November 2007 - test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

Documentation for the AT&T Sceptre Videotex terminal

by dm561＠torfree.net

Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 17:43:31 -0700 From: woodelf <bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca> Subject: Re: Documentation for the AT&T Sceptre Videotex terminal Richard wrote: > Ack! Yes, the keyboard looks painful. I don't think they envisioned > that people would actually type on this thing, more like hunt & peck. That has to be the 2nd worst keyboard I have seen. The 1st is any keyboard with 'windows' keys. Considering Videotex was ment as information setup it was more like press 1 to display ... 9 to return to menu type stuff. Ben alias woodelf --------------- You're not really a big PC & Windows fan, are ya? The 'windows' key's never bothered me; how does it disturb you? m

18 years, 1 month

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Falco Terminal

by dm561＠torfree.net

Speaking of keyboards etc.: Anybody have a use for a Falco VT5220e, as used by many DECcies whose budgets couldn't afford a 'real' VT200? Looks just like the picture of the Infinity (amber CRT) at: http://williambader.com/museum/vax/vaxhistory.html Might also have one of the older TS-100SPs somewhere (VT100). And a L-S ADM-11... Unfortunately, although I have boxes of Falco docs the 5220 manual seems to have gone missing from the pile (at least I haven't found it yet), although I do have docs for the ADM-11, and the TS-100 if I can find it. m

18 years, 1 month

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Documentation for the AT&T Sceptre Videotex terminal

by jeffj＠panix.com

Re: Documentation for the AT&T Sceptre Videotex terminal (Richard) > http://steinbeck.ucs.indiana.edu/~mmeiss/sceptre/ Wow, those photos bring back memories! I was just thinking about those: a friend had one and google didn't help me. ebay lists Sceptre flat monitors (totally unrelated but a source for confusion). I have something similar: I think it's Zenith. A thick keyboard with the terminal inside the keyboard, it attaches to tv-as-monitor, phone line (internal modem). My Olivetti PR2300 spark-jet printer has line-drawing characters that I don't recognize. Was that intended for teletext/videotext? Yes, I bought it from the DAK catalog after reading the glowing ad how it was a wonderful printer for the low low price. Nowhere did it mention it was a ONE PIN DOT MATRIX PRINTER! It made the dots by creating sparks (ozone!) that fused the powder to form ONE DOT on the paper. Somewhere I have some floppy disks with teletext/videotext software so one could use a PC instead of a dedicated terminal. I remember the computer show around 1990 when several companies /truly believed that Videotex would be the future in the USA/ so they were trying to get customers and data-suppliers/stores online. Also being tried at that time: phones with built-in teeny terminals for folks who didn't want the cost or responsibility of a PC. Geez, those were re-invented how many times: as the CIDCO email only terminal, thin clients, Network appliances (I-opener), ...

18 years, 1 month

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Fwd: My Relay Computer

by grant＠stockly.com

>Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 20:44:43 -0800 >From: Harry Porter <harry at cs.pdx.edu> >Subject: My Relay Computer >X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.912) >X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH authentication, > not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (ehlo.cat.pdx.edu [131.252.208.106]); > Mon, 19 Nov 2007 20:45:33 -0800 (PST) >X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.91.1/4853/Mon Nov 19 19:05:00 2007 on >ehlo.cat.pdx.edu >X-Virus-Status: Clean >X-pstn-levels: (S:77.05695/99.90000 R:95.9108 P:95.9108 M:97.0282 C:98.6951 ) >X-pstn-settings: 3 (1.0000:1.0000) s gt3 gt2 gt1 r p m c >X-pstn-addresses: from <harry at cs.pdx.edu> [34/2] >Original-recipient: rfc822;grant at cmosxray.com > >As you may recall, I built a computer out of relays. > >My records indicate that, at one time, we exchanged email about this computer. > >I wanted to let you know that I have recently added to the webpage >for the computer. > >First, I added a thorough document describing the design in detail: > ><http://web.cecs.pdx.edu/~harry/Relay/RelayPaper.pdf>http://web.cecs.pdx.edu/~harry/Relay/RelayPaper.pdf >http://web.cecs.pdx.edu/~harry/Relay/RelayPaper.htm > >Second, I produced an educational video, which can be accessed >through this page: > ><http://web.cecs.pdx.edu/~harry/Relay/VideoTutorial/index.html>http://web.cecs.pdx.edu/~harry/Relay/VideoTutorial/index.html > >The main page, with all the photos of the machine, is still at: > ><http://web.cecs.pdx.edu/~harry/Relay/VideoTutorial/index.html>http://web.cecs.pdx.edu/~harry/Relay/index.html > >Be well, > >Harry Porter > >HarryAndMachine.jpg > > >RegCloseUp.jpg >

18 years, 1 month

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Keyboard layouts

by dm561＠torfree.net

------------Original Message: Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2007 12:00:19 -0700 From: woodelf <bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca> Subject: Re: Documentation for the AT&T Sceptre Videotex terminal Richard wrote: >> Well, yes, obviously the location is the issue, but it is still just another >> tedious MS-bash; I've got an APL keyboard here, and I think every >> "classic" terminal or computer keyboard I have here is different in >> some "improved" way but I don't hear complaints about that, or all the >> different PC layouts, especially the enter, backspace and \ keys. > > Exactly. I did ... see windows keyboards. But then I am cheap, I don't spend money on a real keyboard. Not that I have seen a modern keyboard I did like. -------------Reply: Different keyboard layouts have been a fact of life since the very first one that wasn't the same as a typewriter; deal with it. Find yourself an old one that you *do* like (if such a thing exists) and spare us your bitching and moaning. Back to our regular programming... m

18 years, 1 month

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keyboard layouts

by dm561＠torfree.net

----------Original Message: Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2007 09:57:37 -0800 (PST) From: Cameron Kaiser <spectre at floodgap.com> Subject: keyboard layouts was Re: Documentation for the AT&T Sceptre Videotex terminal > Don't you also have trouble switching from a C64 to a Mac? Yup. Fortunately most of the emulators let you either use 64 or Mac layouts and map the keys appropriately. ---------Reply: There ya go. Like most of the bitching about MS, Windows, keyboards, etc. here and elsewhere, if you don't like it just shut up and use something else; lots of alternatives like Linux & KBs w/o WIN keys out there and we've heard it all K times. (Meant for the OP, not you Cameron). m

18 years, 1 month

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"intelligent" disk drives

by dkelvey＠hotmail.com

> From: tshoppa at wmata.com > Chuck wrote: >>Micropolis floppy drives were very well-made. I wish that modern >>drives could be as well-built. All of mine are still operational. > > I think that like CDC/Imprimis, Seagate, Shugart, etc., Micropolis > built drives to different price points for different markets. > > The ones built for the mini and mainframe market in the late > 80's/very early 90's are true tanks and stand up very solidly > here 15 or 20 years later. > > But by the mid-late-90's when capacity was the craze I think that > some industrial-duty Micropolis drives were a little too bleeding > edge. > > The MFM ones built for PC-clones, however, seem to simply be "above > average", which is pretty good but not stellar. > > In the late 90's, we were using Micropolis drives in our HaL computers. Many wouldn't even finish our 24 Hour burn-in. When they were making choices as to which drive to use, I was surprised when I was told that they'd go with the Micropolis drive. By that time, they'd already earned a bad name. I was told that the decision was made, based on that fact that they would give us any engineering support we needed. I saw this as a red flag but the upper people didn't. I couldn't understand why we would need any support for something as mature as hard drives of the time. I suspect that bad marketing decisions were made at Micropolis, like the ones that were made at HaL. Engineering didn't have there act to gether before the products were in production. I've seen it happen at otherplaces. Schedule is king and at some point the engineers will just stand and nod their heads ( as they get their resumes ready ). Dwight _________________________________________________________________ Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live.Download today it's FREE! http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_Wave2_sharelife_112007

18 years, 1 month

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Teaching kids about computers...

by James＠jdfogg.com

> So the boy (9yr. old) was asking last night about how > computers work... any recommendations for good books for > learning the basics from? I think I started out with a > Sinclair Spectrum and its BASIC manual, but I really don't > recall now where I found out about the fundamental building > blocks of [typical] computers and how a CPU worked. There > must be a good 'classic' "how computers work" type of book > which avoids going on about PCs and Xboxen... One weekend my parents wanted to get away from the kids so I went to work with my older brother. I was in a lab at P.R. Mallory Corp. with a supply of chips and a few books. Worked for me. At 12 I built an 8080a based something or another (I wouldn't call it a computer, but it had a bit of memory, a numeric keypad and 6 A/N LEDs for display). After that I had accounts on about 6 minis of the DEC and DG variety. Are you sure the kid is interested in computers or just trying to keep up with the alphageeks at school?

18 years, 1 month

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Access to IOPAGE Registers using PDP-11 Opearting Systems

by dave＠mitton.com

>Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 21:17:18 -0500 >From: "Jerome H. Fine" <jhfinedp3k at compsys.to> ... >I doubt that RSX-11 or RSTS/E allow a user access to the IOPAGE >even via PREVIOUS DATA space. Can anyone confirm this assumption? >Is there any fast method (only a few extra instructions) that would allow >a user to reference a specific IOPAGE register from a user program? Are >VIRTUAL arrays allowed in FORTRAN under RSX-11? If so, how >is access to the MMU registers controlled and allowed? > ... >Sincerely yours, >Jerome Fine >-- Ouch, you're straining dead neurons.... As the KMC-11 Development Tools developer for RSX-11M and VMS, I know it's possible. I just don't remember the all the hoops we jumped through to do it. (this was circa 1978/79) The basic approach required us to map the IO registers and peek and poke values in the registers to control execution. Of course this was all written in MACRO-11, not un-manly FORTRAN. ;^) You probably had to be an RSX admin user ( UID below [10,*] ) to run the tools (loader and debugger). On VMS I had to learn the very new facility (I don't think it was in V1.0) of Page Frame Mapping and allocate a page map to get to UNIBUS IO space. This required a specific privilege too. I ported the tools code from Macro-11 to VAX Macro by doing semi- mechanical find/replace on the opcodes, and other tweaks. I even created a few macros to mimic the missing PDP-11 instructions, like SWAB. It needed very little needed rewriting to get working. Dave.

18 years, 1 month

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Teaching kids about computers...

by evan＠snarc.net

There is a good book called "The Chip" by T.R. Reid. Mostly it's the story of Noyce and Kilby (which is well-told and worth reading on its own), but there's a chapter for laypeople about how a chip actually adds two numbers together. Way too simple for cctalk'ers, but great for a 9-year-old. -----Original Message----- From: Scott Quinn <compoobah at valleyimplants.com> Subj: Re: Teaching kids about computers... Date: Wed Nov 21, 2007 11:09 am Size: 1K To: cctalk at classiccmp.org Perhaps not right now, but the biggest "leap forward" I had from books was looking at the 8080/Z80 microcomputer design and operation books (such as Ciarcia's "How to Build Your Own Z-80 Computer" and "Microcomputers and Microprocessors" (8080, 8085 and Z-80) from the hardware standpoint. Probably not a good book until Junior High or High School, though. When I was learning S/W, I remember starting with Logo in 4th grade and using Brainpower ChipWits at home. the ChipWits manual had a small section on programming theory, perhaps I can find it. That's a good game if you have an older Macintosh around (I had issues on machines with over 1MB of RAM - it was written for the 128K, 512K and XL per the disk. Some other people don't seem to have the issues, perhaps there was a revision). In middle school we moved on to BASIC (because it was in the ROMs of Apples). Perhaps not the ideal progression, but nowadays students in the elementary schools don't seem to be learning programming at all- it's more "how you use application software on the computer". In the early '90s Macworld had a 3-part article on how computers work that wasn't too in depth. If you want I can find it and scan it., but it's probably not too much more in depth than David Macaulay's "The Way Things Work" in the new edition. (actually it is)

18 years, 1 month

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Access to IOPAGE Registers using PDP-11 Opearting Systems

by jhfinedp3k＠compsys.to

When I run under Ersatz-11, John Wilson allows INSTALL EMEM.DLL (this was under V3.1 of E11 and hopefully soon with EMEM32.DLL under V5.1 of E11) to access many MegaBytes of PC memory via an IOPAGE register. For example: BaseReg = 177100 BaseRe2 = BaseReg+2 BaseRe4 = BaseReg+4 BaseRe6 = BaseReg+6 Mov @#BaseReg,R0 ;Get the current value from PC memory Mov R0,@#BaseReg ;Put the current value into PC memory BaseRe4 / BaseRe6 are used as a 32 bit address into the PC memory allocated during the INSTALL process. Under RT-11, direct access to the IOPAGE (address above 160000) is allowed even using VBGEXE by a reference to PREVIOUS DATA space. I have written FORTRAN IV/77 interface subroutines to allow a user to easily access that memory rather than use VIRTUAL arrays which are much slower and have much less capacity. I doubt that RSX-11 or RSTS/E allow a user access to the IOPAGE even via PREVIOUS DATA space. Can anyone confirm this assumption? Is there any fast method (only a few extra instructions) that would allow a user to reference a specific IOPAGE register from a user program? Are VIRTUAL arrays allowed in FORTRAN under RSX-11? If so, how is access to the MMU registers controlled and allowed? Johnny has helped with such RSX-11 questions in the past and the answers were appreciated very much! Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year.

18 years, 1 month

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TTL input Trinitron monitor

by ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk

I've found the Torch XXX hardware docs, which cover that little Trinitron monitor I mentioend It's quite small, probably a 12" CRT. Inside are the following PCBs : FA (PSU), with a control daughterboard. This gives 120V DC from the mains (SMPSU), all other voltages come from the flyback transformer DA (Scan) with a convergence daughterboard. CRT base (icnludes video output stages) BA (Video) H (rear panel controls) Input socket (not Sony, this is a Torch PCB) The input socket PCB connects to the video PCB by a 10 wire jumper. 4 of the wires are grounds, the 6 siganls are R, G, B, Y(== I on a CGA interface), HSynch and Vsync. The Torch socket PCB doesn't connect to the Y signal at all, but then Torch machines had analgue RGB outputs and the BBC micro had 3-bit TTL video, so this would be no problem for the intented applications. Tehre's a 3 position slide swtich on the back to select the input mode. The possiblities are analogue RGB, 3-bit TTL RGB (8 colours) and 4-bit TTL RBGI (CGA compatile, it does get the brown colour right). It's strictly TV-rates only (not EGA or VGA), but it does work with both US and European rates. -tony

18 years, 1 month

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VAXmate for Windows

by jba＠sdf.lonestar.org

> VAXmate was a 286 clone, I forget if it was 100% pc or off by a little > from the PC AT. I used to have a VAXmate when it was actually in production, but it was just our home computer. It was 100% AT compatible, and ran just about everything fine DEC did skimp, however, on the graphics. It did not fully implement CGA. I beleive it would only display 8 monochrome shades, while CGA implemented a full 16 shades. While it was compatible with all CGA software, the display sometimes left something to be desired. The ridiculous form factor left something to be desired as well. I've never liked all-in-one designs. And the VAXmate's plastics and construction could best be described as "cheap." I think the idiotic door hiding the disk drive broke off after about a month of use. jba at sdf.lonestar.org SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.org

18 years, 1 month

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*updating* 8088's

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: *updating* 8088's > From: Jim Leonard <trixter at oldskool.org> > Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 19:35:14 -0600 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >Chris M wrote: >> --- Alexis <thrashbarg at kaput.homeunix.org> wrote: >> >>> You might run into an issue of minimum clock speed >>> too. I don't know what >>> the minimum for the 386/486 is. I know RISC >>> microcontrollers can go down to >>> DC, but the 8386/486 might not. Correct they are dynamic internally. The minimum clock is far slower than most would tolerate (under 1mhz). >> Presumably the boards these things come with have >> their own crystals. I would not expect a '486 upgrade >> for a '286 to run at 8mhz or anything comparable (but >> Tony could tell us). > >They did indeed. Which brings us to why these were stopgaps at best: >The processing may have been faster, but the memory/bus interface was >the same, so you were not truly getting the overall performance of the >real machine (that's why the advertised benchmarks were careful to >demonstrate how much faster the upgraded machine was compared to how it >was before, and NOT to a "real" 386). Some resorted to PLL chips top multiply the existing clock to something fast. Allison >-- >Jim Leonard (trixter at oldskool.org) http://www.oldskool.org/ >Help our electronic games project: http://www.mobygames.com/ >Or check out some trippy MindCandy at http://www.mindcandydvd.com/ >A child borne of the home computer wars: http://trixter.wordpress.com/

18 years, 1 month

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*updating* 8088's

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: *updating* 8088's > From: "Ensor" <classiccmp at memory-alpha.org.uk> > Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2007 00:49:26 +0000 > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >Hi, > > >....but the 8088/86 was available as high as 20mhz IIRC, > >or possibly even a bit higher.... > >Hmm, I don't ever recall seeing an XT running at anything like that sort of >speed. The higest teh 8088 got in PC or clone was 12mhz. The faster parts appeared later and for the embedded cpu market. >Most "Turbo XT" motherboards which I saw topped out at 10MHz, though I have >a vague recollection of hearing about a manufacturer which produced a 14MHz >(or possibly even 16MHz) board and then had to quickly withdraw it due to >MAJOR instability problems. the biggest problem with XT and fast was teh ISA-8 bus was 8Mhz max and many older cards would get unhappy at another over that. So you set the bios for lots of waits slowing the system. >If you wanted anything faster you generally had to go to a '286 or better. more or less th case. Allison > > TTFN - Pete.

18 years, 1 month

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*updating* 8088's

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: *updating* 8088's > From: Chris M <chrism3667 at yahoo.com> > Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 14:41:39 -0800 (PST) > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >"I ran a Leading Edge model D (PC XT clone) with an >Intel Inboard-386. >It gave me 2MB ram and a 16mhz CPU (beats 4.77!) and a >bottleneck of >the 8bit ISA. However it ran winders3.1 and was a >whole lot faster >than the 4.77mhz V20. At the time it was far cheaper >than a real 386 >and much better than the 8088." > > 3.1 needed at least a 386, no? Actualy no. However it was so crippled in that mode it was near useless. It was really 386 minimum. There was Win3.0 >(prolly same requirements) and Windows/286. This >wouldn't get you the ability to run any of the above, >but the 8088/86 was available as high as 20mhz IIRC, >or possibly even a bit higher. I don't know what the >'186 capped off at (40mhz at least). > I thought you didn't like throwaway PCs Allison. What >did you finally do with that box? Let me guess, you >threw it away LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL As a matter of fact I kept the Inboard and tossed the D. Allison > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ >Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. >Make Yahoo! your homepage. >http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

18 years, 1 month

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Documentation for the AT&T Sceptre Videotex terminal

by chaosotter76＠gmail.com

I've just gotten my hands on a working AT&T Sceptre system, which is a 1983 Videotex terminal that implements the NAPLPS standard for vector graphics transmission (the same sort of graphics that was used by the Prodigy online service, if you remember that). It powers up fine and generates the welcome screen, which includes a "Press [Data] to login" message. Once you press [Data], the screen blanks, and I presume that it's trying to establish some sort of connection over the RS-232 port. I've just started poking at the thing and haven't gotten far, as I need to grab a null modem from elsewhere, but I thought there might be a chance that somebody out there has the documentation for one of these things. Through searching about, I'm fairly certain that it's hardwired to speak 1200/7E1 on the serial port, but what it's expecting to hear is the question. Just a stream of NAPLPS-encoded data? Or is there more negotiation to be done? I have at least found an online source for the NAPLPS encoding itself: http://netghost.narod.ru/gff/vendspec/naplps/naplps.txt

18 years, 1 month

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Access to IOPAGE Registers using PDP-11 Opearting Systems

by bqt＠softjar.se

"Jerome H. Fine" <jhfinedp3k at compsys.to> skrev: > When I run under Ersatz-11, John Wilson allows > INSTALL EMEM.DLL > (this was under V3.1 of E11 and hopefully soon with EMEM32.DLL > under V5.1 of E11) to access many MegaBytes of PC memory via an > IOPAGE register. > > For example: > > BaseReg = 177100 > BaseRe2 = BaseReg+2 > BaseRe4 = BaseReg+4 > BaseRe6 = BaseReg+6 > Mov @#BaseReg,R0 ;Get the current value from PC memory > Mov R0,@#BaseReg ;Put the current value into PC memory > > BaseRe4 / BaseRe6 are used as a 32 bit address into the PC memory allocated > during the INSTALL process. > > Under RT-11, direct access to the IOPAGE (address above 160000) is > allowed even using VBGEXE by a reference to PREVIOUS DATA > space. I have written FORTRAN IV/77 interface subroutines to allow > a user to easily access that memory rather than use VIRTUAL arrays > which are much slower and have much less capacity. > > I doubt that RSX-11 or RSTS/E allow a user access to the IOPAGE > even via PREVIOUS DATA space. Can anyone confirm this assumption? > Is there any fast method (only a few extra instructions) that would allow > a user to reference a specific IOPAGE register from a user program? Are > VIRTUAL arrays allowed in FORTRAN under RSX-11? If so, how > is access to the MMU registers controlled and allowed? > > Johnny has helped with such RSX-11 questions in the past and the answers > were appreciated very much! You assume correctly, in that normal, unprivileged programs cannot normally access the I/O page on a mapped RSX system. There are some different answers to how to do this in RSX. I'll try to keep it short. First of all, we have unmapped and mapped RSX systems. Unmapped systems don't use the MMU, so obviously you can access the I/O page on those systems. When we get to mapped systems, it gets trickier. First of all, privileged programs normally do have access to the I/O page. It's mapped in at APR 7 in D-space, unless you explicitly don't want it (that's something you specify when you do the task build (linking in RT-11)). Second, RSX manages memory in the form of partitions. Programs can map in memory regions which are located in partitions, as long as they have the right access privileges (they are protected by a normal protection mask, just as files). The system manager can create a special partition, which maps onto the I/O page, and then user programs can map in that region anywhere in their programs, and thus have access to the I/O page that way, if they want to. Virtual arrays in FORTRAN is mapped to a file unless I remember wrong, which means they don't have anything to do with the MMU. However, in RSX you can manipulate and remap your address space from a program if you want to. There are services in RSX to do that in a controlled way. You attach to a memory region, and then you map whatever part of that region to whatever part of your virtual address space you want to. But as I said before, in order to get access to the I/O page in this case, the system manager must have created a region which is located in the I/O page, and which users are allowed access to. With all this said and done, the "normal" way in RSX is to have a privileged program. After all, fooling around in the I/O page is likely something that "normal" programs shouldn't do, and for which privileges are a sensible way of distinguishing if a program may. I can't really say for sure about RSTS/E, but I think it's atleast somewhat similar to RSX. Johnny -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

18 years, 1 month

1
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cctalk Digest, Vol 51, Issue 62

by dm561＠torfree.net

-------------Original Message(s): Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 17:05:46 -0800 From: "Eric J Korpela" <korpela at ssl.berkeley.edu> Subject: Re: *updating* 8088's On Nov 20, 2007 5:34 AM, Cameron Kaiser <spectre at floodgap.com> wrote: > > > On the other hand, the 386SX could execute 32-bit code. That is, if > > > you had any to run in 1989. > > > > There was plenty of 32-bit code being written in 1989... just not for MS-DOS. > > What about games, DOS/4GW, ... ? I got my 386DX in 89. Very few, if any, MS-DOS games relied on 32bit extenders at that point. It cut out too much of the market that still had 16bit processors. It would have been nice not to push so hard to have 635k low memory free in order to run the latest game. The most used feature of the 386 was V86 mode, and it was mostly used to free up memory for 16bit MS-DOS programs. Eric ---------------Reply: And then there were the MMUs that gave your PC/XT/AT almost the entire 1MB for DOS, and up to 10MB or so of extended memory for running Unix, PC-MOS386 and the like on your XT (if you really wanted to)... m m

18 years, 1 month

1
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VAXmate for Windows

by dgriffi＠cs.csubak.edu

I have seven 5.25" floppies labeled as RX33K which contain: VAXmate MS-Windows v1.03 (two disks) VAXmate Info System v1.1 VT240 Emulator Update VAXmate S/A Install v1.1 VAXmate MS-DOS v3.10 All of these are labeled "For VAXmate operating environment v1.1". I don't remember where it came from, but there's been some recent talk about VAXen. Who wants these? -- David Griffith dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?

18 years, 1 month

5
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Micropolis

by blstuart＠bellsouth.net

From: Fred Cisin <cisin at xenosoft.com> > > > > > 3) What happens if you copy a -2G file to an otherwise almost full disk? > > On Tue, 20 Nov 2007, Brian L. Stuart wrote: > > It gets you another 2 gig of space, of course. This is the > > ... > > But, what is the resistor color code for negative ohms? > (Octarine?) A pigment that reflects only infrared? BLS

18 years, 1 month

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Micropolis

by blstuart＠bellsouth.net

> > 3) What happens if you copy a -2G file to an otherwise almost full disk? > > Beats me. It gets you another 2 gig of space, of course. This is the little secret of drive manufacturers. For the chip guys, it's the magic smoke. For the drive guys, they have the fabulous increases in capacity by copying files of negative size. They just want us to think it's a lot of hard work devising new ways of packing magnetic domains tighter. (Just in case the tounge-in-cheek nature fails to get throught: :-) BLS

18 years, 1 month

4
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Museum in St. Louis?

by jwest＠classiccmp.org

"Appropriate Resources" in St. Louis may potentially be available to start a public Museum of Computation History.... there are discussions going on with people who could easily make it happen in any case, but it's far too early to say anything definite. One of the things I was asked as part of a what-if scenario - Could I anticipate that some collectors on this list would be willing to loan items on an extended term for such an effort? Only top notch museum quality pieces would be sought. We'd pay 100% of the costs to have it crated, shipped, insured, etc. and also full return costs. The length of the loan might be open-ended at your preference. Surely some of you have really nice items that you don't have room for and wouldn't mind it being stored elsewhere for a while so that the public can enjoy it. If anyone has such things, could you let me know off-list? I need to find out if enough artifacts are available, how much floor space may be needed, etc. Thanks! Jay West

18 years, 1 month

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Fwd: [comp.sys.dec] four VT100 terminals free

by legalize＠xmission.com

This message has been forwarded from Usenet. To reply to the original author, use the email address from the forwarded message. Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 18:22:32 -0600 Groups: comp.sys.dec,comp.sys.dec.micro,alt.sys.pdp11,comp.os.vms From: "Lee K. Gleason" <lee.gleason at comcast.net> Subject: four VT100 terminals free Id: <ZvGdnUBzY_35td_anZ2dnUVZ_hWdnZ2d at comcast.com> ======== I'm narrowing the scope of my collection (translation - no room for everything anymore). I have four VT100s, in pretty good shape, and a few additional extra keyboards as well. Free to whoever wants to pick 'em up in Houston Texas, near TC Jester & the North Loop. First come, first served.... -- Lee K. Gleason N5ZMR Control-G Consultants lee.gleason at comcast.net

18 years, 1 month

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*updating* 8088's

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: *updating* 8088's > From: "Chuck Guzis" <cclist at sydex.com> > Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 00:47:51 -0800 > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >On 19 Nov 2007 at 23:03, Allison wrote: > >> Actually it's teh other way around the 386 was more efficient than >> 286 for the same clock speed. > >In 16-bit mode, I seem to recall that the 386SX was a travesty of a >CPU; a 16 MHz SX ran nowhere near as fast as a comparably-clocked >286. Early 386 boxes were nothing to crow about in 16-bit mode--and >a 32-bit software base pretty much didn't exist early on--and the >386SX was limited to 16MB of external memory, just like the 286. Overall it was faster if the ISA bus was 16bits. problem was at that time the code had a lot of 8088 and 286isms in it so there was often no advantage other tha internally the 386 was bit faster. In practice and I have a SIIG 3000 box (386sx) with 5mb to test on the 386 was faster but going from 12 to 16 mhz is not a large increment. >Doubtless the 386SX board designs were low-budged also, which >probably figured into things. Some 286 vendors made a big thing of >the fact that a 286 could execute 16-bit real mode code substantially >faster than the 386SX. For example: Indeed. to save money in that still expensive ram there were a lot of wait states inserted to accomodate 85ns simms. That tended to sharply nullify any internal advantage. >http://www.intersil.com/data/an/an121.pdf > >On the other hand, the 386SX could execute 32-bit code. That is, if >you had any to run in 1989. ; there in lies the point. CPUs as we well know generally run ahead as Moore predicts with software lagging behind. However, in 1989 the 386 as a huge leap ahead and sometimes over the 286 that not every one had. I did that. I went from 8088/4.77mhz XT to INboard386/16 and from there to 486DX/33. However... I didn't "buy in" to the PC world until after the WWW as CP/M z80, PDP-11 and VAX wer faster, easier or on hand where the PC offered limited or no advantage. Allison >Cheers, >Chuck >

18 years, 1 month

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What CBM Monitor is this?

by silent700＠gmail.com

I though I knew most of the CBM models, but I don't recognize this one: http://www.shopgoodwill.com/viewItem.asp?ItemID=3167507 I wrote to the seller and he gave me a part# from the back which returns nothing in Google.

18 years, 1 month

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cctalk Digest, Vol 51, Issue 59

by dm561＠torfree.net

Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 14:44:19 -0600 From: "Jason T" <silent700 at gmail.com> Subject: What CBM Monitor is this? I though I knew most of the CBM models, but I don't recognize this one: http://www.shopgoodwill.com/viewItem.asp?ItemID=3167507 I wrote to the seller and he gave me a part# from the back which returns nothing in Google. ------------- Looks like my 1702 except for the colour... Isn't there a number on the front? m

18 years, 1 month

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cctalk Digest, Vol 51, Issue 59

by dm561＠torfree.net

Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 13:58:13 -0800 (PST) From: Fred Cisin <cisin at xenosoft.com> Subject: Micropolis (was: "intelligent" disk drives >Micropolis made excellent floppy drives. It is too bad that their hard >drives sucked. I guess I've just got some bad ones then; speed's all over the place on one (belt's OK) and another one stopped altogether; when they were still working a couple of months ago, read errors were pretty common, even with cleaned heads, lubed helix screw, refreshed disks, etc. >Did anybody ever use their OS? (bundled with some of their 5.25" floppy >drives) MDOS? I've got a copy for my Vectors; boots, but I haven't gotten it to do anything; could be that the diskette doesn't have anything on it of course... Anybody know anything about this OS? Anything special that I need to do to get it to accept commands? One that I know about is DIAG, but that doesn't work either; just "Invalid command"s. m

18 years, 1 month

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*updating* 8088's

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: *updating* 8088's > From: Fred Cisin <cisin at xenosoft.com> > Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 18:31:39 -0800 (PST) > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >On Tue, 20 Nov 2007, Alexis wrote: >> I'd like to see an 80286 to 80486 upgrade card. It would need to somehow >> multiplex the 32-bit bus onto the 16-bit bus, perhaps running the >> multiplexing process at double the CPU clock speed. The SX wasn't 16-bit was >> it? Or am I thinking of the 386SX. If it's 16-bit it wouldn't need >> multiplexing. > >Depending on how you DEFINE "16 bit", the 80386SX is a 16 bit version of >the 32 bit 80386[DX]. It therefore is "relatively" easy to retrofit it to >replace a 80286. The 386SX was 32bit core with 16bit databus (modified BIU). While it was cheaper to build systems around and smaller too the performance cost was high compared to the DX. >The 80486SX and 80486DX are the same bit sizes. Their differences involve >whether or not the math FPU is included. > >I ran an 80386 board in a 5150 (8088) machine. There didn't seem to be >much point to it. > I ran a Leading Edge model D (PC XT clone) with an Intel Inboard-386. It gave me 2MB ram and a 16mhz CPU (beats 4.77!) and a bottleneck of the 8bit ISA. However it ran winders3.1 and was a whole lot faster than the 4.77mhz V20. At the time it was far cheaper than a real 386 and much better than the 8088. Allison

18 years, 1 month

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IBM PC boards offered

by wpileggi＠juno.com

Anyone interested in the following boards? If so, please email ME and make arrangements for shipping or pickup. Bill/KA3AIS Hard Card - hard disk mounted on 8 bit ISA card with controller. BSM Karddisk 20 (presumably 20 Mb.). AST RAMpage AT=Pak. "Turns your 2MB expanded memory board into a full featured multifunction product". Looks like daughter-card with manual in generic AST box. INTEL Aboveboard/PC boxed. 256kb. >> 2Mb. CGA card with composite connector RCA phono jack. 8 bit ISA. Columbia Data products. Everex Color/Monochrome card. Dual 9 pin connectors + composite RCA phono connector - switch selected. 8 bit ISA. Compaq PLUS Luggable computer...Built-in 9 inch monitor, 5.25 inch floppy, HDD. Very Dirty. _____________________________________________________________ Click now for low cost, approved defensive driving courses! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2111/fc/Ioyw6iieYCwbKw0PVYD4ROXPC8VNfhT…

18 years, 1 month

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"intelligent" disk drives

by dm561＠torfree.net

---------Original Message: Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2007 21:21:22 -0800 (PST) From: Fred Cisin <cisin at xenosoft.com> Subject: Re: "intelligent" disk drives > >As an aside, IMHO one of the worst mistakes commodore made was that the > >8050 could not at least read the disks of the earlier drives. On Sat, 17 Nov 2007, M H Stein wrote: > Sort of unavoidable because to get the 500MB/side they went to 100TPI drives. Well, 96tpi drives would give pretty much the same capacity as 100tpi ones, with only "half" as many incompatabilities. 'course, if they HAD gotten 500MB/side (v 400-500KB), then it would have been well worth it. -- Fred Cisin cisin at xenosoft.com ---------Reply: Someone actually reads my drivel? Another dent in my forehead ;-) My fingers are typing 500K and the brain, such as it is, is thinking 1/2MB... Yeah, tell me about 100TPI; a couple of us with Vector Graphics are cursing the day Micropolis came up with those; to top it off, they used hard sector diskettes (Vector - the 8050 didn't care) so the disks are almost as scarce as the drives... m

18 years, 1 month

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Micropolis (was: "intelligent" disk drives

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Micropolis (was: "intelligent" disk drives > From: Fred Cisin <cisin at xenosoft.com> > Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 13:58:13 -0800 (PST) > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >Micropolis made excellent floppy drives. It is too bad that their hard >drives sucked. > > >Did anybody ever use their OS? (bundled with some of their 5.25" floppy >drives) > It was called MDOS. Never got a chance to. Allison

18 years, 1 month

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"intelligent" disk drives

by tshoppa＠wmata.com

Chuck wrote: >Micropolis floppy drives were very well-made. I wish that modern >drives could be as well-built. All of mine are still operational. I think that like CDC/Imprimis, Seagate, Shugart, etc., Micropolis built drives to different price points for different markets. The ones built for the mini and mainframe market in the late 80's/very early 90's are true tanks and stand up very solidly here 15 or 20 years later. But by the mid-late-90's when capacity was the craze I think that some industrial-duty Micropolis drives were a little too bleeding edge. The MFM ones built for PC-clones, however, seem to simply be "above average", which is pretty good but not stellar. Tim.

18 years, 1 month

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what the heck is it

by rescue＠hawkmountain.net

I 'rescued' a unique piece of computer equipment... Here is the data: Raytheon RDS-201E (on badge on front/top) P/N G246101-3010 (from badge on rear) Model VT302 (from badge on rear) This has 2 5.25" full height floppy drives (like the original IBM PC) likely Tandon mechs ? Has a 'built in' (more like 'built on') screen. Has switches for 10 pitch/12 pitch 1/1.5/2 spacing and another I forget (they are on the monitor piece). I don't have a floppy. Ports on the back look like possibly a printer port and the other likes similar like a short printer end centronics interface. So... internet searches have turned up nada.... So.... what the heck is it ? Is it a computer ? Is it some sort of terminal ? I have no media for it... so if it is a computer, I'm doubtful I'll turn up anything for it. Same goes for the keyboard. It is a unique looking enclosure though... very very retro Help me identify what this is, and what I should do with it (if a computer and I can get media, will probably at least play with it, then if no interest find a new owner for it... if some sort of wacked out terminal... if there is no interest, I'm going to yank the drives and anything else useful and scrap it, or if feasable... maybe use it as a 'case mod' for a PC (I usually loath this... but got to admit, this would make a highly unique PC :-) ). -- Curt

18 years, 1 month

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Apple Lisa Handbook

by sellam＠vintagetech.com

This cat Michael Posner compiled a book called, "The Apple Lisa Handbook". He's an attorney by day and a geek by night. The introduction is amusing: "In the beginning there was this: 'c:\', and it was hard. But there was an answer, and it came from.....Xerox, yes Xerox. And one day Steve Jobs came to Xerox and said, 'This is great'. So Steve went back to Apple and said, let there be Lisa (allegedly his young daughter out of wedlock). And Apple labored for three years and then (without Steve, who was now raising a pirate flag over at the Macintosh Group) there was Lisa. And Lisa was cool, like no other computer ever made, before or since. But Apple lost heart and Lisa was discontinued. This hurt many people (especially those with vision and a wallet $10,000 lighter). But Lisa lives for those dedicated users. This book is dedicated to them." It's a compilation of articles and announcements from various sources including notes from Apple and magazine reviews. It has a History of Lisa section in chapter one, and includes repair and maintenance tips (towards the middle). It also has an interesting note about Lisa 1 upgrades to the Lisa 2, info I've never seen before: "Upgrades from Lisa 1.0 *To Lisa 2/5, free until June 1, 1984, $595 thereafter *To Lisa 2/10, $2495 until June 1, 1984, $2795 thereafter" The Lisa was announced in January of 1983, so this gives us a small datapoint as to when the upgrades occured (or didn't). Here's an interesting bit: "Sun Remarketing specializes in selling discontinued Apple hardware. It is the only major provider of systems and support for the installed base of 77,000 Lisas." So there were 77,000 Lisas out in the wild according to this. If correct then it was not a very rare machine by any stretch of the imagination (I literally got like 8 in one haul one time, which was distributed between several people) but they are certainly less common these days, now that all the collector's have bought them up. I wonder how many Lisa 1's sold? And then how many were upgraded to Lisa 2's? I wonder if that data still exists at Apple? I like the sell Apple in the product discontinuation letter on page 3. One section has some comments from a CompuServe forum. This one is interesting: "Sb: #121368-#Apple Drops Lisa? 05-Nov-84 18:21:55 I got my INFOWORLD last week and indeed there was a random rumor (not Dvorak) indicating that they heard from a reliable source inside Apple that Apple will drop the Lisa line in '85. Since I got my Lisa in August this year I've been very happy, but now I'm worried. I bought an IMSAI a few months before they dropped their S-100 machine, and she's still working. But it is annoying! Any info would be greatly appreciated." Ah, the good old days, when a juxtaposition between an Apple Lisa and an IMSAI 8080 was normal. Here's a really interesting tidbit: "Infocorp's Gilman estimates that the easy to use computer that inspired Lisa's development--the two year old Xerox 'Star'--has had total sales of only 2,400 units so far. But the Star has only some of Lisa's features and initially costs customers $50,000, or five times as much as Lisa, he points out. Nevertheless, 'because Apple is changing its product and its customer base with Lisa, I would expect it to get of to a slow start,' predicts E. David Crockett, a computer industry analyst at Dataquest, Inc." Wow, I didn't know the Xerox 8010 cost $50K when new. 2,400 units sold by 1983. I would say there are not that many 8010's out there based on this. They are more scarce than I thought. Read Larry Tesler's post-mortem on page 51. Really net. Anyway, an interesting read. Worth spending a few minutes going through it. BTW, check out the author's other interests: http://www.mjposner.com/ He seems to be a pretty interesting guy. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ]

18 years, 1 month

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Remembering the IBM PC | The Register

by woyciesjes＠sbcglobal.net

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/11/17/tob_ibm_personal_computer/

18 years, 1 month

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VAXmate for Windows

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: VAXmate for Windows > From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh at aracnet.com> > Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2007 22:54:12 -0800 > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >At 9:23 PM -0800 11/18/07, David Griffith wrote: >>I have seven 5.25" floppies labeled as RX33K which contain: >> >>VAXmate MS-Windows v1.03 (two disks) >>VAXmate Info System v1.1 >>VT240 Emulator Update >>VAXmate S/A Install v1.1 >>VAXmate MS-DOS v3.10 >> >>All of these are labeled "For VAXmate operating environment v1.1". >> >>I don't remember where it came from, but there's been some recent talk >>about VAXen. Who wants these? > >I assume these will only run on a VAXmate? I've only seen one >VAXmate and that was nearly 10 years ago. How good was the VT240 >emulation? VAXmate was a 286 clone, I forget if it was 100% pc or off by a little >from the PC AT. VT240 em was decent, I forget if there were any differnces. Allison > >Zane > > >-- >| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | >| healyzh at aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | >| MONK::HEALYZH (DECnet) | Classic Computer Collector | >+----------------------------------+----------------------------+ >| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | >| PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | >| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |

18 years, 1 month

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UNSUBSCRIBE CLASSICCMP sachaturgeon@hotmail.com

by sachaturgeon＠hotmail.com

From: postmaster at mail.hotmail.comTo: sachaturgeon at hotmail.comDate: Sun, 18 Nov 2007 23:38:30 -0800Subject: Delivery Status Notification (Failure)This is an automatically generated Delivery Status Notification. Delivery to the following recipients failed. bcw at u.washington.edu --Pi?ce jointe du message transmise--From: sachaturgeon at hotmail.comTo: bcw at u.washington.eduSubject: UNSUBSCRIBE CLASSICCMP sachaturgeon at hotmail.comDate: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 07:37:45 +0000 From: postmaster at mail.hotmail.comTo: sachaturgeon at hotmail.comDate: Sun, 18 Nov 2007 23:34:57 -0800Subject: Delivery Status Notification (Failure)This is an automatically generated Delivery Status Notification. Delivery to the following recipients failed. bill at booster.u.washington.edu --Pi?ce jointe du message transmise--From: sachaturgeon at hotmail.comTo: bill at booster.u.washington.eduSubject: UNSUBSCRIBE CLASSICCMP sachaturgeon at hotmail.comDate: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 07:34:56 +0000 From: postmaster at mail.hotmail.comTo: sachaturgeon at hotmail.comDate: Sun, 18 Nov 2007 23:33:10 -0800Subject: Delivery Status Notification (Failure)This is an automatically generated Delivery Status Notification. Delivery to the following recipients failed. classiccmp at u.washington.edu --Pi?ce jointe du message transmise--From: sachaturgeon at hotmail.comTo: classiccmp at u.washington.eduSubject: UNSUBSCRIBE CLASSICCMP sachaturgeon at hotmail.comDate: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 07:33:02 +0000 From: postmaster at mail.hotmail.comTo: sachaturgeon at hotmail.comDate: Sun, 18 Nov 2007 23:29:49 -0800Subject: Delivery Status Notification (Failure)This is an automatically generated Delivery Status Notification. Delivery to the following recipients failed. listproc at u.washington.edu --Pi?ce jointe du message transmise--From: sachaturgeon at hotmail.comTo: listproc at u.washington.eduSubject: UNSUBSCRIBE CLASSICCMP sachaturgeon at hotmail.comDate: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 07:29:48 +0000 UNSUBSCRIBE CLASSICCMP sachaturgeon at hotmail.comRemoves you from the list. Envoie un sourire, fais rire, amuse-toi! Employez-le maintenant! Envoie un sourire, fais rire, amuse-toi! Employez-le maintenant! Envoie un sourire, fais rire, amuse-toi! Employez-le maintenant! Envoie un sourire, fais rire, amuse-toi! Employez-le maintenant! _________________________________________________________________ Envoie un sourire, fais rire, amuse-toi! Employez-le maintenant! http://www.emoticonesgratuites.ca/?icid=EMFRCA120

18 years, 1 month

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UNSUBSCRIBE CLASSICCMP sachaturgeon@hotmail.com

by sachaturgeon＠hotmail.com

From: postmaster at mail.hotmail.comTo: sachaturgeon at hotmail.comDate: Sun, 18 Nov 2007 23:38:30 -0800Subject: Delivery Status Notification (Failure)This is an automatically generated Delivery Status Notification. Delivery to the following recipients failed. bcw at u.washington.edu --Pi?ce jointe du message transmise--From: sachaturgeon at hotmail.comTo: bcw at u.washington.eduSubject: UNSUBSCRIBE CLASSICCMP sachaturgeon at hotmail.comDate: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 07:37:45 +0000 From: postmaster at mail.hotmail.comTo: sachaturgeon at hotmail.comDate: Sun, 18 Nov 2007 23:34:57 -0800Subject: Delivery Status Notification (Failure)This is an automatically generated Delivery Status Notification. Delivery to the following recipients failed. bill at booster.u.washington.edu --Pi?ce jointe du message transmise--From: sachaturgeon at hotmail.comTo: bill at booster.u.washington.eduSubject: UNSUBSCRIBE CLASSICCMP sachaturgeon at hotmail.comDate: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 07:34:56 +0000 From: postmaster at mail.hotmail.comTo: sachaturgeon at hotmail.comDate: Sun, 18 Nov 2007 23:33:10 -0800Subject: Delivery Status Notification (Failure)This is an automatically generated Delivery Status Notification. Delivery to the following recipients failed. classiccmp at u.washington.edu --Pi?ce jointe du message transmise--From: sachaturgeon at hotmail.comTo: classiccmp at u.washington.eduSubject: UNSUBSCRIBE CLASSICCMP sachaturgeon at hotmail.comDate: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 07:33:02 +0000 From: postmaster at mail.hotmail.comTo: sachaturgeon at hotmail.comDate: Sun, 18 Nov 2007 23:29:49 -0800Subject: Delivery Status Notification (Failure)This is an automatically generated Delivery Status Notification. Delivery to the following recipients failed. listproc at u.washington.edu --Pi?ce jointe du message transmise--From: sachaturgeon at hotmail.comTo: listproc at u.washington.eduSubject: UNSUBSCRIBE CLASSICCMP sachaturgeon at hotmail.comDate: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 07:29:48 +0000 UNSUBSCRIBE CLASSICCMP sachaturgeon at hotmail.comRemoves you from the list. Envoie un sourire, fais rire, amuse-toi! Employez-le maintenant! Envoie un sourire, fais rire, amuse-toi! Employez-le maintenant! Envoie un sourire, fais rire, amuse-toi! Employez-le maintenant! Envoie un sourire, fais rire, amuse-toi! Employez-le maintenant! _________________________________________________________________ Envoie un sourire, fais rire, amuse-toi! Employez-le maintenant! http://www.emoticonesgratuites.ca/?icid=EMFRCA120

18 years, 1 month

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Compaq PLUS luggable computer offered

by wpileggi＠juno.com

Anyone interested in this unit? Please email ME and make arrangements for pickup or shipping. Bill/KA3AIS Compaq PLUS Luggable computer...Built-in 9 inch monitor, 5.25 inch floppy, HDD. Very Dirty. _____________________________________________________________ Click to learn about options trading and how to make more money from the pros. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2111/fc/Ioyw6iifU9d9smPnJ04sgcu5i2BolMF…

18 years, 1 month

1
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"intelligent" disk drives

by classiccmp＠memory-alpha.org.uk

Hi, >....I think he was joking, of course, given the >horrendous bottlenecks in its software and its bus >protocol. To be fair, the only thing wrong with the CBM serial bus was the speed it ran at....or rather the lack of it.... TTFN - Pete.

18 years, 1 month

3
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"intelligent" disk drives

by dm561＠torfree.net

Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2007 15:24:28 -0800 From: "Chuck Guzis" <cclist at sydex.com> Subject: Re: "intelligent" disk drives <snip> >Micropolis floppy drives were very well-made. I wish that modern >drives could be as well-built. All of mine are still operational. <snip> >Cheers, >Chuck ----------- Ummm... well, you're certainly entitled to your opinion... I congratulate (and envy) you! ;-) m

18 years, 1 month

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Variations on Commodore monitors

by classiccmp＠memory-alpha.org.uk

Hi, > Maybe looking at the main PCB will reveal something. The typical >Philips monitor this is likely to be based on -- the CM8883 and >related models.... As I recall, there were either 3 or 4 models based on the same design/PCB. They differed in whether they were stereo or mono, what video inputs they supported (TTL and/or analogue RGB and composite) and the tube "resolution" (dot pitch). I still use an 8833 to this day as my TV.... TTFN - Pete.

18 years, 1 month

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TTL RGB ==> PC

by julesrichardsonuk＠yahoo.co.uk

Eventually I'll be shipping various 8-bit machines to the US, and was thinking of using a PC with a TV card as a display (most of the machines have UK PAL RF outputs, and I could add modulators to the ones that don't). However: - All TV card software I've seen has been utter crap, when it even works at all. - Typically there seems to be no scaling of the picture to fill the PC screen. - There's an obvious quality drop in the RF stages. - I'm warned that the digital tuners in TV cards often have problems locking on to the weaker signal produced by home micros. So... how about hooking straight to the TTL RGB outputs of the vintage machines and somehow sampling lines of data into the PC for display in a window (with appropriate scaling in software as/when necessary so that the image more or less fills the PC display)? Surely someone's homebrewed something like this already? I presume the speeds at which things need to work can be pretty high - but in theory it's just an RGB framegrabber but without all the analogue-type circuitry needed to decode a picture? I'm planning on shipping a few TTL RGB displays to the US, but maintaining them is going to be more difficult than maintaining the machines (and I imagine there are all sorts of pitfalls in taking a US-designed TTL RGB display and trying to use it with a UK-designed micro, as the frequencies involved won't be quite the same) thoughts welcome... Jules

18 years, 1 month

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Multibus prototyping card (going soon on eBay)

by wmaddox＠pacbell.net

Augat pin-board show up with some regularity on eBay, but this one is particularly interesting because it looks to be Multibus form-factor. As of this moment, a gold scrapper is the high bidder. One of you multibus fans must certainly want it. It needs to have some wiring stripped, but it looks to be in good shape. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320181330426 MILITARY AUGAT WIRE WRAP PCB - GOLD SCRAP 1.125 LBS - (eBay item 320181330426 end time Nov-18-07 08:15:18 PST)

18 years, 1 month

1
0
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Early U.S. Robotics modems

by swtpc6800＠comcast.net

I have updated my web page on the first U.S. Robotics modems. http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/USR/USR_Modem.htm A 300 baud acoustic coupler USR-310 was only $139. The USR-330 with originate and auto answer was $324. (February 1978 prices.) I recall that someone on this list worked there in the early days. Michael Holley

18 years, 1 month

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S-100 Memory Card Design Input

by grant＠stockly.com

I posted a few minutes ago on usenet in comp.os.cpm about a big fancy S-100 memory card. If anyone in here would like to add to the feature list or suggest a change, now is the time to do it. We should probably keep the discussion in one place, and its already at comp.os.cpm, so maybe reply there? Here is the text: THIS is your chance to get in any requirements. The board will have quite a few QFP and fine surface mount parts. Hardware modifications at a later date may be hard. : ) I am designing the board around MITS S-100 specifications. I do not have any other S-100 machines or experience with them. If your IMSAI or whatever has additional I/O, then please tell me if its I/O, I, O, the pin, and what it does. For example, I really have no idea how PHANTOM works. I'm not really interested in digging up the details on how these things work since the have no meaning to an Altair. The I/O question is a biggie. Timing is not an issue since that can be worked out at a later date in the CPLD. If there is an Altair signal that is only an input and you want/need it to be I/O, I would also need to know that now. The board will have a landing for 128kbyte ($2.80) or 512kbyte ($5.10) SRAM. It will also have a landing for 512k of FLASH ($4.62). The price difference between 64kx8 and 512kx8 is $2, so it hardly makes sense to choose 64kx8... Bank swapping can/will be worked out later in the CPLD code. This board MAY have a landing for a bunch of other optional functions, but for those of you who don't care about those options, you don't need to install them. For example, two 6850 type serial ports, 4x SD cards to emulate Altair disk drive systems, mp3 decoder and ethernet ; ). Another point to discuss is if its worth having an 8MByte 8 pin soic (very small, like pinkey finger nail sized) FLASH chip tied directly to the CPLD. This would allow the 8080/Z80 to access the serial flash without AVR interference. The 4 SD cards for Altair disk emulation are not available directly to the 8080. Is it also worth having a 5th SD card also directly connected to the CPLD? How many of the 8MByte data flash chips should there be? The poor things are $2.70 a piece and we could have 4-8 and hardly notice. All of the chips will be tied together with a Xylinx MAX II CPLD, and buffered to the S-100 bus with 8T97 or equivalent ICs. As you can see I am very flexible. My goal is to create a "SuperAltair" card with a lot of universal appeal. Sort of "add the chips you want and nothing more" card. Should I throw in the functionality of the GIDE while I'm at it? Let me know what you want and I'll see if I can fit it in. The entire card will be open source, except for the ROM monitor which is IP to a fellow enthusiast. I will sell the PCBs for around $35. The CPLD is $10, SRAM/FLASH as priced above, add a few $ for heat sinks and voltage regulators and you could be started for under $60. I will be soldering the crazy surface mount parts for those who are not brave enough. ; ) Grant

18 years, 1 month

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Timex-Sinclair 1000 with chicklet keyboard

by billdeg＠degnanco.com

>Message: 8 >Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 18:48:14 -0800 (PST) >From: Sellam Ismail <sellam at vintagetech.com> >Subject: Timex-Sinclair 1000 with chiclet keyboard >To: Classic Computers Mailing List <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > > >I found the oddest thing over at my friend James' ACCRC (Alameda County >Computer Resource Center) operation. > >Walking through his office I spotted a Timex-Sinclair 1000. But this was >no ordinary TS1000. Instead of a membrane keyboard (i.e. the flat, >plastic piece of shit) it had a chiclet keyboard (i.e. the rubberized, >raised key type). I have never seen this before. > >It seems to be an aftermarket add-on. It has an adhesive on the bottom >perimeter that sticks over the original membrane keyboard. On the bottom >of each key are circular pads that press against the membrane key when the >chiclet key is depressed. It's pretty damn cool. > >Has anyone else ever seen one of these before? > >-- > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival Suntronics had a kit for a keyboard and chassis cover that fit over the original unit: http://vintagecomputer.net/sinclair/suntronics_sinclair1000_kit.jpg In addition to Suntronics Co. here is a list of other manufacturers that I know of who made add on keyboards, but some of these you also had to buy an upgraded motherboard kit: Kayde Dk'Tronics Haven Hardware Memotech Microcomputers Plus, Inc The Full Spectrum Synergistic Design Fuller Gladstone E-Z Key Research Applications Prod. -Bill Degnan

18 years, 1 month

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Commodore PET first shipemnt in mid October 1977.

by dm561＠torfree.net

Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 20:32:47 -0800 From: "Chuck Guzis" <cclist at sydex.com> Subject: Re: Commodore PET first shipemnt in mid October 1977. <snip> >I've still got a National Semiconductor LCD watch, but the guts are >rotted out from perspiration leaking into the case. On the other >hand, the Seiko self-winder I purchased the year before still works >just fine. <snip> You do mean L*C*D, right? Too bad, I've still got some National L*E*D watch modules somewhere. >I sometimes wonder if we'll have any operating 30-year old cell >phones? >Cheers, >Chuck Last time I looked, people were still buying & selling analog phones, so I suspect that in some parts of the world analog may be around for a while yet; wanna buy a dozen or so, cheap? Have I got a deal for you... I've got an old Motorola mobile phone that sits in the trunk, nice Contempra (?) handset with a number display; does that count? m

18 years, 1 month

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TTL RGB ==> PC

by melamy＠earthlink.net

Princeton Graphics did a true brown in their cga and ega monitors... at least the ones I owned. >We've been here before. The IBM color display as well as the EGA >version contains a PROM to correct the "dark yellow" color to brown. >It was duplicated on few, if any third-party units.

18 years, 1 month

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test-drb November 2007