Hi,
I have what could be called a classic machine, a Sun-1 (With a Sun-2
upgrade 68010 board) Now I have 1/2 and 1/4 inch tape drives 2 hard drives
loads of tapes/manuals and a SunOS 3.2 boot tape set. This machine was
only recently taken out of service after it spend some years converting
old 1/2" tapes into a more permanent format. The HDD's are unfortunatly
dying and I've only had it booted once, and it booted SunOS 3.2. The
problem is the old machine refuses to boot of it's tape drive (an archive
QIC-11 drive) typing:
> b ar()
simply gets
ar: 96A0 Error
Retensing...
ar: 90C8 Error
>
Network booting is possible, but Sun never released the specs to the "nd"
network protocol and I don't have access to another SunOS box to try and
work out how ndbootd works.
I'd love to get this machine working and up on the net.
Any help would be appreciated
Karl
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Karl Maftoum
Computer Engineering student at the University of Canberra, Australia
Email: k.maftoum(a)student.canberra.edu.au
< I just got an Amstrad ppc 640, and am starting to realise how much I rea
< wish this thing had a hard disk - even a little one. Is there ANY sort
< hard disk solution that will plug into a 720k 3.5inch floppy controller
<
< Ideally it would come out the other end in IDE, and I could put one of t
< little 1.8 inch 20 meg IDE drives in the thing. Speed is not a huge con
< since this is a 4.77mhz XT class machine.
If it has ISA bus either JADE, JAMCO or JDR I forget which, sells an
ISA-8 bit to standard IDE adaptor. What makes it nice is it has bios
support on it. Acculogic made one too at lone time.
Allison
All direct cable connection software is capable of using the parallel
port to transfer files.
>No. If however you tie the SERIAL port of your apple to the serial
port of
>your pc, that will work. Centronics is an 8 bit parallel interface
normally
>used for printers. Null modems and such are serial - 1 bit at a time.
>The two are not compatible without significant electronics between
them.
>--
>Jim Strickland
>jim(a)calico.litterbox.com
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there?
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
At 01:47 AM 7/24/98 -0500, you wrote:
>>
>> I almost forgot to post about this. I recently acquired a complete
>> Heathkit H89 system, with dual floppies and a small printer (OkiData
>> Microline 82, serial), all in excellent condition.
>>
>> I got with it a bunch of manuals and floppies, among them CP/M boot
>> diskettes. As I recall, this is a Z80-based system, yes? Is it possible to
>
>It's roughly the same thing as a Zenith Z90. I have the manual here (it
>claims to be a user manual, but it contains schematics, PCB layouts,
>theory of operation, etc). It's a Z80-based machine with 48K or 64K RAM,
>3 serial ports as standard (+ the one for the built-in Z19 terminal), and
>a variety of disk controllers.
Keep in mind, these things were in vogue back in the days when the *users*
actually *expected* to get the schematics! My how times have changed . . .
>> use a hard drive on it?
>
>I believe there was a hard disk for it. I don't have one, and don't have
>any info on it.
>
>I believe you could use the following disk units :
>
>Z17 (hard sector 5.25")
>Z37 (soft sector 5.25")
>Z47 (8")
>Z67 (hard disk).
The Z-67 is a rare item indeed. I missed one in 1988. That's the last time
I ever saw one offered for sale (and it was *just the interface*). I don't
know anybody running one of these . . .
My Z-89 dosen't run anymore. Too many years of disuse, I guess.
Jeff
>
>
>
>-tony
>
>All direct cable connection software is capable of using the parallel
>port to transfer files.
On a PC maybe, but nothing is available for a Apple //.
-- Kirk
Linux world domination continues! Oracle just announced it will be making
versions of its products for Linux. Informix is already shipping Linux
versions of their database products too!
Yeeee ha!
Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.
September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2
See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
[Last web page update: 07/21/98]
Hi All:
I'm hoping someone might have spare copies of DR PL/I-86 (CPM86)
documents (Reference Manual & Programmer's Manual).
I have some good IBM docs but I need platform specific.
I don't think I need any 3rd part PL/I manuals yet, but if anyone has
some and would like to email the list to me, I'll certainly browse with
intent to buy.
I'm willing to pay a reasonable proce plus shipping, of course, for any
books.
I'm also looking for original PL/I programs for microcomputer platforms
if anyone has some collecting dust.
Thanks,
Mike Allison
I picked up a Grid wall adapter model 39008, 17VDC 1.25A center +,
available for shipping cost if anybody needs it.(Sacramento CA area) I
don't know what it fits.
Russ
At 09:55 AM 7/25/98 -0400, you wrote:
>At 11:16 PM 7/23/98 -0500, Doug Yowza wrote:
>
>>Wow, it sounds like somebody just lost their GRiD-virginity. John H. took
>>my 1535EXP, so I have to go from memory. It's a 386DX-33 (in a PGA, so
>
>Yes, I actually flew across the country, broke into his house, grabbed the
>mag-alloy 1535 out of his hands, repeatedly beat him over the head with it,
>and took off. Doug, you're lucky to be alive after all that. :) Maybe
>that's why I'm having problems with the sucker!
>
>>you can upgrade it via Cyrix/TI/etc) with up to 8MB RAM (low-profile
>>SIPs). I think it wants 16-18V DC, center neg. The empty hole will
>>accomidate eithe battery or a power supply with an AC plug.
>
>Yep, that sounds about right. It uses the same power brick my GRiDPad 1912
>uses. BTW, if anyone needs a keyboard adapter cable for their GRiDPad, let
>me know. I have 5 extras.
>
>>The connector on the bottom of the machine plugs into a docking tray,
>>which John H. also took and I think was trying to sell last time I
>>checked. (John, are you there?)
>
>I'd rather trade it to someone who can really use it. Even if it works, I
>don't really have a use for it, and the 1535 w/8mb is a very usable machine
>even without the tray.
>
>GRiD 1535 BIOS Date: 1989, slightly under the 10 year mark, but these are
>such extrordinary machines!
>
>-
>- john higginbotham ____________________________
>- webmaster www.pntprinting.com -
>- limbo limbo.netpath.net -
>
>
>
So, can I access the actual data with a non-CP/M comm program?
>It will read Apple CP/M disks, which are in the same format as
>regular Apple disks. Its just the layout of the data on the sectors
> that is different.
Because I was, and currently am, using Netscape which I have access to
on Saturdays and Tuesdays. BTW, I will be going away for a while. I'm
almost too embarassed to ask this, but what is the listserv adress to
unsubscribe?
>You seemed to have done a good job with this reply. Keep it up.
>
>
>Sam Alternate e-mail:
dastar(a)siconic.com
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Ever onward.
>
> September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2
> See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
> [Last web page update: 07/21/98]
>
>
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
I just got an Amstrad ppc 640, and am starting to realise how much I really
wish this thing had a hard disk - even a little one. Is there ANY sort of
hard disk solution that will plug into a 720k 3.5inch floppy controller?
Ideally it would come out the other end in IDE, and I could put one of those
little 1.8 inch 20 meg IDE drives in the thing. Speed is not a huge concern,
since this is a 4.77mhz XT class machine.
Also, if anyone has a wrecked ppc 512 or 640 that has a good back case section-
the bottom part of the main body that the handle is screwed to (and the handle)
I'd be very interested in buying it. Mine appears to have gotten squooshed in
shipping and had the handle torn off, and I'm lothe to trust epoxied plastic
to hold a 14+ pound computer.
--
Jim Strickland
jim(a)calico.litterbox.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, it is apparent that lots of people would like those HP150 boards I
have. So...
How about the interested people submitting bids for the things? Make the
bids as silly and insulting as you want, just remember, buyer pays
shipping (probably three bucks)!
William Donzelli
william(a)ans.net
Weelll, I can't lurk on this one.
Zane, is your record from Norlin Company? If so, it is the (quite
rare) demo record that Norlin put out when they bought Moog music
>from Bob (Moog). I have archived several of these demos, Moog and
ARP and Oberhiem. Be careful if you play it, they weren't on the
best vinyl.
Zane and Bruce: The Moog Modular Synths were just that... a
collection of modules of various kinds that one ordered to assemble
a complete system... kinda like DEC stuff. There were standard
configs available, but you could add-on, mix-match, whatever.
The particular instrument I am priveleged to share my studio with
is a Model 55 IIIC+ , and was owned by the late Paul Beaver, who used
it to make most of the strange sound effects for a small, obscure
movie in the late 70s called "Star Wars" or something like that.
More detail on them can be found by doing a websearch on "musical
instruments, electronic, Moog"... or one can got to
www.synthfool.com for a good set of links.
ObCLASSICCMP: One of my intentions for at least one of my PDP11
systems is to interface it to my Moog, and obtain an old copy of
Csound or the like.. to recreate an exact environment from the
'childhood' of electronic music.
My collection and studio: www.lightsound.org. The site needs
updating, but you can see the specs for several classic synththesizers.
Cheers
John
ps: Kennedy 9300 parts / svc manual wanted... Enquire Within.
A few questions about clean(ing) circuits:
a)Can dust cause any damage to a PCB? Can it short anything?
b)What do you recommend for cleaning out PCBs if there's lot of it,
or spiderwebs, mold whatever?
c)Does distilled water cause rust?
d)Can distilled water be used to clean circuits?
e)As I understand, tap/spring/rain/etc. water is full of minerals
and that's why it's conductive as well as rust-causing
f)A while ago, I picked up a bunch of 5.25" diskettes, which I hardly
allowed to dry before I put them into the plastic box. Now I
looked inside, and mold is spreading from the Microsoft Assembler
diskettes onto the Apple II ones. What is safe to use to clean
the mold (it's reeely disgusting!)?
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< The first S-100 computers did not come with any termination but they
< soon found that the long bus lines were causing ringing and false
< triggering in the circuits. Ringing is caused when a signal reaches the
< of an unterminated (open) line such as a data buss.* The signal reverse
< polarity and travels back in the direction that it came from just like a
< echo. When it reaches another end, it changes polarity and direction aga
< Now you have two positive pulses and one negative pulse where there is o
< supposed to be one pulse! Consider the number of times that each line
< branched off to a card socket and you can understand that now there wher
< dozen or more echos on every line and they were all at different times.
< It's no wonder that the systems where so difficult to make work with al
< the noise on the buss.
This is true. All signals on the bus and off it obey Transmission line
theory. IT's also the one of the reasons why the T-connector for thin
eithernet must be on the back of the machine and not a 3ft jumper away.
One of the design rules that ALtair bused the worst and IMSAI seemed to
have a clue on was what are clalled stubs. What this translates to
is anything going onto and off of the backplane(bus) MUST be buffered
as close to the edge connector as possible.
< board. I believe that the later S-100 systems like the N* Horizon came w
< termination built into the MB. The ringing problem in the early Altair
No it didn't and doesn't need it. They approached it a bit different
by making one end of the bus a permanently resident IO section with
seria, parallel and heartbeat interrupt. Their choice of drivers and
recievers helped some too. Obeying stub theory was another step taken.
It is good enough that even at 8mhz z80 it works.
< was made worse by use of the long wires that ran from the MB to the fron
< panel. Better designs eliminated a lot the sources of the ringing. FW
that was the horror I saw when I built my altair back when. As an
RF/analog engineer I could see that making my day pure hell. It
proved to be true. The solution was a small board that plugged in and
buffered all the signals to and from the front pannel.
< this is EXACTLY the reason that you still have to terminate SCSI busses
< disk drive cabling. There is still an ongoing debate in the SCSI communi
< about the nessecity/benefits of active vs passive termination.
SCSI is an open collector bus so you need both termination (any) and
it must pull up unused lines or it don't work. This is also true for DEC
Omnibus, Unibus and Qbusses.
One of the long standing problems with bus terminations is that they
absorb power. This required stiffer drivers at the source and since
stiffer drivers matched the bus impedence even worse it tended to make
problem grow rather than solve it. it also consumes power contributing
heat to the box. S100 bus was one of those we made it that way but, no
one ever would have engineered it that way. All of the engineered buses
are terminated in some way or designed to perform without the need for it.
Allison
>Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 00:23:07 +0100 (BST)
So, can a standard XT controller be used for 8" drives?
>
>For reading 8" disks, of course. My PC/XT on the desk here has 2 each
of
>360K 5.25" drives, 720K 3.5" drives and 1.1Mbyte 8" drives (double
sided,
>double density, 77 track). Pity the controller I've got has problems
with
>single-density operation. I really must fix that sometime, but it's not
>urgent, as my PERQ has a much nicer floppy system...
For once, I used the correct terminology :) Compared to SCSI, all
IDE controllers and most non-IDE/SCSI MFM drives require very little
configuration. That's what I meant.
>What? ST506 drives (I assume that's what you mean - MFM is an encoding
>system, not a controller interface) have drive select jumpers at least.
>And often other ones.
>
>And the original IBM XT hard disk controller (later version only?) has
a
>set of jumpers to select the drive type. I believe you can solder a DIP
>switch in place of them if you want.
>
So does this mean 1.2MB floppies use a lower bps than 360K disks?
Which controllers were these? I ought to watch out.
>I've seen some controllers that can't correctly handle the 300kbps data
>rate (produced by putting a 360K disk in a 1.2Mbyte drive turning at
>360rpm). Of course the so-called manuals don't mention this anywhere,
but
>it was obvious from a logic analyser on the Write Data pin during
>formatting that it was actually using 250kbps.
>
Where can the connectors be gotten cheaply? I've seen them for a
couple of bucks each. I really ought to perform some maintenance.
Is there anything I need to know, or can I just snap those connectors
on and trim the cable?
>That problem is trivial to solve if you can crimp IDC connectors. Why
do
>people persist in refusing to modify PC parts - even cables?
>
>-tony
>
>
______________________________________________________
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-----Original Message-----
From: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
To: Cgregory <Cgregory>
Date: Friday, July 24, 1998 5:56 PM
Subject: Re: Epson QX-10, CP/M
<snip>
I have a complete (I think) set of manuals for the QX-10, so I will offer to
be a source for looking up material and/or copying parts/pages.
>> I'm obviously a neophyte at CP/M and wrestling at this time with a Dec
RB
>> which is even more confusing cause it also runs MSDOS.
>
>The Rainbow is a unique case because of its dual processors.
>
In addition I have QX-10's big brother, the QX-16 which is also a dual
processor machine. Kind of neat being able to boot into either MSDOS or
C/PM.
Cliff Gregory
cgregory(a)lrbcg.com
>Yes with any current printer just like a PC, though the connector may
>be different.
What I mean is, can I transfer files to a PC via the Centronics
interface? Can I 'print' a file in wordstar with the other end of the
cable plugged into a null modem?
>Sure!
Will an apple //c read CP/M disks? How?
I can't use an editor because it would take me forever to cut and paste
the lines between them. You don't realize how limiting the situation
really is. The library never intended this to be used for e-mail. Right
now I'm using Netscape 4 on a T1 connection at a place where I
volunteer.
>Max, get an editor. Either that or don't use LYNX for mail, try elm
>or pine.
>
>Allison
>
>
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>If
>you look on the back of the power supply itself you will see IBM's
>declaration that it should be only used with model 5140 (in several
>languages!).
Yes, there it is. "CAUTION! Indoor use only. To be used only with IBM
MOdel 5140." It never occured to me there would actually be some
valuable information in the disclaimer!
Tom
--
Sysop of Caesarville Online
Client software at: <http://home.earthlink.net/~tomowad/>
< 3/4 of an inch to small to even fit a 2.5" drive. I vaguely recall
< seeing something about 1.8" drives? Am I hallucinating here or does
suc
< a creature exist?
Even smaller...HP made a 1.3" disk drive, Hawkeye ???, I think it was
either 20MB or 40MB capacity. The components were so small you needed
watchmaker tools to take the drive apart.
Jack Peacock
I just acquired two Apple prototype keyboards. The keyboard is very
small with no frame and only 58 keys. They hvae stereo-type connectors
on them, as oppose to ADB, and I have an adapter box to hook them up to a
Mac Plus (and they do work, btw).
According to my "AppleDesign" book, they are "Cassie" keyboards,
co-designed by Mannock and Esslinger for the SnowWhite Project. Does
anyone have any further information on these keyboards? And how do
things like this get outside of Apple? I'm under the impression Apple
doesn't exactly give this kind of stuff away.
On the back the keyboards read:
[logo]apple
apq
Development Engineering
PROTOTYPE
S/n# Model#
1012
(the other says "1032")
Does Apple start numbering at '1' or '1000'?
The keyboard, btw, is obviously a prototype. The whole thing seems quite
flimsy and the keys are all angled slightly differently.
Tom
--
Sysop of Caesarville Online
Client software at: <http://home.earthlink.net/~tomowad/>
It's mostly a problem if there isn't documentation at the place where
the machine is. I've never run into a machine that is really beyond my
experience (my experience so far is PCs and BASIC-based home micros),
but if I ever had to deal with a PDP, I'd have to spend a lot of time
asking questions here and otherwise. Not that I foresee it. PDP will
eventually vanish from industrial applications, just because they will
all eventually be damaged by floods, fires, etc. And companies go
bankrupt, too. I doubt that by the time I am 50 I will run a reasonable
risk of seeing a PDP. Also, I don't know how to _program_ a PC. I know a
bit of BASIC (who doesn't?), enough to write a simple text editor or
something. I'm learning C but am stuck with pointers. I'm going to take
C++ at school starting in the fall. I've tried assembly, and do notice
that it's more straightforward than higher-level languages (I.E. there
are no ambiguous concepts like in C, it's all called what it really is),
but am not much good with
things mathematical. Maybe I'll learn.
>How is this a problem? You learned how to run a PC, programming a
>PDP-8 is at least an order of magnitude simpler.
How many instructions? I believe the Pentium has on the order of 80, not
sure.
>Seriously, the instruction set and archetecture is so simple it's
>downright inviting.
They weren't networked at all? I mean, there weren't instances of
connecting two machines with cables?
>The old machines didn't have to be huge, complex or networked.
>Allison
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Found on Usenet. If anyone wants an 11/750, this looks like a good grab.
It's in Tulsa, OK.
-=-=- <snip> -=-=-
On 25 Jul 98 14:48:09 CDT, in comp.sys.dec you wrote:
>>From: jps(a)lor.jrent.com (Jim Strother)
>>Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec
>>Subject: Free VAX to good home
>>Message-ID: <1998Jul25.144809@lor>
>>Date: 25 Jul 98 14:48:09 CDT
>>Organization: Lors Gateway
>>Lines: 11
>>NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.145.236.90
>>X-Trace: 25 Jul 1998 19:38:51 GMT, 208.145.236.90
>>Path: blushng.jps.net!news.eli.net!diablo.quiknet.com!csn!nntp-xfer-2.csn.net!news.psd.k12.co.us!newsfeed.frii.net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!206.154.138.15!news.busprod.com!lor!jps
>>
>>I have the following free to a good home.
>>
>>Vax 11/750
>>expansion cabinet
>>2 ra81 disk drives
>>1 tu78 9 track tape drive
>>
>>All you have to do is come get or send someone after it. I am located in
>>Tulsa, OK.
>>
>>Jim Strother
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272)
http://table.jps.net/~kyrrin -- also kyrrin [A-t] Jps {D=o=t} Net
Spam is bad. Spam is theft of service. Spam wastes resources. Don't spam, period.
I am a WASHINGTON STATE resident. Spam charged $500.00 per incident per Chapter 19 RCW.
At 14:09 25-07-98 -0400, you wrote:
>He Bruce,
>
>What do you figure, does he have a real address? the venix manuals would
>be nice if he exists.
Ahhh, criminys... sorry, Allison (and the rest of the list). I didn't
check to see if he had a real E-mail address.
I would try posting a query to the comp.sys.dec.micro. Chances are the
person will see it.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272)
(Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin(a)jps.net)
"Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own
human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."
< are there hard drives for laptops that are smaller than the 2.5"
< drives? I have a laptop that takes an IDE hdd, but the space is about
Yes, 1.8"
< 3/4 of an inch to small to even fit a 2.5" drive. I vaguely recall
< seeing something about 1.8" drives? Am I hallucinating here or does suc
< a creature exist?
there are hard drive PCMCIA cards the sixe of credit card and something
like 1/4" thick. I vaguely remember storage in the 100-200 mb range.
Allison
At 07:26 PM 7/24/98 -0500, you wrote:
>I was digging through some S-100 cards and came upon a Godbout active
>terminator. Do all S-100 buses require external termination, or did more
>have it built into the mobo? Specifically, do I need to stick this card
>into my IMSAI?
>
I don't remember many ads besides Godbout about active terminators. What
seemed more important was shielding - running ground traces between the
signal lines, at least for all the ads for "shielded" motherboards.
Maybe a few of the lines would be helped by terminations. It was these where
1k pullup resistors wouls be put on cards. 8 cards with 1k resistors would
be 125 Ohms, distributed.
Terminations of longer ribbon cables seemed more important. I remember early
floppy drives with a dip resistor pack (220/330 Ohms?) that you put on the
last or only drive. Whatever happened to this? A few years ago I bought a
1.44 floppy drive and asked about terminations (Did it require or have them?
Controlled by a jumper?) The tech support people looked at me like I was
>from Mars. Doesn't scsi use terminators?
Try your S-100 both ways, and see if it helps or hurts.
-Dave
>It's mostly a problem if there isn't documentation at the place where
>the machine is. I've never run into a machine that is really beyond my
>experience (my experience so far is PCs and BASIC-based home micros),
>but if I ever had to deal with a PDP, I'd have to spend a lot of time
>asking questions here and otherwise. Not that I foresee it. PDP will
>eventually vanish from industrial applications, just because they will
>all eventually be damaged by floods, fires, etc. And companies go
>bankrupt, too. I doubt that by the time I am 50 I will run a reasonable
>risk of seeing a PDP. Also, I don't know how to _program_ a PC. I know a
If people like Allison, Tim.Shoppa, John.Wilson, myself and others have
our way, they won't disappear... I have some 16+ -11s of various types
at home (check the home_systems page off my web page)
>bit of BASIC (who doesn't?), enough to write a simple text editor or
>something. I'm learning C but am stuck with pointers. I'm going to take
>C++ at school starting in the fall. I've tried assembly, and do notice
>that it's more straightforward than higher-level languages (I.E. there
>are no ambiguous concepts like in C, it's all called what it really is),
>but am not much good with things mathematical. Maybe I'll learn.
With older assemblers, it was pretty straightforward. Nowever, with
RISC machines which have pipelines and 'hints' and branch delays, etc.
assembly is a little more difficult. Plus, where the -11 has an
instruction set where you can MOV from memory to memory, memory to
register, register to memory and register to register, the RISC
machines generally forego memory to memory and, like the -8 before
them, require you to move things through a register first...
>How many instructions [on the -8]? I believe the Pentium has on the
>order of 80, not sure.
The -8 had 8 general purpose instructions, but it also had things
called operate microinstructions, in groups, which did multiple
things depending on which bits of the instruction were set. So,
for example, you could clear the AC (CLA) and in a separate
instruction OR the contents of the switch register with the AC (OSR),
or you could combine the two operations into one instructions (since
there were members of the same microinstruction group).
There were also the instructions for the various devices, but they
were pretty much similar in actions, but with different device numbers
encoded in them.
Megan Gentry
Former RT-11 Developer
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry zk3.dec.com |
| Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg world.std.com |
| Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of ' ' |
| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ |
| Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler |
| (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg |
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
I would also be interested in the 5140 power supply... maybe a couple
of spares...
Megan Gentry
Former RT-11 Developer
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry zk3.dec.com |
| Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg world.std.com |
| Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of ' ' |
| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ |
| Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler |
| (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg |
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
< I meant, which controllers can't correctly read 360K floppies?
None that I know of... it's the 1.2mb and 1.44 cases that can be
problematic(and system dependent).
Allison
< I was digging through some S-100 cards and came upon a Godbout active
< terminator. Do all S-100 buses require external termination, or did mor
No but some would ring so bad that was a solution. In most cases it
was a help.
< have it built into the mobo?
MOBO, mobo, nogo. AH, motherboard! No they are called backplanes dear.
<Specifically, do I need to stick this card into my IMSAI?
If it works as is reliably, maybe not. Some z80 boards really needed
it.
Allison
--KAA15878.901377905/europe.std.com--
Joe <rigdonj(a)intellistar.net> wrote (after John Rollins):
> >Picked up a nice little HP Series 100 Model 120 45600A and a few hundred
> You were lucky! Most people got stuck with a chicklet keyboard on those.
> You still see ads occasionally for people looking for standard keyboards.
"Chicklet" keyboard? What I've seen are two sizes of keyboard: one
not much wider than the terminal housing that has the QWERTY key
cluster with some function keys at the top and some compressed and
doubled-up keys, and one wide keyboard with the numeric keypad off to
the right.
The narrow keyboard is a bit of a pain to work with because of the
compromises made w/r/t key placement (e.g. the return key is
relatively small), but it's usable and has full-travel keys just like
the wide one.
-Frank McConnell
At 07:26 PM 7/24/98 -0500, you wrote:
>I was digging through some S-100 cards and came upon a Godbout active
>terminator. Do all S-100 buses require external termination, or did more
>have it built into the mobo?
Originally, the Altair (S-100) bus did not define a need for termination of
any kind. It was not until things on the bus started to speed up (using
DMA and such) that anyone apparently thought about it.
A number of companies started to put out terminator cards (active and
passive) that just plugged in, and later some manufacturers (Gotbout being
a notable example) began to incorporate (active) termination into their
backplane boards.
>Specifically, do I need to stick this card into my IMSAI?
Can't hurt. I will say however, I do seem to recall seeing a board or two
that would not run on a terminated bus, but that has been so long that I
don't evem recall what it was.
A note tho: if it is an active terminator, check the regulator voltages and
filter caps on the board with no other boards in the machine. A bad
terminator can introduce many more problems that it will solve.
-jim
---
jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com
The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw
Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174
On Jul 24, 15:50, Max Eskin wrote:
> Subject: Re: Apple ][ file conversion
> Can I make use of the Centronics interface?
Not really.
> What type of 'serial car' do you recommend? Can I use my Apple //
> w/serial port but w/o CP/M?
I was economising on letter 'd's :-) You can use any serial card in a ][
or the serial port on the //, with Kermit.
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Dept. of Computer Science
University of York
I'm back, having had a good sulk over whatever it was I left over - darned
if I remember. :)
I'm still doing apple2GSs, but I've expanded my collection of old machines to
include an apple2e - enhanced (ordered the roms from Alltech), and just today
an Amstrad ppc 640 portable, something I've wanted ever since they were on
clearance at Underwear Computers (mostly a Commodore dealer at the time)
for 200 bucks. The handle's broken off, but the computer functions, and
runs all the dos software I've thrown at it so far.
So hello again to the list. It's good to be back.
--
Jim Strickland
jim(a)calico.litterbox.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
< What I mean is, can I transfer files to a PC via the Centronics
< interface? Can I 'print' a file in wordstar with the other end of the
< cable plugged into a null modem?
No/yes. No you can't as there is no software for that and I believe the
apple parallel was definatly outgoing only. Work great for printing
and that was what I thought you referred to.
the apple][ had the problem of all disks are foreign if they weren't
created on an apple regardless of the OS used.
Allison
"Max Eskin" <maxeskin(a)hotmail.com> wrote:
> What kind of boards? Was it single-board or backplane or what?
> Also, what are the key differences between Hp and PC?
Why not start with the key similarities, it's a shorter list.
They both had 8088s and ran MS-DOS. OK, there you go.
The original HP150 looks like a 9" CRT in a box, with a keyboard
attached via coiled cord that goes to the back. Typically there would
be an HP-IB disc drive of some sort (probably with a 91xx model
number) around, most likely using 3.5" stiffies because HP was an
early adopter of the Sony 90mm medium, but even without that the 150
can be used as a terminal (it mostly looks like an HP2623A monochrome
graphics terminal).
If you look at the back, you'll see two DB25S connectors that are
serial ports, an HP-IB connector, a modular phone jack for the
keyboard cable, a power switch, a battery holder, and a couple of
covered slots for expansion. You might also see a thermal printer
mounted in the top.
OK, now let's go for some of the differences. The HP150 is not at
all compatible with the IBM PC at the hardware or ROM BIOS level. The
base system runs the 8088 at 8MHz, which was "faster" than the IBM's
4.77MHz, but on the other hand most applications don't access the
display memory directly as on the PC -- instead they either call ROM
services directly or behaved as though the console was the
aforementioned 2623A terminal, which was being emulated by in-ROM code
run by the 8088. So some of that extra speed was used up already.
The HP150 is also called the HP Touchscreen, because it has a
touch-sensitive screen, implemented as an array of IR emitters and
receivers mounted across the screen from each other. You touch
something on the screen, and the application gets (if it had asked for
same) an escape sequence from the "terminal" indicating what region
you touched. I'm thinking that the touchscreen resolution is
something like 40x14 (about half the 80x27 character display
resolution) but might be wrong on that.
Touchscreen trivia: after a while the holes that the IR beams need to
pass through get clogged up with dust, and the machine will fail its
power-on self test with code F000 (I think, it's been a long time).
HP came up with a fix: a little clear plastic shield that sits across
the holes in the bottom bezel.
Some sharp cookie at HP wrote a couple of TSRs for the 150 that
emulated parts of the IBM PC ROM BIOS for video and INT 14H
communications, and with these you could get a lot of PC applications
to run -- for example, with those I was able to get WordPerfect 4.1 to
run and even print to an attached LaserJet.
Tony has a later version of the HP150, called either the 150C or the
Touchscreen II. It has a 12" display, the touchscreen is optional
(not too surprising, it turned out to be not real desirable because
people didn't like reaching up to the screen all the time -- they'd
rather rest their arms on the desk and use the keyboard and/or I guess
a mouse), and better yet the touchscreen IR stuff is hidden behind
smooth IR-transparent plastic that doesn't collect dust so well.
All in all it arrived just before the users where I worked let it be
known that they'd really rather have IBM compatibles so they could at
least exchange floppies with people in remote offices. Good thing
HP brought out the Vectra about that time, else we might have had to
do another maintenance contract with Big Blue or something.
-Frank McConnell
PS- Hey Max! Trim quoted text!
This guy's still got a stack of QBus boards and other stuff. Get with
him directly if you're interested.
Attachment follows.
-=-=- <snip> -=-=-
On Thu, 23 Jul 1998 20:40:34 -0700, in comp.sys.dec.micro you wrote:
>>From: "SpaceKommander" <plectron(a)waypast.mars>
>>Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec.micro
>>Subject: More stuff for sale
>>Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 20:40:34 -0700
>>Organization: Cottage Software Inc. & Internet Connection
>>Lines: 43
>>Message-ID: <901376896.563602(a)linux2.cottagesoft.com>
>>NNTP-Posting-Host: 205.240.70.8
>>X-Trace: 901377147 KNIMWA/AC4608CDF0C usenet53.supernews.com
>>X-Complaints-To: newsabuse(a)supernews.com
>>X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1
>>X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3
>>Cache-Post-Path: linux2.cottagesoft.com!unknown(a)31.ict-max.cottagesoft.com
>>Path: blushng.jps.net!news.eli.net!news.burgoyne.com!news.eecs.umich.edu!nntprelay.mathworks.com!Supernews60!supernews.com!Supernews69!not-for-mail
>>
>>Stuff for sale - email me.
>>Still have the TK50, cable & controller.
>>Full set of VENIX manuals and boxes (5 volumes)
>>DECmate word processing options (1 vol) and basics(1 vol)
>>
>>boards:
>>
>>2 X G114
>>2 X G235
>>1 X H207
>>2 X H217
>>1 X M225
>>1 X M3104
>>4 X M7168
>>2 X M7169
>>1 X M7231
>>1 X M7233
>>1 X M7234
>>1 X M7235
>>1 X M7236
>>1 X M7238
>>2 X M7555
>>2 X M7606
>>2 X M7607
>>2 X M7608
>>1 X M8012
>>1 X M8027
>>1 X M8186
>>2 X M8637
>>1 X M8639
>>4 X M9047
>>2 X clearpoint Q-RAM 11B with 76 256K chips per board packed in as tight as
>>you could put them.
>>
>>Can't remember which of the above is RQDX3, but they are gone.
>>
>>Bye,
>>
>>Tom
>>
>>
>>
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272)
http://table.jps.net/~kyrrin -- also kyrrin [A-t] Jps {D=o=t} Net
Spam is bad. Spam is theft of service. Spam wastes resources. Don't spam, period.
I am a WASHINGTON STATE resident. Spam charged $500.00 per incident per Chapter 19 RCW.
At 12:01 PM 7/24/98 -0400, you wrote:
>I have a bunch of boards that I would like to move to a good home,
>otherwise I will scrap them out. _ANY_ offers over shipping costs will be
>considered.
>
>Set of boards for an HP150 system! I am not sure what the processor
>is
Are you kidding! It's an 8088! It runs at 5 MHz MOL just like a PC.
Some 150 even had the optional 8087. The 150 was one of those ALMOST IBM
PC compatibles. I have at least eight or nine of them and they're all
working. Most of them are looking for homes. Hint, hint!
(lots of HP house numbers, but I do see an 8041A and 9914A, neither of
>which are the main processors). I have a motherboard with an jack for an
>RJ45 keyboard, HPIB connector, and two RS232 ports. I also have a board
>with lots of 4164 DRAMs, another with RAMs and ROMs, another mystery
>board, and a module that says 3278 interface (HP #45641A).
The 45641 is an optional 3278 Emulation board. It costs $1200 in the '88
HP catalog.
If no one wants the boards, I'll take them for the cost of shipping.
Joe
>
>William Donzelli
>william(a)ans.net
>
>
>
>
>< So does this mean 1.2MB floppies use a lower bps than 360K disks?
>< Which controllers were these? I ought to watch out.
>
>no. All of them.
I meant, which controllers can't correctly read 360K floppies?
>
>Allison
>
>
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
< > terminator. Do all S-100 buses require external termination, or did m
< Only the motherboards that didn't have active termination require a
< terminator. In my experience, that's a fair number of mobo's out there
My experience with 4 or 5 crates I have and many I've built up.
If it runs well or the bus looks clean to the O'scope skip it. Some busses
it's helps but still look terrible (altair with the original backplanes).
My Northstar Horizon never needed one and it's currently running at 8mhz.
The VectorMX box I have with Compupro backplane needed the terminators
installed for 10mhz. The CCS I'm using with discus hard disk and 8"
floppy doesn't require it at 4mhz or 6mhz.
One thing that seems to be true, the longer the backplane the more likely
it will ring and need termination. All Altairs seem to and IMSAIs seem
to benefit if the cpu is z80 4mhz. The quietest unterminated or
terminated backplane I own is an oddball 6 slot I have that is 4 layer
technology with ground and power are on the middle two layers.
I've found a few badly designed cpu cards and memory cards that were
terrible in that they would introduce noise onto an otherwise quiet bus!
Allison
< So, can a standard XT controller be used for 8" drives?
No/yes but, it is one that is documented and modifyable. So happens
I was with NEC Microelectrnics when they introduced the 765 chip so
I sorta have an advantage when it come to floppy interfacing.
< For once, I used the correct terminology :) Compared to SCSI, all
< IDE controllers and most non-IDE/SCSI MFM drives require very little
< configuration. That's what I meant.
False truism. They are about the same just differnt. IDE with the
limitation of two drives really does limit the variable parameters.
MFM with up to 4 drives and two schemes for addressing have to have more.
SCSI you have a device address, powerup mode and a few others like
termination to select from.
< So does this mean 1.2MB floppies use a lower bps than 360K disks?
< Which controllers were these? I ought to watch out.
no. All of them.
Allison
I can confirm that is indeed the part number for a 5140 power supply. If
you look on the back of the power supply itself you will see IBM's
declaration that it should be only used with model 5140 (in several
languages!). I wouldn't mind having a spare myself. I'll contact you
directly.
Cliff Gregory
cgregory(a)lrbcg.com
-----Original Message-----
From: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
To: Cgregory <Cgregory>
Date: Friday, July 24, 1998 10:41 PM
Subject: IBM Power supplies FS (5140?)
>
>Hi guys,
> I just picked up a bunch of IBM power supplies at auction. The
>auctioneer says they're for the 5140, but I don't know how you could tell.
>
> They're all appear to be brand new and are in the original boxes. The
>box is labeled "P/N 2684220", the Power supply "P/N 2684292". Output is
>15v, 2.7A.
>
>Anybody know what they're for? And if anybody wants one, the price is $5
>shipped, each.
>
>Tom Owad
>
>--
>Sysop of Caesarville Online
>Client software at: <http://home.earthlink.net/~tomowad/>
>
>
> I just picked up a bunch of IBM power supplies at auction. The
>auctioneer says they're for the 5140, but I don't know how you could
>tell.
The 5140 is the IBM PC Convertible
Megan Gentry
Former RT-11 Developer
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry zk3.dec.com |
| Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg world.std.com |
| Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of ' ' |
| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ |
| Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler |
| (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg |
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
On Jul 25, 8:08, Pete Turnbull wrote:
> Some of those HD drives can be switched between 300/360
> rpm by the signal on pin 1 of the interface, ....
...but he meant pin 2 :-)
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Dept. of Computer Science
University of York
> < That's an immense exaggeration. P-II boxes a) Have no jumpers, as a
> < rule b) can support a 5.25" fdd if you can plug one in.
>
> Why the "if you can plug one in"? Will plug and puke really work? What
> do you do if it doesn't? What slot does the 8" controller from the XT
> plug into on the PCI only board?
>
not to butt in here, but this is what i do for a "real job" so here goes...
if the cable has the card-edge plug on it (or you have an adapter) the pII
bioses still support 5.25" floppy, it's not plug & play, you have to tell
the bios it has it AFAIK.
Most drive cables still have the card-edge connector on the slot for the B:
drive, too.
And I have only seen one all-PCI board, most retain at least 3 isa slots
because of modems and the like, so the 8" controller, if need be, would go
there (I presume, never dealt with one on a PC) It's just that nothing of
consequence to your average pentium II user is on anything with less
capacity than a CD (with the advent of Windows 98, even the boot floppy for
the first system install has become obsolete, and we can all thank Bill
Gates and his fat programs for that) anymore, so you rarely see the old 5
1/4"s in those systems. But it *could* be done, and without much
difficulty.
Chris
On Jul 24, 18:02, Max Eskin wrote:
> So, can a standard XT controller be used for 8" drives?
You need a little adapter to shuffle the signals from the 34-pin connector
to a 50-pin connector, but usually that's all. The data rate for an 8" DD
(MFM) disk is the same as for a 3.5" HD (also MFM) disk. If you want to
use 8" SD (FM) disks, you may need to add a jumper to the controller, as
not all XT controllers can handle single-density.
> So does this mean 1.2MB floppies use a lower bps than 360K disks?
> Which controllers were these? I ought to watch out.
Other way round. The 360K disks (better called 40-track double-sided)
normally run at 300 rpm and (for MFM/double density) use a data rate of 250
bps. Before HD disks, 80-track disks were made the same way. Most HD
drives, though, switch to 360 rpm and use a data rate of 300 bps (or 600
bps in HD mode). Some of those HD drives can be switched between 300/360
rpm by the signal on pin 1 of the interface, which is used for DD/HD
selection.
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Dept. of Computer Science
University of York
Doug,
Since I got my Altair, I've been boning up on the s-100 stuff. I got an
active terminator board with my Altair so that's one thing that I paid
particular attention too. Here's what I found out.
The first S-100 computers did not come with any termination but they
soon found that the long bus lines were causing ringing and false
triggering in the circuits. Ringing is caused when a signal reaches the end
of an unterminated (open) line such as a data buss.* The signal reverses
polarity and travels back in the direction that it came from just like an
echo. When it reaches another end, it changes polarity and direction again.
Now you have two positive pulses and one negative pulse where there is only
supposed to be one pulse! Consider the number of times that each line
branched off to a card socket and you can understand that now there where a
dozen or more echos on every line and they were all at different times.
It's no wonder that the systems where so difficult to make work with all
the noise on the buss.
The first solution was to use passive termination to try and eliminate
the noise but it had limited success. This method used resistor divider
networks that connected to the 0 and 5 volt power with the junctions
connected to the signal lines. They had to keep the resistances high to
minimize power supply loading and to prevent clamping the line so well that
no signal could get through. This method wasn't entirely effective due to
the combination of high clamping impedence (resistance) and unterminated
branchs (sockets).
The next solution was to use active termination. This method uses what
amounts to small individual power supplies on each line to hold the line
voltage at a level between 0 and the maximum siganl level (5 volts). This
method offered a lower clamping impedence AND less power supply loading and
was better able to prevent the ringing.
The active terminator baords were a very popular accessory and a lot of
people where making and selling them. In fact, I have an article from one
of the first Byte magazines about how to make your own active terminator
board. I believe that the later S-100 systems like the N* Horizon came with
termination built into the MB. The ringing problem in the early Altairs
was made worse by use of the long wires that ran from the MB to the front
panel. Better designs eliminated a lot the sources of the ringing. FWIW
this is EXACTLY the reason that you still have to terminate SCSI busses and
disk drive cabling. There is still an ongoing debate in the SCSI community
about the nessecity/benefits of active vs passive termination.
* OK OK! Just for you purists, ringing is caused ANYTIME a signal makes a
transistion from one impedence to another. The bigger the change, the
bigger the reflected signal. That's why when ****power**** or signal
distortion counts, you have to try and match all the impedences in the
signal path. That means that your signal source such as an antenna, the
signal destination such as your TV set and the interconnecting cableing all
have to have the same impedence or you have to use a matching transformer
to match the impedences. Go look at the back of your televison, you'll
usually see a matching transformer and 300 Ohm and 75 Ohm inputs. The two
inputs are there so that you can use the one that matches the impedence of
the lead that brings the signal into your home. Most TV antennas have a
300 Ohm Impedence. The round coaxial cable has an impedence of 75 Ohms. If
you are using it then there should also be a small matching transformer on
your antenna.
Joe
At 07:26 PM 7/24/98 -0500, you wrote:
>I was digging through some S-100 cards and came upon a Godbout active
>terminator. Do all S-100 buses require external termination, or did more
>have it built into the mobo? Specifically, do I need to stick this card
>into my IMSAI?
>
>-- Doug
>
>
Heads up in Midland, Michigan! (or vicinity).
This fellow is looking for a "recycler" to get rid of an 11/84. This
sounds to me like (1), a prime opportunity for any of our rescue folk in
the midwest, and (2), a prime opportunity to educate the fellow getting
rid of it that a recycler is not the only answer.
Please contact him directly if you can help. Thanks!
Attachment follows.
-=-=- <snip> -=-=-
On Fri, 24 Jul 1998 20:04:52 GMT, in alt.sys.pdp11 you wrote:
>>From: yellow_fiero(a)my-dejanews.com
>>Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp11
>>Subject: Getting rid of a PDP-11 follow-up
>>Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 20:04:52 GMT
>>Organization: Deja News - The Leader in Internet Discussion
>>Lines: 26
>>Message-ID: <6papd5$kfh$1(a)nnrp1.dejanews.com>
>>NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.154.221.12
>>X-Article-Creation-Date: Fri Jul 24 20:04:52 1998 GMT
>>X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 4.01; Windows 95)
>>X-Http-Proxy: 1.0 CORPNT45
>>Path: blushng.jps.net!news.eli.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!204.238.120.130!news-feeds.jump.net!nntp2.dejanews.com!nnrp1.dejanews.com!not-for-mail
>>
>>Sorry about the confusion, the PDP-11/84 is located in Midland, MI USA. We
>>have the CPU, two RL02 disk drives, a TK50R tape, and RA81, and roughly 72 of
>>each kind of process interface I/O points (analog input, analog output,
>>digital input, digital output) with boards made by a company called Computec
>>(later called Interautomation - located in Canada). Our DEC runs seven 500
>>gallon mixers, and has done so since the 70s.
>>
>>I have also found a very old PDP-11 that runs our rs-232 interface. I don't
>>have a model number on it, but interestingly enough, I took the top cover off
>>and it has wire-wrapped boards!!! I was surprised that it was still running
>>our process, but it is! The only stampings on it are the following:
>>
>>M11
>>BA11E
>>S-1285
>>
>>located on the back panel. What could this be?
>>
>>Anyway, I'm still looking for a recycler. I have a complete list of all
>>components and model numbers if anyone finds it necessary. Thanks for your
>>responses, and I will post this note also.
>>
>>Robert Most.
>>
>>-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
>>http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272)
http://table.jps.net/~kyrrin -- also kyrrin [A-t] Jps {D=o=t} Net
Spam is bad. Spam is theft of service. Spam wastes resources. Don't spam, period.
I am a WASHINGTON STATE resident. Spam charged $500.00 per incident per Chapter 19 RCW.
>> Can anyone give Seth a good push in the right direction? If so,
>> give him a buzz.
>I posted this on Usenet specifically so everyone here on 'classiccmp'
>could stop being sick of my "I want a PDP!" whining ;)
>
>Oh well, I'll take what publicity I can get, eh?
Heck, you're not the only one who wants an -8...
Megan Gentry
Former RT-11 Developer
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry zk3.dec.com |
| Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg world.std.com |
| Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of ' ' |
| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ |
| Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler |
| (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg |
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
>I was digging through some S-100 cards and came upon a Godbout active
>terminator. Do all S-100 buses require external termination, or did
more
>have it built into the mobo? Specifically, do I need to stick this
card
>into my IMSAI?
>
It depends on what kind of motherboard you have. Typically, the
terminator was at the end opposite where the front panel or CPU card
plugged in. Early S-100 motherboards ran at only 2 Mhz (8080 CPU) or
2.5 Mhz (early Z-80) so termination wasn't quite so important. Later,
when speeds were pushed past 4Mhz the terminator became crucial to
reliability. Look at the back end of your motherboard, if you don't
see an array of resistors, about 90 or so, then put the Godbout board
in the very last slot, and your CPU card as close as possible to the
front slot, right behind the front panel.
I used one when I went to 4Mhz on the original 22 slot IMSAI
motherboard, it does help. After the IMSAI MB wore out I switched to
Thinkertoys and Godbout (later called Compupro) motherboards, they had
the terminator built in.
Jack Peacock
Picked up a nice little HP Series 100 Model 120 45600A and a few hundred
other numbers on the bottom... Anyways, it's a very interesting model.
Works fine, has two DB-25 ports(modem and printer, both serial?) and an
HP-IB port, and uses two small batteries that look like N size or close to
that. And a cute keyboard, lotso keys but very small. Anyways... Does
anyone know anything about it? I couldn't find anything on HP's web site,
and nothing showed up immediatley on web searches. What kind of terminal is
it? Are the ports normal RS-232? What does the HP-IB port do, and how do I
access it? So many questions... Too bad there was no manual. But then what
do you expect for $5? At least I got a keyboard...
--------------------------------------------------------------
| http://members.tripod.com/~jrollins/index.html - Computers |
| http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/1681/ - Star Trek |
| Orham(a)qth.net list admin KD7BCY |
--------------------------------------------------------------
An RD54 is an oem version of the Maxtor 2190 disk drive. You might have
better luck looking for specs on that drive. AFAIK it is identical to
the RD54 except for the label DEC puts on it.
Jack Peacock
-----Original Message-----
From: emanuel stiebler [mailto:emu@ecubics.com]
Sent: Friday, July 24, 1998 10:00 AM
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
Subject: ST506 & RD54
Hi all,
Where on the net, i could find the ST506 specification, or something
like a
RD54 OEM-Manual ?
thanks,
emanuel
John Rollins <rexstout(a)uswest.net> wrote:
> Picked up a nice little HP Series 100 Model 120 45600A and a few hundred
It's sort of a successor to the 125 and predecessor to the 150. It's
an HP2382 "Shadow" terminal housing with a CP/M computer (I think a
Z80 but I can't recall for sure) inside.
The HP-IB port would be used to connect to an external disc drive,
just like on a 150 and using pretty much the same 91xx disc drives. I
think I remember using one with a 9121D? -- the one with two
single-sided stiffies.
I can't recall whether it will play terminal without CP/M. I do
remember that in order to get it to play block-mode capable terminal
(so it could be used with View aka V/3000 aka VPLUS/3000) it needed
to boot CP/M and run a program, and vaguely recall that it could be
a not-block-mode-capable terminal without that program (and maybe
without loading CP/M).
One other thing I recall about it is that it had a precursor to PAM
(Personal Application Manager -- a primitive shell/application
launcher that later turned up on the 150, 110, some HP9000s, and the
Vectra) that was autostarted by CP/M immediately following boot. It
used function keys to start the applications, so you could only have
seven or eight defined for it to start.
The RS232 ports are probably DB25S connectors and I think they look
like DTE -- similar pinout to an IBM PC async card with a DB25P.
-Frank McConnell
Here is a message that I received today, I forward it to all you fellow
Commodore enthusiasts, if you are interested in some nice PET stuff (keep me
in mind for PET books and software, will ya?)
> Subject: PET disposal
> Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 11:05:38 -0600
> From: Sjoerd Schaafsma <rocklake(a)telusplanet.net>
> Reply-To: rocklake(a)agt.net
>Organization: University of Lethbridge
> To: foxnhare(a)goldrush.com
>
> HI Larry,
>
> I'm in Lethbridge Alberta, and would like to dispose of a few PETs,
> 4032, 8032, and disk drives, I just can't bring myself to junk 'em.
> Know of any interested parties?
>
>
--
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
Larry Anderson - Sysop of Silicon Realms BBS (300-2400bd) (209) 754-1363
Visit my Commodore 8-Bit web page at:
http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/commodore.html
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
> From: "Sie Raybould" <sie(a)systemfile.demon.co.uk>
> Subject: WTB: Jupiter Ace
>
> Anyone got a Jupiter Ace they'd be prepared to part with ?
>
> Sie
I just was reading in a book about a sinclair ROM replacement for FORTH that
sounds alot like the Jupiter Ace's features. Multi-task up to four programs,
etc. It was referred to the "FORTH in ROM by David Husband". Hope that helps any.
--
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
Larry Anderson - Sysop of Silicon Realms BBS (300-2400bd) (209) 754-1363
Visit my Commodore 8-Bit web page at:
http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/commodore.html
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
Hi guys,
I just picked up a bunch of IBM power supplies at auction. The
auctioneer says they're for the 5140, but I don't know how you could tell.
They're all appear to be brand new and are in the original boxes. The
box is labeled "P/N 2684220", the Power supply "P/N 2684292". Output is
15v, 2.7A.
Anybody know what they're for? And if anybody wants one, the price is $5
shipped, each.
Tom Owad
--
Sysop of Caesarville Online
Client software at: <http://home.earthlink.net/~tomowad/>
I just got a funny cartridge for the early Commodore PC-10 and PC-20 series
computers. There 2 connectors, one plugs into the modem port and the other
into the printer port. Then power up the machine and a 2 digit alpha/numeric
HEX LED displays the problem. Commodore #380025-01.
Anyone have any info on this?
Rich Cini/WUGNET <nospam_rcini(a)msn.com>
- ClubWin/CW6
- MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking
- Preserver of "classic" computers
<<<< ========== reply separator ========== >>>>>
< Of course, this is a bit of a problem for people like me, who are too
< young for an IMSAI, never mind a PDP8
How is this a problem? You learned how to run a PC, programming a PDP-8
is at least an order of magnitude simpler. Seriously, the instruction
set and archetecture is so simple it's downright inviting. The DG Novas
are pretty straight forward too. The old machines didn't have to be huge,
complex or networked. They only had to work.
Allison
< Can I make use of the Centronics interface?
Yes with any current printer just like a PC, though the connector may be
different.
<What type of 'serial car' do you recommend?
Toyota, I've had good luck. Oh sorry, serial card, what ever you have or
can get. Jamco still sells apple][ cards and stuff.
< Can I use my Apple //c w/serial port but w/o CP/M?
Sure!
< >Apple ][ disks don't use standard FM or MFM encoding, so Macs and PCs
< can't
< >read them. If you can find a serial car for the Apple, the easiest wa
< >would be to get a copy of Kermit-65 (for DOS 3.3 files) and/or Kermit8
< >(for CP/M) and transfer the files over a serial link -- that's what I
or MDM, or one of a dozen others for each OS.
< >Kermit-65 comes with instructions on how to get it into an Apple that
< >doesn't already have any kind of file transfer software, and IIRC
< Kermit80
< >has some similar instructions. You can get Kermit by anonymous ftp
< from
< >ftp.columbia.edu, or http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/, or from any of
< >several mirror sites.
Kermit is well known and supported by most PC transfer programs.
Max, get an editor. Either that or don't use LYNX for mail, try elm or
pine.
Allison
< I assume you mean the apps. CP/M and DOS are fairly similar
Similar yes, processors are very different. Z80 code will not run on a
PC (without an emulator) and PC software is useless to cp/m z80.
< Why do you need an 8" controller? The same floppy controller can be
< used for both 5.25" and 3.5". There never were any jumpers for any
Why is the sky blue. If I need to read a 8" of course.
< In fact, I am not familiar with any real difference between PCI and
< ISA controllers. I have never had any floppy problems. The reason
Huge differce. also the Floppy controller is on the MB for most current
generation P-II PCs.
< edge connectors, unlike 3.5" which use BERG strips (is that what
< they're called?). This is the biggest problem one is likely to have.
Trivial problem. the cables have both. The real problem is when the
software goes to work or out to lunch.
Allison
At 02:47 PM 7/24/98 GMT, you wrote:
>>>From: Bill Kent <billakent(a)hotmail.com>
>>>My name is Bill Kent and I am working on a story for a major online
>>>publication. The focus is on users who use what others might consider
>>>"obsolete" technology. I would like to speak to a few users who use
>>>oder PCs (386 and below) for productivity apps. I'm talking about in
>>>business, education, or home. If you use them as servers or something
>>>else, that's super, I'd like to hear about it. I'm not interested in
>>>hobbyists who just enjoying hacking the machines. If it requires a
>>>soldering iron, it's too complex for this article.
Well, let's see. I use a Radio Shack model 100 (like many people) for
taking notes/writing away from home. Once I get my Starlet fixed, I'll be
doing the same with that (CP/M laptop, with Wordstar in ROM). I also have
an Outbound notebook (mac clone laptop ca. 1990) that I and my girlfriend
use.
She (Rachel Grilley, <auntierae(a)california.com>) also uses older macs in
her classroom to teach her first graders reading, math, science, etc. They
range from plusses to IIci's.
My voicemail system is currently running on a 286/512K/40mb system, but is
about to be upgraded Real Soon Now to a shoebox-sized 386sx system I picked
up recently at a surplus place. (Same VM card/software, just different
computer -- actually can run on an 8088 even.)
I have an Atari Portfolio (8088, DOS, size of a video tape) that I carry
around for taking notes.
I also use my Atari ST's and Falcons for music sequencing/recording.
(Well, not as much as I like, but once I win the lottery...) I can also
put you in touch with a lot of people who are using their ST's a lot.
And lastly, my main machine is a 486 laptop, but I have written a DOS-based
application to manage the San Francisco Free List (see
<http://www.sinasohn.com/freelist/> for more info) including maintaining
the database of events, building daily and monthly web pages, and
generating weekly event listings. Eventually, I'll probably move that onto
a different DOS-based laptop so others can assist in maintaining the events
database.
Anyway, feel free to drop me a note about any of the above (or anyhthing
else, for that matter).
--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/
Of course, this is a bit of a problem for people like me, who are too
young for an IMSAI, never mind a PDP8
>I've used - and repaired - a lot of embedded control systems using
>machines like the PDP11, PDP8, Data General Nova, etc. These machines
>work as well today as they did 25 years ago when they were made, they
>still do the same job running the same software. There is simply no
>reason to replace a reliable, documented solution with a modern
>undocumented one.
>
It's not quite the same. All PC components are third-party and thus
there is no guarantee it will work quite right. Are the
well-documented IBM PC, XT, and AT machines better in this sense?
Since you have the manuals, you could probably build your own MDA
card!
>Contrast that to the modern PC. If it fails, you swap boards until it
>works again, never really knowing that you've found the fault. And you
>don't know that the new video card (say) won't behave slightly
>differently to the old one. Seen it happen far to often to want to
depend
>on such a machine.
>
>Problem is, I'm an electronic engineer. So I tend to use computers -
>including old ones - to help with that work. And I'm not afraid of
taking
>a soldering iron to them.
>
>Case in point. 10 minutes ago I needed to examine the contents of a ROM
>chip - an obscure old ROM chip - from a word processing system I'm
>repairing. I've got a special card in an old IBM XT that'll do that.
Not
>hardware hacking per se, though - just a homemade tool to help with my
work.
>
>> >>I'd like to hear stories about how this technology can be applied
to a
>> >>job and does it well. The general slant of the article is to be
>> >>positive, but if anyone has any good stories about failures which
>> >>occurred because you can't do EVERYTHING with older technology.
>
>That is _very_ uncommon. A lot of old machines are in embedded control
>systems, which have been running the same program since they were made.
>They don't stop running it properly just because a new machine has come
>on the market...
>
>And anyway, CPU speed is often needed (for mainstream applications)
only
>to support the user interface. I personally have formatted and printed
a
>200 page manual using TeX/LaTeX on a 386 PC. A 286 would probably have
>done it just as well. TeX may not be user friendly for the new user,
but
>it certainly is friendly to the experienced user who wants a text
>formatter that doesn't get in the way.
>
>
>> >>
>> >>mailto:billakent@hotmail.com
>
>-tony
>
>
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What kind of boards? Was it single-board or backplane or what?
Also, what are the key differences between Hp and PC?
>>I have a bunch of boards that I would like to move to a good home,
>>otherwise I will scrap them out. _ANY_ offers over shipping costs will
be
>>considered.
>>
>>Set of boards for an HP150 system! I am not sure what the processor
>>is
>
> Are you kidding! It's an 8088! It runs at 5 MHz MOL just like a PC.
>Some 150 even had the optional 8087. The 150 was one of those ALMOST
IBM
>PC compatibles. I have at least eight or nine of them and they're all
>working. Most of them are looking for homes. Hint, hint!
>
>(lots of HP house numbers, but I do see an 8041A and 9914A, neither of
>>which are the main processors). I have a motherboard with an jack for
an
>>RJ45 keyboard, HPIB connector, and two RS232 ports. I also have a
board
>>with lots of 4164 DRAMs, another with RAMs and ROMs, another mystery
>>board, and a module that says 3278 interface (HP #45641A).
>
> The 45641 is an optional 3278 Emulation board. It costs $1200 in the
'88
>HP catalog.
>
> If no one wants the boards, I'll take them for the cost of shipping.
>
> Joe
>>
>>William Donzelli
>>william(a)ans.net
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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I assume you mean the apps. CP/M and DOS are fairly similar
>While I do some of it on PC, more over time there are things I can do
>faster and easier on the s100 crate or even the Kaypro.
>
I don't know
>I do, did you misread?
>
Why do you need an 8" controller? The same floppy controller can be
used for both 5.25" and 3.5". There never were any jumpers for any
MFM drives, nor have I seen much for IDE drives. This has nothing to
do with PCI or PnP. Just set the correct type in the BIOS and that's it
>Why the "if you can plug one in"? Will plug and puke really work?
What
>do you do if it doesn't? What slot does the 8" controller from the XT
>plug into on the PCI only board?
In fact, I am not familiar with any real difference between PCI and
ISA controllers. I have never had any floppy problems. The reason
why I said 'if you can plug one in' is because the 5.25" drives use
edge connectors, unlike 3.5" which use BERG strips (is that what
they're called?). This is the biggest problem one is likely to have.
>
>Keeping in mind I was referring to systems in place and working as they
>have for more years that M$ existed. Any bugs and the like have long
>since been worked out or are at least well known. For someone makeing
>steel parts or whatnot the OS, CPU and all that jazz really doesn't
>matter when his task is to punch holes in 500 pieces a day.
>
>Allison
>
>
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I almost forgot to post about this. I recently acquired a complete
Heathkit H89 system, with dual floppies and a small printer (OkiData
Microline 82, serial), all in excellent condition.
I got with it a bunch of manuals and floppies, among them CP/M boot
diskettes. As I recall, this is a Z80-based system, yes? Is it possible to
use a hard drive on it?
Thanks in advance.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272)
(Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin(a)jps.net)
"Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own
human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."
Can I make use of the Centronics interface? What type of 'serial car'
do you recommend? Can I use my Apple //c w/serial port but w/o CP/M?
>Apple ][ disks don't use standard FM or MFM encoding, so Macs and PCs
can't
>read them. If you can find a serial car for the Apple, the easiest way
>would be to get a copy of Kermit-65 (for DOS 3.3 files) and/or Kermit80
>(for CP/M) and transfer the files over a serial link -- that's what I
do.
>
>Kermit-65 comes with instructions on how to get it into an Apple that
>doesn't already have any kind of file transfer software, and IIRC
Kermit80
>has some similar instructions. You can get Kermit by anonymous ftp
from
>ftp.columbia.edu, or http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/, or from any of
>several mirror sites.
>
>
>--
>
>Pete Peter Turnbull
> Dept. of Computer Science
> University of York
>
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On Jul 24, 13:57, Max Eskin wrote:
> Subject: Apple ][ file conversion
> Several months ago, I was given an A][+, with a z80 card and a bunch
> of program, as well as data, disks. It has a printer interface card.
> What is the easiest way to transfer the data on these disks (CP/M 3.3
> various programs, mainly Wordstar 2.x) onto a PC or mac? Is there a
> PC program that will read Apple CP/M disks? I couldn't easily do it
> with a Mac since these are 5.25" disks.
Apple ][ disks don't use standard FM or MFM encoding, so Macs and PCs can't
read them. If you can find a serial car for the Apple, the easiest way
would be to get a copy of Kermit-65 (for DOS 3.3 files) and/or Kermit80
(for CP/M) and transfer the files over a serial link -- that's what I do.
Kermit-65 comes with instructions on how to get it into an Apple that
doesn't already have any kind of file transfer software, and IIRC Kermit80
has some similar instructions. You can get Kermit by anonymous ftp from
ftp.columbia.edu, or http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/, or from any of
several mirror sites.
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Dept. of Computer Science
University of York
Several months ago, I was given an A][+, with a z80 card and a bunch
of program, as well as data, disks. It has a printer interface card.
What is the easiest way to transfer the data on these disks (CP/M 3.3
various programs, mainly Wordstar 2.x) onto a PC or mac? Is there a
PC program that will read Apple CP/M disks? I couldn't easily do it
with a Mac since these are 5.25" disks.
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< In general, I hope everyone that prides themselves of running
< Electric Pencil on their Altairs is doing it for practical purposes,
< and not because they just want to show off that they won't use
< a PC.
While I do some of it on PC, more over time there are things I can do
faster and easier on the s100 crate or even the Kaypro.
< A server for what? You must have an Interlnk client if you are using
< Intersrvr, unless you hacked the protocol...
< >
< >I do use an old 386sx/25 as a headless server using MSdos6.22 intersvr
< >and interlnk software and a parallel port data cable(LapLink).
I do, did you misread?
< I would bet that _most_ hackers do it for commercial/industrial
< reasons. FOr everyone who built their own z80, hundreds came off the
< assembly line.
And hundreds more were modified. Very few were built from the ground up
but, many were built from an intermediate state. IE: buy a s100 z80 cpu
>from company A, ram from B, floppy controller from n, floppy from S
and a box from a supplier of nothing but boxes... that constitues a
built z80 system circa 1980ish.
< >documented at best.
< That's an immense exaggeration. P-II boxes a) Have no jumpers, as a
< rule b) can support a 5.25" fdd if you can plug one in.
Why the "if you can plug one in"? Will plug and puke really work? What
do you do if it doesn't? What slot does the 8" controller from the XT
plug into on the PCI only board?
< >size. There are many PDP-8s (1970s tech), PDP-11s (late 70s into the
< >80s tech) and Data General Novas still in service as control systems
< >where they do the same thing everyday as the have for the last 20+
< years.
<
< I agree with that. It's impressive how many people think Windows NT
< is a safer option than UNIXoids though NT is only 1/3 as old...
Keeping in mind I was referring to systems in place and working as they
have for more years that M$ existed. Any bugs and the like have long
since been worked out or are at least well known. For someone makeing
steel parts or whatnot the OS, CPU and all that jazz really doesn't
matter when his task is to punch holes in 500 pieces a day.
Allison
< From: Wayne Cox <wcox(a)mis.usaeroteam.com>
^^^^^^^^^^
Wayne, you fly?
< > It's roughly the same thing as a Zenith Z90. I have the manual here (i
<
< If that's the one I'm thinking of, they started out as VT52 terminal
< clones, sold by Heath/Zenith. The on-board personal computer was an
< afterthought, I think. Former employer had a bunch. You may be able to
< tap directly into the terminal portion if you have need for a plain old
< VT52.
yes it started as H19 terminal, the terminal board is separate from the
H8x/Z9x computer board. It makes a good VT52/ansi terminal. I know I
bought one back in the summer of '79 (H19 hit that is). Still have it
and it still works.
Allison
I have a bunch of boards that I would like to move to a good home,
otherwise I will scrap them out. _ANY_ offers over shipping costs will be
considered.
Set of boards for an HP150 system! I am not sure what the processor
is (lots of HP house numbers, but I do see an 8041A and 9914A, neither of
which are the main processors). I have a motherboard with an jack for an
RJ45 keyboard, HPIB connector, and two RS232 ports. I also have a board
with lots of 4164 DRAMs, another with RAMs and ROMs, another mystery
board, and a module that says 3278 interface (HP #45641A).
William Donzelli
william(a)ans.net
< Where on the net, i could find the ST506 specification, or something lik
< RD54 OEM-Manual ?
RD54 is a MAXTOR 2190, so try them.
RD53 is micropolus 1325
rd52 is Quantum D540
RD32 is seagate ST251
rd31 is seagate st225
rd51 is seagate st412
rd50 is sugart/seagate st506
Allison
since i requested today off, i hit the thrift stores since i havent been able
to recently. i found a complete TI professional but left it as i presume it's
just an xt clone. found a //c drive in the box, but at $10, i left it. i did
get:
copy 2+ version 9 complete
quark catalyst with disks
prodos inside and out w/ disk
beagle graphics +disk
something called talk is cheap ver 3.1 w/ disk
beagle bros pronto dos/disk
bb triple dump /disk
a book called the dostalk scrapbook which explains apple dos 3.3
epson printer interface for apple //c
apple //c tech ref.
also got a nice pc tower case for $2 after i exclaimed it was blank and
nothing inside. lol.
there were a few more apple manuals and some beagle brothers software called
timeout-something or other, but i left that. might go back again.
david
I have a customer (Yes, Virginia, I have two customers) who has an Epson
QX-10 running CP/M.
His (external) hard disk is reporting bad sectors; he wishes to switch to an
ST-506/412 Vertex 185, which I think is 20 MB.
I would like to test the Vertex 185 under Spinrite (MS-DOS) and expand the
bad track table, if Spinrite discovers more problems.
I have questions --
Will the bad track information carry over under CP/M, and will its format
utility see the MS-DOS info? Otherwise, should we just make a list and enter
it?
Is there a low-level format utility in CP/M? Is it necessary, as under
MS-DOS?
What is the QX-10 controller card going to think of a different hard drive?
Will it try to run the new drive as a 10 MB?
Thanks,
manney(a)lrbcg.com
What do you use now?
>Like the Kaypro 4/84 (ca 1984) that I use to run my billings on.
In general, I hope everyone that prides themselves of running
Electric Pencil on their Altairs is doing it for practical purposes,
and not because they just want to show off that they won't use
a PC.
>
>I have a PDP-11/73 for development and continuation support use. Also
>very handy for getting from Digital Equipment Corp designed and
>propritary media to other more common use media.
>
A server for what? You must have an Interlnk client if you are using
Intersrvr, unless you hacked the protocol...
>
>I do use an old 386sx/25 as a headless server using MSdos6.22 intersvr
>and interlnk software and a parallel port data cable(LapLink).
I would bet that _most_ hackers do it for commercial/industrial
reasons. FOr everyone who built their own z80, hundreds came off the
assembly line.
>
>All people that modify "hack" machines are not all hobbiests. As a
>professional I need for various reasons to read disks created years
>ago sometimes really old like the 8" media from the late 70s early 80s.
>I have old machines to do this but a handy one is an XT clone using a
>modified floppy controller with and old 8" drive. You cannot buy that
>capability now but, companies have archives that are sometimes very old
>that may need to be accessed.
>
>Even your common P-II box is hard pressed to read older 5.25" format
>floppies! At a minimum you would have to find an apporiate drive and
>then by trial and error figure the jumpers out as new machines a
scantily
>documented at best.
That's an immense exaggeration. P-II boxes a) Have no jumpers, as a
rule b) can support a 5.25" fdd if you can plug one in.
What other difference can there be?
>In computers old technology and new are often only different in speed
or
>size. There are many PDP-8s (1970s tech), PDP-11s (late 70s into the
>80s tech) and Data General Novas still in service as control systems
>where they do the same thing everyday as the have for the last 20+
years.
I agree with that. It's impressive how many people think Windows NT
is a safer option than UNIXoids though NT is only 1/3 as old...
> Mature stable systems we know how to use.
>
>
>Allison
>
>
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What is the official meaning of the symbol #?
>BTW, in the UK # is _never_ called "pound". "Hash" is the most usual
>name, followed by "gate" and "hatch". "Pound" means a script L with a
>couple of horizontal bars through it :-)
>
How is 'recall' done? Where is the number stored? As for the
keypad configurations, I'm sure it all goes back to competing
calculator models.
>That's what I was afraid of. Although a neater hack still would be a
>modified dial that did 11 pulses for * and 12 for #. Mechanically
>possible, but I wouldn't want to try and modify the old dial.
>
>There is a blanked-off hole in most type 746 phones that can
accommodate
>1 or 2 buttons, and I was thinking of putting # and * there, but this
is
>more usually used for a "recall" button.
>
>Incidentally, does anyone know why "timed break" recall buttons are
>replacing local earth ones? And how long is the break?
>
>> While a pulse-to-DTMF converter is a neat hack (and these sort of
>> converters were installed in some step-by-step exchanges in the US,
at
>> least there were in my local exchange when we were step-by-step, but
come
>> to think of it I don't know why, unless they were converting my pulse
>> dialed digits to DTMF so that some other adjunct piece of equipment
such
>> as a Dialed Number Recorder could know what digits I was dialing, for
>> purposes of surveillance ;) it'd be easier to just buy a cheap DTMF
phone.
>
>Sam, you should be ashamed of yourself. The object of the exercise was
>not to get a DTMF phone, but to get one with a _rotary dial_. I
already
>have a DTMF phone, and I am interested in thes project _purely_ for
hack
>value.
>
>Slightly less far off topic, does anyone know the reason for the
>divergence in layout between phone keypads and computer ones, i.e.
>
>123 789
>456 vs. 456 ?
>789 123
> 0 0
>
>Which came first?
>
>Philip.
>
>
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Well, folks, here's an opportunity to let it be known that doing a
decent job doesn't always require the latest P-II! This fellow's looking
for quotes from folks who use 'legacy' equipment in production
environments.
Unfortunately, he's not interested in hardware hack type stories. I
kind of dislike his statement of 'if it takes a soldering iron, it's too
complex for this article,' but hey, who knows?
Enjoy. Attachment follows.
-=-=- <snip> -=-=-
On Fri, 24 Jul 1998 16:34:44 +0800, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc you wrote:
>>From: Bill Kent <billakent(a)hotmail.com>
>>Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc
>>Subject: Writer wants to quote users
>>Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 16:34:44 +0800
>>Organization: None to speak of
>>Lines: 20
>>Message-ID: <35B84722.2B9BEDA0(a)hotmail.com>
>>Reply-To: billakent(a)hotmail.com
>>NNTP-Posting-Host: spoff76.pacific.net.sg
>>Mime-Version: 1.0
>>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>>X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I)
>>Path: blushng.jps.net!news.eli.net!diablo.quiknet.com!csn!nntp-xfer-2.csn.net!pulsar.dimensional.com!dimensional.com!priori!netnews.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.he.net!newsserver.pacific.net.sg!not-for-mail
>>
>>Good Day,
>>
>>My name is Bill Kent and I am working on a story for a major online
>>publication. The focus is on users who use what others might consider
>>"obsolete" technology. I would like to speak to a few users who use
>>oder PCs (386 and below) for productivity apps. I'm talking about in
>>business, education, or home. If you use them as servers or something
>>else, that's super, I'd like to hear about it. I'm not interested in
>>hobbyists who just enjoying hacking the machines. If it requires a
>>soldering iron, it's too complex for this article.
>>
>>I'd like to hear stories about how this technology can be applied to a
>>job and does it well. The general slant of the article is to be
>>positive, but if anyone has any good stories about failures which
>>occurred because you can't do EVERYTHING with older technology.
>>
>>mailto:billakent@hotmail.com
>>
>>Thank you.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272)
http://table.jps.net/~kyrrin -- also kyrrin [A-t] Jps {D=o=t} Net
Spam is bad. Spam is theft of service. Spam wastes resources. Don't spam, period.
I am a WASHINGTON STATE resident. Spam charged $500.00 per incident per Chapter 19 RCW.
>> BTW, in the UK # is _never_ called "pound". "Hash" is the most usual
> BT tend to call it 'square'. Confused me the first time I heard it.
I've not met that, although I have, come to think of it, met
"Octothorpe" (I think it was in "Understanding Telephone Electronics").
Ironically, the New Scientist article about digital exchanges (1981?)
that called it "hatch" printed it as a square...
(FWIW, "-thorpe" is often found as a placename element in the Danelaw -
parts of England officially occupied by Vikings before the Norman
conquest - and it means village, equivalent to German "Dorf".)
> Cutting the extra 2 slots in the cam would be quite easy with a dividing
> head (no, I'm not offering to do it, right :-)). The problem is finding
> an arrangement of 12 holes in the dial plate that (a) allows you to dial
> all of them and (b) maintains the required pause between letting go of the
> dial and sending the first pulse (this is part of the spec).
You're in danger of making the same mistake as Sam. Remember the pulses
only go to my counter chip, not to the exchange, so the pause after
letting go of the dial is not essential. That said, it is useful if
your finger is shaking as you dial...
My idea was to have a moveable finger stop like on some smaller dials.
This would normally sit quite close to the 1 position, leaving room for
* and # after the zero, but when you dialled against it it would be
pushed to its conventional rest position.
Philip.
PS I'm off on holiday for a week. I won't (intentionally) set the list
to Postpone, but I probably won't read all the messages...
Can anyone give Seth a good push in the right direction? If so, give
him a buzz.
SPECIAL NOTE: John, if you're looking to clear out space in the form
of your PDP-11/34, this could be a great opportunity.
Attachment follows.
-=-=- <snip> -=-=-
On 24 Jul 1998 02:51:10 EDT, in comp.sys.dec you wrote:
>>From: "Seth J. Morabito" <sethjm(a)ricochet.net>
>>Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec,comp.sys.dec.micro
>>Subject: WANTED: PDP-11 or PDP-8
>>Date: 24 Jul 1998 02:51:10 EDT
>>Organization: Loom Communications
>>Lines: 18
>>Message-ID: <35B82E1E.E7E6755C(a)ricochet.net>
>>Reply-To: sethm(a)loomcom.com
>>NNTP-Posting-Host: motherbrain.squeep.com
>>Mime-Version: 1.0
>>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>>X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.0.35 i586)
>>Path: blushng.jps.net!news.eli.net!news.inconnect.com!xmission!news.uoregon.edu!hammer.uoregon.edu!newshub.northeast.verio.net!newspeer.monmouth.com!newsfeed.concentric.net!global-news-master
>>Xref: blushng.jps.net comp.sys.dec:2231 comp.sys.dec.micro:262
>>
>>Hello folks,
>>
>>I would dearly love to find a pdp-11 (preferably with some sort of
>>secondary storage, including RX01,RX02,RK05,RL02, or RD53) or, much more
>>preferably, a pdp-8 (original 8, 8i, or 8e), somewhere convenient to
>>the San Francisco Bay Area, California. Software and manuals are,
>>of course, always welcome!
>>
>>Surely, someone must be getting ready to de-commission a system which
>>has served its purpose and is no longer needed? I would love to take
>>it off your hands! I preserve and restore old systems, both for the
>>memories and for the enjoyment of it. DEC has always been my favorite,
>>for sentimental reasons. And I can't bear the thought of any of that
>>classic equipment going to scrap.
>>
>>Thank you,
>>
>>-Seth Morabito
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272)
http://table.jps.net/~kyrrin -- also kyrrin [A-t] Jps {D=o=t} Net
Spam is bad. Spam is theft of service. Spam wastes resources. Don't spam, period.
I am a WASHINGTON STATE resident. Spam charged $500.00 per incident per Chapter 19 RCW.
Well, I figured since my glomming on to one of these systems is pretty
much guaranteed, I'd let the rest of you know about them.
My father is one of the managers of the FAA Data Center in Seattle, WA.
He is excessing 12 Data General MV/15000 systems.
As far as I can tell, the systems include:
3 Disk Units
1 RtR 9 Track Tape Unit
1 MPU Unit
1 Console Unit
Mind you, this is a lot of steel to move (I'm prolly going to have a
moving company bring me mine) not to mention store (I'm going to be
moving my entire collection to some cheap office space here in Lawrence,
MA).
For those of you who dont know what the excess process is, this is the
way I understand it.
1. Government agency decides they dont need something anymore
(done)
2. Agency begins porting any applications on system (a month to
go)
3. Agency offers system to all other government agencies
4. If all other agencies refuse system, system goes to public
sale.
According to my father, these systems will be going for a ridiculous
price (like $200-$300, I'm getting mine fer free :) but the buyer needs
to arrange shipping.
Mind you, the data centers are all over the US, not just in Seattle so
it is possible that one will be closer geographically to you.
I'll post another message to the list when the systems are closer to
public sale.
Tony Dellett
< >>From: Bill Kent <billakent(a)hotmail.com>
< >>My name is Bill Kent and I am working on a story for a major online
< >>publication. The focus is on users who use what others might conside
< >>"obsolete" technology. I would like to speak to a few users who use
< >>oder PCs (386 and below) for productivity apps. I'm talking about i
What about non-PC technology? There are whole families of machines that
are not based on Intel cpus and Microsoft software.
Like the Kaypro 4/84 (ca 1984) that I use to run my billings on.
The NS* Horzion Z80 machine I built in 1978 to support z80 family
development and continuation support. That system is my primary for
documenting work done as well.
I have a PDP-11/73 for development and continuation support use. Also
very handy for getting from Digital Equipment Corp designed and
propritary media to other more common use media.
DEC VAX hardware is also widely sought as they despite age and relative
speed are still workhorses for multiuser/multitasking applications. Most
of the more popular VAX systems that are over 10 years old are PC sized
but can support a lot of users.
I do use an old 386sx/25 as a headless server using MSdos6.22 intersvr
and interlnk software and a parallel port data cable(LapLink).
< >>else, that's super, I'd like to hear about it. I'm not interested in
< >>hobbyists who just enjoying hacking the machines. If it requires a
< >>soldering iron, it's too complex for this article.
All people that modify "hack" machines are not all hobbiests. As a
professional I need for various reasons to read disks created years
ago sometimes really old like the 8" media from the late 70s early 80s.
I have old machines to do this but a handy one is an XT clone using a
modified floppy controller with and old 8" drive. You cannot buy that
capability now but, companies have archives that are sometimes very old
that may need to be accessed.
Even your common P-II box is hard pressed to read older 5.25" format
floppies! At a minimum you would have to find an apporiate drive and
then by trial and error figure the jumpers out as new machines a scantily
documented at best.
< >>I'd like to hear stories about how this technology can be applied to
< >>job and does it well. The general slant of the article is to be
In computers old technology and new are often only different in speed or
size. There are many PDP-8s (1970s tech), PDP-11s (late 70s into the
80s tech) and Data General Novas still in service as control systems
where they do the same thing everyday as the have for the last 20+ years.
This doesn't include the tens of thousands of Z80, 6502, 6800
microprocessors in control boxes and other service since the parts were
introduced in the late 70s!
I'll introduce you to an idea new to some. I prefer to use older
systems that are well documented and I can fully utilize. It's saves
me time to not debug some new box or software. Simply said:
Mature stable systems we know how to use.
Allison
In a message dated 98-07-24 07:59:41 EDT, you write:
I guess the 3274 could be called a computer here. it will process information
and if it can do something, it will take care of simple local tasks itself
rather than bothering the mainframe with things the 3274 could do itself.
<<
The 3274 is called a "terminal controller". It is not per se a
computer, although I think it may have had microprocessors and things in
it. The floppy drives were for saving and loading configuration data
(along the lines of Port 1 a 3278, port 2 is a 3299 with 8 3278s hung
off it, port 3 is a printer etc...) It multiplexes terminals and things
to an IBM mainframe channel. While the 3278 and its relatives use the
IBM SNA protocol over 93 ohm co-ax, the 3274 can AFAIK connect over an
ordinary serial line. In which case all you need to do is write drivers
for whatever machine you choose as the host...
>>
> Those $#%&$*^% 800 k disks. There are ways, but I have yet to successfully
>download and transfer anything to my Mac+ . The earlier Mac FAQ straight out
>said it couldn't be done. Likely the easiest way is to find some one to do
>it
>on his Superdrive to a formatted 800 disk.
Or you could just buy a Mac IIsi or similiar for around $50 and do it
yourself.
>The easiest way to do it would be to find someone with a Mac that's in your
>area. BTW I'm not sure you can create the floppies on a PPC Mac, it might
>take a 68k Mac. I had problems with this about a year ago, but I can't
>remember if I was creating Mac, Apple IIgs, or Lisa floppies. The PPC
>Mac's do not seem to handle the floppy drive as well as the 68k based ones,
>I've noticed this with standard Macintosh and PC 1.44Mb floppies.
I haven't had any trouble making 800k disks on my PM 6100. I did have
trouble making a System 0.9 disk on 400k, though (not sure if that's the
PM or the Mac Plus I was trying to run it on, though).
Sincerely,
Tom Owad
--
Sysop of Caesarville Online
Client software at: <http://home.earthlink.net/~tomowad/>
Joe wrote:
> I bought one with a pile of stuff. What is it?
I can do little more than repeat the message I sent on the subject a few
months ago:
John R. Keys Jr. Wrote:
> Well today made up for a slow week, got the following items:
[...]
> IBM 3274-31C with 8" diskettes sofeware
I'm sure you'll have fun with all your finds, but this is the one that
caught my eye.
Last week (?) someone was asking questions along the lines of what the
heck does one do with an IBM 3278?
The answer is, plug it into this. Neither is much use without the
other! I suggest the two of you get together over this...
The 3274 is called a "terminal controller". It is not per se a
computer, although I think it may have had microprocessors and things in
it. The floppy drives were for saving and loading configuration data
(along the lines of Port 1 a 3278, port 2 is a 3299 with 8 3278s hung
off it, port 3 is a printer etc...) It multiplexes terminals and things
to an IBM mainframe channel. While the 3278 and its relatives use the
IBM SNA protocol over 93 ohm co-ax, the 3274 can AFAIK connect over an
ordinary serial line. In which case all you need to do is write drivers
for whatever machine you choose as the host...
Happy hacking!
Philip.
More on my Mac Portable...
Well, I've found out that the Mac Portable doesn't like the System 6
installer disks that I have, so I downloaded the System 6.0.8 files from
Apple. They are in the ".sea.bin" format. What's the best way to get these
images to 800k Mac disks from the PC?
Also, I need a new 40mb drive, the Conner CP-3045 (aka, the HD40SC).
Anyone have one and is willing to part with it?
Thanks.
Rich Cini/WUGNET <nospam_rcini(a)msn.com>
- ClubWin/CW6
- MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking
- Preserver of "classic" computers
<<<< ========== reply separator ========== >>>>>
Well, dang it... I'd hoped to have the RA82 subsystem working before I
offered this beastie up, but... I have other projects. Lots of them.
Situation: MicroVAX II in a DEC four-foot rack cabinet, two BA23 boxes
interconnected with the usual bus expansion cards/cables. Has 8 megs RAM,
RQDX3, an RX50 floppy and a TK50 tape drive. Also has a KDA50 SDI
controller hitched to an RA82, and an RD53 70 meg HD hitched to the RQDX3.
And it has a DHV11 8-line serial MUX.
The RA82 passes all its internal tests. The SDI controller passes all its
internal tests. HOWEVER -- the RA82 drive cannot be seen by the SDI
controller. Not in diags, not through the OS. Zilch. I've replaced cables,
tried all three possible floating CSR addresses, changed both SDI boards,
and futzed with the drive until I'm blue in the face. Nada.
It is my belief that the RA82's interface circuitry is misbehaving,
internal tests notwithstanding. I lack another SDI drive to verify things
one way or another.
So, here's the way its coming down. This beastie is up for grabs as of
now. If nothing else, the rack cabinet and cards would probably be useful
to someone. I will continue to work with the RA82, and it will go with the
system, but I'm not going to put a whole ton of effort into it unless
someone on the list comes up with a bright idea.
I'm located in Kent, WA, southeast of Seattle. Please E-mail me if you're
interested and we'll arrange for pickup. NOTE: Unless the recipient is
willing to pay for crating and shipping -- and it will take a pallet and
lift-gate truck to transport safely -- this is going to be local pickup only.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272)
(Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin(a)jps.net)
"Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own
human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."
I found a strange looking computer today. It's a Grid 1535 EXP computer and
it has a extra pod that clamped on the computer. The pod contains a HP-IB
port. There an empty slot to the left of the HP-IB port, what's it for?
There's also an empty hole roughly 1 x 2 inches next to the power connector
on the laptop. Is that where the battery is supposed to go? I also got a
extra battery pack that also clamps to the outside fo the computer. Does
any know the specs on this computer? It has a co-axial power connector.
What voltage and polarity power does it require? What's the story with the
HP-IB port and how do you access it?
Joe
< I would like to test the Vertex 185 under Spinrite (MS-DOS) and expand t
< bad track table, if Spinrite discovers more problems.
You could but,...
< Will the bad track information carry over under CP/M, and will its forma
< utility see the MS-DOS info? Otherwise, should we just make a list and e
< it?
Depending on the controller used likely no for the Bad block info and NO
for the format.
< Is there a low-level format utility in CP/M? Is it necessary, as under
< MS-DOS?
Maybe, it's generally machine/controller specific. Necessary yes.
General purpose no. REason for that is like floppy controllers
hard disk controler of the era varied from system to system.
< What is the QX-10 controller card going to think of a different hard dri
< Will it try to run the new drive as a 10 MB?
it depends what the controller passes back to the bios and if the bios can
even be reconfigured. FYI: CP/M2 disks over 8mb must be partitioned to
multiple 8mb (or less) logical drives. The file system can only address
65536 128byte logical sectors and up to 16 logical drives.
Allison
I think it's dead.
I plugged it in, turned it on, and the Power light comes on,
about 1/2 second later. regardless of what it's plugged into or
not, the Carrier light comes high.
I have an old style phone, I dialed out rack (I think the modems will
go down to 300 baud...) waited for the 1st ring and shoved it in the coupler.
No dice.
What is one supposed to do with these?
-------
I just picked up an old BellSouth 212A modem, and don't know how to make
it go. It has a handful of pushbuttons on the front (AL ST RL DL HS TLK),
and doesn't respond to the Hayes command set. Am I supposed to dial the
phone myself, and then tell the modem to wake up when I hear the carrier,
like with the old acoustic modems? Any ideas on what those abbreviations
are? I'm guessing HS = "high speed", probably meaning 1200 baud. :-)
And TLK must be "talk". The others have me stumped. Maybe AL is "analog
loopback"?)
Hints would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Bill.
"Daniel A. Seagraves" <DSEAGRAV(a)toad.xkl.com> wrote:
> What is one supposed to do with these?
Way back when, the drill went like this:
(a) dial remote modem's number on phone (as though placing a voice
call)
(b) listen for remote modem to answer and whistle answer
carrier at you
(c) put phone's handpiece in acoustic coupler
(d) acoustic coupler should notice answer carrier and begin
whistling its originate carrier
(e) start typing
I'm thinking that (d) might take longer these days; I don't know
how long it takes these newfangled modems to get around to sending
a tone that is recognizable as a Bell 103 answer carrier. It used
to be immediate because that's what the modems on the other end
tended to try first.
-Frank McConnell
You will LART me for sure because of this question. Is it possible to
use the neutral side of a socket for ground? What, in fact, is the
difference? (dopeslaps start flying in)
>The best way is probably to use a proper isolating transformer. In
other
>words have neither side of the 110V going to the PC connected to earth.
>
>A cheater adapter is also fine, provided you connect the 'pigtail' to a
good
>local earth point. Note that the fixing screw of the outlet (and hence
>the mounting box/conduit) may not be earthed. Should be, but I'd not
put
>my life on it.
>
>> So, why have I never felt anything touching a PC case? I've done it
>> many times, I've touched insides many times, and I've never felt so
>> much as a tingle. Would I be able to use a VOM to find this voltage?
>
>Depends on a lot of things - how well earthed _you_ are (if there's no
>way a current can flow through you, then you'll not feel anything). The
>values of the capacitors used - low enough, and the current will also
be
>too low to feel. In practice, this should be the case, but having seen
some
>cheap PC power supplies I'd not trust them. Oh, and how sensitive you
are
>to the current.
>
>In theory, if you connect one side of a high-impedance AC voltmeter to
a
>local earth point (or, indeed, the neutral side of the socket), and the
>other side to the PC chassis without an earth connection, you should be
>able to measure 55V.
>
>
>-tony
>
>
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
I have what seems to be a similar problem on my Practical Periph.
2400 direct-connect modem. It can dial, but refuses to pick up the
carrier. Maybe a bad transistor somewhere...
it this the only switch it has?
>[Voice/data switch?]
>Nope.
>But it has a full/half duplex switch...
>-------
>
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Check out what I just found in the July 27 edition of Newsweek,
Cyberscope, page 11:
Russian Additions
The Museum of Soviet Calculators on the Web (MOSCOW for short, at
www.comcen.com.au/~adavie) will thrill collectors and amuse the rest of
us. "The weird stuff about Soviet machines is what I love," says its
curator, Andrew Davie, 33, a programmer from Australia who owns 15 of the
60 devices pictured at his site. Example: unlike American caluclators
that form all numbers from 0 to 9 using just seven little parts, some
Russian ones use nine.
Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.
September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2
See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
[Last web page update: 07/21/98]
>I'm not sure if this would qualify as classic or not, but I have a
little VLB 486 machine that needs a 32-bit Ethernet BNC NIC.
Hmm, IIRC VLB hasn't been around for 10 years, but I am curious to know
if anyone made a VLB network card, I don't recall ever seeing one. I
have some 486's running miscellaneous NT chores that could use a boost
on network I/O.
Along those lines, and closer to that 10 year limit, has anyone ever
tried to overclock the Cyrix 486DLC or Dr2 replacement CPUs for 386DX's?
Or for that matter, the Cyrix 586 CPUs that fit in 486 sockets? As in
running a 586-120 at a base 40Mhz, upping it to 160Mhz?
Jack Peacock
LARTed with a tesla coil, right? So how do you propose using a pc in
a building without three-prong sockets?
>I do, and if I catch anyone removing safety earth connections in my
>workshop, they will be LARTed. I am serious. I've worked enough with
the
>mains to know how dangerous it can be.
>
I doubt 240 vs. 110 is much difference as far as heart muscle is
concerned
>(a) If I want to commit suicide I will do :-). But I don't want to set
>booby traps in my workshop. Perhaps I'm more careful becausewe've got
240V
>mains here.
>
So, why have I never felt anything touching a PC case? I've done it
many times, I've touched insides many times, and I've never felt so
much as a tingle. Would I be able to use a VOM to find this voltage?
>
>Right, an explanation. The 'Earth' wire goes to the metal PC case, and
>also to the thrid pin of the plug. 'Neutral' is connected to earth at
the
>main distribution board (US), last distribution transformer (UK), and
is
>effectively earth. And live is 110V (or 240V) above that.
>
>Now, the 2 capacitors on the left form a capacitive potential divider.
So
>if the earth wire is not bonded to ground, then the midpoint of that is
>going to be at half mains voltage - 55V (or 120V) wrt neutral, which is
>efectively local earth. That means the case of the PC - the external
metal
>case - is at that voltage wrt local earth. Now the capacitor values
>_should_ limit the available current, but I'd not bet on it. Also, the
>capacitors should be a special safety type which are unable to fail
>shorted (I forget the type - it's either class X or class Y), but I've
>seen plenty of cheap-n-nasty PSUs with just 600V capacitors in this
>position. If I spot them like that, they get replaced, BTW.
>
>And that's what I'm going on about. Not that the keyboard was live, but
>that the metal case of the PC had a significant voltage wrt local
earth.
>Normally you'd not notice it - the front panel is probably plastic, so
>are the floppy drives, etc. But reach round the back to plug in the
>keyboard cable, touch the back of the case, and zap!
>
>
>> like mine, it's very difficult to maintain wiring and even talk about
>
>> sometime...I'm very lax with safety precautions. There is no way the
>
>I am not fanatical about safety - I do plenty of things that can be
>considered dangerous. I use machine tools, I change CRTs, I work on
>30kV supplies, I work on mains, I repair SMPSUs, I even work on live
>equipment if necessary. And yes I defeat safety interlocks if there's a
>good reason for so doing, and I know what the consequences are. But
there's
>no way you'll catch me removing an earth connection without a _very_
good
>reason.
>
>
>> boy could have electrocuted himself with any modern keyboard I know
>> of, since it's mostly impossible to get to the components inside them
>> w/o taking the thing apart. An XT keyboard, OTOH, is metal which
>
>The backplate of an XT keyboard is connected to the body of the DIN
plug.
>If that's live for any reason, then there's something seriously wrong -
>see above.
>
>> could kill someone if the keyboard is damaged or plugged into the
>
>There is no voltage on a keyboard connector that can kill - at least
not
>if the rest of the PC is correctly wired. I'd touch any component in a
>working XT keyboard and I'd live to tell the tale.
>
>> wrong place. More likely is that he touched a bad power cable with
>> hand. If the PC got moved and the keyboard got unplugged, it could
>> undo any cables spliced together w/scotch tape (another of my bad
>
>Argh!!! I prefer to use proper cable joined with proper connectors -
with
>insulation and strain reliefs.
>
>-tony
>
>
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
In message "VC404 The Standard", lwalker(a)mail.interlog.com writes:
> One of my recent curbside finds is a machine put out by a Canadian company
>based in Waterloo Ont called Volker-Craig model vg-400. On the front it has a
>title VC404 The Standard.
I also have a 404, discarded from a university lab many years ago.
These terminals seem to have been popular in university student
terminal rooms because they were relatively cheap. I seem to recall
that the company founders were ex-University of Waterloo people.
I've seen 404s not just in Canada but also in Britain, where they were
the standard terminals on a university Vax system I once used. So I'm
not too surprised Tony has a tech manual. (Actually, I wouldn't be
surprised if Tony had a tech manual for Noah's Ark :)
>It has a k-b attached with ribbon cable
Unfortunately the keyboards were not that robust and after a few
generations of students pounding away on them, the keyboard or the
ribbon cable often became unreliable.
>In the back it
>has a 25 pin RS232 connector, a BNC labelled "composite video" ,2 switches :
>one 3-pos.to configure parity the other "Transparent on off"
That video connector on the back was useful for hooking into a big
classroom overhead monitor so a whole class could learn from observing a
terminal session.
These terminals are very helpful for debugging RS-232 communications.
The "transparent" switch on the back lets you choose to display all the
ASCII control codes (eg, instead of performing a "line feed" it displays
a little LF symbol).
Larry, I don't have any tech docs but I do have a thin user manual.
About all it tells you is what the special control codes are to clear
the screen, move the cursor, etc. Still, it's the information you need
to run Wordstar with it! E-mail me with your snail-mail address
and I'll run off a copy for you.
Regards,
Arlen
--
Arlen Michaels
Nortel
Ottawa, Canada (613) 763-2568 amichael(a)nortel.ca
I have never gotten real spam to my address, non-real spam being
unwanted jokes and chain letters from people who have my address.
It's amazing, every few weeks the "Bill Gates goes to heaven" joke
is rediscovered...
>I don't know, fact is that my SPAM statistc shows an increase
>of around 5% since I'm on this list - this might be just the
>usual SPAM inflation, but taking your guesses, it might also
>be list related. (My SPAM statistics are don by my self made
>SPAM killer bot - a vcollection of key word filters - the most
>usefull filter just triggering '$$$' :)
>
>Gruss
>H.
>
>--
>Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
>HRK
>
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Weird. Maybe there is damage to some ROM somewhere? If you have
another floppy drive, try plugging that in. I've never had any
problems with my Superdrive
>On Tue, 21 Jul 1998 19:45:51 -0700 (PDT), Tom Owad
<tomowad(a)earthlink.net>
>wrote:
>
>> 3. It will not accept an 800k disk formatted by an SE/30 which
>>contains System 6.0.1.
>> 4. It *will* accept an 800k installer disk, but it complains
that
>the
>>disk contains a "minimal" script file, and that I need a "full"
install
>>script. Arrrgh...
>
>>>So you actually get a happy Mac when you insert that disk? Have you
>>>tried a genuine System Tools disk?
>
> Yes, this is an *original* 6.0.1 installer disk from the
aforementioned
>SE/30. It boots, but complains about the script type. This is the
*only*
>disk that I've gotten to work so far.
>
>
>Rich Cini/WUGNET <nospam_rcini(a)msn.com>
> - ClubWin/CW6
> - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking
> - Preserver of "classic" computers
><<<< ========== reply separator ========== >>>>>
>
>
>
>
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
I am sorry, but I really have to ask this before I do anything else.
THe keyboard ribbon cable on the thing had some chipped contacts at
the location of a bend near the socket. This prevented use of many
keys. So, I trimmed the cable. This lets the kb work fine, but is
barely long enough to get to the edge connector, and once there it
won't stay properly. And now the damn thing is becoming chipped
again. What should I do? I can't replace the ribbon because the whole
keyboard circuit board is one piece of plastic film (two layers).
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
At 02:41 PM 7/22/98 -0700, you wrote:
>>I'm also planning obfuscation of e-mail addresses, to foil spammers. My
[...]
>That hardly seems worth it. Do that robots really browse web pages for
>email addresses (particularly pages like this)? And what if my email
Yep, they do. I've got a page stored on my pager that came from a spammer
trolling for e-mail addresses on web pages. (My pager can be reached at
<4152010273(a)alphapage.airtouch.com> and there is are links to said address
on my site.) I've gotten several such pages (but only keep the one to show
people.)
--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/
I was corresponding with this fellow a while back. He indicated that some
or all of the gear listed -might- get shipped to a staging point in the US
of A.
I've had no further word on that, and I'm in no position to buy anything
right at the moment. However, that may not hold true for other
CLASSICCMP'ers. With that in mind, check out the site and, if interested,
contact Mr. Tey directly.
Attachment follows.
-=-=- <snip> -=-=-
>X-Sender: wmtey(a)post1.com
>X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32)
>Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 17:41:11 +0800
>To: "Anuar Omar" <omara(a)tm.net.my>, joe(a)ar.co.th, sakchai(a)ar.co.th,
> Bruce Lane <kyrrin(a)jps.net>, chaiyut(a)irc.co.th,
<big snip of CC's>
>From: william tey <wmtey(a)post1.com>
>Subject: bargain hunting!
>
>pls visit our web page at:
>
>http://www.berkeley.com.sg/surplus.htm
>
>for best bargain in town!
>
>
>william tey
>berkeley electronics pte ltd
>135 joo seng road #05-03
>pm industrial building
>singapore 368363
>joo chiat p.o. box 0859
>singapore 914202
>tel: (65)382-5998, fax: (65)382-5982
>email: wmtey(a)post1.com
>
>
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272)
(Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin(a)jps.net)
"Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own
human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."
> Unfortunatly anyone that posts to this list is suceptable to SPAM since
> these message are archived on the web.
> Then again, maybe I'm just starting to get overly paranoid, but I doubt it.
I don't know, fact is that my SPAM statistc shows an increase
of around 5% since I'm on this list - this might be just the
usual SPAM inflation, but taking your guesses, it might also
be list related. (My SPAM statistics are don by my self made
SPAM killer bot - a vcollection of key word filters - the most
usefull filter just triggering '$$$' :)
Gruss
H.
--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK
At 10:19 PM 7/22/98 -0400, you wrote:
>On Tue, 21 Jul 1998 20:56:30, Joe <rigdonj(a)intellistar.net> wrote:
>
>
>> Does anyone have a copy of the Tim Patterson (Seattle Computer
>Products)
>>article series from Byte? I belive that it talked about DOS (...or QDOS or
>>86/DOS...). Thanks.
>>
>>>I may have the original article. What issue was it in?
>
Does anyone know if there was an index published for BYTE? Don't remember
even annual ones in the Dec. issues. I always missed them.
I do have a short one which goes to the end of 1976. Some of my issues are
in boxes where I cannot get to very easily.
-Dave
On Tue, 21 Jul 1998 20:56:30, Joe <rigdonj(a)intellistar.net> wrote:
> Does anyone have a copy of the Tim Patterson (Seattle Computer
Products)
>article series from Byte? I belive that it talked about DOS (...or QDOS or
>86/DOS...). Thanks.
>
>>I may have the original article. What issue was it in?
I don't know. Tim Shoppa mentioned the article series last week, and
since I'm on a DOS 1.1 reverse engineering kick lately, I thought that the
article would be appropriate.
I would guess if Tim Patterson is talking about the predecessor of DOS,
it would be in the late-79 to mid-80 range (hedging by bets a little). I
guess that it could be as late as mid-1981 (based on the introduction of the
5150).
Rich Cini/WUGNET <nospam_rcini(a)msn.com>
- ClubWin/CW6
- MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking
- Preserver of "classic" computers
<<<< ========== reply separator ========== >>>>>
>Okay, I am now irked enough at that dead "Rescue List", that I've put up my
>own version of it, copied from the old one. I hereby bring the ancient curse
>upon myself.
Great!
>I'm also planning obfuscation of e-mail addresses, to foil spammers. My
>favorite scheme is to insert extra letters, and leave an English description
>of how to correct it (such as abcxde(a)foox.baxr "remove x's"). Let me know
>if you object to this treatment of your address.
That hardly seems worth it. Do that robots really browse web pages for
email addresses (particularly pages like this)? And what if my email
address has an 'x' in it?
Anyway, please add me to the list.
Pennsylvania
Tom Owad
York, PA
tomowad(a)earthlink.net
Location: Southcentral PA., Willing to pick up. How far I'll go depends
on how interesting the computer is.
Area of Interest: Anything other than IBM PC's and compatibles,
especially Apples and DECs
Thanks,
Tom
--
Sysop of Caesarville Online
Client software at: <http://home.earthlink.net/~tomowad/>
On Tue, 21 Jul 1998 19:45:51 -0700 (PDT), Tom Owad <tomowad(a)earthlink.net>
wrote:
> 3. It will not accept an 800k disk formatted by an SE/30 which
>contains System 6.0.1.
> 4. It *will* accept an 800k installer disk, but it complains that
the
>disk contains a "minimal" script file, and that I need a "full" install
>script. Arrrgh...
>>So you actually get a happy Mac when you insert that disk? Have you
>>tried a genuine System Tools disk?
Yes, this is an *original* 6.0.1 installer disk from the aforementioned
SE/30. It boots, but complains about the script type. This is the *only*
disk that I've gotten to work so far.
Rich Cini/WUGNET <nospam_rcini(a)msn.com>
- ClubWin/CW6
- MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking
- Preserver of "classic" computers
<<<< ========== reply separator ========== >>>>>
Do you have those weird two-prong things? My building is full of them
They're screws with a rounded head, and nothing on it but two little
pits.
>> > Ever done an IBM 5151 monitor? It's painful, and the details are
not in
>> > any IBM manual (for all there's a schematic given).
>>
>> The thing I don't like about a lot of IBM stuff is the torx screws
with a
>> pin in the middle to stop as ordinary torx bit fitting. (I have been
known
>
>Yes, PC power supplies tend to be full of them. The proper tool - a
>tamperproof Torx bit - is pretty easy to obtain, actually. As are
>tamperproof hex (like allen keys with a hole in the middle), tri-wing,
>Torq, etc. I have the lot...
>
>-tony
>
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
At 09:04 AM 7/21/98 PDT, you wrote:
>knowing that the thing must be turned. What's a CLI?
CLI: Command Line Interface
(As in, DOS, CP/M, RSTS/E, (sometimes) Unix, TRSDOS, MPE, etc.)
--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/
This one actually cost me some bucks, so I'll want to get at least
something for it. However, I promise not to be outrageous. ;-)
I have an operating/service manual, brand new, for the Hewlett-Packard
3456A DVM (yes, the meter's over ten years old -- produced in 1982, to be
exact). I'd like to see it go to someone who has one of the meters but no
manual.
HP gets $44.00 plus tax for the thing. I'm asking $25.00, plus postage.
Anyone?
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272)
(Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin(a)jps.net)
"Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own
human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."
Sorry about the blanks, folks, Lynx doesn't let me delete them.
This one I must agree with. Thank god I had some metric phillips
drivers to turn those Torx screws!!!
>You forgot one category: Most difficult to open. The last LTE I tried
to
>open required the skill of a surgeon to dissassemble.
>
>Jeff
>
>
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
For one thing, I don't think there's anything wrong with cheaters,
I have three or four connected to power strips and a microwave. If
a problem should happen, touching the case could cause instant death,
but a) so what b) what are the odds c)in an old apartment building
like mine, it's very difficult to maintain wiring and even talk about
it to the landlord. They won't even replace the valves on the
radiators! I might decide to actually attach those things to ground
sometime...I'm very lax with safety precautions. There is no way the
boy could have electrocuted himself with any modern keyboard I know
of, since it's mostly impossible to get to the components inside them
w/o taking the thing apart. An XT keyboard, OTOH, is metal which
could kill someone if the keyboard is damaged or plugged into the
wrong place. More likely is that he touched a bad power cable with
hand. If the PC got moved and the keyboard got unplugged, it could
undo any cables spliced together w/scotch tape (another of my bad
habits). In general, it's not too hard to believe. There's nothing
that could be done to prevent this from happening every so often.
>
>I would offer the following possible explanations :
>
>The PC was earthed (as it should be), and the boy was carrying a static
>charge. Zap!, but not fatal, or even a cause of serious injury.
Touching
>any piece of earthed metal would have had the same effect
>
>The PC case was connected to mains earth, which for some reason due to
>dangerous wiring wasn't the same as the local earth. If that's the
case,
>time to check out all the wiring before more accidents happen.
>
>The PC case wasn't earthed, and was floating at about half mains
voltage
>due to the filtering components. This is acutally a nasty problem, and
is
>caused by idiots who use those 2 pin cheater adapters. The mains filter
>capacitors shouldn't be able to pass enough current to be fatal, but
I'd
>not bet on it.
>
>The boy tried to plug the keyboard into something other than the PC's
>keyboard port :-).
>
>> are trying to conn a computer out of their parents.
>> If I hear any more I will pass it along.
>>
>> Charlie Fox
>>
>>
>
>-tony
>
>
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Okay, I am now irked enough at that dead "Rescue List", that I've put up my
own version of it, copied from the old one. I hereby bring the ancient curse
upon myself.
The URL is http://www.cs.unc.edu/~yakowenk/classiccmp/ccrs_list.html . I
have added a "Current as of" date for each person, to help root out obsolete
info. Right now, those are all set to the list creation date (11-Jun-97).
If you find any of your info is wrong, let me know.
I'm also planning obfuscation of e-mail addresses, to foil spammers. My
favorite scheme is to insert extra letters, and leave an English description
of how to correct it (such as abcxde(a)foox.baxr "remove x's"). Let me know
if you object to this treatment of your address.
Bill.
I'm not sure if this would qualify as classic or not, but I have a little VLB
486 machine that needs a 32-bit Ethernet BNC NIC. If you have one you'd like to
unload, please email. I've got a bunch of old books and manuals (mostly IBM
stuff) for trade, or I have some money laying around if you prefer it. <g>
thanks
David
--
David Wollmann
DST / DST Data Conversion
ICQ: 10742063
http://www.ibmhelp.com/
On Wed, 22 Jul 1998 Philip.Belben(a)powertech.co.uk wrote:
> If our American friends will forgive my patriotic prejudice, the main
> reason I have less than no wish to go and work/live in the US is the
> legal system and culture that generates occurrences like these.
I guess you have to grow up with the right mindset. True, the system is
bizarre, but sometimes it can work in your favor too, if you can get a
better shyster^h^h^h^h^h lawyer.
And in the end, if you can't get justice any other way, there are always
alternative options, such as a firebomb through the window at midnight,
or for those especially egregious offenses, a business deal with your
local mafia representative to "eliminate" the problem once and for all
time (a time honored tradition here in Las Vegas).
Jack Peacock
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz............
______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________
Subject: RE: off topic: ridiculous law suits was Re: Compaq
Author: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu at internet
Date: 7/22/98 5:15 PM
Jack Peacock wrote:
>And in the end, if you can't get justice any other way, there are always
>alternative options, such as a firebomb through the window at midnight,
>or for those especially egregious offenses, a business deal with your
>local mafia representative to "eliminate" the problem once and for all
>time (a time honored tradition here in Las Vegas).
> Jack Peacock
As my friend, Vinnie, once told me many years ago, "Legbreakers are cheaper
than lawyers, and often more effective". The other piece of advice he gave
me was, "Never antagonize guys whose middle name is 'The'.
R.
--
Warbaby
The WebSite. The Domain. The Empire.
http://www.warbaby.com
The MonkeyPool
WebSite Content Development
http://www.monkeypool.com
Dreadlocks on white boys give me the willies.
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From: Rax <rax(a)warbaby.com>
To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers"
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Subject: RE: off topic: ridiculous law suits was Re: Compaq
In-Reply-To: <41F0302DCC1BD011AF6100AA00B845A816C4E2(a)mail.simconv.com>
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>>> Pilot and passenger die in 1947 Piper Cub afer crashing on take off.
>>> Two fatal, payment over $25,000,000. Reason, no shoulder harnesses.
[rest of story snipped - you've all seen it several times!]
> I have to throw in my 2 cents worth. You read about this stuff but you
> wonder if it really happens. IT DOES! A member of my family was one of
> the defendents in a trial very similar to this. The thing about that trial
> that amazed me was the facts that were keep FROM the jury. The behind the
> scenes rangling to suppress evidence was incredible. It's no wonder
> lawyers get such huge settlements considering how the jurys are
> manipulated and spoon feed only what the lawyers want them to hear.
What price the oath to tell "the whole truth"?
(In danger of getting seriously off topic here!)
If our American friends will forgive my patriotic prejudice, the main
reason I have less than no wish to go and work/live in the US is the
legal system and culture that generates occurrences like these.
It is marginally (but only marginally) better over here - European
harmonisation is making it worse, as did the Margaret Thatcher
premiership...
Philip.
On Tue, 21 Jul 1998, Lawrence Walker wrote:
> > On Sun, 19 Jul 1998, Wayne Cox wrote:
> > > Hi, I was given this email address as being the "Classic Computer
> > > Collectors List." Not sure if it is a "subscribe to" mailing list or an
> > > individual.
> >
> > This is THE place 8-) Hope you got subscribed ok - if not - try again.
> > ...
> > Name: Classic Computer Rescue List
> > URL: http://www.geocities.com/BourbonStreet/1055/classic.html
> > (Collectors by areas)
> > Name: The Classic Computer Encyclopedia Page
> > URL: http://www.xnet.com/~danjo/classic/
> > (Darn near dead - no input for about 6 months...)
> > Name: Classic Computer ListOp
> > URL: http://haliotis.bothell.washington.edu/classiccmp/
> > (Hmmmm... Bill - ya want to move this to a working system?)
> >
>
> And don't forget Bill Yakowenko's classiccmp distributed Web-page archives at
>
> http://www .cs.unc.edu/~yakowenk/classiccmp
Uh, I took that down due to zero participation. A distributed anything
with only one node is a truly pitiful sight.
There is still a web page there, but now it's just my own little corner
of the web - no more grand schemes.
Bill.
Christian Fandt <cfandt(a)servtech.com> wrote:
> DC600 carts are the _physical_ media on which data is stored. I wasn't
> saying DC600 is a format nor was QICxx a format HP uses (never knew what
> protocol HP used 'til you mentioned HCD a bit later in yr msg.)
Yes, the physical carts seem to be the same -- it's easy enough to
scribble over the HCD formatting with a QIC format, at which point the
tape is no longer usable in an HCD drive.
So far as I know the HCD formatting must be written at the factory, and
the tapes I've seen have had either HP or 3M labels on them.
HP also seems to put down its own higher-level format on the tapes
that it sells. Here's a story:
Once upon a time the purchasing agent found she could save a few bucks
ordering the 3M flavor of the tapes, and so we got one for testing.
Well...on the 3000, the software for manipulating these things treats
them as serial discs (which is exactly as wacky as it sounds, the tape
drive is a CS/80 device and so the tapes are addressed by block), and
so you're supposed to use the VINIT tool to format the "disc" and
"serialize" it (i.e. write a volume label that says "this is a serial
disc" for auto-volume recognition to read later). So what I noticed
in my tests was that the 3M tape, when new, took 15 minutes for the
FORMAT step, vs. the HP tapes which took seconds. I suspect that the
time was taken by the tape drive formatting the tape and writing out
the canonical CS/80 stuff like bad-block sparing tables and so forth,
and that HP does this at their factory.
-Frank McConnell
Fine, fine, if you insist...in ' The Soul of a New Machine', it is
mentioned that IBM in the late '70s was in court almost continuously.
What was the bulk of this about?
>
>How about classic computers?
>
>Sam Alternate e-mail:
dastar(a)siconic.com
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Ever onward.
>
> September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2
> See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
> [Last web page update: 07/21/98]
>
>
>
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
> Thread getting old now...how about talking about abortion, politics, or
> environmental issues? Or maybe ice fishing. Cripes...
Cripes ?????
H.
--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK
> While we're on this subject, are stupid lawsuits as common in UK
> and other countries as the US?
No, at least in Germany most of these laughable cases are
rejectet from court. But we like to laugh about the US system.
Gruss
H.
--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK
> Hans Franke wrote:
>> b) I had, until I switched to ISDN, still a 1927 Telephone
>> in every day use. Worked fine, even with the latest (analogue)
>> exchange :) - Noy I connect it via an a/b adaptor.
> Well done. But, pardon my ignorance, what is an a/b adaptor?
Sorry German tech talk - a/b are the 'names' of the two wires
for two wire (analogue) telephone connections - and an a/b-adaptor
is just a ISDN <-> analogue converter - so you van connect old
phones (dtmf and pulse) to ISDN lines.
> I've often wondered about adding a BCD-DTMF chip and a pulse counter to
> make dial phones do tones for all the robots you ring up and have to
> type numbers to communicate with. But where do I put # and *?
> Suggestions?
SHIFT-ALT-CTRL-1 ?
Grin(s)
H.
--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK
Hans Franke wrote:
> b) I had, until I switched to ISDN, still a 1927 Telephone
> in every day use. Worked fine, even with the latest (analogue)
> exchange :) - Noy I connect it via an a/b adaptor.
Well done. But, pardon my ignorance, what is an a/b adaptor?
I've often wondered about adding a BCD-DTMF chip and a pulse counter to
make dial phones do tones for all the robots you ring up and have to
type numbers to communicate with. But where do I put # and *?
Suggestions?
Philip.
I need a manual or a decent copy of one and any other available info on the
Iomega ALPHA-10 SCSI removable disk drive. Nothing at the Iomega website,
just the newer stuff.
Thanks, Chris
-- --
Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian
Jamestown, NY USA
Member of Antique Wireless Association
URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/
-----Original Message-----
From: Don Maslin <donm(a)cts.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: 22 July 1998 19:00
Subject: Re: Idiots
>On Wed, 22 Jul 1998, Max Eskin wrote:
>
>> While we're on this subject, are stupid lawsuits as common in UK
>> and other countries as the US?
>>
>> ______________________________________________________
>> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>
>It is my understanding that in UK the loser pays all legal costs which
>tends to discourage filing frivolous suits.
No, this is no the case.
I know personaly of a case where the victim lost more in expenses bringing
the case to court than the offender was eventually fined for the offence.
It's all a bit backward in the UK I'm afraid.
Compensation for serious injury is a complete joke.
We have murderers released from prison after serving only half of their
sentance.
So, while I laugh at the "My neighbour pulled a nasty face at my cat" type
lawsuits in the US. I do feel that the system in the UK is grossly unfair in
the opposite way, with the victims of crime rarely receiving justice.
Sie
Hello List-ites....
I have a question for the non-RT11-impaired among us:
I am attempting (sporadically) to get an 11/34a back in it's
original shape, when it ran a Hollywood audio company's accounting
and sales functions. It had two RK05s and several software packages
running under MACRO, Unix, and USCD pSystem Pascal.
Right now only one of the drives is hooked up, set to drive '0'.
It will boot and run the UCSD stuff and it will boot RT-11(V2.0)....
except that, in 7 out of the 7 packs with RT-11.... it is as if KMON
was missing or damaged; it boots up to the dot prompt and then
returns the ?ILL? message no matter which command I give it. I have
RT-11(V5.0) on my 11/73 and it is fully functional, so I have had
some cursory (N.P.I.) experience with the OS.
I am at another one of those self-teaching impasses.. I can't do
much more with the system the way it is... sigh.
Has anyone any ideas? Magic words? Mystery switches? Or should I
just chuck this wretched humiliating heavy loud time-consuming
suppossed-to-be-a-fun-toy..... sorry. Time for my meds again. I'm
fine now... quite calm actually.
help.
Cheers.....
John
PS: Anyone found a junk Kennedy 9300 tape machine whose vacuum
column door is in good shape... I *need* one real bad....
J
>> That's dead, I'll replace it. Should I also change the black bar-
>> shaped 7.5 v cell? It's dead too, and I don't know what it's for.
>
> I'm not sure if the 7.5V bettery is required for the machine to power
> up, on the other hand, it wasn't _designed_ to be dead, so it can do no
> harm to replace it.
It isn't required. Replacing mine did no good (ie powered up but didn't
retain all settings, with old or new battery). New ones, being NiCd,
are supplied fully discharged anyway.
Philip.
>> This one I must agree with. Thank god I had some metric phillips
>> drivers to turn those Torx screws!!!
>> >You forgot one category: Most difficult to open. The last LTE I tried
>> to
>> >open required the skill of a surgeon to dissassemble.
Phillips driver to turn a Torx screw? Shame on you! Flat bladed much
more effective provided you select the correct width ;-)
> Since when does the use of Torx screws make something difficult to
> dismantle? They're a lot better than the crosspoint (Phillips, Pozidriv,
> etc) screws, which almost seem to be designed to cause the driver to
> 'cam out' when you try to shift them.
>
> Dismantling is easy, anyway. It's getting it back together that's
> interesting...
Dismantling the LTE-lite 20 is not easy. For those who wish to have a
go:
1. Find the four obvious screws at the back of the case. Make sure
they are properly done up :-) Don't undo them! If you do you will
cause permanent damage.
2. Remove battery. Screwdriver inside battery compartment will pop
some of the clips that hold the top cover off.
3. Work around the edges, using additional force at the front corners,
until top cover fully popped. Then fold screen right back and lift off
cover.
4. Next undo the screw that holds the display cable in place (for cable
read flexible pcb) and unplug said cable.
5. Then and only then can you undo the four screws at the back, and
detach the screen.
Thereafter, fairly obvious. All the screws are Torx 9, except for a few
very small phillips in the display...
If you start by undoing the obvious screws, you will tear the display
cable, and it costs around 30 pounds to replace. Compaq don't sell to
the general public. but will tell you the names of dealers who do.
(Guess how I found that out!)
Philip.
zzzzzzzzzzzzzz
______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________
Subject: Re: Idiots
Author: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu at internet
Date: 7/22/98 2:09 PM
-----Original Message-----
From: Don Maslin <donm(a)cts.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: 22 July 1998 19:00
Subject: Re: Idiots
>On Wed, 22 Jul 1998, Max Eskin wrote:
>
>> While we're on this subject, are stupid lawsuits as common in UK
>> and other countries as the US?
>>
>> ______________________________________________________
>> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>
>It is my understanding that in UK the loser pays all legal costs which
>tends to discourage filing frivolous suits.
No, this is no the case.
I know personaly of a case where the victim lost more in expenses bringing
the case to court than the offender was eventually fined for the offence.
It's all a bit backward in the UK I'm afraid.
Compensation for serious injury is a complete joke.
We have murderers released from prison after serving only half of their
sentance.
So, while I laugh at the "My neighbour pulled a nasty face at my cat" type
lawsuits in the US. I do feel that the system in the UK is grossly unfair in
the opposite way, with the victims of crime rarely receiving justice.
Sie
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From: "Sie Raybould" <sie(a)systemfile.demon.co.uk>
To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers"
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Idiots
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> Generally I'd agree, but in the case of the DEC VR201 I was challenged
< > It took me some 2 hrs. and I was ready to rip the case off before I fina
< > figured out that "that interesting little button on the rear" concealed
< > screw that held it all together. I think some fine art students on peyot
< > must have designed that case. It is unique I will admit.
< >
< > ciao larry
< > lwalker(a)interlog.com
While the VT100 case was easy to open the legal climate changed and easy
to open meant users (meaning idiots) should open it and hurt themselves
so they could sue. Screws like that oen in the VR200 and also others were
meant as a legal dodge as if you went through all the trouble to open that
you were delberate and if anything bad happnes it's on your head not DECs.
As some oen involved in the design process we always had to banance easy
to open with should it be openable at all. I know I was around DEC from
83->93 and worked with the corperate safety folks. You would not believe
the stories we would share...
Allison
Tony ended his long discourse on telephones with:
> In practice, you're not going to damage the exchange no matter what you do
> to the line at the subscriber end. The incoming lines are protected by an
> array of spark gaps (probably gas filled), fuses and 'heat coils'. The old
> electromechanical exchanges were certainly protected against lightening,
> contact between telephone lines and (600V-ish) power lines, etc. Mains, at
> the far end of the line, is trivial in comparison.
ISTR that at our sites (electricity supply industry) we have to install
special isolators on phone lines if the rise in local earth potential
due to an earth fault exceeds 650V. Such sites are known as "hot
sites". The implication is, anything less than 650V to ground the
exchange can cope with. Besides, I think the limiting factor is safety
of engineers working at exchanges...
Philip.
While we're on this subject, are stupid lawsuits as common in UK
and other countries as the US?
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
> I've often wondered about adding a BCD-DTMF chip and a pulse counter
to
make dial phones do tones for all the robots you ring up and have to
type numbers to communicate with. But where do I put # and *?
Suggestions?
Do what I do, refuse to use robot phone systems, always wait till an
operator comes on line. If a company is too cheap to pay someone to
answer the phone I certainly don't want to do business with them, it's a
clear indication of the level of service I can expect.
Jack Peacock
> While we're on this subject, are stupid lawsuits as common in UK
and other countries as the US?
There was the slander lawsuit in the UK brought by McDonalds against
some food activist pressure group. On the surface it sounded stupid,
took forever, but in the end it proved to be a wise business choice for
McDonalds. IIRC McDonalds won some small victory from it but it was a
brilliant first strike to stop any future pressure groups.
On the other hand even McDonalds loses a few. I think it was the
McDonalds in downtown Shanghai, the Chinese Govt decided they wanted the
property and booted McD out even thought McD had a lease on it. McD
tried to sue in Chinese court, which surely qualifies as a stupid
lawsuit in China.
Jack peacock
Well, I bought a replacement coin battery...it's starting up off the
SMPSU from my Packard Bell. Hmm...the screen on my Mac Portable is a
million times better...how do I get into the CMOS setup in this
thing? Since the settings are reset, I can't get to the hard drive
for any potential setup programs.
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
FWIW: just to give some of you a bit of fun; no futher discussion needed
here as it's kinda off topic.
Found this in comp.sys.ibm.sys3x.misc. Don't know for sure if Mr. Welch
really gave the press rls. Posted on Thu, 16 Jul 1998:
At a recent computer expo (COMDEX), Bill Gates reportedly compared the
computer industry and stated: "If GM had kept up with technology like
the computer industry has, we would all be driving twenty-five dollar
cars that got 1000 miles to the gallon.
In response to Bill's comments, General Motors issued a press release
stating (by Mr. Welch himself):
If GM had developed technology like Microsoft, we would all be driving
cars with the following characteristics:
1. For no reason whatsoever your car would crash twice a day.
2. Every time they repainted the lines on the road you would have
to buy a new car.
3. Occasionally your car would die on the freeway for no reason,
and you would just accept this, restart and drive on.
4. Occasionally, executing a maneuver such as a left turn, would
cause your car to shut down and refuse to restart, in which case you
would have to reinstall the engine.
5. Only one person at a time could use the car, unless you bought
"Car95" or "CarNT". But then you would have to buy more seats.
6. Macintosh would make a car that was powered by the sun,
reliable, five times as fast, and twice as easy to drive, but would
only run on five per cent of the roads.
7. The oil, water temperature and alternator warning lights would
be replaced by a single "general car default" warning light.
8. New seats would force everyone to have the same size butt.
9. The air bag system would say "Are you sure?" before going off.
10. Occasionally for no reason whatsoever, your car would lock you
out and refuse to let you in until you simultaneously lifted the door
handle, turned the key, and grab hold of the radio antenna.
11. GM would require all car buyers to also purchase a deluxe set of
Rand McNally road maps (now a GM subsidiary), even though they neither
need or want them. Attempting to delete this option would immediately
cause the car's performance to diminish by 50% or more. Moreover, GM
would become a target for investigation by the Justice Department.
12. Every time GM introduced a new model car, buyers would have to
learn how to drive all over again because none of the controls would
operate in the same manner as the old car.
13. You'd press the "start" button to shut off the engine.
-- --
Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian
Jamestown, NY USA
Member of Antique Wireless Association
URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/
While I suppose it's technically possible to be electrocuted by anything
plugged into a wall outlet, I really have a hard time buying this story.
There's got to be more to it than that. Can you tell me in what newspaper
it appeared?
"Charles E. Fox" <foxvideo(a)wincom.net> on 07/22/98 09:47:50 AM
Please respond to classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu
To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers"
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
cc: (bcc: Bill Sheehan/Corporate/SWEC)
Subject: Re: Compaq//safety issues
Todays paper has an article about a fourteen year old Southern Ontario
boy
who electrocuted himself while using his computer "when the keyboard became
disconnected and he tried to plug it in"!!
This sounds nearly impossible and very hard on all the young people
who
are trying to conn a computer out of their parents.
If I hear any more I will pass it along.
Charlie Fox
>> $460!!!! That CAN'T right! I going to throw away my Altair and start
>> looking for Sinclairs to sell on E-pay!
> But to us british the ZX80 has the same nostalgic value as an Altair. The
> highest price I have seen a ZX80 go for here in the UK was 180 UKP but
> this example was fully boxed, the correct manuals, mint condition and
> known to work.
460 USD ? 180 UKP ?
Wooha!
And I just gave away a ZX80 for free last week (to a
fellow collector - Stefan, did you check it ? Working ?).
Althrugh it is an early ZX80 (see the glossing 'Keyboard' ?
Later modells had a darkened keymat to give a chance for
guessing the keys) I wouldn't pay anything more than
DM 80-100 (~ USD 60, UKP 30) - no way. ZX80 is sill somewhat
common. There are a lot of newer devices that are realy rare.
Shure, the ZX81 is for most people more nostalgic than
any KIM, AIM or Altair, since it was (together with the
ZX81) the first computer for a real lot of people.
Gruss
H.
--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK
LOL, i love that disclaimer. time to reedit my .sig file...
perhaps everyone should use it nowadays?
In a message dated 98-07-21 23:57:06 EDT, Don Maslin put forth:
<< Disclaimer:
As a resident of the '90's, I take no responsibility for anything I say or
do.
If any of my actions hurt or offend anyone, it was probably not my fault, and
the result of some childhood trauma which I've probably repressed. >>
At 10:20 PM 7/21/98 -0500, you wrote:
>For your amusement:
> http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=21496167
>
>-- Doug
$460!!!! That CAN'T right! I going to throw away my Altair and start
looking for Sinclairs to sell on E-pay!
(Just kidding!!!!!!!!)
Go look at his other ads. He has a 1 cent paper bill that some fool
has bid $5 for!
> 1. The portable won't accept a 1.44mb disk created with a PowerMac
>but that contains System 6.0.1 (I get the disk with the "X" in it). I
>thought that the drive was a 1.44mb disk.
The Mac Portables did ship with 1.44mb drives, but that doesn't
necessarily mean that's what yours has. I came across one once that had
been replaced with an 800k.
> 3. It will not accept an 800k disk formatted by an SE/30 which
>contains System 6.0.1.
> 4. It *will* accept an 800k installer disk, but it complains that the
>disk contains a "minimal" script file, and that I need a "full" install
>script. Arrrgh...
So you actually get a happy Mac when you insert that disk? Have you
tried a genuine System Tools disk?
Tom Owad
--
Sysop of Caesarville Online
Client software at: <http://home.earthlink.net/~tomowad/>
>Person tries to commit suicide using electric drill. Not fatal,
>significant brain damage. Heirs sue and the award is in the millions.
>Reason, does not say the drill should not be used for surgery.
>Pilot and passenger die in 1947 Piper Cub afer crashing on take off.
>Two fatal, payment over $25,000,000. Reason, no shoulder harnesses.
This may be simply anecdotal, but keeping in mind the other two:
Man (accidently) walks into spinning tail rotor of helicopter... his
family sues because it wasn't placarded that it might be dangerous to
walk into rotating blades...
("Think of it as evolution in action.") :-)
Megan Gentry
Former RT-11 Developer
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry zk3.dec.com |
| Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg world.std.com |
| Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of ' ' |
| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ |
| Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler |
| (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg |
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
Ya know, I sold one of these for about $15 one time, not too long ago,
wait, mine was the ZX81. C'mon guys, let's all sell our computers on ebay!
After we become billionaires, we can buy out microsoft and make Slick Billy
lick our boots! :)
At 10:20 PM 7/21/98 -0500, Doug Yowza wrote:
>For your amusement:
> http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=21496167
>
>-- Doug
>
>
-
- john higginbotham ____________________________
- webmaster www.pntprinting.com -
- limbo limbo.netpath.net -
classic
Safety things...
LP25 gas springs that would die and drop the lid on the unwary head under
it.
Service engineer installing an RL02 in top of a mostly empty 50" cab has
it topple forward and suffers injury. Reason, failed to extend and tighten
anti-tip foot in the front of cab, disk installed against recommendations.
Injuries include fracture and lacerations to leg.
In the greater realm there are some that are near urban legend save for
companies really paid for the frivilous though profitable(for someone)
litigation of the 80s.
Person tries to commit suicide using electric drill. Not fatal, significant
brain damage. Heirs sue and the award is in the millions. Reason, does not
say the drill should not be used for surgery.
Two guys get drunk, decide they need to trim the hedges using gas powered
lawn mower. Non fatal, loss of fingers. Suit paid out of court for 7
digits, reason; didn't say you can't use it for other than mowing lawn
anywhere on the machine. Following years all sorts of blade brakes, kill
switches and labels appear.
Pilot and passenger die in 1947 Piper Cub afer crashing on take off.
Two fatal, payment over $25,000,000. Reason, no shoulder harnesses.
Special note: Private pilot didn't have required valid flight review for
that two year period needed to exercise the privilge of pilot in command.
The pilot did not have the required flight time in the previous 90 days
to exercise the privledge of carrying passengers. The purpose of flight
was commercial photography (private pilot cannot hire out). The plane
was modified illegally and improperly to mount a camara for the purpose of
the flight was the cause of the loss of visibility for the pilot. The FAA
issued in 1978 a directive that all aircraft will have shoulder harnesses
installed. Despite an illegal operation, non complying pilot and aircraft
an excuse was found to force libility on the manufacturer of the plane of
some 40+ years age.
< 1. Discourage third party maintenance.
Least of the worries. Not a competative issue in reality. Cost to repair
was near cost ot manufacuture so they had better be cheap.
< 2. Avoid having the problems caused by the #$%^&* plastic clips on the
< VT100 breaking. Is there a cheap source of 'em for my pile of VT100's
< I've been using bolts and crazy glue and nuts when needed.
That was also a consideration. as time progresed better fasteners, cost
driven elements and producability items would all instigate various
solutions.
Allison
Does anybody have any C64 or VIC-20 peripherals to sell? Please see
message below tag line.
Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)verio.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2!
See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details
[Last web page update: 07/21/98]
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 17:47:50 EDT
From: Ferock(a)aol.com
To: siconic(a)jasmine.psyber.com
Subject: Vic 20 & Commodore 64
I am looking to buy old peripheral equipment for the Commodore 64 and Vic 20.
If you know anyone that is interested in selling these please e-mail me or
give me a call.
Thanks
Glenn
Ferock(a)aol.com
212-596-9184
Hello, all:
Does anyone have a copy of the Tim Patterson (Seattle Computer Products)
article series from Byte? I belive that it talked about DOS (...or QDOS or
86/DOS...). Thanks.
Rich Cini/WUGNET <nospam_rcini(a)msn.com>
- ClubWin/CW6
- MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking
- Preserver of "classic" computers
<<<< ========== reply separator ========== >>>>>
The whole movie makes ya wonder about the future of society. Can't a guy
be nice any more without being gay? Annyway, for those who haven't seen
it, a supermodel is frantically stabbing at the numbers on the dial, not
knowing that the thing must be turned. What's a CLI?
>(There's a great scene in In & Out involving a rotary phone... makes
ya
>think about the future of CLI's...)
>
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
O-
>
>Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
>roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen
know."
>Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
>San Francisco, California
http://www.sinasohn.com/
>
>
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Well, I made some progess with the Mac Portable today. Although I still
don't know what the Sad Mac code $0F means (all the FAQs that I've read skip
>from $0E to $10).
Here's what I've found:
1. The portable won't accept a 1.44mb disk created with a PowerMac
but that contains System 6.0.1 (I get the disk with the "X" in it). I
thought that the drive was a 1.44mb disk.
2. It will not accept a 400k disk.
3. It will not accept an 800k disk formatted by an SE/30 which
contains System 6.0.1.
4. It *will* accept an 800k installer disk, but it complains that the
disk contains a "minimal" script file, and that I need a "full" install
script. Arrrgh...
Time to hit ftp.apple.com
Rich Cini/WUGNET <nospam_rcini(a)msn.com>
- ClubWin/CW6
- MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking
- Preserver of "classic" computers
<<<< ========== reply separator ========== >>>>>
I still don't get it. Anyway, while we're on topic, has everyone
heard that the U.S.S. Yorktown's NT system crashed, causing it's
engines to fail and forcing a towboat to pull it back to shore?
The Navy is considering installing more NT systems; they won't install
UNIX due to some protocol, not sure. Check www.osnews.com/news for
the link to the story.
>Do you know what Hello Kitty is?
>If so, amuse yourself with the following...
>
>http://www.sanrio.co.jp/products/notepc/notepc.html
>Ignore the Japanese, what you're intersted in is down a little ways.
>
>When they make one like Ami-chan's got, I'll be interested.
>-------
>
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This is slightly different. It is difficult to see spinning blades,
and people in third world countries who aren't used to helicopters
are known to injure themselves, not noticing them. Especially if this
was the same guy who drilled his brains out :) I assume you've all heard
of the Darwin awards...
>>Person tries to commit suicide using electric drill. Not fatal,
>>significant brain damage. Heirs sue and the award is in the millions.
>>Reason, does not say the drill should not be used for surgery.
>This may be simply anecdotal, but keeping in mind the other two:
>
>Man (accidently) walks into spinning tail rotor of helicopter... his
>family sues because it wasn't placarded that it might be dangerous to
>walk into rotating blades...
>
>("Think of it as evolution in action.") :-)
>
> Megan Gentry
> Former RT-11 Developer
>
>+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
>| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry zk3.dec.com
|
>| Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg world.std.com
|
>| Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of ' '
|
>| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/
|
>| Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler
|
>| (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg
|
>+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
>
>
______________________________________________________
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That's dead, I'll replace it. Should I also change the black bar-
shaped 7.5 v cell? It's dead too, and I don't know what it's for.
>> The thing powers up off the keyboard, like a mac. I tried powering it
>> off a PC SMPSU, otherwise loaded by the PC from which it came. The
>> PSU was working fine, and I got correct voltages, even the right
>> voltages on the external power connector on the laptop (I connected
>> the wires to the battery terminals). And now matter how many times I
>> pressed the on button, the #*%^)!$ thing wouldn't start. Ideas?
>
>I've seen this one several times.
>
>Check/change the 3V 'coin cell' - the disk-like lithium cell that's
>hidden inside the machine. It's needed for the power-on switch to work.
>
>-tony
>
>
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< >Another is more complex but offers a few more possibilities. Use on the
< >the interrupt levels and put ram at the rom addresses. The load vector
< >can then be used to copy the ROMS from somewhere else to low memory. By
< >doing this rom patching can be done or complete overlay of that 8k space
<
< Of course, but it also would require a *lot* of hacking to get done
< and has some potential dangers. Mind you, P0 and P1 are free on the
< 9901 and could be used as "page bits" for multiple segments of
< ROM/RAM. Personally I like to keep things simple. Writing ROM
< overlays is not fun and I'd rather avoid it. B'sides, if I can get
< away with just using 2 *Very cheap* TTL components, so be it. I'll
< still put POLLs in my software, but I'll include an IFD in my macro
< and compile 2 versions, one with, one without.
Not really. the trick used in 9900s is to use load to start a rom based
program that copies itself to where ever needed and then turns itself off.
The way I'd do it is to put a small rom at F000h and ram where the old roms
were. The old rom can then be located at D000h with only a few bits (one)
needed to turn off the old roms and the boot room. I do this all the time
with Z80s to get the system totaly ram based but with the advantages of rom
start up/restart. The trivial trick is to make it seem invisible. the big
advantage is if you want to use the memory for something else you can but
makesure to do a relod if you want things back to normal.
I recently got an extra console that will be modified so that a pair of
32kx8s will map in to where rom, and 32kb expansion ram would be.
IE: 0000->3fffh and A000->FFFFh. using 2 32kx8s keeps the chip count low
even though 50% is wasted, besides they are cheap. The effect is the
system could be much faster as it does not need the PEB access for base
ram.
I may want to yuse the full 64kb of the pars so I need to know how one of
the larger cards like the corcomp 512k map. Do they do it as if it were
multiples of 32k or are the two segments (2000->3FFFh and A000->FFFFh)
mapped seperately or is it done in 8k segments?
< Just a little FIFO would work well, but then, if the CPU bottlenecks
< on data because it is physically too slow to even PROCESS the data,
< such high data rates become useless and potentially dangerous.
Not really it's a matter of buffering the data and post processing it
when the tide slows or issueing an Xoff/suspend to stop the flow before
the buffer overfills. This situation is nothing new, though in the world
of CPU with clocks in the UHF region people may forget that. However the
problems of data arriving faster than it can be processed is old hat.
Besides with a ramdisk buffering a few kb of data is nothing.
Allison
Okay, for me it's easy: <http://www.sinasohn.com/clascomp/> 8^)
Not listed is a "101 California" terminal, a Zenith keyboard terminal,
Fujitsu Stylistic 500, Everex 386 Laptop, and the 128K mac, Altos 8000, HP
3000, HP 9000/310, and hp9000/345. Hmmm. And the odd 8-bit atari, and the
MSX machine, and a few others that don't really fit into my collection.
So, it's a little over 100, of which 80+ are portables.
--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/
Do you know what Hello Kitty is?
If so, amuse yourself with the following...
http://www.sanrio.co.jp/products/notepc/notepc.html
Ignore the Japanese, what you're intersted in is down a little ways.
When they make one like Ami-chan's got, I'll be interested.
-------
< knowing that the thing must be turned. What's a CLI?
< >(There's a great scene in In & Out involving a rotary phone... makes
< ya
< >think about the future of CLI's...)
Command line interface... what you say to dos if ther isn't winders in the
way.
Allison
On Jul 18, 22:53, Tony Duell wrote:
> Subject: Re: How many computers?
> > My friend reports that the Graduate doesn't have a BBC ROM, and indeed
> > doesn't use the Tube. It uses the 1MHz bus to access BBC I/O,
apparently.
>
> You know, I thought I remembered it having a 34 pin ribbon cable. (1MHz
> bus, not Tube).... Time to dig it out and experiment.
>
> How on earth does the Beeb know it's there, though, without a ROM.
> Acorn's MOS (the Beeb ROM OS) doesn't look for peripherals on the 1MHz
> bus, surely?. I can't believe it needed a BBC disk as well...
Yes, I find that very odd too. The address lines, page selects, and R/W
signals on the 1MHz bus are unidirectional (direction: out of Beeb) so
about the only things the Graduate could control would be the NMI, IRQ, and
analogue input lines.
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Dept. of Computer Science
University of York
>
> On Sun, 19 Jul 1998, Wayne Cox wrote:
> > Hi, I was given this email address as being the "Classic Computer
> > Collectors List." Not sure if it is a "subscribe to" mailing list or an
> > individual.
>
> This is THE place 8-) Hope you got subscribed ok - if not - try again.
> And stand back for about 50+ messages a day ranging from Z1 to the - well
> latest thing (frowned on but never ignored 8-)
>
> > I have some antiquated DEC equipment I'd like to see find a
> > good home and was refered here.
>
> Interesting thought - I mean IS there such a thing as an -
> 'antiquated DEC equipment'
> I thought not 8-) Your ISP is out of Ohio... Is that where the equipment
> is? A list of what is available and where would help out a lot.
>
> > -Wayne Cox
> > wcox(a)infinet.com, wcox(a)usaeroteam.com
>
> Once again - Welcome!
>
> BC
> =========================================================================
> Name: Classic Computer Rescue List
> URL: http://www.geocities.com/BourbonStreet/1055/classic.html
> (Collectors by areas)
> Name: The Classic Computer Encyclopedia Page
> URL: http://www.xnet.com/~danjo/classic/
> (Darn near dead - no input for about 6 months...)
> Name: Classic Computer ListOp
> URL: http://haliotis.bothell.washington.edu/classiccmp/
> (Hmmmm... Bill - ya want to move this to a working system?)
>
And don't forget Bill Yakowenko's classiccmp distributed Web-page archives at
http://www .cs.unc.edu/~yakowenk/classiccmp
and Doug Yowza's classiccmp FAQ backup at
http://www.yowza.com/classiccmp
Does anyone know if haliotis is still archiving ? My machine always hangs
when I try and access it.
ciao larry
lwalker(a)interlog.com
lwalker(a)interlog.com
The thing powers up off the keyboard, like a mac. I tried powering it
off a PC SMPSU, otherwise loaded by the PC from which it came. The
PSU was working fine, and I got correct voltages, even the right
voltages on the external power connector on the laptop (I connected
the wires to the battery terminals). And now matter how many times I
pressed the on button, the #*%^)!$ thing wouldn't start. Ideas?
>Surely you mean 170mA here. It's normal to charge at the C/10 rate, at
>least when trickle charging. And I'd give it about 14 hours to make up
>for losses in the battery (you never get the energy out that you put
in).
>
>> If the 'float voltage of the battery goes over the 12v figure, that
will
>> cut down the charging current. The _best_ thing would be a
milliammeter
>> on the PS output, and a variac controlling input of the _big_ PS.
>
>Wait a second. I thought he was using a PC power supply. Those have
>internal regulation. Hanging one off a Variac won't do a darn thing
apart
>from test the line regulation of the PSU.
>
>>
>> Now, as to whether or not you can get away with the 'big PS' on the
>> laptop instead of the battery? If at all possible, don't try. The
>> battery is providing an imense ammount of conditioning to the
incoming
>> power flow. (There are amazing ammounts of garbage floating on top of
>> the normal PS output. [everything from 'lightning induced spikes, on
>
>Every regulated power supply that I have ever seen has a fair amount of
>internal filtering. Now while it's not a good idea to only load one of
>the subsiduary outputs of an SMPS (and remember that in a PC PSU, the
5V
>output is the main one, from which the regualtor sense lines are
taken),
>I think that noise on the output would be the least of your worries.
>
>> down to spikes from the local refrigerator turning on].) If you
_must_
>> try, it won't hurt to throw a few thousand mfd of capacitor across
>> things. Voltage wise, you are probably O.K.
>
>There's probably 2200-4700uF inside the PSU across the 12V rail.
>
>>
>> Chuck
>
>-tony
>
>
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Puh-leeze! With humour that consistently bad, let me make a suggestion. 86 the
pathetic attempts at humour. Keep on topic without trying to be cute all the
time.
Ghia
In a message dated 98-07-20 21:14:48 EDT, you write:
<< One thing that can be said for those ancient Western Electric clunkers
is that they can't be killed, they can only be landfilled at a
crossroad with a stake through the bell. Rumour has it that that after
World War III the cockroaches will be able to use them to call Elvis.
--
Ward Griffiths <mailto:gram@cnct.com> <http://www.cnct.com/home/gram/>
They say that politics makes strange bedfellows.
Of course, the main reason they cuddle up is to screw somebody else.
Michael Flynn, _Rogue Star_
>>
While we're on the subject of old phones and phone systems, if you're ever
in Edmonton, (Alberta, Canada) there is a pretty cool telephone museum
there. Edmonton had something like the first phone system in Alberta or
maybe even Canada. Anyway, I thought it was pretty cool.
--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/
At 02:31 PM 7/16/98 -0700, you wrote:
>> Believe it or not there are still many people out there with old
>(ancient) rotary dial telephones.
>
>Hey, I still have one, in my computer room (ex-spare bedroom) at home.
Got one next to my bed for my main #. Also got a wall mount around
somewhere, just waiting for a good place to mount it.
(There's a great scene in In & Out involving a rotary phone... makes ya
think about the future of CLI's...)
--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/
At 10:12 AM 7/15/98 PDT, you wrote:
>A short refresher on human psychology. Most of the time, a clearly
>thinking person does not do anything they consider wrong. Your spammer
>thinks he is doing someone a favor, and your songs are disrespectful
Nah, Spammers just want to get rich, without consideration of the cost to
others.
No different than if I went to Safeway, shoved a bunch of sodas down my
pants, and left to set up a store of my own.
--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/
Lawrence Walker wrote:
> To clearify, a Model II requires an additional CPU card. This is a MC68000 CPU
> with a daughter card or two that may contain from 128K to 1 Meg of RAM. It
> depends. There were several memory card configurations. I have some from
> the 128K to the 1 Meg varity. The really rare ones are the 4 Meg memory cards.
There was never a Tandy 4 Meg card. Bob Snapp had boards to take a 16
or 6000 up to 8 Meg, but the memory management permitted only a max of
1 Meg "user" RAM -- the rest could be used as RAM disk, permitting a
/dev/swap far larger and faster than Tandy hardware. It was damned
impressive to see his stuff at the Tangent conference in Fort Worth in
1986, 15 terminals (plus console) filePro databases faster than a stock
system could with three users.
> In addtion, You should have a HD controller. This card will have the WD1010
> or WD1020 chipset. It will allow you to attach up to 2 MFM drives. The
> standard MFM cabling has one "Control" cable that is dasiy-chained to all
> drives. Then the smaller "Data" cable is connected directly from the HD to
> the drive controler card. I have not see a controler card that was able
> to use more than two HDs at a time. All the Tandy manufactured card would
> use the WD1010 chipset which allows up to 70Mb HDs. Some after-market
> people upgraded to the WD1020 chipset which increased the HD capacity to
> the 130 ro 150Mb range. I dont remember the exact upper limit although
> they did not make MFM drives much larger that 150 Mb as I recall. All the
> HDs should be free standing. Only a possiable drive select jummper should
> differ the HDs in the external cases.
Actually, except for the 6000HD which would only accept one external
drive after the internal, all hard disk subsystems for the Model
II/12/16/6000 line would permit four external drives, either all 8.4
Meg (the 8" Shugart "original" system) or any combination of 5, 12, 15,
35 or 70 MB (the later 5.25" system). At least that was the case with
official Tandy hard drives.Those latter would also attach in quantities
up to four to any of the Model One/3/4 product line or the Color
Computer. That's what always surprised me when PCs and compatibles
were limited to two drives, at least until SCSI and EIDE.
--
Ward Griffiths <mailto:gram@cnct.com> <http://www.cnct.com/home/gram/>
They say that politics makes strange bedfellows.
Of course, the main reason they cuddle up is to screw somebody else.
Michael Flynn, _Rogue Star_
Hi, I was given this email address as being the "Classic Computer
Collectors List." Not sure if it is a "subscribe to" mailing list or an
individual. I have some antiquated DEC equipment I'd like to see find a
good home and was refered here.
-Wayne Cox
wcox(a)infinet.com, wcox(a)usaeroteam.com
Sorry to continue, but I don't currently have newsgroup access and
I have serached on the newsgroups for my problem via Dejanews.
I decided to attempt to recharge my battery using a PC power supply.
Will this work? The battery is labelled to be 12V, 1.7 Ahr. It's a
NiCd. The power supply is 12V 6Ah. I'm doing it now, but I'm wondering
how long I should leave it, or should I not have done it at all.
Also, can I power the laptop with 6ah directly from the PSU though
the battery is rated at 1.7 without frying it?
No more questions about this from me. Thanks.
P.S. does anyone know why this laptop has three batteries? THe main
one that I was talking about above, a little black 2.7v NiCd like on
a PC, and a round flat one like in a watch, only bigger. What's this
last one for?
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At 03:04 PM 7/20/98 -0500, you wrote:
>2. Fortune 32:16, formerly running ForPro. Unfortunately, the boot drive
crashed. He has tapes,
>floppies, but no HD (I think) - is this worthy to be kept?
The fortune 32:16 was one cool machine; it was way ahead for its time,
so naturally, scarcely anyone bought them :-(
Ok, one more question. This may seem dumb to you electronics experts,
but when charging, should I attach the positive terminal of the AC
adapter to the positive or to the negative terminal of the battery?
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Okay, I just dug through my bookshelf, and found a 1986 inmos databook.
Chapter 5 is "Transputer Products", and includes the following:
Selection Guide (1 page)
IMS T414 Transputer (16 pages)
IMS T212 Transputer (12 pages)
IMS C001 Link Adaptor (4 pages)
IMS C002 Link Adaptor (4 pages)
IMS B001 Evaluation Board (4 pages)
IMS B002 Evaluation Board (4 pages)
IMS B004 Evaluation Board (4 pages)
IMS D100 Development Station (4 pages)
IMS D600 Development System VAX/VMS (4 pages)
IMS D700 Development System IBM PC (4 pages)
OCCAM (2 pages)
Let me know if you need info from this, and if it is urgent.
Cheers,
Bill.
> Dellett, Anthony wrote:
>
> > Well... I finally found one, I ordered a used Imsai 8080 from an
> > undisclosed place in CA (they had one on consignment) and they're
> > shipping it to me here in Boston.
>
> Not even gonna guess what shipping is cross country for that
> heavy of a
> machine. Does it work did they say?
>
Shipping was only $71, the guy is even foam packing it.
I guess I can confess and say it's coming from Weird Stuff Warehouse in
Sunnyvale.
This is an as-is sale but I'm sure if it doesn't work, I can fix it :)
Tony
A friend of mine has two systems that he needs to find info on.
1. Symbolics 3650 - this system boots into a wierd LISP command prompt, but complains durring boot
about not being able to find the rest of the "world." Any info to help admin the thing would be
groovy.
2. Fortune 32:16, formerly running ForPro. Unfortunately, the boot drive crashed. He has tapes,
floppies, but no HD (I think) - is this worthy to be kept?
Any help will be appreciated. I might end up adding these systems to my collection, right next to my
7 VAX systems.
--
J. Buck Caldwell
Engineer - Technical Support - Webmaster
Polygon, Inc. email:buck_c@polygon.com phone: (314) 432-4142
PO Box 8470 http://www.polygon.com/ fax: (314) 997-9696
St. Louis, MO 63132 ftp://ftp.polygon.com/ bbs: (314) 997-9682
These hinges are metal, and there's no pointing device of any sort.
Do you know the pinout of the power connector or not?
>
>I have seen more broken hinges on Compaqs than any other machine. In
>fact, I challenge anybody to find a used Compaq Concerto that doesn't
have
>broken hinges. There's a thriving third-party industry in Compaq
Portable
>repair. As a result of this, it's fairly easy to find replacement
parts
>for them (but often at high prices).
>
>As far as ergonomics go, I give you 10 minutes of trying to use that
>screen-mounted track ball before you throw the machine across the room.
>
>> have to agree with. Unfortunatley, the docking station was being sold
>> for more than the portable. But, hey! You use one too! Hipocrite ;)
>
>I use Compaqs to practice my repair technique. I got a couple of them
>recently in which the hinges had become degreased and stiff, so the
owners
>broke the displays off trying to use their laptops. I haven't found a
>good replacement for the hinges yet, but re-greasing and reinforcing
the
>hinges with metal plates gives me working 486 laptops at around $10
each.
>I put them to work as dedicated controllers and linux servers since
their
>power consumption is lower than an old desktop.
>
>-- Doug
>
>
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At 11:08 AM 7/20/98 PDT, you wrote:
>
>Sorry to continue, but I don't currently have newsgroup access and
>I have serached on the newsgroups for my problem via Dejanews.
>I decided to attempt to recharge my battery using a PC power supply.
>Will this work? The battery is labelled to be 12V, 1.7 Ahr. It's a
>NiCd. The power supply is 12V 6Ah.
The power supply is probably rated at 6A, not 6Ah. 6 amps charging would be too
much for an 1.7Amp hour battery and would greatly shorten its life. 200 or
300 mA would be much better.
However, charging a 12 Volt battery off a 12 Volt regulated power supply
most likely will not completely charge it, as the float charging voltage is
closer
to 13.5 volts. You need something designed as a charger to get the full
capacity from the battery.
-Dave
Just want to brag, like the rest of you about this weeks' find. A
Compaq SLT 286!! Anyone know anything about it, how much it's worth??
Mike Sheflin
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Remember that Compaq is the first PC clone maker and the first
portable PC maker ever. I think that's not bad.
>Bragging about Compaqs -- that's an interesting concept. Kind of like
>being proud of pimples.
>
I doubt any of that is true. I mean, sure, they're not GRiDs, and I
don't think this one is unergonomic. The power connector bit, I'll
have to agree with. Unfortunatley, the docking station was being sold
for more than the portable. But, hey! You use one too! Hipocrite ;)
>Compaq is the leader in three areas of portable design: the world's
most
>fragile portables, the world's least ergonomic portables, and the
world's
>weirdest and largest variety of proprietary power connectors.
>
>The power adapter is pretty hard to find, compared to finding a
>thrown-away LTE Lite. I've never seen the connector available as a
>standard part. You can also power the thing from the proprietary bus
>connector, so you might have an easier time finding a cheap docking
>station to power/charge than finding/making an A/C adatper.
>
>Another alternative is a cool briefcase made for insurance adjusters
that
>was custom designed for the LTE Lite, and has an A/C plug in the
>briefcase. You can get them for around $30 from Halted:
> http://www.halted.com/
>
>BTW, I need the flex cable that connects to the display of an LTE Lite.
>I'll trade a battery for one.
>
>-- Doug
>
>
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At 04:06 PM 7/19/98 -0500, you wrote:
>On Sun, 19 Jul 1998, Max Eskin wrote:
>
>> I also want to brag that I got a Compaq Lite-25 486.
>
>Bragging about Compaqs -- that's an interesting concept. Kind of like
>being proud of pimples.
>
>> question: does anyone know what their power connector pinout is? It's
>> a weird little three-pin thing like the compaq monitor power
>> interface. Does anyone have plugs or know where to get them?
>
>Compaq is the leader in three areas of portable design: the world's most
>fragile portables, the world's least ergonomic portables, and the world's
>weirdest and largest variety of proprietary power connectors.
>
You forgot one category: Most difficult to open. The last LTE I tried to
open required the skill of a surgeon to dissassemble.
Jeff
>>OK, possibly the last entry in this thread. (Hey, I've been too busy to
>>keep up with this list!)
> Nope, I'm even slower at getting around to doing things...
:) Not slower, courious before sending myself, but now:
Meeeeeeeeeeeee toooooooooooooooooo:
Computer:
KIM
PC 100 (OEM AIM 65 from SIEMENS)
PET (small and big Keyboard)
CBM 2001
CBM 3016
(and several 40xx and 80xx)
CBM SK 8296
CBM SK 8296D
CBM 610
CBM 720
Commodore B500
(and some printers and floppies)
VC-20
C64 (more than 10 - never counted)
C64-II (C64C)
C64G
(and some 1541, 1570,1571 floppies)
C128
C16
C116
Plus 4
Amiga 500
Amiga 1000
Amiga 2000
ITT MP-Experimerter
SC/MP II
EUROCOM I
APPLE ][euro+
APPLE //c
APPLE ///
Lisa 2
Macintosh 128K
Macintosh IIsi
Macintosh LC II
Macintosh Performa 630 DOS
Basis 108
Ohio Superboard II
TRS 80 Mod I Lv2 & Expansion
TRS 80 Mod III & Hard Disk
TRS 80 Model 4
Video-Genie
EG2002 Colour Genie
Olivetti M10
IBM-PC
IBM-PC/XT Clone
(And about 5 or 6 modern clones)
SIRIUS 1
OSBORNE 1DQD
Philips P2000C
Pascal Microengine
ATARI 400 (German and US)
ATARI 800 (German and US)
ATARI 600XL
ATARI 800XL
ATARI ST 520+
ATARI 1040 ST E
ORIC 1
ORIC ATMOS
Sinclair ZX80
Sinclair ZX81
Sinclair ZX Spectrum+
Sinclair Z88
Sinclair QL
Your Computer (8300)
Laser 50
Laser 2000
Dragon 32
Dragon 64
BBC Computer
Yashica YC-64 (MSX I)
Sony HiBit (MSX I)
Philips VG8010/00 (MSX)
S100-Bus Systems (several CPUs and so on)
Eltec 80
SANYO MB 1000
Sharp MZ80A
Sharp MZ80B
Sharp MZ80K
Sharp MZ811
Sharp MZ821
SWTP 6800
Motorola MEK6802D5
EXORterm (...), sowie ca. 15 weitere 6800, 6802 & 6809 Boards,
ENTERPRISE 128
TA Alphatronic
TA Alphatronic PC
TA Walkstation 286
Superbrain
HP 9121
Tatung TCS-4000
SIEMENS Mikroset 8080
SIEMENS 5521
SIEMENS PC 16-10
SIEMENS PC-D
SIEMENS PC-MX (9780)
SIEMENS PC-MX2
SIEMENS WS30-435(Apollo)
SIEMENS PCD-3T
SIEMENS PCD-4T
SIEMENS PCD-4G
486er Clone
Pentium.
Terminals:
TI Silent 700
TI Silent 709
Whisper Reader Mod 1951
SIEMENS 97801 (gruen && weis)
EECO D400
Heazeltine 1000
(and several other)
Taschenrechner:
Newton OMP (OS 1.3 upgraded)
Newton 120 (OS 1.3)
Newton MP2000
Ti 74S
SHARP PC 1211
SHARP PC 1241
SHARP PC 1250
SHARP PC 1251
SHARP PC 1261
SHARP PC 1430
SHARP PC 1500A
sowie 14 nicht-Basic Taschenrechner.
Videogames:
ATARI XE
ATARI Jaguar
ATARI Lynx
ATARI VCS
ATARI VCS 2600
Philips G7000
MEMO TEST
(and several early '80s junk :)
Maybe sone are missing ... I never did a listing :(
Gruss
H.
--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK
Christian Fandt <cfandt(a)servtech.com> wrote:
> Aha! Now I can connect QIC36/QIC02.... My HP 250 uses DC600 type tape carts.
Don't be too sure of that. If it's a 9144 drive or one integrated in
a 79xx disc drive, it uses tapes that are mechanically the same but
with a completely different format called HCD that predates the QIC
formats and cannot be completely recorded in the field. THe format
involves full-width block markers that can't be recorded by the heads
in the drives.
Bob Niland used to post something about this over in comp.sys.hp.*
when someone popped the question. Go do a search in DejaNews for
author rjn(a)csn.net in comp.sys.hp.hardware looking for the keywords
QIC and HCD and you will probably turn it up.
-Frank McConnell
>> Just want to brag, like the rest of you about this weeks' find. A
>> Compaq SLT 286!! Anyone know anything about it, how much it's worth??
hmm, was there sarcasm buried in there or not? :)
I've got one of those things somewhere... weighs about five tons and the
battery lasts for about five minutes. Still, they were pretty well built
machines, had mono VGA screens, the one I've got has a 42MB hard drive
in it (which I suppose was pretty damn good for a laptop of that time).
not really worth anything now (seem to remember they were over 4000 UK
pounds when new - isn't depreciation great? ;) but you may find a use
for it...
(I suppose it has some nostalgia value for me - it was my first exposure
to the world of PCs... I remember the hard drive on mine had been
partitioned into two, and I spent months marvelling at a whole 12MB of
space before I found the other 30MB ;*)
cheers
Jules
>
Wow... those were some really quick responses, thanks!
The gear I'm looking to unload is a PDP 11/35 and a VAX 750, both in the
Dayton, Ohio area. Fairly big stuff to move if you're familiar with.
I hate to barge in on a mailing list and ask newbie questions; But if
anyone could point me to, or provide info on subscribing, FAQs, etc I'd
appreciate it !
Me?? - - A 30ish hack, teeth cut on PDPs and Apples in the late 70's. Why
is my 45000000MHz windoze machine so @!#$ slow ?!?!?
-Wayne
A heads-up for any Southern CA GearHeads.. the TRW Swapmeet is
this Saturday, the 25th, at the TRW El Segundo facility, from 7:30
am til 11:30 am. (Every month, always the *last* saturday)
I have made many happy recoveries there over the years, including
the $50 IMSAI 8080 / 4 8" drives/ tons o' software that I scored a
few months back... and Marvin's Rockwell AIM with FORTH in PROM...
as well as loads of electronic and radio-related Stuff.
Anyone wishing more info, e-mail me direct... also it might be
an Amusing Idea to have a bit of a get-together afterward... maybe?
Just a (not original) thought...
I have two permanent Selling Spaces... Items are cheerfully
accepted for sale by you (unless they're bigger than my truck...) as
long as I get Rights of First Refusal on yer jun^H^H^H merchandise.
Cheers
John
This thread is becoming awesome!!
OK I've been holding off. Since I'm the great procrastinator, I've been
avoiding catalogueing what I've got.
Synapsis is I've got 40 to 50 computers, heavy into Atari and PS2
Many monitors that I'm weeding out to keep the unique ones like the
Radius Portrait for Apples or historic like the IBM 5151and 5153.
Vic-20, C-64 ,C-64c, C128
Mac Plus, Apple II, IIPlus , IIe
CoCo 1 and CoCo 2
TI 4/99
TRS80 model II with 3 physically huge 8 meg HDDs
Phillips Micom 2000 dedicated WP with an 8" Shugart
and a Qume daisy wheel printer that has a power supply big enough
to power a small villiage.
Epson QX-10 which I'm only missing a monitor to activate.
Phillips XT Luggable with pop-up floppies. The nicest design I've seen yet for
a luggable.
Kaypro 2X that I haven't got running yet, but soon.
DEC Rainbow, one of my first garbage finds that after 4 years I finally have
the all hardware for. Last week a local store anti'd up a BC002 cable.
Wang PC002 no means of I/O , but I'm sure it will turn up.
NEC Prospeed 286 laptop
Numerous other MSDOS boxes
I think what especially interests me are the external hacks. Like the
Intel Inboard 386 board.in a 5150, or the hardcard drives. I have a good
proportion of the Atari and C64 add-ons. I have an X1541 cable for a C64. The
adapter on my CoCo 2 that I still haven't explored its use. A Videomate to use
my old boxes as TV's long before the new TV cards for Windoze. Of course you
could do the same with a VCR and a composite video. Quickshot remote control
Joysticks Some graphics tablets.
These were all attempts to respond to a burgeoning home-computer market that
were developed in response to consaumer wants. Many of these small but
highly innovative companies quickly disappeared. The boards switches were
not easily evident unless you had the documentataion So if the board cloned
the IBM docunentation you're home-free but if it was a board that had
anomilies, you're on your own. That to me is one of the values of this m-l .
Having access to true hardware hackers like Tony Duell and Allison and others.
ciao larry
lwalker(a)interlog.com
Hi Tony and all,
At 01:07 PM 7/19/98 +0100, you wrote:
>Greetings...
>
>I'm got a partially faultly Sirius (aka Victor 9000?) on the bench at the
>moment, and it appears to have (at least) a sound fault.
>
>Alas there are 2 chips in the sound circuitry that I can't find any data
>on :
>
>Harris CI55516-9 (16 pin DIL, maybe a codec or similar)
>Spague (?) ULN3701Z (5 pin TO220, audio amplifier).
>
Pin 1. audio input.(+)
Pin 2. Feedback.(-)
Pin 3. ground
Pin 4. out
Pin 5. Vcc
Uses the same circuit as National LM 383.
-Dave
Hi Richard and all
At 08:41 AM 7/19/98 -0400, you wrote:
>Hello, all:
>
> While going through the old Popular Electronics magazines that I
>recently got, I found two article series that I would like to have complete,
>but I'm missing two issues...bummer.
>
> Does anyone have the following and would be willing to mail me a copy:
>
> 1. Popular Electronics, March 1977, Part 3 of the "Build the
>Cosmac Elf" construction article.
>
I have this one, it is 5 pages. The memory used is 8 2102 ram's.
Don't have the first 2, August, 1976 or September 1976, however.
-Dave
I also want to brag that I got a Compaq Lite-25 486. This is not a
classic, and I am about to go to Compaq's site to research it. A
question: does anyone know what their power connector pinout is? It's
a weird little three-pin thing like the compaq monitor power
interface. Does anyone have plugs or know where to get them?
>That's not terribly amazing.
>
>Its basically a Compaq 286 portable. Probably from around the 1986 or
>1987 timeframe.
>
>What did you pay for it? That's what its worth (to you).
>
>Sam Alternate e-mail:
dastar(a)siconic.com
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Ever onward.
>
> September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2
> See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
> [Last web page update: 07/05/98]
>
>
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
i did some bartering a while back and got a mitsubishi 286 laptop circa 1987 i
think. it boots up to some post errors which i can get past by hitting F1.
it's a phoenix bios, and i've tried every key combination thats's known to
access the cmos setup, all to no avail. it appears to have a hard drive, but
am unable to access it. i've web searched everywhere, but cannot find any
support contact for this machine. i ended up round filing a mitsubishi 386dx
machine last year because i couldnt find any info on it. i didnt even get any
replies in comp.sys.laptops about this laptop. help anyone?
david
I've a number of Transputer boards dating from the late
eighties which fit into PCs. Whilst I can use any one
single board, I've been unable to install more than one
board as I've no information on the jumper and dip switch
settings. Of course, some boards may not be capable of being
anything other than the root transputer. Anyone
have, or know where I can find such information on the following
boards:
Transtech TMB04
Sundance ST101
Gemini GM8101
Microway Monoputer2
Thanks,
Doug.
I can't find who was originally asking to locate some copies of OS/2. I
just pulled down a copy of Warp (requires Windows already installed).
The software comprises 2 floppies to install and 1 CD with the OS/2 v3
system and a "bonus" CD with IBM Works, Online access and 'more'.
The CDs are still shrink wrapped. I can't verify that it's original but
I know that where I picked them up would have no reason to re-wrap them.
I have no burning desire to let these go but if the people who
originally asked, or anyone else, REALLY needs it, I'll send them for
6.00 (six bucks) plus shipping.
Unfortunately for everyone, I ran OS/2 v3 for a while when it came out.
It turned a marginal machine into a hummer on the internet. It was
probably an excellent OS, just not too popular.
Please contact me direct at:
mallison(a)konnections.com
Thanks,
Mike
Muchas Gracias to Allison and Megan and Tony (O My!) for your help
with RT-11... the machine is running as I type this, and displaying
a directory... all entries no later than 1979... just about the
time I was spending long nights trying to figure out the Cromemco
Z2H that I had pieced together... all I had was the monitor and 16K
of RAM.. so I never shut it off for weeks... and a GE Terminet for
a console, so at the end of a session the room was swimming in roll
paper covered with hex....
Now to get the 2nd RK05 running.... THEN to figure out how to
make the RL02s peacefully co-exist in the system... THEN to install
one of my old classic modems, and write to my list friends from the
DEC system.... THEN....
But first things first.
Thanks again!!
Cheers
John
I picked up a nice, small, 9-track tape drive made by Qualstar for use
with IBM PCs. The fellow I got it from said he had the ISA adapter and
software and manuals "somewhere in a box". Of course, he can't find
them, and it's the adapter and software that I'm really after, since
Pertec-interface 9-track drives are fairly common.
(I'd like to think this isn't the old "promise the important stuff to
have someone haul away the big stuff" ploy, but it's happened to me
several times now!)
Pehaps someone out there has one, or knows the whereabouts of an
ISA Pertec adapter, probably made by Qualstar, Chi Corporation, or
Overland Data. Software and docs to go with it are almost mandatory,
and anything that runs under DOS/Windows or any flavor of PC Unix is
OK.
Thanks,
Dave