- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by JRichardson＠softwright.co.uk

Hi, I was just wondering on the rarity of DEC's PDPx machines - I gather that '11s are still pretty common (relatively!), but what about earlier machines in the line? Also - what did PDP stand for? (I don't expect that "Portable" came into it ;*) Sorry for the dumb question - I grew up with classic 8-bit micros and 32-bit Unix machines - shame I missed out on some of the big old boxes, they sound like fun (if a bit impractical from a storage point of view!! :) cheers Jules

27 years, 11 months

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Unusual find

by fauradon＠pclink.com

Hi, I just found a book Titled Odyssey Pepsi to Apple by John Sculley. It is the advance copy from uncorrected manuscript. How often do anyone of you run into that kind of print? Here is what it says on the cover: This is an advance copy from uncorrected manuscript. The regular edition will be hardcover. Reviewers are reminded that changes may be made in this manuscript copy before books are printed. If any material from the book is to be quoted in a review, the quotation should be checked against the final bound book. A final chapter, The Second Renaissance, is not included in this reading copy. It will appear in the printed book. Harper & Row, Publishers, New York. Francois ------------------------------------------------------------- Visit the Sanctuary at: http://www.pclink.com/fauradon

27 years, 11 months

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Backwater areas Was: Re: Cross listing Ebay items

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 06:37 PM 6/16/98 +0100, you wrote: >> Say a real goodie shows up, like a perfect DEC Straight-8 or an unbuilt >> Altair kit. Assume the price is good, like $250 for either. Assume that >> you have the time and a working car, plus a loved one that will not scream >> too much. Assume that the current owner can not ship the thing. How many >> miles would you go? Well, hereabouts, I go 35 miles each way to and from work, and mine is not an exceptionally long commute. (I know folks who do ~70 miles each way in traffic.) (Heck, my sister does 60-70 miles each way just for an hour or two.) My problem is not so much distance as it is time. I'd gladly do a week-end trip to, say, Los Angeles (~500 miles), for most anything, if I didn't have to spend the time a) working, b) with my dad, c) with my girlfriend or d) sleeping (ha!). Mostly, though, I send my aforementioned sister to get things for me (she drove from SF to San Diego, back to Disneyland, and back to SF in about 30 hours -- with about 8 hours at Disneyland and 8 or so in San Diego. 8^) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 11 months

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back on topic (was: Windows CE: Future classic (OT, in a way...))

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 09:39 PM 6/15/98 +0300, you wrote: > As for the Sega, Windows CE's OK for what I want it for: Simple eMail. >No graphics, no attachments. I don't want Windows CE freezing up my game If all you want is simple e-mail, no graphics, no attachments, why spend $500+ on a wince machine? Get yerself a 8088/286/386 laptop from ebay and use a shell account. Or, if you need ppp connectivity, use one of the DOS-based ones running around. Btw, everybody, if you're thinking of putting "(OT)" in your subject, DON'T SEND IT TO ClassicCmp! Those of us that care about new tech are on mailing lists/newsgroups related to what we're interested in; the rest don't care and don't want to see it. There are appropriate forums for questions on Linux, Win95, Wince, Pentiums, etc. This ain't them! --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 11 months

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FW: DECStation 5000/200's available

by kyrrin＠jps.net

They're coming out of the woodwork today. Contact this fellow directly if you're interested. Attachment follows. -=-=- <snip> -=-=- On 16 Jun 1998 15:23:24 GMT, in comp.unix.ultrix you wrote: >>From: jorgnsn(a)qucis.queensu.ca (John Jorgensen) >>Newsgroups: comp.unix.ultrix >>Subject: was someone looking for a DECstation 5000/200? >>Date: 16 Jun 1998 15:23:24 GMT >>Organization: Computing & Information Science, Queen's University >>Lines: 15 >>Message-ID: <6m62lc$d56$1(a)knot.queensu.ca> >>NNTP-Posting-Host: quidnunc.qucis.queensu.ca >>Path: blushng.jps.net!news.eli.net!news.sisna.com!news-kc-17.sprintlink.net!news-east.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!kone!news.ccs.queensu.ca!jorgnsn >> >>I seem to remember a message posted a few days ago by someone who was >>looking for a DECstation 5000/200. We're de-commissioning a student lab >>full of DECstations, but I wasn't sure of the model numbers. Now I've >>confirmed that there are five 5000/200s among the workstations that are being >>retired, but the original article has been expired. >> >>So if there is somebody out there who is looking for DECstation 5000/200s, >>drop me a line. >> >> >> >>-- >> >>John Jorgensen jorgnsn(a)qucis.queensu.ca (613) 545 6784 >>System Administrator, Dept. of Computing Science, Queen's University -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272) http://table.jps.net/~kyrrin -- also kyrrin [A-t] Jps {D=o=t} Net Spam is bad. Spam is theft of service. Spam wastes resources. Don't spam, period. I am a WASHINGTON STATE resident. Spam charged $500.00 per incident per Chapter 19 RCW.

27 years, 11 months

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FW: Value of DECStation 5000's?

by kyrrin＠jps.net

Looks like another opportunity to get some decent DEC hardware. Please contact this fellow directly if interested. Attachment follows. -=-=- <snip> -=-=- On Mon, 15 Jun 1998 13:40:53, in comp.sys.dec you wrote: >>From: gcg1(a)psu.edu (Gary Gentzel) >>Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec >>Subject: Value of DECStation 5000's? >>Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 13:40:53 >>Organization: CAC >>Lines: 15 >>Message-ID: <gcg1.47.0025D051(a)psu.edu> >>NNTP-Posting-Host: ggentzel.oas.psu.edu >>X-Newsreader: Trumpet for Windows [Version 1.0 Rev B] >>Path: blushng.jps.net!news.eli.net!uunet!in4.uu.net!newsfeed.xcom.net!feeder.qis.net!newshub.northeast.verio.net!news3.cac.psu.edu!ggentzel.oas.psu.edu!gcg1 >> >>Our department is considering what to do with two DECStations. Could anyone >>give me a ballpark figure on what these systems may be worth? Here are the >>specs, as best as I can tell: >> >>5000/125: 16MB RAM, 3-1/2" floppy, BA42 Storage Expansion box containing TZK10 >>tape drive and 426 MB RZ25 hard drive. VR297-DA 17" monitor. >> >>5000/240: 32 or 64MB RAM, BA42A storage expansion box containing 426 MB RZ25 >>hard drive and RRD42 CD-ROM. TK50Z tape drive unit. VRT16-HA 17" monitor. >> >>Any help would be appreciated.... >> >>Gary Gentzel >>Penn State University Administrative Systems >>gcg1(a)psu.edu -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272) http://table.jps.net/~kyrrin -- also kyrrin [A-t] Jps {D=o=t} Net Spam is bad. Spam is theft of service. Spam wastes resources. Don't spam, period. I am a WASHINGTON STATE resident. Spam charged $500.00 per incident per Chapter 19 RCW.

27 years, 11 months

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FW: FREE MicroVax II and Vaxstation II/RC

by kyrrin＠jps.net

Heads up, California scroungers! Found this on Usenet. Fellow's got some freebies in the southland, and they look promising! Please contact him directly if you're interested. Attachment follows. -=-=- <snip> -=-=- On Mon, 15 Jun 1998 10:57:52 +0000, in comp.sys.dec you wrote: >>From: "Eugene Dale Tyler" <evx(a)world.sxv.com> >>Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec >>Subject: FREE MicroVax II and Vaxstation II/RC >>Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 10:57:52 +0000 >>Organization: None at all >>Lines: 19 >>Distribution: World >>Message-ID: <rqgjbeyqfgqpbz.eullkg2.pminews(a)news.ni.net> >>Reply-To: "Eugene Dale Tyler" <evx(a)world.sxv.com> >>NNTP-Posting-Host: edtserv.tylerent.com >>Mime-Version: 1.0 >>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>X-Newsreader: PMINews 2.00.0140 For OS/2 >>X-No-Archive: Yes >>Path: blushng.jps.net!news.eli.net!news.burgoyne.com!news.eecs.umich.edu!Supernews60!supernews.com!peerfeed.ncal.verio.net!nntp.ni.net!not-for-mail >> >>Hello, >> >>I am scapping a MicroVax-II (TS05/TK50/RA81) and a >>Vaxstation II/RC with a b/w monitor (VR260AA). >> >>They are located in Laguna Niguel, CA. You must arrange >>pickup. >> >>If you are interested, e-mail me at the mangled address: >> >>evx(a)world,sxv.com >> >>Regards, >> >>Dale >>Change 'x' to 't' and 'v' to 'd' to reconstruct my e-mail address >>This inconvience brought to you by the net-scum of the world. >> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272) http://table.jps.net/~kyrrin -- also kyrrin [A-t] Jps {D=o=t} Net Spam is bad. Spam is theft of service. Spam wastes resources. Don't spam, period. I am a WASHINGTON STATE resident. Spam charged $500.00 per incident per Chapter 19 RCW.

27 years, 11 months

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Old Microsoft stuff...

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

What did WYSE use in their machines? UNIX, no less? > >>> >>> Is there anyone who DIDN'T make a UNIX port? >>> Apple - A/UX >>> IBM - AIX >>> MS - Xenix >>> AT&T - UNIX >>> DEC? >> >>DEC - Ultrix ? > >Ultrix-11 >Ultrix-32 (later renamed Ultrix, when the -11 version was retired) > >There's also a VENIX for the PRO series.. > > Megan Gentry > Former RT-11 Developer > >+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ >| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry(a)zk3.dec.com | >| Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg(a)world.std.com | >| Digital Equipment Corporation | | >| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | >| Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | >| (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | >+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 11 months

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PDP-8 available in NJ

by mbg＠world.std.com

>There are plenty of surplus PDP-8s and PDP-11's only a hundred miles >from here. Practically new, but one catch: Slightly used....only nuked >once. > >As a bit of trivia, PDPs (8s/10s/11s) were the preferred machine at the >nuclear test site in Nevada. They were used for (expendable) >instrumentation very close to ground zero. Quite a few were converted >into plasma. A friend of mine (through DECUS symposia) who work(ed?) at Sandia National labs told me about what they did with them... There would be a pdp-11 down the hole with the device, connected via Ethernet to another pdp-11 with core, topside in a van. When the device was set off, the signals from the now-very-fried-11 would race the fireball up the hole where the data would be stored in core. (The speed of the advancing fireball could be somewhat determined by using TDR on the ethernet cable :-) When the shockwave hit the van, it would go bouncing across the desert until it came to rest. If was able to, it would continue recording information. If not, they came along at a later time and pulled the core plane and installed it in another machine where they would try to read it.

27 years, 11 months

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Old Microsoft stuff...

by mbg＠world.std.com

>> >> Is there anyone who DIDN'T make a UNIX port? >> Apple - A/UX >> IBM - AIX >> MS - Xenix >> AT&T - UNIX >> DEC? > >DEC - Ultrix ? Ultrix-11 Ultrix-32 (later renamed Ultrix, when the -11 version was retired) There's also a VENIX for the PRO series.. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry(a)zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg(a)world.std.com | | Digital Equipment Corporation | | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

27 years, 11 months

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Old Microsoft stuff...

by IVIE＠cc.usu.edu

>On Tue, 16 Jun 1998, Tony Duell wrote: > >> > Is there anyone who DIDN'T make a UNIX port? >[...] >> DEC - Ultrix ? > >Don't forget Eunice! OK, maybe it's better that you forget. Eunice wasn't a DEC product, though. It was done by the folks who eventually became The Wollongong Group. Roger Ivie ivie(a)cc.usu.edu

27 years, 11 months

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MS using Linux (OT)

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

On www.osnews.com, it turns out that MS put up a Linux server, linus.microsoft.com. THe fun part is that the next day they took it down, probably so that no one would notice it was ever up (guess courtesy of OSNews) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 11 months

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ok, end of OT, but thanks!

by peacock＠simconv.com

No, they don't. The Nagant (7.62x 64) has a groove diameter of .310" and uses a .311"-.312" size bullet. whoa, didn't know about the Nagant, better check the book next time. Friend has an old WW I surplus one, I think he's reloading the wrong size. It uses the .303 Brit instead?

27 years, 11 months

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Windows CE: Future classic (OT, in a way...)

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Sunburnt yellow plastic! > >John Higginbotham wrote: >> >> Even better: The Naughty Noughties ;) >> >> At 06:10 PM 6/15/98 -0700, Roger Ivie wrote: >> >> Speaking of decades, after the year 2000 bug totally obliterates all known >> >> forms of biological life on the planet, What will we call the first decade? >> >> I know I can type it as: "You know, the 00's really suck!" But how the heck >> >> are we supposed to pronounce it? >> > >> >The noughties, obviously. > >Well, the 1900-1909 period is called "the Mauve Decade" in literature. >Let's pick a new color. >-- >Ward Griffiths >They say that politics makes strange bedfellows. >Of course, the main reason they cuddle up is to screw somebody else. > Michael Flynn, _Rogue Star_ > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 11 months

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PDP-8 available in NJ

by peacock＠simconv.com

> What's with all this rhetorical nonsense about going on long treks to acquire PDP-8s? Here's a real -8 for some lucky resident of New Jersey. Long treks? I thought it was only a few hundred miles. Around here (Mojave desert) that won't even get you to the next town. Heck, in the right direction that won't even get you out of the county. There are plenty of surplus PDP-8s and PDP-11's only a hundred miles >from here. Practically new, but one catch: Slightly used....only nuked once. As a bit of trivia, PDPs (8s/10s/11s) were the preferred machine at the nuclear test site in Nevada. They were used for (expendable) instrumentation very close to ground zero. Quite a few were converted into plasma. Jack Peacock

27 years, 11 months

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Old Microsoft stuff...

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Is there anyone who DIDN'T make a UNIX port? <Apple - A/UX <IBM - AIX <MS - Xenix <AT&T - UNIX <DEC? <DR? DEC ported ULTRIX which is close to BSD unix to both PDP11 and VAX. DR? I don't think so. which is which?: Venix Zenix Xenix What and who for those. Allison

27 years, 11 months

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Couldn't be more OT if it tried! Re: (OT, in a way...)

by peacock＠simconv.com

-----Original Message----- > Well if you want to be exact, the .308 and 7.62mm rounds are two >different things! .308 is the commercial designation and 7.62mm is the >military designation and the two rounds are slightly different. Many There are numerous .30 caliber rifles and pistols. I was referring to the diameter. There is the .30-06 (WW I/II vintage), the .308 (late 50's, early Vietnam vintage, NATO), the 7.62x39 (Russian, Korea to present), the .30-30 (the famous lever action Winchester of the late 1800s), the .300 Savage (first rifle to exceed 2000 fps, also late 1800s), the .30 M1 carbine (WW II vintage), the .300 Winchester Magnum, the 7.62 Nagant, etc. All use the same basic diameter .308 bullet.

27 years, 11 months

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Zenith All-In-One ?

by cgregory＠lrbcg.com

Anyone ever hear of a Zenith All-in-One ? I can probably get one (damaged) for shipping costs, but I am wondering if it would be even worth that (a couple thousand miles). Thanks, Cliff Gregory cgregory(a)lrbcg.com

27 years, 11 months

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Collectable Old Microsoft Stuff

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

I have what looks like the first MS version, since it has no version number. Won't run on anything, I think the disk is bad. >> - Flight Simulator v1.0 > >Wasn't that a SubLogic product? > >> - Windows 1.03 > >What about version 1.0? > > >Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Ever onward. > > September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 > See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! > [Last web page update: 06/11/98] > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 11 months

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Oops.. I parsed RA82 as RA81. Ignore that.

by DSEAGRAV＠toad.xkl.com

-------

27 years, 11 months

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RA82: Does it need...?

by kyrrin＠jps.net

Does the DEC RA82 drive need to see an active SDI controller in order to spin up without a FAULT light? I know that RL02's needed power on the controller before their FAULT indicators would clear. I ask because I've spun up my RA81. It sounds OK -- positions the heads, etc. -- but it displays FAULT and diagnostic LEDs 3 & 4 (I think -- it might be 2 & 3) once it reaches operating speed. That, of course, is with the I/O cables flying in the breeze. Inquiring minds, especially those who are going to make a MicroVAXen available in the near future, wish to know! ;-) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin(a)jps.net) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."

27 years, 11 months

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Couldn't be more OT if it tried! Re: (OT, in a way...)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

For the VMS hacks out there... $Set mode/farce=comdey <Note to self: Do not, I repeat DO NOT disgruntle members of the classiccm <mailing list! They are dangerous gun toting mercenaries! :) Mercenaries, never...unless your going to scrap that machine! Where I lived in PA the, "2 double aught, 6" would have the 2 dropped as in the then present reference to 1998 would be back "in nineteen and ninty eight". Allison, Who totes a 12ga to avoid ambiguity! ;) $Set mode/farce=inactive

27 years, 11 months

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Fixing "old" (but not quite classic) IDE and MFM drives?

by jeff.kaneko＠ifrsys.com

While we're on this subject. . . Does anyone out there have a copy of SpeedStor that can access Storage Dimensions old 8-bit scsi host adaptors? (Specifically, the DataCannon 800). I'm trying to test an old scsi MFM controller board, and I need to format the drive, first! Jeff > > > On Tue, 16 Jun 1998, Charles E. Fox wrote: > > (I've shortened your quote of my email...) > > > > Several of these drives seem to almost work (they make the usual sounds > > >at power up and can be detected by the bios of a newer PC) but they won't > > >format/fdisk for me. > > > > > > > > I have had quite good results with Ontrack Disk Manager, about four times > > out of five it will get an old drive going and lock out the bad sectors. > > The recovered drives have been going in XTs etc. At ten or twenty megs > > capacity there is no point in trying to install them in modern computers. > > > > Thanks for the tip. I've tried Spinrite and some program I got with a WD > drive. I believe I got Ontrack with a drive I bought recently. I'll try > it. I'm afraid it may be beyond that though. The drives are not getting > as far as reporting bad sectors ... they just hang when I try to format > them. > > Regards, > > Bjorn Eng > > > > >

27 years, 11 months

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Fixing "old" (but not quite classic) IDE and MFM drives?

by bjorn＠ktb.net

Hi, I've got a question about "borderline" classics. I've got a few old PCs >from right around 1990, maybe a bit earlier and I've got several small IDE and MFM drives that I've scavenged from various places. Several of these drives seem to almost work (they make the usual sounds at power up and can be detected by the bios of a newer PC) but they won't format/fdisk for me. Anyone have any tips of things to try as far as simple troubleshooting? Or are they doomed for the dumpster? Thanks, Bjorn

27 years, 11 months

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ATT 6310

by ddameron＠earthlink.net

Hello all, I have found a AT&T 6310 PC box. Can anyone tell me anything about it? Is it 10 years old, yet? It is heavy enough I'd thought it had a large linear supply in it, but only a switcher ps! It was made in Italy by Olivetti, as mentioned on the 6300 thread. Opening the top reveals a AT type passive motherboard- the CPU, etc. is apparently on another one in another compartment below it, which I haven't gotten to yet. All the cards are 8 bits, except a Mouse Systems serial card which extends about 1/3 way into the "16 bit extension". There is another 2 port serial card and also a MIcrosoft Inport card with a mini-DIN connector. There is also a serial and printer port on the "hidden" CPU card, both DB-25, and a DB-9 connector for the keyboard. There is a volume control on the front, but haven't found the speaker, either. -Dave

27 years, 11 months

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Off-topica

by fauradon＠pclink.com

>Well, older southern men in the US used to say, for example, "19 ot 6" >for 1906. So I guess we could revive that in 2006 and say "20 ot 6". But >this has nothing to do with the original question. > Wouldn't that be 2ot ot 6? Francois ------------------------------------------------------------- Visit the Sanctuary at: http://www.pclink.com/fauradon

27 years, 11 months

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RA82: Does it need...?

by emu＠ecubics.com

Hi Bruce, ---------- > From: Bruce Lane <kyrrin(a)jps.net> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: RA82: Does it need...? > Date: Tuesday, June 16, 1998 12:21 AM > > Does the DEC RA82 drive need to see an active SDI controller in order to > spin up without a FAULT light? I know that RL02's needed power on the > controller before their FAULT indicators would clear. as far i know, YES. My ra90 spins up without sdi controller, but after few seconds you get an error with soemthing like "sync errors" whitch means there is no communication. then you never get the ready light. hope it helps, emanuel

27 years, 11 months

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Fixing "old" (but not quite classic) IDE and MFM drives?

by JRichardson＠softwright.co.uk

>> I've got a question about "borderline" classics. I've got a few old PCs >>from right around 1990, maybe a bit earlier and I've got several small IDE >>and MFM drives that I've scavenged from various places. >> >> Several of these drives seem to almost work (they make the usual sounds >>at power up and can be detected by the bios of a newer PC) but they won't >>format/fdisk for me. The way I understand it, IDE drives should automatically map out bad blocks, (is this true for all IDE drives?) whereas MFM disks won't. Therefore I'd assume that once an IDE drive starts presenting bad blocks to the user its days are pretty numbered... I was once told that a small percentage of an IDE disk is unused, purely for the sake of providing a "reserve" area so that the disk could cope with some bad blocks whilst still giving the user the impression that full capacity was available - is this true, or just one of those stories that I happened to turn up over the years?? cheers J. >

27 years, 11 months

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TRS 80 Model 4 Wanted (fwd)

by scott＠saskatoon.com

Can anyone in 'NE' (Sorry, I can't always remember all of your states abbreviations... at least we only have 12. Is that Nebraska?) help this guy out? Please reply directly to him, not me or the list. ttyl srw ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 15:38:53 -0700 From: COMPASS <compass(a)navix.net> To: scott(a)saskatoon.com Subject: TRS 80 Model 4 Wanted We are looking for a TRS 80 Model 4 to operate an engraving machine (the old one died). Any suggestions? Pete Godfrey Compass Materials Handling Systems A Division of Schuler Industries, Inc. PO Box 714 Beatrice, NE 68310 Phone: 402-223-5678 Fax: 402-228-4193 Email: compass(a)navix.net

27 years, 11 months

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Old Microsoft stuff...

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

Hi. Now, I don't want to start a flamewar, but still, Microsoft HAS played an important part in personal computing, for better or for worse. From 1986 or so onwards, they were a industry dominator. Now, from what I understand, the origional MS logo was GREEN? Somebody have a picture? Other than OS's and current Office Applications (and, of course, Internet Explorer, which is a decent browser, and DOES have pleanty of innovation, if you're prepared to admit it.), what did MS make? Anything for say... the Apple II? PDP's? UN*X boxes (once again, omitting current ports of IE 4.0)? Thanks, Tim D. Hotze

27 years, 11 months

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Backwater areas Was: Re: Cross listing Ebay items

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<> Say a real goodie shows up, like a perfect DEC Straight-8 or an unbuil <> Altair kit. Assume the price is good, Assuming the price was affordable I'd drive a good distance. So far I've gone as far as 180miles. For a working PDP-8(any) I'd cross a few states if I could swing it. For an altair... I have one, thanks. I've assembled three of them back when. Have the shirt, been there. I'd look for an IMSAI it was a better machine. Allison PS: periodic request... IMSAI IMP-48 docs, I'm looking for a copy.

27 years, 11 months

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Windows CE: Future classic (OT, in a way...)

by peacock＠simconv.com

I know I can type it as: "You know, the 00's really suck!" But how the heck are we supposed to pronounce it? Simple, as anyone who owns a .30-06 deer rifle can tell tell you, it will be the "double ought" decade. Same as 100 years ago, the first year will be "ought zero". BTW, .30-06 is a US rifle caliber, .308 inches (7.62mm), designed in 1906, or "thirty ought six". 20 years from now, we'll be talking about that old 500Mhz P II made back in "Ought One". Jack Peacock

27 years, 11 months

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Collectable Old Microsoft Stuff

by fauradon＠pclink.com

>> - Flight Simulator v1.0 > >Wasn't that a SubLogic product? It certainly was, I have several copies for the Apple II. The funny thing is that I believe that the MS version still had the same packaging. > >> - Windows 1.03 > >What about version 1.0? > Francois ------------------------------------------------------------- Visit the Sanctuary at: http://www.pclink.com/fauradon

27 years, 11 months

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Old Microsoft stuff...

by desieh＠southcom.com.au

-----Original Message----- From: Allison J Parent <allisonp(a)world.std.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Tuesday, June 16, 1998 1:52 Subject: Re: Old Microsoft stuff... ><From: "Hotze" <photze(a)batelco.com.bh> ><Hi. Now, I don't want to start a flamewar, but still, Microsoft HAS play ><an important part in personal computing, for better or for worse. From 1 ><or so onwards, they were a industry dominator. > >First off your dates are grossly in error. MS in the persona of Gates >was involved in putting basic on the altair via MITS. When CP/M was >gaining ground as the dominent 8080/z80 OS microsoft was the dominent >language supplier. The majik system was a z80 running cp/m and MSbasic >compiler, MAC and L80, and maybe Multiplan. > ><for say... the Apple II? PDP's? UN*X boxes (once again, omitting curren ><ports of IE 4.0)? > >Apple: Apple softcard combind package of CP/M and MS languges and a z80. >TRS80: Disk basic. >PDP-11: Didn't MS do a unix varient? >UNix... they did have a hand in a PC unix and apps for it. > >Allison > email: desieh(a)southcom.com.au desieh(a)bigfoot.com museum_curator(a)hotmail.com Apple Lisa Web Page: http://www.southcom.com.au/~desieh/index.htm dont forget about zenix, and msk............ for the people who dont know msk was MicroSofts attempt at setting computer standards in countries like Japan back in the early 1980's, they also reached Australia but I dont know about the States..

27 years, 11 months

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Old Microsoft stuff...

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

>again XENIX, while not technically MS, a few years ago (3 or 4) there ports >of MS Word and Excel for Suns and maybe HP's. I gather they are also >currently porting some kind of network conferencing software to Linux?!?!?! Yep. That'd be Microsoft NetMeeting. Pretty cool product. Supports video, audio, message boards. They've also got an Internet Explorer port to Sun Solaris and HP-UX. Ciao, Tim D. Hotze

27 years, 11 months

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Collectable Old Microsoft Stuff

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

>- Beethoven v1.0 (the first mass market multimedia CD-ROM) When was this made? How many were made? >- Bob (hey, if you own a Lisa or a PC jr. you need their software >equivalent!) Didn't MS repackage that as something else, like a kids program rather recently? >- Flight Simulator v1.0 >- Windows 1.03 What about Windows 2.11? I LOVE Windows 2.11. Now... if it'd only caught on... >Kai Tim D. Hotze

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BASIC 80 Re: Old Microsoft stuff...

by fmc＠reanimators.org

Joe <rigdonj(a)intellistar.net> wrote: > I have a brown 3 ring binder that has MicroSoft printed diagonally > across it in large white letters. The binder is labeled "BASIC-80". Inside > it has an 8 inch floppy disk that's marked "Hewlett-Packard single sided > flexible disc". Does anyone know what ssytem it's for? Well, um, no. If you made me guess which HP system, I'd say HP125, which was a CP/M machine built into a 262X terminal body. But I'd be a little bit surprised that it's not dressed up as an HP product. HP was doing that with Microsoft products in the mid-1980s, e.g. the Microsoft Pascal compiler for the HP150. -Frank McConnell

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Unusual find

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 10:04 AM 6/15/98 -0500, you wrote: >To keep this on-topic, computer book publishers today will >circulate a dozen or so preliminary copies of a book to reviewers >at magazines for promotional purposes as well as to industry I used to work for a small publisher (long enough ago so as to be way on topic, and we'll leave it at that) where one of my jobs was to make multiple photocopies of a master copy, collate, assemble, and clib them together. They were review copies, and they were done on a small office copier. So, if you come across an older computer book like that, it's not necessarily a pirated copy. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 11 months

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Old Microsoft stuff...

by jeff.kaneko＠ifrsys.com

<SNIP> Methinks they also did a port of MS-Word for the AT&T Unix-PC 7300 (A fine 68010 box, BTW). Jeff > > Apple: Apple softcard combind package of CP/M and MS languges and a z80. > TRS80: Disk basic. > PDP-11: Didn't MS do a unix varient? > UNix... they did have a hand in a PC unix and apps for it. > > Allison > > > >

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Windows CE: Future classic (OT, in a way...)

by higginbo＠netpath.net

Even better: The Naughty Noughties ;) At 06:10 PM 6/15/98 -0700, Roger Ivie wrote: >> Speaking of decades, after the year 2000 bug totally obliterates all known >> forms of biological life on the planet, What will we call the first decade? >> I know I can type it as: "You know, the 00's really suck!" But how the heck >> are we supposed to pronounce it? > >The noughties, obviously. > >Roger Ivie >ivie(a)cc.usu.edu > - - john higginbotham ____________________________ - webmaster www.pntprinting.com - - limbo limbo.netpath.net -

27 years, 11 months

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Windows CE: Future classic (OT, in a way...)

by IVIE＠cc.usu.edu

> Speaking of decades, after the year 2000 bug totally obliterates all known > forms of biological life on the planet, What will we call the first decade? > I know I can type it as: "You know, the 00's really suck!" But how the heck > are we supposed to pronounce it? The noughties, obviously. Roger Ivie ivie(a)cc.usu.edu

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PS to Kilobaud articles.

by jon＠techniche.com

Oh yea Ward, One other thing. I just re-read your message and remember the comment about Laconia. If you're coming to NH you can pick these up. That's where we're located, in Manchester. Jon

27 years, 11 months

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Old Microsoft stuff...

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<From: "Hotze" <photze(a)batelco.com.bh> <Hi. Now, I don't want to start a flamewar, but still, Microsoft HAS play <an important part in personal computing, for better or for worse. From 1 <or so onwards, they were a industry dominator. First off your dates are grossly in error. MS in the persona of Gates was involved in putting basic on the altair via MITS. When CP/M was gaining ground as the dominent 8080/z80 OS microsoft was the dominent language supplier. The majik system was a z80 running cp/m and MSbasic compiler, MAC and L80, and maybe Multiplan. <for say... the Apple II? PDP's? UN*X boxes (once again, omitting curren <ports of IE 4.0)? Apple: Apple softcard combind package of CP/M and MS languges and a z80. TRS80: Disk basic. PDP-11: Didn't MS do a unix varient? UNix... they did have a hand in a PC unix and apps for it. Allison

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"Industrial" XT, Compaq luggables, Misc

by manney＠lrbcg.com

I just acquired an XT with a grey case bearing the logo "Industrial Computer". Seems normal inside. Anyone ever heard of one? I also got 2 Compaq XT luggables. Some 286 RAMPAGE cards Tons of XT and AT parts e-mail me privately if you're looking for something. manney(a)lrbcg.com

27 years, 11 months

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Old Microsoft stuff...

by higginbo＠netpath.net

At 06:46 PM 6/15/98 +0100, Tony Duell wrote: >Another microsoft product which I've not seen mentioned here yet was, of >course, the Microsoft mouse for PCs (and later those Microsoft keyboards) Those bus mice? I worked on a friend's machine that had one: A Xerox XT class running Windows 1.0. 640x400x2 mode I believe. Oh yeah, they were called Inport Bus mice, ran off their own 8-bit card. Not a bad mouse for it's time. - - john higginbotham ____________________________ - webmaster www.pntprinting.com - - limbo limbo.netpath.net -

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Unusual find

by fauradon＠pclink.com

I gues these are the equivalent of prototypes in the publishing industry. Francois ------------------------------------------------------------- Visit the Sanctuary at: http://www.pclink.com/fauradon -----Original Message----- From: Joe <rigdonj(a)intellistar.net> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Saturday, June 13, 1998 7:54 PM Subject: Re: Unusual find >At 07:19 PM 6/13/98 -0500, you wrote: >>Hi, >>I just found a book Titled Odyssey Pepsi to Apple by John Sculley. It is the >>advance copy from uncorrected manuscript. >>How often do anyone of you run into that kind of print? > > I rarely see this kind of thing, but I do have a book titled "Marching >Thru Georgia" that was published in the 1800s that has *three* hard covers >on it and all three are a different style, color and material! Inside the >book it mentions that the books are available with three different covers >so I guess this one was a "demo" to show the different cover styles. Also >some of the pages are missing. But they weren't removed since the binding >is intact and even pages that should be on the same sheet of paper are >missing. For example, page 99 will be on the RH page and when you turn the >page page 100 should be on the left but it will be missing and page 101 >will be there instead! Very strange! I've never seen or heard of a book >like it before. > > Joe >

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DEC TK-25

by jeff.kaneko＠ifrsys.com

I've located a TK-25 (w/ tape ) at a surplus house. Was there anyone on this list looking for one? If so, please respond via private e-mail. Jeff jeff.kaneko(a)ifrsys.com

27 years, 11 months

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Pen Windows 2.0

by mbg＠world.std.com

I have an NCR System 3130, which is a 386-based system with 8mb of memory and a 20mb hard disk. It also has some sort of PROM system disk (as device d:). I currently have no way of transferring info to and from the machine and would love to find the external floppy adapter for it... Might someone on this list have one laying around, or be able to provide a pointer to someone who has one? Also, does anyone have any technical documents for this machine? When I upgraded the memory and installed a modem, the system would no longer cleanly boot up from the C drive... it gets stuck somewhere in the process while it is still using D:... Thanks in advance for any info... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry(a)zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg(a)world.std.com | | Digital Equipment Corporation | | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

27 years, 11 months

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Windows CE: Future classic (OT, in a way...)

by higginbo＠netpath.net

At 02:34 PM 6/15/98 -0500, Doug Yowza wrote: >No, no. Tube machines were a gas in the 50's. PDP-1's were groovy in the >60's. Pong was ultra-bitchen in the 70's. The Amiga was gnarly in the >80's. And, well, the 90's ... :-( dOOd. Is it just me or do the 90's seem like the 70's and 80's combined with all the really cool stuff left out? Speaking of decades, after the year 2000 bug totally obliterates all known forms of biological life on the planet, What will we call the first decade? I know I can type it as: "You know, the 00's really suck!" But how the heck are we supposed to pronounce it? I think I have stumbled upon an even bigger problem than the Y2k problem was ever forseen as! - - john higginbotham ____________________________ - webmaster www.pntprinting.com - - limbo limbo.netpath.net -

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Old Microsoft stuff...

by mbg＠world.std.com

>>Absolutely. Applesoft BASIC (in every II+ and later, and installed as >>an option in most II's) was written by Microsoft. Microsoft also sold >>several well-known Apple II games (ADVENTURE is the most well-known). > >They wrote that? DUDE!!!! (I recently aquired a Applesoft BASIC manual >(C) 1979, in near mint condition.) They didn't write the original... that was Crowther and Woods (if memory serves). They may have written *a* version... but history doesn't start with PCs and MicroSoft. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry(a)zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg(a)world.std.com | | Digital Equipment Corporation | | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

27 years, 11 months

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Windows CE: Future classic (OT, in a way...)

by higginbo＠netpath.net

At 01:28 PM 6/15/98 -0500, you wrote: >Sure, just as easily as you can move stuff between the 6502 based Nintendo >and an AIM-65 (i.e., no way dOOd -- even if the CPU is the same, nothing >else is). However, I seem to recall that Microsoft recently signed-up a >game machine manufacturer for CE, and it was either Nintendo or Sega. Sega. For the new 128-bit console system: Dreamcast. Coming to America next year. Out in Japan by Fall this year. <offtopic alert! offtopic alert!> Err, man, those Atari Pong games sure were a gas back in the 70's, man! Groooovy! *Whew!* Close one. ________________________________________ john higginbotham limbo.netpath.net - webmaster, http://www.pntprinting.com - "Teamwork is essential; it gives the - enemy other people to shoot at." -

27 years, 11 months

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New toy, HP Apollo 4500, and it's broken...

by DSEAGRAV＠toad.xkl.com

I got a apollo 4500. It has a 68030 inside, and a 700-someodd meg MFM (?) harddisk. I have no idea what it runs. This one has a SummaSketch pad with it. It was used for CAD stuff. What's it run? The problem with it is, the video card appears to have died. WHen I power the machine on (It has a VERY LARGE [21"] RGB monitor. Any chance of me connecting it to a PC? It has 3 plugs, R G B, and expects sync on green) and the monitor, I get garbage. The garbage is the same almost every time. There is 3 patterns. The first one is just garbage, the second one is the same garbage only dimmer, and the third is a light blue blank screen. All of them are light blue colored. The summasketch puck is also wrecked, someone's jerked the MMJ plug off the end. But I can get another one of those. There is a switch in the back (Next to the reset (?) button) than, when pressed, activates a 4-LED indication inside the case. When I start the machine, it flickers around, and stops at 1 on, 2 3 and 4 blinking. Is this a failure code? What's this switch for? Am I correct in my assumption? (Dead video) I've already pushed all the socketed chips in as far as they'll go. That didn't help. I also removed the video card (It has no socketed chips) and reseated it. This also has a network adapter, labled DOMAIN RING. What wire does that expect? I'm guessing it's not Ethernet... Oh, the label on the front says APOLLO DOMAIN 4500. FOrgot that :) -------

27 years, 11 months

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Mini-Monitors?

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 01:30 PM 6/12/98 -0800, you wrote: >I know of sources that satisfy everything except the *cheap*. >Small VGA color monitors - 5", 7", etc. - are readily >available from all the folks who sell embedded systems and >components. Expect to pay $600 and up, though. > >For a similar price you can also get VGA-compatible color LCD >displays in the same size range. Ooh, that would be *perfect*, except for the $. 8^( Hmmm.. How good is the security at these places? 8^) But seriously, a 5-7" monitor for $600? I guess there's not as big a market for them, but the folks that need 'em *really* need 'em. >a Pentium motherboard that's only 2.5" square! Now that's pretty damn cool! I picked up a SIIG computer. It's a 386SX (and probably too new for here) and is about 4" wide by 3" tall, by about 11" long. Fully self contained, just add monitor and keyboard. Has 16-bit and 8-bit ISA Slots (1 each), and both floppy and hard drive. Pretty darn cool; it's my new voicemail system. 8^) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 11 months

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Windows CE: Future classic (OT, in a way...)

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

OK. I just purchased a Windows CE handheld. I realized that: 1) It represents MS's rebirth. That, along with cross-platform apps, means that MS isn't going to be doing to much with Windows 9x/NT after a couple years... 2) It's lighting fast, and covers all kinds of processors. Now, I've got 2 questions: 1) With a Velo, is there any way to save files after it's turned off without purchasing a hard card? 2) With a MIPS-based handheld, could I get stuff moving between this and my N64? Ciao, Tim D. Hotze

27 years, 11 months

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Windows CE: Future classic (OT, in a way...)

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

>Thanks for the tip, Tim. I'll dump all of my intel stock now. :-) Seriously, that doesn't mean going away from Intel. x86 is supported. Besides, Linux'll take over x86's hardware.... ;-) >> 2) It's lighting fast, and covers all kinds of processors. > >The H/PC was a bit of a flop. For some reason, not many people wanted to >buy a machine that looked like Windows95, but ran on slower hardware with >no application compatibility. Well, believe it or not, it took Microsoft for "open-season" to start on handhelds. >However, I like the new Pilot rip-off, the Palm-sized PC, better. And if >you've never seen their Auto PC for cars, brace yourself for some drooling >(guaranteed to flop at the current $2K price though). They're also making >inroads into embedded systems with CE. Great. Now, stoplights and car batteries will freeze on me. >> 1) With a Velo, is there any way to save files after it's turned off without >> purchasing a hard card? > >You've got internal battery-backed RAM for that. OK. >> 2) With a MIPS-based handheld, could I get stuff moving between this and my >> N64? > >Sure, just as easily as you can move stuff between the 6502 based Nintendo >and an AIM-65 (i.e., no way dOOd -- even if the CPU is the same, nothing >else is). However, I seem to recall that Microsoft recently signed-up a >game machine manufacturer for CE, and it was either Nintendo or Sega. That's what I thought. But I heard a friend talk about it... As for the Sega, Windows CE's OK for what I want it for: Simple eMail. No graphics, no attachments. I don't want Windows CE freezing up my game machine. Especially not when UNIX based competitiors are availabe. I said that I liked Windows CE. I didn't say that it was the best at anything. Just shows promise. Ciao, Tim D. Hotze

27 years, 11 months

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Old Microsoft stuff...

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

>Green? For the first half-dozen years I never saw any Microsoft >documents in color. I have several Microsoft manuals and binders >from when their office was in Arizona and all of those are >black on white. Later stuff from when they moved to a suite in >Bellevue was still in black and white. I didn't see any green until >1980-1982 when Microsoft was selling Digital Research's CP/M with >their Softcard (Z-80 drop-in for the Apple II). OK. How many softcards were made? >BASIC implementation for dozens of personal computers in the late 70's >and very early 80's, most importantly. I know that. Was their first BASIC the 4K tape one for the Altair? >> Anything >> for say... the Apple II? > >Absolutely. Applesoft BASIC (in every II+ and later, and installed as >an option in most II's) was written by Microsoft. Microsoft also sold >several well-known Apple II games (ADVENTURE is the most well-known). They wrote that? DUDE!!!! (I recently aquired a Applesoft BASIC manual (C) 1979, in near mint condition.) >You know, I could go on for pages and pages with software that Microsoft >sold in the late 70's and early 80's for non PC-platforms. You'd probably >be much better educated about computing in that era if you simply went >and found the _BYTE_ magazines from that time frame and read the ads. OK. See, I checked out MS's museum, and I'd have to say that from a corporate perspective, it had a pretty fair view of things. They had the Apple II, Macintosh, Altair, etc. there. >Tim. (shoppa(a)triumf.ca) Tim D. Hotze

27 years, 11 months

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New toy, HP Apollo 4500, and it's broken...

by JRichardson＠softwright.co.uk

>>>I think it depends on the machine. My DN3500 is about PC/AT sized. My >> >425 is a less tall, but takes up more desk area. didn't these things need some sort of domain controller or something to boot? I remember playing around with one at the place where I used to work repairing old machines and it got a sensible display up but then refused to boot. Mind you, I seem to remember that it took two keyboards - a standard PC one and an HP-specific one... the whole lot went to the tip sadly, minus the SCSI disks which were formatted for a different system (mind you, I rescued a few good machines from that place over time - the Tower32/700, Tektronix XD88, Philips P3800, numerous Link 480Z's and BBC model B's to name but a few...) >> disk and MB in it, the FPU went to my upgraded Mac SE), and I didn't even >> get ONE part out, just a face full of PCB fumes(whatever those boards are blowtorches work wonders surprisingly. It's very rare to toast a chip providing you're careful with heat distribution (not recommended for repair jobs on boards that you want to keep though ;*) cheers Jules

27 years, 11 months

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Old Microsoft stuff...

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

I guess you're right. But still... er... um... Tim D. Hotze -----Original Message----- From: Tim Shoppa <shoppa(a)alph02.triumf.ca> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Monday, June 15, 1998 10:46 PM Subject: Re: Old Microsoft stuff... >> Yep. I know that. But MS dominance didn't exactly happen overnight. They >> didn't have much of a hold in anything until the IBM PC took off... > >I'd disagree with you here. Microsoft had a much broader scope before >the IBM PC, selling hundreds of pieces of software for dozens of >different platforms. And certainly a plurality, if not a majority, of 8-bit >home micros booted straight into Microsoft BASIC. Just about every >consumer-oriented-everything-in-a-box CP/M system came bundled with >MBASIC! > >Tim.

27 years, 11 months

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Old Microsoft stuff...

by JRichardson＠softwright.co.uk

>> Olympic Decathalon (responsible for many a broken left/right arrow key >> required for the running competitions). is that the same game as Daley Thompson's Decathalon on the old Spectrum? Seem to remember that burning out a few keys - I didn't realise it was a Microsoft product though!! Jules >

27 years, 11 months

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Old Alpha's (OT)

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

Nope. I mean (mostly) DEC systems based on the Alpha 64-bit microprocessor. Sorry for any confusions... Tim D. Hotze

27 years, 11 months

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Old Microsoft stuff...

by jeff.kaneko＠ifrsys.com

> Hi. Now, I don't want to start a flamewar, but still, Microsoft HAS played > an important part in personal computing, for better or for worse. From 1986 > or so onwards, they were a industry dominator. > Now, from what I understand, the origional MS logo was GREEN? Somebody > have a picture? Yes it was green. If I can find an example, I'll scan it for you. > Other than OS's and current Office Applications (and, of course, > Internet Explorer, which is a decent browser, and DOES have pleanty of > innovation, if you're prepared to admit it.), what did MS make? Anything > for say... the Apple II? PDP's? UN*X boxes (once again, omitting current > ports of IE 4.0)? Well, you're getting a copy of MULTIPLAN for the Apple ][. Seems like there was a word processor for the A][ as well. Don't forget Excel for the MAC. Excel was on the Macintosh long before it became a standard on that 'other' windowing OS. In fact, Excel is the only Microsoft product that actually *PREDATES* the operating system it runs on! No, MS Word dosen't count-- WinWord was a totally new product, bearing *no* resemblence to the original 'Word' for Mess-DOs. Excel was a straight port (well, it *looks* that way, anyway). If I look through some old issues of byte, I'm sure I'll find others . . . Jeff

27 years, 11 months

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Old Alpha's (OT)

by JRichardson＠softwright.co.uk

>> Which "Alpha"? Alpha Micro? Hmm, is that "Alpha micro" as in "Alphatronic PC"? I have a few of those things lying around someplace in various states - my old university wrote their own terminal software for them, burned it out to eeprom, and we used to use them as terminals to access the Unix systems. IIRC I did see reference to an expansion box that allowed the use of hard drives with CP/M on - I did a lot of digging at the time and never turned up anything for them - I just had the custom Uni terminal ROMs and a set of BASIC ROMs that originally came with the machines. They were made by Triumph-Adler, from what I remember. Any information on these boxes would be most helpful!! (I have the original manuals, but they don't exactly go into a lot of detail) cheers Jules >

27 years, 11 months

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Old Microsoft stuff...

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

Yep. I'll count that. BTW, welcome back! One time, I was eMailing you for help on something... didn't get a response... then you stopped posting to ClassicCmp... Ciao, Tim D. Hotze -----Original Message----- From: John Higginbotham <higginbo(a)netpath.net> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Monday, June 15, 1998 8:59 PM Subject: Re: Old Microsoft stuff... >At 05:37 PM 6/15/98 +0300, you wrote: > >> Other than OS's and current Office Applications (and, of course, >>Internet Explorer, which is a decent browser, and DOES have pleanty of >>innovation, if you're prepared to admit it.), what did MS make? Anything >>for say... the Apple II? PDP's? UN*X boxes (once again, omitting current >>ports of IE 4.0)? > >Does Microsoft BASIC on the TRS-80 Model 100 count? > > >________________________________________ >john higginbotham limbo.netpath.net - >webmaster, http://www.pntprinting.com - >"Teamwork is essential; it gives the - >enemy other people to shoot at." - > > > >

27 years, 11 months

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Old Alpha's (OT)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Hi. Just wanted to know if anyone out here knows where I can get an old <alpha... (real old). < Ciao, Ah, you gotta be kiddin.... The alpha is maybe max 8 years old! Allison

27 years, 11 months

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PDP model line / rarity?

by JRichardson＠softwright.co.uk

>>> hmm. My university had a 7 which as far as I know was never used - it >>> just sat there as a conversational point in one of the physics labs. I >>> probably could have taken it, but just don't have the room for it (nor >>> the knowledge to keep it running, and I don't have the time these days >>> to learn about any new machines sadly!) >> >> When was this -7 just sitting there, out of curiosity? well I graduated a couple of years ago, so I last saw it probably about three years ago now (never had much call to go into the physics buildings). as I said, I don't know PDP machines so couldn't tell you how much of a system there was there or what state it was in - it had a paper sign hanging on the front saying "PDP7" and used to get pointed out during tours (heh heh, so I guess there could have been anything in there!! :) wish I'd taken a better look at it (mind you, as I said I couldn't really justify keeping such a beast, and I used to get enough obsolete equipment that the computing department used to throw out anyway!) cheers J. >

27 years, 11 months

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PDP model line / rarity?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<I was just wondering on the rarity of DEC's PDPx machines - I gather <that '11s are still pretty common (relatively!), but what about earlier <machines in the line? PDP = Programmed Data Processor. It was a ploy to tame down the idea of large, expensive and complex computers. The PDP-8E/F/M/A series was quite popular swith sales in the many tens of thousands. There are many of these in service as machine tool controllers and other uses. PDP-11 series was even more prolific. Rare machines are the PDP-1 (few left), PDP-5 the forunner to the 8, and 10s. The total sales for the PDP-1/4/5/6/7/9/10/12/15 combined was under 5000 units. Generally the 18 and 36bit machines are tough to find and if found represent a bit of work to run. Allison

27 years, 11 months

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PDP model line / rarity?

by mbg＠world.std.com

>I was just wondering on the rarity of DEC's PDPx machines - I gather >that '11s are still pretty common (relatively!), but what about earlier >machines in the line? There seem to be a fair number of -8's in private hands, at least there are a number of people who post on alt.sys.pdp8 who have them. Probably more Decmates then older -8s. As for -11s, I have quite a few, mostly qbus... There are even some people who have -10s and -20s at home. I've not seen any info on others like -4, -7, -9, -15, etc (other than the emulators that Bob Supnik of DEC wrote). >Also - what did PDP stand for? (I don't expect that "Portable" came into >it ;*) Sorry for the dumb question - I grew up with classic 8-bit micros >and 32-bit Unix machines - shame I missed out on some of the big old >boxes, they sound like fun (if a bit impractical from a storage point of >view!! :) PDP = Programmed Data Processor. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry(a)zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg(a)world.std.com | | Digital Equipment Corporation | | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

27 years, 11 months

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Composite <> Video

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

Just want to check... Composite Video (as in a lot of 8-bit computers) is *not* the same thing as the Video ports on, say, a VCR or camcorder, right? And Composite is also not the same as what the Atari 2600 (et al) use to hook up to a telly? Thanks... --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 11 months

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MS Windows 1.03 for sale

by desieh＠southcom.com.au

-----Original Message----- From: Doug Yowza <yowza(a)yowza.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Monday, June 15, 1998 7:39 Subject: Re: MS Windows 1.03 for sale >On Mon, 15 Jun 1998, Sam Ismail wrote: > >> I bid $4billion! Oh wait, its only v1.03. I was looking for 1.02. Never >> mind. > >I have 1.02. Will that be cash or credit card? > >-- Doug > email: desieh(a)southcom.com.au desieh(a)bigfoot.com museum_curator(a)hotmail.com Apple Lisa Web Page: http://www.southcom.com.au/~desieh/index.htm ive got 1.02 but its in french, or is that france?? want it:> maybe not................

27 years, 11 months

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Mini-Monitors?

by fauradon＠pclink.com

I found their web site: http://www.digisys.net/timeline/lcd.html Looks like they have few for good prices Francois ------------------------------------------------------------- Visit the Sanctuary at: http://www.pclink.com/fauradon -----Original Message----- From: Allison J Parent <allisonp(a)world.std.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Sunday, June 14, 1998 2:20 PM Subject: Re: Mini-Monitors? ><In Circuit Cellar this month there is an add from timeline inc. It has a ><VGA LCD 640 X 480 Sanyo LMDK55-22 listed for $25. That is the only info ><given on the add. their phone number is (800) 872-8878 no web site :( ><Francois > >I'll call tehm but I suspect it will be like the DELL(sharp) LCD I have >and while VGA sized it is not a vga interface. > >Allison >

27 years, 11 months

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another classiccmp coinkydink URL

by mor＠crl.com

Considering the recent chatter on analog computers, plus the Dow Jones 10,000 problem somebody brought up, I found this listing at Haggle.Com pretty cute: http://www.haggle.com/cgi/getitem.cgi?id=201642752 -- mor(a)crl.com http://www.crl.com/~mor/

27 years, 11 months

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Final Xerox Star demo

by fmc＠reanimators.org

Frank McConnell <fmc(a)reanimators.org> wrote: > > I'm really hoping to be there, but I still have to figure out how to get > > from Walnut Creek at 5pm to Palto Alo at 5:30... > > I see a need for speed. Hmm, usually they start a few minutes late, > but Umm, duh. I plead damaged swap area. Anyway, usually they start a few minutes late, but at the TCMHC site I think that's because it takes that long for folks to quit gawking at the old iron and sit down. -Frank McConnell

27 years, 11 months

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Final Xerox Star demo

by fmc＠reanimators.org

Uncle Roger <sinasohn(a)ricochet.net> wrote: > >> >> Final Demo of the Xerox Star Workstation > >> >> 5:30 to 7:00pm > > I'm really hoping to be there, but I still have to figure out how to get > from Walnut Creek at 5pm to Palto Alo at 5:30... I see a need for speed. Hmm, usually they start a few minutes late, but > Ooh, I *love* waving my appendages, especially my phelanges! That's the spirit! Tongues, too! > Only, Wednesdays, esp. the second wed are not good... Make it the second > Thursday and you've got a deal. 8^) Well, second Wednesday was Paul's suggestion (and "suggestion" may be too strong a word), and he and I are both flexible. I figure whoever shows up at PARC will probably yak about this some Wednesday night and hopefully we will arrive at something close enough to consensus to post a real time and place. -Frank McConnell

27 years, 11 months

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Mini-Monitors?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<In Circuit Cellar this month there is an add from timeline inc. It has a <VGA LCD 640 X 480 Sanyo LMDK55-22 listed for $25. That is the only info <given on the add. their phone number is (800) 872-8878 no web site :( <Francois I'll call tehm but I suspect it will be like the DELL(sharp) LCD I have and while VGA sized it is not a vga interface. Allison

27 years, 11 months

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Mini-Monitors?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<>I'm also interested in same and know someone that might like info. <>There is a truck load of applications for a cheap/compact/lowpower <>VGA display. <> <>Allison < <Geez, Allison, If I was a EE god like yourself, I'd grab me a coupla <busted|older laptops and build an interface for the LCD screens. 8^) Humm, I have a dell laptop display and it will take a potload of ttl and ram to make it into a system... the results will be more power hungry than I want. FYI this is NOT for a PC so PC hacks are not the most useful. Allison

27 years, 11 months

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RCA VP3301 Data Terminal

by carl.friend＠stoneweb.com

G'day. In the last large haul I made (which included an Eclipse S/130 and a Nova 4) for my collection, I acquired a little RCA terminal which bills itself as an "Office Appliance". It's quite clearly a small video terminal and seems to be based around the 1801 microprocessor. I'm wondering if anybody has the manuals for the little beast and can tell me what the power supply puts out, and on what pins (it's got a DIN connector on the back labelled "power"). I'd sort of like to fire it up and see how it works. Thanks! ______________________________________________________________________ | | | | Carl Richard Friend (UNIX Sysadmin) | West Boylston | | Minicomputer Collector / Enthusiast | Massachusetts, USA | | mailto:carl.friend@stoneweb.com | | | http://www.ultranet.com/~engelbrt/carl/museum | ICBM: N42:22 W71:47 | |________________________________________________|_____________________|

27 years, 11 months

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AT&T 6300's

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 12:42 PM 6/12/98 -0700, you wrote: >> Found a stack of AT&T computers. Some are labelled "PC 6300" (The unix PC, >> iirc?) but others are marked "6300 WGS", a designation I've not heard of > >The 6300 WGS (Work Group Server) was a tower cased system that was not These were (I'm pretty sure) desktops, almost identical to the PC 6300's, only wiht a cream colored front. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 11 months

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Mini-Monitors?

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 03:14 PM 6/12/98 -0400, you wrote: ><Does anyone know of a *cheap* source of a VGA-compatible display? What I ><looking for, especially, is low power usage, followed by compactness and ><portability. Thanks! > >I'm also interested in same and know someone that might like info. >There is a truck load of applications for a cheap/compact/lowpower >VGA display. > >Allison Geez, Allison, If I was a EE god like yourself, I'd grab me a coupla busted|older laptops and build an interface for the LCD screens. 8^) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 11 months

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New toy, HP Apollo 4500, and it's broken...

by jfedorko＠virtualadmin.com

Sounds vaguely familiar, I remember two versions of the 2100s one had a black front panel w/red lights, the other one had a beige front panel. They were the CPU of HP2000 timesharing systems. They were pretty neat for their time (mid-70s) and I did my first "on-line" programming on them. The earlier ones boot off of paper tape, then the new technology... mylar oooh! I don't remember if they ever got weaned off tape booting though. Once you logged in you were at the command line and in a basic interpreter. They introduced me to instant gratification programming vs. waiting a day or so for the cards and the printout to come back or having to wire boards. Oh, yea... if it's one of the older ones, when the big oil filled capacitor goes in one of the disk drives the vented panel provides for spectacular visuals! If you don't want it, please let me know the details on it. -----Original Message----- From: museum(a)techniche.com [SMTP:museum@techniche.com] Sent: Saturday, June 13, 1998 3:36 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Re: New toy, HP Apollo 4500, and it's broken... This is somewhat tangential, but I suspect whoever is reading about HP Apollo's may be able to contribute. I came across a rack mount system in the local surplus store. The faceplate reads "HP 2100c Programmable Microcomputer System". Any ideas what this is? Worth picking up? Jon >> >> <I got a apollo 4500. >> <It has a 68030 inside, and a 700-someodd meg MFM (?) harddisk. >> >> More likely SCSI (single 50pin cable) or EDSI (two cables like MFM). >> MFM drives topped out at 160mb or so, EDSI went to at least 400mb maybe >> higher. > >Definitely ESDI or SCSI. Although they could have had SMD or ESMD >as well. > >> >> <I have no idea what it runs. This one has a SummaSketch pad with it. >> <It was used for CAD stuff. >> >> Some kind of unix. > >Possibly, though the Apollo's ran Domain/OS which was Multics inspired >but later it went to BSD compatibility and looked like both Unix and >Multics. > >> >> Allison >> >> > >Actually, there are a lot of Apollo collectors out there and the video >card may be getable. The Apollos used 3C505's for ethernet and some other >Token ring interface. > >Bill > >+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ >| Bill/Carolyn Pechter | 17 Meredith Drive | Tinton Falls, New Jersey 07724 | >| 908-389-3592 | Save computing history, give an old geek old hardware. | >| pechter(a)shell.monmouth.com | >+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ >

27 years, 11 months

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ESDI disks

by mbg＠world.std.com

>More likely SCSI (single 50pin cable) or EDSI (two cables like MFM). >MFM drives topped out at 160mb or so, EDSI went to at least 400mb maybe >higher. ESDI, and I know they can handle higher capacity disks (though I can't speak to the actual limit) as I have several ESDI disks which are 770mb unformatted (about 668mb formatted). A couple of them are the Hitachi DK515-78. I also have some Maxtor drives, but I don't remember their designation. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry(a)zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg(a)world.std.com | | Digital Equipment Corporation | | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

27 years, 11 months

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Mini-Monitors?

by fauradon＠pclink.com

In Circuit Cellar this month there is an add from timeline inc. It has a 6" VGA LCD 640 X 480 Sanyo LMDK55-22 listed for $25. That is the only info given on the add. their phone number is (800) 872-8878 no web site :( Francois ------------------------------------------------------------- Visit the Sanctuary at: http://www.pclink.com/fauradon -----Original Message----- From: Rax <rax(a)warbaby.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Saturday, June 13, 1998 6:20 PM Subject: Re: Mini-Monitors? >>> <Does anyone know of a *cheap* source of a VGA-compatible display? What I >>> <looking for, especially, is low power usage, followed by compactness and >>> <portability. Thanks! >>> >>> I'm also interested in same and know someone that might like info. >>> There is a truck load of applications for a cheap/compact/lowpower >>> VGA display. >> >>At least small CGA and mono monitors have been cheap for a long time. >>Places that advertise in Electronics Now tend to have them for ~$30ish. >>They are usually open-frame. >> > >Also try Nuts & Volts magazine. Lots of ads from purveyors of all sorts of >goodies for the mad inventor that lurks inside each of us. > >R. > >-- > > > >Warbaby >The WebSite. The Domain. The Empire. >http://www.warbaby.com > >The MonkeyPool >WebSite Content Development >http://www.monkeypool.com > > Dreadlocks on white boys give me the willies. > > > > >

27 years, 11 months

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Magazine values

by nerdware＠laidbak.com

Hi, gang. I'm just curious what old electronic magazines are worth. I haven't been able to find them in a price guide -- I have all the PE Altair issues (including the 680) and would like to know if they are worth anything I need to worry about insuring. Don't get excited -- I'm not going to part with them. It's just that I've heard that they're worth some money and I'd like to know. Thanks Paul Braun NerdWare -- The History of the PC and the Nerds who brought it to you. nerdware(a)laidbak.com www.laidbak.com/nerdware

27 years, 11 months

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AT&T 6300's

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

Found a stack of AT&T computers. Some are labelled "PC 6300" (The unix PC, iirc?) but others are marked "6300 WGS", a designation I've not heard of before. In any case, is anyone interested in them? They're available at a good price. Condition unknown, possible monitors/keyboards, but dunno. Lemme know if I should pick 'em up. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 11 months

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Mini-Monitors?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Does anyone know of a *cheap* source of a VGA-compatible display? What I <looking for, especially, is low power usage, followed by compactness and <portability. Thanks! I'm also interested in same and know someone that might like info. There is a truck load of applications for a cheap/compact/lowpower VGA display. Allison

27 years, 11 months

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CP/M

by peacock＠simconv.com

+AD4-Did MP/M run on Z-80s? BTW, is there a reasonable chance the CP/M on +AD4-one micro w/5.25+ACI- disks be compatible with another with 5.25+ACI- disks, +AD4-i.e. my apple with a C-128? Also, if a computer can run CP/M 3 can it +AD4-run eariler versions? (Note i'm not talking about apps here). Yes, MP/M ran on the Z80 first, then on the 8086. A multi-user Z80 was no speed demon but it was cheap compared to a PDP-11. BTW, the very first initial release of MP/M was actually coded for 8080, the task dispatcher did not save the extra Z80 registers. I discovered it the hard way, reported it to DRI, they fixed it right away. Apparently whatever machine they used to test MP/M was 8080 or 8085 based. Compatibility on floppies was about nil, very very few disks could be moved from one machine to another. If anything, 5.25+ACI- compatibility was worse than 8+ACI- floppies. Any Z80 machine that could run V3 had all the hardware needed to run V2. CP/M V1 was designed only for 8+ACI- SSSD floppies, the BIOS didn't have the drive tables in it to support anything else. Jack Peacock

27 years, 11 months

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Hacked Mac and Other Systems

by foxnhare＠goldrush.com

I Remember a Computer Shopper (you know, back when there ware actually a few decent articles in it, as well as a ton of advertising) referred to those Mac Clones as 'HackIntoshes' Sounds appropriate to me... > From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com> > Subject: Re: Early Mac Clones > > >bit hard getting a mac into a pc case though, remember that macs have all > >the connectors on board, > > > >desie > > Can't be any worse than the people that put Atari's or Amiga's in a PC > case. I've seen a Atari TT030 in a PC Tower, and it's quite popular among > Amiga people to tower their A1200's. All it takes is some creative cabling. > > Zane I have a set of texts on making a "Tower 64" (bundling a Commodore 64, Ram Expansion, drives, etc. in a tower PC case) which I have been seriously considering, actually I think I'd prefer a Tower 128 myself. Larry -- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Larry Anderson - Sysop of Silicon Realms BBS (300-2400bd) (209) 754-1363 Visit my Commodore 8-Bit web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/commodore.html -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-

27 years, 11 months

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New toy, HP Apollo 4500, and it's broken...

by museum＠techniche.com

This is somewhat tangential, but I suspect whoever is reading about HP Apollo's may be able to contribute. I came across a rack mount system in the local surplus store. The faceplate reads "HP 2100c Programmable Microcomputer System". Any ideas what this is? Worth picking up? Jon >> >> <I got a apollo 4500. >> <It has a 68030 inside, and a 700-someodd meg MFM (?) harddisk. >> >> More likely SCSI (single 50pin cable) or EDSI (two cables like MFM). >> MFM drives topped out at 160mb or so, EDSI went to at least 400mb maybe >> higher. > >Definitely ESDI or SCSI. Although they could have had SMD or ESMD >as well. > >> >> <I have no idea what it runs. This one has a SummaSketch pad with it. >> <It was used for CAD stuff. >> >> Some kind of unix. > >Possibly, though the Apollo's ran Domain/OS which was Multics inspired >but later it went to BSD compatibility and looked like both Unix and >Multics. > >> >> Allison >> >> > >Actually, there are a lot of Apollo collectors out there and the video >card may be getable. The Apollos used 3C505's for ethernet and some other >Token ring interface. > >Bill > >+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ >| Bill/Carolyn Pechter | 17 Meredith Drive | Tinton Falls, New Jersey 07724 | >| 908-389-3592 | Save computing history, give an old geek old hardware. | >| pechter(a)shell.monmouth.com | >+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ >

27 years, 11 months

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CP/M

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Did MP/M run on Z-80s? BTW, is there a reasonable chance the CP/M on one micro w/5.25" disks be compatible with another with 5.25" disks, i.e. my apple with a C-128? Also, if a computer can run CP/M 3+ can it run eariler versions? (Note i'm not talking about apps here). >OK to fair. ;) It was file level password protection and required the >whole colume to be enabled for it. Security level was low though. If the >user could assemble and run a program they could write code to access the >disk directory and toggle the right bits and they had control. It was >aimed at captive applications where the user had limited resources and >could not get directly at the file system. Many of the things in CPM3 >are there to provice more direct compatability with MP/M. > >As to weird, no most of the additions they did were similar to the ZCPR >groups and other were doing in parallel and had sound basis. > >Allison > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 11 months

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Old Alpha's (OT)

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

Hi. Just wanted to know if anyone out here knows where I can get an old alpha... (real old). Ciao, Tim D. Hotze

27 years, 11 months

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New toy, HP Apollo 4500, and it's broken...

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<I got a apollo 4500. <It has a 68030 inside, and a 700-someodd meg MFM (?) harddisk. More likely SCSI (single 50pin cable) or EDSI (two cables like MFM). MFM drives topped out at 160mb or so, EDSI went to at least 400mb maybe higher. <I have no idea what it runs. This one has a SummaSketch pad with it. <It was used for CAD stuff. Some kind of unix. <The problem with it is, the video card appears to have died. <WHen I power the machine on (It has a VERY LARGE [21"] RGB monitor. Any <chance of me connecting it to a PC? It has 3 plugs, R G B, and expects <sync on green) and the monitor, I get garbage. The garbage is the same a it can be but I forget the modes required also you need a cable for it. Connecting to a PC is more trouble than its worth generally. Allison

27 years, 11 months

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CP/M

by allisonp＠world.std.com

Max, Please clip off the unwanted parts of the message. <><The CP/M 3+ manual says the syntax is drive:12345678.123;password. <><Maybe it's a weird DR thing. They tended to add weird stuff... < <So, how DID it work? OK to fair. ;) It was file level password protection and required the whole colume to be enabled for it. Security level was low though. If the user could assemble and run a program they could write code to access the disk directory and toggle the right bits and they had control. It was aimed at captive applications where the user had limited resources and could not get directly at the file system. Many of the things in CPM3 are there to provice more direct compatability with MP/M. As to weird, no most of the additions they did were similar to the ZCPR groups and other were doing in parallel and had sound basis. Allison

27 years, 11 months

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CP/M

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

So, how DID it work? > >Password protection? There wasn't any as part of CP/M. ><The CP/M 3+ manual says the syntax is drive:12345678.123;password. ><Maybe it's a weird DR thing. They tended to add weird stuff... > >You didn't say CPM3! If you say CPM it is assumed the more common v2.x >version. V2.x did not have passwords, V3.0 did. Obviously if this apple >cpm card has V3 disks it it was a very late one or someone went to some >trouble to port v3 to it. FYI: v3 was not widely popular. > >Allison > > > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 11 months

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Alloy Engineering tape drive

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<I have acquired the manuals, S100 controller, and cartridge tape <drive, but not the software, for an Alloy Engineering cartridge tape Alloy is still in business I believe. <This system came from a multi-user Concurrent CP/M 80286 system in the <early 80's. The system disk was pulled from the S-100 box when it was MID80s... the 286 on s100 was about 84-86ish. the earliest data I have >from intel is late 83 for the 286. good luck finding the software as it was never PD and alloy controllers where never that common that I've seen. Allison

27 years, 11 months

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FW: DEC WT/78?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Hugh Henderson <hendronicus(a)hotmail.com> <saginaw, MI USA - Friday, June 12, 1998 at 18:07:56 < <I rescued a Digital WT/78 word terminal with a Digital RX02 computer <attached. Ok, the WT78 is one of DECs early compact word processing systems. The CPU is the intersil 6100 (PDP-8 reduced to a chip). The RX02 is nto acomputer but a disk box and controller for 256k/512k 8" floppies. (others in that family are the DECmate, DECmateII and DECmateIII) < It does try to boot, but I don't have the system disk. I'd sure love <to see the beast run. The images for the disks(both WPS and OS/78) are on the net and you would need a system that can create 8" disks. Alternately someone that has a system with RX02 disks (they were used on PDP-8, PDP-11 systems). < What does it run? What kind of processors does it use? It has network <and modem connections. The primary processor that runs the OS is a varient of the PDP-8 family reduced to a single chip. The disk system has it's own processor but that is not user programmable. It _does_not_ have network connections. The idea of a network at that time was unrealistic for such a low end machine. The modem connection however is eaxactly that and could be used to connect the machine to a host for file transfers. <How do you use those, and what were they originally for? It was originally used for word processing running WPS78, it also runs OS/78 an older PDP-8 operating system that looks a tiny bit like DOS. Allison

27 years, 11 months

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Mini-Monitors?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<That's why my LCD panel sits in the box. :-( < <> There are (were?) a few vendors that made very nice single chip solutio <> for converting base VGA into something an LCD could use. <> <> Hitachi? < <Ooh! Does anyone have a relevant Hitachi data book? My assessment is that for the display I have to convert serial video (VGA) to two 4 bit parallel streams for a partitioned display is unrealistic. The next simpler option if to generate video directly in the form required for the display and that is also somewhat ponderous. I didn't see anyhting suitable on the Hitachi site. Allisom

27 years, 11 months

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CP/M

by allisonp＠world.std.com

Password protection? There wasn't any as part of CP/M. <The CP/M 3+ manual says the syntax is drive:12345678.123;password. <Maybe it's a weird DR thing. They tended to add weird stuff... You didn't say CPM3! If you say CPM it is assumed the more common v2.x version. V2.x did not have passwords, V3.0 did. Obviously if this apple cpm card has V3 disks it it was a very late one or someone went to some trouble to port v3 to it. FYI: v3 was not widely popular. Allison

27 years, 11 months

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FA: Various systems

by tomowad＠earthlink.net

> Auction services have their place, but I think that we on the list >should be given the "right of first refusal". If one of the list members has >something to sell, give the others a first crack, with some time limit (like >a week), before listing it on eBay or Haggle. Perhaps list subscribers who wish to list their items on an auction service could offer a discount to other subscribers (e.g. "Mention you saw this add on the Classic Computers mailing list and get 10% off."). This way the seller gets the higher prices of the auction services while at the same time offering an advantage to list subscribers. Tom Owad

27 years, 11 months

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Alloy Engineering tape drive

by peacock＠simconv.com

I have acquired the manuals, S100 controller, and cartridge tape drive, but not the software, for an Alloy Engineering cartridge tape drive. I have two manuals, the Interface Guide For the IDXS-100, and TIP (Tape Interchange Package) Operator's Guide, both dated 1981. The tape drive is an early 3M cartridge tape, capacity of about 14MB formatted. I also have a big box of backup tape cartridges. This system came from a multi-user Concurrent CP/M 80286 system in the early 80's. The system disk was pulled from the S-100 box when it was retired, and the original floppies are long gone. I figure if I can find either a Z80 or 8086 version of the TIP program I can get the system directory off the backup tapes. Does anyone know more about these tape drives? A binary of the TIP program? Jack Peacock

27 years, 11 months

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Mini-Monitors?

by peacock＠simconv.com

>There are (were?) a few vendors that made very nice single chip solutions >for converting base VGA into something an LCD could use. > >Hitachi? > Cirrus Logic made LCD controllers that would drive an LCD and also an external monitor. I have an older Compal TS-38 laptop with the chip, driving a dual scan color LCD, but with a switch to go to an external monitor.

27 years, 11 months

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IIRC

by fauradon＠pclink.com

I've seen Him/Them Beign flamed about it on some newsgroup (pretty funny too), other than that Have no idea. Francois ------------------------------------------------------------- Visit the Sanctuary at: http://www.pclink.com/fauradon -----Original Message----- From: Doug Yowza <yowza(a)yowza.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Thursday, June 11, 1998 11:56 PM Subject: Re: IIRC >On Thu, 11 Jun 1998, Francois wrote: > >> Well, "If I Recall Corectly" that's what it means. > >BTW, whatever happened to lisard/communa? The consistency with which >"they" used pronouns was impressive: IIRC -> iwrc. > >-- Doug >

27 years, 11 months

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WTB: GRiDPad 1912 parts

by higginbo＠netpath.net

Looking for the keyboard adapter, internal 2400 MNP modem w/jacks, the optional stand, just about anything that was available for it. - - john higginbotham ____________________________ - webmaster www.pntprinting.com - - limbo limbo.netpath.net -

27 years, 11 months

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IBM service rig?

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 11:13 PM 6/11/98 -0500, you wrote: >I just picked up an IBM type 9075 laptop. The label on the inside (where the >keyboard is) says it's an Aptek Personal Service Communicator II. It's got a The PC Radio. Take a look at <http://www.sinasohn.com/clascomp/pcradio.htm>; is yours the same? If so, do you have a power supply? I think I've got the info I have on the web page... It was designed for service people to communicate with the home office. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 11 months

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FW: Fellow wants a VAX, willing to pay...

by kyrrin＠jps.net

Except for MV3100's (he explicitly says no to them), this fellow's willing to pay real money for a cheap VAXen. If you can help, reply to him directly. Thanks. Attachment follows. -=-=- <snip> -=-=- From: Mark Tarka <tarka(a)earth.oscs.montana.edu> Newsgroups: comp.os.vms Subject: WTB small VAX system -- WA State Message-ID: <009C797D.53C8C87D.1(a)earth.oscs.montana.edu> Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 11:25:55 MDT Organization: Info-Vax<==>Comp.Os.Vms Gateway X-Gateway-Source-Info: Mailing List Lines: 9 Path: blushng.jps.net!news.eli.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!nntp.ntr.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.idt.net!nntp2.cerf.net!nntp3.cerf.net!mvb.saic.com!info-vax I will be in Western Washington State next week (6/16 to 6/22) on business (American Chemical Society regional meeting in the Tri-Cities). Is there anyone in the Spokane-Walla Walla-Yakima triangle with a small VAX to donate or sell ($200 or less)? No MV3100's, please. Mark -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272) http://table.jps.net/~kyrrin -- also kyrrin [A-t] Jps {D=o=t} Net Spam is bad. Spam is theft of service. Spam wastes resources. Don't spam, period. I am a WASHINGTON STATE resident. Spam charged $500.00 per incident per Chapter 19 RCW.

27 years, 11 months

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IIRC

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

27 years, 11 months

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Mini-Monitors?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<><Does anyone know of a *cheap* source of a VGA-compatible display? What <><looking for, especially, is low power usage, followed by compactness an <><portability. Thanks! At 5$ it's interesting to have as a spare assuming the shipping isn't over 20$. <>I'm also interested in same and know someone that might like info. <>There is a truck load of applications for a cheap/compact/lowpower <>VGA display. I should elaborate. I'm looking for a mono (or color) display that is very low power and size is not that important other than I need to be able to see 80charx24line text on it. Graphics are not required. While some CRTs can be under 10watts power my desire is an order of magnitude lower if possible. An LCD would be ideal but alas none are available (low cost) that have more than the basic LCD drivers. The DELL laptop LCD I have is typical of the MONO 640x480 displays and the "video" input is not like a crt in timing or signals. For example the display is really two 640x240 running in parallel with seperate video for each. Hand built logic to do that costs enough in power and design time to make it unappealing or no better than a good mono crt unless I resort to Gals/FPGAs (design effort and cost prohibitive for a one up). Allison

27 years, 11 months

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CP/M

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

I have started bringing home the expanded Apple II+. It has an external "Executive Peripheral Systems, Inc." keyboard, with program macro modules for Wordstar and Visicalc (great keyboard,if only it clicked), and the regular DuoDisk. I also brought home the DR CP/M card manual. The Apple II and floppies will be brought home next week. I was firstly thinking of putting this into a PC case, since the keyboard is external anyway. But I was reading the CP/M manual (pretty shallow), and it mentions a 16-user capability and password protection. How does this work and how secure is it? Also, would you say that the Z-80 was better than the 8088? It was certainly used much more... ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 11 months

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GRiD/PenExec questions

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

Someone had e-mailed me the pinouts for the AST PenExec (aka GRiD Convertable), but I lost them when my e-mail crashed. Whoever it was, could you be so kind as to resend them? Thanks! Also, the GRiD version was available with a 386 (2260) and 486 (2270). Does anyone know if there were also two AST versions? Thanks! --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 11 months

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CP/M

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Because if I use a baby AT case, it will take less space than the apple case. I will also be able to stick the floppy drive inside. >Why? > ><keyboard is external anyway. But I was reading the CP/M manual ><(pretty shallow), and it mentions a 16-user capability and password ><protection. > >Well the 16 user thing is not multiuser it's a way of diving up the >directory into 16 distinct areas as CP/M didn't have subdirectories. > >Password protection? There wasn't any as part of CP/M. The CP/M 3+ manual says the syntax is drive:12345678.123;password. Maybe it's a weird DR thing. They tended to add weird stuff... ><say that the Z-80 was better than the 8088? It was certainly used ><much more... > >Better... that's a relative term. It was cheaper to use, more software >available as it was fully upward compatable with the 8080 (and 8085) >that preceeded it and it was there before the 8088. Also as the 8088 >got faster the z80 also got faster and added a MMU. I can still build >a system using z80 for less than the 8088 and the z80 one will be easier >to program. If the program gets larger than fits in the 64k space then >the competition becomes a bit more fair. Still segmented space is pretty >ugly and a paged MMU on z80 is very easy to do. Or better yet a z180 >(64180) which is a z180 with MMU, 2 serial ports and a DMA all on one >chip (and still cheaper and faster than a bare 8088 in 1985). The z180 >also offered something the 8088 line never had which was a compatable >highly integrated version as the 8088 needed several parts around it to >use effectively and the '188 was an odd duck compared to the 8088. So >for the 8088 comparison the z80 was hard to dislodge. It really took the >386(32bits) to make a real impact. > >Z80 space was characterized as developing, it was inexpensive to develop >around, there were lots of similar and competing systems (both >a blessing and curse), tons of cheap to free software, offered sufficient >compute power and friendy to program in assembler. The only other chip >to be as persistant, easy to use and popular was the 6502. > >I might add that both were quite popular in the instrumentation and >control sytems field. > >Tidbit... the z80/z180 is still in production and the cmos z80s182 runs >at a screaming 20mhz internal clock (roughly 2-4mips processing speed) >and can come to a complete stop, using only microwatts of power in that >mode. I have a z180 at 9.8mhz and it's quite fast for text apps and is >usually waiting on the SCSI hard disk system (xybec/st251). > > >Allison > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 11 months

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Cyber 2000?

by william＠ans.net

OK, so it seems to be the last CDC machine, after the Cyber 180s. Does anyone have any information on these things? Any still in use? William Donzelli william(a)ans.net

27 years, 11 months

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CP/M

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<I was firstly thinking of putting this into a PC case, since the Why? <keyboard is external anyway. But I was reading the CP/M manual <(pretty shallow), and it mentions a 16-user capability and password <protection. Well the 16 user thing is not multiuser it's a way of diving up the directory into 16 distinct areas as CP/M didn't have subdirectories. Password protection? There wasn't any as part of CP/M. How does this work and how secure is it? Also, would you <say that the Z-80 was better than the 8088? It was certainly used <much more... Better... that's a relative term. It was cheaper to use, more software available as it was fully upward compatable with the 8080 (and 8085) that preceeded it and it was there before the 8088. Also as the 8088 got faster the z80 also got faster and added a MMU. I can still build a system using z80 for less than the 8088 and the z80 one will be easier to program. If the program gets larger than fits in the 64k space then the competition becomes a bit more fair. Still segmented space is pretty ugly and a paged MMU on z80 is very easy to do. Or better yet a z180 (64180) which is a z180 with MMU, 2 serial ports and a DMA all on one chip (and still cheaper and faster than a bare 8088 in 1985). The z180 also offered something the 8088 line never had which was a compatable highly integrated version as the 8088 needed several parts around it to use effectively and the '188 was an odd duck compared to the 8088. So for the 8088 comparison the z80 was hard to dislodge. It really took the 386(32bits) to make a real impact. Z80 space was characterized as developing, it was inexpensive to develop around, there were lots of similar and competing systems (both a blessing and curse), tons of cheap to free software, offered sufficient compute power and friendy to program in assembler. The only other chip to be as persistant, easy to use and popular was the 6502. I might add that both were quite popular in the instrumentation and control sytems field. Tidbit... the z80/z180 is still in production and the cmos z80s182 runs at a screaming 20mhz internal clock (roughly 2-4mips processing speed) and can come to a complete stop, using only microwatts of power in that mode. I have a z180 at 9.8mhz and it's quite fast for text apps and is usually waiting on the SCSI hard disk system (xybec/st251). Allison

27 years, 11 months

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CP/M

by peacock＠simconv.com

> But I was reading the CP/M manual (pretty shallow), and it mentions a 16-user capability and password protection. How does this work and how secure is it? Also, would you say that the Z-80 was better than the 8088? It was certainly used much more... > The "16 user" isn't really a multi-user capability. Unlike MS-DOS, Unix, VMS, etc., CP/M did not have subdirectories. The main directory was it, everything fit there. This was not so convenient, so "user areas" came into being with CP/M v2. The 16 users are actually numbered subdirectories. The "C> USER 5" command would switch you to subdirectory 5, equivalent to a "C> CD \DIR5" in DOS. The idea was if multiple people used the machine, each would have their own area. On V3 the user 0 area was a common directory, I think there were some commands to control this (very rusty on CP/M V3). I don't think CP/M V3 was ever implemented on the Apple card, since V3 was designed to use banked memory over 64K. As for 8088 vs. Z80, I would rate the 8088 as one step above the Z80. It was slower, but had a larger instruction set and a crude MMU built in, out to the 1MB limit so familiar today. The Z80 was a bit faster at the same clock rate, and the 8088 never got to a very high speed, IIRC it got to about 8 or 10Mhz in the Intel version, NEC sold variants out to 12Mhz. The Z80H was an 8Mhz part, it kept up with the 4.77Mhz original IBM quite well, except for the memory limitation. BTW, on S-100 systems the 8086 was far more common than the 8088, since the S-100 could support a real 16-bit bus. Zilog and Hitachi eventually extended the Z80 out to 512K and then 1MB with an MMU too, but it was never as flexible as the segment registers in the 8088. As far as design difficulty, using an 8088 or Z80 was about equal. The 8088 had a minimal mode for small designs, or support chipset for expanded systems. The Z80 took some random logic for the clock signal and needed some type of MMU if you needed more than 64K. Jack Peacock

27 years, 11 months

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I have a AC Adapter for Apple Portable

by webmaster＠pntprinting.com

Someone was looking for a Mac Portable PS? Too late for me. >X-Persona: <webmaster> >Return-Path: <rdeleon(a)newmax.dataflux.com.mx> >Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 18:33:03 +0000 >From: Rolando de Le?n <rdeleon(a)newmax.dataflux.com.mx> >Reply-To: rdeleon(a)newmax.dataflux.com.mx >Organization: MAC S.A. >To: webmaster(a)pntprinting.com >Subject: I have a AC Adapter for Apple Portable > >I have an AC Adapter *NEW* Apple Brand. have also a base for recharging >the battery outside of the computer. > >I Want $15 US Dlls. for it > >Please let me know. > > >Rolando de Leon >

27 years, 11 months

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Pre-Color Computer Terminal??

by archive＠navix.net

Woops... sorry, I didn't include my e-mail address, name, etc., on the header of my first e-mail here. Again, problems with my mail software and just some tempory settings. I'm really not anonomous, just appear to be on my last e-mail. Thanks, CORD COSLOR archive(a)navix.net -- ____________________________________________________________ | Cord G. Coslor : archive(a)navix.net |\ | Deanna S. Wynn : deannasue(a)navix.net | | | on AOL Instant Messenger: DeannaCord | | | http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/4395 | | |------------------------------------------------------------| | | PO Box 308 - Peru, NE - 68421 - (402) 872- 3272 | | |------------------------------------------------------------| | | If you don't have AOL (like us) but want a great instant | | | chat feature, just go to http://www.aol.com/aim | | |____________________________________________________________| | \_____________________________________________________________\|

27 years, 11 months

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Mini-Monitors?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Which reminds me of a hardware question: I can get lots of nice LCD <displays very cheap. How hard is it to convert one to a VGA display (or <even to convert an old laptop with built-in VGA controller to something <that will accept VGA input)? Reduce the number of variables and we may have a shot... I have one >from a dell laptop. It's rather interesting to drive and it ain't VGA or even mono! Allison

27 years, 11 months

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IIRC

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

What IS up with them? I don't get "their" reference to themselves in plural. Was it really a group? >On Thu, 11 Jun 1998, Francois wrote: > >> Well, "If I Recall Corectly" that's what it means. > >BTW, whatever happened to lisard/communa? The consistency with which >"they" used pronouns was impressive: IIRC -> iwrc. > >-- Doug > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 11 months

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Unix filenames and drum memory (was: Files as files)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<BTW, as a bit of trivia, a friend of mine who worked for the CIA in <Vietnam had the job of actually grinding off all the oxide on retired <disks and drums, so there would be no possibility of recovering data Along the same lines the A6 aircraft in the Vietnam era used a drum based computer for the bomb targetting computer... a 10g turn could really mess up the computer. Allison

27 years, 11 months

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Early Mac Clones

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

How does this soft-microcode thing work? Doesn't it imply that there is some kind of "sub-microcode" needed to load and process the soft one? Or was there a completely separate storage subsystem that booted first (which would essentially make it two computers)? Also, where was the microcode stored? Could you upgrade special "microcode cache" to store more complex microcode? Sounds pretty unusual! >and with a somewhat interesting design. > >The PERQ 1 was first sold in 1979 for (I think) $30000. For that you got >a personal computer (!) with about 1MIPS of computing power. You also got >a megabyte of memory, a bitmapped display (768*1024 points, portrait), >a blitter, a 20 bit CPU, a Z-80 based I/O processor, a hard disk, a >pointing device (normally a Sumagraphics bit pad 1), etc. Options >included networking (ethernet came out pretty soon after the first >machine) and a laser printer. > >All 'classic PERQs' (everything apart from the PERQ 3a) have a >soft-microcoded CPU that loads the microcode (and hence the instruction >set) from disk when the machine boots. Writing your own microcode is fun. >The PERQ 1a introduced the 16K CPU board with 4 times the control store >and other improvements (multiply/divide support, indexed addressing of >the _registers_) over the original 4K board. > >The PERQ 2's all had a revised I/O board with an extra serial port, >battery-backed real time clock and ethernet as standard. The multitasking >I/O software was only present on these boards AFAIK. You could add the >same I/O option boards to the PERQ 2's, so in theory you can have a PERQ >2 with 2 ethernet ports. > >Older PERQs were 20 bit. The rare PERQ 2T4 was 24 bit. > >If you're interested in finding out more, look at Bob Davis's PERQ web >page (a web search should find it). There's a number of text files there >which explain a few things. There's also a somewhat dead Usenet group, >alt.sys.perq, which would love some on-topic messages again :-). > >> here on the rebellious side of the Atlantic? (I know _nothing_ of > >They were a USA machine (3 Rivers Computer Corporation). But some bits >of the design were done by ICL in the UK, and they were sold by ICL. >They were also one of the standard machines supplied to UK universities, >which may explain why they're more common over here. > >> these machines beyond your messages, if I saw them advertised the >> references went into brain cells that have been foully murdered). > >> Ward Griffiths > >-tony > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 11 months

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FA: Various systems

by rcini＠email.msn.com

Auction services have their place, but I think that we on the list should be given the "right of first refusal". If one of the list members has something to sell, give the others a first crack, with some time limit (like a week), before listing it on eBay or Haggle. Just my $0.02. Rich Cini/WUGNET <nospam_rcini(a)msn.com> (remove nospam_ to use) ClubWin! Charter Member (6) MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking Preserver of classic computers ============================================

27 years, 11 months

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Unix filenames and drum memory (was: Files as files)

by yakowenk＠cs.unc.edu

On Thu, 11 Jun 1998, Doug Yowza <yowza(a)yowza.com> wrote: ] That used to be one of my interview questions for Unix programmers: your ] buggy program just created a filename with {control characters, leading ] dash (-), leading slash (/), '*', etc} in it. How do you delete it? Oh shoot. And I thought I was Unix-competent. I thought the only way to put a slash in a filename was with a low-level filesystem hack. I mean, the OS calls themselves will take "a/b" to mean file "b" in directory "a", right? It isn't up to your program to parse the filename that way. That isn't something you can get get around, even with any ordinary sort of bug. Is it? Of course, given root permission, you could run the appropriate disk utility, open /dev/root as a file, find the directory block, and put anything you like in a filename. But then you would have to do the same thing to access that file or get rid of it, wouldn't you? How could 'rm' get around that? ObCC: I just noticed /dev/drum on a Dec here. Now I *know* there is not a drum on this thing, so this must be a holdover from some earlier implementation of some Unix. True? Were filesystems on drums managed the same as those on disks? I don't see any reason why they wouldn't be, offhand. But I thought drums died out before Unix appeared. Does anyone still have a functional magnetic drum memory? That would be one _awesome_ peripheral. :-) Bill.

27 years, 11 months

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Unix filenames and drum memory (was: Files as files)

by franke＠sbs.de

> ObCC: I just noticed /dev/drum on a Dec here. Now I *know* there > is not a drum on this thing, so this must be a holdover from some > earlier implementation of some Unix. True? Were filesystems on > drums managed the same as those on disks? I don't see any reason > why they wouldn't be, offhand. But I thought drums died out before > Unix appeared. Does anyone still have a functional magnetic drum > memory? That would be one _awesome_ peripheral. :-) No, no functional drum, but I own _parts_ of a drum from an SIEMENS 2002 - this wasn't a storage drum like later on, this computer stored the (working) REGISTERS on the drum (Background: the 2002 was the first fully transistorized computer). Thats prior to core memory tek. Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

27 years, 11 months

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Heathkit replacement manuals

by dcoward＠pressstart.com

I just received the H-11a manuals that I ordered last week from the Heathkit's manual replacement service and I just wanted to let any one who is looking for old Heathkit manual know how I made out. I'm very happy with the manuals I received! First I ordered just the Assembly and the Operations manuals. One was $35 (I think) and the other was $45. After I hung up I realized that I had not asked about any schematics or illustration booket that usually comes with these manuals. (By the way, I asked about any EC-1 manuals and she said I was the fifth person to ask about those in the last week, no they don't any manuals for the EC-1) I received the Assembly manual and the Illustration Booket xeroxed DOUBLE sided on 11"x17" paper (also folded but not stapled). The Assembly manual did not have the traditional brown jacket, but I could take one off an old color TV assembly manual. I also received one schematic of the chassis power supply, front panel, and backplane on what seen to be about 20"x25" paper. (It does not look like it's been reduced in size). The Operation manual is about 3/4" thick and most likely came originally in a loose leaf binder. It is xeroxed again double sided and on 8 1/2" x 11" paper. (You can see were the 3 holes were punched) In their letter with the manuals they state that the manuals are nonreturnable but they will "attempt to correct any problem with the quality of the copy". I found they friendly, helpful, and fast. Their number is 616-925-5899 The only problem I've seen so far is with thw xray views of the circuit boards, the RED circuit traces on the foil side of the board do not xerox at all. ========================================= Doug Coward dcoward(a)pressstart.com Senior Software Engineer Press Start Inc. Sunnyvale,CA Curator Museum of Personal Computing Machinery http://www.best.com/~dcoward/museum =========================================

27 years, 11 months

1
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Files as files

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jun 11, 23:25, Doug Yowza wrote: > On Fri, 12 Jun 1998, Pete Turnbull wrote: > > > And "rm -i *" prompts even with "-f". > > Not on Linux, at least. > > > AFAIK, all rm's have -r. > > I know -r is a fairly recent addition to "cp", but you may be right about > "rm". Anybody have a V1 system they can test on? :-) I wish :-) "-r" certainly was an option to "rm" in 7th Edition, and IIRC (see other thread :-)) "-i" overrides "-f" there too. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

27 years, 11 months

2
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IBM service rig?

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

Here's what IBM says about the 9075:

27 years, 11 months

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Unix filenames and drum memory (was: Files as files)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<> ObCC: I just noticed /dev/drum on a Dec here. Now I *know* there <> is not a drum on this thing, so this must be a holdover from some <> earlier implementation of some Unix. True? Were filesystems on <> drums managed the same as those on disks? I don't see any reason Drum is serial storage just like disks. What distinguished some drom is that ther stored words using multiple parallel heads making them very fast. On PDP-10 I used in 70/71 had a 128kw swapping drum used to hold the swap file. It's my understanding (and memory) it rotated at 1200 or 1800 rpm and stored 18 bit parallel words. I've also used a PDP-8 that had RS/RF08 disk that was structured like a drum with 12bit parallel access (32kw per platter). It was also quite fast. In all aspects durms and disks are the same thing. <> why they wouldn't be, offhand. But I thought drums died out before <> Unix appeared. Does anyone still have a functional magnetic drum <> memory? That would be one _awesome_ peripheral. :-) It didn't! <No, no functional drum, but I own _parts_ of a drum from <an SIEMENS 2002 - this wasn't a storage drum like later <on, this computer stored the (working) REGISTERS on the <drum (Background: the 2002 was the first fully transistorized <computer). Thats prior to core memory tek. Core predates transistors. The TX1 and TX2 were the mostly transistor machines that also had core. They had some tubes(valves) as the high current pulse drivers for the core drivers. I think Mark1 or Whirlwind (all tube) had core. Another use for drums was bit serial machines where register and main memory were serial in nature and stored on multiple tracks of the drum (or disk). Allison

27 years, 11 months

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Unix filenames and drum memory (was: Files as files)

by peacock＠simconv.com

True? Were filesystems on drums managed the same as those on disks? I don't see any reasonwhy they wouldn't be, offhand. But I thought drums died out before Unix appeared. I last used a drum on a Univac 1106 (FASTRAND II), the file system was the same as a disk drive. A drum is just a 2 dimensional disk, track and sector but no head select. Univac had fixed head drums and moving head drums, don't recall the capacity (it wasn't all that big). The drums on the 1106 were retired in 1971 when it was upgraded to a dual processor 1108 with a room full of short stack disk drives (20MB packs). Good thing too, the reliability on the drum wasn't so great, heads would often get out of alignment, you would suddenly have half of your file and half of someone else's. BTW, as a bit of trivia, a friend of mine who worked for the CIA in Vietnam had the job of actually grinding off all the oxide on retired disks and drums, so there would be no possibility of recovering data >from them. Might be one reason they are so scarce now. Jack Peacock

27 years, 11 months

1
0
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Mini-Monitors?

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

Does anyone know of a *cheap* source of a VGA-compatible display? What I'm looking for, especially, is low power usage, followed by compactness and portability. Thanks! --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 11 months

3
2
0 0

Pre-Color Computer Terminal??

by a＠aol.com

Greets! I was wondering if anyone might have any information on an old machine produced by Tandy/Radio Shack. It came out _prior_ to the Color Computer, but it looked like a CoCo. However, it was a modified with a phone jack in the back for a TV/monitor and ran off of a 6809E (???). It basically was a videotext terminal of some sort. If anyone might have some information on this little unit, your help in learning more about it, and it's purposes, and maybe some history on it, would be much appreciated. Oh, yeh... an off-topic question? Is this text formatted correctly. I had some problems with my mail software and had it completely messed up trying to fix the original problem. Anyway, let me know if the text is going off the right of your screen or whatever, and if my signature box at the bottom of the page is formatted ok, ok? If it is, great! If something's wrong, feel free to send a private e-mail back to me to let me know ok? Thanks, CORD COSLOR -- ____________________________________________________________ | Cord G. Coslor : archive(a)navix.net |\ | Deanna S. Wynn : deannasue(a)navix.net | | | on AOL Instant Messenger: DeannaCord | | | http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/4395 | | |------------------------------------------------------------| | | PO Box 308 - Peru, NE - 68421 - (402) 872- 3272 | | |------------------------------------------------------------| | | If you don't have AOL (like us) but want a great instant | | | chat feature, just go to http://www.aol.com/aim | | |____________________________________________________________| | \_____________________________________________________________\|

27 years, 11 months

1
0
0 0

online support (was: old laptop BIOS???)

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 08:27 AM 6/10/98 +0000, you wrote: >> I've found Toshiba's on-line support for their older machines to be >> excellent; I wouldn't be surprised at all to find that the setup pgm was >> available on their web site. Definitely worth checking out. > >True, I know but that is very flimsy. Toshiba can decide to pull >those files off, never know. Yes, Toshiba could yank the files from their site, but unless they went out of business (not likely) why would they? Doesn't cost them anything (coupla meg of hd space) to keep them there. Probably more expensive (people time) to get rid of them. An incredibly valuable marketing tool for very little (or no) cost. Because of what I found there, I would definitely consider a Toshiba laptop. >else. IBM, Gateway what you have that have long term service I wouldn't touch a Gateway computer to save my life. I've got a Gateway 2000 Colorbook that my sister uses. I sent them an e-mail to simply ask what models hard drive they used (I got some empty sleds, and my hard drives didn't fit) and if they still sell sleds/hard drives for it. Was told they didn't know, didn't care, not interested. Suggested a couple of places that sell used GW2K stuff. I have a long-standing loathing of IBM, though I must admit some of their more recent laptops look pretty nice. (Can't stand the damn erasers, though.) They do seem to be pretty good about offering support and info on older machines. Basically, if a company isn't interested in helping out with their older (sometimes much older) machines, I'm not interested in their new machines, simply because whatever I buy today I'll still be using when it qualifies for this list. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 11 months

6
5
0 0

Files as files

by peacock＠simconv.com

> But the VAX-philopsophy was extreme CISC, and that extended to the VAX/VMS filesystem as well: record-based, with a zillion different file attributes, built-in file versioning, etc. It was hierarchial, but mixed with a clunky "volume" concept (something like DOS "C:", but with longer names). I wouldn't call it "clunky". In fact with VMS you can combine drives into a volume set if you want the filesystem spread across multiple drives, or you can treat each drive as an isolated filesystem. As a system admin, I prefer the separate volumes, makes it easier to manage overnight backups. In our VMScluster individual disks are backed up in parallel across several tape drives (as many as four tapes in operation at the same time, depending on day of week), a trivial task in VMS but a bit more elaborate on a Unix system. As for the RMS file attributes and versioning, they are a dream for programmers, compared to PC or Unix systems. We have NT or W95 workstations at every desk, but we still keep a VMScluster running, partly for financial apps, and partly for coding. When you start dealing with larger apps (i.e 3K-5K users per week, 300-500 at any one time in a 24 hour day, all accessing the same files) you start to appreciate what VMS can do. BTW, one nice advantage of filesystem per disk is drive shadowing in VMS. You can mirror two drives during the day, then break the set, remount the mirrored drive as a separate disk, back it up, then reconnect it back to the shadow set. Instant snapshot backup without shutting down applications, all the database files are intact as of the moment you broke the shadow set, no updates during the backup. Jack Peacock

27 years, 11 months

3
2
0 0

IIRC

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

I've seen him/her/them/it post on alt.folklore.computers about several topics recently, IIRC. david In a message dated 98-06-12 00:56:28 EDT, you write: << BTW, whatever happened to lisard/communa? The consistency with which "they" used pronouns was impressive: IIRC -> iwrc. -- Doug >>

27 years, 11 months

1
0
0 0

Bit slices?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<On Thu, 11 Jun 1998, R. Stricklin (kjaeros) wrote: < <> I suppose a better way of asking that is how is a 'bit sliced' processo <> or ALU differentiated from a 'normal' one? The concept was to take a vertical slice of the core of most cpus and make it so they can be cascaded to the needed width. Some of the common parts were the 3101 (intel 2 bit slice) and the 6701/2901 4 bit slices. Their advantages were speed, they were bipolar and in the 70 to early 80s you could make a z80 equivelent using them that was 10mhz and piplined. Or a custom 20 bit machine. <BTW, I mentioned a while back that I wrote a simulation of a PDP-8 built <from 2901's. I finally found the source code for everything but the <assembler (but I did find a grammar spec). It's not in good enough shap <to "publish", and I don't plan to spend the time to get it there, but if <anybody wants a copy, let me know and I'll send you source. (It's <curses-based, and should run fine on any Unix or DOS box). I'd love to see that... I have a big bunch of 2901s doing nothing. Allison

27 years, 11 months

2
1
0 0

FW: VAX Manuals available

by kyrrin＠jps.net

Found the following on Usenet. Please contact this guy directly if interested. -=-=- <snip> -=-=- From: "Joe Huber" <jhuber(a)anet-dfw.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec Subject: need to get rid of Vax manuals Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 17:07:50 -0500 Organization: ANET Internet Services Lines: 16 Message-ID: <6ln059$8o0$1(a)news1.anet.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: dal-vd1-112.anet-dfw.com X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Path: blushng.jps.net!news.eli.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!4.1.16.34!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!news.mathworks.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!news1.anet.com!not-for-mail I have a nearly complete set of VAX/VMS 5.5-2 manuals in 3-ring binder format. There are also bound manuals for DecForms (still in the plastic wrapper), DecPrinting services, several other things. I sold my VAX but the buyer did not want the manuals. I hate to throw them out. I'll "sell" them for the cost of shipping. Please respond via email if interested. Thanks! -- Joe Huber jhuber(a)anet-dfw.com -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272) http://table.jps.net/~kyrrin -- also kyrrin [A-t] Jps {D=o=t} Net Spam is bad. Spam is theft of service. Spam wastes resources. Don't spam, period. I am a WASHINGTON STATE resident. Spam charged $500.00 per incident per Chapter 19 RCW.

27 years, 11 months

1
0
0 0

FW: FREE IBM System/38 needs rescue!

by kyrrin＠jps.net

A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 1652 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980611/6999ffc5/at…

27 years, 11 months

1
0
0 0

IIRC

by fauradon＠pclink.com

Well, "If I Recall Corectly" that's what it means. Francois ------------------------------------------------------------- Visit the Sanctuary at: http://www.pclink.com/fauradon -----Original Message----- From: Marvin <marvin(a)rain.org> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Thursday, June 11, 1998 11:29 PM Subject: IIRC >Somehow, I should probably already know what IIRC stands for, but can >someone enlighten me please. I should have asked years ago :). >

27 years, 11 months

2
1
0 0

Spotted: PDP 11-23 stuff for sale

by bill_r＠inetnebr.com

The usual disclaimers apply... >In enclosed 19" rack with metal door. 50" x 26" x 30" > >PDP 11-23+ Comm interface PCB's and 2 RL02 drives. > >Was running prod line when de-installed. > >Equipment is located in the metro Atlanta Ga area. > >Email offers.... > > Dick Perron >http://www.randomc.com/~dperr/pc_hdwe.htm >dperr(a)randomc.com > >"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't.....will happen." -Bill Richman bill_r(a)inetnebr.com http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r (Home of the COSMAC Elf Simulator!)

27 years, 11 months

1
0
0 0

Files as files

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jun 11, 13:43, Doug Yowza wrote: > On Thu, 11 Jun 1998, Pete Turnbull wrote: > > Quickest general method is "rm -i *", though you may sometimes need > > "rm -i .*" instead/as well. It doesn't matter for "rm" since it won't delete directories unless you add "-r" but for some other commands , "xx .?*" may be preferable to "xx .*". > If you had a file named "-f" in your directory, then "rm -i *" would > happily delete all of the files in the directory without prompting you. > > "rm -i ./*" would be better, but would not work for files with control > characters or spaces. It does on SystemV-based systems, and others I've tried. And "rm -i *" prompts even with "-f". > If you wanted to stick with the "-i" approach, then "cd .. ; rm -r -i dir" > would be the best bet (assuming your rm had a -r option to recurse). AFAIK, all rm's have -r. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

27 years, 11 months

2
1
0 0

IBM service rig?

by nerdware＠laidbak.com

Hi guys. I just picked up an IBM type 9075 laptop. The label on the inside (where the keyboard is) says it's an Aptek Personal Service Communicator II. It's got a 9.5" monochrome screen, a built-in thermal printer, what appears to be a modem jack, a screw-on (not BNC) rf-type jack, a socket for a pcmcia-type RAM card, and what appears to be a breakout box connector on the back. No floppy. Is this a field service terminal? If not, just what the heck is it? Thanks. Paul Braun NerdWare -- The History of the PC and the Nerds who brought it to you. nerdware(a)laidbak.com www.laidbak.com/nerdware

27 years, 11 months

1
0
0 0

Files as files

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

OK, I never got this "object" stuff, it's kinda confusing because it tends to make much ado about nothing (in poor implementations, yes, but I've only seen poor ones, the Newton being very hard to understand in terms of how to use). As for VMS file attribs does anyone know how many there actually were? I counted the attribs Norton DiskEdit lets me change on the Mac (bundle, locked, bozo, init, etc.), and there are at least 30. >> DOS in terms of having an array of blocks and stuff. Except Apple's >> is quite a bit more elegant. Since some people here are fond of >> praising the VAX, how does its file system work (typically)? > >The Newton "soup" is an object store rather than a directory hierarchy, >and you'll probably see that paradigm more often in the future. I think >Microsoft's "Cairo" road-map included turning the filesystem into an >object store. > >"VAX" is a hardware architecture. Lots of people run Unix on VAXen. >But the VAX-philopsophy was extreme CISC, and that extended to the VAX/VMS >filesystem as well: record-based, with a zillion different file >attributes, built-in file versioning, etc. It was hierarchial, but mixed >with a clunky "volume" concept (something like DOS "C:", but with longer >names). > >-- Doug > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 11 months

2
1
0 0

WeirdStuff PCjr

by dcoward＠pressstart.com

>Hardly. There were plenty of those made too. I've got at least 5 now, >and I just added one today from the WeirdStuff sealed bid auction (I >couldn't resist, it came with some cool carthridges including Imagic's >Demon Attack [who knew Imagic made carts for the PCjr!?] and an >internal PCjr modem). >Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com I'm glad you mentioned that. One of the pallets I got had a PCjr power supply on it. Did yours come with one? [who knew Imagic made carts for the PCjr!?] That's still not as cool as my two cartridge set of Lotus 123 for the PCjr. ========================================= Doug Coward dcoward(a)pressstart.com Senior Software Engineer Press Start Inc. Sunnyvale,CA Curator Museum of Personal Computing Machinery http://www.best.com/~dcoward/museum =========================================

27 years, 11 months

1
0
0 0

Final Xerox Star demo

by yowza＠yowza.com

>Xerox PARC is giving one final demonstration of the original Xerox Star >workstation built in 1981. This may be the last time it gets >demoed, as the hardware has begun failing due to its age. Don't miss >this opportunity to witness one of the most important steps ever taken in the >history of computing and user interface design. > > Final Demo of the Xerox Star Workstation > 5:30 to 7:00pm > Wednesday June 17th > Auditorium Xerox PARC > > > Unquestionably, one of the major design innovations of this century >has been the Graphical User Interface, with its desktop, icons, pop-up >and pull-down menus and ubiquitous windows. The explosion of computer usage >in the last decade has in large part been made possible through this simpler >and more direct method of user interaction. > > Though millions of people around the world are now using GUIs, few >outside of the Human/Computer Interaction field or the Silicon Valley >are aware of the history of the its design prior to the introduction >of the Macintosh in 1984. > > The first GUI ever developed was the work of Dr. Douglas Englebart, >a researcher at SRI (the Stanford Research Institute in Menlo Park, CA) in the >mid-1960s. His visionary and pioneering design and prototypes succeeded in >producing the world's first screen-based windows, cursor-selectable pop-up >menus, as well as the mouse with which to interact with them. > > Though these innovations were truly revolutionary, it was not until >a decade later when researchers at the Xerox Palo Alto Research Center (PARC) >began systematically studying this system in a commericial development effort. >The Xerox Alto personal computer workstation was developed in the late 70's >and included a mouse pointing system. This system influenced later systems >such as Bravo, which was developed at Xerox PARC by Bruce Lampson and included >an integrated editor formatter. Later systems included Markup, Draw, and Star. > > Xerox Palo Alto Research Center (PARC) has been a cradle of Silicon >Valley innovation for 25 years. Its research spans domains from atoms >to anthropology, from its solid-state physics lab, which develops new >laser diodes for use in printers and copiers, to the group that studies >work practices and their possible impact on current and future products. > > Located in the Stanford University Industrial Park in the heart of >Silicon Valley, PARC was charged upon its founding in 1970 to the >"architect of the information age". Since then it has delivered into >use such significant pieces of the current information infrastructure >as laser printers, graphical user interfaces, object-oriented >programming languages, and Ethernet local area networks. PARC has >contributed to user interfaces, electronic components, embedded >software and architectures for each new line of Xerox copiers, >printers, and systems reprographics products. > > > > Directions to Xerox PARC > >>From Highway 101, take the Oregon Expressway exit west 2 miles to >El Camino Real. Oregon Expressway becomes Page Mill Road at El Camino. Follow >Page Mill Road 1.7 miles to Coyote Hill Road (no light) and turn left. Coyote >Hill Road is just past the intersection with >Foothill Expressway. Go one-half mile and PARC will be on your left. >Follow the signs to the auditorium. > >>From Interstate 280, take the Page Mill Road exit. Go east one mile >to Coyote Hill Road (no light) and turn right. Go one-half mile and >PARC will be on your left. Follow the signs to the auditorium.

27 years, 11 months

5
6
0 0

Files as files

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<is quite a bit more elegant. Since some people here are fond of <praising the VAX, how does its file system work (typically)? Vax is hardware. VMS is an OS. Unix also run on vax. VMS is a fairly conventional albeit complex file system that can do sequential, indexed or random accesses. It deals with files, directories and volumes. <>contiguity). This made file access *fast* when you needed it. I still <>find fragmentation a nightmare even on Linux. Some file systems do more poorly than others with fragmentation. For the best fragmentation is a mild performance hit, in that it will take more disk seeks to find all the peices. For others (RT-11, NS*DOS) you can have an almost empty disk that is effectively full as the OS cannot allocate space peicemeal. VMS, DOS and CP/M perform well with fragmented files. Allison

27 years, 11 months

1
0
0 0

Mac Portable Power Supply

by higginbo＠netpath.net

On the bottom of the Mac Portable I have sitting right here, it says 7.5v 2.0a. The injection molded plastic never lies... or does it? This is a model 5120, non-backlit. Maybe the backlit version took 1.5a? At 05:45 PM 6/11/98 PDT, Max Eskin wrote: >Again, the original was 1.5a, which was not enough to power the >machine w/a dead battery. 2.0a came w/ the first powerbook, and works >fine. >(didn't I find this out on this list over a year ago?) - - john higginbotham ____________________________ - webmaster www.pntprinting.com - - limbo limbo.netpath.net -

27 years, 11 months

1
0
0 0

Early Mac Clones

by tomowad＠earthlink.net

>Powder Blue Computers >Akkord Technologies each used Mac 128k ROMs >Colby: >WalkMac SE -- $3999 >WalkMac SE 30 -- $6699 > >Dynamic: (around for a few years) >Dynamac Plus $4995 >Dynamac SE 30 - $7954 > >Outbound Anybody have any of these? Any experience with them. I would love some further information. >The bit on Outbound shocked me, it seems they were actually working with >Apple. To quote the 2nd edition: "While Outbound continues to floursh-thanks to a wisely-forged legal agreement and clever positioning of their Macintosh portable versus the Apple PowerBooks-I question their long-term staying power." Tom Owad

27 years, 11 months

4
3
0 0

Clueless Museums (was: Final Xerox Star demo)

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

>Having creative thoughts is not something (IMHO) that can be taught. Some >people just suddenly think 'Wouldn't it be neat if...' or 'We can do it >like this...'. Of course having a good understanding of the subject, and >know what's been done before help a lot here. And that's were classic >computers come in (to bring this back on topic!) I thought this was on topic anyway... >> <faultfinding/repair can be done by almost anybody. Well, having done >> <both, I personally find them equally difficult. Perhaps that means I'm >> <no good at it, but... >> >> Troubleshooting is a very complex process that I've never been able to >> teach to anyone but those that naturally could. For me troubleshooting > >The point is, in the UK at least, designers tend to get much better pay, >and are more highly regarded than repairmen. This I think is wrong, but this >list is not the place for that rant. In general, I've found that things like TVs are almost never repaired, at least in the US. Back in the USSR, we repaired everything, including alarm clocks destroyed by trashy batteries that leaked. >I'm not good at troubleshooting, and I could never (for example) repair >TV sets for money. But I've never yet let a fault beat me. It may take me >weeks to solve it, but I'll spend those weeks to sort out a machine. Do you mean you've never left a problem unsolved or never left a machine broken? >> But working with field circus underscored that thinking is not something >> you can mandate. Isn't there some kind of qualification these guys have to pass? Still, I can imagine a 20-year old pizza-eating moron who takes a job like this just to tell his girlfriend, "Hey! I'm a COMPUTER SERVICE TECHNICIAN!"... > >-tony > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 11 months

8
8
0 0

Mac Portable Power Supply

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Again, the original was 1.5a, which was not enough to power the machine w/a dead battery. 2.0a came w/ the first powerbook, and works fine. (didn't I find this out on this list over a year ago?) > >At 04:25 PM 6/11/98 -0700, Uncle Roger wrote: >>At 12:42 PM 6/11/98 PDT, you wrote: >>>I was wondering if anyone had a Mac Portable power supply, and wanted to >>>sell it cheap. >> >>Just get a (iirc) 7.5v PS with appropriate connector/polarity. > >- >- john higginbotham ____________________________ >- webmaster www.pntprinting.com - >- limbo limbo.netpath.net - > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 11 months

1
0
0 0

Mac Portable Power Supply

by higginbo＠netpath.net

Gotta be 2.0a though, at least that's what it says on the bottom of the unit. At 04:25 PM 6/11/98 -0700, Uncle Roger wrote: >At 12:42 PM 6/11/98 PDT, you wrote: >>I was wondering if anyone had a Mac Portable power supply, and wanted to >>sell it cheap. > >Just get a (iirc) 7.5v PS with appropriate connector/polarity. - - john higginbotham ____________________________ - webmaster www.pntprinting.com - - limbo limbo.netpath.net -

27 years, 11 months

1
0
0 0

New Finds this week

by jrkeys＠concentric.net

>Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 19:10:55 -0500 >To: clasic >From: "John R. Keys Jr." <jrkeys(a)concentric.net> >Subject: New Finds this week > >Well it's been slow since I got back from vacation but I found a couple good items: >1) Freeze Frame cartridge for the C64, has four dip switches 1&2 work the freeze frame and 3&4 are printer configuration for 4 different printers. Neat never seen or heard of this unit before. cost 10 cent at thrift. >2) Manual set for the LA50 printer all of them for 50 cent. >3) ICmemories manual from 1980 covering HITACHI #HLN100 25 cent >4) Freedom ONE terminal manual 25 cent >5) ACER710 user's guide 1987 25 cent >6) DisplayStation 88kp6 for $35 >7) Socrates program manual 11 cent >8) Commodore model 1541-II/1571-II/1581 power supply free >9) TRS80 Deluxe RS-232 program pak cat. 26-2226 with cable free >10) HP 2382A kb 1.00 >11) Tecmar tape unit for early Mac's only has two 9pin serial ports in back 1.00 not tested yet still had a cartridge in it. >12) and best for last a 'Starlet' Nec Portable computer model PC-8401A-LS that works off of 4 c batteries. No power came with it, cost $10. It has CP/M 2.2 in ROM from DRI 1982; Bios date is ver 1.0 1984; has a built in modem 300/1200; software in rom is WS, CALC, TELCOM, and FILER. This baby powers up very fast and seems work very well. I even put in some PIP commands. >Well that's it for now hope to have busy weekend lots of auction going on. Keep Computing John

27 years, 11 months

1
0
0 0

CP/M software (was: Former Disk Costs)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<> It should be different as Knuth's was written in C and tex is asm or pl < ^^^^^^^^^^^^ <Since when? The source code for TeX that I have here, and the version <that's printed in Volume B of 'Computers and Typesetting' is written in <Web Working versions (or pascal). I've never seen a web compiler. <> code. No credit given and. It's a simpler version circa 1978 and the <> putput formats are oriented toward character printers. < <Can it handle the standard TeX tests (even old versions of them)? If not, <it's not TeX, by definition. Likely not, never tried it's stripped some. It was also used to push the idea of device independent page descritpions that were capable of text and graphics. One product that came from that was RETOS (ReGIS to Sixel) translator. I later modified fancyfont as part of runoff to give font capable runoff with bitmap output. It could really give a disk a workout. Allison

27 years, 11 months

4
5
0 0

Final Xerox Star demo

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 01:04 PM 6/11/98 -0700, you wrote: >> >> Final Demo of the Xerox Star Workstation >> >> 5:30 to 7:00pm I'm really hoping to be there, but I still have to figure out how to get >from Walnut Creek at 5pm to Palto Alo at 5:30... >Francisco Bay Area or some subset thereof) get together on the second >Wednesday of each month for dinner, yakking, bragging about our latest >k00l f1nd5, waving our appendages at each other and so forth. Sounds Ooh, I *love* waving my appendages, especially my phelanges! Only, Wednesdays, esp. the second wed are not good... Make it the second Thursday and you've got a deal. 8^) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 11 months

1
0
0 0

Mac Portable Power Supply

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 12:42 PM 6/11/98 PDT, you wrote: >I was wondering if anyone had a Mac Portable power supply, and wanted to >sell it cheap. Just get a (iirc) 7.5v PS with appropriate connector/polarity. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 11 months

1
0
0 0

IBM 700 Laptop Significance?

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 08:13 PM 6/10/98 -0500, you wrote: >It's not even classic yet: > >GRID INTROS FIRST MS-DOS LAPTOP WITH BUILT-IN POINTER >BOSTON, MASSACHUSETTS, U.S.A., 1990 >AUG 16 (NB) > -- Grid Systems Corporation has introduced the GridCase 1550sx, the first >PC-compatible lapto... Well, that just means it won't be priced outragiouslt on ebay. 8^) Definitely significant, though. >a mouse. I hate mice, and hate track-balls and other stationary pointers >only slightly less, but I *love* IBM's eraser head. Some people see this I agree in theory, but disagree with your conclusion. (Can't stand the eraser.) >A mouse requires you to remove your hands from the keyboard and switch [...] >if I have to move a stupid pointer across the screen, the eraser head >let's me keep most of my fingers on keys where they belong. Yes, but so does a trackball or trackpad centered below the keyboard (which is one of the main reasons I bought my current laptop.) Best of all, IMO is the tootsie-roll from the Outbound. Mostly, however, I stick to keyboard commands (my one complaint about the MacOS -- you can't pull down menus and such from the keyboard). I strongly feel that anything you want to do should be doable from the keyboard -- if you're willing to remember how. (Example: in MS Word, there is a keyboard command to set bold/underline/etc. If I used Word a lot, and used bold/underline/etc a lot, I would remember it. Instead, for the few times I do that, I don't mind using the mouse. On the other hand, I can do just about anything in Eudora without using a mouse-thingie.) I do use a trackball -- a Logitech Trackman Marble. It's comfortable, accurate, and simply works great. The advantage of a trackball/other over a mouse is that on a mouse, when you click, you are also moving (however slight) the moving part. With a trackball, you can take your thumb completely off the ball before clicking. And I'll shut up now lest I get flames for mumbling off-topic too much. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 11 months

1
0
0 0

Dash 030 (was: Early Mac Clones)

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 12:57 AM 6/11/98 +0000, you wrote: >> nice servers for their time, with great cases. > >As for the rest.. smile when you say it, some of us still run IIx's and >IIfx's. :-) Sorry, what I meant was, at the time they came out, they were top-of-the-line. Today, with the advances since, they are simply great servers. (And, when I get the time to set it up, I fully intend to put one to use as a server for the Macs in Rachel's classroom.) >Seriously, though, there is an article on one of the MacTimes sites >which argues for using an older system as a server. Basically, it Also, if all you're doing is internet stuff, an older IIci or basic '486 is just fine. But that sort of thing that got a lot of us on this list in the first place. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 11 months

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Bit slices?

by red＠bears.org

Hej allesammen; What's a 'bit slice'? Are they served with a twist of lemon? I suppose a better way of asking that is how is a 'bit sliced' processor or ALU differentiated from a 'normal' one? ok r.

27 years, 11 months

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Clueless Museums (was: Final Xerox Star demo)

by higginbo＠netpath.net

At 10:26 PM 6/10/98 -0400, William Donzelli wrote: >> Packard Bell: Today's headache, tomorrow's obscure collectible. Hey, you >> never know: People might start collecting only the badly designed systems. >> It could happen. > >OK, enough Packard-Bell bashing. Send me every PB model 250 you can get >your hands on - I will even pay shipping (and for the crate). Heh heh. I thought that comment would flush out a PB person or two. :) They have actually gotten alot better, but I don't think you'll ever see any in the Smithsonian like some classic systems. - - john higginbotham ____________________________ - webmaster www.pntprinting.com - - limbo limbo.netpath.net -

27 years, 11 months

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Early Mac Clones

by desieh＠southcom.com.au

Mac XTs where the first as far as I know Mac clones............. bascailly a Mac in a IBM 5150 case......... Desie -----Original Message----- From: nerdware(a)laidbak.com <nerdware(a)laidbak.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Monday, June 08, 1998 1:47 Subject: Re: Early Mac Clones Date sent: Sun, 07 Jun 1998 13:46:25 -0400 Send reply to: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu From: Ward Donald Griffiths III <gram(a)cnct.com> To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Subject: Re: Early Mac Clones > Zane H. Healy wrote: > > > I think that's the same book I've got a copy of around here. Interesting > > reading, but I've basically never seen any of that stuff anywhere. Though > > I found it really interesting, has anyone ever seen a Mac Plus or simular > > system recased into a PC case? It would be a fun project, but I've got to > > many other projects :^) > > > > The closest I've got to a Mac clone (I'm writting this on a PowerMac > > 8500/180) is a Amiga 3000 with emulation software. The Amiga is actually > > about as fast as the real thing. > > I had a coworker in the late 80s who had his Mac and his Amiga 2000 > recased and rack-mounted, sharing a rack with a lot of _serious_ > video editing gear. > -- IIRC, NewTek (makers of the Video Toaster) decided that since they were having some trouble getting the Toaster accepted in the mainstream because most people thought the Amiga was only a toy, they created an interface card for a Mac that would allow the Mac user to run the Toaster-equipped A2000 (private-labeled for NewTek) from his Mac, thereby making it 'legit'. I had to laugh at the thought of paying a grand or more just to see the Amiga Workbench come up on a Mac screen instead of the "toy" Amiga screen. Of course, this 'toy' made multimedia possible before Uncle Bill said it was ok to use it.....too many people forget that. Not you guys, though. (I hope.) One of my other favorite Amiga stories was something I swear I read in AmigaWorld or Byte -- right after the A1000 came out, Gates had a press conference to talk about Windows. Some reporter asked him about multitasking, and Gates replied that multitasking really wasn't possible in anything under 8 megs of ram. To which the same reporter replied, "But doesn't your own Amiga Basic multitask nicely on a 512k Amiga?" A question which Gates promptly ignored and moved on......... Paul Braun NerdWare -- The History of the PC and the Nerds who brought it to you. nerdware(a)laidbak.com www.laidbak.com/nerdware

27 years, 11 months

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Files as files

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

In general, file systems seem to fit into several simple categories. Let's say UNIX-like, DOS-like, simple (just data), and that's about it I've looked at Apple manuals, and the Apple ][ format is kinda like DOS in terms of having an array of blocks and stuff. Except Apple's is quite a bit more elegant. Since some people here are fond of praising the VAX, how does its file system work (typically)? > >That used to be one of my interview questions for Unix programmers: your >buggy program just created a filename with {control characters, leading >dash (-), leading slash (/), '*', etc} in it. How do you delete it? > >Does anybody collect file systems? That would be semi-useful for somebody >doing data recovery. I have no idea what the Newton "soup", for example, >looks like. One of my favorites was the Regulus (unix-like) filesystem. >It maintained a bitmap of free blocks and could easily allocate a best-fit >contiguous region for your file (I think they had an option to creat() for >contiguity). This made file access *fast* when you needed it. I still >find fragmentation a nightmare even on Linux. > >-- Doug > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 11 months

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Mac Portable Power Supply

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

IF you mean the AC adaptor, you can use later ones (powerbook). This is actually beneficial because later ones are strong enough to power the machine alone, while the Mac Portable one needed the battery to be inside and working. I powered my mac portable for a few months w/two adaptors. The I put the battery in. Happily, it recharged fully from that high current (it was dead otherwise; I got the portable because it wouldn't start up because of the battery. I got it to run by hooking the battery up to mains AC long enough to "recharge" it). >I was wondering if anyone had a Mac Portable power supply, and wanted to >sell it cheap. > Thanks :), > Mike Sheflin > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 11 months

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Files as files

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

How do UNIX files work? Is there a header of some sort? BTW, I think it's an incredible pain that the Mac has no built in way to change file types. If they get lost, I have to used DiskEdit or some such thing to restore them. > >Even the Mac or its apps seemed to be confused about the nature of >what should be in the resource fork - some apps stored all their >data there, using it as a sort of mini-database of tagged chunks >of data. If there's anything classic about today's computers, >it's the nearly universal recognition that a file's a file. >Departures from this are interesting but rare. > >The other non-file info such as the filename itself, the date stamp, >attributes, etc. are treated in an incidental fashion. The Amiga >file system, for example, had a "file comment" of about 80 characters >of extra text to describe the file that wasn't always preserved. >This may have been inherited from Tripos. > >And then there's the way something like the effects of Radix-50 >(packing three chars into two bytes) has percolated through the >years as three-character filename extensions from RT-11 (or >earlier?) to CP/M to DOS and Windows, which are overused and >abused in many ways. > >One of my latest three-great-ideas-before-breakfast ideas is >to write a program for Windows that sniffs and identifies files >in the manner of Unix's "file". That's the problem with files as >files: you can easily lose track of what's in them, especially >if you lose that three-char extension, or it gets wrapped in >an archive format or attachment, etc. > >- John >Jefferson Computer Museum <http://www.threedee.com/jcm> > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 11 months

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Clueless Museums (was: Final Xerox Star demo)

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Before we go any further, which Packard Bells are we talking about? I don't know the old ones (I rescued a 286 PB still in the box from a compactor about a year ago and hid it where I thought it would be safe; I doubt they will ever get that ceramic off the dumpster's ram), but the new ones are ugly and had that stupid navigator thing that looked like screenshots from Myst (do they still?). But, how bad can a design get (am I asking for it?)? >You mean there's a difference? :) > >Packard Bell: Today's headache, tomorrow's obscure collectible. Hey, you >never know: People might start collecting only the badly designed systems. >It could happen. > > >- >- john higginbotham ____________________________ >- webmaster www.pntprinting.com - >- limbo limbo.netpath.net - > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 11 months

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Mac Portable Power Supply

by icyblackhand＠hotmail.com

I was wondering if anyone had a Mac Portable power supply, and wanted to sell it cheap. Thanks :), Mike Sheflin ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 11 months

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Bit slices?

by mcquiggi＠sfu.ca

Bit slice processors are designed so that they can be ganged together with suitable interconnection, making an 8 bit ALU out of 2 - 4 bit units, etc. Generally good for accumulators etc with more complex instruction decoding outboard. My 2 cents... Kevin At 02:39 PM 11/06/98 -0400, you wrote: > >Hej allesammen; > >What's a 'bit slice'? Are they served with a twist of lemon? > >I suppose a better way of asking that is how is a 'bit sliced' processor >or ALU differentiated from a 'normal' one? > >ok >r. > > >

27 years, 11 months

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Files as files

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jun 11, 3:36, Doug Yowza wrote: > That used to be one of my interview questions for Unix programmers: your > buggy program just created a filename with {control characters, leading > dash (-), leading slash (/), '*', etc} in it. How do you delete it? Quickest general method is "rm -i *", though you may sometimes need "rm -i .*" instead/as well. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

27 years, 11 months

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Attn: Ward Griffiths

by jeff.kaneko＠ifrsys.com

Guys: I would address this to Ward directly, rather than to the list, but our jerked-around mail system now removes the original senders address. My apologies. Ward: Please e-mail me at: jeff.kaneko(a)ifrsys.com There's something I'd like to discuss with you. Thanks! Jeff We now return you to our regularly scheduled programme . . . .

27 years, 11 months

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Microsoft's Computer Museum

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 12:47 AM 6/11/98 +0100, you wrote: >That makes me wonder if they're going to attempt to rewrite history >_again_... After all the Altair (it was the Altair, wasn't it) was hardly Well, possibly, but the optimist in me says that maybe, just maybe, they'll do it right, what with all that money they have laying around.... (Pardon me, while I go kill said optimist. Feel free to continue laughing...) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 11 months

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Early Mac Clones

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 11:18 PM 6/10/98 +0000, you wrote: >> >Dash '030 from (iirc) 68000 systems. It's an actual Mac II-type > >Apparently very popular (at one time, at least) with prepress houses. Yes; one of mine came from a company called Landor Associates that was responsible for recent Olympic Logos, Radio Shack's latest logo, Most (if not all) of McDonald's packaging and branding, and a lot of Microsoft's packaging/branding. Great company, and good at what they do. (In addition to the Dash, they had an outbound running around, but I don't know what happened to it.) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 11 months

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Early Mac Clones

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 02:48 PM 6/10/98 PDT, you wrote: >Is this device better than a mouse, in your opinion? Is it an ADB >device? Is it better than a mouse? Is Ben & Jerry's Phish Food better than a rotten banana? Is a Jaguar XK8 better than totalled Ford Aspire? Yes, it's better. Unfortunately, it's an integral part of the Outbound case, and therefore not applicable to any other computer. The outbound, if you're unfamiliar with it, is a Mac Clone laptop. There are two models; mine sports a 68030, and uses a standard 2.5" IDE laptop hard drive. Great machine. (If my screen wasn't ferschimmled I'd be using it all the time.) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 11 months

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FA: Various systems

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 02:48 PM 6/10/98 -0500, you wrote: >Actually, the ad was for auctions at Haggle Online, http://www.haggle.com. (nudge, nudge, wink, wink, say no more, say no more...) 8^) For them not familiar with it, Haggle is kinda like ebay, though less crowded. More importantly, it is also building an online museum of classic computers. This is probably due to our own Doug Salot somehow being involved in the whole mess... --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 11 months

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FA: Various systems

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 01:37 PM 6/10/98 EDT, you wrote: >This is NOT a flame, but i'm just wondering the point of posting items that >have been put up for sale on ebay, et al. all that means is every item will The point is that you thereby inform a whole passel of people that the items are for sale, including many who might not otherwise know. Gets the seller potentially higher prices. And, someone here might find out about something they really want. On the other hand, it may annoy some folks here. btw, it seems to me that prices on Haggle are not quite as wild as on ebay. (Though I do check ebay regularly too.) >is announced as being for sale, the subscribers to this group should get >first crack. Well, tyhat would be nice, but the collective "we" can't force anyone to do anything. This has come up before, and the consensus seems to be that it's a tough decision whether to offer things here (and be a hero) or on ebay (and get rich.) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 11 months

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Cross listing Ebay items

by jfoust＠threedee.com

At 08:26 PM 6/10/98 -0500, you wrote: > >Or the $1500 Lisa 2? That one went from $300 to $1500 in one bid, but it >only takes one sucker, err, collector. The auction sites are just like any other web site: you don't know what's really happening, such as if the transaction actually takes place at that price. Certainly the auction sites do not list their failure and debt-collection rates. I think the auction offers and supposed final bids are interesting to hear - they're at least as interesting as the brag-of-the-week >from those lucky Silicon Valley and Redmond thrift-store cruisers who appear to be filling a U-Haul for $50 every weekend. On Wed, 10 Jun 1998, Ward Donald Griffiths III wrote: > Hell, I'd rather fix rams with my teeth the way the old Basque herders > used to than a Packard-Bell computer. At least us sheep ranchers understand your jokes. - John

27 years, 11 months

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Early Mac Clones

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

But there's a difference between a Z-80 running a text-mode interface, and an 8088 running a GUI. Also, remember that Bill Gates didn't know very much about operating systems, as opposed to languages. MS Windows is the only OS MS programmed ground up, something they only started after the A1000. And, I've never seen Windows multitask under 8MB in the way the Amiga or a UNIXoid computer can. >> and Gates replied that multitasking really wasn't possible in >> anything under 8 megs of ram. To which the same reporter replied, >>"But >> doesn't >> your own Amiga Basic multitask nicely on a 512k Amiga?" >> >> A question which Gates promptly ignored and moved on......... > >Especially since the TRS-80 Model 16, with the Xenix OS partly done >by Microsoft, multitasked (and multiusered) quite nicely even with >only 256K of RAM. Not to mention the Color Computer running OS-9 in >64K. >-- >Ward Griffiths >They say that politics makes strange bedfellows. >Of course, the main reason they cuddle up is to screw somebody else. > Michael Flynn, _Rogue Star_ > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 11 months

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Clueless Museums (was: Final Xerox Star demo)

by higginbo＠netpath.net

At 10:13 PM 6/10/98 -0400, Ward Donald Griffiths III wrote: >Hell, I'd rather fix rams with my teeth the way the old Basque herders >used to than a Packard-Bell computer. You mean there's a difference? :) Packard Bell: Today's headache, tomorrow's obscure collectible. Hey, you never know: People might start collecting only the badly designed systems. It could happen. - - john higginbotham ____________________________ - webmaster www.pntprinting.com - - limbo limbo.netpath.net -

27 years, 11 months

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Files as files

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jun 11, 4:20, Ward Donald Griffiths III wrote: > Unix started with a 14-char filename limit (and allowed [still does] > characters in filenames tricky to get at from the shell). I still have two disks with filenames which include DEL and NUL characters. > I always figured if you couldn't describe > what a file was for in 14 characters, you should be in a different > profession. The current fashion for doing things like including > things like extended version numbers in filenames does not change my > opinion. Nor mine :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

27 years, 11 months

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Digital DF02 modem

by dastar＠wco.com

Ok you DEC-heads. What baud rate does the Digital DF02 modem jog along at? Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 06/07/98]

27 years, 11 months

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IBM PC DOS 5.02 (OT)

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

Hi. I just got a shwrink wrapped copy of this, and wanted to know if anyone wanted it before I used it... I'll either sell it or trade it for PC/Apple ][ stuff. Ciao, Tim D. Hotze

27 years, 11 months

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Dash 030 (was: Early Mac Clones)

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 07:14 AM 6/10/98 -0700, you wrote: >Does "Mac II-type motherboard" mean its a genuine Apple motherboard, or >do you just mean its similiar to the Mac II motherboards? Sorry... By "Mac II-type" I meant that size mb. Both that I have use real Apple motherboards. One is (iirc) a Mac IIx, the other is a IIfx. Very nice servers for their time, with great cases. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 11 months

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Files as files

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jun 10, 11:10, Allison J Parent wrote: > <word. I do not know if ODS-1 (RSX FILES-11) or the RSTS filesystems > <precede RT-11, but if I had to guess, I would say yes. IIRC, both use > <9.3. > > Did you mean 8.3? RT-11, RSTS and RSX-11 were 8.3 as was early VMS and > unice. RT-11 has always been 6.3, RSX-11 is 9.3 IIRC, and UNIX doesn't have any fixed format - though early versions had a fairly small limit on name length (12 chars?). All versions of UNIX allow as many dots as you can fit in the length. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

27 years, 11 months

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FS: Apple Lisa Vintage Computer! Very rare! (fwd)

by dastar＠wco.com

@Get this for humor. The funny thing is, he'll probably get this price for it! Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 06/07/98] ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Shadow303(a)my-dejanews.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2.marketplace Subject: FS: Apple Lisa Vintage Computer! Very rare! Date: Mon, 08 Jun 1998 14:39:20 GMT Apple Lisa computer for sale! Looks a bit used but in excellent condition! Has tons of extra software! I want 2,000 dollars or best offer. E mail me. Cliff -- Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 06/07/98]

27 years, 11 months

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Microsoft Re-Liscencing?

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

Hi. Just heard about this, so I dunno really what I'm talking about... Appearantly, this company is (was) selling liscences for DOS 3.3. I'm guessing that this is from a deal with MS. Has anyone ever seen this? Is it available with another product, such as early Windows releases? Ciao, Tim D. Hotze

27 years, 11 months

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Basic PDP-11ish questions

by healyzh＠ix.netcom.com

OK, to aviod confusion the first system in question is a SMS-1000, with a PDP-11/73 board, 2MW RAM, RL02 Controller (DL), TK50 Controller (MU), Dilog DQ606 Floppy Controller (DY). The SMS-1000 has an internal Floppy and HD, which it thinks are a RD51 (DU) and RX50 (DU). The boot ROMs support DU (DSA, the HD and Floppy), MU (TK50), and MS (TS). I'm able to boot off of RL02 by entering in the bootstrap from ODT. I've got RSX-11M and XXDP RL02 packs, and can boot from either. I've managed to make a bootable XXDP floppy diskette. I can boot the machine directly off of the XXDP floppy on power up. I can boot the XXDP floppy >from the XXDP RL02 pack, and then boot the XXDP RL02 pack from floppy. However, if I power up and boot from floppy, I can not boot the XXDP RL02 pack. Is this because the Boot ROMs don't support RL02's? Does anyone have any instructions for a Dilog DQ606 controller? I gather that it can be configured to act as several different floppy drives. The drives that came with it are labeled as being a RX-50 and a RX-33, yet RSX-11M sees both as RX-02's. I'd like to get these changed back to RX-50 and RX-33. What does the device name 'MS', device type 'TS' stand for? My guess is a 9-Track tape drive. I've also got a PDP-11/44 that I'm slowly working on restoring. It's in two racks, one has a pair of RL02's which have been cleaned up. The other has the CPU, 2 RX-02's, 2 TU-58's, and a battery backup. In looking at the CPU, it looks as if it has a LED for the battery backup. Does that battery need to be in the system? I would just as soon remove them and not have anything to do with them since they are old lead-acid batteries, and I'm not very fond of such things (spent 3 1/2 years of my time in the Navy working on UPS's). Is there any reason that I can't just plug the whole thing into a power source outside of the rack. I'm asking since for all I know the battery and powersuppy in the bottom of the rack are some kind of power conditioning circuit. Also does anyone have any recommendations on how to go about testing out the power supplies on the 11/44? I'd just as soon not blow anything up. I have powered up the RL02's, but that is all so far. I'm waiting to test the power supplies before I get the remaining boards that I need for the system. Thanks, Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | | For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html |

27 years, 11 months

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Early Mac Clones

by jeff.kaneko＠ifrsys.com

Hey, not to mention those guys that unpackage their CoCo III's and put them into PeeCee cabinets to add SCSI, more disk drives, extra memory, etc. etc. etc. Jeff At 05:45 PM 6/8/98 -0500, you wrote: >>bit hard getting a mac into a pc case though, remember that macs have all >>the connectors on board, >> >>desie > > >Can't be any worse than the people that put Atari's or Amiga's in a PC >case. I've seen a Atari TT030 in a PC Tower, and it's quite popular among >Amiga people to tower their A1200's. All it takes is some creative cabling. > > Zane >| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | >| healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | >| healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | >+----------------------------------+----------------------------+ >| For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | >| see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | >| For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | >| see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html | > > >

27 years, 11 months

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Cross listing auction items

by higginbo＠netpath.net

I'm trying my darndest not to get too involved in this thread, even though I started it, but I need to set the record straight: The URLs I sent weren't from ebay, they were from Haggle Online. An online auction that is totally free to buyers and sellers, unlike ebay, that charges a fee to sellers. Not that it really matters, since online auctions seem to be the new "great satan" on this list. I would like to point out though that if you don't know the true value of an item, why not let the public decide? What's wrong with making a little bit of money off a hobby? I know this probably isn't over, but I'll try to stay out of it, regardless. At 07:15 PM 6/10/98 -0700, Sam Ismail wrote: >I and others have said in the past that there's no wrong reason for >wanting to collect computers, but this craze I see going on at eBay is in >the very least stupid. - - john higginbotham ____________________________ - webmaster www.pntprinting.com - - limbo limbo.netpath.net -

27 years, 11 months

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Early Mac Clones

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<One of the smallest multitasking systems I've seen was the I/O processor <on the PERQ 2's. It was a Z80 with 4K ROM and 16K RAM, but said ROM <contained essentially a cooperatively multitasking kernel. Some tasks <were in ROM, others were loaded into RAM. OK, so the user never realised <what was going on, but that doesn't alter the fact that it was there :-) The smallest I've seen run on 8080 and fits in some 100 or so bytes. It was published in Kilobaud April 1978 page 102 and yes it was real. To multitask on most anything all you need is an interrupt and save the context of the current task and start some new task... the order, where the tasks are and memory allocation can be somewhat tricky but, for small tasks its pretty trivial. I've done it in 8048 MCUs where the resources were 64byts of ram and 1k of rom and the tasks were keyscan, display, serial IO and code conversion. The timer provided the interrupt. Allison

27 years, 11 months

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Early Mac Clones

by desieh＠southcom.com.au

bit hard getting a mac into a pc case though, remember that macs have all the connectors on board, desie -----Original Message----- From: Sam Ismail <dastar(a)wco.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Monday, June 08, 1998 5:41 Subject: Re: Early Mac Clones >On Sun, 7 Jun 1998, Tom Owad wrote: > >> What edition do you have? My 2nd edition book says a listing of clones >> is given in edition 1, as oppose to just saying they exist. I'd love to >> get a list of old Mac clones. > >I made a timely find today of the first edition of _Build Your Own >Macintosh and Save a Bundle_. In Chapter 2 it has a price comparison >between the clone "Cat" Mac and the real Mac. The computers it lists are: > >Cat Mac SE >Cat Mac SE 30 >Cat Mac II >Cat Mac IIfx >Cat Mac IIcx >Cat Mac IIci > >It will indeed be interesting if I ever find one of these homebrew clones >(For the curious, the book basically tells you to buy Mac motherboards and >parts from third-party suppliers and stick them in a PC case. That's it.) >They would be hard to spot since I don't even give a first look to PC >clone boxes. There's not really anything special about them anyway, other >than the fact that it is novel. > >Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- >Ever onward. > > September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 > See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! > [Last web page update: 05/30/98] >

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Stupid lusers...

by JRichardson＠softwright.co.uk

>> The MC68010 is the heart of my favorite computer ever, the AT&T Unix PC >> (built by Convergent Technologies). I've got three, two work fine, one >> is for parts. _Still_ the prettiest machines in my collection. Do you mean the NCR Tower series? Or was this some other offering by AT&T? I seem to remember that the old Tower 400's had 68010's - I've still got a few boards somewhere for one (system board was about 1 metre long and half a metre high!). I've got a complete Tower 700 with a 68030 as main CPU, and performance still rates really highly even these days...) Jules

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Files as files

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jun 10, 14:56, Max Eskin wrote: > How do UNIX files work? Is there a header of some sort? Not really. Certainly not consistently across all file types. Often command scripts have a comment at the top, and some versions of unix (eg, Irix) embed a "tag" number into executables so they can distinguish individual programs/versions quickly, but other than that, filetype determination is done by looking at various parts of a file and comparing what's found ("magic numbers") to a database (the "magic" file). So, for example, my system "knows" a certain file is a command script because the first 256 characters are all ASCII (which means it's probably a text file of some sort) and the file permissions are set such that it's executable (not merely readable). It also knows that a certain file is an ELF-format executable for a 32-bit little-endian MIPS processor with a version 1 architecture (ie it will run on *old* MIPS cpus as well as newer ones) because the bytes at offset 1 are "ELF", at offset 4 there's a binary "1" (which in this context means 32-bit not 64-bit), at offset 5 there's another "1" (little-endian), at offset 16 "2" means "executable", and at offset 18 "0" means "MIPS" (not Sparc, 80x86, 68000, etc). Some magic numbers are much simpler to decode, of course: a file that begins with "GIF89a" is a GIF file, surprise, surprise. And the more you dig, the more detail you can work out. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

27 years, 11 months

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Clueless Museums (was: Final Xerox Star demo)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<And another point. There are a lot of ways to make (say) an oscillator. <If you're designing something you probably only need to know a couple of <them. But if you're repairing it, you'd better understand the one that <was used. True! I have the advantage that I see designs and immediatly see the core of the design with all the fluff removed. But it's years of experience and a good basic grounding in circuit theory that allows me to look st stuff I've never seen and synthsize the elements of the design in my head and troubleshoot it, right down to seeing it's weak points of likely failure. Allison

27 years, 11 months

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Clueless Museums (was: Final Xerox Star demo)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Related to this, there's a myth that design is difficult, but design is easy, it's a process. The initial creative thought is hard. <faultfinding/repair can be done by almost anybody. Well, having done <both, I personally find them equally difficult. Perhaps that means I'm <no good at it, but... Troubleshooting is a very complex process that I've never been able to teach to anyone but those that naturally could. For me troubleshooting is something that I find natural and easy. I carry that to design as just a different problem to solve (cheaper, faster, better; pick any two). But working with field circus underscored that thinking is not something you can mandate. Allison

27 years, 11 months

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Cross listing auction items

by higginbo＠netpath.net

At 07:58 PM 6/10/98 -0500, Doug Yowza wrote: >auctions. I'd suggest that the exact opposite is true. Whenever somebody >asks this list "how much is this thing worth", the answer is invariably >"whatever somebody is willing to pay". Basically, valuation of >collectibles is a democratic process not an analytical one belonging to >some exclusive domain of experts. Exactly, hence the value of an auction environment. That is what "whatever someone is willing to pay" means, isn't it? - - john higginbotham ____________________________ - webmaster www.pntprinting.com - - limbo limbo.netpath.net -

27 years, 11 months

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Help on Grid Laptop

by manney＠lrbcg.com

There's an interesting GRiD support page at http://limbo.netpath.net/hw/GRiD/new.html >Is it a 1550SX? Try ftp://ftp.ast.com/GRID/conf1550.exe

27 years, 11 months

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GRiD Latop, another problem

by manney＠lrbcg.com

Thanks for the advice -- it worked just fine!. Now...Windows (3.1) setup hangs when loading...when it's still in the DOS screens (before starting the Windows part.) Any ideas? manney(a)lrbcg.com "Un sot trouve toujours un plus sot qui l'admire." >Most (all?) GRiDs allow the boot device to be selected by holding down a >key at boot time: >'F': floppy >'H': hard disk >'B': bubble disk >'R': ROM disk >etc. I'm also hav manney(a)lrbcg.com "Un sot trouve toujours un plus sot qui l'admire."

27 years, 11 months

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FA: Various systems

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

This is NOT a flame, but i'm just wondering the point of posting items that have been put up for sale on ebay, et al. all that means is every item will already be overbid on for an insane price. it is my opinion that if anything is announced as being for sale, the subscribers to this group should get first crack. david In a message dated 98-06-10 13:21:21 EDT, you write: << Some items on auction: Apple Portable, currently at $53.00 http://www.haggle.com/cgi/getitem.cgi?id=201635376 TI-99/4A, complete with about 15 games http://www.haggle.com/cgi/getitem.cgi?id=201639758 Also, looking for cheap Type I PCMCIA/JEIDA RAM cards. 1mb-4mb range. >>

27 years, 11 months

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MS Museum (RE: Ack, not again (RE: Cross listing auction items))

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

Well, apparently we need to demolish the existing one-story building where the current museum is located, and it's always been a bit cramped for big school tours, so a new larger location was pretty much de rigeur. I don't know if anything will be added, and no, I'm not on the museum staff. Kai -----Original Message----- From: Doug Yowza [mailto:yowza@yowza.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 1998 6:17 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Re: Ack, not again (RE: Cross listing auction items) On Wed, 10 Jun 1998, Kai Kaltenbach wrote: > Please stop this, we've been over it a million times. We've been over the "is it OK to sell stuff here" question a million times. The auction thing adds a nice twist because they address the all-important valuation issue. Anyway, did you have anything to do with the Microsoft Museum announcement, and do you know what Bill is looking for and how much he'll pay? -- Doug

27 years, 11 months

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Ack, not again (RE: Cross listing auction items)

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

Please stop this, we've been over it a million times. It ALWAYS generates MORE traffic on the list to argue about it than it does to simply ignore the auction posts if you don't like 'em. Kai

27 years, 11 months

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IBM 700 Laptop Significance?

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 12:58 AM 6/10/98 -0500, you wrote: >The first DOS laptop with a pointing device was the GRiD 1550SX, and it >had an isopoint (tootsie-roll) similar to the Outbound Mac-clone. What year did the 1550sx come out? I'll have to watch for it... 8^) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 11 months

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IBM 700 Laptop Significance?

by lwalker＠mail.interlog.com

> On Tue, 9 Jun 1998, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > > Was this one of the ones from about '92? If it's the one I'm thinking of, > > it would be the first with the 'pencil' pointer in the keyboard. For all I > > know, the first built in pointer (I'd not seen any prior to this). Of > > course I really remember it running AIX and OS/2 at the same time (I hate > > AIX, but sure wish they had released that product). > > That must be it. The TP700 was the first with the TrackPoint (eraser > head). Interestingly enough there was a thread recently on comp.sys.ibm.ps2 re the collectiveity of PS2 s. Most mentioned the 700. Some quotes : "The Thinkpad 710T (IBMs first Trackpad). I have one - without the 5MB TP-File. There were two different model-lines out: one has a 2.5" IDE HD, the other has a 5,10 or 20MB PCMCIA Solid State disk. The SSD-models have a different planar and cannot be converted into IDE-models. I have a SSD-model (2523-AY9) but no TP-Filecard. Too bad." " 9552 Thinkpad 700 C, one of the last microchannel Thinkpads" ciao larry > > The first DOS laptop with a pointing device was the GRiD 1550SX, and it > had an isopoint (tootsie-roll) similar to the Outbound Mac-clone. > > -- Doug > > > lwalker(a)interlog.com

27 years, 11 months

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IBM 700 Laptop Significance?

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 10:28 PM 6/9/98 -0700, you wrote: >Was this one of the ones from about '92? If it's the one I'm thinking of, >it would be the first with the 'pencil' pointer in the keyboard. For all I >know, the first built in pointer (I'd not seen any prior to this). Of That's probably it. Though not the first with a built-in pointer. As Doug mentioned, GRiD had one, as did the Mac Portable (1989) and the Atari STacy (year?). Not sure what year the Outbound came out but I'm pretty sure it was pre-thinkpad (maybe '89ish?). --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 11 months

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FA: Various systems

by higginbo＠netpath.net

Looks like I made a real splash with my first post since resubscribing! In my defense, all I have to say is this: If don't really know the current street value for an item and I want to get rid of it, the best thing to do IS put it on auction and post to similar lists and newsgroups. I'm sorry if I offended anyone. During my hiatus, I was spending alot of time on usenet, a place where this is done all the time. Guess I got a little brainwashed. If it's gonna cause a problem, I won't let it happen again. At 01:37 PM 6/10/98 EDT, SUPRDAVE(a)aol.com wrote: >This is NOT a flame, but i'm just wondering the point of posting items that >have been put up for sale on ebay, et al. all that means is every item will >already be overbid on for an insane price. it is my opinion that if anything >is announced as being for sale, the subscribers to this group should get first >crack. - - john higginbotham ____________________________ - webmaster www.pntprinting.com - - limbo limbo.netpath.net -

27 years, 11 months

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Early Mac Clones

by tomowad＠earthlink.net

>A (very!) non-portable Mac "Clone" that I haven't seen mentioned yet is the >Dash '030 from (iirc) 68000 systems. It's an actual Mac II-type >motherboard in a huge server case. Ports were accessable on the top, and >has about 6 or 7 drive bays up front. The front covers the drives and can >be locked closed. Huge P/S, with filter on the back. Very serious >systems. I've got two, actually. Does "Mac II-type motherboard" mean its a genuine Apple motherboard, or do you just mean its similiar to the Mac II motherboards? Tom Owad

27 years, 11 months

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Early Mac Clones

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Is this device better than a mouse, in your opinion? Is it an ADB device? >At 12:25 PM 6/8/98 -0700, you wrote: >>>Outbound >> >>Anybody have any of these? Any experience with them. I would love some >>further information. > >I have an Outbound. Fantastic machine. The pointing device alone is worth >getting the computer for. (Imagine a pencil tucked up against the bottom >edge of your keyboard. Roll it towards the screen and away to move the >cursor up and down. Slide it left and right to move the cursor left and >right. Wonderful!) Unfortunately, mine has a problem with the screen; if >anyone has any spare parts, or knows anything about them, I'd love to hear >from you! (I'd really like to put this machine to use!) > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- O- > >Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad >roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." >Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates >San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 11 months

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Wang PC-002 ??

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

After reading Doug's message, I checked at my favorite trift store and found a pile of manuals for a Wang PC. NOT Personal Computer but Professional computer! The manuals seem to be sort of generic to all Wang PCs. None of the manuals mentioned a model number of the computers themselves but they did list the model numbers of the various options and accessories. I also found three Wang computers. They were under a pile of stuff so I didn't get a good luck at them and I don't know if they were Wang PCs or a different model but they looked like the PCs. Two looked like 8 slot electronics units (that's what Wang calls them) and the other looked like a 5 slot unit. Joe At 02:18 PM 6/9/98 -0400, you wrote: > >Greetings, > >I saw a very large Wang box at a thrift store yesterday, I *think* the >little sticker on it said "PC-002". I didn't see the keyboard, but I >didn't look. > >The machine was really big, I think about twice the height of an old >IBM-PC and about the same width. It was longer than it was wide. > >It had two full-height 5.25" floppy drives. > >>From the back it looked like it had several large horizontally-mounted >cards inside, including one with two coaxial cable connectors and another >with two female DIN connectors. > >I would have paid close attention to it had my arms not already been full. > >I didn't see the keyboard, but it was probably stacked up in the pile with >all the normal PC crap keyboards. > >If I am to go back for it, I'll have to take the car as I doubt I'd be >able to survive the walk to the bus while trying to carry that thing. > >Does anyone know what this thing is? > > >Doug Spence >ds_spenc(a)alcor.concordia.ca >http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ > >

27 years, 11 months

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