November 2007 - test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

by quapla＠xs4all.nl

Hello all, This may be somewhat off topic, but it certainly is a serious request. A little history first. About a year ago, I got a call from a company close where I live and asked me if I was interested in some old DEC documentation. I collected about an office cupboard full of usefull and less usefull material. Since July this year I work for them, and they now know me and what my hobby is (PDP-11's). I just got a call from the head of the repair dept (they repair a lot of weird things, including old DEC stuff). Basically he told me that management is considering to get rid of most of the older technical documentation archive. I have seen this archive, and it is about 100 meters of documentation, not only DEC stuff, but also some Sun Microsystems, HP and Dell material. Some of the manuals are available in several revisions, some not. All in all about 40 office cupboards in total....... One of the options is just to get rid of it, but another option is more favoured, which is to find a company or someone willing to scan it in. There is a budget, and one very likely possibility is to make the scanned material available for everyone except maybe those documents which are still considered valuable by the respective owner of this docu. So, now I'm looking for leads to individuals or organisation who have the capacity to scan this amount of material in and convert it into PDF formatted documents. If you have any lead or info, please contact me off-list. Thanks, Ed

17 years, 5 months

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Timex-Sinclair 1000 with chiclet keyboard

by sellam＠vintagetech.com

I found the oddest thing over at my friend James' ACCRC (Alameda County Computer Resource Center) operation. Walking through his office I spotted a Timex-Sinclair 1000. But this was no ordinary TS1000. Instead of a membrane keyboard (i.e. the flat, plastic piece of shit) it had a chiclet keyboard (i.e. the rubberized, raised key type). I have never seen this before. It seems to be an aftermarket add-on. It has an adhesive on the bottom perimeter that sticks over the original membrane keyboard. On the bottom of each key are circular pads that press against the membrane key when the chiclet key is depressed. It's pretty damn cool. Has anyone else ever seen one of these before? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ]

17 years, 5 months

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more OT sorry: anyone own a Stylistic 1000?

by chrism3667＠yahoo.com

e-mail me thanks ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

17 years, 5 months

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"Barn" finds - Victor 9000, Rex Microcomputer and Intersil DevelopmentSystem

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: "Barn" finds - Victor 9000, Rex Microcomputer and Intersil DevelopmentSystem > From: JP Hindin <jplist2007 at kiwigeek.com> > Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 10:03:04 -0600 (CST) > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org Snippage>>>>> > >The next is a 'Rex Microcomputer System', model REX-1032, "Manufactured by >Realistic Controls Corporation of Davenport, Iowa". I'm guessing this is a >kit computer that's been put together by this local company, but "Rex >Micrcomputer" gets me nothing via google and breaking it down gives me >screeds of irrelevancies. The machine has a Z80 microprocessor, although >it might have another (ala Rainbow) and I just haven't dug far enough. REX was late like 1979 to early 80s not later than 1985 time frame. They were not seen around my travels and I wondered if they were really vaporware. It's a Z80 CP/M crate. More like Robin not Rainbow. >The last is quite a beasty, weighing plenty thanks to its significantly >hefty linear power supply. Intersil Development System, ISB 80DS 3020-120. >Got six apparently serial ports on the back with what I think is a console >cable hanging out one side. What I like best is the socket mounted in the >front plate for reading/writing 24 pin DIP chips. Two 8" drives with >diskettes in them, God only knows if they're still good after sitting out >for this long. Likely a 6100 (PDP-8 in cmos) powered deveopment system though they sold 1802, 80c85 and 80C88 too. With some TLC they sould still run if rust or corrosion are not evident. Allison

17 years, 5 months

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dying DSHD 3.5" floppies

by compoobah＠valleyimplants.com

Whilst going through my box to separate the wheat from the chaff in the 3.5" DSHD diskette department I remembered a tip from ages ago, and durned if it didn't work. Shake the diskette and put it back in the drive. Sounds silly, but it does work sometimes.

17 years, 5 months

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Variations on Commodore monitors

by chaosotter76＠gmail.com

As part of the process of getting a second C128 system set up and running, I recently ordered another Commodore 1084 monitor from an eBay seller. The one I have is nice and bright and lets me switch quickly between the composite (40-column) and RGBI (80-column) outputs of the 128, so I was happy to stumble across another one for a reasonable price. It arrived last night, and it's a great little monitor, in even better shape than the one I already had. To my surprise, though, it's also completely different. The case is different, the form factor and positioning of the controls are different -- and, most relevantly, even the connectors are different. My older one (made in 1989) has a DB-9 input for RGBI input. The new arrival (made in 1988, if I recall correctly) has an 8-pin DIN input for RGBI input. Thankfully, I already had a DB-9 to DIN-8 cable in the Big Box of CBM Scraps, so I didn't have to order any cable-making parts from Mouser, but it does bring up a question: how many potentially problematic variations on the same model number did Commodore make? I know that they did a lot of this sort of thing, given the ever-changing appearance of the C2N and 1541, but is there a quick and easy question I can ask a seller to find out exactly what ports to expect on the back of a 1084 (or similar monitor)? "DB-9" and "8-pin DIN" are already way too difficult to explain to somebody just trying to clean out their attack, but if there's a guide out there with a breakdown by manufacturing date or serial number for some of this Commodore equipment, that would be lovely...

17 years, 5 months

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Speaking of multiple processors...

by dm561＠torfree.net

---------Original Messages: Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 08:57:12 -0500 From: Allison <ajp166 at bellatlantic.net> Subject: Re: Speaking of multiple processors... > From: M H Stein <dm561 at torfree.net> > Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2007 11:29:05 -0500 >Cromemco also had Z80s on their I/O processor boards, and when the later 680x0 >CPU boards dropped the Z80 you could still run your Z80 programs on the I/O card. > >mike This is not uncommon. H89 had two, one for the terminal and the other was the processor for the computer. My NS*Horizon had two when I added the Teletek HDC(hard disk) as that has a local z80. When I added a smart FDC of my own design and later smart printer spooler and other IO with local cpu the nuber fo cpus grew. The Compupro system can easily have three, ZPB, Their mux board and any of the hard disk controllers. I have one that has 68000, 8085 and Z80 (maincpu, mux and Disk3). It's something that isn't unusual as it would seem. Allison ----------Reply: Well, I didn't say or imply that dual-CPUs like Cromemco's DPU and XPU or intelligent I/O co-processors like their IOP and Octart were uncommon; in fact I was just adding Cromemco to the list under discussion which ranged >from CDC big iron down to C-64s, and both C-64s and Cromemcos could easily have 4 or 5 CPUs talking to each other one way or another. But now that you mention it, I did think what Cromemco did when their XXU 68010/20 CPU board finally dropped the Z80 _was_ a little unusual; although the Z80 was gone from the processor board, your Z-80 CDOS or CP/M application could still use the Z80 on the existing I/O board when it wasn't handling I/O traffic. Did anyone else run *application* programs like a word processor or spreadsheet (as opposed to applications like the C-64's disk utilities) on an I/O co-processor board? And that's not quite the same either as e.g. an Apple or the SuperPet, which effectively just used the main system as console and memory for an *added* co-processor. Admittedly, at some point the distinctions do get a little blurred. m

17 years, 5 months

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cctalk Digest, Vol 51, Issue 53

by dm561＠torfree.net

Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 22:38:20 -0000 From: "Jim Attfield" <james at attfield.co.uk> Subject: Re: Speaking of multiple processors... <snip> >Absolutey. I have a couple of IOP cards here complete with Z-80, Z80-SIO and >firmware - very nice cards. <snip> >Jim -------- And 16K of RAM; also, that firmware is actually a monitor program which you can access from either side (you can use a terminal on the 'output' side or use the IOPEX program to turn the main computer into a "terminal" talking to the monitor over the S100 bus), and play around in the IOP's memory etc.) Essentially a small SBC in its own right. m

17 years, 5 months

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NorthStar disks

by dm561＠torfree.net

20 HS North Star disks in binder on eBay, item # 140179267172 (nothing to do with me)

17 years, 5 months

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BBC coverage: Colossus vs. Modern hardware

by cclist＠sydex.com

Here's an interesting little segment I just heard on the Beeb about the Colossus reconstruction at Bletchley Park: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7094881.stm Cheers, Chuck

17 years, 5 months

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Speaking of multiple processors...

by james＠attfield.co.uk

> Message: 24 > Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 08:57:12 -0500 > From: Allison <ajp166 at bellatlantic.net> > Subject: Re: Speaking of multiple processors... > To: cctech at classiccmp.org > Message-ID: <0JRL00BZ4QQMNPW2 at vms042.mailsrvcs.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > >Cromemco also had Z80s on their I/O processor boards, and when > the later 680x0 > >CPU boards dropped the Z80 you could still run your Z80 programs > on the I/O card. > > > >mike > > This is not uncommon. > > H89 had two, one for the terminal and the other was the processor for > the computer. > > My NS*Horizon had two when I added the Teletek HDC(hard disk) as that > has a local z80. When I added a smart FDC of my own design and later > smart printer spooler and other IO with local cpu the nuber fo cpus grew. > > The Compupro system can easily have three, ZPB, Their mux board and > any of the hard disk controllers. I have one that has 68000, 8085 and > Z80 (maincpu, mux and Disk3). > > It's something that isn't unusual as it would seem. > > Allison Absolutey. I have a couple of IOP cards here complete with Z-80, Z80-SIO and firmware - very nice cards. Further, way back in the early '80s the Comart Communicator had an intelligent FDC sporting a Z-80 - formatting was just a matter of setting up the command and executing asynchronously, the host CPU could then go off and do something else. This was way ahead of the common-or-garden FDC's of the time, even Cromemco's FDC's at the time. A much under-rated system... Jim

17 years, 5 months

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Speaking of multiple processors...

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: Speaking of multiple processors... > From: M H Stein <dm561 at torfree.net> > Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 14:30:25 -0500 > To: "'cctalk at classiccmp.org'" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >---------Original Messages: >Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 08:57:12 -0500 >From: Allison <ajp166 at bellatlantic.net> >Subject: Re: Speaking of multiple processors... > >> From: M H Stein <dm561 at torfree.net> >> Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2007 11:29:05 -0500 > >>Cromemco also had Z80s on their I/O processor boards, and when the later 680x0 >>CPU boards dropped the Z80 you could still run your Z80 programs on the I/O card. >> >>mike > >This is not uncommon. > >H89 had two, one for the terminal and the other was the processor for >the computer. > >My NS*Horizon had two when I added the Teletek HDC(hard disk) as that >has a local z80. When I added a smart FDC of my own design and later >smart printer spooler and other IO with local cpu the nuber fo cpus grew. > >The Compupro system can easily have three, ZPB, Their mux board and >any of the hard disk controllers. I have one that has 68000, 8085 and >Z80 (maincpu, mux and Disk3). > >It's something that isn't unusual as it would seem. > >Allison > >----------Reply: >Well, I didn't say or imply that dual-CPUs like Cromemco's DPU and XPU or >intelligent I/O co-processors like their IOP and Octart were uncommon; in >fact I was just adding Cromemco to the list under discussion which ranged >from CDC big iron down to C-64s, and both C-64s and Cromemcos could >easily have 4 or 5 CPUs talking to each other one way or another. They were not alone doing that. >But now that you mention it, I did think what Cromemco did when their XXU >68010/20 CPU board finally dropped the Z80 _was_ a little unusual; although >the Z80 was gone from the processor board, your Z-80 CDOS or CP/M >application could still use the Z80 on the existing I/O board when it wasn't >handling I/O traffic. Did anyone else run *application* programs like a word >processor or spreadsheet (as opposed to applications like the C-64's disk >utilities) on an I/O co-processor board? I guess it could. Never messed with Cromemco but they had nice hardware. >And that's not quite the same either as e.g. an Apple or the SuperPet, which >effectively just used the main system as console and memory for an *added* >co-processor. > >Admittedly, at some point the distinctions do get a little blurred. Way fuzzy. Allison >m

17 years, 5 months

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New acquisitions (PDP 11/40 DecDataSystem and 11/10)

by wacarder＠earthlink.net

This morning I moved some newly acquired PDP-11 items into my shop. Among the items were a beautiful PDP-11/40 DecDataSystem in a yellow / red color scheme along with a TU10, PC05, and RK05F, another standard PDP-11/40, a PDP-11/10 with a Laboratory Peripheral System, RX01, and TU60 DecCassette unit, and a pieces parts PDP-11/20. Also included in this shipment was an LA36 DecWriter II that has a phone handset modem unit. You can check out some pictures at: http://www.woffordwitch.com/PDP1140-DecDataSystem.asp http://www.woffordwitch.com/PDP1140-FourthOne.asp http://www.woffordwitch.com/PDP1110-2.asp http://www.woffordwitch.com/LPS-11.asp I have not done anything with these items besides move them into my shop. The 11/20 is in pieces in a box, and I have not evaluated the completeness of it yet. I did see the toggle switch front panel, but do not see the plexi that goes with it. I have the CPU box, but some boards are loose in another box. I need to take inventory to see exactly what I have. Ashley Carder http://www.woffordwitch.com

17 years, 5 months

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dovebid: Onyx2 Reality Monster (Hazelwood, MO)

by legalize＠xmission.com

<http://www.dovebid.com/assets/display.asp?ItemID=cse2741> -- "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download <http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/download/index.html> Legalize Adulthood! <http://blogs.xmission.com/legalize/>

17 years, 5 months

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Need HP75 Manual

by silent700＠gmail.com

Hi all - wondering if anyone has a scan of the manual for the HP75 portable computer. If not, I'd like to talk to anyone that has operated theirs with the card reader and can give me some help re: the command syntax? I've finally gotten a power supply for mine (thanks to the big junkpile at VCF!) and I have a whole stack of magstrips and no idea how to read them. I found a page with partial docs that allowed me to catalog a strip, but that's where I'm stuck. Thanks in advance -j -- silent700.blogspot.com Retrocomputing and collecting in the Chicago area: http://chiclassiccomp.org

17 years, 5 months

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PDP by the pound

by tponsford＠rnsmte.com

HI All A friend mentioned to me he saw what looked to be some DEC equipment at a local scrap yard. Looking through the scrap I saw a really sad looking rack with some RA81 and 82's. They looked too damaged and too hard to dig out, but as I was leaving, out of the corner of my eye, I spied another "buried" cabinet with 8" floppy drives. Curiosity got the best of me and a closer look the cabinet said KEVEX 1600. The floppies looked to be in good condition so I removed the cover plate and lo and behold, a Qbus 11/03 greeted me! I yanked the third-party qbus chassis out and also the *" drive cabinet, which turned out to be a DSD 210! The scrap yard charged me by the pound, around $20! Cheers Tom Ponsford

17 years, 5 months

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Fwd: 1979 CGI on PDP-11/70 w/Tektronix 4014

by legalize＠xmission.com

>From a friend of mine from Project DELTA. Watching Ralph do his thing with the Tektronix terminal is what kept me interested in programming and made me want to study computer graphics. Hi Guys, I finally got around to having some old Super-8 movies converted to QuickTime, and then posted them to YouTube. These show some wireframe computer graphics I developed in high school thanks to project Delta. A bit crude but bear in mind that it's 1979 and I didn't refer to any literature and wrote it all in Basic+2 spaghetti code ;-) Graphics shot directly from Tektronix display (stop-motion used to get animation effect) using high-speed B&W film. Note many of the scenes are stereoscopic: if you have a viewer you'll see the stereoscopic image or if you cross your eyes you will see the image with reverse perspective. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ue4Yo_a34XM Music video for Pink Floyd's "Welcome to the Machine". This is primarily pastel on paper, but there is a portion in the middle using printouts from the Tektronix display which I colorized by holding a match under the paper. There's also a shot of a Beehive (?) terminal at the end running a rasterized Game of Life. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAfK1rL9fCw -Ralph -- Ralph Gonzalez ralphgonz at gmail.com -- "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download <http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/download/index.html> Legalize Adulthood! <http://blogs.xmission.com/legalize/>

17 years, 5 months

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Tarbell is making me insane

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: Tarbell is making me insane > From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) > Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2007 20:50:34 +0000 (GMT) > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > >> >This faster signal might be better for the disk drive? >> >> Potentially. Remember FM floppy recording was passe' by the early >> 80s with every one needed far greater space. It want even a >> consideration buy time PC 3.5" floppies hit the street. > >As I understand it, FM at 125bps has (only) pulse spacings that can occur >in MFM at 250kbps. The latter has some other spacing too, of course, but >the point is that unless you're trying to be awkward, it's impossible to >make a drive that will correctly handle any MFM data at 250kbps that will >not also correctly handle FM data at 125kbps. (About the only way you >could do it is if the drive tries to decode the data back to user bytes >and then re-encodes them onto the disk in a totally different way. I know >of know floppy drive that ever tried something like that!). > >There should be no problem at all in using a 3.5" DD floppy drive with >the FM data stream that uou'd have sent to an SA400. Doesn't completely work that way. If it were bandwidth only maybe. The problem is it's timing and that causes peak shifts that increase with jamming those bits in a more confined space (flux tranistions per inch) and that makes 3.5" track 000 an approximation of SA400L track 41ish. That doesnt' factor the lower S/S+N ratio of 135 tpi against 48TPI. Will it work, I may but if it doesn't work well it may not be broken. Reason is the DD FDCs (both 765 and 1793/2793) have additional hardware to add a timing shift based on pattern written and better feature extraction for read. This is not present on 1771 based boards. Allison >-tony

17 years, 5 months

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Speaking of multiple processors...

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: Speaking of multiple processors... > From: M H Stein <dm561 at torfree.net> > Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2007 11:29:05 -0500 > To: "'cctalk at classiccmp.org'" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >-----------Original Message: >Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2007 08:32:02 +0000 >From: Gordon JC Pearce <gordonjcp at gjcp.net> >Subject: Re: Speaking of multiple processors... > >On Thu, 2007-11-15 at 00:32 -0500, Roy J. Tellason wrote: >> Didn't that "Superbrain" computer use a couple of Z80 chips in there? IIRC, >> one was the "main" CPU and the other one handled I/O tasks of some sort >> (disk?). ><snip> > >It does. I believe one handles disk accesses, while the other does the >rest. Once I get mine working, I'll tell you more.<snip> > >Gordon > >----------Reply: >Cromemco also had Z80s on their I/O processor boards, and when the later 680x0 >CPU boards dropped the Z80 you could still run your Z80 programs on the I/O card. > >mike This is not uncommon. H89 had two, one for the terminal and the other was the processor for the computer. My NS*Horizon had two when I added the Teletek HDC(hard disk) as that has a local z80. When I added a smart FDC of my own design and later smart printer spooler and other IO with local cpu the nuber fo cpus grew. The Compupro system can easily have three, ZPB, Their mux board and any of the hard disk controllers. I have one that has 68000, 8085 and Z80 (maincpu, mux and Disk3). It's something that isn't unusual as it would seem. Allison

17 years, 5 months

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BBC coverage: Colossus vs. Modern hardware

by rdawson16＠hotmail.com

> Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2007 19:14:48 -0500 > From: wdonzelli at gmail.com > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: BBC coverage: Colossus vs. Modern hardware > > > AFAIK there's no transmission equipment as part of the SZ42 itself though, so > > something would still need to be hooked between that and a giant aerial in > > order to do the transmission; I think it was this bit that Will was interested in. > > No, I am interested in the thing that modulates the bitstream, before > the transmitter. The modem, basically, not the transmitter. > > -- > Will Will, I did some fairly bizarre modem design for a downhole well logging camera, transmitting power and digital video over 5 miles of coax. I can probably answer any modulation questions you may have, or point you to the literature I used in my research and design. Randy _________________________________________________________________ Peek-a-boo FREE Tricks & Treats for You! http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us

17 years, 5 months

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Colossus code-breaking again (Jules Richardson)

by mike＠brickfieldspark.org

> Nice article up on the BBC news website about the Cipher Challenge that's > going on today: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7094881.stm > ... I've not been involved in that side of things, but it's been > interesting > watching Tony and his crew running around the last few weeks trying to get > everything put together (there was a huge amount to do on the > reception/intercept side of things in particular) > Saw that on BBC 1 news last night, would have liked a bit more info but at least they actually covered it on national news. Do we know how the test went and who gor there first, BBC quoting them at finishing about the same time. Mike.

17 years, 5 months

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Heathkit 89 in Seattle

by tosteve＠yahoo.com

Do not contact me, contact Patrick below: ------------------------- I have a heathkit I think H89, not sure how to tell. Should I dump it or is it worth something to someone? If so feel free to contact me. Patrick Seattle WA p_miceli at hotmail.com --------------------------------- Be a better sports nut! Let your teams follow you with Yahoo Mobile. Try it now.

17 years, 5 months

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BBC coverage: Colossus vs. Modern hardware

by rdawson16＠hotmail.com

> Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2007 19:14:48 -0500 > From: wdonzelli at gmail.com > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: BBC coverage: Colossus vs. Modern hardware > > > AFAIK there's no transmission equipment as part of the SZ42 itself though, so > > something would still need to be hooked between that and a giant aerial in > > order to do the transmission; I think it was this bit that Will was interested in. > > No, I am interested in the thing that modulates the bitstream, before > the transmitter. The modem, basically, not the transmitter. > > -- > Will Will, I did some fairly bizarre modem design for a downhole well logging camera, transmitting power and digital video over 5 miles of coax. I can probably answer any modulation questions you may have, or point you to the literature I used in my research and design. Randy _________________________________________________________________ Boo!?Scare away worms, viruses and so much more! Try Windows Live OneCare! http://onecare.live.com/standard/en-us/purchase/trial.aspx?s_cid=wl_hotmail…

17 years, 5 months

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MIT provides MULTICS source and documentation

by compoobah＠valleyimplants.com

On Nov 15, 2007, at 2:28 PM, Chuck wrote: > How about ATAoAL? ATA over Aldis Lamp? Should be doable... > The standard should include a bridge to either Bongo drums or smoke signals. The smoke could be produced by old tantalums to bring it back on-topic.

17 years, 5 months

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Drive sizes (WAS Re: MIT provides MULTICS source and documentation)

by compoobah＠valleyimplants.com

On Nov 15, 2007, at 2:28 PM, Roy wrote: > I mentioned it in here because it came up in conversation with > somebody in the > list a while back and they said something about the 1-2G range of > sizes being > particularly useful for some things, though I can't recall at the > moment > just what those things were offhand. > IRIX 4D1-3.3 seems to not like drives much over 1GB, many VAXstations don't like drives over 1.05GB for VMS, SCSI Apollo/DOMAIN systems don't like drives much over 2GB. I know there's more but can't recall right now. There should probably be a "disk size limits FAQ" somewhere to hold all of this

17 years, 5 months

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VAX 11/750 Config and Diagnostics, anyone?

by oldcpu2＠rogerwilco.org

Just wanted to update everyone on the status of the Montpelier, Idaho VAX 11/750 that was rescued last month without much in the way of included modules, except for the Systems Industries 9700 controller...and, to ask for some help. After a little effort, I think I now have the minimum boardset required to fire this baby up. But just to make sure that yours truly, a complete Unibus and big-iron VAX noob, has it figured correctly, I wanted to run my configuration by you guys before I shoot off my right foot (which would, of course, leave me with only a wrong foot). I've now got the following installed in the backplane: <nothing> in CMI slot 1 (still looking for the optional L0001 FPU) L0002 (DPM) in CMI slot 2 L0003 (MIC) in CMI slot 3 L0004 (UBI) in CMI slot 4 L0008 (PCS) in CMI slot 5 L0006 (RDM) in CMI slot 6 (optional, I guess, but came with other boards) <nothing> in CMI slot 7 (I pulled the SI9700 from this slot) <nothing> in CMI slot 8 <nothing> in CMI slot 9 L0016 (CMC2) in CMI slot 10 M8750 (1MB RAM) in 'extended' slots 11-18 (8MB total) M9202 (Unibus 'joiner') in slots 19 and 20 M7485 (DZ11) in Unibus slot 21 <nothing> in Unibus slot 22 <nothing> in Unibus slot 23 <nothing> in Unibus slot 24 <nothing> in Unibus slot 25 <nothing> in Unibus slot 26 <nothing> in Unibus slot 27 M9313 (Unibus Term) in Unibus slot 28 I still don't have any mass storage interfaces (to support my RA81 and/or x2 Fujitsu SuperEagles...still looking for UDA50, Dilog DU256, and/or Emulex UD33), but I was hoping that I have enough modules to start testing the CPU, anyway. I do need to review Ethan's earlier comments about properly jumpering the now empty CMI slot 7, but I'll do that before I power up. Does this look like a reasonable config for now, at least to start testing the CPU? Also... I have successfully cobbled a cable between the onboard TU58 drive (using external power) and a PDP-11/23+. (Yes, I could have used a PC with John Wilson's PUTR, but the PDP was handy...the cable works either way.) I have managed to image the four carts that were part of the rescue. So at least I know that the TU58 is operational. They're probably already 'out there', but for what it's worth, if anyone wants a copy of these images, let me know... BE-J844Q-BE VAX FORTRAN V4.4 BIN TU58 1/2 BE-M873G-BE VAX FORTRAN V4.4 BIN TU58 2/2 BE-CJ51E-BE VAX FORTRAN V4.4 BIN TU58 1/1 [help files, I think] Systems Industries 9900 VAX/VMS Installation Package v4.0 After reading through the various docs found on bitsavers.org and vt100.net/manx it appears that a standard set of TU58 DECtape II carts were included with each system. Several of these carts contained CPU and system diagnostics. I'm hoping someone has a set of these tapes imaged somewhere that I could download and give a try. According to the VAX 11/750 HW Installation and Acceptance manual, the tapes with diagnostics are: Tape 5: - ECKAL - Cache/TB - ECKAX - Cluster Exerciser - ECKAM - Memory Diagnostic Tape 6: - ECSAA - Diagnostic Supervisor - ECCBA - UBI/DW 750 Diagnostic Tape 7: - EVKAA - Hardcore Instructions Tape 8: - EVKAB - Architectural Instructions - EVKAC - Floating-Point Instructions - EVKAD - Compatibility Mode Instructions - EVKAE - Privileged Architectural Instructions Can anyone help me out? Thanks. - Jared

17 years, 5 months

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cctalk Digest, Vol 51, Issue 47

by compoobah＠valleyimplants.com

On Nov 15, 2007, at 3:22 AM, Chuck Guizis wrote: >> Which reminds me of a comment I saw somewhere about the possibility >> of having >> a SCSI bus with more than one host adapter on it. Is that even >> possible? Supported on (some? all?) Alphas for clustering.

17 years, 5 months

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What is an Epson BM5?

by ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk

Can anyone tell me anything about the Epson BM5 floppy drive unit? Perhaps a little description will help. Physcially it's about the size of an Epson TF20 and has one vertically-mounted half-height floppy drive on the front, along with a power LED. On the back are the usual mains connector and switch and a DB25 socket. The unit splits into 3 main sections, PUS, controller and drive The PSU consists of a mains transformer and a PCB cotnaining an STK7561 hybrid chip. It claims to give out 5V at 2A and 12V at 3A. I guess there's nothing to add about that. The controller claims to be a 'Rabbit Board'. The main chips are a Z80A, 24K of SRAM, 8K of EPROM, an 8237 DMA chip and a 7261, which seems to be a _hard_ drive controller. And of course a lot of TTL glue. The DB25 socket is fixed to this board, it's clearly a TTL level parallel intefave, possibly SCSI-like. The drive links to the cotnroller by a pair of ribbon cables, 1 20 way and 1 34 way. I'm seriously suspecting an ST506/ST412 interface -- yes, on a floppy drive. The drive is Hitachi FDD541. The mechancial side looks conventional, a stepper motor postiioned (it desont _seem_ to be servo-trackedm, although I guess it could micro-step). Spindle motor, etc seem normal to, there is a head-load solenoid. The disks are clearly of the normal 5.25" form factor, but I suspect of a much higher coercivity. There's a logic board fixed to the drive, full of ICs I've never heard off, including a 637B01X0P (Microcontroller?), and an ASIC in a PGA opackage). The contorller interface really does look like ST506/412. Anyone got any ideas? What was it used with, what is the host interface? -tony

17 years, 5 months

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Commodore 65 = $5,000

by jvdg＠sparcpark.net

> Tony Duell wrote: > >> However, I am saddened by a classic computer that will never be turned on >> again. Computers are not fine art, they are machines that should be run >> (and for that matter, I feel that fine art should be viewed, not stored >> in a vault). > > As much as Tony is a hardware guy, I'm a software guy on the other end > of the spectrum. And yet I wholeheartedly agree with this, to the point > where pretty much all of my hobbyist programming is done on old iron. > It's not enough that I use my old machines; I have to make them jump > through new hoops :-) I agree, in principle, but there are exceptions. I *prefer* a machine to work, but some machines are of such beauty that I wouldn't part with them for the world even if they didn't work. My SGI Crimson Jurassic Classic is one such example. Even if it were just an empty shell, I'd still stick it in my living room as a side table. That monster is just too beautiful not to have on display, and my particular machine has enough of a history attached to it that it makes a historic artefact and a prime conversation piece. ,xtG tsooJ

17 years, 5 months

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DDC Fixed Head Disks

by leeib＠sequan.com

I was reading your thread about DDC head-per-track drives. I had a friend around 1980 that had one of these drives which he had obtained as surplus from the US Air Force. It used helium atmosphere around the disks to reduce friction. The disk was 12" in diameter and spun at 33,000 RPM (not a typo), and so it would produce considerable heat from friction if ordinary air were used, at least that's what I heard at the time. It was intended as a substitute for magnetic core (RAM) for mainframes. The disk latency was around 30 microseconds. Because the driving electronics were a lot slower then, the rated random access speed was (as I recall) 50 microseconds. Lee

17 years, 5 months

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Tarbell is making me insane

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: Tarbell is making me insane > From: Grant Stockly <grant at stockly.com> > Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 00:43:21 -0900 > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >Allison, thanks a lot for the detailed response! A lot of that info >can be used to help other people too! > >I've written this e-mail from the "bottom up", so some things may >seem out of order in the time line. > >I think that I'm to the point where I've narrowed the problem down to >inside the tarbell card, but I don't think the problem is the >1771. Any further hints are well appreciated. : ) I've seen bad 1771s out of the box (WD was not allways a qualaity house) but I've never seeen one fail in service excluding overvoltage or reverse polairty. One little nasty. The 1771 has a basic ability to do data seperation. I havent' looked at a tarbel board in a very long time but I do hope that they didn't do the TRS80 save a buck trick and try to use that internal seperator, it does NOT work. It has zero jitter tolerence. >I think we're getting closer! > >> >I can't speak for the exact combination of the Tarbell, but the >> >system has been running all day long with: >> >-16k static card >> >-8k static card >> >-4k static card > >The disks are 24k CP/M 1.4, the 4k is for the monitor. Forgot to say >that... Included on my source disk (which is read by the flaky >tarbell) is a BIOS for 48k CP/M, but I have never had it going long >enough to patch, movcpm, or whatever it is that has to be done to get >the new CP/M onto the disk... Just making sure. >>Ok you have 28k ram. Is the image sized and booting in that? >>If the image is sized for say 32 or 48K it will crash, likely >>as a bounce back to rom monitor. > >See previous response for a description. When it runs, it >runs. When it doesn't...it doesn't : ( The fact that it runs is good. You have a viable image but a systemic problem. >I spent all day long writing my own tarbell driver / monitor program >that would select, reset, seek, read, write, etc. When I tried the >read monitor command for the first time I didn't get an error. I >tried booting CP/M and it worked... Then I swapped to the more >troublesome tarbell card to get errors (I know, stupid) The problem >appears to be within the tarbell card. I can reliably get my tarbell >monitor to report this: > >Reading A Sector >ERROR: Record Not Found! >" Data is comming from the disk, however it's not readable. Possible reasons: NOISE, ground the drive, insure it has good power that the system case and it's grounds are common. Also common error is long drive cables (stay short for now) and cables (and drives) that get near CRTs. Jitter: EXTERNAL: This can come from noise as above. Also drive mechanical issues. Internal: 1771 requires a data seperator to recover clock and nice(cleaned up some) read data. The common circuits are oneshots and PLLs. Tarbel used oneshots. Generally they work well enough if set right. LOGIC: problem with read/wait hardware not working or possible data path corruption. > >When I swap to the "better" tarbell, the basic sector read command >passes. (BTW, the reliably bad one above did boot CP/M once and gave >me a few good sectors!!! And I've swapped the 1771 between boards >and the bad stays bad and good stays good!) Basically I use the >monitor to clean the memory, load my program, and then I flip the >reset switch on the Altair. The Altair runs my program which starts >at 0000 and then jumps back into the rom monitor. Here is the >tarbell being good: your shotgunning. I've seen this for 30+ years. Doesn't work, swap out the big hairy chip as they must be flaky or why else put it in a socket? Rare if ever is that the case. FYI: certain brands of sockets of the side wipe style tend to fatigue with insertion/removeal and some do it over time leading to failures where the chips are 100% good but nothing works and may be flakey if wiggled or moved. >" >MON85 Version 1.1 > >Copyright 1979-2006 Dave Dunfield >All rights reserved. > > > F0000 3000 00 > > L > > > >Reading A Sector > >MON85 Version 1.1 > >Copyright 1979-2006 Dave Dunfield >All rights reserved. > > > m2000 >2000 1E 0A 31 00 01 21 00 45 16 33 0E 02 06 04 79 CD ..1..!.E.3....y. >2010 2A 00 15 CA 00 5A 06 00 0C 79 FE 13 DA 0F 00 3E *....Z...y.....> >2020 53 D3 F8 DB FC 0E 01 C3 0C 00 D3 FA CD 41 00 3E S............A.> >2030 88 B0 D3 F8 DB FC B7 F2 41 00 DB FB 77 23 C3 34 ........A...w#.4 >2040 00 DB F8 E6 9D C8 1D C2 02 00 32 80 00 2F D3 FF ..........2../.. >2050 C3 50 00 00 5A 80 04 19 00 02 00 45 80 04 15 01 .P..Z......E.... >2060 01 80 51 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ..Q............. >2070 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 C3 00 00 ................ >" > >I have to pull the card out to enable the boot rom...guess what, it >boots...but at the moment it is only reading "real" DD media. The HD >media with the tape "works" but BDOS complains about "bad >sectors". This HD disk on another day works just fine. DD or HD with tarbel?????? >I ran one of the programs: >"A>disktest > >TARBELL MINI-FLOPPY DIAGNOSTIC OF 8-1-80 >STANDARD VERSION 1.8 >40 TRACKS 18 SECTORS > >SELECT DRIVE. (A/B/C/D) a >HOW MANY RETRYS? (0-9) 4 >SELECT STEP RATE. (S=40MS,M=20MS,F=12MS) m >FULL TRACK SEEK? (Y/N) y >TO START TEST TYPE RETURN. > >0 READ ERRORS DETECTED. > >REPEAT TEST? (Y/N) >" > >Maybe that gives you a clue as to what I'm working with. > >And if I try my HD disks it does this: (to every sector on every track) >" >READ RECORD NOT FOUND ERROR. >TRACK 0 SECTOR 1 > >READ RECORD NOT FOUND ERROR. >TRACK 0 SECTOR 2 > >READ RECORD NOT FOUND ERROR. >TRACK 0 SECTOR 3 >" >Last weekend that was my boot disk and I had several basic programs >compiled with basic-e on it. HD media is incompatable in every way with older drives and lower data rates. Drives used for HD media are 96tpi and track pasing ansd width are different, incompatability is oftenn the case or at best it gets by. Don't have Tarbell schematics handy to check. Does the read loop test a status bit or hang/wait on read? If it's hang wait on read is that also tied to interrupt?? If it's read a status bit two things: CPU MUST complete the read a byte loop in 32us (64 for mini floppy) and CPU speed makes this in some cases difficult. can you supply the sector read code? ( should be fairly short) >>Is the boot image set up for MITS 2SIO and does it set it up? > >I have a session captured from "once upon a time" when it booted >(which is more random than anything I can think of) > >"TARBELL 24K CPM V1.4 OF 7-20-79 >2SIO MINIFLOPPY VERSION. >HOW MANY DISKS? 2 >A>dir >A: CPM COM >A: SYSGEN COM >A: DDT COM >A: COPY COM >A: PIP COM >A: ASM COM >A: STAT COM >A: ED COM >A: FORMAT COM >A: DISKTEST COM >A: DUMPDSK COM >A: BASIC COM >A: RUN COM >A> >" Yeeha! >>I assume thse are in high memory and not below the address the image will >>try to boot to. CP/M wants from 0000h to system size as configured. > >My bytesaver is at C000 and 4k of sram for the monitor is at >E000. There is 24k of contigous memory at 0000. > >>Doesnt assure the FDC is set right for the drive and media. >>Also doesnt assure the media is SD or even bootable. >>Further is the media is not using a 2sio as the IO the system could >>boot and crash or appear to. > >The drive, tarbell, and boot disks were mailed to me from a fellow >enthusiast. He made all of the modifications, made the disks, >etc. He has tested the setup in an IMSAI (kind of) with my (kit) >CPU, a SSM 8080, and a ZPU at 2MHz. Kind of and exactly are differnt things. >To add to that, I have myself booted off the setup, formatted disks, >made copies, ran the basic compilier, ran asm, etc. But something >(and I think its IN??? the tarbell card does not like me, Alaska, my >Altiar... I don't know! : ( Could be an interaction of both. > >A quote: >"My Imsai has a standard front panel with a factory suggested mod. to >do a power-on halt at zero. It has two 16K Industrial Microsystems >static ram boards, a SIO2 serial board and a SSM 8080 CPU. The prom >on the Tarbell is turned off to let the front panel operate properly >at power on. The Tarbell is then booted by using a MITS eprom board >and the 1702A eprom you burned for me. The power supply is a >Industrial Microsystems switching supply which powers both the drives >and the backplane But you don't have "that". You sorta have something like that. >Following is the different configurations I have used in the test >unit to boot the Tarbell; > 1. With a Z80 Cromemco ZPU set at 2Mhz, power-on jump set to >zero and no front panel. The Tarbell boots at power-on and will do a >cold boot every time you push the reset button. > 2. With a ZPU and Imsai front panel the Tarbell boots >only when the run switch is pushed. > > 3. With the Altair CPU and no front panel the Tarbell will not >boot at power on or after a reset! No suprize, the MITS CPU has no POJ, nada. It must be reset, load address and then run. > 4. With the Altair CPU and the Imsai front panel the Tarbell >will boot after you push reset and then push the run switch. Says the MITS FP is causing some pain. > >After the Tarbell boards boot I have never had a problem or dropout >in CP/M with any CPU- front panel configuration. The static ram >boards use low power chips and run cool. thats good but getting there is an issue. >Remember my Altair CPU board uses a 8224 in the oscillator circuit >and I replaced the 8T97 with 74LS367's. >" The 8t97s worked fine for me. It has 8224? your mod or 8800B? >This is some info on the mod: >"The modification we have on our Tarbell boards was designed for the >5.25 Tandon TM-100 single sided. single density 48tpi drive which was >one of the first 5.25 drives produced. It might be that some of the >new 3.5 drives just won't work with the setup we are using." The only media that should go in that drive is the brown SD/DD floppies. If the media was written on a 96tpi drive the noise and jitter _will_ be higher due to track width differences. IF the FDC oneshots are not quite on that makes a huge differnence. The hub clamps sometimes off center the media and still media will sometimes drag the motor speed down. Watch for that. >>Could even be a simple bad IDC crimp on the cable. > >I have tried a few FDC cables. Maybe I should make a new one. Suggestions of the obvious. > >Time for bed. : ( > >Grant Don't know if it helps Allison

17 years, 5 months

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Speaking of multiple processors...

by rtellason＠verizon.net

Didn't that "Superbrain" computer use a couple of Z80 chips in there? IIRC, one was the "main" CPU and the other one handled I/O tasks of some sort (disk?). I had a guy come into my shop one time wanting a couple of those fixed, but I could find *no* data on them at the time and therefore couldn't do too much for him... Are there docs out there for this beast? I'm just wondering how they divided things up between the two CPU chips, and how they interfaced things... -- Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and ablest -- form of life in this section of space, ?a critter that can be killed but can't be tamed. ?--Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters" - Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James M Dakin

17 years, 5 months

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Tarbell is making me insane

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: Tarbell is making me insane > From: Grant Stockly <grant at stockly.com> > Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 22:57:55 -0900 > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only" <cctech at classiccmp.org> > > >>FYI: 3.5" disks were never meant to run at 125khz. The >>720k mode is 250khz and the 1.44mh is 500khz. The read >>amps just may not work well down that low. > >Do you think that it would be better if I were to get the Tarbell to >run at 4MHz (250kHz)? > >I'd have to make a new BIOS and modify the format program. I don't >have source for the format program. Does anyone off hand know where >source to the Tarbell CP/M utilites could be found? Or utilities for any FDC based on 1771 could be modified. >I should be able to format the disk as 36 sectors 80 tracks and >possibly configure it to use both sides. That would be formatting it >to capacity... > >I'm going to write a disk image tool that dumps the disk to my >computer. I could write one that also writes an image to a disk. > >What do you think would happen if I were to try to use the disk at >250kHz but only put half of the sectors? Will the 1771 handle the >extra time or give me errors? Take the time to read up on 1771 and FDC formats before you just plunge in. You will arrive at a better solution and spare yourself wasted time. Not all 1771s where shipped as full speed parts too. >This faster signal might be better for the disk drive? Potentially. Remember FM floppy recording was passe' by the early 80s with every one needed far greater space. It want even a consideration buy time PC 3.5" floppies hit the street. >It may seem strange I'm fighting with this so hard, especially since >I'm working on Altair disk drive system emulator using SD cards, but >nothing beats real live hardware. : ) I can understand wanting a floppy, a real floppy. However I'd expect a goal such as being able to read 8" SSSD (cp/m standard) or other widely used format for archival or transfer. Another controller that ended up in altairs very often was the NS* MDS. It's hard sector but there is a lots of media and programs for it's DOS and also CP/M. Getting floppies is a pain however. Allison >Grant

17 years, 5 months

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Colossus code-breaking again...

by julesrichardsonuk＠yahoo.co.uk

Nice article up on the BBC news website about the Cipher Challenge that's going on today: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7094881.stm ... I've not been involved in that side of things, but it's been interesting watching Tony and his crew running around the last few weeks trying to get everything put together (there was a huge amount to do on the reception/intercept side of things in particular) cheers Jules

17 years, 5 months

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"Bally Astrocade"

by rschroeder＠satx.rr.com

I have a Bally Computer System,Astrovision Arcade Model ABA-1000-2. 7-controllers,1-video touch pad,11-games,2-Arcadian Cassettes,1-TV adaptor,2-key pad over lays,1-Bally Basic Computer Programming Cartridge With Built-In Audio Interface,and a complete set of manuals.

17 years, 5 months

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Speaking of multiple processors...

by dm561＠torfree.net

----------Original Message: Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2007 21:32:19 +1300 From: Ethan Dicks <ethan.dicks at usap.gov> Subject: Intellegent peripherals (was Re: MIT provides MULTICS source and documentation (DPS-8 simulation)) <snip> The DOS for the 2040/3040/4040/8050/8250 drives had a "copy drive N to drive M" command (I'd quote chapter and verse, but I don't have access to the 'net right now). <snip> You could then, say, use your IEEE-488 acoustic coupler to logon to a BBS while disks were copying, or print to a printer, or whatever, since the IEEE bus was not involved in that disk-to-disk copy. <snip> -ethan ---------Reply: And if there was an error during the copy or backup the drive merely lit an error LED (which some people supplemented with a piezo beeper because it was easy to miss) and you had to ask the drive what the error was (and clear the error condition). That way whatever you were doing in the meantime would not be interrupted with an error message. You could also defragment (collect) the disk while doing something else, although for some reason the format (header) command tied up the computer until it finished. m

17 years, 5 months

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Variations on Commodore monitors

by cfox1＠cogeco.ca

At 10:40 AM 11/15/2007, you wrote: >As part of the process of getting a second C128 system set up and >running, I recently ordered another Commodore 1084 monitor from an >eBay seller. The one I have is nice and bright and lets me switch >quickly between the composite (40-column) and RGBI (80-column) outputs >of the 128, so I was happy to stumble across another one for a >reasonable price. > >It arrived last night, and it's a great little monitor, in even better >shape than the one I already had. To my surprise, though, it's also >completely different. The case is different, the form factor and >positioning of the controls are different -- and, most relevantly, >even the connectors are different. My older one (made in 1989) has a >DB-9 input for RGBI input. The new arrival (made in 1988, if I recall >correctly) has an 8-pin DIN input for RGBI input. > >Thankfully, I already had a DB-9 to DIN-8 cable in the Big Box of CBM >Scraps, so I didn't have to order any cable-making parts from Mouser, >but it does bring up a question: how many potentially problematic >variations on the same model number did Commodore make? I know that >they did a lot of this sort of thing, given the ever-changing >appearance of the C2N and 1541, but is there a quick and easy question >I can ask a seller to find out exactly what ports to expect on the >back of a 1084 (or similar monitor)? "DB-9" and "8-pin DIN" are >already way too difficult to explain to somebody just trying to clean >out their attack, but if there's a guide out there with a breakdown by >manufacturing date or serial number for some of this Commodore >equipment, that would be lovely... I also have two 1084S Monitors, 1989 with Din, and 1991 with the DB connector. Both came with Amigas. Charlie Fox Charles E. Fox Video Productions 793 Argyle Rd. Windsor, Ontario 519-254-4991 N8Y 3J8 www.chasfoxvideo.com

17 years, 5 months

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Speaking of multiple processors...

by dm561＠torfree.net

-----------Original Message: Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2007 08:32:02 +0000 From: Gordon JC Pearce <gordonjcp at gjcp.net> Subject: Re: Speaking of multiple processors... On Thu, 2007-11-15 at 00:32 -0500, Roy J. Tellason wrote: > Didn't that "Superbrain" computer use a couple of Z80 chips in there? IIRC, > one was the "main" CPU and the other one handled I/O tasks of some sort > (disk?). <snip> It does. I believe one handles disk accesses, while the other does the rest. Once I get mine working, I'll tell you more.<snip> Gordon ----------Reply: Cromemco also had Z80s on their I/O processor boards, and when the later 680x0 CPU boards dropped the Z80 you could still run your Z80 programs on the I/O card. mike

17 years, 5 months

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Software for Data I/O 280 programmer?

by derschjo＠msu.edu

I picked up a Data I/O 280 programmer this weekend, without manuals or software. According to Data I/O's webpage, it's no longer supported at all, so they have nothing available for download/purchase/whatever. Anyone have software/manuals/anything for this thing? Thanks as always, Josh

17 years, 5 months

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Commodore 65 = $5,000

by spectre＠floodgap.com

Admittedly, I was mulling over it too. This one is not only a real 65, it's apparently in mostly working order (as much as any of the extant 65s are). http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=230190927853 -- ------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ -- Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com -- Burglar alarms: For the man who has everything! ----------------------------

17 years, 5 months

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How not to fix a classic mac (or: fried logic boards)

by trag＠io.com

> Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 16:34:45 -0900 > From: Grant Stockly <grant at stockly.com> > At 03:17 PM 11/14/2007, you wrote: >> > The LAG is labeled "HAL16R8CN 8440 / 342-0251-A" so it does look like >> a >> > custom ("HAL") chip such as what Tony was mentioning. Guess that >> would >>I will try to find all my notes on the Mac+ (but not tonight!). I know I >>never figured out the PAL equations, but I might have something of use. > > There are equations for the PALs on my website: > http://www.stockly.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6 Wow, Grant, that's a really cool website. Where have you been hiding? That is a very cool project. I keep my eyes open for other folks who actually like to tinker with Mac hardware in a circuit board sense and they are few and far between. Even the over-clocking enthusiasts try to avoid soldering at every turn, for the most part. Will you have to rewrite some of the firmware (ROM contents) in order to change the timing of your project and gain the extra speed? Also, have you looked at the Brainstorm accelerator at all--the one which simply added a 16 MHz CPU on top of the original? It had a replacement BUG I think and a small amount of firmware. Jeff Walther

17 years, 5 months

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S100 Floppy Controller Question

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: S100 Floppy Controller Question > From: M H Stein <dm561 at torfree.net> > Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2007 04:21:34 -0500 > To: "'cctalk at classiccmp.org'" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >---------Original Messages: >Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 07:48:21 -0500 >From: Allison <ajp166 at bellatlantic.net> >Subject: Re: S100 Floppy Controller Question >> >>Subject: Re: S100 Floppy Controller Question >> From: M H Stein <dm561 at torfree.net> >> Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 01:13:48 -0500 >> To: "'cctalk at classiccmp.org'" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > ><snip> >> >>I think you might have misunderstood, Allison; sounds like you thought I was >>talking about replacing an FDC with one other than what the BIOS is configured >>for; obviously that will require mods to the BIOS. > >Ok, then same fdc but sufficiently differnt drive requires new (modified) bios. > >Changes that affect a bios: > > Motor on/motor runs continiously. > > Step rate, head load delay, motor on delay > > Different on disk format (likely with 8 to 5") > > >>What I was responding to was a previous post that suggested replacing an 8" >>drive with a 5 1/4" HD drive might require mods to the BIOS, and I just wanted >>to mention that this is not the case with a Cromemco 16/64FDC, to which a >>TM848 and a JU475 appear identical as long as the jumpers on the 5 1/4 drive >>are set correctly and it supplies /READY, and that this may also apply to some >>other controllers. Also, if the controller has both 8" and 5 1/4 connectors and >>they are effectively in parallel as they are on the Cromemco, you may not >>even need a 50<>34 pin adapter cable. > >if the drive supplies ready _MAYBE_. If the Drive has the same step rate. > >-------------Reply: > >Well, I should know better than to argue (again ;-) with you of all people, but... > >Since we're talking about 'modern' 5 1/4" HD drives, Motor on and Ready >are jumper selectable on all the drives I've run across, step rates etc. are >faster than the 8" equivalent (except perhaps the PerScis), and with the >same speed and data rate the disk formats are identical, no? the drive used are a factor and many of the later designed systems had what could be described as an adaptive, they have a bios written to accomodate a wider variety of drives. >In any case I'm only specifically talking about my Cromemco system and it >seems to work fine for me. It gives me 1.1 MB on a 5 1/4HD diskette instead >of 360KB and lets me deal with both 5 1/4 and 8" images conveniently in a >single 5 1/4" FH bay box, without the complication of the 24V supply, 50 pin >cable, unreliable old 8" drives etc. To initially read & convert my 8" disks I just >temporarily plugged an external drive w/PS into the unused 50 pin connector. >I haven't tried it yet, but it should also make recreating an 8" image on a PC >easier, and it puts some 5 1/4HD drives & disks to a good use, which otherwise >would end up on the shelf or in the trash since I don't use them on PCs. Cromemco is one such example and much later than Altair/Tarbell. >After installing the drive I happened to run across some old posts in the archives >dealing with this very topic (on a Cromemco); apparently it was easy and worked >fine for some and not for others. I just wanted to add my name to the former >group in case it had relevance to someone else with a Cromemco FDC or >_perhaps_ even with a different make of controller if it's similar, and especially >mention to one of the original posters that it might not be necessary to kludge up a >50<>34 pin adapter cable (which he was reluctant to make) if the two interfaces >on his FDC are handled the same way as on the Cromemco FDC. Same was the case for AmproLB, SB180, and Compupro. Generally most fo the floppies are close to "setup, plug and play". However really old drives for example SA800, SA400 it's fairly easy to get the signals right but things like 40ms step rate (sa400) and 12ms step rate(sa800) have to be driven by software. After about 1981/82 design had fewer problems and 5.25 floppies started to look more alike than different electronically. The gotchas still lurk out there. Allison >mike

17 years, 5 months

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Tarbell is making me insane

by jvdg＠sparcpark.net

> I had that a work once it was dust in the drives scaring the disks > after one or two uses. > > Reaaon, PC suck air out of the box, where does it come in? Any ways it > can and through the floppy was one path. True enough. Actually, the first NeXT Cubes had their MO drives fail regularly due to the fan sucking dust in through the drive slot(s). When bringing the machine in for repair, the fan would be reversed to alleviate the problem. Later Cubes were manufactured with the fan blowing in as standard. ,xtG tsooJ

17 years, 5 months

1
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0 0

S100 Floppy Controller Question

by dm561＠torfree.net

---------Original Messages: Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 07:48:21 -0500 From: Allison <ajp166 at bellatlantic.net> Subject: Re: S100 Floppy Controller Question > >Subject: Re: S100 Floppy Controller Question > From: M H Stein <dm561 at torfree.net> > Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 01:13:48 -0500 > To: "'cctalk at classiccmp.org'" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> <snip> > >I think you might have misunderstood, Allison; sounds like you thought I was >talking about replacing an FDC with one other than what the BIOS is configured >for; obviously that will require mods to the BIOS. Ok, then same fdc but sufficiently differnt drive requires new (modified) bios. Changes that affect a bios: Motor on/motor runs continiously. Step rate, head load delay, motor on delay Different on disk format (likely with 8 to 5") >What I was responding to was a previous post that suggested replacing an 8" >drive with a 5 1/4" HD drive might require mods to the BIOS, and I just wanted >to mention that this is not the case with a Cromemco 16/64FDC, to which a >TM848 and a JU475 appear identical as long as the jumpers on the 5 1/4 drive >are set correctly and it supplies /READY, and that this may also apply to some >other controllers. Also, if the controller has both 8" and 5 1/4 connectors and >they are effectively in parallel as they are on the Cromemco, you may not >even need a 50<>34 pin adapter cable. if the drive supplies ready _MAYBE_. If the Drive has the same step rate. -------------Reply: Well, I should know better than to argue (again ;-) with you of all people, but... Since we're talking about 'modern' 5 1/4" HD drives, Motor on and Ready are jumper selectable on all the drives I've run across, step rates etc. are faster than the 8" equivalent (except perhaps the PerScis), and with the same speed and data rate the disk formats are identical, no? In any case I'm only specifically talking about my Cromemco system and it seems to work fine for me. It gives me 1.1 MB on a 5 1/4HD diskette instead of 360KB and lets me deal with both 5 1/4 and 8" images conveniently in a single 5 1/4" FH bay box, without the complication of the 24V supply, 50 pin cable, unreliable old 8" drives etc. To initially read & convert my 8" disks I just temporarily plugged an external drive w/PS into the unused 50 pin connector. I haven't tried it yet, but it should also make recreating an 8" image on a PC easier, and it puts some 5 1/4HD drives & disks to a good use, which otherwise would end up on the shelf or in the trash since I don't use them on PCs. After installing the drive I happened to run across some old posts in the archives dealing with this very topic (on a Cromemco); apparently it was easy and worked fine for some and not for others. I just wanted to add my name to the former group in case it had relevance to someone else with a Cromemco FDC or _perhaps_ even with a different make of controller if it's similar, and especially mention to one of the original posters that it might not be necessary to kludge up a 50<>34 pin adapter cable (which he was reluctant to make) if the two interfaces on his FDC are handled the same way as on the Cromemco FDC. mike

17 years, 5 months

1
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Who keeps buying DECTalks?

by silent700＠gmail.com

So I like early speech synthesis. I like DEC stuff. I've got a couple forms of the DECTalk boxes (the portable, the ISA card.) I'd like the DTC-01 unit, the one that sort of looks like a VX2000 terminal. They come up on ebay every other week or so and end up selling for well over $100. Who's buying these things? Are they popular with collectors? Or are they still being used in the disability care industry?

17 years, 5 months

14
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Tarbell is making me insane

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: Tarbell is making me insane > From: Gordon JC Pearce <gordonjcp at gjcp.net> > Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 08:26:55 +0000 > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > > >On Tue, 2007-11-13 at 20:28 -0500, Allison wrote: > >> I use a stack (about 200) of written once disks, they have sales >> promo and utility on them and never distributed. Good media >> and easily erased. > >I bought a box of 500 DSDD floppies from a guy on eBay. They appear to >be new. They seem to be pretty good quality too - the cases are a bit >naff and plasticky but they actually work. > >I still don't understand how brand new 1.44M floppies fail after two or >three uses, but the 20-year-old SSDD disks for my Ensoniq Mirage are >still perfectly readable. > >Gordon I had that a work once it was dust in the drives scaring the disks after one or two uses. Reaaon, PC suck air out of the box, where does it come in? Any ways it can and through the floppy was one path. Allison

17 years, 5 months

2
1
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fS/H: Power Mac 9500 mobo/FD

by Arno_1983＠gmx.de

Hello listmembers, some days ago I stumbled across the remains of a parted-out Power Macintosh 9500 that I have no use for. There are: -3,5" floppy drive (Mitsubishi MF355F-2592MA) -grey plastic mounting sled and 20-conductor ribbon cable for the above -mainboard (P/N: 820-0563-B), bare (no DIMMs, no CPU, heck not even PRAM battery (but with power LED)). Chances are I might go back and snatch case parts incase anybody wants me to; what I remember for sure is that there were no fans left and the back panel was missing too. I couldn't test anything so it's assumed dead and offered for pickup or S&H (inside Europe only). I'm in Germany btw, and I could bring it to the VCFe in Munich next April. Yours sincerely, -- Arno Kletzander Stud. Hilfskraft Informatik Sammlung Erlangen www.iser.uni-erlangen.de Der GMX SmartSurfer hilft bis zu 70% Ihrer Onlinekosten zu sparen! Ideal f?r Modem und ISDN: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/smartsurfer

17 years, 5 months

1
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can anybody use these tapes?

by rtellason＠verizon.net

In among a whole bunch of audio tapes are these three "Teac CT-500H High Density Magnetic Tape Cassette"s... Instead of the usual tab that you can break out to prevent recording there's a small red bit in one of the holes, which the bit of paper in there refers to as a "write enable plug". Two of the three are still sealed in their original plastic. I don't think even the third one is used at all. Feel free to contact me offlist if you have any use for these... -- Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and ablest -- form of life in this section of space, ?a critter that can be killed but can't be tamed. ?--Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters" - Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James M Dakin

17 years, 5 months

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How not to fix a classic mac (or: fried logic boards)

by derschjo＠msu.edu

The other day I picked up a Macintosh 512k with a broken monitor for $5 thinking that it'd be a fun project to hack on (yes, another thing to add to my pile of things to hack on, just what I need :)). The power/sweep board had a couple of obviously dead capacitors and a few cracked solder joints, which I fixed up and lo and behold, the screen came back to life and I did a little dance. There was still a bit of jitter in the picture from time to time, and jiggling one of the connectors revealed another dry joint so I powered it down and prepared to fix the other joint. First point of business, I discharged the CRT. To the main chassis. This, as I have now discovered, is not what you are supposed to do to discharge the CRT unless you want to destroy the logic board. I now have a working monitor but a fried logic board; on powerup, the normally short boot tone is long and drawn out, as if the machine were running at a tiny fraction of its normal speed. Which I suppose is actually what's going on. So I killed _something_ on the main PCB, but I'm not sure what. Anyone out there experienced this failure mode? Any obvious things to check? Well, live and learn. At least it wasn't a 128K mac :). Thanks, Josh

17 years, 5 months

3
3
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TMS 9980

by wmaddox＠pacbell.net

I just won a TI 9980/180M evaluation board on eBay. I was contacted by a losing bidder who apparently is in need of a 9980 processor chip. Does anyone have one for sale, or know an economical source for a single unit? --Bill

17 years, 5 months

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test-drb November 2007