- cctalk - classiccmp.org

by Tom Hunter

I have been talking with Paul Anderson about some PDP-11/05 parts. End of January Paul wrote about medical problems and possible surgery. I have not been able to get in touch with him since and hope he is OK. Has anyone here heard anything about Paul since January? Thanks Tom

1 year, 1 month

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RS232 Spec

by Steve Lewis

Hey gang, a few months ago I had found the 1968/1969 document spec of RS-232. But now, I'm unable to find it again ! At Internet Archive, there is one link/reference to it, but it appears to just be the cover page (which does have the date of August 1969). I see the EIA RS-232-C spec dated from 1991 (but I think that date is just marking when EIA took over stewardship of the standard, but the spec should reflect/match the original 1969 one). In the manual for the DataSet 103C (from a few years earlier than 1969), it outlines signal lines all labeled like RS-232. But I wouldn't call it an RS-232 spec. Like most standards, it takes a number of years for a community/critical mass of products to understand it and adopt it correctly. Even ASCII wasn't globally recognized and adopted until maybe 15 years after it was introduced? So I was trying to track down the "earliest mention" of RS-232, to pinpoint it really being from 1962. Technically it appears the EIA "guards" that spec, and makes it expensive to officially download it. Maybe they took an initiative to try to scrub earlier editions from the public web, maybe that's why it's harder to find now? But I was pretty sure I found a scanned copy of it at some point (the Aug 1969 one). If anyone happens to have a printer version (of a 1969 or earlier RS-232 spec) - it would at least be nice to know that exists somewhere. I'm pretty sure that "original spec" called out +/- 3 to 25V, later ones maybe used 20V or 15V. -Steve

1 year, 1 month

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PDP-8 and PDP-12 Paper Tape Images Posted (Re: Paper Tape Reader Needed)

by Jay Jaeger

I have posted my PDP8 and PDP12 paper tape images onto my Google Drive (where they are also available to CHM/Al Kossow for their "bits" collection. https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B2v4WRwISEQRWWFFdVpCZWFTZEU&resourcekey=0… Look in bits/DEC/pdp8 and bits/DEC/pdp12 for folders "From_JayJaeger". There is a PDF of the contents of BOTH directories in each one (it is the same PDF in each case). JRJ

1 year, 1 month

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Re: RS232 Spec

by donald donaldwhittemore.com

FWIW, both Grok and ChatGPT say the same thing. The RS-232 standard was first described in 1960 by the Electronic Industries Association (EIA). Its full original designation was EIA RS-232, where “RS” stands for Recommended Standard.

1 year, 1 month

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Looking for Tiny BASIC Extended source code

by Eric Scharff

Many years ago (March 2007 to be precise), I posted to this mailing list because I had typed in (by hand) the octal listing of TBX (Tiny BASIC Extended) from Dr Dobbs Vol. 1 No. 1, pp 16-17( It turns out that this 8080 code basically worked and I was able to verify it in a Z-80 simulator. Fast forward to 2025, and I have rediscovered this code and posted it to GitHub. I have also included an 8080 emulator in JavaScript so you can run TBX in your browser: https://github.com/ericscharff/tinybasic While keying in two pages of octal listings was an interesting exercise, I’m less keen to type in the source code for TBX, which appeared in Vol 1 No 2, pp 13-31. I’d like to preserve this source code alongside the octal dump in my github repository. Does anyone happen to have a listing of this source code in ASCII, or perhaps access to high quality OCR software that could perhaps automate the job? The closest I can find is on Whipple’s own web site athttps://whippleway.com/Source_Code/TBX.asm Which seems quite close, but is missing things from the first TBX (e.g., FOR / NXT loops) Many thanks, -Eric

1 year, 1 month

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SLIP TCP/IP stack for PRO/VENIX

by Cameron Kaiser

Way back when, I asked on the list about null modems for the DEC Pro which I planned to use for experiments with SLIP. PRO/VENIX doesn't have any network capability other than UUCP, and it doesn't seem like anything else supports the Ethernet CTI card other than P/OS (of course) and the unofficial 2.9BSD, but I like PRO/VENIX V2.0 better because it's a real System V. Anyway, here's a simple implementation with four clients (ping, DNS, NTP and command-reply TCP) which runs over the printer port at the standard 4800bps. That keeps the main serial port free as a second terminal and for Kermit. Getting it to work with both the PRO/VENIX Rev. 2.0 and V2.0 compilers (i.e., older-than-V7 and System V respectively) was interesting. Unfortunately Xhomer's serial port emulation isn't good enough for this yet; many dropped bytes. It works fine with my real DEC Pro 380. https://oldvcr.blogspot.com/2025/04/lets-give-provenix-barely-adequate-pre.… https://github.com/classilla/bass -- ------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ -- Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser(a)floodgap.com -- God made the integers; all else is the work of Man. -- Kronecker -----------

1 year, 1 month

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VCF East 2025 Survey Results

by Jeffrey Brace

VCF East 2025 Survey results: https://www.surveymonkey.com/stories/SM-chUD9AoxbzNkIk230AwghQ_3D_3D/ Jeff Brace VCF East Showrunner

1 year, 1 month

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System Source Swap Meet April 26 & 27, 2025 (Hunt Valley, MD)

by Jeffrey Brace

More info here: https://ca.syssrc.com/wp/?page_id=105&civiwp=CiviCRM&q=civicrm%2Fevent%2Fin…

1 year, 1 month

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VCF East photo gallery

by William Sudbrink

Commodore Z has put up a very nice gallery of photos of VCF East 2025: https://www.commodorez.com/VCFEXX/index.html Bill S. -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com

1 year, 1 month

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RK11-D register address assignment

by Jos Fries

The "RK11-D and RK11-E moving head disk drive controller manual" (EK-RK11D-MM-002) states in par. 2.5 (Installation Procedure) that the register and vector addresses of a RK11-D can be configured by "seven interrupt vector address jumpers and eight address selection jumpers of the M7257". The manual however doesn't state the address range that can be configured by these jumpers and refers to engineering drawing D-CS-M7257-0-1 for that information. I found these drawings in the RK11-D Engineering Drawings but cannot find information in them on the valid address ranges. Therefore my question: what is the address range a RK11 controller can be configured for?

1 year, 1 month

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Looking for VAX/VMS v4.x Software

by Christian Gauger-Cosgrove

Greetings, Long story short, as the subject line says, I'm looking for some VAX/VMS v4 era software. I've been working on putting together a "turnkey" VMS v4.7 system — I've mentioned it over on the SIMH mailing list once or twice, and if anyone is on the ClassicCMP Discord server, Mainframe Enthusiasts Discord Server, or DEC Discord¹, you've likely seen me mention it multiple times — and I'm currently trying to copies of some of layered products. To the crux of the issue, does anyone here have — as an image, or media that they are are willing to image/have imaged — the installation media for the following software for VAX/VMS v4.x? • VAX NOTES • VAX P.S.I. • VAXset/DECset — specifically the Language Sensitive Editor • CGRAF and CIMI And just because I have a deep loathing for myself: • Eunice I'm also always open to any other software for VMS v4.x if anyone has any they want to share. Best regards, Christian ¹: "The Digital Equipment Corporation Fan Spot", as it's named properly. -- Christian M. Gauger-Cosgrove STCKON08DS0 Contact information available upon request.

1 year, 1 month

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ThornEMI Datatech 9800 9-track tape drive

by Lothar Schröder

G'day, I have a ThornEMI Datatech 9800 9-track tape drive. Has anyone a user- or service-manual or a description how to load a tape? This drive can load the 7" 9-track tape reels and has an industrial interface with edge-connectors P1 and P2. Thanks in advance Lothar

1 year, 1 month

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VCF West 2025, Exhibit Registration Open - August 1-2 - Computer History Museum

by Jeffrey Brace

VCF West 2025 Exhibit Registration Now Open!!! VCF West is August 1-2 at the Computer History Museum Register an exhibit here: https://forms.gle/vQj4PUJCidjFt9GF8

1 year, 1 month

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Is the mailing list down?

by Tom Hunter

I have received no messages for a while. Is the list down? Thanks Tom

1 year, 2 months

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classiccmp test mail

by P Gebhardt

Hi list, since I am not getting any emails from our classiccmp mailing list anymore since mid of March, I would like to send this test email and see if it arrives and gets back to me. Appologies for the noise created. Pierre ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.digitalheritage.de

1 year, 2 months

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Re: Paper Tape Reader Needed

by Anders Nelson

Oh right, that's an important piece haha. I imagine fusing that Arduino project mentioned earlier in the thread with an SPI RAM chip and little extra firmware should be able to grab any length of tape one may have. -- Anders Nelson On Sun, Apr 13, 2025, 4:59 PM Mike Katz <bitwiz(a)12bitsbest.com> wrote: > Plus the circuit and software to operate it and convert the data to serial > or USB CID. > > On Apr 13, 2025 3:10 PM, Anders Nelson via cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> > wrote: > > Here's a super cheap reader assembly you could bolt to a board, then hang > your supply reel from a bolt stuck in it if you're looking for the lowest > cost option: > > https://www.ebay.com/itm/224491588288 > -- > Anders Nelson > > On Sun, Apr 13, 2025, 6:49 AM Martin Bishop via cctalk < > cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > The Sanyo Denki readers I have known use sprocket wheel feed, an > > additional means of damaging tapes. > > > > The Fanuc readers use a friction pinch, "rubber on steel", so they can't > > "saw" the tapes. > > > > Perhaps a consideration - if one has a choice > > > > Martin > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Chuck Guzis via cctalk [mailto:cctalk@classiccmp.org] > > Sent: 13 April 2025 02:18 > > To: Ethan Dicks via cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> > > Cc: Chuck Guzis <cclist(a)sydex.com> > > Subject: [cctalk] Re: Paper Tape Reader Needed > > > > My PT reader is a Sanyo Denki, from a piece of CNC gear. (Bitsavers has > > some docs on those), Added a +5/+24 power suppy and a STM32 "Blue Pill" > > MCU interfacing as a USB communications device. > > > > Easy peasy and woks a treat. > > > > --Chuck > > > > >

1 year, 2 months

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Re: Selling Off My Q-Bus Collection

by donald donaldwhittemore.com

You may want to contact Dave. I believe he is doing things with this stuff. Ex-Microsoft software engineer. On X he is <https://x.com/davepl1968/status/1683904668127358976?s=58> Dave W Plummer<https://x.com/davepl1968?s=58> ⁦‪@davepl1968‬⁩<https://x.com/davepl1968?s=58>

1 year, 2 months

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VCF East 2025 is on The Verge!

by Jeffrey Brace

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4BTxddKZbhA VCF East was a great success with great speakers, exhibitors, classes, consignment and attendees! Thanks to all the volunteers who helped make this show happen. I couldn't have done it without you! Also check out other videos from VCF East: https://vcfed.org/vcf-east-2025-videos/ and articles on the show: https://vcfed.org/vcf-east-2025-articles/ Jeff Brace VCF East Showrunner

1 year, 2 months

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Re: Paper Tape Reader Needed

by Martin Bishop

Folks The jpg I posted previously https://www.emeritus-solutions.com/papertape/fanuc/Pic16F13145FanucInterfac… says it all cryptically To unpack the approach: - ex CNC machine paper tape readers are available, the Fanuc ones are both common and susceptable to house training - so 1) is buy a fanuc PTR + interface : part nos and current picks below - the required supplies are 200 V 50/60 Hz ~23W, 24V DC at ~1A2, 5V DC ~325 mA - the Fanuc interface board is https://www.emeritus-solutions.com/papertape/fanuc/A20B-0007-075D_Ptr_Inter… series 74 TTL IO - my interface bodgit uses a PIC16F13145 EVB as it has 5V IO (which is just the thing for series 74) and some CLBs (a joke, but you have to walk the ground) - so 2) you need a https://www.microchip.com/en-us/development-tool/ev06m52a to convert parallel octets into serial output - the interconnect board is connectors and wiring, the one illustrated is built for ease rather than compactness - so 3) DIY time, [DrB] the wire list for marrying PTR and PIC[DrB] is in the .zip - a project archive for the PIC containing sources and binary is available for download https://www.emeritus-solutions.com/papertape/fanuc/FanucInterFace1.zip should contain working code for MPLAB/X - my Fanuc zoo https://www.emeritus-solutions.com/papertape/fanuc/visualise.php depicts the interconnect board https://www.emeritus-solutions.com/papertape/fanuc/Pic16F13145FanucInterfac… https://www.emeritus-solutions.com/papertape/fanuc/Pic16F13145FanucInterfac… FWIW I usually use a Zynq to interface PTRs, this design was an exploration of the 16F13145's capabilities, serendipitously providing a "uart" on an EVB solution The PTRs run the capstan continuously, the pinch roller is engaged by the centre off switch on the front panel: Manual - feeds tape, but does not assert DataValid; Auto - feeds tape and asserts DataValid. The PIC outputs octets when DataValid is asserted. The pinch roller is engaged when Auto or Manual is selected. The Brake Clamp is engaged when the NO foot pedal is closed. The PT feed is friction, the reader is opto with LED illumination. The A02B-0047-C061 is compact https://www.emeritus-solutions.com/papertape/fanuc/A02B-0047-C061_Ptr_Front…, but may not come with a Fanuc interface card A20B-007-075D https://www.emeritus-solutions.com/papertape/fanuc/A20B-0007-075D_Ptr_Inter… (which you will need). The A13B-0070-B001 is a 6U 19" rack panel https://www.emeritus-solutions.com/papertape/fanuc/A13B-0070-B001_Ptr_Bin_F… typically the interface card is attached to this panel So, picks from eBay.com are: https://www.ebay.com/itm/126851010269 https://www.ebay.com/itm/393980423195 although I have no idea if the PSU is any more than an ornament https://www.ebay.com/itm/233194641467 or https://www.ebay.com/itm/304005388602 plus https://www.ebay.com/itm/184870581852 or https://www.ebay.com/itm/293557099779 or with a diy panel https://www.ebay.com/itm/224491588288 etc etc More than one set of bits may be required to eliminate squeaks, but the simple PTRs usu seem to work Also, https://www.ebay.com/itm/150974081687 is RtR and uses the same IO interface card as its lesser siblings - I'm (still) reverse engineering the push button and remote logic which is for CNC Gcode use cases https://www.ebay.com/itm/167311496458 is 2nd generation RtR and I have yet to make mine work ...; item zero is stw a (mechanically damaged) AC PSU ... HtH, Fanuc also made a PPR Punch Printer Reader with a serial (usu 4800) baud interface https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/405256535393 This cookery makes serviceable PTRs out of inexpensive pre used readers - ten times cheaper than a PPR ? And of course my wiring sheet tells you how to hook up to your favorite hardware - game on ? Martin -----Original Message----- From: Mike Katz [mailto:bitwiz@12bitsbest.com] Sent: 11 April 2025 15:59 To: Martin Bishop <mjd.bishop(a)emeritus-solutions.com> Subject: Re: [cctalk] Paper Tape Reader Needed I'm intrigued... On 4/11/2025 5:54 AM, Martin Bishop wrote: > Mike > > If a clone of https://www.emeritus-solutions.com/papertape/fanuc/Pic16F13145FanucInterfac… would solve your problem I'm happy to share the cookery. > > With 60 Hz AC 300cps to a serial port (USB C); the 1/4" jack is for a foot pedal "hold". > > For US sources of readers see eg : https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=fanuc+tape+reader - $50 to $3000 for the same thing ... > > Martin > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mike Katz via cctalk [mailto:cctalk@classiccmp.org] > Sent: 10 April 2025 17:10 > To: Tony Duell via cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> > Cc: Mike Katz <bitwiz(a)12bitsbest.com> > Subject: [cctalk] Paper Tape Reader Needed > > I have acquired a bunch of PDP-8 and PDP-12 paper tapes and I need a reader so that I can archive them. > > Does anyone have a serial (RS-232) or USB reader or reader/punch that needs a good home or can be purchased for a reasonable price? > > Thank you, > > Mike > bitwiz(a)12bitsbest.com

1 year, 2 months

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Re: Why I am not worried about AI taking over the world!

by John Foust

At 12:39 PM 4/9/2025, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: >I'll continue to play with it but my initial reactions still stand. >No sign of intelligence and not ready for prime-time. What did you ask it to do? Exactly, I mean? When it didn't give you the answer you wanted, what did you say next? It would not surprise me if comp-sci departments now offer a major in writing GPT queries. Today's AI wranglers might be writing queries that range from a few words to a many pages of text. They're also having a conversation with it to refine their query. It's more than google.com circa 2005. Many of us spent years learning how to get better results from Google more often, after all. I don't have a problem with skepticism about it. Call it a parlor trick all day long, tell me it's not *truly* intelligent, but you should also examine it enough to get to the point where you'll say "that's truly an amazing and perhaps sometimes very useful parlor trick." - John

1 year, 2 months

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VCF East 2025 Post Event Survey

by Jeffrey Brace

Please take a few minutes to complete this anonymous survey about VCF East 2025. Your feedback is important and helps us in planning the next event. https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/YFLSKSW Thanks! Jeff Brace VCF East Showrunner

1 year, 2 months

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Altair BASIC Source Code released

by Murray McCullough

I wonder if this helped start the microcomputer revolution, OS-side, or was this a re-hash of what already was available? It's a historical event as per se but much more than that I'm not sure! Happy computing! Murray 🙂

1 year, 2 months

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Teletype in Cleveland

by Henry Bent

Not my listing, but I thought I would pass it on in case others were interested. https://nextdoor.com/for_sale_and_free/954bf8cc-66d6-4f41-a447-9c6aaae42ea3… -Henry

1 year, 2 months

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Why I am not worried about AI taking over the world!

by Bill Gunshannon

So, I am working on another fun project on my trusty old TRS-80's. I need the ability to do multi-line functions which TRS-80 BASIC does not support. But in hopes of finding something where someone added that capability in the distant past (there were lots of features added by various people over time) I decided to just try a Google Search. As we all know Google now begins results with an AI generated answer to your question. This is what I got: -------------------------------------------------------------------------- In TRS-80 BASIC, you can create multi-line functions (subroutines) using the DEF FN statement, allowing you to define a function that can perform a specific task and be called from different parts of your program. Here's how it works: DEF FN Statement: You use the DEF FN statement to define a function, followed by the function name (e.g., FNMyFunction), a set of parentheses for any arguments, and then the code that the function will execute. Example: 10 DEF FNC(X,Y) = X*X + Y*Y defines a function named FNC that takes two arguments (X and Y) and returns the sum of their squares. Function Call: To use the function, you simply call it by its name, passing in the necessary arguments. Example: 20 PRINT FNC(3,4) would print the value returned by the FNC function when called with arguments 3 and 4, which is 25. Multi-line Functions: You can extend the DEF FN statement to span multiple lines, allowing for more complex logic within the function. Example: Code 10 DEF FNC(X,Y) 20 LET TEMP = X * X 30 LET TEMP = TEMP + Y * Y 40 DEF FN END 50 PRINT FNC(3,4) This example defines a function that calculates the sum of squares of two numbers, but the calculation is broken down into multiple lines for readability. Key Points: Line Numbers: TRS-80 BASIC relies on line numbers, so make sure to use them appropriately when defining multi-line functions. Function Name: Function names must start with FN followed by a valid identifier (e.g., FNC, FNMyFunction). DEF FN END: You need to use DEF FN END to mark the end of the function definition, especially when using multi-line functions. Scope: Functions are defined within the scope of the program and are accessible from anywhere in the program. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Which is both wrong and totally absurd. And I see things all the time about letting AI write your code for you. Does anyone actually trust AI to write code? bill

1 year, 2 months

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Re: Philips P3800 key lock swtch

by donald donaldwhittemore.com

Lishi tools can decode the bitting. Surprised the locksmith did not use them. Just need to identify the keyway style. https://covertinstruments.com/collections/lishi-tools

1 year, 2 months

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Re: Altair BASIC Source Code released

by Alan Frisbie

Bob Grabau <rgrabau1(a)verizon.net> write: > As my memory serves, there was a class given by the Southern > California Computer Society (SCCS) in which the disassembled the > Altair Basic (not sure if it was the 4k or 8k version) and used the > output of that disassembly for the class. There was a guy who had the > complete annotated (by the class) of the source as printed out copies > in his trunk, which he just handed out to anyone that asked for it. > This was somewhere between 1975-1978 (76-77 most likely) when I was a > member of SCCS. I was part of that disassembly effort and remember it well! I'm pretty sure I still have my copy of it stashed away here. It was a lot of fun. I had been a very early (1974) user of the 8080 at NCR, and this gave me a chance to contribute to the knowledge base. One thing I intend to do with this listing is find a piece of code I worked to disassemble, and read the comments. As I recall, it was part of some error handling. It consisted of a string of three-byte instructions that did nothing important, but if you jumped into the second byte of one, it would (as I recall) act as a two-byte instruction and load a register with an error code. After executing that 2/3 instruction, it fell into the remaining string of three-byte instructions which did nothing of interest. At the end, it would take the value that had been loaded earlier and use it. I was simultaneously impressed and appalled by this space-saving coding technique. I'm disappointed that two printer pages are combined into a single PDF page, as it makes it a bit difficult to read. Still, it is a great window into the minds of Bill, Paul, and Monte. Alan Frisbie

1 year, 2 months

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Re: Why I am not worried about AI taking over the world!

by John Foust

"Ancient BASIC dialects" seems like a rather small obscure domain and as they say, they're not making any more of them. I'd think that if you trained an AI on enough examples, they'd do much better. The BASIC language isn't that complex compared to modern languages where people are finding AI as a useful assistant, like it or not. Think of it like old-school "pair programming" that gives you a friend in your cube to talk to. - John

1 year, 2 months

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DCK11 doc

by dstalkowski＠ody.ca

I have a scan of the following: LSI-11 BUS INTERFAE CHIPKIT/PROGRAM CONTROL DCK11-AA,-AC October, 1977 Phil Champaigne Logic Products MR2-2/X6645 If someone is interested in a copy, preferably someone who can host it, please contact me. don

1 year, 2 months

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Re: DEC Unibus variants

by shadoooo

The why not use a UniBone comment has merit, what will your (FPGA) > implementation add ? > Well, I know the Unibone! Surely is a very capable system for emulation of older hardware and interfaces. Also performances are good as far as I understand (I don't have one). I have the idea of extending the concept of Unibone. The new design shall be modular, composed by: - a main board hosting the SoM and common interfaces (Ethernet, SD, USB, console) - a bus module for specific bus / machine: support could be added for DEC / Data General / other? - an interchangeable interface module for an hardware device (SMD, Pertec, floppy, RX1/2, RL01/02, other). Any kind of interface could be supported, also for example ADC, DAC, maybe video to some limits...) If you have main module and bus module, you have a similar solution to Unibone / Qbone. However if you need to change bus type, you need to swap only the bus adapter (cheaper). If you have main and interfaces modules, you can control physical devices directly, and do anything with it. For example, you can dump / restore the content of a SMD disk at bit level, no need to know the controller format, etc. Similar to Kyroflux for floppy, but MUCH faster! Alternatively, you could also emulate the device at low level (for example a generic SMD disk). If you have a set of main, bus and interface modules, you can do anything as above, plus you can emulate a controller for a specific machine for a specific device. That said, implementing "anything" would be an infinite effort, but the platform is flexible, so support could be added step-by-step. So why an FPGA? A programmable logic can implement a true digital circuit, where the PRUs in the BeagleBone are processors. This means that in an FPGA the time is always precisely determined by a clock, in PRUs it is affected by the software execution. This means that a PRU can work quite well on an asynchronous bus, provided that sample rate is sufficient, even if not constant. But for a fast synchronous interface, i.e. when time is determined by an external clock, often embedded with data, no software approach can work steadily in my opinion. One thing is true: programming an FPGA is designing a netlist, not developing a software. It can be very hard to debug sometimes, because the approach is more similar to repairing an old board with a Logic Analyzer than perform debugging in software: it's a circuit in a chip, there no step-by-step execution! Nevertheless: I'm a quite good electronic engineer, highly experienced with digital logic and FPGA, so the hardware design wouldn't be a problem. Just a matter of time. Nowadays a SoM with a smaller AMD Zynq7010/7020 (a system-on-chip including an FPGA, plus dual core CPU, lot of peripherals) doesn't cost a lot, and have a great usage flexibility. Also brute computing power is superior to older BB. Why not try? I'm open to your comments. As for the UNIBUS unobtainable transceivers: I think the best solution is to use AM26S10 for drivers, and an LVC logic powered at 3.3v for receivers. Both are active parts costing nuts. I would try this approach. Andrea

1 year, 2 months

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DEC Unibus variants

by shadoooo

Hello, I'm searching information about all existing variants of DEC Unibus in Dual/Quad/Hex flavors. I read the "UnibusSpec1979.pdf" on bitsavers, which reports a "Standard Unibus" pinout in the last pages. However in several backplanes "Small Peripheral Controller", "Modified Unibus Device" and "Extended Unibus" are supported. Maybe also other unlisted Unibus variants do exist (e.g VAX 11/730)? I also found the gunkies.org WIKI very helpful, however it is still quite difficult to compare the pinout differences (dummy proof). Where could I find a specific DEC documentation about the more recent variants, similar to the 1979 specs, but referred to SPC, MUD, EUB, ect? Big doubts: - why DEC, having defined the dual Standard pinout, had then to implement the quad SPC backplanes? - why DEC, having defined quad backplanes, had then to implement the hex (standard + SPC) or (MUD + SPC) or EUB? I mean: given that in AB all Unibus signals are present (from specifications), what is the need for CDEF? Provided that several signals are duplicated in hex pinout, the backplane will connect homologue signals together, or AB bus will always be separated from CDEF bus? My aim is to design a reprogrammable digital logic board which could be employed in any system, using 18bits address or also 22bits (i.e. for 11/24). Thanks Andrea

1 year, 2 months

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Re: Wanted : Philips PSU-B3 (or -B4?) power supply for the P3800

by Fred Jan Kraan

Tony Duell wrote: > I am working on a Philips P3800 computer, about 40 years old. It's a > multiprocessor Turbodos machine, a mix of Z80's and 80186's There is some P3500/3800 documentation online, including power supplies (Netzteile) at: https://electrickery.nl/comp/divcomp/doc/index.html Not exactly what you asked for, but related. Fred Jan

1 year, 2 months

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Wanted : Philips PSU-B3 (or -B4?) power supply for the P3800

by Tony Duell

I am working on a Philips P3800 computer, about 40 years old. It's a multiprocessor Turbodos machine, a mix of Z80's and 80186's The main problem is that I only have half the power supply. I have the PSU-M3 battery-backed memory supply, but not the logic supply. This I believe to be a PSU-B3 module, although from the circuit diagrams I have, I think a PSU-B4 would work. Outputs are +5V, +12V, -12V, +24V and maybe -5V. There's also remote on/off control, so it's not trivial to use a different power supply The base board is a 233*160mm double eurocard wth a 96 pin 0.1" pitch DIN41612 connector for the outputs and a 32 pin 0.2" pitch DIN41612 connector for the mains input. There is probably another board stacked on top of it (connected only to the baseboard, not to the backplane) and there may be a metal plate on top of the lot. Please let me know if you have any idea where to find one. -tony

1 year, 2 months

1
0
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KZCCA scsi/ethernet card - VMS driver needed

by Jim Bender

Help needed! Nemonix NXETHER41/NXSCSI41 Intraserver KZCCA DEC/Compaq KZCCA All the same board, sold under multiple brands, the most prominent listed here. Differences are mostly labeling and branding. Looking for what is turning out to be an unicorn... I have a Microvax 3100-90 with the Nemonix NXETHER41 version of the card in it. This is the "ethernet only" version of this option card. It was also available with a SCSI adapter on it. As was the case with many hardware options back in this era, this card, no matter which flavor you have needs a driver installed in VMS in order for it to function. The driver was distributed as a vmsinstal package called "VAX_SCSI" and despite the name it included the drivers for the ethernet side of the board as well as the SCSI. It appears to have had multiple versions, 1.4, 1.5 and 1.6. 1.6 is the latest I have been able to find evidence for. What I have not been able to find evidence of is the files themselves. Despite the Nemonix website still being up, it appears to be a ghost town and none of the phone numbers or email addresses work. The web archive shows some Intraserver pages from the early 2000s with links to download the files but the files themselves were not archived. And unfortunately, DEC/Compaq did not see fit to include this on the CONDIST CDs. So my plea to the community here is... does anyone have the drivers for this card or any leads to where it could be found? Thanks! Jim

1 year, 2 months

1
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Consignment at VCF East 2025 - April 4-6 - Wall, NJ

by Jeffrey Brace

Just a few days left to get your consignment entered into NexoPOS for VCF East 2025! https://vcfed.org/events/vintage-computer-festival-east/vcf-east-consignmen… Get your tickets here: https://events.humanitix.com/vintage-computer-festival-east-2025 Info: https://vcfed.org/events/vintage-computer-festival-east/

1 year, 2 months

1
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InversePhase @ VCF East - April 5 - Wall, NJ

by Jeffrey Brace

Want to know what a chiptune is? How about what a chiptune is not? You can learn a little bit about the technology, its history, how it makes sounds, how it is implemented, and the culture surrounding it at this panel. All ages and experience levels are welcome! And ... After his talk, make your own chiptunes! What’s the deal with all these 8-bit whipper-snappers and their beeps, boops, and farty bass?Want to know what a chiptune is? How about what a chiptune is not? You can learn a little bit about the technology, its history, how it makes sounds, how it is implemented, and the culture surrounding it at this panel. All ages and experience levels are welcome! @inversephase is a real human person (not a robot, as you might have heard) who writes game soundtracks and chiptune tributes for a living, runs Bloop Museum, eats pizza, and even occasionally writes Bios. INFO: https://vcfed.org/events/vintage-computer-festival-east/ TICKETS: https://vcfed.org/2025/03/16/non-member-ticket-pricing-vcf-east/ VCF East is April 4-6 2201 Marconi Road Wall, NJ 07719

1 year, 2 months

1
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IBM 1410 FPGA Implementation Update

by Jay Jaeger

I have made some progress on my IBM 1410 FPGA implementation: - Communication between the FPGA and PC Support Program is now over UDP instead of USB/Serial - Tapes can now read/write reliably in non-overlapped mode - Diagnostics can be loaded and run from tape - Some tape issues still remain See https://www.computercollection.net/index.php/ibm-1410-fpga-implementation/ (especially the last three entries in the list.) JRJ

1 year, 2 months

1
0
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Amiga Roundtables at VCF East April 5 & 6 - Wall, NJ

by Jeffrey Brace

VCF East 2025 is April 4-6. Amiga Roundtables at VCF East Moderated by Dave McMurtrie and Dan Wood. *Saturday roundtable* includes: RJ Mical Dale Luck Ron Nicholson Glenn Keller Andy Finkel Jeff Porter Randell Jesup Peter Cherna *Sunday Roundtable* includes: RJ Mical Dave Haynie David John Pleasance Robert Miranda Hedley Davis Jeff Bruette Don Gilbreath Tickets here: https://vcfed.org/2025/03/16/non-member-ticket-pricing-vcf-east/ Info here: https://vcfed.org/events/vintage-computer-festival-east/

1 year, 2 months

1
0
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Pacific Data Systems - PDS 1020

by Martin.Hepperle＠dlr.de

Many moons ago, I was working at a wind tunnel for aeronautic research. In the first week, when I started on my job, my future colleagues threw a lot of outdated computer stuff into a large dumpster. Only many years later, after I became more aware of old computing technology, I realized what that trash was. Duh! I recently dug through our library and loaned some reports describing the equipment and the software at the time. Besides several HP 2116, ASR-33, Tektronix 40xx, x-y plotters and more, I also read about their first (pre HP) computer, which was used to control data acquisition and postprocessing. It was installed in 1966 and replaced by a HP 2116C in 1972. This was a Pacific Data Systems PDS 1020. It was built into a table and featured an IBM typewriter for printed output and a reader and a punch for papertapes. One report also contained the "listing" of the program, which is a 4-character hexadecimal dump (with unusual hex digits). To give you a "feeling" for the code, here is an example subroutine: 0256 L0LS 5001 0258 525S- L0LS M029 CS7D 2260 L0LA M029 CS7D 0260 L011 3002 L0C3- A26M- CS81 3S5A- 7262- 227C 0268 0000 4500 2000 0500- 3000- 4000- 5500- On bitsavers I found scans of some manuals with the instruction set and encoding. However, these lack complete programs. Therefore, I have scanned and re-typed the original programs from my report in their original form. Now I am thinking about writing a simple simulator to read and execute these programs. The PDS 1020 seems to have been a relatively low cost and hence successful computer, but searching the internet I can find only two machines which seem to be in museums. Maybe a few more have survived in personal collections. #1: https://www.computerhistory.org/collections/catalog/102686768 #2: https://collections.museumsvictoria.com.au/items/397741 Are there more? Are some of them in working order? Is there already a simulator available? Martin

1 year, 2 months

1
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Re: FD-55B head loose

by Gregory Beat

TEAC FD-55F floppy drives https://retrocmp.de/fdd/teac/fd55f.htm The TEAC FD-55F never appeared in the world of IBM compatible computers. Why is that? Because it was simply superfluous in the DOS world. The TEAC FD-55F is a double-sided 5.25 inch drive that can write 96 tracks per inch (TPI) with 9 sectors per track. In other words, the capacity of a floppy disk is 720 KByte. There were Radio Shack and other computers (NCR, etc.) that used this format (DSQD). This corresponds to the capacity of the standard 3.5-inch double-density (DD) drive. The 3.5-inch floppy disk format was supported since DOS version 3.2. Introduction of 3.5” drives and disks by IBM (mid-1980s) was one reason why the 5.25 inch drives with 720 KByte storage did not find their way into the IBM world. == Further in the above web link: Changing a Teac FD-55GFR drive to a FD-55F drive ... or, How do I get my drive to spin at 300 RPM instead of 360 RPM ? gb

1 year, 2 months

3
2
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Re: FD-55B head loose

by Gregory Beat

Vogons Wiki has summary from Teac Manuals. TEAC FD-55 Series Floppy Drives http://www.vogonswiki.com/index.php/Teac_FD-55_series TEAC FD-55 Product Brochure (PDF, 6 pages), 1985 printing https://minuszerodegrees.net/manuals/TEAC/TEAC%20FD-55%20Series.pdf greg, w9gb

1 year, 2 months

1
0
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Westhead acosiates

by Adrian Stoness

Curious if there's anything in the community on them They made a cpm based system that was used in HMI control room settings in the 80's I've got the manuals for their pdm 800 series along with backup of the software on 8in floppy from the mclelan mine in Lynn lake mb. Love to find a system the one that went with my stuff got bulldozed into the ground in 2009

1 year, 2 months

2
3
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FD-55B head loose

by Jim Brain

I was wondering if anyone here has experience with the FD55-B with head load solenoid. I have a few working ones, but this one is not, and when I look at it, it differs from the others in that the head "wiggles" up and done on the side nearest the solenoid. I can see it is tight on the rail oppose the solenoid, but on the side nearest, the back of the head does not connect with the rail on the back (which seems correct, as there is a piece of that extends out and looks to slot into a sensor. But, I'd assume the front mount would hug the rail, but it only does on the top. By pushing the head close to the disk in use, I can get it to work, so I think this loose head issue is the only one. I guess: * Anyone seen something like this? * Is this a broken rail mount on the head, or something else? * If its broken and probably can't be fixed, anyone have a parts FD55-B? * Can one replace the head on these (it looks like you can, but I admit I have never changed parts in a drive mech. Jim -- Jim Brain brain(a)jbrain.com www.jbrain.com

1 year, 2 months

5
12
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Food Truck at VCF East 2025

by Jeffrey Brace

VCF East has a food truck this year! Boardwalk Bites agreed to have a truck there. Besides the long lines at Consignment, on-campus food had the biggest complaints from last year's survey. We hope that this solves this problem. MENU: BREAKFAST (Served from 7:30 am) Pork, Egg and Cheese Roll Egg, Bacon and Cheese Burrito Bagels and Pastries Coffee & Tea LUNCH (Served from 11:30 am – 2:00 pm) Cheeseburger Sausage & Peppers Sandwich Vegetarian Sandwich Cheesesteak Seasoned Fries Fresh Fruit BEVERAGES Water, Soda Show info: https://vcfed.org/events/vintage-computer-festival-east/ Tickets: https://vcfed.org/vcf-east-tickets/

1 year, 2 months

1
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Brian Kernighan @ VCF East April 5 at 5PM

by Jeffrey Brace

Brian Kernighan will be interviewed by Stephen Edwards about his 2019 book: UNIX: A History and a Memoir. He will be there Saturday, April 5 at 5PM. Brian Kernighan worked at Bell Labs and co-wrote the first book on C Programming (in 1978) with Dennis Ritchie: "The C Programming Language" VCF East 2025 will be in Wall, NJ from April 4-6. More information: https://vcfed.org/events/vintage-computer-festival-east/ Tickets: https://vcfed.org/vcf-east-tickets/ Take care! Jeff Brace VCF East Showrunner

1 year, 2 months

1
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Need PATA drives?

by Van Snyder

I have some 3.5" PATA drives. One WD2500 250 GB drive and two Maxtor Max Line II 320 GB drives. All three passed SMART long tests. If you need any, they're yours for the price of a PDF shipping label.

1 year, 2 months

2
2
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Selling Off My Q-Bus Collection (revision based on suggestions)

by Joe

Hi, located in Eastern MA, I already have a couple of interests, but I'll see what comes in. Multiple q-bus boards that can easily ship, a VT103, a BA chassis 9x4 I think and two RX02 units.

1 year, 2 months

3
2
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Selling Off My Q-Bus Collection

by Joe

Hi Everyone, I'm new to this list so please let me know if I am doing something incorrect. Anyway, I have a bunch of Qbus stuff (RXV21s, RX02s, memory boards, 11/23s, etc) and I am getting to the point in my life that it all needs to go to a new home. I would like to know if anybody has thoughts on where I should post the list or sell it. I could always do Epay, but I'm not sure that is the best place. I thought here or Vintage would be better but I'd like to hear thoughts from somebody that has already been there. thanks in advance Joe Heck

1 year, 2 months

2
1
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VCF West 2025 Survey - Final Days - Mountain View, California

by Jeffrey Brace

There are only 5 days left to fill out this survey! Help us make a great show for VCF West 2025, please fill out this survey: https://forms.gle/R1kSCsVqEyZfgQ4Q8

1 year, 2 months

1
0
0 0

VCF EAST CONSIGNMENT HAS A BIGGER SPACE! - April 4-6, 2025 - Wall, NJ

by Jeffrey Brace

VCF EAST 2025 CONSIGNMENT HAS A BIGGER SPACE! VCF now has a 7000 square foot space for consignment! Plenty of space for everyone's items and less waiting time to get in! Information about consignment is here: https://vcfed.org/events/vintage-computer-festival-east/vcf-east-consignmen… Register and enter your new items into consignment here: https://nexopos.vcfed.org/ The show is April 4-6 in Wall, NJ. More info here: https://vcfed.org/events/vintage-computer-festival-east/ Tickets here: https://vcfed.org/vcf-east-tickets/ Jeff Brace VCF East Showrunner

1 year, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Indius Java components

by silcreval

A very left field question, but many moons ago I wrote some software using Nescape IFC. For those with long memories that was an early GUI library for Java that predates Swing. For no reason at all I'd like to get this software running again, but noticed that I probably need a 3rd party library that was produced by Indius. These IFC add ons provided a fantastic grid and tree component. The software was I believe finally released with a GNU license in the 00s but despite searching on archive etc I've not been able to find it. Does anyone by any chance have an archived copy ? Netscape IFC was quite a big thing when it was released by the way, and many books were written about it. It was also bundled with Netscapes browsers in the day, so available wherever they were installed. I believe the team that created IFC went on to make Swing, which is in many ways similar, but added a lot of bulk which at least in the early 00s made things slow. Thanks Ian

1 year, 2 months

2
1
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IDT 49C402BG84 Pinout?

by Holm Tiffe

Hi all, I'm dreaming to build sometimes my own Bit Slice CPU (when I have spare time) and I have collected several IC's in the last years for this purpose. Today a small antistatic bag with 4x IDT49C402BG84 and two IDT 49C410J fell in my hands while I was sorting some stuff. I know what they are and what they could do, they are able to help me to build a Bit Slice CPU w/o very large PCB's connecting hordes of 2901 etc. Besides of that they are CMOS and should draw much less power. But I have a problem with the 49C402: All datasheets that I could find until now, don't have the pinput auf that nice PGA84 package, there are DIP68, LCC/PLCC68 G68 or PG68 and QE68 "Cerquad" pinouts listet in every datasheet, but I have 4 chips in a PGA84 housing... This ebay page has pictures: https://www.ebay.com/p/10020043211 I don't have anything todo with the seller. Can anyone help finding the pinout? The chips itself don't seem to that seldom... Kind Regards, Holm -- Technik Service u. Handel Tiffe, www.tsht.de, Holm Tiffe, Goethestrasse 15, 09569 Oederan, USt-Id: DE253710583 info(a)tsht.de Tel +49 37292 709778 Mobil: 0172 8790 741

1 year, 2 months

15
50
0 0

DEC CP11-U (M7824) Documentation?

by Christian Gauger-Cosgrove

Hello all, I'm curious, does anyone have any documentation on the CP11 card punch option? From the '91 Edited Option Module List and various iterations of the "Field Guide to QBUS and UNIBUS Modules" that it's: 1. A card punch, 2. A UNIBUS device, and; 3. It uses the M7824 board. I'm most particularly interested in if anyone has any programming information on it. Best regards, Christian -- Christian M. Gauger-Cosgrove STCKON08DS0 Contact information available upon request.

1 year, 3 months

2
2
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VCF West 2025 Survey - Mountain View, California

by Jeffrey Brace

SAVE THE DATE! VCF West is back on August 1 & 2, 2025 at the Computer History Museum in Mountain View, California. Please fill out this survey to help us with planning: https://forms.gle/R1kSCsVqEyZfgQ4Q8 This survey is for everyone! We have started plans to make VCF West a bigger, better, and more unique show than we ever have before! We're partnering with the Sacramento Amiga Computer Club and AmiWest to celebrate the 40th anniversary of the Amiga and other special guests. We will have quality speakers, a large consignment area, exhibits galore and our Friday Night Social. Exhibit space will, however, be limited so we are going to be selective in the process. There is still room for talks so if you're interested or know someone who is, please let us know at vcfwest(a)vcfed.org We're looking forward to seeing you there! Take care! Jeff Brace VCF National Board Member Chairman & Vice President VCF East Showrunner MARCH Fundraising Manager Vintage Computer Federation is a 501c3 charity https://vcfed.org/ <http://www.vcfed.org/>

1 year, 3 months

1
0
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Re: ROM to Flash Adapter for HP Portable PC ROM Drawer help

by Martin.Hepperle＠dlr.de

Mike, you might also want to have a look at https://www.hpmuseum.org/forum/thread-15356.html For testing , I have used a regular EPROM mounted on an external PCB and connected it with a ribbon cable to the ROM drawer. There are ribbon cable - DIP connectors with thin pins, which can be used without destroying the sockets inside the ROM drawer. You should not use normal pin headers as these pins are too thick and will damage the sockets. Unfortunately, many replacement solutions use such headers. You can buy individual, thin pins, but these are relatively expensive (e.g. at Mouser). The height of a replacement should be similar to a normal EPROM, so a thin PCB with a flat SMC Flash RAM might be a viable solution. This will also require a programming adapter. On the other hand, 128 KB capacity is still rather limited - e.g. Turbo-C header files are too large to fit into one EPROM, even if compressed by removing comments and whitespace. However, it should be possible to link software over two 128K modules, as was obviously done with Word Perfect in the days (see the Portable Paper). This linking requires some modification of the FAT entries in the image files, which I have not yet tried. Martin

1 year, 3 months

1
0
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Need a dot-matrix impact printer?

by Van Snyder

Do you need to print on multi-part carbon or NCR forms? Do you need a dot-matrix impact printer? I have a Star Micronics SB-10 dot-matrix impact printer. It has a parallel interface. My late brother was using it so I assume it still works. None of my computers have a parallel port so I can't test it. Printer, cable, manual, spare ribbon, original shipping packaging. If you want it, it's yours for the price of a PDF shipping label, 20" x 20" x 10" 30 pounds.

1 year, 3 months

1
0
0 0

Vendor for data recovery from TK50 and TK25 tapes?

by dbrock＠computerhistory.org

Hello everyone! I'm new to the list, but am posting here on the suggestion of Chuck Guzis. I'm a curator at the Computer History Museum, and am trying to identify a vendor who could potentially work with us to recover data from a set of TK50 and TK25 tapes that came to us in an archival collection. Any pointers would be much appreciated. I can be reached directly at dbrock(a)computerhistory.org Thanks in advance for your time, David

1 year, 3 months

3
2
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networking on CTOS

by r.stricklin

Trying to experiment with TCP/IP (and, to a lesser extent, OSI and BNet cluster) networking on a Convergent/Unisys CTOS system (SuperGen SG3600). Am experiencing several anomalous results and would love to have a chat with someone who has real experience with this… if some such person is on the list. Thanks! ok bear.

1 year, 3 months

2
1
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VCF East 2025 tickets now on sale!

by Jeffrey Brace

https://events.humanitix.com/vintage-computer-festival-east-2025 Jeff Brace VCF East Showrunner Vintage Computer Federation is a 501c3 charity

1 year, 3 months

1
0
0 0

NeXT computer system...

by John Robertson

I'm just starting to clean up a NeXT system that a friend has had in storage for decades... I assume the thing has a battery somewhere - I just hope it isn't Ni-Cad! This is the original cube, monitor, keyboard (& mouse?), printer, assorted cables, and a SCSI secondary hard drive box. So far the manuals haven't shown up, but that is all online AFAICT. My plan is to give them all a good cleaning, then open up and inspect capacitors, look for batteries and any other perishable items, and then do diode checks prior to considering powering up. The remembered background story was a nearby lightning strike may have taken out the (1200 baud?) external modem, so will be paying extra attention to the serial ports! Sniff test may still be useful even after 20ish years. Any suggestions on what else to watch for on this setup prior to first power? I also will be using the Dim-Bulb setup once it seems safe to turn on. Anyone seen a common problem in power supplies for these components for example? Planned destination is auction... Thanks! John :-#)#

1 year, 3 months

11
14
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VCF Montréal Survey

by Jeffrey Brace

This survey is in its final days. You are invited to add your anonymous input by clicking here https://bit.ly/vcfm2026pre-en Ce sondage entre dans ses derniers jours. Vous êtes invité à ajouter vos commentaires anonymes en cliquant ici https://bit.ly/vcfm2026pre-fr DATE: January 25 & 26, 2026. LOCATION: Montréal, QC, Canada Jeff Brace VCF National Board Member Chairman & Vice President

1 year, 3 months

2
2
0 0

FYI: The ongoing, 40 years long search for Aleph Null

by Tomasz Rola

Howdy, The subject of Aleph Null's real identity appeared on HN... :: Who was Aleph Null? Posted on 2 September 2013 by Brian Hayes http://bit-player.org/2013/who-was-aleph-null :: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43195308 Intriguing. He must have been known by somebody, back in the day. -- Regards, Tomasz Rola -- ** A C programmer asked whether computer had Buddha's nature. ** ** As the answer, master did "rm -rif" on the programmer's home ** ** directory. And then the C programmer became enlightened... ** ** ** ** Tomasz Rola mailto:tomasz_rola@bigfoot.com **

1 year, 3 months

2
1
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Anybody need a dot matrix impact printer?

by Van Snyder

Anybody need a dot matrix impact printer? Do you need to print multi- part forms with carbon paper or NCR paper? I have a Star Micronics SB-10 dot matrix impact printer. It has a parallel port interface. I have the cable, manual, and a spare ribbon. None of my computers have a parallel port so I haven't tried to use it. I put it on EBay, but mostly I don't want to throw it in the E-waste bin. It's yours for pickup or shipping, but I won't complain if you offer me something for it. 30lb. 20x20x10 inch box.

1 year, 3 months

2
1
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Thousands of new Data General documents added to the on-line archives...

by Bruce Ray

Thousands of new documents have been added to the DG legacy preservation web site [www.NovasAreForever.org], including new sections for the Nova, SuperNova, Nova 2, Nova 3, microNova, MPT, Eclipse S/130, Eclipse S/140, Eclipse S/230, Eclipse C/330, Eclipse S/280, and Desktop Generation computers.(!) Separate areas also now exist for DG disks, tapes and other peripherals. New archives for 3rd-party, DG-compatible hardware vendors have been started with this release, including those for Keronix, DCC, Bytronix and ROLM. This update reflects Wild Hare's continuing dedication [obsession?] to preserve Data General's significant part of computer history, and to help museums, universities and "restorationists" preserve DG systems worldwide. Bruce Ray www.NovasAreForever.org -- Bruce Ray, President Wild Hare Computer Systems, Inc. Denver, Colorado USA bkr(a)WildHareComputers.com ...preserving the Data General legacy: www.NovasAreForever.org

1 year, 3 months

2
1
0 0

Might be antique computer parts

by Van Snyder

I have two SPST time delay 12-volt relays packaged like vacuum tubes with octal bases, Amperite models 12N010 (ten seconds) and 12C5 (five seconds). They're in their original boxes. I have no idea what devices used them. It seems a shame to throw them in a recycle bin. Does anybody want them? Van Snyder

1 year, 3 months

2
2
0 0

Rainbow 100A Video Fault (also posted on VCF)

by Rob Jarratt

I have been trying to diagnose a video fault on my Rainbow 100A for some time now. The monitor shows an error message and some of the attributes displayed are wrong and displayed incorrectly on every line down the screen. However, the attributes being presented to the DC012 appear to be correct and the DC012 is good (I have replaced it with a spare and with a known good one, all have the same behaviour), and yet the display is wrong. I have posted this on VCF, but would like to reach a wider audience as I am really at a loss now as to what the problem could be. Picture of the problem here: https://forum.vcfed.org/index.php?threads/video-ram-fault-on-a-rainbow-100a. 1250713/post-1418966 Description of what I have found here: https://forum.vcfed.org/index.php?threads/video-ram-fault-on-a-rainbow-100a. 1250713/post-1433618 Thanks Rob

1 year, 3 months

1
0
0 0

Elliott Algol

by Frank Leonhardt

As those of us with a few years will know, Tony Hoare (and Jill's) implementation of Algol 60 on the Elliott 803 was a highly significant event in the history of computer languages. It was the first practical commercial Algol compiler, launched block structures languages, and played a part in Elliott selling nearly 300 803B computers at a time when 300 computers was a big number. Obviously the US preferred Fortran and COBOL for commercial use, and there were other Algol compilers in some shape or other knocking about in universities. But I'd say this implementation put block structured programming into the mainstream. (And it was the first high level language I used, but that's beside the point). Now some kid on Wikipedia thinks it's not notable and is trying to delete it because he can't find much on it doing a Google search. Wikipedia may be sinking under activists and egos, but I think we need to put this misapprehension straight. Unfortunately we may be arguing with an idiot. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elliott_ALGOL If course, if anyone thinks it wasn't significant, that's an opinion too, but I'd like to hear why. Thanks, Frank.

1 year, 3 months

32
130
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Re: Classic computers with more than one stack pointer, but not FORTH machines.

by John

On Fri, 21 Feb 2025 12:00:07 -0600 Paul Koning <paulkoning(a)comcast.net> wrote: > > What is the problem with ISRs running in a user stack? The ISR > > runs, exits, the stack is cut back, and net effect on the user's > > stack is zero. > > A stack access fault in user mode kills the process, in kernel mode > (certainly in an ISR) it kills the whole system. You can't leave the > integrity of the OS at the mercy of the application having a valid > stack. Additionally, the ISR could leave potentially sensitive information in user memory, depending on exactly how the stack and memory protection are implemented. Consider an architecture where the stack pointer is a normal address register (as on the -11, the 68k, etc.) and protection is on a per-page basis with no bounds checking (i.e. there's no special address space for the stack, just a particular chunk mapped into normal user memory.) It'd be trivial for a user program to sit and "scrape" the stack for stray bits left by passing ISRs - say, waiting to see if the UART service routine happens to jot down something that looks like an admin password coming off one of the terminals.

1 year, 3 months

4
5
0 0

Re: Elliott Algol

by Paul McJones

> On19 Feb 2025 18:39:08 -0500, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: > >>> >>>> One of most ingenious coding tricks to me was the problem of saving and >>>> restoring all registers without resorting to an exchange jump. We used >>>> that one as a test for applicants. >>> >>> Argh... I know I've seen this trick, but it's been too many years. How >>> about a hint? >> >> It uses the RJ instruction to record register content, bit-by-bit. >> Think about it--RJ is about the only instruction that can modify memory >> without fiddling with the A6 and A7 registers. >> > > Of course... I vaguely recalled there was a bit-by-bit save, but didn't > think of the RJ. Thanks. A full example of this code is in the DEBUG package of CAL SNOBOL <https://mcjones.org/CAL_SNOBOL/>, starting at label SAVEREG: Original version: https://mcjones.org/CAL_SNOBOL/UArizona/SNOBOL.MAC.html Revised version: https://mcjones.org/CAL_SNOBOL/UTexas/DEBUG.html

1 year, 3 months

1
0
0 0

IBM 4506 (old message)

by Tommy Chang

I saw an email posted to the predecessor mail list asking if anyone had a picture of an IBM 4506 terminal. I was looking through the September 1973 issue Modern Data and saw an article on page 70 about the New York Times’s indexing efforts. It said that they were using IBM 4506 terminals and it has a picture of a large workroom (identified as “The Times index room”) with a bunch of terminals which I assume must be 4506’s (although the caption does not explicitly state that). The magazine is available on BitSavers. Look for the issue with file name Modern_Data_1973_07.pdf. Tommy Chang

1 year, 3 months

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Classic computers with more than one stack pointer, but not FORTH machines.

by ben

Did any classic computers have a subroutine call as (S++)=PC, PC=(EFA) as well as the standard call (--S)=PC,PC=(EFA) ? One could have a virtual stack machine, using helper functions without having to deal with return addresses on the stack. Ben.

1 year, 3 months

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Re: Classic computers with more than one stack pointer, but not FORTH machines.

by John

On Tue, 18 Feb 2025 12:00:10 -0600 cctalk-request(a)classiccmp.org wrote: > On the more than "one stack pointer" in the subject, it was a bit > arbitrary on the PDP-11 (or VAX) as the pre/post indexed indirect > addressing made every register a stack pointer. But this is where I > get hazy between DEC and 68K, and I did a lot more 68K. I'm pretty > sure you could do a move.l PC, An and you could certainly do an > indirect jmp (An), so effectively you could have multiple call stacks > if you wanted. Almost, kinda-sorta. The JSR and RTS instructions are hard-wired to use R6/SP, and there's nothing you can do about that. You *can* implement a return off another "stack" by doing e.g. MOV @(Rn)+, PC as long as you save the return address by hand, first - but this affects the flags, unlike JSR/RTS.

1 year, 3 months

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HAWLEY X063X Mark II and XEROX Star mice

by hupfadekroua

Hi all, I‘m offering HAWLEY X063X, XEROX Star rollerball and optical mice. If interested contact me offlist please. Best Andreas

1 year, 3 months

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VCF SoCal 2025 recap

by Steve Lewis

Happened to be in the area, so I checked out VCF SoCal last weekend. Glad I did, wow Lee Felsenstein was able to present ! What a treat. VCF SoCal 2025 — voidstar <https://voidstar.blog/vcf-socal-2025/> https://voidstar.blog/vcf-socal-2025/

1 year, 3 months

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Re: Elliott Algol

by Paul McJones

> On 15 Feb 2025 18:41:21 -0800,Van Snyder <van.snyder(a)sbcglobal.net <mailto:van.snyder@sbcglobal.net>> wrote: > > Harry Husky, the G15 designer, was one of the computer design pioneers. > He became a professor (maybe adjunct) at UC Berkeley. As far as I know, Huskey was a regular professor. Two of his Ph.D. students went on to win the ACM Turing Award: Niklaus Wirth and Butler Lampson: https://mathgenealogy.org/id.php?id=10185 Huskey went on to found the Computer Science department at U.C. Santa Cruz.

1 year, 3 months

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Re: Elliott Algol

by Paul McJones

> On 16 Feb 2025 18:00:35 -0700,ben <bfranchuk(a)jetnet.ab.ca <mailto:bfranchuk@jetnet.ab.ca>> wrote: > > I have trouble understanding the fine points of accessing a local > variable in Algol with a display. Books tend to spend more time > on the evils of a dangling else, and gloss over the run time action of > a display. > Have a good example or reference book I can find free on line. The original book on that subject is ALGOL 60 Implementation by B. Randell and L. J. Russell. It’s available here with permission from the copyright holder: https://www.softwarepreservation.org/projects/ALGOL/algol60impl/#ALGOL_60_I…

1 year, 3 months

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Open source a panacea?

by Donald Whittemore

I am an old mainframe guy. I could give you my COBOL deck of cards or the compile listing. You could pour through the code looking for nefarious/malicious code. I then hand you the object deck. You have no idea if it matches the code you looked at. The only way you could be sure is to compile the code I gave you and use your own object deck. So why is open source these days such a beneficial thing? DeepSeek may be open source but I have no way to create my own executable. Besides, I don’t know what language it is written in but I bet I have no expertise in it. No way to for me to identify nasty code. Yes, many people may have reviewed the code but that does not mean what I am running is the result of that code.

1 year, 3 months

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Re: Elliott Algol

by Dr. Erik Baigar

Hi Van, just wanted to point out, that there is a 803 emulator out there: https://www.peteronion.org.uk/Elliott/ I have got a real 900 series machine running, which is from the very early 1970ies and also runs a form of Elliott Algol: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-gF5g0nnoE Best wishes, Erik. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ''~`` ( o o ) +--------------------------.oooO--(_)--Oooo.-------------------------+ | Dr. Erik Baigar Inertial Navigation & | | Salzstrasse 1 .oooO Vintage Computer | | D87616 Marktoberdorf ( ) Oooo. Hobbyist / Physicist | | erik(a)baigar.de +------\ (----( )---------------------------+ | www.baigar.de | \_) ) / +----------------------+ (_/

1 year, 3 months

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Re: RS232 then and now

by Robert Feldman

>Message: 31 >Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2025 07:29:15 +0000 >From: Tony Duell <ard.p850ug1(a)gmail.com> >Subject: [cctalk] Re: RS232 then and now > >On Sat, Feb 1, 2025 at 10:54 PM Fred Cisin via cctalk ><cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > > >> >> IBM used a DB25 socket for their printer port at the computer end, >> (male on the card for serial, female on the card for parallel "Centronics") >> THAT, of course caused some idiots to attempt to use the parallel port for >> serial and vice versa. "I just need a 'gender changer'!" :-) > >The worst screw-up there (IMHO) came from HP in the HP150 series. This >machine had 2 RS232 serial ports as standard on DB25 sockets, wired >for some inexplicable reason as DTEs. There was an add-on board that >included a parallel printer port. To avoid confusion, this was a DB25 >plug. But the board had been laid out for a DB25 socket using the IBM >PC pinout. The result was that stb/ ended up on pin 13, D0 on pin 12, >and so on. > >-tony > My vote for the worst connector screw-up is the AT&T (Olivetti) 6300. Its monochrome monitor used a DB25 to supply both the signals and 12 volts to power the monitor. Bob

1 year, 3 months

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RS232 - parallel modems!?

by Steve Lewis

I was about to ask if anyone ever built a "Parallel Modem" - but I searched around first, and lo and behold, Microcom did ! (v.fast / v.34 era, c. 1996) The drivers refer to Win3.1/Win95 era (I'm not seeing where they had DOS support). But I'm still not sure if I'm understanding the product (which I found described here Microcom Parallel Port Modem <https://strom.com/pubwork/cw294.html> From a programming perspective, you just set your parallel bits and mash the STROBE pin, right? Then figure some reasonable delay between iterations of doing that. You don't need starts/stop or parity bits. So I get how that is more efficient (but question is, why wasn't it built sooner? I think it's a long answer when you look at the historical build up of modems, and that serial-port based modems were "fast enough" at the time) So.. If you had a slow system that couldn't really take advantage of a ~7MHz 16550 serial card (or I guess like a laptop that was stuck with an older UART) That might be the use-case where this parallel v.fast might help (by being able to "feed the modem" fast enough to actually take advantage of the faster modem speed?) Or is there some other scenario NOTE, in the articled linked above, it does mention that it is only "value added" if you have this parallel-modem on both sides of the connection. (this is because you'll be flow controlled to whatever is the slower device in the connection?) Related but different question: Is there any "natural rate" (Hz) of a modem? Meaning is 1200/2400 baud-equivalent modem an accelerated-by-enhanced-encoding version of 300 bps? and 9600 likewise an accelerated-by-encoding version of 2400? is 300bps itself some kind of special accelerated-by-encoding? I see 1200 baud was also still sub 3KHz (did any modem protocol go above 3KHz?). Or maybe I need to ask it this way: did 300 baud modems use a more 1:1 translation of the data-word bits into Hz signal over the modem (giving a more "natural" translation rate?) But then beyond that speed, does a modem need to "cache" a few bytes and determine some encoding scheme to then give modems an apparent speed boost? (is that "kind-of" like USB's 8B/10B? (not in implementation, but in the general concept that a different encoding can result in improved data throughput, without actual faster movement of that data?) I guess it gets into the "secret sauce" approaches of how vendors figured out these encoding approaches (v.32bis, etc), and give their product competitive advantages (but only if you could convince enough ISPs to adopt your protocol, by buying your modem device). My daughter made me finally watch Blackberry recently, it's an interesting telling of that story (of a small business selling their tech to USR, and also that they tackled a version of encryption) -Steve

1 year, 3 months

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"Re: Re: Elliott Algol"

by Paul Pierce

Al has a reader at CHM. They can read tapes too, my 7-track setup is now at System Source. Paul > On Sat, 2025-02-15 at 14:52 +0000, Sid Jones via cctalk wrote: > > IIRC, I have a copy of the Elliot 803 A-103 Algol compiler on a five- > > hole > > tape in a drawer somewhere in my untidy office... > > > > As used in UCNW Bangor, 1971-1974. > > There might be a reader somewhere. If anybody has (or developes) an > 803B emulator, it would be nice to have the compiler. > > Paul Pierce read several IBM 1401 tapes. The Computer History Museum in > Mountain View, CA has two operating 1401s, and the SimH project has an > emulator. It's nice to have the Autocoder assembler, FORTRAN II and > FORTRAN IV compilers, COBOL compiler, â¦ to use. There are students at > San Jose State University who go to classes in 1401 programming at CHM. > > Maybe Paul has a paper tape reader too. > > > >

1 year, 3 months

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Dan Sokol (and bits about the Apple I and the 6502 procurement)

by Jim Brain

https://thisistrue.com/sokol-behind-scenes/ It's probably not overly important how the 6502s got sourced for the Apple I, but here's a different take. Debate as you see fit, I'm just the messenger. Jim -- Jim Brain brain(a)jbrain.com www.jbrain.com

1 year, 3 months

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RS232 then and now

by Steve Lewis

Hey all! So, I've found myself studying up on RS-232 this year for a few reasons. I'm mulling over doing an RS232 themed talk at June VCF. Not a super exciting topic, but I do think that RS232 has an interesting history: In the SAGE relationship, and as a follow up to (essentially) prior telegraph communication. From what I've read, "50 baud" was a kind of an initial goal to beat, since that's what the top telegraph operators could achieve (in small burst, probably not all day). And those operators did have to also deal with things like start/stop "bits". Maybe it wasn't an intentional goal, but just that it establishes why "50 baud" is generally the lowest we ever see mentioned (or, if you go slower than that, might as well use the older tech). Then 75/110/130 baud to have digital-systems interoperate with classic mechanical teletypes. Going any faster and those systems jam up or overheat? These weren't yet called "serial ports", so I'm not sure what a late 50s system would even call their equipment that facilitate this data exchange (since I'm not sure what kind of crystal-clock they even had yet). Then, was it the SAGE program that demonstrated the idea of doing this kind of data exchange across copper phone lines? That is, the idea of computers collaborating not just in a room, but across long distances (miles)? And doing so by using an audio tone presentation? (they settled on around 3100MHz, which ended up translating to 300 baud? hence, that's basically why the first digital to digital system data exchange settled on that baud rate, which was reliable on both 50 and 60Hz power systems, and meaningfully faster than prior 110 baud - so a good milestone to turn it into a product, which was the Bell Model 103?). I couldn't find much details (like a manual) on the Bell 101 equipment (anyone seen one or have a manual?). But I did find the Bell 103 manual - the photo of its innards is grainy, so I don't understand how the Bell 103 did 300 baud without a UART (and one of the pinout lines I see did run power, so not sure if that's-yet RS232 or not; I know RS232 was evolving right at that same time circa 1962). I've about the 1970ish TR1402 initial DIP UART, with anything prior being an experiment (like a full board concept by DEC). I know from 1962, both RS232 and ASCII standards still took maybe another decade to really gain traction as standards (at least, from what I've read). Getting the world to comply with any standard always takes a lot of effort (for a practical reason of everyone still having invested in the older tooling that was still functional). But it's interesting how those two standards are still in use (not in their original form, but least the 1967 revisions) - extending from Baudot.and late 1800s-tech on telegraphs. Does anyone know of any grocery stories using RS232 in the 1960s? I think barcode scanning was just introduced in that era. I can just imagine a smart grocery store owner, in the backroom programming their minicomputer for payroll and inventory management. In FORTRAN and without a CRT? Actually, in the 60s, I think included software would be negotiated with the provider of the computer (well, I'm not sure how that differed between minis and mainframes). I know early microcomputers used RS232 for keyboards (1974-1976 era). The IBM PC keyboard is essentially another form of serial. Well, sorry for the rambling - have other RS232 related questions, but first wanted to focus on the historical aspects (and see if I'm somewhat on the right track at least). -Steve

1 year, 3 months

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Ad-blocking (was Re: Open source a panacea?)

by John

On Fri, 14 Feb 2025 12:00:07 -0600 cctalk-request(a)classiccmp.org wrote: > I can't believe people do use it any more without filtering. I've > used an ad-blocking web browser for some years but I occasionally see > the real thing when setting up a new machine. Absurd. It really is astonishing how bad it's gotten - fully the equal of the early '00s when sites might just spawn a dozen pop-ups and only one of the major browsers let you block them, only now there's a pile of JS mining crypto in the background, to boot :/ Been running with NoScript and an ad-blocker as my standard configuration for many, many years now, but it's always sobering to get a look at what other people see...

1 year, 4 months

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NCR EM-D2 Card reader manual

by Mattis Lind

I am about to get a NCR EM-D2 card reader, but I can not find much documentation on it. Is there anyone here that has documentation on it? Preferably a maintenance manual. A couple of years ago (perhaps in February 2021 if one studies how they indexed the file in their storage) there was a sale of a maintenance manual on Ebay according to the below Worthpoint link. https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/1965-ncr-em-d2-punched-card-reader-3… Did anyone here buy this manual? I am very interested in a scan of this manual or possibly to purchase the manual. /Mattis

1 year, 4 months

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Mid-Atlantic Retro Computing Hobbyists Hack-a-Thon

by Jeffrey Brace

DATE: March 8 & 9, 2025 LOCATION: InfoAge Science and History Museums, Wall, NJ Fee: None *More info here*: https://vcfed.org/2025/02/13/march-hack-a-thon/

1 year, 4 months

2
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Looking for information on Megan Gentry, former RT-11 developer

by Hans-Ulrich Hölscher

Does anyone know anything about the whereabouts of Megan Gentry, former RT-11 developer? She left her last trace in 2020, when she ported ZEMU to RT-11.

1 year, 4 months

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Vintage Computer Festival Montreal Survey

by Jeffrey Brace

We invite you to take part in a brief, anonymous survey about VCF Montreal. Click here https://bit.ly/vcfm2026pre-en Nous vous invitons à participer à un bref sondage anonyme sur VCF Montréal. Cliquez ici https://bit.ly/vcfm2026pre-fr Jeff Brace Vintage Computer Federation Vice President

1 year, 4 months

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Use (abuse?) of a 7924 in a +24 PS...

by William Sudbrink

I'm repairing/restoring a later model MITS 8 inch floppy drive. I can not seem to find schematics for it. It is the same as Bill Degnan has here: https://vintagecomputer.net/MITS/88-DCDD/ You can see in his photos (and mine match) that the _plus_ 24 volt DC supply on the board uses a 7924 (note the 9. negative) voltage regulator, with a small heat sink, directly on the circuit board. Along with a couple of 7805s, there is a .Motorola 2n6045 screwed to the large black heat sink. All three of the devices drop into sockets on the circuit board to allow the heat sink to be easily installed/removed. On my unit, the socket for the 2n6045 was burnt to a crisp. I have replace the socket, the 2n6045, the 7924 and the electrolytic caps. When I test the +24 volt rail with a dummy load, it measures +41 volts. I don't understand this circuit. I know MITS was notorious for its power supplies. Does anyone have the schematics for this version of the 8 inch floppy? Any suggestions? Thanks, Bill S. -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com

1 year, 4 months

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Re: Looking for IBM 2723

by Tony White

A 2838 card can be used instead of a 2723. keith

1 year, 4 months

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Re: Looking for IBM 2723

by Tony White

You can use a 2838 card instead of the 2723.

1 year, 4 months

1
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Microsoft 50 years

by Christian Liendo

I was debating sending this, but Microsoft is part of computing history and fifty years is a milestone. https://news.microsoft.com/microsoft-50/

1 year, 4 months

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Re: RS232 then and now

by Robert Feldman

>Message: 26 >Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2025 18:13:17 -0500 >From: Nigel Johnson Ham <g4ajq1(a)gmail.com> >Subject: [cctalk] Re: RS232 then and now > >On 2025-02-01 18:11, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: >> One mystery to me was why did the industry stick with the EIA-232 levels >> for terminals and whatnot long after differential EIA-422 was >> introduced. Higher-speed, better noise immunity, single-ended power >> supply... Seems that the popular places were Appletalk and ST506 data >> lines. But not on DTE/DCE. If you were using full-voltage (±15-±25) >> at high speeds (>500Kbps), the slew rates were ridiculous. >> >> Inertia? My old 80286 motherboard had junper-selectable 232 or 422. >> >> Still have a couple of tubes of 422 drivers/receivers. >> >> --Chuck >> >DEC had RS422 available on their DLJ11J four-port interface, but I never >saw it used in the field. > The Otrona Attache has two serial ports, DA-15 female, that are jumper selectable between RS-232C, RS-422 or RS-423. Bob

1 year, 4 months

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A baudy tale

by Donald Whittemore

In the early 70s my employer used stand alone data entry tape units in our remote locations. We started with NCR units but then switched to Tally. In the late afternoon the data would be transmitted to the home office in Chicago for processing. Also using NCR/Tally units. We used Racal-Milgo modems. These things were about the size of a large home stereo receiver. We started at 2400 baud. The units could do 3600 or 4800 (I don’t remember which) if a circuit board strap was moved. We had locations in many cities/towns all the way out to Montana. It was decided that we needed to have the ability to switch between 2400 and the faster speed when possible. We did not want to have the locals power off the modem, open it up, remove a card and move the strap. So I got volunteered to come up with a plan. I found a place in the modem where I could mount a switch. Luckily the modem had a sliding panel on the front so the locals would not have to open the box top. Went to our fleet garage where they had the tools I needed. I made a bunch of aluminum brackets for a tiny toggle switch. Added wires to the switch. It was also decided that we could not trust the locals to do the switch install. So part of the plan included me going to all the locations and doing the install. I did not have a car at the time so I got a fleet car. Headed south to Kentucky then turned west. Don’t remember all the states I hit but I believe the last place I hit on the way home was Rockford. I remember being on a back road in Montana and I took a picture of my speedometer. I was doing 65. This was when there was a countrywide speed limit of 55. I can’t be limited by the Man. :) Back at the home office we had 6 NCR/Tally machines and only 4 modems. I built a plug panel box that had everything wired to it and used telephone jack plugs to connect the Tally’s to an available modem. The box also had switches for the modem speed. I now forget how long the whole process took. Put my DeVry AAS degree to good use. :)

1 year, 4 months

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Re: Microsoft history

by Murray McCullough

Microsoft, or is it Micro-Soft or MICROSOFT, is a 50 yr. old trans-national corporation. Whether it has been good or not-so-good for society is debatable but on the financial-side its been very kind to investors(the earliest ones anyways). Capitalism certainly owes Microsoft a good nod! Happy computing. Murray 🙂

1 year, 4 months

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Re: Seeking a MC75325L Dual Memory Driver

by pbirkel＠gmail.com

Follow-up: Vendor now on eBay for Fairchild 75325DC in lots-of-five; they accepted my Best Offer. https://www.ebay.com/itm/333675901157 So now I can get back to making some progress on repairing the H222A in my MM11-DP :-}! From: pbirkel(a)gmail.com Sent: Friday, March 11, 2022 10:01 AM To: General Discussion: On-Topic Posts <cctech(a)classiccmp.org> Subject: Seeking a MC75325L Dual Memory Driver I have here in my hands a DEC H222A (16Kx18), part of a MM11-DP, that took a blow at sometime in the past. In consequence there are a number of small parts damaged (snapped diode, crushed axial electrolytic, chipped mica capacitor, cracked/broken SIP resister net) but those all appear to be relatively easy to replace. What's not so easy to replace is the MC75325L Dual Memory Driver (L = Ceramic) that was de-lidded in the process :-<. I am wondering whether anyone has one of these ICs in their spare parts drawer that I could acquire? I do see a MC75325P (plastic) on eBay at littlediode_components for ~20USD, plus a surprisingly modest shipping charge (Royal Mail International). UTSOURCE claims to have a supplier of the ceramic part "new", with a significantly higher shipping charge. Before I go with the ceramic part (IMO not the sort of packaging that gets . remarked) I thought that I would check here for alternative sources. Thank you, paul

1 year, 4 months

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Re: How enough is Enough? Was Re: Re: AI? Really?

by Kevin Anderson

I prefer to use the Daily Digest mode. Then you can quickly glance at the topics and decide whether it is worth reading any particular messages. The pain comes when you may want to contribute something, as then you need to reconstruct enough of the message of concern in a new composition and reply that way. Kevin Anderson Dubuque, Iowa

1 year, 4 months

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Re: AI? Really?

by donald donaldwhittemore.com

I don’t trip and fall. I perform gravity checks.

1 year, 4 months

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Re: AI? Really?

by Robert Feldman

Message: 3 Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2025 08:44:29 -0700 From: ben <bfranchuk(a)jetnet.ab.ca> Subject: [cctalk] Re: AI? Really? On 2025-01-23 8:15 a.m., Alexander Schreiber wrote: On Tue, Jan 21, 2025 at 12:52:49PM -0700, ben via cctalk wrote: On 2025-01-21 10:54 a.m., Paul Koning wrote: Uh, what? How would the earth surface gravity be that much different? "Citation needed" as Wikipedia would say. paul https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autodynamics Ah, crackpot nonsense: "mainstream physicists have considered autodynamics a crackpot theory for decades" - which is right there on the Wikipedia page. Kind regards, Alex. How lucky I am that I am not a "mainstream physicist". A true scientist looks at the evidence, not what is discussed by others. I also like the expanding earth theory, vs continental drift. Where is all that energy to move the plates around. The answer to your question is one that even mainstream physicists (Lord Kelvin) have gotten wrong in the past. See https://www.americanscientist.org/article/kelvin-perry-and-the-age-of-the-e…

1 year, 4 months

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AI? Really?

by Bill Gunshannon

A little humor for the group. Among my other "legacy" systems I also have and still fool around with a bunch of TRS-80's. Believe it or not, the Z80 based TRS-80's were among the systems for which a version of STVOS was available. Thought I would look to see if any of it was still floating around. Asked Google "TRS-80 Software Tools Virtual Operating System" Got this result at the top of my response generated by whatever AI engine they use. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- A "TRS-80 Software Tools Virtual Operating System" refers to a software program that allows a modern computer to emulate a vintage TRS-80 computer, essentially creating a virtual environment where you can run old TRS-80 software, including operating systems like TRSDOS, by simulating the hardware and functionality of the original machine, letting you access and use programs designed for the TRS-80 on your current computer. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- That is the biggest pile of steaming poo I have ever seen come out of any of the various AI engines I have run into. Not one piece of it is accurate other than the mention of TRSDOS. I also have a bunch of iRobot Roombas in my house. Based on my experience with AI and robots I think there is no chance we will have to worry about any Terminators in the future. bill

1 year, 4 months

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TMS9981A - CPU needed...

by John Robertson

Hi Folks! Anyone have one or more of the old TI CPUs? The usual suspects don't stock it (Unicorn, Abra, Jameco...). I have a customers game board in where the CPU was backwards and previously destroyed... In case anyone is curious the game was from Japan - Universal's COSMIC GUERILLA. This is NOT the TMS9918A - video chip - that some folks are trying to emulate with Raspberry Pi(e)s. Thanks! John :-#)# -- John's Jukes Ltd. 7 - 3979 Marine Way, Burnaby, BC, Canada V5J 5E3 Call (604)872-5757 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out"

1 year, 4 months

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Re: Ram and vram

by Teo Zenios

How much for the quadra VRAM and how many are there? -----------------------------------------From: "Juan del Pino via cctalk" To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org Cc: "Juan del Pino" Sent: Tuesday January 21 2025 11:24:00AM Subject: [cctalk] Ram and vram Hello, people: anyone interested? hitachi hb56a19a. 150 TC514400ASJ-70 256KB VRAM Apple Macintosh Quadra 700 900 950 68-Pin SIMM RAM 70ns MT42C8128DJ-7 50 IBM Memory Ram 4MB 1M x 32 B1D1320BA-7 DRAM SIMM 72 PINES 60NS 16MB TI TMS417409ADJ-2E. x2 Thanks

1 year, 4 months

2
1
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Ram and vram

by Juan del Pino

Hello, people: anyone interested? hitachi hb56a19a. 150 TC514400ASJ-70 256KB VRAM Apple Macintosh Quadra 700 900 950 68-Pin SIMM RAM 70ns MT42C8128DJ-7 50 IBM Memory Ram 4MB 1M x 32 B1D1320BA-7 DRAM SIMM 72 PINES 60NS 16MB TI TMS417409ADJ-2E. x2 Thanks

1 year, 4 months

1
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Looking for bootable floppy image for a PDP11/20

by Martin Eberhard

I'm in the process of restoring a PDP11/20. Here is what is working so far: KA11 PDP11/20 CPU , power supply, programmer's console, etc. 32Kx16 SRAM/ROM board of my own design (Core memory will come later!) KE11-A Extended Arithmetic Element RX211 controller with RX02 drive, cleaned, spindle bearings replaced, aligned, tested, and working DL11-W Serial Line Unit with Real-Time Clock DL11 2nd serial port, modified to operate at 19,200 baud VT100, connected to the DL11-W I've written a program that lets me load a raw disk image (via Xmodem protocol) from the serial port onto a floppy disk, and verify the write. This works great, for both single-density and double-density. (It can set the media density as needed too.) I'm now looking for a bootable RT-11 floppy disk image (just a raw image, e.g. .IMG) that can boot and run on this limited hardware. The file should be exactly 256,256 bytes long if single-density, or 512,512 bytes long of double-density. (Actually, anything bootable on this hardware would be appreciated!) I'm new to this forum - let me know what is the protocol for giving you my email address... Thanks! Martin E.

1 year, 4 months

6
9
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null modem for DEC Pro 380

by Cameron Kaiser

DEC Pro owners: does the DEC Professional use a straight-thru serial cable, or null? -- ------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ -- Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser(a)floodgap.com -- BOND THEME NOW PLAYING: "All-Time High" from "Octopussy" -------------------

1 year, 4 months

2
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VCF EAST 2025 CALL FOR VOLUNTEERS!

by Jeffrey Brace

Volunteers are the backbone of making VCF East one of the best vintage computer shows. We are in need of volunteers in all areas. VCF East 2025 <https://vcfed.org/events/vintage-computer-festival-east/> takes place April 4-6 in Wall, NJ at the InfoAge Science and History Museums. Register to become a volunteer today! <https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLScRIqB1ZuseQ2ANYszT2RTw2_AMnnCv0ZI…> Click here to read Volunteer FAQ <https://vcfed.org/vcf-east-volunteers-faq/> Thanks! Jeff Brace VCF East Showrunner Vintage Computer Federation is a 501c3 charity https://vcfed.org/ <http://www.vcfed.org/>

1 year, 4 months

1
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AI? Really?

by Anders Gustafsson

Yes. I tried Operas Aria and asked a bit about HP1000 A-series. I started by asking the difference between A900 and A400 and got a reply that was partly correct, then followed up with some specific questions about the A400 that I happen to know rather well. It insisted that it had only 32Mb and it corrected itself. But the problem as always was that the answer LOOKED ok, but there was no way, without prior knowledge to weed out the errors. -- Med vänlig hälsning Anders Gustafsson, ingenjör

1 year, 4 months

1
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New DRAM (SIMM) board works but gives a parity error, only on cold powerup

by Anders Gustafsson

OK. As usual was the problem quite evident, once I understood it... I have two A400 boards. On that board I tested with I never took note of switch 8. It was unfortunately set to OFF indicating that there was backup power for memory. Thus the power lost flag was never set, which caused the parity error on startup. -- Med vänlig hälsning Anders Gustafsson, ingenjör

1 year, 4 months

1
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CDC Cyber 18x parts

by hupfadekroua

Hello all, I‘m searching the following CDC parts: 52948476 CM Board extender 91915206 CM Board extender 24614635 ZIF Board extender Of course I do know looking for such kind of items in our days may be some kind of peculiar, but who knows … Andreas

1 year, 4 months

2
2
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Try Algol 68 on Windows

by Mike Parr

Hello all. Here is a link to something I wrote - brief intro to Algol 68's background, and how to run it on Windows - with a toy IDE as well. https://mikeparr.info/algol68.html Mike Parr

1 year, 4 months

25
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Re: AI? Really?

by donald donaldwhittemore.com

Skynet became self-aware on August 29, 1997, at 2:14 a.m. EDT.

1 year, 4 months

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OT: not that classic but already old: Cubieboard2

by Holm Tiffe

Hi all, I've got 3 pcs. Cubieboard 2 SBC's with the Allwinner A20 SOC Chip on them. That's kind of a RaspberryPi SBC with an 2 Code Arm7hf on it. The boards are equipped with HDMI, USB, Ethernet (100Tx), SATA, SD Card slot and some 4G NAND Flash Cip on it. RAM is 1 Gbyte, CPU Clock is 996Mhz. Additionally I've bought some Base Boards for them, that's the DVK521 from Waveshare..contains the Baseboard, an Camera Module OV670, a 7" LCD with LVDS, a thermo sensor and other things.. Good HW in my eyes, but already outdated. I wnt to use the boards for some Home/house related stuff, PV, heating, Light control etc. and for that they should be more than enough. The Chips even have an graphics accelerator in the SOC. Now the Problem: as far as I know Allwinner has made some mistake using gnu/Linux stuff without any respecting the GPL. Because of that (if no other cause) most of the support Software on the net seems to be gone. There where some different Linux distributions for it, (Linaro, Cubieez etc) but most of the stuff isn't available anymore because of dead links. I've successfully build an modern Armbian image for them..but have endless trouble. The Xserver configutres an not existing Video Output, the LCD is unknown at all and if I manage to switch the X-server to the HDMI output using xrandr (only with tricks because it needs a session) the performance is like some old thick glue... Besides of that I had to fix an already for 8 years known Bug in the A20 Ethernet driver (it simpy has a more modern ethernet Unit as the A10 inside) that was'nt fixed at all. Armbian has only "community Support" fo those chips..which means that there is no support at all. If one asks for help the answer is more or less "find it yourself and provide a patch". I have an Linaro disk image that seems to be working, but there are some parts missing. The base distribution seems to be ubuntu 12.04 LTS (precise Pangolin) for armhf. I can't find a package repository anymore..(since that's long outdated). I've managed to install ssh by using an tarball of an ubuntu 12.04 armhf image for another board..and it works..but sshd is still missing. There are more modern disk images at https://mega.nz/folder/ZtwxCCJC#AIYHcTqz-ucjuzKnE9qD7A/folder/t0p2SBQD but mostly they don't even boot..possibly they using an newer/other uboot and uboot-envirnonment... Now the question: Is someone in the world still using those boards and has disk images/software for them? Again: I'ts not that much interesting that this is old linux, because I'll use that only inhouse in the lan, not browsing actual websites.. I'm a BSD guy and not know that much about Linux, especially such things as configurations for uboot etc. and there is none that I could ask for such things. Kind Regards, Holm -- Technik Service u. Handel Tiffe, www.tsht.de, Holm Tiffe, Goethestrasse 15, 09569 Oederan, USt-Id: DE253710583 info(a)tsht.de Tel +49 37292 709778 Mobil: 0172 8790 741

1 year, 4 months

3
3
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Fanuc Tape Reader PECs 1980's - Connector Identification

by Martin Bishop

1980's Fanuc tape reader PECs are fitted with two families of connector I am unfamiliar with : one is used for power and the other for signal connections -further detail and pictures in the following VCF post No joy on Burndy website or at BitSavers - wisdom gratefully received https://forum.vcfed.org/index.php?threads/fanuc-pec-connectors-who-is-the-o… Martin

1 year, 4 months

7
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Fwd: SBC6128

by Doug Jackson

Hi Dave, I'll send this to the group, I suspect my email made it into your spam. Doug ---------- Forwarded message --------- From: Doug Jackson <doug(a)doughq.com> Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2025, 6:05 am Subject: Re: SBC6128 To: <dave.g4ugm(a)gmail.com> Hi Dave, I was just researching the IOB6120 (I had an 8 at the end of the model.. sigh - memory is often faulty) WOW - I had no idea that existed. I also had no idea that the community picked up Bob's designs and ran with them so enthusiastically - I feel like I have been under a rock for quite a while. I would be very very happy to purchase your board + IOB that you have put together - If the enclosure is not ideal, I am very happy to update that - these little boards are awesome. Just let me know a Paypal address and shipping details. Kindest regards, Doug Jackson em: doug(a)doughq.com ph: 0414 986878 Follow my amateur radio adventures at vk1zdj.net On Tue, 14 Jan 2025 at 05:37, Doug Jackson <doug(a)doughq.com> wrote: > Hi Dave, > > Thanks so much for that. > > Yes, postage is a pain, but necessary. > > If you are not using it, then the partially built one makes sense > (assuming you can find the programable logic and CPU). > > Failing that, then I don't mind paying the 250 Pounds for the built board > as long as it's complete :-) As I said, I was devastated. > > Are you able to double check and send me some photos. > > For a shipping address, I am at: > > Doug Jackson > 5 Pinschof Place, > Gordn, ACT, 2906 > Australia > +61 414 986878 > > Kindest regards, > > Doug Jackson > > em: doug(a)doughq.com > ph: 0414 986878 > > Follow my amateur radio adventures at vk1zdj.net > >

1 year, 4 months

3
6
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New DRAM (SIMM) board works but gives a parity error, only on cold powerup

by Anders Gustafsson

Hi! I have been mostly lurking here, but I have been designing a DRAM board for the HP1000 A-Series, using a more modern 72-pin SIMM. The A400 can adress 32Mb of parity ram so I use 17 bits on a 64Mb SIMM. I have taken inspiration from the original HP12103X boards and tried to keep away from esoteric parts. The board prototype works now and passes all tests, except that it gives a partity error in one of the first addresses (ie 2,7,10 octal) when booted cold. If I then run a %T it works fine, and also if I reset by bringing PON low. I have tested with different SIMMs and the two different types I have tested both exhibit the same issue. The 64Mb one has Samsung KM41C16000C chips. As this is for hobby-use, it is not a big deal as the board works, otherwise, but it is annoying. If anyone here, and I expect there are several that have worked with DRAM chips, have any suggestions on this issue or the board in general? Schematic is here:www.dalton.ax/hp1000/Memory/HP1000RAM_SIMM_Buffers_20241130.pdf Yes. I have also written protocol decodes for the KingstWiz LA5032 32-bit LA to analyse the HP memory bus if anyone is interested. -- Med vänlig hälsning Anders Gustafsson, ingenjör

1 year, 4 months

1
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DECtalk for Digital UNIX

by Cameron Kaiser

Anyone out there collecting Digital UNIX or Tru64 stuff? I'm trying to find the Alpha version of DECtalk V4.2A that ran on Digital UNIX. The readme file is easy to find but not the actual package. If you know where it is or have a good guess, I'd be much obliged (and so will this AlphaPC 164LX running Tru64 5.1B). -- ------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ -- Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser(a)floodgap.com -- The surest test of discipline is its absence. -- Clara Barton --------------

1 year, 5 months

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Not Try Algol 68 on Windows

by Lyndon Nerenberg (VE7TFX/VE6BBM)

Could we maybe change the subject headers here? Neither Fortran nor IBM terminal controllers has anything to do with Algol :-)

1 year, 5 months

2
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Re: Try Algol 68 on Windows

by Paul McJones

This sounds like FLACC (Full Language Algol68 Checkout Compiler) by Chris Thomson and Colin Broughton: "You know, we only ever got 22 copies installed, and less than 5 of those in North America. Even though it ran on 370's under MVS, CMS and MTS, and was cheap and reliable. Talk about a marketing disaster. " [Chris Thomson, comp.lang.misc, November 27, 1988] https://www.softwarepreservation.org/projects/ALGOL/algol68impl/#FLACC > Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2025 07:02:08 -0800 > From: "Lyndon Nerenberg (VE7TFX/VE6BBM)" <lyndon(a)orthanc.ca <mailto:lyndon@orthanc.ca>> > Subject: [cctalk] Re: Try Algol 68 on Windows > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org <mailto:cctalk@classiccmp.org>> > Message-ID: <58bac767a09d3a37(a)orthanc.ca <mailto:58bac767a09d3a37@orthanc.ca>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Mike Parr via cctalk writes: >> Hello all. >> Here is a link to something I wrote - brief intro to Algol 68's background, a >> nd how to run it on Windows - with a toy IDE as well. > > This triggers a fuzzy memory of an Algol 68 compiler running on > MTS at the U of Alberta, circa 1980. ISTR Chris Thompson at UofA > Computing Services had a hand in its development. > > Was this just a UofA thing? Did it escape to other MTS installations? > Did anyone use it to write substantial programs on MTS? Or was it > intended for Comp. Sci. teaching purposes? > > --lyndon

1 year, 5 months

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Re: Try Algol 68 on Windows

by donald donaldwhittemore.com

Yes, but punch cards did not have to worry about magnets. 😊

1 year, 5 months

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Re: FOCAL history

by Paul McJones

Note in his "FOCAL Notes and Background <http://www.softwarepreservation.net/projects/FOCAL/index#Merrill2024>”, Rick Merrill said: "Back in Maynard I took an editor, a floating point package and the specs for the JOHNNIAC Open Shop System (JOSS) and ideas from the Massachusetts General Hospital Utility Multi-Programming System (MUMPS) and wrote an interpreter that would do the user's job on the spot and interactively" > Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2025 10:33:46 +0100 > From: Hans-Ulrich Hölscher <vaxorcist(a)googlemail.com <mailto:vaxorcist@googlemail.com>> > Subject: [cctalk] Re: FOCAL history > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org <mailto:cctalk@classiccmp.org>> > Cc: Mike Parr <mikeparr(a)live.com <mailto:mikeparr@live.com>> > Message-ID: > <CABG6mpaVHJWhECDiuxHZQcj+GwohHqqh9=HWJR0f2ooT+0PnPQ(a)mail.gmail.com <mailto:CABG6mpaVHJWhECDiuxHZQcj+GwohHqqh9=HWJR0f2ooT+0PnPQ@mail.gmail.com>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > Sorry, no: > BASIC 1963 > FOCAL 1968 > > Hans-Ulrich Hölscher <vaxorcist(a)googlemail.com <mailto:vaxorcist@googlemail.com>> schrieb am Mo., 13. Jan. > 2025, 10:31: > >> Isn't FOCAL older than BASIC? >> >> Mike Parr via cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org <mailto:cctalk@classiccmp.org>> schrieb am Mo., 13. Jan. >> 2025, 10:03: >> >>> I wondered about any influences from BASIC?

1 year, 5 months

1
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Re: Try Algol 68 on Windows (fwd)

by Lyndon Nerenberg (VE7TFX/VE6BBM)

[Oops. Forgot to cc the list the first time.]

1 year, 5 months

1
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Spare Time Gizmos SBC6128 PDP8 board

by Doug Jackson

Hi everybody, I used to own a SBC6128 which I built from Spare Time Gizmo's. It was a PDP8 on a chip, using a Harris 6128 PDP8 on a chip. It featured a serial port and an IDE disk interface. It was a heap of fun to use and recreated quite faithfully, my PDP8 that I had access to as a kid circa 1985... Sadly, I had to move a few years ago, and search as I can, I can't find it. I also can't find my HP41 HPIL cassette drive, printer and accessories but that's another story. Does anybody have a bare PCB or a built one that they don't use any more? I know I'm in Australia, but I don't mind paying postage. Happy to pay whatever you need.. Kindest regards, Doug Jackson

1 year, 5 months

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FOCAL history

by Bruce Ray

'FOCAL's history is now highlighted on the Software Preservation Group web site. Originally created for the PDP-8 in 1968, this simple, approachable computer language significantly expanded the use of early DEC minicomputers into applications not previously possible. It was embraced by users in an extremely wide range of applications, like education, psychology, aviation, medicine, to nuclear physics and process control. Read about the personal motivations and decisions that shaped this language and its wide-ranging impact at: https://www.SoftwarePreservation.org/projects/FOCAL -- Bruce Ray Wild Hare Computer Systems, Inc. Denver, Colorado USA bkr(a)WildHareComputers.com ...preserving the Data General legacy: www.NovasAreForever.org

1 year, 5 months

3
3
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Looking for S100 SCSI stuff

by Richard Cini

All — I haven’t posted to this list in the recent past, mostly posting to VCF or the S100 group. But, I’m trying to cast my net wide looking for some specific things for a project I’m working on. I’ve done recreations/clones of two Lomas S100 boards – the Color Magic and the Thunder 186 (https://github.com/RichCini/LomasBoards). This set creates a two-board computer that can run unmodified PC-DOS. While it’s PC-compatible, it’s compatible in the Tandy 2000 kind of way. I started work on the Color Magic about 2 years ago, pending reversing the PALs, which happened this year. The Thunder 186 was much easier to recreate, and thus was done in a few months. What this system currently lacks is a mass storage option. Lomas offered a SCSI board (which added an RTC and 4 serial ports), but copies of the manual and schematics aren’t known to exist on the Internet. There’s also a great alternative, the Lifeboat SCSI (for the Z-100 machines), but I haven’t been able to locate the software drivers or firmware for it (I have a manual which has the schematic and PAL equations). Finally, I can almost get Windows 1.0 running on this setup, but it needs custom drivers. I have the drivers from the Tandy 2000 (aka, the "Tandy 2000 MS-Windows Pre-Installation Disk") which don’t work as-is but I believe could with modifications. I posted to the Tandy Discord server but if anyone should know of the existence of these sources, please let me know. Thanks! Rich -- Rich Cini http://cini.classiccmp.org

1 year, 5 months

1
0
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PDP-10 TENEX mini-dump format

by Chuck Guzis

I've got a 7 track tape here that was written on a PDP-10 TENEX setup. It's identified as a "mini-dump" tape. I can extract the data (PDP-10 5 char/word) successfully, but the format of the block headers (seems to be about 6 words) eludes me. I'd like to be able to use the original file names. Does anyone have information on the mini-dump structure? TIA Chuck

1 year, 5 months

6
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Re: [PiDP-11] A propere RDBMS for RSX-11M+

by Ed Groenenberg

Hello Mark. The Oracle V2.3 manual is only partly usable for 4.1.4. The build/install scripts copies a help file to [1,1] and you only need to add the keyword and reference to the help file in mcr.hlp and dcl.hlp. Yhos help file is mucht more usefull. If you used the newsinst.cmd file after the installation, it will create a demo database (scott/tiger), which has several similarities compared to V2.3. Main difference for UFI, in v2.3 it is 'ufi personnel scott/tiger' whereas in V4 it is 'ufi scott/tiger' for the basic demo. Ed -- Ik email, dus ik besta 😆 January 2, 2025 4:26 PM, "Mark Matlock" <mark(a)rsx11m.com> wrote: > Ed, > Congrats to both you and Johnny on bringing this Oracle software back from extinction!! > > I was a big fan of Datatrieve but haven’t worked with Oracle before. I downloaded the V2.3 manuals > and have started reading them, but I ran into a question. To use the UFI, one needs to login with a > user name and password. Is there a default one or how do you set one up? I configured my > installation for two users. > > Thanks for this great software archeology development! > Mark > >> On Dec 31, 2024, at 5:59 PM, Ed Groenenberg <ed(a)groenenberg.net> wrote: >> >> The wait was long, but it's finally available, Oracle V4.1.4 for RSX-11M+. >> More at www.oracle-v2.online/oracle414 >> >> Ed >> -- >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "[PiDP-11]" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to >> pidp-11+unsubscribe(a)googlegroups.com. >> To view this discussion visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/f3fe33a34335d8f9bb9daa30ca0a36f0@…. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "[PiDP-11]" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to > pidp-11+unsubscribe(a)googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/46350799-AC28-4EBD-B890-0955A5083….

1 year, 5 months

1
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Re: I need some RSX11M+ TKB help

by Mark Matlock

Peter, The command file below is from a SYSGEN driver build of DDDRV from my system but I think it should work for yours. Note that OU: is defined by the SYSGEN process and should be set as a logical to your system disk (DL0:) or perhaps more simply just edited to be SY: Also, note that it uses RSXVEC.STB which should work on the pregenned RL02 RSX11M+. [200,200]DDDRVBLD.CMD ; ; DDDRVBLD.CMD -- RSX-11M-PLUS loadable DD: driver build command file ; ; Created on 01-NOV-2024 at 14:00:05 ; OU:[1,54]DDDRV/-MM/-HD,SY:[1,34]DDDRV/SH/-SP,OU:[1,54]DDDRV= SY:[1,24]RSX11M/LB:DDDRV:DDTAB LB:[3,54]RSXVEC.STB/SS LB:[1,1]EXELIB/LB / STACK=0 PAR=DRVPAR:120000:20000 / If for some reason you need to assemble the DDDRV driver below is the SYSGEN produced assembly command files. [200,200]DDDRVASM.CMD ; ; DDDRVASM.CMD -- RSX-11M-PLUS loadable DD: driver assembly command file ; ; Created on 01-NOV-2024 at 12:56:02 ; OU:[11,24]DDDRV,LS:[11,34]DDDRV/-SP=IN:[1,1]EXEMC/ML,[11,10]RSXMC/PA:1,DDDRV OU:[11,24]DDTAB,LS:[11,34]DDTAB/-SP=IN:[1,1]EXEMC/ML,[11,10]RSXMC/PA:1,DDTAB Good Luck, Mark > > 1. I need some RSX11M+ TKB help (Peter Ekstrom) > > From: Peter Ekstrom <epekstrom(a)gmail.com> > Subject: [cctalk] I need some RSX11M+ TKB help > Date: December 29, 2024 at 6:21:46 PM CST > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> > Reply-To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> > > I have RSX11M+ 4.6 BL87 installed and running on my real PDP 11/23+ and > have gotten DECnet to work as well. But recently a need to access a TU58 > tape has come up, and turns out the DD driver on disk isn't built against > the correct RSX11M.STB file. So I need to, I guess, recreate the DDDRV.TSK > file. I have tried some very simplistic TKB commands but keep getting an > error saying a required file is missing. > > I don't have the sysgen stuff on this disk... What I have comes from the > pregenned RL02 image. > > Does anyone know how the TKB command line should look for this? I know, I > am looking for the easy way out. I have skimmed through some manuals but > nothing has stood out to me (I'm sure I missed it). > > Any help would be greatly appreciated. > > - Peter

1 year, 5 months

2
4
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Rainbow Z80 firmware

by Rob Jarratt

Hello everyone, I am working on a Rainbow 100A which is showing a diagnostic code on the lights at the back of 0110101. This is supposed to be Message 1 "Main Board Video". I have disassembled the 8088 firmware and checked address traces with a logic analyser and my suspicion is that actually this is something to do with the interaction with the Z80 because it is reading a status from the shared memory and then using that to set the status lights. I have been unable so far to work out where in the ROMs the Z80 code lives or where in the 8088 code it transfers it to the shared memory to allow the Z80 to run. Can anyone tell me where the Z80 firmware is in the ROMs? And does anyone have any insight into the above error or have details of the interaction between the Z80 and the 8088? The Technical Manual only goes so far unfortunately. Thanks Rob

1 year, 5 months

2
5
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Print chain for 1403

by Van Snyder

The IBM 1403 printer had interchangeable print chains. I know of only four 1403 printers still working — two at the Computer History Museum in Mountain View, CA, one at the IBM Technology Center in Böblingen, Germany, and one near Endicott, NY. All four have the 48-character "A" or "Business" chain, and CHM has a 16-character numeric chain that allows the printer to run twice as fast for numeric-only output. CHM doesn't have an "H" or "Fortran" chain, and as far as I know, none of the others do. The difference is that parentheses are % and "lozenge" — a square with indented edges — apostrophe is @, and = is # on the "A" chain. IBM also had a 64- character chain that included box and line drawing graphics. BTW, nobody seems to know what "lozenge" was meant to represent. Does anybody know of an existing "H" chain or graphics chain for a 1403? Van Snyder

1 year, 5 months

17
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I need some RSX11M+ TKB help

by Peter Ekstrom

I have RSX11M+ 4.6 BL87 installed and running on my real PDP 11/23+ and have gotten DECnet to work as well. But recently a need to access a TU58 tape has come up, and turns out the DD driver on disk isn't built against the correct RSX11M.STB file. So I need to, I guess, recreate the DDDRV.TSK file. I have tried some very simplistic TKB commands but keep getting an error saying a required file is missing. I don't have the sysgen stuff on this disk... What I have comes from the pregenned RL02 image. Does anyone know how the TKB command line should look for this? I know, I am looking for the easy way out. I have skimmed through some manuals but nothing has stood out to me (I'm sure I missed it). Any help would be greatly appreciated. - Peter

1 year, 5 months

1
0
0 0

FTGH IBM 4245 Printer Bands

by Joe George

Anyone have an IBM 4245 printer? I came into a box of NOS print bands and have zero use for them. Don't want to hard them, don't want to throw them out. FTGH, pitch in a couple of bucks for shipping and they're yours. I can get part numbers and quantities if there's interest. There's about a dozen of them and I think they're all the same belt, but do not know for sure.

1 year, 5 months

1
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VCF East 2025 - April 4-6, Wall, NJ - Exhibitor Registration

by Jeffrey Brace

VCF East 2025 Exhibitor Registration is open: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSedyn-m5gSCc0Sifce0O_HnVYtWu7s9u7D… The show will be April 4-6 in Wall, NJ @ InfoAge Science and History Museums Check the web page for updates over the next few weeks https://vcfed.org/events/vintage-computer-festival-east/

1 year, 5 months

1
0
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very old UNIXes software, contact at typewritten?

by jfsebastian＠null.net

Hello I have been doing a several years effort to save (very) old software for posterity, researchers, students. Mostly early 90s UNIXes, SunOS, Solaris, DG-UX, HP-UX, AIX, DEC-UNIX, some VMS software even. I uploaded some things to the Archive, and elsewhere, but I would rather get this off my shoulders, for mortality affects us all. This vanishing would be a loss, with many of these things are nowhere to be found anymore. I tried contacting the admin(?) bear at typewritten dot org, offering a few things for archiving, without results. Do any of the users here have any means to contact the admin there? I would very much like to access some of the UNIXes software there, and would gladly offer a quid pro quo. Similarly, if you have any software for Solaris (2.6, earlier) and other UNIXes, regardless of licensing status, I would be very much interested. Some things probably are lost forever though, such as Proliant PL/I, VisualWorks 2.5, Tibco S-PLUS, Harlequin WebWorks and such. Thanks in advance, and all the best Seb.

1 year, 5 months

13
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Digital lemac (de203) datasheet?

by Kevin Bowling

Was a datasheet ever offered for the DEC 'lemac' series (de203/de204/de205)? Like the thing with all the registers and programming information not the installation guide. Regards, Kevin

1 year, 5 months

1
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Trouble with DEQNA adapter

by Peter Ekstrom

Hi all, This may be a dumb question but I am a bit stumped. I can't seem to find any helpful info in the manuals. I have a DEQNA installed in my 11/23+ and I have run a NETGEN using the QNA driver. When NETINS runs I start seeing messages like these on the console: Event type 5.14, Send failed Occurred 19-DEC-24 09:30:11 on node 10.1 (TYCHO) Line QNA-0 Failure reason = Collision detect check failed So obviously the link isn't working, but I find nothing helpful about where to start looking regarding the failed collision detect check. The line is on: NCP>show line qna-0 status Line status as of 19-DEC-24 09:36:31 Line State QNA-0 On I have an Ethernet transceiver (I have 2 and have tried both, they worked last time I used them) connected to the DEQNA harness, and a cable connecting it to an old 10Base-T hub. I know that hub works because I have a couple of other systems (OS/2 laptop and an AS/400) connected to it. So does anyone have any ideas of where I can start? Thanks in advance! Peter

1 year, 5 months

3
5
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Any Burroughs B5000/A Series NEWP programmers out there?

by Alan Perry

Hey, Did any of you do NEWP programming on Burroughs/Unisys A Series systems? I will be attempting to put together some presentation material (for VCF or similar talks) on MCP internals programming. However I haven’t done it since 1989, so am looking for others who have experience in this area to help me remember details. I took the MCP internals class and still have the class exercises and my notes. Recently a A12/A15 Hardware Operations manual popped up on eBay. I scanned it and submitted the scan to bitsavers. I am hoping to get my hands back on some system architecture documents that I once had. So, if anyone here worked on this stuff and wants to help out on this, let me know. alan

1 year, 5 months

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From Punch Cards to Python Grace Hopper’s A-0 compiler paved the way for modern programming languages

by Christian Liendo

From Punch Cards to Python Grace Hopper’s A-0 compiler paved the way for modern programming languages https://spectrum.ieee.org/from-punch-cards-to-python

1 year, 5 months

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List problems

by Christian Corti

Basically, this message is just a test. The list server seems to be utterly buggy and broken at the moment. What is the reason? Christian

1 year, 5 months

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List problems

by Christian Corti

And worse, I do see some messages in the Mailman frontend, but I don't receive any email from the list server any more. Christian

1 year, 5 months

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Re: Seeking Remex RRS3300 Paper Tape Reader info

by David Wise

If anyone has info on this model, please reply or contact me. Thanks. I recorded video of my RRS3300 reading and winding. Since my initial post, I discovered that the machine needed even more civilizing, and I ended up reducing the reeler speed from 200IPS to 100IPS. Link here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmWAguLki6o . The spiral-wrapped cables at the top go to a microcontroller, which reads the sprocket-hole signal and retards the phase control ramp. [https://www.bing.com/th?id=OVP.qNKj3Byj-dGoXSwjoQbt0AHgFo&pid=Api]<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmWAguLki6o> Remex RRS3300 Paper Tape Reader<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmWAguLki6o> Demonstrating my Remex RRS3300 paper tape reader, made in 1970 with discrete/TTL/DTL technology. The 300cps reader section uses capstan drive and electromagnetic brake instead of a stepper and pinwheel. The spooler is permanent split capacitor AC induction motors, electromagnetic brakes, relays (mechanical and discrete solid-state ... www.youtube.com

1 year, 6 months

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QIC Archival

by Cameron Kelly

Hello, I have a QIC tape of an interesting piece of software that doesn’t seem to be archived anywhere. I don’t have experience using QIC tape so I’m inquiring if anyone here would be willing to offer the service. The software in question is “CorelDraw For Unix”. Thanks, Cameron

1 year, 6 months

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IEEE Spectrum: When IBM Built a War Room for Executives A new video captures a remarkable 1968 demo of IBM’s Executive Terminal

by Christian Liendo

As time goes on new things are found. When IBM Built a War Room for Executives A new video captures a remarkable 1968 demo of IBM’s Executive Terminal https://spectrum.ieee.org/ibm-demo

1 year, 6 months

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Re: Information on Trend UTR 700 Paper Tape Reader and Facit 4060 Punch

by Malcolm Clark

Hi Martin, I am looking for a manual for the above tape reader and found your details from a discussion on cctalk from July 2022. I am a volunteer at The National Museum of Computing and an ex Ferranti engineer. I am currently restoring an Argus 500 computer and trying to get it back to its original configuration. I have recently restored 2 Trend HSR 500 readers and now have acquired 2 UDR 700 readers that need to be fixed and set up. My latest video on YouTube https://youtu.be/8HtRqe6jzc8?si=MmRL4qbh_7PZjVff In the email you said you had scanned the document into a file. Would it be possible to upload it to Google Drive and send me the link so I can download it? Ultimately I would like to upload it to the Museum archive and make it available for everyone to view. I am assuming that there are no copyright issues as Trend was finally wound up as a company in December 2022. Hope to hear from you soon Kind Regards Malcolm Clark

1 year, 6 months

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Old mainframe humor

by Donald Whittemore

NEAT/3 instructions www.myimagecollection.com/webdocs/neat3.pdf Misc instructions www.myimagecollection.com/webdocs/pl-o.pdf Misc Assembler www.myimagecollection.com/webdocs/miscassembler.pdf IBM beginnings www.myimagecollection.com/webdocs/beginning.pdf New IBM OS www.myimagecollection.com/webdocs/newibmos.pdf

1 year, 6 months

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Re: VT-100 Text Windows library

by Henry Bent

If this were my project, I would start by getting newlib going and then seeing if I could use that to run an older (presumably more simple, with fewer requirements) version of screen. -Henry On Mon, Dec 9, 2024, 22:04 Mike Katz <bitwiz(a)12bitsbest.com> wrote: > Overlapping would be amazing, different screen quadrants at a minimum. I > am going to try to port Txwindows as that is the only package I could find > > On Dec 9, 2024 8:40 PM, Henry Bent <henry.r.bent(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > On Thu, 5 Dec 2024 at 20:26, Mike Katz via cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> > wrote: > > Thank you. > > Screen is a linux utility. I am writing this on a bare metal (no > operating system) ESP32 dev board. > > Right now the program is text menu driven. I would like to enhance it > with textual windows. > > The Txwindows package is perfect but over kill and will need some > hacking to work in my environment and it doesn't support the VT-100's > region scrolling so screen updates might be slow. > > > What might be helpful is if you could be more specific about what it is > you're trying to achieve. Do you want arbitrarily sized, overlapping > windows or do you just want the screen divided up into discrete segments? > > -Henry > > >

1 year, 6 months

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Sequent RAM identification help

by Aaron Taylor

Hello, While cleaning my garage I ran across 100+ sticks of RAM that I can't identify. Does anyone recognize these? Are they of use to anyone? https://imgur.com/a/xUnBuEg Note that there are two types of RAM in the photos and they have different keying notches in the middle of the connector. One has a PCB copyright of 1997 and the other is 1999. Both are marked "Sequent Computer Systems", and are buffered, ECC, 256 MB, 50 ns, EDO RAM. Aaron

1 year, 6 months

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Philips P2000C disk format

by Tony Duell

The quick version : Does anyone know the exact physical and logical disk format used by CP/M on the Philips P2000C portable computer? The long version with explanations : I am having reasonable success transfering files to/from disk images for my Osborne 1A (using cpmtools) and IBM5155 (MS-DOS, of course using editdisk). And I've even got the Greaseweazle to transfer those images to/from real floppies. The Greaseweazle still annoys me in that I know it's capable of a lot more if only I could work out how to do it, but at least it does something useful [The less said about floppy disks shedding oxide and/or suffering from 'sticky shed' the better. I'm spending far too much time dismantling and cleaning drives....] Any, I'd like to do the same for another of my machines, a Philips P2000C cp/m 'portable'. My machine is the version with 2 internal 40 cylinder single head drives (about 160K each, MFM) but I can also plug in an external 80 cylinder double head drive to handle this machine's other native format (about 640K). Unfortunately, this machine is not common, and neither cpmtools nor the greaseweazle software has the formats predefined. I could add them myself -- if I knew what they were. Things like #sectors/track, sector size, #system tracks, skew, etc. It's not obviously given in any of the manuals I have, so does anyone know it before I try to work it out. Alternatively there are rumours that the P2000C could read/write at least one more common cp/m disk type. The hardware should be capable of it, sure. Doe anyone know if software to do something like this exists anywhere for the P2000C. I can't find it on any of the obvious sites -tony

1 year, 6 months

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A bit of humor to test the list

by Fred Cisin

They seem to have upgraded the video output! > I found the picture on the front page of this web site humorous. It's a > place that sells old Jeep parts. Note the computer surfing the web. > https://www.kaiserwillys.com/

1 year, 6 months

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Cleaning Card Punch

by David Wade

Folks, I have been trying to restore a manual card punch. The type with 12 "Buttons" or "Plungers" that operate a lever which pushes a punch "pin" through a die to create a hole in a card. Its almost identical to this one:- https://www.computinghistory.org.uk/det/38019/ICL-Hand-Key-Punch-Card-Machi… so despite lots of cleaning some of the pins stick down. Does any one have any suggestions how to clean the small square slots? Any idea how the holes were made? Dave G4UGM

1 year, 6 months

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European wire size (slightly off topic)

by Charles Dickman

How are small wire sizes specified in Europe? I have seen that EN 60228 defines wire cross sections down to 0.5mm2. What about smaller than that? Does the standard go smaller? Stranded wire must consist of smaller solid strands. -chuck Off topic, but perhaps edifying for all.

1 year, 6 months

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List outage

by Dennis Boone

Folks, Apologies for the list outage. Jason thinks this has been going on since roughly 11/16. I guess the sense of relief at no inbound list emails kept me from realizing there were no list emails. :) I think it's better. Will keep an eye on it. De

1 year, 6 months

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A bit of humor to test the list

by wrcooke＠wrcooke.net

I found the picture on the front page of this web site humorous. It's a place that sells old Jeep parts. Note the computer surfing the web. https://www.kaiserwillys.com/ Will

1 year, 6 months

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Passing of T. Kurtz

by Murray McCullough

Today another giant in the ‘microcomputer’ industry has passed: Thomas Eugene Kurtz a computer scientist, co-creator/inventor with John Kemeny of the BASIC language that I grew up with. Somewhat dates me! Happy computing, Murray 🙂

1 year, 7 months

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The 8086

by Murray McCullough

To my knowledge Intel announced the C8086 processor in Nov. 1978. This processor set the stage for the current technological age. It continues to adapt and its future seems bright! Happy computing, Murray 🙂

1 year, 7 months

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Date of IBM 1/2" tape from factory number

by Chuck Guzis

Dear list denizens, I've got a mental itch that needs to be scratched. Before me sits a yellow 3-hole reel of IBM 556 bpi 1/2" tape. Fortunately, the leader is intact and carries the number H241032488. Does this perchance give any clue as to when the tape was manufactured? I know that IBM still carried 556-tested tape in their catalog as late as 1966. Any clues? Thanks, --Chuck

1 year, 7 months

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Fanuc A860-0056-T020 : 24 V supplies

by Martin Bishop

Bill A few years ago I took your advice on interfacing a Fanuc tape reader without reels, it has happily read tapes to its host since then. The interface card was the common A20B-007-0750/07B, with 24V, 5V & Gnd on CNT3, and IO signals on CNT1. Notably the 24V currents can be high, eg 1A2 when in auto. I now have a Fanuc A860-0056-T020 tape reader with reels on the bench and know that several years ago you used the same model. Two specific questions: - does the CNT1 connector harbour any surprises ? I presume at worst it is a superset of the A20B-007-0750/07B CNT1 interface - how did you feed 24V into the beastie o via CNT1 p23 and p24 ? ie on two ribbon cable cores o I note that TP2 provides 5V/Gnd terminals, but 24V has no terminals ? The Fanuc 6T "manual", helpfully available on your web site, indicates (Fig 3.6a) that the tape readers (with/out reels) are fed 24V and 5V over the ribbon cable. And, that the with reels motors run at 100V. I would be very grateful for an indication of how you implemented the power hook up and intimation of the currents / power levels to be expected. Hopefully, knowledge will keep the magic smoke inside the system. Best Regards Martin

1 year, 7 months

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Looking for Sharp PC-5000 disk drive (CE-510F or possibly MZ-80B)

by Steve Lewis

A while back I started studying more about the Sharp PC-5000 (and had it up and running at VCFSW in 2023). I'm now coming back to that project, and one thing I was never able to find was a compatible 5.25 disk drive. I've collected some information about this system at here: https://voidstar.blog/sharp-pc-5000/ And I am hoping to put together a video about out. But one challenging aspect is that its LCD screen is difficult to record (lots of reflections). And despite having lots of schematic documentation now, I'm still not savvy enough to try to export its screen content to an external device that might have a backlight. From my notes, as I recall.... The 37-pin connector at the back of the PC-5000 is not the same as the 37-pin connector at the back of the IO card with the original IBM PC 5150. I believe the Sharp product model number I am looking for CE-510F (which might be the same as MZ-80B in certain markets). This isn't an urgent thing - the Bubble Memory modules of this PC-5000 are still all working fine and make the system functional. But I do have a set of disk with the system that might be interesting to try out. So just broadcasting here, on the off-chance someone might be familiar with these and know of a stash of accessories (most likely within a Japanese-speaking community, where I think Sharp products were generally more popular). Thanks! Steve v*

1 year, 7 months

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looking for HP 1640B GPIB info

by Sytse van Slooten

Hi all, I have a HP 1640B that I'm trying to get to work. However I can't find any information about it, and while the machine itself it straightforward enough (and I remember enough from when I was using it in my first dayjob) I can not find anything about how to use the GPIB interface that it has. The reason I'm interested is, we've finally managed to add GPIB support to the PDP2011-MINC fpga implementation, and I'd like to test against a different target than the relatively modern Philips/Fluke counter I'm now using. And the 1640B is the only other GPIB instrument I have... The HP doesn't seem to know the ID? command (that causes an error message on the screen). It does respond to a newline (the standard is-this-listener-present test that the MINC code implements), so at least something is working. Does anyone here have any docs on the HP 1640B? It'd be very helpful at least to know which GPIB commands are implemented. thanks in advance! Sytse

1 year, 7 months

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CDC 152 Logic Card Tester

by hupfadekroua

Hello All, I got a CDC 152 Logic Card Tester. This one does have some kind of a patch panel to configure the cordwood module test procedure. I did not find any reference to this unit as well as documentation while querying the internet. Any hints to docs? Best Andreas

1 year, 7 months

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System 360 question

by Donald Whittemore

If I remember right I was told back in the early 70s by our IBM CE that physical damage could be done to our model 30 or 40 if we ran a program that did an Assembler instruction, B * For those non-Assembler people that is an instruction to branch to the location of the instruction. I think it might have caused a heat problem in the core or CCROS or TROS. Possible? Or is my 76 year old brain hallucinating?

1 year, 7 months

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Innovations

by Murray McCullough

A lot happened in the computer industry in early Nov. in the past: Intel's x86 PC architecture was born; lo & behold Windows ME was released upon the world; for the corporate in us the IBM Portable Computer was introduced. The PC world hasn't been the same since. Happy computing, Murray 🙂

1 year, 7 months

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Ward Christensen NY Times Obituary

by Robert Feldman

Ward Christensen, Early Visionary of Social Media, Dies at 78 https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/21/technology/ward-christensen-dead.html?un…

1 year, 7 months

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RQDX3 Formatter

by Peter Ekstrom

Hi everyone, Does anyone have the source for the ZRQCxx formatter? I have found a pdf for ZRQCE0 but am curious if the actual source code for that one, or ZRQCH0 is available? I'd like to make some changes to the UIT table. -Peter

1 year, 7 months

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Re: System 360 question

by donald donaldwhittemore.com

Glad I never tried it. 😊

1 year, 7 months

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OS2 on a ThinkPad

by Steve Lewis

You'd think an IBM operating system on an IBM ThinkPad would be easy-peasy - but good grief, it's taken me over a year to finally get a magic formula that works. Not too new, not too old.... (and yes, I have ArcaOS too, but I wanted an OG 1994 install) One interesting thing I found is that OS/2 can actually run SecondReality (in full screen, but it suspends it when I ALT-ESC to something else) -- including with SBPro audio. I couldn't do that with WinXP yet (same hardware), even though trying explicit DOS settings. I may tinker some more on that, but rebooting to "MS-DOS Mode" in 95/98 can changing EMM386 from NOEMS to RAM then SR works. I'll do a write up on the adventure soon-ish, I'm still trying to figure out the TCP/IP settings stuff for OS/2. My first experience on the Internet was "borrowing" my sister's credit card and racking up $100 for an afternoon of web-surfing on dial up, with OS/2 Warp in 1994. A graphical Traceroute was so neat to see, a graphical Gopher, and some early web sites. Frankly, that day I fully realized that "BBS's are done for" (or cute ANSI couldn't compete with HTML). I paid my sister back, eventually. At the time I thought it was just an activation gate, didn't realize there was a per-minute charge. Sorry sis! Don't leave your card out on the table :P -Steve

1 year, 7 months

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Old TMS3202x Software?

by Holm Tiffe

Hi guys, I've got a bunch of TMS32020 and two TMS320C25 Chips and I want to play with them a little :-) Is the old DOS (orf VMS?) Software still available from somewhere? (Yes, I have an VS4000-90 under the desk..long time ago since I've last booted it, but ...simh also exists). I'm looking for assembler, linker and the simulator that was abailable when those chips came out (1986...) but I can't find any occurences of that old stuff anymore. Was a C compiler available for those old DSP's? Regards, Holm -- Technik Service u. Handel Tiffe, www.tsht.de, Holm Tiffe, Goethestrasse 15, 09569 Oederan, USt-Id: DE253710583 info(a)tsht.de Tel +49 37292 709778 Mobil: 0172 8790 741

1 year, 7 months

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Re: Identify 14" HDD with two heads on single arm

by Evan Linwood

Sorry you'll notice also on the lower half of the front is an aluminium cover that detaches with a couple of screws, revealing another card with additional labelling on it. Also have a look around the inside of the case. Any of those thin, printed strips are where you'll likely find one (or more) of these 005- series numbers. On my unit, the '6098-4' label can be seen on the external rear of the machine, adjacent to and below where the label describing the power characteristics is located.

1 year, 7 months

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Re: Identify 14" HDD with two heads on single arm

by Evan Linwood

Hi Paul, Actually I've got a couple of these units, and as Bruce has indicated yes they're a Data General manufactured product. (Bruce is the one with vastly more DG knowledge than myself). Mine is a '6098', which is really an integrated combination of fixed disk drive, floppy disk drive and controller card. As Bruce has mentioned there will also be the internal DG product number, prefixed with 005, on it somewhere (it's possible yours isn't exactly the same model as mine). This manual is up on Bitsavers: http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dg/disc/Disc_Subsystem/014-000638-00_6097_6098… DG manufactured drives up through 300MB removable pack type drives, and fixed drives with capacities into the multi-GB area (used in MV series systems).

1 year, 7 months

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Identify 14" HDD with two heads on single arm

by pbirkel＠gmail.com

Can anyone identify the 14" HDD seen in the following photo (not mine)? It's unusual in that there are two moving heads on the top surface of the platter. I presume that there's a fixed head on the bottom surface for the clock track. This is from a Data General 6100 disc subsystem which is advertised as 25MB capacity. There's a related model with half that capacity. https://forum.vcfed.org/index.php?attachments/img_5116-jpeg.1288418 The only thing that I can say for sure is that it's visually not a Shugart SA4000 and that exhausts my knowledge on the subject.. While I presume that the 25-signal twisted-pair ribbon cable is for control signals, there is also a 16(?) line grey ribbon cable connected to the left side of the DG-specific power control PCB. I'm guessing that would be data/clock lines from hidden electronics where the 25-signal twisted-pair ribbon originates; not sure what else may be then happening on the DG-specific power control PCB. Thank you for any insights into manufacturer, model, and documentation. -paul

1 year, 7 months

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GE Mark I/Mark II Timeshare Systems

by Rick Bensene

Hello, all, I know that there has been great effort to gather up and make available via emulation (SIMH) timeshared Operating Systems for DEC machines, as well as Hewlett Packard 2000-Series Timeshared BASIC systems, but I was wondering if there has been any efforts made to archive and perhaps emulate any versions of General Electric's timesharing systems? GE's architecture was similar to Hewlett Packard's timeshared BASIC (2000A, C, C', F, /ACCESS) in that there was a main computer that took care of managing the user-space and running user programs, and a communications processor that acted as the front-end that did the terminal services handling. At one point, GE's timesharing system service was the largest timeshared computing service bureau out there, getting an early start in timesharing out of the timesharing research done at Dartmouth, as GE computers were used in this research. The GE timeshare service had local dial-up lines in most major cities, and eventually were connected into Tymnet, further adding to the places where a local dial-up number could get you into any of a number of different GE timeshare systems that were connected to the network. Has anyone done work on emulating any of GE's processors (200-series, 400-series, DATANET machines) that were used in the Mark I and Mark II timesharing systems? GE's place in timesharing history is quite significant, and seems certainly deserving of efforts to procure and preserve the code, and perhaps make it live on through emulation. However, GE being the huge entity that it is (and was back then), getting hands on the code as well as permission to do anything with it could be a challenge that may have been attempted and failed who knows how many times over the years. I'm just wondering if anyone out there may have old listings, mag-tapes, or card decks laying around that have the source(or binary distributions) for any of these GE timesharing systems? If, so, any such media should certainly be put in the hands of an entity that can assure that they are preserved, and perhaps at some point, made available online so that others who may have interest could begin work on emulating these systems. I thought of this today because an old memory came to the fore out of the blue. The memory is very clear despite the many years that have elapsed since then. It is as clear in my mind as it was the day it happened. I have no idea why it has stuck so clearly in my mind. Back in high school, there was a service man that would come in to repair/tune-up the Teletype model 33-ASR's we used to dial into the school district's HP Timeshared BASIC system. These machines were heavily used by students who didn't always treat them gently, and the 33-ASR's weren't really designed for the use they were exposed to, so he would come in frequently to fix machines that had broken down. After he had worked on a Teletype, he would dial-in to some kind of timeshare system with a local phone number and run some test programs to validate the proper operation of the terminal. and then log his work by running a BASIC program that would ask him questions about the job, and he'd fill in the answers. One day, I happened to be working at a Teletype next to the one he was working on, and he had just finished up his work on the machine. He and I had chatted numerous times in the past, so he was comfortable with me, as I was with him. I watched as he dialed up the phone number for the system and I memorized it as he dialed it. I also watched as he entered his account to log into the system. It was IBB00999, and the password was "INFO". I couldn't see the print out from my angle, so I had to watch his fingers as he typed in the information. I tried to be as inconspicuous as possible while watching him, but he made no attempt to block my view or otherwise keep me from seeing what he was doing. He always made a point of taking the printout of his session with him rather than leaving it on the machine or tearing it off and tossing it in the trash. I figure that was a security measure as the at least the user ID would be listed on the paper. But, it didn't stop someone from watching him enter the information. I had become pretty good at watching people's fingers on the keyboard to figure out what they were typing. After he had finished his work, I dialed up the system, and when it asked "USER NUMBER--", I typed in "IBB00999,INFO", and pressed [RETURN]. I guess I had observed what he'd typed correctly, because then the TTY clattered out "SYSTEM--", which I did not happen to note the service man's answer to this query, but I figured it wanted to know what language to use, so I typed in "BASIC", and hit [RETURN]. The system then said "NEW OR OLD--", and since I didn't know what programs were already in the directory, I typed in NEW, and then pressed [RETURN]. I was then greeted with "READY". I'd seen this NEW/OLD used on a DEC RSTS/E system, so I knew it meant either to start fresh with a new program, or if OLD was typed, it'd want to know the name of a program to load from the catalog. I typed in a simple BASIC program, something like generating a listing of numbers and their square roots from 1 to 100, and typed "RUN", and it paused for a short time, then began rattling off the list of numbers. I got nervous, though, and logged out after the program finished (I didn't know how to stop it, though I later figured out that pressing the [BREAK] key would work, just like it did on the HP Timeshared BASIC system. Over the following days, I logged into the system and played with it here and there, making sure to only log short sessions so as not to rack up too much time, as the company that the service guy worked for may have been charged for the online time. I never stayed logged in for more than perhaps 10 minutes at a time, and the programs I tried didn't chew up much in the way of resources. I didn't save any programs, nor did I try to do anything that would leave traces of my visits, other than the fact that I had dialed in and logged in. The system seemed to have a FORTRAN subsystem also, and I was able to enter a small FORTRAN program and RUN it, which was kind of cool. I had learned FORTRAN by taking a class at a local community college that had an IBM 360/30, so I knew enough to be able to enter a simple FORTRAN program and try it out. I thought it was really cool that this system could do both BASIC and FORTRAN. I tried to see if it had COBOL (which I had also learned by taking another class at a community college), but alas, it did not. I don't know if the languages on the system were interpreted, semi-compiled (into pseudo-code which was then interpreted), or fully compiled into machine code. I do know that when you typed RUN to execute a program, the system would pause for some time before execution began, so there must have been some kind of processing going on that could have been compilation of some form. I remember that the system seemed to be quite a bit more responsive than the HP 2000C Timeshared BASIC system the school had access to. It would generally respond to commands immediately, while sometimes the HP system would pause a bit before anything happened. Admittedly, I knew that our HP 2000C system was very busy all the time during the school days as it was shared by quite a few different school districts in the county. I had no idea how many users may have been on the GE timeshared system. It would take longer on the GE system after you typed RUN on a BASIC program before the program started executing, but once it did, it would rip through the program considerably faster than the HP system, especially when it came to doing lots of math. I once entered a program that would calculate factorials, and I ran the programs side by side, one on the HP 2000C, and the other on the GE timeshared system (I didn't know it was a GE system at the time, but figured it out later). I gave the GE system a little head-start because of the processing before the program ran. The program would generate a list of integers and their factorials from 1 to 40. As the numbers got larger, the HP timeshared system would print out the integer and some spaces, then stop for a bit, taking longer as the factorial was computed, and then print the factorial. The program was the same on both systems, but the GE system never paused during the output, and finished just under a minute faster than the HP system. I didn't have any manuals or other documentation for the system, and so I just had to trial-and-error my way through. I'm sure I didn't even begin to scratch the surface of the capabilities of the system, but it was nonetheless interesting to poke around in a system that was different than our timeshare system. After I had tinkered around with it intermittently for a few weeks, I ran out of things to try, and stopped playing with it, partly out of worry about getting caught somehow. A few months later, I thought about it again, and when I tried to login, it appeared that the user had been deleted or the password changed. Perhaps my tinkering had showed up as a larger than usual bill for services, and that resulted in the change. Or, maybe it was policy to change the user/password every so often. It was fun to explore while it lasted. The Teletype service guy would be much more careful when he was dialing up the system and entering his userID/password, and would ask anyone nearby to please turn away while he was connecting up to the system. I have no idea if it was my tinkering that caused this change in behavior, but if I was nearby, I would comply with his request, so I never got a chance to gather up another userID/password. Some years later, my father's business, which was a precision machine shop, had an account on a GE Timeshare System that had the "APT" "part programming language" that was used to describe a machined part. When the APT program was "compiled", it would result in a punched paper tape that would be fed into a Numerically-Controlled machining center to actually create the part. It was very expensive to use, and though my Dad did let me log in once and look around a little, I didn't want to rack up charges, and stayed away from messing with it. The service was discontinued when MASTERCAM came out for the IBM PC and they bought a couple of high-end PC clones and licenses for MASTERCAM. Anyway, enough old memories. If anyone out there had experience with GE timeshared systems, or may know of existence of any distribution media or source listings of the systems, or perhaps has memories of using them, I'd love to read about it. If you think it might be of general interest to the list, post it to the list, but you are certainly welcome to send it to me directly at moc-dot-enesneb+at+bkcir (backwards with special characters spelled out to hopefully prevent it being snarfed up by 5p@mm3rZ). Thanks for reading, and best to all! Rick Bensene https://oldcalculatormuseum.com Beavercreek, Oregon USA

1 year, 7 months

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Recovering intel intellec microcomputers, hardware and software

by jonesthechip＠logicmagic.co.uk

As the venerable intellec microcomputers have reached their half-century, I'm interested in contacting other owners/collectors to try and obtain original assembler tapes (or their contents) to enable restoration of systems to full working order. My particular interest is in the intellec 4 mod 40 (I've rebuilt the one I used in college, 1975-1977) but I don't have the original software, supplied on paper tape. I've also been in contact with other owners and people interested in making replicas of the intellec 8 and mod 80 systems, and there's a lack of info on the the ROM monitors. Given the historical significance of these fine machines (and my personal annoyance at the lack of foresight I had as a callow postgraduate regarding hanging on to copies of paper tape) I'd like to put a shout out to see if any of this information/software is available in a historical nook or cranny somewhere in the computing world and try to gather it together to help complete systems and share the techniques used when 4K of RAM was a really big, expensive and rather hot deal....

1 year, 7 months

3
2
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Looking for a A990 20-slot chassis

by Jesse Dougherty

Does anyone have a 20-slot HP 1000 990 chassis p/n A2959 / A2999 for sale? I can also trade for other 1k / mx HP related hardware. Feel free to email me direct off group to Jesse(a)Cypress-tech.com Thanks Jesse Jesse(a)Cypress-tech.com

1 year, 7 months

1
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Re: Ward Christensen NY Times Obituary

by Fred Cisin

On Wed, 23 Oct 2024, Mike Katz wrote: > I agree with you but phrased differently. XMODEM is ubiquitous but CBBS created a > totally new way of sharing information and is the forerunner of everything from > CompuServe to the internet, instant messaging and even social media. > > Most people reading an obit would not appreciate the significance of a data transfer > protocol however the first "social media" type message system they would understand. Community Memory (Lee Felsenstein, Ephrem Lipkin, et al) preceded it by about five years. BUT, CBBS was the first with dial-up access [from home], rather than dedicated publicly available terminals. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin(a)xenosoft.com

1 year, 7 months

1
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Re: RSX11M installation on real PDP11

by Lee Gleason

On 10/19/2024 12:00 PM, cctalk-request(a)classiccmp.org wrote: > [cctalk] Re: RSX11M installation on real PDP11 >You may want to use simh (where you'll be able to mount tapes and RL02 >images) to do the installation and generate an RD32 image. Once you have >the disk image, use vtserver (note - some versions are limited to 32MB >images, but there are some that remove that limitation - check if the >struct vtcmd in vtserver.c uses 2 or 4 bytes for the block number), or >PDP11GUI (Windows only) to transfer the RD32 disk image to your PDP over a >serial port. If you go this route, be advised, that SIMH creates RD32 disk images are not the same size as a real RD32. This will likely cause problems when writing a SIMH created image to a real disk (and I'm not talking about the additional issues that the trailing metadata on disk images from the Pizzolato version of SIMH can cause - the problem I'm describing is caused by an incorrect disk size value in SIMH). -- Lee K. Gleason N5ZMR Control-G Consultants lee.gleason(a)comcast.net

1 year, 7 months

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Re: Might be antique computer parts

by donald donaldwhittemore.com

I rue the day I lost an eBay auction. It was a PR photo with a good looking model mounting a disk in an open drawer of a 2314. If you looked carefully you would see she was holding a 2311 disk. The 2314 pack was probably too heavy to use for all the repeated takes the photographer wanted. 😊

1 year, 7 months

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RM 380Z software.

by jake utley

I have recently been able to fix my early 380Z blue case however it is a cassette only system and it’s not as simple as adding my spare disk controller so I’m on the lookout for 380 software cassettes or dumps of those cassettes so I can run software on it and demonstrate it at VCF Zurich in January

1 year, 7 months

1
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RSX11M installation on real PDP11

by Peter Ekstrom

Hello to the group, I have acquired some boards and a backplane for a PDP 11/23+. The disk controller is an RQDX3 and I have a 3.5" drive that works as an RX50. I have a greazeweasle so I am able to write RX50 images to 3.5 inch floppies. I also have an RD32 MFM drive that also works. Since I have an M8189 CPU board, I have a second serial port that works as a TU58 device so I can use the tu58em emulator. I also have 512K of memory and a DZV11. Using the TU58 emulator I have been able to get RT-11 up and running on it. My goal though is to try and get RSX11M (I have no FPP right now) on it, but I am somewhat at a loss on how to get it installed. Anyone have any suggestions on how I could do that? I have some .tap files and some RL02 images with various versions of RSX11M, but I don't know how to get them onto my RD32 drive. Thanks in advance for any pointers or suggestions. And let me just say I love finally having a real PDP11!! -Peter

1 year, 7 months

4
4
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CDC Cyber 180/8xx PSU

by hupfadekroua

Hi all, after approx 30 years of waiting our time has come to get hands on a Cyber 180/860a. These systems as other systems before are using 400Hz psus. One approach would be to use a 50Hz/400Hz power converter. There are ones on the market creating almost pure sinus output with minimal harmonics. Another approach would be to substitute the old psu by modern ones, possibly by DC-DC converters or switching powersupplies. Does someone have experience in the substitution of psus in the multiple KW range or did this in the past? Best Andreas

1 year, 7 months

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CDC Documentation and Manuals

by hupfadekroua

Hi all, I do see a lot of CDC documentation on bitsavers like software, hardware concepts, programming concepts, but no logic diagrams, schematics, detailed assembly etc. Didn't publish CDC logic diagrams, schematic, board layouts etc, esp. of course for the 180/8xx series in the past - wasn't such kind of docs ever available? A.

1 year, 8 months

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Re: Ward Christensen (BBS, XMODEM) has died

by Fred Cisin

1945 - 2024 Found dead 10/11/24 in a "wellness check". Little or no other information yet. Ward Christensen created the first "BBS". Then, when he needed to transfer files, he created XMODEM. The XMODEM protocols became the de facto standard for transferring files. Later, there was some competition from Kermit, but, other than being "FROM A UNIVERSITY!", it wasn't nearly as good. Not only are all of the greats dying off, but soon there won't be anybody around who even knew about them. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin(a)xenosoft.com

1 year, 8 months

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Re: LCM STL Files for 3D Printing of DEC PSU Chassis

by hupfadekroua

Next try … https://flic.kr/s/aHBqjBMV48 A. > Am 15.10.2024 um 15:28 schrieb Milo Velimirović <milovelimirovic(a)gmail.com>: > > The photos didn’t make it through. I’ve got a pdp11/05 that I’d like to restore and new PSUs make total sense to me. Please send photos directly. > > Thanks! > —Milo > >> On Oct 12, 2024, at 6:35 AM, hupfadekroua via cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: >> >> Hi all, >> >> Once I visited LCM some years ago I was allowed to visit their repair laboratory. >> >> I was introduced to an approach to substitute DEC BA11 PSU modules by modern DC-DC converter modules. >> >> They used a 3D printed plastic chassis to mount the converter, electrolytic as well as the connectors to be fitted into the psu chassis of a BA11 enclosure, quite nice. >> >> See photo attached … >> >> Does someone knows if this stl or design has been saved while or after LCMs closure? >> >> Best >> >> Andreas >

1 year, 8 months

9
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CHM and CMOA

by Donald Whittemore

If you have 30 minutes and a decent size screen. 2009 and 2014 slide shows. http://www.myimagecollection.com/CHM2009/index.html http://www.myimagecollection.com/CHM2014/index.html And what I sold to CMOA in 2019. They arranged for a 26’ truck to pick it all up. :) http://www.myimagecollection.com/cmoa/ And if you are interested in punchcards, my collection. https://www.ibmjunkman.com/

1 year, 8 months

1
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LCM STL Files for 3D Printing of DEC PSU Chassis

by hupfadekroua

Hi all, Once I visited LCM some years ago I was allowed to visit their repair laboratory. I was introduced to an approach to substitute DEC BA11 PSU modules by modern DC-DC converter modules. They used a 3D printed plastic chassis to mount the converter, electrolytic as well as the connectors to be fitted into the psu chassis of a BA11 enclosure, quite nice. See photo attached … Does someone knows if this stl or design has been saved while or after LCMs closure? Best Andreas

1 year, 8 months

2
2
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CHM Visit in May 2018

by hupfadekroua

Hi all, I'd like to share the photographs I took during my CHM visit in May 2018. https://flic.kr/s/aHBqjBNeWY Andreas

1 year, 8 months

1
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Re: Passing of Edson (Ed) De Castro, Founder of Data General

by Evan Linwood

> Oh, my, of course yes. > This is sad news. I wonder if I can talk my editor into a belated > obit? I feel too ignorant though... I guess you could try I'm a nobody but De Castro was important First person (I think) to put a whole CPU on a single card, at least in a mass-produced machine

1 year, 8 months

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Emails with photos attached to this list

by hupfadekroua

Will emails with embedded/attached photos send to this list published or dropped? Andreas

1 year, 8 months

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Passing of Edson (Ed) De Castro, Founder of Data General

by Evan Linwood

I was surprised to find out this morning that it seems Ed De Castro has passed on September 6 this year. I can't see any reference to this in cctalk, so I'll try to give a short summary of Ed's accomplishments. Many here would know that Ed worked for DEC and was project manager in charge of developing the PDP-8. He left DEC to found DG in the late 60's and was the original designer of their Nova system, introduced to the marketplace when he was 29. Ed was obviously a highly talented engineer, but it was the founding of DG that I would imagine was his most outstanding accomplishment. DG wasn't the first disruptive new entrant in the computing marketplace in that period, or the largest for example with DEC and HP preceding them. In order to stand out, DG used every trick in the marketing/advertising book that they could think of. It seems that DG may have been the first disruptive tech startup to also display a very high level of cheeky confidence as being central to their brand. I get the impression that DG staff took up this spirit and ran with it, at times even faster than management might have liked them to. DG also sounds like a company that required high performance - everyone there knew what the expectations were. Somehow a generally quiet, matter of fact engineer like Ed created a 'pirate ship' that people absolutely thrived in. Perhaps it could even be said that DG were the template, in terms of culture, for what we imagine tech startups to be striving for even today. There are numerous videos on YouTube that give a sense of this, including regarding the Talking Propeller Heads, the inhouse DG rock/comedy band. Looking also at early Apple advertisements, for example, I was struck personally with the similarity in tone and style to DG's advertisements. This quote from http://www.teamfoster.com/billteamfostercom sums up the company well: "The company was a puzzle. It broke all the rules and yet was extremely successful. It had the reputation of being the "bad boy" of the computer industry -- heck, of any industry. And it enjoyed this reputation. DG became a public company less than two years after it was founded and shattered records in making it to the Fortune 500. Too bad Harvard never wrote a case study. It would have been groundbreaking! But if they did Harvard would have had to admit that EVERYTHING they taught about how to run a business could be wrong…" Also this quote from https://www.ithistory.org/honor-roll/mr-edson-ed-de-castro: "Steve Wozniak, Apple's future co-founder, (in high school at the time) was said to be enchanted with the Nova's elegantly designed architecture, and had photos of the machine taped on his bedroom wall." And of course most of us know of Tracy Kidder's Pulitzer prize-winning book, The Soul of a New Machine. These are just some short thoughts from someone who never worked at DG. Hopefully some others here with deeper experience can comment also. Vale Ed De Castro

1 year, 8 months

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Convex and CDC items on ebay.de

by hupfadekroua

Hi, there are some Convex and CDC items on ebay.de Best

1 year, 8 months

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Re: Ward Christensen (BBS, XMODEM) has died

by donald donaldwhittemore.com

I know the name. As I am sure many of us old timers do. 3 years older than me.

1 year, 8 months

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Fwd: RSTS and big MSC disks

by Paul Koning

I meant to reply-all for this. paul > Begin forwarded message: > >> On Oct 9, 2024, at 5:27 PM, Zane Healy <healyzh(a)avanthar.com> wrote: >> >> On Oct 9, 2024, at 10:22 AM, Paul Koning via cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: >>> >>> Earlier there was a question about MSCP disk sizes. I did some checking. >>> >>> RSTS understands all the devices known by name in SIMH, including the "giant" RF73. As of the "big disk" support, which is in V10.1 and I think a few earlier versions, it can handle something that big. It draws the line at 4096 MB; bigger than that and it will tell you the disk is too big when you try to initialize it. I thought it might use only the part it can handle, but no, it simply refuses entirely. >>> >>> Paul >> >> >> I hate to think what setting up a 4GB drive would look like. I have a 1GB SCSI HD for my PDP-11/73 (assuming the drive isn’t dead). I still remember just how long it took the RSTS/E 10.1 install to prepare that drive (so long I only did a single pass on the drive test). >> >> On a related note, Paul, do you have any idea if RSTS/E can be installed from a CD-ROM? I’ve done installs of RT-11 and RSX-11M+ from CD, but couldn’t figure out how to do a RSTS/E install from CD. I can’t remember if I was able to use 4mm DAT, or if I had to use a TK50 (it’s been a *LONG* time since I did any installs). > > I have never seen a RSTS kit on CD-ROM, but it should work just fine. At one time I worked with Fred Knight to help create a "combined kits" CDROM -- one that would hold RSTS plus all the layered products on a bootable CD, including at least a dummy standard CDROM file system so you could recognize it. That required placing two file systems on one device, which turns out to be possible because the starting points ("superblock") of the two are in different blocks. My RSTSFLX V2.x supports creating such a thing. > > While I knew of the plans, I don't think they were ever completed; I certainly never saw any actual delivery. > > So anyway, if you were to create a RSTS disk image file with kits on it and an MSCP bootstrap, and burn that to CDROM, I would think it would be bootable and useable. You might give it a try! > > paul

1 year, 8 months

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RSTS and big MSC disks

by Paul Koning

Earlier there was a question about MSCP disk sizes. I did some checking. RSTS understands all the devices known by name in SIMH, including the "giant" RF73. As of the "big disk" support, which is in V10.1 and I think a few earlier versions, it can handle something that big. It draws the line at 4096 MB; bigger than that and it will tell you the disk is too big when you try to initialize it. I thought it might use only the part it can handle, but no, it simply refuses entirely. paul

1 year, 8 months

3
3
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Valuable floppy archiving: seeking current best practice

by Tom Stepleton

Hi folks, I have a floppy disk data archiving project to undertake, and although I'm aware that this can sometimes lead to spirited discussion (and hope to avoid that!), I'm interested in current good practices for pulling data off of hard-to-replace disks. In this situation, the disks are 8" floppies likely in ordinary IBM 26-sector, 77-track, 128-bytes/sector, double-sided FM format. I have a flux reader and will have a pair of Shugart 851 drives for the job; these likely haven't been used for a while, though. At this stage I'll consider the job done if I manage to get good low-level recordings from the disks: assuming the FM data decodes well and sector CRCs look good, further analysis can come later. The main risk I'm worried about is physical damage to the media. While reportedly the disks don't show visible defects (nb: they belong to someone else so I can't inspect them myself right now), I'm still anxious about any chance I might find the binder that secures the magnetic material to the cookie degraded to the point of allowing the oxide to come free. Most other situations I think I can deal with, but I'd like to have a more concrete plan if I start to find oxide building up on the heads. I'd be interested to know what precautions people might take for common data recovery problems. One option is cyclomethicone for cleaning and lubrication if necessary, but other than "you could use this", I'd be interested to know details of how people put it to use if they are worried about media failure. Meanwhile, I'm disinclined to use isopropanol or other more aggressive solvents given received wisdom, although I know opinions differ here. The disks are boot media and other materials relating to the RSRE Flex operating system <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flex_machine> as developed for PERQ workstations. I'm not aware of other copies of this OS being available, though it would relieve some of the pressure to learn that these weren't the only ones. The disks themselves are primarily ICL-branded although a few indicate manufacture or resale by Maxell, DEC, Inmac, among other brands. Is there anything else that people would advise me to look out for? I did find this thread <https://classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/2018-July/040673.html>, but practices may have advanced in the past six years. I know the whiteboard cleaner that folks seem to have liked is difficult to find these days, particularly here in Britain. I've also had a hard time finding Photo Flo or similar photographic wetting agents and have used deionised water with a drop of dish soap instead. Thanks for any advice, --T

1 year, 8 months

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Might be antique computer parts

by Van Snyder

I have two SPST time delay 12-volt relays packaged like vacuum tubes with octal bases, Amperite models 12N010 (ten seconds) and 12C5 (five seconds). They're in their original boxes. I have no idea what devices used them. It seems a shame to throw them in a recycle bin. Does anybody want them? Van Snyder

1 year, 8 months

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Re: Data General MV/8000 emulator announcement (Bruce Ray)

by Evan Linwood

> A Data General MV/8000 emulator beta release is now available from my DG > legacy preservation web site: This is really something - thanks so much Bruce!

1 year, 8 months

2
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The CMoaA is OK

by Adam Thornton

> > > was reading 16million was raised and going to charity or something?? and > > that the rest got bought by another museum > > > > > https://www.geekwire.com/2024/paul-allen-estate-sells-remaining-living-comp… > > Oh, it's the CMoA? That's actually really really good news. The last time I was in Atlanta, before my parents moved out here (so...2019?), I had a couple hours to kill on my way to visit a high school friend. So I went there, wandered around, and left their Atari on the Easter Egg screen in Adventure. One of the staff noticed that, talked to me for a bit, and asked me to wait while he phoned up Lonnie Mimms (the founder) and asked him to come in and meet me. We talked for a good hour, and it was great. I would describe what he's done there as what I would have liked to have done if I had come from a family business of real-estate-developer money, rather than (not that I'm complaining) IT consultant/sysadmin/software-developer money. The CMoA was not as hands-on as LCM, but it did have some working machines you could play with. Whatever Lonnie got his hands on from the LCM is unlikely to be sold for the metal value. Five years ago, anyway, he seemed serious and his restoration work looked pretty legit. Adam

1 year, 8 months

23
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Dysan Alignment and Performance Testers

by Bill Degnan

I have accumulated various Dysan testers, disks and manuals. Does anyone still use these? I dont recall anyone mentioning use of this tool set but obviously Dysan sold a lot of their testers Bill

1 year, 8 months

17
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Bonhams Auction: APPLE "TWIGGY" MACINTOSH PROTOTYPE USED IN THE DEVELOPMENT OF DEMONSTRATION SOFTWARE.

by Christian Liendo

https://www.bonhams.com/auction/29514/preview-lot/5918785/apple-twiggy-maci… APPLE "TWIGGY" MACINTOSH PROTOTYPE USED IN THE DEVELOPMENT OF DEMONSTRATION SOFTWARE. Macintosh Personal Computer, Apple Computers Inc, Cupertino, CA, [1983], with 5-1/4 inch "Twiggy" disk drive with corresponding slot in front panel, prototype mouse, prototype keyboard. Includes logic board 820-0086-00, copyrighted 1983, featuring Jean-Michel Folon "Mac Man" (Mr. Macintosh) on the edge, with 512 EPROM Adapter board also featuring "Mac Man," contained in pre-production plastic molded case, 330 x 245 x 250 mm, with smooth plastic front panel and with textured plastic case that bears Macintosh team signature molded to interior, but with only Apple logo on back panel and with Apple logo and Macintosh logo in reversed locations as seen only on prototypes, 3 of 4 Trend Plastics rubber feet with Apple logo. Includes prototype keyboard that bears handwritten serial number on label on lower panel and 3 of 4 Trend Plastics rubber feet with Apple logo; prototype M01000 mouse that bears serial number label, but with prototype connector. includes dual density "Twiggy" diskette labeled "Mac Word." THE MACHINE THAT "HAS CHANGED OUR LIVES FOREVER" (Wozniak). Extremely desirable Macintosh prototype with 5 1/4-inch "Twiggy" drive. Original Macintosh team member Dan Kottke on the Folklore.org website fixes the date of this iteration of the digital board to May 1983. The Macintosh began as a personal project of Jef Raskin, who envisioned a Swiss army knife of a computer: a low-cost, easy-to-use, high-volume appliance named for his favorite apple. Already by 1981, utilizing the 16/32-bit Motorola 68000 microprocessor used in the Lisa, they had the design for a machine 60% faster and much less expensive than the Lisa. It was this design that caught the attention of Steve Jobs who, after being removed from the Lisa project, was looking for something new to capture his attention. Once Jobs took interest in the project, it wasn't long before Raskin was forced out. Jobs "immediately saw that [Apple engineer] Burrell [Smith]'s machine could become the future of Apple" (Hertzfeld p 121). Jobs took over the project in January 1981 and more than changed the direction, he wanted to build a "friendly" computer: the personal computer as a tool for personal empowerment. He engendered a non-conformist attitude in his team and a shared vision of a product that was "insanely great." It was an approach that was utilized years later when Jobs returned to save Apple with the iMac, iPod, iPhone and iPad. "The best products, he [Jobs] believed, were 'whole widgets' that were designed end-to-end, with the software closely tailored to the hardware and vice versa. This is what would distinguish the Macintosh, which had an operating system that worked only on its own hardware, from the environment of Microsoft was creating in which its operating system could be used on hardware made by many different companies" (Isaacson p 137). The Macintosh would take the GUI (graphical user interface) that Steve Jobs and the Lisa developers had borrowed from Xerox PARC as well as the WYSIWIG (what you see is what you get) approach also pioneered at Xerox PARC and make it accessible to the masses. Jobs recognized the importance of third-party software developers. After all, it was the third-party spreadsheet program Visicalc, created first only for the Apple II, that drove many to adopt the personal computer—beginning with the Apple II. The team also realized that they had to show software developers how to work with this new playground. Unlike the Apple II where each piece of software could have its own key commands, they wanted to maintain a consistent user experience. The present computer was used by an in-house team member who had moved to Macintosh from the Lisa team. He was tasked with developing demonstrations to show off the computer's capabilities. Among the last-minute major changes to the Macintosh was the disk drive. The original plan was to use the new 5 ¼-inch "Twiggy" drive that was built to greatly expand the capacity of standard floppy disks. It soon became apparent with the release of the Lisa, which featured 2 of these drives, that they were very unreliable and that it would be unfeasible to rely on a single "Twiggy" drive. The team scrambled, under the direction of Jobs, to develop their own 3.5-inch drive with Japanese company Alps based on the latest Sony drive, but realized, excepting Jobs, that they would never make it in time for the projected ship date. The team had to secretly work with Sony until Jobs was ready to acknowledge this—at one point having to hide a Sony employee in the closet to maintain the secret. The finished Macintosh used the new disk format which featured the same data rate as the Twiggy, was more robust than a 5 ¼ inch floppy and small enough to fit into a shirt pocket. Reportedly, Jobs had all of the existing Twiggy prototypes destroyed. The new Macintosh was launched during Superbowl XVIII with what is considered by many to be the greatest commercial of all time, "1984" by Ridley Scott. "The ad cast Macintosh as a warrior for the latter cause—a cool, rebellious, and heroic company that was the only thing standing in the way of the big evil corporation's plan for world domination and total mind control" (Isaacson p 162). Although originally sales were sluggish, the Macintosh's all-in-one, friendly design at a reasonable price eventually won out, and the "insanely great" philosophy of Steve Jobs that it embodied informs the devices that today have been inextricably woven into the fabric of daily life. Hertzfield. Revolution in the Valley. [Sebastopol, 2005]; Isaacson. Steve Jobs NY: [2011]; Levy. Insanely Great [NY: 1995]; Kottke, Daniel. "Macintosh Prototypes." Folklore.Org. Footnotes "There are occasionally short windows in time when incredibly important things get invented that shape the lives of humans for hundreds of years. These events are impossible to anticipate, and the inventors, the participants, are often working not for reasons of money, but for the personal satisfaction of making something great. The development of the Macintosh computer was one of these events, and it has changed our lives forever. Every computer today is basically a Macintosh, a very different type of computer from those that preceded it." Steve Wozniak from the forward of Revolution in the Valley. "I'm one of those people who think that Thomas Edison and the light bulb changed the world a lot more than Karl Marx ever did" (Steve Jobs quoted in Levy's Insanely Great).

1 year, 8 months

1
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93448PC ROM tube

by Bill Degnan

I have a tube of 93448PC ROMS labeled as such: 502991-01 4000-41FF 502991-02 4200-43FF 502991-03 4400-45FF 502991-04 4600-47FF 502991-04 4600-47FF 504236 PAL RM-DPS 1600-14FF 1 unmarked Any guess as to what these went to? Anyone recognize these numbers? Commodore B Series? Throwin' a hail mary pass here Bill

1 year, 8 months

1
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Nintendo is 135 years old

by Tomasz Rola

Hi Quite classic. You would not have believed it - they were not making consoles when they started. [ Nintendo at 135: Key moments in gaming history https://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/articles/c79n845rrj0o ] -- Regards, Tomasz Rola -- ** A C programmer asked whether computer had Buddha's nature. ** ** As the answer, master did "rm -rif" on the programmer's home ** ** directory. And then the C programmer became enlightened... ** ** ** ** Tomasz Rola mailto:tomasz_rola@bigfoot.com **

1 year, 8 months

3
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VCF Swap Meet - Wall, NJ - Oct. 26, 2024

by Jeffrey Brace

IT’S GOING TO BE A *COOL *ONE! 60 degrees, sunny and dry. So buy a VCF hoodie when you get there ;-D We are again having our popular tech swap meet on Saturday Oct. 26 and it will be bigger than ever! VENDOR SIGNUP <https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSfidEMst2MBUxAXSwYTz7AY3MhzNyNt-y4…> CLICK HERE FOR GENERAL INFORMATION <https://vcfed.org/vcf-swap-meet/> *FOOD TRUCK*: We will once again have John’s Cracker Barrel selling delicious food from their food truck. I will see you there! Stay warm! INFORMATION IS HERE: https://vcfed.org/vcf-swap-meet/ Blog Post is here: https://vcfed.org/2024/09/27/tech-swap-meet-sat-oct-26-near-infoage/ Take care! Jeff Brace VCF Mid-Atlantic Event Manager Vintage Computer Federation is a 501c3 charity https://vcfed.org/ <http://www.vcfed.org/>

1 year, 8 months

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request for 5.25 floppies

by Steve Lewis

I feel a little silly asking this, I hope it is not an overly inappropriate request for this mailing list. But does anyone here in the States happen to have a stack of known-good 5.25 disks they don't want anymore? And more specifically, would it be possible for anyone to image such a disk with a copy of PC-DOS 2.0 or earlier? (and maybe on up to 3.3 or so) The later part is the service that would be more helpful to me. I finally have a drive for an old system that currently uses bubble memory cartridges to boot to PC-DOS 2.0, and so we'd like to see if (using these external drives) it could also boot to a (confirmed legit) image of IBM PC-DOS (and/or very early Microsoft DOS). Or, do we still need some kind of proprietary Sharp DOS image? (in which case, extra blank disk would be good, as I think there are tools on these bubble memory cartridges to initialize disks accordingly). An actual 160KB formatted PC DOS 1.0 would be fantastic to have on hand - but the 180KB slightly later image would be fine also (and then also to experiment how far "past 2.0" that this system might support, if at all). For shipping/delivery purposes, I'm in north Texas. When I got these drives, I then realized I no longer have any 5.25 floppies anymore - and even if I did, then I'm not quite sure how to get the images on there (did anyone ever make a "USB-to-5.25" drive? I have a couple 3.5 versions of those - maybe the power to motor the 5.25 is too much for USB? :D ). Thanks, SteveL

1 year, 8 months

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