- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by e.tedeschi＠ndirect.co.uk

Dear Friends, There is no desire from my part to start another flame war (but a discussion, yes) but in answer to the many that have expressed (here or privately) their total disinterest for the *meaning* the *history* and the *culture* behind our collections may I ask them to consider what their machines would mean without somebody behind (or rather in front) of them. Machines are just pieces of metal and plastic. They mean something because they are related to the minds, fingers, emotions, life, behaviours and destinies of the people behind them. YOU love so much that piece of hadware for what it meant to you (or to somebody else you are related with), to your life, to your history of for it meant to the history of mankind. So I am asking *you*, lover of the hardware to reconsider your thoughts and ask yourself what would your collection mean without all of the above. I, for one, will be glad to learn that you had second toughts about this. In either cases it could be useful to read here your motivations. Thanks -- ================================================================ Enrico Tedeschi, 54, Easthill Drive, BRIGHTON BN41 2FD, U.K. tel/fax +(0)1273 701650 (24 hours) or 0850 104725 mobile website <http://www.ndirect.co.uk/~e.tedeschi> ================================================================ visit Brighton: <http://www.brighton.co.uk/tourist/welcome.htm>

28 years, 9 months

4
9
0 0

AIM65

by dastar＠crl.com

Ok, here it is. Mike Westerfield, the guy with the AIM65s, phoned me yesterday and we spoke about the deal. He has been offered $125 for EACH unit from a company called Dynatem which still uses the AIMs commercially. Mike started a company way back with a product based on the AIM65. It was an insurance rate calculator. In order to make the product marketable, he designed a plastic and a metal-base enclosure. He also placed a compact power supply inside the enclosure to make for a nice complete package. He apparently was very successful with this venture and sold many. At this point, unless someone comes along and offers him more than $125 per unit and buys the whole lot, they are going to Dynatem. That's too rich for my blood. After explaining all this to me, and after I explained what we do here on classiccmp, Mike mentioned that he had a bunch of other stuff that we might be interested in. He has a whole basement full of stuff he would like to sell off. Here's what he told me he has: EPROM burners Logical Devices GangPro-S and GangPro-2S. These can burn 32 chips at a time. These also have other features which make them very nice. Logical Devices GangPro-8 and GangPro-4 which can burn 8 and 4 respectively. Optical Technologies EP-2A-88 and EP-2A-89. EPROMs A "ton" of NEC-2716 and Hitachi 2716 EPROMs He also has the line on hundreds of Panasonic RL-H18 palmtops. This is a palmtop which came out around 1985 and had FORTH in ROM. It also has a 20-col (or 40-col?) thermal printer and a case which bundles the two together. His company also developed an expansion "tray" which houses extra memory that the Panasonic can access through bank-switching. He sold this product to (I believe) an insurance firm and now they want to dump them all. Now again, he said they have hundreds, and were just going to shit-can them, but he said the company would most likely opt to get some money back for them if they could. He said probably about $10 per unit would get them, but they'd have to be purchased in one shot. Now I don't think that there are enough people here with an interest to buy one. I suggested that perhaps they can set aside a couple hundred and then shitcan the rest because I don't have a couple thousand lying around in which to buy all of them, nor would I want to. It's up to us to come up with a proposal. As far as dealing with Mike, I asked him contacting him. At this point, he would perfer the current arrangement whereby I am the central point of contact because it is easier for him. However, this tends to put me in a bad spot for certain reasons. I'm sure there will be people interested in working out a bulk deal with him. To those people I say feel free to contact him since he is most interested in getting rid of everything in one shot. He's not interested in dealing with onesies and twosies. So he would like for everyone who has an interest in a little here and a little there to contact me about it and then he's going to call me again in a week. This would refer mainly to someone wanting one of the panasonic's or a few EPROMs. As far as the Panasonics, he's finding out more information about quantity and we will talk more about price next week. As far as the EPROM burners, I would think that dealing directly with him would be best. Anyway, his e-mail address is Mikeooo1(a)aol.com. He's a very nice guy. He offered that if there was anyone in New Jersey (I believe there is at least one person here, I can't remember his name) to come on down to his place and he'll show you through all the stuff he has. Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass

28 years, 9 months

9
10
0 0

pieces of metal and plastic

by sinasohn＠crl.com

At 04:11 PM 6/24/97 +0000, you wrote: >I think that there is no need to get vulgar. If that is the general >feeling I apologise and widthdraw my question. Sorry There is no "general feeling". We are not the Borg. We are a bunch of individuals with differing opinions and attitudes. You are one of us, I am one of us, each of us is one of us. Some are more vocal than others. Take what is of use or of interest to you, and ignore the rest. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn(a)crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 9 months

3
2
0 0

MSX, TRS-80, Colour Genie, etc.

by coslor＠pscosf.peru.edu

Greeting: I am located in central Nebraska, USA, and am looking for the following to add to my collection. If you have these systems or might be able to get them for me at a reasonable price, PLEASE e-mail me. MSX computer Colour Genie TI 99/4a I am also looking for any old classic software for these types of computers. My specialty is the TRS-80 Model 1,3,4 computers. I am especially interested in TRS-80 and Apple ][e games at this time. If you would like a complete (65 page) listing of all my hardware and software available, please send me your mailing address. If you would like it immediately, please send $3 to the address below to cover shipping charges. Well, thanks a lot for your time, and I look forward to hearing from fellow collectors. Remember, I am always buying, selling, and trading. CORD COSLOR Archive Software //*=====================================================================++ || Cord G. Coslor P.O. Box 308 - 1300 3rd St. Apt "M1" -- Peru, NE || || (402) 872- 3272 coslor(a)bobcat.peru.edu 68421-0308 || || Classic computer software and hardware collector || || Autograph collector || ++=====================================================================*//

28 years, 9 months

2
1
0 0

Why?

by sinasohn＠crl.com

At 06:43 PM 6/21/97 +0000, you wrote: >I accept that....but you are such a big country. Isn't it about time you >start looking outside and try to understand other cultures? (no offence But we are a country of other cultures. My father came over from Germany as a boy. My mother was of english descent (going back to Ann Boleyn and Katherine(?) Howard, two of Henry VIII's wives). My sister is an honorary Nigerian. My girlfriend is Russian, French Canadian, and who knows what else. Her sister-in-law is a philippina. Some of my best friends include jamaicans, scotsman, irish, french, german, native american, japanese, chinese, aussies, South African, eritrean, and so on. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn(a)crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 9 months

3
2
0 0

Convergent Technology Computers

by ccm＠sentex.net

And don't forget the Workslate from Convergent. It was the slickest laptop around in 1984. Small LCD screen but built in voice digitization and voice mail system! No disk, only min-cassette. Kevin

28 years, 9 months

2
1
0 0

CLASSICCMP digest 93

by foxnhare＠goldrush.com

>From: Kai Kaltenbach <kaikal(a)MICROSOFT.com> >Subject: My current For Trade/Wanted List >-------------------- >Wanted: >Commodore PET dual floppy system model 2040 I would suggest looking for a 4040, they are compatible with the 1541 as the 2040 is, more 4040s were made, and you won't have to worry about getting DOS 1.0 ROMs (which should be upgraded) The single drive equivelant to the 4040 is the 2031. Larry Anderson -- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Visit our web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare Call our BBS (Silicon Realms BBS 300-2400 baud) at: (209) 754-1363 -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-

28 years, 9 months

1
0
0 0

apple II - SCORE!

by manney＠nwohio.nwohio.com

> My girlfriend is a professional sculptress, I don't know why I > didn't ask her to begin with. She recommended plain amonia, which I was > sceptical of. I wanted to use Formula 405 basically because you had > recommended it. Well, the amonia worked great and the case looks nearly > brand new - it sure took several hours though. ;-) Never doubt a woman I'm told that FANTASTIK handles static better than Formula 405. I noticed a reference to trichloroethane a few days ago. I usta use it years ago on Xeroxes. Be *careful* with it on hot parts. I'm told that on contact with hot metal, trichlor produces phosgene gas, which was one of the war gases used in WWI...slightly fatal. :> > You could remove the keys and actually clean the > contacts with alchohol. Is this possible, or am I just going to be able > to get dust bunnies between the keys? I've successfully used alcohol to clean keys by squirting it in there at high pressure from a bottle. Have you tried MEK? I think of alcohol (the kind without water) and MEK as safe on almost anything.

28 years, 9 months

1
0
0 0

A very nice evening

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

Last night, a saintly gentleman was kind enough to present me with several wonderful pieces of equipment and parts, including: - IBM 5100 with a box of tapes! - KIM-1 in original box(!) w/documentation, etc. - Altos 5000 series Z80A with built-in dual 8" (might give this away if u-pick-up) - Tandy 200 portable with docs & carrying case Plus a bunch of useful parts: - Two SoftStrip readers in original boxes w/docs, etc. - Three Shugart SA800 8" bare drives - Two 5 1/4" bare drives - Several PET motherboards and video power supplies (I'm giving these away if u-pick-up!) - Altos terminal (this goes with the Altos if someone picks up) - IBM 5103 printer (companion printer to the 5100 PC) - 4 slightly broken Tandy 200 portables (I'm giving these away if u-pick-up!) - Two unidentified front panels (look for mail on these) - A CardBoard expansion bus (for the KIM, I think) - PET dealer service manual stuffed with schematics, updates and diagnostic program cassette tapes - PET 80-column video/graphics board upgrade w/docs and box Kai

28 years, 9 months

2
1
0 0

Digilog 1500

by IVIE＠cc.usu.edu

>Roger Ivie wrote: >> >> No promises, but I _may_ have a CP/M boot disk for the thing and (depending >> on how recently my cow-orkers have cleaned their offices) I may be able to >> find a bit of technical info. >> > >Wow, that would be great! It would also be good to get enough >information to add it to the "Big List" that Bill maintains. In any >case, thanks for the info! OK, here's what I have found so far: - Technical manual for "Microterm II" (also labelled "Series 2000") - Technical manual for "Series 1000" - A few other manuals, including a BASIC language manual and something to do with 2780 communications. Both technical manuals contain schematics. I've not yet compared the schematics to see what the differences between "Series 1000" and "Series 2000" are. I've not yet come across boot disks, but I've been informed that we still have one of the machines in our storage shed, so I expect to find one when I get _really_ serious about poking around. Roger Ivie ivie(a)cc.usu.edu

28 years, 9 months

3
2
0 0

EBCDIC

by rcini＠msn.com

Phil: I also have a "Datamasher", which did work at one point. Now, I can't seem to get it to boot from the Diagnostic Diskette. I don't know if the diskette is bad, or if the floppy is bad. I don't know if it is possible, but would you be willing to make a copy of a known-bootable disk and send it to me?? I'll cover the cost of postage. I'd also like to get some sort of operations manuals, but that is probobly not in the cards at this point. Anyway, when I first got the 23 (also known as the 5322; from a school in Gerogia), I made contact with John Kelley, whose wife worked on the Datamaster project. Below is a copy of the message thread. I thought that you might be interested... ================= #: 517922 S0/General [H] 07-Dec-94 18:27:07 Sb: #517503-#IBM 5322 Datamstr? Fm: Richard Cini 70153,3367 To: John Kelley 73467,450 (X) John: I do have several questions: 1: An historical Perspective -- What was IBM's original purpose for that machine?? I read somewhere that the Datamaster was supposed to be IBM's first 'personal computer' (which flopped after a short time, and was replaced with the IBM PC). If that's true, how long did IBM make the 5322? The PC was introduced in 8/81, but my 5322 has manufacturing date tags in late-1982. What was it like working on a project like that? I've always been fascinated by the thoughts of people who basically created a multi-billion-dollar industry, the market climate, as well as comparing the capabilities of those machines to today's. In fact, I collect old, historically-significant computers. 2: Was there any real software available for that machine, or was it around for too short of a time to garner any significant market support? 3: What was its specifications? I didn't take the whole thing apart yet, I just cleaned it up and turned it on to see if it worked. (Yes, it works!) 4: Do you have any of its documentation original; maybe a system manual or a system diskette? How about schematics or a service manual? 5: Anything else that you may find useful. Thanks so much for your (and your wife's) help! Regards... Rich There are 2 Replies. #: 518568 S0/General [H] 09-Dec-94 08:51:43 Sb: #517922-IBM 5322 Datamstr? Fm: John Kelley 73467,450 To: Richard Cini 70153,3367 (X) Richard, I will convey your questions to the expert and get back to you. I can tell you this regarding creating a multi-billion-dollar industry: the folks doing the development work were too busy with heavy overtime in the trenches to have much opportunity for "big picture" thinking. IBM had a very structured software development process. Back to you later, - John K. #: 519705 S0/General [H] 12-Dec-94 08:52:04 Sb: #517922-IBM 5322 Datamstr? Fm: John L. Kelley 73467,450 To: Richard Cini 70153,3367 (X) Rich, Things were busy this weekend but I did get some info for you. The System 23 (Datamaster) was indeed the first move towards a PC. It was the first IBM product to use a non-IBM processor, namely the Intel 8085. Interestingly, this fact is what made the product revolutionary within IBM, and a threat to some. Apparently there was much conflict internally over the non-Blue processor. Some say that the only reason the product saw the light of day was that Frank Cary (then chairman of IBM) had gotten convinced by the backers of the system. Otherwise it would have died of attacks from the entrenched interests. It was actually IBM's first attempt at a PC. IBM provided business software: billing, accounts payable and receivable, general ledger, inventory, report-writer, etc. IBM provided telephone support through an Atlanta location to users of this software. The "real" PC came along right on its heels and so it never saw large volume, but thousands of users called the support lines, so it was in use. There may have been third party software as well. Some of the managers and developers who worked on this product also worked on the development of the real PC. The 23 apparently started shipping in 1980, and was still being sold when the IBM PC emerged. Big brother was then eclipsed by little brother. We don't seem to have much documentation or info on specs but something may turn up. I'll have to get back to you on that. To me, the interesting thing is that this "PC version 0.5" was almost killed by internal interests, just as the real PC was almost killed. Good luck with your collection! - John K. ======================= ++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Date: Mon, 23 Jun 97 11:23:18 BST From: Philip.Belben(a)powertech.co.uk To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu Subject: EBCDIC Message-ID: <9705238670.AA867090681(a)compsci.powertech.co.uk> Last week - while I was on holiday on the Noprfolk Broads - someone (I forget who) asked if there had ever been a microcomputer that used EBCDIC. Anyone else out there have one of these? Know any more about it? {etc.} Philip.

28 years, 9 months

1
0
0 0

C64 CP/M carts

by chemif＠mbox.queen.it

At 13:54 23/06/97 -0800, you wrote: >> On another note, has anyone ever seen (or have) a Basis-xxx? I know it >> has a number in the name, but I can't remember it. It was an Apple ][ >> clone that also ran CP/M I believe? Something like that. I'm sure >> someone knows about it. I only knew one guy who ever had one, but I never >> saw it. It was a friend in high school back in 1989. > >I believe these were designed/built in Europe, probably Germany. In Italy there was Lemon computer building Apple-clones. Has anyone heard about them?

28 years, 9 months

1
0
0 0

Basis 108 (was Re: C64 CP/M carts)

by fmc＠reanimators.org

Sam Ismail <dastar(a)crl.com> writes: > On another note, has anyone ever seen (or have) a Basis-xxx? I know it > has a number in the name, but I can't remember it. It was an Apple ][ > clone that also ran CP/M I believe? Something like that. I'm sure > someone knows about it. I only knew one guy who ever had one, but I never > saw it. It was a friend in high school back in 1989. Yep, a Basis 108. They are something like the Apple ][+ with integrated language card, Microsoft Softcard and some sort of 80-column display on the motherboard, all housed in a big brown cast metal case with a detachable keyboard. Um...there are also integrated serial and parallel I/O, but I think there was something not-quite-compatible about the way they were decoded so one or the other or maybe both did not appear to be at the canonical slot addresses. They were made in Germany and imported into the US. I can't remember all the details, but I think Apple tried to restrict their import for a while (maybe due to ROM copyright issues?) and the distributor changed hands and/or locations a couple of times. For a while it was in Scotts Valley, CA, then I think went to somewhere in New England. Maybe I have it backwards. I bought one used (via the net) for ~$500 ca. 1991 because I missed my Apple ][+ (had left it with Mom, who just did not get the hang of Wordstar under CP/M and now has a Mac Plus, and yes I got my ][+ back). And the posted ad was for a dream system: Basis 108, PCPI Applicard, Vista 8" disk controller, Videx Ultraterm with a good monitor that could really show the lotsa-text you could get with one of those. All the stuff I had had in my ][+ and, more importantly, *all the stuff I had lusted after*. The only problems were due to some carelessness in packing, and the system was shipped from Connecticut to California. Mistakes submitted for your educational experience: The floppy drives are mounted by way of having brackets screwed to them which are then screwed to the base. The end result is that for each of two floppy drives there are these two brackets holding a floppy drive some distance above the base. Well, the shipper left them in, and UPS threw the package around enough that the brackets deformed and broke loose from the base. So the floppy drives with brackets could rattle around inside. (To be fair, I'm not sure I'd have caught this either, but I certainly won't ship things where two solid objects are connected quite like that -- not without dismantling them first.) He had also left the peripheral cards installed. Apple ][ peripheral cards just sit in their slots, there are no card guides or screws or anything like that. Well, guess what the floppy drives whacked into as they rattled around, not that I really think they would have stayed in place anyway. The boards weren't broken, but some of the ICs had been popped out and mashed. Between loose bits and spares that came with the system and other bits I had around I was able to get it working again, but still haven't replaced the floppy-drive brackets to my satisfaction. So it has a couple of gaping holes up front with half-height floppies showing where there should be full-height units. ... I don't have room to set the system up at present, so it is in storage. Except for its manuals, some of which are on loan to a friend of mine over the hill in Santa Cruz (who had one when he lived in Buffalo, NY and picked up another one at Weird Stuff a few years ago). If y'all have particular questions about this send e-mail and I will ask for them back and try to find the other bits in storage. It is a fairly thorough set of documentation, including user group newsletters, and would probably shed a little light on things I can't remember about it and Basis and the moves in distributorship and so forth. One other thing I remember about this system is that the previous owner had bought a set of Apple ROMs, then copied them *and* the Basis ROMs into 2732?s with a switch on the back to select one bank or the other. So he could boot with Basis or Apple personalities depending on what he needed to be compatible with. There were some things that depended on each, but I can't remember specifics. I remember seeing slicks somewhere in there for another Basis system that had two half-height 8" floppy drives in a similar case (different cutout up front for the floppies), and have the impression that that was a pure CP/M machine. Never saw one up close, though. Anyone know anything about that? -Frank McConnell

28 years, 9 months

3
2
0 0

Why?

by jscarter＠worldnet.att.net

At 06:43 PM 6/21/97 +0000, you wrote: >Allison J Parent wrote: > >> There is the matter of customs which many americans have little experience >> with. >I accept that....but you are such a big country. Isn't it about time you >start looking outside and try to understand other cultures? (no offence >meant) >-- >================================================================ >Enrico Tedeschi, 54, Easthill Drive, BRIGHTON BN41 2FD, U.K. >tel/fax +(0)1273 701650 (24 hours) or 0850 104725 mobile >website <http://www.ndirect.co.uk/~e.tedeschi> >================================================================ >visit Brighton: <http://www.brighton.co.uk/tourist/welcome.htm> How quaint. A culture TROLL in a classic computer mailing list. Perhaps you were looking for alt.usa-sucks. At least the subject header now fits. James jscarter(a)worldnet.att.net

28 years, 9 months

15
20
0 0

IBM PCjr

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

ive also got a pcjr, with a 128k module and a printer adaptor. isnt this thing supposed to run whatever cartridge you plug in? i noticed it resets when you insert one. my pcjr only boots to basic because ive been too lazy to make a dos 3.3 boot disk. i also have a joystick and serial/video/rf mod./300b modem in all their original boxes too along with a tech ref and basic guide. i have a cable/dongle for it that will let you plug in a standard cga monitor into the back. if anyone's interested, i could post the pinouts of the dongle so you can use cga. the last hamfest i went to have pcjr stuff for $1 a peice! that's where i got my missing psu from. david

28 years, 9 months

7
8
0 0

C=1570 Drive (was Re:C64 CP/M carts)

by steve＠kennard.keme.co.uk

At 21:44 20/06/97 +0100, we wrote: >> >>>Besides, I was talking about CP/M for the Commodore 1541 drive. That's a >>>multi-speed drive that uses GCR encoding, not MFM. Try writing THAT with >>>22DISK on your PC-clone. >>>I used to know that only C=1570 and C=1571 were capable to read and write >>CP/M disks in a proper way. (GCR+MFM) >>By the way anyone else apart me owning a C=1570 here? >> >>Ciao >> >>i own a 1570, its a american one with a step down transformer, Its >connected to my PC, and guess what, it writes CPM!!! >Steve >Emulator BBS >01284 760851 >Keeping 8-Bit ALIVE Hi Steve, Yours was the only one response I get (since now) from C=1570 owners Mine was made in Germany (did you buy it in the U.S.?) Ciao Emulator BBS 11,000 Emulator Related Files 01284 760851 Keeping 8-Bit ALIVE

28 years, 9 months

1
0
0 0

Help identify these front panels

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

I just got a couple of unidentified front panels. If anyone can shed some light on what computers these come from, please let me know! Front Panel #1: - No bezel - Has flat switches exactly like the Imsai except they're all black - In the upper right there's a 16-key hexadecimal keypad; black keys with white lettering. - Two rows of switches; 7 in the upper left, and a row of 18 below. - There are numerous LEDs arranged mostly in banks of 4 with 7545 TTL drivers. - The LEDs are on a riser card about 1/2" off the main front panel card. The main card is dark gray and the LED card is green. - Three 40-pin ribbon cable connectors on the bottom edge. Front Panel #2: - Very simple design with metal bezel. Looks like it's from a mini. - 20 cup-shaped plastic paddle switches, some navy blue, some sky blue in color. - Switches are labeled "CLR, STP, MRD, MWR, ADR, EXE" and numbers 2 through 15. - Three lights in the upper left are labeled "POWER, WAIT, CARRY, ENABLE" - There's a key lock in the lower right - A bundle of cables trail from the panel terminating in two 46-pin connectors and a few power leads. - An ink stamp on the PCB reads "5172" - 5/1/72 perhaps? thanks all! By the way, if someone needs one of these, let me know! Kai

28 years, 9 months

2
1
0 0

apple II - SCORE!

by thedm＠sunflower.com

Once they are broke, they are broke, trust me on this, You can remove the keycaps, but the switch itself is sealed in one piece. ---------- > From: Sam Ismail <dastar(a)crl.com> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Re: apple II - SCORE! > Date: Tuesday, June 24, 1997 12:40 PM > > On Tue, 24 Jun 1997 jpero(a)mail.cgo.wave.ca wrote: > > > Nip! Sad story about key problem... > > > > Can't you take that switch apart and clean it with alcohol? I had to > > do that on my "speedy". Generic keyboard but used good quality gold > > contacts switch in it only minor cleaning there then it worked 100% > > The one key tab needed pounding to get anything but now I just > > merely poke it. :) Total time of repair: 15 to 20 mins. > > I don't think you can do that with apple keys. Once they're broke > they're broke. I could be wrong about this. I've just never tried it. > At the time, I don't think I would've had the dexterity necessary to fix > the key. At the very least I didn't have the brain capacity to think > about it. > > > Sam > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- > Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass

28 years, 9 months

1
0
0 0

Why?

by thedm＠sunflower.com

Im gonna take a risk here, but do any of these folks collect computers, maybe the recent conversations havn't driven them nuts and they can give us some information about old computers rather than start some type of political hate crime debate. GROW UP EVERYONE. ---------- > From: Uncle Roger <sinasohn(a)crl.com> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Re: Why? > Date: Monday, June 23, 1997 8:09 PM > > At 06:43 PM 6/21/97 +0000, you wrote: > >I accept that....but you are such a big country. Isn't it about time you > >start looking outside and try to understand other cultures? (no offence > > But we are a country of other cultures. My father came over from Germany as > a boy. My mother was of english descent (going back to Ann Boleyn and > Katherine(?) Howard, two of Henry VIII's wives). My sister is an honorary > Nigerian. My girlfriend is Russian, French Canadian, and who knows what > else. Her sister-in-law is a philippina. Some of my best friends include > jamaicans, scotsman, irish, french, german, native american, japanese, > chinese, aussies, South African, eritrean, and so on. > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- > > Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad > sinasohn(a)crl.com that none but madmen know." > Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates > San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 9 months

1
0
0 0

IBM PCjr (some parts info you y'all)

by marcw＠lightside.com

Something is odd here. There was some 25 PCjr messages in my box. Somehow the discussion didn't get to me 'til it was underway. I did go through them but I don't know anything. :) Anyway, assuming PC Enterprises still carries this stuff, you might want to check with them. The catalogue also doubles as an information source since they give a few paragraphs on various tech stuff. For instance what happens when your system board malfunctions, etc. Here's some stuff from their PCjr catalogue that may be of interest. There's a lot so this is just a few. PCjr System Board #78739 $98 Power Supply Transformer (brick) #78712 $44 PCjr Power Supply Card (original) #78707 $49.95 PCjr Power Supply Card (heavy duty) #78729 $69.95 64K Memory & Display Expansion #78709 $50 Cartridge BASIC #78722 $119 Configuration Plus Cartridge #18026 $29.95 Allows for using BASIC/BASICA if you don't have Cartridge BASIC Compatibility Cartridge #18032 $39.95 Allows for running "modern" DOS apps that normally have problems with the PCjr BIOS Combo Cartridge V3.0 #18034 $89.95 Combination of four different cartridges (available separatly): Compatibility, Quicksilver (memory speedup), Keyboard Buffer, jrVideo (video speedup). jrExcellerator Speed-up Board #14802 $99 Megaboard Sidecard #14031 $199 Adds 1MB to anything else you already have. Load High Sidecar #97509 $35 Brings 640K system to 736K There's a lot more (drives, video, etc.). Also info and memory expansion for Rapport, Racore, and Quadram users. This catalogue is from 1995 and no doubt they don't have everything anymore (if their lack of Tandy parts is any indication). PC Enterprises is the reason I have EMS and SCSI on my Tandy 1000 HX but most of the stuff they used to have is no more. 1-800-922-7257 or 908-280-0025. Getting help is also a problem. Marc -- >> ANIME SENSHI << Marc D. Williams marcw(a)lightside.com marc.williams(a)mb.fidonet.org IRC Nick: Senshi Channel: #dos #IrcHelp http://www.agate.net/~tvdog/internet.html -- DOS Internet Tools

28 years, 9 months

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CLASSICCMP digest 93

by ghjorth＠sn.no

Will someone please remove me from this list. Thank you. -- +------------------------------------+ ! Thomas Jarvis Bigshaker on IRC ! ! ghjorth(a)sn.no Y.C.D.B.S.O.Y.A. ! +------------------------------------+ It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.

28 years, 9 months

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Perceptions

by kyrrin＠wizards.net

At 00:02 22-06-97 PDT, you wrote: <snip> >Well, to get more specific, I have the (perhaps wrong) feeling that: > >a) You are against collectors who collect for the historical importance >onyl and are not really worried if the item works or not (as long as all >the parts are in there and the thing can be made to work if and when >required). I have been ridiculized when I suggested this one way to go >about collecting. ??? What on God's green Earth would make you think that? I collect a few bits and pieces mainly for historical value (I've got an original Seagate ST212 in one of my Micro-PDP11's that I don't ever plan to use; just exhibit), and I've never been ridiculed. Even if you have been jeered at, what of it? People have taken plenty of pokes at me for my open criticism of Bill Gates, Microsoft, Intel, et al, and my collecting of DEC stuff that's at least ten years old. My take on this? Let 'em jeer. I see them as narrow-minded victims of the Wintel monopoly's marketing sharks, and I am confident in the fact that I'll likely forget more about computer hardware than such people will ever learn. >b) You are against collectors who want ot take out bits and pieces from >the systems in order to show them separately (but retaining and perhaps >even ehibiting the "crippled" item). I have been refused help in thsi >respect when it became apparent I was going to do this. I don't see an issue with this. What I do have a problem with is people who just blindly throw 'bits and pieces' or entire machines on the scrap heap just because they think they're "obsolete" (an overused word if ever there was one!) >c) You are against helping "foreigners" (and therefore "different") >collectors to export "your" stuff perhaps in the wrong perception that >it will diminish the heritage of the country (yours). I have striken a ?!? Good Lord, man, who's been beating you up? I would WELCOME aiding anyone, in any country, that wanted to restore or collect some piece of hardware that I'm familiar with and needed help to get it going (I obviously can't be of much help with stuff I don't know anything about). Tell you what... if you want proof of this, at least from me, I'd be happy to offer any aid I can with the equipment that I'm familiar with. That includes DEC stuff, from the PDP11/03 on up through the MicroPDP's and VAXen. There are others on here who, I'm sure, would be willing to help you in their particular areas of expertise. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin(a)wizards.net) http://www.wizards.net/technoid "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."

28 years, 9 months

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Today's Scrounging Run

by jrice＠texoma.net

Today's scrounging haul: TI99/4 Impact Printer, clean, working, new ribbon $ 1.00 Mac 20mb SCSI external hard drive $20.00 200 360k floppys, new in boxes of 10 $ 3.00 Mac ADB coil cord $ 1.00 Tandy CoCo/1000 delux joystick NIB $ 1.00 Passed up on a C64 with PSU $ 3.00, Amiga A500 NIB $ 25.00, C-128 $1.00 (looked a little well used), Apple 2e $ 5.00 with Disk II.

28 years, 9 months

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Computer simulation of an organ (fwd)

by transit＠primenet.com

This is a message I sent to the Electronic Organ list today. They were discussing simulating a pipe organ with a computer. I looked at the Alphasyntauri in my collection, and thought "Been there, done that . . ." ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 08:40:21 -0700 (PDT) From: "Charles P. Hobbs" <transit(a)primenet.com> Cc: EORG-L(a)CFRVM.CFR.USF.EDU Subject: Computer simulation of an organ Anyone here heard of the AlphaSyntauri? This was an organ keyboard, connected to an Apple II computer. The Apple was equipped with sixteen 8-bit DACs (digital-analog converters). The DACs converted digital waveforms (sequences of numbers in the Apple's RAM) to analog, audio signals. The AlphaSyntauri could play up to eight notes simultaneously (2 DACs were normally assigned to each note). Tonalities could be easily selected via software. There were even Fourier-analysis tools allowing the users to make and manipulate their own waveforms. This instrument was popular in the early 80's, but died out before the age of MIDI. By that time, its output (8 bit DACs, relatively low sampling rate) had made the instrument obsolete for most serious musicians (I have one as a collector's item). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Charles P. Hobbs __ __ ____ ___ ___ ____ transit(a)primenet.com /__)/__) / / / / /_ /\ / /_ / / / \ / / / / /__ / \/ /___ / -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

28 years, 9 months

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IBM PCjr

by thedm＠sunflower.com

Picked up one of these the other day, no power supply, anyone know what this monster needs for the 3 pin powersupply connection? {pinouts}

28 years, 9 months

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pieces of metal and plastic

by allisonp＠world.std.com

> So I am asking *you*, lover of the hardware to reconsider your thoughts > and ask yourself what would your collection mean without all of the > above. I, for one, will be glad to learn that you had second toughts > about this. In either cases it could be useful to read here your > motivations. Interesting comment.

28 years, 9 months

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AIM65 (fwd)

by dastar＠crl.com

More information on the AIMs. I am currently working on a bulk deal with Mike for $20 a piece. While these are truly AIMs, they are not "stock" AIMs. They have been altered (really improved). While I think the improvements are very nice, I would've preferred a stock AIM. However, these definitely sound like nice units. Anyway, here's the scoop. Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 15:45:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Mikeooo1(a)aol.com To: dastar(a)crl.com Subject: Re: AIM65 Gentlemen, In response to all the interest so many of you have shown in my Aim 65 collection let me say that they are all in new working condition.The beauty about the Aim 65 is that it was a single board computer which was self contained in that it had its display,printer,and memory all mounted on its board so that peripheral attachments weren't necessary.Yes,it comes with a keyboard and power supply also.I developed a plastic enclosure and metal base and ROM board for the system so the keyboard and power supply could be housed with the Aim in a compact unit and programs could be burned onto eproms which would seat in the ROM board rather than rely on tape storage which involves a recorder hookup and would be quite slow. I didn't like the enclosure or the unwieldy power supply that Rockwell created for the Aim so I had my own plastic enclosure injection molded by a plastics manufacturer. I had a metal base manufactured for the unit so it could be professionally represented as an industrial computer rather than just the "hobbyist's computer" Rockwell originally designed it for.I also have production equipment I developed for creating programs downloading them directly from the Aim into the RAM buffer of eprom burning devices and ultimately housing the programmed eproms in the ROM board I developed which sat on the bottom of the case housing.I have built a successful company around the Aim which is truly an amazing computer and has withstood the test of time as many people are still using it today.As for its value,the unit sold for approx.$450 (computerboard and keyboard) and its part are still in demand today.The display chips alone cost $30 apiece and there are 5 on each display while the print head alone sells for $105,the entire printer about $180.

28 years, 9 months

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Banning Culture (was: Re: Why?)

by sinasohn＠crl.com

At 07:59 PM 6/21/97 +0000, you wrote: >Is "culture" banned from this site then? (We are getting there in the >end....it's a CULTURE clash, is it?) Yes! No more culture! Only trashy romance novels, Beverly Hills 90210/Melrose Place, and the Bee-Gees should be discussed here! And that's Culture *Club*! (Seequa, seequa, seequa, seequa, seequa, seequa chameleooooon...) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn(a)crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 9 months

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Larry's List

by foxnhare＠goldrush.com

Well after getting my Educator 64 working (yipee!) and realizing I have alot of the Commodores I kinda wanted to collect from years back I decided to write out a quick list (a>this is from memory so there probably is stuff missing and b>it in no way shows how many repeats of items I have (like 3 VIC-20s, umpteen datasettes, etc.) c>I have NO interested in selling any of it.) Hope you find it interesting. (=)) Larry's Commodore Collection: Calculators: Minuteman 6 Minuteman 6x Custom Greenline Rechargable (greenline?) Model 784D PET Series Original PET with original ROMs and 32k ExpandaPET board PET 2001 Series w/Upgrade ROMs 32k PET 2001 Series w/4.0 ROMS & MTU VM Graphics Board CBM 2001 Series 32k PET 4000 Series w/32k CBM 8032 SuperPET Model SP9000 PET/IEEE-488 Peripherals/Firmware RAM/ROM EPROM emulator Centronics Printer Interface 4040 Dual Disk Drive 2031LP Single Disk Drive 8023 Wide Carriage Dot-Matrix Printer Original 'modified' Sanyo cassete deck C2N Datasette in black case C2N Datasette in cream case w/counter Toolkit ROMs (upgrade and 4.0 versions) VIC-20 Series VIC-20 (DIN power Supply) VIC-20 Peripherals/Firmware Commodore Joystick Commodore Paddle Controllers Commodore C2N/1530 low-profile datasettes Commodore VIC-1541 Single Disk Drive Cardco Cartridge expansion unit Koala Pad MSD 24k RAM cartridge Commodore 8k RAM cartridge Commodore 3k+SuperExpander Cartridge HES HESMON utility cartridge Omega Race Tooth Invaders Defender Choplifter Radar Ratrace Donkey Kong Cosmic Cruncher C64/B-128 Series Commodore 64 (8-Pin Video) Commodore 64 w/stereo SID modification Commodore SX-64 portable Commodore P-500 Educator 64 (Commodore 64 in PET/CBM 4000/8000 style case) 64/B-128 Series Peripherals/Firmware Commodore 1702 Color Monitor Commodore 1541 Disk Drive Star Micronis NX1000C Dot Matrix Printer Citizen iDP560CD 2 3/4" wide Dot Matrix Printer Kinney Video Digitizer Alien Group Alien Voicebox Voice Synthesiser Currah Technologies Voicemaster 64 Wico Trackball controller Total Telecommunications 300 Baud Modem Inkwell Tech. Lightpen Lemans Jumpman Jr. SuperGraphics Jr. HESMon 64 Gridrunner Astroblitz Commodore 264 series: Commodore 16 Commodore Plus/4 Commodore Plus/4 w/standard 64 PS connector 264 Peripherals/Firmware Atari style joystick adapter Datasette plug adapter +4/16 joystick Jack Attack Plus Calc Plus Script Commodore 128/128D series Commodore 64C Commodore 128 Commodore 128D (missing keyboard) Commodore 128 Series Peripherals Commodore 1670 1200 Baud Modem Commodore Modem 300 - 300 Baud Modem Commodore 1902 Color Monitor Commodore 1541C Disk Drive Commodore 1541-II Disk Drive Commodore 1571 Disk Drive Commodore 1581 3.5" Micro Floppy Disk Drive Commodore 1764 RAM Expansion Unit Commodore 1351 Mouse CMD RAMLink Ram Expansion Unit CMD HD series Hard Drive Unit Aprotek 2400 Baud Modem SuperSnapshot 5 Utility Cartridge Lotsa Joysticks... ;) Still Looking for: 8050 Dual Disk Drive 8250 Dual Disk Drive SFD-1001 Single Floppy Drive 8010 Modem (acoustic coupler) 4010 Voice Response Unit (speech synthesiser) CBM 9060/9090 Hard Disk Unit B-128/B-256 Series Computer Computereyes for Commodore 64 Commodore comaptible EPROM programmer Commodore 65 Commodore LCD (I wish!) Serial<->IEEE-488 interfaces -- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Visit our web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare Call our BBS (Silicon Realms BBS 300-2400 baud) at: (209) 754-1363 -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-

28 years, 9 months

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EBCDIC

by Philip.Belben＠powertech.co.uk

Last week - while I was on holiday on the Noprfolk Broads - someone (I forget who) asked if there had ever been a microcomputer that used EBCDIC. I have an IBM System/23 (aka Datamaster) at home. It has system board, mono monitor, twin 8-inch floppies and PC-style keyboard in one box, and a printer hung off the back. It has an 8085 processor, 64k RAM and 112K ROM. The expansion slots are suspiciously IBM PC like... This box programs in BASIC (the 112k of ROM contains almost a complete mainframe basic with matrix ops, etc.) and uses EBCDIC as its character set. It has interesting features such as a file system with 8.8 character filenames (as opposed to the CPM and later 8.3 that everyone seems to use nowadays :-( ). If the printer is switched off or disconnected, it fails power on diagnostics! As I recall, I was given it by a friend at college in ?1988. He informed me that his stepfather paid L11000 (i.e. UK pounds) for it in ?1980. I once tried to get the BASIC manual out of IBM technical publications. It was out of print, so they persuaded me to shell out L30 (about $40 or $50?) for the mainframe BASIC manual. Not a good buy!!! Anyone else out there have one of these? Know any more about it? Philip. <><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Philip Belben <><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Das Feuer brennt, das Feuer nennt die Luft sein Schwesterelement - und frisst sie doch (samt dem Ozon)! Das ist die Liebe, lieber Sohn. Poem by Christian Morgenstern - Message by Philip.Belben(a)powertech.co.uk

28 years, 9 months

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CLASSICCMP digest 92

by foxnhare＠goldrush.com

Subject: Re: Classsic Computing Newsgroup revisited Message-ID: <199706222028.4491(a)tw500.eng.cam.ac.uk> >> I'm against new newsgroups being created, especially when the topics >> are quite technical and already well-handled by existing newsgroups. >> For example, people wanting Apple II help can go to comp.sys.apple2, >> users of various CP/M systems hang around comp.os.cpm, PDP-11 >> users have vmsnet.pdp-11, etc. >Agreed. Off-hand I can't think of a single classic computer which is not >covered by at least one existing newsgroup. If you don't know which group >to post to, you'll find that most of them are quite friendly to >just-off-topic questions. If you find an obscure Z80 machine that didn't >ever run CP/M, I'm quite sure that a post to comp.os.cpm would get either >some help or a pointer to the appropriate newsgroup. I'd be _very_ >supprised if it got a flame. Let's get this straight: A) alt.technology.obsolete does not need to be created, it has been on the net for at least as long as I have (6+ months) B) The newsgroup is currently dead (except for the occasional spamming post.) C) having specific newsgroups is ok, but what if you want the open discussion of computers like we have here? I kinda get irked seeing Spectrum posts in comp.sys.cbm. But wouldn't mind on a mixed group, because I am in that mode when I am reading it. (sound logical?) So, again, the newsgroup (alt.technology.obsolete) exists now and has been in existence for quite a while and I suggest we put this good opportunity (and name) to use. Larry Anderson -- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Visit our web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare Call our BBS (Silicon Realms BBS 300-2400 baud) at: (209) 754-1363 -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-

28 years, 9 months

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Computer Ind. Books

by foxnhare＠goldrush.com

>From: "e.tedeschi" <e.tedeschi(a)ndirect.co.uk> >Subject: bibliography >What do you think of this bibliography? Have I missed any important book >on the subject? Please help me in making this a useful refence for >everybody to use, if you care. Thank you There was also one by COMPUTE! Books, the (Small?) Computer Wars I think the author's name is Michael Tomzyk. I have yet to find it (or many that you mentioned) Though I found Steven Levy's Hackers very entertaining! One interesting book my wife came across in a thrift store is: "The Compleat Computer" a compilation edited by Dennie Van Tassel. It was printed in 1976 and has alot of press clippings, cartoons, articles and anecdotes of the then blossoming microcomputer age. One nice bit is the transcript of the session between Eliza (the psychiatrist program) and Parry (the paranoid program). Larry Anderson -- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Visit our web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/ Call our BBS (Silicon Realms BBS 300-2400 baud) at: (209) 754-1363 -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-

28 years, 9 months

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Collecting old microprocessors (as opposed to Computers)

by bluesky6＠ix.netcom.com

Does any one here collect old microprocessors like 4004, 4040, 8008, 8080 etc? The oldest CPU type I have is an NEC 8080A. Still trying to figure out how to make use of it. The legs are pretty corroded (used to live in humid climates). I've a Z8001 too, paid more than $100 for it but never used. Maybe I'll find an Olivetti M20 one of these days... There's a UK company that used to advertise in the UK version of the Elektor 4-5 years ago. They advertised the TI9900, NS32032 and other odd CPUs. Ben

28 years, 9 months

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IBM PCjr

by IVIE＠cc.usu.edu

> -spc (Although with proper programming, the CGA could support 160x100 > 16 colors (or was it 160x200?)) 160x100. You program the 6845 to display two scanlines per character then use the half-on/half-off blocks to control the pixels. Roger Ivie ivie(a)cc.usu.edu

28 years, 9 months

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Collecting old microprocessors (as opposed to Computers)

by IVIE＠cc.usu.edu

> The reason I liked the 7000 so much was the display. It used a - I want > to say NEC 7202 display chip - might be wrong tho. It allowed vector > graphics and text to share the same screen. You could tell it how much > text and then anything above that was graphics. It took basically plotting > commands to do the graphics. Never did understand why that didn't catch > on! That would be the NEC 7220. It was also used in the DEC Rainbow graphics option; I've not seen a DECmate II graphices option, but I suspect it was used there as well. A friend of mine built a video card for an Apple ][ using the 7220. We could do 1024 x 780, IIRC. He was experimenting with it and a touch screen device (a flat glas plate to go over the monitor with transducers along two edges; it put a high-frequency vibration on the glass then listened for echoes) as a programmable user interface. We were using Microsoft F80 on the Softcard connected to 8" DSDD diskettes. When does it start being an Apple ][ and start being a CP/M machine? Oh yeah; we used a plotting library from a company called Tesseract. Anyone else used it? Roger Ivie ivie(a)cc.usu.edu

28 years, 9 months

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H8 Computer

by manney＠nwohio.com

> >What is a Heath H8 worth? I generally see H89's go for $25 US at hamfests. *I* wouldn't tie up $100 unless it was lovely and I really wanted one. Of course...it's worth what you want to pay for it, as Jim says

28 years, 9 months

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PLEASE READ - suggestions to reduce list traffic

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

I'd like to suggest that we all keep in mind the following tenets to help reduce the amount of superfluous traffic on this discussion list: - If your reply is to one individual, please send directly to them (you'll have to override your email program's default Reply address). - Please direct responses to solicitations such as group purchases, etc. directly to the solicitor only. thanks! Kai

28 years, 9 months

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Jr. Dragons?

by jscarter＠worldnet.att.net

It's been years since I fiddled with a PCjr. It has a self test, to activate press Control-Alternate-Insert. Can't remember the specifics of the self test though. I don't know if Lotus for the jr required a disk, but I have been told it came on two separate cartridges. At 02:35 PM 6/23/97 +0000, you wrote: >As such, right now I have 1 complete Jr with floppy drive, sidecar, and >128K mem expansion (I believe... hafta look at the chips & calculate the >storage) with an extra internal floppy drive, an extra motherboard, an >extra keyboard (neither are chicklet, and one has a few stuck keys) I think >there was a Lotus 123 cartridge with it (but I heard rumors that it needed >a disk as well?) and a basic cartridge. There may be more stuff, but I >haven't looked at it since the move... > >Are you interested in it? > >HTH, >Roger "Merch" Merchberger James jscarter(a)worldnet.att.net

28 years, 9 months

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Need source for...

by kyrrin＠wizards.net

In the process of getting ready to upgrade my RQD11 QBus/SCSI adapter to near-current level, I discovered that I need a source for a hard-to-get PROM. Specifically, one of two parts should do it. Signetics 82HS189 AMD AM27S281A I've already checked with the manufacturers and a couple of local distributors. Yes, I'll be looking for these on my upcoming scrounging trip, but it would be a Really Cool Thing if someone could point me at a source for them. Thanks in advance. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin(a)wizards.net) http://www.wizards.net/technoid "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."

28 years, 9 months

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My current For Trade/Wanted List

by manney＠nwohio.com

I have an SX-64. don't lnow if it works, without KB cord (has KB, though.) Manney

28 years, 9 months

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Cocos

by bwit＠pobox.com

Yes, that's correct. Over in the UK you had the Dragon, a neat little machine. Regards, Bob ---------- From: e.tedeschi[SMTP:e.tedeschi@ndirect.co.uk] Sent: Sunday, June 22, 1997 3:22 AM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Cocos Just to help me understand better...when you refer to Cocos, do you refer to the Tandy TRS-80 COlour COmputers? Thanks enrico -- ================================================================ Enrico Tedeschi, 54, Easthill Drive, BRIGHTON BN41 2FD, U.K. tel/fax +(0)1273 701650 (24 hours) or 0850 104725 mobile website <http://www.ndirect.co.uk/~e.tedeschi> ================================================================ visit Brighton: <http://www.brighton.co.uk/tourist/welcome.htm>

28 years, 9 months

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My current For Trade/Wanted List

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

-------------------- Wanted: -------------------- Apple I * Altair 680 * Altair 8800a ("a" only) * Altair disk system * Compucolor II or 8051 Apple Lisa Exidy Sorcerer IBM 5100 KIM-1 RCA COSMAC (ELF/VIP) Commodore PET dual floppy system model 2040 Commodore SX-64 Portable (only if cheap or local) TRS-80 Model III (only if cheap or local) * Will trade Altair 8800b up/down/across for Apple I, or Altair equipment. Will also make substantial cash offers for these items and will reward leads. -------------------- For Trade: -------------------- North Star Horizon (wood case model) Apple ///+ Mattel Aquarius C64 in original color display box Kaypro II (wonky keyboard; FREE if you pick up, Seattle area) (Must sell/trade! Need space! Especially good deals available for LOCALS with reasonably interesting trades and/or cash offers, since that saves me so much time and effort with shipping!) Kai

28 years, 9 months

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Friend Has Altos and Sanyo For Sale

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

A friend of mine has the following systems available for sale (he's not a collector). Neither of us could really come up with a price, since these systems are a little out of my line. The Sanyo is a Z80 (not to be confused with the later MBC-550 which was an early 8088 MS-DOS clone). Both are in full operating condition. Altos 586 - 8086/512K - Xenix 3.0b - With 2 terminals (supports 8-9 users) - Hard drive - Floppy - Xenix Multiplan, etc. Sanyo MBC-1000 - Z80A - Built-in monitor - Single floppy - External 10MB HD - Keyboard - CP/M, WordStar, CalcStar, etc. email thadh(a)microsoft.com with offers (local preferred due to the size of this stuff)

28 years, 9 months

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Apple ]['s and C=64 video/ Bad Feelings...

by cerebral＠michianatoday.com

You are correct about the slowness of the 1541, and I was not saying the 64 was 100% perfect, but for the money, the 64 still gives more bang in the video and sound department. and recently, CMD (Creative Micro Designs) wrote a new OS called JiffyDOS. it was comaptible with the original ROM, but used better timing loops that increased the serial bus performance! you just replace the ROM in the motherboard, and the rom in the 1541 with jiffydos, and the results were fantastic, just by rewriting the firmware, the 1541 was now FASTER than a 486 running MS-Hoss with a 5.25 drive. but no matter what 8 bit cpu you use, it is amazing what you can do with 1 MHZ by proper software design. I also timed the performace with a stopwatch, and I loaded a large music editor from the same disk, 1541 drive, with and without jiffyDOS stock 1541 1541 with Jdos 1 minute 20 sec 10 SECONDS!!! pretty spiffy eh?

28 years, 9 months

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Update

by bill＠booster.bothell.washington.edu

Phew. Well I've pruned through my mail and made it to the bottom. To all of you who sent me personal e-mail over the last week - I'll get back to you in the next couple days. I'll also work on processing all the unsubs. On topic - this weekend I picked up some stuff: Need info on: Acorn monitor with strange connector, switch selects modes I, II, III 5 1/4" floppy drive for Atari ST (no brand) Just gloating: Apple IIgs with monitor and 5.25" drive (ROM 1) for $15 Stack of needed manuals at 0.39$ ea. (I'll post duplicates) Apple Disk III drive Franklin Ace 1000 An interesting one - I already have a 1000 and unforch. I think this one is too damaged to save (crushed case - cracked board). The thing is it has a strange disk controller which the Disk III (as in Apple II disk drive) was attached to. It also has a video board of some kind. No part numbers but I'll play around with it some more later. Bill ---------------------------------------------------- Bill Whitson - Classic Computers ListOp bill(a)booster.u.washinton.edu or bcw(a)u.washington.edu http://weber.u.washington.edu/~bcw

28 years, 9 months

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Apple ]['s and C=64 video/ Bad Feelings...

by cerebral＠michianatoday.com

At 05:04 PM 6/22/97 -0700, you wrote: >On Sun, 22 Jun 1997, A.R. Duell wrote: > >> > from, there are compnents of computers that are shear art as the disk >> > controller in the apple II (from what I read the board was drawn 'not >> >> I'll have to disagree with you there. IMHO the Disk II controller is >> nothing other than a kludge. It could certainly have done with a track 0 >> sensor (that would have stopped the heads from banging on start-up). And, >> as a hardware designer, I don't like designs where most of the >> functionality is handled in software. > >Blasphemer! No really though, if you must call the Disk ][ controller a >kludge, at least qualify it by calling it a beautiful kludge, which it is. >Also, having software control over the disk drive is not a bad thing at >all. It allowed you to play directly with the bits on the disks and make >your own disk formats. It provided years of fun and challenge during my >teenage days trying to crack the ever-more-complicated disk copy >protection schemes that the software houses kept creating by way of being >able to control the disk circuitry from software. > >> > totally in the dark about). Case in point, Exidy Sorceror, I purchased >> > one and sent it to Sam Ismael, he is now looking for information, not >> > very many people ever seen one, much less an ad for one, sometimes the >> >> Somewhere I have a Techref for the Sorceror, and one for the S100 adapter >> for it. I also have some user group newsletters, etc. Feel free to pester >> me on this list if you want me to dig this stuff out. >> >> BTW, it's not up for grabs. I need it to maintain my Sorceror :-) > >Tony, any information you can e-mail me or send me concerning the >Sorcerer would be appreciated. I need information about the power >requirements, plus just general information such as how much RAM it came >with, processor type, built-in languages, etc. Thanks. > >Sam Hello there, I an fairly new here, but I am interested in all kinds of hardware and software hacks. Someone out there mentioned the 'sophistication' of the Apple ]['s video addressing, saying that the RAM refresh steals CPU cycles, Apples method is worse than a kludge, it was simply a crufted idea. yes, the Disk II is an elegent kludge,as ALL of my homebrewed electronic gear are kludges just to make them work!<G>. My first computer was a Commodore 64, and comparing it to apples(not oranges :0) the 64 is WAY more advanced, and it too shares a medium populated motherboard. I can do 90% of the multimedia stuff on the 64 as you can with a P-133! my point being, the Apple and 64 both had 6502 compatible proccessors, but the 6510 used by the 64 has smarter memory mangament, and it is fast enough to refresh the ram AND do sprite graphics AND use bit mapped memory. adding perhiperals to the 64 via the serial bus worked NICE, and I can prove history is repeating itself. Look at the new USB (Universal Serial Bus) standard, where they want to run evrything from keyboards, mice, modems etc... the Wintel croud calls it BRAND NEW IDEA, but we did this 10 years or more ago. I got a good taste of Apple's machines in school, and they were ok, but nothing I would ever try to own. the only drawback to the C=64 is that it did not have an expansion bus built in, however it did have a expansion connector which you can hook up a passive backplane to. I dont have much classic stuff but here is what I have: 3 CoCo's, one with 1 floppy drive, all 16K machines. the floppy drive as sold by radio shack is actually an IBM compatible 5.25 drive! the ONLY difference is an attempt by radio shack to foil anyone trying to USE off the shelf floppy drives by placing the ribbon connector on the opposite side, and because of this, the data cable was too short to connect the normal drive. But the controller card and pinouts are all the same IBM standard. The reason was that radio scrap wanted to charge you $400 for adding a drive that costed $50 max at the time. so IBM drives are not limited and can be used in any way, it just takes more hacker skill to implement it. 3 Commodore 64's, one is souped up with JiffyDOS, 1 meg REU, and 1.6 MEG floppy drive. 2 Commodore 128's both work and was extensively used, and because of this, they are on the verge of expiring... the keyboards on the 128's were never as durable as the 64's. 1 IBM XT works, but needs XT keyboard. 1 IBM 286-12, works too, and loaded with MORE TTL than the XT was.... Now the rest of the bunch are not classic, but I will place them here to make the list complete. 1 Acer 386-33, used as a file server 1 home built AMD 586 machine which is what I am composing this message from.

28 years, 9 months

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C64 CP/M carts

by rector＠christcom.net

I was looking through a book I had picked up a year or so ago called "The Elementary Commodore 64". Towards the front amongst the description of various types of peripherals available for the C64 under the title "Other Gadgets" was this: Z-80 CP/M -- This cartridge goes right into the cartridge slot to turn your machine into a Z-80 base computer enabling you to access the vast array of CP/M software. With over 2000 CP/M software programs available, there is little you will not be able to access. Dan Rector

28 years, 9 months

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C=1570 Drive (was Re:C64 CP/M carts)

by chemif＠mbox.queen.it

At 21:44 20/06/97 +0100, we wrote: >> >>>Besides, I was talking about CP/M for the Commodore 1541 drive. That's a >>>multi-speed drive that uses GCR encoding, not MFM. Try writing THAT with >>>22DISK on your PC-clone. >>>I used to know that only C=1570 and C=1571 were capable to read and write >>CP/M disks in a proper way. (GCR+MFM) >>By the way anyone else apart me owning a C=1570 here? >> >>Ciao >> >>i own a 1570, its a american one with a step down transformer, Its >connected to my PC, and guess what, it writes CPM!!! >Steve >Emulator BBS >01284 760851 >Keeping 8-Bit ALIVE Hi Steve, Yours was the only one response I get (since now) from C=1570 owners Mine was made in Germany (did you buy it in the U.S.?) Ciao

28 years, 9 months

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IBM PCjr

by thedm＠sunflower.com

A place in my location called surplus exchange, has about a dozen pcJR's on a skid. I didn't find any power supplies, but by the looks of the place, they could be anywhere. Let me know what to look for when I go back and I'll see if I can't rescue some more. (assuming the old lady lets me). I know the PC JR I bought, has a Parallell port on the outside, which I learned only today is a "Side-car". I have dozens of composite mono and color monitors from my apple// and Zenith collections. I also managed to scrounge out of this pile, [one] keyboard with cable, and [one] joystick and about 5 or 6 cartridges. The other PCjr,s seemed to be alone. Let me know what to look for on the CPU's and I can go through all of them one by one. If anyone else want's one, let me know and we can see what we can do. Last trip there I got a TI99/4a, atari 800, 1050 drive, 410 drive, Tandy COCO 1,. Commodore 1741 drive, Commodore mps 803 printer (I think) it works good. And an apple//+ for parts. I paid 35 for everything. I noticed this pallete of Jr's but I sure as heck didn't see any monitors, keyboards or power, except the one keyboard I did find elsewhere in the building. ---------- > From: jpero(a)mail.cgo.wave.ca > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Re: IBM PCjr > Date: Monday, June 23, 1997 9:28 AM > > > > Welp, that rules out rigging one, thats beyond my techincal ability to > > fabricate. Anyone have an Extra for sale or trade? > They're underrated but you can just get one to keep orginals but I > could supply you a adapter for your own use with a PC power supply > box. This way, you can simply plug in and go? > > I do not know where to get these black transformer bricks. The > PCjr around here is rare as hen's teeth in my hometown. :) > Considering that, I was lucky to find it in standard configuration of > parallel port side car and the box but no cartidges! :( > > I also overheard that someone was trying to use TV with PCjr, you > missed something really needed: demodulator box or find a computer > compsite monitor which works better especially in 80 column mode. > Commorde color monitors is good picks for this. > > Jason D.

28 years, 9 months

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Apple III+'s for sale

by jimw＠agora.rdrop.com

but *not* from me! Read carefully! Forwarded from comp.apple2.marketplace --- Begin forwarded message --- Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 05:22:35 -0600 From: HartranftR(a)nabisco.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2.marketplace Subject: Apple III's for sale FYI ... I have 5 Apple ///'s for sale (improved re-release version), including original monitors. Some with 512K memory. Some peripherals also, including spare parts, Corvus 20 meg server with related Apple III interface cards. Would prefer selling at least computers/monitors in bulk and will consider any reasonable offers. I understand there are now thriving museums and actual user groups still utilizing. If NOT interested, would appreciate any leads for other possible contacts. These machines actually served us quite well ! Thanks Rich H -------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====----------------------- http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet --- end of forwarded message --- -jim --- jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174

28 years, 9 months

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IBM PCjr Allright?????

by thedm＠sunflower.com

Okay, I asked a simple question. Got 3 differnt answers, and folks referring to "over here" and whatever. I live in the US, I will need to go to radio shack to build this. Which diagram is the safest, what parts do I need, and what do I do. ---------- > From: jpero(a)mail.cgo.wave.ca > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Re: IBM PCjr Allright????? > Date: Monday, June 23, 1997 12:27 PM > > > > Yes, I've seen that convention. But if you buy a transformer over here, > > the connection tags will be labelled 0V and 17V or whatever. I've never > > seen a physical transformer marked with a dot (that's not to say they > > don't exist). > Yeah, nothing marked to tell us of phases. :) So that invites > mistakes by unwary who makes power supplies on their own. That why I > offered warning. :) > > (hey, my power supply did not work...) eyes up. :) > > Jason D.

28 years, 9 months

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IBM PCjr Allright?????

by thedm＠sunflower.com

What am I making here? Do we know yet? ---------- > From: jpero(a)mail.cgo.wave.ca > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Re: IBM PCjr > Date: Monday, June 23, 1997 9:51 AM > > Hello Tony, > > > > >From memory the central pin is chassis ground and the outside 2 are 18V AC > > at about 3A. > Actually 34vac 2amp center tapped transformer. The center tap goes > to ground, what else how can negative voltages can be generated so > it needs this ground. The both outside 2 pins for 17v ac lines goes > there. The card rectify it to generate 3 dc voltages, two is > positive and other one is negative. Bulk of the components is used > to generate 5vdc, and a wimpy 12vdc source for the floppy drive and > fan. And last one is in very small current negative current -12v dc > which takes this voltage and go through a 7905 regulator to get -5v > dc, both voltages are strictly for serial use and little use for > else. > > Funny, instead of 60hz, you get the same type of circuit design in > secondary side in lots of switching power supplies with few minor > differences. > > The limits to overdrive if you do, both card and slot is due to the > current limit allowance per contact on that slot. :( Leave it to be > and parallel the seperate power sources to the sidecars if they have > them. Another problem with this is that 3 connections is not enough > to carry more than 2amp on each socket. > > By the way, I am Electomechanical major in training "on hold". :) > > > The manual doesn't give the schematics of the transformer unit (it does > > for the PSU card in the main unit), and it's not clear from the > > description whether the AC input is centre-tapped to ground or not. > > Looking at the schematics, I think that it is _NOT_ > > Oh yes, I did saw the techref for the outside PSU transformer is > pretty simple just a disconnectable center tapped transformer. > One thing I hated that they did not give us the that schematics for > that power card module which I revsere engineered instead! > > Jason D.

28 years, 9 months

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cocos and stuff

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

The Color Computers were: Color Computer 1: Silver/black, 4K-64K Color Computer 2: White, 4K-64K Color Computer 3: White, 64K-128K Micro Color Computer: White, tiny, 4K I've never heard of a TDP-100. The Color Computers had ROM BASIC and most serious users ran an operating system called OS-9 which was kind of like TopView. Expansion is via the cartridge slot. The floppy disk interface was implemented as a cartridge, with the floppy OS in ROM in the controller cartridge. CoCo floppy drives are rare. Floppies stored 156K. There was also a hard disk cartridge, believe it or not; plus, a Multi-Pak Interface which allowed you to connect four different carts and switch between them. There are lots of CoCo fanatics around, somebody probably sells parts and maybe even schematics. In regard to the Inboard/386, as I recall it had 1MB 32-bit RAM on the card, and could optionally use motherboard RAM which of course ran at a much slower rate. My memories may be confused with the Inboard/386 AT, but I seem to remember a daughtercard which could store an additional 2MB or so. Good luck finding a daughtercard though. Kai > ---------- > From: allisonp@world.std.com[SMTP:allisonp@world.std.com] > Reply To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu > Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 1997 11:01 AM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: cocos and stuff > > HI, > > In my non-op list of equipment I have three cocos apparently > operational. > They are of two different styles. > > The smaller is the TRS80 color computer with real keys on the > keyboard. > I have two of these one the case was wiped out, board is ok. > > The larger is TDP-100 personal color computer with chiclet keys. > > Lacking docs I presume these have rom Basic. What expansion is > possible > (there is a port) and how hard. Do they run any real OSs or some > TRShack? > > What's the odds of finding DOCS especially schematics? > > > I have a xt class machine with an Intel Inboard386...(works too!) > what's the > odds of finding schemtics or expansion ram for it? The 1meg of ram is > tight > for somne stuff. Currently I use it as a 10x faster xt. > > Allison >

28 years, 9 months

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PETs ( was Who was in Australia?)

by IVIE＠cc.usu.edu

> %I've been looking for a Jupiter Ace for over 10 years! Do you have any > %leads on them? The schematics were printed in The Computer Journal last year sometime. IIRC, The Computer Journal's URL is http://www.psyber.com/~tcj/. > I have a jupiter ace. It's sitting is a closet somewhere back in > Singapore. > > Another sign of the folly of my youth : I have a Jupiter Ace hanging around, also. However, I just built it last year. Unfortunately, I had to give the rubber keyboard and most of the memory back to the fellow I borrowed them from; I haven't yet gotten around to building a keyboard from aluminized mylar, cardboard, and Tyvek (this should give me a working keyboard, but it will be of ZX80 quality). I've also found enough 2114s in an old MDA card to bring my Ace back to life... > the machine is stripped out, > the TV modulator is missing I don't have a modulator in mine. I gummed a 15-pin D connector to it so I could drive a spare DEC VR201 I had lying around (yes, the VR201 apparently does have enough range to do PAL; it worked great). Roger Ivie ivie(a)cc.usu.edu

28 years, 9 months

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Cocos

by bwit＠pobox.com

Actually, I believe that Hot Coco was a mag published by Wayne Green of 80-Micro and Byte fame. Regards, Bob ---------- From: Mike Sprague[SMTP:sprague@VivaNET.com] Sent: Sunday, June 22, 1997 9:40 AM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Re: Cocos e.tedeschi wrote: > > Just to help me understand better...when you refer to Cocos, do you > refer to the Tandy TRS-80 COlour COmputers? Yes. I don't know where the name origionally started, but the support magazine Tandy put out was called Hot CoCo. ~ Mike

28 years, 9 months

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Introduction

by manney＠nwohio.com

You aren't the only one who does old PC's...that's my business (I recondition old XT/AT's and sell them. Send strange questions to me. I also still sell an occasional Commodore piece! > My main interests (although I enjoy reading all of this) is the older > systems based on the IBM-PC (XT & AT class) machines and PS/2s which I > know is a bit more current than many of you like. I also have a > Commodore 64 and Plus/4 and periphs, I guess I can qualify based on > that.

28 years, 9 months

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Apple II hardware design

by fmc＠reanimators.org

"A.R. Duell" <ard12(a)eng.cam.ac.uk> writes: > I've never liked bit-banged serial ports either (except on > microcontrollers). They always seem to have problems with full-duplex > operation. Yes, Apple sold a bit-banged serial port for a time - I have > one with the manual (which, amazingly contains instructions on linking it > to an ASR33), presumably to save a UART chip. They then sold one that > worked properly (in full-duplex mode, etc) under the name 'super serial > card'. It used (IIRC) a 6850 chip (or was it a 6551?) Hmm? What was that bit-banged serial port? If you look in the Apple ][ red book, there is a little circuit in there that plugs into the game I/O connector and drives a 20mA current loop. Alongside there is a short assembly program to drive it. Now there is a bit-banger. There was an unspectacular serial card for the ][. I don't recall it being a bit banger, just that the combination of it and the printer I was using at the time (an IDS BrighterWriter) wasn't smart enough to manage any sort of common flow control, so that I had to run it at 300 baud. I thought it had some sort of UART-like thing, but maybe my brain is going again. Hmm, I think it was called the Asynchronous Serial Interface or something like that. There was also a Synchronous Serial Interface that (I recently found out) was the Silentype printer interface. I don't remember the Mountain Hardware CPS card that well, and I feel very good about that based on what I do remember. Now there was a klu[d]ge. The Apple Super Serial Card was designed around a 6551. There were a couple of other cards designed around the 6850. The Hayes Micromodem ][ was one of these. ... Strange as it seems today (now that I have done some programming around PC-contemptible serial ports), the Apple ][ serial cards and software generally worked by software-polling-hardware. The only serial card I can remember supporting interrupts was the Super Serial Card, and I can't say that I ever saw it used that way. Certainly none of the "standard" software required it; interrupts just weren't generally done on Apple ][s. -Frank McConnell

28 years, 9 months

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Vector 3-5030

by dbetz＠xlisper.mv.com

Does anyone know anything about the Vector 3-5030 from Vector Graphics? Is it considered a collectable? I recently found one at the town dump and brought it home. It displays some sort of ROM monitor screen when it comes up with version number 4.2. It has a dual floppy drive but no software. I assume it is a CP/M machine since one of the boards in the S-100 card cage has a Z80 on it. -- David Betz DavidBetz(a)aol.com dbetz(a)xlisper.mv.com (603) 472-2389

28 years, 9 months

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Introduction

by rector＠christcom.net

Hello, I guess it's about time that I introduce myself. I've been lurking here for a month or better. I guess I really have not responded before because I didn't really have much to add especially to the discussions of late 70's stuff and the discussions of minis. My main interests (although I enjoy reading all of this) is the older systems based on the IBM-PC (XT & AT class) machines and PS/2s which I know is a bit more current than many of you like. I also have a Commodore 64 and Plus/4 and periphs, I guess I can qualify based on that. I really didn't start out to be a collector, but kind of fell into it. The Plus/4 was the first computer my family ever had, so I've now taken over the care and nurturing of it. I picked up my C64 a couple of years ago from my former minister who had is sitting in his closet. He had two 1541s, a MPS-803 printer, vicmodem, fast load cartrigde, joystick, and monitor, plus a ton of software. He wanted $30 for the lot after I enquired. I was in hog heaven but why wife rolled up her eyes and said "What are you going to do with THAT!" The XTs and PS/2s were give aways. I've really been having fun with the PS/2 Mod 60 (a 286 w/ one 1M and 40M HD). I have been watching AuctionWeb and have added pieces to bring it up to a '486 with 8 meg with SCSI periphs. One of the more interesting 'gives' I have since obtained is the Amstrad PC1512 - It's an XT class machine with built in joystick port in the keyboard (uses same joystick as C64), built it mouse port, serial and parrallel built in with the expansion slots going left to right rather than front to back. The power supply for the whole thing is in the monitor. The case has a 'cutout' for the the stand of the monitor to fit into. It also uses 4 AA bateries for the clock which are easily accessible (move the monitor). It is really a neat design. I live in Rochester, MN - so I'm not close to either coast (but Canada isn't that far away) Dan

28 years, 9 months

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PET

by foxnhare＠goldrush.com

> From: Paul E Coad <pcoad(a)crl.com> > Subject: Re: Who was in Australia? >On Fri, 20 Jun 1997, Kai Kaltenbach wrote: >> Subject: Mint Commodore PET FOR Sale >> From: "Stephen McCoy and Charmiane Barr" >> <mrsmrx(a)efni.com> >> Date: 1997/06/17Message-Id: >> <01bc7b43$fddee5c0$b8933dcf@charmaine> >> Newsgroups: aus.computers.amiga[More Headers] >I'll bite on this. How much is one of these worth? I have almost >zero experience with PETs having only seen 2 in person. What are the >relative rarities of the various models of PETs? Did they make a >bunch of them? Are they really common in some places and pretty >rare in others? As everyone says worth is a relative term, some computers that hvae high perceived values are given to people, etc. This is a question YOU have to answer as a collector, no one can set your price for you. Well alot of the PETS were purchased by schools and some businesses, prices for the computer back then when they were new (1977-1981) ranged >from $700-$1,200, disk drives were about $1,000 for a dual drive model. Nowadays in my region of California schools have been ridding themselves of them at a high rate. The computers are not too terribly hard to come by but the drives are harder to find. Rarity? Hmm, probably the most interesting is the original series with it's colorful calculator-style keyboard (circa 1977) and in-case cassette unit. Next I would say is the SuperPET (circa 1981, the last of the line, which I described about two digests ago) with it's mainframe-friendly, multi-language ability. All units had monochrome displays and either 40x25 or 80x25 screens (no hi-res graphics without 3rd party hardware), the BASIC is almost exacly the same as in the Commodore 64 or VIC-20 and uses a 6502 processor. Memory ranged from the first 4k units (a short run), 8k, 16k and 32k with some of the latter 80 column machines sporting 96k expansion bnoards. There are a few collections of programs available on the internet with most still to be re-discovered. >The ones I have seen are pretty cool looking in a retro-future kind of way. That's true, back then they 'looked' like a modern computer, more than some of the other computers (which looked like the steel boxes they were in). You can spot them as props in movies now and again (Star Trek II, in Kirk's apartment). They were fun, and they were pretty good even for their limitations. If you are a fan of Commodore computers it is a nice addition to have some PETs in the house. ;) >Also note that whois reports that efni.com is in Canada. The machine >might not be in Australia. Commodore was pretty big for a good while in other countries as they had the foresight to start manufacturing plants internationally (Germany was probably one of its largest). As far as shipping a PET it would require a very sturdy box about the size needed for a 19" television and would weigh 30 to 40 pounds. -- Larry Anderson -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Visit our web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/ Call our BBS (Silicon Realms BBS 300-2400 baud) at: (209) 754-1363 -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-

28 years, 9 months

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C64 CP/M carts

by allisonp＠world.std.com

> Z-80 CP/M -- This cartridge goes right into the cartridge slot to turn > your machine into a Z-80 base computer enabling you to access the vast > array of CP/M software. With over 2000 CP/M software programs > available, there is little you will not be able to access. That's 20,000 and for those with a PC Walnut Creek produces a CP/M cdrom that has most all of them. They also have titles online WWW.cdrom.com Allison

28 years, 9 months

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IBM PCjr

by thedm＠sunflower.com

Welp, that rules out rigging one, thats beyond my techincal ability to fabricate. Anyone have an Extra for sale or trade? ---------- > From: jpero(a)mail.cgo.wave.ca > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Re: IBM PCjr > Date: Monday, June 23, 1997 8:44 AM > > > Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 11:13:59 -0500 > > Reply-to: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu > > From: "Bill Girnius" <thedm(a)sunflower.com> > > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > > Subject: IBM PCjr > > X-To: "Classic" <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > > > Picked up one of these the other day, no power supply, anyone know what > > this monster needs for the 3 pin powersupply connection? {pinouts} > > > Center tapped ransformer is used. Both 17v ac at 2amp each on each > outmost pins, center pin is the center tapped wire for transformer. > > Kind of kludge. But I worked out a pinout for that power slot to use > regular efficient power supply via a custom adapter. > > Jason D.

28 years, 9 months

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info about...

by allisonp＠world.std.com

I have a PC05 card (LSI-11) it's a punch reader interface. This one is different...it's a virgin bare board! Anyone that want's it let me know. Anyone know what a DEC 54-17101/2- ACTOR video daughter is used on? I have two of these. Allison

28 years, 9 months

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FS on AuctionWeb: Apple, Atari, Commodore

by gmast＠polymail.cpunix.calpoly.edu

I apologize for the intrusion but I just bought a lot of Apple service parts for older apples (IIe, IIc, IIGS) and listed some of the ones I don't need on the auction. They were supposedly in stock at a service facility when they cleaned out the old stuff. I'mm still intending on clearing out most of my stuff but I couldn't pass up a good deal. I did get some parts for my laserwriter, Mac plus, a couple new in box 400k drives. Too bad I had to buy 30 boxes to get the 5 things I wanted. ;-) There are also some systems listed. Here's what I have listed there as of today: Apple IIe Power Supply (new in box!) Bidding starts at: $1.00 Auction ends on: 06/29/97, 11:58:50 PDT http://www2.ebay.com/aw/itemfast.cgi?item=egt71446 IBM PS/2 MOD 50 Mother Board (in box) Bidding starts at: $1.00 Auction ends on: 06/29/97, 12:07:10 PDT http://www2.ebay.com/aw/itemfast.cgi?item=lbl753 Apple IIe Ext 80 Column/RGB Card (in box) Current bid: $1.00 Auction ends on: 06/29/97, 17:54:14 PDT http://www2.ebay.com/aw/itemfast.cgi?item=jaq4937 bjv77574: Apple IIGS Memory Expansion Card (in box) Current bid: $1.00 Auction ends on: 06/29/97, 17:58:41 PDT http://www2.ebay.com/aw/itemfast.cgi?item=bjv77574 oyf368: Radio Shack TRS-80 Color Computer I (photo) Current bid: $3.00 Auction ends on: 06/29/97, 19:33:30 PDT http://www2.ebay.com/aw/itemfast.cgi?item=oyf368 fwr8114: Radio Shack TRS-80 5 MB Ext. Hard Drive (pic) Bidding starts at: $3.00 Auction ends on: 06/29/97, 20:19:52 PDT http://www2.ebay.com/aw/itemfast.cgi?item=fwr8114 Pair Apple IIc, IIe Handcontrollers (photo) Current bid: $1.00 Auction ends on: 06/26/97, 12:40:28 PDT http://www2.ebay.com/aw/itemfast.cgi?item=sfx4367 Commodore 128D System Current bid: $51.00 Auction ends on: 06/26/97, 21:12:47 PDT http://www2.ebay.com/aw/itemfast.cgi?item=qrk459038 Commodore 64 - White Current bid: $10.00 Auction ends on: 06/26/97, 21:16:04 PDT http://www2.ebay.com/aw/itemfast.cgi?item=wbj37502 Apple IIC System with External Floppy Current bid: $10.50 Auction ends on: 06/26/97, 21:22:31 PDT http://www2.ebay.com/aw/itemfast.cgi?item=hxz389 Atari 520ST Computer, Floppy, Mouse, etc Current bid: $50.00 Auction ends on: 06/26/97, 21:26:58 PDT http://www2.ebay.com/aw/itemfast.cgi?item=czo512

28 years, 9 months

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apple II - SCORE!

by thedm＠sunflower.com

I use alcohol, windex, fingernail paint remover and other noxious things to clean apple][ cases, just avoid getting the nastiest of these solvents on things like the little lite that says power, or the apple ][ logos on monitors or the name badge at the top of the machine. I've also heard that some people will dissasemble the computer leaving the empty shell, take out EVERYTHING, and run the plastic case through the dishwasher, not using the Heated drying cycle of course. As for key repair, they are little plastic wedges that are shoved against two vertically mounted contacts, counter forced by a small spring. You can not remove the keys without damage. To repair a keyboard you have two options, One, Replace the entire keyboard, or aquire a ][ for parts and remove the keyboard from the unit, the contacts are soldered into the keyboard cirucuit board. You can then replace the switch. The Key caps can be removed. but you can't get to the switch of course without destroying it, or desoldering it as a unit. I have manually recontructed them before, but they never seem to work quite right once forced open, but the do function enough to use as long as it's not an alpha charcter, or god forbid the enter key. ---------- > From: J. Maynard Gelinas <maynard(a)jmg.com> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: apple II - SCORE! > Date: Sunday, June 22, 1997 11:57 PM > > > OK, I just got my first decent item since I stopped collecting > several years ago. This is an original apple II, serial number 7833. It > came with what appears to be the Microsoft basic language card. The card > contains six 24 pin sockets, five filled by PROMs (C48040; each with an > APPLE 1978 sticker), a red switch on the back, and another sticker on the > board's surface reading: 851. Just below that sticker printed on the card > it says ROM CARD 600. There's also a disk II interface card, circa '78, > but the drive itself was unavailable. Could someone verify if that card > *is* the Integer BASIC replacement, or Microsoft BASIC? > > The motherboard is functional, video works just fine, it seems > filled out with 48K of that old Military grade metal topped RAM; obviously > the PSU is good. The keyboard is a mess, hoewver. It's been sitting in a > basement for years, so many keys have gummed up; some seem to have been > in a perpetual depressed state waiting out obsolesence like Atlas. The > machine itself is filthy. The plastic case has just burned in grime from > years of use and then even more years of basement ambiance. > > I'm guessing that some folks here may know a bit more about > system restoration. Mind if I ask a few questions? > > How do I go about cleaning this without destroying the case? Does > anyone know of some good solvents or cleaners for plastic? > > Can I pull a keytop off the keyboard without destroying the key? > If it's really bad I guess I could change keyboards - but I'd really like > to attempt to get this guy working, as it was the original. > > > And then there's stuff: I lack a floppy disk drive. Hmmm... how > rare is hard disk technology that will work with this apple? Hahaha, > here's a good one: does anyone know if ever there's been manufactured > 10base-T cards, or am I just dreaming here? If so, guess I'll be looking > for a SuperSerial card as well. > > And basic 'dumb' (no time to RTFM quite yet!!) questions: How do > I get out of the ROM monitor into BASIC? I guess I need some basic DOCS > here as well as a good technical reference, huh?. I figure most of the > 'stuff' can be had on comp.sys.apple2.marketplace and the M.I.T. flea > fest approaching on July 20. If anyone wishes, however, please feel free > to offer items for sale. I want to get this computer clean and > *functional*, but I'm also not in a hury to do it tomorrow. ;-) > > Price: I got it FREE! 8-)) > > And the guy couldn't imagine why I'd want it!!! > > J. Maynard Gelinas

28 years, 9 months

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Hams who collect

by timolmst＠cyberramp.net

At 01:25 PM 6/22/97 -0700, you wrote: >I see a number of references to people who get things at hamfests, >swapfests, and other amateur radio type events. As such, I was just >curious who out there has their amateur radio license. I have one and >my call is KE6HTS. > I'm WB5PFJ, but VERY inactive. Tim Olmstead timolmst(a)cyberramp.net

28 years, 9 months

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Current for trade/wanted list

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

FOR TRADE: - Osborne 1 (with copy of Osborne CP/M system disk) - Kaypro 2 (good condition, no boot disk, though it's available through the cp/m archive) - Commodore PET 2001 (full size graphics keyboard version, looks great, one small hole drilled in front panel, probably for a switch) - Tandy Color Computer 1 (good condition, some cosmetic wear at hand positions) - Macintosh 128 with keyboard and mouse - Macintosh 512 in original box with keyboard and mouse - VIC-20 in original box with PS - Commodore 64 in original box with PS - Timex-Sinclair ZX1000 (no PS but it takes standard 9VDC I believe) (game systems) - Vectrex system, very rare, yes this is the original *vector graphic monitor* console game system by Milton Bradley/GCE - Odyssey^2 system, PS, joysticks, in original box - Intellivision system, captive joypads & integral PS - Colecovision system, 2 controllers, PS WANTED: - Exidy Sorcerer - Processor Tech Sol-20 - Apple II (no suffix) - Apple Lisa - Apple /// - Compucolor II (software, parts, etc.) - TI 99/4A disk operating system cartridge - Expansion Interface for TRS-80 Model I - Tandy floppy for TRS-80 Model I - DOS master disks for Apple II+ - Tandy Color Computer I 5.25" disk software Kai

28 years, 9 months

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bibliography

by e.tedeschi＠ndirect.co.uk

What do you think of this bibliography? Have I missed any important book on the subject? Please help me in making this a useful refence for everybody to use, if you care. Thank you HOME & PERSONAL COMPUTERS HISTORY BIBLIOGRAPHY Books listed as TITLE, AUTHOR, PUBLISHER AND PUBLICATION DATE - Computer lib/Dream Machines by Ted Nelson, self published in 1974 (reprinted by Tempus Books in an updated form in 1987) - An introduction to microcomputers (vol.0) by Adam Osborne, self published in 1977 - The personal computer book by Robin Bradbeer, Gower, 1980 - The making of the Micro by Christopher Evans, Victor Gollancz Ltd., 1981 - Illustrating Computers by Day & Alcock, Pan Books, 1982 - The personal computer handbook by Varley/Graham, Pan Books Ltd., 1983 - Fire in the Valley by Freiberger/Swaine, Osborne/McGraw-Hill, 1984 - Bit by bit, an illustrated history of computers by Stan Augarten, Ticknor and Fields, 1984 - The little Kingdom by Michael Moritz, William Morrow & Co. Inc., 1984 - Hackers by Steven Levy, Doubleday/Anchor, 1984 - Digital Deli by Steve Ditlea, Workman Publishing, 1984 - Silicon Valley Fever by Robers, Everett & Larson, Basic Books, 1984 - Woz by Doug Garr ? - The Third Apple by Jean-Louis Gassee, Harcourt Brace Jovanovich, 1985 - The Sinclair story by Rodney Dale, Duckworth, 1985 - Sinclair and the age of the rising sun technology by Adamson and Kennedy, Penguin, 1986 - John Sculley, Odissey by John Byrne, Harper & Row, 1987 - Steve Jobs, the journey is the reward by Jeffrey S. Young, Scott, Foresman & Co., 1988 - Accidental Millionaire by Lee Butcher, Paragon House, 1988 - West of Eden by Frank Rose, Viking, 1989 - Hard Drive by Wallace & Erickson, John Wiley & Sons, 1992 - Whole Earth Software review magazine, Whole Earth Review - Wired magazine - A collector's guide to PERSONAL COMPUTERS and pocket calculators (an historical, rarity and value guide) by Dr.Thomas F.Haddock, Books Americana, 1993 - Accidental Empires by Robert X.Cringely, Harper Business, 1993 - Insanely great by Steven Levy, Penguin Books, 1994 - The Microprocessor: a Biography by Michael S. Malone, Telos/Springer-Verlag, 1995 - The Chip and How It Changed the World (History and Invention) by Ian Locke, 1995. NOTE: If I had to have only one book I would choose Computer lib. Some of these books are out of print. If you would like to find them you will have to go through a book finding service. I use Culpin's Bookshop, 3827 W.32nd Ave., Denver, CO 80211, USA. The ones in print can be ordered through your local bookshop or by post from Computer Literacy bookshop, 2590 North First Street, SAN JOSE', CA 95131, USA, tel.(703) 734-7771, fax (703) 734-7773. -- ================================================================ Enrico Tedeschi, 54, Easthill Drive, BRIGHTON BN41 2FD, U.K. tel/fax +(0)1273 701650 (24 hours) or 0850 104725 mobile website <http://www.ndirect.co.uk/~e.tedeschi> ================================================================ visit Brighton: <http://www.brighton.co.uk/tourist/welcome.htm>

28 years, 9 months

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Kaypro 10 needs home

by KFergason＠aol.com

In a message dated 97-06-22 22:13:42 EDT, you write: << Have a mint condition Kaypro 10, complete with all manuals. Looks like it came out of the box. Works great, all original software. If you know of anyone who has a serious interest, please e-mail me. Don Sarno >> I would be interested. what are you looking for? Kelly

28 years, 9 months

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Apple ][ design (was: Bad feelings)

by BROBSTONA＠wartburg.edu

>I can understand why the Apple ][ has a significant following - it was a >machine that was 'open', that hackers could get inside, etc. But I also >know that it's not a good piece of hardware design, and thus don't put it >high up my list of interesting machines. Perhaps I am merely biased from growing up with the Apple ][ at school and, later, at home, but I would say that some of the design is ingenious. I do know that many a programmer has complained about the arrangement of the high-resolution screen in memory (which was arranged the way it is to save components). But, I find the economy of this feature fascinating. The Apple ][ and its successors had great capabilities for expansion (with the possible exception of the IIc and IIc+). A IIe has the capability of using a hand-held scanner, for instance, with the right slot card and the right software. I'm sure the IIe wasn't designed originally for that task. There are numerous other examples as well. Your mileage may vary, of course. -- Andy Brobston brobstona(a)wartburg.edu ***NEW URL BELOW*** http://www.wartburg.edu/people/docs/personalPages/BrobstonA/home.html My opinions do not necessarily reflect the opinions of Wartburg College as a whole.

28 years, 9 months

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Apple ][ design (was: Bad feelings)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

I never thought much of the apple design save for it was there and successful by the only standard that counts...they sold like hotcakes. It's not a technical judgement as that really didn't count! there were some machines I considered poor, TRS-80-M1, at a time when z80 was minimally 2mhz and many pushing 2.5 it plodded at 1.7, but it was a complete machine for much less than many of it's kind and available through a nationally known store. Price vs performance _and_ popularity drove a market not real technology. If it was useable and met the current market expectations it sold well. If there was one significant impact apple made it was in the idea of low cost software. Apples were not the home of $350 basic interpreters or $500 compilers. But at one time I counted not less that 5 distictly different OSs. Some were pretty poor but the drive to improve the beast was there. Allison

28 years, 9 months

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Shipping Abroad, bla, bla, bla

by gmast＠polymail.cpunix.calpoly.edu

Thought I would toss out some of my experiences with shipping out of the country. I've sold a few items to various people in other countries (not all computer stuff though). Only problem I've had was waiting for payment. Sometimes it's not sent, sometimes it get's lost. The buyer covers shipping and any taxes/duty when they get delivery. Japan: I sold a couple old Apples as I think they're pretty popular for collectibles there. Hard to find. Some people I sold to were US citizens living there. Shipping is cheapest via USPS slow boat and the customs paperwork is one small form. Australia: Sold some small stuff. Payment arrived faster than most US mail. Shipping is cheap for under 4 lbs "small packets" via USPS and again Customs is a piece of cake. Europe: Austria, Italy. They seem to have a problem with the mail. I sold some cheaper stuff so the buyer sent a money order - lost. Then he sent cash - lost. Ended up wiring the money. According to him he sent out 12 payments at one time and 5 never arrived at the destination. I'd say wiring money is better. Again customs is easy. USPS tells you what to fill out. Canada: Piece of cake. Just be honest on the contents/value. Guam: Shipping is really cheap because its serviced by USPS. Like mailing within the continental US! There was some controversy a while back about exporting collectibles. Supposedly you could buy a concours collector's car for $20k, ship it to europe or Japan and sell it for $50k. Some collectors thought this was treason or something. I really don't know. What I usually sell doesn't fall into any "rare" category and most of it was sold all over the world anyway, just in lesser quantities or slightly different versions. One guy I sold to was in the US. I asked him why he was buying a pile of old Apples, he was putting together complete systems and shipping them to Japan. Funny, Apple had/has a ton of manufacturing in Japan. I wonder if they limit sales there.

28 years, 9 months

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Free DRI, CP/M, MP/M etc. docs

by shoppa＠alph02.triumf.ca

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28 years, 9 months

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BOOK The History of Computers

by ynagasaw＠ic.sunysb.edu

It was sold out. I am sorry. Yujin ---------- > ???o?l : PG Manney <manney(a)nwohio.nwohio.com> > ???? : Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > ???? : Re: BOOK The History of Computers > ???M???? : 1997?N6??20?? 20:22 > > I'd like to buy. Can I reserve it? Please e-mail me with your address and > I'll send you a check. (woukd you prefer money order? some sort of trade? I > have scads of old computer stuff.) > Manney > > ---------- > > From: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu > > To: Manney > > Subject: FS: BOOK The History of Computers > > Date: Friday, June 20, 1997 1:52 PM > > > > For Sale: > > > > The History of Computers -A Family Alubum of Computer Genealogy- > > by Les Freed > > ZD press > > ISBN 1-56276-275-3 > > all color and lots of pictures and illustrations > > > > $12 (shipping included within the United States, original price is > $24.95) > >

28 years, 9 months

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Classsic Computing Newsgroup revisited

by foxnhare＠goldrush.com

About a month or two back we were discussing starting a newsgroup for classic computer collectors. I just wanted to mention there is a somewhat related newsgroup on the net that could use some activity: alt.technology.obsolete I am for it, I have it on my news sites to check and in the last few months I have maybe seen three messages in it (two being multi-newsgroup spams) Whaddya guys (and gals) think? Larry Anderson -- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Visit our web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/ Call our BBS (Silicon Realms BBS 300-2400 baud) at: (209) 754-1363 -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-

28 years, 9 months

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A trip back in time in Boston

by allisonp＠world.std.com

> In particular, none of the Altairs I saw people building in the > mid-70's worked as designed; there were typos in the assembly instructions > and to get reliable front panel operation most people had to tweak > the one-shots that controlled the timing. Some of these > modifications are well documented by John Zarella, in his Byte > (1975:4 p78) article "Assembling an Altair 8800". RE:8800 (A version) BIG TIME! As someone that built one of the first it was a dog to get going and I had scopes and all the goodies. I'd also worked with the 8008 before and was Intelized as it were. A friend build one about 6 months later and it was still flakey as hell. First of many mods was to get the damm oneshots off the cpu card and put in a 8224 clock generator. I got mine to a stable state but when the S4K memories came out I upgraded asap. Better but far >from great. To many oneshots. In late '78 I transfered my IO, NS* MDS to a new HORIZON box with a 4mhz z80. used the altair for a few years to support testing (front pannel). I put it in mothballs about 84 and will likely never use it again. To highly modified to even consider museum piece and in '79 it suffered a lightining hit and was never right since. Allison

28 years, 9 months

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A little guidance - TI Xenix

by danjo＠xnet.com

I realize this is a little off-topic (last build was about 1987 or 88) but I have my self in a corner 8-) There are a couple of windows I could crawl thru if I HAD to. I have a pristene TI Xenix 386DX16 system. I have access to one account and - you guessed it - it ain't root! Nobody seems to remember the root password 8-( I can't believe that I can't break into this thing! I don't have the original disks (I haven't dug that far into ALL my docs) but it has a SCSI Tape drive and two 8 port serial adaptors and some *special* TI card. It has 2 140 MB MFM drives and I want to keep both the drivers for the multiport boards and the SCSI board. I think I can get it to run Linux but I *really* don't want to blow away the Xenix. So - does any body know where I can find a way into Xenix? Are there any archives of CERT Advisories on glaring holes I can worm my way into editing the passwd file or something? I realize I could run CRACK but since that isn't what I normally do for FUN I was hoping the mass intellegence and huge experience in this list might be able to help 8-) All suggestions are welcome - except blowing it away. BC

28 years, 9 months

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Why?

by e.tedeschi＠ndirect.co.uk

What's wrong with this (virtual) "group" ??? Of all the collecting groups I belong to, this is the only one where my (and I suppose other's) public (and private) requests for help have been ignored and (worse) I suspect even opposed. Is there something I don't know? If this the case I would like to know. Thank you. Also your caper to insist on having ALL the items in the collection in working condition is, in my opinion, unique to this group. I can understand (and share) the motivation but surely we (I?) collect for the design point of view and for the historical importance. Don't we? Or am I in the wrong group anyway? Sorry for the frankness but I thought I'd get this one out of my chest before it gets even worse (I am still owed at least 5 replies to my messages) in that I will be banned from this mailing list. Hope not. What is your problem? Hoping to have a straight answer I am Yours sincerely enrico -- ================================================================ Enrico Tedeschi, 54, Easthill Drive, BRIGHTON BN41 2FD, U.K. tel/fax +(0)1273 701650 (24 hours) or 0850 104725 mobile website <http://www.ndirect.co.uk/~e.tedeschi> ================================================================ visit Brighton: <http://www.brighton.co.uk/tourist/welcome.htm>

28 years, 9 months

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bibliography

by manney＠nwohio.com

Anyone want some DEC Rainbow software? I have Symphony, plus some accounting stuff and misc manuals. Pay shipping (from Ohio, USA) and it's yours. I know where there are some Rainbow macines which could be had for next to nothing, if anyone wants.

28 years, 9 months

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This weekend's haul

by zmerch＠northernway.net

Due to massive amounts of caffeine & sleep deprivation, Doug Spence said: >Does the PS/2 not have any 5.25" drive bays? Weird. :) I'm not an IBMer >so I don't know these things, though I *think* one of the machines I used >to do CAD work on was a PS/2 of some flavour. Every PS/2 that I've ever seen (note: this does not mean All PS/2's... just the ones I've seen) didn't have a 5.25" port at all... not even their tower "servers". I suspect it was IBM (trying to) setting a new standard... again. >OK, that makes it useful. Would you happen to know what the pinout is of >the 37-pin connector, so that I can try to make use of the drive without >modification? Is it even possible to buy a matching female 37-pin >connector? IIRC, it's just straight thru with the last/first 3 pins unused... but I'd have to look at the cable or ring some pins to be sure (and yes, I'm a packrat...). I also believe that you can still get 37-pin D-sub connectors thru the Mouser Electronics catalog. Good people to work with... I had 3 distinct problems with my first order (totalling $40USD) and they took care of all of them at their expense (shipped some closeout SMD resistors *overnight* because they forgot them in the package... their expense... that's their policy, despite my not being in a rush for them!) Try http://www.mouser.com . >Interesting. How are the drives interfaced to the CoCos? I've got a >CoCo1, CoCo2, and CoCo3, but I've never found a disk drive for these >machines. All CoCo controllers take Shugart standard drives (now called IBM standard drives... IBM's taking over again!) altho RSDOS limits you to 35 tracks, SSDD, 156K disks (the original Shugart drives) without patches... which (of course) I have. RSDOS can handle a max of 2 DSDD 80 track drives with patches (more accurately... they look like 4 SSDD 80 track drives, with :2 the backside of :0 and :3 the backside of :1) but 1.44Meg storage thru RSDOS is really good! OS-9 can handle 3 DSDD 80trk drives! >> If you (or anyone) needs more info on this drive, lemme know. But I can >> tell you, that just taking it apart is *fun*, if you have 3-4 hours to get >> it apart and back together. I've had mine disassembled 3-4 times now, to >> figure where to cut holes & stuff for my cable mods. > >Heh. I couldn't even get mine apart, because of the two six-pointed >screws on the bottom. The screws have a lump in the middle so I can't use >a flat-blade screwdriver as I did when I had a similar problem opening my >Mac 512K. There are three ways to get into the case, only one of which I recommend. The first method involves a chainsaw and a 12lb (5.5kg) sledgehammer... If you have to ask, you don't want to know. ;^> The second method would require an appropriately sized Torx screwdriver and a Dremel tool with drill press attachment. You would need to drill a small hole in the end of the Torx driver to accommodate the post in the screw. While this method is the safest to the drive, it's also the most work. Method 3 (which is the one I used) requires a pointed instrument (like a leather awl) and a regular (flat-head or slotted) screwdriver that just fit's into 2 of the points of the Torx screw (the screwdriver tip of my tiny Swiss Army knife worked perfectly). Use the awl to bend the post over as much as you can, and this *should* (no guarantees, YMMV, yadda, yadda, yadda...) get you enough room to get enough of the slotted screwdriver into 2 of the star points and extract the screw. As the case is built like a Sherman Tank, once the screws are removed, deep six them. I've been running mine for 3 years without the special screws with no ill effects. Anyway, I hope this helps, and enjoy the drive! Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger Merchberger | If at first you don't succeed, Programmer, NorthernWay | nuclear warhead disarmament should zmerch(a)northernway.net | *not* be your first career choice.

28 years, 9 months

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CoCo Kits

by jrice＠texoma.net

I have an unusual CoCo 2...it was produced as a kit form. I bought it at a RS tent sale in Dallas in 1985-86. I thought it was a plug in the boards kit, but when I got it home it was totally bare boards. Took several hours of soldering to complete. I was told by a friend who was a RS manager, that they were a pilot program for schools to have classes assemble the machines and then the school would have alow cost path to getting more computers. Tandy later decided that this would be a warranty nightmare and sold the kits for $20 at the tent sale.

28 years, 9 months

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Label Remover

by ard12＠eng.cam.ac.uk

There was a thread here a few weeks back about dealing with those sticky labels that seem to accumulate on classic computers. I've just bought a can of a substance called 'Electrolube (the brand name) Label Remover'. You spray it on, wait a few minutes, and rub the label off. I used it yesterday to remove some _strong_ double-sided adhesive tape inside my laser printer, and it did the job extremely well. The can claims that it may attack some plastics (so take care on classic micro cases!), and it's not that cheap (\pounds 4.00 for a small-ish spraycan from Maplin). But it certainly does the job. -- -tony ard12(a)eng.cam.ac.uk The gates in my computer are AND,OR and NOT, not Bill

28 years, 9 months

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bibliography

by ccm＠sentex.net

What a wonderful idea. Such a list is ideal for a web site. I will gather a few more titles (espeically biographical books by and about CEO's from NCR, Raytheon, GE, DEC, etc.) and send them off to you. Kevin

28 years, 9 months

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bibliography(ies)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

> HOME & PERSONAL COMPUTERS HISTORY BIBLIOGRAPHY > > Books listed as TITLE, AUTHOR, PUBLISHER AND PUBLICATION DATE An excellent list! I'd like to point out that between 77-81 timeframe you have a huge hole as there was an explosion of books about microcomputers. Allison

28 years, 9 months

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Kaypro 10 needs home

by DASARNO＠aol.com

Have a mint condition Kaypro 10, complete with all manuals. Looks like it came out of the box. Works great, all original software. If you know of anyone who has a serious interest, please e-mail me. Don Sarno

28 years, 9 months

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AIM65

by bwit＠pobox.com

Sam, Thanks for your efforts in the great AIM-65 buyout! I'll take two of the Panasonics. Regards, Bob ---------- From: Sam Ismail[SMTP:dastar@crl.com] Sent: Sunday, June 22, 1997 4:18 AM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: AIM65 Ok, here it is. Mike Westerfield, the guy with the AIM65s, phoned me yesterday and we spoke about the deal. He has been offered $125 for EACH unit from a company called Dynatem which still uses the AIMs commercially. Mike started a company way back with a product based on the AIM65. It was an insurance rate calculator. In order to make the product marketable, he designed a plastic and a metal-base enclosure. He also placed a compact power supply inside the enclosure to make for a nice complete package. He apparently was very successful with this venture and sold many. At this point, unless someone comes along and offers him more than $125 per unit and buys the whole lot, they are going to Dynatem. That's too rich for my blood. After explaining all this to me, and after I explained what we do here on classiccmp, Mike mentioned that he had a bunch of other stuff that we might be interested in. He has a whole basement full of stuff he would like to sell off. Here's what he told me he has: EPROM burners Logical Devices GangPro-S and GangPro-2S. These can burn 32 chips at a time. These also have other features which make them very nice. Logical Devices GangPro-8 and GangPro-4 which can burn 8 and 4 respectively. Optical Technologies EP-2A-88 and EP-2A-89. EPROMs A "ton" of NEC-2716 and Hitachi 2716 EPROMs He also has the line on hundreds of Panasonic RL-H18 palmtops. This is a palmtop which came out around 1985 and had FORTH in ROM. It also has a 20-col (or 40-col?) thermal printer and a case which bundles the two together. His company also developed an expansion "tray" which houses extra memory that the Panasonic can access through bank-switching. He sold this product to (I believe) an insurance firm and now they want to dump them all. Now again, he said they have hundreds, and were just going to shit-can them, but he said the company would most likely opt to get some money back for them if they could. He said probably about $10 per unit would get them, but they'd have to be purchased in one shot. Now I don't think that there are enough people here with an interest to buy one. I suggested that perhaps they can set aside a couple hundred and then shitcan the rest because I don't have a couple thousand lying around in which to buy all of them, nor would I want to. It's up to us to come up with a proposal. As far as dealing with Mike, I asked him contacting him. At this point, he would perfer the current arrangement whereby I am the central point of contact because it is easier for him. However, this tends to put me in a bad spot for certain reasons. I'm sure there will be people interested in working out a bulk deal with him. To those people I say feel free to contact him since he is most interested in getting rid of everything in one shot. He's not interested in dealing with onesies and twosies. So he would like for everyone who has an interest in a little here and a little there to contact me about it and then he's going to call me again in a week. This would refer mainly to someone wanting one of the panasonic's or a few EPROMs. As far as the Panasonics, he's finding out more information about quantity and we will talk more about price next week. As far as the EPROM burners, I would think that dealing directly with him would be best. Anyway, his e-mail address is Mikeooo1(a)aol.com. He's a very nice guy. He offered that if there was anyone in New Jersey (I believe there is at least one person here, I can't remember his name) to come on down to his place and he'll show you through all the stuff he has. Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass

28 years, 9 months

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AIM65

by fmc＠reanimators.org

Sam Ismail <dastar(a)crl.com> writes: > Mike Westerfield, the guy with the AIM65s, phoned me yesterday and we > spoke about the deal. He has been offered $125 for EACH unit from a > company called Dynatem which still uses the AIMs commercially. Mike > started a company way back with a product based on the AIM65. It was an > insurance rate calculator. In order to make the product marketable, he > designed a plastic and a metal-base enclosure. He also placed a compact > power supply inside the enclosure to make for a nice complete package. > He apparently was very successful with this venture and sold many. At > this point, unless someone comes along and offers him more than $125 per > unit and buys the whole lot, they are going to Dynatem. That's too rich > for my blood. Some computers are so classic that they're still out there doing Real Work! I am going to have to pull my other AIM65 out and take a good look at it to see if I can figure out who badge-engineered it. (I wonder if it was Mike?) It is also in a plastic case that is obviously intended to make it portable, and I wonder how many other companies there were doing specialized applications around them. Thanks, Sam and Marvin, for sounding this out and being the go-betweens. -Frank McConnell

28 years, 9 months

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AIM65

by allisonp＠world.std.com

Sam, I'd certainly be interested in TWO of the palmtops(@$10ea) if there were some docs like a schematic and ??? Allison

28 years, 9 months

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The Truth about AIM-65's

by danjo＠xnet.com

Sam Ismail wrote: > Ok, here it is. > > Mike Westerfield, the guy with the AIM65s, phoned me yesterday and we > spoke about the deal. He has been offered $125 for EACH unit from a > company called Dynatem which still uses the AIMs commercially. Mike > started a company way back with a product based on the AIM65. It was > an insurance rate calculator. In order to make the product marketable, > he designed a plastic and a metal-base enclosure. He also placed a > compact power supply inside the enclosure to make for a nice complete > package. > > He apparently was very successful with this venture and sold many. At > this point, unless someone comes along and offers him more than $125 > per unit and buys the whole lot, they are going to Dynatem. That's too > rich for my blood. The problem lies in the fact that in the early/mid 80's Dynatem *bought* the rights to the AIM-65. Lock stock and barrel. I guess they have a right to buy them. I don't think they are going to get tossed anytime soon. I might try to contact them and maybe buy one of of them. BC

28 years, 9 months

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Printers and Finds of the Week

by KFergason＠aol.com

In a message dated 97-06-21 21:41:21 EDT, you write: << I found an interesting printer today. It is an SR2000, produced by Sears Roebuck & Company, or at least it has their name on it. According >> I have one also, and have the manual somewhere if you need specific info. might take me a week or two to find it though. :-) Kelly KFergason(a)aol.com

28 years, 9 months

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PETs ( was Who was in Australia?)

by jolminkh＠c2.telstra-mm.net.au

---------- > From: Paul E Coad <pcoad(a)crl.com> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Re: Who was in Australia? > Date: Saturday, June 21, 1997 7:39 PM > > > On Fri, 20 Jun 1997, Kai Kaltenbach wrote: > > > Subject: Mint Commodore PET FOR Sale > > From: "Stephen McCoy and Charmiane Barr" > > <mrsmrx(a)efni.com> > > Date: 1997/06/17Message-Id: > > <01bc7b43$fddee5c0$b8933dcf@charmaine> > > Newsgroups: aus.computers.amiga[More Headers] > > I'll bite on this. How much is one of these worth? I have almost > zero experience with PETs having only seen 2 in person. What are the > relative rarities of the various models of PETs? Did they make a > bunch of them? Are they really common in some places and pretty > rare in others? > > The ones I have seen are pretty cool looking in a retro-future kind of way. > > Also note that whois reports that efni.com is in Canada. The machine > might not be in Australia. > > --pec > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Saved From The Dumpster Collection: http://www.crl.com/~pcoad/machines.html Well I'm in Australia and naturally have emailed mrsmrx(a)efni.com to ask their location. Unlike Altair and Imsai, PETs are obtainable here. I have one chicklet keyboard 4k version, a CBM 3032 and a CBM 8032 hulk. I suspect they will always be around because they are so hard to destroy. The case is very solid. I found the "hulk" in a paddock, like some people find ancient cars! I've never attempted to power this one up though.

28 years, 9 months

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Mark 8

by timolmst＠cyberramp.net

>> If you get one of these up and running, I have a Scelbi book, "Space >> Wars for the 8008 Microprocessor" with full hex code listings... > >I also have the three books - > > An 8008 Editor Program > Machine Language Programming for the 8008 > Assembler Programs for the 8008 > >I am such a packrat 8-) > What would be the chances of getting copies of these books? Tim Olmstead timolmst(a)cyberramp.net

28 years, 9 months

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Cocos

by e.tedeschi＠ndirect.co.uk

Just to help me understand better...when you refer to Cocos, do you refer to the Tandy TRS-80 COlour COmputers? Thanks enrico -- ================================================================ Enrico Tedeschi, 54, Easthill Drive, BRIGHTON BN41 2FD, U.K. tel/fax +(0)1273 701650 (24 hours) or 0850 104725 mobile website <http://www.ndirect.co.uk/~e.tedeschi> ================================================================ visit Brighton: <http://www.brighton.co.uk/tourist/welcome.htm>

28 years, 9 months

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Why?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

> >c) You are against helping "foreigners" (and therefore "different") > >collectors to export "your" stuff perhaps in the wrong perception that > >it will diminish the heritage of the country (yours). I have striken a > >deal with one of the subscriber here and he disappeared in the distance > >after a while (he did not answer anymore...) By the way does anybody > >need British stuff? I would be glad to help you with it. There is the matter of customs which many americans have little experience with. I sent a floppy to someone in canada and despite it being our neighbor the customs paper was amazing! I was told it's worse if there is a transaction involved. Allison

28 years, 9 months

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Mark 8

by timolmst＠cyberramp.net

>Actually a 8ksram and a 8kprom would do it. Actualy what I had in mind was for the EPROM to copy itself into RAM and then switch itself out. THat way, you could have as much, or little, in ROM as you want, and not loos any RAM. >That this is slow enough you could use the EEprom for sram! (the slow parts >was 20us and the real fast one was 10us (single byte instruction). I believe that the fast one was 12.5us wasn't it? That is what I have. > >The real annoying part is capturing all the muxed status and syncing it. > If you've ever done anything with an i960, this is duck soup. >Making the front pannel logic is the real work, it wouldn't be right without >the FP! > My original 8008 system had a home-brew front panel. I would GLADLY do without that and just drop in a monitor ROM this time. >> What do ya think? > >Tim, your a sick puppy. THANK YOU!!!! > Tim Olmstead timolmst(a)cyberramp.net

28 years, 9 months

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Dumpster Diving

by fmc＠reanimators.org

"J. Maynard Gelinas" <maynard(a)jmg.com> writes: > You know, I may have a dissenting view here, but I think some of > this stuff *ought* to go in the landfill. Sure, it will get destroyed, > but landfills will be our legacy 500 years from now. It would be > wonderful for a few high quality specimens of every type of computer made > to survive in museums, but we also want to give our future archaeologists > some reasonable sample of system distribution geographically. Oh well, > disagree if you like. Y'know, they don't just plonk the stuff down and spread a layer of dirt on top. They run it over with this nice bulldozer sort of thing that has steel wheels with cleats. Crunches the stuff up better. -Frank McConnell

28 years, 9 months

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Printers and Finds of the Week

by josh＠netins.net

>I found an interesting printer today. It is an SR2000, produced by >Sears Roebuck & Company, or at least it has their name on it. According >to it's test printout, the date stamp on it is 9/25/86. I recently found a Sears Roebuck & Company SR3000, which is oddly enough a RGB/Composite monitor made for the commodore line? Who knows. It even has a speaker in it! Picture is really nice. Made around the same date! Got it for only $10! If I don't use it for an old computer, it is a great way to view the camcorder stuff! Josh M. Nutzman +----------------------------------------------+ |"Life is like a river, you go with the flow...| | but in the end you usually end up dammed." | | -The Red Green Show | +----------------------------------------------+

28 years, 9 months

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Saturday's Finds and a source in Central CA

by foxnhare＠goldrush.com

I finally attended a almost 'near-by' used computer store's "warehouse sale" and was somewhat impressed. The sale is held Saturday mornings in an old nursery greenhouse about 5 miles east of Lodi on Highway 12 (in California) Almost every table is covered with equipment, a good portion seems to be discards from local school districts and others are from who knows where. The good and bad news is much of it has had some share of the elements and are sold as-is, but they are priced to clear. (they were not "out in the open" like some machines you have reported, but almost). The store keeps most of the more-modern usable stuff (PC cards, motherboards, printers, etc.) and leaves behind a lot of Commodore PETs, 64s, Apples, old PCs, etc. Must have seen about 1/2 dozen apple ///s in varying states, even more apple ][s, (from some ][ pluses to a Platinum ][e w/keypad and a couple ][cs), plenty of drives (1541, apple and old hard drives; looking for an older hard drive? make a 'look for' list ready). Lots of monitors (condition unknown as many were from a repair shop that closed; also alot of composite Commodore monitors - 1702s and CM141s). Many PC enclosures (not my area so I didn't look too hard, did see look at a Commodore PC clone though (figures), motherboard still there, but no cards or drives, some older pulled cards in boxes. I did notice at least three Osborne computers, the one I opened to look at was a later model as it didn't have that tiny screen in the center but what looked like an 8" display. Bunch of Jasmine Hard Disk cases (external, backpacks, and clip-on drives) and such for people needing power/cases for projects (some with drives still in em). Also various cables (bunch of IEEE-488), power supplies (commodore 64 was in abundance) some books and other micellany. I didn't see any minis there, but you never know... We came out with: - Educator 64 (a Commodore 64 in a PET enclosure w/monochrome 14" display) computer is dead but it uses a standard 64, so no problem there. ;> - Commodore LP2031 PET/CBM IEEE-488 single drive (a IEEE-488 drive in a 1541 case) seems to be ill but much of the electonics and all mechanicals match the 41, no problem! - Jasmine Removable 45 drive (I am assuming a Syquest 44mb drive, it looks similar) still have to get a cartridge to test, but seems clean and ok. - Commodore 1541-II w/power supply & cable (so far so good) - C= Brick Power Supply (light colored one. still untested) - Sea Wolf & Clowns cartridges for the VIC-20. - 'Commodore' paddles and 'Commodore' joystick - An AC 'muffin' fan (works, now cooling the BBS!) - 6 Commodore books (including three nifty Hofhacker ones published by Elcomp) I left a whole bunch of other VIC & 64 books behind cost $30.00 (I could have walked out with more for the same price, but I was being good) Warehouse Sale: 10400 Highway 12, about 5 miles east of Lodi, 8 am to Noon on Saturdays (if you do go, let them klnow that Larry, the Commodore guy told ya about it!) The computer place is: Allen's To Go, in Lockeford, (209) 727-0477 -- I picked up at a couple thrifts some (soon to be) blank disks, the prices are cheaper than MEI/Micro's bulk pricing, $1 for a box of 10+ 5.25" DS/DD... Larry Anderson -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Visit our web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/ Call our BBS (Silicon Realms BBS 300-2400 baud) at: (209) 754-1363 -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-

28 years, 9 months

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Printers and Finds of the Week

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 97-06-21 21:41:21 EDT, jeff h. wrote < I found an interesting printer today. It is an SR2000, produced by >Sears Roebuck & Company, or at least it has their name on it. According > to it's test printout, the date stamp on it is 9/25/86. What makes the > printer interesting is that it is a dual-interface model, with both a > standard centronics interface, as well as what appears to be the 6pin >mini-din for the Commodore 8bit serial interface. Were there any other >interfaces that used that connector that it might be? I've found >replacement ribbons for it on the web, but no spec info. It's a dot >matrix printer with between 7 and 9 pins, and cost me a total of $4 and > works great. > Jeff jeffh(a)unix.aardvarkol.com > -- >> back around 1991 i had bought the sr3000 model. it's an old 9pin dot matrix printer, and for the most part, seems to be compatible with the epson fx-85. i was able to find replacement ribbons for it at sears also. i was kinda thrilled to see it had a serial port, but then again, it was only for C= models. if anyone needs more info, i still have the owner's manual for mine. as a side note, i had it plugged into my laser128 running GEOS, the mac like interface that ran on the machine but never could get the sr3000 to work, the only driver GEOS had was for the sr2000. david.

28 years, 9 months

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Printers and Finds of the WeekFrom: Sam Ismail <dastar@crl.com> To: Classic Computer Discussion <classiccmp@u.washington.edu>

by foxnhare＠goldrush.com

References: <199706150702.AAA14700(a)lists3.u.washington.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit RE Printers... Gorilla Banana, Tandy DMP 100, Commodore 1525, etc. It was a standard printer mechanism by some manufacturer (I suspect Shikosha (sp)) All were 7 pin characters. I remember some early Commodore Printers (before the 1525) were Epson units (one based in the MX70?) I also remember, for the PETs, our school had a SWTP dot matrix printer. Pretty nifty little bugger, no fancy coverings, you got to see all the gears (printed on 4" wide roll paper as I recall) liked like an early ticker machine or something like that. They also had a Commodore 4023 and a Diablo 630 (heavy as heck and made quite a racket too). I have owned a couple curiosities such as the Commodore 1520 printer plotter (another model type that bore through many company brands) four little tiny pens. Made neat sounds when it was drawing text and lines. :) I still have my Citizen iDP560cd printer, prints on wide register tape (2.?? inches) in two colors (Black/Red) has a Commodore interface and all that. (nowadays you usually see that model printer -w/parallel interface- hooked up to merchant ATM units). Other now gone units MPS-801 and Star NP-10. Other (classic) printers I now have are a Riteman F+ (precursor to the ProWriter Jr.) it has a very short ribbon (something like 20") but a unique feed system (able to print on index cards and use the first line of a page...). Everything else is somewhat modern late model dot-matrix and ink jets. Oh, and a Commodore 8023 wide-carriage dot matrix for my PETs. ------------- RE: Sam Ismail <dastar(a)crl.com> Subject: Beat this haul... >Ok, the weekend's not even over, and here's how I did: [snip!} >Commodore 64, Commodore 64C (two of 'em, one seems to be this weird clone >since the plastic looks different from the other one and it has no >markings) It's probably an older 64 in that slimline case that was selling a few years back to make an older 64 more resemble a 64C. I recall the ads in Compute's Gazzette and RUN. *** light applause *** that certainly was a haul as well as a good little adventure! Thanks for sharing it with us. :) I know of a Salvation Army in Oakdale that has a small basket full of TI carts including some nice AtariSoft titles... ;) Next time when I get there (and if they are there and are cheap enough) I'll pick some up. --------- Now for my haul (which was today, Sunday). At the Flea Market: 2 Atari Power Packs (15.3va and 31 va) $3.00 now all I need is some Atari DOS and utility disks (HINT! HINT!) 1 Commodore 64C power supply $1.00 a couple printer switchboxes $1.00 ea. Toshiba external SCSI CD-ROM drive (seems to be partially working) $3.00 14.4 Modem $2.00 External Amiga Drive $1.00 At the Thrift Store: Commodore SuperPET (Gosh was I lucky) $20.00 (w/Wordpro plus quick referencebooklet, PET to IEEE-488 cable, power cord and "the Manager" dongle still attached) Commodore 4040 Dual Drive $5.00 3 IEEE-488 cables $2.00 each The SuperPET isn't responding, but still worth it, (I cracked it open to see the guts, there are two daughterboards connected to the motherboard the topmost seems to be the RAM (which makes the computer 96k), and I assume below that is the 6809 co-processor and RS-232 driver. Now I have to hunt down more information... :) Four toggle switches peek out on the side which allow for the storing of the language you wish to use, (setting it to ROM mode did not seem to change the situation) Have yet to test the 4040, I hope it is functional. So far everything from the Flea Market seems to work (I have yet to test the 64 supply though). Nice day, though I think my checkbook is feeling a little thin... Larry Anderson -- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Visit our web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/ Call our BBS (Silicon Realms BBS 300-2400 baud) at: (209) 754-1363 -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-

28 years, 9 months

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Why?

by zmerch＠northernway.net

Whilst in a self-induced trance, e.tedeschi happened to blather: >Scott Walde wrote: While I fully agree with what Scott wrote in his (admittedly longwinded :-) post, I'm not sure if it was stated simply enough.... >> Back to the religion thing again... If I was giving something away, and a >> person wanted it to use it for some purpose which I am 'religiously' >> opposed to (I can't think of a good example off hand) I would probably try >> to find someone else to take the item. I think that this should be my >> right. (I do have the right to practice my religion, don't I?) I hope >> you can see how this applies directly to the computer issue. To put it in 4 words, I believe Scott is saying: "Live and let live." >So now the problem is clear...notwithstanding all the previous >declaration to the contrary THERE IS a problem of someone being opposed >to some other use (and possibly location) of the stuff. I think it is >only fair that it is so. If the problem is clear to you... could you explain it to me? My mind is still dizzy from all this... :-) (Oh, and BTW, would you mind not yelling?) >What is NOT fair is to try to hide it and find other excuses like...too >difficult to pack... to expensive to be worth bothering with it....too >much paperwork etc. Ain't we all in the same passion? If not then I >would rather not be here. Personally, I had no idea that they still "shipped" (pun intended) things on "the Big Pond." I would not have even thought to look for something other than airmail, and I can attest (as I live on the Canada-US border) that Customs can be a right pain in the behind. >See what I mean? (is this too much cultural for someone?) Well, no. Enrico, I do have one question: Are you waiting for someone to say to you: "You're right?" If so, I don't believe you've presented enough evidence to us to judge whether or not you are. I can say that several of the "points" you've tried to make have been very vague and could be interpreted a number of different ways. I've noticed that several people on this list has tried to explain what they percieve to be going on, and I readily admit that I don't know enough about what's going on. However, one thing I do know very well is communication, and there does seem to be a major miscommunication problem here. I for one, would like to see you stay with the list, and yes, there might be the occasional twit on the list as well, but I'm on 5-6 lists (two of which I run), and I must say that I've seen fewer twits on this list than on my others. I have several friends I've met thru e-mail all over the world (and yes, including the U.K... ;-) and I will say that I was offended with you're insistance that this was a "foriegner" issue... This is called the "World Wide Web" not the "U.S. Web." I can also guarantee that no matter what country you visit, you *will* find at least one twit living there. Guaranteed. Enrico, if you can clearly explain your position (with examples, if necessary) to me in private e-mail, I would be more than glad to help you out and would even be glad to act as intermediary between you and anyone else with which there may be a communication problem. Otherwise, I'll go back lurking and I will have no more to say about this thread. (I promise!!! ;^> ) Just my tuppence worth, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger Merchberger | If at first you don't succeed, Programmer, NorthernWay | nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* zmerch(a)northernway.net | be your first career choice.

28 years, 9 months

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Why?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

> > There is the matter of customs which many americans have little experien > > with. > I accept that....but you are such a big country. Isn't it about time you > start looking outside and try to understand other cultures? (no offence > meant) I worked for several companies that was very good in that respect, Japanese and European. I did exchange information and material on a very regular basis however, it was another person in shipping that took care of details of getting it there. AS an engineer the machanics of those transactions were an inpediment to doing the work! In short you are confusing the mechanics of transaction with cultural interaction. I have had only on case where I got something for the shipping cost and depite care in packaging by the shipper a s100 box was received severely bent! Over a certain weight crating is a must it would appear. I don't have the resources to crate a machine. For me save for that one long distance transaction other than for a floppy, a board or paper/books(small under 2kg) to strictly local transactions withing the driving distance of my old toyota pickup truck. As is, that can prove difficult! Allison

28 years, 9 months

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[Fwd: Re: Altairs (was RE: Collector Article)]

by e.tedeschi＠ndirect.co.uk

Just by coincidence here is an example I have just received just now (there have been more before I started this debate; I don't that I am paranoid, there is definetely something in this group which is (generally speaking): a) against "displays" (pulling out bits to display etc.) b) Against shipping overseas (cost is no problem as is paid by the recipient) It took my some four e-mail messages to get to this message enclosed here. See what I mean? enrico -- ================================================================ Enrico Tedeschi, 54, Easthill Drive, BRIGHTON BN41 2FD, U.K. tel/fax +(0)1273 701650 (24 hours) or 0850 104725 mobile website <http://www.ndirect.co.uk/~e.tedeschi> ================================================================ visit Brighton: <http://www.brighton.co.uk/tourist/welcome.htm>

28 years, 9 months

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[Fwd: C65 - The 2nd]

by scott＠saskatoon.com

Also found this in comp.emulators.cbm ttfn srw

28 years, 9 months

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[Fwd: Commodore Plus/4 w/ 1541]

by scott＠saskatoon.com

I found this on comp.emulators.cbm ttfn srw

28 years, 9 months

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Who was in Australia?

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

Subject: Mint Commodore PET FOR Sale From: "Stephen McCoy and Charmiane Barr" <mrsmrx(a)efni.com> Date: 1997/06/17Message-Id: <01bc7b43$fddee5c0$b8933dcf@charmaine> Newsgroups: aus.computers.amiga[More Headers] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01BC7B1A.15107EE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hey all If you are in the market for antique computers and accessories I got one for you--Commodore PET (Slim 25) with a working tape drive and cable. The unit works at its factory best standards as well as the tape drive. If anyone is collecting antique Commodore computer from the seventies/eighties this is a classic machine and there are few left in North America. If you wish to bid on this unit (only serious bids will be received/answered) please write an email to me at the below address and I will get back to you.Thanks for reading and have a good day.-- Stephen McCoy "Quiet"mrsmrx(a)efni.comWise men are those with an open mind to subjects others are not :]

28 years, 9 months

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This mlist is ACTIVE!

by gmast＠polymail.cpunix.calpoly.edu

I would suggest subscribing to the list in Digest form. One big email message per day and you can skim through to the ones you want to read. Or just delete the whole thing if you're not in the mood (heaven forbid!) > > I just subscribed to this mailing list yesterday and am amazed at the > > traffic. Just today, I seem to have received more than 80 messages! > > Which is why I'm dropping it. >

28 years, 9 months

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Commodore Variable Speed Drives???

by foxnhare＠goldrush.com

References: <199706200702.AAA08312(a)lists.u.washington.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sorry to burst your bubbles, but the Commodore drives ARE 300 RPM like most of the others, many 1541 flywheels have the speed-calibaration diagram on them (use fluorecent light to determine correct RPM). 154s and the lot have software&hardware to adjust the density on tracks so more data can be stuffed in inner tracks and allow the outer ones to spread out. No special speed involved here. It is because of this that many computers with dumb drives can't read the 1541 format (including Amiga!) the controller cards seem to be limited in this fasion. Thus there is quite a demand for 1541 drivess and (pre-converted) .d64 files in the 64 emulator community. ;) I think all the 5.25" Commodore drives were based on the variable density initiated in the 2040 DOS. My Complete Commodore Inner Space Anthology has differing sector counts on tracks on all the models (4040, 2031, 1541, 8050, 8250/SFD-1001) The hard drives (9060 & 9090) seem to be uniform thoough. Things changed with the 1581 disk (3.5") which uses a variation of the MFM format, and can be readable with PC/Amiga computers (with the proper software, of course.) -- Taking quotes from that LA article on collecting: > Most of these early machines and programs, which didn't work very >well when they were new [IBM PC,MS/DOS], are even more troublesome to maintain now >[Windows 95]--and have been rendered obsolete by wave after wave of new equipment. >[Macintosh, Amiga, NeXT, etc., etc.] Yep, translates to modern-day very well. > Greelish, a computer repairman, has spent about $2,600 in recent >years building a collection of 35 computers, mostly by trolling for >bargains on the Internet. $2,600 for only 35 machines???? Anyone have his address, I have some 64s for him! -- "Altairless" Larry Anderson -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Visit our web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/ Call our BBS (Silicon Realms BBS 300-2400 baud) at: (209) 754-1363 -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-

28 years, 9 months

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DEC Pro350/380

by allisonp＠world.std.com

Im looking for a case for the DEC pro380 (same size as 350) as I have a complete board set (cables and even power supply) for it and no case! Allison

28 years, 9 months

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(fwd) FS: TI Equipment (fwd)

by dastar＠crl.com

Here's some TI/99 stuff that might interest some people. Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Hole In The Wall now offers a small (but growing) selection of TI99/4A parts and equipment as a service to the TI community. Our Web site should be up within 10 days. TI Peripheral Expansion Boxes - $40 TI99/4A consoles (black and silver) - $27.50 (orig. box, manuals, RF) TI RS232 Cards - $40 TI Disk Controller Cards (SSSD) - $20 TI 32x8 Memory Expansion - $25 TI Writer (orig. cart, disk and manual in binder) - $10 Much more to come! Email for more info. -- <= KEITH BERGMAN => The Glass Eye / Hole In the Wall Enterprises PIT Magazine / Chicken Dog kbergman(a)toltbbs.com "just want a way not to be what gets sold to me" - Jawbox -- Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass

28 years, 9 months

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Altairs (was RE: Collector Article)

by BigLouS＠aol.com

In a message dated 97-06-20 18:10:08 EDT > Kai Kaltenbach wrote: > > > > I'm kind of curious how many Altairs we have on this list. I've got > > > > 3... I suggest that a Classic Computer Rescue team head out to Kai's house and rescue two of those Altairs. They could them be put up for adoption and ultimately be given a loving home where they will be receive the INDIVIDUAL care and nurturing that they deserve. :-) Lou

28 years, 9 months

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CP/M disk (was Digilog 1500)

by BigLouS＠aol.com

In a message dated 97-06-20 03:16:54 EDT, Tim Shoppa wrote: > Hmm. One of my friends got a LOT of apple II stuff from a business that > > went under. One of the things he got was an 8" CP/M disk. I'm gonna go > > try to get my hands on it. (It said CP/M on it). It may be > > destroyed/gone by now. This was a year or two ago, before I got > > interested in old stuff... Any way to tell what system it's for without > > being able to read it? The disk could be for an Apple system. 8" drive controllers where offered for the Apple II line back in 1980 because of the huge (for the time) capacity of DSDD 8" disks. I had a Lobo controller hooked up to a Franklin 1000 and two 8 inchers and it was pretty impressive. I eventually replaced the drives with a 10 meg Corvus hard drive (cost $5000). I've been trying to locate an 8" controller for my Franklin 1000 for quite a while but haven't had any luck. Lou

28 years, 9 months

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Collector Article

by sinasohn＠crl.com

At 12:36 AM 6/20/97 -0700, you wrote: >Gee, then I have an Apple bonanza worth $2000 in my garage. Whatever. >This is what I am dreading of this hobby, that assholes like this Haddock >guy start trying to price things out. I think it's as someone said; at the time the book was written, Apple II's were still in strong demand, esp. from the school market. My girlfriend's school still uses and maintains a fleet of II's. (Schools simply cannot afford to buy lots of new computers.) (Ask me, if you're interested, about how macs ended up in her classroom.) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn(a)crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 9 months

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AIM65

by KFergason＠aol.com

In a message dated 97-06-18 02:16:46 EDT, you write: << His e-mail address is Mikeooo1(a)aol.com and he left his phone number for me: (201) 331-1313. Please reply if you are interested in going in together on this. Sam >> I would be interested in this. Kelly Fergason KFergason(a)aol.com

28 years, 9 months

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BOOK The History of Computers

by manney＠nwohio.com

I'd like to buy. Can I reserve it? Please e-mail me with your address and I'll send you a check. (woukd you prefer money order? some sort of trade? I have scads of old computer stuff.) Manney ---------- > From: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu > To: Manney > Subject: FS: BOOK The History of Computers > Date: Friday, June 20, 1997 1:52 PM > > For Sale: > > The History of Computers -A Family Alubum of Computer Genealogy- > by Les Freed > ZD press > ISBN 1-56276-275-3 > all color and lots of pictures and illustrations > > $12 (shipping included within the United States, original price is $24.95) >

28 years, 9 months

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EBCDIC

by rector＠rocketmail.com

Sam, I don't own any computers that use EBCDIC, but I use them every day at work. EBCDIC - extended binary coded decimal interchange code is the character set used on most (if not all) IBM mainframes and midrange systems. (IBM S/390, S/36, S/38, AS/400 etc.) This set has its roots in punched cards (and prior) and really makes more sense when viewed >from that perspective vs. that of the way things are today. ASCII - American National Standard Code for Information Interchange. Back when I was in college, an instructor stated it this way: (Speaking about the need for a uniform way to share info across machines.) "There are two ways to obtain a standard in the industry. The first is to get a big committee together and have all parties involved agree on what it should be (ASCII). Or, be the largest company in the industry, do it your own way and force everyone else to adopt your way of thinking. Dan ---Sam Ismail <dastar(a)crl.com> wrote: > > > DOes anyone have a computer which uses the EBCDIC character set, rather > than ASCII (did I get the acronym right? what does it stand for anyway)? > > Just curious. > > > Sam > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass > > > > _____________________________________________________________________ Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com

28 years, 9 months

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Mark 8

by allisonp＠world.std.com

> Today it would look a LOT different. Let's see, what WOULD it look like? > Start with a PAL to generate the oddball clocks, and some misc decoding, f > it, then throw a 32k skinnydip SRAM at it (OK, you can tie one address li > to ground to limit it to 16K), an 8K EPROM (since that's what I've got in > stock), say, an 8251 for serial I/O, and you've got a basic machine. Actually a 8ksram and a 8kprom would do it. Or better yet a 2 or 8k EEprom. That this is slow enough you could use the EEprom for sram! (the slow parts was 20us and the real fast one was 10us (single byte instruction). The real annoying part is capturing all the muxed status and syncing it. Making the front pannel logic is the real work, it wouldn't be right without the FP! > What do ya think? Tim, your a sick puppy. It's got style! Allison

28 years, 9 months

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This mlist is ACTIVE!

by bluesky6＠ix.netcom.com

I just subscribed to this mailing list yesterday and am amazed at the traffic. Just today, I seem to have received more than 80 messages! Ben

28 years, 9 months

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Mark 8

by timolmst＠cyberramp.net

At 06:30 PM 6/18/97 -0500, you wrote: > >On Wed, 18 Jun 1997, Kai Kaltenbach wrote: >> | ---------- >> | From: James Willing >> | Subject: Re: Mark 8 >> | >> | On Wed, 18 Jun 1997, Marvin wrote: >> | >> | > I need another project :) and I was thinking about building the Mark >> | > 8 computer. Somewhere, I seem to recall that someone was having the >> | > board sets for this computer made up, does anyone out there know >> | > or remember who might be doing this? >> | >> | That would be me... >> >> If you get one of these up and running, I have a Scelbi book, "Space >> Wars for the 8008 Microprocessor" with full hex code listings... > >I also have the three books - > > An 8008 Editor Program > Machine Language Programming for the 8008 > Assembler Programs for the 8008 > >I am such a packrat 8-) > >BC > > Here I go volunteering again. Could those books be scanned/ocr'd? I'm sure that the original authors wouldn't care, even if they did admit to writing them. I have all the hardware and software to do that. I have a softspot in my heart (and my head) for the 8008. That was my first computer. I couldn't afford to buy something like the Mark 8, so I designed, and built it, myself. By the time I was ready to retire it, I had an S100 video card (SSM), and a 9-track tape drive, running one track serial at 5k baud. Used my own designed r/w amps, even. It ran great, just real slow. I still have the CPU chip from that machine, holding down a piece of foam. Seing these posts about the Mark 8 made me nastolgic. If I could get enough data, I might consider building a new machine with that old "first CPU" chip. Today it would look a LOT different. Let's see, what WOULD it look like? Start with a PAL to generate the oddball clocks, and some misc decoding, for it, then throw a 32k skinnydip SRAM at it (OK, you can tie one address line to ground to limit it to 16K), an 8K EPROM (since that's what I've got in stock), say, an 8251 for serial I/O, and you've got a basic machine. What do ya think? Tim Olmstead timolmst(a)cyberramp.net

28 years, 9 months

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C64 CP/M carts (was: Re: Yet another weekend haul story)

by chemif＠mbox.queen.it

At 06:57 19/06/97 -0400, you wrote: > >On Sat, 14 Jun 1997, steve wrote: > >> At 06:10 13/06/97 -0400, you wrote: > ><snip> > >> >Of course this all assumes that I *have* a PC. > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ><snip> > > >Besides, I was talking about CP/M for the Commodore 1541 drive. That's a >multi-speed drive that uses GCR encoding, not MFM. Try writing THAT with >22DISK on your PC-clone. >I used to know that only C=1570 and C=1571 were capable to read and write CP/M disks in a proper way. (GCR+MFM) By the way anyone else apart me owning a C=1570 here? Ciao

28 years, 9 months

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Collecting old microprocessors (as opposed to Computers)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

> The oldest CPU type I have is an NEC 8080A. Still trying to figure out > how to make use of it. The legs are pretty corroded (used to live in > humid climates). I could give you a dozen of them (all pre '80 date code or older!). You need other parts to build a system using it. Minimally you need 8224 clock chip and a 8bit latch or 8228 to get the status signals off the buss. The rest if perpherals and memory. Others from that (pre 1980) era I have: IMSAI IMP-48 (works but, I really need a manual or schematic!!!) circa '79 If you've never seen one it's a small board with relays and opto IO for control use, tty interface, cassette IO led display and keyboard for programming(in hex!). National SC/MP 8a500 cpu(late '78) RCA1802(base cosmac elf 1979, board from the first PE article) 6502(old part) TI9900 chip on board(technico super starter system) moto 6800D1 kit('75-76) LSI-11/03 card that's a tad older them most of those (functional too). I also have a small system using the National nibbleBASIC (8070) chip in 1980. Allison

28 years, 9 months

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Altairs and old stories

by allisonp＠world.std.com

> I know - this will be something I do in Electronics class next year. > While everyone else makes an oscillator or something stupid, I'll build > an Imsai! You laugh, I did something along that line (1971) only it was a solidstate Oscope of my own design. I wanted the class for acces to the tinshop so I could fabricate the steel shields(for the crt) and chassis. If it were three years later it would have been a mark-8! While off the subject... I had a Horizon up in '78 and put the NS* version of the pascal P-system. Since I knew zip about pascal I decided to take a course that used pascal, so happens it was data structures. Blew the proffessors mind when after going on about the 1180 the class would use for assignments I asked if I could use my own system if it conformed to Niklus&wirth. Seems he didn't believe me until I brough the whole mess (left the printer behind) with me the next class and set it up! It was the begining of the revolution as Apples were also just starting to be seen. A year later that declaration of I happen to have a suitable system was no longer an item of skepticism. Sorta like the pocket calc in my EE junior year.... ;-) Allison

28 years, 9 months

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Altairs (was RE: Collector Article)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

> Define "plans". I have full sets of the schematics for the units in my > collection (as I suspect many do), but if you are talking about the > mechanical drawings for things like the case, boards, etc., I am not awar > of those ever being made available. The case was a standard box available at the time. Some of the inside brackets were custom as were the layouts. I've never seen a full printset, and I wonder if there really was. Allison

28 years, 9 months

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FS: BOOK The History of Computers

by ynagasaw＠ic.sunysb.edu

For Sale: The History of Computers -A Family Alubum of Computer Genealogy- by Les Freed ZD press ISBN 1-56276-275-3 all color and lots of pictures and illustrations $12 (shipping included within the United States, original price is $24.95)

28 years, 9 months

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Altairs (was RE: Collector Article)

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

| Does anyone still have the PLANS for one? If you mean schematics, yes. The Altair was built from a kit, not plans. You may be thinking of the Scelbi Mark 8, which was built from plans. Kai

28 years, 9 months

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Altairs (was RE: Collector Article)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

> Does anyone still have the PLANS for one? Yes but I'd build an imsai! The altair was first but not that nice technically. Also the case, front pannel and many componenets would have to be fabricated. I happen to have a spare case and power transformer. I'd love to get an imsai or 8800b box so I could fully retire(not sell) the altair I have. Allison

28 years, 9 months

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FS on eBay: Apple, Atari, Commodore

by gmast＠polymail.cpunix.calpoly.edu

I listed a few systems on the auction at eBay this week. Still trying to clean up around here. If interested, please go to the link below for more info or email me with questions. Thanks, Greg Here they are: Pair Apple IIc, IIe Handcontrollers (photo) Current bid: $1.00 Auction ends on: 06/26/97, 12:40:28 PDT http://www2.ebay.com/aw/itemfast.cgi?item=sfx4367 Commodore 128D System Bidding starts at: $3.00 Auction ends on: 06/26/97, 21:12:47 PDT http://www2.ebay.com/aw/itemfast.cgi?item=qrk459038 Commodore 64 - White Bidding starts at: $3.00 Auction ends on: 06/26/97, 21:16:04 PDT http://www2.ebay.com/aw/itemfast.cgi?item=wbj37502 Apple IIC System with External Floppy Bidding starts at: $3.00 Auction ends on: 06/26/97, 21:22:31 PDT http://www2.ebay.com/aw/itemfast.cgi?item=hxz389 Atari 520ST Computer, Floppy, Mouse, etc Bidding starts at: $3.00 Auction ends on: 06/26/97, 21:26:58 PDT http://www2.ebay.com/aw/itemfast.cgi?item=czo512

28 years, 9 months

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Altairs (was RE: Collector Article)

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

I'm kind of curious how many Altairs we have on this list. I've got 3... I know that Jim has at least 2. Who else? | From: Marvin | Someone that | contacted me recently said that they had sold their Altair for $3000. Whom? | Another story I heard (true?, I don't know) was that someone advertised | their Altair on the net for $4000. This person was flamed for asking so | much, and his only comeback was that it had already sold. If this happened, it had to have been before 3/95, since there is no reference to it in DejaNews. | There was a | reference in TCJ by one of the editors(?) that they wouldn't be | surprised by the price reaching $10,000. I agree, though it's going to take a few years. People tend to acquire items that they wanted when they were in high school or college. Those people are now in their early forties, and that syndrome doesn't really get going full steam until 50-60 (my father, with 7 Corvettes, is a perfect example). I'd put the Altairs at $10K+ in 10 years. They sky's the limit in 20 years, maybe $100K (all in today's money of course). One reason for the expected price skyrocket is the number of people like me (and several others on this list) who acquire them and will never sell them, thus depleting the market. Kai

28 years, 9 months

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Collector Article

by FAIAZMC＠hsd.utc.com

Does anyone know where I can find equipment accessories for the PC8500 (NEC) laptop? Thanks! Mike ---------- From: Sam Ismail To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Re: Collector Article Date: Friday, June 20, 1997 3:36AM On Thu, 19 Jun 1997, Uncle Roger wrote: > At 03:31 PM 6/19/97 -0500, you wrote: > >prices listed for Apple equipment in "A Collector's Guide to Personal > >Computers and Pocket Calculators" are quite high, possibly since the book > > Apple II+ is quoted as $100-$200, the IIe $125-250. The Disk II is listed > as $75-150. Haddock's book is way high on some things, (seems) way low on > others, and, occassionally, is right on the money. Nonetheless, it *is* > interesting, has some nice pictures, and is probably a good reference to have. Gee, then I have an Apple bonanza worth $2000 in my garage. Whatever. This is what I am dreading of this hobby, that assholes like this Haddock guy start trying to price things out. Sam ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- ---- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass

28 years, 9 months

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Apple ][e software?

by BROBSTONA＠wartburg.edu

>> I managed to get DOS 3.3 by finding a game or something that ran on >> DOS 3.3, halting it with Control-C to get to the Applesoft BASIC >> prompt, then using the file commands such as INIT to make a new disk. >> I can't remember if DOS 3.3 has a built-in command that will copy a >> disk... There's probably a way to do it. > >It's not built-in, but the DOS 3.3 distributions have the Intbasic >program COPY which will do what you want. If you've got one of >these crippled II+'s or later that only have Applesoft, you can >still use COPYA. I'm wondering if there's a way to hack code to get it to copy without any System Master programs. I don't remember. I know the easy way out would be just to get the System Master, but now I'm just curious. :) -- Andy Brobston brobstona(a)wartburg.edu ***NEW URL BELOW*** http://www.wartburg.edu/people/docs/personalPages/BrobstonA/home.html My opinions do not necessarily reflect the opinions of Wartburg College as a whole.

28 years, 9 months

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C64 CP/M carts (was: Re: Yet another weekend haul story)

by steve＠kennard.keme.co.uk

At 18:08 09/06/97 -0400, you wrote: > >On Mon, 2 Jun 1997, George Lin wrote: > >> At 11:24 PM 6/1/97 -0700, you wrote: >> ><...> >> >> accessories including a CP/M cartridge for C64 >> > >> >A CP/M _carthridge_? Awesome. >> >> I just tried it yesterday. Pretty cool. The Z80 is in the cartridge. The >> package comes with a CP/M 2.2 diskette for 1541 and a condensed CP/M manual >> by Commodore (copyright 1983). There is a K-Mart price tag on the original >> box that reads $54. Not bad. > >This reminds me... I also have a Z80 cartridge for the C64. But it's not >the one from Commodore. It's from a company called DATA 20 Corporation. > >I haven't been able to get it to work. It has what looks like a connector >for a power supply on the back, but I didn't get the PS with it. It also >came without any disks, though it did have a cassette in the box with it, >which says "Use side A for Commodore 64/Use side B for VIC 20". > >It's a Z-80 Video Pak, that combines the Z80 processor AND an 80-column >display adapter into one (big fat) cartridge. > >To quote from the box: > > The Z-80 Video Pak brings the convenience of an 80 column screen and > the power of a CP/M compatible operating system to the Commodore 64. > > Designed to be used with a monitor, the Z-80 Video Pak lets the > Commodore 64 owner switch to a 40 or 80 column screen in black and > white, or back to the standard color screen. All switching is done > through software and no cables need to be moved. > > The Z-80 Video Pak has its own Z-80 microprocessor and operating > system which allows the 64 to run CP/M software formatted for the > Commodore 1541 disk drive. A Terminal mode which brings communication > with central data bases is included at no extra cost. The Z-80 Video > Pak also supports the advanced screen handling features of all Video > Pak models such as erase to the end of line, erase to end of screen, > and dump screen to printer. > > >If anyone out there knows this thing's power requirements (AAAGH! Another >wall-wart!) and where to get CP/M disks in 1541 format, please tell. :) > > >Doug Spence >ds_spenc(a)alcor.concordia.ca > >CPM DISKS Easy Download em from the net, make a 1541 lead to connect the 1541 to PC its in the DOX on C64s Emulator, Use a util on the PC called Star Commander and copy stright to a real 1541. Easy!!! If you need more info Mail ME.. Steve Emulator BBS 01284 760851 Keeping 8-Bit ALIVE

28 years, 9 months

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AIM65

by dastar＠crl.com

Ok, here's the deal. Marvin & I are both in contact with a guy who says he has 14 AIM65 units. Hopefully you all have been paying attention and have read the messages describing what this is. Marvin & I are of course both interested in buying one, and we dicussed the possibility that others in the discussion would be interested as well. We feel that if enough of us get together and offer this guy a bulk buy-out, we can get a good price from him. Marvin & I are talking about $20 a piece as of now. If this is of interest to anyone, I can give you his e-mail address and you can ask specific questions, but make sure you mention you are a part of this one-shot buyout so that we get a good deal. I think first we should get a count of who is all interested and then approach the guy. He's in New Jersey, and I don't think shipping should be more than $5 per unit. His e-mail address is Mikeooo1(a)aol.com and he left his phone number for me: (201) 331-1313. Please reply if you are interested in going in together on this. Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass

28 years, 9 months

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Altairs (was RE: Collector Article)

by jolminkh＠c2.telstra-mm.net.au

Huw Davies wrote: ---------- > From: Huw Davies <H.Davies(a)latrobe.edu.au> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Re: Altairs (was RE: Collector Article) > Date: Friday, June 20, 1997 1:19 PM snip > > Are there any other Australians on the list, and if so, any pointers to > getting an Altair down under? In addition, I'm looking for an Epson PX-8 > (aka Geneva). > I'm in Australia (Sydney), been collecting for about 3 years and have never seen or indeed even heard of an Altair existing in Australia. To get one?, obviously offer $10,000 on this list and import it from the USA. Hans

28 years, 9 months

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Apple /// booting and Franklin question

by thedm＠sunflower.com

You need a disk to boot, called "Catalyst" so you still boot from floppy, but the disk initialized the Profile and that's what comes up. I have a working profile, and its missing some of the directories on the menu, anyone know how to edit the menu and stuff? For merely a pre-paid envelop and a disk mailed to me, i'd be wiling to copie the catalyst disk for you. ---------- > From: Kai Kaltenbach <kaikal(a)MICROSOFT.com> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Apple /// booting and Franklin question > Date: Tuesday, June 17, 1997 6:35 PM > > I think I saw this go by once before on the group, but - > > - How do you get an Apple /// to boot from the ProFile? > > Also: > > - Does anyone consider the Franklin Ace 1000 Apple II clone very > collectible? > > thanks > > Kai

28 years, 9 months

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Apple /// stuff (was: Re: This weekend's haul)

by thedm＠sunflower.com

Yes they made and External Disk ///, a joystick /// as well, I have both :) ---------- > From: Sam Ismail <dastar(a)crl.com> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Re: Apple /// stuff (was: Re: This weekend's haul) > Date: Thursday, June 19, 1997 9:31 PM > > On Thu, 19 Jun 1997, Doug Spence wrote: > > > > My internal floppy seems to be hosed. I can't boot any disks off of it. > > > Some bgin to boot but then go to error, others invoke this horrendous > > > recalibration that never ends. I assume the drive head is dirty and the > > > speed needs calibrating. I wonder if I can calibrate this drive like one > > > can the Disk ][? > > > > Bummer. Is it not possible to use a Disk ]['s drive mechanism with the > > ///? Internally or externally? Obviously trying to do so internally > > would bring form factor problems, but I'm wondering if it could be done > > anyway. > > I would guess that the controller is compatible with Disk ][ drives, > although it would not surprised me if Apple purposely changed the pinouts > or used a different connector to thwart anyone attempting to use a ][ > drive with the ///. > > > Thankfully my internal drive works, but I wouldn't mind hooking up a > > second drive to it... and the chances of finding a Disk /// lying around > > are practically nil. > > I don't think they made such a beast...did they? > > > > Doug, if you want I can e-mail NuFX (ShrinkIt) images to you. This would > > > be the quickest way for you to get them. You'd need an Apple // running > > > shrinkit of course. The disk format between the // and /// is identical. > > > > That would be great, thanks! I've never used ShrinkIt, but I can at least > > get stuff to and from my //e, and I've got two Disk ][s and a 512K RAM > > card in it. I'll get ShrinkIt via FTP. > > ShrinkIt is easy to use. You'll do fine. I'll try to e-mail the images > to you in uuencoded format sometime within the next few days (I am busy). > > > I don't suppose the /// disks are available at some anonymous FTP site > > already? It'd be especially cool in .dsk format, as that's how I transfer > > all of my ][ software. (I never had a decent terminal program for my > > Micromodem IIe, so I wrote a whole disk transfer program and extract > > individual files when I have to once the disk image is on my Amiga.) > > I doubt it. It would be a good thing to do though. > > > Sam > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- > Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass

28 years, 9 months

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Victor 9000

by sinasohn＠crl.com

At 11:50 PM 6/15/97 -0400, you wrote: >So what exactly is a Victor 9000??? >Just another PC clone? Not a clone, but similar. Max RAM was 768K, came with a Floppy Drive as standard (IIRC). Was the first computer to use variable speed disk drives (as the early Mac's did as well.) Ran an early version of MS-DOS, I think. And, IIRC, it pre-dated the IBM PC. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn(a)crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

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Collector Article

by sinasohn＠crl.com

At 03:31 PM 6/19/97 -0500, you wrote: >prices listed for Apple equipment in "A Collector's Guide to Personal >Computers and Pocket Calculators" are quite high, possibly since the book Apple II+ is quoted as $100-$200, the IIe $125-250. The Disk II is listed as $75-150. Haddock's book is way high on some things, (seems) way low on others, and, occassionally, is right on the money. Nonetheless, it *is* interesting, has some nice pictures, and is probably a good reference to have. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn(a)crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 9 months

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Victor 9000

by sinasohn＠crl.com

At 07:49 PM 6/19/97 BST, you wrote: >> I thought the idea of variable speed drives was to have the same >> number/sized sectors on each track? Perhaps I goofed there too... > >Let's go through this logically. Doh! It makes perfect sense the way you explain it. Thanks! --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn(a)crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 9 months

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C64 CP/M carts (was: Re: Yet another weekend haul story)

by sinasohn＠crl.com

At 07:36 PM 6/19/97 BST, you wrote: >Oh, come on, an ST is _tiny_ compared to the sort of machines I run. I'd >have no problem fitting another one into my 'machine room'. Now, if >somebody offered me a PDP12, I'd start having problems.. There's a reason I'm concentrating on portable computers... 8^) But seriously, I know a lot of people who have small studio apartments, where they *truly* have room for only one computer. >Why is the PSU a problem? I guess it's easier over here, where we have Just that it takes up room... Sometimes every little bit counts! --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn(a)crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 9 months

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1 GB SMD Disk drives

by kyrrin＠wizards.net

Those of you who own systems that use SMD drives, take note! RE-PC, Seattle, WA, has turned up a quantity (6 or 7) of Seagate 'Elite' series SMD disk drives. These are small ones (physically speaking), in the form of 5.25" full-height. They're brand new, still in their original boxes, and appear to be unused. I know these will go cheap, since SMD is useless to the PC world (thank God!). If these are of interest to you, either drop by RE-PC (if you're in the Seattle or nearby areas -- 1565 6th Ave. S, near the Kingdome), or give them a call at (206) 623-9151. Ask for Steve Hess or Mark Dabek, ask specifically about the Seagate SMD drives, tell them I sent you, and make them a decent offer. Enjoy! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin(a)wizards.net) http://www.wizards.net/technoid "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."

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TRS-80, etc.

by jpw＠netwizards.net

>2) 80-Micro, TRS-80 Microcomputing News, Computer News 80, and 80-US >Journal magazines, etc. I think we have every issue of 80-Micro from Issue 1 to sometime in 1989(?) when it became 100% PC based and we let the subscription lapse. We even still have the 1982 (or was it 1983?) special 500+ page Christmas special. I can see if we are willing to part with it if you are interested. Later, --John

28 years, 9 months

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Altairs (was RE: Collector Article)

by H.Davies＠latrobe.edu.au

At 10:53 PM 6/19/97 -0400, Mr. Self Destruct wrote: >On Thu, 19 Jun 1997, Marvin wrote: > >> Kai Kaltenbach wrote: >> > >> > I'm kind of curious how many Altairs we have on this list. I've got >> > 3... I know that Jim has at least 2. Who else? >> > >> >> I have three. >> > >I have none. :( Me too :-( OK, so I've always wanted to post a "Me too" response, and I've finally done it :-) Are there any other Australians on the list, and if so, any pointers to getting an Altair down under? In addition, I'm looking for an Epson PX-8 (aka Geneva). Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies(a)latrobe.edu.au Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550 Fax: +61 3 9479 1999 La Trobe University | "My Alfas keep me poor in a monetary Melbourne Australia 3083 | sense, but rich in so many other ways"

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Collector Article

by dastar＠crl.com

Here's an article Doug Coward forwarded to me. You guys will get a kick out of it, especially the price list at the end. $200-$400 for an Apple ][...yeah right. I have some property on the moon... Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass 02490420 60320 THE CUTTING EDGE A Byte of History Techies Taking a Scroll Down Memory Lane Los Angeles Times (LT) - MONDAY August 12, 1996 By: GREG MILLER; TIMES STAFF WRITER Edition: Home Edition Section: Business Page: 1 Pt. D Story Type: Main Story; Infobox Word Count: 1,797 TEXT: The nerds are getting nostalgic. Barely 20 years into the personal computer revolution, techies across the country are growing increasingly sentimental about the machines and programs that changed their lives and ushered in the Information Age. For them, booting up a vintage Commodore PET computer can conjure misty-eyed memories. Toggling the switches of an Altair 8800 is better than gripping the gearshift of a first car. And a shrink-wrapped copy of VisiCalc software beats a mint-condition Mickey Mantle baseball card any day. This is the memorabilia of the PC generation, and after spending much of the last decade or two collecting dust in suburban garages from Silicon Valley to Boston's Route 128, it's starting to make a comeback. Virtual museums of vintage hardware and software are sprouting up all over the Internet's World Wide Web, as are online classified ads placed by collectors desperate to reacquire the technological wonders of their youth. Some rare PCs are fetching much higher prices now than they did when they were brand-new, and even revered institutions such as the Smithsonian are bolstering their computer collections. "The amount of activity that I see is amazing," said Kip Crosby, president of the Computer History Assn. of California in Palo Alto. "People are always asking me: 'Can you find me an Altair? Can you find this or that?' I get 10 to 20 phone calls and e-mails a month, twice as many as a year ago." Most of these early machines and programs, which didn't work very well when they were new, are even more troublesome to maintain now--and have been rendered obsolete by wave after wave of new equipment. But like certain cars or baseball cards, high-tech relics are somehow enhanced by the passage of time. Collectors see them as the symbols of a more colorful computer age populated by legendary personalities who became billionaires--or, in some cases, went bust. "That's why I'm interested in computer history," said Co Ho, 30, an Internet administrator at Fullerton College. "Many people could have made it big, but they fell asleep and ended up having somebody else eating their cake." Ho collects vintage software, especially programs that changed the computing landscape but somehow faltered. One of his favorite pieces is CP/M, an early operating system created by Digital Research. CP/M might have become the operating system had Digital Research's founder, the late Gary Kildall, been more hospitable when IBM came calling to license his software. In a legendary blunder, Kildall and his wife refused to sign IBM's confidentiality agreement, and IBM executives took their business to a then-tiny company known as Microsoft. "CP/M missed the boat because of casual behavior," Ho said. "It's really a sad story." Ho is one of the few people who collect software. More collect hardware, and one of the most sought-after machines is the Altair 8800, introduced by MITS Inc. of Albuquerque in 1975. It didn't have a keyboard or a monitor, only rows of switches on the front of the box. The Altair kit sold for $395 when it was new, but one in good condition today can fetch as much as $1,500 because of the exalted position it holds in computer history. Widely regarded as the first mass-market personal computer, it launched a craze when it appeared on the cover of the January 1975 issue of Popular Electronics. Bill Gates even dropped out of Harvard to develop an early version of the Basic programming language for the Altair. The Altair "established Bill Gates in business," said Gwen Bell, founder of the Computer Museum, a Boston mecca for computer lovers. "One of our prize treasures is the original Basic tape that Bill Gates developed on the Altair." Collectors tend to pass over some of the most popular early machines, such as the original IBM PC and the 1984 Apple Macintosh, because there are just too many of them. Scarcity counts, which helps explain why the most valuable collectible is the Apple I. Introduced by Steven Jobs and Stephen Wozniak in 1976, the Apple I was nothing more than a circuit board. It had no keyboard, no monitor, not even a case. It sold for $666, and only a few hundred were produced. A well-preserved Apple I can fetch as much as $12,000 today, sometimes more. An Apple I signed by Jobs and Wozniak sold for $22,000 at a fund-raiser auction for the Computer Museum several months ago, Bell said. That kind of appreciation has attracted the attention of even non-techie collectors. "I got a call from an investment advisor for a Wall Street banker," Bell said. "He asked: 'Should I get him into collecting old computers? Will they increase in value more than art?' I said, 'I don't know--I'm not a dealer.' " In fact, there aren't any prominent dealers of antique computers, at least not yet. But a few collectors are hoping to change that, including David Greelish, founder of the Historical Computer Society in Jacksonville, Fla. Greelish, a computer repairman, has spent about $2,600 in recent years building a collection of 35 computers, mostly by trolling for bargains on the Internet. He uses search engines such as Yahoo to root out online classified ads for Altairs and other vintage machines, and he keeps an eye on alt.folklore.computers, a newsgroup where history buffs hang out. "Ultimately, I would like to see (the Historical Computer Society) grow and publish magazines and books," he said. "I'd like to start displaying our collection and even restoring computers for sale." Greelish and others said would-be collectors should look for machines that look clean, have all the original equipment and documentation and still run. A number of guidebooks are available, including Stan Veit's "History of the Personal Computer," published by WorldComm in Asheville, N.C., and "A Collector's Guide to Personal Computers and Pocket Calculators," published by Krause Publications in Iola, Wis. Experts urge caution, however. There's no guarantee that old computers will grow in value, and they are very difficult to maintain. "If you've never opened up your computer and looked inside, this is probably not the collectible for you," Bell said. Instead, experts say, this is a hobby better left to people who were enthralled by the recent PBS documentary "Triumph of the Nerds," people who still have a soft spot for monochrome terminals, "Chiclet" keyboards and the odd shapes of the early machines. But even among techies, there are plenty of people who scoff at this new fad, including Kim Nelson, service manager at ACP Superstore in Santa Ana. Founded 20 years ago, ACP is one of the oldest computer stores in Southern California, holds swap meets that attract legions of collectors, and might be one of the region's best unofficial museums. The store's top shelves are crammed with artifacts of computer history, although Nelson calls it junk. "Isn't it amazing that we have computer folklore now," he said, walking with a reporter along rows of vintage Commodores, Imsais and Tandys. "That's kind of sad when you think about it. Seems to me there are things that are a lot more important." But as he uttered those words, service technician John Krill walked by and surveyed the line of creaky machines. Almost against his will, Nelson was sucked into an episode of technology reverie. "Look at that Kaypro," Krill said. "That company grew so fast they were warehousing their inventory in tents." "Weren't they the ones that had the fire too?" asked Nelson, perking up just a bit and eager to demonstrate his techno-trivia prowess. The conversation drifted from machine to machine. "When I was in college, I would just leave my Osborne up in the library," Krill said with a laugh, recalling the immobility of the first portable computer. "The damned thing weighed 27 pounds. I didn't want to lug it around." Fifteen minutes passed before the two realized that their walk down memory lane might have strained the attention span of their guest. "That's enough, John," Nelson finally said with an embarrassed grin. "You're boring him." Greg Miller can be reached via e-mail at greg.miller atimes.com (BEGIN TEXT OF INFOBOX / INFOGRAPHIC) Computer Collectibles Here are some of the PCs attracting the attention of nostalgic techies: Model: Apple I Year introduced: 1976 Original price: $666 Current value: $10,000-$12,000 * Model: Mark-8 Year introduced: 1974 Original price: $250 Current value: $3,500-$4,000 * Model: Scelbi 8H Year introduced: 1973 Original price: $440 Current value: $1,200-$1,500 * Model: Altair 8800 Year introduced: 1975 Original price: $395 Current value: $1,200-$1,500 * Model: Imsai 8080 Year introduced: 1975 Original price: $440 Current value: $400-$600 * Model: Apple II Year introduced: 1977 Original price: $1,195 Current value: $200-$400 * Model: Osborne I Year introduced: 1981 Original price: $1,795 Current value: $200-$300 Descriptions: Apple I: With no monitor, no keyboard and no case, the Apple I was little more than a circuit board. Only a few hundred were produced. Mark-8: A kit computer that was the subject of the first magazine article describing how to build a computer. The article appeared in Radio Electronics Magazine in 1974. Scelbi: Predated the Altair and was the first computer based on a microprocessor advertised for sale. Only a small number was made. Altair 8800: Programmed by switches, the Altair 8800 had no keyboard, no monitor and just 256 bytes of memory. But it is widely regarded as the first mass-market personal computer. The Altair, based on an Intel processor, started a craze when it appeared on the cover of Popular Electronics magazine in January 1975. Imsai 8080: Modeled on the Altair, the Imsai had several technological advances and a more polished look. Had no keyboard or monitor but was briefly the fastest-selling personal computer. Apple II: This is the machine that launched the company--and the personal computer industry. Apple II computers came with a keyboard, monitor and two disk drives. Most important, they ran VisiCalc, the original spreadsheet program that was the personal computer's "killer application." Osborne I: Considered the first portable computer, even though it weighed about 30 pounds and was the size of a suitcase. It had a 5-inch screen, two floppy disk drives and 64K of RAM. Sources: Stan Veit's "History of the Personal Computer," published by WorldComm, Asheville, N.C.; David Greelish, president, Historical Computer Society, Jacksonville, Fla.; "A Collector's Guide to Personal Computers and Pocket Calculators," published by Krause Publications in Iola, Wis. AL SCHABEN / Los Angeles Times

28 years, 9 months

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C64 CP/M carts (was: Re: Yet another weekend haul story)

by sinasohn＠crl.com

At 05:10 PM 6/19/97 BST, you wrote: >I really don't see the interest in emulators if the real hardware still >exists. I'd much rather have the real thing, and have all the fun of >maintaining it, than have a piece of software (probably without source) >running on a PC that I can't get spare chips for. Perhaps it's because I'm >a hardware hacker, but emulators seem to lack so much compared to the >phyusical machine. Perhaps it's because you have a bigger apartment? I know a lot of folks running ST emulators on PC's because they wanted both, but didn't have the room... "lack so much compared to the physical machine..." yeah, 2nd ps, 2nd keyboard, 2nd monitor... 8^) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn(a)crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 9 months

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Victor 9000

by sinasohn＠crl.com

At 07:38 AM 6/19/97 -0400, you wrote: >> standard (IIRC). Was the first computer to use variable speed disk drives Okay, I dug up where I got that idea from (ACM/Computer Museum Computer Bowl, 1994, Round 3, Toss up question #6): "6. The Victor 9000 computer featured an innovative design in its disk drives. What was unique about the disk drives?" and the answer was: "6. Variable speed" So in between reading that, and now, "innovative" transmogrified into "first of its kind". Sorry about that! >That's how it gets 21 sectors on tracks 1 to 17, 20 sectors on tracks 18 >to 24, 18 sectors on tracks 24 to 30, and 17 sectors on tracks 31 to 35. I thought the idea of variable speed drives was to have the same number/sized sectors on each track? Perhaps I goofed there too... --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn(a)crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 9 months

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Digilog 1500

by fmc＠reanimators.org

Marvin <marvin(a)rain.org> writes: > It seems every time I turn around, I find something else I either > haven't seen in a while, or don't know anything about it. In this case, > I picked up a brand new Digilog 1500 some number of years ago. It is > not on the "Big List" so does anyone know anything about this? I seem I wonder if this is the same Digilog that made the Digilog 600 that is sitting in my office at work. It is not a general-purpose computer, but instead a serial line analyzer: one of those things that you plug in between two uncooperative serial communications devices to divine the nature of their uncooperativeness. It's also got a breakout box built in, and you can tell it's portable because it's got a handle (think Osborne 1 for some idea of its arm-lengthening properties, though). And a 3.5" stiffy drive for saving and replaying traces. I last used it in 1995, and have moved it along with me to different offices because no-one else wants it. It works well enough for what it is, but it doesn't understand IP, SLIP or PPP-in-HDLC at all. That is the sort of stuff we need to look at these days and we have better tools for doing that. -Frank McConnell

28 years, 9 months

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the wonderful sound of big iron

by clark_geisler＠nortel-nsm.com

dseagrav @ bsdserver.tek-star.net wrote: >I like my real PDP better than the emulated one. The real one has one >feature that E11, and Supnik 2.2, and all the rest can NEVER have that >annoys my family to no end - THE EAR-SPLITTING NOISE! :) It drives them >Nuts, and I can't get enough of it! There's nothing like powering up the >11/23 and hearing that "Bwaaaaa!" as it all spins up - then it becomes a >gentle roar (I don't have a rack or case of it, so it sits out on a >table). Everyone leaves, and I'm free to hack alone. Not to mention the >emotional satisfaction that you own a piece of history - No matter how big >or inefficient the piece! Which was the primary reason I went out of my >way to get one. And the reason I kept my CoCo, and my C64. Has anyone who has their mini collection displayed on a web page put the *sound* of their machines on the net? I especially love the sound of those big fans and hard drives powering up. Whenever I get around to fixing up my 11/730, I'll definitely have to get a recording of it powering up: from the turn of the key, to the ratcheting sound of the TU58 microcode boot tape, to the sound of the LA-120 printing terminal printing the 'enter date and time' prompt. Actually, I don't have the LA-120, but remember the sounds. Clark Geisler Test Engineer Nortel

28 years, 9 months

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CLASSICCMP digest 88

by ghjorth＠sn.no

Would somebody please unsubscribe me from this list? Thank you.

28 years, 9 months

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Here are the Tandy 600 specs

by zmerch＠northernway.net

Due to massive amounts of caffeine & sleep deprivation, Kai Kaltenbach said: >Tandy 600 > >Introduced: > October 28, 1985 FYI: Mine was built in September, 1985, so I would imagine they would need some time to ramp up production for the introduction. >Storage: > Internal 3.5" 360K floppy > (storage only, not bootable) Not bootable, 'cause it boots from ROM. BTW, SSDD 80 Track, 9SPT. >Ports: > RS-232 and Centronics parallel >Bus: > Proprietary for external floppy or "other peripherals" I'm at work, 600 at home (awaiting new internal nicads...) but unless Tandy or Zenith (OEM) designed a floppy-port-based whatever, the external floppy port is a 1-for-1 pinout of a standard floppy interface... so you can hook up either a 3.5" or 5.25" floppy, provided it's 80 tracks or more. (That means I could hook up my 2" floppy, if I designed an interface cable, as it only has a 22-pin cable (all standard signals, plus power... just need to align the signals.) > One option ROM socket (accessible by removing > Multiplan) that holds BASIC or other ROMs >Power: > AC adapter, and built-in NiCd batteries AC adapter is 8V DC, 1.5A, IIRC. (hafta look when I get home...) >Modem: > Internal 300 baud >Operating System: > Proprietary ROM It's called HH/OS, (Hand-Held Operating System... tho I doubt you'd call the 600 a hand-held!) and it was produced by MicroSoft. >Applications: > Built-in System Manager, Word, Calendar, File, > Telcom and Multiplan >BASIC: > Optional ROM cartridge >Keyboard: > 72-key > >Pricing: > Base system $1599 > BASIC ROM $129 > 96K RAM upgrade $399 Didn't the Basic ROM originally cost $139.95, or did it go up from original? (I'll have to look that one up in my '89 catalog...) Tandy still sells the ROM, and they still want $120 for it!!!!! :-( HTH, "Merch" -- Roger Merchberger | If at first you don't succeed, Programmer, NorthernWay | nuclear warhead disarmament should zmerch(a)northernway.net | *not* be your first career choice.

28 years, 9 months

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Apple ][e software?

by BROBSTONA＠wartburg.edu

>You do need the system disks in order to make copies of disks. Maybe. For the longest time, I didn't have a DOS 3.3 System Master for my IIGS. I thought DOS 3.3 was a neat OS because you could make your own bootable disks easily. (You can with ProDOS too, but I didn't know that at the time.) I managed to get DOS 3.3 by finding a game or something that ran on DOS 3.3, halting it with Control-C to get to the Applesoft BASIC prompt, then using the file commands such as INIT to make a new disk. I can't remember if DOS 3.3 has a built-in command that will copy a disk... There's probably a way to do it. -- Andy Brobston brobstona(a)wartburg.edu ***NEW URL BELOW*** http://www.wartburg.edu/people/docs/personalPages/BrobstonA/home.html My opinions do not necessarily reflect the opinions of Wartburg College as a whole.

28 years, 9 months

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IMSAI 8080 production count

by dastar＠crl.com

Out of curiosity, anyone know how many IMSAIs were produced? Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass

28 years, 9 months

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Apple ][e software?

by thedm＠sunflower.com

You do need the system disks in order to make copies of disks. ---------- > From: Sam Ismail <dastar(a)crl.com> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Re: Apple ][e software? > Date: Wednesday, June 18, 1997 8:50 PM > > On Wed, 18 Jun 1997, Cord Coslor wrote: > > > Greetings: > > > > I just picked up an Apple ][e, monitor, disk drives, the whole works... > > even a mouse! But, I am wondering if someone out there might be able to > > sell me a copy of the Disk Operating System disks and maybe one or two > > (more?...) game disks? > > > > Please get in touch with me at the below address, e-mail, or phoen number, > > if you might have something like that which I could use to get the system > > going. > > Cord, forget about the system disks. You don't actually need them. The > Apple was the kind of computer where you could use it with or without > disks, although having software made it more useful. Each disk for the > apple is self-contained and has whatever DOS it needs to run it. Your > main concern right now is to get software for it, whatever that may be - > games, utilities, productivity, etc. Find the apple users group near you > (if there is one) or go to comp.sys.apple where you will find a ton of > information on how and where to obtain apple software. Its not hard to > find, there were literally tens of thousands of titles published for the > Apple ][. If you've never had an Apple before, you want to go out and > start collecting ssome of the games released for it, as there are some > fun titles. But as far as system disks, if you want to round out your > collection, then I guess you would want an original copy just to say you > have them, but every Apple I ever got was second-hand, and I already had > software from the previous apple I was upgrading from, and having the > original system disks was a moot point, as there were so many other more > useful disks to have. > > Sam > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- > Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass

28 years, 9 months

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Apple ][e software?

by BROBSTONA＠wartburg.edu

>> I'm wondering if there's a way to hack code to get it to copy without >> any System Master programs. > >Oh, sure. Just take a look at the description of the RWTS >(Read - write - track/sector) routines >in the Apple _DOS 3.3 Manual_. (You know, the one with the Disk ][ >and controller schematics.) You could probably come up with a >basic sector duplicator using a dozen lines of BASIC, sprinkled >liberally with PEEKs, POKEs, and CALLs. I could do it if I was at home, but I don't have all the manuals at college with me. So, I'm attempting to rely on memory (I'm pretty sure I've done something like this with RWTS before). I know a lot of times, instead of using the boring INIT command to format a new disk, I would use the RWTS version just for kicks. Too bad you really can't have as much fun with new computers. :) -- Andy Brobston brobstona(a)wartburg.edu ***NEW URL BELOW*** http://www.wartburg.edu/people/docs/personalPages/BrobstonA/home.html My opinions do not necessarily reflect the opinions of Wartburg College as a whole.

28 years, 9 months

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STacy Was: yo

by sinasohn＠crl.com

At 11:51 AM 6/17/97 -0700, you wrote: >IIRC it was a 1040ST motherboard in a laptop case. They come up for >sale once in a while in the Atari ST news groups. It seems to me The last STacy I saw sold went for about $750 -- about a year ago. They still get close to that; they're still popular with musicians. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn(a)crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 9 months

2
1
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AIM65

by sinasohn＠crl.com

At 12:12 AM 6/19/97 -0400, you wrote: >> If they're shipped to the bay area, I've got lots of boxes and packing >Uh, but what of us here on the other coast (where the devices are to start >with)? (I'm in the same area code, actually). Damn, but I wish I was Oh, sure, keep 'em there before distributing them. *Don't* send 'em across the country before sending 'em back. Go ahead, be normal. 8^) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn(a)crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 9 months

1
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Rockwell AIM 65 ad

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

28 years, 9 months

1
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Here are the Tandy 600 specs

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

Tandy 600 Introduced: October 28, 1985 CPU: 80C88 RAM: 32K expandable to 224K in 96K increments Display: Flip-up 80x16 LCD Storage: Internal 3.5" 360K floppy (storage only, not bootable) Ports: RS-232 and Centronics parallel Bus: Proprietary for external floppy or "other peripherals" One option ROM socket (accessible by removing Multiplan) that holds BASIC or other ROMs Power: AC adapter, and built-in NiCd batteries Modem: Internal 300 baud Operating System: Proprietary ROM Applications: Built-in System Manager, Word, Calendar, File, Telcom and Multiplan BASIC: Optional ROM cartridge Keyboard: 72-key Pricing: Base system $1599 BASIC ROM $129 96K RAM upgrade $399

28 years, 9 months

1
0
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Digilog 1500

by IVIE＠cc.usu.edu

> It seems every time I turn around, I find something else I either > haven't seen in a while, or don't know anything about it. In this case, > I picked up a brand new Digilog 1500 some number of years ago. It is > not on the "Big List" so does anyone know anything about this? Yeah, I know a little about Digilogs. Used to use one quite a bit; when I started working here, that was the CP/M machine of choice and we had a couple of them (the non-CP/M machine of choice were the Micro PDP-11s that DEC kept throwing at us). Someone had built a custom interface between one of them and a PC05 to punch paper tape to ship out to folks who did our wire-wrapping (the software to generate the paper tapes was either in FORTRAN on the PDP-11s or PL/I-80 on the Digilogs; shortly after I arrived we moved the FORTRAN version to the VAX-11/780 we had just installed (sigh; I was the only user of the 11/780 most of the time and I had a whole gigabyte of RM05s to play with; those were the days), so I never had to use the PL/I-80 version of the wirewrap software). We started picking up Televideo 802s and 803s about that time and migrated from the Digilog to them. No promises, but I _may_ have a CP/M boot disk for the thing and (depending on how recently my cow-orkers have cleaned their offices) I may be able to find a bit of technical info. Roger Ivie ivie(a)cc.usu.edu

28 years, 9 months

4
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Digilog 1500

by IVIE＠cc.usu.edu

> Hmm. One of my friends got a LOT of apple II stuff from a business that > went under. One of the things he got was an 8" CP/M disk. I'm gonna go > try to get my hands on it. (It said CP/M on it). It may be > destroyed/gone by now. This was a year or two ago, before I got > interested in old stuff... Any way to tell what system it's for without > being able to read it? You usually can't tell what system it's for even _with_ being able to read it. Roger Ivie ivie(a)cc.usu.edu

28 years, 9 months

1
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Atari XDM121 printer help

by jeffh＠unix.aardvarkol.com

I just recieved an Atari XDM121 printer, and it appears to work fine, though is in need of a new ribbon. It is a daisy wheel printer, 80 column, and is set up to connect to the Atari 8bit I/O bus. It appears to have been produced in the mid to late 80's since the style of the case and buttons on the front are the same as those of the Atari ST line of computers, and not the earlier 8bit machines (ie. the case is grey and the 3 buttons on the front panel have diagonal vertical lines). My question is about a third connector on the back (the other two being the 8bit I/O bus connectors). This third connector is a modular connector, similar to a RJ-11 phone jack, and it has just two contacts in it. Any ideas on what this might be for? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. Jeff jeffh(a)unix.aardvarkol.com -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Amiga enthusiast and collector of early, classic microcomputers http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757

28 years, 9 months

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Good Emulators & floppies (was: C64 CP/M carts (was:...))

by sinasohn＠crl.com

At 10:29 AM 6/19/97 -0400, you wrote: >"Evil Empire?" == Use the Farce, Duke! == First, if you have an Atari ST, >(and I think TOS 1.4 or above... getting my ST next weekend! Wheeeee! ;-) >it can read/write/format PC floppies. The atari ST could always (well, production models on, anyway) read/write PC floppies. Formatting, however, was initially a problem. It seems there's an unused field somewhere in the admin stuff on a pc floppy that Atari figured didn't matter. So they left it blank. But, for some reason, IBM machines needed some value in there. (I'm probably way oversimplifying, and making errors...) So floppies formatted on the atari worked fine on the atari, but if you wanted to use the floppy on both machines, you needed to format it on the PC (or use a third party formatter that fixed the problem.) Some later version of TOS (1.4?) fixed this. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn(a)crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 9 months

2
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'Orange Wall' FREE!

by kyrrin＠wizards.net

Ok, got another freebie for the group. I have the infamous DEC 'Orange Wall' worth of docs on VMS 4.whatever, at least a couple of big boxes worth. As I don't anticipate running VMS (heck, I don't own a big VAX!) anytime soon, I would rather see these go to someone who needs them. If no one speaks up, I'll recycle the innards and use the binders. First one who wants to visit me in Kent, WA can have 'em! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin(a)wizards.net) http://www.wizards.net/technoid "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."

28 years, 9 months

1
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Salvation Army (was RE: IMSAI 8080 production count)

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

| In my experience, the "volunteers" at the Salvation Army filtered out | anything that even resembled computers so that they could sell it | themselves. If it comes in a box and has a detach keyboard (i.e. looks | like a PC) it never gets to the showroom floor. Trust me.... I *know* Well, I don't think they're selling them themselves... if they have a policy (perhaps nationally) like the western washington Salvation Army headquarters in downtown Seattle, they auction off pallets of donated computer equipment to the for-profit thrift organizations such as Value Village, Thriftko and Shop & Save. Unfortunately, the Seattle headquarters holds the auctions not monthly, not weekly, but DAILY, and at 8:30 AM !!! Kai

28 years, 9 months

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Mark 8

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

| ---------- | From: James Willing | Subject: Re: Mark 8 | | On Wed, 18 Jun 1997, Marvin wrote: | | > I need another project :) and I was thinking about building the Mark 8 | > computer. Somewhere, I seem to recall that someone was having the board | > sets for this computer made up, does anyone out there know or remember | > who might be doing this? | | That would be me... If you get one of these up and running, I have a Scelbi book, "Space Wars for the 8008 Microprocessor" with full hex code listings... Kai

28 years, 9 months

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AIM65

by sinasohn＠crl.com

At 09:48 AM 6/18/97 -0700, you wrote: >negotiations for everyone. But I think it would be best if one person >did the negotiating and made the deal. It depends on what everyone I agree... We could have them shipped to one place and re-shipped from there; USPS should be around $3-5 if you're not in a hurry. (And I'm not worried about them becoming obsolete before I get mine...) If they're shipped to the bay area, I've got lots of boxes and packing materials I need to get rid of... (I'd volunteer to handle it, but I'm new to the mailing list, and if it were me, I would trust me yet.) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn(a)crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 9 months

6
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VIC stuff, ComputerSpace, and SuperPET update!

by foxnhare＠goldrush.com

From: Paul E Coad <pcoad(a)crl.com> Subject: Weekend Acquisitions III >...Get money. Go back to thrift. The VIC was still there. >Bought the box of stuff for $5. This included VIC-20 (still untested), >CN2 (my 3rd!), 3K, 8K, and 16K memory carts, super expander cart (with >manual), Forth Cart with box and manual, programmer's aid cart, machine >language monitor cart, 7 cart games, and a few cassette games. (think Homer Simpson Voice): Mmmmm Utilities! I have about 20 or so various Commodore datasettes, from a couple butchered Sanyo decks Commodore stuck in the first PETs to a clone one. Almost tempted to pick up another today -along with the 64 it was being sold with- >Saturday noon >Went back to the sale and met up with Uncle Roger and his girlfriend. >We had an excellent lunch. Swapped a few stories. Went home and >explained to my wife why I NEED 2 more Sun keyboards. Fortunately for me my wife understands, as she has read, it is easier to get along with your spouse if each of you have a money-pit hobby, hers is mainly knitting, spinning, and fabrics, and mine classic computers. I understand when she needs that third sewing machine and she understands the gleam in my eye as a snag another 4040 dual drive. >--pec -------------------- From: Kai Kaltenbach <kaikal(a)MICROSOFT.com> Subject: RE: PONG >...Several years before Pong, Nolan created a more >sophisticated game called Computer Space, built by Nutting and >Associates. >Computer Space was the first arcade video game. >Trust me, I own all of them. >Kai I have been curious what was Computer Space like????? I keep reading about it, but no good descriptions. What were the controls, the layout, the game play, etc. ------------ SuperPET update! Well I was a little bit conservative in my estimation of daughterboards on the SuperPET, the count is now three (well technically four, one of the daughterboards has a daughterboard itself.) I discovered the bottom-most daughterboard seemed to be loose so I had to do a partial diassembly to get to it. It would seem that the bottom-most daughterboard plugs directly into the 6502 socket of the 8032 motherboard, and that daughterboard was not seated in the socket (which is raised with about 4 stacked chip sockets!) Continuing on, I discover that also some of the pins on the bottom of the daughterboard were bent and *sigh* some broke upon attempt to get them back in line (they should be replaceable, but not too easily.) For now, I decided to re-assemble it (and all the various cross-connections and such). Also, I had gotten word back from the person who has a SuperPET and set the switches to work as an expanded 8032. I now can get the 'jingle' sound and a screen full of garbage characters! (Not a complete victory, but a very good amount of progress here!) Plus, the gentleman does have some of the disks: >Yes, I have most of the Waterloo software stuff, for sure the assembly >stuff, the Pascal possibly, the Fortran for sure, and possibly the >BASIC. I may even have the Cobol stuff... I really don't have the time or space to do much more presently, (one of these decades when I retire or win the lottery) but will work on getting a set of the disks, for future use. This is so much fun, my Commodore collection is getting there! Larry Anderson -- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Visit our web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/ Call our BBS (Silicon Realms BBS 300-2400 baud) at: (209) 754-1363 -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-

28 years, 9 months

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Aim65 (fwd)

by dastar＠crl.com

Here's some info from the guy about the AIM65s. They sound like nice units. Marvin, please e-mail me so we aren't stepping on each other's toes. Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 13:02:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Mikeooo1(a)aol.com To: dastar(a)crl.com Subject: Re: Aim65 Dear Sam, They are all in new working condition.The beauty about the Aim 65 is that it was a single board computer which was self contained in that it had its display,printer,and memory all mounted on its board so that peripheral attachments weren't necessary.Yes,it comes with a keyboard and power supply also.I developed a plastic enclosure and metal base and ROM board for the system so the keyboard and power supply could be housed with the Aim in a compact unit and programs could be burned onto eproms which would seat in the ROM board rather than rely on tape storage which involves a recorder hookup and would be quite slow. Best Regards Mike

28 years, 9 months

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Aim 65

by sinasohn＠crl.com

>One question that does come up is how to handle the repackaging and >remailing assuming we can buy them as a bulk deal. I have access to a I'm sure there will be enough people in the bay area to warrant a dinner get-together to distribute a bulk package. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn(a)crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 9 months

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Radofin Aquarius on AuctionWeb

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

FYI, Somebody's got a Radofin Aquarius on AuctionWeb: http://www2.ebay.com/aw/itemfast.cgi?item=elv642 Kai

28 years, 9 months

1
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Aim 65

by fmc＠reanimators.org

Sam Ismail <dastar(a)crl.com> writes: > 1. What is an Aim65? It's a singleboard 6502 system/eval kit from Rockwell, sort of like the MOS/CBM KIM-1, only different. 6502, some RAM, some ROM (sockets?), 20-char LED display, QWERTY keyboard, cash-register printer, a couple of bus connectors off the left side of the board. Actually, I'm not sure if the display, keyboard, and printer were there on all of them but I remember them being sold with those in the late 1970s/early 1980s. > 2. What is a good price to offer to buy/sell one? A few years ago I paid $5 for one at Foothill. It had apparently been OEMd into a nutrition advising system of some sort, as that is what seemed to be in the ROMs and it came in a cheap plastic case that pretty much hid the guts (just sturdy enough to be a frame for the AIM-65 and the power supply). No documentation, either for the AIM-65 itself or for the nutrition software. I don't recall for sure, but would expect that an AIM-65 from Rockwell would have come with something other than the nutrition software in the ROM sockets. Somewhere I do have an AIM-65 manual but it is (like most of my collection at present) in storage. -Frank McConnell

28 years, 9 months

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AIM65

by dastar＠crl.com

On Wed, 18 Jun 1997, Glenn Roberts wrote: > i'm interested in one of the Aim 65's. $20 seems like a fair offering > price. you mentioned a bulk offer but then you mentioned his email address > so wasn't clear if you guys were trying to coordinate this or let everyone > deal directly with him. let me know how this pans out. tx. I didn't want to seem like a slick willy trying to take over the negotiations for everyone. But I think it would be best if one person did the negotiating and made the deal. It depends on what everyone wants. If it's OK with everyone else, I or Marvin can do the deal, then let everyone know. Otherwise, if everyone wants to take a stab at it themselves, that's fine. I think the easiest for all parties is to offer a bulk buyout at a set price. I think everyone will come away winners. Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass

28 years, 9 months

2
1
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Cleaning Plastic

by gmast＠polymail.cpunix.calpoly.edu

I apologize if this is a repeat question but I can't seem to find the previous post. What were the solutions to removing yellowing from the plastic cases? I bought a printer that looks terrible. Not sure what caused it so any suggestions helpful at this point. thanks, Greg

28 years, 9 months

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AIM65

by BigLouS＠aol.com

Count me in for $20 + shipping. Lou

28 years, 9 months

3
2
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old memory boards?

by mpsayler＠cs.utexas.edu

Hi. I'm a small-time collector interested in older unix machines, though I think I'd be more interested in micros if I had more room than my apartment provides. I was picking up a load of Sun VME-bus equipment today and ran across some memory boards. These are definitely not for the suns, neither multi-bus nor vmebus. The boards are perhaps 12"x16" and are populated with what I presume to be memory chips (AMD 21-17559-01 / 8333EMM) in 16 banks of 9 chips each. The connector along the back has 6 distinct edge-card pieces, with 18 contacts per connector per side. All of the boards appear to be more or less of the same nature, but one is manufactured by Motorola, and 4 have digital markings. Along the back of three of the digital boards, there are two metal protrusions. One says AM, the other M8210. The other digital board is AZ M8210, and it has a lot of Mostek chips that I would guess are 16kbit 300ns chips . . Does anyone know what machine used these boards? The sun equipment I salvaged was sadly without CPU board or power supply but I did manage to grab 2 8mb boards and a bevy of SCSI and SMD controllers. I guess I can add it to my collection of old sun hardware that needs drives to become operational. Do SMD drives frequently show up at swap meets, etc? matt -- /* Matt Sayler -- mpsayler(a)cs.utexas.edu -- Austin, Texas (512)457-0086 -- http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/mpsayler Have you ever imagined a world with no hypothetical situations? */

28 years, 9 months

4
3
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Mark 8

by allisonp＠world.std.com

> > If you get one of these up and running, I have a Scelbi book, "Space > Wars for the 8008 Microprocessor" with full hex code listings... I've designed using that chip and still have my MCS-8 microcomputer set manual from intel If you need help. FYI another old ram chip that fits with that CPU is 2101 (256x4). Allison

28 years, 9 months

1
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Apple /// booting and Franklin question

by BigLouS＠aol.com

In a message dated 97-06-18 00:54:51 EDT, bill(a)booster.bothell.washington.edu (Bill Whitson) wrote: << - Does anyone consider the Franklin Ace 1000 Apple II clone very > collectible? Yes. It was a legitimate alternative to the Apple II+ at a lower price. I designed my first database on a 1000 and found it to be 100% compatible with the II+ (it should have been since they copied the II+ roms) and very reliable. I think that the Franklin line as well as the Laser series of clones belongs in any Apple II collection. Lou

28 years, 9 months

1
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Digital Controls Inc. Training Cartridges?

by sinasohn＠crl.com

At 12:22 PM 6/17/97 -0700, you wrote: >1", "Lotus", "dBase II", "Wordstar", "IBM PC", and "Multimate". Anyone >out there know what these are and what they go to? Thanks! Well, "IBM PC" helps date it, as does "dBase II". Has to be early-to-mid 80's. I would guess, off the top of my head, PCjr cartridges? Do I win the prize? --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn(a)crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 9 months

1
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AIM65

by MPritchard＠ensemble.net

Count me in for $20 plus shipping! Ill be @ E3, so no responces for a few days. > -----Original Message----- > From: Sam Ismail [SMTP:dastar@crl.com] > Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 1997 12:34 AM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: AIM65 > > > Ok, here's the deal. Marvin & I are both in contact with a guy who > says > he has 14 AIM65 units. Hopefully you all have been paying attention > and > have read the messages describing what this is. Marvin & I are of > course > both interested in buying one, and we dicussed the possibility that > others in the discussion would be interested as well. We feel that if > > enough of us get together and offer this guy a bulk buy-out, we can > get a > good price from him. Marvin & I are talking about $20 a piece as of > now. If this is of interest to anyone, I can give you his e-mail > address > and you can ask specific questions, but make sure you mention you are > a > part of this one-shot buyout so that we get a good deal. I think > first > we should get a count of who is all interested and then approach the > guy. He's in New Jersey, and I don't think shipping should be more > than > $5 per unit. > > His e-mail address is Mikeooo1(a)aol.com and he left his phone number > for me: > (201) 331-1313. > > Please reply if you are interested in going in together on this. > > Sam > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > --------- > Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, > Writer, Jackass >

28 years, 9 months

1
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Apple /// booting and Franklin question

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

I think I saw this go by once before on the group, but - - How do you get an Apple /// to boot from the ProFile? Also: - Does anyone consider the Franklin Ace 1000 Apple II clone very collectible? thanks Kai

28 years, 9 months

4
3
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EBCDIC

by rector＠usa.net

Sam, I don't own any computers that use EBCDIC, but I use them every day at work. EBCDIC - extended binary coded decimal interchange code is the character set used on most (if not all) IBM mainframes and midrange systems. (IBM S/390, S/36, S/38, AS/400 etc.) This set has its roots in punched cards (and prior) and really makes more sense when viewed >from that perspective vs. that of the way things are today. ASCII - American National Standard Code for Information Interchange. Back when I was in college, an instructor stated it this way: (Speaking about the need for a uniform way to share info across machines. "There are two ways to obtain a standard in the industry. The first is to get a big commitee together and have all parties involved agree on what it should be (ASCII). Or, be the largest company in the industry, do it your own way and force everyone else to adopt your way of thinking. Dan ------------------- Sam Ismail wrote: DOes anyone have a computer which uses the EBCDIC character set, rather than ASCII (did I get the acronym right? what does it stand for anyway)? Just curious. Sam

28 years, 9 months

1
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EBCDIC

by sinasohn＠crl.com

At 11:41 PM 6/16/97 -0700, you wrote: >DOes anyone have a computer which uses the EBCDIC character set, rather >than ASCII (did I get the acronym right? what does it stand for anyway)? My HP3000 can write mag tapes in EBCDIC. EBCDIC: Extended Binary Coded Decimal Interchange Code (From the Acronym Database on the 'web.) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn(a)crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 9 months

2
1
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IMSAI 8080

by groberts＠mitre.org

At 11:57 PM 6/17/97 -0400, Les wrote: >If someone has got a reasonably priced IMSAI in the Philly area to sell, >then fine... but I just don't see it hapening any time soon... hang in there. i actually saw an industrial type IMSAI chassis for sale at the Frederick (MD) Hamfest last weekend - only a couple hours drive from Philly so these things *do* exist on the east coast! i think he was asking $50 or $60. i believe he left without selling it so it could reappear. it wasn't complete but could have been a good starting point for an IMSAI collector (it had several CPU boards and some other stuff). of course without the front panel it's not as visually interesting as the original IMSAI. btw: he said he has bought this as part of a bigger package that included an original IMSAI and an Altair - both of which he fixed up and later sold! - glenn

28 years, 9 months

1
0
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Aim 65

by dastar＠crl.com

1. What is an Aim65? 2. What is a good price to offer to buy/sell one? Thanks! Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass

28 years, 9 months

3
2
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Old computers

by jimw＠agora.rdrop.com

Another target of opportunity for claim or rescue! -jim --- begin forwarded message --- >Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 13:15:56 -0500 (CDT) >From: Steve Jones <sjones(a)knox.edu> >X-Sender: sjones(a)knoxadm.admin.knet.edu >To: jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com >Cc: Nancy Taflinger <ntafling(a)knox.knox.edu> >Subject: Old computers >X-Status: > >We have a PDP-11/44 and a VAX 750 that are now parked in a corner, along >with a fair amount of documentation, system tapes. There are about 5 >RM02s, a tape drive, mux's, ... > >Also have a couple old DecMates. > >I would qualify them all as "free for the hauling", with the only concern >being a need to wipe some of the data on the PDP. Any interest or know >of anyone who might have? > >Steven A. Jones, Director >Computer Center, K-80 E-mail: sjones(a)knox.edu >Knox College Voice: (309) 341-7356 >Galesburg, Illinois 61401 Fax: (309) 341-7718 --- end of forwarded message --- --- jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174

28 years, 9 months

1
0
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HELP!

by FAIAZMC＠hsd.utc.com

Does anyone have any info on where I can find accessories and parts for my old PC8500 (NEC) laptop? Thanks Mike

28 years, 9 months

2
1
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Digital Controls Inc. Training Cartridges?

by jscarter＠worldnet.att.net

At 07:22 PM 6/17/97 +0000, you wrote: >A while back, I "saved" some cartridges from being tossed. The label >says "Digital Controls, Learning Center, Multiplan (title varies >depending on cartridge), Registerd Trademark of Microsoft Corporations, >Copyright Digital Controls, Inc." The other titles I have are "Preview >1", "Lotus", "dBase II", "Wordstar", "IBM PC", and "Multimate". Anyone >out there know what these are and what they go to? Thanks! My first guess would have been an IBM PCjr because it has the only cartridge version of Lotus I've ever heard of. But Wordstar was definitely disk-based for the PCjr, in fact it had it's own version, Wordstarjr. Microsoft Multiplan came on cartridge for the TI99/4A, but I've never heard of the others being on cartridge format for that system. What are the dimensions of the cartridges and how many pins? Do the labels looks commercially viable, or could they be test/demo/proto labels? James jscarter(a)worldnet.att.net

28 years, 9 months

3
3
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yo

by sinasohn＠crl.com

At 11:39 PM 6/16/97 -0700, you wrote: >On this site was mention of the STacy laptop, an Atari ST laptop >(presumably). Anyone have or know anything about these? Sounds >interesting, and I vaguely remember hearing about it years ago. The STacy is, I guess, a laptop, but it's one of those where you need a good sized lap. Still, a nice, compact machine, with built-in midi -- hence it's popularity with touring musicians. I think it was the Arsenio Hall show where the band leader had a STacy prominently displayed on stage (and working). If you're thinking of a true laptop, it's probably the ST Book, a notebook like computer that was ST compatible. Never came out, though, AFAIK. I've got a "Midi Magazine" (or something like that) that featured the ST Book on the cover. Shame that it didn't make it out (would've even been better as a Falcon-book) because it would have been one hell of a musician's tool. (My ST's and Falcons are *not* in my collection because they're still (in theory -- oh, if only I didn't have to work for a living) in use in my studio.) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn(a)crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 9 months

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Apple /// booting and Franklin question

by thedm＠sunflower.com

To use boot from a profile, you really can't you use a disk that boots the profiler. It's not really booting from it, but it is. I don't really understand it, just that the disk that came with my apple/// does it ---------- > From: Kai Kaltenbach <kaikal(a)MICROSOFT.com> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Apple /// booting and Franklin question > Date: Tuesday, June 17, 1997 6:35 PM > > I think I saw this go by once before on the group, but - > > - How do you get an Apple /// to boot from the ProFile? > > Also: > > - Does anyone consider the Franklin Ace 1000 Apple II clone very > collectible? > > thanks > > Kai

28 years, 9 months

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PCjr questions and TI 99/4A tidbit

by marcw＠lightside.com

> Is that true that there is a lots of add ons for this PCjr? I would > like to seperate the video to a proper video such as VGA card so it > would not hog up the main memory and boost it to 640k. Finally is > there a add on that allows me to plug a DMA chip in to speed up the > floppy? It is nice compact computer! What I planning is to make this > PCjr more of an real XT with SLOTS than a just a cheap > vanilla-favored PCjr. Where's is good source to find these parts? > PC Enterprises has a PCjr catalogue that they sent me for some reason. I used to get their Tandy parts catalogue. Assuming they're not going out of business call 'em up at 800-922-7257. They're on the east coast and keep banker's hours it seems. Best to get them in the morning. The catalogue I have is from '95 and is 111 pages thick with index. I'll email you later with the items you asked about with descriptions and prices. Marc -- >> ANIME SENSHI << Marc D. Williams marcw(a)lightside.com marc.williams(a)mb.fidonet.org IRC Nick: Senshi Channel: #dos #IrcHelp http://www.agate.net/~tvdog/internet.html -- DOS Internet Tools

28 years, 9 months

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Apple Lisa parts -- Get 'em while you can...

by jimw＠agora.rdrop.com

Ok, here's a twist. A 'rescue' of computer parts rather than whole machines? Anyone else think this might be worthwhile? -jim --- begin forwarded message --- Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 04:13:37 GMT From: Tom Stepleton <ude.ltsuw.icstra%telpetss.REVERSE_TO_MAIL_ME(a)nac.no> Newsgroups: comp.society.folklore Subject: Apple Lisa parts -- Get 'em while you can... I realize that this may not be of general interest. I apologize in advance to those I might bore or annoy... This is probably nothing to be excited about, but... A friend has recently informed me that Sam Neulinger of New York's DAFAX is sending some Apple Lisa parts in rather poor condition to the recycler by afternoon (EST) tomorrow. AFAIK, they comprise mostly of items like video boards, power supplies, and some Macintosh XL hard disks, all in various states of disrepair but still good for salvage or fixing-up. There are probably various other tarnished gems as well. If anyone would like to have these parts, I am sure that Mr. Neulinger would just as soon sell them to a hobbyist as to a scrap dealer. Keep in mind that it is probably not in his interest to sell these items piecemeal -- any buyer would have to purchase these items bulk. Also keep in mind that a buyer would not have to buy EVERYTHING. So, it's up to anyone who is interested and has the cash. I have neither the money nor the space to house these items. Whatever; either they end up under a soldering iron or in a recycling bin. DAFAX will still sell working Lisa parts, but will not maintain power supplies any longer as it is not profitable for them. DAFAX's number is (718)746-8220. Thanks, --Tom TI-82: :For(A,0,9):0>D:For(B,0,A):A nCr B>C:Text(6A,D,C) :D+5(int log C+1)>D:End:End --- end of forwarded message --- --- jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174

28 years, 9 months

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Digital Controls Inc. Training Cartridges?

by thedm＠sunflower.com

any chance for a PC Jr? maybe a TI/99? ---------- > From: Marvin <marvin(a)rain.org> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Digital Controls Inc. Training Cartridges? > Date: Tuesday, June 17, 1997 2:22 PM > > A while back, I "saved" some cartridges from being tossed. The label > says "Digital Controls, Learning Center, Multiplan (title varies > depending on cartridge), Registerd Trademark of Microsoft Corporations, > Copyright Digital Controls, Inc." The other titles I have are "Preview > 1", "Lotus", "dBase II", "Wordstar", "IBM PC", and "Multimate". Anyone > out there know what these are and what they go to? Thanks!

28 years, 9 months

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TRS-80 Differences?

by IVIE＠cc.usu.edu

> In checking through the TRS-80 Model I computers, I noticed two > different catalog numbers, 26-1001 and 26-1006. I also noticed that one > of the 26-001 computer has a sticker saying "Note - This unit has the > lower case modification kit installed (Cat. No. 26-1104.) Since most of > these machines have been previously owned by early computer users, > needless to say most have been modified in one way or another. Anyone > know the differences between the different catalog numbers? Thanks. I don't suppose one number is for Level I BASIC and the other is for Level II BASIC? Roger Ivie ivie(a)cc.usu.edu

28 years, 9 months

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yo

by dastar＠crl.com

A couple things: First, if you are an Atari fan, or not, either way, go check out: http://members.aol.com/cvendel/vaporware.html An EXCELLENT page with lots of photos of unreleased Atari prototypes. Great history. A great site. On this site was mention of the STacy laptop, an Atari ST laptop (presumably). Anyone have or know anything about these? Sounds interesting, and I vaguely remember hearing about it years ago. Also, the Aquarius prototype photos on: http://www.webcom.com/~makingit/bluesky/aquarius.html#aquarius2 are startling! That would have been a most awesome computer! I'm biased since I grew up on the Aquarius. But man, what a nice classic that would've made. Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass

28 years, 9 months

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Good Old Days

by foxvideo＠mail.wincom.net

Sunday AM, while waiting for Windows 95 to boot on my trusty Hewitt-Rand 386-33, I found myself browsing through a copy of the June 1982 edition of Creative Computing. Editorial content included an evaluation of the Osborne I, an article on "Mass Storage Options" in which the writer encourages readers to forsake audio cassettes and advance to the 5 1/4" floppy drives, or even (gasp) one of the Winchester hard drives which will store five or even ten megs of data! (An advertisement on page 189 quotes $3339.00 for five megs capacity.) On page 116 Osmo A. Wiio, professor of communications, deplores the unreadability of computer documentation. Ads offer floppies for $ 1.90, 48K of ram for your Atari for $ 299.00, and on the inside rear cover a young looking William Shatner is flogging the Vic 20. "Under $ 300.00, the best computer value in the world today. The only computer you'll need for years to come." Well, Win95 is up on the 386, got to go. Cheers Charlie Fox

28 years, 9 months

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Good Old Days

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

Tigerdirect has 386-to-486 upgrade CPUs (for DX or SX) for $19.95 Kai > ---------- > From: Mr. Self Destruct > Reply To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu > Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 1997 10:20 AM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: Good Old Days > > On Tue, 17 Jun 1997, Charles E. Fox wrote: > > > Well, Win95 is up on the 386, got to go. > > > > Cheers > > Charlie Fox > > OOOH, That's GOTTA hurt! You poor sadistic soul! > > Les > >

28 years, 9 months

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Apple /// stuff (was: Re: This weekend's haul)

by thedm＠sunflower.com

I have messed with a few apple/// drives, and yes, you can recalibrate them the same way. Excessivly noisey drives in my experience though is not always a bad floppy drive, but rather there is a C-clip retainer that keeps the rotor spindle at the correct height. This C clip is on top of the spindle just below the plastic disk that supports the bottom of the disk. When this clip is missing the flywheel at the bottom of the drives falls down about 1/4" and drags on the bottom of the case. If you don't see this clip, you can remove the drive and sit it on it's side and it may boot. At least then you know if the hunt for a compatable C clip is worth it. ---------- > From: Sam Ismail <dastar(a)crl.com> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Re: Apple /// stuff (was: Re: This weekend's haul) > Date: Friday, June 13, 1997 11:29 AM > > On Fri, 13 Jun 1997, Doug Spence wrote: > > > I noticed that the cable that leads to the external floppy port has been > > badly crushed between the cast iron frame and the metal sheet that holds > > the motherboard, though. I'll have to remove it to see if any of the > > wires have been broken. :/ > > My internal floppy seems to be hosed. I can't boot any disks off of it. > Some bgin to boot but then go to error, others invoke this horrendous > recalibration that never ends. I assume the drive head is dirty and the > speed needs calibrating. I wonder if I can calibrate this drive like one > can the Disk ][? > > > I do need the system disks. I didn't get them with the machine. I wish > > there was some way to transfer them electronically, though... which is why > > I asked if there was a way of getting an Apple ][ to access a ///'s disks. > > I suppose the ///'s drive is double-sided, though. > > Doug, if you want I can e-mail NuFX (ShrinkIt) images to you. This would > be the quickest way for you to get them. You'd need an Apple // running > shrinkit of course. The disk format between the // and /// is identical. > > > Sam > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- > Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass

28 years, 9 months

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PONG

by jscarter＠worldnet.att.net

At 09:28 PM 6/16/97 PST8PDT, you wrote: > >So when did the original Pong make its appearance. > >Marc Atari's Pong the Coin-op in Nov '72 Atari's Home Pong Console in late '74 Other videogame milestones of note: Higinbotham's Oscilloscope Tennis in Oct '58 Russell's PDP-1 Spacewar in '62 Baer's Cable TV game system in '68 Nutting's Computer Space Coin-op in '71 Magnovox's Odyssey Console in May '72 James jscarter(a)worldnet.att.net

28 years, 9 months

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Victor 9000

by IVIE＠cc.usu.edu

> I was running a 8086 system in 1980 that clearly blow the doors off a PC. > It was 8086 not 8088 at 5.0mhz and 16bit wide memory using standard > multibuss cards. By late 81 that machine was 8mhz, and 82 brought a copy of > PC dos to it. Early MSdos could be configured like CP/M. The PC was slow, > clunky, closed and expensive! By time the XT arrived still slow, clunky and > expensive there are several S100 and other systems that were very fast > 6/8/10 mhz 8088 or 8086 systems. I've been taking a look at Caldera's OpenDOS (aka Novell DOS 7, aka DR-DOS), and it still looks quite friendly to running on strange hardware. Other than a few references to our friend the A20 hack sprinkled throughout the non-BIOS (BIOS as in CBIOS or IBMBIO.SYS, not ROM BIOS) parts of a few modules, I've not run across any glaring PCness in the system. At first glance, it also looks like A20 stuff is set up by the BIOS initialization routine. In short, it should still be possible to configure DR-DOS for non-PC hardware. I can't speak for MS-DOS because sources aren't available... Of course, you will get no sympathy from the folks on the OpenDOS mailing lists if you talk about running DOS on non-PC hardware; they seem to be young enough to have never encountered the wide variety of machines that existed before the PC took over the world. Roger Ivie ivie(a)cc.usu.edu

28 years, 9 months

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Good Old Days

by allisonp＠world.std.com

> Sunday AM, while waiting for Windows 95 to boot on my trusty > Hewitt-Rand 386-33, I found myself browsing through a copy of the June 198 > edition of Creative Computing. Creative computing was always about 2-3 years behind or worse. > (gasp) one of the Winchester hard drives which will store five or even te > megs of data! (An advertisement on page 189 quotes $3339.00 for five megs nov/dec 1980 _s100 Microsystems_ MOrrow designs (thinker toys) DISCUS 26mb hard dive system_ $4995 (ithaca) Intersystems DPX-2a (z8002 16 bit cpu) basise machine $4795 Northstar* Horizon-2 (DD controller) z80 4 mhz 32k ram (assembled/tested) $2699 Allison

28 years, 9 months

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PONG

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

Pong is not the first video game. Nolan Bushnell, who later founded Atari, did Pong. Several years before Pong, Nolan created a more sophisticated game called Computer Space, built by Nutting and Associates. Computer Space was the first arcade video game. Atari home Pong was the first home video game. Magnavox Odyssey1 was the first home video game system. Trust me, I own all of them. Kai > -----Original Message----- > From: e.tedeschi [SMTP:e.tedeschi@ndirect.co.uk] > Sent: Sunday, June 15, 1997 9:20 AM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: PONG > > Doeas anybody have a photograph of "PONG" the first video game ever? > Or > where I can find one? I have never seen it and I don't know how it > looks > like so I will not be able to recognize it if I ever bump into one. > > Thanks > > enrico > -- > ================================================================ > Enrico Tedeschi, 54, Easthill Drive, BRIGHTON BN41 2FD, U.K. > tel/fax +(0)1273 701650 (24 hours) or 0850 104725 mobile > website <http://www.ndirect.co.uk/~e.tedeschi> > ================================================================ > visit Brighton: <http://www.brighton.co.uk/tourist/welcome.htm> >

28 years, 9 months

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