a 60 Amp diode? This link tells me it is a 35A
diode:
http://www.electronicsurplus.com/unitrode-usd5096f-diode-35amp-35v-piv
and so does this link:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/35-Amp-35-Volt-Stud-Mounted-Diode-with-Wire-and-Lug…
Is there anyone that can enlighten me here? Is USD509F a 35 Amp part and
then why have DEC used parts that is not as specified in the print set?
/Mattis
Hi there
I am based in the UK (Edinburgh) and have been seeking the last couple of
years a working/non-working MicroPDP 11/23, 73 or 93 in preferably a BA-23,
but anything definitely considered.
These rarely come up on eBay (although I am tempted to by a working
MicroPDP 11/73 in a BA-23 from eBay US for $1200, but shipping and taxes
would make this at least 50% more).
Any advice on sources of hardware in the UK/EU would be much appreciated.
I really don't want to wait many more years simply because the rarity may
mean I never get one.
Also looking for a VAXStation 3100/9x model. Again hard to find in the UK.
Many thanks
Ed
On Tue, Apr 7, 2015 at 6:00 PM, <cctalk-request at classiccmp.org> wrote:
> Send cctalk mailing list submissions to
> cctalk at classiccmp.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctalk
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> cctalk-request at classiccmp.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> cctalk-owner at classiccmp.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of cctalk digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: BA23 Chassis available in Lexington KY - Taken
> (keith at saracom.com)
> 2. Re: BA23 Chassis available in Lexington KY - Taken (Paul Anderson)
> 3. Looking for.... (Jay West)
> 4. RL02-USB Controller Status/Problem (Christopher Parish)
> 5. Seeking H7861 Power Supply (PDP 11/23+) (Cory Heisterkamp)
> 6. Re: Seeking H7861 Power Supply (PDP 11/23+) (Noel Chiappa)
> 7. Re: Seeking H7861 Power Supply (PDP 11/23+) (Jacob Ritorto)
> 8. Re: RL02-USB Controller Status/Problem (Eric Smith)
> 9. Re: RL02-USB Controller Status/Problem (Eric Smith)
> 10. Re: RL02-USB Controller Status/Problem (Don North)
> 11. Re: RL02-USB Controller Status/Problem (Don North)
> 12. Re: RD54 Stopped Spinning (shadoooo)
> 13. Re: RL02-USB Controller Status/Problem (Johnny Billquist)
> 14. RE: RL02-USB Controller Status/Problem (Christopher Parish)
> 15. Re: RL02-USB Controller Status/Problem (Pete Turnbull)
> 16. Re: RL02-USB Controller Status/Problem (Pete Turnbull)
> 17. Re: RL02-USB Controller Status/Problem (Pete Turnbull)
> 18. Re: RL02-USB Controller Status/Problem (Pete Turnbull)
> 19. Re: RL02-USB Controller Status/Problem (Paul Koning)
> 20. Re: RL02-USB Controller Status/Problem (Johnny Billquist)
> 21. Re: RL02-USB Controller Status/Problem (Johnny Billquist)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2015 13:20:22 -0400
> From: keith at saracom.com
> To: cctech at classiccmp.org
> Subject: Re: BA23 Chassis available in Lexington KY - Taken
> Message-ID: <74a272e1cd6f7dc12ff7f3a803b3c822 at saracom.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain
>
>
>
> OK, I think all of them have been claimed now. If not I will report. Now
> to see what else is in the shed.
>
> thanks
>
> ------------------------------ Message: 16 Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2015
> 11:06:31 -0400 From: Jacob Ritorto <jacob.ritorto at gmail.com> To:
> "General Discussion: On-Topic Posts" <cctech at classiccmp.org> Subject:
> Re: BA23 Chassis available in Lexington KY Message-ID:
> <CAHYQbfBp7WuiR5qSfeR39tDMBQKGHvg2Vk8vw5FGgewSOjBzug at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hey Max, I'll take a couple.
> You're a six-hour's drive from me, so it'll take me a sec to figure out
> when. How's Friday for you? On Sun, Apr 5, 2015 at 6:47 PM,
> <keith at saracom.com> wrote:
>
> >> Hello, I am in the process of moving and need to pare down my spare
> parts collection. I have several BA23 chassis with power supplies. I do not
> know the condition as they have been stored in my shed for years. They do
> not include modules or outer shells. If you pickup in Lexington KY, they
> are free. Thanks Max
> > ************************************
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2015 16:23:42 -0500
> From: Paul Anderson <useddec at gmail.com>
> To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
> <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> Subject: Re: BA23 Chassis available in Lexington KY - Taken
> Message-ID:
> <CACwhfuMTOfs_Q0bQgE5=
> o11LvsLG3hdkh858H0JNvmswy4ggQg at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> If anyone needs any boards for them, feel free to contact me off list.
>
> Thanks, Paul
>
> On Mon, Apr 6, 2015 at 12:20 PM, <keith at saracom.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > OK, I think all of them have been claimed now. If not I will report. Now
> > to see what else is in the shed.
> >
> > thanks
> >
> > ------------------------------ Message: 16 Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2015
> > 11:06:31 -0400 From: Jacob Ritorto <jacob.ritorto at gmail.com> To:
> > "General Discussion: On-Topic Posts" <cctech at classiccmp.org> Subject:
> > Re: BA23 Chassis available in Lexington KY Message-ID:
> > <CAHYQbfBp7WuiR5qSfeR39tDMBQKGHvg2Vk8vw5FGgewSOjBzug at mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hey Max, I'll take a couple.
> > You're a six-hour's drive from me, so it'll take me a sec to figure out
> > when. How's Friday for you? On Sun, Apr 5, 2015 at 6:47 PM,
> > <keith at saracom.com> wrote:
> >
> > >> Hello, I am in the process of moving and need to pare down my spare
> > parts collection. I have several BA23 chassis with power supplies. I do
> not
> > know the condition as they have been stored in my shed for years. They do
> > not include modules or outer shells. If you pickup in Lexington KY, they
> > are free. Thanks Max
> > > ************************************
> >
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2015 19:37:24 -0500
> From: "Jay West" <jwest at classiccmp.org>
> To: <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> Subject: Looking for....
> Message-ID: <000d01d070cb$04a0bf60$0de23e20$(a)classiccmp.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> I need another operational HP 7970E mag tape controller (13183 - 2 board
> set). It appears that the spare board sets I have are 13181 which I believe
> is only for the 7970A/B. All my drives are 7970E, so is there any chance
> someone has a 7970A/B but has a 13183 and would like to swap my 13181 for
> it? J Or if anyone has a spare 13183 they want to sell/trade...
>
>
>
> Best,
>
>
>
> J
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2015 22:54:39 +0000
> From: Christopher Parish <christopher.parish at parishcomputers.com>
> To: General Discussion: On-Topic Posts ?[cctech at classiccmp.org]?
> <cctech at classiccmp.org>
> Subject: RL02-USB Controller Status/Problem
> Message-ID:
>
> <639FFF5F324E6D409F42CF2B2F3BB56AB0FF00DB at MBX022-E1-NJ-4.exch022.domain.local
> >
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1256"
>
> Progress is good on the RL02-USB controller. I've gotten complete
> operation working as expected with the usual tools for disk access
> (badblocks, dd, etc.), and SIMH can access the real packs via the
> controller's block device (i.e. attach rl0 /dev/sdX). Of course, this is
> only true for RL02K-EF (error-free) packs. The common RL02K-DC packs (those
> with identified bad blocks from the factory) are another story.
>
>
> The issue is most obvious when backing up and restoring disk images.
> Suppose I backup a pack with 1 bad sector. I have two choices of what to do
> with the bad sector (specifically if it's a bad header), I could skip the
> sector (reporting an IO error), or I could report all zeros for the sector.
>
>
> Skipping the sector is a bad idea because the logical address of all
> sectors after it will shift down by one. This will make the disk image not
> work correctly with SIMH, or anything else for that matter, because most
> filesystems address things by physical block (Please correct me if I'm
> wrong here). Remember, we're at the device level (/dev/sda) not the
> partition level (/dev/sda1).
>
>
> Returning all zeros for bad sectors will preserve the block numbers of
> following sectors and work correctly with SIMH, but trying to restore the
> resulting image to another physical pack will probably be impossible given
> the destination disk pack has bad sectors of its own in different spots.
>
>
> The usual trick of having the controller re-map the bad sectors will not
> work because the platters in the RL02 are removable. Writing some mapping
> index on the disk pack or holding back sectors in reserve will break
> compatibility with the original systems (PDP8s/11s/VAXes) and all their
> software (an unacceptable solution).
>
>
> I think I've come to the following conclusions given the restrictions
> above:
>
>
> - Creating and Restoring images with EF packs is unrestricted
>
> - SIMH operation with EF packs (online and images) will work perfectly
>
> - Creating images of DC packs will work with SIMH if I return zeros for
> the bad blocks
>
> - Online use of DC packs work with SIMH assuming no new bad blocks have
> formed since the bad block index was written
>
> - If new bad blocks have formed in a pack, SIMH will have to be modified
> so its RL(V)11 can receive error information from the drive, otherwise it
> will incorrectly handle the recovery
>
> - Restoring images on DC packs will require special software that can move
> data around the bad-blocks (or a linux RT-11 filesystem driver *wink*)
>
> - Using a modern filesystem on EF/DC packs is unrestricted (because they
> can identify and manage bad blocks on their own)
>
>
> First, does all of this seem reasonable?
>
>
> I vaguely remember reading about a program on RT-11 you would run
> (before?) backing up the filesystem. What was this program? How did it
> work? Did it make the data position independent?
>
>
> Christopher
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2015 20:06:43 -0500
> From: Cory Heisterkamp <coryheisterkamp at gmail.com>
> To: "General Discussion: On-Topic Posts" <cctech at classiccmp.org>
> Subject: Seeking H7861 Power Supply (PDP 11/23+)
> Message-ID: <2747195F-0DE1-46FF-86A0-8342435A3C63 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> I have a PDP 11/23+ I'm attempting to bring up and discovered why I wasn't
> getting anywhere- a metal screw had gotten into the supply shorting
> *something* on the supply PCB. I'm new to DEC equipment and I'm afraid this
> supply is beyond me. If someone has one for sale (this one marked H7861),
> please let me know. It looks serviceable and is likely repairable by an
> expert so that could be an option, too.
>
> Thanks,
> Cory
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2015 00:21:32 -0400 (EDT)
> From: jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu (Noel Chiappa)
> To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
> Cc: jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu
> Subject: Re: Seeking H7861 Power Supply (PDP 11/23+)
> Message-ID: <20150407042132.A7EF618C0FB at mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
>
> > From: Cory Heisterkamp
>
> > If someone has one for sale (this one marked H7861), please let me
> > know.
>
> Someone on eBay is selling one:
>
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/150947900783
>
> They are asking $125, which is not wholly ridiculous, and will probably
> take
> slightly less. I've bought several from this seller, and they are in good
> shape.
>
> Also, at a pinch, I'm pretty sure (as in, I have looked at both closely,
> and
> verified that they have the same interfaces and physical dimensions, etc,
> so I
> think this will work, but I have yet to actually try it) an H786 would also
> work in that system. The only difference I know of is that the H7861 puts
> out
> a few more amps of +5V. No reasonably priced H786's on eBay at the moment,
> though.
>
> > It looks serviceable and is likely repairable by an expert so that
> > could be an option, too.
>
> I'd interested in buying the dead one from you (which should help offset
> the
> cost if you go for the eBay one) - please contact me off line if
> interested.
>
> Noel
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2015 00:32:20 -0400
> From: Jacob Ritorto <jacob.ritorto at gmail.com>
> To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
> <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> Subject: Re: Seeking H7861 Power Supply (PDP 11/23+)
> Message-ID:
> <
> CAHYQbfA336fXz8Ee_kThmGZKCz3r9wn8Je-rNg0-wP0TjfQtfQ at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> coupla questions as an aside on this subject:
>
> 1) Which PS is more available on commodity market?
>
> 2) Assuming H7681, do you know how to wire a chassis that expects H768 to
> work with H7681? Or vice versa?
>
> 3) How can we make what we have on hand work for a long time?
>
> Bonus 4) Is there a commodity setup available to replace this analog kit
> entirely with new stuff? (probably a new thread)
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 7, 2015 at 12:21 AM, Noel Chiappa <jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
> wrote:
>
> > > From: Cory Heisterkamp
> >
> > > If someone has one for sale (this one marked H7861), please let me
> > > know.
> >
> > Someone on eBay is selling one:
> >
> > http://www.ebay.com/itm/150947900783
> >
> > They are asking $125, which is not wholly ridiculous, and will probably
> > take
> > slightly less. I've bought several from this seller, and they are in good
> > shape.
> >
> > Also, at a pinch, I'm pretty sure (as in, I have looked at both closely,
> > and
> > verified that they have the same interfaces and physical dimensions, etc,
> > so I
> > think this will work, but I have yet to actually try it) an H786 would
> also
> > work in that system. The only difference I know of is that the H7861 puts
> > out
> > a few more amps of +5V. No reasonably priced H786's on eBay at the
> moment,
> > though.
> >
> > > It looks serviceable and is likely repairable by an expert so that
> > > could be an option, too.
> >
> > I'd interested in buying the dead one from you (which should help offset
> > the
> > cost if you go for the eBay one) - please contact me off line if
> > interested.
> >
> > Noel
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2015 23:41:48 -0600
> From: Eric Smith <spacewar at gmail.com>
> To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
> <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> Cc: General Discussion: On-Topic Posts ?[cctech at classiccmp.org]?
> <cctech at classiccmp.org>
> Subject: Re: RL02-USB Controller Status/Problem
> Message-ID:
> <CAFrGgTT+A25OBEuz3DzLaj3d=
> O5G2eYfgENNNWyhJwGH+D2c9g at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> On Mon, Apr 6, 2015 at 4:54 PM, Christopher Parish
> <christopher.parish at parishcomputers.com> wrote:
> > - Using a modern filesystem on EF/DC packs is unrestricted (because they
> can identify and manage bad blocks on their own)
>
> I'm not sure which filesystems you have in mind as "modern", but
> filesystem-level support for bad blocks has largely faded away in
> recent decades, because for many years now all disk drives have
> implemented bad block replacement internally.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2015 23:41:48 -0600
> From: Eric Smith <spacewar at gmail.com>
> To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
> <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> Cc: General Discussion: On-Topic Posts ?[cctech at classiccmp.org]?
> <cctech at classiccmp.org>
> Subject: Re: RL02-USB Controller Status/Problem
> Message-ID:
> <CAFrGgTT+A25OBEuz3DzLaj3d=
> O5G2eYfgENNNWyhJwGH+D2c9g at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> On Mon, Apr 6, 2015 at 4:54 PM, Christopher Parish
> <christopher.parish at parishcomputers.com> wrote:
> > - Using a modern filesystem on EF/DC packs is unrestricted (because they
> can identify and manage bad blocks on their own)
>
> I'm not sure which filesystems you have in mind as "modern", but
> filesystem-level support for bad blocks has largely faded away in
> recent decades, because for many years now all disk drives have
> implemented bad block replacement internally.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2015 22:53:59 -0700
> From: Don North <north at alum.mit.edu>
> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> <cctalk at classiccmp.org>, "General Discussion: On-Topic Posts
> ?[cctech at classiccmp.org]?" <cctech at classiccmp.org>
> Subject: Re: RL02-USB Controller Status/Problem
> Message-ID: <552370F7.5050500 at alum.mit.edu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1256; format=flowed
>
> Shouldn't the controller be using the DEC STD 144 bad sector replacement
> table
> in the last sector to transparently remap bad sectors such that, to the
> user,
> the -DC packs appear error free? If this were done each RL02 image should
> appear
> error-free in logical block address space as the hidden remapping of bad
> sectors
> on -DC drives would not be seen by the user (or O/S).
>
> All the other proposed ways of handling -DC bad sectors have serious
> compatibility issues.
>
> Don
>
> On 4/6/2015 3:54 PM, Christopher Parish wrote:
> > Progress is good on the RL02-USB controller. I've gotten complete
> operation working as expected with the usual tools for disk access
> (badblocks, dd, etc.), and SIMH can access the real packs via the
> controller's block device (i.e. attach rl0 /dev/sdX). Of course, this is
> only true for RL02K-EF (error-free) packs. The common RL02K-DC packs (those
> with identified bad blocks from the factory) are another story.
> >
> >
> > The issue is most obvious when backing up and restoring disk images.
> Suppose I backup a pack with 1 bad sector. I have two choices of what to do
> with the bad sector (specifically if it's a bad header), I could skip the
> sector (reporting an IO error), or I could report all zeros for the sector.
> >
> >
> > Skipping the sector is a bad idea because the logical address of all
> sectors after it will shift down by one. This will make the disk image not
> work correctly with SIMH, or anything else for that matter, because most
> filesystems address things by physical block (Please correct me if I'm
> wrong here). Remember, we're at the device level (/dev/sda) not the
> partition level (/dev/sda1).
> >
> >
> > Returning all zeros for bad sectors will preserve the block numbers of
> following sectors and work correctly with SIMH, but trying to restore the
> resulting image to another physical pack will probably be impossible given
> the destination disk pack has bad sectors of its own in different spots.
> >
> >
> > The usual trick of having the controller re-map the bad sectors will not
> work because the platters in the RL02 are removable. Writing some mapping
> index on the disk pack or holding back sectors in reserve will break
> compatibility with the original systems (PDP8s/11s/VAXes) and all their
> software (an unacceptable solution).
> >
> >
> > I think I've come to the following conclusions given the restrictions
> above:
> >
> >
> > - Creating and Restoring images with EF packs is unrestricted
> >
> > - SIMH operation with EF packs (online and images) will work perfectly
> >
> > - Creating images of DC packs will work with SIMH if I return zeros for
> the bad blocks
> >
> > - Online use of DC packs work with SIMH assuming no new bad blocks have
> formed since the bad block index was written
> >
> > - If new bad blocks have formed in a pack, SIMH will have to be modified
> so its RL(V)11 can receive error information from the drive, otherwise it
> will incorrectly handle the recovery
> >
> > - Restoring images on DC packs will require special software that can
> move data around the bad-blocks (or a linux RT-11 filesystem driver *wink*)
> >
> > - Using a modern filesystem on EF/DC packs is unrestricted (because they
> can identify and manage bad blocks on their own)
> >
> >
> > First, does all of this seem reasonable?
> >
> >
> > I vaguely remember reading about a program on RT-11 you would run
> (before?) backing up the filesystem. What was this program? How did it
> work? Did it make the data position independent?
> >
> >
> > Christopher
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2015 22:53:59 -0700
> From: Don North <north at alum.mit.edu>
> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> <cctalk at classiccmp.org>, "General Discussion: On-Topic Posts
> ?[cctech at classiccmp.org]?" <cctech at classiccmp.org>
> Subject: Re: RL02-USB Controller Status/Problem
> Message-ID: <552370F7.5050500 at alum.mit.edu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1256; format=flowed
>
> Shouldn't the controller be using the DEC STD 144 bad sector replacement
> table
> in the last sector to transparently remap bad sectors such that, to the
> user,
> the -DC packs appear error free? If this were done each RL02 image should
> appear
> error-free in logical block address space as the hidden remapping of bad
> sectors
> on -DC drives would not be seen by the user (or O/S).
>
> All the other proposed ways of handling -DC bad sectors have serious
> compatibility issues.
>
> Don
>
> On 4/6/2015 3:54 PM, Christopher Parish wrote:
> > Progress is good on the RL02-USB controller. I've gotten complete
> operation working as expected with the usual tools for disk access
> (badblocks, dd, etc.), and SIMH can access the real packs via the
> controller's block device (i.e. attach rl0 /dev/sdX). Of course, this is
> only true for RL02K-EF (error-free) packs. The common RL02K-DC packs (those
> with identified bad blocks from the factory) are another story.
> >
> >
> > The issue is most obvious when backing up and restoring disk images.
> Suppose I backup a pack with 1 bad sector. I have two choices of what to do
> with the bad sector (specifically if it's a bad header), I could skip the
> sector (reporting an IO error), or I could report all zeros for the sector.
> >
> >
> > Skipping the sector is a bad idea because the logical address of all
> sectors after it will shift down by one. This will make the disk image not
> work correctly with SIMH, or anything else for that matter, because most
> filesystems address things by physical block (Please correct me if I'm
> wrong here). Remember, we're at the device level (/dev/sda) not the
> partition level (/dev/sda1).
> >
> >
> > Returning all zeros for bad sectors will preserve the block numbers of
> following sectors and work correctly with SIMH, but trying to restore the
> resulting image to another physical pack will probably be impossible given
> the destination disk pack has bad sectors of its own in different spots.
> >
> >
> > The usual trick of having the controller re-map the bad sectors will not
> work because the platters in the RL02 are removable. Writing some mapping
> index on the disk pack or holding back sectors in reserve will break
> compatibility with the original systems (PDP8s/11s/VAXes) and all their
> software (an unacceptable solution).
> >
> >
> > I think I've come to the following conclusions given the restrictions
> above:
> >
> >
> > - Creating and Restoring images with EF packs is unrestricted
> >
> > - SIMH operation with EF packs (online and images) will work perfectly
> >
> > - Creating images of DC packs will work with SIMH if I return zeros for
> the bad blocks
> >
> > - Online use of DC packs work with SIMH assuming no new bad blocks have
> formed since the bad block index was written
> >
> > - If new bad blocks have formed in a pack, SIMH will have to be modified
> so its RL(V)11 can receive error information from the drive, otherwise it
> will incorrectly handle the recovery
> >
> > - Restoring images on DC packs will require special software that can
> move data around the bad-blocks (or a linux RT-11 filesystem driver *wink*)
> >
> > - Using a modern filesystem on EF/DC packs is unrestricted (because they
> can identify and manage bad blocks on their own)
> >
> >
> > First, does all of this seem reasonable?
> >
> >
> > I vaguely remember reading about a program on RT-11 you would run
> (before?) backing up the filesystem. What was this program? How did it
> work? Did it make the data position independent?
> >
> >
> > Christopher
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2015 08:20:27 +0200
> From: shadoooo <shadoooo at gmail.com>
> To: cctech at classiccmp.org
> Subject: Re: RD54 Stopped Spinning
> Message-ID:
> <CAM4zSsX243N0PpBgD5-XUU=OhoXo3bDWRDTScKi=
> c79czUk71Q at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> Hello,
> apart from the transistors, I would check for some bad capacitor.
> The analog part with the sensors needs quite clean supply to work good,
> while the motor itself is a big source of spikes and pulses.
> Possibly there could be some supply filter, with electrolytic capacitors
> not working as expected due to age... or with excessive current leakage.
>
> Andrea
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 13
> Date: Tue, 07 Apr 2015 12:21:31 +0200
> From: Johnny Billquist <bqt at update.uu.se>
> To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
> Subject: Re: RL02-USB Controller Status/Problem
> Message-ID: <5523AFAB.5080509 at update.uu.se>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>
> This might become a long answer.
>
> First of all, back when the RL drives were made, hardware handled bad
> block management wasn't yet popular in that neck of the woods. So bad
> blocks were/are visible to the software. In order to have some
> management of this, DEC had a standard - DEC STD144, which described how
> you kept track of, and managed, bad blocks.
> If you ever wondered where the Unix program bad144 got its name from,
> now you know (and the ultimate stupidness is NetBSD, where they decided
> that only the x86 platform would have bad144, leaving the VAX - the only
> hardware platform who actually had disks following the bad144 standard,
> not having the bad144 program).
>
> The STD144 reserves the last track of the device for pack information.
> In there you have the pack serial number, and also the manufacturer bad
> block list, and also the user bad block list. When/if new blocks are
> detected after the pack is manufactured, they would be placed in the
> user bad block list.
>
> So, a EF pack would simply be a pack with no bad blocks from the
> manufacturer. The manufacturer bad block list would contain no bad
> blocks. This does not mean that the pack could not develop bad blocks
> later.
>
> Now, a total imaging of one RL disk to another is not something you
> should do. That would replace the pack serial number, in addition to the
> issues with the bad block lists. Not to mention that different packs
> have bad blocks in different places.
>
> Sp, to get to the meat of it. No, bad blocks are not replaced, or mapped
> away, or faked. The drive and controller can detect bad blocks, and when
> you try to read one, you'll get an error back. Drivers try a few times,
> and then give up, giving an error back to the user program.
> You should not try anything different.
>
> Now moving over to how software deals with this, essentially all DEC
> OSes have some way or other to mark the known bad sectors as bad when
> the filesystem in created, and then no software will try to use them.
> I have some rough idea on how this is done in RT-11 and RSTS/E, but to
> give details, I'll describe how RSX does it.
> RSX have a program that scans disks for bad blocks. It is called BAD.
> BAD will update the last track with any new bad blocks found.
> A different program is used to create a file system on a disks - INI.
> INI will read the last track of the device, to get the manufacturer and
> user bad block list. INI will then create the file system on the disk,
> and allocate all the bad blocks on the disk to a special file -
> BADBLK.SYS. That way, those blocks are already marked as used, and other
> files created cannot accidentally include those bad blocks.
>
> Copying RL disks with a block by block copy is not something you'd do.
> You'd mount the disk and copy the contents.
>
> So, all disk blocks are numbered just as you would expect. Bad blocks
> are not hidden, or mapped away, or returns zeroes. Doing anything like
> that will break existing software.
>
> Johnny
>
> On 2015-04-07 00:54, Christopher Parish wrote:
> > Progress is good on the RL02-USB controller. I've gotten complete
> operation working as expected with the usual tools for disk access
> (badblocks, dd, etc.), and SIMH can access the real packs via the
> controller's block device (i.e. attach rl0 /dev/sdX). Of course, this is
> only true for RL02K-EF (error-free) packs. The common RL02K-DC packs (those
> with identified bad blocks from the factory) are another story.
> >
> >
> > The issue is most obvious when backing up and restoring disk images.
> Suppose I backup a pack with 1 bad sector. I have two choices of what to do
> with the bad sector (specifically if it's a bad header), I could skip the
> sector (reporting an IO error), or I could report all zeros for the sector.
> >
> >
> > Skipping the sector is a bad idea because the logical address of all
> sectors after it will shift down by one. This will make the disk image not
> work correctly with SIMH, or anything else for that matter, because most
> filesystems address things by physical block (Please correct me if I'm
> wrong here). Remember, we're at the device level (/dev/sda) not the
> partition level (/dev/sda1).
> >
> >
> > Returning all zeros for bad sectors will preserve the block numbers of
> following sectors and work correctly with SIMH, but trying to restore the
> resulting image to another physical pack will probably be impossible given
> the destination disk pack has bad sectors of its own in different spots.
> >
> >
> > The usual trick of having the controller re-map the bad sectors will not
> work because the platters in the RL02 are removable. Writing some mapping
> index on the disk pack or holding back sectors in reserve will break
> compatibility with the original systems (PDP8s/11s/VAXes) and all their
> software (an unacceptable solution).
> >
> >
> > I think I've come to the following conclusions given the restrictions
> above:
> >
> >
> > - Creating and Restoring images with EF packs is unrestricted
> >
> > - SIMH operation with EF packs (online and images) will work perfectly
> >
> > - Creating images of DC packs will work with SIMH if I return zeros for
> the bad blocks
> >
> > - Online use of DC packs work with SIMH assuming no new bad blocks have
> formed since the bad block index was written
> >
> > - If new bad blocks have formed in a pack, SIMH will have to be modified
> so its RL(V)11 can receive error information from the drive, otherwise it
> will incorrectly handle the recovery
> >
> > - Restoring images on DC packs will require special software that can
> move data around the bad-blocks (or a linux RT-11 filesystem driver *wink*)
> >
> > - Using a modern filesystem on EF/DC packs is unrestricted (because they
> can identify and manage bad blocks on their own)
> >
> >
> > First, does all of this seem reasonable?
> >
> >
> > I vaguely remember reading about a program on RT-11 you would run
> (before?) backing up the filesystem. What was this program? How did it
> work? Did it make the data position independent?
> >
> >
> > Christopher
> >
>
>
> --
> Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
> || on a psychedelic trip
> email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
> pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 14
> Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2015 12:13:47 +0000
> From: Christopher Parish <christopher.parish at parishcomputers.com>
> To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
> <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> Subject: RE: RL02-USB Controller Status/Problem
> Message-ID:
>
> <639FFF5F324E6D409F42CF2B2F3BB56AB0FF0132 at MBX022-E1-NJ-4.exch022.domain.local
> >
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> > [...]
> > Now, a total imaging of one RL disk to another is not something you
> > should do. That would replace the pack serial number, in addition to the
> > issues with the bad block lists. Not to mention that different packs
> > have bad blocks in different places.
>
> I agree. You're right that the best way to copy a pack is to load up the
> appropriate OS in the simulator and instruct it to do the work. Because it
> has knowledge of the filesystem, it will copy around bad blocks, identify
> new ones, etc. without stomping on the serial number and factory recorded
> bad block data.
>
> > Sp, to get to the meat of it. No, bad blocks are not replaced, or mapped
> > away, or faked. The drive and controller can detect bad blocks, and when
> > you try to read one, you'll get an error back. Drivers try a few times,
> > and then give up, giving an error back to the user program.
> > You should not try anything different.
> > [...]
> > Johnny
>
> I will have to patch SIMH to support this paradigm because right now it
> expects the backing store for its virtual RL02s to be readable at all
> times. IO errors trying to access the underlying "file" halt the
> simulator. Additionally, there is no way to report what type of error
> occurred via USB mass storage, only that fewer blocks were returned than
> expected.
>
> I think I'll need to have two completely different modes of operation.
>
> A USB Mass storage mode would use the pack like a modern hard disk. The
> controller would hide and internally use the last track for bad block
> identification and not expose it to the PC. Also, the controller would
> hold some number of sectors in reserve, presenting a flat, error free
> ~9.8MB disk to the PC. This would work for modern filesystems but be
> completely useless for SIMH and physical computer compatibility.
>
> The other mode will need to be a non mass storage interface like bulk or
> CDC mode specifically for use with SIMH and any custom diagnostics. SIMH
> (after modification) would then be able to access all the raw data on the
> pack and have access to any errors that occur, handling them however it
> wants. Copying packs would need to be done just like it is now, except in
> the simulator. You either mount or image and mount the first disk, load
> your favorite OS in SIMH attached to the physical drive, and instruct it to
> copy disk 1 to disk 2, letting it copy around bad blocks in the manner it
> always has (preserving compatibility).
>
> Christopher
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 15
> Date: Tue, 07 Apr 2015 13:41:08 +0100
> From: Pete Turnbull <pete at dunnington.plus.com>
> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> Subject: Re: RL02-USB Controller Status/Problem
> Message-ID: <5523D064.3040305 at dunnington.plus.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1256; format=flowed
>
> On 06/04/2015 23:54, Christopher Parish wrote:
> > Progress is good on the RL02-USB controller. I've gotten complete
> > operation working as expected with the usual tools for disk access
> > (badblocks, dd, etc.), and SIMH can access the real packs via the
> > controller's block device (i.e. attach rl0 /dev/sdX).
>
> Very good! I want one :-)
>
> > The issue is most obvious when backing up and restoring disk images.
> > Suppose I backup a pack with 1 bad sector. I have two choices of what
> > to do with the bad sector (specifically if it's a bad header), I
> > could skip the sector (reporting an IO error), or I could report all
> > zeros for the sector.
>
> > The usual trick of having the controller re-map the bad sectors will
> > not work because the platters in the RL02 are removable.
>
> DEC does it by having the driver software remap sectors.
>
> > Writing some
> > mapping index on the disk pack or holding back sectors in reserve
> > will break compatibility with the original systems (PDP8s/11s/VAXes)
> > and all their software (an unacceptable solution).
>
> Eh? Use the existing bad block table which is on an RL01 or RL02, as on
> many other DEC disks.
>
> Return an error. Unless it's a block that's already in the bad block
> table at the end of the disk, in which case return the content of the
> remapped block, of course. If you don't do that, you'll break things in
> DEC OSs.
>
> > I vaguely remember reading about a program on RT-11 you would run
> > (before?) backing up the filesystem. What was this program? How did
> > it work? Did it make the data position independent?
>
> There are several ways to detect or handle bad blocks in RT-11. I
> suspect you're thinking of INIT/BAD or more likely DIR/BAD, or possibly
> BACKUP or FORMAT.
>
> INIT is is the monitor command to create an RT-11 filesystem on a disk;
> the /BAD option (full name BADBLOCKS, can be shortened to as little as
> /BA) tells it to scan the disk and report any bad blocks it finds. With
> no other options, it creates directory entries for files called FILE.BAD
> covering those blocks. INIT/BAD:RETAIN keeps any FILE.BAD it finds, and
> in most versions doesn't actually scan. This is really meant for
> devices that don't have a DEC standard bad block table (like floppies).
>
> Alternatively INIT/BAD/REPLACE doesn't write FILE.BAD but instead
> updates the bad block table at the end of the disk; /REPLACE overwrites
> the table, whereas REPLACE:RETAIN adds to it. Note that the DL(X)
> drivers in RT-11, as in other DEC OSs, know about the bad block table.
>
> But of course you wouldn't use INIT just before making a backup ;-)
> And it wouldn't work if your controller lies and returns zeros for bad
> blocks; that would be a very bad idea and will cause things to fail badly.
>
> The SQUEEZE command compresses a disk by shuffling up all the files
> (except FILE.BAD) to be contiguous (RT-11 always writes individual files
> as contiguous blocks on disk but gaps between files can arise as things
> are deleted or rewritten). It honours the bad block table (and/or
> FILE.BAD), as do other disk utilities, because the drivers do that. If
> your driver doesn't, it'll fail.
>
> If you just want to quickly scan a disk for errors, a common way is to
> do COPY/DEV/IGN DLx: NL: which does a block for block copy of the entire
> disk to the NULL device, reporting errors but not stopping on them
> (/COPY/DEVICE/IGNORE). It's common to do that just after formatting a
> disk, but before INIT, for example if you're working with a non-RT-11
> filesystem. BTW, for other COPY operations, it ignores FILE.BAD files,
> for obvious reasons, unless you specifically include them.
>
> You were probably thinking of the DIR command. /BAD is also an option
> to DIR; it can tell also you which files are affected by bad blocks. It
> scans the entire disk for bad blocks, and even works on non-RT-11 disks.
> If it finds any, it will report the block number in octal and decimal,
> and tell you if it's "Replaced" or "Replaceable" - ie if it's already in
> the bad block table - but it won't change the table for you. The full
> syntax is DIRECTORY/BADBLOCKS[/FILES][/START:n][/END:n]. /FILES will
> tell you what files are affected, assuming it's an RT-11 filesystem;
> /START and /END allow you specify a range rather than the whole disk.
> There's also a /WAIT option that pauses to let you change disks before
> scanning.
>
> BACKUP (or BUP) scans the target disk for bad blocks before copying a
> saveset to it (and stops if it finds any).
>
> You can't FORMAT an RL01 or RL02, but you can FORMAT/VERIFY:ONLY one.
> That writes patterns over the surface to test it, much more thoroughly
> than DIR/BAD, INIT/BAD, COPY/DEV or BACKUP.
>
> --
> Pete
>
> Pete Turnbull
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 16
> Date: Tue, 07 Apr 2015 14:14:18 +0100
> From: Pete Turnbull <pete at dunnington.plus.com>
> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> Subject: Re: RL02-USB Controller Status/Problem
> Message-ID: <5523D82A.7080804 at dunnington.plus.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>
> On 07/04/2015 11:21, Johnny Billquist wrote:
> > Sp, to get to the meat of it. No, bad blocks are not replaced, or mapped
> > away, or faked. The drive and controller can detect bad blocks, and when
> > you try to read one, you'll get an error back. Drivers try a few times,
> > and then give up, giving an error back to the user program.
> > You should not try anything different.
>
> Absolutely.
>
> > Copying RL disks with a block by block copy is not something you'd do.
> > You'd mount the disk and copy the contents.
>
> Actually COPY/DEV under RT-11 is commonly used, especially for non-RT-11
> packs. I can't remember what RSX does, but RT-11 /does/ deal with the
> bad block table, by not copying the last track, and copying remapped
> blocks. But in general, under other OSs, yes, not a good idea. It
> would be like using dd in Unix to copy an entire device, including the
> disk label, rather than the partitions.
>
> --
> Pete
>
> Pete Turnbull
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 17
> Date: Tue, 07 Apr 2015 14:24:30 +0100
> From: Pete Turnbull <pete at dunnington.plus.com>
> To: "Discussion at classiccmp.org:On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
> <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> Subject: Re: RL02-USB Controller Status/Problem
> Message-ID: <5523DA8E.9030908 at dunnington.plus.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1256; format=flowed
>
> On 07/04/2015 13:41, Pete Turnbull wrote:
> > The SQUEEZE command [...] honours the bad block table (and/or
> > FILE.BAD), as do other disk utilities, because the drivers do that.
>
> Actually, thinking about it, SQUEEZE probably does it itself, and the
> drivers probably just do error reporting. I think.
>
> --
> Pete
>
> Pete Turnbull
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 18
> Date: Tue, 07 Apr 2015 15:58:36 +0100
> From: Pete Turnbull <pete at dunnington.plus.com>
> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> Subject: Re: RL02-USB Controller Status/Problem
> Message-ID: <5523F09C.5000900 at dunnington.plus.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>
> On 07/04/2015 11:21, Johnny Billquist wrote:
>
> > The STD144 reserves the last track of the device for pack information.
> > In there you have the pack serial number, and also the manufacturer bad
> > block list, and also the user bad block list.
>
> While looking for something quite unrelated, I noticed that the RT-11
> Device Handlers Manual says slightly differently. The user list is
> stored, merged with the manufacturing list, in the home block (track 0
> sector 1) of RL01/02 and RK06/07 volumes, beginning at offset 6
> (HB.BAD). The actual replacement blocks are reserved space on the
> second last track (or tracks 0,1 of the last cylinder on RK06/7).
>
> The symbol names for the values in HB.BAD are defined in the .BBRDF
> macro in the distributed file SYSTEM.MLB.
> Offset Name Meaning
> 0 BBR.BD Bad block number.
> 2 BBR.GD Replacement block number.
> BBR.SZ Entry size.
>
> RSX-11 may not be the same?
>
> --
> Pete
>
> Pete Turnbull
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 19
> Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2015 11:25:03 -0400
> From: Paul Koning <paulkoning at comcast.net>
> To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
> <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> Subject: Re: RL02-USB Controller Status/Problem
> Message-ID: <BC740651-507D-4C80-891E-38A3726B2641 at comcast.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
>
> > On Apr 7, 2015, at 8:41 AM, Pete Turnbull <pete at dunnington.plus.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > On 06/04/2015 23:54, Christopher Parish wrote:
> >> Progress is good on the RL02-USB controller. I've gotten complete
> >> operation working as expected with the usual tools for disk access
> >> (badblocks, dd, etc.), and SIMH can access the real packs via the
> >> controller's block device (i.e. attach rl0 /dev/sdX).
> >
> > Very good! I want one :-)
> >
> >> The issue is most obvious when backing up and restoring disk images.
> >> Suppose I backup a pack with 1 bad sector. I have two choices of what
> >> to do with the bad sector (specifically if it's a bad header), I
> >> could skip the sector (reporting an IO error), or I could report all
> >> zeros for the sector.
> >
> > > The usual trick of having the controller re-map the bad sectors will
> > > not work because the platters in the RL02 are removable.
> >
> > DEC does it by having the driver software remap sectors.
>
> No, DEC does not do that. At least not in RSX, as Johnny described, nor
> in RSTS.
>
> In RSTS, creating a file system on a pack is done with the ?dskint?
> utility. One of its functions is to perform a drive scan, writing and
> verifying all sectors with several data patterns. If a sector is found to
> be bad, it is handled simply by allocating it to the reserved file
> [0,1]badb.sys. This scheme works for all drive types, including those that
> predate DEC Std 144. On packs that have a bad block table, the blocks
> listed in that table are includes in the bad block list that dskint
> determines (I don?t remember if they are checked anyway, or bypassed in the
> check).
>
> I also don?t remember if there was a way to handle blocks going bad
> later. In principle, yes; they could be allocated to badb.sys also. If
> so, a file system check (?onlcln?) would find a double allocated block and
> let you delete the file that was affected.
>
> The first drive type I know of that had anything resembling remapping is
> the RM80, with the ?skip sector? feature, where each track had an extra
> sector, and a flag in the sector header could be used to mark that sector
> as ?skip me and use the spare sector instead?. The first real remapping
> appeared in MSCP, which makes sense because that is the first time that DEC
> drives used logical addressing instead of hard cylinder/track/head
> addressing. At first (UDA50), remapping was done largely in the driver,
> requiring a quantity of code way larger than any other disk driver. In
> subsequent MSCP controllers, it moved entirely into the controller and the
> host simply saw an error free logical block space.
>
> Given all this, an image copy of a disk is not valid, unless the
> destination disk is error free. (Early packs usually were, which is why
> early PDP11 backup programs like ROLLIN did use image copy.) If the
> destination disk has errors, the copying has to be at the file system
> level, either by just copying all files one by one, or by doing an image
> copy that works around destination flaws. The RSTS standalone backup
> program SAVRES is an example of the latter.
>
> paul
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 20
> Date: Tue, 07 Apr 2015 17:56:34 +0200
> From: Johnny Billquist <bqt at update.uu.se>
> To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
> Subject: Re: RL02-USB Controller Status/Problem
> Message-ID: <5523FE32.5010600 at update.uu.se>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>
> On 2015-04-07 15:14, Pete Turnbull wrote:
> > On 07/04/2015 11:21, Johnny Billquist wrote:
> >> Sp, to get to the meat of it. No, bad blocks are not replaced, or mapped
> >> away, or faked. The drive and controller can detect bad blocks, and when
> >> you try to read one, you'll get an error back. Drivers try a few times,
> >> and then give up, giving an error back to the user program.
> >> You should not try anything different.
> >
> > Absolutely.
> >
> >> Copying RL disks with a block by block copy is not something you'd do.
> >> You'd mount the disk and copy the contents.
> >
> > Actually COPY/DEV under RT-11 is commonly used, especially for non-RT-11
> > packs. I can't remember what RSX does, but RT-11 /does/ deal with the
> > bad block table, by not copying the last track, and copying remapped
> > blocks.
>
> But that don't make sense. You cannot just move one block somewhere else
> because it is bad on the target device. Or just ignore a block because
> it is bad on the source device.
>
> And "remapped" must be something very local to RT-11. RSX do not remap
> any blocks. A block that is bad, is bad. It is still there. No other
> block is substituted for the bad block. And where would those
> substitution blocks come from? There are no hidden extra blocks on an RL
> pack.
>
> RSX simply deals with bad blocks on an RL pack by making sure no file
> accidentally gets them, by putting all the bad blocks into a specific
> file on the file system, intended to hold bad blocks.
>
> > But in general, under other OSs, yes, not a good idea. It
> > would be like using dd in Unix to copy an entire device, including the
> > disk label, rather than the partitions.
>
> Yes.
>
> Johnny
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 21
> Date: Tue, 07 Apr 2015 17:59:04 +0200
> From: Johnny Billquist <bqt at update.uu.se>
> To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
> Subject: Re: RL02-USB Controller Status/Problem
> Message-ID: <5523FEC8.2070308 at update.uu.se>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>
> On 2015-04-07 16:58, Pete Turnbull wrote:
> > On 07/04/2015 11:21, Johnny Billquist wrote:
> >
> >> The STD144 reserves the last track of the device for pack information.
> >> In there you have the pack serial number, and also the manufacturer bad
> >> block list, and also the user bad block list.
> >
> > While looking for something quite unrelated, I noticed that the RT-11
> > Device Handlers Manual says slightly differently. The user list is
> > stored, merged with the manufacturing list, in the home block (track 0
> > sector 1) of RL01/02 and RK06/07 volumes, beginning at offset 6
> > (HB.BAD). The actual replacement blocks are reserved space on the
> > second last track (or tracks 0,1 of the last cylinder on RK06/7).
> >
> > The symbol names for the values in HB.BAD are defined in the .BBRDF
> > macro in the distributed file SYSTEM.MLB.
> > Offset Name Meaning
> > 0 BBR.BD Bad block number.
> > 2 BBR.GD Replacement block number.
> > BBR.SZ Entry size.
> >
> > RSX-11 may not be the same?
>
> You are thinking of/referring to how the file system works. The bad
> block list on the last track is not directly used by the system, since
> this is different from one device to the next.
> RL drives have bad block information on the last track. It is not OS
> dependent.
>
> Johnny
>
>
>
> End of cctalk Digest, Vol 6, Issue 7
> ************************************
>
--
Edward Austin/?? ?????
109147, ??????, ??????, ??. ????????????, ?. 3
gsm: +44 (0)7726 05 0000 (UK)
gsm: +7 925 871 94 11 (Moscow)
ed at ryer.ru
> From: Edward Austin
> I am tempted to by a working MicroPDP 11/73 in a BA-23 from eBay US for
> $1200, but shipping and taxes would make this at least 50% more
See if you can buy the chassis in the UK/EU, that's the heavy part (i.e.
costs the most to ship). You could then buy cards in the US, and have them
sent to you trans-Atlantic; being light, they won't cost much to send. (I
will help, if a seller won't ship internationally - I can also test the cards
to make sure they are working before dispatching them.)
11/73 CPU cards come up regularly for not too much (I just bought one for
$46), and memory, etc can also be had for not too much. What do you want to
do about mass storage? That's going to be the hard part, IMO.
Noel~h
A situation came up where CHM wanted to film a Compaq Deskpro 386, but we didn't have one,
so I've been trying to put a first generation system together (circa 1987), but I'm having trouble locating
a Deskpro 386 keyboard, and Compaq EGA card and monitor. Does anyone have this kicking around?
Hi! Got two FDD200, 8" drives. I revised their config with the manual handy. They seem OK for my needs (reading soft sectored IBM disks) except for a thing. They are configured for radial selection but with dedicated SELECT lines for heads/side. The first disk responds to SELECT lines 0 and 2, respectively for HEAD 0 and 1. The second disk responds to SELECT lines 1 and 3, for HEAD 0 and 1. This can easily be reverted moving a soldered wire jumper. I'd like to know why they were configured that way. I'll use the FDADAP adapter, BTW. Thanks!
> From: Jacob Ritorto
> 2) Assuming H7681, do you know how to wire a chassis that expects H768
> to work with H7681? Or vice versa?
AFAIK, there is nothing to it.
The backplane normally used with the H786, the H9273, has exactly the same
kind of power connector as the one used with the H7861, the H9276 - a
terminal block. The pinout is, IIRC, identical. There's also a duPont
connector on a flat cable (10 or 12 pin, don't recall off the top of my
head), which carries BPOK and things like that, and that also is has an
identical pinout.
And finally they are the exact same size and shape, with the same fasteners
in the same locations.
Hence my prior assertion that "have looked at both closely, and verified that
they have the same interfaces and physical dimensions, etc, so I think this
will work, but I have yet to actually try it [to absolutely verify it]".
Although I've just noticed that the BA11-N (the H786/H9273) has an H403-A
AC control box, and the BA11-S (the H7861/H9276) has an H403-B. I don't know
what the difference is between the two: higher current rating, would be my
guess, since the H786 puts out 15A of +5V, whereas the H7861 can do 36A.
But no, the BA11-N says its max input is 12A at 120 VAC - although that
includes powering an auxilliary AC outlet. The H756 P/S alone draws 5.5A; the
H7561 is the exact same. (Wow, double the efficiency...) So the auxiliary
outlet must be the difference - sure enough, the BA11-S doesn't have one.
So I still think you're good to go! :-)
Noel
Does anyone have a description of the switch settings for a QBus MSV11-M
(aka MSV1M) memory card (M7506)?
I have one that doesn't want to play, and I can't find the manual
(EK-MSV1M-UG) or any useful notes anywhere.
--
Pete
Pete Turnbull
Hi all,
I recently picked up an HP 2640B (thanks, Josh!) and I'm restoring it. The
keyboard cable was cut - but the mainframe end was thrown away - but I
found a printer cable that uses the same connector, and I don't have a
printer adapter for it. It has bad screen mold, but I have A Plan - I'm
going to try soaking the face of the CRT face-down in acetone, to see if it
will dissolve/loosen the offending adhesive.
It's also missing the badge plate: that part behind the keyboard and below
the screen that has the HP logo and the terminal name. Is there a chance
anyone out there has a parts-beast 2640B and would part with that badge
plate? In the alternative, maybe take some really good photos so I can
have one of my friends with a 3D printer make the badge bits, which I can
fasten to something Close Enough for Folk Music?
I plan to hook this up to my HP-1000 - I also picked up a HP-IB cable so I
can connect the -1000 to a (real) floppy or (emulated) hard disk. Fun
stuff! -- Ian
PS: I'll be at VCF/e next week.
--
Ian S. King, MSIS, MSCS, Ph.D. Candidate
The Information School <http://ischool.uw.edu>
Archivist, Voices From the Rwanda Tribunal <http://tribunalvoices.org>
Value Sensitive Design Research Lab <http://vsdesign.org>
University of Washington
There is an old Vulcan saying: "Only Nixon could go to China."
Hello,
I am in the process of moving and need to pare down my spare parts
collection. I have several BA23 chassis with power supplies.
I do not know the condition as they have been stored in my shed for
years. They do not include modules or outer shells.
If you pickup in Lexington KY, they are free.
Thanks
Max
Hello,
apart from the transistors, I would check for some bad capacitor.
The analog part with the sensors needs quite clean supply to work good,
while the motor itself is a big source of spikes and pulses.
Possibly there could be some supply filter, with electrolytic capacitors
not working as expected due to age... or with excessive current leakage.
Andrea
Hi,
I have a Sun 19" monochrome Model M monitor to give away. I have no idea if
it works - it made a fizzing noise upon applying briefly applying power so
probably needs at least some work. I used to use it on a 3/60 which I no
longer have.
Made in USA
SvCd: M01
Part#: 365-1014-01
Model: M
Ser: 848F1051
Date: 29-nov-88
ElecRatings:
100-120/200-240ACV
50/60Hz 1.6/1.0A
I have a couple of photos if anyone's interested.
Free of charge. Collection only, from Sutton, south-west London, UK.
It'll be off to the dump on Saturday if no interest by then.
Pete.
> From: Cory Heisterkamp
> If someone has one for sale (this one marked H7861), please let me
> know.
Someone on eBay is selling one:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/150947900783
They are asking $125, which is not wholly ridiculous, and will probably take
slightly less. I've bought several from this seller, and they are in good
shape.
Also, at a pinch, I'm pretty sure (as in, I have looked at both closely, and
verified that they have the same interfaces and physical dimensions, etc, so I
think this will work, but I have yet to actually try it) an H786 would also
work in that system. The only difference I know of is that the H7861 puts out
a few more amps of +5V. No reasonably priced H786's on eBay at the moment,
though.
> It looks serviceable and is likely repairable by an expert so that
> could be an option, too.
I'd interested in buying the dead one from you (which should help offset the
cost if you go for the eBay one) - please contact me off line if interested.
Noel
I need another operational HP 7970E mag tape controller (13183 - 2 board
set). It appears that the spare board sets I have are 13181 which I believe
is only for the 7970A/B. All my drives are 7970E, so is there any chance
someone has a 7970A/B but has a 13183 and would like to swap my 13181 for
it? J Or if anyone has a spare 13183 they want to sell/trade...
Best,
J
OK, I think all of them have been claimed now. If not I will report. Now
to see what else is in the shed.
thanks
------------------------------ Message: 16 Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2015
11:06:31 -0400 From: Jacob Ritorto <jacob.ritorto at gmail.com> To:
"General Discussion: On-Topic Posts" <cctech at classiccmp.org> Subject:
Re: BA23 Chassis available in Lexington KY Message-ID:
<CAHYQbfBp7WuiR5qSfeR39tDMBQKGHvg2Vk8vw5FGgewSOjBzug at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hey Max, I'll take a couple.
You're a six-hour's drive from me, so it'll take me a sec to figure out
when. How's Friday for you? On Sun, Apr 5, 2015 at 6:47 PM,
<keith at saracom.com> wrote:
>> Hello, I am in the process of moving and need to pare down my spare parts collection. I have several BA23 chassis with power supplies. I do not know the condition as they have been stored in my shed for years. They do not include modules or outer shells. If you pickup in Lexington KY, they are free. Thanks Max
> ************************************
The other day my RD54 just stopped rotating, dead in its tracks, while it
was running. I guessed one of the motor control power transistors may have
failed. I assume they are the series of 6 chunky ones attached to a single
heatsink. I have desoldered them (en-masse) and tested them with a Peak
DCA55 tester, and they all appear to be working. Does anyone have any other
suggestions? Has anyone ever repaired an RD54 control board?
Regards
Rob
For those who don't know, Monash University (Melbourne Australia) has
had the chassis of a B7800 CPU sitting around under a stoir case, left
over from the days when a series of large Burroughs systems had been
in use there during the seventies.
I'm no expert on Burroughs systems, but from all the Internet based
trawling I've done over the years it appears that Burroughs had a
'scorched earth' policy, and systematically reclaimed and disposed of
all B5000 and onward family machines. At least to date, I haven't been
able to find any other surviving example of a B5000 family machine (or
major components). Naturally I'd be very happy to be proved wrong.
Unfortunately all cards and power supplies had been removed but it
still had the basic frame, backplane (very impressive in it's own
right) and two large front control panels all in place (also very
impressive).
(I've been told that the front panels were pulled prior to disposal).
Many of you will be familiar with Ralph Klimek and his amazing stories
of life as a technician with these machines.
He has some pictures of this particular frame, about mid way down this
page on his site:
http://users.monash.edu.au/~ralphk/burroughs.html
Because I live close by, I was dropping in every so often to check up
on both this frame, and a (smaller) VAX 11/780 sitting next to it.
Because the Uni has quite a decent vintage computer display in place
at it's Caulfied campus, I had felt comfortable that both machines
were safe.
On a relatively recent visit (a few months ago, late last year? I'm
not quite sure as life is a bit of a blur at present) I noticed that
both machines had gone, and that some renovations were taking place in
the building.
I felt that the machines must be safe but decided I should try and
make contact to be sure (working in ICT for so long, I should have
known not to trust an assumption),
A few days ago I got a note back saying that the Uni had requested the
builders to remove the B7800 chassis and dispose of it (the 11/780 was
moved to the Caufield collection).
Since then I've gone on a bit of a campaign to try and find out of the
machine might still be sitting somewhere with the builder (or their
sub-contracter). It's a very long shot, but in this case I think most
here on the list would agree it's worth it? Apparently the scrap metal
value would be quite low at the moment, and hopefully whoever has it
has been too busy to deal with disposal yet (a long shot, as I said).
I've managed to speak to numerous people both inside the Uni and the
builder, but have realised from them that my enquiries now need to be
pushed four ways - into two Schools within the Uni, and also two
service departments.?My problem is that I'm attempting to get a
startup software company off the ground, so time isn't something that
I've got any of, let trying to push my way through contacting people
within four different internal departments (and sitting through all
the on-hold music, call transfers & drop outs).
I don't think that the Uni wants this chassis at the end of the day.?
Is there anyone who can attack this at a higher level? I'm happy to
pass on relevant details to anyone who could help positively (I don't
want to cause unnecessary aggravation by posting everything here, the
people I've spoken to have already been as helpful as they can).
If it's true that it is possibly one of the last existing CPU frames
of the B5000 family, and if it went to one of the major Museums in the
US as a result, that would be a great outcome (if it still exists at
all).
Regards Evan
During approximately one and a half year I have been restoring a little
PDP-11/04 computer with a TU60 DECassette drive and a LA30P Decwriter. I
have followed the trail of Lou and got it to run CAPS-11 as well as
CAPS-11/BASIC.
It has been an interesting journey to repair it and actually trying to use
it give a glimpse of what it was like to develop software 40 years ago on a
minimalistic system like this. Since it only has 8kW of memory the BASIC
system uses overlays. It takes at least half a minute to load the runtime
environment when you hit the RUN command - and then half a minute to get
back to the editor again after running. Indeed patience demanding.
I put together a webpage:
http://www.datormuseum.se/computers/digital-equipment-corporation/pdp-11-04
and a short video when it runs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQsP444N5zQ
/Mattis
> I suppose that is possible, but not sure that would explain the dead stop, although I suppose it isn't impossible. I
Bad connections rarely do anything you expect :-)
> was nowhere near it when it happened. Do the signals I posted look right to you? Would you expect inconsistent
> triggering on the scope on just one of the FET outputs?
More seriously, have you tried swapping the FETs round to see if the dodgy signal goes with a particular
transistor?
-tony
> From: B Degnan
> I have one Altair turnkey (chassis only) and a bunch of DEC components
> available from a lot of computers I picked up the other day.
So I wound up with all the DEC gear from this (I gather the Altair is gone
too), but I'm not at all sure I want the System Industries hard drives. (I
assume there's at least one controller for them there, but all I know is
what's in Bill's posting. :-)
Is there anyone out there who'd be interested in them, if I decide I don't
want them? Free (basically) to a good home (although if you can't do a
pickup, we'd have to look into shipping).
Noel
> From: B Degnan
> I have one Altair turnkey (chassis only) and a bunch of DEC components
> available
It sounds like Bill's mailbox is exploding... :-) Apparently the DEC stuff
already has several people who are willing to take it.
Noel
From: Jochen Kunz <jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de>
> Similar: We had some Indigos in indogo color but with "CDC Cyber 910"
> (yes, CDC as Controll Data Corp.) printing at the Unix-AG.
Ha! Memories. I have a recycler friend who called me up one day having a
line on a st00pid number of "CDC computers" for dirt. He thought maybe he
could make a few dollars on machines from the Center for Disease Control.
I took a look and realized they were rebadged SGIs from Control Data,
workstations and servers. I hooked him up with some folks into that sort
of kink and he sold each one for about 15 times what he paid for them. I
bought a car and a really nice grill with what he kicked back to me for the
intel and the hookup. Good times.
Bob Brown wrote:
>Does anyone have experience with the hpdrive project?
I do. I use a small board NI PCI card. Like this one:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/National-Instruments-High-Performance-GPIB-interface
-for-PCI-Model-PCI-GPIB-/221231586346?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item33826e1
c2a
Works wonders.
>I'm wondering if the following card might work with it:
>http://www.ebay.com/itm/HP-Agilent-82350A-E2078A-PCI-GPIB-Interface-Card->/
351361191725?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item51cec24f2d
It won't. As you can see in the picture, it's based off the TI9914 which is
specifically excluded from the compatibility list. Search National
Instrument PCI-GPIB on eBay and there is a ton of these. The older large
ones are less expensive than the newer small ones.
Jay West wrote:
> I had read somewhere that most PCI cards did not [work].
They do. But you need an National Instrument card based off the chipsets
that Ansgar lists, because he wrote his driver for the NI chipset series. I
use the relatively recent (vintage 2002) small form factor NI GPIB PCI card.
Although he doesn't have it listed as tested, it is based off the TNT5004
chipset and works without any problems with his driver.
I have one Altair turnkey (chassis only) and a bunch of DEC components
available from a lot of computers I picked up the other day. I am looking
only to recover expenses (truck and gas) and I don't want much. These are
best for someone who has experience cleaning a "barn find" as this is where
I got these items. The real "cost" will be the time needed to take apart
these systems and clean thoroughly. I did not see evidence of any chewed
wires fortunately, just nests, some urine staining, seed storage, etc. All
of the computers were working maybe 20 years ago-ish but they have fallen
into neglect.
http://vintagecomputer.net/temp2/
Best offer for some/all, pick up only. Landenberg, PA. No I will not
deliver to VCF.
CONTACT ME HERE: http://vintagecomputer.net/contact.cfm
- PDP 11/34 #1 (no serial card but otherwise populated) *
- PDP 11/34 #2 (with Hard drives, racked, no serial card but otherwise
populated) *
- PDP 11/44 (mostly populated complete maybe) *
- Tall rack with RK05 ** and hard drive for DEC 11/34 #1
- Altair Turnkey, chassis only. *
asterisk key:
* items contains/contained a rodent nest.
** I tried but could not extend from rack, rails rusted?
NOTE - I will keep these items outside ready to be taken. They will be
tightly covered with a new tarp, the weather should be nice for a while.
That said, if you want these items held for an extended period I can't
guarantee that they'll stay dry forever. Act Now!
Bill
Amongst other things, I picked up a SGI Indigo2 system yesterday. It turned
out that it had the original packaging, and that it's an Impact 10000 machine.
For graphics however it has a four-board set; does anyone know what this
might be? Wikipedia talks about a three-board set for the Maximum Impact,
and fewer cards for lesser options, but I've not seen mention anywhere of a
machine using four (unless they're just not counting the analog output
board as part of the three?)
I'm not sure what it has for RAM; all of the sockets are filled. Someone
had scribbled 32MB and 1GB of disk on the box, but it has 2 x 4GB drives
fitted, so that's not necessarily correct.
I need to clean the dust out before I try powering up, but does anyone know
what a minimum config would be? Can I power up with no disks and
framebuffer, and expect to get a serial console? I'd like to not stress the
PSU (or risk the framebuffer cards) initially if possible - the previous
owner said they never ran it, although it was supposedly working when they
got it.
cheers
Jules
So I may have been a bit premature in my declaration earlier this week
that letting the 4014 warm up for a few minutes solves the storage problems.
For the time being, I have it hooked up to a Linux box (so I can 'cat'
various files at it and stare in awe as it draws random things) and it
seems to be performing flawlessly; everything works (including the
discrete plot extensions). But I've noticed that over time as I clear
the screen that garbage starts accruing around the edges of the screen
-- only the middle gets properly erased.
At first power-on, the area that gets cleared is a circle maybe 10" in
diameter; this increases slowly over time and if I let it run for 15-20
minutes *most* of the screen gets cleared but there's always a bit on
the edges that remains.
I went through the portions of the alignment procedure outlined in the
service manual related to storage, and all voltages were within a
percentage point or two even after all these years, so not much required
adjustment.
There are two adjustments for the Collimation that control the size and
shape of the flood that erases the screen; the service manual suggests
adjusting these until the flood covers the screen. Adjusting the pots
all the way counter-clockwise causes the flood to get *slightly* larger
and cover more of the screen, but it's still not enough.
From reading the circuit description for the erase circuits (starting
on page 5-82 of the service manual), I note that the duration of the
flood (as controlled by the Collimation circuits) is controlled by an RC
network and I suppose it's possible that one or more of the capacitors
is out of spec -- but I don't know if the length of the flood has
anything at all to do with the area it covers -- can anyone shed some
light on this?
I suppose it's more likely that the tube's just showing its age. I
suppose I should be happy it works as well as it does.
At any rate, if anyone has any insight here, I'd love to learn more...
- Josh
Having a poke around Wikipedia, I found the following interesting
detail in the 3278 entry:
"3278 terminals continued to be manufactured in Hortolandia, near
Campinas, Brazil as far as late 1980s, having its internals redesigned
by a local engineering team using modern CMOS technology, while
retaining its external look and feel."
That sounds right up my street. Anyone know any more? Ever seen one?
http://www.corestore.org
'No greater love hath a man than he lay down his life for his brother.
Not for millions, not for glory, not for fame.
For one person, in the dark, where no one will ever know or see.'
Dave wrote...
----
What is the symptom with the CRT? I think that was the achilles heel of the MDS. It usually was the connectors on the cable to the CRT control board. Some of the pins carry too much current and the heat made them go intermittent. The other problem that I found was on the control board inside of the CRT module. It was usually cold solder joints and a little touch up usually fixed it.
----
I'm in the midst of a classiccmp-related project with a deadline that will take many months, but eventually I'll get back to the MDS.
As I recall when I pulled out the mds a few months ago, half the time on powerup there was no crt display, and when it would come up, the diagnostic firmware indicated a problem with the crt control board. Sometimes during the powerup sequence the display would work but then go blank.
I also recall that maybe a year ago when I pulled it off the shelf, I could not find my diskettes for the system :( I know they were in the basement, but I looked for a couple days and could not find it. I'd gladly pay something reasonable for some 8" floppies with ISIS2, ASM, PLM, etc.
J
Does anyone have experience with the hpdrive project?
I'm wondering if the following card might work with it:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/HP-Agilent-82350A-E2078A-PCI-GPIB-Interface-Card-/3…
I'm not sure what chipset it uses, and I can't find info from the project page on whether the hp card will work.
thanks.
-Bob
Today I mailed off a couple HP 2100A/S front panel keys (they are the round
tubular "security key" type) to a fellow listmember in need. I thought I had
a whole box of them, but it turned out virtually all of those were DEC keys.
So I had 3 copies of the key made today (two for the listmember, one extra
for me). When I tested them before dropping them in the mail, 2 worked and 1
did not (of course, I sent off the 2 that worked to the listmember).
Since I have to go back to the locksmith to get the 1 key redone, I thought
I'd offer to get keys for the 2100A/S made for anyone that wants them. I
guess it is possible that your 2100A/S may use a different key, but at least
every 2100 I've come across uses the same key. The locksmith charges $8 per
key, and figure $2 bucks for shipping. I'll probably head back to the
locksmith Monday so if anyone is in need, let me know.
Please note - the keys for HP 1000 aka 21MX M/E/F are completely different
and not what I'm talking about here. Just the 2100A or 2100S. But I guess if
anyone needs keys for those, I can get some made as well. If it's for a 1000
or MX key, let me know if it's a M series (dual edge key, switch has standby
position) or E/F (single edge key, not a switch just a front door latch).
Best,
J
Does anyone want a copy?
It includes the Tandon TM-848-1E, TM848-2E operating and service manual and the Tandon TM501, TM502, TM503 OEM service manual.
Al, would you like a copy for bitsavers? If so, how to upload?
It is about 34 megabytes and 416 pages long.
It is already in PDF format. That's what my scanner produces.
Thanks,
Kelly
While sorting through some Unibus cards I've had on a dusty shelf for
years, I came across a strange card (picture at
https://www.flickr.com/photos/pnt103/17011635052/).
It has no maker's name, but what looks like a zigzag triple S logo near
the centre of the top edge, and the legends "2010-60", "2010-6001 C835"
and "EM PC" next to that.
Apart from 74LS series, it has the following noteworthy ICs:
10 x Texas 74S2472 PROMs on left
4 x 20-pin and 1 x 16-pin ICs look like PALs at lower right
2 x 74LS181 (4-bit ALU) near the centre, with
2 x AMD 27S03 (16x4-bit bipolar RAM) and 4 x AM2907 (quad bus xcvr)
2 x white ceramic gold-top ICs 93L422-DC (256x4 static RAM)
12.5MHz crystal
2 x 7439 (marked "SEL"), 2 x DS8837, 5 x DS8641
12 x 75452 (high current high speed dual-NAND peripheral drivers)
and a 50-pin 3M IDC connector and a 2x15-way edge connector on the top edge.
Any suggestions as to what it is or who made it?
Being a hex-height card but having only CDEF fingers, it's the exception
that proves the rule that all Unibus hex cards have all six sets of
contacts ;-)
--
Pete
Pete Turnbull
> From: Paul Koning
> The general rule of device drivers is to assume that the hardware is
> misbehaving, and double check everything.
Right, but it needs to _actively log_ when it has to fix something, otherwise
you wind up in the situation of the semi-famous old Multics problem where
(IIRC) the system was running slower and slower... finally someone looked at
the Disk DIM (driver) counters, and one drive was slowly failing, but the
industrial-strength recovery code in the Multics Disk DIM was masking the
problem (except for the performance degradation). The DIM was thereupon
modified to notify the operator if 'too many' retries had to be done 'too
often'.
Noel
Hey all,
Should be a bit less silent now I guess. ;)
Anyone here exceptionally familiar with the SC-40? I've completed imaging
the drive (just microcode and diags, someone want to finish reversing it
for use in klh10?) and doing the inspection (actually finished weeks ago
but got busy)
Now, I have a tape drive working and attached to it via SCSI...however now
I'm lacking info on how to actually do a tape bootstrap. ;)
http://i.imgur.com/gatos9o.jpg
--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net Personal stuff
http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects
Here are some hex DEC compatible boards that I just found. If you wish to
make an offer, please contact me off list.
Thanks, Paul
ACT 10103-0, 10104 ON BACK
COMPUTER INTERFACE TECNOLOGY CM7819 =DZ11?
COMPUTER CONSOLES 34D01533
DATA PRODUCTS 257240, 257345 SERIAL INTERFACES
DPD FPPA-24132M03
PERTEC GCR/PE READ 107856-02,
GCR/PR READ 107861-01AN DEC # 29-23763-00
107866-01 DEC #
29-23769-00
SIMPACT ICP-1600
VERSATEC BIPOLAR ALGORITHM PROCESSOR 382441
I've checked Bitsavers. Computer Consoles Inc doesn't appear to have a
presence there, and there's nothing in the Harris or ICL sections (two
rebadgers). Anyone information you guys might have on this machine would be
much appreciated.
--
Thanks,
Kevin
I had written
----
TSIA
I?m in need of an owner?s manual (and ideally, a service manual as
well would be nice) for? a Northern Telecom Spectron D101. This is an RS232
serial datascope, basically a line monitor with some programmability
(displays in binary, hex, ascii, or octal; start tracking on certain
characters; substitute X string for Y string; etc.).
I?ve googled excessively with no results, and also reached out to AEK. Any
chance someone has one in their pile?
----
FYI, after posting the above I did yet another round of google searches and
this time a manual popped up as the very first search result. Odd. Manual
purchased, and I'll copy and send off to Al if he wants it for bitsavers.
J
> From: F. Ulivi
> I hope I'm not "offending" anyone in this forum by mentioning an
> emulator, it looks like you are mostly focused on real (vintage)
> hardware..
Absolutely not! Although we do indeed focus on vintage hardware, I think we
all understand how useful emulators can be, and many (most? all?) of us use
them as a useful partner to our old hardware. I certainly do! (If nothing
else, they tend to run a lot faster than the actual machines do! :-)
Noel
> From: Josh Dersch
> I finished restoring the 4014's power supply
So I'm curiuous; what exactly did you do, in restoring the supply? (Given
that you'd previously already turned the unit on, and discovered this
behaviour?) Just adjust voltages to spec, or more than that?
Noel
Hi all --
Picked up a Tektronix 4014-1 terminal. It's in pretty good shape, nice
and clean and it's in nearly-working condition except that the storage
behavior isn't quite right.
On power-up, write-through doesn't. (That is, characters don't get
stored to the tube.) Clearing the display via the RESET/PAGE key clears
a roughly elliptical region in the center of the display but leaves the
outer edges a mess. The cleared region stores characters properly. You
can see the overall effect here:
http://yahozna.dyndns.org/scratch/tek4014/clear.jpg
After a 2-3 minutes of warming up the area cleared by RESET/PAGE
increases. I haven't run the terminal long enough to see if it
eventually completely erases the screen (while the power supply appears
to be within tolerances, I still need to rebuild/reform it so I'm not
going to run it too long yet).
So far everything else seems to be functioning properly, the cursor
appears properly (and does not write through), input is accepted from
the keyboard, etc. I've been reading through the service manual on
Bitsavers and it describes a very in-depth alignment procedure which I'm
prepared to go through (once I've got the power supplies rebuilt) but I
thought I'd ask here if this problem rings any bells and if there's
anything I should immediately suspect or adjust. You guys know
everything :).
Thanks as always for the advice,
Josh
geneb wrote:
>So it looks like he made a little cap over the top - that's a very simple
>print. If you can get me dimensions I can print you a few.
Yep that's what I did:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IQKCiS0w2s
inspiring myself from Rick's drawing (thanks Rick). It's a very small part
though, not sure if you can print something that small accurately unless you
have a professional printer.
The cap I made was 6mm high, 9.6mm in diameter, with a cavity 3mm deep of
6.30mm diameter at the bottom for the capstan to go in. It required me to
reduce the original capstan diameter to the 6.30mm so it could fit in the
cavity though. That's what I was trying to avoid with my two alternate
proposals (for people that don't have a lathe...)
Speaking of which
>I want his lathe. :)
Mwahahaha. Nooooo. It's all miiiiine. Sadly they don't make them anymore, I
got one of the last ones.
- Marc
Does anyone know how to remove the side skins on an SGI Origin
(specifically a 2200 deskside cabinet). The manual mentions removal of the
top and front, but says that the sides are more tricky and to contact SGI
for the procedure.
I'd like to remove them as there's some minor paint splatter on them, which
would be much easier to deal with off the machine.
I see there's a screw at the bottom of the machine on the rear edge (much
like the one for the front which releases the front skin), but removing it
doesn't seem to let the rear plastic molding drop in the same way, and I
assume this needs to come off first.
cheers
Jules
From: Sean Caron <scaron at umich.edu>
> You are right, even the interactive performance of the R8K had me a bit
> taken aback...But I understand in its day it really flew on the FP codes;
Yup. The R8000 was pretty specifically designed to be a desktop super, for
some value of "super". And for 1995, it was pretty remarkable. It was the
first superscaler MIPS, and the dedicated FP unit was pretty much pushing
the envelope on single chip tech. But integer performance wasn't a
priority, and you could tell.
> I don't know if this claim was ever really substantiated in the real world
The MIPSPro compilers usually did a really good job of optimizing for the
R8000, and for the jobs it was designed for (non-vectorizable floating
point) it really flew (300ish MFLOPS...which for 1995 was nothing short of
amazing in a desktop).
I would note, however, that the common comparison to the Y/MP is pretty
much pure marketing. The Y/MP and the R8K were on-par for non-vector FP
problems, but as soon as the compiler could substantially vectorize the
problem, the Y/MP could be many times faster than the R8K for the same
codebase.
In the end, we found the R8K was a nice dev machine (due to a good bit of
source compatibility between the MIPSPro and Cray compilers), but not
generally cost effective, and pretty much outmatched all around by the R10k
and later.
> But it's a neat little oddball
Very.
KJ
I have a VAX 4000-300 that I want to pass on as I don't have room for it.
It is in a BA440 enclosure (marked VAX 4000-400). The CPU board had a
couple of problems, the levers that are used to push it into the slot have
been broken, however it will push into the slot OK and work. The onboard
Ethernet (SGEC) is also not working, but I have included a DESQA so you can
network it. It has 64MB of memory (2x 32MB). It also has a CXY08 board.
It does not have any disks because I want to keep the few DSSI disks I
have, however I will include two DSSI covers. You can still boot it as a
satellite of course. In fact I was toying with the idea of putting a
Raspberry Pi inside the enclosure with a crossover LAN cable and running if
off SIMH on that.
It is free, however I would appreciate a small donation, as it has cost me
money to collect it to save it from being dumped.
It is in the UK, in South Manchester. Although I am currently working a lot
in Coventry so could bring it to that area. I will also be at DEC Legacy in
Windermere 11-12 April, although I would prefer to leave room in my car for
the machines I want to exhibit, if possible.
Regards
Rob
More computer-esque things looking to be identified. Some of it military,
some of it not.
What might the paper tape reader have come out of?
The big circuit boards say "Harris" on them.
http://imgur.com/a/S7dyo
Thanks,
Kyle
> From: Lyle Bickley
> I have had packs on rare occasions which when I first obtained them had
> a few records which were unreadable - and a clean reformat made them
> 100% error free.
Err, I thought RL02 packs came pre-formatted (at least, the low-level stuff
like sector headers, etc), and could not be field re-formatted? Or are you
simply talking of a high-level re-format (i.e. the file system), which might
write all data blocks to zero or something, thereby getting rid of the
un-readable contents of such blocks?
> From: Mike Ross
> It's high time someone collated all the 'new hardware' projects out
> there ... should be a one-stop shop where info on all this stuff is
> held.
The obvious place to put it is on our Wiki, of course... (Hint, hint... :-)
Noel
I've gotten my RL-02 -> USB Mass Storage controller mostly working with a few residual gremlins. Specifically, I've noticed from my testing that I have good packs, ones that read out almost the same every time, and bad packs, ones where half the bits seem to be in different states every time I read them. I've left write support untested until I can solve this problem.
Right now, my working theory is that different controllers had slightly different timing characteristics, and I may need to adjust more of my DPLL parameters dynamically to deal with that (something I'd rather avoid). Of course, most of these packs haven't been put into a drive since the mid-80s, and there could be some bit rot going on.
As many of you have much more experience dealing with these drives than I do, my questions are:
- What type of long term reliability have people noticed from their RL02K packs?
- Is garbage data sometimes normal for certain packs until they are rewritten with ?fresh? data?
- Has anyone noticed pack compatibility problems between various computers/RL-02 controllers?
Thanks,
Christopher
> Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2015 06:20:04 -0500
> From: "Jay West" <jwest at classiccmp.org>
>
> So. two questions: What SHOULD the outer diameter of a good capstan roller
> be on that drive, and does anyone have other suggestions for how to make the
> capstan roller "taller"?
I would try gluing an extender piece on the end of the existing capstan roller, perhaps
using wood which is easy to shape. Once you wrap it with a piece or two of heat
shrink tubing, I would think that it would all stay in place.
> So the roller on my -85A tape drive is marginally ok [.]. While the
>second option would work, according to the video it "just barely makes the
>capstan roller contact the bottom portion of the tape capstan wheel". That
>concerns me, as if it's "barely making contact" I'm concerned that over
time
>this would wear the capstan roller motor shaft and perhaps wear down the
>wheel, not to mention potential vibration.
It doesn't wear the shaft, does not cause vibrations. But it eventually
wears out the edge of the rubber replacement you put over the capstan
(shrink tube or surgical tubing in my case). Eventually it fails and you
have to put a new one. Annoying.
> So. two questions: What SHOULD the outer diameter of a good capstan roller
> be on that drive
Dunno. If you have a semi good capstan, can you measure it? Apparently it's
not critical, since I got the tapes working OK with a thin shrink tube
coating as well as a thick surgical tube coating.
>does anyone have other suggestions for how to make the capstan roller
"taller"?
I can think of at least two solutions.
Solution one is to glue a metal or plastic "puck" of the same diameter as
the bare roller on top of it before recoating it. It's simpler than
machining the cap I show in my video, but you still need to have someone
machine a simple disk part on a lathe. That should be pretty cheap.
Solution two requires someone good at making rubber. It would be to cast a
rubber cap of the right diameter and thickness, and with a pocket on the
bottom so you can slip it or glue it over the existing bare capstan. So you
would not need to machine anything, just slip it over the bare capstan. If
anyone knows about an outfit that can do this, or can explain to me how to
cast rubber, let me know.
Marc
This talk of tape gear reminds me that some may not have seen the
availability in Wichita of some tape gear and the like I posted back in
July.
Such as StorageTek 9-track, Tandberg QIC, Exabyte 8mm, Xerox-branded 9
track, at least one working 3480, Avix UNIBUS tape controller boards,
etc. A couple of PDP 11/34s; you get the idea.
Contact
Shaun Halstead
Microfilm Services, Inc.
Wichita, Ks
(316) 269-2203
A friendly reminder for those who didn't get the memo about their TPS
reports VCF East X: it's happening soon! The show is April 17-19 at the
InfoAge Science Center in Wall, New Jersey. That's around 60 minutes
south of Manhattan and 90 minutes northeast of Philadelphia.
- Friday's schedule has 16 technical classes and a PDP-8 50th
anniversary ceremony.
- Saturday/Sunday's agenda has morning keynotes, two exhibit halls open
the rest of the day, the PDP-8 Pavilion, consignment, vendors, museum
tours, etc.
Tickets are available online and at the door.
http://vintage.org/2015/east/http://facebook.com/vcfeasthttp://twitter.com/vcfeast
Hope to see you there!
- Evan K.
We just sorted and shelved the following boards, most of which I will never
use. If you are interested in any or all, feel free to make an offer off
list.
There are a few non DEC ones I have to figure out yet, otherwise this
should be most of them.
If you need L boards not listed here, let me know. I have a friend who
has some.
Quantities available on most.
Thanks, Paul
F1002
F1003
F1004
F1005
F1006
F1007
F1008
F1009
F1010
F1013
F1021
L0007
L0008
L0104
L0107
L0108
L0109
L0115
L0217
L0225
M7463
M8238
M8286
M8287
M8288
M8289
M8373 X 14
M8574? I need to recheck part number on the last 2.
M8576?
Have a Burroughs B25-K2I keyboard for sale.
Best regards,
Ed Hogan
Unimetrix Corporation
20371 Lake Forest Drive
Suite A-7
Lake Forest, CA 92630
Phone: 949-215-2475 x101
Toll Free: 800-633-9955 x101
FAX: 949-215-2472
Email: ehogan at unimetrix.com
Web: www.unimetrix.com <http://www.unimetrix.com/>
THIS COMMUNICATION MAY CONTAIN CONFIDENTIAL AND/OR OTHERWISE PROPRIETARY
MATERIAL and is thus for use only by the intended recipient. If you received
this in error, please contact the sender and delete the e-mail and its
attachments from all computers.
> On Mar 31, 2015, at 4:00 PM, John Foust <jfoust at threedee.com> wrote:
>
> At 01:14 PM 3/30/2015, Paul Koning wrote:
>> I think iSCSI target support is now a standard Linux iSCSI feature. If not standard, at least reasonably mainstream. I haven???t tried it, but I see plenty of references to it on the Linux iSCSI mailing list.
>
> Are they running old tape devices on it?
Tape? Not that I know of. In principle iSCSI can handle tape, but I don?t know if it?s been done at all, never mind in Linux.
paul
Hey all --
I'm looking for an image of the EPROM on the CMD CDU-710/M or /TM UNIBUS
SCSI adapters. The 720s have been archived, but only the /T (tape only)
variants are imaged for the 710...
Anyone out there have one of these boards and be willing to dump the ROMs?
Thanks in advance,
Josh
> On Mar 30, 2015, at 1:23 PM, John Foust <jfoust at threedee.com> wrote:
>
> At 11:47 AM 3/27/2015, Liam Proven wrote:
>> On 27 March 2015 at 17:36, Bob Brown <bbrown at harpercollege.edu> wrote:
>>> Does anyone know if a usb --> scsi adapter might allow me to connect an hp 9-track tape drive (7980s) to a computer running windows-7?
>
> Hasn't someone somewhere created an iSCSI stack that would let
> an old PC run Linux and use an old SCSI card (of appropriate
> interface) to talk to old hardware, but speak to the
> new PC and new software over the network?
I think iSCSI target support is now a standard Linux iSCSI feature. If not standard, at least reasonably mainstream. I haven?t tried it, but I see plenty of references to it on the Linux iSCSI mailing list.
paul
Looking for offers on the subject item.
Best regards,
Ed Hogan
Unimetrix Corporation
20371 Lake Forest Drive
Suite A-7
Lake Forest, CA 92630
Phone: 949-215-2475 x101
Toll Free: 800-633-9955 x101
FAX: 949-215-2472
Email: ehogan at unimetrix.com
Web: www.unimetrix.com <http://www.unimetrix.com/>
THIS COMMUNICATION MAY CONTAIN CONFIDENTIAL AND/OR OTHERWISE PROPRIETARY
MATERIAL and is thus for use only by the intended recipient. If you received
this in error, please contact the sender and delete the e-mail and its
attachments from all computers.
Any idea what this came out of? I was thinking some fixed head hard drive,
but I'm not sure. It looks new. The coil resistance is about 4 ohms and
>from measuring it, seems to be center-tapped.
http://imgur.com/a/mHZS4
Thanks,
Kyle
> From: Al Kossow
> I have several of them.
Wow. I'm totally stunned! Do you have any 3-Mbit transceivers to go with them?
If you (or anyone) need, I can provide old code for an IP/PUP router to
connect a 3-Mbit Ethernet to a 10-Mbit (if you want to put, say, an Alto on
the Internet - not sure if they ever did a 10-Mbit card for the Altos). It
would need either a UNIBUS 11, or a QBUS 11 and a QBUS->UNIBUS converter. (The
DEC one is UNIBUS->QBUS, so would not help us.)
> Anyone still have Unibus Chaosnet cards?
Another rara avis! (I don't remember if they ever made any QBUS ones.)
Noel
> From: Rich Alderson
> SAIL .. did not use the MEIS (Massbus-Ethernet Interface Subsystem) for
> Ethernet connectivity, but rather a Unibus card from Xerox (apparently
> used to hook -11s to D-machines) which went into the front end 11/40 on
> the KL-10.
If this is the card I'm thinking of (we got two as part of the Xerox donation
of Altos, a Dover, etc to MIT, BITD), it's to a 3-MBit Experimental Ethernet,
not to a 10-MBit Ethernet, and so won't be much use unless you have something
else with a 3-MBit Ethernet (and of course you'd also need 3-MBit
transceivers, etc, etc).
And of courset those cards were made in very, very limited numbers; if any
survive to this day, I will be absolutely astonished.
If you have a pointer to the PDP-11 code, I can take a look at it and confirm
if it's a 3-MBit card. (The hardware packet header format is completely
different from that for a 10-MBit.)
Noel
I just got off the phone with a gent who has a 7,000 sq foot warehouse in
NJ. He has old ALR, Unisys, and Burroughs servers, terminals, keyboards,
and storage (9GB drives).
If you are interested, send him an email at ehogan at unimetrix.com. His name
is Ed Hogan.
Cindy Croxton
> From: Al Kossow
> There was a 10mb card Xerox made
[later]
> There never was a 10mb card.
??
> I would be interested in the code for an 11.
Alas, the CGW code online at MIT:
http://web.mit.edu/afs/net/project/cgw/
doesn't contain the PDP-11 version (or the Experimental Ethernet drivers,
etc). I have the hardcopy of the PDP-11 version, and somewhere on the MIT V6+
Unix tapes that I'm currently trying to excavate, there will be
machine-readable, but I've been trying to get to those for some months
now... too much else to do! :-( If you get to a point where you need it, let
me know, and if I don't already have it done, I'll move it up the priority
list.
Noel
At first I thought this was an April Fools prank pulled a day early, then I went and checked and found out that because 2015 is a leap year, March only had 29 days instead of the usual 31.
Tim.
Long story short: It turns out that SAIL, the DEC-1080 running WAITS at
the Stanford Artificial Intelligence Laboratory, did not use the MEIS
(Massbus-Ethernet Interface Subsystem) for Ethernet connectivity, but rather
a Unibus card from Xerox (apparently used to hook -11s to D-machines) which
went into the front end 11/40 on the KL-10.
So: Does anyone on the list have such a device, and are you willing to part
with it? Or to loan it for reverse engineering? Or do you know someone who
has one who does not read ClassicCmp?
Please contact me off-list. I've directed Outlook to set the Reply-to: field,
but who knows if it listens, or if the list software will leave it in place.
Thanks,
Rich
Rich Alderson
Sr. Systems Engineer
Living Computer Museum
2245 1st Ave S
Seattle, WA 98134
http://www.LivingComputerMuseum.org/
All ?
After a long time, I?m playing with this 1995-vintage DIY 32-bit OS called
MMYRTL by Rich Burgess. Does anyone have any experience with running and
building it? If so, could you ping me off-list. I have a quick question on
it.
Thanks!
Rich
--
Rich Cini
Collector of Classic Computers
Build Master and lead engineer, Altair32 Emulator
http://www.classiccmp.org/cinihttp://www.classiccmp.org/altair32
So the roller on my -85A tape drive is marginally ok, but finding the tapes
for that which work reliably is not really an option. So I was going to
attempt the conversion to make the drive use DC2000 tapes.
Marc - thanks for the great video of this process at
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IQKCiS0w2s
The process basically involves making the capstan roller "taller". Marc's
approach is to use a lathe and fabricate a taller capstan roller and he
suggests using heat shrink tubing to make the capstan roller taller as an
alternative. I do not have a lathe, so the first option is out. While the
second option would work, according to the video it "just barely makes the
capstan roller contact the bottom portion of the tape capstan wheel". That
concerns me, as if it's "barely making contact" I'm concerned that over time
this would wear the capstan roller motor shaft and perhaps wear down the
wheel, not to mention potential vibration.
So. two questions: What SHOULD the outer diameter of a good capstan roller
be on that drive, and does anyone have other suggestions for how to make the
capstan roller "taller"?
J
Never mind, I asked for help in the series80 Yahoo group, and this is
actually the right package. My problem came from elsewhere (issues in making
an error-free 5.25 HP-formatted floppy, its fixed now). The disc image below
has both the HP86/87 and the HP83/85 versions on it. Works great, now my
HP85 can be a cute serial terminal. Thanks Jay W. for the pointer to the
software package, I had been trying to do this for a while.
Marc
>From: "Marc Verdiell" <marc.verdiell at gmail.com>
>Does anyone have a copy of the Data Communications Pac for the HP 83/85?
>It's a rather well done combo BASIC/Assembly package that turns your HP 85
>into a terminal emulator (Jay alerted me to it). This HP Computer Museum
>link claims this is it:
>http://www.hpmuseum.net/display_item.php?sw=9
>But when you download and extract the linked image it is actually the HP
>86/87 version. I haven't been able to locate the HP 83/85 version of that
>PAC.
>Marc
> From: Mike Ross
> That's a very interesting project. Do you have plans to make this
> thing available in some form once the bugs are out?
> [...]
You bet. I've kept component availability, manufacturability, and cost in mind from the beginning, which is why I've gone with a custom board instead of a mess of expensive development kits. Plus, I love designing new hardware, so I'm always looking for excuses to do it. The controller will need to mature a little before I let it loose on the world though.
Right now I have (mostly) working:
Block level access to the packs via USB Mass Storage (i.e. dd if=/dev/sdX of=/home/user/rl02.img)
SIMH image compatibility (attach rl0 /home/user/rl02.img)
SIMH real-time drive access (attach rl0 /dev/sdX). Yes, you can attach a real RL02 to SIMH transparently on linux (since everything is a file, even devices). I'm not sure what it would take on Windows.
Still to do:
Add more drive status probing (so you don't have to restart the controller board (powered over USB) if turning off the drive or changing packs)
Testing of write, allowing restoration of disk images or disk reformatting (FAT16 anyone?) (implemented, but untested until read problems are fixed)
Design the final board to plug into the external berg connector (that one might be tricky)
Integration of XXDP style RL02 diagnostics into the controller (but more friendly).
Bug fixes and loads more pack/drive combination compatibility testing.
Christopher
Hi,
Just a random couple of requests -- for a while I've been looking for a
replacement HP Apollo 735/125 PSU (pic attached). Or alternatively, a
schematic for this one so I can get an expert to repair it :)
Also - for testing QBus cards - I'm interested in a small standalone
backplane that I can power independently. Anyone have something they
want to get rid of?
(Pref North America for shipping reasons :)
Thanks
--Toby
Hi all,
Over the last months I scanned micro fiches with XXDP diagnostic program
listings.
These listings are essential for repairing PDP-11's (or enhancing SimH).
I digitized 330 listings from 452 fiches, with a total of 53545 document
pages.
Almost all of them should be new stuff.
The PDFs are ready for download now.
Until they appear at bitsavers.org, you can use my link:
ftp://u58104846-pub:open4you at ftp.j-hoppe.de
(Note the embedded user/password strings)
The scans come in two versions: "high quality" and "black&white":
The HQ version is gray level and contains a true image of the micro
fiches, after non-destructive contrast enhancement. It is the base for
further image processing.
Download path is ./fichescanner/hq/gh
The BW version is compressed to black & white and aggressively optimized
for size and letter quality. File sizes are 20x smaller than the HQ
version. Its intended for daily use and OCR, but for some very
problematic fiches textual information is lost.
Download path is ./fichescanner/bw/gh
And there is a background article on
http://retrocmp.com/projects/scanning-micro-fiches
describing the self-build automatic micro fiche scanner (video!)
Enjoy!
Joerg
This one is in the UK. I am not sure exactly where - waiting on further
response from the owner.
Description I initially received:
-----
PDP11/23, Microvax with a number of boards and a Uni-bus adapter, Q U back
plane plus some documentation.
The RX01 drives passed away many years ago but the main board I think I
still have.
Unfortunately the power supply is dead, and should take swimming lessons in
Maynard Mill pond.
-----
I then received a followup email with the following info:
-----
I {used to work at} a little company then called DEC.
This was a single system used for silicon testing as there is an IEEE bus
interface card.
-----
So this is interesting in that it has a unibus adapter, and an IEEE bus
interface card. And... may have actually been used within DEC (from what he
says above)?
Anyways, further information will not be available until after Easter (it's
being dug out and verified for parts and descriptions). If you're in the UK
and interested, please email me off-list.
Best,
J
I was exploring the idea of doing it without requiring an old PC w/SCSI card.
-Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of John Foust
Sent: Monday, March 30, 2015 12:23 PM
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: USB --> SCSI
At 11:47 AM 3/27/2015, Liam Proven wrote:
>On 27 March 2015 at 17:36, Bob Brown <bbrown at harpercollege.edu> wrote:
>> Does anyone know if a usb --> scsi adapter might allow me to connect an hp 9-track tape drive (7980s) to a computer running windows-7?
Hasn't someone somewhere created an iSCSI stack that would let an old PC run Linux and use an old SCSI card (of appropriate
interface) to talk to old hardware, but speak to the new PC and new software over the network?
Is the end-goal running 'mt' and 'tar' within Cygwin under Windows?
If the goal requires talking to the Windows machine's filesystem, aren't there lots of ways to solve that from an old Linux machine?
This topic was covered in July 2014 and December 2012 if you check the archives.
- John
At 11:47 AM 3/27/2015, Liam Proven wrote:
>On 27 March 2015 at 17:36, Bob Brown <bbrown at harpercollege.edu> wrote:
>> Does anyone know if a usb --> scsi adapter might allow me to connect an hp 9-track tape drive (7980s) to a computer running windows-7?
Hasn't someone somewhere created an iSCSI stack that would let
an old PC run Linux and use an old SCSI card (of appropriate
interface) to talk to old hardware, but speak to the
new PC and new software over the network?
Is the end-goal running 'mt' and 'tar' within Cygwin under Windows?
If the goal requires talking to the Windows machine's filesystem,
aren't there lots of ways to solve that from an old Linux machine?
This topic was covered in July 2014 and December 2012 if you
check the archives.
- John
Does anyone have a copy of the Data Communications Pac for the HP 83/85?
It's a rather well done combo BASIC/Assembly package that turns your HP 85
into a terminal emulator (Jay alerted me to it). This HP Computer Museum
link claims this is it:
http://www.hpmuseum.net/display_item.php?sw=9
But when you download and extract the linked image it is actually the HP
86/87 version. I haven't been able to locate the HP 83/85 version of that
PAC.
Marc
Does anyone know if a usb --> scsi adapter might allow me to connect an hp 9-track tape drive (7980s) to a computer running windows-7?
Has anyone done it?
Any pointers (drivers etc)?
Thanks.
-Bob
I thought my latest little retrocomputing project might beof interest.?A few weeks ago, our accounting department trashed some oldequipment that had been in a closet sine the 70?s.? Because it was all fully depreciated long ago, the stuff wasup for grabs.? Most of it was junk,but they did have 5 HP 9100B calculators that seemed to be in pretty goodphysical shape.? These are from the1960?s, and are pretty huge for a calculator, by today?s standards.? I tried them all, and they all seemedto have some pretty weird behavior.?When you hit the ?+? key, it doesn?t wait for another number, butinstead adds the last row directly to the second row.? I suppose that?s why these have been out of commission allthese years.?
View image: Strange calculator behavior
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| View image: Strange calculator behaviorhttp://postimg.org/image/rnyl9uexz/ Link copy to clipboard http://s23.postimg.org/otvfwecrv/Strange_calculator_behavior.jpg Direct Link copy to clipboard ? |
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I figured since they are free, I?d pick one up and find aproject for it.? They do have somepretty cool cases.? They had someprinters as well, off in a corner, but I was more interested in using thecalculator as the basis for some kind of retrocomputing project, and theprinters were not compatible with anything else, so I passed.?This weekend, while cleaning up the lab, I came across anold Jumptec PC104 form-factor board with a 486 processor and an add-on LCDcontroller.? I figured this couldbe the perfect ?upgrade? for the 9100B.?Luckily, the HP machine was very well designed, and easy todisassemble.? I was very easilyable to fit the PCM-104 stack, a power supply, screen, SD card, and HappyHacking keyboard.? Almost a perfectfit!!?View image: Out with the old, in with the new!!
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| View image: Out with the old, in with the new!!http://postimg.org/image/6051lnp5z/ Link copy to clipboard http://s23.postimg.org/5am99aomj/Out_with_the_old_in_with_the_new.jpg Direct Link copy to clipb... |
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Of course, no retro-computer is complete without a properretro-operating system.? Here youcan see the project in near final shape, running windows 95Perhaps some time inthe future, I?ll upgrade this to a more modern processor, but for now, justpure retrocomputing goodness!
View image: Up and running, retro style!
| ? |
| ? | | ? | ? | ? | ? | ? |
| View image: Up and running, retro style!http://postimg.org/image/xm7t6c8iv/ Link copy to clipboard http://s23.postimg.org/ki28tngh7/Up_and_running_retro_style.jpg Direct Link copy to clipboard ? |
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?Future upgrades include:??????Laser-cutting or 3d-printing a proper faceplatefor the keyboard, and transplanting the keyboard PCB directly to the case.??????Adding some LED strip-lighting for a morestriking presentation.?Let me know what you think!?Dave
I have a TF85 I want to install into a BA440 enclosure. I took the mounting
rails from a TK70 and combined it with the small board from an RF drive
which has the DSSI cable and a power cable. I plugged the power cable into a
socket on a board attached to the drive. The drive itself has another power
socket. I assumed it was getting power from the socket on the board attached
to the drive, but when I power on the machine, the tape drive itself appears
not to get any power. Is there supposed to be a special board that goes into
the mounting that has *two* power cables?
I have tried to find documentation on this but have not been able to find
anything.
Thanks
Rob
I figured a goodly number of folks here would appreciate this:
http://hackaday.com/2015/03/26/hackaday-retro-edition-remaking-the-pdp-8i-w…
It's a clone of a PDP-8I front using modern parts and driven by Raspberry
Pi running SIMH.
--
David Griffith
dave at 661.org
A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?
I have two Vishay Siliconix DG506AR Single 16Ch/Differential 8Ch CMOS
Analog Multiplexers free for shipping. I tried selling them on Ebay and
got no nibbles at all. These are white-ceramic with white lids. I found
them in a small box labeled as though they were free samples from Vishay.
The foam appears to have consumed a bit of the gold, but they should work
okay. See them in
https://www.flickr.com/photos/32548582 at N02/sets/72157647852420954/.
Note: I'm keeping that curious-looking paper tape punch.
--
David Griffith
dave at 661.org
A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?
Hi,
I'm looking for someone in the UK with commercial experience of TRU64 UNIX,
preferably with ORACLE, if anyone can help, please let me know.
Regards
Jim.
I would like to find the front bezel for a HP RX2620. The one I have has the
tabs that hold it in place broken off. There is one on Ebay, but with
postage from the US it adds up. Does anyone have one in the UK that they are
willing to part with?
I also wouldn't mind finding an optical drive for this machine, they seem
pretty hard to find, so again, anyone have one to spare?
Thanks
Rob
I'm looking for a "Dual I/O cable assembly", DEC part number D-IA-7006289-0-0. This cable links a PDP-8/I with the KV8-I graphics display option to a VT01 display and an H306 joystick. All I know at this point is that the cable connects to the 8/I via a G778 interface card and terminates at the other end in a 25-pin Cannon connector for the display (actually a Tek 611 display monitor) and a 9-pin Amphenol connector for the joystick.
Does anyone have one of these display systems?
I would be happy to find the cable but short of that, it would be a big help to have more info on the G778 interface card so I can build a cable.
Thanks,
Jack
Hello,
I just received from a friend a Dilog SU723A, but I don't find any
documentation about it.
The board is rev.D and has two 50 pin connectors on top... which one
should be used?
From a quick look at the ICs on the PCB, I suspect one connector is for
single ended, the other for differential SCSI,
but I'm not sure about it...
Anybody has some info / manual / other ROM dumps? My ROM image is
available if somebody is interested on it.
As I suspect that the same board could support also SU726A, if would be
nice if somebody has ROMs and/or PLA
dumps, could be interesting in being able to switch between features.
Thanks
Andrea
So I've just upgraded several BDV11's to Q22 (new EPROMs to handle more than
256KB of memory, adding termination for BDAL18-21, etc). If anyone has a BDV11
they want to update, let me know, and I can lend a hand, e.g. sending you new
EPROMs, lists of jumpers to change, etc.
Noel
> From: Josh Dersch
> I've been reading through the service manual on Bitsavers
> From: Paul Koning
> A schematic or manual might give a clue, if one can be found.
> From: Jon Elson
> Have you checked bitsavers for a manual?
!! :-)
Noel
TSIA. I'm in need of an owner's manual (and ideally, a service manual as
well would be nice) for a Northern Telecom Spectron D101. This is an RS232
serial datascope, basically a line monitor with some programmability
(displays in binary, hex, ascii, or octal; start tracking on certain
characters; substitute X string for Y string; etc.).
I've googled excessively with no results, and also reached out to AEK. Any
chance someone has one in their pile?
Best,
J
I'm gradually restoring a Mac SE/30. Today I got a new PRAM battery and
installed it. There was no battery leakage, so I'm good there. The
machine seems to run just fine. The big problem now is that even though
nothing should be emitted from the speaker, I'm getting zips, buzzes, and
burbles from it depending on what the computer is doing at the time. I'm
quite sure the the sound circuitry is somehow picking up RF noise from the
system bus. What does this symptom indicate? Should I recap the whole
machine?
--
David Griffith
dave at 661.org
A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?
By any chance does anyone have a line on the sets of metal drawers that
were used to store decks of punchcards? I know someone who's looking for
a bunch of them (ideally in/near New England, USA, but, whatever!).
Thanks,
John Wilson
The UC171 was a quantity one and is gone. Others are gone, but I still have
one or so left, plus a few goodies I'm just adding. Please contact me off
list. Any qty $10 shipping within US.
Paul
DILOG
DQ130
DQ686
Emulex
CS09
SC01
SC03
TU11
TU121
QD01
QD21
QD241
QT131
GTSC 304B DLV11-J?
SIGMA 400310
MATROX ELECTRONICS SYS QRGB-G/64
MATROX 80 QRGB-256
SPECTRA LOGIC 15/25
ABLE (ACT) 10067 LOOKS LIKE QUINEVERTOR
ABLE 10412 SAME
Please contact me off list if you are interested.
Thanks, Paul
That is a highly impressive autocoder implementation, and the article is an entertaining, yet deep and accurate technical overview of what makes the 1401 so special from a computer engineering point of view. One of the best short technical piece I've ever seen on the 1401. If the two machines work at the same time, I will certainly try to run it on one while making shorter demos on the second!
Marc
Sent from my iPad
> On Mar 24, 2015, at 10:00 AM, cctalk-request at classiccmp.org wrote:
>
> Re: Implementing the Mandelbrot set on an IBM 1401
I've been recovering old data from computers that I used many years ago,
the last effort was trying to recover the data from a hard disk that ran
a WFW 3.11 system. The problem was the disk could not be read on a
modern computer, so I recreated an old system and (very lucky for me)
ftp'd the data off the system after I found an ISA network card.
I have a couple of 4mm and 8mm tapes that contain data I want to
recover. The 4mm is DDS-1 and was written using tar on a SGI system in
1998. My questions are;
'What modern DAT tape drive will read this tape? How backward
compatible is this technology?'
This seems like an easy problem and intend to use a linux system to read
the tape.
The 8mm tapes were also written on an SGI system, however it was in 1994
and the IRIX Backup utility was used. IRIX 5 was probably used. Any ideas?
>From what I've been able to find, it was 50 years ago today
that the PDP-8 was officially launched. So Happy Birthday
to a machine that had such significant influence on so many
of us. And a big Thank You to all those who helped to create
it.
In recognition of this anniversary, the PDP-8/M restoration
I'm doing (on S/N 07082) reached the stage today where I
connected a terminal and was able to push characters in and
out of it. Even as I type this, it's running the print test program
>from the maintenance manual printing ASCII characters on
a terminal.
Happy PDP-8 Day, everyone!
BLS
It had a significant impact onsome of us. I remember in my high school
electronics class in '67 seeing/watching the teacher use/ demonstrate
it. I was hooked om computing ever since. Happy birthday indeed if
it's appropriate to wish an non-entity such!
Happy computing,
Murray :)
So one of my Tek 1240s had incredibly sticky buttons on the front panel
(basically, _all_ of them would stick, and have to be pried out manually). I
had _very_ good results with the following very simple procedure (which is
_not_ in the service manual :-) to totally cure the problem.
Your results may differ, since the problem may have different causes in other
cases; in mine, there was lot of fine dust in the keyboard area, and it
apparently had gotten into the button mechanism, which has a lot of sliding
parts with tight tolerances.
i) Remove the keyboard PCB: the Service Manual, Volume I (available online)
explains how to get the keyboard out - roll up the logic cage, and then you
can undo 4 small bolts, after which the keyboard just comes off. You will
also need to remove two flat cables. Next, remove the scroll button (usual
hex set screw holds it on the shaft), and then separate the cover from the
actual keyboard PCB by removing the four hex stand-off posts.
ii) Take the button assembly out of the PCB; it's just a press-fit, not glued
- just push on it from the solder side of the PCB (may need a fair amount of
force). The buttons consist of precisely 5 parts: the keytop, which comes
off/on easily (I usually remove them, but you could probably leave them on),
the housing, the shaft/actuator, a spring, and a gold-plated copper contact
bar (which connects two gold-plated contacts on the PCB, to form the switch).
iii) Immerse the button assembly in water, and _while immersed_, push the
shaft/actuator back and forth a number of times. If it's totally binding, and
won't come out at all, use a small object of some kind down the cylindrical
shaft to get it to go back and forth. If there is an air bubble trapped in the
cylindrical shaft, make sure to clear it - that shaft is one of the places
dirt can get and bind things up. Pretty soon it should operate completely
freely.
iv) Needless to say, dry thoroughly before replacing... :-)
In theory one could take the button assembly apart to clean it, but I'd be
_really_ worried I'd damage the contact, or something. I just left it all
together and dunked it in water, and that worked wonderfully.
For the 5 LED buttons, it's basically the same. The LEDs are _not_ glued into
the button assemblies, just inserted into the cylindrical shaft. _Carefully_
remove the LED from the shaft, and bend it back out of the way. Then proceed
as above.
Hope someone finds this useful! It's tedious, doing all 30 or so keys, but it
works well.
Noel
The Atlanta Historical Computing Society and the Computer Museum of America
has been planning a great celebration of the 50th birthday of the PDP-8,
40th of the Altair 8800, and 30th of the Amiga 1000 in Roswel, GA, for the
Vintage Computer Festival Southeast 3.0. However, we need your help in
exhibiting! Last year, we had about 400 people through the doors between
two days. We'd love for you to sign up and bring your hardware to show off
to the Atlanta community.
I'll be there with dueling PDP-8s (/E and /M) playing chess, as well as
taking turns playing Spacewar! on age-appropriate hardware. I'll also show
off my emulated version based around SimH. And that's just at my table!
Steve Lafferty has summed up (quite nicely) the signup process for those
who have not done it before. Check it out!
http://tronola.com/html/vcfse3_exhibitor_info.html
Here's the link on vintage.org as well:
http://www.vintage.org/2015/southeast/
If you have any questions, feel free to ask me.
Kyle Owen
Member, AHCS
I hope this is not too long story, but I'd like to start from beginning...
I was selling and donating my 80's computer collection away, because I really couldn't get anymore kicks of home computers (gateaway theory is right, Commodores are step to mainframes ...)
Anyways, I asked every buyer have they seen any thing big, old computers anywhere here in Finland. One guy gave hint of some truck sized IBM, which he had seen at his old job. He told it is probably going to scrap yard and he sent photo of it. I was stunned, FULL 1800 SYSTEM.
Next step was find boss who decide what is going to happen that IBM. I called him and asked how's IBM. Firstly he thought I'm gold digger. After some talk, he became convinced I'm real deal. Sadly, he told me that IBM is in their private museum, and not for sale or not planned to donate anywhere. But he invited me to see that IBM. I was little dissapointed, but better than nothing I thought.
After couple months, I went to there to see IBM. Boss had changed at that time, there was new guy. He also understand historical value of that big iron, no doubt it. We drove plant where that IBM was. When I see it, I was stunned. It was absolute spectacular! It was stood 30 years after service in dry and warm warehouse, same place where it installed early 70's. It have stood still almost long as I have wander this world! Time was stopped that room, it looks like we have got back to 80's on time machine. 2311 disk packs was left probably just where they are 30 years ago.
Here's pic: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B_DR111cK6W-NnRINlhESk5aNUk&authuser=0
System contains 1801 CPU, 1803 additional core storage unit, 2841 drive adapter, couple 2311 hard drives, 1826 data adapter, 1443 printer, terminals, card readers/punches, etc... It is giant system!
Now comes twist to plot, this new boss suddenly asked: "When you could make pickup for this IBM?". I'm not that type guy, who can get be quiet that easy, but I could just stutter something like "I can pickup every you want". :D
So, I was so excited, own IBM 1800, that is just what I have always wanted, own mainframe :D (...360 would be even better but this would do the trick as well ;) We have not that much computers back 60's or 70's. like below 200 at 1970. So you can imagine how rare big iron is here and it is totally unlikely you could find anything this good at Finland these days.
**************
But now comes the problem. This IBM is in second floor. There is only (wide) staircase down to street level. So cabinets have to partly disassemble to light those "little" bit.
I would need some kind of document of wireharness and schematics, so I get it back together. Also good pictures inside of cabinets would help, so I know what is waiting me there. And by the way, what weights so much these units? CPU weights 907kg, why? Is power supplies so heavy or is there lead poured to structure ;) ?
I'm picking this up next week, at least small items, so I would need some good advices also. Rolling cabinets via stair case is not option ;)
Also any help to bring this back to life is welcome! Thaaaaaanks!
- Johannes ThelenFinland
Before microcomputers blog (Finnish) http://ennenmikrotietokoneita.blogspot.fi/
A classic case of Mac SE leaking electrolytic caps. Soon your sound will
disappear completely. Then your Mac SE/30 won't even boot. You can confirm
looking for shiny leaks traces around the caps. Very easy to take care of.
Replace all of them, as they will all go bad. But there aren't many of them,
I think I counted just 11. Most of them are of the 10 uF variety if I
remember. Surface mount with leads hidden underneath the caps, a bit
annoying to remove, but you can pretty much break them off the board
carefully. The leads should break off at the cap and stay attached on the
board. Then desolder the lead remnants and clean off the old solder with
copper wick until you get pristine pads. Clean any spilled electrolyte under
the caps thoroughly. Replace them with regular 10 uF ones - or whatever
value is needed. I used standard axial through holes ones, just soldered the
bent leads on the traces. It's even written on the board where the + go!
Thanks Steve Jobs. If I could attach pictures of the before and after, I
would... I can send them to you off line if you want. Actually I see your
email, I will.
Marc
On 20/03/2015 6:39 PM, <dave at 661.org> wrote:
> I'm gradually restoring a Mac SE/30. Today I got a new PRAM battery
> and installed it. There was no battery leakage, so I'm good there.
> The machine seems to run just fine. The big problem now is that even
> though nothing should be emitted from the speaker, I'm getting zips,
> buzzes, and burbles from it depending on what the computer is doing at
> the time. I'm quite sure the the sound circuitry is somehow picking
> up RF noise from the system bus. What does this symptom indicate?
> Should I recap the whole machine?
>
> David Griffith
> dave at 661.org
30 years after it was set by Dr Stephen Vickers.
An orchestra of a dozen -- networked! -- original ZX Spectrum
computers plays Mahler's 1st symphony.
A rather lovely 10min film:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxPXLIALJJI
--
Liam Proven ? Profile: http://lproven.livejournal.com/profile
Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? GMail/G+/Twitter/Flickr/Facebook: lproven
MSN: lproven at hotmail.com ? Skype/AIM/Yahoo/LinkedIn: liamproven
Cell/Mobiles: +44 7939-087884 (UK) ? +420 702 829 053 (?R)
Hi All,
Long time reader, first time poster.
I am in need of some assistance in trying to revive an IBM 5100. It is a
Basic 32k version that was in rough shape. You can see pics here:
http://vintagecomputer.ca/ibm-5100-before/
I've been able to clean it up but when I fire it up I see a single "A" on
screen. I can't seem to get into any diagnostic modes. The single "A"
indicates an issue with the F2 Base I/O card. Some of the ICs do have some
rust on them but I'm wondering if it might be the "bridge connectors"
between the Base I/O and Controller (CPU) card. Are they directional or
can then be swapped or turned around? I may have not kept them in the
correct orientation but I don't see any mention in the Maintenance manual.
I, pretty much, need someone who has one to take a picture of the top of
their Base I/O and Controller cards.
Any help is much appreciated. If someone happens to know a common issue
that would make the "Bring up Program" stop at A, I'd love to hear about it.
Thanks in advance,
Santo
Hi, I acquited (with a Tek 1240 I recently got) a 1200C02 GPIB Comm Pack,
which I have no use for. Dunno if it works or not. Looking for a good home
for it - shipping plus whatever donation the receiver feels is appropriate.
Noel
Hi all,
I have a Problem Solver Systems (PSS) RAM65 card that I would like to get working in my IMSAI 8080, but I can not find any manuals for it online.
Does anyone on the list have a manual they could possibly scan for me.
Much thanks in advance.
Philip
> From: J?rg Hoppe
> Over the last months I scanned micro fiches with XXDP diagnostic
> program listings ... I digitized 330 listings from 452 fiches, with a
> total of 53545 document pages.
Wow! That is a fantastic job, and I'm sure they will be incredibly useful
to the community. Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!
Noel
Joerg,
On Sat, 21 Mar 2015 07:46:09 +0100
J?rg Hoppe <j_hoppe at t-online.de> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Over the last months I scanned micro fiches with XXDP diagnostic
> program listings.
> These listings are essential for repairing PDP-11's (or enhancing
> SimH). I digitized 330 listings from 452 fiches, with a total of
> 53545 document pages.
> Almost all of them should be new stuff.
--snip--
Great job. A serious "labor of love". Thanks a LOT!
Cheers,
Lyle
--
Bickley Consulting West Inc.
http://bickleywest.com
"Black holes are where God is dividing by zero"
There seems to be quite a few options for a boot disk for a K4+88 here:
http://www.retroarchive.org/maslin/disks/kpro/
The unit has a 81-232 ROM.
Gene (again, thanks), sent some disks, but the 81-232 one did not work.
I created a disk from one of the images on the site, and the unit boots
(yay!), but not sure if I am using the best image for the unit.
Any particular image I should use?
Also, any links to the '88 stuff for this unit?
Jim
--
Jim Brain
brain at jbrain.comwww.jbrain.com
Well, i desolder the LB1620... it has obvious signs of burning under
the chips and also on the pcb.
I saw the smoke coming from that place but I thought it came from one
of cap of 2700pf instead came from the chip.
The short circuit between +24vdc and the ground is gone out.
+24vdc go just at pin 4 of the LB1620.
+24vdc to R112 and the D102 Zener that is saved so from here to pins: 19, 2
and 12 of the LB1620 then it continue to pin 16 of the TC9142P.
The datasheet of this last one say that the power voltage would be between
5Vdc and 9,5Vdc. So would this say that the zenere has to be from
5 to 9 vdc? Have i to measure the exact voltage on pin 16 of the TC9142P
without the LB1620 and how have i to expect?
The LB1620 is smoked. What other components must be tested to ensure
that the new LB1620 can not be broken just fitted?
Thanks a lot.
E.
--------- Original Message --------
Da: "General Discussion: On-Topic Posts" <cctech at classiccmp.org>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic Posts" <cctech at classiccmp.org>
Oggetto: Re: How to save two Mitsubishi M2896 drive (spindle motor smoked!)
Data: 02/03/15 04:20
Indeed, pin 4 (Vcc1) should be +24V, this is for the motor windings drive.
You need to look at pin 19 (Vcc2) of the LB1620 or the voltage across zener
D102.
Follow the pcb trace from the junction of R112 and D102, goes to pin 19,
looks like pins 9 & 2 as well, and on to supply the other ICs.
On 2015-Mar-01, at 1:38 PM, Enrico Lazzerini wrote:
>
> Mhmhm... i checked the pcb. The LB1620 pin 4 is wired to the pin on
which I
> think comes +24vdc... so... let me check what could happens before.
Could
> happens that is it broken something and it goes to this little pcb
+24vdc
> instead of 12-15vdc???
>
> I misured the voltage coming to this pcb and over there is +24VDC
> This explain well the why this pcb smoke and it is hot.
>
>
> Enrico
>
> -----Messaggio originale-----
> Da: cctech [mailto:cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org] Per conto di Brent
Hilpert
> Inviato: domenica 1 marzo 2015 22:08
> A: General Discussion: On-Topic Posts
> Oggetto: Re: How to save two Mitsubishi M2896 drive (spindle motor
smoked!)
>
>
> On 2015-Mar-01, at 9:56 AM, Enrico Lazzerini wrote:
>
>> Thanks Tony for your suggestions. What I means is:
>>
>> It happen in two distinct times every time when I used the drive
to read
>> through a PC with the software IMD to create images of floppy
disks 8 ".
> Not
>> having the correct power connectors i power the drives in this
way: + 5vdc
>> and ground coming by a PC power supply and +24vdc and ground from
a
> Chinese
>> power supply. I must have certainly reversed this last one even
for a few
>> seconds exchange +24vdc with the ground. Now both spindle motor
supplied
>> also with only +24vdc start smoking in the vicinity of the chip
LB1620 and
>> cause of cooling you can not touch it as hot it is. If I try to
measure
> the
>> resistance between pins +24vdc and ground of each spindle motor
drive i
> get
>> 1327ohm on FD0 while i measure 19ohm on the spindle motor drive
FD1. There
>> are no visible damage nor to the components nor the PCB wires.
>> In both pcbs anyway the chips LB1620 sunburnt from not being able
to keep
> a
>> finger on it.
>> I searched on ebay and the only place that has LB1620 seems to be:
>>
>
http://www.ebay.it/itm/LB1620-INTEGRATED-CIRCUIT-IC-BOX-74-/390955452872?pt=
>> LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5b06c2c9c8
>>
>> The input's pins of the pcb are : +24vdc, ground, and the rest
could be a
>> control.
>>
>> The point is that I have no experience on these components.
>> Replace the chip could make it burn again for my inexperience.
>>
>
> I notice in one of the photos you have written 15V for the zener D102,
and
> on both boards they look like they have been replaced.
>
> D102 and R112 are a simple regulator to reduce the +24V down for the
chip
> supplies (looking at the photos to trace the circuit).
> +24 is otherwise used directly only for the motor windings, in part
via Vcc1
> on the LB1620.
>
> The LB1620 datasheet specifies the Vcc2 range for the 1620 to be only
8.5 to
> 14V, not 15V.
>
> Check the Vcc2/zener level to see whether the zeners are good and what
> voltage they are.
> I expect Vcc2 (and the zener V) is supposed to be 12V or 9V.
>
--
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