17 Nov
2023
17 Nov
'23
10:15 a.m.
I'm working on some code where it would be handy to map the top of the I/O page along
with the bottom of physical memory. An obvious hack is to point the APR to the I/O page
address needed, then set the length so that the address modulo 2^22 also covers the low
memory range.
It seems from the architecture manual that this would work, and SIMH seems to do this
(since it adds VA and PAR then masks with a 22 bit mask). Would this work on real
hardware?
paul
17 Nov
17 Nov
11:24 a.m.
EK-DCJ11-UG-Pre DCJ11 Microprocessor User's Guide says it will abort [the first
processor guide on the shelf]
$4.5.2.2 (p4-7) Page Length Field ... "The block number of the virtual address is
compared against the page length field to detect length errors" ...
$4.7.1 MMR0 <14> Abort Page Length Error
$4.7.1.1.2 Abort -- Page Length
When descriptors exist as they do in the PAR / PDR pair it is usual to police them. A QL
at the manual indicates no exception behaviour for kernel mode or an override.
The behaviour may be model dependent, but if MMR0<14> is populated I should expect
an abort -- you could code the abort ISR for desired behaviour and return
It would be easier to build hardware without the checking, but harder to debug the
system.
Martin
-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Koning via cctalk [mailto:cctalk@classiccmp.org]
Sent: 17 November 2023 18:16
To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org
Cc: Paul Koning <paulkoning(a)comcast.net>
Subject: [cctalk] Address wrapping in PDP-11 MMU
I'm working on some code where it would be handy to map the top of the I/O page along
with the bottom of physical memory. An obvious hack is to point the APR to the I/O page
address needed, then set the length so that the address modulo 2^22 also covers the low
memory range.
It seems from the architecture manual that this would work, and SIMH seems to do this
(since it adds VA and PAR then masks with a 22 bit mask). Would this work on real
hardware?
paul
12:51 p.m.
Ok, but I think that's not what I meant.
Suppose I have APR6 = 177777 and length > 1. That means VA 140076 maps to physical
address 17777776, and VA 140100 maps to physical addres 20000000 which when masked with 22
bits would end up at 0. The offset within the page is <= the page length.
Meanwhile, I discovered that RSTS actually rejects attempts to map things this way. :-(
paul
On Nov 17, 2023, at 2:24 PM, Martin Bishop
<mjd.bishop(a)emeritus-solutions.com> wrote:
EK-DCJ11-UG-Pre DCJ11 Microprocessor User's Guide says it will abort [the first
processor guide on the shelf]
$4.5.2.2 (p4-7) Page Length Field ... "The block number of the virtual address is
compared against the page length field to detect length errors" ...
$4.7.1 MMR0 <14> Abort Page Length Error
$4.7.1.1.2 Abort -- Page Length
When descriptors exist as they do in the PAR / PDR pair it is usual to police them. A QL
at the manual indicates no exception behaviour for kernel mode or an override.
The behaviour may be model dependent, but if MMR0<14> is populated I should expect
an abort -- you could code the abort ISR for desired behaviour and return
It would be easier to build hardware without the checking, but harder to debug the
system.
Martin
-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Koning via cctalk [mailto:cctalk@classiccmp.org]
Sent: 17 November 2023 18:16
To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org
Cc: Paul Koning <paulkoning(a)comcast.net>
Subject: [cctalk] Address wrapping in PDP-11 MMU
I'm working on some code where it would be handy to map the top of the I/O page along
with the bottom of physical memory. An obvious hack is to point the APR to the I/O page
address needed, then set the length so that the address modulo 2^22 also covers the low
memory range.
It seems from the architecture manual that this would work, and SIMH seems to do this
(since it adds VA and PAR then masks with a 22 bit mask). Would this work on real
hardware?
paul
1:05 p.m.
OK, a faux descriptor would work round the documented checks which are on block number
rather than EA - there is a hardware overide
I'm delighted to hear that RSTS won't play along and set up for EA overflow
Martin
-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Koning [mailto:paulkoning@comcast.net]
Sent: 17 November 2023 20:52
To: Martin Bishop <mjd.bishop(a)emeritus-solutions.com>
Cc: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: [cctalk] Address wrapping in PDP-11 MMU
Ok, but I think that's not what I meant.
Suppose I have APR6 = 177777 and length > 1. That means VA 140076 maps to physical
address 17777776, and VA 140100 maps to physical addres 20000000 which when masked with 22
bits would end up at 0. The offset within the page is <= the page length.
Meanwhile, I discovered that RSTS actually rejects attempts to map things this way. :-(
paul
On Nov 17, 2023, at 2:24 PM, Martin Bishop
<mjd.bishop(a)emeritus-solutions.com> wrote:
EK-DCJ11-UG-Pre DCJ11 Microprocessor User's Guide says it will abort [the first
processor guide on the shelf]
$4.5.2.2 (p4-7) Page Length Field ... "The block number of the virtual address is
compared against the page length field to detect length errors" ...
$4.7.1 MMR0 <14> Abort Page Length Error
$4.7.1.1.2 Abort -- Page Length
When descriptors exist as they do in the PAR / PDR pair it is usual to police them. A QL
at the manual indicates no exception behaviour for kernel mode or an override.
The behaviour may be model dependent, but if MMR0<14> is populated I should expect
an abort -- you could code the abort ISR for desired behaviour and return
It would be easier to build hardware without the checking, but harder to debug the
system.
Martin
-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Koning via cctalk [mailto:cctalk@classiccmp.org]
Sent: 17 November 2023 18:16
To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org
Cc: Paul Koning <paulkoning(a)comcast.net>
Subject: [cctalk] Address wrapping in PDP-11 MMU
I'm working on some code where it would be handy to map the top of the I/O page along
with the bottom of physical memory. An obvious hack is to point the APR to the I/O page
address needed, then set the length so that the address modulo 2^22 also covers the low
memory range.
It seems from the architecture manual that this would work, and SIMH seems to do this
(since it adds VA and PAR then masks with a 22 bit mask). Would this work on real
hardware?
paul
184
days inactive
184
days old
3 comments
2 participants
participants (2)
-
Martin Bishop -
Paul Koning