11 Mar
2020
11 Mar
'20
12:22 p.m.
For those interested in playing with Jim's emulator, a few resources:
Bitsavers has some doco and bits:
http://bitsavers.org/pdf/prime/
http://bitsavers.org/bits/Prime/
I have been assembling what I hope will be the definitive Prime info
site. It's not complete, but contains manuals scanned by, among
others, AEK and Jim Wilcoxson, as well as material from my Prime-using
past, etc. I have more documentation and software to add as I have
time.
https://sysovl.info/reference_prime.html
Of particular use might be this writeup on installing PRIMOS Revs 22 or
23 on the emulator. It's set up for the old demo version of the
emulator, so needs a fair amount of updating, but may help get you
started. I'll work on it soonish.
https://sysovl.info/reference_prime_drb_installing_primos.html
De
11 Mar
11 Mar
12:47 p.m.
On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 03:22:31PM -0400, Dennis Boone via cctalk wrote:
Of particular use might be this writeup on installing
PRIMOS Revs 22 or
23 on the emulator. It's set up for the old demo version of the
emulator, so needs a fair amount of updating, but may help get you
started. I'll work on it soonish.
https://sysovl.info/reference_prime_drb_installing_primos.html
I got as far as MAKE options prompt. After entering:
-disk -part -dt -new -ac -badlev -baud -nin -dbs -nfl -sec
something appeared to get stuck in a loop, displaying:
Press Enter to continue, h to halt...
over and over again. I eventually resorted to killing the emulator. It
took a kill -9 to get it to end. In case it gives any clues, after killing
it the error.log contained:
-nport is zero, PNC not started
emulator: device '7 failed initialization - device removed
-tport is zero, AMLC devices not started
emulator: device '53 failed initialization - device removed
emulator: device '54 failed initialization - device removed
I did use the file names mentioned as being needed by newer versions of the
emulator, disk26u0.160m and mt0.
--
Kevin
http://www.RawFedDogs.net
http://www.Lassie.xyz
http://www.WacoAgilityGroup.org
Bruceville, TX
What's the definition of a legacy system? One that works!
Errare humanum est, ignoscere caninum.
1:01 p.m.
something appeared to get stuck in a loop, displaying:
Press Enter to continue, h to halt...
over and over again. I eventually resorted to killing
the emulator.
It took a kill -9 to get it to end. In case it gives any clues,
after killing it the error.log contained:
I've seen this behavior a few times, but didn't get it tracked down.
If the disk container file is non-zero size, the make may have worked.
Otherwise, check the top of console.log, before the spin starts, and see
if there's anything diagnostic there.
-nport is zero, PNC not started
emulator: device '7 failed initialization - device removed
-tport is zero, AMLC devices not started
emulator: device '53 failed initialization - device removed
emulator: device '54 failed initialization - device removed
This is all normal. Once you get a system built, you may want to turn
on serial terminal ports (i.e. telnet sessions) by using the -tport
option.
De
1:10 p.m.
Dennis,
On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 04:01:30PM -0400, Dennis Boone via cctalk wrote:
If the disk container file is non-zero size, the make
may have worked.
The disk container file size is zero.
Otherwise, check the top of console.log, before the
spin starts, and see
if there's anything diagnostic there.
There is nothing in the console log after the make options entry:
[CPBOOT Rev. 19.0 Copyright (c) 1990, Prime Computer, Inc.]
[BOOT Rev. 23.4 Copyright (c) 1993, Computervision Corp.]
RUN FILE TREENAME=make.save
BOOTING FROM MT0 make.save
**** MAKE <Rev. 22.1.4> **** Copyright (c) 1991, Prime Computer, Inc.
Enter command line options: -disk -part -dt -new -ac -badlev -baud -nin -dbs -nfl -sec
--
Kevin
http://www.RawFedDogs.net
http://www.Lassie.xyz
http://www.WacoAgilityGroup.org
Bruceville, TX
What's the definition of a legacy system? One that works!
Errare humanum est, ignoscere caninum.
1:32 p.m.
[CPBOOT Rev. 19.0 Copyright (c) 1990, Prime Computer,
Inc.]=20=20
[BOOT Rev. 23.4 Copyright (c) 1993, Computervision Corp.]
RUN FILE TREENAME=3Dmake.save
BOOTING FROM MT0 make.save
**** MAKE <Rev. 22.1.4> **** Copyright (c)
1991, Prime Computer, Inc.
Enter command line options: -disk -part -dt -new -ac -badlev -baud -nin -db=
s -nfl -sec
Try this instead:
$ em -boot 10005
[Prime Emulator ver 5350ae7 Feb 17 2020]
[Copyright (C) 2005-2012 Prirun LLC prirun at gmail.com]
Booting from file mt0
[BOOT Rev. 23.4 Copyright (c) 1993, Computervision Corp.]
RUN FILE TREENAME=make.save
BOOTING FROM MT0 make.save
**** MAKE <Rev. 22.1.4> **** Copyright (c) 1991, Prime Computer, Inc.
Enter command line options: -disk -part -dt -ac -badlev -baud
Note that I've changed the em command line, and the MAKE options.
De
1:48 p.m.
Dennis,
On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 04:32:00PM -0400, Dennis Boone via cctalk wrote:
Try this instead:
$ em -boot 10005
[Prime Emulator ver 5350ae7 Feb 17 2020]
[Copyright (C) 2005-2012 Prirun LLC prirun at gmail.com]
Booting from file mt0
[BOOT Rev. 23.4 Copyright (c) 1993, Computervision Corp.]
RUN FILE TREENAME=make.save
BOOTING FROM MT0 make.save
**** MAKE <Rev. 22.1.4> **** Copyright (c) 1991, Prime Computer, Inc.
Enter command line options: -disk -part -dt -ac -badlev -baud
Note that I've changed the em command line, and the MAKE options.
That might have worked. There were some prompt differences in the next
section compared to the install guide:
**** MAKE <Rev. 22.1.4> **** Copyright (c) 1991, Prime Computer, Inc.
Enter command line options: -disk -part -dt -ac -badlev -baud
Physical device? 2060
Partition name? cmddev
Disk type must be one of the following:
SMD 80MB or 300MB removable
CMD Cartridge module device
68MB 68 megabyte fixed media
158MB 158 megabyte fixed media
160MB 160 megabyte fixed media
600MB 600 megabyte fixed media
MODEL_4475 300 megabyte fixed media
MODEL_4714 84 megabyte fixed media
MODEL_4711 60 megabyte fixed media
MODEL_4715 120 megabyte fixed media
MODEL_4735 496 megabyte fixed media
MODEL_4719 258 megabyte fixed media
MODEL_4845 770 megabyte fixed media
MODEL_4721 328 megabyte fixed media
MODEL_4860 817 megabyte fixed media
MODEL_4729 673 megabyte fixed media
MODEL_4730 213 megabyte fixed media
Disk type? 160mb
Level of bad spot checking? (default = 4) 0
Baud rate? 9600
Which file sectoring scheme would you like?
Type "0" (Reverse Sector)
or "1" (Forward Sector)
0
Making 8 head partition CMDDEV
Tracks: 821
Sectors per track: 9
Partition is using Reverse Sectoring
Partition is in -All_Controller Mode
Partition size in decimal records: 58910
Unable to get badspots from device: 002060
Continuing with make. (MAKE)
Partition CMDDEV created successfully.
After the above I have a 506K disk image file. Are any changes needed to
the make options in the following section to create the paging space? Your
online guide has:
-disk -split -part -dt -new -ac -badlev -nin -nfl -sec
--
Kevin
http://www.RawFedDogs.net
http://www.Lassie.xyz
http://www.WacoAgilityGroup.org
Bruceville, TX
What's the definition of a legacy system? One that works!
Errare humanum est, ignoscere caninum.
2:03 p.m.
That might have worked. There were some prompt
differences in the next
section compared to the install guide:
Partition CMDDEV created successfully.
Yup, looks good.
Background: there were some changes from rev to rev of the options to
MAKE. E.g. some abbreviations changed or appeared. I seem to have
stuff in the howto that only works for Rev. 23 or later.
Are any changes needed to the make options in the
following section
to create the paging space? Your online guide has:
-disk -split -part -dt -new -ac -badlev -nin -nfl
-sec
These are the essential ones:
-disk -split -part -dt -badlev
Some of the others have less-abbreviated forms that would work, but are
not critical.
Note that at the "Enter command line options:" prompt, you can say
"-help" to see the syntax summary.
De
3:16 p.m.
Dennis,
On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 05:03:01PM -0400, Dennis Boone via cctalk wrote:
These are the essential ones:
-disk -split -part -dt -badlev
Some of the others have less-abbreviated forms that would work, but are
not critical.
Note that at the "Enter command line options:" prompt, you can say
"-help" to see the syntax summary.
I think I'm making progress. I don't know if I've encountered an emulator
issue, or if the primos_22.1.4_1of3.tap tape image from Bitsavers is bad. I
didn't encounter any errors unzipping the zip archive it was in. When
restoring logical tape number 2 from it, I got an MT read error:
MT Read Error 000000 000300 020350... Unrecovered
Restore aborted on: NETWORK_MGT*>ICS1DLLTSR.RUN
Unexpected EOF encountered:
NETWORK_MGT*>ICS1DLLTSR.RUN
Assuming End of Log. tape.
No LEOT record!
Illegal name.
followed by a variety of control characters and a few Unexpected EOF
encountered: errors.
--
Kevin
http://www.RawFedDogs.net
http://www.Lassie.xyz
http://www.WacoAgilityGroup.org
Bruceville, TX
What's the definition of a legacy system? One that works!
Errare humanum est, ignoscere caninum.
3:56 p.m.
I think I'm making progress. I don't know if
I've encountered an
emulator issue, or if the primos_22.1.4_1of3.tap tape image from
Bitsavers is bad. I didn't encounter any errors unzipping the zip
archive it was in. When restoring logical tape number 2 from it, I
got an MT read error:
Hm. You know, I hadn't actually fiddled with that particular tape set
very much. Poking at it now, it looks like it was written with a newer
magsav that the Rev.22 one on the tape doesn't quite grok. If you look
at the photos in the zip file, you'll see that it's not a Prime-original
tape set.
I'll see if repacking it that solves the problem, and if so I'll share
it somewhere.
The Rev.19 tape will have other variances from my howto that won't be
obvious if you haven't done PRIMOS installs before. Clearly, I'm going
to write some doco this week! :)
De
6:20 p.m.
I think I'm making progress. I don't know if
I've encountered an
emulator issue, or if the primos_22.1.4_1of3.tap tape image from
Bitsavers is bad. I didn't encounter any errors unzipping the zip
archive it was in. When restoring logical tape number 2 from it, I
got an MT read error:
I was able to reproduce the issue. When I repacked these using the
Rev. 22 MAGSAV, the install worked correctly. Here's the repacked tape
set:
https://yagi.h-net.org/m2214repack.tar.gz
Since the emulator doesn't support limiting the size of a tape, I don't
have a way to produce these things spanned across virtual reels. That
means you'll have to adjust the instructions a little. You need to read
the saves in this order:
BT
U1
U2
V1
IC
You won't have a "next reel" prompt in the middle. Each restore will be
logical tape 1.
De
6:43 p.m.
Dennis,
On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 09:20:08PM -0400, Dennis Boone via cctalk wrote:
I was able to reproduce the issue. When I repacked
these using the
Rev. 22 MAGSAV, the install worked correctly. Here's the repacked tape
set:
Many, many thanks!!! I'll give these a try tomorrow.
For some reason this week's time change feels like we lost more than an
hour. Wednesdays I go into work an hour earlier than the rest of the week.
I'm about to feed my dogs and head for bed.
--
Kevin
http://www.RawFedDogs.net
http://www.Lassie.xyz
http://www.WacoAgilityGroup.org
Bruceville, TX
What's the definition of a legacy system? One that works!
Errare humanum est, ignoscere caninum.
12 Mar
12 Mar
7:41 a.m.
Dennis,
On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 09:20:08PM -0400, Dennis Boone via cctalk wrote:
I was able to reproduce the issue. When I repacked
these using the
Rev. 22 MAGSAV, the install worked correctly. Here's the repacked tape
set:
https://yagi.h-net.org/m2214repack.tar.gz
I was able to restore from the above tapes, and have a bootable system. It
looks like the system might have an editor issue. At the tail end of the
boot, I'm getting:
OK, CO SYSTEM>ED.SHARE.COMI 7 /* Share ED editor
Not found. (CO)
ER!
I just downloaded the sample system images. I'll use those to start getting
familiar with PRIMOS, and get back to installing a system from scratch at a
later date.
Thank you for all the work you've put in to making these systems and this
wealth of PRIME information and resources available to hobbyists!!!
--
Kevin
http://www.RawFedDogs.net
http://www.Lassie.xyz
http://www.WacoAgilityGroup.org
Bruceville, TX
What's the definition of a legacy system? One that works!
Errare humanum est, ignoscere caninum.
7:51 a.m.
OK, CO SYSTEM>ED.SHARE.COMI 7 /*
Share ED editor
Not found. (CO)
ER!
To continue through to the end of the startup process, tell it:
CO CONTINUE 6
Until this is fixed, you'll have to use the non-shared editor, NSED,
instead of the shared editor ED.
Thank you for all the work you've put in to making
these systems and
this wealth of PRIME information and resources available to hobbyists!!!
Most of the credit goes to Jim, who invested a stupendous number of
hours in writing the emulator, and a bunch more in scanning a lot of
those manuals.
De
8:37 a.m.
Dennis,
On Thu, Mar 12, 2020 at 10:51:52AM -0400, Dennis Boone via cctalk wrote:
To continue through to the end of the startup process,
tell it:
CO CONTINUE 6
The system appears to have a few more issues. After the above:
CO CONTINUE 6
OK, CO SYSTEM>DSM.SHARE.COMI 7 /* Share DSM facility
Not found. (CO)
ER! CO CONTINUE 6
OK, START_DSM /* Start DSM phantoms
[START_DSM Rev. 22.1.4.R48 Copyright (c) 1991, Prime Computer, Inc.]
[Serial #IDBR-G5RKKW-J6BW (ALBERTUS MAGNUS COLLEGE)]
[12 Mar 20 10:06:44 Thursday]
DSM initialization started.
OK, /* CO SYSTEM>SPOOL.SHARE.COMI 7 /* Share SPOOL database
OK, /*
OK, /* CO SYSTEM>SPL.SHARE.COMI 7 /* Share SPL compiler
OK, /* CO SYSTEM>PLP.SHARE.COMI 7 /* Share PLP compiler
OK, /* CO SYSTEM>PMED.SHARE.COMI 7 /* Share EDS
OK, /*
OK, PROP PR0 -START /* Start PR0 printer
[PROP Rev. 22.1.4 Copyright (c) 1990, Prime Computer, Inc.]
[Serial #IDB8-G5RKKX-K90X (ALBERTUS MAGNUS COLLEGE)]
Error from Spooler (PROCESS_ASYNC-88):
Not found.: Opening environment file
ER!
*** DSMSR (user 17) at 10:06
Unable to open journal Insufficient access rights.. (
*** DSMSR (user 17) at 10:06
Error: Unable to write loaded configuration file. ()
Phantom 18: Normal logout at 10:06
Time use
*** SYSTEM_MANAGER (user 19) at 10:06
Unable to open journal DSM*>JOURNALS>SYSTEM_MANAGER.2. (Insufficient access rig
Warning: SYSTEM_MANAGER terminated. Event logging will not take place!
User 19: Phantom requested terminal input.
d: 00h 00m connect, 00m 00s CPU, 00m 00s I/O.
Phantom 19: Abnormal logout at 10:06
Time used: 00h 00m connect, 00m 01s CPU, 00m 00s I/O.
Phantom 17: Normal logout at 10:06
Time used: 00h 00m connect, 00m 01s CPU, 00m 00s I/O.
--
Kevin
http://www.RawFedDogs.net
http://www.Lassie.xyz
http://www.WacoAgilityGroup.org
Bruceville, TX
What's the definition of a legacy system? One that works!
Errare humanum est, ignoscere caninum.
4 Apr
4 Apr
2:50 p.m.
New subject: pdp11/05 key?
Does anyone have information on having a replacement PDP-11/05 key made?
--tnx
--tom
5 Apr
5 Apr
1:39 a.m.
New subject: pdp11/05 key?
I'm literally in the process of starting this.
I have a pdp11/05 and the key was snapped off. I brazed it back together.
The barrel is a three wafer unit. It is easily removable by undoing the 4
screws to remove the front panel. Removing the screws holding the micro
switches in place and removing the lock retaining plate.
I was going to take the key and barrel to a local locksmith for him to make
some spares.
Doug
On Sun, 5 Apr. 2020, 6:18 pm Tom Uban via cctalk, <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
wrote:
Does anyone have information on having a replacement
PDP-11/05 key made?
--tnx
--tom
4:06 a.m.
New subject: pdp11/05 key?
Tom said
Does anyone have information on having a replacement
PDP-11/05 key made?
--tnx
--tom
There is a bloke in France(?) who can apparently do them
https://sites.google.com/site/conservatique/keys
I managed to borrow one and my local Mister Minit keycutter had no trouble matching
the blank. It is a very short key and the pattern is very simple, you could probably
file one down if it matches the cross section. I could take some close-up photos of my
working copy (I posted the original back to its owner) if you really needed them.
Steve.
5:40 a.m.
New subject: pdp11/05 key?
That's what I did, file one down.
Bill
On Sun, Apr 5, 2020, 7:06 AM Steve Malikoff via cctalk <
cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
Tom said
Does anyone have information on having a
replacement PDP-11/05 key made?
--tnx
--tom
There is a bloke in France(?) who can apparently do them
https://sites.google.com/site/conservatique/keys
I managed to borrow one and my local Mister Minit keycutter had no trouble
matching
the blank. It is a very short key and the pattern is very simple, you
could probably
file one down if it matches the cross section. I could take some close-up
photos of my
working copy (I posted the original back to its owner) if you really
needed them.
Steve.
1503
days inactive
1528
days old
18 comments
6 participants
participants (6)
-
billdegnan＠gmail.com -
doug＠doughq.com -
drb＠msu.edu -
Kevin＠RawFedDogs.net -
steven＠malikoff.com -
tom＠figureeightbrewing.com