- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by kyrrin＠jps.net

Well, dang it... I'm running out of room, and I really don't have the time that this gorgeous old beastie deserves, so.... Here's what I've got. A complete H89 system as follows. System unit with internal FD -- no screen burn that I can see, very clean. External dual FD. (all FD's are 5.25" hard-sectored 40 TPI). Cassette I/O board. OkiData Microline 82 series printer. IBM "Plug-and-Play" EPROM kit for the OkiData, something about 'Block Graphics.' Extra printer ribbon, still in the shrink wrap. Spare chips: 4116-25, 74S132, and 74LS186. PROMs (Heath/Zenith part numbers on the labels): 2 ea. 444-43 EPROMs (a pair of 2716's, also with H-Z part numbers on the labels): 444-40 That's the hardware. About the only thing that's missing (God only knows why) are the hardware manuals. I do have the following software for it, with manuals. CP/M-80, Ver. 2.2, Heath-Zenith tagged. 'Ed-a-Sketch' graphics editor. 'Reach' modem and file transfer program. PIE 1.5 full-screen editor. HUG Utilities and BASIC-E disks. NewWord Word Processor, ver. 2.17 JRT Pascal, V. 3.0. Space Odyssey 1 Microsoft BASIC Compiler on original 8" diskette, ver. 7032.530 Spare diskettes (at least a box worth). Please to make me an offer on the whole schmeer! I know I can trust you lot to make it a fair one. It would probably be best if said offer came >from someone local (Seattle, Portland, etc.). I can ship the stuff, but that could get costly even with UPS Ground. Some of the units are pretty heavy! Thanks in advance. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin(a)jps.net) (Web: http://table.jps.net/~kyrrin) SysOp: The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272, 253-639-9905) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."

27 years, 8 months

1
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Sparc Supply Schematics

by karlm＠blitzen.canberra.edu.au

I have a friend who has 6 Sparc SLC's with either dud power supplies or monitor sync problems, is the schematics for the power supplies available easily? Not having looked at them myself, I would expect that they are a standard SWPS, also would anyone know the voltages and pinouts for a sparc supply, it is probably possible to mod another kind of supply to fit :) Thanks as always :) Karl ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Karl Maftoum Computer Engineering student at the University of Canberra, Australia Email: k.maftoum(a)student.canberra.edu.au

27 years, 8 months

2
1
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Tandy Keyboard

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< I think only the CoCos could use OS9 Coco's were not even intel powered. The CPU was the 6809, they were plastic cased and bore no resembelence to the Tandy 1000(series) or 2000(series). Coco's ran a resident basic and if you had a disk interface/drive OS9 was available. Allison

27 years, 8 months

5
5
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RX50's on a PC?

by aaron＠wfi-inc.com

Has anyone tried wiring an 8" RX52 floppy straight to a modern PC controller? I did the best I know how, and I *appear* to have a semi-functioning device attached. Trying to read/format the disk >from Linux causes the drive to access; however, trying to format (even with PUTR under MsDOS) gives me a verification error and an error about Track 0. Does this sound more like a media error? The disks (Dysan 101/1) appear to be in fine condition, having been stored in rigid notebooks in plastic sleeves for the last 10 years or so in a "media-friendly" environment. There are also lifecycle logs in the sleves, which indicate that they were initialized and only written to once. I've been digging around, trying to get enough information to attempt to set up Forth on my OS-less 11/23, but I don't have another functioning system to work with (the chicken and the egg). Am I dreaming that I'm going to be able to get anything accomplished with an emulator and a pair of 8" floppys Frankensteined to my PC? On a similar note, does anyone happen to have a Compaticard for trade/sale? Aaron

27 years, 8 months

2
1
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TRS 80's available free

by rws＠ais.net

If anyone's looking for some TRS-80's please contact this guy directly. His ISP comes back as being in SC- figure freight accordingly. ----- Forwarded message from Oliver Murray ----- I have three TRS-80 computers with some software free to a good home, someone who will put them to a good use. 1. model 1 working 1. model 111 working 1 model 4p not working? +assorted software If you can use or know of someone who would like these for collector's items, they are free, make arrangements to have shipped or pick up. omurray(a)infoave.net -- Richard Schauer rws(a)ais.net

27 years, 8 months

4
3
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Tandy Keyboard

by roblwill＠usaor.net

I forget who wanted to hook up a 101 keyboard to a 1000, but here's your chance to do it: -- -Jason (roblwill(a)usaor.net) ICQ#-1730318 ---------- > From: Phil Clayton <handyman(a)sprintmail.com> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Re: Tandy Keyboard > Date: Friday, October 16, 1998 1:09 PM > > I you are really interested in using a standard 10 keyboard with your tandy ,, I > could check my adaptor box out closer and possibly tell you how to make one. I > don't think there are any real electrical changes , just rewiring the pinouts.. > Let me know, I will open the adaptor box up and tell you whats inside it if you > are serious.. > Phil.... > >

27 years, 8 months

1
0
0 0

Ultrix installation media

by paulk＠microsoft.com

I've got Ultrix RISC 4.4 and two out of the three product library disks on CDROM. They're what I used to install my DS5000's. I'm not sure if 4.4 will run on a 3100 or not, but I'd be glad to copy these for you if you like. Paul Kearns paulk(a)microsoft.com > ---------- > From: sethm@loomcom.com[SMTP:sethm@loomcom.com] > Reply To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu > Sent: Friday, October 16, 1998 4:45 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Ultrix installation media > > > I just picked up a pair of DECstation 3100's. Both of them are in > perfect working order, apart from their drives being quite severely > dead (they won't spin up, though they give it the old college try). > > Supposedly (and quite believably), the most recent version of > NetBSD/pmax is quite a bit nicer and better performing than Ultrix > ever was, but for historical and nostalgic reasons, I was really > hoping to be able to run Ultrix 4.2a on these guys. > > Does anyone have Ultrix 4.2a distribution media? Alas, I do not have > a TK50 drive; I know that was the usual distribution method, but I'm > hoping it was also available on CDROM. For some horribly sick reason > I miss Ultrix, and it would be nice to play with again. > > -Seth > -- > "The crux of the biscuit Seth J. Morabito > is the apostrophe." - Frank Zappa sethm(a)loomcom.com >

27 years, 8 months

1
0
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IBM 5126 at the local thrift store

by roblwill＠usaor.net

> > Sorry Jason, I misread your email. Thought you were questioning my > discovery.. > Wonder why IBM has called this machine a 5126 anyway ? > > Also why hasn't someone jumped at the opportunity to purchase this fine > piece of equipment to tune up their automobile with ... <Grin>!!! > > Its only 100 bucks and its the size of a large capacity washer, and weighs > 500lbs.. > It would be heaven to dissemble this monster and see what goodies lie within > it.. > Phil... > They probably called it a 5126 because it has all the diagnostic stuff. It would be neat to throw a Pentium board, 32x CD-ROM in it, an then see what it would do. Imagine having it sitting in your living room as your "PC" :-) BTW: do you know what resolution the display is? -- -Jason (roblwill(a)usaor.net) ICQ#-1730318

27 years, 8 months

2
1
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RX50 / RX33 Questions related to PDP-11's

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Oct 16, 22:30, Zane H. Healy wrote: > Subject: Re: RX50 / RX33 Questions related to PDP-11's > >> BTW what are the two extra jumpers on the later revision card? > > > >Which jumopers? > > If you look straight down, with the handles at the top, the card with the > 23-243E5 and 23-244E5 ROMs has a pair of jumpers to to the right of the > ROMs. These aren't on the cards I've got with the 23-216E5 and 23-217E5 > ROMs, nor are they on the documentation that Bruce Lane provided last > weekend. Hmmm... Not shown in my RQDX3 manual, nor on any of the microfiche I have. At first I thought you might mean W23 or W12/W13, but they're on the left. I suspect they're some factory test setting. If I have the time, I'll pull one of my RQDX3s this weekend and have a look -- though just looking at them may not do much good, of course! > The card with the later ROMs will in fact support my home made RX33's. Sounds like all the jumpers (except possibly W23) are set up right, then :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

27 years, 8 months

1
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RX50 / RX33 Questions related to PDP-11's

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Oct 15, 18:17, Zane H. Healy wrote: > Subject: Re: RX50 / RX33 Questions related to PDP-11's > Peter Turnbull wrote: > >That's 23-216E5 and 23-217E5, the first version of the RQDX3 code. The > >second revision is 23-244E5 and 23-245E5, which I think does support RX33s. > I hope you mean 23-243E5 and 23-244E5. I was able to find one controller > with that revision, however the rest were the original revision. Yes, I do, sorry! > BTW what are the two extra jumpers on the later revision card? Which jumopers? > Still no luck otherwise though. Acts the same when I try to boot. If your ROMs don't support RX33s, there are two problems that may prevent the RQDX seeing the drives as usable. First is that an RX50 responds with a READY signal as soon as it's polled, if there's a disk in it, because the READY signal is really a "disk in" signal from a set of contacts. Most drives respond with READY only after the disk is up to speed, since the signal is derived from the index pulses (the original meaning of the READY signal was that there is a disk in, and it's up to speed, as determined by measuring the time between two index pulses). The 200ms (minimum) delay prevents the RQDX seeing the disk. Second is that on an RX50, the SideSelect -- which isn't normally used, since an RX50 is really two single-sided drives -- is used to disable the TrackZero output. The RQDX tests for an RX50 by stepping to Trk0, checking the output, setting the SideSelect, and checking that the Trk0 signal has gone away. I guess these tests are probably because the RX50 shares some signals with the RDxx drives on the same distribution board. I have two or three Canon and Mitsubishi drives modified to work like this, and they work fine on RQDX2s and 3s. Unmodified, they don't. In fact, now I think about it, I have a feeling those drive "fixes" are needed for the 243/244 ROMs as well. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

27 years, 8 months

2
1
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RX50's on a PC?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< Has anyone tried wiring an 8" RX52 floppy straight to a modern PC < controller? I did the best I know how, and I *appear* to have a What is an RX52 floppy? I'll presume you mean the rather large dual drive RX02. The DEC 8" floppies are RX01/2 and have their own internal controller. That would make RX01 or 02 disk system very hard to wire to a PC floppy controller, like near impossible. FYI: The DEC RX02 DD format is not readable by any standard floppy controller chip. RX01 however is standard 128 bytes IBM softsector format. RX50 drives are fairly easy to wire to a PC it is however single sided and dual drive with one spindle. The later item will cause all mannor of errors if the driver doesn't internally know the two drives have a common positioner. However FD55s jumperd for slow spindle and only using one side work better! < On a similar note, does anyone happen to have a Compaticard for < trade/sale? Compaticard can only read RX01. Allison

27 years, 8 months

2
2
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Tandy Keyboard

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< use my m.2 and m.3 to check out OS9. I don't think m.1 can use it. There < to be a respectable amount of software that supports OS9. < ISTR also that there were other platforms that used it . Any idea what < were ? SWTP and other SS50 bus machine with 6809s in them. there was a 6809 S100 CPU that could run it. Generally speaking Moto based systems were not on my hot list back then (there was some nice stuff though!). The 6809 however did catch my eye as a pretty decent 8bit bus cpu from moto. Allison

27 years, 8 months

1
0
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Analog computer manuals available

by dcoward＠pressstart.com

Sorry, I forgot to give the number of the Heath manual replacement service. It's (616) 925-5899. If you ever lose the number, it's available on Heath's site at http://www.heathkit.com/. ========================================= Doug Coward Press Start Inc. Sunnyvale,CA =========================================

27 years, 8 months

1
0
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DEC Rainbow

by cdrmool＠interlog.com

I just grabbed a Rainbow out of the garbage with the garbage truck literally meters away from getting it. After major industrial cleanup (removing the half gallon of house paint from it and the cigarette goo), Its up and running mostly. It came with the MS-Dos 2.05 OS, some manuals, and thats it. I know diddly squat about this beast (other than the legend of it possessing two CPU's) and CP/M. So this is a very basic question. When I get to the menu at boot up it recognizes a: and b: (though a: is a bit wonky). It will also respond to W which tells me that there are two cp/m partitions: e: and f: however, when I try to go to them I get a "message 23 - Non-System Diskette". I seem to be missing the manual with numbered error messages. I'm assuming that this means that there is a hard drive problem. However, it is recognizing the partitions so something is being read. I also don't have the CP/M diskette, only the DOS. This DOS doesn't have FDISK so I can't look at the partitions via an OS I know well (though I could do it through debug but I'm being lazy here), and when I bit the bullet and tried to format the hard drive it keeps telling me to stick in the diskette to format. Any help would be appreciated otherwise I'll do a low level format on the segate drive and pray to the appropriate dieties. Colan

27 years, 8 months

1
0
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Pl-1 book

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

I went trift store shopping today and picked a copy of "Problem Solving and the Computer; A Structured Concept with PL/1 (Pl/C)" by Shortt-Wilson. Does anyone need it? Joe

27 years, 8 months

2
1
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PROM Burner

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

That reminds me, does anyone have a burner that can both read & program 16-pin 256x4 PROMs? Kai -----Original Message----- From: Doug Coward [mailto:dcoward@pressstart.com] Sent: Friday, October 16, 1998 3:27 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Re: PROM Burner Joe said: > DataI/O is the lousy about supporting the older equipment. I have a >model 29 and a 2B module. I do have instructions for the 29 but not for >the module. The 29 can be programmed from a computer by simple data >transfer via Rs-232. Or you can use the keypad to enter all the data or to >modify the data. BUT you need the instructions for the module since they >include the code numbers used to identify the various EPROMS to the >programmer. Without those codes the programmer is useless. I can't believe all of the hammering that Data I/O is taking on this list. When I got my series 22 I when right to the Obsolete Programmer Support section of Data I/Os site to get the list of code for it. They are right there!! http://www.dataio.com/support/obsolete.html or their FTP site ftp://ftp.data-io.com/dataio/ ========================================= Doug Coward Press Start Inc. Sunnyvale,CA =========================================

27 years, 8 months

1
0
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PROM Burner

by dcoward＠pressstart.com

Joe said: > DataI/O is the lousy about supporting the older equipment. I have a >model 29 and a 2B module. I do have instructions for the 29 but not for >the module. The 29 can be programmed from a computer by simple data >transfer via Rs-232. Or you can use the keypad to enter all the data or to >modify the data. BUT you need the instructions for the module since they >include the code numbers used to identify the various EPROMS to the >programmer. Without those codes the programmer is useless. I can't believe all of the hammering that Data I/O is taking on this list. When I got my series 22 I when right to the Obsolete Programmer Support section of Data I/Os site to get the list of code for it. They are right there!! http://www.dataio.com/support/obsolete.html or their FTP site ftp://ftp.data-io.com/dataio/ ========================================= Doug Coward Press Start Inc. Sunnyvale,CA =========================================

27 years, 8 months

1
0
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Tandys gone/Apples anyone?

by backofene＠hotmail.com

Wow, I didn't expect this much help getting rid of our "trash". Basically, there's nothing much unique here. Just some Apple LCs (bottom of the line) circa 1990 no fancy add ons, some Apple IIGSes, extra drives, monitors, Imagewriter printers. I'll check on Monday to see how many of each are in the store room. Perhaps, next Saturday morning we can clear the room. Write to me at: backofene(a)hotmail.com (not to the list) if you're interested and I will send you directions. Eileen > >We're located in northern VA, 7 miles from DC. The challenge is to get >the old stuff in the hands of those who want it so it doesn't wind up in >landfills. >We used to have "yard sales" to clear out the old stuff, but I got tired >of answering questions/complaints months later from people who bought an >entire system for $10, so eventually we just set the stuff out and let >any interested people take it away. With our student population >increasing, we're using every available space as classrooms. >Write me at backofene(a)hotmail.com if you want to help us "take out the >trash". > >Eileen > > >> >>> I checked the storeroom at school today to discover that all the old >>> Tandy equipment (which had collected dust there for 2 years) has been >>> disposed of. Not even a keyboard left. All I could find is an >>> assortment of Apple II GSes, drives, Imagewriters etc & a few old Mac >>> LCs. >> >>Where was this at? I wouldn't mind getting a IIgs setup but don't want >to >>pay a lot of shipping since I can probably find them locally >eventually. >> >> >>-- >> _______ KB7PWD @ KC7Y.AZ.US.NOAM >ecloud(a)goodnet.com >> (_ | |_) Shawn T. Rutledge on the web: >http://www.goodnet.com/~ecloud >> __) | | >\__________________________________________________________________ >>* Java * card-carrying member of the procrastinati * ham radio * Linux >* >> > > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 8 months

1
0
0 0

Tandy Keyboard

by backofene＠hotmail.com

There was a 101 keyboard sold by Tandy that did work with the old 1000 SXs. It has dip switches that had to be set correctly. I think it was marketed under the name Keyboard 1000 or 2000. Anyway, they were quite expensive (about $100) and we bought a few to keep our old lab going a few more years. Eileen > >A 101 keyboard will not work at all. The special 8-pin plug is there for a >reason - If you do not have a Tandy 1000 keyboard, then the keboard will >not work. >-- > -Jason >(roblwill(a)usaor.net) > ICQ#-1730318 > >> I have a 1000sx buried under a bunch of other stuff and the KB is >different. >> In the Tandy 1000 FAQ it says: >> II.E.2. Can I replace my old 90-key Tandy keyboard with a 101-key >> keyboard? >> On the EX and HX, no. On other systems, yes, but it won't work >exactly >> like a standard 101-key keyboard since the Tandy keyboard BIOS is >> different. A special 101-key keyboard made for the 1000's must be >used. >> See section IV.G. (SL and later systems came with a 101-key >keyboard, >> and a compatible BIOS.) >> >> > THROWING the 1000's away?? You ought to b4e ashamed. <g> >> > >> Landfill for the 90s. Reminds me of all the rusting autoframes scattered >across >> the country. Can't help but think that coming generations will pay for >this >> some way. >> >> ciao larry >> lwalker(a)interlog.com > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 8 months

1
0
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Joined Messages

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Oct 16, 19:19, Olminkhof wrote: > Subject: Joined Messages > I am finding an unusual number of inappropriately joined messages. A > Listserv problem? > Does anyone know how to get this fixed? Hmm... I've had this problem from time to time with Pine (a well-known but in some respects very iffy UNIX mailer) and with other mail software based on similar library code (elm, and a new GUI one whose name escapes me). The author of the library made some unwarranted assumptions about what exactly are the rules that govern separation of messages in a mailbox, and the allowed formated for the date, with the result that messages sometimes get stuck together. The author forgot the adage "be forgiving in what you accept and strict in what you transmit". It's my pet hate at the moment :-) Perhaps yuo have a similar problem, either on your local system or your ISP's? -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

27 years, 8 months

1
0
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DEC memru cards

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

I picked up three DEC memory cards at a surplus store. Can anyone tell me what machine they're for and what size they are? They're marked "54-19813-AT" and "ZGO4830455". They have about 78 1 Meg ICs on them. They must be loaded! Joe

27 years, 8 months

1
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Available: Couple more PDP-11 refs

by djenner＠halcyon.com

I dug up a couple more spare PDP-11 references. These are both small "paperback" books: MICRO/PDP-11 Handbook, 1983-1984. EB 24944 18/83. Microsystems Handbook (1985). EB 26085-41/85 04 04/43. I'd give priority on a trade for a "recent" (~1985-86) Unibus peripherals handbook (for 11/24, 11/44, 11/84 peripherals). But let me know even if you don't have anything to trade. Dave Jenner djenner(a)halcyon.com

27 years, 8 months

2
1
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mucho Altairs on eBay

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

Not a great auction presentation, if you ask me. The same poor overhead photo for both units, which gives us no idea of cosmetic condition. Apparently no documentation. Sold "as is" ?!? How could a front-panel computer be "untested"? And on top of all that, the seller has a (0) rating (i.e. never sold anything on eBay before). Beware... Kai -----Original Message----- From: Bob Wood [mailto:altair8800@hotmail.com] Sent: Thursday, October 15, 1998 6:54 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: mucho Altairs on eBay Looks like the Albuqurque Altairs are coming out of the woodwork. There is now a 680 and a 680b to go with the 8800bt. If anyone was monitoring the auction of the 680 a couple of weeks ago which did not meet the reserve price of $2500 - thought you might be interested to know that it was bought by a buyer in Italy after the auction. The purchaser bought it only to trade for an original 8800 which he has done. It will be interesting to see what happens with these 680's currently up for auction. It appears that the eBay bidders are not very aware of the scarcity of the 680 and are consumed by the hype surrounding the 8800. Bob Wood ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 8 months

2
1
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UNIVAC memory screens web site.

by kstumpf＠unusual.on.ca

There is a cute web site (www.netw.com/~drfcline then click on memory screens) that refer to core memory planes as "memory screens". Perhaps the word "screens" was used to describe core planes, but I've never seen it used that way before. Anyway there might be a few of us who have not visited this site and so now we can. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------- Kevin Stumpf * Unusual systems +1.519.744.2900 * EST/EDT GMT - 5 Collector - Commercial Mainframes & Minicomputers from the 50s, 60s, & 70s and control panels and consoles. Author & Publisher - A Guide to Collecting Computers & Computer Collectibles * ISBN 0-9684244-0-6 .

27 years, 8 months

3
2
0 0

Fairchild Channel F

by foxnhare＠goldrush.com

> From: Doug Spence <ds_spenc(a)alcor.concordia.ca> > Subject: Fairchild Channel F (was: Re: Corrections to trivia) > > On 6 Oct 1998, Eric Smith wrote: > > > I might, however, get out the old Fairchild Channel F video game system > > tonight and play a few hands of blackjack on an F8. > > Speaking of which... how common are the Channel Fs? I picked up several > cartridges for one some time ago, but I've never seen the actual unit. > I've only seen ads for them in old magazines. > Well I recall they were sold by Montgomery Wards in the U.S. for a couple years also the carts I had once bought had Macy's or some other retail chain's tags on them, so they were well mechandised. But they are somewhat uncommon nowadays. The Atari 2600 beat them out of business though, pitty, the Fairchild had some of the coolest joysticks (controls were left, right, up, down, twist left, twist right, fire (and I think push down)) -- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Larry Anderson - Sysop of Silicon Realms BBS (300-2400bd) (209) 754-1363 Visit my Commodore 8-Bit web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/commodore.html -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-

27 years, 8 months

9
20
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SMD disk analyzer

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>Oy! I' *love* one of those. I have a couple of SMD disks now, and I am >rescuing a couple more Fujistu Eagles from a 750 in Dayton. All of these >are attached to VAXen via SI-9900 Massbus<->SMD adapters. >I'd also love to lay my hands on some 8" or 5.25" SMD driver. Those 14" >monsters are a bear to move and keep fed. Actually, those Eagles you have are 10.5" drives. Earlier Fuji's, like the 2281/82/83/84 series, were 14". (And also had nice transparent HDA covers so you could see the heads seeking across the platters.) Just look in any issue of _Processor_ and you'll find many minicomputer dealers selling 8" SMD drives like the Fuji 2333's and the like. And there's a dealer who posts to the Usenet PDP-11 newsgroups every couple of months with 5.25" Hitachi SMD's for sale. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology Voice: 301-767-5917 7328 Bradley Blvd Fax: 301-767-5927 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817

27 years, 8 months

1
0
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SMD disk analyzer

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>I just picked up a nifty little box at WeirdStuff Warehouse for $26 >(I probably paid too much...). It's a "Wilson Laboratories MWX-1000S >SMD Disk Analyzer", and as far as I can tell seems to be in good >working order. It has numerous diagnostic buttons, a Hex keypad, >and a green LED display on the front, and connectors galore on the >back, along with cables. >Has anyone seen one of these? Are they very useful? At the moment >I don't have any SMD disks, but I don't doubt I'll have some at some >point in the future. >If anyone knows more about this unit, I'd love to hear about it. Wilson Labs advertises heavily in _Processor_ and other minicomputer hardware rags to promote their modern drive systems that replace vintage ones. In particular, they sell the electronics that will make a single modern SCSI drive look like many RK05's, Diablos, Massbus disk, or SMD disk. Thanks to their efforts, hundreds of classic mid-60's IBM and DEC systems are still running at many sites doing important work! The Wilson Labs systems aren't cheap, though :-). -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology Voice: 301-767-5917 7328 Bradley Blvd Fax: 301-767-5927 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817

27 years, 8 months

2
1
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Rescue...

by allisonp＠world.std.com

Contact Joy if your interested in what appears to be a PS2/25 or 30 series machine I have every reason to belive she would prefer pick up. I can't due to problems with my truck and far too little space to store things at the moment. Allison =================================== From: Joy Favretti <joyf(a)neca.com> Subject: Re: Antique Computer Status: R Thanks for posting it Allison. I'm not sure of make. It is an old one which our son gave us in place of an even older IBM. PS/2 sounds right. Otherwise, your guess is better than mine. I have no documentation for it. Joy FavrettiAt 12:48 PM 10/14/98 -0400, you wrote: >< Please let me know if you are interested. I live in Storrs, Connecticu >< which is within your two hour pick-up range. We are on Route 44, just >< off the Mass Pike.

27 years, 8 months

1
0
0 0

Tandy Keyboard

by roblwill＠usaor.net

A 101 keyboard will not work at all. The special 8-pin plug is there for a reason - If you do not have a Tandy 1000 keyboard, then the keboard will not work. -- -Jason (roblwill(a)usaor.net) ICQ#-1730318 > I have a 1000sx buried under a bunch of other stuff and the KB is different. > In the Tandy 1000 FAQ it says: > II.E.2. Can I replace my old 90-key Tandy keyboard with a 101-key > keyboard? > On the EX and HX, no. On other systems, yes, but it won't work exactly > like a standard 101-key keyboard since the Tandy keyboard BIOS is > different. A special 101-key keyboard made for the 1000's must be used. > See section IV.G. (SL and later systems came with a 101-key keyboard, > and a compatible BIOS.) > > > THROWING the 1000's away?? You ought to b4e ashamed. <g> > > > Landfill for the 90s. Reminds me of all the rusting autoframes scattered across > the country. Can't help but think that coming generations will pay for this > some way. > > ciao larry > lwalker(a)interlog.com

27 years, 8 months

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IBM 5120 at the local thrift store

by roblwill＠usaor.net

The PC/AT was a 5170, not a 5180. -- -Jason (roblwill(a)usaor.net) ICQ#-1730318 > 5168 XT286 > > >5100, IBM Portable > >5110, similar with optional (?) 8" flops > >5120, bigger screen, built-in 8" flops > >5140, Convertible > >5150, PC > >5155, Portable PC > >5160, PC/XT > >5180, PC/AT > > > >Was there a 5130? > > > >-- Doug > > > gene@ehrich > http://www.voicenet.com/~generic > Computer & Video Game Garage Sale

27 years, 8 months

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PROM Burner

by jolminkh＠nsw.bigpond.net.au

I have found an ancient PROM burner, a Data I/O System 19, with a Unipac module fitted. Test stickers on it are dated 1980. It came with an "Operators Synopsis" with which I am totally out of my depth and a wall chart dated 1985 with details of PROMs of the day and which Unipak revision applies to which. ?????????? I had hoped to be able to use it to back up older ROMs which my circa 1995 EPROM programmer can't handle. Is it usable for this? It has a serial type connector but no software (it predates the PC). There is an LED and a hexadecimal keyboard. It looks like it was meant to be used manually !! Typing stuff in character by character. There's nothing on Data I/O's website about this and they haven't replied to my email as yet. Can anyone offer advice? Thanks Hans

27 years, 8 months

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IBM Reuse model numbers?

by gene＠ehrich.com

At 04:15 PM 10/14/98 -0500, you wrote: >On 14 Oct 1998, Eric Smith wrote: > >> Does IBM reuse model numbers? NO gene@ehrich http://www.voicenet.com/~generic Computer & Video Game Garage Sale

27 years, 8 months

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IBM 5120 at the local thrift store

by gene＠ehrich.com

5168 XT286 At 04:15 PM 10/14/98 -0500, you wrote: >On 14 Oct 1998, Eric Smith wrote: > >> Does IBM reuse model numbers? I suppose they must, or four-digit numbers >> would have been exhausted long ago. > >Are you suggesting that IBM has produced over 10,000 different computer >models? I doubt it! > >> The IBM 5120 I'm (only slightly) familiar with is a later version of the >> IBM 5100 portable computer from 1975. > >Does anybody know all the machines that comprised the 51xx series? The >few I know are: > >5100, IBM Portable >5110, similar with optional (?) 8" flops >5120, bigger screen, built-in 8" flops >5140, Convertible >5150, PC >5155, Portable PC >5160, PC/XT >5180, PC/AT > >Was there a 5130? > >-- Doug > gene@ehrich http://www.voicenet.com/~generic Computer & Video Game Garage Sale

27 years, 8 months

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Tandy Keyboard

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Are these PC clones? I have seen a tandy (1000, I think) that had a microphone port. Why was this? I have also seen a tandy which was sort of like a C64 except it had a 3.5" disk drive. I'm _certain_ it was a tandy. > >We've been throwing out all our Tandy stuff at school. I've seen TLs, >TXs, SXs and even an HL. But I don't remember an RL. Will the others >work? > >Eileen > > > >> >>Greetings >> >>I was given a Tandy 1000RL, I need a old Tandy keyboard as nothing else >will >>work with this machine. Anybody have one laying around // >> >> >>Gary >> >> > > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 8 months

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mucho Vintage on eBay

by franke＠sbs.de

Nice Addition: True rare Vintage stuff: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=35930019 Gruss H. (And for Salam: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=34818513) -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

27 years, 8 months

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mucho Altairs on eBay

by franke＠sbs.de

> Looks like the Albuqurque Altairs are coming > out of the woodwork. There is now a 680 and > a 680b to go with the 8800bt. > If anyone was monitoring the auction of the > 680 a couple of weeks ago which did not meet the reserve > price of $2500 - thought you might be interested > to know that it was bought by a buyer in Italy > after the auction. The purchaser bought it only > to trade for an original 8800 which he has done. > It will be interesting to see what happens with > these 680's currently up for auction. It appears > that the eBay bidders are not very aware of the > scarcity of the 680 and are consumed by the hype > surrounding the 8800. The 680's are nice, but the 1500 minbid limit on each is way to high. I did send the seller a mail with an reasonable bid - so maybe they end up in Germany :) Gruss H. (My wrath to anyone giving a higher bid :) -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

27 years, 8 months

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Joined Messages

by jolminkh＠nsw.bigpond.net.au

I am finding an unusual number of inappropriately joined messages. A Listserv problem? Does anyone know how to get this fixed?

27 years, 8 months

2
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Tandys gone/Apples anyone?

by backofene＠hotmail.com

We're located in northern VA, 7 miles from DC. The challenge is to get the old stuff in the hands of those who want it so it doesn't wind up in landfills. We used to have "yard sales" to clear out the old stuff, but I got tired of answering questions/complaints months later from people who bought an entire system for $10, so eventually we just set the stuff out and let any interested people take it away. With our student population increasing, we're using every available space as classrooms. Write me at backofene(a)hotmail.com if you want to help us "take out the trash". Eileen > >> I checked the storeroom at school today to discover that all the old >> Tandy equipment (which had collected dust there for 2 years) has been >> disposed of. Not even a keyboard left. All I could find is an >> assortment of Apple II GSes, drives, Imagewriters etc & a few old Mac >> LCs. > >Where was this at? I wouldn't mind getting a IIgs setup but don't want to >pay a lot of shipping since I can probably find them locally eventually. > > >-- > _______ KB7PWD @ KC7Y.AZ.US.NOAM ecloud(a)goodnet.com > (_ | |_) Shawn T. Rutledge on the web: http://www.goodnet.com/~ecloud > __) | | \__________________________________________________________________ >* Java * card-carrying member of the procrastinati * ham radio * Linux * > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 8 months

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SMD disk analyzer

by sethm＠loomcom.com

A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 747 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19981015/47131592/at…

27 years, 8 months

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Dutch museum needs Kennedy 9300 docs.

by museum＠techniche.com

I've got the service manual that I used to use when I supported them. I still have a couple of drives though so I don't want to lose it. I could make a copy given enough time (it must be ~200 pages). I was planning to do that at some point since there's someone else on the list that I promised a copy to (I'll have to dig up that message to find out who). Do they have an urgent need or are they just trying to prepare for when they need it? Jon > >A computer museum in The Netherlands is looking for the documentation for >a Kennedy 9300 tape drive. I'm sure someone on this list has that. > >http://www.wins.uva.nl/faculteit/museum/wanted.html > >Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Ever onward. > > Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 > See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! > [Last web site update: 09/21/98] > >

27 years, 8 months

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Dutch museum needs Kennedy 9300 docs.

by museum＠techniche.com

Opps, I missed that URL. It's late (early?) and I thought it was part of your digital signature. I'll follow up on it myself....... > >A computer museum in The Netherlands is looking for the documentation for >a Kennedy 9300 tape drive. I'm sure someone on this list has that. > >http://www.wins.uva.nl/faculteit/museum/wanted.html > >Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Ever onward. > > Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 > See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! > [Last web site update: 09/21/98] > >

27 years, 8 months

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WANG

by franke＠sbs.de

Now a question for the real wiered stuff: Does anybody know a Wang-71 ? I just know the name - I'm right now on a trace of a specific Russian computer, and they told me that this machine is a Wang-71 clone, but I can't find any information about this machine. No, I have no pictures of the Russian machine and no further data. The clone is build 1975, so the original design might me a bit earlyer. Gruss H. P.S.: has anyone a list of PDP-clones ? I want to classify some finds. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

27 years, 8 months

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Franklin Ace 2100

by fauradon＠pclink.com

I am not familiar enough with both machines to make a judjement on which one is better but the franklin display some features that seem interesting: apple dos 3.3 compatibility, floating point basic, apparently could run CP/M or Pascal (OS?)(not much info on that), programmable function keysimpressive display capabilities (16 colors at 560 x 192), built in parallel and serial interfaces and memory expandable up to 576K. Compare that to the Apple IIe or IIc. The memory extension and RGB interface cards are optional (128K and 80 column color?) It's hard to tell what the exact caracteristics are the users manual keep refering to the technical manual that I don't have. Francois ------------------------------------------------------------- Visit the desperately in need of update Sanctuary at: http://www.pclink.com/fauradon -----Original Message----- From: Max Eskin <maxeskin(a)hotmail.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Thursday, October 15, 1998 2:43 PM Subject: Re: Franklin Ace 2100 > > > > >Better means any feature that would bias one towards one computer >versus another. Did it include a z80, by any chance? On the back >of this machine, there were some slot covers; did it take standard >apple cards? >> >>I haven't tasted them yet ;) >> >> >>I don't really know yet. I would believe that they added some features >but >>how would you define "better", more reliable, faster, bigger software >>library? >>All I can do is look at the specs and compare the two. >> >>Francois >>------------------------------------------------------------- >>Visit the desperately in need of update >>Sanctuary at: http://www.pclink.com/fauradon >> >> > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com >

27 years, 8 months

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PROM Burner

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< I have a couple of 29s for sale, several plugs and a copy of the manual. < anyone is interested. < Paxton What kind of price is attached to one? Allison

27 years, 8 months

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Dutch museum needs Kennedy 9300 docs.

by dastar＠ncal.verio.com

A computer museum in The Netherlands is looking for the documentation for a Kennedy 9300 tape drive. I'm sure someone on this list has that. http://www.wins.uva.nl/faculteit/museum/wanted.html Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 09/21/98]

27 years, 8 months

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Partitioning a HD with RT-11 V5.3

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>I realized something, even if I do get this working, I'm going to need to >partition one of the ESDI hard drives since they are to big for RT-11, >according to the WQESD controllers documentation the partitions need to be >30Mb or smaller. My smallest ESDI drive is 150Mb. >How do I go about partitioning the drives? Unfortunatly my Doc set is for >V3, so I can't RTFM on this one. Since you've got a WQESD, you've got two choices with respect to partitioning: 1: Hardware partitioning. Partition your 150 Mbyte drive into multiple 65536-blocks drive through the WQESD firmware. You don't need to do a reformat from scratch; just redefine the disk structure and write it to disk. 2: Software partitioning. Partition from RT-11. Assuming your drive is at LUN 0, you already have the default mappings SET DU0:UNIT=0 and SET DU0:PART=0. The "UNIT" refers to the MSCP LUN of the drive, and the PART refers to the software partition number. Map DU1: to be the second logical partition on the first MSCP LUN with SET DU1:UNIT=0 followed by SET DU1:PART=1. Continue on up until you've used up all the disk. Each PART refers to a logical partition on disk, each of which is 65536 blocks long (except for the last one, which is whatever is left over.) Of course, only the first 65535 blocks of each partition are directly usable, given RT-11's block numbering scheme. SHOW DEV:DU will show you the current partitioning. Keep in mind that if DU is your system disk, you'll have to do a reboot to reload the driver with the "new" partition settings before they'll go into effect. (You wouldn't believe the number of RT-11 5.7 field test sites who complained "partitioning doesn't work" when they simply failed to reboot after the SET DU's! This has been in the manuals for over a decade!) After rebooting, INIT DU1:, etc., and away you go! Since you *do* have the WQESD, I heavily recommend that you do your partitioning at the WQESD level and not at the RT-11 level. This way all your partitions will be hardware bootable. If you do the partitioning through RT-11, the resulting logical partitions won't be hardware bootable. A neat tool (hey, I wrote it, I think it's neat) for looking at MSCP- level stuff under RT-11 is the DUSTAT program, available from ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/rt/dusta… Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology Voice: 301-767-5917 7328 Bradley Blvd Fax: 301-767-5927 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817

27 years, 8 months

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Partitioning a HD with RT-11 V5.3

by mbg＠world.std.com

>I realized something, even if I do get this working, I'm going to need to >partition one of the ESDI hard drives since they are to big for RT-11, >according to the WQESD controllers documentation the partitions need to >be 30Mb or smaller. My smallest ESDI drive is 150Mb. By default, if your disk is larger than 65535 blocks, the physical unit numbers for the DU device map to partition zero (0-65534) of the selected physical unit. If you want to map another unit of the DU handler to another partition, you issue the command: SET DUn UNIT=m part=p where 'n' is the RT-11 unit number, 'm' is the physical unit number in your MSCP configuration, and 'p' is the partition number (starting at zero). For example, say I have an RQDX3 with an RD54 (169mb) and an RX50 (dual drive): DU0 = Partition zero (0-65534) on phys unit 0 (rd54) DU1 = First of the RX50 drives DU2 = Second of the RX50 drives If I want address more of the RD54, I can do the following: DU0 = Partition zero (0-65534) on phys unit 0 (rd54) DU1 = First of the RX50 drives DU2 = Second of the RX50 drives DU3 = unassigned DU4 = Partition one on phys unit 0 (set du4 unit=0 part=1) DU5 = Partition two on phys unit 0 (set du5 unit=0 part=2) DU6 = Partition three on phys unit 0 (set du6 unit=0 part=3) DU7 = Partition four on phys unit 0 (set du7 unit=0 part=4) This is, in fact, how many partitions you would get on an RD54. All of the partitions except the last one will be full 65535 block units. The last one is about 7k blocks. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer p.s. I forgot... after doing all these SET commands, you'll have to reboot for them to take affect. +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

27 years, 8 months

1
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Tandys gone/Apples anyone?

by backofene＠hotmail.com

I checked the storeroom at school today to discover that all the old Tandy equipment (which had collected dust there for 2 years) has been disposed of. Not even a keyboard left. All I could find is an assortment of Apple II GSes, drives, Imagewriters etc & a few old Mac LCs. Sorry, I remember those old Tandys - 2 labs worth. (used 86-96). They even had an Apple Emulation card (Trackstar) since at that time no one in education could imagine using anything besides an Apple. Eileen ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 8 months

3
2
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mucho Altairs on eBay

by altair8800＠hotmail.com

Looks like the Albuqurque Altairs are coming out of the woodwork. There is now a 680 and a 680b to go with the 8800bt. If anyone was monitoring the auction of the 680 a couple of weeks ago which did not meet the reserve price of $2500 - thought you might be interested to know that it was bought by a buyer in Italy after the auction. The purchaser bought it only to trade for an original 8800 which he has done. It will be interesting to see what happens with these 680's currently up for auction. It appears that the eBay bidders are not very aware of the scarcity of the 680 and are consumed by the hype surrounding the 8800. Bob Wood ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 8 months

1
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Partitioning a HD with RT-11 V5.3

by healyzh＠ix.netcom.com

I realized something, even if I do get this working, I'm going to need to partition one of the ESDI hard drives since they are to big for RT-11, according to the WQESD controllers documentation the partitions need to be 30Mb or smaller. My smallest ESDI drive is 150Mb. How do I go about partitioning the drives? Unfortunatly my Doc set is for V3, so I can't RTFM on this one. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ |

27 years, 8 months

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RX50 / RX33 Questions related to PDP-11's

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Oct 14, 18:28, Zane H. Healy wrote: > Subject: RE: RX50 / RX33 Questions related to PDP-11's > >What exactly do your "RX33's" do when you try to access them? > > They flicker briefly just prior to the machine complaining it can't boot. > I'm not sure I had them connected properly. I'll try the method Allison > suggested in a little bit. That sounds suspiciously like what the controller does to "sniff" an RX50. There's a bit of majic between the side select and track zero signals on an RX50, which the controller uses to test that it's a real RX50. > Well, the stickers are pretty hard to read, but if I'm looking at the right > two, they both say > > LMB617 or LM8617 > then one says 21725 or 217E5 > I'm pretty sure the second says 216E5 That's 23-216E5 and 23-217E5, the first version of the RQDX3 code. The second revision is 23-244E5 and 23-245E5, which I think does support RX33s. The 23- means a ROM and the E5 means 16Kbytes (ie a 27128 EPROM). > If these aren't ROMs that support RX33's which ones should I be looking > for, there is a chance one of my other RQDX3's that I've got in my spares > will work. There was a third version, which was a minor bugfix, 23-285E5 and 23-286E5. I'm looking for a copy of those for my archive... -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

27 years, 8 months

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RX50 / RX33 Questions related to PDP-11's

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< I am almost sure you need a cable without the PC-twist. Also, you < probably need to set the drive select jumpers properly (Can somebody tel < us what to?). Remember that the PC-twist not only swaps over 2 of the < drive select lines, it also gives separate motor on signals for the 2 dr The "twist" cable only applies to PC or systems using PC patterned interfaces. It DOES NOT APPLY TO RQDX and distribution boards used in Qbus systems. RQDXn uses a single bussed motor on and drive selection by drive select jumper. If you use a RX33 drive try using only one for starters, that will lower the sillyness factor. If you media is RX50... why not use an RX50. If all else fails and your configuring a second system move the controller that works over to the target or move the target controller to the running system as a second drive/unit. Allison

27 years, 8 months

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RX50 / RX33 Questions related to PDP-11's

by dburrows＠netpath.net

RX33's use a straight cable without the PC twist. I have several here but use only one at a time on my test beds. I have several from various pieces of DEC equipment and they all use the drive select jumpers with a straight cable. Dan Burrows dburrows(a)netpath.net -----Original Message----- From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Thursday, October 15, 1998 5:58 PM Subject: Re: RX50 / RX33 Questions related to PDP-11's > > >What exactly do your "RX33's" do when you try to access them? > > They flicker briefly just prior to the machine complaining it can't boot. > I'm not sure I had them connected properly. I'll try the method Allison > suggested in a little bit. Do the drive spindle motors ever run? You can't read data from a disk that's not spinning. I am almost sure you need a cable without the PC-twist. Also, you probably need to set the drive select jumpers properly (Can somebody tell us what to?). Remember that the PC-twist not only swaps over 2 of the drive select lines, it also gives separate motor on signals for the 2 drives. -tony

27 years, 8 months

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SWTP 6800 on Haggle

by paulk＠microsoft.com

There's a working SWTP 6800 machine on Haggle Online, complete with a doc set. Of course, since it's an Internet auction, he wants $1000 for it, but just in case someone's interested. http://www.haggle.com/cgi/getitem.cgi?id=201793143 Paul Kearns paulk(a)microsoft.com

27 years, 8 months

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RX50 / RX33 Questions related to PDP-11's

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>I am almost sure you need a cable without the PC-twist. Absolutely correct. > Also, you >probably need to set the drive select jumpers properly (Can somebody tell >us what to?). There's absolutely no need to guess on this subject - Terry Kennedy has collected a great amount of wisdom and experience on this subject in THIRD-PARTY-DISKS.TXT, a compendium of DECUServe conferences, available by anonymous ftp from ftp.spc.edu. The answer for the drive select jumpers is easy: first drive at DS0, second at DS1. The jumpers selecting motor speed control are a bit more complicated; Terry's collection of data covers several popular Teac drives, and if the answer isn't there browsing through the Teac jumper setting recommendations will quickly give the answer for any specific drive they've sold. Teac's faxback service is at +1 213 727 7629, and is a valuable source of technical data regarding the various drives and options they've produced (and still produce.) Tim.

27 years, 8 months

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CNET Story (fwd)

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Is that a separate cable channel, or what (specify)? > > >The CNET producer who did the coverage of VCF 2.0 has sent me the >following: > >The piece on the festival is going to air this weekend on CNET Central. >Check out http://cnet.tv.com for airtimes... > >Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)verio.com >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0! > See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details > [Last web page update: 09/28/98] > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 8 months

2
1
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PROM Burner

by Innfogra＠aol.com

I have a couple of 29s for sale, several plugs and a copy of the manual. if anyone is interested. Paxton

27 years, 8 months

1
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RL02 slides & brackets

by wanderer＠bos.nl

Hello All, Who can help me with a pair of RL01/RL02 slides and the 4 brackets? I want to mount my 3rd RL unit in the cabinet but don't have a 3rd pair of them. A payment can be discussed. Thanks, Ed -- The Wanderer | Geloof nooit een politicus! wanderer(a)bos.nl | Europarlementariers: http://www.bos.nl/homes/wanderer | zakkenvullers en dumpplaats voor Unix Lives! windows95 is rommel! | mislukte politici. '96 GSXR 1100R | See http://www.bos.nl/homes/wanderer/gates.html for a funny pic. of Gates!

27 years, 8 months

1
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CNET Story (fwd)

by siconic＠jasmine.psyber.com

The CNET producer who did the coverage of VCF 2.0 has sent me the following: The piece on the festival is going to air this weekend on CNET Central. Check out http://cnet.tv.com for airtimes... Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)verio.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0! See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details [Last web page update: 09/28/98]

27 years, 8 months

4
4
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Franklin Ace 2100

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Better means any feature that would bias one towards one computer versus another. Did it include a z80, by any chance? On the back of this machine, there were some slot covers; did it take standard apple cards? > >I haven't tasted them yet ;) > > >I don't really know yet. I would believe that they added some features but >how would you define "better", more reliable, faster, bigger software >library? >All I can do is look at the specs and compare the two. > >Francois >------------------------------------------------------------- >Visit the desperately in need of update >Sanctuary at: http://www.pclink.com/fauradon > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 8 months

2
1
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Tandy Keyboard

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

amazing amount of information on the Tandy site! They should be proud of themselves, considering someone was actually paid for typing this stuff up! > >Lawrence Walker wrote: > >> On 14 Oct 98 at 18:49, Max Eskin wrote: >> >> > Are these PC clones? I have seen a tandy (1000, I think) that had a >> > microphone port. Why was this? I have also seen a tandy which was >> > sort of like a C64 except it had a 3.5" disk drive. I'm _certain_ it >> > was a tandy. >> > >> They did run Dos and supposedly Gates wrote the OS for them. They were >> very similiar to the PC jr. and had a better resolution on the Tandy monitors >> than CGA. Can't remember the mike port but I seem to remember they did have >> a superior sound chip. TRS had a proprietory GUI (of sorts) called Deskmate >> that came with the sytem. The C64 type was likely a CoCo of which Murch is >> the resident expert. I believe he moderates the CoCo m-l .The CoCo 2 and 3 have >> an OS available called OS-9 which is IIRC quite impressive. > >The HX and EX were the 1000 versions that were low profile and were DOS, not OS/9 >machines. The HX had the 3.5" 720k floppy drive(s) in front and the EX had a 5.25" >360k drive on the right side. Both used a proprietary card slot known as a Plus >expansion and the cards (serial, hard disk and memory) are getting very hard to >come by anymore. > >Tandy has all the specs on the 1000 models on text files at >http://support.tandy.com/ > >Jason is correct on the keyboard plugs too. Later models went to a common keyboard, >older ones used a Tandy specific with a Tandy 1000 sticker on the back. The 2000 >used a similar looking keyboard but wired differently and had a 2000 label on the >back of it. > >THROWING the 1000's away?? You ought to b4e ashamed. <g> > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 8 months

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RL02 slides & brackets

by dburrows＠netpath.net

I have several here and you are welcome to a set for the shipping Plus a couple $ for boxing materials. Dan Burrows 336-376-0468 dburrows(a)netpath.net -----Original Message----- From: wanderer <wanderer(a)bos.nl> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Thursday, October 15, 1998 2:35 PM Subject: RL02 slides & brackets Hello All, Who can help me with a pair of RL01/RL02 slides and the 4 brackets? I want to mount my 3rd RL unit in the cabinet but don't have a 3rd pair of them. A payment can be discussed. Thanks, Ed -- The Wanderer | Geloof nooit een politicus! wanderer(a)bos.nl | Europarlementariers: http://www.bos.nl/homes/wanderer | zakkenvullers en dumpplaats voor Unix Lives! windows95 is rommel! | mislukte politici. '96 GSXR 1100R | See http://www.bos.nl/homes/wanderer/gates.html for a funny pic. of Gates!

27 years, 8 months

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Lisa software available

by Marion.Bates＠Dartmouth.EDU

IP changed. New address: 129.170.86.186 Lisa Office System software and LisaTest (ftp), and information (http). -- MB

27 years, 8 months

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A Commodore 'pre-computer'

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>Ok, so it may not fit the 'computer' part of the charter, but it sure fits >the 'more than 10 years old' part... (and its borderline cute) >Just picked up a Commodore desk adding machine. I certainly think that any electronic computing machine is appropriate here. Three of my prized items in my collection: HP9100B desktop calculator HP9835 desktop calculator/BASIC computer Monroe/Litton 1101B desktop/deskside programmable calculator. Tim.

27 years, 8 months

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RX50 / RX33 Questions related to PDP-11's

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>I'm using the RQDX3 controller as the floppy controller and the WQESD >(ESDI) controller as the boot device. When I tell the system to boot from >DUB0 or DUB1 which is the terminalogy that the WQESD controller expects >(figuring that out, i.e. reading the manual took longer than I want to >admit) with a RX50 attached, it will access the floppy drives, this is best >evidenced by my using a cleaning floppy in the drive (made it easy to hear >the drive being accessed). >When I try using a pair of Teac floppies I've converted to RX33's using >information I found on Sunsite I'm not really sure it tries to access them. Keep in mind that early RQDX3 revisions don't know how to talk to RX33's - they're limited to RX50 floppies. Seeing as how your system is apparently doing bizarre things with the RX33's, this might be the case. What exactly do your "RX33's" do when you try to access them? What firmware revision is your RQDX3? > Can you use RX50 floppies to boot a > system with RX33 drives? Yes. >Will RT-11 boot off of a floppy drive at CSR 17760334? I've tried with >both the Boot disk from my RX50 distribution set, and a RX50 boot disk that >I made using PUTR. I've a sinking feeling that having two disk controllers >is confusing RT-11. To get RT-11 to deal with two DU controllers, you can either: 1. Do a SYSGEN to create a DU handler that can handle more than one DU controller. With recent enough RT-11's, the same handler copes very nicely with multi-port booting. 2. COPY DU[X].SYS to another name (say, DG[X].SYS), and then SET DG:CSR=nnnnnn and SET DG:VECTOR=nnn, where nnnnnn is the CSR and nnn is an unused vector in your system. When you create a bootable floppy which you want to be bootable on your second controller, you must lay down the DG bootstrap instead of DU, since the DU device points to the wrong controller. The tradeoffs between the above two methods are documented in the RT-11 _System Generation Guide_ and the RT-11 _Device Handlers Manual_. Method #2 above is easily the quickest, and will probably do just fine for your purposes. (Though a RT-11 system with extended-unit multiport DU handler is a beautiful sight!) >Is it possible to create a Bootable TK50 with RT-11 that can be used to do >the install? Look for the file MUB.COM on your distribution: ! COPYRIGHT 1989, 1990 BY DIGITAL EQUIPMENT CORPORATION ! ALL RIGHTS RESERVED ! ! MUB.COM command file used to build binary kits Again, it will depend on which version of RT-11 you're running whether MUB.COM is MU-bootability is present. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology Voice: 301-767-5917 7328 Bradley Blvd Fax: 301-767-5927 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817

27 years, 8 months

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RX50 / RX33 Questions related to PDP-11's

by IVIE＠cc.usu.edu

> DU device became available with RT V5.0. It supported RQDX1. I > think that RQDX2 was supported with V5.1 (though it may have been > latently supported with V5.0). I had to trade back some RQDX2s for RQDX1s on some PDP-11/73s I delivered to the gummint because RT-11 didn't support them. I don't recall which version we were using; it would have been at least 5.0. I remember grumbling about how fancy (read "bloated") RT-11 was getting, but I don't recall doing _that_ until 5.2; I thought it happened during the 11/73 incident, though. I also don't remember why I thought 5.2 was bloated (it may have been the UCL/UCF stuff, which I thought was unnecessary), but I did stash away a 5.0 distribution kit as a hedge against bloatation. Roger Ivie ivie(a)cc.usu.edu

27 years, 8 months

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RX50 / RX33 Questions related to PDP-11's

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

> I had to trade back some RQDX2s for RQDX1s on some PDP-11/73s I delivered > to the gummint because RT-11 didn't support them. I don't recall which > version we were using; it would have been at least 5.0. I remember > grumbling about how fancy (read "bloated") RT-11 was getting, but I don't > recall doing _that_ until 5.2; I thought it happened during the 11/73 > incident, though. I also don't remember why I thought 5.2 was bloated > (it may have been the UCL/UCF stuff, which I thought was unnecessary), Yes, the UCL stuff is unnecessary, which is why if you don't want it you simply answer SYSGEN question 100 with "NO": 100. Do you want the user command linkage (Y)? $ USER COMMAND LINKAGE OPTION: The user command linkage allows you to define your own commands which can be issued in a format similar to the standard DCL commands. 100. Do you want the user command linkage (Y)? NO > but I did stash away a 5.0 distribution kit as a hedge against bloatation. An even better hedge against bloatation is to get RT-11 5.6 or later and learn how to use SET RUN VBGEXE. No matter how big the monitors and drivers grow, by appropriately setting a .SAV image's VBGEXE bits you can give it access to "all" 56kbytes of virtual memory space. If you want direct access to I/O space, you can turn that on too, or you can also elect to have 64kbytes of virtual memory space available to your process if you don't need direct access to I/O space. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology Voice: 301-767-5917 7328 Bradley Blvd Fax: 301-767-5927 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817

27 years, 8 months

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old CDS modem

by lfb107＠psu.edu

Found an old modem that I forgot I owned and was just wondering a few things. First, it's a Concord Data Systems 224 ARQ/Autodial that I now remember was in tow by a 3B2 I picked up a while ago. Anyway, it's rather heavy (humongous hat sink on back) so i opened it up and began to think that the innards seemed a bit complicated for a 'modem.' OK, I'll admit it, I was 11 years old when these things would have been in use, but I have other modems from the peiod ('85-'86) that aren't nearly as complex. It's about the size of a large book and has three levels of circuit boards with a Z80 CPU, an SIO chip, and memory chips (one says "zeropower (tm) ram" on it and "DO NOT DISPOSE OF IN FIRE!!!!") on one level, Intel 8031 series chips on another and who knows what on the bottom (haven't taken it all apart yet). Not to mention the 32 dip switches (all off) and the 23 led's on the front. To make a long story short, what did/does this thing do that a regular modem of the time didn't do? Thanks, les

27 years, 8 months

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PROM Burner

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< I had hoped to be able to use it to back up older ROMs which my circa 19 < EPROM programmer can't handle. Is it usable for this? It is the programmer of the era and with the right adaptors will program most anything including some faily current devices. The data io model 22 was faily close but newer and info on that will help with the serial port operation. < It has a serial type connector but no software (it predates the PC). The < is an LED and a hexadecimal keyboard. It looks like it was meant to be u < manually !! Typing stuff in character by character. The serial port acan be used that way but with the right terminal program and intel hex or Moto hex files you could up/download prom data. Allison

27 years, 8 months

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Franklin Ace 2100

by fauradon＠pclink.com

>Is there any way in which they are better than Apple //e? I know the >Laser 128 has some specific improvements. I haven't tasted them yet ;) I don't really know yet. I would believe that they added some features but how would you define "better", more reliable, faster, bigger software library? All I can do is look at the specs and compare the two. Francois ------------------------------------------------------------- Visit the desperately in need of update Sanctuary at: http://www.pclink.com/fauradon

27 years, 8 months

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A Commodore 'pre-computer'

by jimw＠agora.rdrop.com

Ok, so it may not fit the 'computer' part of the charter, but it sure fits the 'more than 10 years old' part... (and its borderline cute) Just picked up a Commodore desk adding machine. Its clean, fully functional (all 3 functions... ummm... 3? maybe 2.5 since 'multiply' is manually assisted), brightly colored Commodore tag and icon on the front. I'll be adding a picture on my web pages of it along with my next set of updates, and (hopefully) my pictures from VCF II. (RSN) -jim --- jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174

27 years, 8 months

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MITS Altair 8800BT Computer (RARE!!!)

by altair8800＠hotmail.com

The same seller has listed Altair toggle switches with a $10 minimum bid. Jim, do those appear to be exactly like the switches you sell? Or do they differ from your's? Here is the link to the auction with the photo... http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=35724070 Bob Wood ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 8 months

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Tandy Keyboard

by roblwill＠usaor.net

Yep. They're PC/XT clones. The Tandy 1000TL's had the microphone port. They had a built-in "Tandy Sound Chip". It put out better sound (in Tandy 1000-supported games) that the standard PC-speaker setting. Haven't gotten the mic to work yet, though. I wish I could find a driver that would run the chip through Windows... I have seen the type that looks like a C64 (can't remember if it was a 1000 or not. They did make the CoCo series, but they didn't have the disk drives. If anyone has one of the 1000's (?) with the built-in drive (and keyboard), and you want to sell it, send me an email, because I'm probably interested. -- -Jason (roblwill(a)usaor.net) ICQ#-1730318 ---------- > From: Max Eskin <maxeskin(a)hotmail.com> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Re: Tandy Keyboard > Date: Wednesday, October 14, 1998 9:49 PM > > Are these PC clones? I have seen a tandy (1000, I think) that had a > microphone port. Why was this? I have also seen a tandy which was > sort of like a C64 except it had a 3.5" disk drive. I'm _certain_ it > was a tandy. >

27 years, 8 months

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Tandy Keyboard

by roblwill＠usaor.net

If the plug on the RL has a DIN plug with (8?) pins (one in center), then the keyboard from the SX or TX will work. If it's a standard 5-pin DIN, then just use an XT keyboard. -- -Jason (roblwill(a)usaor.net) ICQ#-1730318 ---------- > From: Eileen Backofen <backofene(a)hotmail.com> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Re: Tandy Keyboard > Date: Wednesday, October 14, 1998 8:56 PM > > We've been throwing out all our Tandy stuff at school. I've seen TLs, > TXs, SXs and even an HL. But I don't remember an RL. Will the others > work? > > Eileen > > > > > > >Greetings > > > >I was given a Tandy 1000RL, I need a old Tandy keyboard as nothing else > will > >work with this machine. Anybody have one laying around // > > > > > >Gary > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 8 months

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Franklin Ace 2100

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Is there any way in which they are better than Apple //e? I know the Laser 128 has some specific improvements. >They are Apple IIe and IIc compatibles with 128K RAM,80 Column video, Double >High Resolution Display (560 x 192) of the IIc. >They use the 65SC02. >The diskettes drives are 40 track and 35 track compatible >The ACE 2000 has no disk drive, the 2100 has one and the 2200 has two (my >2100 has two, must be an upgrade) >I think my 2100 also has the etended memory card that brings it up to 384K. > >Francois >------------------------------------------------------------- >Visit the desperately in need of update >Sanctuary at: http://www.pclink.com/fauradon > > >> >>Does anyone know about this thing? It's a black machine, looks like >>a PC clone. I gather this is an Apple ][-compatible? >> >>______________________________________________________ >>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com >> > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 8 months

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RX50 / RX33 Questions related to PDP-11's

by mbg＠world.std.com

>When I try using a pair of Teac floppies I've converted to RX33's using >information I found on Sunsite I'm not really sure it tries to access >them. How do you cable RX33's? I set them to Drive 0 and 1, as the docs >said, and then used a Y-splitter for the power with a standard PC floppy >cable (do I need one without the twist?). Can you use RX50 floppies to >boot a system with RX33 drives? Yes. In fact, the RT-11 distribution on 5.25" floppies is RX50 compatible, which also works on RX33. If the disk is formatted by an RX33, then it will only work on an RX33, though (at least when using the RT-11 FORMAT command). >Will RT-11 boot off of a floppy drive at CSR 17760334? I've tried with >both the Boot disk from my RX50 distribution set, and a RX50 boot disk >that I made using PUTR. I've a sinking feeling that having two disk >controllers is confusing RT-11. Since you're using the distribution kit, the answer is no. The address which the distribution handler (a single-port handler) expects is the primary address, 17772150. Even if you were able to get the boot code to read the boot block into memory, the first time the driver gets control, it will try the default primary address and fail. >Is it possible to create a Bootable TK50 with RT-11 that can be used to >do the install? Even when I worked in the RT development group, I avoided the attempt at making bootable magtapes... But the answer is, yes... you could make a bootable magtape (TK50). But you need to boot an RT system to do so, so we're back to a chicken and egg problem... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

27 years, 8 months

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RX50 / RX33 Questions related to PDP-11's

by mbg＠world.std.com

>To get RT-11 to deal with two DU controllers, you can either: > >2. COPY DU[X].SYS to another name (say, DG[X].SYS), and then SET > DG:CSR=nnnnnn and SET DG:VECTOR=nnn, where nnnnnn is the CSR and nnn > is an unused vector in your system. When you create a bootable > floppy which you want to be bootable on your second controller, you > must lay down the DG bootstrap instead of DU, since the DU device > points to the wrong controller. The problem with this technique is that the handler name is built into the driver, which is used by XM to locate the extended memory region used to store data (and other code), and the two handlers would still have the same name. You would need to SIPP the new handler and search for all references to the name 'DU' (search for ;rDU) to 'DG' (;rDG). Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

27 years, 8 months

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RX50 / RX33 Questions related to PDP-11's

by healyzh＠ix.netcom.com

OK, I've got some more questions. It seems I've finally got the PDP-11/73 I'm working on to talk to the floppy drives. BUT, it won't boot my RT-11 RX-50 floppies. I'm using the RQDX3 controller as the floppy controller and the WQESD (ESDI) controller as the boot device. When I tell the system to boot from DUB0 or DUB1 which is the terminalogy that the WQESD controller expects (figuring that out, i.e. reading the manual took longer than I want to admit) with a RX50 attached, it will access the floppy drives, this is best evidenced by my using a cleaning floppy in the drive (made it easy to hear the drive being accessed). When I try using a pair of Teac floppies I've converted to RX33's using information I found on Sunsite I'm not really sure it tries to access them. How do you cable RX33's? I set them to Drive 0 and 1, as the docs said, and then used a Y-splitter for the power with a standard PC floppy cable (do I need one without the twist?). Can you use RX50 floppies to boot a system with RX33 drives? Will RT-11 boot off of a floppy drive at CSR 17760334? I've tried with both the Boot disk from my RX50 distribution set, and a RX50 boot disk that I made using PUTR. I've a sinking feeling that having two disk controllers is confusing RT-11. Is it possible to create a Bootable TK50 with RT-11 that can be used to do the install? Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ |

27 years, 8 months

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Tandy Keyboard

by backofene＠hotmail.com

We've been throwing out all our Tandy stuff at school. I've seen TLs, TXs, SXs and even an HL. But I don't remember an RL. Will the others work? Eileen > >Greetings > >I was given a Tandy 1000RL, I need a old Tandy keyboard as nothing else will >work with this machine. Anybody have one laying around // > > >Gary > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 8 months

1
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Franklin Ace 2100

by fauradon＠pclink.com

They are Apple IIe and IIc compatibles with 128K RAM,80 Column video, Double High Resolution Display (560 x 192) of the IIc. They use the 65SC02. The diskettes drives are 40 track and 35 track compatible The ACE 2000 has no disk drive, the 2100 has one and the 2200 has two (my 2100 has two, must be an upgrade) I think my 2100 also has the etended memory card that brings it up to 384K. Francois ------------------------------------------------------------- Visit the desperately in need of update Sanctuary at: http://www.pclink.com/fauradon > >Does anyone know about this thing? It's a black machine, looks like >a PC clone. I gather this is an Apple ][-compatible? > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com >

27 years, 8 months

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RX50 / RX33 Questions related to PDP-11's

by mbg＠world.std.com

allisonp(a)world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Wrote: >17772150 it the default first device and the default bootable. If there >is two the second will be at 17760334. For RQDXs the LUN jumper must >corospond to how many units. Right... but default secondary device for a DU handler is 17772144. (The reason for this is because back when the driver was developed, someone decided that since the vector was programmable, and the default was at 154, and nothing was at 150, that subsequent vectors would decrease by 4. This was then extended to the CSR... It wasn't until later that we found that the default secondary CSR was to be at 17760334. It never got changed. I think it is still that way for the to-be-released V5.7) >I believe PDP-11 ROM BOOT expects to boot from the default first (*2150) >unless the DU.sys driver has been changed for the second address. RT-11 >itself will boot/run on anything you have a driver for. Megan would >know for sure. I've never found it necessary to have two MSCP disk >controllers in a PDP-11 (I was using them in the vax instead!). So long as the address/vector match what is set in the device handler, it should boot. (I have a system at home with three, and at times four, MSCP adapters for various disk types -- MSCP, SCSI, ESDI, DSSI) Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

27 years, 8 months

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IBM 5120 at the local thrift store

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< > Are you suggesting that IBM has produced over 10,000 different compute < > models? I doubt it! < < Maybe not 10,000, but certainly lots. Don't forget that the numbers cove < not only computers, but accessories, ATMs, cash registers, lab equipment < clocks, racks, typewriters, and other stuff. Either ways it's not an issue ans the numbering system is more than 4 digits. For example my 8550-031 (ps/2m50z) being differnt from the 8550-021 (PS/2m50). How else would they differentiate models in a family of products. Allison

27 years, 8 months

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Tandy Keyboard

by k7ox＠pipeline.com

Greetings I was given a Tandy 1000RL, I need a old Tandy keyboard as nothing else will work with this machine. Anybody have one laying around // Gary

27 years, 8 months

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Picture up (RE: Microsci HAVAC)

by roblwill＠usaor.net

I can't check for a model number, because I no longer have the drive. I do remember that it was all black, had a Disk II - type face (with the non-wheel head motor), and that it said "Apple" and had a red apple (not multicolored) on the front. ---------- > From: CLASSICCMP(a)trailing-edge.com > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Re: Picture up (RE: Microsci HAVAC) > Date: Wednesday, October 14, 1998 9:53 AM > > The situation is complicated by the large number of "Disk ][ clones" > that were produced in the early 80's. From personal experience and > advertisements, I'd say there were at least 30 different clones at the > time. Most of them used very different-looking, often half-height, 5.25" > drives, but many used the same drive mechanics as a real Disk ][ and > had case designs almost exactly like a real Disk ]['s. The only real > way to tell in this case whether you're dealing with a clone or not > is to look for an Apple sticker on the box and/or the Apple legend on > the drive's PC board. (While some of the clone makers also stole > Apple's PC board layout, I've never seen any that went so far as to > steal Apple's copyright and part number!) > > Tim.

27 years, 8 months

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Franklin Ace 2100

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Does anyone know about this thing? It's a black machine, looks like a PC clone. I gather this is an Apple ][-compatible? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 8 months

3
2
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HTML

by dcoward＠pressstart.com

Matt Pritchard said: Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 14:41:04 -0500 From: Matt Pritchard To: "'classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu'" Subject: RE: Commodore "PET 2001-8" Vintage Computer Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Am I the only person who can't read messages made up of tons of HTML junk? -Matt Pritchard Graphics Engine and Optimization Specialist MS Age of Empires & Age of Empires ][ > -----Original Message----- > From: Marvin [SMTP:marvin@rain.org] > Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 1998 12:55 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Commodore "PET 2001-8" Vintage Computer > > This message uses a character set that is not supported by the Internet > Service. To view the original message content, open the attached > message. If the text doesn't display correctly, save the attachment to > disk, and then open it using a viewer that can display the original > Yes, it turned the rest of the Digest into a solid block of text. I just gave up on trying to read it. ========================================= Doug Coward Press Start Inc. Sunnyvale,CA =========================================

27 years, 8 months

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Fwd: antique arcade machines

by heavy＠ctesc.net

This doesn't say if they are antique computer arcade machines, but I thought someone might be interested, here. -Jim Weiler >>From owner-auctions(a)web0.netis.com Wed Oct 14 14:13:18 1998 >X-Authentication-Warning: web0.netis.com: majordomo set sender to >owner-auctions(a)maillist.netis.com using -f >From: don_shearer(a)wda.disney.com >Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 10:07:17 -0400 >To: <auctions(a)auctionweb.com> >Subject: antique arcade machines >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Sender: owner-auctions(a)web0.netis.com >Precedence: bulk >Status: U > > We have a small collection (13 items) of antique arcade machines for > disposal. They are in an average condition (some operatable, some > not). Do you know of anyone who may be interested in purchasing these > items? > >. >. >>----------------------------------------------------------------< >> NETIS Auctions On the Web ... Largest and Most Active Auctions < >> and Auctioneers Listing Service on the Internet. < >>----------------------------------------------------------------< >> Join us on the World Wide Web at http://www.auctionweb.com. < >> KEYWORD SEARCH, Worldwide, using http://www.auctionseek.com. < >>----------------------------------------------------------------< >> To subscribe/unsubscribe to/from our auctions mailing list, < >> send mail to majordomo(a)auctionweb.com with "subscribe < >> auctions" or "unsubscribe auctions" (no quotes) in the body < >>----------------------------------------------------------------< > ( } /|> ___( (@} } |> / |\ ____ (@} } / /| / | \ ____ ( } / - - / | / | \ (oo} / - - / | / | \ ___ ( O-------------------- / | / | \ ____ (______} \ - - - /----| /------|_____\ \ - \____|_@|@@@@\___|______\__/ "Poco Sol" |\_____________________/ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ mailto:YaCCCht@hosts.talkcity.com * Jim Weiler * mailto:heavy@ctesc.net http://pages.tstar.net/~heavy/ http://home.talkcity.com/HardDiskDr/yacccht/index.html ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

27 years, 8 months

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comador 128

by TKorotko＠aol.com

I read that you have some that may use old computers. I have 3 of them 1 128 commador and two 64 with about 200 programs and game and a lot of blank disks. hat to just throw out on garbage if you know some one that could use them, trouble is the would have to pick them up at 101 old lanes mill rd. brick nj 08724 7324581582 as I'm 81 and do not drive too much

27 years, 8 months

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Wyse PCs (was Re: auction grabs)

by Innfogra＠aol.com

In a message dated 98-10-13 20:40:07 EDT, you write: << he few ISA cards was a 16-bit double card with a 9 pin external plug labelled Wyse monitor. There's 2 badly mounted Wyse E-Proms. Printed on the bottom of the top board was WY-700 Controller Daughterboard. Wyse Technology (c) 1986. The bottom one has WY-700 PC HI RES MOTHER BOARD. Sounds like your beast. If I should find one of these monitors would it work on a clone with just this card ? T >> Yes if you plug the card in and plug the matching 700 monitor in it will come up. The card emulates EGA & CGA. In its high res mode it is a nice sharp 1200X800 (approx.) monitor. It was supported by many early desktop publishing software packages in it's high res mode. The original card & monitor set predated VGA and was an 8 bit double card. I used one on an XT for several years. SVGA finally killed them off. I think I still have that XT. I know I have two of the monitors in my whse, If I don't sell them beforehand they will be in my Auction in early November. I am retireing from supporting a warehouse so most everthing is selling. This will include lots of older computers, parts, terminals, printers and lots of collectable stuff. Paxton

27 years, 8 months

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Fairchild Channel F units

by fauradon＠pclink.com

For those interested the is a Faichild Channel F faq at http://www.best.com/~cdyer/faqs/fairv2.htm Francois ------------------------------------------------------------- Visit the desperately in need of update Sanctuary at: http://www.pclink.com/fauradon

27 years, 8 months

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Picture up (RE: Microsci HAVAC)

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>> I noticed that ( I looked a 3 Disk II's that my school had, and they all >> had the grooved disc). I don't have the drive anymore (never was able to >> get it to work), but All I really remember is the round cable, the red >> apple (it was unusual), and the Disk II-type black front. If I remember >> correctly, the case was black, too. I don't remember a data cable (at >AH HA! I was just going to suggest that perhaps you had a Bell & Howell >drive and perhaps the internal mechanism on that model was different. I >think Kai has some black Disk ]['s handy that he can perhaps check on for >us. The situation is complicated by the large number of "Disk ][ clones" that were produced in the early 80's. From personal experience and advertisements, I'd say there were at least 30 different clones at the time. Most of them used very different-looking, often half-height, 5.25" drives, but many used the same drive mechanics as a real Disk ][ and had case designs almost exactly like a real Disk ]['s. The only real way to tell in this case whether you're dealing with a clone or not is to look for an Apple sticker on the box and/or the Apple legend on the drive's PC board. (While some of the clone makers also stole Apple's PC board layout, I've never seen any that went so far as to steal Apple's copyright and part number!) Tim.

27 years, 8 months

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RX50 / RX33 Questions related to PDP-11's

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

> At this point, if you don't have >a floppy in the RX50, the DEC BOOT ROMS will hard boot >an alternate CSR for UNIT 0, PARTITION 0. The situation depends greatly on *which* version of the DEC boot ROM's are in use. Some automatically search for an alternate CSR, some allow you to specify it explicitly. The situation is complicated by the fact that for most DEC OS's, the alternate DU CSR is 160334, while for RT-11, SYSGEN will certainly suggest something very different for the default: > 230. What is the CSR (register) address for the second port (172144)? While most DEC DU bootstraps "sniff" through 172144, not all do. Luckily, we don't have to argue about the situation, as Zane told us which bootstrap he is using: >When I tell the system to boot from >DUB0 or DUB1 which is the terminalogy that the WQESD controller expects So any discussion of DEC bootstrap revisions seems to be quite irrelevant :-) For many purposes, I much prefer the WQESD boot scheme. It avoids all the confusion caused by the many, many different DEC DU bootstraps! -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology Voice: 301-767-5917 7328 Bradley Blvd Fax: 301-767-5927 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817

27 years, 8 months

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RX50 / RX33 Questions related to PDP-11's

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< admit) with a RX50 attached, it will access the floppy drives, this is b < evidenced by my using a cleaning floppy in the drive (made it easy to he < the drive being accessed). RX50s are rather loud. ;) < When I try using a pair of Teac floppies I've converted to RX33's using < information I found on Sunsite I'm not really sure it tries to access th < How do you cable RX33's? I set them to Drive 0 and 1, as the docs said < and then used a Y-splitter for the power with a standard PC floppy cabl < (do I need one without the twist?). Can you use RX50 floppies to boot < system with RX33 drives? Ok, TEAC FD55GFV (RX33) or TEAC FD55F (RX50). The cable must not have twist and drive select is 1 for the first, I only use one on the system as I have 3 RD52s. IF the drive speed select and density select jumpers are set right it (using RQDX3) will sense what the media is and operate correctly using the DU boot. None or all of this will be true for the WQESD controller, I don't know it. < Will RT-11 boot off of a floppy drive at CSR 17760334? I've tried with < both the Boot disk from my RX50 distribution set, and a RX50 boot disk t < I made using PUTR. I've a sinking feeling that having two disk controll < is confusing RT-11. 17772150 it the default first device and the default bootable. If there is two the second will be at 17760334. For RQDXs the LUN jumper must corospond to how many units. I believe PDP-11 ROM BOOT expects to boot from the default first (*2150) unless the DU.sys driver has been changed for the second address. RT-11 itself will boot/run on anything you have a driver for. Megan would know for sure. I've never found it necessary to have two MSCP disk controllers in a PDP-11 (I was using them in the vax instead!). < Is it possible to create a Bootable TK50 with RT-11 that can be used to < the install? That's oblique. It's possible to make a bootable RX50(or RX33) that is complete enough to be a system! To install from that is trivial as it's really INITing the target drive (assuming its LL formated) and copying everything to it then doing a copy/boot operation. Not much majik unless the version of RT has been really tweeked. Allison

27 years, 8 months

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MMD-2

by ddameron＠earthlink.net

Hi Bill and all, At 11:18 PM 10/12/98 -0400, you wrote: > >Hey, I've got a couple of E&L MMD-2's here. These are neat little >8080 educational SBC's. Hex keypad, "function" keypad, 7-segment >LED's, and three sets of 8 LED's for I/O ports 0, 1, 2. Includes >a cassette interface, bus expansion connector, serial interface, >and even an EPROM programmer for 2708/2716's. Most impressive! > >But I didn't get any sort of manuals with them. I've figured >out most of the obvious stuff, but it would be nice to know the >format expected by the "load" function, the meaning of a few >unlabelled switches/jumpers, the meaning of "BRL HI" and "BRL LO", >and so on. > Do you know if it's described in any magazine article? There is a 3 part series about the first MMD in the May, June, July 1976 Radio Electronics. It is an 8080 based system with 24 output bits and LED's, keypad, a solderless breadboard, 256 bytes ram (2x 2111), and 256 bytes rom (1702A). The article has the schematic and "monitor" listing and sample programs. I almost bought one a few years ago, but the price was too much, USD $150. By the way, the kit price back in 1976 was $350, assembled $500. -Dave

27 years, 8 months

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Commodore "PET 2001-8" Vintage Computer

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Oct 13, 17:26, Matt Pritchard wrote: > Subject: RE: Commodore "PET 2001-8" Vintage Computer > It doesn't appear to be in this version (Outlook 97). I'm sure there is an option for plain text, just not in quite the same place. > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Kai Kaltenbach [SMTP:kaikal@MICROSOFT.com] > > Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 1998 4:45 PM > > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > > Subject: RE: Commodore "PET 2001-8" Vintage Computer > > > > If you're running Outlook, do Tools.Options/Mail Format, choose Rich Text > > from the drop-down list box instead of HTML. Plain text would be even better -- please don't post RTF, HTML, or encoded stuff to the list (or anywhere by mail, for that matter, unless you *know* the recipient wants it that way for some specific reason. Mail is an plain-text medium). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

27 years, 8 months

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Commodore "PET 2001-8" Vintage Computer

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Oct 13, 15:48, van lincoln wrote: > Subject: RE: Commodore "PET 2001-8" Vintage Computer > I can read it. I use eudora light. > At 02:41 PM 10/13/98 -0500, Matt Pritchard wrote: > >Am I the only person who can't read messages made up of tons of HTML junk? > >> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > >> Subject: Commodore "PET 2001-8" Vintage Computer > >> > >> This message uses a character set that is not supported by the Internet > >> Service. To view the original message content, open the attached > >> message. If the text doesn't display correctly, save the attachment to > >> disk, and then open it using a viewer that can display the original > >> character set. << File: message.txt >> No, there are plenty of us here who either cannot, or do not wish to, read HTML in mail. Quite often we just silently ignore it. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

27 years, 8 months

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RARE!!! (ebay)

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 12:33 PM 10/13/98 -0700, you wrote: >> Since I have never seen the 8800BT, I'm sure it is rare, at least he says a >> number of times that this stuff is RARE. Shipping and handling including >Well... I don't know if I would consider it THAT rare... (at least not Oh come on, doncha know that anything sold on ebay *must* be extremely rare? It's in the terms of service... But in all honesty, in areas other than old computers, one can find some great prices on ebay. (Do a search for auctions I've won recently and you'll see some amazing deals on donald duck stuff. 8^) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 8 months

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Chat Thursday (fwd)

by yowza＠yowza.com

[This is from another list, but it might be interesting. -- Doug] ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 01:25:42 -0400 From: JAY RESPLER <JRespler(a)SURFNJ.NET> To: CALCLIST-L(a)techunix.technion.ac.il Subject: Chat Thursday Folks- Do you have an old Hermes in your basement? Do you collect ribbon tins or just like to talk about it? Have an old pinwheel calculator? When someone says they own a dusty old PET computer, do you find your interest perk up? This Thursday at 9 p.m.EDT (8 p.m. Central, 6 p.m. Pacific) we will be hosting a live chat with Jay Respler, an antique collector from Freehold, N.J. We hope that you will take this opportunity to visit with other people on the Internet about antique office equipment and even not-so-old office equipment now considered antique (the Commodor 64, for example). To enter, go to the main chat page: http://www.asaypub.com:8080/~chatrooms and click the mouse on the "Yesterday's Office Chat." You will be asked for some information, such as your e-mail address. Be there. You will likely enjoy it. Please feel free to contact me if there are any problems getting to the chat. You will need to have frames "on" in order for the chat to work properly. We also ask that people observe our chat policies of being courteous, waiting for an answer before responding, etc. Thanks. /Neal/ Neal McChristy, editor Repair, Service & Remarketing News P.O. Box 670 Joplin, Mo. 64802 mailto:nmcchristy@asaypub.com Ph. (800) 825-9633, ext. 238 FAX (417) 781-0427 -- Regards, Jay Respler -- JRespler(a)surfnj.net Sky Views: http://njsurf.com/skyviews/ Satellite Tracker * Early Typewriter Collector Freehold, New Jersey To unsubscribe send the command: unsubscribe CALCLIST-L to LISTSERV(a)techunix.technion.ac.il The email address of this list is : CALCLIST-L(a)techunix.technion.ac.il

27 years, 8 months

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Off-Topic Wierdness

by roblwill＠usaor.net

Did anyone notice that that "welcome screen" from their GUI looked like something a kit would have drawn in MS Paint? -- -Jason (roblwill(a)usaor.net) ICQ#-1730318 ---------- > From: Uncle Roger <sinasohn(a)ricochet.net> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Re: Off-Topic Wierdness > Date: Tuesday, October 13, 1998 8:42 PM > > At 09:23 PM 10/12/98 -0400, you wrote: > >Would someone please check out accpc.com/home0.html#About, and enlighten > >some of us "historically challenged" individuals as to how much of their > >"history" is possibly truth vs. B.S.? > > They claim they had a windowing product in late '73/early '74 which is > supposedly long before the Alto -- But I thought the Alto was earlier than > that? > > I dunno for sure, but it sure sounds like a bunch of BS to me. > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- > > Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad > roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." > Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates > San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ >

27 years, 8 months

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Picture up (RE: Microsci HAVAC)

by roblwill＠usaor.net

I noticed that ( I looked a 3 Disk II's that my school had, and they all had the grooved disc). I don't have the drive anymore (never was able to get it to work), but All I really remember is the round cable, the red apple (it was unusual), and the Disk II-type black front. If I remember correctly, the case was black, too. I don't remember a data cable (at least built on to it, like the Disk II) though. I can't remember if the round cable was for power, and there was a plug for data, or if the round cable was for power/data. I do remember that the plug was cut off the round cable, though. It was about as round as a AAA battery. I think it had five conductors. -- -Jason (roblwill(a)usaor.net) ICQ#-1730318 ---------- > From: Sam Ismail <dastar(a)ncal.verio.com> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Re: Picture up (RE: Microsci HAVAC) > Date: Monday, October 12, 1998 11:00 PM > > A round cord? The Disk ]['s had a flat ribbon cable that connected to the > Disk ][ Controller. They got their power thru this cord. All the Disk > ]['s I have on hand (about 5) have the multi-colored Apple logo. Although > the solid red Apple sounds distinctly familiar on some piece of equipment. > > To be safe, I'll say as far as I know, and as far as the internals of > every Disk ][ I've seen go, they've all had the grooved disk for > positioning the head. >

27 years, 8 months

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MITS Altair 8800BT Computer (RARE!!!)

by marvin＠rain.org

Since I have never seen the 8800BT, I'm sure it is rare, at least he says a number of times that this stuff is RARE. Shipping and handling including insurance is only $100 plus the winning bid. However, it does have some good photos of the unit. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=35408024

27 years, 8 months

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Lisa software available

by Marion.Bates＠Dartmouth.EDU

A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 1537 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19981014/807da3bb/at…

27 years, 8 months

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Off-Topic Wierdness

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Reading an article, it's not really a hoax. It's a partnership of crackpots. THOUGHT: "T=C * A * I(Squared)" Yeah, right! Get with the '90s! We don't analyze human thought with equations any more! >>In addition to inventing the GUI, the IBM PC, Sun Workstations and Apples, >>as well as several CPUs, he's created a "computer science" organization >>and nominated himself for Computer Scientist of the Year! >> http://www.acsa.net/1996b2.html >> > >Since he's such an important figure in the history of computers, I think we >should invite him to be the keynote speaker at next year's VCF... > >R. > >-- > > > >Warbaby >The WebSite. The Domain. The Empire. >http://www.warbaby.com > >The MonkeyPool >WebSite Content Development >http://www.monkeypool.com > > > Once you get the nose on, the rest is just makeup. > > > > > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 8 months

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Some "Classiccmp-Friendly" pinouts posted....

by aaron＠wfi-inc.com

After being frustrated trying to view some of the pinouts posted on the web with lynx (everyone using frames/tables/etc), I have created a shell-user-friendly pinout directory on my web server. I've got ~75 of 200 (give or take) up so far, and I'll be working on it for the next couple of weeks. http://www.prinsol.com/pinouts/ If you have the time and the giving spirit overcomes you, please share any that you find missing. Especially those from scarce/rare/unusual machines that might help someone who rescues one with no available documentation. And for God's sake, please let me know if I screwed up on any of these, before someone trusts my addled transcriptions and blows something up! Related, but a little more selfish, could someone give me the pinout for the HP-IB port? Aaron

27 years, 8 months

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Quick thrift run...

by aaron＠wfi-inc.com

A couple of quick snags from the local thrift: Wyse-60 terminal, no keyboard: $4.95 "Programming in Assembly: Macro-11", E. Sowell: $.50 Someone posted a couple of days ago that they got some Wyse keyboards? Anyone have an extra for the model 60 that I just got that they would part with for a few $$$? Aaron

27 years, 8 months

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Off-Topic Wierdness

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 09:23 PM 10/12/98 -0400, you wrote: >Would someone please check out accpc.com/home0.html#About, and enlighten >some of us "historically challenged" individuals as to how much of their >"history" is possibly truth vs. B.S.? They claim they had a windowing product in late '73/early '74 which is supposedly long before the Alto -- But I thought the Alto was earlier than that? I dunno for sure, but it sure sounds like a bunch of BS to me. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 8 months

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Software Collecting

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 08:22 PM 10/12/98 -0700, you wrote: >Does anyone on this list collect software, and if so, what is considered >desireable software to collect? Only in the form of Vic-20 carts (which I ended up doing simply because I found the big box of carts I had accumulated in the mid-80's.) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 8 months

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Commodore "PET 2001-8" Vintage Computer

by MPritchard＠EnsembleStudios.com

Not to be bitching; but my email program; Microsoft Outlook, can't handle HTML messages; thus I get an attached text object that is very, very hard to decypher - on every single message from Marvin. (and others). Is it too much to ask for people to send plaintext? -Matt Pritchard > -----Original Message----- > From: Matt Pritchard [SMTP:MPritchard@EnsembleStudios.com] > Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 1998 2:41 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: RE: Commodore "PET 2001-8" Vintage Computer > > Am I the only person who can't read messages made up of tons of HTML junk? > > -Matt Pritchard > Graphics Engine and Optimization Specialist > MS Age of Empires & Age of Empires ][ > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Marvin [SMTP:marvin@rain.org] > > Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 1998 12:55 PM > > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > > Subject: Commodore "PET 2001-8" Vintage Computer > > > > This message uses a character set that is not supported by the Internet > > Service. To view the original message content, open the attached > > message. If the text doesn't display correctly, save the attachment to > > disk, and then open it using a viewer that can display the original > > character set. << File: message.txt >>

27 years, 8 months

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Commodore "PET 2001-8" Vintage Computer

by MPritchard＠EnsembleStudios.com

Right, I know other can. For me I just don't have an option to change. (This is my work e-mail; does eudora interface with exchange server and have a compatible scheduler?) -Matt Pritchard (10 yard penalty; going off topic) > -----Original Message----- > From: van lincoln [SMTP:vlincoln@earthlink.net] > Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 1998 10:48 AM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: RE: Commodore "PET 2001-8" Vintage Computer > > I can read it. I use eudora light. > van > > > > > > At 02:41 PM 10/13/98 -0500, you wrote: > >Am I the only person who can't read messages made up of tons of HTML > junk? > > > >-Matt Pritchard > >Graphics Engine and Optimization Specialist > >MS Age of Empires & Age of Empires ][ > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Marvin [SMTP:marvin@rain.org] > >> Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 1998 12:55 PM > >> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > >> Subject: Commodore "PET 2001-8" Vintage Computer > >> > >> This message uses a character set that is not supported by the Internet > >> Service. To view the original message content, open the attached > >> message. If the text doesn't display correctly, save the attachment to > >> disk, and then open it using a viewer that can display the original > >> character set. << File: message.txt >> > > > >

27 years, 8 months

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MITS Altair 8800BT Computer (RARE!!!)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< Since I have never seen the 8800BT, I'm sure it is rare, at least he say < number of times that this stuff is RARE. Shipping and handling includin < insurance is only $100 plus the winning bid. However, it does have som < good photos of the unit. Marvin, Please stop with the HTML, reduce it to text for this forum. MITS 8800BT is the turnkey (front pannel less) version of the 8800B and fairly common. The PERTEC labeled version is scarcer. Allison

27 years, 8 months

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MITS Altair 8800BT Computer (RARE!!!)

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

Mine has MITS on the front panel and Pertec on the serial number tag. Pictures at http://www.geocities.com/~compcloset/MITSAltair8800bt.htm Kai -----Original Message----- From: allisonp(a)world.std.com [mailto:allisonp@world.std.com] Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 1998 3:09 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Re: MITS Altair 8800BT Computer (RARE!!!) < Since I have never seen the 8800BT, I'm sure it is rare, at least he say < number of times that this stuff is RARE. Shipping and handling includin < insurance is only $100 plus the winning bid. However, it does have som < good photos of the unit. Marvin, Please stop with the HTML, reduce it to text for this forum. MITS 8800BT is the turnkey (front pannel less) version of the 8800B and fairly common. The PERTEC labeled version is scarcer. Allison

27 years, 8 months

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Commodore "PET 2001-8" Vintage Computer

by MPritchard＠EnsembleStudios.com

It doesn't appear to be in this version (Outlook 97). That's what I get for not upgrading to the latest, most bloated, and buggiest beta software. (I'm still running version 3 of my browser too!) -Matt P > -----Original Message----- > From: Kai Kaltenbach [SMTP:kaikal@MICROSOFT.com] > Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 1998 4:45 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: RE: Commodore "PET 2001-8" Vintage Computer > > If you're running Outlook, do Tools.Options/Mail Format, choose Rich Text > from the drop-down list box instead of HTML. > > Kai > > -----Original Message----- > From: Matt Pritchard [mailto:MPritchard@EnsembleStudios.com] > Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 1998 2:34 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: RE: Commodore "PET 2001-8" Vintage Computer > > > Right, I know other can. For me I just don't have an option to change. > (This is my work e-mail; does eudora interface with exchange server and > have > a compatible scheduler?) > > -Matt Pritchard > (10 yard penalty; going off topic) > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: van lincoln [SMTP:vlincoln@earthlink.net] > > Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 1998 10:48 AM > > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > > Subject: RE: Commodore "PET 2001-8" Vintage Computer > > > > I can read it. I use eudora light. > > van > > > > > > > > > > > > At 02:41 PM 10/13/98 -0500, you wrote: > > >Am I the only person who can't read messages made up of tons of HTML > > junk? > > > > > >-Matt Pritchard > > >Graphics Engine and Optimization Specialist > > >MS Age of Empires & Age of Empires ][ > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > > >> From: Marvin [SMTP:marvin@rain.org] > > >> Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 1998 12:55 PM > > >> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > > >> Subject: Commodore "PET 2001-8" Vintage Computer > > >> > > >> This message uses a character set that is not supported by the > Internet > > >> Service. To view the original message content, open the attached > > >> message. If the text doesn't display correctly, save the attachment > to > > >> disk, and then open it using a viewer that can display the original > > >> character set. << File: message.txt >> > > > > > >

27 years, 8 months

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Commodore "PET 2001-8" Vintage Computer

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

If you're running Outlook, do Tools.Options/Mail Format, choose Rich Text >from the drop-down list box instead of HTML. Kai -----Original Message----- From: Matt Pritchard [mailto:MPritchard@EnsembleStudios.com] Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 1998 2:34 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: RE: Commodore "PET 2001-8" Vintage Computer Right, I know other can. For me I just don't have an option to change. (This is my work e-mail; does eudora interface with exchange server and have a compatible scheduler?) -Matt Pritchard (10 yard penalty; going off topic) > -----Original Message----- > From: van lincoln [SMTP:vlincoln@earthlink.net] > Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 1998 10:48 AM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: RE: Commodore "PET 2001-8" Vintage Computer > > I can read it. I use eudora light. > van > > > > > > At 02:41 PM 10/13/98 -0500, you wrote: > >Am I the only person who can't read messages made up of tons of HTML > junk? > > > >-Matt Pritchard > >Graphics Engine and Optimization Specialist > >MS Age of Empires & Age of Empires ][ > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Marvin [SMTP:marvin@rain.org] > >> Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 1998 12:55 PM > >> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > >> Subject: Commodore "PET 2001-8" Vintage Computer > >> > >> This message uses a character set that is not supported by the Internet > >> Service. To view the original message content, open the attached > >> message. If the text doesn't display correctly, save the attachment to > >> disk, and then open it using a viewer that can display the original > >> character set. << File: message.txt >> > > > >

27 years, 8 months

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Commodore "PET 2001-8" Vintage Computer

by MPritchard＠EnsembleStudios.com

Am I the only person who can't read messages made up of tons of HTML junk? -Matt Pritchard Graphics Engine and Optimization Specialist MS Age of Empires & Age of Empires ][ > -----Original Message----- > From: Marvin [SMTP:marvin@rain.org] > Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 1998 12:55 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Commodore "PET 2001-8" Vintage Computer > > This message uses a character set that is not supported by the Internet > Service. To view the original message content, open the attached > message. If the text doesn't display correctly, save the attachment to > disk, and then open it using a viewer that can display the original > character set. << File: message.txt >>

27 years, 8 months

3
2
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auction grabs

by CharlesII＠nwonline.net

My dad recently came accros some intresting stuff at a county auction. I wasn't there or he would have baught more stuff :-) but however he did find some keyboards that look like they came from a terminal and a computer. Does WYSE ring a bell to anyone? But the biggest enigma is an IBM 4224 printer which from the diagram on the back look like it was made for some sort of LAN, but not ethernet. The plug it would take would be about an inch in diameter. This was previously used by the board of elections and in that case was probably was wired in some sort of esotaric network. The other puzzel is an ethernet card that is deffentatily not 10 years old but just bear with me. The face plate already is a dead give away that it is not made for a PC. The other thing is that the interface to the computer uses a plug that has 3 rows of 32 pins. Could any one tell me wat this interface is, and what I could do to adapt this to be used by a PC's serial poart? Another find was in the tons of IBM formated disks I found an original wang floppy disk but without the orginal format :-( Thats all for now.

27 years, 8 months

7
8
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dishwasher + mainboards

by roblwill＠usaor.net

I know this is getting WAY off-topic, but to get it slightly back on-topic.... If you would happen to barf on your , say, C64, would it damage any of the traces on the motherboard or the keyboard? <sorry - couldn't resist:)> -- -Jason (roblwill(a)usaor.net) ICQ#-1730318 ---------- > From: Cameron Kaiser <ckaiser(a)oa.ptloma.edu> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Re: dishwasher + mainboards > Date: Tuesday, October 13, 1998 10:05 AM > > ::Last time I vomitted, some of that stomach acid came up exactly the same > ::path as it would have to go down if I drank it. > > Your stomach also does not contain *just* dilute HCl. You're also barfing up > a buffered solution (all the electrolytes in the food you eat), a gunk of > mucus (I can't believe I'm writing this before breakfast) which further > retards acid action, and food which usually is slightly alkaline itself. > Moreover, the pH 3 in your stomach is needed only to activate enzymes like > trypsin and pepsin from their inert state. It's not like your entire stomach > is a bubbling pit of acid; most of the catalytic activity is performed by the > enzymes, or else you would break things like proteins into inorganic or > elemental compounds instead of the amino acids and monosaccharides you need. > > -- > -------------------------- personal page: http://calvin.ptloma.edu/~spectre/ -- > Cameron Kaiser Information Technology Services Database Programmer > Point Loma Nazarene University Fax: +1 619 849 2581 > ckaiser(a)ptloma.edu Phone: +1 619 849 2539 > -- FORTUNE: You learn from your mistakes. Today will be very educational. -----

27 years, 8 months

2
1
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Fairchild Channel F units

by dcoward＠pressstart.com

Francois said: >>#19 is the hardest to find. >How about the demo cart #2? Is that a har to find Item? I was speaking about the "regular" cartridges. >And I've managed to collect all of the regular cartridges, except >for #26, in the boxes with instructions. >#19 is the hardest to find. I really don't have any interest in the Demo carts because they are so popular. I do have a prototype of football but that came with some other carts. Phil Clayton said: >.How about the RCA Studio II machine ? > Have you ever seen one of these machines ? I have one. Not because I found it, but because it was given to me. Other than that I have not seen another. >Check this site out: http://newton.physics.arizona.edu/~hart/vgh/main.html I wish I have the time to put up nice pictures like this. Great page. >As far as I know the Fairchild F8 microprocessor was not used in >any other applications, however the RCA 1802 microprocessor..... I did get a chance to do some F8 programming about 1982 at AMF's Electronics Research Lab. I had to modify the code in a rowing machine. They added a clip for the ear lobe that measured your heart rate. I used a 3870 because I could try out new code by inserting a new EPROM on to the processor. I did burn out one of the 3870s and I stuck a white ceramic 1702 on top and made it into a tie clip to remind me. That was the only processor I have every destroyed. And I still have it today. As for the instruction set, the only thing I remember is that the ACC was always trashed on a return from subroutine. I think the processor use it to pull the return address from the stack. What was the question? ========================================= Doug Coward Press Start Inc. Sunnyvale,CA =========================================

27 years, 8 months

1
0
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Software Collecting

by paulk＠microsoft.com

> There was a huge burst of interest on the Apple2 newsgroups last > year in the original Ultima's, with the first Ultima in the original > packaging with all the pieces fetching up to $300. > Wow. Well, don't I feel smart, then, for picking up a copy at a thrift store for $1.99 a few years ago. It didn't have the coins but was otherwise complete -- and the coins weren't worth $298.01, in my opinion. Buying things over the Internet is a mixed blessing. > Sellam Alternate e-mail: > dastar(a)siconic.com > Paul Kearns paulk(a)microsoft.com

27 years, 8 months

1
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Commodore "PET 2001-8" Vintage Computer

by franke＠sbs.de

> This was put up on ebay and the auction will close about 7 hours from now > (at about 6:00 p.m. pst). Currently there has only been one bid on it at > the opening bid of $575. > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=34347085 Oh Oh - way expensive - At this price I already start to think about selling some of my PET/CBMs. Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

27 years, 8 months

2
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Pre - Columbus traveler with classic computer?

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

The chief advantage of any kind of history is, IMHO, to reach the understanding of how similar the past is to the present. This applies to computer history as well. Only people who are familiar with it know that the computers we use today (except uncommon parallel and analog computers) are based on Von Neumann's theories more than 30 years ago. There is no real advancement. There is multiplication of matrices by a scalar value... There is nothing new under the sun, as a very old book says. >As mor as I learn about this 'dark ages' as less dark they >apear. Not even very different from before or after (especialy >not differentfrom now ). > >Gruss >H. > >-- >Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut >HRK > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 8 months

1
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Software Collecting

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Ouch! I couldn't do that! I have lots of old software, most of which I have the urge to discard, but hope to put it to good use in a display of some sort. > However when a school dumped all their teaching software for >Commodore and Apple computers, I picked it all up >since I didn't want it going to the dump. This stuff is dated in the >middle 80's. I tend to segregate any original Apple or Commodore Educational software is definitely part of Apple's history.There are lots of crappy games and word processors for Apple and Commodore,which are really quite uninteresting. I tend to pass up most. > >As Sam said, some of the classic games and productivity software are worth >keeping. But what about the rest? > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 8 months

1
0
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Columbus analogy (Was: Corrections to trivia

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Who wouldn't be? With on maps, once the coast is not visible, you're on your own! >It is true that sailors in those days were leery of sailing too far >from coast -- because there was no way to determine longitude until >accurate clocks were developed many years later. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 8 months

1
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Commodore "PET 2001-8" Vintage Computer

by marvin＠rain.org

This was put up on ebay and the auction will close about 7 hours from now (at about 6:00 p.m. pst). Currently there has only been one bid on it at the opening bid of $575. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=34347085

27 years, 8 months

1
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Off-Topic Wierdness

by franke＠sbs.de

>>In addition to inventing the GUI, the IBM PC, Sun Workstations and Apples, >>as well as several CPUs, he's created a "computer science" organization >>and nominated himself for Computer Scientist of the Year! >> http://www.acsa.net/1996b2.html > Since he's such an important figure in the history of computers, I think we > should invite him to be the keynote speaker at next year's VCF... > R. Great idea. Saaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaam - get up, and try to catch him - a speaker of this format might be your #1 for VCF 3.0 (And for shure I will attend it - woooha!). Gruss H. Serious: He might be a real good choice to get a 'new' vision. (And we still have no fun part for the first day :) -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

27 years, 8 months

1
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Picture up (RE: Microsci HAVAC)

by roblwill＠usaor.net

Mine was more like the mechanism of either a TRS-80 drive, or an IBM Tandon drive. The heads were connected to a horizontal stepper by a thin metal sheet. -- -Jason (roblwill(a)usaor.net) ICQ#-1730318 ---------- > From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Re: Picture up (RE: Microsci HAVAC) > Date: Monday, October 12, 1998 4:00 PM > > > BTW: I used to have a Disk II, and the heads were positioned by a stepper > > motor, and didn't have any "spiral-grooved disc" anywhere in the entire > > unit. > > Odd... I've got a number of Disk II's here, and every one has a stepper > motor under the chassis with a disk on the spindle of it above the > chassis. There's a spiral groove in the disk and a little lug on the head > assembly that fits into the groove. The stepper motor turns the disk and > thus moves the heads. > > Maybe there are several versions of the Disk II > > -tony

27 years, 8 months

5
5
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Pre - Columbus traveler with classic computer?

by franke＠sbs.de

> < >> My question is why did everything go to Hell between 300BC and 0AD? H > < >> you believe the earth was flat? Where did this idea come from > < > Wasn't that around the time of the burning of the 'library' in > < > Alexandria? > < In fact, did anybody belive this, or is it just a > < urban legend ? > I think it is ascribed to the dark ages, roughly 700-1400AD Europe. :)) > The polical power of the church was strong then and science was nearly > exitinct. Science ? Just define science - AFAIK they had a lot of scientific research - just more in a way a 'bit' different. Their approach ist just alien for us today. And in fact, the church at this time wasn't anti-science they promoted research and payed a whole lot of money to support researchers. But like every big institution they are a bit slow when it comes to new ideas (Ever tried to launch a project based on a complete new idea ?). Even if you advance to the time of Galileo, the force behind the bann have just been some 'fellows' out of sheer envy. As mor as I learn about this 'dark ages' as less dark they apear. Not even very different from before or after (especialy not differentfrom now ). Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

27 years, 8 months

1
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Fairchild Channel F units

by MPritchard＠EnsembleStudios.com

> < The Odyssey^2 had an Intel 8048 with a 512 byte BIOS, 128 bytes of RAM > < (don't recall the chip) and the video (& sound) was driven by the Intel > < chip - the only application the chip was ever used in; (trivia - multipl > < 8244's could be hooked together with the output of one (slave/master mod > > The part I believe is a programmed 8044 RUPI. the 8044 is a 8051 core > with a slave interface and a SDLC controller. 8051s could be serially > connected via their 9bit serial port (also present on the RUPI). It would > > be the first place of comparison. Intel DId this with the 8041/2 in the > form of printer controller, 8278 (keyboard and display driver), also the > GPIB controller (8291) and the well known 8042 AT keybord controller found > > in AT and X86 systems. > > Allison > > ----------------- Nope. Trust me on this; I've got the docs. and the story of it's development from an Intel person responsible for it. Some parts of the silicon may be similar, but it was designed from the ground up as a video display chip for some sort of consumer electronics. My point was that it wound up being used is just this one application (the Maganvox Odyssey^2/Phillips G7000) and never made available through other channels. I was just pointing out that the 8244 has some capabilites that were not used in that application. What I find so attractive about it (and all the stuff that era), is that it respresents a window in time where the basic foundation blocks for todays stuff (which we take practically for granted) was developed; and the limitations they had to work under (i.e. not practical to have enough memory for a direct bit mapped display, the state of chip fabrication and design, etc) which were unique to that time. I comapre it _alot_ to the automobile industry between 1898 and 1914. Do you guys have any idea how many car compaines sprang up (and faded away)? -Matt Pritchard Graphics Engine and Optimization Specialist MS Age of Empires & Age of Empires ][

27 years, 8 months

1
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Fairchild Channel F units

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< The Odyssey^2 had an Intel 8048 with a 512 byte BIOS, 128 bytes of RAM < (don't recall the chip) and the video (& sound) was driven by the Intel < chip - the only application the chip was ever used in; (trivia - multipl < 8244's could be hooked together with the output of one (slave/master mod The part I believe is a programmed 8044 RUPI. the 8044 is a 8051 core with a slave interface and a SDLC controller. 8051s could be serially connected via their 9bit serial port (also present on the RUPI). It would be the first place of comparison. Intel DId this with the 8041/2 in the form of printer controller, 8278 (keyboard and display driver), also the GPIB controller (8291) and the well known 8042 AT keybord controller found in AT and X86 systems. Allison

27 years, 8 months

1
0
0 0

Off-Topic Wierdness

by rax＠warbaby.com

Have y'all heard American Computer Company? They claim to have alien technology that's going to enable them to come out with a chip that holds 90 gigs. Uh-huh.... http://accpc.com/tcapdisplay.htm 90 GB of Solid State Storage on a Single Wafer! An original Semiconductor Device based upon J-S Dielectric-Junction Electron-Bond-Species Manipulation Semiconductors arranged in a High Density Ultra High Speed Integrated Quantum Junction Array I particularly like the Electron Bond Species Manipulation bit. R. -- Warbaby The WebSite. The Domain. The Empire. http://www.warbaby.com The MonkeyPool WebSite Content Development http://www.monkeypool.com Once you get the nose on, the rest is just makeup.

27 years, 8 months

6
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Pre - Columbus traveler with classic computer?

by franke＠sbs.de

>> My question is why did everything go to Hell between 300BC and 0AD? How could >> you believe the earth was flat? Where did this idea come from? >> Paxton > Wasn't that around the time of the burning of the 'library' in > Alexandria? > Chuck In fact, did anybody belive this, or is it just a urban legend ? :) H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

27 years, 8 months

1
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16K RAM was 300 bucks in 1977

by MPritchard＠EnsembleStudios.com

What's important to note is how much $200, $300, or $2600 in 1977 would buy us today. Factoring in inflation, what would that be equivalent to today? -Matt Pritchard Graphics Engine and Optimization Specialist MS Age of Empires & Age of Empires ][ > -----Original Message----- > From: Phil Clayton [SMTP:handyman@sprintmail.com] > Sent: Monday, October 12, 1998 10:41 AM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: 16K RAM was 300 bucks in 1977 > > > In 1980 I moved into a Commodore Pet with a single IEEE Floppy drive, this > was like heaven, A > nice clear green 9 inch monochrome monitor, no more cassette tapes, 32K > RAM, what more could a > person want.. Well OK, add a Printer another $700.00, and a 300 baud modem > $200.00.. And at > about $2600.00 I had a dream machine.. Phil... >

27 years, 8 months

1
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Fairchild Channel F units

by MPritchard＠EnsembleStudios.com

The Democarts, (both of them) and #19 are very hard to find. From talking with other collectors, the democarts appear to be slightly more common. Personally, I have a Channel F, Boxed Channel F II, and 23 of the 28 carts; but I don't have #19, or either of the Democarts. There was also a picture of a keyboard controller (K-1) on the box for Channel F II. Perhaps a prototype exists for it. As I recall the F8 was a microcontroller in the same vein as the 8048; but that it multiplexed it's address and data lines; allowing for fewer connectors on the cartridges. I think it also had 64 bytes of internal RAM; organized as set of registers (sorta) which probably means that there was no ram in the system. I suspect the Channel F R&D effort was a rather small one; I had a chance to learn about the R&D effort behind the Magnavox Odyssey^2, and discovered that there was only a handful of people behind it doing the actual development (one guy wrote half the game library) and that it had very poor support from management at magnavox. All throughout the history of it, from 1978 to 1983, they were always told "this will be the last stuff you do for the O^2, then we pull the plug" and each time they'll sell out the latest run of carts/systems and be given a reprieve. management finally became serious about it in 1983 just in time for the video game crash. The Odyssey^2 had an Intel 8048 with a 512 byte BIOS, 128 bytes of RAM (don't recall the chip) and the video (& sound) was driven by the Intel 8244 chip - the only application the chip was ever used in; (trivia - multiple 8244's could be hooked together with the output of one (slave/master mode) being fed into the next one. Intel shows no reference to the chip or any mention of it in their archives, but I have the story on it from the horse's mouth (and the data sheets :) ) Somewhere, way way back in my archives, I have a copy of a post from someone who claimed to work at Farichild way back when (and knew about the channel F). I should try and dig it up someday to see if he could be tracked down. -Matt Pritchard Graphics Engine and Optimization Specialist MS Age of Empires & Age of Empires ][ > -----Original Message----- > From: Francois [SMTP:fauradon@pclink.com] > Sent: Monday, October 12, 1998 9:11 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: Fairchild Channel F units > > >#19 is the hardest to find. > > > How about the demo cart #2? Is that a har to find Item? > > Francois > ------------------------------------------------------------- > Visit the desperately in need of update > Sanctuary at: http://www.pclink.com/fauradon

27 years, 8 months

1
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Pre - Columbus traveler with classic computer?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< >> My question is why did everything go to Hell between 300BC and 0AD? H < >> you believe the earth was flat? Where did this idea come from < < > Wasn't that around the time of the burning of the 'library' in < > Alexandria? < < In fact, did anybody belive this, or is it just a < urban legend ? I think it is ascribed to the dark ages, roughly 700-1400AD Europe. The polical power of the church was strong then and science was nearly exitinct. Allison

27 years, 8 months

1
0
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Vaporware (and not) from '83 CES

by david_a._vandenbroucke＠hud.gov

The CC-40 was real. I have one. Dav Vandenbroucke Economist U.S. Dept. HUD david_a._vandenbroucke(a)hud.gov <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> AT INTERNET on 10/11/98 02:47:22 AM To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu AT INTERNET@CCMAILDOM cc: (bcc: David A. Vandenbroucke/PDR/HHQ/HUD) Subject: Re: Vaporware (and not) from '83 CES

27 years, 8 months

1
0
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dishwasher and my 64

by jim＠calico.litterbox.com

A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 686 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19981012/b1bd0cf4/at…

27 years, 8 months

4
3
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dishwasher + mainboards

by roblwill＠usaor.net

> Unless I have my capacitors crossed, some dishwashing agents are > chlorine-based, and H20 <=> OH- + H+; mix a free Cl- ion in and you have > hydrochloric acid. > Well, I think they make it safe enough not to turn to hydrochloric acid (I hope). Considering that people do put plastic dishes in the dishwasher, and most have plastic drains and pumps. If we had dishwashing soap turning to HCl all the time, a lot of people would have a big mess on their hands (and soap companies would probably have a lot of lawsuits). -- -Jason (roblwill(a)usaor.net) ICQ#-1730318

27 years, 8 months

7
12
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Wyse Systems (was RE: auction grabs)

by jsalzman＠hersheys.com

I worked for a company once as a service tech fixing CPT Word Processing systems. When PC based word processing started to become popular (mid '80s), CPT bridged the gap between their longtime standalone word processing units and desktop PCs by using Wyse PC clones (the ones with the blue backlit LCD display on them). They primarily consisted of a clone style case with an expansion board. The CPU board plugged into the expansion board like an add-on card and was primarily an entire 286 or 386 computer on a card. The keyboard connector was an RJ-11 with an optional DIN adaptor for conventional keyboards. The other card typically found in the system was a bridgeboard which was an entire CPT system on a card with a monochrome video out. The 2 cards talked to each other and became a full computer with built in CPT word processing simultaneosly running along with a DOS/windows based environment. The monitor was a portrait style page white display. The on screen display could be split to show DOS on top and CPT on the bottom or made to show a full screen CPT system as the CPT systems were originally designed. Many govornment agencys used these systems to bridge their own transition from dedicated word processing systems to PCs. Jeff Salzman >> > computer. Does WYSE ring a bell to anyone? But the biggest enigma is an >> >> Wyse terminals are fairly well-known, and I think they sold a PC clone at >> one point. > >Actually several PC clones from 8088 up through at least the 80386. IIRC >some of the later ones were quite stylish with diagonally-mounted LCDs >(date, time, etc.). > >The later PCs and terminals used an RJ-11 (phone) connector for the >keyboard cable. AS I recall, though, it was easily adaptable to an IBM >AT connector. I believe the keyboards were interchangable between the PCs >and terminals. >

27 years, 8 months

1
0
0 0

Pre - Columbus traveler with classic computer?

by Innfogra＠aol.com

In a message dated 98-10-13 03:37:16 EDT, you write: << is true that sailors in those days were leery of sailing too far from coast -- because there was no way to determine longitude until accurate clocks were developed many years later. >> We know now that the Egyptians knew the 25,000 mile figure around 700 BC and possibly much earlier. Recently they pulled a brass differential geared device that may be an astronomical calculator from a wreck in the Mediterainian that dates back to 300 - 400 BC. I bet the device is older yet, it is hard to carbon date brass. They recently discovered settlements on the south coast of Chile that date back 30,000 yrs. I believe that there was regular but infrequent trade & travel between Egypt and South America 4000 years ago. My question is which way did they go, the long way, via China, the Bearing Straits and down the west coast of the Americas; or did they go the short way, which is from the westernmost tip of Africa straight across the Atlantic. This distance is is shorter than the length of the Mediterainian. If you were able to calculate the distance one had traveled by going the long way (I think this was done first); I would think that the short way would become obvious. To get back to classic computers, I bet this brass device is one of the first computers, if differential geared devices count. My question is why did everything go to Hell between 300BC and 0AD? How could you believe the earth was flat? Where did this idea come from? Paxton

27 years, 8 months

2
1
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Fairchild Channel F

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< I don't recall keybounce being a problem with Level I BASIC -- it < reared its ugly head after the upgrade to Level II. Correct. L1 basic had a good keyscan routine. LII basic it got mucked up in the interest of speed. Allison

27 years, 8 months

1
0
0 0

Picture up (RE: Microsci HAVAC)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< the infamous grooved disk? is there anything wrong with that design? loo < fairly clever and reliable. i havent seen any wear problems with the 20+ < disk drives i have. the only minor issue is adjusting the head stop for < all you have to do is sight a little dot on the grooved disk (apple call < cam) with the little metal cam follower and make adjustments as needed. The biggest is the follower could slip out of the groove requiring manual intervention. They were also very slow step rates 30-40ms! I also found that there was enough mechanical hysteresis plagueing them to affect media portability. Allison

27 years, 8 months

1
0
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Microprocessor holy wars...

by foxnhare＠goldrush.com

> From: Uncle Roger <sinasohn(a)ricochet.net> > Subject: Re: Corrections to trivia > > At 09:51 PM 10/7/98 -0700, you wrote: > >Intel came out the winners; they wanted it the most. But it would have > >happened with or without them. You had the 6800, the 6502 and a whole > >slew of others. The computers built around those processors were just as > >relevant and would have happened anyway. > > I will admit up front that I don't know everything, and I am not an EE > (dropped out of community college) but it seems to me that Intel hadn't won > anything until ~81 when IBM came out with their PC. Until then, the Z80 > and 6502 were as dominant (if not more so) than the 8080/8085? I'd believe that: Z80 (CP/M) 6502 (Apple). > In fact, I'll go so far as to suggest that perhaps if IBM had gone with, > say, the z8000, Intel would not be anywhere near as big as it is? > > It seems to me that what really got the "cheap computer revolution" going > was the Z80 (CP/M, TRS-80, etc.) and the 6502 (Atari, Commodore, Apple II). > Because no matter what the tech-heads are doing in their garages, nothing > is a revolution until you can buy it at Sears. One of the driving forces behind the prevelance of non-Intel micros in the 70s was that Intel processors were expensive (actually they still are!). I think the 8080 was about $200 when MOS started selling 6502s for under $40. Of course with that Intel lowered thier prices (to about $100 or so). Not to say that the Z80, 6502 and others were bad CPUs, it's just that Intel was not looking for the hobbiest/home market at all, and if it wern't for a big business name (IBM) behind it it would still be looking for a 'killer box' (like 'killer app' is to software) to be used in. And IBM was known for the safe route, proven chips and designs, (no innovation made cloning alot easier) and Intel had the name and a good track record among business machine microprocessors. -- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Larry Anderson - Sysop of Silicon Realms BBS (300-2400bd) (209) 754-1363 Visit my Commodore 8-Bit web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/commodore.html -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-

27 years, 8 months

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Columbus analogy (Was: Corrections to trivia

by franke＠sbs.de

> Then again, even today, people seem to think that Europe and Asia are > separate continents, even with vastly better maps and roads and rails > crossing the border between them in many places. They are, at least in the same way as Europe ans Africa. Gruss H. BTW: is there _any_ African Computer known ? Maybe Kits or other Homebrew from SA or even a 'real' homecomputer/Bussinessystem ? -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

27 years, 8 months

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Thanks for the help.

by Aaron_J_Hayden＠student.ferris.edu

I'd like to thank everybody who gave me info on the PC Jr. I got it going late last week. It turns out it needs two power supplies for the cpu. Apparently the people who owned it before me had it upgraded and the upgrade requires it's own power. I saw the second power plug, but it wasn't marked and I didn't think of it needing a second supply. Anyway, it runs like a top now. All of the info was greatly appreciated. Aaron

27 years, 8 months

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Cipher F880 9-track Docs/Schematics

by aaron＠wfi-inc.com

I was cleaning out the garage and came across my one real documentation treasure, the doc binder for my Cipher F880 tape drive. The nifty thing is that they put all of the schematics, engineering data (including a price breakdown of every individual component), and mechanical diagrams (lots of blowups) in there too. Does anyone have a pressing need for this documentation? I won't give up the original, but if someone expresses some real interest I could scan it in and post it on a web server or something. It's a lot of material, but it's interesting that they give so much detailed technical information in there. I'll get around to it eventually anyway, just for archival purposes... Aaron

27 years, 8 months

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MMD-2

by yakowenk＠cs.unc.edu

Hey, I've got a couple of E&L MMD-2's here. These are neat little 8080 educational SBC's. Hex keypad, "function" keypad, 7-segment LED's, and three sets of 8 LED's for I/O ports 0, 1, 2. Includes a cassette interface, bus expansion connector, serial interface, and even an EPROM programmer for 2708/2716's. Most impressive! But I didn't get any sort of manuals with them. I've figured out most of the obvious stuff, but it would be nice to know the format expected by the "load" function, the meaning of a few unlabelled switches/jumpers, the meaning of "BRL HI" and "BRL LO", and so on. Anybody remember these things? Thanks, Bill. PS. These things seem to be using the word "pop" to mean "burn", as in "popping an EPROM". Was this a widespread usage? I've heard the words "burn", "blow", and "program" used this way, but "pop" is new to me.

27 years, 8 months

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Microsci HAVAC

by Innfogra＠aol.com

I can't believe I am doing this much research on a computer I have already sold, but it is interesting. I found the Havac (that is it's name) in the "what's New?" column in Byte, May, 1984. It is an Apple work-alike and they also call it a transportable Computer. It uses the 6502 processor and a 164K 5 1/4" floppy. 64K of ram and 8K of rom and has high res color graphics. The manufacturer claims that over a 1000 Apple II programs will run on it. It is supposed to have printer, serial and Game ports beside the external floppy connector. It's suggested list was $850. I couldn't find an advertisement though, only the announcement. the good news is that I found a couple of boot disks in my archives which I will send to Kai. Paxton

27 years, 8 months

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Picture up (RE: Microsci HAVAC)

by roblwill＠usaor.net

Actually, I don't think the apple was the standard multi-colored apple. I think it was just red (If I remember correctly). It had the black face, with the front flip-down latch/door, and it had a metal enclosure. However, thinking back, I think it had a P/S in it (I no longer have it, because it wouldn't work with anything). I'm not sure about the P/S, but I do remember a round cord coming out of it. -- -Jason (roblwill(a)usaor.net) ICQ#-1730318 ---------- > From: Sam Ismail <dastar(a)ncal.verio.com> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Re: Picture up (RE: Microsci HAVAC) > Date: Monday, October 12, 1998 8:53 PM > > And you are sure this was a full-height, Apple manufactured, metal > enclosure, black face plate with the colorful apple logo, Disk ][? > > Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- > Ever onward. > > Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 > See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! > [Last web site update: 09/21/98] >

27 years, 8 months

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Corrections to trivia

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< So, is Columbus less important because the Vikings reached the Americas < before him? Or is it only important that most of the lasting effects < descend from Columbus? since I'm not a student of this general branch of history I can't comment accuractly. It would seem to me the big differnece was the wave of colonization that resulted. Better put, the vikings were here. Columbus told the world two things, it's not flat and there are great riches in the east. Somewhere in ther is the difference in those explorations goals. < Yes this is OT, but it mirrors one of the recent arguments on ClassicCmp < and it could be argued either way because both arguments have validity. < It comes down to what the individual thinks is 'important'. True. The consideration is not the indiviual importance of any item but it's impact on the collective picture. What is significant is the picture was in some respects a collection of snapshots in time without continuity or context. There were/are pieces missing from the puzzle and it would be nice to fill them in. For example; Two of the oldest computing models Harvard and Von Neuman date back to the first machines yet they influence machines still. To make the picture complete we also need to know if there are other models and what they are. An aside to this is while Intel is currently the apparent successful leader en masse we still don't know how it will play over time yet to come. There have been near reversals in the past and it would only take the next design leap to change the current course. Also the industry is only 30 years old in a century where we are still developing fundemental technologies. My example for that is in the late 70s and early '80s everyone said that 16bit CPUs would wipe the 8bitters away. It sorta did, but not to the projected extent. There would be a wave of 8bitters like the Kaypro, ampro, SB180 to name a few in the 84-86 window and later. The 16 bit machine really didn't reflect enough of an improvement as the next level needed more. I'd say Apple knew (tripped on) this when they did the jump >from 6502 to 68000 (internally 32bit). It would be 32 bit cpus that would have the real impact. I expect that while Merced and Alpha are having an impact we have yet to see the next significant impactor. While we are going much faster, the way we compute is still logically similar to some very old machines. Allison

27 years, 8 months

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Fairchild Channel F units

by fauradon＠pclink.com

>#19 is the hardest to find. How about the demo cart #2? Is that a har to find Item? Francois ------------------------------------------------------------- Visit the desperately in need of update Sanctuary at: http://www.pclink.com/fauradon

27 years, 8 months

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dishwasher and my 64

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

jeez,. if anyone needs a 64, ive got 3 i want to get rid of. i'm apple ][ biased. =D In a message dated 10/12/98 8:37:42 PM US Eastern Standard Time, eric(a)brouhaha.com writes: > Jim Strickland <jim(a)calico.litterbox.com> writes: > > Well, I reassembled the 64, after cutting a manilla file folder to replace > > the paper between the metal shield on the back and the back of the board. > ... > > So okay, where DO I get a replacement keyboard for this thing? Also a > case > > in nicer condition would be nice. This one had a keyboard cover hinge > > permanently cemented to the top. > > It would be much easier just to find an entire 64 in good condition. Keep > the one you have now for spare parts.

27 years, 8 months

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Picture up (RE: Microsci HAVAC)

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

the infamous grooved disk? is there anything wrong with that design? looks fairly clever and reliable. i havent seen any wear problems with the 20+ apple disk drives i have. the only minor issue is adjusting the head stop for which all you have to do is sight a little dot on the grooved disk (apple calls it a cam) with the little metal cam follower and make adjustments as needed. david In a message dated 10/12/98 7:46:36 PM US Eastern Standard Time, cisin(a)xenosoft.com writes: > The FIRST drives for the Apple ][ used a Shugart mechanism with the > infamous grooved disk. I have no idea what they might have used later.

27 years, 8 months

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Strange computer... ATR 8000

by rexstout＠uswest.net

Picked this thing up at Wacky Willy's in Portland, OR for $5 with a floppy drive(actually two 5.25" drives in a case with a PS). Not quite sure what to think of it. It says ATR8000 SWP Microcomputer Products on the front, lighted power switch on front, and on the back we have two 13-pin Molex connectors marked Peripheral Out and Computer In, and three edge-connectors marked RS-232, Printer and Floppy Drive. Inside it says Software Publisher's ATR8000, and has a Z80 CPU, a WDC floppy IC and a VERY small amount of RAM... They assumed it was an Atari of some sort, as they recently got an 800 and 800XL. Does anyone have any idea what the ATR 8000 is? BTW, if you need some Univac disk packs(don't remember the numbers on it) they have two at WW's. Kinda expensive, they say they sell the platters seperatly to artists @$10 each. With 4 or 5 platters in each pack, you either need to shell out almost $50 or be good at convincing them that it's not worth that much(and it's not easy, I've tried before). BTW, it's at the Vaughn St. location, at the end of the Fremont bridge(US30 exit, then the Vaughn St exit from the exit ramp...). -------------------------------------------------------------- | http://members.tripod.com/~jrollins/index.html - Computers | | http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/1681/ - Star Trek | | orham(a)qth.net list admin KD7BCY | | ham-mac(a)qth.net Portland, OR | --------------------------------------------------------------

27 years, 8 months

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Marketing (was Re: Columbus analogy (Was: Corrections to trivia

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

I maintain my stance that 'microprocessor' is a term used by the public and media to refer to a series of technical developments, that are not well considered before calling them microprocessors. In short, there is no way to define a microprocessor in the technical sense. TI's 1979 book Understanding Microprocessors defines it as: A digital integrated unit (or a set of IC's) that contains the digital functions necessary to be a CPU. It "processes" information and controls and keeps the system working in harmony as it responds to the step by step program that the CPU follows. Nice and circular :) >what a "microprocessor" is. In fact, the Arabs and the Israelis will >never have peace until the definition of a microprocessor is agreed upon >once and for all (oh yeah, and what "the first" means too). > >Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Ever onward. > > Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 > See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! > [Last web site update: 09/21/98] > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 8 months

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Strange computer... ATR 8000

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 04:36 PM 10/12/98 -0800, you wrote: >Picked this thing up at Wacky Willy's in Portland, OR for $5 with a floppy >drive(actually two 5.25" drives in a case with a PS). Not quite sure what >to think of it. It says ATR8000 SWP Microcomputer Products on the front, >lighted power switch on front, and on the back we have two 13-pin Molex >connectors marked Peripheral Out and Computer In, and three edge-connectors That is a (iirc) CP/M(?) box for an atari 800. I believe it plugs into the 800 (or other 8-bit atari) and the atari is the terminal for the CP/M Machine. Pretty amazing device. (Pretty amazing that I recognized the name! 8^) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 8 months

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dishwasher + mainboards

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 10/12/98 6:18:47 PM US Eastern Standard Time, jim(a)calico.litterbox.com writes: hope you scraped your dishes clean before you ran them through! lol. Hehe - actually I ran it with a load of dishes. :) > --

27 years, 8 months

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dishwasher + mainboards

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< Your esophagus, on the other hand, might object to your drinking HCl (de < on how dilute, I guess). Actually a fairly powerful acid is the citric acid in lemons and limes that people can and do eat/drink. Most pharmaceuticals use citric, hydrocloric and some preps even nitric acid to get a the required PH. This is really way off track for cleaning boards unless they have been hit with a strong alkli (leaking nicads!), in which case a good dousing with vinegar (acetic acid) or lemon juice (citric acid) will neutralize that. Anyhow the PH and total acidity of a dishwasher unless useing something strange is fairly mild. Electrolytic corrosion (usually from ionic solutions and dissimilar metals) is prevented by quickly drying the board either with mild heat or forced air. Unless your water is bad (unsafe to drink) it is likely fine for washing a board. I've done this to 10-15 qbus cards, a Micronta DVM, and several s100 cards with the expected result, clean. I do it on boards I'll have to work on as it's less messy and in one case it cleared a short! FYI: I used to service marine radios when I lived on LI,NY and the procedure for dunked electronics was toss it in a barrel of clean water ASAP to get the salt out. This is repeated with several barrels of clean water to get all of the salt. Then the equipment is than opended, cleaned and repaired as needed (speakers, microphones, buzzers, enclosed coils). Generally speaking potable water is ok, mud worse (abrasive), salt is real nasty. Allison

27 years, 8 months

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Picture up (RE: Microsci HAVAC)

by roblwill＠usaor.net

Did the Unidisk look anything like the Disk II? OR could it have been possible that the drive mechanism was replaced in mine? -- -Jason (roblwill(a)usaor.net) ICQ#-1730318 ---------- > From: Sam Ismail <dastar(a)ncal.verio.com> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Re: Picture up (RE: Microsci HAVAC) > Date: Monday, October 12, 1998 6:52 PM > > On Mon, 12 Oct 1998, Tony Duell wrote: > > > Odd... I've got a number of Disk II's here, and every one has a stepper > > motor under the chassis with a disk on the spindle of it above the > > chassis. There's a spiral groove in the disk and a little lug on the head > > assembly that fits into the groove. The stepper motor turns the disk and > > thus moves the heads. > > > > Maybe there are several versions of the Disk II > > There is only one Disk ][. As mentioned before, the newer units were > first called the Unidisk and then later simply 'Apple 5.25" Drive'. > > Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- > Ever onward. > > Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 > See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! > [Last web site update: 09/21/98] >

27 years, 8 months

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Picture up (RE: Microsci HAVAC)

by roblwill＠usaor.net

Um, I don't care what anybody says, but that disk drive does NOT look like anything similar to an Apple Disk II. BTW: I used to have a Disk II, and the heads were positioned by a stepper motor, and didn't have any "spiral-grooved disc" anywhere in the entire unit. -- -Jason (roblwill(a)usaor.net) ICQ#-1730318 ---------- > From: Kai Kaltenbach <kaikal(a)MICROSOFT.com> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Picture up (RE: Microsci HAVAC) > Date: Sunday, October 11, 1998 10:34 PM > > OK, I snapped a quick shot of the HAVAC, it's not the greatest picture but > it'll do :) > > http://www.geocities.com/~compcloset/MicrosciHavac.htm > > Kai > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sam Ismail [mailto:dastar@ncal.verio.com] > Sent: Sunday, October 11, 1998 6:42 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: Microsci HAVAC > > > On Sun, 11 Oct 1998, Kai Kaltenbach wrote: > > > This weekend I picked up this wacky little 6502 computer called the > Microsci > > HAVAC. Has anyone else ever seen one of these, or better yet, does anyone > > have a boot disk for it? > > Sounds neat. Can you supply us with a GIF? > > > The HAVAC has the weirdest floppy drive I've ever seen. It has a > > center-mounted clamp lever, and the head positioning is done via a > > spiral-grooved disc! > > The Apple Disk ][ used the same mechanism. > > Sellam Alternate e-mail: > dastar(a)siconic.com > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > --- > Ever onward. > > Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 > See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! > [Last web site update: 09/21/98]

27 years, 8 months

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Marketing (was Re: Columbus analogy (Was: Corrections to trivia

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

But since most working implementations of an 8088 (the only one I have the databook for) require additional ICs, I'm wondering if it could truly be called a single-chip CPU. I mean, this thing needs chips for the clock line (8284, this says). It needs more chips for accessing RAM, and it needs RAM. Why do you say it's single chip? I think the only way to determine if it's a microprocessor is to look in the company's literature. If they call it an arithmetic logic unit, it's not a microprocessor. >failed to produce a working single-chip CPU before Intel. > >TI had a design, but it didn't prove to be manufacturable. > >Even if not everyone here agrees that being on a single chip is a necessary >condition for something to be called a microprocessor, to the best of my >knowledge no one disagrees with the claim that Intel as the first to make >a single-chip CPU. > >Eric > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 8 months

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Internet Question

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 06:06 PM 10/9/98 -0800, you wrote: >Does anyone remember the cost of internet access/online time via Compuserve >in the 80s ? I need to give a comparison of today's cost of sending a >graphics file. I seem to remember it as something like $12/hour for 300/1200bps and $24/hour for 2400bps. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 8 months

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dishwasher + mainboards

by franke＠sbs.de

> Okay, I just ran the mainboard to my 64 through the dishwasher. Does anyone > know what the material between the metal noise shield and the board is, Paper > and why it expanded during dishwashing? soaking wet ? > And if it will shrink again as it > cools and dries? I didn't run the thing through the dry cycle either. Use strong, cool air to blow the water away. I always use compressed air from a supply for pneumatic tools. Blowing the water away instead of drying avoids stains >from calcium and other dispensed materials (Well, Munich water is _very_ 'strong' :). > It is VERY clean... :) :)) > If it works after this I'll probably have to track down a replacement > keyboard. THEN throw the whole thing in a ziplock bag and keep it until I > figure out what to do with it. :) Wooah - a Ziplock Bag ? Together with the energy cost for your dishwasher this tripples the value of the C64 board :) Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

27 years, 8 months

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dishwasher + mainboards

by allisonp＠world.std.com

ckaiser(a)oa.ptloma.edu hath spoke: < Good think you didn't run it through the dry cycle, or chips like the PL < might short out (very sensitive to heat). The dry cycle is ok if the temperature is under 180f, too hot and it can over heat parts. I prefer the oven at 160-180f as it's drier and a bit faster. A blast of compressed air is also good for getting water out from under parts to hasten drying. The PALS while temperature sensitive and no more so than any of the LSI on the board. < Are you sure the soap wouldn't have hurt the solder or board traces, < though? Your kidding? Soap will not hurt the solder or the boards. How do you think assembled boards are cleaned commercially? Allison

27 years, 8 months

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No place to contact... yet... but be ready

by mbg＠world.std.com

>Xref: world alt.sys.pdp8:4263 >Path: world!blanket.mitre.org!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!206.191.82.231!rockie.attcanada.net!attcanada!wn4feed!worldnet.att.net!135.173.83.225!attworldnet!newsadm >From: david.razler(a)worldnet.att.net (David M. Razler) >Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp8 >Subject: DEC Rainbows going up for sale >Date: 11 Oct 1998 16:10:15 GMT >Organization: AT&T WorldNet Services >Lines: 20 >Message-ID: <3621d6f7.30336552(a)netnews.worldnet.att.net> >Reply-To: david.razler(a)worldnet.att.net >NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.68.22.131 >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 If all goes well, my employer, The Press of Atlantic City, will be selling off an almost unlimited stock of working DEC Rainbows in 1st Q '99 (and, boy will I be glad to get something "modern" like a 486 on my desk.) Anyway, in addition to being collectors items in their own right, they have the same basic mechanical and electrical components as the DECMates. Word I'm getting is they'll go for cheap to anyone looking to keep them alive or in need of parts, at or just over scrap value. Also up for grabs will be at least one major PDP-11 system. I'll keep the list posted with the latest news including when and how to order your own PC-Clone and DECMate repair kit. dmr David M. Razler david.razler(a)worldnet.att.net

27 years, 8 months

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SCO Unix (Older version)

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

What was the original price of this thing, and to whom was it marketed? > FWIW, I've listed an older version of SCO Unix up on Haggle. The URL is: > > http://www.haggle.com/cgi/getitem.cgi?id=201787290 > > Caveat emptor! > > >-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- >Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies >(Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin(a)jps.net) (Web: >http://table.jps.net/~kyrrin) >SysOp: The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272, 253-639-9905) >"Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own >human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 8 months

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Picture up (RE: Microsci HAVAC)

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

> http://www.geocities.com/~compcloset/MicrosciHavac.htm >Um, I don't care what anybody says, but that disk drive does NOT look like >anything similar to an Apple Disk II. I agree - the door doesn't look anything at all like a Disk II. >BTW: I used to have a Disk II, and the heads were positioned by a stepper >motor, and didn't have any "spiral-grooved disc" anywhere in the entire >unit. I've had several dozen Disk II's, and they all had stepper motors with spiral grooved disks. Many, many drives were based around the SA390 and 400 mechanics, and some of them look quite dissimilar from the outside despite the fact that their internal mechanics are very similar. Kai - you mention on your web page that when you turn the machine on you go into a boot ROM monitor. What are the prompts like? Any copyright notices? Menus? Any "obvious" commands? Tim.

27 years, 8 months

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Items FS or trade

by rhblake＠bigfoot.com

Since I shut down the at home/on site business here and went to work as an ISS/CSS at a local corporation I need to do some cleaning out of excess here. I have many, many machines from 8088 through 80386DX that I can make a reasonable deal with someone on (not as cheap as an unknown condition thrift shop sale though) for mostly main units (you add the KB and monitor in may cases) but I have a few setups that are complete such as a 5150 PC that does have a 5151 monitor and original keyboard. PS/2's out the bung hole, Dells and AT&T's, etc. Many will have to be dug through when someone inquires about the condition and what it includes but 99% are in great condition other than minor wear and tear. I'm always looking for odds and ends for my machines here such as drives, cards, modems, etc as well as electronics test equipment for my bench. If you have something to trade rather than cash (which is my favorite, as is many other's) then let me know and we can go from there. Please email me direct so this isn't a problem with the list. I hate putting this on here but the people on this list seem to appreciate good sturdy hardware and see the actual value and use for it rather than seeing a pile of scrap with gold retrieval possibilities. Russ Blakeman Harned, KY 40144

27 years, 8 months

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dishwasher + mainboards

by roblwill＠usaor.net

> It doesn't have to be a strong solution; even a weak solution of HCl is > fine for human skin but will corrode metal. > > Still, only some do. Probably most are ionic detergents (sodium dodecyl > sulfate, sodium lauryl sulfate) but you never know, especially with rinse > agents. Just gotta be sure you pull the board before the rinse cycle :-). Then it's usually best to rinse it with distilled water. -- -Jason (roblwill(a)usaor.net) ICQ#-1730318

27 years, 8 months

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What was the first Unix micro?

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

i third it In a message dated 98-10-08 13:10:59 EDT, you write: << I second your opinion Sam. Marty ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: What was the first Unix micro? Author: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu at internet Date: 10/7/98 11:42 PM On Wed, 7 Oct 1998, Ward Donald Griffiths III wrote: > OK, I'm getting tired of the arguments about who made the first > microprocessor. Fine. Maybe God did -- it's called DNA and as an > atheist I don't grant credit to anybody. Oh, ok. God forbid we discuss computer history on this list, Ward. We'll just go away now so you can fill up the list with your pointless one-line replies. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Ever onward. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 09/21/98] >>

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Marketing (was Re: Columbus analogy (Was: Corrections to trivia

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

The thing is, people bought their earlier products when IBM won in its battle with NCR. When IBM began to make computers, it was already well estblished in the business world. Do people mean a product with good ergonomics or with easy repairs in mind as marketing? That plays a role, though it has nothing to do with the quality of the product or its innovativeness. >> I would be very flattered that you attribute: >> * 40 years of corporate stability to marketing >> * extensive manufacturing capability to marketing >> * cash reserves to sustain development to marketing >> * vast R+D resources to marketing >> * world-class documentation to marketing >> * world-wide customer support to marketing >> * a simply immense infrastructure ... to marketing! > >Do you think they would have any of the above if nobody ever bought any of >their products? > >Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Ever onward. > > Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 > See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! > [Last web site update: 09/21/98] > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 8 months

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Fairchild Channel F units

by dcoward＠pressstart.com

Doug Spence <ds_spenc(a)alcor.concordia.ca> said: >Speaking of which... how common are the Channel Fs? I picked up several >cartridges for one some time ago, but I've never seen the actual unit. >I've only seen ads for them in old magazines. > I see one about every two years. I have 3, 2 of which are in boxes. And I've managed to collect all of the regular cartridges, except for #26, in the boxes with instructions. #19 is the hardest to find. http://www.best.com/~dcoward/museum/mvfair.htm There was a second system (System II) that I believe was produced by the company that bought the rights to Channel F from Fairchild. The big differences in the two systems was that the original had a dark plexiglas cover over the controller storage compartment and the controllers were hard wired into the unit. It was the first home video game system to use programmed cartridges, but I think the cool thing about the Channel F was it 4 axis controller. ========================================= Doug Coward Press Start Inc. Sunnyvale,CA =========================================

27 years, 8 months

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Sams Computerfacts

by workapulo＠my-dejanews.com

You can also get photocopies of most of the Sam's Computerfacts by calling them and asking for one. If they have an old copy in stock, they'll copy it and send it to you for $20. I got Computerfacts for the C64 and C128 this way. Tony -- On Mon, 12 Oct 1998 02:12:00 Innfogra wrote: >Hi; >I have just listed on ebay a group of Sams Computerfacts that I have had some >interest in from people on the classic computer list. > >They are for: > >Computers - Osborne OCC1 & OCC1A, TRS-80 Models 3 and 4, Epson QX-10, Franklin >Ace 1000, Atari 800XL, IBM PC & AT, AT&T 6300, Leading Edge D > >Monitors - IBM 5151 and 5153, Amdek Color-I and the Video-300 > >Printers - Okidata Microlines 82A and 92, Apple A90303, NEC PC-8023A-N, NEC >PC-8025A, IBM 5152-002, Epsons MX-80 IIIF/T, FX-80, FX-100, MX-100, RX-80, >FX-286e, Star Geminis 10X and 15X > >These can be searched for by the keyword "Computerfact" (Singular context >please). > >I also listed a factory Toshiba T 1100 plus laptop maintenance Manual. >All of these are under Computer/hardware/books. >Paxton > >p.S. Please direct questions toi Whoagiii(a)aol.com. > -----== Sent via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----- http://www.dejanews.com/ Easy access to 50,000+ discussion forums

27 years, 8 months

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Seeking: Lisa/Mac XL 'Do it yourself guide'

by jimw＠agora.rdrop.com

The title pretty much says it all... Having (finally) added a LISA to the collection, I'm looking for a copy of the Sun Remarketing book on the LISA/Mac XL. Anyone out there have one that they could be parted from, or induced to feed thru a copier/scanner? ...and yes, I've seen the one on eBay... it's getting real expensive already (sigh) -jim --- jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174

27 years, 8 months

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TRS-80 Model 100 (was Re: Convergent Technologies work

by franke＠sbs.de

>>The mention in this thread of a Kyocera-labeled product intrigues me, >>as I'd never heard of such at the edge of the Pacific I was on then. > The Kyocera KC-85 is well known, although not too common. The case is > shaped more like the NEC, but it has the keyboard of the m100. > P.S., come to VCF 3.0 and see all the variations (hopefully!) and check out > the talk I'm going to do (hopefully!) on the history of all these machines. > (If anyone has any info, history, or anecdotes, please get in touch!) I have the technical Reference, DOS manual and BASIC I/O Manuals for the NEC 8201A - interested ? Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

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Hayes

by franke＠sbs.de

>>> Just so everyone knows, Hayes has filed for Bankruptcy.. >>Again? > When was the last time? I think 3 or 4 years ago. Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

27 years, 8 months

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Marketing /formerly ...

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< No, those running MS software are doing so mostly because MS was < the only game in town way back when... not hard to be 'best' when < you're the only one... also not hard to be 'worst'... Back to the original topic some. History. MS was not the only game in town. DRI, later Novell, now Caldara offered CPM86 and it decendants such as CCPM and DRDOS until MS crushed them. Caldara is still at it with Opendos (DRdos decendant). < Personally, I avoid MS-anything like the plague... I have a linux < system which has been up for more than a week straight... running < W95, I'm lucking if I *don't* have to reboot several times a day < either because the system has simply crashed, or wedged itself... I'm no fan of MS but I run a ton of CADD, FPGA and cross assemblers unavailable for Linux or freeBSD. The system that I must run it on is MSdos6.22/WIN3.1 that generally has an up time of months between reboots. The last down time was for a fan replacement. I've never run w95, but I've seen systems that can achieve that as well. My other half has a laptop for work that seems to be solid enough. None of the MS OSs are great products, they work ok though and when the system is configured with stable hardware and software. I've also found that linix or freeBSD tends to beat the daylights out of hardware and find even minor problems that seem to get by under MSdos/win but cause it to crash intermittently. Most of the complaints I've heard of MS dos/winders can be leveled at Linux or other unice as well. My pet peave is that most of the PC unice are limited about what hardware they run on and like win95 also will not be happy with a minimal 8meg of ram. Now what has this to do with old hardware. Unix has been around for some time, some 25-30 years. It's still not the generalized platform for applications software. I find that good low cost CADD tools are non-existant and most require Xwinders which is a memory hog and yet another potentially cranky item. So until I can find a good CADD, schematic capture, PCB routing, XAble and Xilinx FPGA package for PC unice for under a few hundred $$$ MS wins. That defined the market. Allison

27 years, 8 months

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Microsci HAVAC

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< If it was 1983 then definitely try DOS 3.3. It would be REALLY COOL if < that thing turned out to be an Apple //e clone. I can't imagine what el < would be using a 6502 at around that time (besides already established < designs...most new designs were coming out with 8088's by that time and < the 6502 was thought to be an oddity of the past). This is bogus. 1983 was not the end of the line for 8bitters yet. The 8088 was still gathering steam but far from a full head. the 8bit world would have another two years or so to peak. The Franklin ACE1200 in the may'83 Microsystems is only one example. The PC may have launched in 81... but it wasn't the defacto force quite yet in 1983.. or 86. If anything I'd call that the processor wars eara with 80186, 80286, 64180, 65816, 16032, 68000 to name a few all jockying for the next better runner. While that was going on new z80 and 6502 systems were emerging that were smaller, cheaper, faster to capitalize on the existing and still growing software base. Allison

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6502 vs. 6800 (was Re: kits, definitions, prices...)

by franke＠sbs.de

> "Hans Franke" <franke(a)sbs.de> wrote: >> Yes, but as a rule, mainframes and most minis catch undefined >> opcodes in a special exeption. > That's only a 'rule' for recent machines. Most of the early ones didn't. > When IBM was developing the 1401 emulation for the 360/30, they discovered > that many customers were in fact using and dependent on undefined behaviors > of the 1401. They had to emulate a lot of things that were never documented. Now, thats what I call early. Of course you are right. I did only think back to the 60's technologie (/360 is the earlyest Mainframe system I ever programmed). > References: > _The Mythical Man Month_ by Brooks, > _Computer Architecture: Concepts and Evolution_ by Brooks and Blaauw, > _IBM's 360 and Early 370 Systems_ by Pugh, Johnson, and Palmer Thank you Hans -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

27 years, 8 months

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Microsci HAVAC

by Innfogra＠aol.com

Micro-SCI made a line of Apple II and III compatable disk drives in the early 80s. I bet they made an Apple clone wannabee. Try apple dos 3.2 or 3.2. You could have gotten a copy of that too in my whse this weekend. Micro-SCI was a division of Standum Controlls, Inc. in Santa Anna, CA. This came out of their ad in a March, 1983 Byte.

27 years, 8 months

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Sams Computerfacts

by Innfogra＠aol.com

Hi; I have just listed on ebay a group of Sams Computerfacts that I have had some interest in from people on the classic computer list. They are for: Computers - Osborne OCC1 & OCC1A, TRS-80 Models 3 and 4, Epson QX-10, Franklin Ace 1000, Atari 800XL, IBM PC & AT, AT&T 6300, Leading Edge D Monitors - IBM 5151 and 5153, Amdek Color-I and the Video-300 Printers - Okidata Microlines 82A and 92, Apple A90303, NEC PC-8023A-N, NEC PC-8025A, IBM 5152-002, Epsons MX-80 IIIF/T, FX-80, FX-100, MX-100, RX-80, FX-286e, Star Geminis 10X and 15X These can be searched for by the keyword "Computerfact" (Singular context please). I also listed a factory Toshiba T 1100 plus laptop maintenance Manual. All of these are under Computer/hardware/books. Paxton p.S. Please direct questions toi Whoagiii(a)aol.com.

27 years, 8 months

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Microsci HAVAC

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

Damn, you're right, that was the same as the early SA400's. This one isn't built nearly as solid, though, and the clamp mechanism is driven by strings(!) that run over pulleys just like an old radio tuner mechanism. Kai -----Original Message----- From: James Willing [mailto:jimw@agora.rdrop.com] Sent: Sunday, October 11, 1998 9:10 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Re: Microsci HAVAC On Sun, 11 Oct 1998, Kai Kaltenbach wrote: > This weekend I picked up this wacky little 6502 computer called the Microsci > HAVAC. Has anyone else ever seen one of these, or better yet, does anyone > have a boot disk for it? > > The HAVAC has the weirdest floppy drive I've ever seen. It has a > center-mounted clamp lever, and the head positioning is done via a > spiral-grooved disc! Well... while I am not familiar with the 'HAVAC', to find a more common use of the "spiral grooved disc" for head positioning, just look in any Apple II disk drive! (the early ones, not the 'DuoDiscs') That was the standard early Shugart 5.25 inch disk positioner mechanism. -jim --- jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174

27 years, 8 months

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auction grabs

by Innfogra＠aol.com

The IBM 4224 is a 200 to 400 CPS dot matrix printer (usually 18 pin) for use on IBM networks. It sounds like you have the Twinax interface, about 1" in diameter, screw connector, with two pin holes. It is not usable on anything but a twinax network. I bellieve that IBM made 3 versions of varieing speeds in two interfaces. The second interface is a BNC Coax for the 3270 systems. While the networks are over 10 yrs old I doubt the printer is. Paxton

27 years, 8 months

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Microsci HAVAC

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

This weekend I picked up this wacky little 6502 computer called the Microsci HAVAC. Has anyone else ever seen one of these, or better yet, does anyone have a boot disk for it? The HAVAC has the weirdest floppy drive I've ever seen. It has a center-mounted clamp lever, and the head positioning is done via a spiral-grooved disc! The machine is about 16" deep, 10" wide, 8" tall, with the floppy drive in the center front (there is no door on the drive, just a slot and the funny lever -- no eject mechanism either, just pull the disc out manually). There is a small external keyboard about 10" by 13", no numeric pad, connects via a D-sub connector. On the back of the system unit, there are serial, "printer" (parallel?), 2nd floppy, and RCA video output connectors. I fired it up, and it displayed a HAVAC logo, ROM version 1.3, then the expected "no disk" error. I examined the system board, which is dated 1983, and has a 6502 CPU. There is no info anywhere on the net about this machine, that I can find. Any info appreciated, thanks Kai

27 years, 8 months

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Microsci HAVAC

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< The HAVAC has the weirdest floppy drive I've ever seen. It has a < center-mounted clamp lever, and the head positioning is done via a < spiral-grooved disc! Sounds like the shugart sa400 series. Allison

27 years, 8 months

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dishwasher + mainboards

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< Unless I have my capacitors crossed, some dishwashing agents are < chlorine-based, and H20 <=> OH- + H+; mix a free Cl- ion in and you hav < hydrochloric acid. Which is why most are not CL- based. I thin their majik is a sodium ion. Allison

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Marketing (was Re: Columbus analogy (Was: Corrections to trivia

by mbg＠world.std.com

>First, I didn't pick the example of Microsoft. Microsoft and IBM were >held up as examples of success through marketing when this thread >started, remember? Are you using a Microsoft product? I thought so. >Now, think real hard: was Microsoft lucky to get you to use their >software? No? Did you use their software because they were determined? >No? Did they convince you to use their software by playing "Start me >up!" real loud? No? No, those running MS software are doing so mostly because MS was the only game in town way back when... not hard to be 'best' when you're the only one... also not hard to be 'worst'... Personally, I avoid MS-anything like the plague... I have a linux system which has been up for more than a week straight... running W95, I'm lucking if I *don't* have to reboot several times a day either because the system has simply crashed, or wedged itself... Megan

27 years, 8 months

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Picture up (RE: Microsci HAVAC)

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

OK, I snapped a quick shot of the HAVAC, it's not the greatest picture but it'll do :) http://www.geocities.com/~compcloset/MicrosciHavac.htm Kai -----Original Message----- From: Sam Ismail [mailto:dastar@ncal.verio.com] Sent: Sunday, October 11, 1998 6:42 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Re: Microsci HAVAC On Sun, 11 Oct 1998, Kai Kaltenbach wrote: > This weekend I picked up this wacky little 6502 computer called the Microsci > HAVAC. Has anyone else ever seen one of these, or better yet, does anyone > have a boot disk for it? Sounds neat. Can you supply us with a GIF? > The HAVAC has the weirdest floppy drive I've ever seen. It has a > center-mounted clamp lever, and the head positioning is done via a > spiral-grooved disc! The Apple Disk ][ used the same mechanism. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- Ever onward. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 09/21/98]

27 years, 8 months

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Microsci HAVAC

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>> The HAVAC has the weirdest floppy drive I've ever seen. It has a >> center-mounted clamp lever, and the head positioning is done via a >> spiral-grooved disc! >The Apple Disk ][ used the same mechanism. And they're both derivatives of the Shugart SA390. Tim.

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Corrections to trivia

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 09:51 PM 10/7/98 -0700, you wrote: >Intel came out the winners; they wanted it the most. But it would have >happened with or without them. You had the 6800, the 6502 and a whole >slew of others. The computers built around those processors were just as >relevant and would have happened anyway. I will admit up front that I don't know everything, and I am not an EE (dropped out of community college) but it seems to me that Intel hadn't won anything until ~81 when IBM came out with their PC. Until then, the Z80 and 6502 were as dominant (if not more so) than the 8080/8085? In fact, I'll go so far as to suggest that perhaps if IBM had gone with, say, the z8000, Intel would not be anywhere near as big as it is? It seems to me that what really got the "cheap computer revolution" going was the Z80 (CP/M, TRS-80, etc.) and the 6502 (Atari, Commodore, Apple II). Because no matter what the tech-heads are doing in their garages, nothing is a revolution until you can buy it at Sears. There is a similar situation with digital recording -- it's been around and available for eons, but mostly was only available to those with lots of $$$ (big studios/record companies) or tech-heads. Now, with the soundblaster/CD-R combo and some software (which, if it isn't available as shareware, I would be extremely surprised!) anyone can cut a full-digital (DDD) CD at home. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 8 months

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Marketing (was Re: Columbus analogy (Was: Corrections to trivia

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

I think that the amount of marketing necessary is related to the quality and value of the product itself. After all, if a computer is reeealy good, only a simple demonstration is necessary and it will be bought. If the product is nothing new, then $150m will be spent making it successfull. >> >> > Perhaps I'm cynical, ... >> > But I maintain that what determines the course of the industry is NOT the >> > quality of the technology, but the marketing. How else do you explain >> > the successes of IBM, MS, etc.? Surely not due to their superior >> > quality?!? >> >> No, not the "M" word! We just had a "marketing" thread and the term was >> tossed around like it was this magical thing that was responsible for >> everything that couldn't be explained by technical merit. > >It doesn't explain everything, but you'd be a fool to think marketing is >not responsible for at least 50% of a product's success (and that's being >conservative). > >> First of all, IBM can hardly be called successful. *In spite* of all the >> "marketing" they did, Taiwanese with no marketing at all were able to >> completely erode their PC market share. > >Let me get this straight...you're saying IBM can hardly be called >successful? This must be a typo. > I have seen several who think IBM is a failure. Once, I was at a computer store with another person, getting a computer repaired. THe other person asked the tech 'So, do you think Apple will survive?' The answer was quick: 'Sure, IBM survived, didn't it?' I asked her what she meant. She said, 'Well, their entire PS/2 line was killed off'. For one thing, the PS/2 shows that with great marketing and technology, a product can still fail. Secondly, it would appear that in most people's minds, everything before the PC is a haze. >where they did today. > >Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Ever onward. > > Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 > See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! > [Last web site update: 09/21/98] > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 8 months

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Columbus analogy (Was: Corrections to trivia

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

> >> < So, is Columbus less important because the Vikings reached the Americas >> < before him? Or is it only important that most of the lasting effects >> < descend from Columbus? > >Columbus is a superb analogy for this thread! Not that the results >necessarily match, but that MANY related issues are also present. > >Columbus is the "canonical" discoverer, in spite of the Vikings, or even >the previously existing "colonists" who had been living there for a LONG >time ever since coming over the Bering straits? Well, that 'canonicity' of this is beginning to change. >Likewise, the Intel 4004 is the "canonical" first microprocessor, in >spite of other previous units that might or might not meet various >definitions. Unlike the columbus question, most people neither know nor care who made the first microprocessor or what serial number it was. Just about every m.p. is considered first by _someone_. >> . . . >> Better put, the vikings were here. Columbus told the world two things, >> it's not flat and there are great riches in the east. Somewhere in ther >> is the difference in those explorations goals. > >Since FEW have ever heard anything about this other than TOTAL BS in school, >it bears looking at some of the distortions. What is taught in school is >even less accurate than would be a history of computers by MS, IBM, >Intel, or Apple. In line with the use of it as an analogy, it is useful >to look at how distorted it has become, and realize that the same thing >happens quite quickly in fields such as ours. It happens in all fields. It will always happen. We're doing it now. There is nothing new under the sun. >but quite costly. > >Columbus did NOT tell the world that it wasn't flat. By the time of >Columbus, that was well known and accepted by all educated people. The >only ones who still thought that it was flat are now paying dollars per >minute for telephone psychic readings. Although there were some fears of >dangers, sailing off the edge was NOT taken seriously as a possibility by >anybody with any education. As a matter of fact, the Romans knew that the world was round. The knowledge was lost for about 8 centuries. >it was just too far going that way. Even the diameter and circumference >of the earth had been reasonably accurately computed (showing that the >shortest route to the Indies was still to the east). > >But Columbus had an inaccurate, wrong, crackpot theory that the earth was >about one third the size that had been calculated. Thus, he was convinced >that it WOULD be shorter going west. There are a lot of other issues >involved with his funding, etc. Never knew that. All progress is made by unreasonable men... >He set off, and lo and behold, encountered land somewhere near to where >the Indies would have been if he had been right about his 1/3 size theory. > >BTW, his very first recorded words about the existing inhabitants were: >"a good source for slaves". > >> An aside to this is while Intel is currently the apparent successful >> leader en masse we still don't know how it will play over time yet to >> come. There have been near reversals in the past and it would only take >> the next design leap to change the current course. Also the industry is >> only 30 years old in a century where we are still developing fundemental >> technologies. > >Perhaps I'm cynical, ... >But I maintain that what determines the course of the industry is NOT the >quality of the technology, but the marketing. How else do you explain >the successes of IBM, MS, etc.? Surely not due to their superior >quality?!? Well, IBM really had very little competition. DEC and Data General were quite successful too. But, since IBM was already around making typewriters and card punchers, it was already firmly established in the market. Did NCR ever venture into mainframes and minis, BTW? I have seen a nicely designed AT clone of theirs. > >And progressive improvement in hardware ... Only among people who submit to marketing and not quality. >Fred Cisin cisin(a)xenosoft.com >XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com >2210 Sixth St. (510) 644-9366 >Berkeley, CA 94710-2219 > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 8 months

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RQDX2 & 3 jumpers

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Oct 11, 10:46, Zane H. Healy wrote: > Subject: Re: RQDX2 & 3 jumpers > Bruce Lane spoke: > > I've posted jumper and cabling details of the RQDX2 and RQDX3 to my web > Great! This answers some of my questions. Now to show what an ingrate I > am, does anyone have any info on the following jumpers: > > W12..W17 These set the starting "logical unit number" for board, as a binary number (W12=LSB, W17+MSB). If you have multiple RQDXn boards, you'd typcally set the second card to start with LUN 4, the third with LUN 8, etc. Jumper out = 0, jumper in = 1. > W23 -- I think this is for what kind of cabinet that the card is in. No, it controls the HEADSEL 3 and REDUCWRTI signals. W23 has 4 posts numbeerd 1..4. Factory setting is 1-2 jumpered on early firmware, 1-2 and 3-4 for version 2 firmware (ROMs 23-243E5/23-244E5) or later. Alternatively, you can jumper 2-3, which has the effect of connecting HEADSEL 3 to pin 9 of J1, and REDUCWRTI to pin 22. That allows you to use hard drives with more than 8 heads. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

27 years, 8 months

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SCO Unix (Older version)

by kyrrin＠jps.net

FWIW, I've listed an older version of SCO Unix up on Haggle. The URL is: http://www.haggle.com/cgi/getitem.cgi?id=201787290 Caveat emptor! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin(a)jps.net) (Web: http://table.jps.net/~kyrrin) SysOp: The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272, 253-639-9905) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."

27 years, 8 months

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RQDX2 & 3 jumpers

by kyrrin＠jps.net

I've posted jumper and cabling details of the RQDX2 and RQDX3 to my web site. With apologies for the lousy navigational interface (no Next/Previous keying yet), anyone who needs to can find it at: http://table.jps.net/~kyrrin Follow the link tagged 'TechLinks' and scroll down near the bottom of the page. The info is in multiple .GIF files. Enjoy! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin(a)jps.net) (Web: http://table.jps.net/~kyrrin) SysOp: The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272, 253-639-9905) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."

27 years, 8 months

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dishwasher + mainboards

by jim＠calico.litterbox.com

A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 765 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19981010/4a2be701/at…

27 years, 8 months

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dishwasher + mainboards

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Okay, I just ran the mainboard to my 64 through the dishwasher. Does an < know what the material between the metal noise shield and the board is, < why it expanded during dishwashing? And if it will shrink again as it < cools and dries? I didn't run the thing through the dry cycle either. Fishpaper as some call it. It's a thick stiff paper put ther to prevent shorts. If you put it in with the shield in place you will have to remove it and dry it, maybe replacing the paper. A useable replacement is manila (72 or144lb card stock). < It is VERY clean... :) You still have to dry it out well! Allison

27 years, 8 months

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MAC Portables (The BIG ones)

by jeff.kaneko＠juno.com

Guys: Are there any of you out there looking for these beasts? I know somebody who's got a 5120 and a 5126. He's asking $50 each (too high in my opinion), but the price ought to be negotiable. I know he also has at least one power brick, and an NOS portable battery charger (M0275). Send me personal e-mail if there is any interest. Jeff ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

27 years, 8 months

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FW: FREE HP3000

by cfandt＠netsync.net

Just passing this on.... Reply to the fellow who wrote the orig. NG message! Found this in comp.sys.hp.hardware: >From: Alec Gagne <alec(a)eclipsesystems.com> >Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp.mpe,comp.sys.hp.hardware,comp.sys.hp >Subject: FREE HP3000 >Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 01:14:27 -0700 > >Free, to a good home! > > HP3000 Series 37 Mini Computer > Series 37 CPU > 1 Meg RAM > 7 Ports (6 ATP and 1 ADCC) > 2 HP7945 55 MB Disk Drives > 3 HPIB cables > 1 HP9144 1/4 inch Tape Drive w/about 10 tapes. > 1 HP Cabinet with internal rails > 1 HP2392A 14 inch Terminal & Keyboard > > ( About the size of a Full Tower PC but twice as thick ) > >The machine loads to MPE V-Delta-5 (Version G.B3.05) operating system >I have the an original OS load tape. > >Everything is in GOOD condition, and it runs! I used it as a >development machine for writing COBOL code up until last year. > >I tried to sell it, but nobody was interested. The computer junk >dealers will "take it off my hands" for scrap. I would rather give >it away to someone/anyone who needs it/wants it or just wants to >learn about it, than have it scapped for parts. > >The only loop hole is you have to come pick it up. It is heavy and >expensive to ship, and I don't particularly want to haul it down to >the UPS office. > >I am in San Jose California. >First come first serve, limited quantity (1). > > >Regards > >Alec > > >-- >-------------------------------------------------------------------- > Eclipse Systems -- Business & Public Sector Solutions Since 1989 > P.O. Box 53435 San Jose, California 95153 USA (408) 362-1651 > http://www.eclipsesystems.com > > Provider of CrimeStar -- http://www.CrimeStar.net >-------------------------------------------------------------------- Happy HP collecting! --Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt(a)netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/

27 years, 8 months

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Fairchild Channel F (was: Re: Corrections to trivia)

by fauradon＠pclink.com

Hi I could pick one up for you if you want, there's on that has been around a thrift store here for some time now. They want $25 for it but I can negotiate. Francois ------------------------------------------------------------- Visit the desperately in need of update Sanctuary at: http://www.pclink.com/fauradon >Speaking of which... how common are the Channel Fs? I picked up several >cartridges for one some time ago, but I've never seen the actual unit. >I've only seen ads for them in old magazines. > >-- >Doug Spence >ds_spenc(a)alcor.concordia.ca >http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ > >

27 years, 8 months

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Corrections to trivia

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< > Micral, Mark-8, Scelbi 8H were the first wave. I don't know of any 40 < > micros other than the MCS-4, but I doubt it was especially cheap or wi < > available compared to some of the others, and compared especially to t < > computers that came before. < < Ok, I can add the Kenbak-1 to your list and it would be just as irreleva < as the three you just listed. You just named three computers that barel Ok then how about mords/modules manufactured and sold with 8008s on them like the Control Logic L series (there weren't the only ones) for use in industrial controls. Their cost was not that far off the mark when compared to an altair with 4k and a PIO. < We would have had microprocessor-based computers on our desktop today. < The trend was definitely heading in that direction. Intel merely was i < the right place at the right time. There still would have been a Lee < Felsenstein, a Steve Wozniak and a Ray Holt. And a slew of others. Altair was not a big bang, it was however a marker or milestone that had to happen if not to MITS then some one else. I would also contend that if at least two other vendors didn't jump on S100 in less than 6 months the Altair would be far more obscure. < I'm not saying it could have, I'm saying it WAS and IS. The F14 CADC < happened (independently and prior to the 4004). That is a fact. The < AMI7200 and AMI7300 happened. That is a fact. Several other < microprocessors from several other companies happened. That is a fact. < Even if Intel had never existed, we STILL would have had the microcomput < revolution of around 1975, and today we would have microprocessor-based < computers on our desks and in our pockets. To speculate otherwise woul < be absurd. The CADC itself was of little direct impact as we never saw it. The processing, design steps and process experience however were critical to whoever made them as they gained valuable foundry experience and could apply that to the next product. Also, since Ray Holt didn't do it alone there wer a slew of people that also gained experience they could apply to thing like calculator chips and maybe even the 4004. This makes it easier to create the next product and also possible to do it less expensively. < them. I don't have the Nina, the Pinta or the Santa Maria in my < collection, so Columbus never "discovered America". I don't have an Technically he didn't. He discoverd the Caribian islands. BUT, by not falling off the flat earth and finding something out there others would come and actually touch the Amrican contenents. < Apollo rocket in my collection, so America never made it to the moon. Still, it's possible to go and see one. FYI: the rocket was Saturn, the command module was known as Apollo . < You seem to have this idea that Intel deliberately acted to create the < microcomputer industry, that they had this grand master scheme that woul < culminate in the Altair 8800. This is simply not the case. Intel did < provide training and support to companies to use the 4004 in their < applications, but where is your evidence that they knew this would lead < cheap computers? Their advert in November 1971 electronic news. A quote: A micro-programable computer on a chip! Intel Introduced an integreated CPU complete with a 4-but parallel adder, sixteen 4-bit registers, an accumulator and a push down stack on one chip. It is one of a family of four new ICs which comprize the MCS-4 Micro computer system - the first system to bring you the power and flexibility of a dedicate general-purpose computer at low cost in as few as two dual in-line packages. Seems they were aimed squarely at the low cost market. They would introduce the 8008 and 8080 in the same ways. < The 4004 was just the first in the succession of many microprocessors fr < many manufacturers. Why did the Mark-8 and Scelbi 8H designers choose t < 8008? Who knows. What compelling evidence do you have that shows Inte < intended for the 8008 to end up in those computers? An equally importan < question is what computers did the other microprocessors being develope < at the time end up in? They had to have gone into something. Just < because you don't have those in your collection, does not mean they wer < not built. Likely for the same reson I used the 8008 the first time. Intel was visible and advertized. When I helped pick the 8008 in late '72 I could point to a working board (MCS-8) and docs to help us newbies. We used what we knew about and at 200$US each they weren't cheap at all but it was better than 200 pieces of TTL that had to be wired and tested. So the Mark-8 Etal had the precedence of visible advertizing, Docs and availability. An aside , the docs part was not lost on moto! You could get the 6800 cheap enough and for 25$ more you could get a thick volume of hardware and software knowlege that made using it easy. < What I'm trying to say is that this revolution would have happened with < without Intel, and assigning them all the credit for creating this < industry, or making it possible, or even influencing it is credit not < entirely deserved. What is missed and not mentioned is the small details. INTEL created the 4004 becuase they didn't want another fixed function calculator chip for only one vendor. This ment they could mass make it and sell to everyone with higher profit. The 4004 was significant as it had a hardware return address stack. There are things there that did seperate the micro computers that would result from the minicomputers that were before. < > importance of the 4004. LSI was just a means to an end: cheap compute < > How much did the F14's computer cost, BTW? < < I want to say less than $100 per computer but I think it was actually le < than $100 per chip. Still, that would put it at $600 at the most for th < whole system (6 chips total in the F14 CADC). Some perspective... in mil spec design, construction and testing made it likely several thousand $$$. Even if it were 10k$ per it was cheap compared to available processors of the time and none fit in that form factor. Also the 4004 was *relatively* cheap but the amortized development cost were still significant and have to be include to be fair. < > 4004 was the Big Bang; that the dust from that explosion still bears t < > Intel imprint is interesting, but that's a different topic. < < And I am still arguing that the 4004 was NOT the big bang. I don't wan < to put my thumb (at this point) on which Intel product it was. But it m < not in fact even be an Intel product. It very well may be a combinatio < of products from multiple vendors. I haven't seen any conclusive < arguments to support the 4004 as being the big bang that started the < microcomputer revolution. It was a pop, just like the CADC was a pop. I'd say there is some reality there. The big bangs were those that would hit the media and cause ripples down the line. Using that line of thought... the CPU chip was not the big bang but the catalyst for the explosion. IE: Altair was not significant due to the 8080 but that it was first of class and more importantly COPIED. Name one other machine/bus before ALTAIR that would be copied widely and competitively within one year of introduction!?! I will add that I doubt Intel saw it as a serious opportunity to sell chips until after the Pop'tronics cover hit the stands. Reason it would be little while before the hobby (we were called that) market would be taken seriously and semiconductor vendors would see the potential of the early edge of the personal computer/ small desktop computer industry. That got DEC, IBM and DGs attention though none were sure of what to make of it. The fact of it was by 1978 there was no question that there wer more microcomputers (or various types) than all of IBM, DEC and DGs output to date! It was the Volkswagons of the computer industry. Tin Lizzie, Ha! Allison

27 years, 8 months

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Vaporware (and not) from '83 CES

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

New computers announced at the 1983 CES: Vaporware? Please respond if you KNOW any of these exist for SURE. - Panasonic JR-200 (I think this may exist) - Sanyo PCH20/PHC25 (Z80, 4K/16K, $99/$199) - STM Pied Piper (CP/M portable, 64K, $1295) - TI 99/2 (Supposedly $100, including 4.2K RAM) - TI CC-40 (Compact Computer 40, laptop like Epson HX-20, 4 AA cells, 31 character LCD display, $249) - Unisonic Futura 8300 (Z80, 2K, Sinclair BASIC, $90) - Video Technology VZ200 (Z80, 4K, MS BASIC, $99) Not Vaporware - Jupiter Ace - Mattel Aquarius - Spectravideo SV-318 - Timex Sinclair 2000 By the way, has anyone actually seen an TI 99/4 (not 4a)? Kai

27 years, 8 months

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