- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 09:45 PM 1/12/98 -0800, you wrote: >> No handles??? 'Tain't a Portable then! Whups, forgot the 8^) >Hmmm, maybe having handles isn't the best criteria for determining if a >machine is portable. Hmmm... Panasonic Sr. Partner: Handle Apple Mac Portable: Handle HP LS/12: Handle Altima 2: Handle Good Composer: Handel Amstrad PPC640: Handle Bondwell B310+: Handle Osborne 01: Handle (Sorry, couldn't resist.) >It seems that portable machines are those which the manufacturer built >to be easily picked up (in some cases without grunting too loudly) and moved >to another location to be used. This holds for suitable values of "easily". Yep. >Yes, Roger. I know you were kidding. Aw, shucks. I thought I had ya fooled. 8^) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 3 months

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Amstrads in the US

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 07:55 PM 1/12/98 -0600, you wrote: >>1) I took pictures of a bunch of systems: >> Amstrad PPC640 >I didn't know these were available in the US. I just hauled one back >(PPC512) from France last week and I thought that I had a very original >portable (even though it got pretty heavy waiting for customs;) >Were there any other of the Amstrad marketted in the US like the CPC series? Well, Amstrad wasn't really big over here, but they did sell a few machines. Other Amstrad's I've got (second hand) are the PDA600 "PenPad" and the PC-20 (sort of a CoCo-ish/Atari ST-ish one-piece PC). btw, there was another PPC640 that sold on eBay this weekend, but it was complete, with power supplies, software, and a really neat case. I didn't get it, though. 8^( --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 3 months

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Pricing in shops

by higginbo＠netpath.net

At 08:32 PM 1/13/98 -0600, you wrote: >Y'know, I once saw an honest-to-god IBM stand-alone plasma monitor in a >surplus shop. 17" I think (or thereabouts). Pretty neat, but priced a >little high. That's one thing I hate about thrift shops: A monitor is a monitor to them. I've seen monos, cgas, egas, and vgas sitting right next to each other, all with the same price on them. (Needless to say I grabbed the VGAs!) -John Higginbotham- -limbo.netpath.net-

28 years, 3 months

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Firsts

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 10:56 AM 1/12/98 -0500, Allison(tm) wrote: >I gotta get that sex change. It happens it's MS Allison and I don't have Oh no! It's the new MicroSoft Allison! No more intelligent posts about non-MS computers/software Arrrgghh! 8^) (Sorry, couldn't resist!) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 3 months

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What Transciever for a VAXstation II/RC

by healyzh＠ix.netcom.com

I've been doing some research and I've learned that it is possible to do a network boot of at least some VAXen using a properly configured Linux server with a NFS mountable version of NetBSD. I'm currently in the process of FTPing the necessary software and hope to get my VAXstation 2000 up tonite using this method. I would also like to be able to boot my VAXstation II/RC this way, but I need a Ethernet Transciever for it. According to my Hardware manual for this system (I love actually having documentation on something), I need a H4000 Transceiver. What I'm wondering is if I can just go dig up a generic 10Base-2 transceiver and have it work? Eventually I want to get at least the II/RC up and running VMS, but this sounds like a good temporary measure to run the hardware though some paces, so to speak while I'm getting a Hard Drive and VMS on media that I can use. Besides I want to get a copy of NetBSD transfered onto TK50's. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | | For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html |

28 years, 3 months

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ISIS-II - what to do with it?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<I got a line on an Intel ISIS-II development system with lots of <accessories. What do I do with it if I get it? Richard, I'd suggest computing and developing. It will run two OSs ISIS and CP/M and it's pretty neat as they are fairly old to say the least. If it has the programmers commonly used and the Paper tape it's a reall winner! Allison

28 years, 3 months

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Firsts

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<The 4051 BASIC is AWFUL. Example: the syntax of the IF statement is IF <condition THEN line number. Similarly the 4052 and 4054. The really 20 IF A=5 THEN 100 That is standard Dartmouth BASIC! at least it has been since 1969 when I started programming with it. Allison

28 years, 3 months

2
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ISIS-II - what to do with it?

by rcini＠email.msn.com

I got a line on an Intel ISIS-II development system with lots of accessories. What do I do with it if I get it? Rich Cini/WUGNET Charter ClubWin! Member MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking

28 years, 3 months

3
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Firsts

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

> Personal Computer: IBM called the 5100 a personal computer and also a >portable computer. I think they called it a personal computer since it did Announced 9/9/75 according to Haddock. He also mentions a "Geniac" ca. 1956: "Sold primarily as a toy, this type of machine was arguably the first electronic digital personal computer." And in '71, "The Busicom desktop electronic calculator, based on the new Intel 4004, was introduced. This was the first computing device to employ a microprocessor." 1973 saw the Scelbi 8H, and 1974 saw the Mark 8. Also in '74, Xerox came up with the Alto which could make a bid for the first personal computer. 1975 was the year of the Altair 8800 (ann. january) and the Processor Technology SOL (April). Later MOS Tech came out with the KIM-1. > Portable Computer: IBM also called the 5100 a "portable computer". I >guess they considered it a portable computer because everything was in one >unit. It was certainly NOT portable in the sense that one person could >pick it up and move it around. It's huge and it's heavy and there aren't >even any handles on it. Not to mention the fact that it has an unprotected No handles??? 'Tain't a Portable then! --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 3 months

5
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ISIS-II - what to do with it?

by IVIE＠cc.usu.edu

> Actually, I've always wanted to get my hands on one of those heathkit > gibbyframmers (with the Moto6800 CPU, six digit 7-segment LED display and > hex keyboard, etc. etc.) as I used one in college and had a barrel o' > monkeys interfacing things to it 'cause it was so easy. I have the short-lived low-end version of that unit in the cardboard box. I saw it in the Heathkit catalog, scraped some money together and bought it. I didn't see it in the next catalog. Mine is serial #8. This version of the unit only has half the memory of the one with the protoboard on the front: 256 bytes instead of 512 bytes. It also doesn't have the protoboard: just a keypad and six-digit hex display. There is a spot for an expansion connector on the inside, but I never did anything with it (I tried, though; I ordered a pair of 1Kx4 SRAMs from Radio Shack. 6 months later, _one_ of my two SRAMs arrived. The guy at Radio Shack didn't understand why I didn't want to buy just the one. The other SRAM never did arrive). I've not fired it up recently, but it worked last time I did. Roger Ivie ivie(a)cc.usu.edu

28 years, 3 months

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Recording data to a strand of wire?

by zmerch＠northernway.net

At 04:00 PM 1/13/98 -0800, you wrote: >Long before anyone glued rust to a strip of plastic and called it recording >tape, audio was recorded on spools of wire. > >Whatever you can record audio on, you can record data on. Wire recorders >are actually incredibly durable, and until recently, the airplane 'black >box' cockpit voice & data recorders were wire recorders. There are a ton of >them still in service. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if that's what the >guy had at the flea market. Well, to slightly shift the paradigm from classic computers to classic TV, I saw a voice wire recorder on Hogan's Heroes -- it was made up to look like a sewing basket. At first, I thought -- uh, yea, right! -- but then I thought about it and it's no different than a record album, but in a different form factor. On the show, they spliced the wire to reformat a message on the wire... do you know what type of wire was used on these types of voice/data recorders, and how would you splice them? (oh, and could you re-record over a previously used piece of wire?) Just curious, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger Merchberger | Why does Hershey's put nutritional Programmer, NorthernWay | information on their candy bar wrappers zmerch(a)northernway.net | when there's no nutritional value within?

28 years, 3 months

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Recording data to a strand of wire?

by IVIE＠cc.usu.edu

> Long before anyone glued rust to a strip of plastic and called it recording > tape, audio was recorded on spools of wire. In one episode of "The Secret Life of Machines", Tim played with magnetic recording. He recorded a little bit of info on a bandsaw, he stuck some rust to scotch tape and recorded on it, and visited a BBC warehouse where they had some truly amazing video recorders (large reels of steel band instead of tape). It's a shame the Discovery channel doesn't show those anymore. Roger Ivie ivie(a)cc.usu.edu

28 years, 3 months

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Recording data to a strand of wire?

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

Long before anyone glued rust to a strip of plastic and called it recording tape, audio was recorded on spools of wire. Whatever you can record audio on, you can record data on. Wire recorders are actually incredibly durable, and until recently, the airplane 'black box' cockpit voice & data recorders were wire recorders. There are a ton of them still in service. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if that's what the guy had at the flea market. Kai > -----Original Message----- > From: Sam Ismail [SMTP:dastar@wco.com] > Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 1998 3:51 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Recording data to a strand of wire? > > > I was talking to this guy I met at a flea market and he said he has a > storage device that writes data to a spool of wire. Can someone elaborate > on this? > > > Sam Alternate e-mail: > dastar(a)siconic.com > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----- > Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, > Jackass > > Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 > See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!

28 years, 3 months

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Firsts

by Philip.Belben＠powertech.co.uk

Peter Prymmer wrote: > incorporate integrated circuitry into what would become S/370 computers. > Interestingly the architecture (or its modern desecndant) was not put on a > single microprocessor until just a few years ago (1995 saw the 3490 CMOS > mainframe on a chip). I would not for a moment call these devices mere Are you sure? I remember when I was at IBM the PC/370 was available - this would have been 1985-86 or possibly summer 1987. I believe this was based on the 68000 circuitry with different microcode. Tony, what date is your little 370-alike? And how many chips? Philip.

28 years, 3 months

2
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RK05s now don't work.

by rcini＠email.msn.com

Well, let no one tell you that size doesn't matter. <g> Last night I was thinking about how I went about replacing the foam in my RK05 drives. The only thing that I changed was the foam. I disconnect no wires. So, I thought that maybe platter speed may be effected by air volume. The foam on the cartridge air inlet was about 3/32" thicker than the old foam. This difference was enough to reduce the air volume into the disk pack (there is a little bump on the air inlet that pushes a door open on the pack). The extra foam I guess did not allow the door to open enough. This lack of air produces enough drag on the motor spindle to stall the motor. Mystery solved. Rich Cini/WUGNET <nospam_rcini(a)msn.com> (remove nospam_ to use) ClubWin! Charter Member (6) MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking ============================================

28 years, 3 months

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The IBM PS/2 model 70 again! -E61

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 08:20 PM 1/12/98 +0000, you wrote: >Well, this specs is for that desktop model 70-E61 and $40 seems bit I agree then. I'm not too up on the IBM numbering scheme. >Hee hee...this is desktop which is called model 70 and the portable >lunchbox is P70 which uses 386 either 16 or 20mhz (ahem...sleepy I've got a P70 then. (Not sure if it's 16 or 20mhz.) >performance and no cache.) The P75 is also lunchbox in same way >BUT, it's real, honest 486DX 33 machine with scsi interface and >plasma display to boot. That is one I would like to have. Hmmm... Me too. Y'know, I once saw an honest-to-god IBM stand-alone plasma monitor in a surplus shop. 17" I think (or thereabouts). Pretty neat, but priced a little high. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 3 months

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Firsts

by francois.auradon＠worldnet.att.net

-----Original Message----- From: jpero(a)cgo.wave.ca <jpero(a)cgo.wave.ca> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Tuesday, January 13, 1998 9:30 PM Subject: Re: Firsts Oops it seems like I inserted the signature in the middle of a word or something like that. Try the link in this one >Hi Francois, > >Have a care, are your webpage set up correctly? I got 404. > >Jason D. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Francois Auradon. Visit the SANCTUARY at http://home.att.net/~francois.auradon

28 years, 3 months

2
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HP9100 A/B

by jstern＠ibm.net

I am looking for an HP9100 A/B: Good Money, even for a non operating machine. Contact: jstern(a)supremum.com

28 years, 3 months

2
1
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Firsts

by francois.auradon＠worldnet.att.net

-----Original Message----- From: Ward Donald Griffiths III <gram(a)cnct.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Tuesday, January 13, 1998 8:33 PM Subject: Re: Firsts >Paul E Coad wrote: >The TRS-80 Model 100 and it's amigos the Nec 8201 and Olivetti ??? had >no handles, unless you bought an overpriced briefcase add-on. I know >there's no handle on the Everex I take back and forth to work, that's >what my rucksack is for. In fact, I think _most_ modern notebook >portables are without handles of their own. T----------------------------------------------------------------------- Francois Auradon. Visit the SANCTUARY at http://home.att.net/~francois.auradonhat's probably why they are called laptops and not portables.

28 years, 3 months

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FWIW Dept: Old computer stuff for sale on AW

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

I found these items for sale on Aucion Web. The same guy ownes all three. "http://iguana.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4212123" Original Osborne 01 computer". Wants a $44 minimum bid. Oh well, interesting pictures there anyway. "http://iguana.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4185354" a KayPro 2 computer. Only $9.99 minimum on this one. "http://iguana.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4188852" a Commodore 128. bidding is now at $15.00 "http://iguana.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4186764" a Commodore disk drive "http://iguana.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4218100" a KayPro (Sanyo) monitor.

28 years, 3 months

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Port Plus and goodies for shipping, Southern CA

by engine＠chac.org

Ex-HP employee John Brown in Escondido, CA, would like the following to go to a collector: HP 45711F Portable Plus (this is the off-white-and-maroon laptop) 128K RAM card 9114B single 3.5 stiffy drive Thinkjet printer 82169B HP-IB interface ?? video monitor interface Full, _really_ full, software and docs. All tested and working as of a year ago. John is moving at the beginning of next week and would like to hear from someone who will pay freight on this by Friday, January 16th, or Saturday, January 17th. Please contact him, not me, at JBKE6QIQ(a)sprynet.com. Understandably, he doesn't want to scrap this. TIA, __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine(a)chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California

28 years, 3 months

1
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Firsts

by Philip.Belben＠powertech.co.uk

William Donzelli wrote: > is implemented using over a thousand gate arrays. The amazing thing is > that IBM was able to get all of those _hot_ chips working in such a > small space (about a cubic foot, maybe two). > > Yes, I lust for a S/360 or 370, and would even settle for a 3033 or 3081. Me too! But I think a 4381, say or even a 9370, would be easier to work on. Why? The 308X and 3090 (and I think also the 303X, although I know less about them) were _water cooled_. Maybe I am biassed as an electrical engineer, but I think that anything with water in it is bound to make a mess sooner or later... Philip.

28 years, 3 months

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Interesting goodies on punched paper tape!

by DSEAGRAV＠toad.xkl.com

Can anyone identify these? I have a serial tape reader, so I plan to read these into my PC and see if E11 or the Supnik emulator will take them. But I don't know what's on these. So, I'll just retype the labels Here goes... PUNCHED PAPER TAPES: CASE #1 DEC-11-NFPMA-A-PR2 8/72 M FPMP-11 DOUBLE PRECISION PACKAGE REPLACES: DEC-11-YQPC-PB DEC-11-NFPMA-A-PR1 8/72 M FPMP-11 SINGLE PRECISION PACKAGE REPLACES: DEC-11-YQPC-PB DEC-11-ULKSA-A-PR1 12/72 M LINK-11S OBJ V002A TAPE 1 OF 2 REPLACES: DEC-11-ZLQA-PR1 DEC-11-ULKSA-A-PR2 12/72 M LINK-11S OBJ V002A TAPE 2 OF 2 REPLACES: DEC-11-ZLQA-PR2 DEC-11-ULKSA-A-PL 12/72 M LINK-11S LDA V002A SA=22714 RA=22714 REPLACES: DEC-11-ZLQA-PL DEC-11-Y1PA-PB 11/10/69 M DUMPTT-V001A SA=LOAD ADDRESS RA=LOAD ADDRESS DEC-11-Y2PA-PB 11/10/69 M DUMPAD-V001A SA=LOAD ADDRESS RA=LOAD ADDRESS DEC-11-Y2PA-PO 11/10/69 M DUMPAD-V001A SA=XX7500 RA=XX7500 "USE SPECIAL LEADER" DEC-11-Y1FA-PO 11/10/69 M DUMPTT-V001A SA=XX7440 RA=XX7440 "USE SPECIAL LEADER" DEC-11-XIOXA-A-PA2 12/72 M IOX V006A TAPE 2 OF 2 REPLACES: DEC-11-Y1PB-PA2 DEC-11-XIOXA-A-PA1 12/72 M IOX V006A TAPE 1 OF 2 REPLACES: DEC-11-YIPB-PA1 DEC-11-XIOXA-A-PB 12/72 M IOX V006A REPLACES: DEC-11-YIPB-PB DEC-11-UODXA-A-PA 12/72 M ODT-11X PAL REPLACES: DEC-11-O2PB-PA CASE #2 DEC-11-UODPA-A-PB ODT-11 LDA V005A SA=13026 RA=13030 RE-ENTER=13032 REPLACES: DEC-11-O1PA-PB DEC-11-UODPA-A-PA 12/72 M ODT-11 PAL V005A REPLACES: DEC-11-O1PA-PA DEC-11-UODXA-A-PB 17/72 M ODT-11X LDA SA=12054 RA=12056 REPLACES: DEC-11-O2PB-PB DEC-11-CGPA-PB2 6/2/70 M PDP-11 CHECKOUT PACKAGE TEST A SA=NONE RA=NONE TAPE 2 OF 2 DEC-11-CGPA-PB1 6/2/70 M PDP-11 CHECKOUT PACKAGE TEST B SA=NONE RA=NONE TAPE 1 OF 2 DEC-11-CGPA-PA1 6/2/70 M PDP-11 CHECKOUT PACKAGE TADDUP. ASC. (2) TAPE 1 OF 2 DEC-11-CGPA-PA2 6/2/70 M PDP-11 CHECKOUT PACKAGE TADDUP. ASC. (2) TAPE 2 OF 2 DEC-11-UEDPA-A-PB 12/72 M ED-11 V005A REPLACES: DEC-11-E1PA-PB (I have to hurry here, the bell is coming. I'll just list the tape name) PAL 11S OBJ v003A (IT'S on 6 tapes) 6,5,3,2,1 ARE HERE PAL 11S LDA V003A PAL-11A LDA V007A CASE #3 MAINDEC COMMUNICATIONS TEST PROGRAM T14 TRAP TEST (1140 ONLY) T17-4K SYSTEM EXERCISER FPMP-11 SOURCE (6 TAPES. i HAVE 6,5,4,3,2, AND 1) And that's them! I have more elsewhere, I'll dig them out too. But for now, what's these? And can I get the emulator to take them? What about reading them into a real PDP (Like the 11/34?) The tapes are all real DEC tapes, they have DIGITAL EQUIPMENT CORPORATION - PROGRAMMED DATA PROCESSOR written on them. They seem to all be in good condition. -------

28 years, 3 months

2
1
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Lisa System Date

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Kip Crosby wrote: <>Huh? You mean 1995 was the last year a Lisa's sysclock could register? <>How, i. e. from when and with what ticks, was the clock set up? < <Yeah, pretty amazing isn't it. Now that's what I call planned obsolecenc <My Lisa 2/5 works great once I figured out in what order to turn everythi <on. One slight problem the date will be wrong, the whole time I own it. The most common cause its that the date(year) is only stored as a single digit and it's added to the date of creation of the system. This is very common! For some systems this is a two digit number but at 2000 it rolls around to 1900. FYI the common PDP-8 OS OS/8 happens to also have this problem every 7 years for using only three bits for the year portion of the date. Allison

28 years, 3 months

2
1
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Firsts

by Philip.Belben＠powertech.co.uk

> On Mon, 12 Jan 1998, Joe wrote: > >> Phillip said: >> > >> >Um. What date was the Casio AL1000? For that matter, what date was the >> >AL2000? OK, the AL1000 had nixie tubes in the display, so was not all >> >solid state, but it comes close, I'm sure. (Other people have commented >> >on the HP 9100 and the earlier Busicoms) >> >> Ahhh, a Casio expert! When was the Casio AS-8D made? I just picked one >> up. I had never seen one before and I thought it looked interesting. Alas, I am not a Casio expert. I merely happen to have an AL1000, an FX-502P and an FX-601P, FWIW. What is the AS-8D? Can you describe it to us? >> I was just reading an old (ca 1977) Byte magazine this morning and it >> had a article about the Tek 4051. I think they said it had just been >> discontinued. E-mail me if you're interested. >> >> Joe > > More likely superceded by the 4052, which used a bit-slice processor > rather than the MC6800 that the 4051 used. There were some other minor > improvements also, as I recall. I cannot remember the exact date the 4051 was discontinued, although I have it somewhere at home, but it was a couple of years after the introduction of the 4052. 1982? 1977 does sound more like the announcement of the 4052 and 4054, I must admit. Yes please, Joe, I am indeed interested in the Byte article. > The 4051 might also qualify for the race of an early personal computer if > its $10,000 cost doesn't put it out. It was programmed in the nicest BASIC > that I have ever run across! Marvellous vector graphics. But SLOOOOOW! > The real queen, though, was the 4053 with its 19" (17"?) screen! I think I'd disagree with you here, Don. The 4051 was announced with a price tag of (I think) $6999 for the base spec. (Might have been $7999). It went down in price very rapidly - the top spec machine was only $5250 or something when it was eventually discontinued. But I meant "personal" not in the sense of "personally owned" but in the sense of "intended to go on/at someone's desk for their personal use" - and I was commenting on the "all in one box" definition someone had proposed earlier. The 4051 BASIC is AWFUL. Example: the syntax of the IF statement is IF condition THEN line number. Similarly the 4052 and 4054. The really nice version came with the 4052A and 4054A in (?) 1982. This was achieved AFAICT by freeing up ROM space from GPIB handling routines - the upgrade was new ROMS plus a new I/O board that had a proper GPIB controller chip on it. I've never heard of the 4053. Are you sure you don't mean the 4054? This did have a 19 inch screen. Yes, I too would love a 4054A. But I have to be content with my 4052, which is also a nice machine. But as you say, the graphics are SLOW. (Faster on the 4054 which had constant rate vector drawing rather than constant time. But that's another story). I shall look up some of the above details when I get home - I did a talk on the 4050 series recently and the notes are still on my Microscribe - and post corrections if I made any glaring errors... Philip.

28 years, 3 months

2
1
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Firsts

by Philip.Belben＠powertech.co.uk

> <The 4051 BASIC is AWFUL. Example: the syntax of the IF statement is IF > <condition THEN line number. Similarly the 4052 and 4054. The really > > > 20 IF A=5 THEN 100 > > That is standard Dartmouth BASIC! at least it has been since 1969 when I > started programming with it. I see. I can never remember which features were original, which later. Most modern basics allow IF condition THEN line number, but also allow IF condition THEN statement, which is usually more useful, and forbidden on the Tek (which is what I was getting at). The original BASIC, IIRC (correct me if I'm wrong!) had a lot of useful array-handling commands, most of which remain on the IBM System/23 (Datamaster), and a few of which remain on the Tek, but which all disappeared in the home computer BASICs (mostly Microsoft, of course). But I digress. The reason I found 4051/4052 BASIC awful was because that IF statement, coupled with an absence of multistatement lines, takes away half the fun things I used to do on the PET (wherewith I grew up). On the 4052A and 4054A, BASIC really was nice. I think this is the dialect that Transera Corp. ported to PCs and some of their embedded processors. They call it TBasic, and I think this stands for Tektronix Basic. Certainly it has a lot of the graphics commands in common with the 4051/4052. But perhaps I was a bit harsh - Tek BASIC does have very powerful graphics and quite powerful GPIB handling. I still use it, after all :-) Philip.

28 years, 3 months

1
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TEXAS INSTRIMENTS TI99/4A

by chrish＠knet.kootenay.net

Hello this is my first post to the list hopefully it's ok:-) I have a ti99/4a if anyone wants it, for the cost of shipping. I live in British Columbia Canada. If anyone is interested please let me know Chris Halarewich (chrish(a)knet.kootenay.net)

28 years, 3 months

2
1
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What I did this weekend

by francois.auradon＠worldnet.att.net

The CPC's were the first Amstrads that I know of, they were commercialized in Europe. They are basically just a Keyboar type computer that plugs into a monitor they also had an integrated tape player for the earlier models and a 3 1/2" drive for the later models (before the PC compatibles). I don't remember the exact number but I think that the CPC6128 was the last of the series. > I don't what a CPC series is but the PC-1386s were sold here. I bought >one new. I have also seen a lot of Amstrad notebook type machines, non-DOS >I believe. > > Joe > >>----------------------------------------------------------------------- >>Francois Auradon. >>Visit the SANCTUARY at http://home.att.net/~francois.auradon >> >> >

28 years, 3 months

2
1
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Firsts

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<What I meant by personal computer was computers mass produced for the hom <market. But the rest is still good. What was the first computer to enter <home (coming from the industry)? That would be: First to the home market Altair 8800 first to be a complete system Sphere-1 first successful market venture Apple-II june-77 first marketed through a common outlet TRS-80 aug-77 Allison

28 years, 3 months

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Firsts

by francois.auradon＠worldnet.att.net

Here's a questionthat is probably going to generate some passionate debates: What are the firsts? first video game first TV video game first personal computer (I think I know that one) first portable computer first laptop first GUI first OS etc... It would be interesting to compile a list of first with their date of appearance. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Francois Auradon. Visit the SANCTUARY at http://home.att.net/~francois.auradon

28 years, 3 months

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Firsts

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 09:31 AM 1/11/98 -0800, you wrote: >> first personal computer (I think I know that one) >own research you will tend to agree. Some will argue that the Apple ][ I think you mean the Apple 1. >> first portable computer > >Again, same problem. Define "portable". Allison carted, what was it, a >PDP-8 across a bridge some years ago. She got funny looks, but she >"ported" her computer elsewhere. However, I believe this one goes to the >IBM 5100. However, did I hear grumblings of something portable pre-dating >even the 5100? Like something from HP in the early 70s? I think if you consider the 5100 a portable, then so should you consider the PDP-8. The 5100, while more *convenient* to move, perhaps, than, say, an Altair, is hardly all that portable. It's listed as 50lbs (a stretch even for me) and has no handle. You tell me how that's a portable? (It's much like a TRS-80 Model III, only flatter. I think the III is lighter though.) I vote for the STM Baby. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 3 months

2
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Firsts

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 01:39 PM 1/11/98 -0500, you wrote: >When did the Sphere-1s start shipping? My boards have 1975 dates on them. >The Sphere-1s were also integrated systems, with a standard setup having >the 6800 CPU board, a video board, 16K RAM, and a serial interface board. Haddock says 1975, no month. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 3 months

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Firsts

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

>>> first personal computer (I think I know that one) >> >>output" then that would be the Sol-20 from 1976. This was first proposed > > I think the credit on this one has to go to the IBM 5100 again. It was >released in 1975. Sol-20 -- introduced April, 1975 --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 3 months

1
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Firsts

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 06:51 AM 1/11/98 -0600, you wrote: >What are the firsts? Here are my guesses... >first portable computer Probably the STM Systems BABY! 1, ca. 08/1976 >first laptop MCM Computers System 700, Model 782 APL, ca. 12/1977 >first GUI Xerox whatevertheycalledit? --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 3 months

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Portland Sale, got a PDP, etc.

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 11:13 PM 1/10/98 -0500, you wrote: >a 'Zorba CPM' (some sort of Kaypro clone, apparently). All was in good, if > >When I go back tomorrow, I'm going to try to pick up the HP IPC, Kaypro >2000, and DG One I saw. (: AAaaarrrggghhh! I *really* want an HP IPC! And a Kaypro 2000! And a Zorba! I think if I didn't already have a DG One, I'd have to come up there and steal them from y'all.... 8^) Btw: Modular Micros Zorba 7 7" CRT 2 410K floppies 22lbs In prod. by '84 $1595 Modular Micros Zorba 2000 9" CRT 2 820K Floppies (10M HD avail) 25 lbs. in prod. by '84 ~$2000 --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 3 months

1
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Free IBM system 36

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 10:41 PM 1/9/98 -0800, you wrote: >Look at how fast a CP/M system can be up and running Wordstar, compared to >a Win95 system running Word97. About 3 seconds on my Starlet. 8^) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 3 months

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[Fwd: Fwd: Very Important, read, react, forward]

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

>those "encryption standards" last summer.... wiped out any chance of brain >activity in DC, outside of businesses.... Was there any brain activity before that? 8^) Well, one thing that is often forgotten is that the internet (or arpanet or something) was developed so that the US DOD could have a computer network that wouldn't die if one node when down. Which, of course, can be used against the feds, should they try and censor things. There's no reason I couldn't set up a server in a closet which, at a special, pre-arranged time, would call a server in, say, Portland to pick up the mail that was collected by calling a server in vancouver, etc. (Anyone ever heard of Fido?) Unfortunately, we (in the US) would lose a lot of what has made the 'net indispensable for a lot of people. Singapore censors stuff coming in via the mail (dunno about the 'net); we might very well end up the same way, if they really screw things up (cut off from the freedom-loving world.) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 3 months

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Upcoming PBS special on bit rot

by pvhp＠forte.com

Hi, I saw an advert in the latest issue of Scientific American for an upcoming special about archiving digital data to appear on PBS. It is supposed to show on the 13th (tomorrow) and alas I don't have the magazine with me here and I cannot recall what the show title is - or even whether it is part of a regular series. At any rate I thought folks on this list would be interested so go out and check your local listings. Peter Prymmer

28 years, 3 months

4
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Firsts

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Don't know about that one, but the PDP-8/i was available in a (rarely see The PDP-8i was pretty big and heavy. The 8e smaller and lighter but the tiny one was the 8m as it didn't have as many slots nor the heavier power supply needed to power it, it was shorter in depth. The 8m was in the 50 pound range as I remember. Allison

28 years, 3 months

3
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help with TRS-80 Model II?

by rws＠ais.net

Hi everybody. First off, let me ask- does anyone else have a Model II? I've been working on mine recently and I can't get it to work. When I got it the CRT was loose and rattling around the case and the power and reset switches were broken apart. I got these things sorted out and powered it up to get a screen filled with hash. It seems to roll around the screen and no characters are visible, just hash. I put a test clip on the Z80 and found very little activity. The only pin toggling is the clock. All of the address, data, and most of the control bus lines and either low or (apparently) tri-stated. I checked the BUSRQ* line to see if maybe something was asking for the bus and it was high. The BUSAK* output is low, however. Shorting NMI* to ground has no effect whatsoever. After it's been on for a while, turned off and right back on again, the screen remains blank. I changed out the Z80 for a known good one with no effect. I happened to note, however, that the computer generates lots of TVI, and the pattern changes during reset. If anyone has any suggestions, they would be most welcome. Also, if anyone has any schematics for this thing, that would help too. (Alternatively, if you know that a certain part is the same as the Model I, III, or 4, let me know as I have the schematics and working examples of these.) Richard Schauer rws(a)ais.net

28 years, 3 months

5
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Upcoming PBS special on bit rot

by jchin＠aesprodata.com.au

If any of you in the US gets to see this program, would you care to publish a short summary of any interesting bits? It's highly unlikely that this will be shown in Australia in the near future. cheers, John > I saw an advert in the latest issue of Scientific American for > an upcoming special about archiving digital data to appear on > PBS. It is supposed to show on the 13th (tomorrow) and alas > I don't have the magazine with me here and I cannot recall what > the show title is - or even whether it is part of a regular series. > At any rate I thought folks on this list would be interested so > go out and check your local listings. > Peter Prymmer

28 years, 3 months

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What I did this weekend

by adam＠merlin.net.au

>The CPC's were the first Amstrads that I know of, they were commercialized >in Europe. >They are basically just a Keyboar type computer that plugs into a monitor >they also had an integrated tape player for the earlier models and a 3 1/2" >drive for the later models (before the PC compatibles). I don't remember the >exact number but I think that the CPC6128 was the last of the series. A bit more info in case anyone is interested. :) The CPC's were developed by Alan Sugar, who controlled Amstrad at the time, in England. They were pretty much unique, because although there had been rumours, the poress conference where they were announced not only had production CPCs but also a range of completed commercial software - very different >from Sir Clive Sinclair's announcements. Anyway, yes - the keyboard is seperate and contains the computer, but the power supply is in the monitor. There was an external power supply available in combination with a TV output box, but from my experience these are quite rare. So if you do get one make sure you get the monitor with it. The monitors are quite good, and are either colour or monochrome. There were three models - the CPC464, CPC664 and CPC6128. The 464 had 64k, a tape drive built in next to the keyboard, and colourful keys. The 664 also had 64k, but it also had the 3" (note - not 3.5") disc drive, and the keys weren't quite so colourful (I think the cursor keys were blue). The 6128 has 128k, the 3" drive, and boring keys - it was the buisiness version. I have a couple of 6128's, but none of the earlier models (yet). They were mostly used as games machines, and were quite good, although there was a very well regarded wordprocessor on them - TasWord, I think it was called. They sold well in Australia and England, as well, or so I gathered, in Germany under a different name. Keep in mind though that if you get a 664 or 6128 the drive probably won't work - the fan belts wore out, and as a result the drive keeps slipping. I'm told that a rubber band (OO, possibly) is a good replacement. Oh, and they're black. :)

28 years, 3 months

1
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Firsts

by Philip.Belben＠powertech.co.uk

>>> Then there is the "first solid state electronic calc" which I think goes to >>> the Busicom from Japan that employed the first production run of the intel >>> 4000 chip set: the 4001 (2048 bit ROM), 4002 (320 bit RAM), 4003 (10 bit >>> shift register), and the 4004 (4 bit CPU). That chip set was shipped to >>> Busicom in March 1971 according to Michael S. Malone's "The Microprocessor: >>> A Biography" ISBN 0-387-94342-0 Um. What date was the Casio AL1000? For that matter, what date was the AL2000? OK, the AL1000 had nixie tubes in the display, so was not all solid state, but it comes close, I'm sure. (Other people have commented on the HP 9100 and the earlier Busicoms) We've also had some strange definitions of Personal Computer flying around here. One I don't like, but am going to comment on anyway, is the "system, terminal and video circuitry all in one box" definition. I don't think it quite makes it, but personal loyalty compels me to put in a word for the Tektronix 4051. This was announced in November 1975 (I think - have to look this up). I've never seen one but I get the impression the prototype was a Tek graphics terminal with a 6800 development system stuck in the bottom of the case... Anyway, Tek 4051 was intended as single user, one-to-a-desk graphics micro, so I claim it is a "personal computer". And if you're interested in portability, a carrying case was an option you could buy. When did 6800 start shipping anyway? Philip.

28 years, 3 months

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The IBM PS/2 model 70 again! -E61

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 03:25 PM 1/7/98 +0000, you wrote: >Which is preferable: Hock the offer to half of that $40 as agreed >on to "whip" for being liar? I can't see him bec he's away for his >doc appt til Friday. $40 imo is a pretty good price for a PS/2 70 lunchbox (if that's what it is). Even with 2/60. I've got 8/60 in mine, and it works okay. Doublespaced, iirc, with Win3.1 loaded. Memory is available, though not always cheap. I don't know much about the motherboard specifics though. >One Mac IIcx - what good about this one? The IIcx is a 68030 (I think!) but doesn't include the onboard video of the similar but slightly later IIci. It was introduced in 1989 at $4669 and discontinued in 1991 at $4699 (according to "The Mac Bathroom Reader".) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 3 months

2
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Trainers

by ZGE＠aol.com

Does anyone have information on a 4-bit microcomputer called the KX-33B . Back in 1979 , with the purchase of a Pet computer you could have received the kx-33b for free from Ancrona . Also I am looking for information on a programmable digital computer that NRI schools offered during the 70's . The front panel of the unit appeared to have sixteen rows of on\off switches for machine code entry . I am guessing that the kit utilized possibly a couple of 7489's for ram . Also any info on units that had similar 16x4 or 16x8 machine entry would be appreciated . thanks, Frank

28 years, 3 months

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Is there some special trick required to boot Fuzzball?

by DSEAGRAV＠toad.xkl.com

I have my 11/23 (The DEQNA isn't in it yet, it has RT-11 v5.04 on it, I kermitted over the distribution, followed the directions in in readme.txt, and did @sysgen. Then I had to go to class. (The 23 is at school) I came back an hour later to the . prompt (No error messages) So, I followed the rest of the directions, put everything on the DU0: (10MB EDSI drive on a QD21) and modifed BOS11 for my config (Commented the QNA driver, added RX02 lines as per the example in some other config), renmaed it to BOS1 and built that. No errors. Put that on the DU0: Now, I do RUN BOS1 and it sits there. Doesn't halt, just sits. It's been sitting 20 minutes, what did I do wrong? Oh, and I fudged, the drive is 120MB. I'm using MM to send mail, so I can't go change it. RT-11 seems to work just fine, btw. I boot from rt11XM normally, but to load fuzzball I did BOOT RT11SJ, then ran it. Not enough memory to do it under XM. Anything else I'm supposed to do? -------

28 years, 3 months

1
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Firsts

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<>the latest. I know as the cover of my issue has the last of MITS number <>and a $1300 total and a mailing date in december 1974. <> < What do you mean "the last of MITS numbers and a $1300 total" ? No not quite, it was the first of the line if anything and early on to boot as I had it in my hands by January 15! Last was supposed to be list. < That's my point. The IBM was already being produced at that point and <being delivered shortly thereafter. Altair was still using the prototyp <machine and just starting to sell bags of parts as "kits". Keep in mind the cover of PE was composed and at the printer in in september-october 1974 time frame if not earlier to meet the publication schedule if it was to arrive in my home by mid December 1974!. I should point out that the 8080 by then had been in production about a year at that point. Allison

28 years, 3 months

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Paperclip (Was: Re: Free IBM system 36)

by Philip.Belben＠powertech.co.uk

> Speaking of paperclip... I may have found the ROMs for both Paperclip and > Visicalc on the PET computers. Does anyone know what EPROM would fit the > ROM sockets in a PET? I've tried crossing the numbers on the ROMs and > can't learn anything. Does anyone have a schematic of a PET mainboard? 2732 on practically all PETs. Early ones (ROM=6540) had no spare sockets Early ones (ROM=2316) also had no spare sockets, but could take 2716 chips in place of the system ROMs Late ones (Model = 8296) had some sockets that could take 28-pin 2764s, but I think all the spare sockets were 24 pin for 2332 and 2732. HTH Philip.

28 years, 3 months

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Free System/36

by Philip.Belben＠powertech.co.uk

> actually, what i meant by the power-user comment was a person who is > not afraid to use a black-and-white command prompt if it can help > him/her do something. So, would a System/36 be good for me? If you don't mind learning OCL (the minicomputer version of JCL) and typing all the // commands at the command line of a text only terminal (probably green rather than black and white :-) ) then yes, give it a go. But first find out what size it is. There were desktops (5364), desk side (5362) and huge monsters (5360) plus some others (odd numbers) (after my time). The 5360 had a version of my favourite diskette drive, but I have spouted at length on this list about this in previous posts... Philip.

28 years, 3 months

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Firsts

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<was in full production and delivery while the Altair was still deliverin <incomplete bags of parts and even those were months behind. In fact, mos <Altair "kits" were delivered in installments spread over almost a year. Y <got parts for one section at a time. I DO have that ad handy. I shoul <scan it and post it. As some one that built ans has one... MITS offered the kit of the month as a way to get Altair into the hands of people that couldn't cought up $1000 at the front. I was doing engineering at the time and making a good buck with out marriage so it was doable and I had mine in about 4 weeks after the order (took UPS 10 days to deliver it then!). I may add it arrived on a tuesday and I used my evenings to set up for assembly and that weekend I started soldering and didn't stop till sunday night when first powerup occured. I had a working machine. Three weeks later I would get docs listing some 10-20 mods to make it more reliable! FYI the SN was in the 200 range. Now the much better IMSAI machine was nearly a year later in arrival but was actually better developed and a far more reliable design from the first. It was a marker machine as it also used S100 bus making it the Polymorphic -88 and the SOL-20 amoung the first to use the same bus and the swtp-6800 started the ss50 bus. Back then an open and standardized bus was a advantage to the person that owned the system and they werent locked to one vendors board and the price competition was fierce. By 1978 memory board were denser (8k static vs 4k dynamic) and half the price of the boards from MITS (88-mcd was ~400 for 4k). Allison

28 years, 3 months

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Firsts

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< He's got to be thinking of the HP 9800 series. I'm not sure when the I gotta get that sex change. It happens it's MS Allison and I don't have the problem of the wife objecting. Anyhow 9800 series it was most likely as when I'd seen it it was not new and I was doing 8008 design when that part was $180 each! Allison

28 years, 3 months

1
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SMS 1000 aka PDP-11/73

by healyzh＠ix.netcom.com

OK, I've powered on both of the systems with the PDP-11/73 processor boards in it. I now know that they are apparently "SMS 1000" machines, but I've been able to find nothing on it on the net, except for a web page that has a picture of one in a 'tower' case http://staff.motiv.co.uk/~kevan/collection/manufacturer-sms/1000.html Mine is in a rack mount case though. It has 5 buttons and a small alphanumeric LED display that gives some system info when the system is powering up. I'm quite honestly not sure how to proceed. I've connected a laptop running TELIX for VT100 emulation. This gave me some trouble initially, but it started working once I added a "Null Modem" adapter I had (trust me you don't want to see the console cable I put together with three adapters). The display and buttons are layed out like this. +-----------------------------+ | DISPLAY | +-----------------------------+ +------+------+------+------+ | MENU | < | > | * | +--+---+---+--+---+--+---+--+ | RE | RUN | WRT | | START | HALT | PROT | +-------+------+------+ On the one with the 5.25" floppy I get the following when it comes up. SMS 1000 BOOTSTRAP 256KW MEMORY 11/73 CPU BOOTABLE DEVICES: DEVICE DEVICE UNIT NAME TYPE NUMBERS DU DSA 0-15 MU TK50 0 MS TS 0 ENTER DEVICE NAME AND UNIT NUMBER: AUTO - BOOT BOOTING FROM DEVICE 0 ***THIS VOLUME DOES NOT CONTAIN A HARDWARE BOOTABLE SYSTEM *** 000034 @ On the one with the 8" I get HELLO MIKE BOOTSTRAP 256KW MEMORY 11/73 CPU BOOTABLE DEVICES: DEVICE DEVICE UNIT NAME TYPE NUMBERS DU DSA 0-15 MU TK50 0 MS TS 0 ENTER DEVICE NAME AND UNIT NUMBER: AUTO - BOOT BOOTING FROM DEVICE 1 BOOT-U-CI/O error 000724 @ I played around and they both appear to default to the correct device numbers for Hard Drives. It gives me a *** DEVICE NOT IN SYSTEM *** if I try to access MU0 or MS0. Well, MU0 is no surprise, I know it doesn't have a TK50 in it, but I've no idea what the TS is, or how I would, or if I could boot from floppy. The 'C' in BOOT-U-CI/O error is actually a wierd c like character with a little squiggely under it. I'm assuming the first simply doesn't have an OS, and that the second has some sort of hardware problem, most likely a dead Hard Drive. I've tried to ensure that all the connections on both are good. I've learned that typing in 173000G at the @ prompt will get me back to the "ENTER DEVICE NAME AND UNIT NUMBER:" and that I can then specify a device instead of letting it go with it's own choice. Does anyone have any suggestions as to what I can do at this point? I'm guessing not much until I can scrounge an OS from somewhere. Is it possible to attach the RL02's from the /44 and see if I can boot off of those? What kind of a card does it take to interface with a RL02? Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | | For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html |

28 years, 3 months

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What I did this weekend

by francois.auradon＠worldnet.att.net

-----Original Message----- From: Uncle Roger <sinasohn(a)ricochet.net> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Monday, January 12, 1998 2:40 AM Subject: What I did this weekend >A busy weekend, actually. > >1) I took pictures of a bunch of systems: > Amstrad PPC640 I didn't know these were available in the US. I just hauled one back (PPC512) from France last week and I thought that I had a very original portable (even though it got pretty heavy waiting for customs;) Were there any other of the Amstrad marketted in the US like the CPC series? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Francois Auradon. Visit the SANCTUARY at http://home.att.net/~francois.auradon

28 years, 3 months

2
1
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DEC Pro 350

by jfoust＠threedee.com

"Zane H. Healy" <healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com> wrote: >>I've got one in the basement... six-seven years ago, I even had it >>fired up over DECnet, talking to Macs and Amigas over Ethernet. >>Haven't gotten around to documenting it for my web page, though. > >Ah, what does it take to get it talking to Mac's and Amiga's? I'm assuming >if this can be done for the DEC Pro 350, I can do something simular with >the 11/73 or a VAX. Well, it takes DECnet networking software. For a while, my company made and sold a version of DECnet for the Amiga, a licensed port of the Mac DECnet called TSSnet from Thursby Software <http://www.thursby.com/>. I don't even have a copy any more, and I've long forgotten how to use it. You might be able to find a used copy. Don't even bother to ask Thursby for an Amiga version. - John Jefferson Computer Museum <http://www.threedee.com/jcm>

28 years, 3 months

1
0
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Firsts

by jimw＠agora.rdrop.com

At 04:43 PM 1/11/98 -0600, you wrote: >On Sun, 11 Jan 1998, Zane H. Healy wrote: > >> >> first portable computer >> > >> >Again, same problem. Define "portable". Allison carted, what was it, a >> >> Well, if you believe the Smithsonian's "Museum of American History" and I >> believe DEC's advertising this goes to one of the PDP's, I don't remember >> which one. I don't think it was a -8 or -11, and it's been over four years >> since I was last to the museum so my memory isn't the best. They showed >> the computer being in the back of a convertible IIRC, and actually had the >> computer there at the musuem. Big sucker. > >Wasn't there a DEC ad showing a PDP-8 fitting in the trunk (boot, or is >that a hood or bonnet?) of a VW bug? Would that qualify it as portable? Don't know about that one, but the PDP-8/i was available in a (rarely seen) 'pedistal' configuration that would have been fairly easy to move around, and the PDP-8/e/f/m came in a 'desktop' configuration that even had handles on the side. (the 'major' qualification for something to be considered 'portable'). At about 90 pounds for the complete (core, no disks) configuration, it could be moved with minimal pain by two people... -jim --- jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174

28 years, 3 months

1
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Firsts

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Close, the Altair 8800 was introduced as the cover project in the Januar <1975 issue of Popular Electroncs. Back in those days the January 1975 issues was recieved by mid december at the latest. I know as the cover of my issue has the last of MITS numbers and a $1300 total and a mailing date in december 1974. Also the machine on the cover bore only a resemblance to the production machine as it was a proto. ALlison

28 years, 3 months

2
1
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SDK-85 manual wanted (fwd)

by pcoad＠wco.com

Can anyone help this guy? Please respond directly to him. Thanks, --pec -------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Antique Computer Collection: http://www.wco.com/~pcoad/machines.html ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 10:12:00 +0100 From: Haering Martin <MARTIN.HAERING(a)hl.siemens.de> To: Paul E Coad <pcoad(a)wco.com> Subject: AW: Re: MCS-85 manual wanted Hello Paul, thank you very much for your quick respose. You're right, I'm german and I can see the problem with shipping. But I think we would find a solution there. But let me first tell you that my problem has changed now. I looked for the MCS-85 manual on my loft and - under a thick layer dust - i found it there. But instantly my next problem arised: I'm looking now for the SDK-85 manual. Even though the System Development Kit is described in the MCS-85 book, I need more detailed information to operate my old SDK board. Can you help me with this matter, too. I can see on several web pages, that some of your universities still use the MCS-85 and ask for the SDK manual for the lessons, but I can't get the manual itself over the net or any source to buy it. Now my question is: Do you have the SDK-85 manual for sale yourself or can you tell me a source or seller to get it? Thank you for your support in advance Martin ----------

28 years, 3 months

2
1
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What I did this weekend

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

A busy weekend, actually. 1) I took pictures of a bunch of systems: Atari Portfolio Radio Shack Model 100 Epson HX-20 NEC PC-8401a GRiD GRiDCase 3 NEC PC-8201A Apple Mac Portable Hewlett-Packard LS/12 Data General DG One Altima 2 IBM PC Radio Amstrad PPC640 Osborne 01 Compaq Portable 386 GRiD GRiDPad 1910 Hewlett-Packard 75D Amstrad PenPad PDA600 Panasonic Sr. Partner 2) Got them developed 3) bought a Land Rover (actually, 2) 4) wrote a system to automatically generate web pages for each of my computers based on simple data files. It uses 4 data files: Text, Resources, misc. Data, and Image list. There are a handful of template files used to build the actual web page. So all I have to do is come up with some text about the computer and lists of related links, images and specs to generate the web page. So, expect me to be asking about some of my systems in the near future. And, if anyone is interested in using this program, let me know. It's written in QBasic for DOS (Is that 10 years old?) but could probably be ported to just about anything. (In fact, I'll bet Perl or Cobol would be even better for some things.) You can see a sample of the layout it generates at <http://www.sinasohn.com/clascomp/m100.htm>. Note, the pics aren't there. I'd love to get any feedback anyone cares to offer. Thanks! --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 3 months

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C-64c, How common?

by higginbo＠netpath.net

Talk about coincidence, after this thread popped up, and me never having laid eyes on a C-64c, I found one in a local thrift shop. Bought the whole thing, included a 1541 floppy, all cables, a whole box of software, and a Magnovox RGB color monitor, which I now have hooked up to my Atari Jag. I never noticed before how much sharper those RGB monitors are compared to TVs. Well, I plan on playing with the C-64c for a while, but when I tire of it, I'll be selling it, sans monitor. Anyone be interested? At 09:02 PM 1/8/98 -0600, you wrote: >I see them from time to time here in the TwinCities. I do not buy them >anymore, I have 6. They have shape like the C128 and the same color and >run all the old cartridges. -John Higginbotham- -limbo.netpath.net-

28 years, 3 months

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Firsts

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

At 04:38 PM 1/11/98 -0600, you wrote: >On Sun, 11 Jan 1998, Joe wrote: > >> >> first personal computer (I think I know that one) >> >> I think the credit on this one has to go to the IBM 5100 again. It was >> released in 1975. > >Is it not true, then, that Ed Roberts coined the term 'personal computer' >to describe the Altair? (That's the legend I've been led to believe.) I don't know if he did or not but the Altair wasn't announced til January 1976 or 77 (I don't remember which but I have the magazine that it was announced in.) The IBM 5100 was already in production in 1975. Joe > >> Joe> > >ttfn >srw > >

28 years, 3 months

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Firsts

by fmc＠reanimators.org

Allison wrote: > < The 5100 was IBM's first "Personal Computer" (their words). It had > <BASIC or APL or both! > > The HP system predated it but, I may have the number wrong. It was > programmed in industrial BASIC. Allison, I'm really having trouble figuring out what you're thinking of. Even as far forward as 1975, the only HP systems I can think of that ran BASIC were minis. The 2100 and 2114 would have been the smallest of these, and both are boxes that really want to be in 19" racks but can be made to sit on tabletops and can be carried (I am certain that the 2100 has handles and think the 2114 does too). If carrying one doesn't convince you that it wants to be in a 19" rack or at least left sit I don't know what will. The closest thing I can think of is the HP 85, which is a fairly small and lightweight complete system, with keyboard, display, printer, and cartridge tape in the box. It was also "portable" in that you could get matching luggage for it. Next closest might be some of the 98xx calculator/workstations, but I think those were either programmed like calculators or in HPL, not BASIC. But all of this is late 1970s-1980 stuff. Maybe I'm just having a brain lapse? -Frank McConnell

28 years, 3 months

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DM11 Maintenance Jumper

by william＠ans.net

OK, I just found a very simple DEC part called M974 DM11 Maintenance Jumper. What is it? William Donzelli william(a)ans.net

28 years, 3 months

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How does Microcode work??

by rcini＠email.msn.com

Tony, Allison, Roger: Thanks for the quick tutorial on microcode. I knew that it was an involved topic worthy of many hundreds of pages of text, but you did a great job of giving me a thumbnail of the topic. Tony, thanks for the book refs. I'll try to track some of them down. Rich Cini/WUGNET <nospam_rcini(a)msn.com> (remove nospam_ to use) ClubWin! Charter Member (6) MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking ============================================

28 years, 3 months

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Firsts

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< I believe the Japanese Busicom calculator is even older and dates from <about 1966. busicom had some calcs before the one based on the 4004 but the 4004 design was 1971. By the there were other multichip designs but none as low a chip count as the 4004 nor were the as general in application. Up to that point calculator chip implementations were totally custom singular designs. Actually there were some chips before the intel part like the 3101 and 6700 bit slices. It took a lot of parts and design effort to make a computer as general as the 4004 though those parts were far faster. The 4004 and later parts were along the lines of reducing custom silicon solutions or hard wired designs to programatic solutions. As microprocessors became faster and self contained they were able to solve more problems that were either silicon intensive, real estate intensive or flat out too fast for digital solutions at the time. At the other end of the spectrum they created markets and applications that would not have been anticipated. After all who'ed ever though you'd need a custom programmed micro for a microwave or washing machine? Allison

28 years, 3 months

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Hayes modem installation

by manney＠nwohio.com

> I was wondering if anyone knew how to install a Hayes 9600 modem into > an XT (Ogivar Tech.). This is slightly off-topic, so e-mail me privately and I'll tell you. manney(a)nwohio.com

28 years, 3 months

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Whatchamicallthem?

by manney＠nwohio.com

I deal a _lot_ with new users, so my answers are a bit different. I use precise, non-standard (but descriptive) terminology. My goal is to employ labels such that non-users can understand instantly what I mean. > For computers like the C-64, the TI-99/4a, Atari 800, etc. I call the CPU > a "console". I call 'em a "keyboard", as that is what they look like. > The all-in-one dealies like the TRS-80 Model II/III and their ilk would > be "computers" Me too. More precisely, "old-style computer" > > Piece-part systems like the IBM, I'd call "systems" because you have a > system consisting of a CPU and peripherals, such as the keyboard, monitor, > disk drives, perhaps a mouse... I call the -- Monitor => Screen Case => System box I always stress that the 3 1/2" is called a "floppy ", because a surprising number of people think that they are "hard drives". I also see them commonly called "tapes" (and installing a program is commonly called "programming") > > Also, things like a PDP or DG Nova would be "systems", but I think people > prefer to refer to them as "mini's". I just call them computers -- newbies generally don't know the difference. (Besides, if you gave up your old stuff and all got PC's with Win95, you would have _real_ computers and get _real_ work done....snicker snicker.) (Quick! Now, I gotta change my e-mail address, lest I be buried under tons of irate e-mail...) manney(a)nwohio.com

28 years, 3 months

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XT Parts

by manney＠nwohio.com

> What I need: > a HDD, as after testing the one that came with mine on 2 machines, it Who are you? I have lotsa XT stuff. manney(a)nwohio.com

28 years, 3 months

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Tektronix 6130 Engineering Workstation

by fmc＠reanimators.org

"Zane H. Healy" <healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com> wrote: > There is also a terminal with it, a "Ann Arbor XL Series" that connects via > a Serial line. Does anyone have any idea what kind of terminal this is? > It's very wierd, it's the only ASCII terminal that I've seen which is a > portrait-mode terminal! Is this some kind of VT-100 compatible or > something? The only thing I've ever seen that even comes close is some of > the old Macintosh monitors. It's probably a flavor of the Ann Arbor Ambassador terminal. I remember them as being in somewhat widespread use by Unix folks in the early-to-mid 1980s, their major feature being the number of lines of source you could fit on the screen. They pretty much fell out of favor across the mid-1980s with the proliferation of bit-mapped displays. -Frank McConnell

28 years, 3 months

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Firsts

by francois.auradon＠worldnet.att.net

>You missed calculators and there are rough catagories: > >First eletronic calc > >first pocket calc > >HP35 $700, the lowcost market breaker being the Bomar Brain. > >First programable calc Good point here thank you. By the way the list was not exhaustive pleas feel free to add anything and everything you want. > > ><first personal computer (I think I know that one) > >If you mean PC (as in the IBM PC) then the answer is IBM. However if you >man pc as in personally owned computer, then you go back by maybe 10-20 What I meant by personal computer was computers mass produced for the home market. But the rest is still good. What was the first computer to enter the home (coming from the industry)? ><first portable computer > >Define portable as I'd seen totables in the late 70s. One very nice one >was an expanded EVK68 board in a classy wood case with a small crt and >keyboard. My interpretation of portable is a computer that is meant to be moved from place to place fairly easilly: that means integrated monitor, disk drive (or tape player), a carrying handle (or two). > >One that comes to mind was the HP(5100?) complete packaged system with >tape for storage and basic and GPIB for external interface. > ><first laptop > >Not sure but it wasnt a dos based for sure. Tandy trs100 or the similar >NEC, Epson, and others. > ><first GUI > >Xerox PARC smalltalk > ><first OS > >This is real old likely in the late 40s early 50s and was likely a >machine monitor system to load/save programs. Even the PDP-1 had an OS >to timeshare multiple users. You may have to be more specific as to tthe >type or style of OS as there are several and the appearance of each >corosponds to emerging concepts in computing. > >Allison >

28 years, 3 months

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Firsts

by francois.auradon＠worldnet.att.net

>> > first video game >> >> "Computer Space" which was Atari's first video game. I think someone may >> correct me and tell me it wasn't "Atari" yet, but it was created by Nolan >> Bushnell. > >Spacewar for the PDP-1 is the granddaddy. Still runs, once a year >(hopefully, if the West Coast computer museum keeps up the tradition). Wouldn't that be the first computer game? I am not familliar with the PDP-1 but it sounds like a computer name. >

28 years, 3 months

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Firsts

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<> own research you will tend to agree. Some will argue that the Apple ] <> was the first (by this definition). But the Sol-20 beat it by a few <> months. < <When did the Sphere-1s start shipping? My boards have 1975 dates on them Early 75 and they do predate the polymorphic systems-88 and PT-sol that was latest of the three. Allison

28 years, 3 months

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Whatchamicallthem?

by francois.auradon＠worldnet.att.net

Hi all, Is there an official name for all various computer packages? What I trying to find is how to call a computer that is just a keyboard that you plug on the TV (a la C64)versus a computer that has everything attached (TRS 80 mod 4) versus a PC style where components are separate. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Francois Auradon. Visit the SANCTUARY at http://home.att.net/~francois.auradon

28 years, 3 months

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Need PDP processor card identified

by healyzh＠ix.netcom.com

Some how I don't think that the two PDP-11's that were supposed to be /23's are, but at least they do appear to be PDP-11's. So my question is what is a M9192? The list I have shows it as being a "DUAL HEIGHT CPU BRD", which is "real" informative! According to the list I've got the 23's CPU's have different numbers. They both have 256KW of 18-bit memory. This brings up an interesting question, how many bytes are there in in a Word when you're talking PDP-11's? Since it's 18 my guess would be 2 with parity bits. While I'm asking I've got some other cards that I can't identify, I think that they're for PDP's and not VAX's. Does anyone recognize any of these, or have a good place on the net for me to look? SCD-RQD11/EC -- this one had 6 connectors for ribbon cables M8059-KP -- I believe it's 64k, is it for PDP? M3104 DHV11 -- It's got two ribbon connectors, by guess is it's for adding other terminals. I seem to have a pair. Distributed Logic Corp. DQ342 -- no idea, two ribbon connectors Plessey P/N 70590-100A -- looks to be a RAM board Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | | For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html |

28 years, 3 months

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Firsts

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< I don't think a Cincinati Millicron would hardly be considered a <"Personal Computer" no matter what the number of owners. That specific machine was about the same size as a PDP-8e and about 60 pounds. For that era that was very compact and light. But personal it was as at that time it resided in my bedroom while I was trying to write some simple code via asr33/ptape. < The 5100 was IBM's first "Personal Computer" (their words). It had <BASIC or APL or both! The HP system predated it but, I may have the number wrong. It was programmed in industrial BASIC. Allison

28 years, 3 months

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DEC Pro 350

by jfoust＠threedee.com

I've got one in the basement... six-seven years ago, I even had it fired up over DECnet, talking to Macs and Amigas over Ethernet. Haven't gotten around to documenting it for my web page, though. - John Jefferson Computer Museum <http://www.threedee.com/jcm>

28 years, 3 months

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Whatchamicallthem?

by francois.auradon＠worldnet.att.net

But then where would the mac (toaster style) fit? Computer or system? I am not sure the term computer to differenciate the box styles is adequate since they are all basically "Computers" I guess what I'm trying to find is a term to differenciate the packaging of computers. Also consoles is used for video games that plugs on the TV and would cause confusion. System is a pretty broad designation that can describe a lost of things. Am I getting picky or what? Maybe we need to invent some terms a la jargon in order to differentiate the various types of packaging. >For computers like the C-64, the TI-99/4a, Atari 800, etc. I call the CPU >a "console". Basically, anything with an integrated CPU, keyboard and >video output I call a console. I don't tend to think of things like the >Apple ][ as "consoles" because they didn't use a TV as their monitor by >default, which the above systems generally did (there goes my Apple ][ >bias again). But really, the Apple ][ fits my description of "console". > >The all-in-one dealies like the TRS-80 Model II/III and their ilk would >be "computers" because they have all the basic adjuncts to define an >entire computer in the most generic sense of the word (CPU, keyboard, >display, storage). > >Piece-part systems like the IBM, I'd call "systems" because you have a >system consisting of a CPU and peripherals, such as the keyboard, monitor, >disk drives, perhaps a mouse... > >Also, things like a PDP or DG Nova would be "systems", but I think people >prefer to refer to them as "mini's". > >Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- >Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass > > Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 > See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! >

28 years, 3 months

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Firsts

by francois.auradon＠worldnet.att.net

I meant by the original posting to try to gather a list of firsts. Any definitions of first are acceptable and if they can be extended to familly of hardware, software, packaging gimmicks etc. is OK. What I found interesting in the question is more in the order of finding out how long an idea has been out there and how many categories can be found. I see a lot of questions about defining such and such term I guess it is more fun to find out what YOU understand by the words OS, Personal computer, etc. -----Original Message----- From: Francois Auradon <francois.auradon(a)worldnet.att.net> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Sunday, January 11, 1998 6:18 AM Subject: Firsts Here's a questionthat is probably going to generate some passionate debates: What are the firsts? first video game first TV video game first personal computer (I think I know that one) first portable computer first laptop first GUI first OS etc... It would be interesting to compile a list of first with their date of appearance. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Francois Auradon. Visit the SANCTUARY at http://home.att.net/~francois.auradon

28 years, 3 months

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Portland Sale, got a PDP, etc.

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

At 11:13 PM 1/10/98 -0500, you wrote: > >When I go back tomorrow, I'm going to try to pick up the HP IPC, Kaypro >2000, and DG One I saw. (: > > What were they wanting for the HP IPC? If you don't want it, I'll take it off your hands. BE SURE to look around for any external HP disk drives! Get an HP-IB cable or two if they have them but don't let them overcharge you for them. A lot of people act like they're made of gold. Joe

28 years, 3 months

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Firsts

by pvhp＠forte.com

classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu Subj: Re: Firsts Allison J Parent wrote: >You missed calculators and there are rough catagories: > >First eletronic calc > >first pocket calc > >HP35 $700, the lowcost market breaker being the Bomar Brain. > >First programable calc Then there is the "first solid state electronic calc" which I think goes to the Busicom from Japan that employed the first production run of the intel 4000 chip set: the 4001 (2048 bit ROM), 4002 (320 bit RAM), 4003 (10 bit shift register), and the 4004 (4 bit CPU). That chip set was shipped to Busicom in March 1971 according to Michael S. Malone's "The Microprocessor: A Biography" ISBN 0-387-94342-0 (which is not a great book: much content was apparently largely dictated by the PR departments of a few Silicon Valley companies and thrown together much as a newspaper article would be. It nontheless contains some interesting photos and bibliographic references and I think was the result of a rushed editorial deadline (why would a publisher rush a history book?)). ><first OS > >This is real old likely in the late 40s early 50s and was likely a >machine monitor system to load/save programs. Even the PDP-1 had an OS >to timeshare multiple users. You may have to be more specific as to tthe >type or style of OS as there are several and the appearance of each >corosponds to emerging concepts in computing. There are references to the operation of the IBM/Harvard Mark I (programming loops were constructed by literally looping the input tape back on itself e.g.) It could be argued that such an early machine was not a stored program computer hence could not even support an OS. If however one does not limit oneself to only software notions of OS then the "Start" button could be considered to be an OS - implemented in hardware. I personally don't know much about the early Sperry Rand or Manchester->Ferranti computers (first commercial computers) since so much of the widely available literary records are dominated by IBM's history, but certainly by the time of the IBM 705 (mid 50's) there were OSes. Few of the early ones were time-sharing and many were not even "full-duplex". Peter Prymmer

28 years, 3 months

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Firsts

by allisonp＠world.std.com

You missed calculators and there are rough catagories: First eletronic calc first pocket calc HP35 $700, the lowcost market breaker being the Bomar Brain. First programable calc <first personal computer (I think I know that one) If you mean PC (as in the IBM PC) then the answer is IBM. However if you man pc as in personally owned computer, then you go back by maybe 10-20 years to things like old surplus missle computers, homebrewed systems and PDP-8s and the like. Prior to the IBM abortion pc meant personally owned and was not based on what it was but who owned it. Personally owned computers was a new thing starting in the late 60s to early 70s. Around 72-73 it was possible to buy a used PDP-8 or CM2000 for a few thousand dollars. I know in December of 72 I almost bought a Cincinati Millicron CM2000 for the offered price of $2000(big bucks then) with 8k of core, serial line card and 6port muxed serial card. <first portable computer Define portable as I'd seen totables in the late 70s. One very nice one was an expanded EVK68 board in a classy wood case with a small crt and keyboard. One that comes to mind was the HP(5100?) complete packaged system with tape for storage and basic and GPIB for external interface. <first laptop Not sure but it wasnt a dos based for sure. Tandy trs100 or the similar NEC, Epson, and others. <first GUI Xerox PARC smalltalk <first OS This is real old likely in the late 40s early 50s and was likely a machine monitor system to load/save programs. Even the PDP-1 had an OS to timeshare multiple users. You may have to be more specific as to tthe type or style of OS as there are several and the appearance of each corosponds to emerging concepts in computing. Allison

28 years, 3 months

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Anyone ever heard of an Amigo?

by adam＠merlin.net.au

>I picked up an Amigo computer today from a thrift store. Now, this is >something cool as I have never seen one before and it is an interesting >design for its time. > >The CPU and CRT are in one unit. In fact, at first I thought this was >simply a dumb terminal because normally when you had a computer with >integrated CPU/CRT it was a lot bulkier than this one is. The motherboard >on this is tucked right under the tube. It has a Z-80 CPU and a 6502 (I'm >assuming the 6502 is for the video display). The keyboard is an IBM XT >keyboard (same key layout) but it has a 1/4" phono plug that connects to >the front of the CRT/CPU (just like the Apple Lisa keyboard). I also got >a dual half-height disk drive unit for it and two boxes of 5.25" floppies >with programs such as WordStar, Supercalc, etc. I got a couple CP/M >master disks with it as well. I have something called an Amigo, made (although the name is hard to read) by Surwave. Mind you, it could well be a Surwave made by Amigo. :) It also has the z80 and the 6502 on the mother board, but it is not an all-in-one unit. Indeed, it looks a bit like the Aplle ][. I have done what research that I could, and so far have learnt that it was a Korean Apple ][ clone, that could run cp/m or Apple software. They were made in the very early eighties, and were imported into Australia via a person who still resides in Adelaide. I have tracked down some information about him, but have yet to find the person himself. They were quite popular here, but few survived - mine didn't, as it won't show anything on the screen. I am considering getting it repaired, but I don't know enough to do it myself. Anyway, I imagine that your computer is another model by the same people - try an Apple boot disk and see what happens. :) If you want I can continue to try and track down the importer. I know he stopped importing computers and went into the computer embroidery business, which does give me something to work with, anyway. I had given up as I had covered almost everyone I could find who had anything to do with old Apples, but there are still a couple of loose leads. I'm sure he would know about any other systems made by the company. Adam.

28 years, 3 months

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RK05s now don't work! Help!

by rcini＠email.msn.com

This weekend, I decided to replace the rotting foam in my RK05 drives. BTW, self-adhesive weather striping seems to fit well. Home Depot carries one in white (3/8" square) that works for the disk pack air intake. There is also a black one, 7/16" x 3/4" that works for the foam between the blower motor and the card cage. Anyway, I digress. When I finished replacing the foam, I made sure that I vacuumed up any foam particles. I powered-up my 11/34a, and now neither drive gives me an "On Cylinder" light. AFAIR, inserting a disk pack and pressing "load" would produce a distinctive hum, indicating that the spindle motor is starting. Now, I get no hum. Looking inside, I don't see the spindle running. Also, for the first time, one drive popped its circuit breaker. It's almost like both spindles are stuck. They're not, though; I checked (While looking into the spindle motor and spinning the disk spindle I can see the motor fan move.) I did not disconnect any wires during this process. Any clues? BTW, what's the little red switch on the power supply board for? Thanks for the help, again. Rich Cini/WUGNET <nospam_rcini(a)msn.com> (remove nospam_ to use) ClubWin! Charter Member (6) MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking ============================================

28 years, 3 months

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Need PDP processor card identified

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<a M9192? The list I have shows it as being a "DUAL HEIGHT CPU BRD", whic <is "real" informative! According to the list I've got the 23's CPU's hav <different numbers. M8186 PDP-11/23 (KDF11A) M8189 PDP-11/23 (KDF11B) < <They both have 256KW of 18-bit memory. This brings up an interesting <question, how many bytes are there in in a Word when you're talking <PDP-11's? Since it's 18 my guess would be 2 with parity bits. Correct the extra are parity and it's always 2 8bit bytes to a 16bit word. <SCD-RQD11/EC -- this one had 6 connectors for ribbon cables I believe this is a distribution board for the RQDX1/2/3 floppy/hard disk controllers. <M8059-KP -- I believe it's 64k, is it for PDP? 256kb(128kw) parity memory. <M3104 DHV11 -- It's got two ribbon connectors, by guess is it's for addi <other terminals. I seem to have a pair. These are terminal line controllers with silos and modem controls. Handy! <Distributed Logic Corp. DQ342 -- no idea, two ribbon connectors Unknown to me. <Plessey P/N 70590-100A -- looks to be a RAM board There were a lot of third part ram suppliers. Allison

28 years, 3 months

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Portland Sale, got a PDP, etc.

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<> > BTW, what is a DEC Professional 350? I passed on both that and a Rai <> > or two (they had a huge stack of Rainbows, but no monitors or keyboar <> > sight). I really want to go back, and would tomorrow I think, but th <> > weather is turning bad, and I'm supposed to be elsewhere :^( The PRO350 is a member of the PDP-11 family. The processor is the F-11, that's the same one as the 11/23 and they could carry up to 1meg of ram. The bus physically is unique to the pro but it is similar to q-bus in signals and timing. As to options: RX50 floppy RD50/51/52 hard disks(rd51 10meg was common) various memory options APUs for 8088 or z80s eithernet interface Color graphics Operating system was POS and was a modified version of RSX and is a multitasking os. RT-11 was also available. Many programming languages were available. Venix is available on the net for this box. Speed, the PRO350 was slightly faster than the 11/23 though the disk interfaces were slower. It did make a good workstation. Versions, There was a PRO380 which used the J-11 (11/73 11/83) processor which was faster and also the design carried more memory. Same box. I have one and they are neat small machines. You need a monitor and keyboard to make it complete. Allison

28 years, 3 months

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XT Parts

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

Hello. From what I've heard, XT's practally line the streets in some places. But, not here. :-( But, I've got most of an XT here. If anyone has some spare parts, that they're willing to donate/sell, than that would be great. What I need: a HDD, as after testing the one that came with mine on 2 machines, it doesn't work. It sounds bad, too. Preferably, one that's a 10MB, like the origional IBM. I don't have any SW, so it would be handy if you could just take one out. But, if not, I can try other things. A Controller, one that can handle Big Blue's origional 360K A second one, that can handle the above hard drive. (May not be needed) A video card. I need to figure out what's wrong with my XT monitor, as it doesn't seem to be working. But, I could just use my CGA. And, yes, I'm sure that I need all these. I've tried every part, and none of them work. I tested my monitor on a friends CGA graphics card (but set to mono), and the picture was CLEAR. I'm willing to pay for these, as they'd make my first working classic. And, I know that beggers can't be choosers.

28 years, 3 months

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Firsts

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<> >First programable calc <> <> Then there is the "first solid state electronic calc" which I think goe <> the Busicom from Japan that employed the first production run of the in <> 4000 chip set: the 4001 (2048 bit ROM), 4002 (320 bit RAM), 4003 (10 bi No, this was not the first by a long means. I vaguely remember a desktop HP job that was years earlier. There were designs that were RTL and utililogic and even earlier designs that were about the size of a desk drawer that were both totally electronic and to some extent programable. Allison

28 years, 3 months

3
2
0 0

wanted for tandy 1400

by mhyde＠kconline.com

i need an adapter and hard disk for a tandy 1400 laptop

28 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

Portland Sale, got a PDP, etc.

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

At 01:53 PM 1/11/98 -0500, you wrote: >> Get an HP-IB cable or two if they have them but don't let them overcharge >> you for them. A lot of people act like they're made of gold. > >That is because they are, at least to the test engineering world. These >people spend large amounts for just about everything ($500 power supplies, >$3000 signal generators, etc.), so a $20 cable is nothing to them. The >dealers know they can get a large amount for HPIB cables, so they do. > >William Donzelli >william(a)ans.net $20 HA! Some of the dealers want $50+ plus for used ones around here. OTOH I have been given bunches of them and there are tons of them available. I just meant to warn him not to let them stick it to him for a cable or let the price of the cable stand in the way of buying the HP IPC. Joe > >

28 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

Firsts

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

At 01:44 PM 1/11/98 -0500, you wrote: >> >First programable calc >> >> Then there is the "first solid state electronic calc" which I think goes to >> the Busicom from Japan that employed the first production run of the intel >> 4000 chip set: the 4001 (2048 bit ROM), 4002 (320 bit RAM), 4003 (10 bit >> shift register), and the 4004 (4 bit CPU). That chip set was shipped to >> Busicom in March 1971 according to Michael S. Malone's "The Microprocessor: >> A Biography" ISBN 0-387-94342-0 > >Wang's first (or quite near their first) product was an all electronic >calculator, introduced in the late 1960s. They are big, but could be >lugged around. The best part about them is the core memory! No >microprocessors here (in fact, it may be discrete transistors - I better >open the thing up a check). > >William Donzelli >william(a)ans.net > HP's first calculator, the 9100a, was introduced in 1967 or 68. It had no ICs, used core memories, and used logic gates made of diodes and resistors. It did have transistors but they were mainly used as amplifiers for the core memory. I guess it still qualifies as "solid state".) It was fully proggramable and used RPN. I have a 9100B with a 1969 date code. I believe the Japanese Busicom calculator is even older and dates from about 1966. Joe > >

28 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

Console Cables

by healyzh＠ix.netcom.com

OK, pardon my myriad of questions tonite, but I'm learning something totally foriegn here. I've done some hunting, and it appears that I was right, the pair of small PDP-11's aren't 23's their 73's. I wan't to see if I can get them to boot, however, I'm wondering how I should connect the terminal. Do I use a straight serial cable 9600 8-N-1, null modem cable, or what. I'm already getting the impression that I'm going to end up building a cable for the VAXstation 2000. Based on what I've been able to find out on that. Hopefully the snow tonite isn't to bad, I don't think I've got any spare connectors laying around right now. Probably a good thing, I'd be tempted to build the cable right now :^) Is this the correct penout for the VS2000 console cable? 2<->3, 3<->2, 7<->7 Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | | For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html |

28 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

Portland Sale, got a PDP, etc.

by healyzh＠ix.netcom.com

I got back from the Portland sale, pretty cool. Seems like most of the people there were Hams, with some possible camara buffs. Most people looking at the computers were interested in stuff for modern systems. There were at least four other people there into the classics though. I went a bit crazy, and ended up with the following: PDP-11/44: Rack 1: 2 RL02's and what appears to be the connections for terminals Rack 2: CPU, dual floppies (8" I think), those funny little tape drives I've heard mentioned, and a Battery Backup I'm questioning the identity of these two, it's how they were labled, but they don't have a DEC nameplate. PDP-11/23: 8" disk and 20Mb HD PDP-11/23: 5.25" disk and 20Mb HD Kaypro II: I'm hoping the floppies are in good shape, I've really been wanting to get one of these. VAXstation 2000 S-100 bus cards: ~6 floppy controllers, ~1 I/O controller, a lot of RAM cards Q-Bus cards: ESDI floppy controller (YES!!!), 2 8Mb RAM cards, a whole pile that looked interesting and I honestly don't have any idea what they are. I think at least a couple are for a MircoPDP-11, and I'm wondering if one isn't a CPU for the MicroPDP-11. I'll probably have questions on what some of these are later, thankfully a couple days ago I found a pretty good Excel Spreadsheet on the net that will hopefully help me to identify them! A shrinkwraped copy of CP/M for the Rainbow 100, one of the manuals and another expansion unit for the Tek workstation I picked up a couple days ago, and maybe one or two other minor items I can't think of now. What can I say I'm pooped, I got my Dad to go, so I could use his Suburban, but I didn't think about how little he can lift nowdays. If it wasn't for Jim Willing, and the guy selling the stuff helping I don't think I'd have gotten the Rack with the 11/40 CPU in the truck. Unfortunately we couldn't figure out how to get the CPU out of the rack :^( I've gotten everything except the 11/40 out of his truck, that's going to have to wait. Unfortuntaly it's starting to snow, so it's probably going to wait until next weekend. No idea if anything works, I'm going to start playing tonite after I get done taking a break. As for the place having the sale, it was incredible, piles of old computers, tons of S-100 bus cards and computers. O-Scopes, ham junk, old camera equipment, etc., etc., etc. Of course to my thinking the prime stuff was was the PDP-11/44 and the VAX 11/730, with those around it was hard to see anything else. I'd have liked to get the VAX, but in all honesty now that I've got the /44 I think I'll stick to MicroVaxes, they're easier to move. I passed up a couple of Bell & Howell Apples (the black ones), they were trashed and didn't have the floppies, I'd have loved them for my Apple collection, but they were to far gone. I really should have picked up a VT220 or one of the other terminals that they had. They had a lot of Televideo stuff, but I didn't recognize what it was. BTW, what is a DEC Professional 350? I passed on both that and a Rainbow or two (they had a huge stack of Rainbows, but no monitors or keyboards in sight). I really want to go back, and would tomorrow I think, but the weather is turning bad, and I'm supposed to be elsewhere :^( Well, that's it for now, I want to start checking stuff out! Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | | For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html |

28 years, 3 months

4
6
0 0

Hayes modem installation

by shield＠freenet.edmonton.ab.ca

I was wondering if anyone knew how to install a Hayes 9600 modem into an XT (Ogivar Tech.). There are a MASSIVE 21 megs in the hard drive, and a 5.25 " drive. This is just a learning computer for a friend who will buy up if this one can work. I'm on a non-graphical internet account and the XT has a program already loaded on it to dial out, but the modem isn't being recognized. All I've done is physically put it into the slot ( it fits perfectly inside) and I haven't touched any switches or the autoexec.bat at all. I have no idea it those things are what I'd need to do anyway. Could someone help me out? Keep the information in English, not tech-ese, I'm still learning too! Thank you!

28 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

Anyone ever heard of an Amigo?

by dastar＠wco.com

I picked up an Amigo computer today from a thrift store. Now, this is something cool as I have never seen one before and it is an interesting design for its time. The CPU and CRT are in one unit. In fact, at first I thought this was simply a dumb terminal because normally when you had a computer with integrated CPU/CRT it was a lot bulkier than this one is. The motherboard on this is tucked right under the tube. It has a Z-80 CPU and a 6502 (I'm assuming the 6502 is for the video display). The keyboard is an IBM XT keyboard (same key layout) but it has a 1/4" phono plug that connects to the front of the CRT/CPU (just like the Apple Lisa keyboard). I also got a dual half-height disk drive unit for it and two boxes of 5.25" floppies with programs such as WordStar, Supercalc, etc. I got a couple CP/M master disks with it as well. It powers up and on the screen it says: V.10 BOOT Insert system diskette in lower drive. I can hear the drive spinning as if its trying to boot from the disk but none of the system disks I have seem to work. Perhaps they are bad, or the drive heads need cleaning. What I really want to know is if anyone has ever seen or worked with one of these, and if you've got any information on it. Thanks! Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!

28 years, 3 months

2
1
0 0

Rescued two old systems today.

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

I went to a hamfest today and picked up two systems that "AREN'T GOING BACK HOME". One is a Rubicon II and the other is a Tandy 6000 HD. The Rubicon uses 2 floppy drives and I think runs CPM. The Tandy is running Xenix (sp?) and has a 8 inch floppy drive and 15Mb hard drive. Can anyone tell me anything about these? How rare? When they were made? If they have any value? etc. Joe

28 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

Free IBM system 36

by manney＠nwohio.com

> a PC type can't consider until he's bloated his system to at least > 640K (or lately, 32Mb). 96MB is what I just put into mine. Corel 7 _flies_! ...but, it's hard to unlearn habits. I still find myself deleting <1K text files to "save space". I don't program much anymore, but if I did, I suspect I'd still be trying to squeeze a few bytes out here and there. With memory and HDD's so cheap, tho', and the intense pressure in the software market, it's simply not economically feasible to shave bytes. Also, a lot of the bloat is not only in features ("PIM outputs next year's schedule in HTML for easy posting to the web -- now with finite element analysis of paperclips!"), but things such as clipart, which gets stuck on the hard drive, for convenience...even MSWorks comes with clipart, for Pete's sake. Everything comes with 20 fonts (reminds me of an English restaurant: everything with chips) and a tutorial.

28 years, 3 months

2
1
0 0

linux

by allisonp＠world.std.com

Pete, Have to send this on list as your address bounces. <Have you installed the "N" diskset - networking tools? If so then it <should be in /usr/sbin. I'd selected it for install but for some reson setup didn't install all the files I'd selected. I ran pkgtool and put everthing from the "n" diskset in and it's there now. <With regard to the packet driver for your DE-100 card it may be worth <visiting D-Link's web site. The PDI8023 would be better if I could use it in the dos/win3.1 box. I'll check the web site. Allison

28 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

VAXstation 2000 question

by healyzh＠ix.netcom.com

OK, the question of the moment is how do I connect a console to a VAXstation 2000? Is it the plug with arrows pointing in opposite directions or do I need a special cable? I'm assuming for a terminal I can just use a laptop running a comm package that does VT100 emulation. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | | For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html |

28 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

Clock (off topic)

by chemif＠mbox.queen.it

At 13:29 09/01/98 -0800, Kip Crosby wrote: >Between Christmas and New Year's I was cleaning out my mother's house and >found a Texas Instruments TI-71, complete with its docs and warranty card. >This is a small, line-powered digital clock. Still works fine. > >What interests me here is that I recall hearing an unsupported contention, >years ago, that this was the _first_ commodity digital clock that used >seven-segment displays instead of flippers. Can anyone confirm or deny? Yes, more or less the "nostalgic taste" is more or less the same with all the '70 's innovations. I recall my first electronic watch: it was one of those black TI with red plastic display. Because of it's strong energy consumption, I had to replace the cells every year. ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ? Riccardo Romagnoli,collector of:CLASSIC COMPUTERS,TELETYPE UNITS,PHONE ? ? AND PHONECARDS I-47100 Forli'/Emilia-Romagna/Food Valley/ITALY ? ? Pager:DTMF PHONES=+39/16888(hear msg.and BEEP then 5130274*YOUR TEL.No.* ? ? where*=asterisk key | help visit http://www.tim.it/tldrin_eg/tlde03.html ? ? e-mail=chemif(a)mbox.queen.it ? ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

28 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

VAX11 programming book

by msf＠redhat.com

I saw a Boox by Tom somebody (sorry, forgot last name) on Vax-11 programming and assembly language at Barnes&Noble for $6. Its a big hard cover book. It was in the discount stack, if anyone is interested I'd get it and ship it at cost. You might want to check your local B&N and see if they can order it at that cost too. Michael Fulbright msf(a)redhat.com

28 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

linux

by allisonp＠world.std.com

Peter the folloing messages may be of interest to you. < ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- <<pjoules(a)lyndale-486.-> < < ----- Transcript of session follows ----- <553 lyndale-486.-. config error: mail loops back to me (MX problem?) <554 <pjoules(a)lyndale-486.->... Local configuration error The rest of the crowd may be interested in this. <Is your DOS box pure DOS or do you use Windows? <Do you use any networking software with DOS? Currently no networking with windows and it's windows 3.1. I call it dos box as unlike Win95 win3.x is layered on dos. I do however run trumpet(winsock), FreeAgent, winftp and Netscape3+ via modem to the ISP. <If you use windows 3.x then you will need to have a packet driver <installed via autoexec.bat for your network card and then just install <Trumpet Winsock and configure that. Then I need a packet driver for either purdata PDI8023plus-16 or DECPCA (DE100) card as that what I have. However if I do that how do I run trumpet for the modem and the NI? Allison

28 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

Free IBM system 36

by manney＠nwohio.com

> Look at how fast a CP/M system can be up and running Wordstar, compared to > a Win95 system running Word97. ...but try wordstar on a Win95 system! (Actually, I still sell a few 386 systems as dedicated, cheap systems for word processing.)

28 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

Free IBM system 36

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<>640K (or lately, 32Mb). And I suspect that anytime Allison has even <>4K at hand, she kicks some butt. As someone who has (and still does) develope hardware and software, Thank You! <"power user" t The original term is apple/mac in origin and was someone that knew the guts and made their system situp and bark(sometimes literally!). <Oh, and of late it seems to be more like 64Mb is the minimum to do anythi <with a PC suffering the Winbloat. I totally agree that these can't handl Even my biggest vax only 16meg, and my PC a measly 8mb and I run all that and winders<ok 3.1 I cheat ;)>. Code bloat has become fantastic. <stuff that any decently configured computer with less than 64k could do <Look at how fast a CP/M system can be up and running Wordstar, compared t <a Win95 system running Word97. As someone that has some 10mhz z80 systems, that is an understatement. I spent most of the 80s blowing the doors of PCs with PDP-11/23s and z80s. It wasn't till the 386/33s that that became a real contest in my eyes. At that point I started using old vaxen to make the race interesting. Allison

28 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

Free IBM system 36

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

>Received: from host (server(a)lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) > by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP > id PAA19170; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 15:49:56 -0800 >Received: from mx4.u.washington.edu (mx4.u.washington.edu [140.142.33.5]) > by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP > id PAA13830 for <classiccmp(a)lists.u.washington.edu>; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 15:49:34 -0800 >Received: from star1.intellistar.net (star1.intellistar.net [206.105.64.2]) > by mx4.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.09) with ESMTP > id PAA11635 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 15:49:32 -0800 >Received: from lizard ([206.105.68.14]) by star1.intellistar.net > (Post.Office MTA v3.1 release PO203a ID# 0-41809U2500L250S0) > with SMTP id AAA12 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; > Fri, 9 Jan 1998 18:49:26 -0500 >Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19980109194518.4e57ed1c(a)intellistar.net> >Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 19:45:18 >Reply-To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu >Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner(a)u.washington.edu >Precedence: bulk >From: Joe <rigdonj(a)intellistar.net> >To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> >Subject: Free IBM system 36 >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >X-Sender: rigdonj(a)intellistar.net >X-Priority: 1 (Highest) >X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN > >Found this in a news-group. > > Joe > >My company needs the space and wants to give away an IBM System/36, >immediately! We need it out of here ASAP. Runs great! You haul. Call Rick >at 505-982-5573 or email: rogick(a)roadrunner.com > >The equipment is as follows: > IBM System/36 Model 5360 > IBM 4234 Dot Band Printer > 6 IBM 3197 Color Workstations > Motorola Codex 2205 Modem > Dual Tape Backup by Fathom Technologies > About 6 5250 Emulation Cards (Short Length) >Everything works great! OK, here's my question: would I, as a "power user" have any non- romantic/nostalgic/etc. use for such a machine? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 3 months

5
5
0 0

Free System/36

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

actually, what i meant by the power-user comment was a person who is not afraid to use a black-and-white command prompt if it can help him/her do something. So, would a System/36 be good for me? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

IBM Rescue Needed -- New Mexico

by kyrrin2＠wizards.net

Heads up to any CLASSICCMP members in the Santa Fe area or nearby: Found this on Usenet from a fellow looking to clear out a System/36. If you can help, please contact the original author directly. Best of luck! -=-=- <snip> -=-=- Path: Supernews70!Supernews60!supernews.com!news.he.net!news.dra.com!nntp.mainstreet.net!feeder.swcp.com!fugu!SantaFe!not-for-mail From: rogick(a)roadrunner.com (Rick Byrne) Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc Subject: Free IBM System/36 and Peripherals Date: 9 Jan 1998 16:17:45 GMT Organization: NMML Lines: 14 Message-ID: <695ij9$rpg$8(a)santaclara.santafe.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: dial182.roadrunner.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.99.7 Xref: Supernews70 comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc:92489 My company needs the space and wants to give away an IBM System/36, immediately! We need it out of here ASAP. Runs great! You haul. Equipment is located in Santa Fe, New Mexico. Call Rick at 505-982-5573 or email: rogick(a)roadrunner.com The equipment is as follows: IBM System/36 Model 5360 IBM 4234 Dot Band Printer 6 IBM 3197 Color Workstations Motorola Codex 2205 Modem Dual Tape Backup by Fathom Technologies About 6 5250 Emulation Cards (Short Length) Everything works great! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, SysOp, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fido 1:343/272) kyrrin2 {at} wiz<ards> d[o]t n=e=t "...No matter how hard we may wish otherwise, our science can only describe an object, event, or living creature, in our own human terms. It cannot possibly define any of them!..."

28 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

[Fwd: Fwd: Very Important, read, react, forward]

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

Well, it's not going to affect all of us. I don't see how the government can even claim to control the Internet. (Watch how I so cleverly tangle classics into this. ;-) ) The Internet is like space: Something which is relatively (accesibly) new. With Space, an agreement was made saying how it belonged to all nations. (That's my understading) Now, ever since the first TCP was made on a PDP-11/?? (sorry, memory's a bit bad) The 'Net has been rapidly growing. It's truely international. Here, we've got examples. People from US-Europe-Asia-Austrilia are collecting classics. Now, is it legal for the (US) government to censor a message say going from Tony-Riccardo (In Italy) I mean, it might not even go through a US server. The Internet should be out of any government's controls. We should just have an open standard. Governments should be able to VOTE, on an equal basis of that with companies, etc. And then there are those "encryption standards" last summer.... wiped out any chance of brain activity in DC, outside of businesses.... Tim D. Hotze -----Original Message----- From: Ward Donald Griffiths III <gram(a)cnct.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Saturday, January 10, 1998 6:35 AM Subject: Re: [Fwd: Fwd: Very Important, read, react, forward] >Joe wrote: >> >> At 10:28 PM 1/8/98 -0600, you wrote: >> > >> >Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...two words...'topic' is one. 'off' is the other. >> > >> >=-) >> > >> >Anthony Clifton - Wirehead >> >> One more word ---- HOAX! Since when did the FCC start regulating the >> telephone industry? Phone rates are set by the individual state public >> service commisions not by the FCC. > >Sorry to say, it _does_ affect us (though yes, it's off-topic, but most >of us communicate through Internet links). The FedGov has a couple of >taxes on local phone bills for many years. And unless you've forgotten >the CDA, they want control over the Net, with special tools to decode >any messages someone wants private. Classic computers will not work >with those standards, of course. Yes, even if you aren't libertarian. >(I know damned well that there are one or two socialists on this list), >we can be affected -- we can be forbidden to communicate. And there >are at _least_ two attempts in progress to "reword" the CDA so that it >takes away just as much freedom but doesn't hit the federal judicial >hot buttons. > >Seems outrageous? The First Amendment covers everything. Presently. >transmitting Nobel's (the guy who funded the Prize) formula for >explosives is being watched by our "masters". Some of us collect >computers that may have been in government hands before the general >policy of "rip out the hard disk and hit it with the chainsaw" came >into effect. Other hobbies have been crippled by the government -- >remember guns (my next love after computers as computers are my next >love after science fiction)? Oh, it's platonic. >-- >Ward Griffiths >Dylan: How many years must some people exist, > before they're allowed to be free? >WDG3rd: If they "must" exist until they're "allowed", > they'll never be free.

28 years, 3 months

2
1
0 0

[Fwd: Fwd: Very Important, read, react, forward]

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

At 10:28 PM 1/8/98 -0600, you wrote: > >Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...two words...'topic' is one. 'off' is the other. > >=-) > >Anthony Clifton - Wirehead One more word ---- HOAX! Since when did the FCC start regulating the telephone industry? Phone rates are set by the individual state public service commisions not by the FCC. Joe > >On Thu, 8 Jan 1998, will emerson wrote: > >> >> >

28 years, 3 months

3
3
0 0

Free IBM system 36

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

Found this in a news-group. Joe My company needs the space and wants to give away an IBM System/36, immediately! We need it out of here ASAP. Runs great! You haul. Call Rick at 505-982-5573 or email: rogick(a)roadrunner.com The equipment is as follows: IBM System/36 Model 5360 IBM 4234 Dot Band Printer 6 IBM 3197 Color Workstations Motorola Codex 2205 Modem Dual Tape Backup by Fathom Technologies About 6 5250 Emulation Cards (Short Length) Everything works great!

28 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

The IBM PS/2 model 70 again! -E61

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 98-01-08 22:43:53 EST, you write: << I have a couple of junk Model 30's if anyone... My vote goes to the Model 25 as the most horrid computer PC of all time. Unexpandable, impossible to work on. Ick! >> actually, i think its kind of neat in a strange way. all in one form factor, like a compact mac. in fact, the IBM Eduquests are built the same way. the only bad part is expandability and if the monitor or power supply dies, you're finished. david

28 years, 3 months

2
1
0 0

Clock (off topic)

by engine＠chac.org

Between Christmas and New Year's I was cleaning out my mother's house and found a Texas Instruments TI-71, complete with its docs and warranty card. This is a small, line-powered digital clock. Still works fine. What interests me here is that I recall hearing an unsupported contention, years ago, that this was the _first_ commodity digital clock that used seven-segment displays instead of flippers. Can anyone confirm or deny? Tony, you probably know this one. TIA, __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine(a)chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California

28 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

SwTPC web page

by yakowenk＠cs.unc.edu

Well, it isn't impressive yet, but there isn't much point to keeping it hidden either. So, here's the URL for my beginnings of a web page for SwTPC - Soutwest Technical Products Corp: http://www.cs.unc.edu/~yakowenk/swtpc Hope you like it. Bill.

28 years, 3 months

2
1
0 0

archiving history (was: Tektronix Workstations)

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 10:12 AM 1/8/98 -0500, you wrote: >Tektronix made a number of interesting UN*X workstations (their flavor [...snip-o-rama...] >The following is some info about these that I collected from someone >who worked at Tektronix during the time: [...snipitty-doo-dah...] >The Magnolia was a proof-of-concept design, built in small quantities for [...snipola...] >Here's a quick run-down (somewhat chronological): [...schnippy...] This is the kind of info that I really believe should be archived on the web for all eternity. I don't own a tektronix ws now, so although interesting, it's not something I really want to clutter up my email folders with. However, I might just get one next week. In which case, I'd really want this info. But, I wouldn't want to bother Bill for it again (and again and again...). If it were on a web page somewhere, a search in Alta Vista (or whichever search engine one used) would turn it up. So, I would like to *really* encourage people who have this sort of info to put it on the web. Of course, it's all fine and dandy for me to say that (especially when I have yet to get *my* collection online!) when I know you all have more important things to do and more important stuff to fill your webspace with. So, I'll offer to host and html-ize any stuff like this anyone wants to send me. Just dump it (any kind of: history, folklore, specs, special commands, secret codes, easter eggs, power supply voltages, etc.) in an e-mail and send it to me at <roger(a)sinasohn.com> and I'll get it on-line. (It won't necessarily be beautiful, but it will be useable.) Thanks! --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 3 months

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Big "B", update

by william＠ans.net

For the sake of those reader not too thrilled about the current Linux and x86 threads (zzzzz...), I offer the following update... I received a bit mopre information about the units, and either they are all pieces of a single Burroughs machine, or several individual machines. What is not clear is what model they are. I hope to get more information soon. The current owners have the things half buried in surplus junk (probably good stuff, too!), so I may need to prod them along. Does anyone on this list have any sort of data on Burroughs machines? I would like to get some sort of summary on the different models before taking any possible plunges into the "real big iron" world. William Donzelli william(a)ans.net

28 years, 3 months

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Misc.

by dcoward＠pressstart.com

I just picked up a RCA Ascii keyboard. Does anyone have the pinout for it's connector? --------------------------------------------- I got this email today ( I think it's classic computer related), but I can't read Spanish. Can anyone help this person?

28 years, 3 months

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VUPs to MIPS

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<With the current battle between RISC and CISC, MIPS now really is <"Meaningless Information Provided by Salesman". Technically, by the <current philosophy, an 8080 is a CISC processor. Go figure. Actually it's a partial indicator of execution speed and only a partial indicator of an systems capability. 8080 is CISC, instructions are complex(some are) and are expected to take many clock cycles. RISC by definition is at most two clock cycles to execute a given instruction. Generally RISC machines can perform several arithmetic/logical operations in one instruction making them look CISCier. They are also generally weak in addressing data as there are few addresing modes and rely on lots of registers for pointers. The problem with RISC is that compilers have to work hard to use the full capability of the cpu. VAX is CISC to the max with an extremely rich instruction set and addressing modes. FYI the VAX inherits most of the base instuctions from the PDP-11 which is the also very CISC. Now all this is nice when instructions are executed one at a time like the 8080 or 6502 did. This became meaningless with later VAXen that were more piplined so that current instruction execution overlapped the next. The 8088 also does this albeit weakly. With the RISC machines also doing super pipining the number of clock cycles became less meaningful and the "MIPS" did as well. Adding things like caches complicates this more as a cache flush or processor lock can really tie things up for long periods of time affecting performance. VAX VUPs are a more subjective standard as they are a measure of the system rather than the bare cpu SPECint92 is similar in that respect as doing real work generally makes the system a slave to outside influences like the disk system data rates and memory system size. A good example of this is that 6mhz Z80 can execute instructions at or about 1mips but IO to the average floppy is slow enough to make that cpu wait about 1-2 seconds for 16k of data. The disk systems for machines like Vaxen are designed to supply data at 20-1000 times that data rate. So if you sorting data (say a data files that is 16mb in size) the disk systems are also a big factor no matter what the system as the data and program will not for in local memory. Even with huge memories in the 100s of megabytes it's not always efficient(or possible with multitasking) to copy from disk to ram and sort then copy it back. Just a peak under the hood. Allison

28 years, 3 months

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FW: IBM Magnetic cards

by manney＠nwohio.com

> I haven't seen a mag card reader of any 'stripe' in many years. Several HP calculators used 'em for awhile. The HP-41C had a motorized reader, while the -75 and (later) the 71B of fond memory used hand-pulled strips. I bought my 71 in '87, iirc. Hey -- I just realized -- it's a classic! Makes me feel OLD.

28 years, 3 months

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translating...

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 04:47 PM 1/8/98 -0800, you wrote: >I got this email today ( I think it's classic computer related), but >I can't read Spanish. Can anyone help this person? I can't read spanish, but I can pass on this URL: <http://babelfish.altavista.digital.com/> which lets you enter either a bunch of text or a URL and it will translate it for you. Pretty neat, although far from perfect. Can at least get you an idea of what that german/spanish/french classic computer page is talking about. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 3 months

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sale in Portland this weekend

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 01:51 PM 1/8/98 -0500, you wrote: >> I got an e-mail from InnFoGraphics Warehouse Liquidation, of a sale > >I plan on going down from Seattle on Saturday morning. Anybody else going? I can't make it (a bit far from San Francisco), but I'd be happy provide you with a shopping list. 8^) (Actually, it's pretty simple: any portable computers smaller large-laptop-size or smaller, $10 or less. 8^) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 3 months

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OLD PC's

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 01:28 PM 1/8/98 -0500, you wrote: >I think the inner city schools would have a better use for these machines, >or maybe special afterschool programs, or even donating them to under >priveledged kids locally. a lot of local programs certainly have *need* for them, but they would probably see more *use* overseas. The problem with older (and certainly very viable and useful) equipment in this country is getting it into operation, maintaining it, and putting it to work with software other than what one buys at CompUSA. I'd be happy to discuss this further (I am somewhat involved in this sort of thing myself) but I think it best kept to private e-mail (or the various newsgroups/mailing lists about the subject.) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 3 months

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C-64c, How common?

by healyzh＠ix.netcom.com

I'm starting to wonder about how common the C-64c is. I have yet to see one, I picked up the manuals when a favorite bookstore had a set a few months back. Then last weekend I was at the bookstore and they had like 3 or 4 sets of manual. But like I said I've never seen an actual computer! Functionally are they any different from a standard 64? Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | | For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html |

28 years, 3 months

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linux

by allisonp＠world.std.com

To quote the good doctor "it lives". Finally I've gotten linux (slakware V3) to install on the 386, I finally stripped the disk of the semifunctional version that wouldn't boot and installed it fresh and it seems to run properly. More importantly it boots properly on power up. Right now X-win is not installed as 8meg is all it's got. One annoying thing is the autoprobe for CDrom, it's slow. Generally the speed is good. What has me fully baffeled is there is now clue what I've done different since the last three times. Now the next task is getting SLIP or PPP going so that it can access the internet. Then I want to get x-windows and it's related tools going. I also have to get an IP stack going on the dosbox to share files. Any experts out there? Allison

28 years, 3 months

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Classic Macs mailing list?

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 09:26 AM 12/1/97 -0600, you wrote: > I'm interested in the classic Macs mailing list (I have a Plus). >Where do I sign up? Okay, so I'm inefficient and disorganized... 8^) I was going through some old mail and realized I never forwarded the info about the classic macs list. So, here it is: ----------------------------------------- To subscribe to Classic Macs, send e-mail to <Majordomo(a)hitznet.com>. In the body of the message write subscribe classics You will be added within a day. _______________________________________________________ If you are new to the list, please take time to visit the Classic Macs archives. Many, many common questions have been asked already and you may find what you seek in previous posts. This will save the list members much time in not having to pore over frequently asked and answered questions many times. The Classic Macs Archives are found at: http://www.zws.com/classicmacs/ Thanks to Lewin A.R.W. Edwards for maintaining and hosting the archives. _______________________________________________________ --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 3 months

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[Fwd: Fwd: Very Important, read, react, forward]

by wpe＠interserv.com

28 years, 3 months

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The IBM PS/2 model 70 again! -E61

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< My vote goes to the Model 25 as the most horrid computer PC of all time < Unexpandable, impossible to work on. Ick! >> < <actually, i think its kind of neat in a strange way. all in one form fact Actually I had a PS2/25 here and while the number of slots were limited I did put a 420meg hard disk(using a ISA-8 to IDE adaptor board) and a 14.4 modem in it for a friend and there was two slots left. It was tiny. When she retired it for a 386 I took the motherboard out and used the PS and the disks for a SB180 systemwith a scsi disk. It's form factor was just right. Now the disks are 3.5" 782k cpm/qd format and the 20mb scsi disk has a home in keeping with the 7"x3" sb180 (z180, 256k ram, scsi) board. Nice little CP/m (zcpr) system. I kept the M25 board as it's a pretty sane 8086 xt-turbo board. Allison

28 years, 3 months

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OLD PC's

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

-----Original Message----- From: Uncle Roger <sinasohn(a)ricochet.net> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Friday, January 09, 1998 5:10 AM Subject: Re: OLD PC's >At 09:11 PM 1/8/98 +0300, you wrote: >>The problem with this guies theroies: In this 3rd world country, schools >>have MMX machines. > >Perhaps, but is that: > >a) Schools for dependents of US citizens working for US > companies in Bahrain, No, there's only one of those. (It's a DoDDs school) They've got 286's in classrooms, 386's in science labs, 486's in 3 computer labs, and Pentiums in the library and a new computer lab. They're trying to replace the 486's, so that they move the 486's in the classrooms, but the new Pentiums will have to run Windows 3.1, as that's what they're doing now. >b) local schools in an wealthy country (i.e., the government > is wealthy even if the citizenry isn't) No, the government is relatively wealthy, but the local schools mostly have 386's and 486's. I haven't visited many, so don't bind me by that. >c) only the schools located in the major cities? Major cities? Here? (Ask Zane) ;-) >In the philippines, it ain't true. Heck, my girlfriend's sister-in-law's >family doesn't even have a telephone. Yep. But there are lots of immigrants from the Philippines here, but the thing is, I'd think taht they're better back home. I mean, here, they get paid around $150 a month for 12hrs a day, and 7 days a week. And to think that they call it third world... (should be eighth or so...) :-( >There is a company here in San Francisco that ships hundreds (if not >thousands) of older PC's and such overseas *everyday*. They're huge, and >it's really an amazing operation. And yes, they occassionally get some >classic computers worth saving. Yes, or, what they could do at the school is give them to student's who can't afford computers. WP 5.1 will run on a 286, you can get Windows 3.1 out of 'em, they'll run almost all DOS software. (Well, except for games, etc.) And, when finished with an early Epson dot-matrix, they make machines that are good for doing reports, PrintShop, etc. Tim D. Hotze

28 years, 3 months

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archiving history (was: Tektronix Workstations

by manney＠nwohio.com

> So, I'll offer to host and html-ize any stuff like this anyone wants to send > me. Just dump it (any kind of: history, folklore, specs, special commands, > secret codes, easter eggs, power supply voltages, etc.) in an e-mail and > send it to me at <roger(a)sinasohn.com> and I'll get it on-line. (It won't > necessarily be beautiful, but it will be useable.) Great idea. The manuals may survive, but the folklore that's batted about this -- and other discussion groups -- is as ephemeral as it is precious. My grandkids are (i hope) gonna want to know what it felt like to sit at a keyboard, to write a program, to swap out a drive...

28 years, 3 months

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operating systems

by higginbo＠netpath.net

At 06:20 PM 1/3/98 -0500, you wrote: >Well, frogger is a good example of why not. I see they're bringing it out >again. Okay, so you own a new computer, maybe a P200 mmx and you have this old copy of frogger, from your XT days... If this old copy gets out on the internet or elsewhere, is it going to affect sales of the new Frogger version? I've seen screen shots of this new game... It's alot different, majorly different than the older versions. Alot of 3d stuff going on in there. Now say someone finds that copy of frogger on the internet and downloads it to play on his XT. How does this affect the sale of the new version? You could technically say it does, because if this XT user really wanted the new version of frogger, he'd have a major upgrade path ahead of him, maybe as much as 20 times as the new frogger game costs. >Copyrights are what? 37 years? As someone who produces intellectual >property (Photos and -- occasionally -- software), I appreciate copyright >protection. Sure, I have no problem with recent software protection, but in this case, the game isn't even being sold in it's original form anymore, running on computers that aren't made anymore. Maybe if software companies would take these old titles and put them up on the internet, maybe take online orders for them and charge a very low cost for the games, maybe around $1.00, people might just buy them instead of making "illegal" copies of them. But they don't. Most companies don't even offer support for software that old. I've had that happen numerous times when I'd try to contact a company to get a replacement disk for one that went bad. No dice. Some of the people answering the phone didn't even know they had published the game. - John Higginbotham - limbo.netpath.net

28 years, 3 months

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The IBM PS/2 model 70 again! -E61

by manney＠nwohio.com

I have a couple of junk Model 30's if anyone... My vote goes to the Model 25 as the most horrid computer PC of all time. Unexpandable, impossible to work on. Ick! manney(a)nwohio.com

28 years, 3 months

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C-64c, How common?

by manney＠nwohio.com

> I'm starting to wonder about how common the C-64c is. I have yet to see > one, I picked up the manuals when a favorite bookstore had a set a few > months back. Then last weekend I was at the bookstore and they had like 3 > or 4 sets of manual. But like I said I've never seen an actual computer! > > Functionally are they any different from a standard 64? No. I have 3 of 'em. (Nyaah Nyaah! :) Ya want one? manney(a)nwohio.com

28 years, 3 months

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Geoworks

by manney＠nwohio.com

Zeus334(a)aol.com, who are you? My mail bounced back. I have both Geoworks and Geos. manney(a)nwohio.com

28 years, 3 months

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VUPs to MIPS

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<I'm not that well up in modern processor design, but I've never heard of <that definition. In fact the ARM becomes CISC by it, I think (?). That was part of the mid 80s def, but by no means an exclusive item. The ARM used more clocks but not many. The early defininition was simply Reduced Instruction Set and raw speed to make up for it. A PDP-8 would qualify in many respects as it has about the smallest useful instruction set going. It's biggest feature is the lack of complexity that allowed CPUs like the ARM and MIPS to be very fast as they were very simple compared to say the 386, the result was the amount of silicon required was less and production costs are lower. Some side effects of the smaller die(fewer transistors) were improved testability, lower power and less heat with attendant higher relibility. Most smaller RISC chips are 10s of thousands of transistors compared to millions in most of the CISC designs. Allison

28 years, 3 months

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VUPs to MIPS

by jfoust＠threedee.com

It would be interesting to attempt to graph the MIPS/VUP/MIPS/Whetstones/etc. of ancient and contemporary computers, using some approximation of comparable units. It would be fun to recognize that, say, one of my old computers was just as fast as an IBM AT, but was available five years before. - John

28 years, 3 months

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YA UN*X for DEC MIPS

by pvhp＠forte.com

classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu Subj: YA UN*X for DEC MIPS It seems there is/may-be yet another unix workalike for DEC MIPS machines.

28 years, 3 months

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sale in Portland this weekend

by jfoust＠threedee.com

I got an e-mail from InnFoGraphics Warehouse Liquidation, of a sale January 10 and 11, 733 SE 9th Ave. (Upstairs), Portland, OR 97214 with : "Chieftan S50, S100, Morrow, Altos, Nec, XORI, Kaypro, Xerox, Mindset, OSM Zeus, DEC computers, 11/73, 11/44, Vax 11/730, HSC50, RA60, TU 81 Plus, RA 81s, 486 & 386 PCs" etc. and lots more radio / TV / electronics, see <http://members.aol.com/innfograph/index.htm> for more info. - John

28 years, 3 months

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OLD PC's

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 09:11 PM 1/8/98 +0300, you wrote: >The problem with this guies theroies: In this 3rd world country, schools >have MMX machines. Perhaps, but is that: a) Schools for dependents of US citizens working for US companies in Bahrain, b) local schools in an wealthy country (i.e., the government is wealthy even if the citizenry isn't) c) only the schools located in the major cities? In the philippines, it ain't true. Heck, my girlfriend's sister-in-law's family doesn't even have a telephone. There is a company here in San Francisco that ships hundreds (if not thousands) of older PC's and such overseas *everyday*. They're huge, and it's really an amazing operation. And yes, they occassionally get some classic computers worth saving. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 3 months

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HP3000 editor (was: Frank knows his stuff)

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 05:22 PM 1/6/98 -0500, you wrote: > Qedit >> is an incredible editor while MPEX extends the capabilities of the OS. > >Yeah, but they want something like $90 for it! I found another, that's free >(even has spell check). Will send to anyone on request. If Qedit for the HP3000 is only $90, you'd be well off to purchase it! Especially if you're planning on any kind of development. On the other hand, I believe there is a PC editor with the same name (unrelated and not as good.) (Best Windows editor I've seen is Programmer's File Editor -- $0, and the guy wouldn't take money when I wanted to send him some! This is off topic, email me for details.) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 3 months

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Mac IIci, was [Re: The IBM PS/2 model 70 again! -E61]

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 07:47 PM 1/7/98 EST, you wrote: >I like the IIcis. They're cute little things. Pretty fast, too. The only The IIci is probably my favorite classic mac (other than the portable, perhaps). Great case, compact and easy to work on. Built-in video too. >years. They have two problems. One is that the monitors power up >intermittently, probably due to the transformer. Ideas? The other is the disk The monitor is separate, kinda irrelevant to the CPU. If the monitor is bad, just get a new monitor. (they can, as someone mentioned, run a VGA monitor with the right adapter.) >drives. They were all blown out with compressed air, but still didn't start >working correctly. Ideas? I assume you mean the floppy drives. Again, they can be replaced, although mac floppy drives aren't cheap. Depending on your exact situation, you can often get away without a working floppy. (If you mean the hard drive, that's even easier; it's a standard 3.5" scsi drive.) The IIci can run a CD-ROM drive, connect to the internet, and do just about anything you'd like. Rachel's got 3 (I think) of them in her classroom, plus one at home (her first computer, now her niece's). --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 3 months

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Seeking info on a PA63 unit

by jimw＠agora.rdrop.com

Ok, here's an odd one... In a recent stack of items that I picked up, I came across a chassis with a status indicator panel suggesting that it was some type of reader/punch controller, and an id tag reading "Model PA63". It is obviously a DEC unit, but I've never seen any information on such a thing that I can recall. A more or less DEC standard looking wire wrapped backplane, standard 19 inch chassis about 6 inchec tall, and three fans. No power supply, but a large cable off of the backplane that looks like it was intended to connect to an external supply. Status displays for reader and punch data and status, and a reader and punch 'unit select' display. I keep thinking that if it turns out to be interesting, I might want to restore it and install it on one of my systems. But, I'll need some info and a set of prints to make any headway. Anyone familiar with this beast? -jim --- jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174

28 years, 3 months

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OLD PC's

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

The problem with this guies theroies: In this 3rd world country, schools have MMX machines. -----Original Message----- From: Lawrence T. Mathison <LMATHISON(a)BCPS.ORG> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Thursday, January 08, 1998 5:40 PM Subject: OLD PC's >The Baltimore County Public Schools have 100's of old (286 & earlier) PC >that need a disposal outlet. We are looking for companies that buy old >machines for resale in third-world countries. Any info that you have >that will help us to identifiy companies in this business will be >greatly appreciated. Larry Mathison (410) 887-7838, >LMATHISON(a)BCPS.ORG. > >

28 years, 3 months

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FW: IBM Magnetic cards

by engine＠chac.org

From: Kimberley Weathers <kweather(a)bcm.tmc.edu> Subject: IBM Magnetic cards I work at Baylor College of Medicine in Houston, in their archives. I found these cards are shaped like a punch card, but look like a floppy diskette without the cover. They're from about 1976, and I can't find anyone, not even at IBM, to read them. Any ideas? I know that after all this they may not even work, but it's worth a try, because this looks like important info. Any suggestions? Thank you, Kimberley Weathers kweather(a)bcm.tmc.edu __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine(a)chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California

28 years, 3 months

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Tektronix 6132 workstations

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<From CLASSICCMP-owner(a)u.washington.edu Thu Jan 8 15:08:02 1998 ^^^^^ <Do you mean a National Semi 32000 class cpu? Kewl. Boy, those were <hot, hot, hot when they hit the market in the early 80's. National <did everything right on this one: Full object code compatibility <between the 8,16 and 32 bit versions of the device; truly orthogonal <instruction set, and so on. Mondo cool. It also was THE FIRST true <32-bit cpu on the market (according to an EDN magazine article). Look at that one and then look at VAX... the similarity is very strong. <Did I say National did everything right? Yes. Well, depends on how <you look at it. You couldn't run dos or CP/M on it. This, I <suppose, was it's fatal 'flaw' (although I am of the opinion that <that such compatibility would be a major DEFECT, but never mind). The problem was it was late and only the slow ones with no second source. <That and National didn't market the device very well, although <it was used in alot of embedded applications. I wonder how much <further it would have gone, had the free Unices we have today been <available back then . . . . The lack of OS support, lack of a perceived need for 32bits, late entry into the market, poor marketing and the 808x and 68k being both well embedded in the market were factors that could not be missed. Allison

28 years, 3 months

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C-64c, How common?

by lfb107＠psu.edu

At 11:23 PM 8/8/97 -0700, Cord Coslor wrote: >I have a C64c, although I haven't found them to be very common. This unit may >be for sell as well if anyone is looking for one. Also, I too found a C64 in a >third party case that looked just like the c-64... and it also was made in >Australia. I can get this for anyone that might want this unit as well. Let me >know. > >CORD COSLOR I have heard that there were about 1 million of these produced with about 3 different subtle kinds made. (Different LED's, new vs old style keyboards, etc.) Of course, compared to the 9+ million 64's produced I guess that means that 64c's are *relatively* uncommon. Les

28 years, 3 months

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Tektronix 6132 workstations

by IVIE＠cc.usu.edu

><Do you mean a National Semi 32000 class cpu? Kewl. Boy, those were ><hot, hot, hot when they hit the market in the early 80's. National ><did everything right on this one: Full object code compatibility ><between the 8,16 and 32 bit versions of the device; truly orthogonal ><instruction set, and so on. Mondo cool. It also was THE FIRST true ><32-bit cpu on the market (according to an EDN magazine article). > >Look at that one and then look at VAX... the similarity is very strong. I don't know; I didn't see it. To me, a processor architecture is hung off the register structure and how the registers are used. When I read the introductory chapters of the NS32 book, I got all excited, but when I actually waded through the description of the machine I felt let down. The thing about the VAX is that the entire machine is built around the general purpose register set. Things that are special in other architectures (immediate values, pushing and popping the stack) are simply side effects of everyday addressing modes on the VAX. You can pop things from the stack because you can pop them from any register; MOV R0,(R1)+ works just as well as MOV R0,(SP)+. Immediate values are fundamentally popping things from the PC: MOV R0,(PC)+. The NS32K required special address modes for these operations because SP and PC weren't general purpose registers. I'm also not impressed by folks who claim that a 68000 is a whole lot like a PDP-11 for the same reason... Roger Ivie ivie(a)cc.usu.edu

28 years, 3 months

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How does microcode work??

by IVIE＠cc.usu.edu

> Inutitively I know what microcode is. I think of it as hard-coded ROM >for the instruction fetch unit of the microprocessor. Since I haven't been >formally schooled in computer science or microprocessor design, I'd like to >understand (in 500 words or less <g>) how microcode works, i.e., how is it >implemented and how does the microprocessor access it. The problem is that doing it right takes a picture... A computer is built from (among other things) a whole grundle of state machines. A state machine is a circuit that, at each clock cycle, uses some number of inputs and its current state and uses them to generate some number of outputs. The current state is a set of outputs that are fed back into the machine; that is, they are outputs that become inputs to the "next state generator", the logic which figures out what the outputs should be at the next clock. The next state generator is a complex piece of logic, especially for a machine with a lot of states; the next state generator for a state machine with, say, 256 states has 8 inputs just for the state variables! Designing the next state generator for a state machine as complex as the control unit of a CPU is very difficult and error-prone. Microcode is simply a technique which replaces the logic of the next state generator with a ROM. The inputs (including the current state) are fed into the address of the ROM and the data from the ROM are taken to be the outputs for the next state. Instead of implementing the logic by tossing around gates, you implement the logic by building a lookup table in the microcode ROM. Roger Ivie ivie(a)cc.usu.edu

28 years, 3 months

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The IBM PS/2 model 70 again! -E61

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 98-01-07 20:19:54 EST, you write: << David, how cheap did you gotten some of these parts through this mail list? Model 77? I do not know this specs, kindly tell me what about this? :) My book does not list this Model 77. >> as far as the ps2 models i own go, my brother gave me the two model 30s. the place where he used to work at had round filed them, so he rescued them for me. the 8086 model was complete with a 4869 floppy drive and 8503 monitor! works great and had data on it dated up to 1991. the model 77 is a premium class ps2 machine announed in 1993 or 1994 i think so doesnt really apply to discussion here although it has mca architecture with is 10 years old. mine is a 9577-ouf which is a 486sx 33. full scsi, 2.88 floppy. 2-400 meg scsi drives and 16 meg which is max i think. i found a mca scsi adaptor at a radio rally for $1. tests ok, but its not a caching controller. this ps2 could support as many scsi drives as there are drive letters to support them, btw. david

28 years, 3 months

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Wtd: ESDI 3.5" hd + hd ?'s

by manney＠nwohio.com

> > MFM (early 80's?) > > Very early 80's, I think, for the ST-506. > > > RLL (late 80's?) > > I tend to think of this as a minor variation of MFM, myself :-) Not quite. The interface is the same (ST-506/412), but the encoding is different. RLL-encoded ST-506/412 drives were finicky, especially as regards temperature -- you shouldn't LLF them cold, for example. Actually, some (if not all) IDE's use variations of RLL encoding.

28 years, 3 months

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The IBM PS/2 model 70 again! -E61

by scottk5＠ibm.net

One of the best sources for used parts for PS/2's I've found is Skip Paret in Florida. (skip(a)bcp.mhs.compuserve.com) His company is Business Computer Products: phone: (voice) 904-760-9300 (fax). Also since I collect PS/2's I have found the newsgroup comp.sys.ibm.ps2.hardware to be an excellent source of parts and info. There you will also find that amazing German, Peter Wendt, quite possibly the world's greatest living authority on PS/2's! And there is also quite a stash of them downstairs, mostly Model 25's, 30's. 55's, 50Z's, 70's, and 80's. A lot of the auxiliary parts from model 80's will work on the 70's. so if there is something in particular you need, please let me know. Kirk Scott scottk5(a)ibm.net On 1998-01-08 Tim said: >Well, I've found a source of PS/2 parts/systems, but it'll cost. >It's a company. They seem to have tons of the stuff. Their URL is >http://www.kahlon.com . The problem is that they list(ed) a Model >55SX as $249, but that did include a monitor. Well, you could >probably say that you collect classics and that that price is way >out of whack, but that might not work.... >Tim D. Hotze Net-Tamer V 1.09.2 - Test Drive

28 years, 3 months

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Tektronix Workstations

by Bill_von_Hagen＠transarc.com

Tektronix made a number of interesting UN*X workstations (their flavor was called UTek) in the early/mid eighties, finally hanging it up around 1990 after releasing a Motorola 88K-based machine called the XD88 series. Earlier Tek workstations were the Magnolia, the 4XXX series, the 613X series, and the 6205. The 6205 and 6130 were based on the National Semiconductor 32032 processor - the 6130 was a desk-top that actually made it to market. The 6205 was a floor-standing "tower" version that was faster and more expandable, but which never sriously made it to the commercial market, as far as I know. The 43XX and 44XX boxes were very cool, too - these ran UTek or Smalltalk. As with all Tek products, all of these systems had fantastic graphics for their time. I have various of these machines (6205, 6132, etc.). I can probably copy some docs for you if you'd like. Let me know. Bill The following is some info about these that I collected from someone who worked at Tektronix during the time: The Magnolia was a proof-of-concept design, built in small quantities for internal use only. It had two 68000 processors, one for general use, and one for display only. It was a floor-standing cube about 18" per side. I believe it ran BSD Unix and used VME cards. My guess is there were some 20-50 built. My understanding is that the design was not easily "productized," meaning EL approval, inexpensive, etc. It had some custom hybrid ICs in it that apparently cost a mint to make. The Magnolia people and the 6000-line people were at war over processors and OS's. The 6000 line eventually lost -- the Magnolia people eventually produced the 4000-line, which were based on Motorola processors and an awful UNIX clone called Uniflex. Once the 6000-line died, it became politically possible to port UTek to the 4000-line boxes, and their names changed. Here's a quick run-down (somewhat chronological): Magnolia -- Tek-internal-only, integrated bitmap display, dual 68000, BSD Unix, VME?. 6205 -- only a few sold, Futurebus, NS32032, integrated display subsystem never really worked. 6130 -- NS32032 desk-top, not expandable, integrated display subsystem never really worked terribly well, usually used with a serial console. 4404 -- 68000, all-in-one with integrated 15" monochrome display, Uniflex OS. 4406 -- 68202, all-in-one with integrated 19", 4-bit gray display, Uniflex OS. Extremely sharp, but short-lived, internally produced CRT -- I'd be amazed if any of these are still working. The displays regulary started getting dim about a month after the warranty expired. 4407 -- same as 4406, but with a Hitachi color monitor. 4404+ -- internal-only, the 4404 with a 68010 daughtercard and MMU so it can run UTek. 4315 -- 4404 package with a 68020 processor, UTek. 4316 -- 4406 with minor changes, running UTek. Same dismal CRT. 4317 -- 4407 with minor changes, running UTek. It's been a while, some of these numbers might be off by a digit or so...

28 years, 3 months

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Tektronix 6132 workstations

by Philip.Belben＠powertech.co.uk

>><I've got a line on a Tektronix 6132 workstations, and I'm wondering what >><exactly it is. According to the current owner it runs Berkeley UNIX ver >><4.2 with some 4.3 extensions. Apparently it's been sitting in a closet >><unused for the last 8 years, so who knows if it's working. He also >><referred to it as a UTek workstation. >>< >><I didn't even know Tek made any computers, and web searches bring up zilc >> >>Look inside it may be a DEC PDP-11 series machine in differnt garb. >> >>Allison > >Ack, don't get my hopes up! Sounds like I'll have to arrange to pick this >beast up sooner than expected :^) Um. I'm not familiar with the Tek 6000 series at all, although the description "Workstation" makes me suspect that it's not a PDP. (That is purely a guess - I shall be happy to be proven wrong) In the late 1970s and early '80s Tek made the 4050 series. These were almost workstations - personal machines built around a vector storage CRT. The 4051 (earliest) seems to have used a 6800 micro as its CPU. This was replaced in the 4052 and 4054 by a bitslice machine which appeared to be a 25 MHz 6800-alike with some extra instructions. Fun machines. I have a 4052, BTW. Recent web searches, researching a talk I was giving on these machines, did indeed bring up practically nothing - all I discovered was that the Dutch computer museum also has a 4052, Hans Pufal's list mentions them, and that a company I had once met in a quite different context started life making software for these machines. Otherwise, no results from any search engine I tried. (The Tektronix site has narry a mention) So, when you do get hold of this, please tell us all about it. Philip.

28 years, 3 months

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How does microcode work??

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< Inutitively I know what microcode is. I think of it as hard-coded RO <for the instruction fetch unit of the microprocessor. Since I haven't bee <formally schooled in computer science or microprocessor design, I'd like <understand (in 500 words or less <g>) how microcode works, i.e., how is i <implemented and how does the microprocessor access it. Microcode: In the simplest form it's the control program that runs the CPU. Every computer has it's instructions set, most we know like ADD A,B or MOV A,B. Those are called MACROinstructions. Microcode is the internal coding to actually create the sequence of timing pulses to actually make the ADD happen. The microcode resides in it own storage area and is generally inaccessable (there are exceptions). A typical sequence would be in english: macro instruction: ADD A,B Add contents of register A to register B and place results in A Start: Fetch an instruction (uses program counter register as address or source and destination is the "instruction register). Jump to address @I (use the instruction register as an address of the next microinstruction.) ADD: -signal add instruction to ALU -gate A register to ALU -gate B register to ALU -store ALU to A register (this could al be in one microinstruction or it could be a sequence of several.) jump to START (get next MACROinstuction) NOTE: microcoding is one way to construct a computer control, sequential logic is also possible but as the machines increase in complexity the logic complexity grows to sometimes implementable levels or becomes hard to correct if there is an error. Microcoding makes error correction easier and if new instruction need to be added it's possible if the code space exists. It's also easier to create a machine on paper or as a program that executes microcode to test it. Allison

28 years, 3 months

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OLD PC's

by LMATHISON＠BCPS.ORG

The Baltimore County Public Schools have 100's of old (286 & earlier) PC that need a disposal outlet. We are looking for companies that buy old machines for resale in third-world countries. Any info that you have that will help us to identifiy companies in this business will be greatly appreciated. Larry Mathison (410) 887-7838, LMATHISON(a)BCPS.ORG.

28 years, 3 months

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Wtd: ESDI 3.5" hd + hd ?'s

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<95% true, but using RLL on stepper is fine but the main problem was <when the maker produced drives to work with RLL used faster stepper No it wasn't due to a lot of factors. one being the interface cable length was more critical and since most stepper drives didn't recalibrate for temperature after while they tended to mistrack the data and RLL has a poorer signal to noise ratio so it would suffer more. <design (makers tends to pack with lastest on next generation and <leave the older alone instead of improving it more to pack more info <instead of increassing performance which is perferable.) and that <also include fast stepper type seeking on MFM drives as well. That's <where you see the trouble. Noisy stepper ones tends to wear out <than those ones that does quietly and slowly. This is a long winded way to say, we suffered from designs that were marginal from being pushed to far. <Voice coil is best way to up the performance and pack more info. It helps and is faster too but the overhead is the servo tracks or embedded servo info. That overhead on some dries is the loss of a side on one platter and that can represent a lot of data. Also the servo system is more complex and expensive. This is offset by lowered cost of hardware(electronics) as time progressed. Allison

28 years, 3 months

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I don't believe this ****

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

uh, right! and would you mind telling the audience how you crammed a square 386 chip into the xt's dip socket??? In a message dated 98-01-07 17:05:26 EST, you write: << [Overclocking] I once had a PC/XT overclocked to 25 or so MHz. It caught fire... Basically, I just pulled the chip marked 25 MHz from a dead 386 and put it where the XT's ship was. It took about 10 minutes to start emitting black smoke. This was before I knew they were useful... ------- >>

28 years, 3 months

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C-64c, How common?

by cgregory＠lrbcg.com

I have them all, i.e., 64, 64C, and a 64 in a 64C look alike case. Although not as common as the classic 64, the 64C is not at all rare. I found a complete one with a matching 1541C drive at a thrift the other day for $5. Among the Commodore community the consensus is that although functionally the same, some of the chips in the 64C had been upgraded (if I remember correctly, specificly the sound chips among others), and it is therefore more desirable than the standard 64. Cliff Gregory cgregory(a)lrbcg.com -----Original Message----- From: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> To: Cgregory <Cgregory> Date: Thursday, January 08, 1998 1:36 AM Subject: Re: C-64c, How common? > >Received: from lists2.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.1] by LRBCG.COM with smtp > id ABCEAFBJ ; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 01:36:04 -0500 >Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) > by lists2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP > id VAA13060; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 21:34:23 -0800 >Received: from mx5.u.washington.edu (mx5.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.6]) > by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP > id VAA41218 for <classiccmp(a)lists.u.washington.edu>; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 21:34:20 -0800 >Received: from iac12.navix.net (iac12.navix.net [207.91.5.12]) > by mx5.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.09) with ESMTP > id VAA05257 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 21:34:19 -0800 >Received: from navix.net (xyp99p14.ltec.net [205.242.158.24]) > by iac12.navix.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA27937 > for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 23:20:40 -0600 >Message-Id: <33EC0CF9.CA43793D(a)navix.net> >Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 23:23:54 -0700 >Reply-To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu >Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner(a)u.washington.edu >Precedence: bulk >From: Cord Coslor <archive(a)navix.net> >To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> >Subject: Re: C-64c, How common? >References: <199801080420.OAA02158(a)arthur.merlin.net.au> >X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN > >I have a C64c, although I haven't found them to be very common. This unit may >be for sell as well if anyone is looking for one. Also, I too found a C64 in a >third party case that looked just like the c-64... and it also was made in >Australia. I can get this for anyone that might want this unit as well. Let me >know. > >CORD COSLOR > >adam(a)merlin.net.au wrote: > >> >I'm starting to wonder about how common the C-64c is. I have yet to see >> >one, I picked up the manuals when a favorite bookstore had a set a few >> >months back. Then last weekend I was at the bookstore and they had like 3 >> >or 4 sets of manual. But like I said I've never seen an actual computer! >> >> I'm assuming you mean the different case design - over here (South >> Australia) they seem to be as common as the old breadbox sort, but I >> suspect that in numbers they are slightly less than the older designs. I >> have three of them, and I only wanted the one. As far as I know there are >> no functional changes, although Commodore had a history of working out >> ways to make systems cheaper, so there may be a difference internally. >> >> I did find one old C64 in a third-party case which looked very much like >> the C64c, though. Interestingly enough it was made here - I would have >> picked it up, but I shy away from collecting computers based on the >> different cases, as there are too many to collect just based on the >> different systems themselves, and space is limited. >> >> Adam. > > > >

28 years, 3 months

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The IBM PS/2 model 70 again! -E61

by jolminkh＠c2.telstra-mm.net.au

>Well, I've found a source of PS/2 parts/systems, but it'll cost. It's a >company. They seem to have tons of the stuff. Their URL is >http://www.kahlon.com . The problem is that they list(ed) a Model 55SX as >$249, but that did include a monitor. Well, you could probably say that you >collect classics and that that price is way out of whack, but that might not >work.... >Tim D. Hotze I suspect that here in Sydney, Australia the price of PS/2's is about to tumble to insignificance. It seems a lot of corporations bought whole networks of them in the early 90's and they are at the end of their usefulness when they move away from DOS/Win3.1 I have recently seen model 70 boxes advertised for $A30 and actually acquired a model 76 box for $A70, with 8Mb and 200Mb SCSI. (thats about $US20 and $US45)

28 years, 3 months

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VUPs to MIPS

by healyzh＠ix.netcom.com

I've gotten back to looking into getting the my VAXstation up and running. This has gotten me to thinking, how many MIPS is a VUP? Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | | For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html |

28 years, 3 months

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The IBM PS/2 model 70 again! -E61

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

Well, I've found a source of PS/2 parts/systems, but it'll cost. It's a company. They seem to have tons of the stuff. Their URL is http://www.kahlon.com . The problem is that they list(ed) a Model 55SX as $249, but that did include a monitor. Well, you could probably say that you collect classics and that that price is way out of whack, but that might not work.... Tim D. Hotze -----Original Message----- From: jpero(a)cgo.wave.ca <jpero(a)cgo.wave.ca> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Thursday, January 08, 1998 4:18 AM Subject: Re: The IBM PS/2 model 70 again! -E61 Hi! > I have this model in my collection. i managed to get it for $25 but have not > been able to test it since mine came with a radius two page display card which > is useless without the monitor. i finally did get a 1bit video card for it, > but now need to find a mono display for it which i still havent found! the cx > is a 68030 running at 16mhz. a better deal would be the IIci model which is > 25mhz and built in video which can be used with a vga monitor if you use a > special dongle. I noticed after I surfed the net, and I do remember it had no video card. BUMMER! If it was IIci, I would grab it. > RE: ps2 models; I have 3 of them: two 8530 and a 9577. the model 77 i bought > from work when they upgraded to pc300 desktops. two scsi adaptors, 16 meg, 200 > 400meg scsi drives running hpfs and os2 3.0. its an industrial strength > machine, and will probably outlive any other computer i own. David, how cheap did you gotten some of these parts through this mail list? Model 77? I do not know this specs, kindly tell me what about this? :) My book does not list this Model 77. Jason D. > david.

28 years, 3 months

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I don't believe this ****

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<I once had a PC/XT overclocked to 25 or so MHz. It caught fire... <Basically, I just pulled the chip marked 25 MHz from a dead 386 <and put it where the XT's ship was. It took about 10 minutes to start em I find this a good story. ;-) The fastest 8088 ever made was 10mhz if you squint it may hit 12. As far as putting a 386 in a 8088 socket...there is the matter of the 100 or so extra pins. Oh, if the 25 mhz clock was input to the 8284A then the cpu clock would be 8.333mhz... almost believable save for the rest of the logic on the xt board would not generally run that fast without adding waitstates. Allison

28 years, 3 months

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HP Integral PC

by fmc＠reanimators.org

Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote: > In fact what's really holding me back is that I don't have a > specification of the CS/80 or amigo command sets (the commands that HP > used for their drives, and which are sort-of a de-facto standard). If > anyone has this spec, I'll consider building this interface. Well, Tony, once upon a time I think I was thinking about sending you some chunks of the 7941/7945 service manual that describe some portion of the CS/80 protocol used by those devices. I vaguely recall it was enough of a subset that we came to the conclusion that it wouldn't help, but if you still think it would be useful send me your postal address and I will make a trip to the copy shop. Also it is my understanding that the "hp300" flavors of NetBSD and OpenBSD contain working code to talk to CS/80 devices. It may be in the 4.4-Lite BSD release, I think that is where I remember seeing it first. The CS/80 command-set reference is one of those manuals that HP Direct refused to sell me. I had the part number, and the HP Direct folks told me that it had been withdrawn from offer. Maybe I should give that another shot; it's been some years ago now. ... More vague memories: not all HP-IB discs talk CS/80. There was also a "subset" or "simple" protocol, SS/80. Was that "Amigo"? I can't remember. I think it is the protocol used by the 91xx discs, and those are what the Integral seems to recognize. -Frank McConnell

28 years, 3 months

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I don't believe this ****

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 05:46 PM 1/5/98 -0800, you wrote: >>It's recycling. Don't get pissed off. Look at it as an opportunity. They're in business to make money; they don't care about preserving history or any goody-two-shoes thing like that. So offer 'em 5 cents/pound more than the melters if you get first crack at older systems. And, contrary to what the media seems to think, continued used is actually better than recycling something. (Which is why I drive a 38 year old car rather than a brand new, *recyclable* one that doesn't get any better gas mileage.) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 3 months

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I don't believe this ****

by higginbo＠netpath.net

At 03:57 PM 1/6/98 +0300, you wrote: >586 compatible processor for 486/DX4 motherboards that works at 133MHz. >Those go for around $500. I had one of those. Had it overclocked to 160mhz, beat the pants of a P100. I think I paid $150 for the board and chip about a year and a half ago. I wonder what that'll look like next to the systems 10 years from now? -John Higginbotham- -limbo.netpath.net-

28 years, 3 months

3
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Anyone help this fellow?

by kyrrin2＠wizards.net

Found on Usenet. Please respond directly to him if you can help. -=-=- <snip> -=-=- Path: Supernews70!Supernews69!not-for-mail From: Dale Toney <dale(a)blueridge.net> Newsgroups: vmsnet.pdp-11 Subject: Looking for a PDP-11 Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 15:07:10 -0500 Organization: All USENET -- http://www.Supernews.com Lines: 10 Message-ID: <34B3E06E.2120EDF9(a)blueridge.net> Reply-To: dale(a)blueridge.net NNTP-Posting-Host: 15767(a)205.152.121.8 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) Xref: Supernews70 vmsnet.pdp-11:9088 Hi, I am in North Carolina and looking for a used pdp-11 to buy. I broke my teeth in on pdp-11's and vax/vms, and would like to find one to tinker with. Any help in locating one would be appreciated. thanks, -- Dale mailto:dale@blueridge.net -=-=- <pins> -=-=- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, SysOp, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fido 1:343/272) kyrrin2 {at} wiz<ards> d[o]t n=e=t "...No matter how hard we may wish otherwise, our science can only describe an object, event, or living creature, in our own human terms. It cannot possibly define any of them!..."

28 years, 3 months

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I don't believe this ****

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<I didn't put the 386 in the XT socket. I just pulled the clock xtal from <386 and put in in the XT. It wasn't a real IBM PC, it was a clone. <------- Bit more believable. A 25mhz crystal used on the 8284a nets 8.333 at the processor clock input and that would make a XT-turbo. The problem with such a speed up is that the peripherals and the ram have to be faster as well to keep up. I have a Leading Edge Mod D that I've tried that on and 6mhz(18mhz crystal) was possible before needing to add wait states for IO and memory. With one wait for both IO and mem 8mhz was doable. I wasn't overclocking the cpu as it was a 10mhz V20. I may add at 6mhz the average 8088 was likely to still be there as they were good for a shade over 5mhz for the slow parts. Allison

28 years, 3 months

1
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I don't believe this ****

by Zeus334＠aol.com

How fast did it run? In a message dated 98-01-07 17:05:26 EST, you write: << [Overclocking] I once had a PC/XT overclocked to 25 or so MHz. It caught fire... Basically, I just pulled the chip marked 25 MHz from a dead 386 and put it where the XT's ship was. It took about 10 minutes to start emitting black smoke. This was before I knew they were useful... ------- >>

28 years, 3 months

2
1
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Wtd: ESDI 3.5" hd + hd ?'s

by scott＠isd.canberra.edu.au

At 17:15 6/01/98 -0500, PG Manney wrote: >> > MFM (early 80's?) >> >> Very early 80's, I think, for the ST-506. >> >> > RLL (late 80's?) >> >> I tend to think of this as a minor variation of MFM, myself :-) > >Not quite. The interface is the same (ST-506/412), but the encoding is >different. > >RLL-encoded ST-506/412 drives were finicky, especially as regards >temperature -- you shouldn't LLF them cold, for example. The problem, however, as I understand it, wasn't the ST-506/412 interface itself, it was the fact that most of the drives that used this interface used stepper motors to move the R/W heads. The high-end voice-coil drives that used the ST-506/412 interface were *far* more reliable, and usually didn't have any problems using RLL encoding. Regards, | Scott McLauchlan |"Sometimes the need to mess with their heads| |Information Services Division| outweighs the millstone of humiliation." | | University of Canberra |__________Fox_Mulder_"The_X-Files:_Squeeze"_| | scott(a)isd.canberra.edu.au |http://www.canberra.edu.au/~scott/home.html |

28 years, 3 months

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I don't believe this ****

by KFergason＠aol.com

In a message dated 98-01-07 17:05:26 EST, you write: << I once had a PC/XT overclocked to 25 or so MHz. It caught fire... Basically, I just pulled the chip marked 25 MHz from a dead 386 and put it where the XT's ship was. It took about 10 minutes to start emitting black smoke. This was before I knew they were useful... >> A friend of mine once told me that they used to replace the 1mhz? crystal on Kim-1 boards with an 8mhz crystal. Man, that 6502 was real fast for a while. :-)

28 years, 3 months

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Mac IIci, was [Re: The IBM PS/2 model 70 again! -E61]

by Zeus334＠aol.com

Well, we have 10 IIcis, 10 Powermac 5400/180s (slow as molasses) 1 clone, 2 quadras. They are all used, the IIcis are limited in usefullness, because of the lack of FDD functionality In a message dated 98-01-07 20:18:49 EST, you write: << This will help lot. Otherwise, replace them with newer Mac clones. Cheaper in long run and less headache especially if they're at school lab still used? Also these clones uses regular 15pin monitors that was used for PC's. >>

28 years, 3 months

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Could someone please help this guy out?

by dastar＠wco.com

Can someone please help this man? Please send your replies to: COCarlson(a)aol.com ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 17:13:00 EST From: COCarlson <COCarlson(a)aol.com> To: vcf(a)siconic.com Subject: help I need a command interpreter (command.com?) for a Kaypro XT. I had backed up the files and was then removing files in preparation for giving this computer to a grandchild. I accidentally deleted the system files. I have them backed up, but I can't get to the "restore" option until I can boot the computer. Actually, a Low density "system" diskette would be great. COCarlson(a)aol.com

28 years, 3 months

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The IBM PS/2 model 70 again! -E61

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 98-01-07 15:26:19 EST, you write: << One Mac IIcx - what good about this one? I used to work on similar configuration of that model when I was at college doing homework. Comments please. >> I have this model in my collection. i managed to get it for $25 but have not been able to test it since mine came with a radius two page display card which is useless without the monitor. i finally did get a 1bit video card for it, but now need to find a mono display for it which i still havent found! the cx is a 68030 running at 16mhz. a better deal would be the IIci model which is 25mhz and built in video which can be used with a vga monitor if you use a special dongle. RE: ps2 models; I have 3 of them: two 8530 and a 9577. the model 77 i bought >from work when they upgraded to pc300 desktops. two scsi adaptors, 16 meg, 200 400meg scsi drives running hpfs and os2 3.0. its an industrial strength machine, and will probably outlive any other computer i own. david.

28 years, 3 months

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Mac IIci, was [Re: The IBM PS/2 model 70 again! -E61]

by Zeus334＠aol.com

I like the IIcis. They're cute little things. Pretty fast, too. The only problem, and I'm wondering if anyone could help me, is this. My experience with them was in a Macintosh Lab at a school. They have been used there for ~7 years. They have two problems. One is that the monitors power up intermittently, probably due to the transformer. Ideas? The other is the disk drives. They were all blown out with compressed air, but still didn't start working correctly. Ideas? > a better deal would be the IIci model which is > 25mhz and built in video which can be used with a vga monitor if you use a > special dongle.

28 years, 3 months

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Tektronix 6132 workstations

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<I've got a line on a Tektronix 6132 workstations, and I'm wondering what <exactly it is. According to the current owner it runs Berkeley UNIX ver <4.2 with some 4.3 extensions. Apparently it's been sitting in a closet <unused for the last 8 years, so who knows if it's working. He also <referred to it as a UTek workstation. < <I didn't even know Tek made any computers, and web searches bring up zilc Look inside it may be a DEC PDP-11 series machine in differnt garb. Allison

28 years, 3 months

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Visicalc -- NOT -- I beg your pardon

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 08:39 PM 1/6/98 -0800, you wrote: >The absolute >standout First Prize response was from Uncle Roger, with such >a bizzare comment that I am left speechless -- thanx Unc -- I Woohoo! I won! Yippee! What do I get? --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 3 months

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Big "B", update

by yakowenk＠cs.unc.edu

There is an awesome B205 page at the University of Virginia, plus a pretty cool B5000 page nearby. Here's the URL: http://www.cs.virginia.edu/brochure/images/manuals It looks like they scanned in the original manuals for these beasties, instead of just retyping them. Seeing the originals really adds to the presentation, IMHO. And the B205 was _so_ cool - magnetic drum as main memory! Those were the days. Cheers, Bill.

28 years, 3 months

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A Couple Acquisitions: Paper Tape & Bernoulli Drive

by KFergason＠aol.com

In a message dated 98-01-07 02:11:50 EST, you write: << I also picked up a Bernoulli box (that takes the 8" cartridges) and some cartridges and can't recall who had the cartridges they were offering to a good home. If whoever you are reads this, please send me an email. That was $10 as well. >> Ah, that was me. I have 45 of the little beggers. Willing to let them go for cost of shipping + soda money. Let me know how many you want. Kelly KFergason(a)aol.com

28 years, 3 months

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I don't believe this **** CD-Decomposition

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<The shiny layer is aluminum. I heard of someone who threw a <favorite cd into lake in frustration, but few years later, found it <again, it's ruined. What people fail to realize is that plastics for the most part are not hermetic! Over time most plastics absorb water and water will react with aluminum to ozidize it. Same for plastic encapsulated chips!!! It's that permeability of plastics that cause anything encapsulated in them to degrade ofver time unless the material is passivated or chemically stable (gold, platinum...). Heat accelerates the reactions. Allison

28 years, 3 months

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I don't believe this ****

by Philip.Belben＠powertech.co.uk

> What happened? Water get through a scratch and the aluminum started > corroding? Never dropped one in a lake, but my Warcraft II cd took a dip > in the toilet one day. I'm still wondering how it got on top of the toilet > in the first place... I think there are plenty of mechanisms, not all well understood. Example: Thermal cycling (repeated warming and cooling) causes mechanical stresses. These grow microscopic cracks at imperfections / scratches / impurities in the plastic until there is a path for corroding chemicals (like water) to get in at the aluminium. Some CDs now use a gold layer instead of an aluminium one. I don't know how much longer these last. The above mechanism can be combated by keeping the discs in a temperature-controlled environment (a lake I would have thought would not be too bad for that but obviously it was...) - but mechanical stresses still occur when spinning up and down. Just my 2d worth. Philip.

28 years, 3 months

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I don't believe this **** CD-Decomposition

by higginbo＠netpath.net

At 07:14 AM 1/7/98 +0300, you wrote: >ROM (not EEPROM!) with the data on it. It would be cool to see a drive that >read ROMS, or, if you put a "blank" one in would burn it for you. Of course >that's only good for a few K, but for text, that should be sufficent. How about something in a cartridge format? Alot of Video game carts these days are topping 8mb. -John Higginbotham- -limbo.netpath.net-

28 years, 3 months

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TERMINAL ALTOS IV Arco Electronica S.A. es una empresa espa=F1ola dedicada a la

by arco＠sta.es

automatizaci=F3n de procesos industriales. Desde hace varios a=F1os estamos instalando terminales de ALTOS IV. = =20 Actualmente tenemos una delegaci=F3n en BRASIL, pero no tenemos informaci=F3n si ustedes disponen de servicio t=E9cnico en Brasil. Rogamos nos indiquen si lo tienen, as=ED como los servicios t=E9cnic= os de Iberoam=E9rica. =20 Agradeciendo la atenci=F3n prestada: Jose Manuel Soria V=E1zquez ---------------------------------------------- Finds: Just before Christmas I found the following cassette software in ziplock bags with the manual: Extended Basic by Processor Technologies for the SOL-20 Resident Assembler by Processor Technologies for the SOL-20 Text Editor by Processor Technologies for the SOL-20 a terminal program (I forget the name) by Dynasty Computer for the= SMART-Alec. --------------------------------------------- I want to approach a company about getting permission to copy their manuals and system software to distribute to other collectors. I think that it would go smoother if I already had a contract drawn up before hand. A generic agreement. Does anyone have experience with this? Or are there any Lawyer/Collectors out there? I'm looking for real experience. If a document like this doesn't exist, it should. We need to do all can towards tracking down who owns the rights to the software that keeps our machines running and getting their permission to copy it for others. --------------------------------------------- Fun Fact: The PMC101 "MicroMate" CP/M 3.0 System disk comes with a utility called CONVERT which allows the user to configure any of the floppy drives attached to the system (up to 4) to read and write disks of a number of different CP/M formats. The disks must already be formated. This utility makes it easy to transfer files between these formats: COMPUTER SIDES DENSITY =20 PMC-101 2 Double =20 PMC-101 1 Double =20 Omikron 1 Single =20 Kaypro II 1 Double =20 Osborne 1 Single =20 Osborne 1 Double =20 HP-125 2 Double =20 Xerox 820 II 1 Single =20 Xerox 820 II 1 Double =20 Dec 1 Double =20 IBM PC (CP/M) 1 Double =20 Zenith Z-37 1 Double =20 MicroDecision 1 Double MicroDecision 2 Double InterSystems 2 Double InterSystems 1 Double Televideo 802 2 Double Cromemco 1 Single =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Doug Coward dcoward(a)pressstart.com =20 Senior Software Engineer Press Start Inc. =20 Sunnyvale,CA=20 Curator Museum of Personal Computing Machinery =20 http://www.best.com/~dcoward/museum =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

28 years, 3 months

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PCjr Lotus carts A and B

by thedm＠sunflower.com

Hey guess what, very odd. If you have the cart's in and you boot to a normal plain old DOS disk, just type 123 and it Loads!! YES! Don't know how the heck it does it, but it does work. -----Original Message----- From: Roger Merchberger <zmerch(a)northernway.net> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Thursday, January 01, 1998 5:59 PM Subject: Re: PCjr Lotus carts A and B >;-) Bill Girnius head-scratched, yawned, then typed: >>I have a set of these, they wont load, all my other carts work. Is there a >>stupid command or disk I need, or are they busted? > >I'm quite sure that there is a boot disk that's needed as well, but I could >never get my Jr's to spew out video very well... :-( > >HTH, >Roger "Merch" Merchberger >-- >Roger Merchberger | If at first you don't succeed, >Programmer, NorthernWay | nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* >zmerch(a)northernway.net | be your first career choice. >

28 years, 3 months

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I don't believe this ****

by fmc＠reanimators.org

allisonp(a)world.std.com (Allison J Parent) writes: > Actually there are people that have looked into landfills that are in the > 100-200 years old range and they have found things in an amazing state of > preservation. It occurs to me that 100-200 years ago we did not have certain modern conveniences, like the heavy tractors with big metal spiky rollers and/or wheels that I've seen in use at landfills. I'd guess the object is to flatten the refuse layer out by crushing it. -Frank McConnell

28 years, 3 months

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Visicalc -- NOT -- I beg your pardon

by weese＠mind.net

Apologies to all. On 1/3/98 at 12:05pm I attempted to send a private note to Ward Donald Griffiths III, concerning his signature...... but it was posted publicly instead. It was an accident. I believe that any group needs to limit the discussion pretty strictly to the stated topic only, as I've seen how it can get too far afield on other groups. For the record, I hit the "reply to author" button, & it replied to everybody. I'll try my best to be more careful in the future. Most of the people in the group simply ignored it, possibly the most appropriate thing to do. About six (not many out of 200 total) reminded me that the subject was classic computers, with varying degrees of civility -- nuff sed. The absolute standout First Prize response was from Uncle Roger, with such a bizzare comment that I am left speechless -- thanx Unc -- I will be driving down to SF when you least expect it, & deliver your new big heavy bible up side yo head. Just kidding. ---mikey

28 years, 3 months

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Update: I don't believe this ****

by higginbo＠netpath.net

Where is she located exactly? At 09:41 PM 1/6/98 -0800, you wrote: >Needless to say I sent her a message tonite letting her know that I'm >interested, and if it's something I don't want (probably due to where it >is) that I'd pass the information onto people that will be interested. > >Who knows what started out as an insult, might turn out to be an >interesting source. -John Higginbotham- -limbo.netpath.net-

28 years, 3 months

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Tektronix 6132 workstations

by healyzh＠ix.netcom.com

I've got a line on a Tektronix 6132 workstations, and I'm wondering what exactly it is. According to the current owner it runs Berkeley UNIX ver 4.2 with some 4.3 extensions. Apparently it's been sitting in a closet unused for the last 8 years, so who knows if it's working. He also referred to it as a UTek workstation. I didn't even know Tek made any computers, and web searches bring up zilch. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | | For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html |

28 years, 3 months

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Looking for info

by fmc＠reanimators.org

"David Williams" <dlw(a)neosoft.com> wrote: > Also, anything on a DS200MC terminal server? Assuming you mean a DECserver 200/MC, I was using these in 1988, so I'd guess that they're acceptable for discussion on this list, or will be soon enough. As you wrote, it's a terminal server. Eight RS-232 ports with enough modem control to support most asynchronous communications needs, and an Ethernet port for connection to your LAN. As I recall there is enough firmware in the thing to request an executable image via DEC's MOP protocol, pick one responding host to download it from, and once that image is downloaded (via MOP) and running, to do terminal and printer service via DEC's LAT protocol. They do not do TCP/IP-suite protocols, though later models of DECserver may. Hence you can plug terminals, modems, printers, or computers into the RS-232 ports, and set them up so that either they connect to other computers via LAT, or so that other computers (or other terminal server ports) can connect via LAT to "services" associated with the ports. Generally speaking, they're not real useful outside DEC environments, but are very useful there. -Frank McConnell

28 years, 3 months

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Wtd: ESDI 3.5" hd + hd ?'s

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

First off, though not quite 10 years, I'd love to find an affordable 3.5" ESDI hard drive in the 100-500mb range for my PS/2 model 70 lunchbox. Second, Does anyone know when the various hard drive interfaces were developed? The ones I can think of include: MFM (early 80's?) RLL (late 80's?) SCSI (late 70's?) ESDI (?) IDE any others? Thanks... --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 3 months

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C-64c, How common?

by adam＠merlin.net.au

>I'm starting to wonder about how common the C-64c is. I have yet to see >one, I picked up the manuals when a favorite bookstore had a set a few >months back. Then last weekend I was at the bookstore and they had like 3 >or 4 sets of manual. But like I said I've never seen an actual computer! I'm assuming you mean the different case design - over here (South Australia) they seem to be as common as the old breadbox sort, but I suspect that in numbers they are slightly less than the older designs. I have three of them, and I only wanted the one. As far as I know there are no functional changes, although Commodore had a history of working out ways to make systems cheaper, so there may be a difference internally. I did find one old C64 in a third-party case which looked very much like the C64c, though. Interestingly enough it was made here - I would have picked it up, but I shy away from collecting computers based on the different cases, as there are too many to collect just based on the different systems themselves, and space is limited. Adam.

28 years, 3 months

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I don't believe this **** CD-Decomposition

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

What did you expect? I mean, it was in the lake, with moving water all around it, fish, plants, and lord knows what else brushing aginst it, and so forht. The perfect form of data preservation is probably punched tape, or, ROM (not EEPROM!) with the data on it. It would be cool to see a drive that read ROMS, or, if you put a "blank" one in would burn it for you. Of course that's only good for a few K, but for text, that should be sufficent. -----Original Message----- From: jpero(a)cgo.wave.ca <jpero(a)cgo.wave.ca> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Tuesday, January 06, 1998 8:15 PM Subject: Re: I don't believe this **** > At 11:49 AM 1/6/98 +0000, you wrote: > > >discolored. There should be a better way to compost them... > >Allow enough O2 there, it will decompose and oxidize better. > > What do you think about CD-ROMS? I hear they have have a much longer > capacity to hold data, as opposed to 15 years for VHS tapes in average > conditions. Would UV be the major factor in CD-ROM deterioration? Actually, the sealer on that side of any cdrom label side is pretty easy to scratch, once that happens, the life is really shortened! The shiny layer is aluminum. I heard of someone who threw a favorite cd into lake in frustration, but few years later, found it again, it's ruined. Jason D. > > - John Higginbotham > - limbo.netpath.net > > >

28 years, 3 months

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I don't believe this ****

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

Yes, actually, there are a couple of companies that do that. (Only recycle computers) They take PC's or Macs. They're currently mostly only used by corporate managers trying to find a green way to get rid of their Windows 3.1 machines, but they get paid a little in return. They're trying to become more home-orginized, but the word needs to get out. They report that 2% of the weight of a 3 year old computer is dust!!! As for what happens with landfills, I've heard that studies show that it's the plastic. (I'd guess that it like forms a bubble covering the newspapers, etc. blocking out all air, etc.) That would make it near-perfect preservation, even into tripple or, even quad digit numbers. Near the bottom, there's more air. Tim D. Hotze -----Original Message----- From: William Donzelli <william(a)ans.net> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Tuesday, January 06, 1998 7:16 PM Subject: Re: I don't believe this **** >> > > >>computers been contacted by someone that wants to dispose of your >> > > >>collection as scrap? Talk about insulting! > >Yes, that was completely tactless on their part. Maybe if they collect >something like Hummels, perhaps you should have offered to grind them up >to make spackle. > >> > You guys know that I agree with your sentiment 100%. That said, I'd >> > rather see the systems melted down for scrap (assuming it's a reasonably >> > efficient and environmentally safe process) than to see them go into a >> > landfill. I can't imagine how many beautiful systems are rusting away >> > under 3 million tons of garbage someplace. I don't want to see them >> > scrapped either, mind you, but given the choice.... > >I agree here, and for the most part, the majority of computers end up >being recycled, either in the U.S. or abroad. > >I have nothing against the scrappers, other than those that flat out >refuse to deal with the collectors. It is VERY efficient (something like >98% by mass get recycled now - CRTs and some photocopier parts are the >only stumbling blocks), and frankly, one can make a good living at it. >What one can not make a good living at is refurbishing them - they just >get devalued too fast. > >Lets face it, we can not save it all. True, we should try to get the >goodies into the collector's hands so they survive. Often in makes more >sense to try to resell a system than to scrap it (like the TT030). For the >most part, however, computers (and other electronics) probably should be >scrapped. For example, one place I deal with in Kansas City (and now >Chicago) has a roomful of IBM Series/1 minicomputers all humming away. >Eventually, they will get decommissioned. If I were a scrapper and won the >bid for them (sometimes the bid just means picking them up!), I would keep >one for myself, one sripped down for spares, and offer any others to >members on the list (or the collecting community in general). If those >latter ones do not move, they would get scrapped. This applies to just >about anything, PeeCees, VT100s, ES/9000s, C64s, etc. - with the exception >of the special machines (_old_ machines, prototypes, high demand >collectables, etc.). Obviously, the day I scrap a S/360 will never come. > >William Donzelli >william(a)ans.net > >

28 years, 3 months

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DECWriter II

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Never moved a LA-120 so fast in my life... Oh, my boss heard what happene <When asked "when they fix th' 100, you want me to swap it back?", the ans <was a brief "Nope!". I actually have one of those "evil" LA-100's.. Glad <my dislike for th' thing.. Little history since I was in that group. The LA120 was the longest running hardcopy printer dec ever made. It's hallmarks were rugged as hell, ugly print quality even through 8 copies of NCR paper! I used to call it the paper punch as to do 8 copies you had to really punch it. Inside DEC it was the preferred hardcopy console. I also happen to have a LA100RO and as a wide platten printer of later design it was pretty good. It also was spec'd to 6 copies thick. Allison

28 years, 3 months

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colorizing is evil

by higginbo＠netpath.net

For the longest time, when I was very young, I thought those movies were made in black and white because everything WAS black and white. Crazy, huh? At 01:38 AM 1/6/98 +0000, you wrote: >I know, I like to have both choices anyway because I'm curious what >colors looked like at that time also enjoy the b/w for it's quality. -John Higginbotham- -limbo.netpath.net-

28 years, 3 months

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DECWriter II

by Zeus334＠aol.com

I saw a DECWriter II today near the trash. It was a typewriter-style thing bolted to a table. I didn't stay around long, because there was a security camera watching (what are they for above the trash anyway, for god's sake?). I couldn't have dragged it away, or put it anywhere, anyway. So, what did I miss?

28 years, 3 months

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Wtd: ESDI 3.5" hd + hd ?'s

by pvhp＠forte.com

classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu Subj: Re: Wtd: ESDI 3.5" hd + hd ?'s Tony Duell wrote: !> MFM (early 80's?) !> RLL (late 80's?) !> SCSI (late 70's?) !> ESDI (?) !> IDE !> !> any others? Thanks... ! !I can't help with dates, but there are a lot of others : ! !SASI (forerunner of SCSI) !SMD !HPIB :-) (Seriously, HP did make large-ish hard disks with an HPIB interface) !Massbus (?) ! !And the custom ones : !Shugart SA4000 (one 50 wire cable) !Shugart SA1000 (50 wire control cable, that could be shared with 8" floppy !drives, and a 20/26 wire data cable) !DEC : R80 (almost SMD, but different enough to give you headaches!), !RK05, RL01, RK06, etc... Doubtless other manufactures had similar custom !interfaves !Diablo 30 (almost the same as RK05, but not quite) !Micropolis 1200 (either the raw 50 wire interface, or the formatted one. !There was a standard Micropolis controller for the latter) Well - now that the discussion has turned to disk drives and such I would like to ask in general (not necessarily to Tony in particular): where might I be able to find either an ESDI or a SCSI controller for the Q22 bus in a MicroVAX II? Shop names and addresses in the Bay area would be especially helpful but I am perfectly happy to look elsewhere (even DEC). Alas, the recently mentioned organization with a web page at http://www.dda.org/dda.html apparently does not list any hardware (not even if you "subscribe"(?)). Thanks to the efforts of a member of this list I am now the extremely happy owner of a uVAX II with three RD53 bootable drives (Ultrix 1.2, 2.1, && VMS 5.4 - the latter (c) 1990 and not strictly classic software :=}). At any rate, I would like to up the disk capacity of the machine by a fair amount and install a decent C compiler (Under VMS I am currently limited to DCL and MACRO as the only programming languages - oddly I have both FORTRAN and PASCAL verbs in my DCLTABLES but no such images under SYS$SYSROOT.) A big thanks to this list for information already provided as well as that anticipated. Peter Prymmer

28 years, 3 months

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H-8 Computer needs loving home

by billhall＠mlmassoc.com

I have a Heathkit H-8 computer in working order with documentation, software, terminal (H-19), disk drives that I no longer use. I'd like to find someone who can make good use of this equipment. It would be helpful if you can handle shipping costs but everything is negotiable. If you are interested, please send email or call 408-881-3489. --Bill Hall

28 years, 3 months

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S-bug and DELABS?

by yakowenk＠cs.unc.edu

Anybody got manuals or hints for the S-BUG and DELABS monitor ROMs? I scored a SwTPC 69/A today that has both of these, but I only sorta remember S-BUG from way-back-when, and have never even heard of DELABS. To jiggle your memories, here are some of the S-BUG commands that I remember/figured-out today: ^A - set accumulator A ^B - " " B etc. for other registers G - go to address in PC R - show registers S - show stack D - boot from disk (?) E - examine memory P - punch (motorola S19 format memory dump) As for the DELABS ROM, it seems to be involved with the EPROM burner. I suspect it can read & write EPROMs, and maybe up/download binaries over one of the serial ports. But I've only figured out a few of its commands: D - memory hex dump F - fill memory I suppose I'll end up disassembling them both eventually, but hints could make the job much easier, and maybe unnecessary. Thanks! Bill.

28 years, 3 months

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I don't believe this ****

by yakowenk＠cs.unc.edu

] You guys know that I agree with your sentiment 100%. That said, I'd ] rather see the systems melted down for scrap (assuming it's a reasonably ] efficient and environmentally safe process) than to see them go into a ] landfill. I can't imagine how many beautiful systems are rusting away ] under 3 million tons of garbage someplace. I don't want to see them ] scrapped either, mind you, but given the choice.... Imagine this, fifty years from now, a web of nanotech bots climbing through and mapping a landfill, finding antique treasures, maybe getting enough chemical data to reconstruct the things before decay set in... I'd vote for the landfill over the slag heap any day. Of course, my basement, when I get one, will be the best option. ] Anthony Clifton - Wirehead Bill. Until it fills up.

28 years, 3 months

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HP Integral PC

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 10:42 AM 1/3/98 -0800, you wrote: >I have an Integral, but it's ROM just has the HP-UX kernel and PAM -- >just enough to boot and run things. So I have /usr/bin (Unix >utilities, C compiler, &c) on a 9134 for when I actually want to do >something with it. Are you saying that there is no internal hard drive int the IPC? Wierd. Okay, so since I'd love to have one, let me ask this in advance: Has anyone come up with an HP-IB (IEEE-488?) to SCSI or IDE adapter? It would be great to tack a little 3.5" (or even 2.5") hard drive on the side. Thanks! --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 3 months

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Altair

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

Hi, I just picked up an Altair 8800a. It has a North Star disk drive controller in it. I think it uses a Shugart Sa400 drive. Does anyone know if it uses a hard sectored or soft sectored disk? Where can I find a SA 400? I know they were very common in the old computers. I have access to a lot of old computers (old Tandys, Commodores and other stranger things.) Can anyone tell me which ones migh t have a SA 400 drive? Yes, Yes, I know you're all going to be PO'd that I would use one of those old machines for parts, but I've offered them to people over and over and no one is interested unless I PAY them to take them. Joe

28 years, 3 months

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Frank Knows his stuff was Re: What is this H

by manney＠nwohio.com

Qedit > is an incredible editor while MPEX extends the capabilities of the OS. Yeah, but they want something like $90 for it! I found another, that's free (even has spell check). Will send to anyone on request. manney(a)nwohio.com

28 years, 3 months

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operating systems

by jfoust＠threedee.com

John Higginbotham <higginbo(a)netpath.net> wrote: > They run blindingly fast, >making them utterly worthless unless you use one of those slowdown utils, >but most of those only run right on 486s. Again, there must be a market for better emulation / slowdown software. There should be a way to put the Pentium in an 8008 compatibility mode. :-) >>Three, that ancient games don't "hurt" today's software market. Doing what? > >Doing what? Being available for "free" (illegally) out there for people to >get to them. The fact that people are still playing them doesn't affect >today's game market at all. Yes, the sales of old software might be a very small fraction of mainstream games, so small as to have no effect - but I don't like to play fast-and-loose with self-created and self-serving notions of "it's not hurting anyone" when it comes to intellectual property issues. >But repackaging the games and shipping them would up the price to at least >$10.00 a piece, Maybe the net and micropayments will help. Or in this case, a web site with do-it-yourself downloading of $10 bundles of 20 old games might satify both the developers and the funding of the site. Shareware is a *sure* way to gather no cash, especially with a dusty product like this. Being afflicted with entrepreneur's disease, I've toyed with the idea of this as a business: collecting up the distribution rights for old software, bundling them on CD, adding emulators, and selling for reasonable prices, etc. to recreate the old computer experience. As they say, they're not making any more "retro." :-) The hard parts would be finding the rightful owners, forging acceptable contracts with each, and without giving them the impression that millions are to be made. Or in some cases, if the companies that owned the products are truly *gone*, to be willing to take the risk they wouldn't sue you if you assumed you could distribute. Apropo the other thread about today's tendency to throw out 486s... as-is, they still run yesterday's games, word processors, educational apps, etc. for schools, libraries, senior centers, day care centers, etc. It's such a shame this stuff isn't being reused. A 486/33 with 8 megs and Linux makes a perfectly acceptable firewall. - John Jefferson Computer Museum <http://www.threedee.com/jcm>

28 years, 3 months

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operating systems

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Apropo the other thread about today's tendency to throw out 486s... <as-is, they still run yesterday's games, word processors, educational <apps, etc. for schools, libraries, senior centers, day care centers, etc <It's such a shame this stuff isn't being reused. A 486/33 with <8 megs and Linux makes a perfectly acceptable firewall. Sheesh, I consider my good system with bells and whistles hot and it's a lowly 486DX2/50 with 8meg and 516mb disk! The next ones down from there is a 386dx/33(128k cache) and a 486sx/25(no cache). Scary that I consider what I have pretty adaquate (I run Gcadd, Netscape3+, and a few other heavies). Allison

28 years, 3 months

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