Yes, I'm back on JPS Internet! So far, so good. Still looking for a
replacement power supply OR maintenance print sets (read: schematics) for a
VaxSERVER 3100 (NOT A VAXSTATION -- VAXServer -- there is a difference) so
I can fix the power supply. Other than that, doing pretty good.
'The Traveling Technoid' will also be moving this month to its new home.
There may be a few days where it is inaccessible. I'll post the new
location here and on Infoseek.
Caveat emptor!
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272)
(Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin(a)jps.net)
"Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own
human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."
Can someone educate me as to how the 8800, the 8800A
and the 8800B differ?
I would really like to know about all the differences
in the three.
Thanks very much,
BOB
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Here's my contribution. I must confess to not having read all the
previous ones - traffic on the list has been somewhat high and my boss
has been making noises about my spending so much time reading it :-( I
suppose I'll have to get TCP/IP on my IBM 6150 ...
My name is Philip Belben and I'm an electrical engineer by trade. I
work for PowerGen, one of the electricity generating companies formed
when the UK split up its electricity industry in 1990. I'm 30 years old
(31 next week) and still single. I live alone in a 3-bedroom house full
of computers and other electronic junk, located at Coalville, England.
My introduction to computers was when my school got a Commodore PET in
1979. Suitable pestering of my parents meant that I received a
secondhand, 8K PET for my 13th birthday in 1980. I then caught the
computing bug - I forced the school to let me take exams in computer
science even though they had no-one to teach it.
After leaving school at 18 I did a year with IBM (Marketing - UGH!)
before going to university.
At university in 1987 I met Tony Duell, who had just founded the P850
User Group to preserve old computers. I caught the collecting bug at
about that time, and I now have around 60 of the things.
Old computers is just one hobby among many, though. I also write music;
I play the organ at my local church (yes I am a Christian), and also
sing and play Piano and Bassoon; I have recently taken up photography.
I would add that my computers aren't the only thing that's old - my
camera is a Yashicaflex 635 (late 1960s?) that I bought for 6 UK pounds
(just under $10) at a charity auction. My car is a 1971 Marcos Mantis -
a British kit car of which about 32 were made and 14 are believed to
survive - which I bought two years ago because I wanted something
sportier than my 1965 Ford Anglia (I shall always regret getting rid of
the Anglia). I also have a 1948 Fordson (= UK brand name for Ford
commercial vehicles until 1950s) truck, useful for carting computers
around. When I get the truck back on the road, I intend to join the
Classic Computer Rescue Squad.
Since this is not strictly on topic, I'd better not say any more!
Philip.
<I have a three board set of Q-bus cards plus the boot ROM for a uVAX II,
<dated from 1987, which supposedly turns a VAX server into a workstation f
<DECWindows. I think it was called the GPX II kit? Anyway, the boards wo
<and I have the keyboard, dove bar mouse and cable, but no monitor. I
<believe this board set could drive several types of workstation monitors
<and was programmed for monitor type thru some of the wires in the kbd/mou
I have no clue on the rom as the microvax-II already could run decwindows.
DECwindows is a device and services under VMS. I would not mess with that
rom unless you fully identfy it and its use.
The monitors conformed to the boards not the other way round the cable
carried keyboard data mouse and RGB video for the monitor.
monitors were vr260, 290, 320.
<too? Any specs on it? Will it work in a VAX 3600?
Yes.
<Also, what versions of VMS support the GPX board? Is it still current (V
<I have a VMS 5.5 set of tapes that came with the uVAX, from the old days
<when the VMS license stayed with the CPU and DEC didn't hit you up for
<license transfers.
Most all from v4.2 and later. V5.5 would work well. FYI there is a free
license available for hobby use to US decus members.
Allison
<Can someone educate me as to how the 8800, the 8800A
<and the 8800B differ?
<I would really like to know about all the differences
<in the three.
All three are 8080 and s100.
The 8800 and 8800a are esentially the same save for the A has most
of mods and improvements designed in. The number of mods are in the
dozens but include a powersupply large enough to be useful.
The 8800b is a radically redesigned front panel using proms and more
sequential logic rather that the flaky oneshots used in the earlier
version. There was a front pannel less version with a turnkey boot.
Track down the docs as it's far more to it than this outline.
Allison
On Mon, 2 Mar 1998, Russ Blakeman wrote:
> as the newest addition - a Vector 3 made by Vector Graphics Inc of California
> (I'm guessing by the 213 area code on the label). I also have older Tektronix
Russ, the Vector 3 was manufactured in Santa Barbara, California. Vector
Graphics is an interesting company, in that it was started by two
housewives in the late 70s. One of the ladies was Lore Harp. I forget
the name of the other.
I have two Vector 1's. There was also, of course, a Vector 2.
Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass
Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
FYI
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 04 Mar 1998 05:26:24 -0500
From: shewless(a)bestweb.net
To: danjo(a)xnet.com
Subject: Wanting to sell...
I am wanting to sell a Color Computer 2. I have the basic unit, books to
it, the cassette player, the 5 1/4 floppy drive, the dot matrix printer and
all cables in great conditon. Please email me if you or anyone you know
would like to purchase it. Thanks, Ron Roberts
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
BC
<IIRC the Z-80 stacks the PC after the it's been incremented. So it fills
Correct, been looking at to much C code lately.
<were only 7 bits of video RAM on that machine, so 00 displayed as 40 =
<'@'). That was a standard diagnostic test I think.
Yes!
Allison
I just acquired (5 minutes ago) a DEC TU80 open reel tape drive, but no
docs. There is a 3rd party Q-bus card (Distributed Logic Corp) that came
with it, cables seem to line up. Does anyone know anything about this tape
drive, is it a 6250 bpi drive, can it work in a MicroVAX II or VAX 3600
Q-Bus, and is it supported under VMS 5,6, or 7? Is there some kind of SCSI
adapter so I could connect it to an NT machine or an Alpha?
A longtime customer just showed up at my door with it in his pickup, asked
if I wanted it. It's clean and he says it was pulled from a running system,
but no details. It's in a nice DEC rack, like the kind VAX 3600s came in.
Is it treasure or trash?
Jack Peacock
There's a chart at the bottom of the page at:
http://www.geocities.com/~compcloset/MITSAltair8800.htm
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bob Wood [SMTP:altair8800@hotmail.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 1998 6:13 PM
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
> Subject: Altair 8800, 8800A, 8800B??
>
> Can someone educate me as to how the 8800, the 8800A
> and the 8800B differ?
> I would really like to know about all the differences
> in the three.
>
> Thanks very much,
>
> BOB
>
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
I have a three board set of Q-bus cards plus the boot ROM for a uVAX II, all
dated from 1987, which supposedly turns a VAX server into a workstation for
DECWindows. I think it was called the GPX II kit? Anyway, the boards work,
and I have the keyboard, dove bar mouse and cable, but no monitor. I
believe this board set could drive several types of workstation monitors,
and was programmed for monitor type thru some of the wires in the kbd/mouse
cable. Does anyone know if it can run some PC type monitor? VGA, MDA, CGA,
multisynch VGA? I don't have any info on the connector pinouts, or the
types of monitors it supports. Is it mono only or does it support color
too? Any specs on it? Will it work in a VAX 3600?
Also, what versions of VMS support the GPX board? Is it still current (V7)?
I have a VMS 5.5 set of tapes that came with the uVAX, from the old days
when the VMS license stayed with the CPU and DEC didn't hit you up for
license transfers.
Thanx for any info you might have, Jack Peacock
Hi Sam,
Is this the circa 1980 Dos-ish machine from Canada? I'd be interested....is
it yours? I live just north of Orange County (Glendora) and I could go pick
it up.
Thanks,
Aaron
BTW, no pressure on that ATR8000, but did you trade it away? I'm only
asking again because there was a rumour of one on ebay that I'll bid on if
so....
At 09:34 AM 3/4/98 -0800, you wrote:
>
>Does anyone in Orange County, California want a Victor 9000?
>
>
>Sam Alternate e-mail:
dastar(a)siconic.com
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
>Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer,
Jackass
>
> Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
> See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
>
>
<> That's a very good point. A TI-85 is a 6 MHz Z80,
I wonder what the odds of finding a ti-85 are and cost? They are hackable
>from what I gather.
Allison
From: Tim Shoppa <shoppa(a)alph02.triumf.ca>
>> I just acquired (5 minutes ago) a DEC TU80 open reel tape drive, but no
>> docs. There is a 3rd party Q-bus card (Distributed Logic Corp) that came
>> with it, cables seem to line up. Does anyone know anything about this
tape
>> drive
>
>Sure - it's a rebadged CDC Keystone, Pertec formatted interface.
Is that the same interface as a TS05? I have a TSV05 Q-bus controller, same
dual 50 pin cables.
>>, can it work in a MicroVAX II or VAX 3600
>> Q-Bus
>
>Sure. Is the card a DQ132?
It's a DQ152, rev A, dual wide Q-bus card, with 2 50 pin ribbon connectors.
It uses an 8097 controller CPU (part of the MCS-96 family if I recall
correctly), 14.745Mhz xtal (an odd speed, something Pertec related?), a
couple gate arrays (Q-Bus and Pertec interfaces?), an EPROM, and a 2063 type
static RAM. Circuit board has a 1986 copyright date
>*Do not* plug the Dilog card into a Q-bus if the board number begins with
>DU. That would be a Bad Thing.
Customer doesn't have any Unibus machines, I thought of that
The board has one jumper block, I assume for the CSR address. It's a single
in-line 10 pin header, with pins 2 and 3 jumpered together. Might someone
have the settings for this? If not I'll try the VMS newsgroup.
Does anyone have an extra ISA or MCA SCSI card? I have a pair of
80MB macintosh hard drives that I want to use...
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
They are marked 2102A
Indeed... 8212
Eproms or PROMS? They're marked C1702A
Now is a good time to ask the list for advice on what to do BEFORE applying
any power to this machine. I consider this one quite historical, and don't
want to any damage. What are the things I should check?
Cheers
A
-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Shoppa <shoppa(a)alph02.triumf.ca>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Thursday, March 05, 1998 4:08 AM
Subject: Re: Datanumerics DL8A is here! Have a peek @ ...
>> Datanumerics DL8A web page...
>> http://www.comcen.com.au/~adavie/weird/datanumerics.html
>
>Nice pictures. Are those white ceramic 2101's or 2102's in the back of
>the board? Are the 24-pin chips by the ribbon cable connectors Intel
>8212's, by any chance? And it's hard to tell from the pictures, but
>are the big chips near the RAM banks EPROM's or PROM's?
>
>A few people have remarked at the similarity of the front panel to the
>Altair, but that's hardly surprising: they're both just straightforward
>displays of the status signals available on the 8080A...
>
>Tim.
>
<garbage confined to the last two lines of the screen? (I'll have to go
<dig up my close-up screen shots photos). If so, this could mean a dead
<video ROM.
That would also be least likely as the device used is a mask programmed
component.
Sounds more like the cpu is starting up and then crashing either due to
soft bits in rom or more likely some dead ram(or the bus logic that)
connects the cpu to the ram and rom.
FYI: if the VDM1 (display board) is not accessed by the cpu or the cpu
runs amuck it's contents will be trash. If the cpu is getting nothing
or starts executing from a location where there is no memory the cpu
stacks itself to death and fills the screen (VDM1 is memory mapped).
The reason is an open bus (no memory addressed at all) = RST7 instruction
0ffh and it does a jump to 38h and starts executing from there and if
nothing answeres at that address the same thing repeats itself, each cycle
the return address is put on the stack and it fills memory with 00h, 38h.
Allison
On 1998-03-03 classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu said to lisard(a)zetnet.co.uk
:The PMOS one needs somewhat strange supplies (+5V and -7V from
:memory). I can probably find more data if you need it. I certainly
:have the SC/MP instruction set, etc.
we'd like that, please...
--
Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling
you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her...
From: Andrew Davie <adavie(a)mad.scientist.com>
>They are marked 2102A
>Indeed... 8212
>Eproms or PROMS? They're marked C1702A
>
>Now is a good time to ask the list for advice on what to do BEFORE applying
>any power to this machine. I consider this one quite historical, and don't
>want to any damage. What are the things I should check?
>
>Cheers
>A
>
2102s are 1Kbit x 1 static RAMS, the memory of choice in the 70's, power
hungry but easy to design with. An Intel 8212 is an 8 bit latch (should be
a 24 pin DIP), commonly used on 8080 boards to latch some control signals.
1702s are 256 x 8 (2Kbit) EPROMs, a real pain to program, that's probably
where your boot code is.
Jack Peacock
Thanks for the the glimmer of hope. Count me in for an order. Any
assistance Lee can offer would be greatly appreciated. I'd like to get
this Sol up and running in as original condition as possible.
Marty Mintzell
email: marty(a)itgonline.com
______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Helios II disk drive - Sol-20
Author: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu at internet
Date: 3/4/98 4:40 PM
At 13:14 3/4/98 -0500, Marty wrote:
> Thanks Sam. The video garbage is all over the screen, even overlaying
> the > prompt....Anyway, if roms go wrong
> is there a source for replacements (wishfull thinking)?
Not at present, but Lee Felsenstein and I keep talking about burning some
new ones if we find a fab that would do a short enough run. Lee says
they'd be less than $50 each.
__________________________________________
Kip Crosby engine(a)chac.org
http://www.chac.org/index.html
Computer History Association of California
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From: Kip Crosby <engine(a)chac.org>
To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers"
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Helios II disk drive - Sol-20
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Thanks for the response Jim. I'll check this out tonight and email
results tomorrow morning. I don't recall a pattern but will look for
that tonight.
Marty
______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Helios II disk drive - Sol-20
Author: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu at internet
Date: 3/4/98 2:56 PM
On Wed, 4 Mar 1998, Marty wrote:
> Thanks Sam. The video garbage is all over the screen, even overlaying
> the > prompt (I'll have to fire this up tonight to double-check as I
> haven't had at this machine for a few days). Anyway, if roms go wrong
> is there a source for replacements (wishfull thinking)?
Hmmm... gets me to thinking. Is there any pattern to this "garbage"?
(same characters repeated, etc.) The character display is read directly
out of the 1k of video ram (term used VERY loosely) in the system (static
ram, no refresh issues), and a bad RAM chip or dirty socket can often show
up like this.
This does assume that you are actually getting the SOLOS prompt (">"). If
what you are seeing on the display is a repeating pattern of a graphic and
a 9 (think that is close) which seems to flicker a bit, this would
indicate a problem with the 'Personality Module' or surrounding circuitry.
(ROM bad/missing, module bad/missing, etc...)
Also, is the image otherwise stable? (not rolling and such) If so, then
the bulk of the video sub-system is more or less ok.
-jim
---
jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com
The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw
Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174
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From: James Willing <jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com>
To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers"
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Helios II disk drive - Sol-20
In-Reply-To: <1998Mar04.131410.1767.85773(a)smtp.itgonline.com>
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While my Telebit modem issue was resolved by several nice
classiccomp mail list subscribers, here is the responce I recieved
>from the original manufacturers (actually, the new owners of the
original manufacturers). I have to say, here's how to build brand
loyalty....
--jmg
------- Start of forwarded message -------
Date: Tue, 03 Mar 1998 18:15:23 +0100
From: Christoph Meyer <cerm(a)router.de>
To: maynard(a)jmg.com
Subject: Re: Telebit Zoom FAXModem
Sorry,
we don't support Telebit equipment any longer.
cerm
- --
TLK Kommunikationssysteme GmbH (http://www.router.de)
Christoph Meyer (mailto:cerm@router.de)
Geiststr. 68
48151 Muenster
Germany
Tel: +251/97 256 70
Fax: +251/97 256 79
------- End of forwarded message -------
Damn!
Thanks Sam. The video garbage is all over the screen, even overlaying
the > prompt (I'll have to fire this up tonight to double-check as I
haven't had at this machine for a few days). Anyway, if roms go wrong
is there a source for replacements (wishfull thinking)?
Marty
______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________
Subject: Re: Helios II disk drive - Sol-20
Author: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu at internet
Date: 3/4/98 12:39 PM
On Wed, 4 Mar 1998, Marty wrote:
> I've got the Sol-20 up where I can see the monitor prompt '>' but
> there is garbage on the screen which I have yet been able to get rid
> of and attempts to load off a cpm diskette (that came with this
> package) have failed thus far.
This sounds suspiciously similar to what the screen looked like when
Felsenstein & Marsh fired up the Sol-20 prototype at VCF 1.0. Is the
garbage confined to the last two lines of the screen? (I'll have to go
dig up my close-up screen shots photos). If so, this could mean a dead
video ROM.
Sam Alternate e-mail:
dastar(a)siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer,
Jackass
Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
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From: Sam Ismail <dastar(a)wco.com>
To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers"
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Helios II disk drive - Sol-20
In-Reply-To: <1998Mar04.084954.1767.85660(a)smtp.itgonline.com>
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-----Original Message-----
From: Sam Ismail <dastar(a)wco.com>
>It seems that a lot of you blokes down under have Sorcerers. Were they
>marketed a lot more "down there" than they were in the US? They are not
>very common over here.
>
>Sam Alternate e-mail:
dastar(a)siconic.com
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
>
The Sorcerer was marketed in Australia by a nationwide group called "Dick
Smith Electronics" which was a pioneer in the home computer market here in
many ways. They also sold a TRS80 Model 1 clone called "Dick Smith System
80", the "Dick Smith VZ300" (and others in its family I think), and the
"Dick Smith Wizard". The latter is a strange machine in which the two
paddles, when placed in their slots in the console, make up the two halves
of a QWERTY membrane keyboard, with games providing slide-on overlays for
the paddles such that the game controls activate the membrane keys
underneath. I am not sure if these (other than the Sorcerer) were just
re-badged models from overseas, or commisioned by "tricky dick" (he
advertised a lot, became very rich, then became a sort of Richard Branson
adventurer and philanthropist, and he is actually now head of our civil
aviation authority, and some now want him as the first President of
Australia if we ever become a republic!)
I have here a data sheet for the Sorcerer from 1979 or 1980 in which the 8K
machine cost $A1295 and the 16K cost $1395. The only extras advertised then
were a cassette recorder for $A35 and the monitor for $A150.
>from Brisbane, Australia
Phil Guerney
Here's a stretch. If anybody has a Helios II disk drive available for
sale or trade I'd be eternally grateful. If Gary has any spare Persci
drives I would be grateful to get one of those also. I have recently
acquired a Sol-20 and have a NorthStar controller with a 5 1/4" floppy
drive (which I haven't got up and running yet).
I've got the Sol-20 up where I can see the monitor prompt '>' but
there is garbage on the screen which I have yet been able to get rid
of and attempts to load off a cpm diskette (that came with this
package) have failed thus far.
Thanks for any help or hints-
Marty Mintzell
email: marty(a)itgonline.com
<
< I've got the Sol-20 up where I can see the monitor prompt '>' but
< there is garbage on the screen which I have yet been able to get rid
< of and attempts to load off a cpm diskette (that came with this
< package) have failed thus far.
Before you mess with CPM and disks get the SOL running! The screen of
garbage is either a broken VDM-1 (video card) or the CPU is out to lunch
do to a memory problem or other system fault.
Pull the disk controller out and get to the minimum system and trouble
shoot from there.
Also the Native os for the northstar controller is NS*dos not cp/m it
is possible that the version of cpm can be configured for the NS*
controller but not the terminal IO used in the SOL so it would boot
and do nothing.
FYI: the most commonly replaced part is the CPU as it's is always
socketed. The least often failed part is the CPU!
If I were nearby I'd offer to help.
Allison
Joe <rigdonj(a)intellistar.net> wrote:
> However they are compatable at the DOS level.
Be careful how you use those words. I'd say that about the HP 110 and
150. A program written using MS-DOS services only (vs. direct
hardware access or BIOS services) stands a good chance of running
across both, as well as the IBM PC.
-Frank McConnell
>80", the "Dick Smith VZ300" (and others in its family I think), and the
>"Dick Smith Wizard". The latter is a strange machine in which the two
>paddles, when placed in their slots in the console, make up the two halves
>of a QWERTY membrane keyboard, with games providing slide-on overlays for
>the paddles such that the game controls activate the membrane keys
>underneath
I have a page up for the Dick Smith Wizzard. It is, in fact, a
Creativision - and can be seen at the following URL...
http://www.comcen.com.au/~adavie/weird/creativision.html
My machine has the optional keyboard (improves the feel from dreadful to
absolutely dreadful but in 3d instead of 2d), and the docked casette module.
Cheers
A
PS: Is it just me, or are others getting mail failure notifications when
sending to the list?
Great information, thanks Scott, and thanks as well to Allison. I'll
check the archives for the keyboard mail.
Marty Mintzell
______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________
Subject: Re: Helios II disk drive - Sol-20
Author: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu at internet
Date: 3/4/98 11:19 AM
On Wed, 4 Mar 1998, Marty wrote:
> I've got the Sol-20 up where I can see the monitor prompt '>' but
> there is garbage on the screen which I have yet been able to get rid
> of and attempts to load off a cpm diskette (that came with this
> package) have failed thus far.
Is the keyboard working properly? The Sol-20 keyboard is a capacitive
unit in which pressing a key pushes the insulated side of a piece of
one-size metallized Mylar film against plates on the printed circuit
board, changing the capacitance. These pieces of film are attached to the
key mechanism with foam. Over the course of time, this foam
disintegrates, the metal backing mysteriously disappears from the film,
and pieces become detached from the keys and rattle around inside the
keyboard wreaking havoc.
If you are having problems with the keyboard (or the garbage on your
screen looks like it could be the result of stuck keys), you may want to
check for this problem. The PC board is held to the keyboard assembly
with screws and is easily removed. After removing the keyboard assembly,
you can test the machine by using parts salvaged from another capacitive
keyboard (or even a piece of foil held behind thin plastic) to complete
the "key capacitors". There are instructions somewhere on the classiccmp
archive for rebuilding a Sol-20 keyboard using a PC-clone (Keytronics?)
capacitive keyboard as a donor. It's on my relatively long list of things
to do.
--
Scott Ware ware(a)xtal.pharm.nwu.edu
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From: Scott Ware <ware(a)xtal.pharm.nwu.edu>
To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers"
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Helios II disk drive - Sol-20
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Thanks Allison. As the VDM-1 is built-in I obviously can't pull it but
will check for a bad trace etc.
Marty
______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________
Subject: Re: Helios II disk drive - Sol-20
Author: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu at internet
Date: 3/4/98 9:53 AM
<
< I've got the Sol-20 up where I can see the monitor prompt '>' but
< there is garbage on the screen which I have yet been able to get rid
< of and attempts to load off a cpm diskette (that came with this
< package) have failed thus far.
Before you mess with CPM and disks get the SOL running! The screen of
garbage is either a broken VDM-1 (video card) or the CPU is out to lunch
do to a memory problem or other system fault.
Pull the disk controller out and get to the minimum system and trouble
shoot from there.
Also the Native os for the northstar controller is NS*dos not cp/m it
is possible that the version of cpm can be configured for the NS*
controller but not the terminal IO used in the SOL so it would boot
and do nothing.
FYI: the most commonly replaced part is the CPU as it's is always
socketed. The least often failed part is the CPU!
If I were nearby I'd offer to help.
Allison
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From: allisonp(a)world.std.com (Allison J Parent)
To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers"
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Helios II disk drive - Sol-20
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Could I get a copy of the tape or a transcription?
Marty Mintzell
______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________
Subject: Re: Processor Technology Sol-20
Author: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu at internet
Date: 3/3/98 9:51 PM
At 18:31 3/3/98 -0800, Marvin wrote:
>Sam still has the audio masters for the original Vintage Computer Fair where
>Lee Felsenstein and (drawing a blank), the former president of Processor
>Technology
Bob Marsh.
>I don't recall the date they went out of
>business (1981???)
May 14, 1979.
__________________________________________
Kip Crosby engine(a)chac.org
http://www.chac.org/index.html
Computer History Association of California
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From: Kip Crosby <engine(a)chac.org>
To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers"
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Processor Technology Sol-20
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Does anyone in Orange County, California want a Victor 9000?
Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass
Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
Is a TI-8x or 92 a calculator or computer? I mean, a TI-92 uses a
68000 processor, has some 128k ram, and a full (if not full-sized)
keyboard. A friend of mine is making a multitasking shell for it.
>
>At 23:10 3/3/98 GMT, you wrote:
>>(now someone's going to turn round and tell us that the pointy-haired
>>bosses in hp hack on their hp48s during meetings, and wear their hair
>>that way because they don't know where to find a decent hairdresser.
>
>Pointy-haired bosses do NOT carry HP48's. They carry TI Math Explorers
>that they pinch off the carpet of their eighth-grader's bedroom, and
don't
>know how to use. The Math Explorer was sitting forlorn on the kid's
carpet
>because the kid saved up, bought a second-hand TI-85, and is sitting in
the
>backyard smoking a joint and hacking ZSHELL on the TI.
>
>__________________________________________
>Kip Crosby engine(a)chac.org
> http://www.chac.org/index.html
>Computer History Association of California
>
>
>
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
It arrived 10 minutes ago.
I'm so excited, I just put up a quick web page so you can all see it.
Its obviously not an IMSAI...? So... anyone know anything about it.
Comments appreciated (even "I want it!!")
Cheers
A
Datanumerics DL8A web page...
http://www.comcen.com.au/~adavie/weird/datanumerics.html
Does anybody know what the production numbers were for the Processor
Technology Sol-20? Also, does anybody know when PT went out of
business? Was it due to the Persci drives in the Helios II as I've
been told? A co-worker of mine said the Persci drive heads were
actuated by a voice coil and while they had an extremely fast access
time (for the day) they were unrelible. I'd appreciate any
information.
Thanks-
Marty Mintzell
<I could see a use for that... By making a NanoPC (?) small enough, I cou
<a console for my uVAX 2000 that I could tape (or something?) to the top o
<machine - Then I'd truly have a portable VAX!
<Maybe if I do go make creative use of batteries... Ehehe... VAX LUGGABL
<(That'd be fun for the trips to Indy! They could be driving away, and I
<hack VAX in the backseat..)
<-------
Seems the hard way to go. Try this.
Remove the RD5x and replace with two 3.5" mfm drives. Install one scsi
drive (for more space). remove power supply replace with one that
provides +12/-12/+5 from a 12vdc source. Use a laptop for terminal.
An alternate to replacing the power supply is use 12vdc to 120ac(240w)
power converter.
An alternate replacement for the PC (somewhat retro too) is to find one of
the various terminal boards sold in the early to mid 80s, add a keyboard
and a 12v monitor, tada a terminal. Most of those boards were
small (5x9" or smaller).
If your are running an OS that can use the vs2k console... use lk201 and
a small monochrome monitor that can hack the scan rates.
most of the 3100 series is in the same power needs class and could easily
be put on the road as well.
Also the qbus vaxen could be hacked for mobile use (there was a version of
the ba213/4 box that used DC power!).
Vax on the roll. Your would not be the first, the YACHT America
(Americas cup racing) back around 88 or so had a vax on board!
Allison
Now, it's not working again. Sorry, this discussion seems to be pretty one-sided. ;-)
Sorry,
Tim D. Hotze
-----Original Message-----
From: Hotze <photze(a)batelco.com.bh>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Wednesday, March 04, 1998 5:09 PM
Subject: Re: List not working?
Ok, so the list is working. Sorry.... and remember, we're trained proffesionals. Don't try this at M$.
-----Original Message-----
From: Hotze <photze(a)batelco.com.bh>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Wednesday, March 04, 1998 4:57 PM
Subject: List not working?
Hi. I recieve posts from ClassicCmp, but when I try to send it, I get a "mailbag full" error...
Thanks,
Tim D. Hotze
(Please contact me at photze(a)batelco.com.bh if you have more info)
Ok, so the list is working. Sorry.... and remember, we're trained proffesionals. Don't try this at M$.
-----Original Message-----
From: Hotze <photze(a)batelco.com.bh>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Wednesday, March 04, 1998 4:57 PM
Subject: List not working?
Hi. I recieve posts from ClassicCmp, but when I try to send it, I get a "mailbag full" error...
Thanks,
Tim D. Hotze
(Please contact me at photze(a)batelco.com.bh if you have more info)
>Nice but what would CP/M (rememberthis is 8080/z80) do with 500mb? The
>whole of multimple archives fits on a single CDrom! CP/M systems did not
>suffer code bloat so smaller devices tend t fill very slowly. Something
>under 100mb is more resonable for my project.
Don't ask me!!! I didn't know waht CP/M was until a week ago. Funny story.
I've looked all over the Internet for stuff on my II+, but found II, IIc,
IIe, etc. stuff instead. Then, I look at my school library, and I find a
84/85 edition of a kind of "computer encyclopedia", and a book called "Apple
II User's Guide", which only covers the ][ and the ][+.
>????? What are they and approximate cost.
For the 80 MB version, it's soupossed to cost around $80. Be warned, these
are 1" chips that are soupossed to contain Windows 95/98 on them (with room
for expansion, etc.) It's like a hard disk on a chip. I've only heard
about them. The advantage is relatively low cost, but definately lower
power consumption and less space. I'm trying to build a machine myself.
Right now, I'm into hardware, software'll come later. I'm thinking an ELKS
machine, or such. Where the heck can I get hardware that isn't aimed for
10,000 units? Like 1 or 2? Using IDE, probably a 386/486 chip, and I'd
need graphics, etc. Can someone please help me?
Thanks,
Tim D. Hotze
Hi. I recieve posts from ClassicCmp, but when I try to send it, I get a "mailbag full" error...
Thanks,
Tim D. Hotze
(Please contact me at photze(a)batelco.com.bh if you have more info)
I'm trying to make a "semi-nano PC" myself...
><3.5"? That's a "standard" off-the-shelf IDE disk, isn't it? 2.5" is
><a standard off-the-shelf laptop IDE drive. 1.8" drives are also
>I'd rather 2.5 or smaller but a really cheap 3.5 is ok.
2.5" drives arn't hard to find. A while back, Data Probe
(http://www.dataprobeintl.com ; sales(a)dataprobeintl.com) had even 500MB
notebook drives for around $50 (used), they were 2.5". They weren't listed
on their website, you'd have to ask them...
And, I'd recommend the Kittyhawks. That, or there's soupossed to be a
re-writable ROM-like 1" square coming out, right now, they've got 20 and 40
MB versions,with 80MB coming soon...
>>The is at most a one up for myself(non commercial design).
Same here.
Ciao,
Tim D. Hotze
<(http://www.dataprobeintl.com ; sales(a)dataprobeintl.com) had even 500MB
<notebook drives for around $50 (used), they were 2.5". They weren't lis
Nice but what would CP/M (rememberthis is 8080/z80) do with 500mb? The
whole of multimple archives fits on a single CDrom! CP/M systems did not
suffer code bloat so smaller devices tend t fill very slowly. Something
under 100mb is more resonable for my project.
<And, I'd recommend the Kittyhawks. That, or there's soupossed to be a
<re-writable ROM-like 1" square coming out, right now, they've got 20 and
????? What are they and approximate cost.
Allison
-----Original Message-----
From: Eve Guerney
Oops, Eve is my daughter! I must learn to make sure the message gets posted
>from the correct account on this machine
I may as well take the chance and add some real demography info.
I'm new to actually collecting old micros, but I have thought about if for a
while! I have my original VIC-20, C64, Amiga500 and now also a beautiful
mint condition TRS80 Model II and an Apple ][+ and a one owner Atari 800. I
got a Coco1 and a CoCo2 this week, consoles only, but I can't get anything
on the TV from them yet so they may be just rubbish.
I'm a mid-40's scientist working in the minerals business in Brisbane,
Australia. I DREAMED of owning a Sorcerer more than anything else in the
world when a postgraduate student (graduate student to you North Americans)
in 1978, then in 1979 a PET would have done me. Money shortage kept me from
actually owning a micro until the VIC-20 dropped to $A299 here in 1982. I
joined the local Commodore Users Group and stayed with them through the C64
and the Amiga days, even becoming President of the group for two years
through the last days of Commodore while our membership finished its
shrinkage from over 1000 (in the late 1980's) to less than 50 now.
Now I am just learning the best ways of picking up and looking after these
marvellous machines. Any other Australians who want to make themselves known
to me are welcome.
>from Phil Guerney
Brisbane, Australia.
I should be more careful what I say.
It's not a clone of an 8800b. I have no idea about the 8800a.
A
-----Original Message-----
From: Doug Yowza <yowza(a)yowza.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Wednesday, March 04, 1998 5:57 PM
Subject: Re: Datanumerics DL8A is here! Have a peek @ ...
>On Wed, 4 Mar 1998, Andrew Davie wrote:
>
>> It arrived 10 minutes ago.
>> I'm so excited, I just put up a quick web page so you can all see it.
>> Its obviously not an IMSAI...? So... anyone know anything about it.
>> Comments appreciated (even "I want it!!")
>
>OK, I want it!! Very cool. It looks a lot like an Altair (from the pix,
>I saw a one-to-one correspondence to Altair toggles). According to Hans
>Pufal's list, it came out the same year as the Altair (1975):
> http://www.digiweb.com/~hansp/ccc/clist3.htm
>
>Any chance it is an Altair in sheep's clothing?
>
>-- Doug
>
>
OK... while we're on off topic, ;-) Is there any way that I could get my
hands on the individual componets for making a "nano PC", prefferably just a
small one?
-----Original Message-----
From: Doug Yowza <yowza(a)yowza.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Tuesday, March 03, 1998 10:35 PM
Subject: Re: Off-charter chatter: nano-PC's
>>On Tue, 3 Mar 1998, Tim Shoppa wrote:
>>
>>> I just received some brochures from my local embedded PC supplier, and
>some
>>> of the miniaturization that's being done is incredible. There's a
>>> company in Germany called JUMPtec which sells a product called the
>>> DIMM-PC; it puts a 33 MHz 80386, 4 Mbytes of RAM, a bootable flash
>>> harddisk and an AMI BIOS, a real time clock, and interfaces for
>>> external IDE drives, floppy drives, printer, 2 COM ports, and keyboard
>>> all on a board that is only 68mm x 40mm (that's 1.57 x 2.68 inches.)
>>
>>Wow, a keyboard in that form factor is incredible :-) You're right, there
>>are lots of choices in the embedded space. The smallest full-blown PC
>>with built-in display and keyboard that I know of has gotta be the IBM
>>PC-110. For a size comparison of a normal laptop, a PC-110, and IBM's
>>(new?) credit-card computer, see:
>> http://www.kako.com/museum/ibm.html
>>
>>To get even further off-topic, has anybody here written 6805 wristapps for
>>their Timex/Microsoft DataLink watch? Try:
>> http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/7650/
>>
>>-- Doug
>>
>>
>
Re: Sorcerers down Under.
There was a strong user group base down here in the late 70s and early 80s.
I remember having a real hard time deciding between a Sorcerer and an Atari
800. I eventually chose the Atari, with no regrets. But, I seem to
remember the Sorcerer as being fairly common.
Not easy to find now, but a lot of us down under collectors seem to have one
or two (or three, but I won't tease too much).
Cheers
A
-----Original Message-----
From: Sam Ismail <dastar(a)wco.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Wednesday, March 04, 1998 7:17 PM
Subject: Re: Demography?
>On Mon, 2 Mar 1998, Lawrence Wilkinson wrote:
>
>> I'm a fairly recent arrival to this list. I'm 34, a New Zealander, and
>> I've lived in the UK for almost 4 years.
><...>
>>
>> I started doing various programming work on machines like TRS80 &
>> clones, Sorcerer, including quite a few BIOSes for CP/M, including one
> ^^^^^^^^
>It seems that a lot of you blokes down under have Sorcerers. Were they
>marketed a lot more "down there" than they were in the US? They are not
>very common over here.
>
>Sam Alternate e-mail:
dastar(a)siconic.com
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
>Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer,
Jackass
>
> Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
> See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
>
>
Here's the response from Jim Sciuto, "Gold Recovery Expert". A hint of
promise, I suppose.
Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass
Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 19:34:48 -0500
From: Qs <quiksand(a)tiac.net>
To: Sam Ismail <dastar(a)wco.com>
Subject: Re: Hello
I will visit your web page and keep you in mind, sometimes the historical
value of things do outweigh its scrap value.
Regards,
Jim Sciuto
-----Original Message-----
From: Sam Ismail <dastar(a)wco.com>
To: quiksand(a)tiac.net <quiksand(a)tiac.net>
Cc: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Sunday, March 01, 1998 11:36 PM
Subject: Hello
>To: Jim Sciuto, "Gold Recovery Expert"
> http://www.tiac.net/users/quiksand/goldtek.htm
>
>I invite you to take the time to discover the wonderful efforts a group
>of dedicated individuals around the globe are engaged in to preserve
>some of the historically significant vintage computer equipment that you
>may be scrapping for its precious metals. In some cases, the machines
>you are melting down have more historic value than any monetary value
>you may be extracting from their circuits.
>
>I realize this is how you make your living, but I think you will find
>the efforts of these computer preservations at least interesting, if not
>compelling.
>
>Any assistance you can afford us in preserving the more rare artifacts
>of our computer heritage that you come in contact with or possesion of
>would be much appreciated. I invite you to visit the Vintage Computer
>Festival web page:
>
>http://www.siconic.com/vcf
>
>Sincerely,
>
>Sam Ismail
>Vintage Technology Cooperative
>http://www.siconic.com/vcf
>
tony duell:
:>have a feeling that eventually all obsolete computer equipment in
:>britain will gravitate to chez duell...
:I wish.... There are still machines I am looking for - PDP's other
:than the 8 or the 11, a straight-8, more P800 series stuff, etc,
:etc,etc. Oh, and somewhere to put them :-)
well, the schematics for the pdp6 are available, so at a pinch you could
always rebuild one. :>
:> on the other hand, it makes the electronics more difficult, as
:>suddenly you have to design a pll that will reliably lock to
:>about 10 different data rates, rather than just one, not to
:>mention making sure the
:Not that hard. You design it as a synthesiser, of course. Probably
:not that much worse (and similar in design) to the multi-speed
:motor controller.
probably. in fact, it might even be easier, because you don't have to
worry about controlling anything physical. on the other hand, since
you'd need a speed regulator in the disk drive anyway (and iwrc they
tend to be plls) you might as well give that a range of frequencies to
chew on and keep the data transfer stuff simple.
there are arguments either way - about the only thing we would say,
though, is that software is cheaper than hardware in scrap terms, and
whereas commodore was already huge, woz was on a leguminous budget.
:> controller can handle it. to make it practical to decode in
:>software, the apple probably got it right - and let's face it,
:>certainly in later
:Being a hardware hacker, I've never liked the Apple approach to
:doing everything in software, alas...
ah, but we're a software hacker, so we just love it. :> besides, there's
a certain beauty in finding that you can do something with the bare
minimum of hardware.
:There were certainly non-compatible 386 machines - didn't Sequent
:make some? (multi-processor unix boxen..) No, I don't have one -
:yet!
yes, we believe so. there were other non-compatible 386 offerings too,
were there not - eg. sun 386s...? but then it's a lot easier to make a
non-compatible 386, given its somewhat multiplicitous architecture. just
ignore real mode in the design of the hardware and you're away...
protected mode on the 286, though, should have had more made of it. it
was a missed opportunity.
--
Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling
you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her...
My demographics:
I'm 33 and from Sydney, Australia. I'm a Taswegian by birth, and my first
intro to computers was a gift of a 4 function calculator from my mother when
I was 10. That particular unit (a CASIO) had a problem dividing by 0 - it
tried to!! The display patiently counted from 0 up to... well I never saw
it stop before the batteries gave out. I guess thats what started my prime
interest in computers - the quirky and unusual.
Mixed with a dollop of nostalgia (it's not what it used to be), and you have
me today - a collector of just about anything that calculates and isn't too
big (we're renting). So, slide rules, mechanical calculators, handheld
electronic calculators and recently some of the early home micros and game
machines. That's my collecting field. Our house blows a fuse when I turn
on the dishwasher and the washing machine; there's just no way I'm going to
have a mainframe running here for anything over a couple of milliseconds.
I'm a programmer by nature - having earned my stripes on the console
machines of the mid to late 80s (Nintendo and Super Nintendo, Commodore 64,
etc). Mainly 6502 stuff. I'm now programming what we call Interactive
Multipath Movies - real time rendered 3D movies with which you can interact
and see story changes as you interact. Its quite neat, actually - I just
bought shares in our company.
Anyway, my other passion is lost information. I find the search for missing
information - the gathering together of widely dislocated pieces - somewhat
enjoyable. Why, just today I tracked down the original owner of my Exidy
Sorcerer. I've been known to track down the owner of a slide rule deposited
in a junk store some 20 years ago. He was rather surprised to hear from a
guy from Australia - and unfortunately thought I was a kook!
Well, maybe I am :)
I'm married to a lovely American lady, and we have two rugrats. The kids
just love circular slide rules and my little girl (3yo) begs me to let her
clean my calculators. Which, of course, I do.
I invite you all to visit my web sites, devoted to various parts of my
collecting interests...
Museum of Soviet Calculators (currently a Yahoo! and Netscape Cool LInk)
http://www.comcen.com.au/~adavie/slide/calculator/soviet.html
Slide Rule Trading Post
http://www.comcen.com.au/~adavie/slide/
Weird Computing Machines
http://www.comcen.com.au/~adavie/weird/
I have various other sites, but not related to computing. I'm hoping,
eventually, to move back to Tasmania - the place I grew up and the place my
heart longs for. Of course, my computers and calculators will move with me.
I'm sure the wife and kids will come too :)
My collection consists of the following, and lots of widgets I forget...
Wang calculator (interesting)
Altair 8800b
Kaypro II
Exidy Sorcerers
OSI Challenger
Atari 800
Commodore C64
KIM-1
BBC
Creativision
Soviet Calculators (about a dozen)
HP calculators (nearly, but not quite, the whole set)
Slide rules
and the prize....
a Thatcher Calculator.
I welcome all emails, but warn that due to the large amount of email my
sites generate I'm sometimes less than quick to respond!
Cheers
A
adavie(a)mad.scientist.com
I snarfed this ad off some classified ads web site. Maybe someone in
Southern Cal has a truck handy....
----------------------------------------------------------------------
COMPLETE network system, 1 mainframe, 7 stations,
fast & reliable, great for small business, sacrifice, $350
or trade for ?
(310) 822-4052
$350
--
mor(a)crl.com
http://www.crl.com/~mor/
I made some nice acquisitions to add to the old silicon heap today.
I found an ATR-8000 ($7). The ATR-8000 was an adjunct CP/M box for the
Atari 400/800/XL computers. To use it, you plugged a special cart into
the Atari which was really just a terminal program. The Atari then acted
as a terminal to the ATR-8000 (the connection from the ATR-8000 to the
Atari was via serial cable). The ATR-8000 had external connectors for
floppy drives (since you couldn't actually use the Atari drives on the
ATR) and a printer connector. The ATR-8000 could actually be used as a
stand-alone CP/M computer if you wanted to. You could just connect a
terminal and some disk drives to it and voila, instant CP/M machine.
Which is interesting to note because...
The next find was ANOTHER ATR-8000 (!) but this time with a TeleVideo 925
terminal and two half-height dual floppy drives attached to it.
Basically, an ATR-8000 in a stand-alone configuration! Cool. But this
was even a better deal...$5 for the whole lot.
My next nice find was an Intellec MDS chassis. The ship date on the back
shows 10/77 so I imagine it is a later model than what I've seen in
pictures. The front panel has 8 interrupt switches, and a momentary BOOT
switch and a RESET switch. There's also a HALT and RUN light. There were
two cards inside...one is a Monitor Module and the other is a wire-wrap
mess that I can't figure out. I also got a bare wire-wrap card. The
chassis was slightly beat up, as some parts of the face ridges were broken
off, so I talked the guy down to $10.
I got a Momenta pen-based computer. It's shaped like a wedge. I got it
in the box but it was in so-so shape. I got two battery packs but neither
is charged, and unfortunately I didn't get the charger or wall apadtor
with it. On the box it said "For technical service call 1-800-MOMENTA"
so I called but it rang and rang. A sort of good sign I guess. I'll try
during the week and see what I get. I'd be interested to know anything
that anyone possibly knows about this thing. Circa 1991. $15.
I found a real nice book: _Microcomputer Dictionary: (Second Edition)_ by
Charles J. Sippl (Howard Samms, 1981, ISBN: 0-672-21696-5). It has some
more excellent pictures of stuff I've never even heard of or seen before.
I'll be scanning these pictures in and posting them to the web page.
Of course it also has all sorts of definitions for computer terms and
such. $1.
Next find was a this kinky little Japanse 286 box, a Sharp MZ-6500 Model
50. All the markings were in Japanese (or is that more properly Kanji?).
It had a "100V" plug as well as a strange plug that I assume is for
outlets in Japan. It has two 3.5" floppies, an ST-125 HD, and a strange
motherboard layout. It was in superb shape. Not really a classic, but
cool looking. The guy wanted to get rid of it so I got it for $3.
Other finds: a DEC VT-100 terminal for $.50 (yes, cents), and a TI-99/4a
for laughs.
It was a good day.
Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass
Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
I've placed the requested view on the page...
http://www.comcen.com.au/~adavie/weird/datanumerics.html
The motherboard is marked REV A
The serial # of the machine is 00029
I doubt there could have been many more of these made.
Enjoy!
A
-----Original Message-----
From: Greg Troutman <mor(a)crl.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Wednesday, March 04, 1998 6:06 PM
Subject: Re: Datanumerics DL8A is here! Have a peek @ ...
>Andrew Davie wrote:
>>
>> It arrived 10 minutes ago.
>> I'm so excited, I just put up a quick web page so you can all see it.
>> Its obviously not an IMSAI...? So... anyone know anything about it.
>> Comments appreciated (even "I want it!!")
>
>She's purdy. How about a tight close-up on the data switches and status
>lights--I've got a fetish ;)
Altair in sheep's clothing? Not a chance! Wait till you see inside!
The motherboard is organised in ROWS of chips, something like A to F
And... it's stationed at the top (ie: roof) of the machine.
Amazing amazing. Its an 8080A by the way.
A
-----Original Message-----
From: Doug Yowza <yowza(a)yowza.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Wednesday, March 04, 1998 5:57 PM
Subject: Re: Datanumerics DL8A is here! Have a peek @ ...
>On Wed, 4 Mar 1998, Andrew Davie wrote:
>
>> It arrived 10 minutes ago.
>> I'm so excited, I just put up a quick web page so you can all see it.
>> Its obviously not an IMSAI...? So... anyone know anything about it.
>> Comments appreciated (even "I want it!!")
>
>OK, I want it!! Very cool. It looks a lot like an Altair (from the pix,
>I saw a one-to-one correspondence to Altair toggles). According to Hans
>Pufal's list, it came out the same year as the Altair (1975):
> http://www.digiweb.com/~hansp/ccc/clist3.htm
>
>Any chance it is an Altair in sheep's clothing?
>
>-- Doug
>
>
Hi,
Does anyone know anything about the AT&T 6300? I've read a few
descriptions on the Web,
but was wondering if they are rare, difficult to find, etc? I have an
opportunity to get one
but don't know much about them.
Thanks...Win
wheagy(a)erols.com
Hi Andrew!
I have a lead for you - Acorn BBC books and software for sale in Vic, for
$5. phone (03) 9596-6454.
Also, if you are intersted, I know of three computers for sale which may
interest you. In Vic there is an Amstrad PCW 8512 - you probably know
them, but they are word processors with CP/M compatability, reasonably
common but they can be hard to come by. And in Adelaide there are two -
a faulty Apple Lisa 2/10 (bad HD, possibly repairable) for $150, and a HP
9835 desktop computer, with 9" drive, software and connectors for $50.
Any of these interest you? If you want the Lisa I'll have to get it
soon, but I do have the original OS somewhere which I can copy off for
you, and unprotect at least the system disk - however I can't do so (yet)
with the apps. No rush with the HP, though.
Adam.
OK... while we're on off topic, ;-) Is there any way that I could get my
hands on the individual componets for making a "nano PC", prefferably just a
small one?
-----Original Message-----
From: Doug Yowza <yowza(a)yowza.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Tuesday, March 03, 1998 10:35 PM
Subject: Re: Off-charter chatter: nano-PC's
>On Tue, 3 Mar 1998, Tim Shoppa wrote:
>
>> I just received some brochures from my local embedded PC supplier, and
some
>> of the miniaturization that's being done is incredible. There's a
>> company in Germany called JUMPtec which sells a product called the
>> DIMM-PC; it puts a 33 MHz 80386, 4 Mbytes of RAM, a bootable flash
>> harddisk and an AMI BIOS, a real time clock, and interfaces for
>> external IDE drives, floppy drives, printer, 2 COM ports, and keyboard
>> all on a board that is only 68mm x 40mm (that's 1.57 x 2.68 inches.)
>
>Wow, a keyboard in that form factor is incredible :-) You're right, there
>are lots of choices in the embedded space. The smallest full-blown PC
>with built-in display and keyboard that I know of has gotta be the IBM
>PC-110. For a size comparison of a normal laptop, a PC-110, and IBM's
>(new?) credit-card computer, see:
> http://www.kako.com/museum/ibm.html
>
>To get even further off-topic, has anybody here written 6805 wristapps for
>their Timex/Microsoft DataLink watch? Try:
> http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/7650/
>
>-- Doug
>
>
I'm trying to make a "semi-nano PC" myself...
><3.5"? That's a "standard" off-the-shelf IDE disk, isn't it? 2.5" is
><a standard off-the-shelf laptop IDE drive. 1.8" drives are also
>I'd rather 2.5 or smaller but a really cheap 3.5 is ok.
2.5" drives arn't hard to find. A while back, Data Probe
(http://www.dataprobeintl.com ; sales(a)dataprobeintl.com) had even 500MB
notebook drives for around $50 (used), they were 2.5". They weren't listed
on their website, you'd have to ask them...
And, I'd recommend the Kittyhawks. That, or there's soupossed to be a
re-writable ROM-like 1" square coming out, right now, they've got 20 and 40
MB versions,with 80MB coming soon...
>The is at most a one up for myself(non commercial design).
Same here.
Ciao,
Tim D. Hotze
>I'll differ on this point. one of the primary things that killed the
'6300
>was that it was NOT totally IBM compatable. The video subsystem (noted
>below) is a prime example.
Is it possible to somehow slap a CGA or any standard monitor into
one of those?
>>Hard drives were optional in them and not very reliable IMO.
>
>The drives they used overall were not notably better or worse than most
of
>the time. They did make some poor choices at times on who to buy their
>drives from.
>
I will say that my only experience w/a 6300 was one that got to me
because of a dead hard drive. I ended up gutting and trashing it. I
hold old microchips in the fan housing. This was also my only experience
with a dead hard drive.
Was the thing designed for UNIX or was it just a plain "enhanced" PC
clone?
P.S. In OOP, can an object kill another object to inherit it?
>---
>jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com
>The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw
>Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174
>
>
>
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>It seems that a lot of you blokes down under have Sorcerers. Were they
>marketed a lot more "down there" than they were in the US? They are not
>very common over here.
They aren't common here, but in Adelaide (South Australia) we still have
a Sorcerer's User Group running. I suspect that it is entirely social,
but it is there. Because Dick Smith imported them so early, it was one
of (if not the) first complete microcomputer systems available here, and
even then Dick Smith had a fairly large chain of stores. This gave it a
major advantage over its rivals (aside from the fact that it is a pretty
good system in teh first place). I also know someone who took one with
him when he went to the Antartic for 12 months. :)
Dick Smith, as I believe Andrew mentioned, sold a number of computers
here. The Sorcerer was sold as a Sorcerer, but they also sold the TRS-80
clone he mentioned (the System 80), two Laser computers (the Dick Smith
VZ-200 and VZ-300), the Creativision (the Dick Smith Wizzard), a kit
computer (the Super 80), and an Apple II clone (the Dick Smith Cat). I
was told the System 80 was a rebadged Laser, but I don't remember if they
made TRS-80 clones, and can't find any evidence to prove that the System
80 wasn't DSE's own system. The Super 80 I believe was actually theirs,
but I don't have one to check, and the Cat I assume was a rebadged clone
- I have a lead on one, but I have to go collect it. :) The VZs and
Wizzard were simply rebadged.
After a while they just started importing PC clones like everone else. I
do remember they had the one luggable, which I imagine was CP/M based,
but I'd have to do some research to find out who's it was.
Adam.
On Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 00:53:07 -0500 (EST), J. Maynard Gelinas"
<jmg(a)iac.net> wrote:
>>Yeah, I think you would be better off netbooting the thing via
>>bootp rather than building a bootable tape. I have a couple 3/80's
>>here at home, and there are bunches of old 3/50's lying around at work
>>(the government owns them, they'll be there till the sun explodes).
>>The 3/50 didn't support CDROM's from the PROM as I remember, so you're
>>going to have to either make a bootable tape or netboot it. Do you
>>have another UNIX or Linux box and a LAN nearby?
I have a small Windows LAN at home, but no Unix boxes setup. I guess
that this weekend I'll be setting one up...
Rich Cini/WUGNET
<nospam_rcini(a)msn.com> (remove nospam_ to use)
ClubWin! Charter Member (6)
MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking
============================================
On Tue, 03 Mar 1998 01:56:54 +0000, David Wollmann <dwollmann(a)ibmhelp.com>
wrote:
>>I bet if I look in storage I still have a couple of parted-out S/23s
>>from which I could lift the ROM you need. Since I'm not much on the
>>electronics side of things (I'm just a poor board-swapper) give me the
>>numbers and a general idea of where it's located in the box and I'll see
>>if I have one. May take me a couple of weeks.
It is the "09" ROS. Here's the diagram that I got from Philip Belben:
** TOP VIEW OF PLANAR SEEN FROM THE REAR **
_______________________________________________
| ====== ====== <-- NOT FOUND ON |
| | 10 | | 11 | <-- SOME EARLY |
| =3=40= =3=60= <-- MACHINES |
| |
| ====== ====== |
| | 19 | | 0D | |
| =7=60= =1=60= |
| *********************** |
| =PATCH= ====== * PHYSICAL LOCATION * |
| | 18 | | 0C | * OF ROS MODULES * |
| =7=40== =1=40= * FOR EACH ERROR CODE * |
| *********************** |
| ====== ====== |
| | 17 | | 0B | -KEY- |
| =6=60= =0=60= ====== |
| | XX | |
| ====== ====== =Y=ZZ= |
| | 16 | | 0A | XX=POD ERROR CODE |
| =6=40= =0=40= Y=ROS PAGE VALUE |
| ZZ=HIGH ORDER BYTE OF |
| ====== ====== FIRST ADDRESS IN |
| | 15 | | 09 | ROS MODULE. |
| =5=60= =0=20= |
| ---(CABLE)-------------- |
| ====== ====== | ====== | |
| | 14 | | 02 | | | 09 | CO-PLANAR | |
| =5=40= =0=00= | =0=20= BOARD. | |
| | (FOUND ON | |
| ====== | ====== SOME EARLY | |
| | 13 | | | 10 | MACHINES.) | |
| =4=60= | =3=40= | |
| | | |
| ====== | ====== | |
| | 12 | | | 11 | | |
| =4=40= | =3=60= | |
| ------------------------ |
-----------------------------------------------
Rich Cini/WUGNET
<nospam_rcini(a)msn.com> (remove nospam_ to use)
ClubWin! Charter Member (6)
MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking
============================================
On 1998-03-03 classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu said to lisard(a)zetnet.co.uk
:As Joe said, HP classed a lot of things as 'calculators' to get
:round daft export rules...
:IIRC, officially the HP71B is a computer (QWERTY keyboard, Basic),
:but the HP48 is a calculator (alphabetical keyboard, RPL). They use
:virtually the same processor (Saturn), although the HP48 has a few
:more machine instructions.
cx ( <- hello, from firstborn)
it's possible that marketing could have something to do with that too.
we'd rather, and we suspect most engineers would rather, use the hp48 -
but since rpl fits in well with hp's use of rpn in its calculator range,
it probably fit better into the calculator family, and would have been
more targeted at the engineers who cut their teeth on its predecessors.
:> (or do their design engineers just design things they can hack
:>between meetings? ;> )
:You mean _during_ meetings, surely...
well, we meant between design meetings, when one would assume they'd all
be focused on designing the next piece of kit they could hack during
meetings with the pointy-haired bosses... ;>
(now someone's going to turn round and tell us that the pointy-haired
bosses in hp hack on their hp48s during meetings, and wear their hair
that way because they don't know where to find a decent hairdresser.
we've heard about hp.)
--
Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling
you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her...
On Mon, 02 Mar 1998 20:45:17 -0500, John Ruschmeyer <jruschme(a)exit109.com>
wrote:
>>suppose the first question is... what OS is on the PC? If you were
>>running some unix variant (Linux or *BSD), then you could just netboot the
>>Sun and go from there.
I think what I'll probably too is trash the HD on an "experimental" 486
that I have and install either NetBSD or SCO OpenServer. From there, I
should be able to create a boot tape and an install tape, and then start the
install from the 3/50
>>Just a thought, your might want to join the Suns-At-Home mailing list
Thanks for the SAH list. I already belong. No specific ideas from anyone
there yet.
Rich Cini/WUGNET
<nospam_rcini(a)msn.com> (remove nospam_ to use)
ClubWin! Charter Member (6)
MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking
============================================
doug:
:Intel themselves produced non-pc-compatible 286 machines (and
:others, of course). Do we have any hypercube hackers here?
oh, yes, we'd forgotten them... does anyone know where we can *get* one,
more to the point? :> but we meant things that were more like the sirius
1 in conception - desktop machines, but not stuck with the cruddy pc
architecture.
--
Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling
you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her...
On 1998-03-02 classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu said to lisard(a)zetnet.co.uk
:I bought several and am toying with making a few "ultra miniature"
:computer accessories ("matchbox" computers?)
off-topic, but...
the computer we would really love to use has a main box that's the size
of 2 3.5" floppy drives one atop the other, and standing on that is a
little 6" mono crt with a resolution of 384x256. the keyboard is about
the size of the keyboard on the cambridge z88. the processor is a
hitachi 6309 running in native mode, and the software is forth. and you
have to hold the thing when you put a disk in. needless to say, there's
no hard drive, but the floppy can fit 1800 screens on it, so that's no
problem.
of course, it was never made... but we'd love to see it.
--
Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling
you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her...
zane healy on ge635...
:IIRC they ran either GECOS (General Electric Comprehinsive Operating
:System), or the better known Multics. I believe they are also an
they ran gecos. the ge645 would support multics, but the 635 didn't have
the paging hardware. the multics faqs make great reading, btw.
http://www.best.com/thvv/ (from memory, might be wrong, might be ~thvv)
--
Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling
you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her...
tony duell:
:Another thing worth grabbing are old data books. There are standard
:chips that are used in old computers - things like the 8271 disk
:controller, the AM2900 bit-slice chips, 4004's and 4040's, etc that
:don't appear in recent data books. A data sheet will help you to
:determine if a chip has failed, and how to make a replacement if it
:has. I'm trying to obtain all that I can.
before we were seriously interested in this stuff - or rather, since we
were designing 68000-based computers at the age of 12, between interests
- we had a whole stack of data sheets donated by a teacher's boyfriend
who worked for the uk distributors of sage before they became stride.
(what happened to them, btw?) it's a damned shame that when we were
about 16 we threw the whole lot out to regain some space in our bedroom.
if only we knew then... :< we'd give anything to have them back.
--
Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling
you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her...
max eskin...
:I have heard enough on this topic without understanding what it
:meant! What is the difference between vector and bitmapped graphics,
:and who was first to use each? Why are vector graphics
:stereotypically used in mainframes and bitmapped used in cheap
:weenie "home computers"?
dunno about first - but in vector graphics, you have a crt under direct
control of the computer, and you tell it to go to a point, switch the
beam on, go to another point, maybe switch the beam off, etc. etc. very
high resolution, but refresh speed is inversely proportional to the
number of lines on the display. in bitmapped graphics, you use a
conventional rasterised display (the horizontal lines) and a map of
bits which correspond to each line of the display and say whether the
beam is on or off at that point. unless you count williams tubes, vector
graphics came first, because you could use any old oscilloscope and
memory was precious. now memory is cheap enough to make bitmaps viable
in even the smallest computers, and monitors are readily available. the
price paid is blocky lines.
--
Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling
you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her...
< Does anybody know what the production numbers were for the Processor
< Technology Sol-20? Also, does anybody know when PT went out of
< business? Was it due to the Persci drives in the Helios II as I've
< been told? A co-worker of mine said the Persci drive heads were
< actuated by a voice coil and while they had an extremely fast access
< time (for the day) they were unrelible. I'd appreciate any
< information.
crock!
PT like many of the time were susceptable to the volitile market and
over extended and went under. Good machine and the Persci drives were
very late in the program when they were nearly gone.
I think the SOL-20 was about 10,000 before the folded.
Allison
<One more question to go along with this subject. I obtained a Sol but
<have no disk drive. What does it take to add the disk interface and wha
<disk drive would work. Any disk based software or OS available?
The micropolos and NorthStar controllers and matching drives were common.
Most any s100 floppy or hard disk system could be used if:
=The controller would work well with a 2mhz 8080 (some DD controllers
would not).
=the controller fit in the available slots (there were only a few)
=The controller didn't use too much power
=The drive had their own power supply
Allison
The North Star setup was pretty common on the SOL. I have CP/M set up for
the SOL with a North Star disk system. You'd need a North Star controller
board, and any standard external 5 1/4" drive.
Kai
> -----Original Message-----
> From: George Rachor [SMTP:george@racsys.rt.rain.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 1998 1:37 PM
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
> Subject: Re: Processor Technology Sol-20
>
> One more question to go along with this subject. I obtained a Sol but
> have no disk drive. What does it take to add the disk interface and what
> disk drive would work. Any disk based software or OS available?
>
> George Rachor
>
> =========================================================
> George L. Rachor george(a)racsys.rt.rain.com
> Beaverton, Oregon http://racsys.rt.rain.com
>
> On Tue, 3 Mar 1998, Marty wrote:
>
> > Does anybody know what the production numbers were for the Processor
> > Technology Sol-20? Also, does anybody know when PT went out of
> > business? Was it due to the Persci drives in the Helios II as I've
> > been told? A co-worker of mine said the Persci drive heads were
> > actuated by a voice coil and while they had an extremely fast access
> > time (for the day) they were unrelible. I'd appreciate any
> > information.
> >
> > Thanks-
> >
> > Marty Mintzell
> >
> >
Some of the drives that I've seen actually have the connectors extending
out, as if they're on a seperate piece of equipment alltogether. Now,
anyone know about what type of power connector (small, like on a 1.44MB
floppy, large, like on normal HDDs, or non-standard?) Also, is there any
way to make a 44-pin connector into a 40-pin connector (for a standard
dekstop?) Also, I've gotten into the whole mini-PC idea. So, I want to
build one. The hard drive'll probably end up being a Kittyhawk, I'm
currently thinking an x86 CPU (as little power and size as possible. I know
that the AMD Elan 400 COULD work but I haven't seen them resold, and I'd
need drivers for the built in stuff, etc.) So, if anyone has any info on
this, I'd love for them to contact me personally. (If they could put
"Building a Mini-PC" or something in the subject, so I could know that it
wasn't a ClassicCmp post...)
TIA,
Tim D. Hotze
-----Original Message-----
From: Philip.Belben(a)powertech.co.uk <Philip.Belben(a)powertech.co.uk>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Tuesday, March 03, 1998 4:17 PM
Subject: Re[2]: A possible (future) classic.
>Joe on Kittyhawk drives:
>
>> Do these drives use a standard interface? They're neat drives, it's a
>> shame that HP quit building them.
>
>Gary pointed us at a web site:
>
>> http://www.allelec.com
>
>according to which they are 44-pin IDE the same as most laptop IDE
>drives. I'm not quite sure how that would fit in such a small drive,
>but...
>
>Philip.
>
<SurplusDirect (www.surplusdirect.com) had some 40mb PCMCIA hard drives o
<sale a while back. Brand new units, priced around $20-$40, can't recall
<exact price.
I don't have data on PCMCIA and removable is not a requirement. I will
look at them if I can find data on the interconnect as it's not going into
a PC.
Allison
<3.5"? That's a "standard" off-the-shelf IDE disk, isn't it? 2.5" is
<a standard off-the-shelf laptop IDE drive. 1.8" drives are also
I'd rather 2.5 or smaller but a really cheap 3.5 is ok.
<Are you looking for drives that are still produced in quantity? If not,
<the Kittyhawk 20MB drive would be a good one to get (at the website
<mentioned previously).
The is at most a one up for myself(non commercial design).
Allison
The Kittyhawk is pretty small, and I don't know of any machine other tha
<the Dauphin DTR-1 what used it. I don't think it's the smallest though.
<Does anybody remember the Syquest SQ1100? Removable hard disks about th
<size of a box of matches. They produced them for OEM eval, but I don't
<think they ever made it to the retail channel. I have about 100 of them
As someone building a smaller z280/cpm system I'm in the hunt for a
IDE hard disk with a form factor 3.5" or smaller. I may be able to use
PCMCIA but a forsee them as too expensive. The storage can be small as
10mb and anything over 60-80mb is gross overkill(I'll take bigger but I
really dont need it). My other requirements is known good and real
cheap.
Allison
I have acquired an old "kit" computer, circa 1977. The CPU has a trademark like a double script N, slanted to the right, with one superimposed on the other. Most of the other 10 or so smaller chips have the same mark.
Adjacent to this is the number 804 (the CPU ID?) Other numbers are ISP-8A, /500D and SC/MP.
It is the size and shape of a Z80 or 8085
Anyone have any idea what this is?
Thanks
Hans
PCMCIA drives are 2"W x 3 1/4"L x 3/8"H.
Note that the SyQuest media size doesn't really count because the rest of
the drive was in the PCMCIA card (heads, motor, electronics).
I have a DTR-1 also, BTW...
Kai
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Doug Yowza [SMTP:yowza@yowza.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 1998 9:51 AM
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
> Subject: Re: A possible (future) classic.
>
> On Tue, 3 Mar 1998, Doug Yowza wrote:
>
> > The Kittyhawk is pretty small, and I don't know of any machine other
> than
> > the Dauphin DTR-1 what used it. I don't think it's the smallest though.
> > Does anybody remember the Syquest SQ1100? Removable hard disks about
> the
> > size of a box of matches. They produced them for OEM eval, but I don't
> > think they ever made it to the retail channel. I have about 100 of
> them.
>
> I just got off my lazy butt and actually compared the two drives side by
> side. They are both the same width, but the kittyhawk is considerable
> shorter in length and taller.
>
> SQ1100 media: 1.8" x 2.0" x 3/16"
> Kittyhawk: 1.8" x 1 5/8" x 3/8"
> PCMCIA-II drives would need to be 3/16" tall or under, I'd guess.
>
> (measurements done with a crude tape measure.)
>
> -- Doug
I finally got the various pieces together that I need to hopefully setup
a shoebox for my 3/50. I have a copy of NetBSD on CD-ROM, the shoebox, and
60mb tapes.
My question is this: what is the best way to setup the shoebox with
NetBSD? I thought about hooking the shoebox and a CD up to a PeeCee and
trying to create a bootable tape (I don't know if this is even possible), or
copying the 68k distribution to the hard disk. If you read the FAQ on the
CD, it almost sounds like you need a bootable system to be able to install
it.
Any thoughts??
Rich Cini/WUGNET
<nospam_rcini(a)msn.com> (remove nospam_ to use)
ClubWin! Charter Member (6)
MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking
============================================
Hi,
I have a Sun 2/120 (actually a Computervision manufactured clone) that I
don't have room for. Condition is unknown, but it does have keyboard,
mouse, monitor and a few spare multibus boards. It is big and heavy, so
collection from Cambridge UK is preferred but I would consider
delivering to a location not that far from me.
--
Kevan
Old Computer Collector: http://www.heydon.org/kevan/collection/
> [S/34 3-Phase?]
> Naah, can't be. It doesn't have a 3-phase plug. It's a slightly smaller
> version of the round Hubbel plug (3 pins. 3-phase needs 4, right?) on my
> PDP-11 power boxes. Mine has power in the room still, I can power it up, but
You can do three phase on only three wires - most long distance power
lines are done that way - but that would be unearthed, and therefore not
recommended. If it is a 190/208V version rather than a 220/240V version
it is probably expecting two of the three phases plus ground.
> nobody knows a userid/password to IPL it...
> Is there some way around that?
Dunno. Passwords are only 4 letters IIRC so shouldn't be that difficult
to crack if you've got a terminal emulator card in a PC. I'm afraid a
quick glance through the pocket reference hasn't revealed anything
useful :-(
Philip.
> I did actually check this. It says 208. This is not awfully
> informative, AFAIK, because the voltage fluctuates +/- 5 or so anyway
> >Open the side opposite the CE panel, and look down by the 4 twinax
> connectors.
> >There shoud be a label saying what yours is wired for - Mine wants 204V
> AC.
Voltages like 204V and 208V mean it probably wants 3-phase. These are
the phase-to-phase voltages on three phase systems where the phase to
earth voltage is 117V and 120V respectively. It may only require two of
the three phases, in which case you might be able to convert...
The suggestion of using PC power supplies or similar is a good one but
you may need something a bit more powerful. You need to know how much
current it draws on each supply rail.
I seem to recall that someone on this list has a working S/34. Could
this person measure the current under various conditions? NB 5V rail
current could be 100A or more, so don't just stick a multimeter in
series with it! Use a proper shunt and millivoltmeter.
A while back, I mentioned that I have some system/34 pocket references
available to send to anyone with a s/34 who needs them. No-one has yet
replied that I've seen. Any takers? The OS pocket reference is very
thick (nearly 100 pages IIRC).
Philip.
PS Comparing the System/34 and the 8086 is not strictly fair - the 8086
appeared in laboratory tests in 1979 IIRC, while the S/34 was already on
sale in 1977 I think. Things did shrink _very_ fast at that period!
Also the S/34 has disks, - including my favourite floppy drive! - around
256K of memory, and other I/O that would have required several PC style
boxes full of support chips, drives etc. for the 8086 in the late '70s.
<I have acquired an old "kit" computer, circa 1977. The CPU has a =
<trademark like a double script N, slanted to the right, with one =
<superimposed on the other. Most of the other 10 or so smaller chips
<have = the same mark.
National Semiconductor.
<Adjacent to this is the number 804 (the CPU ID?) Other numbers are =
<ISP-8A, /500D and SC/MP.
there is a clue in the markings.
The part numebr is ISP-8A/500D, aka SC/MP. The (D) in the part number
says ceramic package. The part is implmented in an older P-channel MOS 3
voltage technology. A faster and single voltage Nmos version was about a
year later (ISP-8A/600).
<It is the size and shape of a Z80 or 8085
That means it has 40 pins.
<Anyone have any idea what this is?
That is the National Semiconductor SC/MP cpu on likely a evaluation kit
board. there were two versions one had a calculator like terminal and the
oter used rs232/tty interface to a terminal. The rom (5204) was a very
small 512byte monitor. It was a an interesting cpu though that version
was SLOW at 2-10uS per instruction.
I like to collect these(SBCs) as they are interesting though often not
very useful as implemented.
Allison
Joe on Kittyhawk drives:
> Do these drives use a standard interface? They're neat drives, it's a
> shame that HP quit building them.
Gary pointed us at a web site:
> http://www.allelec.com
according to which they are 44-pin IDE the same as most laptop IDE
drives. I'm not quite sure how that would fit in such a small drive,
but...
Philip.
Would anybody with SOrcerer technical information, including user group
newsletters and just about any Sorcerer documentation please contact me
directly? I'm trying to restore a pretty neato homebrew setup here and sure
could use some tech specs.
Includes a 5M hard drive, twin Micropolis drives and about 100+ disks of
software, custom BIOS mods for HD and FD access.... the works.
Cheers
A
>>I have a canon SX320!!
>You didn't mention it in your list. I did get the right machine, didn't
>I? I have a shoe-box full of program listings for it, except they're in
>NZ and the thermal paper has probably faded to nothing by now.
Yes, I checked the number this morning.
My Canon SX320 was inadvertently left out of the list, along with...
Sinclair ZX-81
(I've just ordered three unbuilt kits of these - still available NEW
on the web, would you believe!!)
Sinclair ZX-80
Sinclair Spectrum
Tandy TRS-80 MC-10 (a whacking great 3581 bytes of program memory :)
Canon 1614P (a punched card reading programmable desktop)
A couple of Sorcerers
Atari 800
Compucolor II
Datanumerics DL8A
... I've forgotten what else I've forgotten.
>Do you actually use it? I really can't remember much about it other
>than that you programmed it like a calculator, one function per line,
>and that alphanumeric output like prompts needed one line for each
>character, so program listings tended to get rather long. Did it have a
>tape storage or cartridges or something for programs?
I have not switched this machine on, actually. It is very dusty and sitting
in my office at work. I will be happy to take a pic and place on a website
should anyone be interested. It had a strange sort of tape storage - sort
of like a little toaster oven at the top right of the machine.
Unfortunately, due to multiple moves, I no longer have the tapes for this
unit :(
Cheers
A
My name is Jack Peacock. I'm 42, based in Las Vegas (Nevada, not that other
place in New Mexico). I got started in computers way back in 1971, on a
Univac 1106, with fixed head and moving head FASTRAND drums. Back then the
programming medium of choice was punch cards (yes, I even learned how to
program 026 keypunches using drum cards), and if you were lucky a turn at
the ASR33 teletype. Does anyone still remember that "other" character set
besides Baudot, ASCII and EBCDIC? (Hint, 6 bit Univac character set,
started with an F)
I got started in the hardware side while working for Lockheed, building
environmental monitoring instruments (LIDARs, multi-spectral scanners, low
level radiation sample counters)). We needed a cheap data logger with some
intelligence that could run unattended for long periods of time, or in
aircraft. We had tried HP9830s (ever try flying one in a 2 seater
helicopter?), and looked at National IMP-16s and DG Novas, all too big or
expensive. Then one day a guy brought in the now famous issue of Popular
Electronics, with the Altair kit. We got one, put it together in the lab,
and promptly blew up the CPU board. In the early kits there was a tiny
defect, seems all the gold fingers on the CPU card were shorted together
with a hairline plating error on the card edge, almost too small to see.
Know what happens when you put -12 on the +5 line in an 8080? Pieces of it
almost hit the ceiling. From that point on, whenever we first turned on an
S-100 kit, the warning to everyone else was "Flame On" so they could duck.
MITS replaced the board (when 8080 CPUs were still $400 each) and the Altair
worked! We actually used it for one project, but it was quickly retired
when the IMSAI came out. We bought #17 from IMSAI in December 1975.
The IMSAI was very cheap compared to what the other engineering sections who
still used minis (DEC and DG) were doing in their projects. We outfitted
the IMSAI with a floppy, paper tape, and a VDM CRT display, and we used it
to write 8080 code for several years. The board that went into the
instruments was the single board 8080 eval kit Intel was selling at the time
(SDK-80?). Years later I found out some of the data loggers went more than
10 years in the field without repairs. Intel built good stuff even then.
Freshly overconfident from getting an IMSAI to run at work, I bought one
myself in 1977 after trying out my skills on a National SC/MP eval kit
first. It took a lot of work, and some assistance from the E.E.s at work,
but I got the IMSAI running. Virtually all my knowledge of digital
electronics came from wire wrapping proto boards for the S-100. In my
opinion, it was one of the best platforms for learning real-world electronic
design, especially when it's your own money that goes up in smoke when you
don't double-check the voltages first.
I program for a living these days, incredibly dull accounting applications
and tech support. I still have the S-100s, including that original IMSAI
(even have the CPU chip left from the SC/MP board). I don't have too much
opportunity these days to do electronics, but I keep a hand in designing
8051-based controller boards. Chances are you've seen one of the 8051
boards if you ever come to Las Vegas, they are inside some of the big casino
signs on the Strip.
The collection is modest:
my treasured IMSAI, complete with 22 slot board and front panel, lovingly
hand assembled, running CP/M 3 off a 5MB hard drive, Ithaca Z80B, 256KB RAM
(still used for production once in a while, it's not a museum piece yet)
The rest:
an IMSAI VDP, which I work on once in a while
several generic 8086 and 286 based S-100 boxes running Concurrent DOS
an original IBM AT, circa 1985, upgraded first to a 386 with a Jet adapter,
then to a Cyrix 486DR2 (the world's slowest 486, 8Mhz)
a MicroVax II (KA630) in a BA-23 pedestal, with an RD54 and 16MB, VMS 5.3
a Vax 3600 (KA650) in a BA-123 box (upgraded MV II), 24 MB, VMS 6.2
several generic 386 PC clones, recycled as controllers on router tables in a
machine shop for the moment
Yeah; I'm currently studying with two kids (3 and 1). Believe me... it
will be much much easier now rather than when you have other commitments.
Do it sooner rather than later :)
-----Original Message-----
From: Russ Blakeman <rhblake(a)bbtel.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Tuesday, March 03, 1998 6:57 PM
Subject: Re: Demography?
>R. Stricklin (kjaeros) wrote:
>
>> I'm 20 years old and am the sysadmin for Geoworks' (yes, that Geoworks)
>> Seattle design centre. I spent two years at uni but tired of the
>> academic attitude and puerile students so I dropped out to admin full
>> time. I may go back one day, but I can't forsee yet what day it'll be.
>
>With a chance of sounding like an old mother hen since I'm twice as old as
you
>and "been there" - DO go back and don't put it off too long. Anymore they
want
>janitors to have technical degrees in "custodial engineering". Once the
>kiddies get into the picture it's a really SOB to get to where you have the
>time and resources.
Sam Ismail wrote:
> On Sun, 1 Mar 1998, Russ Blakeman wrote:
>
> > Anyone know of a museum/collection site with info on this, or have info
> > on it themselves? I'd like to see what it is before I decide to gut it
> > for the drives or keep ot for my oddities collection.
>
> Do NOT gut this baby. It is truly a classic. I hope Marvin
> (marvin(a)raing.org) pipes up about this because he seems to be the resident
> Vector guru around here, but I haven't seen a post from him in a little
> while.
>
> Add this one to your collection.
>
> Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass
Hey me too on this one
--------------------------------------------------------------^^^^
Anyway I finally powered it up after jumpering the broken power toggle and it works
as far as the monitor powering and giving me video garbage. The hard drive is a
Seagate 5 mb and the floppy is a Tandon 720k belt drive. It appears to have a
printer port as well and only one open connection in the card cage. Although a
little dirty and dusty she's in beautiful shape needing a good repair and
replacement of the antiglare mesh.
If Marvin doesn't raise his ugly head (so to speak) I'll have to grab him by the
trackball and see what he has to say about it.
Add to my collection? I think not as the dining room is no longer a dining room,
it's a computer docking bay.
Thanks a bunch for the info...
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Russ Blakeman
RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144
Phone: (502) 756-1749 / Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991
Email: rhblake(a)bbtel.com or rhblake(a)bigfoot.com
Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/
* Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers*
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Does anyone have any upgrade board for PCs? I said 486, but I mean
any such thing. This is part of a desire to find a way to salvage some
systems. Does anyone have any MCA upgrade boards? There are some PS/2
286 towers, which I would take if I could upgrade them to something
32-bit
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
[tony duell]
:> "lart"?
:Lusr Attidute Readjustment Tool... What you want to use on the idiot
:who's just fed a banana through the card reader :-)
hehehe :> the only irritating thing about you, tony, is that everything
we say we want, you pop up and say you've got ;> we have a feeling that
eventually all obsolete computer equipment in britain will gravitate to
chez duell...
:I always thoguht the Commodore method of keeping the disk turning
:at the same speed and changing the data rate made more sense.
:Certainly seeking would be faster as you wouldn't have to wait for
:the disk speed to change and stabilise.
on the other hand, it makes the electronics more difficult, as suddenly
you have to design a pll that will reliably lock to about 10 different
data rates, rather than just one, not to mention making sure the
controller can handle it. to make it practical to decode in software,
the apple probably got it right - and let's face it, certainly in later
years commodore never really got the hang of the speed disks should run
at... also, it's worth bearing in mind that the mac had a very fine
grain of control over the speed of the disk drive originally, and could
bump it up a notch (out of 400 or so) if it was running a little on the
slow side. because the data decode was in software, that was feasible.
:> it wasn't a cheap design, but it was what the ibm should have
:>been if it *had* to use that particular architecture...
:Having looked at a number of non-PC 8088/8086 machines, I am
:convinced that _all_ of them are superior to the IBM PC...
not hard, given the design principles of the pc. on the other hand,
they're still hamstrung by the basic architecture of the thing.
were there any non-pc-compatible 286 machines produced? the original
apricot xen series springs to mind, but how good was that?
[daybreak]
:> hmm - so how much did you pay for it then...? :>
:\pounds 10.00 including 19" mono monitor, floppy drive and tape
:streamer, but missing the keyboard and mouse. You're right - I did
:buy it.
just call us psychic ;>
[tiger]
:Rumour was that the selling price for the CPU unit (The CPU was in
:the keyboard case - it looks a little like a BBC micro with
:multi-coloured function keys) would have been around \pounds 3000.
:No wonder they never sold any...
no wonder. a case of not only completely missing the market, but also
the point...
-- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling
you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her...
Net-Tamer V 1.08X - Test Drive
That's one of the things with PC's... they're all software-standard, but
hardware versatile. For 486's, there's the Pentium Overdrives that some
boards were equipped with (but Intel cut off the overdrives early), then
there's also about 50 differnet chips that actually plug into the ZIF
Socket, the fastest being the Evergreen one, which is based on a AMD K5 133,
and has equivelent performance to that of a Pentium 102MHz. For the Zeineth
PCs that the government bought in the 80's, the CPU was on a daughterboard,
so that you could upgrade that to a 386, but God help you try to find one of
those.
-----Original Message-----
From: Max Eskin <maxeskin(a)hotmail.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Tuesday, March 03, 1998 2:13 AM
Subject: 486 upgrade boards
>Does anyone have any upgrade board for PCs? I said 486, but I mean
>any such thing. This is part of a desire to find a way to salvage some
>systems. Does anyone have any MCA upgrade boards? There are some PS/2
>286 towers, which I would take if I could upgrade them to something
>32-bit
>
>______________________________________________________
>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Found in a box of stuff rescued (via a friend)..FWIW the box this
thing was in,
was IBM factory labeled... Board, measuring approx 6 in x 3 in. at the
top left is
a centronix female connector. About 3/4 in to the right, is what appears
to be a RCA
type phono jack. The part number on the board is 79F4761.. There appears
to be
two (memory?) sockets on it, one of which is empty, the other has a
label on it, that
reads as follows:
239X .STD
V0.86
92-2-27 23A7
Inscribed directly on the chip is:
-150DC
1506NOT
(copyright symbol) 1988 AMD
Can anybody clue me in on this thing?
AdvTHANKSance,
Will
To: Jim Sciuto, "Gold Recovery Expert"
http://www.tiac.net/users/quiksand/goldtek.htm
I invite you to take the time to discover the wonderful efforts a group
of dedicated individuals around the globe are engaged in to preserve
some of the historically significant vintage computer equipment that you
may be scrapping for its precious metals. In some cases, the machines
you are melting down have more historic value than any monetary value
you may be extracting from their circuits.
I realize this is how you make your living, but I think you will find
the efforts of these computer preservations at least interesting, if not
compelling.
Any assistance you can afford us in preserving the more rare artifacts
of our computer heritage that you come in contact with or possesion of
would be much appreciated. I invite you to visit the Vintage Computer
Festival web page:
http://www.siconic.com/vcf
Sincerely,
Sam Ismail
Vintage Technology Cooperative
http://www.siconic.com/vcf
Greetings list-friends....
Though I mainly Lurk here, with your kind indulgence I would like to
add another fiber to the 'WRU' thread now extant, because it is so
fascinating seeing the "unity-in-diversity" theme alive and well.
I am 46 and currently chief engineer at one of the big LA movie
studios. It's an awful lot of fun with a little stress thrown in
>from time to time, just to keep me awake.
I have two inter-related Main Interests: music and electronics. I
began piano at 6, organ at 12, and in HS and college played also
various things with bows and strings. When I was 11, my father took
me to his work one saturday, and I was allowed *inside* the
glass-enclosed shrine where the newly installed GE 635 lived in all
it's glory. I was utterly hooked. I had to have one, right then, in
my room, mine all mine. It was the *smell* also, the warm
electronics, the smell of the tape, and the sound...
After college (BSEE) and the Draft, I worked at various
music-related tech jobs thru the 70's and early 80's, then did some
years as a systems analyst and data comm products manager for a Big
Phone Company. Got my fill of computer-programming; I'm a hardware
guy. Along the way I filed some patents, wrote a few papers and some
short stories, and recorded hours of often-forgettable music.
Then the movie business happened, and the rest is geography.
Currently I have six PDP-11 systems in various states of being and
about twenty or so micros and related items strewn all over the
house... my living room now looks like a circa-Seventies college
computing center. I also have a Pent-100 machine under W95, an AST
486/33 for fax and voice mail, and a Mac PPC and MAC SE in my home
studio... which brings up my other (sort-of related) collection,
vintage electronic instruments. I have many older keyboards and synth
modules, including a pretty big Moog and a few ARPS, etc. I have a
fantasy of running Music IV (or Csound) under Unix on the PDP 15 with
period DACs providing signals to the Moog.... a living early 70's
music research lab. Maybe the Minc-11.... naw, never mind.
I've held a Ham radio ticket for many years, and just now I'm
about two weeks away from getting a pilot's license, *if* the
examiner and the weather are co-incident and *if* I pass the damn
checkride... oops, off topic. sorry.
I share Tim Shoppa's concern for preservation of recorded media,
and I am very active in the restoration and preservation of the
record of our society before it is gone forever. This is the main
drive for my collection.... also I have, like Sam, many thousands of
books, and among them several dozen computer-related ones, from the
late forties on. It's very true: anyone can get hardware, but the
docs, well, there's another thing entirely.
I have a webpage, which I need badly to revise, but here is a view
of some of the collection: www.lightsound.org. Now I really *must*
get it brought up-to-date.. ;}
Okay: enough bandwidth for one evening. E-mail is welcome and
checked often.
Cheers
John
Well, here's my bio:
I am a 31-year-old banker in Syosset (Long Island), New York. Many of my
waking hours involve lending millions to near-bankrupt companies without a
clue. It's not sexy, but it's a job <g>. As expected, I worked at Radio
Shack from high school through college (I even got a 5-year service pin)
Anyway, I digress. I really began collecting old computers about three
years ago. It all started with the VIC-20 that I got when I was in junior
high school (my all-time favorite; I learned 6502 machine language on that
machine. Snif, snif. Sigh). From there, I added a Fat Mac that I owned in
college. Then, a PET 4032 system (a gift from my former junior high school
computer teacher), an IBM Datamaster (blown F8 ROM :-( Now a useless POS),
two Tandy Model 1's (one 4k, one 16k, with expansion chassis; works fine), a
complete Model 100 system (with DVI and monitor), and an original IBM PC
with expansion chassis. That was it for a long time. Then, I found this
group...
Well, I've loaded up on an Apple ][+, an Apple /// with a ProFile HD,
several more VIC-20's (spares if anyone needs parts), a C64, several other
CBM parts, a Compaq SLT/286 and dock (not really a classic, but free, all
25+ lbs of it), an original Atari 2600 in the box, a complete Apple //gs
system, a Mac SE/30, and a Northstar Horizon with many random boards (this
is my next fix-up project).
I also have some software that I've collected (not all originals,
though): DOS 1.1 through 6.22, Windoze 1.01, 2.0, 3.0, etc., VisiCalc,
Lotus, and others.
Then came my "drive and get it" phase, aka, the too big and heavy to
ship. I have a Sun 3/50 and shoebox (more on this later), a DEC uVax-I in a
BA23 case with several RD52 drives, and a complete PDP-11/34 system. This
was the best - a complete system, just as if the guy ordered it 20 years ago
with all manuals and enough spares to last a lifetime. I still don't have a
complete inventory of the spare parts, but the rack has 2 RK05 drives, the
CPU, and an expansion chassis. I just picked-up several RK05 disk packs with
the original RT-11 distribution on it. It came with several boxes of
documentation, and several binders that clip into a metal holder (like would
hold the OED dictionary).
My major focus from here on (because my wife has *suggested* that I have
enough computers) is fill-in stuff:
* Commodore software/hardware (cartridge slot expander, speech synth,
IEEE card, games)
* Apple game software/hardware (i.e., paddles and joysticks)
* Apple Lisa (not really fill-in, but I can always slip one by...)
* IMSAI 8080 (this one is pre-authorized by the "computer police")
* Copy-II-PC card
* PDP stuff for transferring files (maybe a paper tape reader/punch).
I'm also in the process of
getting an RX02 drive for my system.
* Embedded/SBC stuff (like a KIM-1 or SYM-1)
* Intel iAPX432 processor set
I also am looking for non-classic stuff along the lines of embedded-PC
stuff (x86 PC card on an ISA backplane, for example; for experimentation). I
also have a passing interest in robotics (I'm specing a Mars rover style
autonomous robot), gardening, and golf.
Rich Cini/WUGNET
<nospam_rcini(a)msn.com> (remove nospam_ to use)
ClubWin! Charter Member (6)
MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking
============================================
[tony duell]
:> Looser Attitude Readjustment Tool. LART. Usually a big stick,
:>but can be anything handy that can inflict pain and suffering
:>upon loosers who don't know a calculator from a computer and
:>think Bill Gates is Good.
:Well, my calculator has a homebrew I2C interface on it, which I've
:used to control a robot arm,etc. I've written self-modifying RPL on
:it, and I've programmed it in its native (Saturn) machine code. I'm
:not sure I can tell a calculator from a computer...
erm... doesn't that beg the question - does hewlett-packard actually
know the difference between a calculator and a computer...?
(or do their design engineers just design things they can hack between
meetings? ;> )
-- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling
you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her...
Net-Tamer V 1.08X - Test Drive
I have heard enough on this topic without understanding what it meant!
What is the difference between vector and bitmapped graphics, and who
was first to use each? Why are vector graphics stereotypically used
in mainframes and bitmapped used in cheap weenie "home computers"?
______________________________________________________
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Sam:
> 1 SB180 with SCSI adaptor and 20meg HD(also used frequently).
I think that that is Steve Ciarcia's 64180-based SBC, which ran various
forms of CP/M. It was featured in the Sept and Oct 1985 issues of Byte
(which I just happen to have; I can fax you the article if you want).
I'd love to get one of those...I even saw a message once in comp.os.cpm
that one of the co-authors was trying to work a deal with Steve to unearth
an old stock of those and offer them for sale.
Rich Cini/WUGNET
<nospam_rcini(a)msn.com> (remove nospam_ to use)
ClubWin! Charter Member (6)
MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking
============================================
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 19:29:47 -0800 (PST)
From: Sam Ismail <dastar(a)wco.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Demography?
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980301192615.1620D-100000@shell>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Sun, 1 Mar 1998, Allison J Parent wrote:
> Far as I can tell one of the few active women in legacy(old machines are
> us) computing. For me thse old system were the computer I couldn't afford
> when I was playing with them new.
Well, unless someone else pops up, you're probably the ONLY woman into
this sort of thing. You're like the Grace Hopper of vintage computer
enthusiasts :)
> 1 SB180 with SCSI adaptor and 20meg HD(also used frequently)
BTW, what's this? Someone is going to sell me one and all I know is that
it runs CP/M.
Sam Alternate e-mail:
dastar(a)siconic.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer,
Jackass
Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
whatever happened to going private with stuff like this?! this is more off
topic than anything else.
In a message dated 98-03-02 02:46:52 EST, somebody started flaming:
<< Enrico:
I have many Model 1 computers... as a matter of fact, I sent one to you!
So don't think you just made a great 'caught-me' remark. I do have many.
I don't, however, have a damn 4k Model 1 without the keypad on the
right. That is what you're looking for, isn't it? Oh, I suppose you
changed your mind -- again!?!
Gees, Enrico, you never stop do you? I am being completely honest with
you, what is it that you think I am hiding anyway? Black and white: I
have model 1 computers, many of them. I have 0 Model 1 computers that
you are looking for!! Figure it out!! Not Black and white: Why you are a
complete idiot!?!
Leave me alone until I e-mail you and tell you I have a Model 1
computer, circa 1978, with 4k of memory, and no keypad, ok? Damn,
Enrico, I was even doing you a favor and looking for one for you....
You really know how to spoil someone's day,
CORD >>
I did actually check this. It says 208. This is not awfully
informative, AFAIK, because the voltage fluctuates +/- 5 or so anyway
>Open the side opposite the CE panel, and look down by the 4 twinax
connectors.
>There shoud be a label saying what yours is wired for - Mine wants 204V
AC.
>-------
>
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Today was my first major interaction with the system/34, unfortunately
on 1/2 hour long. Next monday, I can stay there 2-8 PM if I want to...
I made the following discoveries:
a)It's on casters
b)It has a 65MB hard drive
c)It's not all that dusty.
By virtue of a, I moved it to reveal the CE panel, which had all of
the floppies and a little error code booklet tucked inside. This
booklet is fairly useless now that IBM doesn't support the 34, but
it does list all of the parts and their names. There is a thing that
I saw called the DC distribution panel. I was thinking that I might
switch the power supply's outputs with the outputs for a normal PC AT
PSU, of course not powering the drives. The booklet does imply that
the PSU outputs -4, -5, 5,6,8.5,-12,12,-24, and 24 volts. Knowing this
I ought to be able to get a couple of PC psus and run it. Next step:
finding a room that has power to it - this one doesn't...
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Yes, it is. That's the reason for all this trouble, that I don't know
how to get it to run without a 220 volt outlet (it's in a storage room)
Now, my question is a bit dumb, I suppose, but why is it that when
Intel made the 8086 (which I heard was about as powerful as the 34),
IBM made this huge half-ton box only to leave it mostly empty anyway?
>Just curious, isn't the S/34 a 220v box?
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<> The first trap is that this monitor has a live (hot) chassis, or at lea
<> the 115V models do. The video input is opto-isolated so that the TRS-80
<> itself can be grounded/floating. This means that you need to be more
BIG TIME!!!! Take all the care in the world with this one.
FYI the monitor is isolated from the trs80 via opto isolators so there is
no DC or AC connection between the two. The optos are pressed real hard
to run at video (luminance) rates so they can sometime be a cause of porr
video.
<> careful than usual when working inside this unit - mains on all the
<> exposed metalwork is a good way to get killed! In fact, I'd say that yo
<> shouldn't attempt to repair this unit unless (a) you have an isolation
<> transformer and (b) you know why you should use one.
Having worked on these at Tandy I can say first hand that is no lie!
I've been wacked a few time over the years, it hurts...if your lucky!
<I've done some simple work (replacing flybacks, logic boards, etc) on
<VT100's previously - if I do decide to open this thing up, rather than
Vt100s are line isolated and a bit safer save for the hi-volts on the CRT.
Allison
[tony duell]
:> yes. shame about VALDOCS really. it seems to have killed forth's
:> reputation for all time. it was reputedly an integrated package
:>written in forth - unfortunately, it seems, the people who wrote
:I thought it was written in Stoic, which although a threaded
:stack-based language like Forth, was somewhat different in the
:details.
not that different. we have a source listing for stoic on our hard drive
at the moment (you want it? we'll mail it) and the major differences
>from forth were (a) it used a file system with 6 letter names, (b) it
compiled everything, even immediate stuff, into a temporary buffer then
executed the buffer, (c) you pushed textual words using 'xxxx rather
than forth's method of having "WORD" pick up the next word in the input
stream.
:Not forgetting HP's RPL language which is Forth done even better.
:You can push _anything_ onto the stack - integers, reals, strings,
:even programs :-) I think the HP28 is now 10 years old, so we can
:mention it here.
ah, yes... we finally got hold of the dos development suite for this.
it's a lovely language, but it departs somewhat from the simplicity and
directness we like in forth. on the other hand, it's great for its
chosen application, and if you're a lisp fan too... (yes, we are.
symbolics 3600 on offer, anyone...? ;> )
what we'd like to see, though, is a forth effectively incorporating the
concepts in smalltalk (ie everything on the stack is an object, possibly
with a tag bit to differentiate between integers and anything else).
have to start hacking one...
-- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling
you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her...
Net-Tamer V 1.08X - Test Drive
To everyone: Some judicious snipping of quoted email replies would make it
MUCH easier to read, and really is common net-etiquette these days.
As far as want-list;
Me, I'm open to trades - I have a spare Exidy Sorcerer and assorted
oddities.
I'd like some of the early single boards - such as sym, etc.
Andrew
<From: John Lawson <jpl15(a)netcom.com>
<fantasy of running Music IV (or Csound) under Unix on the PDP 15 with
<period DACs providing signals to the Moog.... a living early 70's
<music research lab. Maybe the Minc-11.... naw, never mind.
Forget unix or music from a -15 it was more suited to industrial control.
I did do some serious hacking with music back some using the altair to
drive a string of smal 8085 based boards(one per voice).
<about two weeks away from getting a pilot's license, *if* the
<examiner and the weather are co-incident and *if* I pass the damn
<checkride... oops, off topic. sorry.
Well if you don't pass the check ride the instructor should be shot for
sending you unprepared. I have a license for 20 years and a Cessna150
to enjoy it in.
Docs for systems, board and the like are a resource that is
underestimated. There are so many s100 systems and boards that are
mostly useless without docs as it's impossible to set them up or use
them.
Allison
>
>>
>>
>>
>> ah, if we're going to get on to the "what do i wish for?" list...
>
>Well, I don't recomend killing me to get your hands on my little
>collection... And I rarely sell machines.
>
>> a perq. any perq. please, PLEASE!!!...
>
>Keep looking... There are still some out there. No, my 4 (!) are not
for
>sale...
What is a perq and why is it good?
>>
>> any system based on the 32xxx (a ceres would be nice, but we doubt
>> they're available...)
>
>More practically, there are still a number of Whitechapel MG1's about.
>Repairing one is not hard - the main problem is the NiCd battery used
for
>starting it. A Technical manual does exist...
>
>>
>> an original archimedes, with the original arthur os and the gui in
basic
>
>Hmm... I still have my Arthur programmer's reference manuals, but I
doubt
>I could find a set of the ROMs, alas...
>
>>
>> a dg nova
>
>Again, keep looking. They were popular in embedded control systems at
one
>time. Mine came off an electron microscope....
Speaking of novas, I finished Soul of a New Machine. Great book!
>> a linn rekursiv (wouldn't you? ;> )
>
>Ooooh... Now that's a machine I don't have, and would like!
Is the machine as weird as the name?
>>
>> one of the two machines we know about that ever used a z8000
(olivetti
>> m20 or onyx..?)
>
>What about a Zilog 8000 ? It was/is (there's at least one still
>operational) a Z8000-based unix box. Mine has an SMD disk controller
and
>a QIC tape drive. It's built in slices about 2' square - the bottom
slice
>is empty, the next contains just the RS223 port distribution panel, the
>next contains the drives, and the top slice contains the cardcage.
>There's the CPU card, a memory card (some machines had ECC memory, I
>think), and assorted device controllers.
>
>
>>
>> a perq
>
>Does the fact that you've listed 'perq' about 4 times mean that you
want
>one from each series?
>
>>
>> an original cp/m system or three (hm systems; the minstrel always
>> appealed)
>
>What do you mean by 'original'? If you mean a machine designed to run
>CP/M, then there must still be some RML 380Z's (very solid UK CP/M
>machines used in schools) about. Ditto for DEC rainbows, Amstrads
>(although I don't like those myself), BBC Z80 second processors, Epson
>QX10's (IMHO one of the nicest CP/M machines ever built), etc.
Was CP/M made for any specific machine originally, kind of like
DOS was made for a PC (leaving Seattle Computers aside for a moment)
>MDS800, then good luck in finding one.
>
>>
>> any really weird 70s mini (small honeywell machine, perhaps? tony
duell
>> speaks highly of the philips p850...? maybe an icl thingy...?) - must
be
I believe the system/34 was a Mini. I think that's what those UPS
tractor-trailers are for :)
>of it, although as it was the machine that got me into computer
>collecting, I do have a somewhat biased love of it. Mind you, with 2K
>(max) of memory, 16 CPU registers, a strange instruction set, and a CPU
>based on a hard-wired state machine rather than microcode, it must be
>worth saving.
Isn't microcode hard-wired anyway?
>Philips P800 series machines are not at all common, alas...
>
>> nice to put forth on, though
>>
>> oh, did we mention that if someone would provide us with a perq at
>> reasonable cost and proximity to bradford, we would be quite
delighted
>> and mount a one-person campaign to get him or her canonised?
>
>Which reminds me... I must Canon-ise my PERQ again - that is, repair
the
>Canon laser printer port. The crystal oscillator lost its legs, and
while
>I was trying to repair it, the local cat stepped on the device and the
>quartz crystal plate is now in about 100 pieces... I must try to obtain
a
>29.8MHz xtal.
>
>Just out of curiousity, why aren't you looking for the following
>machines?
>
>DEC PDP8, PDP11, Vax, any other PDP's?
What does PDP mean, exactly? Is it something like the PC standard?
>AMT DAP (Distributed Array Processor)
Which is?
>Anything transputer-based
Which is?
>The Xerox D-machines (somewhat PERQ-like in many ways) - Brian Rosen
was
>involved in the design of both AFAIK. The only problem with these is
that
>low level hardware/software docs seem to be next-to-impossible to
obtain.
>The PERQ has the advantage that there are some _very_ clueful
enthusiasts
>(not me, alas) who will help you with just about any problem.
>
>Torch XXX, quadX, etc
I can just imagine "Sabrina's jungle dungeon - hosted on a Torch XXX"
>Tiger. Now there's a strange machine.. A Z80 + 64K RAM, a 6809 + 8K
RAM,
>RS232, parallel, cassette ports, 1200/75 baud modem, 7220 graphics chip
+
>96K RAM, etc, etc, etc. It was going to be sold as a home computer...
So, how much RAM total?
>
>-tony
>
>
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I have a canon SX320!!
>I think the first 'computer' I programmed seriously was a Canon SX320
>calculator, which was a desktop machine with a full keyboard and 40? col
>printer. I also did Fortran and Algol-W programming at highschool.
On the weekend I picked up a mint Zenith (luggable). Nosing
around the thrift I also found 4 10pack containers of DEC Formula One
5 1/4 RX50 floppies. 1 of which contained programs. As well there
were 2 Decmate II Word Processor manuals (no disks) and a Decmate II
Hardware Documentation manual with 2 disks. Sys. Overview and
Sys.Test Diskette.
The program disks were a 4part AT&T MSDOS v.3.3 rel 1.01
; a clock patch and 2 Test Diag. marked PC 6300 and an HP labelled
disk with Vectra msdos 3.1. $30 (Can.) A real score.
The Zenith is similiar to the Kaypro and Compaq luggables with a
cooler design. Along with the int. monitor it has a double pop-up
A/B drives and 3 ports on the rear as well as an RCA looking jack.
(for an external monitor ?). Best of all it booted with the AT&T
disks. The Disks marked PC6300 did nothing and the Vectra gave me a
no command.com present tho I was able to get a dir. listing which
showed one. Anyone with info on this 'chine ?
I imagine I was just lucky and the DEC disks came in to the
shop separately, but a nagging idea of the Rainbows ability to boot
msdos came to mind. I also finally found a DEC k-b for a long-dormant
Rainbow which has a 5meg Seagate. When I get the 15-pin video cable
I'll be able to check further.
ciao larry
lwalkerN0spaM(a)interlog.com
OK, so this is off topic for the list charter, but I have a
friend with a Telebit V.34 28.8 modem (part number AP-8810SA-001)
which doesn't have a power adapter. Does anyone know (just hoping -
not really expecting) what this thing is looking for in terms of
power, and if it takes a common transformer?
Thanks!
J. Maynard Gelinas
In a message dated 98-02-26 22:08:24 EST, somebody wrote:
<< Geez, where do you guys keep all these computers??? >>
well, with living single, and a 3bedroom house for me and my dawg, it's easy!
=D
david
since everyone else is at it...
the identity we received at birth is available to anyone who asks, but
we adopted the collective name "communa" a few moths back, on realising
that we're multiple. it's raised a few eyebrows since, but that's life.
we're 23, and our first computer was a second-hand zx81 at the age of 9,
followed with reasonable swiftness by a new zx81 and memotech rampack.
the rampack died after a few years of non-use, and by then we had moved
on and up, and weren't much interested in the zx81 any more (we maintain
that attitude; it was a handy springboard, it was nice to have used one,
but it was the first and only eminently *disposable* computer...)
over the years we also acquired:
* a commodore 16, complete with tally roll printer;
* a memotech mtx512;
* a sinclair ql with serial port - we are currently waiting for a friend
at work to throw some more bits our way;
* a trigem xt with 40Mb hard disk, hgc monitor and panasonic kxp1170
printer - faithful workhorse for 5 years;
* an amstrad nc100 that we don't use anywhere near as much as we should;
* an original zx spectrum 48;
* a spectrum +2;
* a 286 motherboard, then a 386sx motherboard, an old case someone left
behind on doing a runner, a digital vga mono monitor and olivetti
card, 4 1Mb simms, and a win95 keyboard, for use as a convenience
system (and for internet surfing);
* an ncr 286 computer that looks like a paving slab and came with ega
colour monitor and lovely keyboard;
* and there may well be a decstation 3100 going at work if we can
arrange / wangle it. (plus a ridiculously heavy 300Mb scsi hard drive
box that feels as if someone forgot to remove the lead casing...)
a preponderance of home computers and odd pcs (with the exception of
this 386, none are particularly standard inside), which we are not very
happy about - hence our published wish list.
for our living, we do things with webs and databases - sometimes in
connection - with a little company based in sleepy gargrave (typical
village - 3 shops, 3 pubs, about 200 houses, pathetic public transport)
and have done for a year, during which time we have seen the depth of
our overdraft *increase*. (hmm...) however, it does mean that now we
have the money to pursue a dream, which is to acquire old and
interesting hardware and write operating systems for them. and therein
lies our interest in classic computers; less for the beasts themselves,
more for the programming challenges and joys that they would present.
hence we'll focus on specific architectures rather than specific
machines. it's also something of a revolt against the trend in the
modern computer market, especially with regard to software.
before that, we studied computer science at bradford university, but
lost interest once we realised that we already knew most of what we were
being told, and didn't particularly want to know the rest. we nearly
failed; we got a degree out of it, just. we'd prefer a job that tallied
better with our interests; on the other hand, there's a novelist here
trying to get out, and we suspect that this would represent our future
career development. (but because of who we are, we don't want to write a
book until we've written the word processor. :> ) and we'd also like to
have more time to ourself and our interests.
oh, and we're devoted to our three cats, firstborn, blackie and calliope
- our babies. they come first in all considerations.
-- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling
you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her...
Net-Tamer V 1.08X - Test Drive
ah, if we're going to get on to the "what do i wish for?" list...
miracle qxl card. (but a friend at work has promised us a sack of ql
pieces, so that shouldn't be a problem)
a perq. any perq. please, PLEASE!!!...
any system based on the 32xxx (a ceres would be nice, but we doubt
they're available...)
an original archimedes, with the original arthur os and the gui in basic
a dg nova
a perq
a novix card for pc, or a metaforth board
a linn rekursiv (wouldn't you? ;> )
one of the two machines we know about that ever used a z8000 (olivetti
m20 or onyx..?)
a perq
an original cp/m system or three (hm systems; the minstrel always
appealed)
any really weird 70s mini (small honeywell machine, perhaps? tony duell
speaks highly of the philips p850...? maybe an icl thingy...?) - must be
nice to put forth on, though
oh, did we mention that if someone would provide us with a perq at
reasonable cost and proximity to bradford, we would be quite delighted
and mount a one-person campaign to get him or her canonised?
-- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling
you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her...
Net-Tamer V 1.08X - Test Drive
I will finally get to the thing Monday to see if I can modify the PSU
for 110 volts. It's probably a bit late to ask, but does anyone
have recommendations for what to look for, as well as what tools I
should take? Is the PSU takeapartable with a screwdriver?
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Let the seller beware when it comes to these recovery shops. Unless
you bother to find an independent assessment of your metals, you
have no idea whether they're basing their price on the actual gold
content or not. They're just finding a price at which you'll surrender
the goods.
- John
Jefferson Computer Museum <http://www.threedee.com/jcm>
<Hmmm, I like this, a wish list thread.
Me too.
A PDP-8E/F/M
A PDP-8A
DOCS for an IMSAI IMP48
Single board computers; Intel sdk85, moto 6800d1 or d3, AIM65, SYM65
Allison
<Does the upgrade significantly hurt the value
<of it? Or are the Cromemeco boards equally
<valuable?
No and sorta. As a pure 8800 it's lower value as it's not complete.
The comemeco are later boards but of some value especially if the manuals
are with them. The backplane upgrade was common(nearly required!).
<I have a pretty good idea of what the Altair
<8800 is worth in it's original configuration
<but I am in the dark when it has been upgraded.
<Does anyone know where I might find an original
<Altair 8800 CPU card and 8 slot motherboard. I
<have a MITS ram card.
The original backplane was 4 slots and real sloppy timing wise due to
poor electrical construction. Faster z80s boards did not work reliably in
them. The 8800 did not have an 8slot (it was two 4s), MITS never offered
one that I know of. Likely the 8 slot was yet another aftermarket item.
Allison
<My first calculator, a Sinclair Cambridge, did that as well. Perhaps
<someone on the list could enlighten us as to whehter this was a common
<weakness of early calculators, and possibly why those who wrote the code
<them allowed it to happen ;-)
many of them were hard logic and not "programmed micros". Logic errors
are the responseable element and it was common for the same(literal)
chip to appear in different branded calculators.
later designs did however use the likes of the TMS1000, a 4bit data
oriented, 8bit instruction word masked rom single chip micro. NEC, MOTO
and a few others had parts in that market as they could be made cheap in
volume with their masked roms.
Allison
I found an Altair 8800 yesterday in a computer
repair shop.
It has been upgraded with a 16 slot motherboard
and the MITS cards were replaced with a
Cromemco CPU and Cromemco 64k ram card.
Does the upgrade significantly hurt the value
of it? Or are the Cromemeco boards equally
valuable?
The owner will sell it for $500 and will throw
in some other non-MITS S-100 cards (Cromemco
TUART, Cromemco Quadart, Godbout 32k ram card,
etc.
I have a pretty good idea of what the Altair
8800 is worth in it's original configuration
but I am in the dark when it has been upgraded.
Does anyone know where I might find an original
Altair 8800 CPU card and 8 slot motherboard. I
have a MITS ram card.
Any help on this would be greatly appreciated.
Bob
______________________________________________________
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Tim Shoppa <shoppa(a)alph02.triumf.ca> wrote:
>And you also have to consider that at least 95% of the Walnut
>Creek CD-ROM was simply assembled from materials lying around
>the net and on various CP/M BBS's. I'm not sure how they
>got permission for the remaining 5% (things such as the Ampro
>Little Board BIOS sources, etc.)
That's the big pitfall of publishing supposedly public domain CDs...
even if you are absolutely careful and secure written permission
>from everyone who claims to have made something on the disc, you
can never be quite sure that someone wasn't telling the truth,
especially if there's any sort of compensation involved. If you
redistribute something that the creator doesn't want distributed,
you could be in for trouble.
And of course it takes a lot of effort to nicely assemble and
categorize the thousands of files on a CD. That makes a good product,
but not all CDs are as good as they could be.
lisard(a)zetnet.co.uk wrote:
>erm, isn't the walnut creek cd-rom predominantly stocked with the same
>stuff that is on oak? which kind of implies that so long as you aren't
>doing it for profit, it's just another kind of distribution.
It can be tough to tell who really owns what, in terms of the "collection
copyright." By means of analogy, a publisher who makes a book of poems
retains the copyright of the way they assemble the poems, and they need
to secure the right to redistribute each poem, but it doesn't mean they
own the poems. It's possible that the people who organized the Oakland
site never considered that they were sitting on a valuable property.
In 1994 my company secured permission to press a CD of the popular
3D model ftp site called "Avalon" without any payment whatsoever.
- John
Jefferson Computer Museum <http://www.threedee.com/jcm>
I might as well jump on while everyone else does...
I'm not too new, not too old to this list, starting in October/November.
I'm 12 years old, and therefore, as far as I can tell, the youngest person
in this list. (Although, I could, of course be wrong) I'm the sond of an
American diplomat, and have lived in Bahrain for nearly 3 1/2 years. This
July, I'm moving to Guyana, after going back to Witicha, Kansas and DC.
As the age implies, I probably haven't been into computers too long. My
main computer actually is my first, it WAS a Compaq Presario CDS 633, with a
486SX 33MHz processor, 4MB of RAM (immeidately upgraded to 12MB), and, after
upgrading, now it's a 486DX/2 66, 28MB RAM, 2.1GB HDD, but still with the
same video, sound and controller cards as before. It's role is getting
slowly replaced with my new Cyrix 200 that I built in December. (The 31st,
just before Midnight).
Back in 1994, when I got my first computer, I was always interested in
programming. I started with QBasic, and still use BASIC to do most work.
Just today I've made my first (partially useable) C++ program.
Let's see: I'm unemployed (except always bored as a 7th grade student),
am not married (as you could guess, living in the Mid East's getting to me),
have no children and do not live in New York. But, in my spare time I work
with my friend Zack Boyd (we met on the Internet) on the web page, The
Review Guide (at http://members.theglobe.com/ReviewGuide/index.html) We
hope to be moving soon to a .com address, just after we get reviews up, etc.
It's basically for fun, to try new products, and, for me, mostly to get
credibility for college, etc. (yes, I'm already possed with it, and would
like info that anyone has on this subject, right now, I'll do almost
anything....)
I started collecting with a PC XT, and still have it, it's still waiting
for a controller and HDD. ;-)
Lets see... I'm starting an online community, and am going to be asking
in the next few days for people interested. I'm really unsatified with the
learning going on in school, (you'll understand with the online community
post) , and love learning, like classical music up through lots of different
stuff that I don't know what category it goes under... use Windows, am
getting familiar with Linux... and, that's it.
Bye,
Tim D. Hotze
Bill Yakowenko <yakowenk(a)cs.unc.edu> wrote:
>I've been dorking around with this idea for a while now, and
>this seems a good lead-in. The basic problem was that the
>classiccmp web page seems to be permanently dead.
Very cool idea and implementation, although something inside me likes
finding machines through chaos and luck, as opposed to having an
well-organized team. :-)
- John
Jefferson Computer Museum <http://www.threedee.com/jcm>
I saw this on comp.sys.apple2. Can anyone help? I don't think he is on the
list.
-- Kirk
-----Original Message-----
From: James <jmcp(a)pacbell.net>
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2
Date: Sunday, March 01, 1998 2:10 PM
Subject: help: Apple][<==> PDP-8
>Hi.
>I would like to replace my near dead teletype (paper tape works, but the
>CR does not work properly) with either my //c or //e.
>I figure I could just use a serial port, but the PDP-8 (compatible) uses
>a teletype connector, and I don't know how to create a proper cable.
>Also, how would I get the PDP-8 programs from the paper tape reader on
>the teletype to the Apple ][?
>Has any one done something like this before? I have heard that people
>have done this with a PC. The PDP-8 news group appears dead, and I have
>not been able to find any web resources on this subject.
>
>You may ask "Why?"
>Well, I'm not really sure, but I sure do love watching all those pretty
>LED's flickering on the PDP-8 front panel! I also have loads of paper
>tape, and I want to know what it all does.
>
>Thanks for your help,
>James
>jmcp(a)pacbell.net
>
>
MAINFRAME HEWLETT PACKARD Model:64100A
THE 64100A IS THE FUNDAMENTAL UNIT OF THE 64000 DEVELOPMENT SYSTEM, CONSISTS
OF CONSOLE WITH INTEGRAL 12" CRT, FULL ASCII KEYBOARD, RS-232 INTERFACE AND
SPACE FOR 10 OPTION CARDS. UNIT HAS 64941A OPTION CARD CONTROLLING 2 X 5"
FLOPPY DRIVES
This is available for CAN$45
Is this rare/desirable? I'm thinking of passing it up anyway, but just
curious.
A
>That particular unit (a CASIO) had a problem dividing by 0 - it
>tried to!! The display patiently counted from 0 up to... well I never saw
>it stop before the batteries gave out. I guess thats what started my prime
>interest in computers - the quirky and unusual.
>
My first calculator, a Sinclair Cambridge, did that as well. Perhaps
someone on the list could enlighten us as to whehter this was a common
weakness of early calculators, and possibly why those who wrote the code for
them allowed it to happen ;-)
My condensed bio:
I am 40 years old and live near Shrewsbury (UK), on the border between
England and Wales. I have had an interest in computers since 1985 when I
worked for the local council as a Meat Inspector. The Environmental Health
Department got their first computer and I wrote some applications for it and
then decided that I wanted to be a programmer for the rest of my life. I
have been to University 1 day per week for the last 5 years and gained a BSc
in Computer Studies last September. I am currently working (bored and
underpaid ;-() as a MIS programmer for a college of further education
producing reports in Access. Apart from collecting computers I enjoy
motorcycling and rock climbing.
My collection consists of:
1 MicroVAX II with a TK50, 4 RA81s and an RA82
3 Sun 386i, I working and 2 with dead/dying NVRAMs
1 Tulip PC Compact 2 - NEC V30, 40Mb hard disk
1 Sinclair Spectrum 48k
1 Sinclair Spectrum +2
1 Amstrad CPC464 with colour monitor
(and off topic)
1 486DX2 PC running linux 24/7 except when I have to reluctantly reboot into
Win95
1 Toshiba T3100SX portable with dead LCD display
Wish list:
The one I would really like is an ICL Quattro - The first machine I
programmed and administered. It was an 8086 based machine with 10Mb hard
drive and 1Mb RAM running CCP/M86 and capable of supporting 4 terminals each
of which could support 4 virtual terminals giving a theoretical total of 16
users. Not bad for an 8086 :-). The later 'go faster' version had a 286
processor.
Regards
Pete
>I'm kind of curious as to the demography of the Classic Computer
>Mailing List. What are people's backgrounds, what are they doing now,
>and so forth.
Hi,
I'm Hans Olminkhof, mid 40's, a mechanical engineer living in Sydney
Australia. Married, 3 kids. I don't have much to do with computers for a
living, building the occasional Lotus Notes database being about it.
I was originally exposed to computers as an undergraduate and remember
writing my first program on punchcards in Forgo, a students version of
Fortran2. It ran on an IBM 1620 or something at the University of Western
Australia where we could see in the next room a PDP6 in all it's blue glory.
Never got any closer to that though. The next year we were limited to remote
teletypes linked to the new computer, a Cyber72 which I never saw.
I had no contact with computers again until about 1986 when I finally found
something useful to do on them, Finite Element Analysis. (engineer stuff).
We bought a 286 for home about 1991 and spent $500 a year later get the 80Mb
hard drive in it fixed. Not long afterwards I figured out how easy it was to
do all that myself.
One day in about 1993, I said to someone in a shop what a museum piece the
IBM AT I was looking at was. Somehow the conversation got around to me never
having even seen the original IBM PC. Then came a trip to the back room to
see racks and racks of them. I walked away with one for $20, got to fiddling
with it and a few weeks later owned another dozen or so. They would have
been on their way to the tip otherwise.
I got very interested in the idea of keeping them alive and in the whole
idea of how quickly this technology was progressing and disappearing.
Anyway, now I've got a whole heap of old computers, maybe half of them
working, lots of old software to go with them, manuals etc. I spend a few
hours a weekend looking around for more.
The list includes:
IBM PC's, XT's, AT's, Portable PC's, Convertibles, Displaywriters
Compaq Portable's, Portable Plus's, Portable II's
Kaypro II's, and IV's
Various Apple II's and early Mac's
Atari 400's and an 800
Various Apricots
A heap of Sirius's (Victor 9000 in USA)
Decmate III's
Osborne 1's and Executives
DOT's
An original PET
A CBM3032 and the wreck of an 8032
A Compupro box
A Cromenco C10
Various BBC's
HP 85's, 71B's and a 110
An MAI 4105
Various Microbees
An NEC APC and a number of APC III's
NEC 8201, 8401, Tandy Model 100
Olivetti M21
Panasonic 840
Sharp PC 5000, 2 X 7000's, MZ811
Sinclair ZX81 and Spectrum's
Epson HX20
Canon A200's
probably some I forgot, and some uniquely Australian machines,
a "Porchester Executive", a "PortaPak" and a Dick Smith "Mini Scamp" (a 1977
kit)
I've also got some PDP11 stuff coming when I organise a truck!
>> Far as I can tell one of the few active women in legacy(old machines are
>> us) computing. For me thse old system were the computer I couldn't
afford
>> when I was playing with them new.
>
>Well, unless someone else pops up, you're probably the ONLY woman into
>this sort of thing. You're like the Grace Hopper of vintage computer
>enthusiasts :)
What's a woman?
Can you program it? Does it have a nice chassis?
Is there somewhere to rest your beer while you're working on it?
:)
A
I forgot to mention one last thing I picked up today.
The CE-125 Printer and Microcassette Interface for a Sharp Pocket Computer
PC-1250. This basically adds a 20 column printer and micro-cassette to
the Sharp Pocket Computer. Basically makes the equivalent of a small
Epson HX-20 (almost). The Sharp would slide into this unit and you could
then carry the whole contraption around in a carrying case which came with
the interface. Very cool. Now all I need to find is a Sharp PC-1250. In
the box with all accessories and manuals, $15.
Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass
Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
<> Correction it's the BIG blue box. Mine is circa '76 or earlier and was
<> used by the DEC VT100(and others) development team.
<
<Hmm, the one I'm thinking of may be a later vintage. But if BIG means
<a cube about 3' on a side, then it may be the same.
The MDS800 was about 13" tall, 28" deep and 19" wide box and the 8" disk
box was another 8" or so tall. Nice multibus system. Most of the MDS
systems were nominal rack width. My favorite was the series 225 with the
integrated crt and seperate keyboard, did a lot of development time on
those. I wouldn't mind finding one.
<You've caught me with my hardware pants down. To my software eyes, they
<look like VME cards, but I know Intel doesn't do much VME stuff. They'r
<386-16 boards from circa 1987 (just slipped under the 10-year barrier).
Two bus edge connectors 12"wx6.5"? If so it's Multibus.
Myself I'd find a 80/10 or 80/20 or BLC80/204 for multibus more appealing
as I can use them.
Allison
<> 1 SB180 with SCSI adaptor and 20meg HD(also used frequently)
<
<BTW, what's this? Someone is going to sell me one and all I know is tha
<it runs CP/M.
SB180 Micromint (in CT), circa 1985 and featured in both BYTE September
and october 1985 (byte back issues is still available).
The SB180 is a 64180 (z180) with 32k Eprom, 256k of dram and floppy
controller for 8/5.35/3.5" drives on a really small card. Very low power
and runs CPM. There was a piggyback board that added a 300baud modem and
NCR 5380 scsi chip, mine only has the SCSI. Most were clocked at a cpu
speed of 6mhz but 9mhz was possible with a fast chip. Good little board.
I have mine stuffed into a old PS2/25 case using the 3.5" floppies (780k)
and a Xybec scsi controller that's twice the size of the sb180 card!
Allison
<I might as well get the ball rolling with an introduction of sorts.
Oh why not.
I'm older at 45 so, that means I have hands on time with new PDP-8Is and
KA/I/L-10s. I was in EEschool when the 8008 hit and I was already working
(to pay for school) with it soon after it was available at work. I've
done design with everything from DC to 1ghz RF analog and even a fair
amount of digital from transistors to asics. Likely one of the few that's
designed with tubes, transistors and ICs. Former companies I've worked
for Automated processes(maglink SMPTE timecodes), Tandy(trs80),
NEC(chips), Hazeltine(terminals), DEC(printing systems) and a few more
inbetween.
Far as I can tell one of the few active women in legacy(old machines are
us) computing. For me thse old system were the computer I couldn't afford
when I was playing with them new.
My collections includes:
4 operational s100 machines
Vector MX (vector box computime boards)
Northstar* horizon (actively used has HD)
Explorer-85
S-S100 (my design z80 supersystem) (active and archive system, big HD)
3 Vt180s (in use)
1 kaypro (in use)
1 Epson PX-8 with 120k wedge (my laptop)
1 amproLB+ with 45mb scsi drive (used often)
1 SB180 with SCSI adaptor and 20meg HD(also used frequently)
1 DECMATE-III runs OS/278
VAXEN: All operational ant netted via decnet/eithernet
1 MV-II ba23
1 MV-II ba123
3 VS2000 2 vms and one ultrix
1 Vaxstation3100-m76 VMS
PDP-11 systems: all operatonal
1 ba11n 11/23b (rx50)
1 ba11n 11/73 (rx33, rd52, RX02, RL02, TK50)
2 BA11va 11/23 (shoebox system with tu58 tape)
1 PDT11/130
1 Pro350 with venix
Misc SBCs: operational
IMSAI IMP-48 (8035 based SBC)
COSMAC ELF (base design)
national SC/MP Demo board
National TBX tinybasic chip on a board
Technico superstarter sytem (TI9900)
Misc 8085 boards used for random uses.
NEC TK-80 8080 system
DEC ADVICE microvax-II chip based sbc/ice
Intersil 6960 demo kit (pdp-8 cmos chip (6100) to make a minimal system)
Misc machines:
INTEL MDS-800 multibus 8080
TI99/4a with PEB, disk, mem exp, voice, disk software and 20+ carts.
Altair (retired)
PCs:
Leading Edge mod D (XT class) running dos
DTC turboXT slated for minix (running dos)
386dx/33 running linux
486dx2/50 running dos (this system)
My wish list includes:
more SBCs (mostly because they are fun and small)
PDP-8/e/f/m series (always wanted one since '69)
any pdp-10 ( I can wish!)
Intersil/harris 6100/6120 based systems
Allison
<From: Doug Yowza <yowza(a)yowza.com>
<> Misc machines:
<> INTEL MDS-800 multibus 8080
<
<Is this a blue box? I had a chance to get one once....
Correction it's the BIG blue box. Mine is circa '76 or earlier and was
used by the DEC VT100(and others) development team.
<That reminds me. I have two piSBC 386/116's that I have no plans to do
<anything with (I don't have a card cage for them). They are available a
<trading fodder for just about anything smaller than a breadbox.
What are they? Most of the SBCs I'm interested in are of the mid '70s
through mid 80s designs.
Allison
In a message dated 98-03-01 17:25:56 EST, you write:
<< It was thus said that the Great Seth J. Morabito once stated:
>
> I'm kind of curious as to the demography of the Classic Computer
> Mailing List. What are people's backgrounds, what are they doing now,
> and so forth. >>
My name's david, and i'm based in north carolina. I do level 2 technical
support for IBM's consumer line. I only started really collecting computers
about 3 years ago and am up to ~75 or so. It all started way back in 1984 in
high skool when i discovered the apple //e. I flunked computer science, but it
eventually worked out pretty well. I never did get my own computer until 1987
when i bought a second hand apple ][+ with no disk drive for $200. ( i still
have it) I've got quite a varied collection which includes apple // series,
68k compact macs, IBM, a microvax, xycom business cpm machine, osi, atari, TI,
heathkit,kaypro, tandy, and some others i cannot think of right now including
spare parts for the apples and xt era pc machines. most machines will be on a
website soon once i can get my mind back into it. my primary interest is early
pc era stuff from big blue, naturally, such as ps2 models, pcrt, and pcjr
types. i also have an extensive collection of nibble and compute! magazines
>from the 80s as well. It would be nice to find some old working minicomputer,
but for right now, it's just 80s micros, since that's what I grew up with.
david
Ok, it sounded stupid...I'm basically asking where there's a list of
these type message areas, such as the one we're reading right now. I
know about the Heath area and the Classic Computer area by word of
mouth, but is there a place to get an overall listing of all that a
person could subcribe to? Newsgroups are easy as they show with the
newsgroup reader in your browser.
Appreciate the time in responding to this or any of my messages.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Russ Blakeman
RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144
Phone: (502) 756-1749 / Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991
Email: rhblake(a)bbtel.com or rhblake(a)bigfoot.com
Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/
* Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers*
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Marty,
I have one of the double-density models and can provide you with
copies of docs and some software. I have a bunch of application
software but it's in quad-density format for the Advantage and I
haven't bothered to transfer any of it to the Horizon.
The Horizon is a terrific, solid machine. The first serial port
is for the console and the second port is available for a printer,
etc. Both are easily reconfigured via the USER.ASM code (at least
my Lifeboat CP/M version). Two parallel ports are also available
on the motherboard.
I'm not sure if the Horizon bus is fully IEEE-696 compliant. Tim or
Allison?
BTW, California Digital (www.cadigital.com) sells hard-sectored
disks for around $10/box. They also have 8" SSDD floppies (ran
out of double-sided, unfortunately).
Regards,
Jason Brady jrbrady(a)mindspring.com Seattle, WA
I have a new, in the box, AST-5251/11 setup that allows a PC to
communicate with an IBM 34/36/38 mainframe (?). It includes a thick
manual, 5.25" and 8" floppies, twinaxial to adapter card cable w/tee,
and the adapter card for an ISA slot. Still with the original overbox
that shows all the features of this beauty.
The box states that the card is an 8 bit, DMA selectable for PC/XT/AT,
selectable interupt channel, on board high speed 8X305 processor,
5251-11/5291 or 5291-1 display terminal emulation, host addressable 5256
printer support on the PC's printer, concurrent host and PC sessions
with hot key assist, bidirectional file transfers, and more. This is the
enhanced version.
I have no use for this and many of you are into connection to mainframes
and minis, so make me an offer, whether it be cash or trade for PC
compatible items.
Email a reply direct to me, please.
Russ Blakeman
rhblake(a)bbtel.com
> Looser Attitude Readjustment Tool. LART. Usually a big stick, but
can be
>anything handy that can inflict pain and suffering upon loosers who
don't
>know a calculator from a computer and think Bill Gates is Good.
I would say the optimal is a PC clone case with Windows 95 cds glued
on. Anyway, what IS the difference between a computer and a calculator
(yeowch!)? I know the one between a Cray and TI-10 (4-function calc.),
but what about a 68k based TI-92 graphics, which a friend of mine is now
making a multitasking OS for? It has a full keyboard (half the area).
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
from: sethm(a)loomcom.com
<I'd really love to find a MicroPDP 11/23+, or possibly even just
<a regular PDP 11/23, with disks and an OS to play with. I do
<miss playing with octal!
They are common enough keep looking. Typically they will have RD52->54
disks (30-159mb), rx50 floppy and plenty of serial io. Boards are common
enough and generally free to cheap. if your real lucky you may find a
copy of RT-11 on the disk or with the machine. Docs are always handy.
<for nostalgia reasons having to do with school: I'd love to find a
<DECStation 5000/200 with Ultrix 4.3a. Those were are main campus UNIX
You might find a DECstation 3100 with ultix easier. Or a VS2000 or
Microvax-II with ultrix.
<Actually, I think that's about it for the "realistic" wishlist at the
<moment. Of course, I'd adore having a PDP8, 8/E, 8/I, or 8/M to play
<with, but space and power restrictions kind of prevent it at the moment.
<Ah, perhaps later.
Find a DECmate-II or III it's mostly PDP-8 and real small.
Allison
I just obtained a machine that has the same all-in-one look as a TRS-80
model 3 or 4 but the drives are located in an external box and has the
name Vector 3 on the front and the label on back states that it's made
by Vector Graphics, Inc. The external box has a 5.25" floppy and a 5.25"
hard drive in it and it has a monitor and keyboard in the main unit. I
haven't even powered it up yet so I don't even know if it works.
Anyone know of a museum/collection site with info on this, or have info
on it themselves? I'd like to see what it is before I decide to gut it
for the drives or keep ot for my oddities collection.
Any information of this machine is greatly appreciated.
Russ Blakeman
Harned, KY USA
I debated if I shouldn't just send this directly to you, seth, but
I decided that knowing where old computer providers and users are is
good for the whole list.
I am a high school student in Boston, MA (If anyone is familiar with
the Boston Latin School, that's it). I had a C-64, but fried it two
years ago. I now have a Mac Portable, Apple //c, 386 Clone, P*****m
clone, which is what I usually use.
I am interested in classic computers because they are cheap and easy
to understand. They usually have less bugs, and, most importantly,
they were made in an era when money wasn't all that counted as far
as computers went (everything else was long past that point).
I am also working on System/34 in my school's supply room. I will start
monday. C'est tout.
>Club, formed to prevent people from trashing all the PDP11's that were
>How about other folks? What kind of backgrounds and current
experiences
>do you all have? I'd love to hear about it.
>
>-Seth Morabito
>
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
I acquired a Dragon 64 base unit today. Can anyone post the pinouts for
the power and video connectors?
--
Hans B. Pufal : <mailto:hansp@digiweb.com>
Comprehensive Computer Catalogue : <http://www.digiweb.com/~hansp/ccc/>
_-_-__-___--_-____-_--_-_-____--_---_-_---_--__--_--_--____---_--_--__--_
It finally accepted the DH and started using it! I know have RSTS/E v8.0
running and 16 terminal ports that work! The only bad part is, I have
ABSOLUTELY *NO* idea what made it start working... I'd given up for the
night and started cleaning up my mess, when I got a dumb idea and hung the
console teleprinter off the 3rd port of the DH. Pushed enter, and got crap.
Screwed with baudrates and other etc. and got logged in. Went upstairs
and stole a VT100 off their router (They won't notice... I'll put it back...)
and tested it out. All the ports are at funny baudrates and such, but they
all work! Now, I have to think of a way to get this online...
-------
Seen on Usenet. If you can adopt these fine machines, contact the
original author directly. Thanks!
-=-=- <snip> -=-=-
From: "Erie Patsellis" <eriep(a)map.com>
Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec
Subject: free to good home- 2 MVII (western mass)
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 08:37:25 -0500
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due to change in living situation, I have 2 MVII's available, just email
me
to pick them up.
erie
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bruce Lane, SysOp,
The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fido 1:343/272)
kyrrin2 {at} wiz<ards> d[o]t n=e=t
"...No matter how hard we may wish otherwise, our science can only describe
an object, event, or living creature, in our own human terms. It cannot possibly
define any of them!..."
[doug on qx10]
:It sounds like a nice little CP/M box with bank-switched memory
:that can also run VALDOCS (whatever that is).
yes. shame about VALDOCS really. it seems to have killed forth's
reputation for all time. it was reputedly an integrated package written
in forth - unfortunately, it seems, the people who wrote it were less
than competent. for some reason it has an awful reputation, as slow,
buggy, etc.
never used or seen it - even in magazine reviews (not for the want of
trying either) - hence the vagueness. please, someone furnish further
details...? did epson ever release the source?
(hmm. other things written in forth were more successful - vp-planner
springs to mind, since it was so successful lotus killed it...)
-- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling
you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her...
Net-Tamer V 1.08X - Test Drive
I've spotted one, owner has original boxes, packaging.
And the technical manuals - condition excellent.
Is this a computer worth salvaging? I'd likely have to pay around US$65
He also has a AT&T 3B1 in great shape, but doesn't know what its worth.
Any comments on these two appreciated.
Cheers
A
How much?
>
>Check out http://home1.gte.net/okay/for_sale.htm
>This equipment has been in my closet since I got my first PC in '87
>I wan't to sell as a package.
>Gary
>
>
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
NEC APC
that reminds me. we always fancied an nec apc... but what we wanted even
more than that was a samurai s16. anyone else remember these? also 8"
disks, 8088 running at around 4MHz, 128k basic ram, design that looked
very apc-ish and quite lisa-ish also (there were a number of machines
with that styling. immediately we can think of the lisa, nec apc, ncr
decision mate/v, samurai s16. any more...?)
the last we heard of the s16, some firm was flogging it off for 400 quid
a throw or thereabouts, in response to the amstrad el cheapo pc.
-- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling
you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her...
Net-Tamer V 1.08X - Test Drive
[tony duell]
:Didn't they? There's at least one PC-jr in the UK in operational
:condition, although without the original PSU, so I can't comment
:whether there was ever an IBM 240V transformer unit for them. Mind
:you, the technical manual only lists a 115V model.
some of them must have leaked across the atlantic, even in some official
capacity, but they were certainly never sold here. they were axed in the
us before they could be introduced here. given how long britain had to
wait for the ibm pc (and the resultant popularity of the sirius) it
isn't really all that surprising...
we also seem to remember personal computer world reviewing a model that
they described as "the pcjr done right", which was called something like
the jx and was only available in japan, and used 3.5" disks years before
anything else did. are we remembering correctly...?
-- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling
you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her...
Net-Tamer V 1.08X - Test Drive
At 09:37 PM 2/26/98, you wrote:
>Awww! And all I've been able to get this week is a HP-97, HP-9815 with
>various interfaces and a HP 9871 printer and a Commodore Pet 2083 with
>MODEM, dual disk drive, printer and tractor feed attachment with all the
>docs and software.
Geez, where do you guys keep all these computers??? My wife would kill me,
and my daughter of 19 months would tear them up. This is one reason why I
collect GRiD laptops. They are the last word in durability, and are small
compared to desktop systems and others.
(BTW, All I did this week was get Red Hat 5.0 setup and running on both my
home and work machines, not that I'm trying to go off topic or anything...)
That's the dog I programmed. SNES.
A
-----Original Message-----
From: kroma <kroma(a)worldnet.att.net>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Monday, March 02, 1998 1:02 AM
Subject: Re: 16 bit 6502?! No, you don't want it... trust me!
>
>
>>Having spent 2 years programming the 65816, believe me you DON'T want to
>>play with a 16 bit 6502!!!! The memories, the memories.... There was a
>>processor dog if ever I saw one. Interpretation of opcodes was dependant
>on
>>the mode the processor was set to, and so if you branched to a section of
>>code when you were in the wrong mode, results were... screwy.
>>
><snip>
>
>(Getting off topic a bit)
>I believe Nintendo did pretty good with it in their second generation
>system, the "Super Nintendo."
>
> -- Kirk
>
>
>
>Having spent 2 years programming the 65816, believe me you DON'T want to
>play with a 16 bit 6502!!!! The memories, the memories.... There was a
>processor dog if ever I saw one. Interpretation of opcodes was dependant
on
>the mode the processor was set to, and so if you branched to a section of
>code when you were in the wrong mode, results were... screwy.
>
<snip>
(Getting off topic a bit)
I believe Nintendo did pretty good with it in their second generation
system, the "Super Nintendo."
-- Kirk
VALDOCS is an early example of a "works" type program for CP/M although its
most noteable module was the spreadsheet. My wife liked it much better than
Lotus 123. I have both a QX-10 and a QX-16. They are both quality boxes.
The QX-16 is especially fun because one can boot it in either CP/M or MSDOS.
I would encourage anyone to rescue examples of these fine machines. If I
didn't already have one, I would be tripping all over myself to obtain a
fully documented QX-10 for $65.00. In fact, if you decide to pass, let me
know who to contact; I wouldn't mind having a spare.
Cliff Gregory
cgregory(a)lrbcg.com
-----Original Message-----
From: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
To: Cgregory <Cgregory>
Date: Sunday, March 01, 1998 2:56 AM
Subject: Re: Epson QX-10 / AT&T 3B1
>On Sun, 1 Mar 1998, Andrew Davie wrote:
>
>> I've spotted one, owner has original boxes, packaging.
>> And the technical manuals - condition excellent.
>> Is this a computer worth salvaging? I'd likely have to pay around US$65
>
>A quick "power search" of Deja News will tell you that this machine has
>sold recently in a range from $0 to $100 (my cursory look yielded 2 for
>free, 2 at $50, and one at $100).
>
>It sounds like a nice little CP/M box with bank-switched memory that can
>also run VALDOCS (whatever that is).
>
>-- Doug
>
>
My turn. :)
I'm a collector in Adelaide, South Australia - not the only one here, but
one of a very small number. I'm 28, and until very recently I was a
student, doin a Masters in Philosophy. (In case anyone cares, my thesis
concerns the ethical status of hypothetical artificial minds - basically
I'm looking at the criteria for ethical value employed with people and in
animal ethics, and working out whether that criteria can be met by an
artificial intelligence). As far as occupations go, I have a few (being
a typical long-term student) - I'm a welder, do some web page design,
some internet consultancy, Perl coding, teach ethics and critical
thinking to nurses, actually get paid to MOO, work occasionally as a
human guinea pig in medical tests and I am a professional Teddy Bear
artist. :) I've worked in a few other areas, but they'e the most
recent/current ones. Anything to pay for more computers.
I started collecting late last year, although I had wanted to for ages.
My first computer that I used was my uncle's Microbee - an Australian Z80
kit computer - but I rapidly moved to the TRS-80 Model 1 and Vic-20.
Last year I was offered a Lisa 2/5 to save it from being scrapped, so I
figured it was about time I went and picked up all the old computers I
wanted when I was younger. Mostly I only get Micros, but I do branch out
- it seems that I'm getting my first supercomputer soon. :)
My current collection consists of (from memory - I'll probably miss a
few):
Amstrad CPC6128 (x2) and Notepad NC100
Apple ][+, ][e enhanced, ][e platinum, ][c (x6), ][gs, ///+, Lisa 2/5,
Mac 512k
Atari VCS, 400, 800, 800xl (x2), Portfolio
Commodore VIC-20 (x3), 64c (x2), SX-64, 128, PC-10
DEC Microvax II
Dick Smith Electronics Wizard, Dick Smith System 80 (x2), VZ-300
Exidy Sorcerer
Honeywell Microsystem 6 (I'm still hunting for any information about this
one).
IBM PC/XT
Mattel Intelvision
Memotech MTX-500
Microbee 64k
Sharp MZ-721
Surwave Amigo
Tandy TRS-80 Model 4P, CoCo 1, CoCo 2
Wang 286
And today an OSI Challenger 4P arrived. :) Keen.
My bigest wishes at the moment are for a NeXT Cube, and Apple ][c+ and a
Spectravideo 318/328.
Adam.
A seach of the Web yields numerous hits on "NEC APC", many of which are
>from cable companies. You should have no difficulty in finding cables for
the computer.
I can tell you that the APC indeed belongs in your museum! If there ever
was a machine which stood out as before its time, that is the NEC APC. The
monitor was high resolution color (I hope you got the color version) at
about 640x480 if I recall. It had a dedicated graphics chip which could do
line drawing, curves, etc. It had about a 102 key keyboard. It had a 1MB
floppy (8", of course). It had a sound chip and integrated speaker capable
of reasonable music. Does yours have a hard drive? The early hard drives
were 10MB externals, by the way, so you no doubt have some kind of external
connector for that as well.
Many of these advanced features later (or much later) were added to the PC.
IBM eventually came out with EGA, which nearly matched the APC. With the
AT they nearly matched the APC's keyboard (though they still neglected
putting an "ENTER" key on the keypad), and surpassed the APC's floppy
capacity. It took many years though before the PC added sound cards with
better capability than the APC, or graphic accelerators with dedicated
graphics chips.
Too bad that your APC didn't come with documentation. The APC shipped with
the best documentation I have ever seen, including internal schematics, a
decription of all internal logical features, and a even a full listing of
the BIOS on a disk. The documentation allowed me to write for example an
interrupt driven print routine to replace the timing based BIOS print
routine. Using my print driver the APC was capable of fully driving a
300LPM printer, or capable of driving a 100cps printer while simultaneously
doing a program edit. Try that on an early PC!
I hope you got some software. The original disk included a program "BACH",
which demonstrated its musical prowess. Later machines shipped with a
simple program I gave to NEC called "PLAY" which allowed the machine to
play music coded into a text file which listed the notes to be played and
the duration of each note. Usage was "PLAY filename". Banjo music worked
particularly well. There was also an impressive program that demonstated
its color graphics potential.
Carl
Reply directly to the author (zzyzx97(a)earthlink.net). Buyer beware.
Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass
Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
---------- Forwarded message ----------
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From: zzyzx97(a)earthlink.net (zzyzx)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2.marketplace
Subject: FS: APPLE LISA
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 07:11:36 GMT
this one is missing the power supply so I don't know if it works. It
also has some corrosion on one of the boards, but maybe it can be
cleaned....it looks like it can. The plastic has yellowed from being
in the sun, but there are no cracks. The keyboard is nice. The mouse
is missing the roller ball and the cap that keeps it in place.
Sold as-is, please send me your offers.
ZZyzx
"Me, indecisive? I'm not so sure about that."
-- end of forwarded message --
--
Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass
Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
While I am making this program in Visual Basic 5, this problem is
way over 10 years old, and the program will be old computer-related.
How do I alphabetically sort an array?
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Closer... I installed the DH11 along with that ACT thing in the 44.
Now HARDWR LIST says I have 2 DHes, and a DM. But hanging a terminal
off the ACT thing yields absolutely-fscking-NOTHING. I don't have the origional
DH11 distribution panel. But I have the wires that are supposed to attach
to it... Can I modify a DZ11 distrib panel to use in it's place?
Do I need to modify CSRs or something? Oh, and I already tried all possible
combinations of cabling 'tween the ACT board and it's panel.
On a sidenote: Anyone know how to break into an IBM System/34?
-------
I just killed 2 hours playing wump under V7 Unix on my 11/83.
Just so everyone knows, it runs, but I ave to boot RT-11 and say
boot/foreign dl0: to start it...
Now, once SCO makes a source liense available, I'm set! It's single user for now...
Z
-------
On 1998-02-28 classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu said to lisard(a)zetnet.co.uk
:apple //gs and a //c+ to complete my apple ][ collection,
mmm, a //gs... yes please here also. the thought of a 16-bit 6502 to
play with... :> (yep, even though we have a special affection for the
much maligned 286.)
as for a //c+ - were they the ones with the 3.5" disk instead of the
5.25"? we saw them in the states, one of the times we went over there
(arizona - little hack shop in tucson that had all kinds of old hardware
for frankly, silly prices; lots of pcjrs, which we'd also like one of,
since they never made it over here) and thought they were cute, but we
don't believe they ever crossed the atlantic. was the disk drive the
only difference, or were there others & what were they if so?
-- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling
you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her...
Net-Tamer V 1.08X - Test Drive
previous subject : Can anyone identify this item ? (BASF HD?)
>
> On Mon, 23 Feb 1998, Lynn & Mike wrote:
>
> > BASF model 6106, part #54670
> >
> > Looks like a HD, connected to a floppy with a
> > ribbon cable, which then goes to the motherbd.
> > Found in what appears to be a homebrew TRS80-type
> > puter with LNW expansion board.
> >
So this morning I walked past the Beast & noticed that
what I had thought was a solid panel had an inner part
that was open, hinged at the top, the little black raised
rectangle at the bottom had gotten pushed & the door had
popped open, & I pulled a 5 1/4" disk out of it.......
(duh)
---mikey
Hi, Tony.
You're up late too :-) Seems we have quite a lot in common :-)
> I don't know if I have a spare one, but I can trivially copy the EPROM
> from the one in my Acorn System - I know where that is.
That would be great. What size EPROM shall I send you? Can you see if you
can find the Flex disk one day, as well?
> I am looking for some of the Acorn user manuals/schematics from that
> period - I think I need the 6502 CPU schematic, and the 80 column VDU
> schematics/manual. It wouldn't be hard to reverse engineer them, though.
I'll photocopy any of those I've got for you. Mail me a list.
> Oh, and I have some kind of user I/O card in one of my Atoms that looks
> as though it belongs in a System.
It's easy to fit such cards to my Atom, since it's missing the bottom half of
the case :-)
> I know I have the 6809 manual, the Acorn DOS manual (including the disk
> controller schematics), the Econet manual (System + Atom econet info), etc.
Was the Acorn DOS for the Atom or 6502-based System? I assume the 6809 ran
some variant of Flex?
> I have a PromPro8X which does most 27xx from the 2716 onwards, and also
> the bipolar and PAL modules for it. The latter only does the MMI Pals,
> though. Then I have a homebrew (Elektor) GAL programmer, an Intel UPP
> (2708's and 2716's), an Intel MCS8i (1702's), a Softy 1 (2708's again), a
> strange thing which does upto the 2732 (including the 2708 and the 3-rail
> 2716) based on an SCMP - and the 8-way copier that goes with it, etc.
Hmmm... I still have the Softy-1 schematics, and I'm sure that uses an SC/MP.
> One day I'll buy a modern universal programmer, but not yet...
I had a Softy-1 and I wish I still did, since not many programmers do the
3-rail devices these days. Now I have a little box that sits on the 1MHz bus
(it was meant for a BBC B but I have it on my Archimedes 440 now) which does
2716 - 27128, and I use a little adaptor for 27256/27512. The Department has
two S3's and an S4, which I'm occasionally allowed to borrow, since they do up
to 27400x.
I came across a pair of 1702's in a pile of junk a few weeks ago. they're
getting rare, now.
I also have all the bits to build the Elektor GAL programmer (Manfred
Nosswitz's design). First I'm going to redo the PCB layout, as I intend to
incorporate the daughter board (for the updated version) on the same PCB, and
possibly use a different DAC (the original one is a rarity, and expensive). I
have the disk for the s/ware as well, but I wish I could get the source -- it
grieves me to have to run it on a PC instead of a real computer.
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Dept. of Computer Science
University of York
On Feb 28, 19:10, Tony Duell wrote:
> > The first machine I owned was a Sorcerer; I still have one (not the same
> > one, sadly) and I'd love to get the WP Pac and the DevPac (or copy of the
> > code) to replace those I sold nearly two decades ago.
>
> Again, I'd really have to hunt for it, but I think I have the word
> processor ROMs somewhere....
I'll send you some 2716's :-)
> I know I have (and I know where it is) the technical manual for the
> sorcerer and the S100 expansion box if you need any info.
I may have sold the original machine, but I wasn't daft enough to let the tech
manuals (as opposed to user guides) go with it. :-) In fact, I have both
versions of the tech manual, plus the software manual, and the S100 manual.
About two years ago, I used the Sorcerer for some serious development work --
debugging the code for an embedded Z80 -- and I updated the monitor ROMs.
Gosh, was there ever a lot of redundant junk in there! It must have been
cut-and-pasted out of something else, I reckon.
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Dept. of Computer Science
University of York
Hi, Tony.
Thanks for the response. I can't do much about it over the next two weeks,
because I'm 12 days from dissertation hand in (with, naturally, four weeks work
to do), but I'm certainly interested.
> Well, I have one (or maybe 2) 6809 CPU boards from Acorn...
>
> Do you insist on an 'original' EPROM, or would a copy in a new 27xx be
> OK? I have an EPROM programmer, you see, and I'm pretty sure Acorn
> wouldn't mind after all these years, especially not for restoring a machine.
>
> Also, do you need schematics/ROM source for the 6809 board? I have those
> as well, I think.
>
> It would take me _months_ to find it, but I may have a Flex boot disk for
> the 6809 Acorn machine.
I'd love a 6809 board. I have the User Manual (and some others from similar
era) and the Eurocard schematics (as you may remember). I don't think I have
the ROM source, so that would be nice. I do have a rather nice Eurocard rack
(empty, cost me a fiver, and that was only because it had a nice PSU). I'd
like to build a floppy add-on for the 6809 (I have the schematics for Acorn's
one, and I think I even have the parts), so the Flex boot disk would be a
goodie.
I don't care if any of the firmware/software is original or an "off-site
backup". Since I worked for Acorn, I can assure you they wouldn't care about
copying such old stuff (unless it was ridiculously blatant for-profit misuse).
I copy ROMs myself, all the time -- there's nothing worse than finding it's the
ROM/PROM/PAL that's died in some old board, so I like to make copies of
anything I get, for security. Yes, I know some manufacturers dislike that, but
I've had two bad experiences trying to track down replacements. I have a 27xxx
programmer of my own, but I wish I could persuade the Department to let me keep
the MicroPross programmer (the one that knows how to program every TTL PROM,
almost every 27xx, 27xx, 28xx EPROM, and umpteen PALs). It may be ten years
old, but I've not seen anything else with a quarter of the performance.
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Dept. of Computer Science
University of York
On Feb 28, 22:47, lisard(a)zetnet.co.uk wrote:
> hmm. did the acorn 32016 workstation ever emerge, or did the arch
> effectively replace that concept?
Yes, they first appeared a the Acorn Cambridge Workstation (ACW) which was
basically a BBC B-plus board inside a wierd monitor-type case, with a
Microvitec 14" colour monitor, a custom PSU, a 5.25" 80-track floppy, a 20MB
winchester, a 32016 with 4MB of RAM, and a LOT of metalwork. They didn't make
many; I had one for a while (I worked for Acorn) but passed it on to a dealer
eventually (idiot!). I've since seen two or three others.
There were some other similar-looking machines in the range. For example, the
ABC -- Acorn Business Computer, a Z80 instead of the 32016; and one with a
80186 and DR-DOS. Both were axed very quickly. I've still got some of the
bumf for those...
There was also a Second Processor version in a small box, as an add-on to a BBC
Micro. That came in two versions, one had 512K of memory (IIRC) and the other
had 4MB (same as the ACW). They ran the same firmware/software as the ACW,
including PANOS, a sort of cross between Unix and Flex, with hints of UCSD.
The Second Processor version remained in production for several years,
eventually being available as an add-in for the Master 128 which replaced the
BBC Micro (this version was called the Master Sientific, but it was just the
same item). I've still got the glossies for those, too...
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Dept. of Computer Science
University of York
On 1998-02-27 classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu said to lisard(a)zetnet.co.uk
:> ah, if we're going to get on to the "what do i wish for?" list...
:Well, I don't recomend killing me to get your hands on my little
:collection... And I rarely sell machines.
never dream of it (unless of course, you were to flip and unload your
entire collection into the nearest municipal dump. *then*, you'd be
targeted... but that isn't going to happen ;> ;> )
:> any system based on the 32xxx (a ceres would be nice, but we doubt
:> they're available...)
:More practically, there are still a number of Whitechapel MG1's
:about. Repairing one is not hard - the main problem is the NiCd
:battery used for starting it. A Technical manual does exist...
hmm. did the acorn 32016 workstation ever emerge, or did the arch
effectively replace that concept?
:> a linn rekursiv (wouldn't you? ;> )
:Ooooh... Now that's a machine I don't have, and would like!
very rare though. linn only ever used them in-house, and god knows if
they are still in use.
:What about a Zilog 8000 ? It was/is (there's at least one still
:operational) a Z8000-based unix box. Mine has an SMD disk
didn't know about it. it'd be nice to find one, though. the processor
is more important to us than the box it come in. (except that we would
really love an olivetti, just because they're so ugly they wrap around
into cuteness ;> )
oh, add a sirius one to the list; we forgot it.
:> a perq
:Does the fact that you've listed 'perq' about 4 times mean that you
:want one from each series?
no, it means we want one about 4 times as much as we want anything else.
:> an original cp/m system or three (hm systems; the minstrel always
:> appealed)
:What do you mean by 'original'? If you mean a machine designed to
:run CP/M, then there must still be some RML 380Z's (very solid UK
:CP/M machines used in schools) about. Ditto for DEC rainbows,
:Amstrads (although I don't like those myself), BBC Z80 second
:processors, Epson QX10's (IMHO one of the nicest CP/M machines ever
:built), etc.
designed as a cp/m box is about the closest, but what we really meant
was the other definition of original - the one that's a couple of steps
either side of weird.
:Just out of curiousity, why aren't you looking for the following
:machines?
:DEC PDP8, PDP11, Vax, any other PDP's?
we must have deleted the line we were going to put in that said "any pdp
that isn't 8 or 11". not an 8, because we want to write a simulator for
that first; not an 11, because - well, it just strikes us that
everyone's got an 11...
:AMT DAP (Distributed Array Processor)
how could we program it effectively? we wouldn't refuse one if it came
along, but it isn't something for which we'd actively go looking.
:Anything transputer-based
what was/is there? did the ATW ever happen?
:The Xerox D-machines (somewhat PERQ-like in many ways)
rarity, didn't think these ever escaped from xerox. obviously if we were
offered a dolphin or (mmmmm) a dorado we'd jump at it, but why break
your heart because you can't get something that it's impossible to get?
:Torch XXX, quadX, etc
on the "refuse but not actively chase" list.
:Tiger. Now there's a strange machine.. A Z80 + 64K RAM, a 6809 + 8K
:RAM, RS232, parallel, cassette ports, 1200/75 baud modem, 7220
:graphics chip + 96K RAM, etc, etc, etc. It was going to be sold as
:a home computer...
didn't know of its existence - more information please...?
-- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling
you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her...
Net-Tamer V 1.08X - Test Drive
[kip crosby]
:>> a linn rekursiv (wouldn't you? ;> )
:Okay. Now, one person mentioning this is one thing, but Tony coming
:back and knowing what it IS (even though it's Tony) is too much for
:me. Given the name Linn and the funny spelling, I keep thinking
:this is something like a turntable, but if so, why mention it here?
:What is it?
it's in the "great microprocessors" list, although it was a single-board
computer rather than an mpu. exact details slip our memory at the
moment, but the history is that the chairman of linn (yes, the company
who make the turntables) wanted a computer system to replace the ageing
systems already automating his production line. being something of a
techie, he analysed the available systems, but none of them did what he
wanted; so basically, they designed their own.
what they came up with was the machine that the intel 432 should have
been - the architecture of it was completely object-oriented, even down
to the handle:offset-based addressing. a lot of oo mechanisms were done
in hardware, there as no concept of linear address space, and the
machine ran under the steam of its own language, lingo (used in at least
one academic book on oo - we read it during our degree course - and
afawk not related to the inferno project, although it's possible...).
there was a byte article on it somewhere too (dick pountain).
sorry for the vagueness. we'd recommend looking at the great cpus list
for better detail.
-- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling
you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her...
Net-Tamer V 1.08X - Test Drive
>mmm, a //gs... yes please here also. the thought of a 16-bit 6502 to
>play with... :> (yep, even though we have a special affection for the
>much maligned 286.)
Having spent 2 years programming the 65816, believe me you DON'T want to
play with a 16 bit 6502!!!! The memories, the memories.... There was a
processor dog if ever I saw one. Interpretation of opcodes was dependant on
the mode the processor was set to, and so if you branched to a section of
code when you were in the wrong mode, results were... screwy.
All sorts of wierd and wonderful things when you switched modes; for
example switching from 16 bit accumulator to 8 bit cleared the high byte,
but switching the index registers the same.... didn't.
It was a very painful time in my life :)
A
On 1998-02-28 classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu said to lisard(a)zetnet.co.uk
:Eh, heh.
:So how do I get a modulus in Apple basic? The answer is not 'MOD'
:or '%'.
try A - INT(A/B) * B. certainly on our collection of homies the MOD
concept just didn't exist, so you had to cheat. why? well, some of those
basics didn't use integer math, and there's not much call for a MOD
function in floating point.
on the other hand, you could get yourself a real language like forth...
;> ;>
-- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling
you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her...
Net-Tamer V 1.08X - Test Drive
::Torch XXX, quadX, etc
:on the "refuse but not actively chase" list.
hmm.
please, insert a "don't" in the obvious place...
-- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling
you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her...
Net-Tamer V 1.08X - Test Drive
[tony duell]
:But there's very few similarities between (say) the PDP8,
:the PDP10 and the PDP11.
having read up on these, we'd beg to differ here. it seems to us that
all the pdps followed a very definite architectural pattern, with the
exception of the pdp11 which struck us as a major departure (the dg nova
has more in common with the early pdps than the pdp11, to our mind). ok,
so they weren't anything like binary compatible (well, between families
- there was the 5,8,12; the 1; the 4,7,9; the 6,10; and then the nova /
eclipse. all were basically accumulator-plus-memory architectures, it
seems, even the 6 and 10; all had simple, regular, but very powerful
instruction sets with minimal formatting and all instructions in one
word (if you view the 6 word size as 18 bits and call it a double word
machine :> ) - we can discern a very distinct family resemblance on the
way up.
the pdp11 marked a major change, from a 1-address to a 2-address
architecture. we aren't sure it was a good thing...
anyway, the pdp8 is much more similar to the 10 than either is to the 11.
-- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling
you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her...
Net-Tamer V 1.08X - Test Drive
I might as well add my list:
apple //gs and a //c+ to complete my apple ][ collection,
tandy 102 disk drive
a replacement floppy drive for my mac IIcx
apple lisa
david
On 1998-02-27 classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu said to lisard(a)zetnet.co.uk
:Here, take my 10 year old copy of Minix. BTW, is anybody up to
:speed on the current state of Minix? I have an itch to run *ix on
:a 128K 8086 box, and it doesn't look like ELKS is ready for prime
:time.
minix is onto version 2 now; it's going the way of all unices by the
looks of things. (kernel cpu detection, 32-bit mode, ram preferences
listed in the megabytes region..) if you want to run it on a 128k
system, best stick with that 10 year old copy. or rewrite uzi to run.
btw... does anybody have a copy of the 16-bit coherent that they'd like
to pass on? any version, the older the better.
-- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling
you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her...
Net-Tamer V 1.08X - Test Drive
[andrew]
:To everyone: Some judicious snipping of quoted email replies would
:make it MUCH easier to read, and really is common net-etiquette
agreed, but there's the balance between snipping enough to compress it
significantly, and leaving enough in so that those without threaded
newsreaders (and on mailing lists) will be able to make sense of it.
-- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling
you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her...
Net-Tamer V 1.08X - Test Drive
I agree wholeheartedly with all you say with one exception. I have a
Pentium 75 overclocked to 100, 16MB ram. It runs Word 95 just fine,
and ran it fine when it had 8MB. Visual Basic and IE4 (I don't use
it regulary, Opera at www.operasoftware.com is much better: 1MB
download!)
work fine too. I can only imagine how Linux would run. But to put
this in a classical context, I agree that old computers are still
useful, but I so wish that they had better displays :)
>Here's an interesting article from Byte magazine:
>
>http://www.byte.com/art/9802/sec5/art1.htm
>
>It talks about how computers are becoming obsolete the day you buy them
>due to all the crazy new technologies being released into the market.
My
>observation is that anyone who chases technology and is always
upgrading
>to the latest and greatest is always going to have an "obsolete"
computer.
>The situation is not as bad as the article makes it out to be, not that
>the article is actually saying the speed of new technology
introductions
>is a problem. But if people could be satisfied with what they have on
>their desk, this issue of obsolescense would not be an issue at all.
>
>In 1995 I bought a Pentium-90 system which I clocked up to 100Mhz. It
>came with Windows 3.1 but I quickly upgraded to Win95. It originally
had
>16MB RAM (which I've since upgraded to 32M) and a 1GB HD. It has a
5.25"
>and 3.5" floppy and a CD-ROM drive. I'll soon be adding another 540MB
HD
>I have lying around spare, and then a 1.7GB SCSI HD as soon as I find a
>SCSI cable. It's slow by today's standard, but the damn thing works.
I
>use an old version of Microsoft Works (3.0) for my word processing and
>spread sheeting; some people haven't even heard of Works! They only
know
>Word. But Works loads instantly, whereas Word takes it seems forever
to
>load which is why I don't use it. Plus its bloated and drags my system
>down.
>
>Which brings me to my point. The computers we collect are still so
damn
>useful! And this is not a new argument, but even though these old
>machines don't have SVGA and EDO RAM and Ultra-SCSI and other
new-fangled
>fanciness, they still work! They can still process words, and crunch
>numbers and hold information. And best of all, they play games MUCH
more
>fun than the current cache of cathartic creations; DOOM was novel when
I
>first played it, but every other incantation after it (DOOM II, QUAKE,
>DUKE NUKEM, ETC) is the same game with a different "scenario" and
>graphics, and that damn bobbing up and down makes me sick anyway!
>
>Give me Choplifter, Rescue Raiders or Dino Eggs any day!
>
>If you read the article carefully it gives a glimpse of the types of
>machines that may be collectible in ten years or so. The article
proposes
>the dawn of the age of the "disposable" computer. This is totally
>ridiculous. I cannot even relate to that mode of thinking. But on the
>positive side, it means disgustingly cheap (and probably FREE)
computers
>10, 5, even 1(!) year(s) from now. More cheap PCs for us to run Linux
on!
>(Imagine having your own DLA [Distributed Linux Array] consisting of 16
or
>more 300Mhz Pentium II PC, alls for just a song! You could break
>government encryption with something like that :)
>
>People these days with their 333Mhz Pentiums with 128MB RAM and 4GB
>harddrives should shut the hell up and be happy.
>
>Long live "obsolete" computers.
>
>Sam Alternate e-mail:
dastar(a)siconic.com
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer,
Jackass
>
> Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
> See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
>
>
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
This is an open note to all readers in this list...
Sorry about the gruf comments regarding the message on the PS/2 boards I
have for sale, it was intended to be a sarcastic remark and to the
person that wrote it, not open on the list. As for the moderator of this
area I wish to apologize for monopolizing on the messages of stuff for
sale. I have a bunch to clear out and should really stay with the topic
of the older stuff I might have.
If anyone is interested in this older stuff I have please email an
inquiry. I'm getting choked with things I've saved from the landfill so
that collectors and hobbyists can enjoy them and I don't get them for
free so please don't expect to get them free either. I'm making a few
cents on this stuff and don't plan on getting rich on it and try to set
a fair price on these things to help other collectors out. My
"business" (however corporate or formal it may appear) is a one man part
time thing to clear a few bucks to upgrade my equipment and eventually
become full time.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Russ Blakeman
RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144
Phone: (502) 756-1749 / Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991
Email: rhblake(a)bbtel.com or rhblake(a)bigfoot.com
Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/
* Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers*
--------------------------------------------------------------------
While we're making want lists, I'm interested in the following:
Apple II
Apple IIc+
Mac 128k
Mac Portable
interesting Apple/Mac stuff
anything Lisa related
TRS-80 Model 100 stuff
I have for trade:
2 white Commodore 64's w/power supply
1 beige Commodore 64 in original box w/manual & floppy drive
1 Commodore Vic 20 w/cartridges
1 CoCo 1 w/original kb
1 CoCo 1 w/modified kb
1 Apple IIe
1 AppleColor 12" RGB monitor (for IIgs)
1 Laser 128 Apple II compatible
Tom Owad
55SX boards are available for $7.00 each in the wholesale mags.
bye!
----------
> From: Russ Blakeman <rhblake(a)bbtel.com>
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
> Subject: PS/2 55SX motherboards
> Date: Saturday, February 28, 1998 12:06 PM
>
> Have a bunch of PS/2 model 55SX motherboards in the "Reply" boxes in
> great condition for sale or trade. Will sell separately for $25 each or
> will work a better price for multiples. I'll also trade for equal value
> of cdroms, sound cards, parity SIMMs in 30 or 72 pin for other machines
> I'm working on. Of course shipping is extra but these are light.
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> Russ Blakeman
> RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144
> Phone: (502) 756-1749 / Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991
> Email: rhblake(a)bbtel.com or rhblake(a)bigfoot.com
> Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/
>
> * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers*
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
I found a XEROX 820 in a trift store today. Can anyone tell me what it is?
It has a base unit with a built in monitor. It has four ports on it. One
connects to a daul 5 1/4" disks drives in an external box. Another connects
to a separate keyboard. The other two are for a serial port and printer port.
Joe
:Re: where to find them. You guys should be down here in Florida.
:I find so many that I have to pick and choose. I left behind 4
:AT&T 3B2s, a NeXt, an AT&T 6300, 2 HP Appollos and 2 HP 9000/300s
:yesterday. All of that was at a GSA auction at KSC. I did get a
:COMPLETE Commodeore Pet set and a Vax Station 3100 for Zane.
ok, so are there any jobs going in florida for cocky ex-pat limeys with
a neat line in web development and a passion for tiny programs...? :>
we'll have to start digging around at the computer auctions in this
country - anyone recommend any firms worth talking to?
-- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling
you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her...
Net-Tamer V 1.08X - Test Drive
My copy does not list any credits except for Walnut Creek.
Walnut Creek CDROM
Suite 260
1547 Palos Verdes Mall
Walnut Creek, CA. 94596
(510) 674-0783
info(a)cdrom.com
Bob
----------
From: John Foust[SMTP:jfoust@threedee.com]
Sent: Friday, February 27, 1998 9:40 AM
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
Subject: Re: Walnut Creek CP/M CDROM Discontinued
Walnut is a CD publisher. Unless they assembled the disc themselves,
then someone else assembled the data and may own the (collection
copyright) rights to reproduction of new CDs. Of course, they may
be looking for a new publisher, or may try to publish it themselves.
Walnut probably dropped it for lack of sales. They like to see at
least 1,000 copies sold a month. If you own a copy of the old CD,
check the credits and I'm sure you can track down the creator.
Or ask Walnut Creek. They might tell you.
It's more cost-effective and less risky these days to do short-run
CDs on CD-R. Still, all-told you can get 1,000 "real" CDs for
$800-$1,500, depending on which options you want.
- John
Jefferson Computer Museum <http://www.threedee.com/jcm>
> To everyone: Some judicious snipping of quoted email replies would make it
> MUCH easier to read, and really is common net-etiquette these days.
Indeed so. I was amazed at how full my mail spool got today.
> Me, I'm open to trades - I have a spare Exidy Sorcerer and assorted
> oddities.
The first machine I owned was a Sorcerer; I still have one (not the same one,
sadly) and I'd love to get the WP Pac and the DevPac (or copy of the code) to
replace those I sold nearly two decades ago.
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Dept. of Computer Science
University of York
On Feb 27, 23:15, Tony Duell wrote:
> > an original archimedes, with the original arthur os and the gui in basic
>
> Hmm... I still have my Arthur programmer's reference manuals, but I doubt
> I could find a set of the ROMs, alas...
Well, I'm pretty sure I have a spare set of Arthur ROMs; I *should* have two
sets of Arthur ROMs plus one set of Arthur EPROMs, from Archimedes A310 Serial
No. 27-AKB10-1000002. Which is still running, but now with RISC OS 2.00, and
a few extras like a hard disk, extra RAM, and a network connection...
If I do have spares, I might be persuaded to exchange them for some 6809
firmware for an Acorn System board.
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Dept. of Computer Science
University of York
<The UCSD p system used a nonstandard disk format technique, the floppy
<was formatted in "blocks" and you booted the systeem off the a drive.
<It wasn't just a language, but an entire operating system/environment.
<I still have a copy of it around here somewhere from a class I took in
<the early 80's.
This was largely true for the z80based and PDP-11 based versions as well.
I still have the P-system for horizon single density.
The language addressed "units" as devices. The standard ones:
unit volume
--------------
1 console:
2 systerm:
3 graphic:
4 <volume name> system disk
5 <volume name> alternate disk
6 printer
8 REMOTE: system peripherals
9-12 <VOLUME NAME> ADDITIONAL DRIVES
Now if the code for the system interface didn't go beyond 2 floppy
devices your cooked as that was a p-system hard coded thing.
Allison
> > Mattel Aquarius with Mini-expander and two game controllers in excellent
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> These mini expanders are like mondo-rare. I don't think I've ever
> actually seen one.
While I'm thinking about it, does anyone know where I can get any
blank 3" disks (for a Mattel Aquarius QD drive)?
=========================================
Doug Coward dcoward(a)pressstart.com
Senior Software Engineer
Press Start Inc.
Sunnyvale,CA
Curator
Museum of Personal Computing Machinery
http://www.best.com/~dcoward/museum
=========================================
I won't be left out either. I don't really want anything uncommon, and,
even though I would like to be able to get minis, I move frequently and
don't know about space, etc. until I get there. Anyay, here's my wish list:
Apple ][ Stuff
Cards, systems, I'll take it.
Comodore stuff
Don't have any, but have heard only good stuff.
What most would call "worthless PC junk"
OK, I'm a PC user. They're pretty nice, if you get down to it. I'll take
it.
Classic (non classic) Mac stuff
I'm a PC user, but one that can change. ;-) Anyway, start at (near) the
bottom, work you way to the top.
And: A SMALL (less than 100MB would be fine!) IDE HDD, as I really need to
get that computer back!!! (From my school, pretty nice AMD DX 40, 16MB RAM,
and no HDD.)
Ciao,
Tim D. Hotze
Is the HP48 10 years old yet?
A guy at work has a HP-48SX 128K memory card he would like to get rid
of. Is this worth anything? The maker seems to be Corvallis.
And, in the serendipity department, I lucked in to a TI59 with the PC100C
printer at work. Nobody knew what to do with it, and they couldn't get it
to work. "Well, since you are gonna throw it away, let me just take it off
your hands...".
Which brings up the question, are the old TI's hard to find? Anyone collect
them? I have my old 55, 55II, both of which died after a few years. This
59 still works, which makes me think it wasn't used much. I don't know,
just rambling.
Kelly
KFergason(a)aol.com
Have a copy of PrintMaster Gold Publishing Suite 3 for sale. Includes
original manual and cdrom. Great condition, has tons of grpahics,
clipart, examples and includes extra fonts and graphics on disk. This
program does everything including TALK! Cards, banners, leterhead,
business cards, faxes, etc. Requires 486 or higher processor and Windows
3.1x or 95.
Originally over $50 will take $25 shipped in the lower 48 states.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Russ Blakeman
RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144
Phone: (502) 756-1749 / Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991
Email: rhblake(a)bbtel.com or rhblake(a)bigfoot.com
Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/
* Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers*
--------------------------------------------------------------------