- cctalk - classiccmp.org

by David Wise

I will never forget Windows ME. Bleargh! Dave I wrote PC BIOS code for Phoenix Technologies from 1996 to 2023, we had to suffer through every Windows release as old stuff broke and had to be fixed. ________________________________ From: Fred Cisin <cisin(a)xenosoft.com> Sent: Monday, July 29, 2024 6:05 PM To: David Wise <d44617665(a)hotmail.com> Cc: Murray McCullough via cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> Subject: Re: [cctalk] Re: MS-DOS Sorry, I can never remember which is which between Windows 2000 and Windows ME ("Millenium Edition") On Tue, 30 Jul 2024, David Wise wrote: > I think Windows 2000 is NT-based. > > Dave Wise > ________________________________ > From: Fred Cisin via cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> > Sent: Monday, July 29, 2024 5:21 PM > To: Murray McCullough via cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> > Cc: Fred Cisin <cisin(a)xenosoft.com> > Subject: [cctalk] Re: MS-DOS > > On Mon, 29 Jul 2024, Murray McCullough via cctalk wrote: >> I had not realized that 43 yrs. ago Microsoft purchased 86-DOS for $50,000 >> – US not Cdn. money. With this purchase the PC industry, IBM’s version >> thereof, began. I remember using it to do amazing things, moreso than what >> 8-bit machines could do! > > Ah, but there is so much more to the story, which deserves an entire > chapter in the history. > > More than you wanted to know? : (but even more details available if you really want them) > > Tim Paterson, of Seattle Computer Products was developing 8086 hardware, > but CP/M-86 was delayed. So, he wrote a temporary place-holder to use > instead of CP/M-86 until CP/M-86 became available. That was called > "QDOS", "Quick and Dirty Operating System". Later it became known as > "SCP-DOS" and/or "86-DOS" > > Then came the "culture clash" between IBM and Digital Research > (previously known as "Intergalctic digital Research"). That has been > documented elsewhere; some claim that there was not a culture clash, nor > an error. > > So, Microsoft (possibly Bill Gates personally) went down the street to > Seattle Computer Products, and bought an unlimited license for 86-DOS > "that we can sell to our [un-named] client" > > Tim Paterson, who later opened "Falcon Technologies" and Seattle Computer > Products both also retained licenes to be able to sell "the > operating system". Note that the version was not specified, as to whether > such license would include rights to sell updated versions; that error > (failure to specify whether future/derivative products were included) has > been repeated elsewhere (cf. Apple/Microsoft) > > Microsoft also hired Tim Paterson to maintain and update "MS-DOS". > > Microsoft sold a license to IBM, where it became PC-DOS. > And, it was available through Lifeboat as "86-DOS" > > In August 1981, when the PC (5150) was released, IBM started selling > PC-DOS. But digital Research was not happy with IBM selling a copy of > their operating system. > In those days, selling a copy was legal, if the internal code was not > copied. (hence the development of "clean-room reverse engineering") > It wasn't until the Lotus/Paperback Software (Adam Osborne) > lawsuit that "look and feel" became copyrightable. > > So, IBM agreed to also sell CP/M-86 IN ADDITION to selling PC-DOS. > . . . and sold UCSD P-System. > > But CP/M-86 was STILL not ready, so everybody bought PC-DOS, many of whom > planned to switch to CP/M-86 when it became available. > But, when CP/M-86 was finally ready, the price was $240 vs $40 for PC-DOS. > There are arguments about whether IBM or Digital Research set that price. > Although, if that price was IBM's idea, then why did Digital Research > charge $240 for copies sold through other sources (such as Lifeboat)? > > > Initially MS-DOS and PC-DOS differed only in name and trivial items, such > as "IO.SYS" and "MSDOS.SYS" being renamed "IBMBIO.COM" and "IBMDOS.COM" > When changes were made, Microsoft's and IBM's version numbers were > separated. > Thus 1.00 was the same for both > IBM released PC-DOS 1.10, and Microsoft released MS-DOS 1.25 > 2.00 was the same for both > 2.10 VS 2.11 (IBM needed trivial changes to 2.00 to deal with the > excessively slow Qumetrak 142 disk drives in the PC-Junior and "portable" > 3.00 was the same > 3.10, adding network support and the "network redirector for CD-ROMs > 3.20 VS 3.21, adding "720K" 3.5" drive support > 3.30 VS 3.31, BUT 3.31 was the first to support larger than 32Mebibyte drives! > 4.00 and 4.01 IBM/Microsoft did not provide third party vendors enough > advanced warning, so Norton Utilities, etc. did not work on 4.00 (NOT > 4.00 did not work with Norton Utilities!) > 5.00 > In 6.00 each company bundled a whole bunch of third party stuff (such as > disk compression) and each got them from different sources. > When Microsoft's disk compression was blamed for serious problems caused > by SMARTDRV, Microsoft released 6.20 (repaired and reliability improved > from 6.00). > Then 6.21 and 6.22 as a result of Microsoft's legal case with Stac > Electronics. > > > Please note that MS-DOS/PC-DOS ALWAYS had a version number, a period, and > then a TWO DIGIT DECIMAL sub-version number. THAT is what is stored > internally. Thus, 1.10 is stored as ONE.TEN (01h.0Ah), 3.31 is actually > THREE.Thirty-ONE (03h.1Fh), etc. > If there had ever actually been a "1.1" or "3.2", those would have been > 01h.01h (1.01) and 03h.02h (3.02), etc. > "1.1" was NOT the same as "1.10", nor "3.2" the same as "3.20", otherwise > VERY minor changes would be confused with serious changes, as happened > when some people called 4.01 "four point one". > > > Later still, Seattle Computer Products was on the rocks. There was some > speculation that AT&T might buy it, to get the DOS license (and not have > to pay royalties per copy!). After some legal animosity, Microsoft did > the right and smart thing, and bought Seattle Computer Products, thus > closing that vulnerability. > > Windows originally started as an add-on command processor and user > interface on top of DOS. Windows95 made that invisibly seamless, so the > user never saw a DOS prompt without explicitly asking for it. Windows 95 > still contained DOS (7.00), but the user never saw it. > > > Gordon Letwin at Microsoft developed OS/2. But Microsoft sold it off to > IBM, and it became known as an IBM product. > Microsoft used some key technology from it in developing WindowsNT. > Within Microsoft's offerings, NT competed with non-NT windows, such as > Windows95, Windows98, and Windows2000. > Windows[NT] Vista, XP, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11 continued, and the old Windows was > "deprecated'. > > > Naming a version after the year it is released is great for sales in the > first year, and a serious liability in subsequent years, unless there is > actually going to be a new version every year (as automobiles do) > > -- > Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin(a)xenosoft.com

1 year, 8 months

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Re: MS-DOS (fwd)

by Fred Cisin

Did not show up on the list, so I am forwarding another copy; sorry if there are duplicates On Mon, 29 Jul 2024, Murray McCullough via cctalk wrote: > I had not realized that 43 yrs. ago Microsoft purchased 86-DOS for $50,000 > US not Cdn. money. With this purchase the PC industry, IBM's version > thereof, began. I remember using it to do amazing things, moreso than what > 8-bit machines could do! There are conflicting reports that list that price as $25,000, $50,000, or $75,000, although there is suppoirt for each for example: https://www.historyofinformation.com/detail.php?id=99 "for $50,000 or $75,000, depending on how the cost is calculated." The price that IBM paid Microsoft is stated variously as $25,000, $50,000, to $430,000 Great detail, but a few items are arguable: https://www.pcmag.com/news/the-rise-of-dos-how-microsoft-got-the-ibm-pc-os-… "By most accounts, Nishi was the one most strongly in favor of Microsoft getting into the operating system world. Allen said in his autobiography Idea Man that Gates was less enthusiastic. Allen called Seattle Computer Products owner Rod Brock and licensed QDOS for $10,000 plus a royalty of $15,000 for every company that licensed the software." "In Big Blues: The Unmaking of IBM, Sams is quoted as saying Gates told him about QDOS and offered it to IBM. "The question was: Do you want to buy it or do you want me to buy it?" Sams said. Since IBM had already had decided to go with an open architecture, the company wanted Microsoft to purchase QDOS. Besides, Sams said, "If we'd bought the software, we'd have just screwed it up." "According to Allen, under the contract signed that November, IBM agreed to pay Microsoft a total of $430,000, including $45,000 for what would end up being called DOS, $310,000 for the various 16-bit languages, and $75,000 for "adaptions, testing and consultation." In contrast, the TV "Pirates of the Valley" made the false and absurd claim that bill Gates cold-called IBM to convince them to get an operating system! -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin(a)xenosoft.com

1 year, 8 months

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Norton Utilities on 5.25" floppies

by Van Snyder

I have Norton Utilities on 5.25" floppies. I don't have a drive so I don't know whether they're readable. They're yours if you send me a PDF of a shipping label for 8"x10"x1" 8oz. Van Snyder 2229 Shields Street La Crescenta, CA 91214 van.snyder(a)sbcglobal.net

1 year, 8 months

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DEC RM03 / CDC 9762

by Christian Corti

Hello all, we now have a RM03 drive, but are missing all the cables and the RH11 backplane, though I have the cards. Since the drive itself is a CDC 9762 I was wondering if I could ignore the Massbus adapter in the drive cabinet and use the CDC as a "normal" SMD drive (at least it uses the standard 60+26 pin cables). There are no service manuals/schematics of the drive itself, so I can't look there. And all I could find on the net were discussions of using the Massbus adapter for normal SMD drives but in my case, I don't want Massbus at all. Christian

1 year, 8 months

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Pick system in Manitoba looking for a new home

by Liam Proven

Would anyone like to rescue a vintage Pick minicomputer in Manitoba, Canada? https://discuss.systems/@ahelwer/112836345012817998 « A wide ask here so please boost: my grandfather is trying to get rid of an old business computer, and I was wondering whether any vintage computer people might want it. It was purchased for $50k from The Ultimate Corporation in the early 80s. This ran the Pick operating system, and my best guess is the hardware was originally manufactured by GE or Honeywell. It's about the size of a half-rack and currently lives in Brandon, Manitoba, Canada. It has sat covered in plastic in a chemical warehouse for the past 35 years. Where do people usually post stuff like this other than here? Thanks! » -- Liam Proven - Profile: https://about.me/liamproven Email: lproven(a)cix.co.uk - Google Mail/Hangouts/Plus: lproven(a)gmail.com Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven - Skype/LinkedIn: liamproven IoM: +44 7624 227612 ~ UK: +44 7939-087884 ČR (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053

1 year, 8 months

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Re: DEC RM03 / CDC 9762

by Evan Linwood

"So... my recommendation is to look over schematics for differences. I think there are some." I have some RM03's and a 9762, and this matches my understanding of these drives also, in other words one or more of the cards in the RM drive itself were modified, meaning that the MASSBUS interface doesn't connect to the drive over a standard SMD interface. These cards (in the drives) are not very large or complex, I'm guessing it should be possible to identify the differences. Also please don't discard the MASSBUS adapters - they're probably of interest to the community!

1 year, 8 months

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Relay computers

by Tom Hunter

Recently people repeatedly mentioned relay computers. There is a very nice 8-bit relay computer implementation by Joe Allen. The computer looks and feels like the microprocessor trainer boards of the 70s. The CPU is implemented in 83 relays. Memory, front panel interface and serial port are implemented in a MicroChip PIC and a few ICs. This is a fully functional computer with a well thought out instruction set. Here is a link to a YouTube video showing the relay computer in operation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1hJoalcK68 Here is the SourceForge project page: http://relaysbc.sourceforge.net/ Joe used to sell the bare PCBs with programmed MicroChip PIC on Tindie and Ebay, but it seems he no longer has any PCBs left. Here is the Tindie link: https://www.tindie.com/products/jhallen/single-board-relay-computer/ Enjoy! Tom

1 year, 8 months

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WTB: Signetics 2519 .. (Apple I components)

by Igor

Hi all! Me and my buddy are building an Apple I replica, for now successfully. Recently we have tested the video signal :) However, we are having big problems (as you can imagine) with finding Signetics 2519 chips. I know many ordered them in bulk, so I would be thankful for any help (we have US address) or information. As for the other components, the 74160, 7450 and DS0025C are the blockers at this moment. These we would probably find much easier (already did actually, just looking to maybe get them from the same source). Thanks in advance, Igor

1 year, 8 months

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WTB: Shugart SA-4008 Hard Drive

by Jonathan Chapman

As above. Looking for a 14" SA-4008 for testing with the Ohio Scientific CD-23 disk system. We're at the point with it that we can get known good data off (we see FORTH source in it) but can't boot and get errors off some of the sectors/tracks. I'd like to be able to try and initialize it, but the SA-4008 I have contains useful information that we don't want to destroy! Thanks, Jonathan

1 year, 8 months

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Re: the 1968 how to build a working digital computer

by Marvin Johnston

One idea I've had for a number of years now is to use a PLC to simulate a relay computer. Seems like it would be a fun project. While I have the PLC, the time and motivation to do it is currently escaping me. The idea came as I was looking at the Simon computer construction project from one of the electronics magazines. Marvin

1 year, 8 months

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Re: Old vintage computing magazine/newsletters

by brad

Yes I find them useful also. But they are almost all archived on archive.org.. so I wondered how much value an actual paper copy would have. I thought Peoples Computer Company had a decent circulation (like in the tens of thousands) and could be expected to turn up from time to time. Have to pay more attention.Sent from my Galaxy -------- Original message --------From: Bill Degnan via cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> Date: 2024-07-16 3:38 p.m. (GMT-08:00) To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> Cc: Bill Degnan <billdegnan(a)gmail.com> Subject: [cctalk] Re: Old vintage computing magazine/newsletters Personally I find them invaluable for research.BillOn Tue, Jul 16, 2024, 5:53 PM Brad H via cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>wrote:> Just a 'survey' sort of question - how much value do you guys put in> vintage> copies of old newsletters, magazines, etc. I'm talking mid-1970s, like> People's Computer Company, etc. Someone has been selling them one at a> time> on ebay and they routinely go for $125+ each! Was PCC fairly low> circulation? I have no idea how rare these things are - if I should just> dive in to have my memento or wait. Looking at auction history it seems to> be the same group of 2 or 3 bidders going nuts over them.>>>> One newsletter I would love to find an original copy of is Micro-8.. but I> think the circulation on that was just a hundred or so, so probably> unlikely. It has some blurbs from Grant Runyan in there, who built my TVT> and Mark-8.>>>> But yeah, I just wondered if you guys think generally this stuff *should&> be> considered valuable - given most/all is archived online.>>>> Brad>>

1 year, 8 months

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Auction houses vs ebay

by brad

Question going back to the estate planning subject...do auction houses tend to receive higher bids than ebay for vintage computer gear? Are they any better in terms of finding the right buyers?One day I might want to sell my Mark-8 and TVT, not immediately though. But more and more am thinking of getting out before I'm gotten out.BradSent from my Galaxy

1 year, 8 months

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Fwd: Civility; Was Re: Re: LCM auction pre-notice

by Doc Shipley

Sellam, Stay the FUCK off my private email. That crosses the line and you know it. -------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: Re: [cctalk] Civility; Was Re: Re: LCM auction pre-notice Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2024 11:46:54 -0700 From: Sellam Abraham <sellam.ismail(a)gmail.com> To: Doc Shipley <doc(a)vaxen.net> On Mon, Jul 15, 2024 at 10:19 AM Doc Shipley via cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org <mailto:cctalk@classiccmp.org>> wrote: On 7/15/24 12:12, Sellam Abraham via cctalk wrote: > The only thing criminal here is Paul Allen's handling of LCM. > With all due respect, man, your noise:signal ratio is getting really awful. Do you ever look at what you've typed and ask yourself if it's *useful*? The last I looked this mailing list was meant to be an exchange of information and a source of support, not a Reddit clone. Useful or not, it needs to be stated. I stand by the comment. Thanks for your feedback. Sellam

1 year, 8 months

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Re: NeXT computer system...

by Tom Stepleton

On Tue, Jul 16, 2024 at 18:13 PM Joshua Rice <rice43(a)btinternet.com> wrote: > I imagine it's quite difficult. Maybe not "functional Twiggy drive" > difficult, but probably "unmolested 128k Macintosh" difficult. > > It of course depends on who you know, and who you ask. Undoubtedly > there's a guy out there with a stack of them in a shed somewhere, but > getting hold of him is a different matter entirely. > I think this person exists and is relatively easy to contact: it's Rob Blessin of Black Hole Inc (https://next.blackholeinc.com/). If he doesn't have a 68030 board, ask around on the NeXT forums at https://www.nextcomputers.org/forums/ (I think these are also related to Rob in some way). In my experience the SMT capacitors pose a much greater threat to NeXT PCBs than the battery: these are classic early 90s caps that must be assumed to be leaking already. Replace them. Same goes for several of the through-hole caps in the N4000-series mono displays (ELNA "Long Life" my foot --- you'll find they come out moist and fishy-smelling). (Plus there are SMT caps in the display's digital board too.) As for the bright yellow Panasonic BR-2/3A lithium primary cell battery: I issue a challenge to this community. I've never seen one leak. Nobody I've asked has ever seen one leak. Rob Blessin who has handled thousands of NeXT boards has never seen one leak. It's a bit maddening since batteries are supposed to leak eventually and the Panasonics just seem like they... don't. In fact, they often still hold a good voltage, and I'll confess here: *I'm still running some of the 30-year-old originals in my NeXTs!* The replacements I got from DigiKey a few years back are sitting in my component stores gathering dust, just waiting. The challenge: have *you* ever seen a leaky Panasonic BR-2/3A lithium primary cell battery? Surely their day will come someday --- we'll see them start to go. But for now it sure feels like we're in the long, low bottom of a very big bathtub-shaped curve. --Tom > Josh Rice > > On 16/07/2024 17:24, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote: > > how hard is it to track down a replacement NeXT cube motherboard? > > Bill > > > > On Tue, Jul 16, 2024 at 11:38 AM John Robertson via cctalk < > > cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > >> On 2024/07/16 6:28 a.m., Paul Koning wrote: > >>>> On Jul 16, 2024, at 9:05 AM, John Robertson via cctalk< > >> cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > >>>> I'm just starting to clean up a NeXT system that a friend has had in > >> storage for decades... > >>>> I assume the thing has a battery somewhere - I just hope it isn't > >> Ni-Cad! > >>> At that age it might well be. So what? I think they are still > >> available. Or you can replace it by a non-rechargeable battery. That's > >> what I did with the ToD clock battery in my Pro; a lithium coin cell > with a > >> series diode to prevent "charging" is not an ideal solution but > adequate, > >> and it would be better if I used a Schottky diode rather than a plain Si > >> rectifier diode I happened to have lying around. > >>> paul > >> Battery leakage was the issue - having dealt with a great many logic > >> boards damaged or destroyed by leaking Ni-Cad batteries. > >> > >> I've since seen a photo of the inside of the NeXT and it looks like they > >> used a plug in Lithium battery, so that risk is no longer of much > >> concern to me. > >> > >> John :-#)# > >> >

1 year, 8 months

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Scientific Subroutine Package

by Rob Kolstad

Does anyone have access to compile-able files for IBM's Scientific Subroutine Package? 360/370, 1130 -- anything will do. I have a copy of 360A_CM-03X_SSP.tap and have even converted it away from EBCDIC. I have not, however, properly de-blocked it yet and figgered I'd ask if someone already has ready-to-go files. FORTRAN would of course be the origin; any language will do, however. RK

1 year, 8 months

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Old vintage computing magazine/newsletters

by brad＠techtimetraveller.com

Just a 'survey' sort of question - how much value do you guys put in vintage copies of old newsletters, magazines, etc. I'm talking mid-1970s, like People's Computer Company, etc. Someone has been selling them one at a time on ebay and they routinely go for $125+ each! Was PCC fairly low circulation? I have no idea how rare these things are - if I should just dive in to have my memento or wait. Looking at auction history it seems to be the same group of 2 or 3 bidders going nuts over them. One newsletter I would love to find an original copy of is Micro-8.. but I think the circulation on that was just a hundred or so, so probably unlikely. It has some blurbs from Grant Runyan in there, who built my TVT and Mark-8. But yeah, I just wondered if you guys think generally this stuff *should& be considered valuable - given most/all is archived online. Brad

1 year, 8 months

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CRDS PDP-11/23 For Sale

by Henry Bent

Hi alll, I have a Charles River Data Systems MF211E, a branded PDP-11/23 that is looking for a new home. Right now it's running RT-11 but I've also run 2.9BSD on it. I got it with the intent to run Ultrix-11 but due to the non-standard disk controller I could never get that working. Everything was in fully functioning condition when it was powered down a couple of months ago. It has: M8186, a KDF-11A Clearpoint Q-RAM 22, a 1MB memory board FC-202, an RXV21 clone, connected to Shugart SA800s M7504, a DEQNA-M ethernet controller Dilog DQ614, emulating 4 RL02 drives, connected to a 52MB MFM drive in a separate enclosure H-11-5, a Heathkit serial card M9400-YE, a REV11-E terminator I believe it's an H9278 backplane but I'm not 100% certain about that I'm willing to entertain reasonable offers. It is currently located in NE Ohio, and due to age and the substantial weight I will not ship unless you want to pay to have full-service freight show up at my door. Please contact me off-list if you are interested. Thanks! -Henry

1 year, 8 months

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QED 993

by Paul Anderson

I'm trying to do some organizing and came across a QED 993. Anyone have an interest in it? Thanks, Paul

1 year, 8 months

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Re: Old vintage computing magazine/newsletters

by brad

Yeah. I notice even Wikipedia has been really begging lately. I'm amazed they've all lasted as long as they have.That would really suck if archive went away. So useful.Sent from my Galaxy -------- Original message --------From: Sellam Abraham via cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> Date: 2024-07-16 7:50 p.m. (GMT-08:00) To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> Cc: Sellam Abraham <sellam.ismail(a)gmail.com> Subject: [cctalk] Re: Old vintage computing magazine/newsletters BTW, I wouldn't be depending on Internet Archive. Not that it's going awayanytime soon, but it may some day not be there.Like LCM.Sellam

1 year, 8 months

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Neurodata Catwriter

by Liam Proven

This seems to be a Belgian computer that draws a total blank on Google. https://www.facebook.com/groups/vintagecomputerclub/posts/8562290167137607/ Anyone ever heard of it? -- Liam Proven ~ Profile: https://about.me/liamproven Email: lproven(a)cix.co.uk ~ gMail/gTalk/FB: lproven(a)gmail.com Twitter/LinkedIn: lproven ~ Skype: liamproven IoM: (+44) 7624 277612: UK: (+44) 7939-087884 Czech [+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal]: (+420) 702-829-053

1 year, 8 months

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LCM auction pre-notice

by Brent Hilpert

Just received a message from a friend mentioning stuff from the LCM is to be in a Christie’s auction in Aug-Sep. Online auction, viewing in Seattle by appointment. https://www.christies.com/auction/firsts-the-history-of-computing-from-the-… <https://www.christies.com/auction/firsts-the-history-of-computing-from-the-…> This appears to be just an upcoming auction advisory, there’s very little info. "CDC-5000 and Cray 2 will be offered alongside their miniaturized predecessors in the Altair 8800 and Apple-1" CDC-5000 ? predecessors ?

1 year, 8 months

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Re: Ebay past pricing

by Marvin Johnston

Message: 21 Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2024 06:55:09 -0700 From: Sellam Abraham<sellam.ismail(a)gmail.com> Subject: [cctalk] Re: Ebay past pricing To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <CAHJBWnQg8S3iJr+zofjcxhDkCX3qG-5oeXOtvrKPVpVEthROcg(a)mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" I think we are talking apples and oranges. I use Worthpoint to find pricing for uncommon (I hate the misuse of the word "rare) items that don't show up in Ebay searches. So far, the only limitation I've found with Wortphoint is their lack of shipping costs which anyone who sells on Ebay knows is part of the Ebay price. That is not a serious enough reason for me not to use Worthpoint. A recent example of Ebay failures would be the pricing on Intel MDS system parts. Another example is Lobo Drives/System computers. Or the Lobo HD/floppy disk box. Do I need to go on? Marvin > On Sun, Jul 14, 2024, 11:49 PM Marvin Johnston via cctalk < > cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > > My opinion, it is the best I've seen for looking up past ebay sales. > > Marvin I subscribed to Worthpoint for a couple months and found it kind of worthless (see what I did there). Yes, it let's you go back further than eBay's Terapeak search (which is available free to all eBay sellers and goes back through two years worth of listings) but I found the data to be unreliable, incomplete, and it does not store enough details from the original listing for my purposes. I don't believe it differentiates between listings and actual sold items. In one instance I found one of my own listings, and I forgot what was wrong about it, but it had entirely wrong information. I don't believe it's at all worth $30/month. I'd maybe pay that for a years worth of access. Maybe. Sellam

1 year, 8 months

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Ebay past pricing

by Marvin Johnston

I would guess most people here are aware of how to use ebay to suggest (mostly inflated) pricing. In the past, I have used Hammertap and Terapeak, but they both seem to have gone away. That said, I finally bit the bullet and joined Worthpoint. So far it is the best I have used and at this point highly recommend it . The format is similar to Ebay BUT... it goes back in time much farther than anything else I've used. The farthest back I've seen so far is 2016. It even shows the one Intel MDS system Scott (?) posted about that sold for $500 about 1 year ago in July 2023. The pricing is comparable with the other services I've used at about $30/month for the basic searching ability (all I am interested in.). IMNSHO, it is well worth it as in addition to past pricing, it also goes back farther than anything I've used previously. My opinion, it is the best I've seen for looking up past ebay sales. Marvin

1 year, 8 months

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VCF Midwest 19 Table Registration Opening 7/14

by Jason T

Table registration for VCFMW 19 will open tomorrow (7/14) at 15:41 CDT! See our announcement here: https://t.co/yze7fmlCAH And our table info page here: https://vcfmw.org/tables.html <https://t.co/jYAY0KlknM>

1 year, 8 months

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A brief history of Cray

by Ali

Might be of interest to some on this list. A 30 minute video detailing the start of Cray computing from the Rand days all the way to its final resting place in HP.https://youtu.be/SOQ6F7HMfSc?si=YTGTcexPZOoNhxHZ

1 year, 8 months

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Value of Intel MDS System

by Marvin Johnston

In keeping with a previous discussion about reducing a collection size, I have an intel MDS system I am kind of looking to sell. This system consists of the processor box, dual floppy drives, two keyboards (one missing a keycap), and monitor. Unfortunately, no manuals or software came with it when I got it some 30 or so years ago. Also I have never powered it up and won't since it has been sitting for a long time and will need a careful checkout to make sure it is safe to power up. I do plan on attending VCFMW in early September, and can bring it with me (and Sellam) for pickup at the show. My route will be I5 to I80 from California so it might be possible for the buyer to make arrangements with us to transfer the unit to the buyer along the way. Generally speaking, there won't be much time along the way since I generally drive 24/7 except for short stops for gas and rest as needed Long winded way of asking here has anyone a clear idea of what to charge. It has been sitting in my garage since I acquired it. Marvin

1 year, 8 months

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Data general MicroNOVA

by jake utley

I was lucky enough to pick up three MicroNOVA cards and one was a mN602 CPU card. I would love to rebuild the system it came from which was a MP/100 or MP/200 from my research since the mN602 is a nova 4 instruction set chip so is pretty powerful. Unfortunately I only have the CPU card a line printer controller and a mystery card I haven’t yet identified. I’m looking for these parts to help with this project. MicroNOVA MP/100 or MP/200 chassis and backplane 4220 paper tape controller 4337 video keyboard interface or 4207-S Async card. Disk controller MicroNOVA memory Would anyone know of someone who would have some of these parts as I think this would make an interesting system configuration.

1 year, 9 months

2
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Revocable Living Trust for Computer Collectors

by Sellam Abraham

I think this is an appropriate time for this announcement. Over the many years I've been collecting, there have been more than several instances of a collector dying and their collection effectively being cast to the wind because their surviving spouse or family members have no idea what to do with their computer collection. We are all very aware of this unfortunate phenomenon. To that end, I've been developing a Revocable Living Trust (RLT) for computer collectors. I've been working on this off and on for the past many months, and though it isn't quite ready yet, this is a good opportunity to announce my plans. The advantages of a RLT are many for the computer collector, including simplicity, and one's continued access to and enjoyment of their collections while they are alive. It's a good start, but not a complete solution, as the effectiveness of the RLT depends on the trustees one has chosen to carry out their wishes once they've departed the mortal coil. That's where what I'm developing comes into play: a multi-modal trustee services corporation which one can name as (at least one of) their trustee(s), which in the event of one's demise will immediately launch into action to protect the trust assets (the computer collection) and distribute it as per the trust indenture. And so much more. The trust indenture itself will be cheap (a nominal $49 is my target price) but I have yet to work out the execution and pricing for all the other services that will be offered, which will include actually coming out to the collection site to secure the collection and handle or assist in its distribution. This message is intended to be a feeler to gauge interest in the product. To that end, if this is of interest to you, please contact me privately and let me know. I can actually set you up with the trust documents right away, as those are basically done at this point, which you can execute and get notarized, etc. to at least have that protection in place. The establishment of the trustee services corporation described above will take a bit more time. If I didn't myself fall ill within the last 9 months (heart attack, nearly died, subsequent heart surgery) I would have already had this ready to go. The irony of this all has not at all escaped me. Fortunately, my collection is now covered for when it's my time to go. How about you? Sellam

1 year, 9 months

45
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Door / AC power key for various Sun equipment

by Dennis Boone

For irrelevant reasons, I noticed the other day that the parts-for-power-plants mafia and ebay sellers are all asking $45 - $120 for a Sun 330-2014 key. WTH. If you don't care about the purple plastic on one end, I'm pretty sure that you can make these thusly: Ilco 1043J aka IL11, cut 34244 b-t Illinois/TImberline disc, DSD-44 The Sun handbook says these systems use this key: PRODUCT AC POWER KEY POWER INTERLOCK KEY DOOR KEY E3000/E3500 330-2014 No Interlock 330-2014 E4x00/E5x00/E6x00 330-2014 No Interlock No Key Sun Fire V480/V880/V490/V890 330-2014 No Interlock 330-2014 Sun Fire 3800/48x0/6800 330-2014 No Interlock 330-2014 Sun Fire E4900/E6900 330-2014 No Interlock 330-2014 56" and 68" Rack 330-2014 No Interlock No Key Sun Fire Cabinet 330-2014 No Interlock 330-2014 Hopefully this saves someone some bucks. De

1 year, 9 months

1
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5.25" Norton Utilties disks

by Van Snyder

I found a stack of 5.25" Norton Utilities disks in my basement. I haven't had a 5.25" drive for years, so I don't know whether they're readable. If you want to try them, send me a PDF for a shipping label for an 8x10x1 9oz envelope.

1 year, 9 months

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wanted: HP-UX 11i v1 (11.11) install media or images

by Eric Smith

I have a new-in-box (but twenty-year-old) HP C8000 workstation (HP Precision Architecture). The box contains an HP-UX license certificate, entitling me to copy and install HP-UX 11i v1 (11.11) TCOE (Technical Computing Operating Environment) for use on the machine. Unfortunately I don't have 11i v1 install media. Unfortunately the license entitlement is not sufficient to be able to get a copy from HPE, because they no longer support HP-UX 11i v1 (11.11), nor the C8000 workstation, and even when they did, you had to have a subscription to get the support and buy media or download images. I'm hoping that someone here might have such media, and be willing to sell me a media set, or copies or ISO/UDF images. (They have to be "real" ripped images, not a rebuild using typical burner software that builds a new ISO/UDF image out of gathered files.) Ideally, the disks I want are AFAIK the final 11i v1 disks:: p/n B6821-10057 HP-UX 11i TCOE DVD from December 2006 p/n B6845-10052 HP-UX 11i MTOE DVD from December 2006 (MTOE is a subset of TCOE) p/n 5014-1459 HP-UX 11i Applications DVD from September 2009 p/n B3921-10061 HP-UX 11i Instant Invo CD from September 2009 p/n 5013-8893 HP-UX 11i Support Plus from December 2008 p/n DV500-10026 HP-UX 11i IUX DVD from 2005 or 2006 However, I can't be that picky. I'd settle for ANY edition of those titles, earlier or later, or the equivalent CD sets instead of the DVDs, as long as it is HP-UL 11i, and not 11.00, 11i v2, or 11i v3. As far as I've been able to determine, the C8000 can run any release of 11i v1, but can't run 10.20 or 11.00. It _might_ be able to run 11i v2 or v3 without graphics support, but I'd really like the graphics to work. If anyone can help me out, please get in touch! Thank you! This is ultimately part of a project to come up with a replacement processing system for the HP 16700 family logic analyzers, which are based on a 150 MHz PA-7300LC. Ultimately I'm hoping to control the logic analayzer acquisition modules from a non-PA-RISC processor (e.g., x86), but I want to tackle this in smaller steps, like making the software run on a newer PA-RISC processor (the PA-8900 in the C8000). It's much easier to start with a processor that at least has the same architecture, rather than having to jump immediately into binary translation. Not to mention that it would just be nice to have the C8000 working at all. I have the p/n 5990-7398 Dcoumentation Library CD for HP Workstation C8000 from May 2004, and the p/n 5991-5986 HP9000 Offline Diagnostics Environment PA0712 from December 2007, if anyone needs copies of those. (The Offline Diagnostics Environment disc says "Valid license required". Best regards, Eric

1 year, 9 months

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SMECC museum status

by John Herron

While we're on the topic of the fate of collections and museums, does anyone know if SMECC (Southwest Museum of Engineering, Communications and Computation) is ok? I'm unaware if there was staff outside of Ed Sharpe (who respectfully rests in piece).

1 year, 9 months

5
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Seattle’s Living Computers Museum logs off for good as Paul Allen estate will auction vintage items

by Christian Liendo

https://www.geekwire.com/2024/seattles-living-computers-museum-logs-off-for… Living Computers Museum + Labs, the Seattle institution created by the late Microsoft co-founder Paul Allen as a hands-on showcase for rare computing technology and interactive displays, will not reopen, more than four years after closing just ahead of the pandemic. Allen’s estate, which has been managing and winding down his vast array of holdings since his death in 2018, confirmed to GeekWire that the 12-year-old museum is closed for good. The estate also announced Tuesday that some key pieces from Allen’s personal collection of computer artifacts, displayed over the years at Living Computers, will be auctioned by Christie’s as part of a broader sale of various Allen items later this year.

1 year, 9 months

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TexElec Foam and Foil" Capacitive Pads for KeyTronic & BTC Keyboard Repair

by Marvin Johnston

O n t he recommendation of a couple list members, I ordered five of their Foam and Foil" Capacitive Pads for KeyTronic & BTC Keyboard Repair. I thought the price was very reasonable for about 100 pads for each of the five bags plus shipping. Keyboard disassembly was rather tedious, but not particularly difficult. My guess is about a day to complete the job on a Vector 3 keyboard. An Installation video on Youtube is available... search for "How to fix a Keytronic foam and foil keyboard" and you should fnd it. To me, it helped out immensely covering foam pad removal and reassembly. arrival took about three weeks. Hopefully see everyone in September. Marvin

1 year, 9 months

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Fwd: [GreenKeys] FW: [cca] Ed Sharpe, KF7RWW, SK

by Eric Moore

FYI, RIP Ed ---------- Forwarded message --------- From: W2HX <w2hx(a)w2hx.com> Date: Sat, Jun 15, 2024, 1:22 PM Subject: [GreenKeys] FW: [cca] Ed Sharpe, KF7RWW, SK To: Greenkeys <greenkeys(a)mailman.qth.net> FYI 73 Eugene W2HX *From:* cca(a)groups.io <cca(a)groups.io> *On Behalf Of *Scott Johnson via groups.io *Sent:* Friday, June 14, 2024 6:52 PM *To:* cca(a)groups.io *Subject:* [cca] Ed Sharpe, KF7RWW, SK All- With sadness, I must report that Ed Sharpe, KF7RWW, passed away 1 June 2024. He was 72. Ed was a consummate archivist, and had a large Collins collection, which he housed in a Historic house in Glendale , AZ, known as the Coury House. This was the home of SMECC, the Southwest Museum of Engineering, Communications, and Computing. Ed was a USAF veteran, a ground radio repairman stationed at Luke AFB in the early seventies. Ed haunted many of the vintage and military radio sites and garnered much of his collection through these channels. His rampant enthusiasm for technology of any kind will be missed! www.smecc.org https://www.dignitymemorial.com/obituaries/glendale-az/edward-sharpe-118465… Scott Johnson W7SVJ _._,_._,_ ------------------------------ Groups.io Links: You receive all messages sent to this group. View/Reply Online (#11560) <https://groups.io/g/cca/message/11560> | Reply To Sender <scottjohnson1@cox.net?subject=Private:%20Re:%20%5Bcca%5D%20Ed%20Sharpe%2C%20KF7RWW%2C%20SK> | Reply To Group <cca@groups.io?subject=Re:%20%5Bcca%5D%20Ed%20Sharpe%2C%20KF7RWW%2C%20SK> | Mute This Topic <https://groups.io/mt/106679887/91829> | New Topic <https://groups.io/g/cca/post> Your Subscription <https://groups.io/g/cca/editsub/91829> | Contact Group Owner <cca+owner(a)groups.io> | Unsubscribe <https://groups.io/g/cca/unsub> [ w2hx(a)w2hx.com] _._,_._,_ ______________________________________________________________ GreenKeys mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:GreenKeys@mailman.qth.net >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: https://teletype.net/gksearch >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/ >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to mooreericnyc(a)gmail.com

1 year, 9 months

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Intel 8086 - 46 yrs. ago

by Murray McCullough

Intel introduced to the world the x86 processor: the CISC technology still with us. So what has changed other than speed and upward development? Happy computing, Murray 🙂

1 year, 9 months

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Heurikon HK68/M10 (Multibus) information?

by Chris Hanson

Does anyone have any manuals or other information on the Heurikon HK68/M10? Or the Hbug ROMs for it? The HK68/M10 is a Multibus 68010 board with serial, SCSI, parallel, timers, 1MB onboard RAM, 2- or 4-channel DMA, and an optional 68451 MMU. It's similar but not identical to the HK68/V10 (the VMEbus version) and so far I haven't been able to find much that would make one usable. I'm particularly interested in: An Hbug ROM. Pinouts for the top edge connectors, which provide the serial ports, the SCSI port, and the parallel port. Jumpering/strapping and other configuration information. And of course it'd be incredible to find the UniPlus+ distribution for it, but I'm not holding out much hope for that. I already know what's on Bitsavers—such as the brochure—and I've already looked at the MAME HK68/V10 emulation, so no need to point those out. -- Chris

1 year, 9 months

2
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VCF Swap Meet this Saturday

by Mike Loewen

Saturday, June 22 from 8:00 - 2:00 across from the Infoage campus in NJ. https://vcfed.org/vcf-swap-meet/ Mike Loewen mloewen(a)cpumagic.scol.pa.us Old Technology http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/

1 year, 9 months

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L. Conway

by Murray McCullough

Today I came across an obituary of Lynn Conway, computer pioneer in the field of VLSI(along with Carver Mead) and also in one called dynamic instruction scheduling(used in supercomputing world). More to the point Conway was transgender and suffered for this, an almost forgotten pioneer in the microcomputing and supercomputing fields. Also, as a researcher at IBM and Xerox Parc where she contributed to the first years of microcomputing, the GUI and Ethernet protocol development. Eventually the IEEE recognized her contributions as did IBM - better late than never! Murray 🙂

1 year, 9 months

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VCF Southwest 2024 a summary of activity

by Steve Lewis

Have some notes on my experience at VCF SW over last weekend. I got busy with my exhibits and talks, and didn't get as many photos to cover everything. But for those who couldn't make it over to Texas for this VCF, here is a summary of a few things there. VCF Southwest 2024 (Dallas/Richardson) — voidstar <https://voidstar.blog/vcf-southwest-2024-dallas-richardson/> https://voidstar.blog/vcf-southwest-2024-dallas-richardson/

1 year, 9 months

1
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Lunar Lander, bug

by emanuel stiebler

Interesting reading, as I believe, we all played it at least once :) https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2024/06/retired-engineer-discovers-55-year-o…

1 year, 9 months

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VCF West tickets available now! Aug 2 & 3 @ CHM

by Jeffrey Brace

Tickets for VCF West 2024 Aug 2 & 3, Mountain View, CA The show is looking to be bigger than ever! We will again be at The Computer History Museum. Tickets available through this link: https://buy.acmeticketing.com/events/499/list Existing VCF Members were emailed the coupon code for their 20% discount. New members can email us after creating their membership to get the code.

1 year, 9 months

1
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Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

by Dave Dunfield

I case anyone is interested... I've just passed on my "Mits Altair 8800" - this is a very historic system from the 70s - it is: First Personal Computer (long before IBM PC) First S100 buss system First system Bill Gates wrote code for (long before Microsoft) I did write a pretty decent emulator for my exact Altair system some years ago... And with recent interest in the system, I've just updated it with a few minor improvements and a "cleaned up" edition of the software I created to bootstrap a hardware front-panel based system (no on-board ROM) via a serial port card - requiring you to enter only 18 bytes through the front panel So .. if you'd like to experience what it was like to use a system from the 70s - here's some of the things you can do: Bootstrap it cold Run NorthStar DOS (one of the first commercial DOSes) Run DMF (Device Management Facility) - a DOS I created for it - can you tell that at the time I was working on an IBM mainframe ... my - OS name sounds a lot like various IBM mainframe packages at the time. A few other software setups (for example there's a stand-alone bootable FORTH) Has Editors, Assemblers, BASIC and other tools from the era. and a few games - some written by yours truly - some very early commercial offerings (like "Cranston Manor Adventure", or "Valdez") Note1: My Altair emulator was created under DOS and is a 16 bit program! It does work very well with DosBox (I recommend the one on my site) Note2: I've not updated the ALTAIR.ZIP on "Daves Old Computers" yet - you can get the updated one from: "Daves Old Computers" -> Personal -> Downloads -> OlderDownloadsFromPrevious - look for "ALTAIR" under: Simulators and Emulators *** I don't follow this list nearly as much these days - if you want to reach me, use the contact link on my site! -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Search "Dave's Old Computers" see "my personal" at bottom!

1 year, 9 months

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The magic smoke....

by D. Resor

Seems this eBay seller let the magic smoke get out, then proceeded to power it on again one hour later. Litton Monroe OC 8820 https://www.ebay.com/itm/355793400092 See the description.. Don Resor

1 year, 9 months

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Re: Vintage computing in the San Francisco bay area

by Anders Sandahl

Hi! It's many interesting things here. I hope I can pass by Anchor Electronics. When I was looking on the map where to find it I noticed that Intel (and it's museum) is just a few blocks away. I think I'll miss Electronics flea market, I have read abut this in another context as well. It would have been great fun! We will miss the observatory's free views. Well, I have to stay longer the next time. /Anders On 2024-06-14 19:32, Curious Marc wrote: > If you happen to be there on the right Sunday, don’t miss the > electronics flea market! > Electronics Flea Market <https://www.electronicsfleamarket.com/> > electronicsfleamarket.com <https://www.electronicsfleamarket.com/> > favicon.ico <https://www.electronicsfleamarket.com/> > > <https://www.electronicsfleamarket.com/> > Also if you need old ICs and transistors at 1960’s prices, that odd > connector or the big old Sprague capacitor there is Anchor Electronics: > Anchor Electronics <https://anchor-electronics.com/> > anchor-electronics.com <https://anchor-electronics.com/> > favicon.ico <https://anchor-electronics.com/> > > <https://anchor-electronics.com/> > > You could view a lot, bid on it and pick it up at Auction BDI > Hibid <https://auctionbdi.hibid.com/> > auctionbdi.hibid.com <https://auctionbdi.hibid.com/> > <https://auctionbdi.hibid.com/> > > <https://auctionbdi.hibid.com/> > > Also take advantage of the clear California skies with telescope > viewing nights at the Foothill Observatory or at the Chabot Museum, > or, even better, at the Lick observatory > Foothill College Observatory - Foothill College > <https://foothill.edu/astronomy/observatory.html> > foothill.edu <https://foothill.edu/astronomy/observatory.html> > favicon.ico <https://foothill.edu/astronomy/observatory.html> > > <https://foothill.edu/astronomy/observatory.html> > https://chabotspace.org/events/free-telescope-viewings/ > lh_domes_wide.jpg > Public Evening Tours > <https://www.lickobservatory.org/events/public-evening-tours/> > lickobservatory.org > <https://www.lickobservatory.org/events/public-evening-tours/> > > <https://www.lickobservatory.org/events/public-evening-tours/> > > Marc > >> On Jun 13, 2024, at 12:15 PM, anders--- via cctalk >> <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: >> >> Hi, >> >> Soon I will travel to US and San Francisco/San José Area. Any tips >> for vintage computing and surpuls electronics? >> >> CHM is manatory, I'll go there. It would have been nice to see the >> PDP-1 in action, but I suscpect that we will not make it when it's >> demonstrated. >> >> /Anders

1 year, 9 months

1
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VCF Southwest June 14-16, 2024 - Dallas, Texas

by Jeffrey Brace

If you’re in the area, come see the show. Great attendance so far this year! More info: vcfsw.org Vintage Computer Federation has a table there too!

1 year, 9 months

1
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tape duplicator program for pdp11

by Jacob Ritorto

Hi, Just got a real (Cipher M990 on TS05-emulating controller) tape drive running and would like to make exact copies of some [9-track] tapes "to guard against disaster." Probably will also do some imaging, so bonus if the candidate program can handle that too. This is on an 11/34; I don't have a good q-bus tape controller yet or I'd try it on uVAX with NetBSD or something less "exciting" :) Anyone know of good programs to do this with only one tape drive? Don't care which operating system. Been looking through DECUS archives but have found nothing yet (manually reading thru - 1/3 of the way done, maybe there's a better way to scan these?). thx jake

1 year, 9 months

3
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Seeking Remex RRS3300 Paper Tape Reader info

by David Wise

I was given a Remex RRS3300RB5/550/DRA/S358 back around 1999. This 300cps machine uses a capstan and brake instead of a sprocket. The 180ips spooler is AC motors, triacs, brakes, tension arms loaded with microswitches (including a discrete differentiator), six relays, and a soft-start ramp. In spite of the ramp, the spooler was murderous, snapping tape after tape. After some modifications and adjustments I got it working pretty well, but I don't like that I had to change it. I never found a manual, and it has always bugged me. Does anyone here have anything? I have a manual for the RRS3301 which has a similar reader section but the spooler (my sore spot) is completely different. I have a manual for the RTS3300 S239 which is a custom-mod to fit in GE CNC systems of the time. It has no reader electronics, and a spooler that shows common ancestry but again it's not like mine. Thanks, Dave Wise in Hillsboro Oregon To be specific, I made two changes and found a set of resistor settings that treats the tape gently. The changes are (a) eliminate continuous takeup during the startup ramp, (b) block the transition to full speed. The soft start board simply ramps up to maximum and stays there. I made it easy to back these changes out if I ever find out how to make the instrument behave in stock trim. What is my 358 custom mod?

1 year, 9 months

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Vintage computing in the San Francisco bay area

by anders＠abc80.net

Hi, Soon I will travel to US and San Francisco/San José Area. Any tips for vintage computing and surpuls electronics? CHM is manatory, I'll go there. It would have been nice to see the PDP-1 in action, but I suscpect that we will not make it when it's demonstrated. /Anders

1 year, 9 months

4
3
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VCF West Aug 2 & 3, 2024 - Mountain View, CA

by Jeffrey Brace

Hello folks, We're less than a month away from shutting down exhibit and speaker registrations for VCF West. The July 4th weekend represents the end of both so I can use the rest of July to get the program built, get the floorplan finalized, create schedules, etc. So if you've been waiting to get your exhibit or talk registered, wait no more! We still have room for both, but I can't promise that will last all the way until July! This year's show is already shaping up to be a great one so you don't want to miss it! As always, details are at https://vcfed.org/events/vintage-computer-festival-west/ Attendee ticketing information and pre-orders will be posted soon. If you have any questions, comments, concerns or -especially- if you would like to volunteer to help with the show, please let me know at this email address. Thank you! Erik Klein VCF West Showrunner

1 year, 9 months

1
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teletype roll as an RF termination load

by Fritz Mueller

So, I recently salvaged a pair of ASR 33s and a PDP-8/I from a research lab where I work. A few folks chimed in on the "anybody want this" thread, but I happened to be the lucky winner (not lucky for my back or my basement, but they will be fun restoration projects.) One of the engineers here asked if there were any teletype rolls along with these and if so that they be salvaged because "...it is broadly lossy to rf and can be used as an rf termination load." When asked a little further if this was teletype rolls in particular, she replied yes, and that this was something she had picked up in former work as an RF engineer at Varian, from a previous generation of crafty engineers. I thought this was pretty interesting, and that the list here might have a cross-section of folks who might comment. Anybody heard of this before? Hmmm, teletypes *and* RF -- sounds like something Marc might want to check out... :-) cheers, --FritzM.

1 year, 9 months

13
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Re: Illiac II Library Routine

by Marvin Johnston

First, the date of the report is January 13, 1967. I don't plan of offering the report for sale. Once I find a good way of duplicating the report, I most likely will put the copies on a thumb driver and offer them for sale most likely for the price of the thumb drive (1 or 2 dollars.) If bitsavers wants copies, that would be great since it (they) will be available at no charge. Thanks for asking! Marvin > From: Bill Degnan<billdegnan(a)gmail.com> > Subject: [cctalk] Re: Illiac II Library Routine > > > Marvin > Are these for sale or are you bringing to exhibit? What year was the Iliac > II library routine published? I will be at VCFMW this year. > Bill > > On Tue, Jun 11, 2024, 11:26 AM Marvin Johnston via cctalk < > cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > >> Thanks for the offer,but I'm located in Santa Barbara, CA. My plans >> include VCFMW in September where I can bring a slew of his books, etc. >> I might add there are some IBM manuals including the 360 and 1401 >> Fortran II I've seen so far. >> >> Marvin >> >>

1 year, 9 months

3
2
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Dilog Multifunction MQ-100 board

by Douglas Taylor

Hopefully I can find someone who has a manual for this qbus board, if not, does anyone have experience with this board? Summary: It's a dual width qbus board with 1 DLV11-J port, 32KW Boot room, on board LTC circuit and has a 16 pin connector to attach to a front panel. I dumped the prom's and you can see them over on the VCF Forum/DEC page. I used PDP11GUI to probe the I/O space and it looks similar to a MXV11-B boot board, with the addition of a serial port, LTC and front panel control. The board has copyright 1986 so it's not that old. I guess a front panel would have; LED for RUN, LED for DC OK, a switch for HALT, switch for RESTART and possibly a switch to disable LTC. The board has a couple of 4N25 optocouplers and what signals would need isolation? Yes, I would like to use this put together a working qbus PDP11 using either 11/23 or 11/73 CPU, just for fun. Doug

1 year, 9 months

2
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Illiac II Library Routine

by Marvin Johnston

A friend of mine passed away about a year ago, and his wife is just getting around to sorting through his many books, papers, etc. The title of the heading title is what caught my attention. My current plan is to scan the 9 page paper and make it available to interested parties. Since me my plan is to bring many of his books/manuals to VCFMW in September. The identification is "A complete NICAP program which does matrix arithmetic." The heading is: University of Illinois Graduate College Department of Computer Science Illiac II Library Routine F1-UOI-MTRZAL-82-NI After I get it scanned, I will submit it Bitsavers and give the original to the Computer History Museum. There may end up being more such papers as his stuff continues to be sorted through. Marvin

1 year, 10 months

4
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Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

by brianb1224

😀

1 year, 10 months

1
0
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Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

by brianb1224

If I had his digital basement I would never come out.

1 year, 10 months

2
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Richmond Retro Computer Meetup - Sat. Jun. 15, 2024 - Richmond, VA

by Jeffrey Brace

Richmond Retro Computer Meetup Sat. Jun. 15, 2024 at the Richmond Public Library in Richmond, VA https://www.meetup.com/richmond-retro-computers/events/301122005/?utm_mediu…

1 year, 10 months

1
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Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

by John

On Mon, 03 Jun 2024 12:00:08 -0500 cctalk-request(a)classiccmp.org wrote: > > It's like John Conway's "game of life," but more prone to cause > > uncontrollable fits of laughter. > > You owe me a new keyboard (and another glass of milk). Even in death, his power remains ;)

1 year, 10 months

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TinyTapeOut and the Z80

by Martin Bishop

https://www.eenewseurope.com/en/tiny-tapeout-7-readies-open-source-z80-desi… May be of interest both in the context of the Z80 and other unobtanium silicon The lead time is long, ~6 months Martin

1 year, 10 months

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Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

by John Ames

From: CAREY SCHUG <sqrfolkdnc(a)comcast.net> > I used 1620s, and 360/30s, a 360/40, and others as a personal > computer at times, for things like writing a Tim Conway game of life, > keeping track of my vinyl records, etc. It's like John Conway's "game of life," but more prone to cause uncontrollable fits of laughter.

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Re: C. Gordon Bell, Creator of a Personal Computer Prototype, Dies at 89

by Mark Matlock

In addition to the Goodyear STARAN computer, another tire company Firestone did built some interesting one off systems of unusual design. My first job out of college was with Firestone Central Research. While there, I became friends with William Clayton who was one of three of their research fellows. He was a big proponent of APL and there I was exposed to the MCM/700 (see https://www.softwarepreservation.org/projects/apl/Brochures/MCM700Brochure ) and the IBM 5100 desktop APL computer as well as APL via IBM 360 timeshare. We used APL to simulate the heat flow and rubber curing in very large earth mover tires with finite-element techniques coupled with chemical kinetics. However, Bill Clayton most interesting work was around optimizing formulations from designed experiment data. He built an analog computer that used static card readers that provided contacts to feedback resistors to simultaneous compute the output of 16 second order polynomial equations with cross terms for 8 independent variables. Each of these 16 polynomials had 54 static coefficients that were determined from second order statistical regressions of data from designed experiments. One equation for example might be tensile strength of a rubber compounded with various amounts of sulfur, carbon black, oil, accelerators, etc. Then another equation might represent wear resistance measured from the same combination of compounding ingredients. The 16 equations had upper and lower limits of acceptable values for tensile strength, wear, etc. The analog computer would then begin an exhaustive grid search of the 8 independent variables to find a combination of the 8 ingredients that met all 16 of the desired output traits. When a solution was found the independent variable value voltages were read by an A/D controlled by a PDP-8 and then printed on a console. Thus the system was actually a hybrid computer part analog and part digital. I was told that doing the 8 factor grid search in Fortran on an IBM 360/168 would have taken 1300 hours but this hybrid system did it in 5 minutes, Only three of these systems were ever built, two of which were used outside of Firestone (one by the Air Force). U.S. Patent 3,560,725 from 1968 provides some background as it covered an early version of the later more highly developed system. Mark > From: Paul Koning <paulkoning(a)comcast.net> > Subject: [cctalk] Re: C. Gordon Bell, Creator of a Personal Computer Prototype, Dies at 89 > Date: May 23, 2024 at 6:58:06 PM CDT > To: "cctalk(a)classiccmp.org" <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> > Cc: Kevin Anderson <kevin_anderson_dbq(a)yahoo.com> > Reply-To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> > > > I have a vague memory of visiting the Computer Museum when it was still at DEC, in the Marlboro building (MRO-n). About the only item I recall is a Goodyear STARAN computer (or piece of one). I found it rather surprising to have see a computer made by a tire company. I learned years later that the STARAN is a very unusual architecture, sometimes called a one-bit machine. More precisely, I think it's a derivative of William Shooman's "Orthogonal Computer" vector computer architecture, which was for a while sold by Sanders Associates where he worked. > > paul

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Re: interlace [was: NTSC TV demodulator ]

by CAREY SCHUG

This may have been covered before, VERY early in this tread. I think I tried a game on a flatscreen, and had issues. I don't know if it applies to the radio shack Color Computer, the interest of the original poster. many games and entry pcs with old style tv analog format, don't interlace, and tube TVs nearly all (except maybe a few late model high end ones?) are fine with that, but I seem to recall that most or all digital/flat screen can't deal with non-interlace. <pre>--Carey</pre>

1 year, 10 months

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Punchcards

by lukaskron＠posteo.de

Hello! This is my first message to this mailing list but I think this question is well suited for here. My name is Lukas and I am currently living in Germany and I am searching for punch cards preferable with logos/universities around the world. If someone still has some of such cards laying around I would love a message of your offer (off-list). Highly appreciated as I am collecting them. Kindly Lukas

1 year, 10 months

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Video/keyboard mono cable for Sun 386i

by Stefano Sanna

Hi. I recently bought a Sun Microsystems 386i and I discovered (too late...) that monitor and keyboard are connected to the same D15 connector on the back using a "Y" cable (I had experience with other Sun workstations, this was first contact with Intel-based hardware). Unfortunately, I have not such a cable neither I was able to find any info on the web about the pinout/wiring; probably it would be possible to create the cable from scratch (assuming that no other circuitry was inside the original Y cable). Moreover, I discovered that there is more than one option for video boards (mono and color): therefore, there is more than a single Y cable to connect monitor and keyboard. Looking at the official Sun's hardware list, I found this item: 630-1621 386i video/keyboard cable but it does not specify whether it is the mono or the color cable. In any case, it seems impossible to buy it on eBay or similar. Does anybody have some information on how to rebuild it? Thank you. -s

1 year, 10 months

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Re: Video/keyboard mono cable for Sun 386i

by Stefano Sanna

[sending message again, with attachment replaced by a link: https://www.mmcc.it/resources/misc/IMG_7975_video.JPG ] Thank you Richard! To use this cable, I need to replace my video card with a color one. Please, see attached picture of the connector I have on my 386i. I suppose that finding the video card is harder then the cable itself! :-) However, this cable could be a good start for trying to do some reverse engineering of the pinouts. Since the code I found is different, I supposed that we can assume 630-1621 is the code of monochrome screen/cable. BR. -s On 30/05/24 11:47, Richard wrote: > Oh and there is this > > > > s-l400.jpg > SUN Microsystems 530-1366-01 Monitor + Keyboard Cable 13W3 Mini Din8 > /A4 8 Pin > <https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/295331844851?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=705-154756-…> > ebay.com.au > <https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/295331844851?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=705-154756-…> > > <https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/295331844851?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=705-154756-…> > Which looks right > Sent from my iPhone > >> On 30 May 2024, at 19:07, Stefano Sanna via cctalk >> <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: >> >> Hi. >> >> I recently bought a Sun Microsystems 386i and I discovered (too >> late...) that monitor and keyboard are connected to the same D15 >> connector on the back using a "Y" cable (I had experience with other >> Sun workstations, this was first contact with Intel-based hardware). >> >> Unfortunately, I have not such a cable neither I was able to find any >> info on the web about the pinout/wiring; probably it would be >> possible to create the cable from scratch (assuming that no other >> circuitry was inside the original Y cable). Moreover, I discovered >> that there is more than one option for video boards (mono and color): >> therefore, there is more than a single Y cable to connect monitor and >> keyboard. >> >> Looking at the official Sun's hardware list, I found this item: >> >> 630-1621 386i video/keyboard cable >> >> but it does not specify whether it is the mono or the color cable. In >> any case, it seems impossible to buy it on eBay or similar. >> >> Does anybody have some information on how to rebuild it? >> >> Thank you. >> -s

1 year, 10 months

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Re: Pragmatically [was: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)]

by CAREY SCHUG

> On 05/28/2024 1:05 PM CDT Sellam Abraham <sellam.ismail(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > What if a corporation in 1970 purchased an IBM 360 for each of their employees for their individual personal use? Now what? > > Sellam > 1. I don't believe ANYBODY could purchase a 360. You had to lease them. 2. do you know of such a company? (with a significant number of employees, not a lone entrepreneur). I figure asking means that maybe you do. and since I believe no 360 but maybe the model 20 (not a real 360) or the model 22 would plug into household power it seems unlikely unless a tax dodge. 3. if it was one purchase order, it sounds like ONE for the personal computer tally, vs thousands for the not-personal tally. Remember we still need to have enough computers to be 10% (or negotiated percentage) of the total produced. One exception does not change everything. ----------------------- I should have repeated my other suggestion. Only computers NOT depreciated/expensed count as personal. If depreciated, it is a business computer for business purposes. to summarize any or all of the following: -- if depreciated or expensed (reducing income) it is business, otherwise personal. ** --10% of purchases (a lot counts as ONE purchase, including "100-200 per month for 3 years") must be out of household funds (per income tax filings) for and used for household education, not for earning claimed income. --by some criteria, be able to plug into private home power for a reasonable subset of the population. ** There could be tax reasons/dodges (not saying they are legal): (1) a small business could expense them immediately (vs depreciate over years) by titling them in employees' or families' names, (2) a private individual could depreciate even though not actually doing any significant amount of income earning work on them (3) would have been expensed/depreciated but not enough income to be of any advantage, (4) probably many others, ask a shady tax lawyer. --Carey

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Re: terminology [was: First Personal Computer]

by John

From: ben <bfranchuk(a)jetnet.ab.ca> To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: terminology [was: First Personal Computer] > The third thing is a real OS. Nobody has one, as a personal computer. > CP/M and MSDOS does not handle IRQ's. Unix for the PDP-11 is real > operating system but not personal as it requires a admin,and a > swapping media. This an auld refrain among *nix partisans of the ESR type, but I've yet to hear someone offer up a real defense of it. Even putting aside what "handles IRQs" means here (yes, strictly speaking the IRQs on the IBM PC are handled by the BIOS and/or add-on drivers/utilties, but DOS most certainly makes use of the facilities provided,) why does that make it "not a real OS?" What does PDP-11 Unix provide which MS-DOS doesn't to make one "real" and the other not? Certainly, nothing about a single-tasking single-user text-based environment *requires* interrupt-based I/O, even if it may smooth out performance in some aspects. And there's little if any call for a security system that'd require an administrator account in such a model; if one user "owns" the machine, whatever they decide to do to it can be Considered Legitimate. Virtual-memory capability may certainly enable the user to do more than they'd otherwise be able to, but it's hard to make an argument for it as a *requirement;* even *nix can run without swap, and in point of fact DOS can be support virtual memory with a protected-mode extender. Or is it multi-tasking capability itself that makes the difference? Can't see why that should be the case; it's definitely convenient, but as one person can only be doing so much at any given time, it's also hard to see that as a *requirement.* So what, then, consitutes a Real Operating System, and why?

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Re: First Personal Computer

by Smith, Wayne

I did a bit of searching on Google Books and there is an article from the June 28, 1972 issue of ComputerWorld that states "Ever since Hitachi introduce the Hitac 10 as a 'personal computer' in 1969, not only the regular computer manufacturers but electric appliance, calculator, watchmakers, communications and software companies, and even textile manufacturers, have plunged into the minigame." While they are talking about minis, what this does show is that the term "personal computer" was used prior to the advent of the Altair.

1 year, 10 months

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Help? Programming SCM90448 EPROMs

by emanuel stiebler

Hi all, anybody in the US could program some SCM90448 EPROMs for me? None of my programmers I have here, can do it. Some old, trusty DATA I/O ??? Thanks!

1 year, 10 months

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Re: First Personal Computer

by Christian Corti

[Forwarded from Martin Bishop as some anti spam mechanism rejects his posts] -----Original Message----- From: Martin Bishop Sent: 27 May 2024 23:57 To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts' <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> Subject: RE: [cctalk] Re: First Personal Computer In the UK the domestic wiring norm is 13A plugs on a 32A ring at 230V : ~3 kW. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AC_power_plugs_and_sockets#BS_1363_(Type_G) My domestic computer supplies are wired out on BS4343 (Euro / Industrial) plugs and sockets 16A on a 32A ring at 230V : 3k68 VA. https://www.edwardes.co.uk/categories/industrial-euro-plugs---sockets-bs4343 IMHO, based on measurement, the BS4343 outlets have much better earth conductivity than the BS1361 Gs I want the protective devices to trip, not an electrical experience - other folk's installations provided that Tshirt Martin -----Original Message----- From: Christian Corti via cctalk [mailto:cctalk@classiccmp.org] Sent: 27 May 2024 16:53 To: Don R. <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> Cc: Christian Corti <cc(a)informatik.uni-stuttgart.de> Subject: [cctalk] Re: First Personal Computer > 16amps where? In Europe? At least in Germany 16 amps is standard. The Schuko outlets and plugs are rated for this current. As an example, the fuse box in my appartment is splitting up the three input phases (63A each) from the main distribution panel to 3x 3 circuits/16A each. Christian

1 year, 10 months

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Re: ANITA ((was: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

by Rick Bensene

Christian Corti wrote: > The Anita electronic desktop calculators are a perfect example for the usage of > selenium rectifiers in logic gates. ..and anyone who has restored one knows that the vast majority of the back-to-back selenium diode packages have to be replaced with something else as they no longer function properly. Ambient moisture kills Selenium as a semiconductor, and even though these devices were packaged to avoid that to some degree, after 60 years, stuff happens. Many restorers resort to de-soldering the dual-diode packages from the circuit boards, hollowing out the package (removing the Selenium rectifiers and the potting material used) and installing back-to-back conventional Silicon diodes that are rated for the appropriate voltages involved in these machines, potting the diodes in place with some kind of material (epoxy?), and re-soldering the package to the circuit board. These calculators used gas-discharge active logic elements (e.g., thyratrons and dekatrons) and used (relatively speaking) high voltages for their logic levels. Fortunately, these gas-discharge devices seem to fare quite well with time, and though some do fail due to atomic-level outgassing or simple breakage, the majority of them work just as well the day the machine came off the assembly line. Such practice with the Selenium rectifier modules makes the calculator look original if done carefully, and allows it to function when operation was impossible with the original devices. It is an extremely tedious and time-consuming process, as there are a great many of these devices used in the first-generation Sumlock/ANITA calculators. I applaud anyone with the courage and patience to perform such surgery on these unusual artifacts. Fortunately, the circuit boards are quite robustly made, and the traces are large and well adhered to the base material of the circuit board (unlike many later calculators), making such an operation feasible. I am not brave enough to try this with the museum's ANITA Mk8. After 25+ years of owning this artifact, I have not even tried to apply power to it in any fashion, and probably never will. It is one of the very few calculators in the museum that is probably not in operational condition, as I strive for all of the exhibited machines to be operable and available for visitors to the physical museum to play with if they desire. I'm content to leave it as it is for a display machine, as it is in very nice original condition. Interesting to note that many ANITA Mk8 machines have a single transistor in them. It's in the power supply. The designers were comfortable enough using these relatively fussy gas-discharge logic devices as digital devices(they had developed machines like Colossus using this technology considerably before transistors were a thing, so there was certainly historical precedent), but the transistor was just fine for an analog purpose in the power supply. Boy, did they ever get it backwards (in terms of the longevity of gas-discharge logic elements in electronic calculators and what became the ubiquitous use to transistors)! Not intended at all to slight the accomplishment of Sumlock Comptometer in the development of these calculators. They set the stage for the explosion of what was to become a many hundreds of million dollar market by the end of the decade, not to mention setting the electronic calculator up to be the driving force behind integrated circuit development for a consumer-oriented device. ICs before their development for use in calculators were only for big mainframe computers, military weapons systems, the spooks at places like the NSA, and the space program. For that matter, the ANITA Mk7/8 could be said to be the progenitors for the development of the CPU on a chip, and by extension, the personal computer. Notice I didn't specify any machine, or say "first". Slippery slope there. Rick Bensene The Old Calculator Museum https://oldcalculatormuseum.com

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PCs in home vs businesses (70s/80s)

by Tarek Hoteit

I came across this paragraph from the July 1981 Popular Science magazine edition in the article titled “Compute power - pro models at almost home-unit prices.” “ ‘Personal-computer buffs may buy a machine, bring it home, and then spend the rest of their time looking for things it can do’, said …. ‘In business, it’s the other way around. Here you know the job, you have to find a machine that will do it. More precisely, you have to find software that will do the job. Finding a computer to use the software you’ve selected becomes secondary.”. Do you guys* think that software drove hardware sales rather than the other way around for businesses in the early days? I recall that computer hardware salespeople would be knocking on businesses office doors rather than software salesmen. Just seeking your opinion now that we are far ahead from 1981. (*I do wish we have female gender engaged in the classic computing discussions threads as well. Maybe there is.) Regards, Tarek Hoteit AI Consultant, PhD +1 360-838-3675

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Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

by John Foust

At 07:50 AM 5/24/2024, Henry Bent via cctalk wrote: >Surely the code written for Traf-O-Data, before Altair BASIC, counts as a >commercial product; I'm not sure what definition of "published" you're >using here. They didn't sell Traf-o-data, did they? I thought it was a tool they used to analyze data for municipalities, and got paid for the service. - John

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Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

by Dave Dunfield

Sorry in not a proper chained reply - it's been so long since I've subscribed to this list, systems have changed, and I really can't recall how to log in - so I can post replies! These are replies to my previous: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s) -- Chuck Guizis (and several others) -- On "first personal computer" >I don't think the "first" applies in this case. The MCM/70 used an 8008 >and was complete computer with storage and display--something the MITS >8800 was not. I knew this would get lots of comments! -this is what my documentation says: Others debate it, however the Altair deserves this title because: - First computer of substantial capability marketed to hobbiests and small business, and affordable by people of modest means. - First computer to be widely owned by people not professionally involved with the computers industry. - First widely standardized small system bus (S-100), opened the "off the shelf" market for computer add-on's. Ed Roberts, Altair creator: "We coined the phrase Personal Computer and it was first applied to the Altair, i.e., by definition the first personal computer." .. "The beginning of the personal computer industry started without question at MITS with the Altair." -- Christian Corti -- on "Bill Gates first code" >Didn't he write code for DEC machines at his school before that? I'm sure he wrote code before Mits BASIC - everyone writes lots of stuff as they learn - but as far as I have been able to determine - Mits BASIC was his first published commercial product. -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Search "Dave's Old Computers" see "my personal" at bottom!

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Re: C. Gordon Bell, Creator of a Personal Computer Prototype, Dies at 89

by Kevin Anderson

I had the good fortune of visiting The Computer Museum in Boston in the summer of 1984. Reading the museum's Wikipedia article, it appears I was there while they were still freshly setting up their Museum Wharf location, yet hadn't officially opened yet. Unfortunately I only had an hour (or little more) to visit before I had to return to where my wife was at a different location (which I vaguely recall was at an aquarium somewhere nearby?). The clerk at the front entrance was really surprised that I was leaving so soon...which in hindsight I wish now had not been so short. Kevin Anderson Dubuque, Iowa

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Re: C. Gordon Bell, Creator of a Personal Computer Prototype, Dies at 89

by Sellam Abraham

On Wed, May 22, 2024 at 1:15 PM John Foust <jfoust(a)threedee.com> wrote: > At 01:32 PM 5/22/2024, Sellam Abraham via cctalk wrote: > >His and his wife > >Gwen's (god rest her soul as well) personal collecting and the museum at > >DEC was the basis for the Boston Computer Museum, which effectively went > >west and became the Computer History Museum. > > He was quite sensitive about this. I made the same mistake, referring > to it as the "Boston Computer Museum." He told me: > > "Let me be clear The Computer Museum (TCM) was NEVER called the > Boston Computer Museum... Boston was a temporary home when computing > passed through New England, but the city itself gave nothing to it. > ... As a former collector, founder, and board member of the > Digital Computer Museum > The Computer Museum >> current Computer History > Museum > (a name I deplore and that exists only because of the way the Museum left > Boston) > I have always been a strong advocate of getting as many artifacts into as > many > hands as possible, and this includes selling museum artifacts when > appropriate. > In essence a whole industry of museums and collectors is essential." > > - John > I appreciate the clarification. I agree that it's a shame that the CHM couldn't be called TCM. "Computer History Museum" is a fairly awkward name. Sellam

1 year, 10 months

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Re: C. Gordon Bell, Creator of a Personal Computer Prototype, Dies at 89

by John Foust

At 01:32 PM 5/22/2024, Sellam Abraham via cctalk wrote: >His and his wife >Gwen's (god rest her soul as well) personal collecting and the museum at >DEC was the basis for the Boston Computer Museum, which effectively went >west and became the Computer History Museum. He was quite sensitive about this. I made the same mistake, referring to it as the "Boston Computer Museum." He told me: "Let me be clear The Computer Museum (TCM) was NEVER called the Boston Computer Museum... Boston was a temporary home when computing passed through New England, but the city itself gave nothing to it. ... As a former collector, founder, and board member of the Digital Computer Museum > The Computer Museum >> current Computer History Museum (a name I deplore and that exists only because of the way the Museum left Boston) I have always been a strong advocate of getting as many artifacts into as many hands as possible, and this includes selling museum artifacts when appropriate. In essence a whole industry of museums and collectors is essential." - John

1 year, 10 months

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C. Gordon Bell, Creator of a Personal Computer Prototype, Dies at 89

by Christian Liendo

Ars Technica https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2024/05/gordon-bell-an-architect-of-our-dig… New York Times Obit https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/21/technology/c-gordon-bell-dead.html?unloc…

1 year, 10 months

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Thirties techies and computing history

by Tarek Hoteit

A friend of a friend had a birthday gathering. Everyone there was in their thirties, except for myself, my wife, and our friend. Anyway, I met a Google engineer, a Microsoft data scientist, an Amazon AWS recruiter (I think she was a recruiter), and a few others in tech who are friends with the party host. I had several conversations about computer origins, the early days of computing, its importance in what we have today, and so on. What I found disappointing and saddening at the same time is their utmost ignorance about computing history or even early computers. Except for their recall of the 3.5 floppy or early 2000’s Windows, there was absolutely nothing else that they were familiar with. That made me wonder if this is a sign that our living version of classical personal computing, in which many of us here in this group witnessed the invention of personal computing in the 70s, will stop with our generation. I assume that the most engaging folks in this newsgroup are in their fifties and beyond. (No offense to anyone. I am turning fifty myself) I sense that no other generation following this user group's generation will ever talk about Altairs, CP/M s, PDPs, S100 buses, Pascal, or anything deemed exciting in computing. Is there hope, or is this the end of the line for the most exciting era of personal computers? Thoughts? Regards, Tarek Hoteit

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Re: Thirties techies and computing history

by Tarek Hoteit

Thank you, Josh. How did your passion start with classical computers? Maybe this helps in understanding the generation? Regards, Tarek Hoteit > On May 19, 2024, at 08:39, Joshua Rice via cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > > Younger folk are indeed more ignorant of where technology came from, but i wouldn't say all of them are. I'm 32 years young and, well, i'm posting this email on the mailing list, so that probably says enough. > > Sure, the pool of those interested in old computer tech might be smaller nowadays than it used to be, but then so is the pool of those interested in Ford Model T's or gasoline powered Maytag washing machines, or steam traction engines. But as long as stuff exists, there will be people interested in tinkering with it. It's just that some tech is just not relevant any more, so those exposed to it or used it in anger are going to be fewer and far between. > > It's OK to be concerned, but i don't think the retro computing scene is as dire as some might make it out to be. > > Cheers, > > Josh Rice > >> On 19/05/2024 16:14, Tarek Hoteit via cctalk wrote: >> A friend of a friend had a birthday gathering. Everyone there was in their thirties, except for myself, my wife, and our friend. Anyway, I met a Google engineer, a Microsoft data scientist, an Amazon AWS recruiter (I think she was a recruiter), and a few others in tech who are friends with the party host. I had several conversations about computer origins, the early days of computing, its importance in what we have today, and so on. What I found disappointing and saddening at the same time is their utmost ignorance about computing history or even early computers. Except for their recall of the 3.5 floppy or early 2000’s Windows, there was absolutely nothing else that they were familiar with. That made me wonder if this is a sign that our living version of classical personal computing, in which many of us here in this group witnessed the invention of personal computing in the 70s, will stop with our generation. I assume that the most engaging folks in this newsgroup are in their fifties and beyond. (No offense to anyone. I am turning fifty myself) I sense that no other generation following this user group's generation will ever talk about Altairs, CP/M s, PDPs, S100 buses, Pascal, or anything deemed exciting in computing. Is there hope, or is this the end of the line for the most exciting era of personal computers? Thoughts? >> Regards, >> Tarek Hoteit

1 year, 10 months

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NTSC TV demodulator

by wrcooke＠wrcooke.net

I have a couple of 70s/80s "home" computers (e.g. Radio Shack Color Computer) that are intended to connect to a TV set. They don't have easily available composite video, even internally, only modulated RF output. Currently I have an old CRT TV that I use with them, but for various reasons that isn't practical long-term. Does anyone know of a small TV tuner that tunes old analog TV channels (US NTSC) and outputs composite or VGA or HDMI signals? I've looked around a bit but haven't found anything. It's relatively easy to build one, but I would prefer a pre-built solution. And I'm sure others have run into this same problem. Thanks, Will

1 year, 10 months

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Re: Thirties techies and computing history

by Tarek Hoteit

But, Bill, maybe you did influence at least one student or more when you showed them the PDP or VAX. Perhaps we don't know who, but we have to keep believing that we are influencing someone somewhere. The fact that you are 73 (Jon also said he is in his 70s) and your passion is rock solid is an excellent attestation that those who love computers are unique and will always do so. We don't need every techie to be involved, only the passionate ones. Josh is deep into classic computers in his thirties, as he said. Sellam joined the group in his twenties, thirty years ago. Many of us are of different ages. I am in my fifty and touched the first computer key on a keyboard in 78. This group maybe one of the last mailing lists standing about classical computer. To be specific: I saw a lot of Discord channels on retro computers but they all lack true experienced folks who actually worked on such machines. I guess the most important thing is for that special geek out there is to be aware of this distribution and make sure to keep it running Regards, Tarek Hoteit AI Consultant, PhD +1 360-838-3675 > On May 19, 2024, at 09:31, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > On 5/19/2024 11:14 AM, Tarek Hoteit via cctalk wrote: >> A friend of a friend had a birthday gathering. Everyone there was in their thirties, except for myself, my wife, and our friend. Anyway, I met a Google engineer, a Microsoft data scientist, an Amazon AWS recruiter (I think she was a recruiter), and a few others in tech who are friends with the party host. I had several conversations about computer origins, the early days of computing, its importance in what we have today, and so on. What I found disappointing and saddening at the same time is their utmost ignorance about computing history or even early computers. Except for their recall of the 3.5 floppy or early 2000’s Windows, there was absolutely nothing else that they were familiar with. That made me wonder if this is a sign that our living version of classical personal computing, in which many of us here in this group witnessed the invention of personal computing in the 70s, will stop with our generation. I assume that the most engaging folks in this newsgroup are in their fifties and beyond. (No offense to anyone. I am turning fifty myself) I sense that no other generation following this user group's generation will ever talk about Altairs, CP/M s, PDPs, S100 buses, Pascal, or anything deemed exciting in computing. Is there hope, or is this the end of the line for the most exciting era of personal computers? Thoughts? > > > I'm 73. How do you think I feel. I worked for 25 years in a Computer > Science Department of a University and not only did they not teach any > of the history. They mostly didn't know it themselves anyway. I kept > PDP-11's and Vaxen in the department for the students to see and, if > they wished, use but eventually I was told it was wasting space and > when they moved the department to the new science building there was > no space allocated for anything but the bare minimum of equipment. > > bill

1 year, 10 months

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Help request with fundraising campaign to save historic computers

by Gianluca Bonetti

Hello everyone I have been following this mailing for a long time but have never posted yet. Simply, I never had something interesting to write about, until now. Apologies for my first message being a funding request, but I trust you will agree with me about the importance of this matter for preserving computer history. I am helping Museo del Computer with this fundraising effort in order to save a large number of machines with significant historic value, including some Sperry Univac systems. Museo del Computer is a non-profit organization in northern Italy, run solely by volunteer work and donors' money since governments are still not interested in computer history. Museo del Computer is one of the largest computer history museums worldwide, with 4000 sqm between exhibition area and storage space, open to the public upon booking. This recovery expedition will go as far as 750km to load 100+ machines onto 3 lorries. The goal is to preserve these history-rich machines for all living enthusiasts and for future generations. All these hundred machines are really pieces of history, around 50 years old (I wasn't even born back then!) They need to be saved, moved carefully, and preserved in the custody of a Museum which we can all benefit from. The fundraising campaign is on Fundrazr at this link https://fundrazr.com/computermuseum Header pictures show some of the actual machines being saved: they are in great condition and probably still working. I trust you understand the importance of this activity in preserving computer history! Your contribution is greatly appreciated! Please share and spread the word! Thank you very much for any contributions! Will keep you posted, and hope to meet you at Museo del Computer any time soon! Gianluca Bonetti

1 year, 10 months

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Mylar/Sponge Keyboard Repair Kits

by Marvin Johnston

I've got a couple of keyboards where the sponge has disintegrated to the point they no longer work. The latest one is a Vector 3 keyboard and I would love to get it fixed. Can repair kits still be purchased and/or are the instructions for making those sponge/mylar pieces available? Thanks! Marvin

1 year, 10 months

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Papertape-Reader Decitek 442A9: need manual/schematics

by Michael Fritsch

I have a Decitek 442A9 papertape reader which needs repair. I have already replaced the belt, but that is not enough. The reader behaves very strangely. It starts running as soon as I apply power. And there is another problem: when I load a tape, it rattles irregular during reading. This is not a mechanical problem, it seems to react to the pulse of the feed hole, which arrives at the wrong time. I'm pretty sure, that I have to adjust the sprockets somehow relative to the stop positions of the stepper motor. It was nothing to be found online except pictures of a similar model 443A9 at RICM: https://www.ricomputermuseum.org/collections-gallery/equipment/dec-pdp-8s-4. The controller board number is 30291A Does anyone happen to have the manual and/or schematics or any other documents? Thank you, Micha

1 year, 10 months

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Re: Random items on Pascal #3

by Fred Cisin

Turbo-Pascal was quite popular. At the annnouncement of it (West Coast Computer Faire), Phillipe Kahn (Borland) was so inundated with "yeah, but what about C?" questions, that by the end of the first day, "Turbo C is coming soon"

1 year, 10 months

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ANSI-M (Mumps) and the VA

by Bill Gunshannon

With the VA dropping Vista what happens to that army of Mumps programmers they had? Can't see much call for them in the IT world today. Seems like a worse fate than COBOL Programmers. bill

1 year, 10 months

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BASIC

by Murray McCullough

Nostalgia keeps pressing ahead: It was 60 yrs. ago that BASIC came into existence. I remember very well writing in Apple Basic and GW Basic later on. As a non-compiled OS, an interpreted OS, it was just the right tool for a microcomputer with limited memory. I recall fondly taking code from popular magazines and getting them to run. It was thrilling indeed! Happy computing, Murray 🙂

1 year, 10 months

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Re: Random items on Pascal #3

by Charles

In the early '80's, I did some programming with Micro Concurrent Pascal, on embedded CDP1802 systems. It was really nice to be able to program in something other than assembly language (a cross-assembler that ran on a PDP-11 system). Regarding protections, it didn't have many. I remember spending a day tracking down a fatal bug with a logic analyzer (emulators were still a dream in this small company)... another programmer had used an array subscript out of range and the compiler didn't catch it for some reason. So in this array defined [0..20], when the typo caused a write to FOO[60] instead of FOO[20], bad things happened. Ah, the good old days ;) -Charles

1 year, 11 months

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Saga of CP/M

by Fred Cisin

PL/M (think "PL/1") was a high level programming language for microprocessors. CP/M was also briefly called "Control Program and Monitor" It was written by Gary Kildall. (May 19, 1942 - july 11, 1994) Gary taught at Navy Postgraduate School in Monterey. He took a break in 1972, to complete his PhD at University of Washington. He wrote 8008 and 8080 instruction set simulators for Intel, and they loaned him hardware. In 1973? he wrote CP/M. He offered it to Intel, but they didn't want it, although they marketed the PL/M. He and his wife started "Intergalactic Digital Research" in Pacific Grove. Later renamed "Digital Research, Inc." CP/M rapidly became a defacto standard as operating system for 8080 and later Z80 computers. In the late 1970s, when CP/M computers were available with 5.25" drives, and there were hundreds, soon thousands of different formats, I chatted with Gary, and pleaded with him ot create a "standard" format for 5.25". His response was a very polite, "The standard format for CP/M is 8 inch single sided single density." I pointed out that formats were proliferating excessively. His response was a very polite, "I understand. Sorry, but the standard format for CP/M is 8 inch single sided single density." In 1980? IBM was developing a personal computer. (y'all have heard of it) One of the IBM people had a Microsoft Softcard (Z80 plus CP/M) in his Apple. IBM went to Microsoft, to negotiate BASIC for the new machine, and CP/M. Bill Gates explained and sent them to Digital Research. When the IBM representatives arrived, Gary was flying his plane up to Oakland to visit Bill Godbout. He hadn't seen a need to be present, and assumed that Dorothy would take care of the [presumably completely routine] paperwork. While visiting Bill godbout, and delivering some software was important, it WAS something that a low level courier could have done. There was a little bit of a culture clash. The IBM people were all in identical blue suits. The DR people were in sandals, barefoot, shorts, t-shirts, braless women, with bicycles, surfboard, plants and even cats in the office, The IBM people demanded a signed non=disclosure ageement before talking. Dorothy Kildall refused. When Dorothy got Gary on the phone, it is unreliably reported that he said, "well, let them sit on the couch and wait their turn like the rest of the customers." It is also been said that DR people upstairs saw the IBM people marching up, and thought that it was a drug raid. I have stood in that bay window overlooking the front door, and can believe that. IBM chose to not do business with DR and went back to Microsoft. When billg was unable to convince them that Microsoft was not in the operating system business, Microsoft went into the operating system business. They bought an unlimited license to QDOS (Tim Paterson's work at Seattle Computer Products). They also hired Tim Paterson. DR was working on CP/M-86, but it was a ways off. Paterson had written QDOS ("Quick and Dirty Operating System") as a placeholder to be able to continue development while waiting for CP/M-86 We've mentioned before, that Tim Paterson got the idea for the directory structure from Microsoft Standalone BASIC. As Chuck pointed out, that was not a new invention, merely a choice of which way to do it. billg knew how to deal with officious managers. It is unreliably said that he told the Microsoft people, "Everybody who does not own a suit, stay home tomorrow!" IBM insisted that Micorsoft beef up security. window shades, locks on doors that normally weren't, locks on file cabinets, etc. It is unreliably said that to throw off anyboy who heard about it, that Microsoft referred to the IBm project as "Project Commodore" dr continued to sell CP/M. When the 5150/:PC was ready, IBM announced it with PC-DOS, which was a renaming of MS-DOS,renaming 86-DOS, renaming QDOS. If I recall correctly theprice was $40 (or maybe $60?) DR pointed out that NS-DOS was extremely similar to CP/M. https://www.cs.drexel.edu/~johnsojr/2012-13/fall/cs370/resources/An%20Insid… IBM didn't consider it a problem, andsimply offered to ALSO sell CP/M-86, particularly since they were already also marketing UCSD P-System. CP/M-86 was not available yet, so everybody buying a disk based PC bought PC-DOS. But, most of us assumed thata CP/M-86 would become the standard once it came out, and PC-DOS was similar and let us use the machines while waiting. CP/M-86 took a long time to come out (6 months is a LONG time in such things). When it did, the price was $240. There are disagreemnets about whether DR or IBM had set the price point. Most decided to keep using Pc-DOs until CP/M-86 had caught on. But with the price differential, and the lead, PC-DOS remained the standard. dr continued, came out with MP/M-86, and eventually came out with "Concurrent DOS", and "DR-DOS", which was based on MS-DOS. Microsoft could not fault somebody for copying them, when it was the ones that they had copied. No, Microsoft could certainly not claim trademark status for "DOS"! In fact, although Microsoft trademarkd "MS-DOS", IBM did NOT trademark PC-DOS, saying that it just meant Personal Compter Disk Operating System, which is a description, not a unique name. In 1987, I visited the Patent and Trademark Office outside of Washington, DC, and personally confirmed that in their stacks. Many people have said that blowing off IBM was the stupidest move in the history of stupid moves. Other people insist that blowing off IBM was the BRAVEST move in history. A lot of people gave Gary flack about it. eventually, he bagan drinking. On July 8, 1994, Gary fell and hit his head. It is unclear whether that was during an altercation. (A lot of people fall during bar brawls) It was at the Franklin Street biker Bar & Grill, Investigation as a potential homicide was inconclusive. About 10 years ago, I was in Pacific Grove, and visited the DR house on Lighthouse street. An extremely hospitable fellow had recently bought it in a foreclosure sale. At the time that he bought it, he was unaware of the historical significance. He let me wander through the whole place, looking out the upstairs window at the walkway, etc. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin(a)xenosoft.com

1 year, 11 months

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Re: DOS p-System Pascal: (Was: Saga of CP/M)

by John

On Fri, 10 May 2024 12:00:07 -0500 cctalk-request(a)classiccmp.org wrote: > The UCSD shell was atrocious. The compiler was slow. The editor was > terrible. The entire experience was reminiscent of working on a dumb > terminal connected to a mainframe, when it could've taken advantage of > the features of the personal computer. > > I hated it. > > I hate it. I've never had the pleasure, but a glance over the documentation is... enlightening. God only knows why so many people over the decades have gravitated to the "pick the thing you want to do from this list of the things which can be done" school of UI design...

1 year, 11 months

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Re: Random items on Pascal #4

by Robert Stek

After 'lunch with Draper', you almost immediately reference a 'CRUNCH' utility? Seems like more than coincidence to me, but I'm big on conspiracy theories.

1 year, 11 months

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New VCF Video bumper

by Jeffrey Brace

The Vintage Computer Federation is looking for a new bumper to add to the front and back of all their new videos. There are 7 different versions. Vote on the one that you like best! https://forms.gle/Y9Qrj26xokeFXjub6

1 year, 11 months

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VCF Southwest June 14-16, Dallas, TX - Preview livestream

by Jeffrey Brace

The organizers of VCF Southwest will talk about the upcoming show this Saturday, May 11 at 6:30PM EDT : https://youtube.com/live/Y_4wr-Bml5M?feature=share More info on the show vcfsw.org Enjoy! Jeff Brace

1 year, 11 months

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Re: Random items on Pascal #4

by Fred Cisin

At NCC - Anaheim, I bought John Draper lunch (I never exercised with him) for a quick consultation about P-system directory structure. I added some P-system formats into XenoCopy a week later.

1 year, 11 months

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GEM95 cable

by Bill Degnan

I have a cable with two heads on one end and a rj45 phone connector on the other end. On the two-headed side is a 25-pin ( serial female RS232 ?) and 9-pin (serial female RS232 ?) The 25 pin adapter has a GEM95 sticker on it. What was this cable used for? BIll

1 year, 11 months

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DOS p-System Pascal: (Was: Saga of CP/M)

by John

> Pascal never really made it on the microcomputer platform did it? > I can be convinced otherwise but it seems like microcomputing Pascal > was more of a staging environment for then upload into a production > mainframe/mini Pascal was the language of choice over at Apple in the original MacOS days, and as Mike has noted Turbo Pascal was popular enough on the PC; it was more, I think, that the UCSD-style language-environment-as-OS paradigm never caught on in the microcomputer world. Early consumer micros of course had ROM BASIC, but once you got past that to a reasonably full-featured operating system, there was no compelling reason for it to be tightly coupled to one particular language/compiler when it could just as easily treat compilers as Yet Another Program and support arbitrarily many.

1 year, 11 months

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DEC Qbus/Massbus?

by W2HX

Was there ever a massbus controller card for qbus systems? 73 Eugene W2HX My Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@w2hx/videos

1 year, 11 months

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Re: Random items on Pascal #6

by Fred Cisin

OK This seems to be the one that the list choked on (possibly due to special quote characters? On Thu, May 9, 2024, 2:07 AM david barto via cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > At Ken Bowles retirement from UCSD (Ken was the lead of the UCSD Pascal > Project) he related a story that IBM came to UCSD after being "rejected" > by DR to see if the Regents of the University would license UCSD Pascal (the > OS and the language) to IBM for release on the new hardware IBM was > developing. The UC Regents said "no" > He was quite sad that history took the very different course. well, it wasn't quite a "rejected by DR". But, the culture clash certainly did strengthen IBM's desire for CP/M alternatives. And, they DID cut a deal with Softech/UCSD-Regents to have UCSD P-system as one of the original operating systems for the 5150. The "very different course" of the market going with CP/M and MS-DOS, rather than P-System, was due to many factors. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin(a)xenosoft.com

1 year, 11 months

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Re: FWIW CD & DVD demagnetization [was: Double Density 3.5" Floppy Disks]

by D. Resor

Next they'll want silver oxygen free plated plumbing and sewage pipes in their homes. Silver plated toilet seats? Walls insulated with Palladium coated corn silk threads? Seems the subject has really gone astray?.... Lions, Tigers and Bears oh my! 😲) Don Resor -----Original Message----- From: Sellam Abraham via cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2024 7:01 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> Cc: Sellam Abraham <sellam.ismail(a)gmail.com> Subject: [cctalk] Re: FWIW CD & DVD demagnitizitation [was: Double Density 3.5" Floppy Disks] Why stop there? A truly dedicated audiophile would run new pure silver electrical wire through the walls directly to the breaker box. Then you gotta upgrade to the breaker box that was disinfected from transient spirits through an exorcism, and then special 24K solid gold-contact breakers in inert nylon housings. Sellam

1 year, 11 months

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Re: Random items on Pascal #5

by Fred Cisin

UCSD P-system could only allocate contiguous disk space. So a disk that had become "checkerboarded" by writing and deletng files had to be defragmented, using a spplied utility called "Crunch". Was that adequately protected against catastrophes caused by interruption? Softech and UCSD Regents filed trademark registration for "XenoFile", and listed it as a product, but as near as I can tell, NEVER sent out any copies. (February 1987, I went to the Patent and Trademark Office outside of Washington, Dc, and researched some trademarks, in preparation for my trademark registration) They also announced a "universal disk format" for ALL machines, but never had a clue about how to do anything compatible with FM, MFM, and GCR.

1 year, 11 months

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Re: Random items on Pascal #2

by Fred Cisin

> The SAGE II that had native Pascal (68000) was > not a popular machine. Waterloo Pascal on the SuperPet....Pascal never > really made it on the microcomputer platform did it? Bob Wallace (Microsoft's tenth employee) wrote the Micorsoft MS-DOS Pascal compiler. He told me not to use the runtime library, which was also then included with Microsoft Fortran, etc. Later, he left Microsoft when an appointment became necessary to talk to billg, and formed "Quicksoft", selling PC-Write (a significant player in "shareware")

1 year, 11 months

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Re: Random items on Pascal #1

by Fred Cisin

Did not make it to the list, so I am breaking it up and re-sending it in pieces > Without doing the research before asking, there was the UCSD p-System > Pascal for IBM PC which came out very early in the history of the IBM PC. > It was not very popular. In the original 5150 launch (August 1981), the operating systems announced were availability of PC-DOS and/or UCSD P-System, and CP/M-86 was "coming soon".

1 year, 11 months

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Altair 8800 50th birthday...

by William Sudbrink

Based on what I have read, along with a few discussions I have had with people involved in the early S-100 "scene" around now is the 50th birthday (or conception day) of the Altair 8800. Certainly, next year could properly be called its 50th birthday. Anyway, I'm thinking about "painting the show blue" with Altairs and IMSAIs for the next few vintage computer festivals. Anyone else interested? Bill S. -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com

1 year, 11 months

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Last Buy notification for Z80 (Z84C00 Product line)

by Peter Schow

In case you missed it, Zilog has issued a Last Buy notification for the Z80: https://www.mouser.com/PCN/Littelfuse_PCN_Z84C00.pdf Looks like Mouser and Digikey still have decent inventory of them.

1 year, 11 months

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Recordak Magnaprint Microfiche Printer Free

by Don

Hello all, I have a Recordak Magnaprint microfiche printer/reader. It appears to be in decent cosmetic condition but I am not sure if it works or if it is complete. This thing used photosensitized paper and some kind of developer to make positive copies of microfiche reels or sheets. https://archive.org/details/TNM_Recordak_Magnaprint_Reader_microfilm_reader… I don't have space to keep this thing, but I would like to save it from being scrapped if possible. Free for pickup near Buffalo, NY. Contact me if interested! Don

1 year, 11 months

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What to take to a vintage computer show

by brad＠techtimetraveller.com

Just reaching out to anyone who has exhibited at a vintage computing festival before. After years of only being able to watch others attend the ones that happen in the US, we are finally getting one in BC here. Super excited. I was invited both to speak and to exhibit, and they even got me two tables which is awesome. Like, how do you prepare for these things? What things that you didn't think of going into your first show do you wish you had? I have a pretty eclectic collection, and some really rare stuff (like my Mark-8s) that I'd love to bring but am hesitant about due to the risks of transportation damage and theft (from the car mostly, not the convention itself). Just trying to decide what to bring and how focused to be in terms of theme. Brad

1 year, 11 months

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Re: Double Density 3.5" Floppy Disks

by Don R

Maybe I need one of these power cords for my Monroe-Litton 1830 aka Compucorp 485. It might make the calculations more precise? ;) Don Resor Sent from someone's iPhone > On May 6, 2024, at 8:55 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > > On 5/6/24 20:25, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > https://www.ebay.com/itm/134706639303 >> include a basic feature for rewinding rental DVDs before returning them. > Of course, you need a pure silver AC cable for those: > > https://www.ebay.com/itm/115970049389 > > --Chuck

1 year, 11 months

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Re: Altair 8800 50th birthday...

by Smith, Wayne

"November 19, 1974" is what is written on the "Date of Publication of This Issue" line in Copyright "Form B" (for periodicals) used at the time. The form then states "The copyright law defines the 'date of publication' as '. . . the earliest date when copies . . . were placed on sale, sold or publicly distributed." The form is then signed pursuant to 17 U.S.C. sec. 506(e), which provided for a substantial fine in the event that any false representation was made on the form. There is no reason to doubt the date of publication in the notice. In fact, there is every reason to believe it is correct. In the magazine business it is a routine business practice to have actual publication occur months prior to the "cover date" the publisher places on the magazine. The reason for this is so that the magazines could remain on the newsstands for at least a few months without appearing to be stale. This is particularly the case with magazines published on a monthly cadence. Just as a check, I looked up the publication date of the January 1975 issue of Playboy. According to the copyright registration, it was November 20, 1974. > Date: Mon, 6 May 2024 01:27:28 +0000 (UTC) > From: ED SHARPE <couryhouse(a)aol.com> > Subject: [cctalk] Re: Altair 8800 50th birthday... > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> > Cc: Sellam Abraham <sellam.ismail(a)gmail.com> > Message-ID: <1726519925.3966543.1714958848839(a)mail.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > Perhaps After doing the layout work in the November it was perhaps > copyrighted Immediately during layout But it did not ship Until January > Think! back in those days things did not instantly happen and we're instantly > shipped Ed# > > Sent from AOL on Android > > On Fri, May 3, 2024 at 7:09 AM, Sellam Abraham via > cctalk<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: On Fri, May 3, 2024, 1:28 AM Smith, > Wayne via cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> > wrote: > > > I looked up the Jan. 1975 issue of Popular Electronics in the > > Copyright Office's Periodicals Digest. It was published on Nov. 19, > > 1974 if you are looking for an actual anniversary date. > > > > The January issue was certainly not available in November of 1974. > > When did it actually get sent out and start showing up in people's mailboxes? > > Sellam >

1 year, 11 months

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Vintage Computer and Technology Swap Meet - Wall, NJ - June 22, 2024

by Jeffrey Brace

Same place as last year in the big parking lot across from Brookdale and down the street from InfoAge Science and History Museums. We have the Southern Monmouth County Firehouse museum selling food and drinks in the middle. This is a fundraiser for both museums (VCF and Firehouse museum) which are both part of InfoAge. All the info is here: https://vcfed.org/vcf-swap-meet/ Thanks! Jeff Brace VCF Mid-Atlantic Event Manager Vintage Computer Federation is a 501c3 charity

1 year, 11 months

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Re: Double Density 3.5" Floppy Disks

by Bill Gunshannon

On 5/6/2024 2:28 PM, Wayne S via cctalk wrote: > You do need a very strong magnet. I’ve put 3.5 floppies on top of > a mag tape demagnitizer ( not technically called that, but you know > what i mean) and it had no effect at all. I could still read them fine > in my pc. I surmised that the magnetic field generated was not strong > enough to get through the plastic disk shield. Gave up after that. And yet, I have a cheap Radio Shack tape degauzer and it erases 3.5" disks just fine. I do it all the time whenever I have one that refuses to reformat. Quick pass over the degauzer and they usually work fine. If not, time to toss them. As for 720K disks I bought a box of new ones (12 boxes actually) several years ago on eBay and expect they will out last me. Especially now that I am moving everything to Goteks. bill

1 year, 11 months

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Netflix Series: American Conspiracy/Octopus Murders

by Jonathan Katz

Hey everyone, My better half recently turned this on and also a podcast with the creator/director. They mentioned they visited "someone" with a working VAX 11/780 to get b-roll footage for the movie. Which one of us was it? :D In all seriousness, it would be fun to try and get a vintage copy of the PROMIS software running on something (I assume it was VAX/VMS in its original incarnation, but many other screenshots show SNA/greenscreen implementations.) Cheers, all! -- -Jon +44 7792 149029

1 year, 11 months

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Re: Altair 8800 50th birthday...

by Smith, Wayne

I looked up the Jan. 1975 issue of Popular Electronics in the Copyright Office's Periodicals Digest. It was published on Nov. 19, 1974 if you are looking for an actual anniversary date. -W > On Saturday, April 27th, 2024 at 07:14, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk < > cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > > Magazine cover january, and into 1975 the revolution. So I'd say > > > all > > > > I had that magazine. Wish I hadn't thrown it away oh so many years > > ago. > > This one? > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://archive.org/details/197511PopularE > lectronics__;!!AQdq3sQhfUj4q8uUguY!jsVD6bkUUnjpF4d8AeRUKyiCW6qk8LAqFsj > dYW5cjAK-kOsMp32O4FfrPI5l1lqnTNp6sXQsHpX35FsPAzYDMIHhl-uy-NSC5w$ > > The Doctor [412/724/301/703/415/510] > WWW: > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://drwho.virtadpt.net/__;!!AQdq3sQhfU > j4q8uUguY!jsVD6bkUUnjpF4d8AeRUKyiCW6qk8LAqFsjdYW5cjAK-kOsMp32O4FfrPI5l > 1lqnTNp6sXQsHpX35FsPAzYDMIHhl-u9z1M8kw$ > Don't be mean. You don't have to be mean > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://vintagecomputer.net/altair-poptronics.c… (Jan and Feb)

1 year, 11 months

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Re: 5,34 Petaflop System Cheyenne

by Ali

>Fairly sure you could find something to run Doom >that uses less than 1.7MWBut what's the point of buying this monstrosity if not to play Doom? It is like SEVEN years old. ;)

1 year, 11 months

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CP/M

by Murray McCullough

I came across an article that said CP/M came out in April 1974. I remember using this OS in the microcomputer world in the late 70’s; early 80’s. It came from PL/M, (Programming Language for Microcomputers) later renamed CP/M(Control Program for Microcomputers). I’m not sure what its legacy is though as far as I can recall it was wrapped up in litigation for quite some time. It was used in the 8-bit world but not sure what it's role was in the early PC world! Happy computing, Murray 🙂

1 year, 11 months

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IBM 360

by Murray McCullough

I had not realized the IBM 360 was 60 yrs. old this month. I worked on such a computer in the late 60s in Toronto. What one could do with 8 Kbytes of ram was remarkable! Happy computing Murray 🙂

1 year, 11 months

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Diablo Model 40 Series - Disturbed head positioning

by Dominique Carlier

Hello everyone I need your help to identify an issue on my Diablo Model 40 Series. I don't know where to look, it's so vast ! Here's the problem: When RUN is activated, the drive begins its spin up and simultaneously deploys the heads (normal) but instead of stabilizing them, the Head Positioner receives a burst of reverse/forward micro signals. The heads "vibrate", this creates an audible frequency "BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR", and it is infinite, the heads are never loaded and the drive never reaches READY. At first I thought that perhaps the track zero sensor was defective or something of the same order but when I disengage RUN mode, the drive unloads the heads and they should be in a fixed position, here they continue to reverse/forward but more slowly than in RUN mode. Because the heads continues to mess around even in unload mode, this a priori excludes alignment problems. Here is a video of that issue: https://youtu.be/HzzxLnSdEOg Other information, if I cut the power while the drive is in RUN mode, it does not do an emergency retraction of the heads, related problem? I was hoping for a power supply problem but all the voltages and even on the main board cage seem ok (with a multimeter). If one of you had already encountered this problem of lack of head stabilization and continuous reverse/forward on this type of drive? Thanks ! Dominique

1 year, 11 months

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MS-DOS source code

by wrcooke＠wrcooke.net

Some may find this interesting. Microsoft has released the source for MS-DOS versions 1.25, 2, and 4. https://github.com/microsoft/MS-DOS Will Grownups never understand anything by themselves and it is tiresome for children to be always and forever explaining things to them, Antoine de Saint-Exupery in The Little Prince

1 year, 11 months

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Re: Diablo Model 40 Series - Disturbed head positioning

by Dominique Carlier

Hi Don ! Good suggestion, these microswitches are used to indicate that the heads are completely retracted. Unfortunately, that would have been too simple, both microswitches work perfectly :-/ On 30/04/2024 19:43, D. Resor wrote: > What is the purpose of the two microswitches seen in the upper right > of the video view? > > Could one or both of those be intermittent? Have they been tested for > continuity/intermittence with an analog VOM? > > Don Resor > > -----Original Message----- > From: Dominique Carlier via cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> > Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2024 8:47 AM > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> > Cc: Dominique Carlier <dce(a)skynet.be> > Subject: [cctalk] Diablo Model 40 Series - Disturbed head positioning > > Hello everyone > > I need your help to identify an issue on my Diablo Model 40 Series. I > don't know where to look, it's so vast ! > > Here's the problem: > When RUN is activated, the drive begins its spin up and simultaneously > deploys the heads (normal) but instead of stabilizing them, the Head > Positioner receives a burst of reverse/forward micro signals. The > heads "vibrate", this creates an audible frequency > "BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR", and it is infinite, the heads are never loaded > and the drive never reaches READY. > > At first I thought that perhaps the track zero sensor was defective or > something of the same order but when I disengage RUN mode, the drive > unloads the heads and they should be in a fixed position, here they > continue to reverse/forward but more slowly than in RUN mode. > Because the heads continues to mess around even in unload mode, this a > priori excludes alignment problems. > > Here is a video of that issue: > > https://youtu.be/HzzxLnSdEOg > > Other information, if I cut the power while the drive is in RUN mode, > it does not do an emergency retraction of the heads, related problem? > I was hoping for a power supply problem but all the voltages and even > on the main board cage seem ok (with a multimeter). > > If one of you had already encountered this problem of lack of head > stabilization and continuous reverse/forward on this type of drive? > > Thanks ! > > Dominique >

1 year, 11 months

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Looking for Lomas board manual

by Richard Cini

All — I mostly lurk on the list now, but I am looking for a manual for the Lomas LightningOne 8086 CPU board. There doesn’t seem to be a good archive of manuals for the Lomas boards (and what’s out there is only partial). I have a project I’m working on with Lomas boards so looking to collect info, etc. Thanks! Rich -- Rich Cini http://cini.classiccmp.org

1 year, 11 months

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Looking for Lomas docs

by Richard Cini

All — I lurk mostly on the list now, but I’m looking for a copy of the manual for the Lomas LightningOne 8086 CPU card and schematics. It doesn’t seem to be anywhere on-line so if someone has a copy they’d be willing to scan, it’d be greatly appreciated. Thanks! Rich -- Rich Cini http://cini.classiccmp.org

1 year, 11 months

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CDC and IBM Schoonschip

by James Liu

Hi, As some of you may recall, a few years ago I asked for assistance reading a 9 track tape containing IBM S/360 source for Martinus Veltman's computer algebra program, Schoonschip (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schoonschip). With Chuck's assistance, we recovered all the code from the tape. After working with the principals involved, I am pleased to announce that the source code is now publicly available at: https://vsys.physics.lsa.umich.edu/ Actually, I was always more interested in the original CDC 6600 source code, as that is the more historically significant code. While that was not contained on the 9 track tape, I did receive a copy from the Veltman family, and that is also available from the above website. I have limited experience with big iron, but I had very good success getting Schoonschip compiled and running on dtCyber. Veltman also provided example Schoonschip programs (YNGLING), and as far as I can tell they run perfectly in CDC Schoonschip on dtCyber. However, I have not been fully successful in getting IBM Schoonschip to run on hercules under OS/360 MVT. The main issue I had was that the Fortran part of Schoonschip uses REAL*16, which apparently requires the H extended Fortran compiler that does not seem to be freely available. I did patch the Fortran code to avoid extended precision and managed to get Schoonschip running, but it would sometimes crash on some input files. I do not know if that is a problem with my patches or an actual bug in the original code (as the IBM version of Schoonschip was still a work in progress at the time development stopped). In any case, anyone who is interested is welcome to have their own go at the code. The third evolution of Schoonschip (m68k code, which was written after Veltman came to the University of Michigan) is also available at the same website. - jim -- James T. Liu, Professor of Physics 3409 Randall Laboratory, 450 Church Street, Ann Arbor, MI 48109-1040 Tel: 734 763-4314 Fax: 734 763-2213 Email: jimliu(a)umich.edu

1 year, 11 months

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Charles Stross, replay the bubble of 1995, alt history plus retrocomp

by Tomasz Rola

Well, if you are into this kind of stuff (I am)... Stross is an s-f author, formerly a programmer (ages ago but I think it still shows - perhaps he secretly writes his own tools in Perl) and he has a blog. This time, he explores the idea that internet "bub" delivered on its promises, rather than sucking investors up. http www.antipope.org charlie/blog-static/2024/04/the-radiant-future-of-1995.html Of course, readers make comments, so it gets a bit more interesting. -- Regards, Tomasz Rola -- ** A C programmer asked whether computer had Buddha's nature. ** ** As the answer, master did "rm -rif" on the programmer's home ** ** directory. And then the C programmer became enlightened... ** ** ** ** Tomasz Rola mailto:tomasz_rola@bigfoot.com **

1 year, 11 months

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Re: Z80 vs other microprocessors of the time.

by Robert Feldman

The Otrona Attache 8:16 had a Z80A and an 8086 on a daughter card. Bob

1 year, 11 months

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Fwd: CG14 and 16bit colour

by David Brownlee

In case anyone is interested in poking their cg14/sx in new and exciting ways :-p ---------- Forwarded message --------- From: Michael <macallan1888(a)gmail.com> Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2024 at 07:55 Subject: CG14 and 16bit colour To: <port-sparc(a)netbsd.org> Hello, I did a lot of work on the cgfourteen, sx and xf86-video-suncg14 drivers, one thing I didn't expect was people asking for 8bit acceleration in X, mostly because with a 4MB cg14 you're limited to 1152x900 in 24bit colour, in 8bit you could go all the way to 1920x1200. So I wrote code for that. Looking at the headers files, it looks like at least the DAC supports 16bit colour as well, which would allow 1600x1200 in more than 8bit colour. Getting SX to deal with 16bit quantities is not difficult, at least for basic stuff like copy, fill and ROP operations. Xrender would be more difficult since there is no easy way to separate / re-unite the colour channels of a 16bit pixel. For 32bit it's trivial, SX has instructions to split 32bit accesses to four registers, even lets you pick which byte to take. So we wouldn't get xrender acceleration. Then again, we don't have that in 8bit either. The DAC is an Analog Devices ADV7152, and I just found the datasheet - in 16bit mode we get R5G5B5, nothing unusual here. That said, cg14 seems to use the DAC only for gamma correction, we don't mess with it at all even when switching to 8bit, so who knows what exactly cg14 feeds it when we set pixel mode to 16bit. Shouldn't be difficult to figure out though. I guess what I'm getting at is - does anyone particularly care about this? I don't mind doing this as yet another Just Because I Can(tm) project but if anyone cares I'd welcome their input. have fun Michael

1 year, 11 months

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PDP 8 / 11 via Raspberry Pi

by Tarek Hoteit

Mike, any tips or guidelines for running an emulated PDP on a Raspberry Pi ? Regards, Tarek Hoteit > On Apr 21, 2024, at 08:08, Mike Katz via cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > > Well my PDP-8 was built in 1974 and is still running (with careful maintenance). My PiDP-8/I has been up and running continuously with a Raspberry PI 3B running it for about 5 years now. My PiDP-11 has been up and running with a PI-4B for more than 4 years continuously. > > Though I agree with your comment that the PDP-8 was built to last (just ignore the disintegrated foam used between the motherboard and the case or on the case top) I have PCs that are more than 10 years old that are still running. > > As for the RP2040 being cheap crap, I beg to differ with you. It is a solid chip, produced in 10s of millions at least. And, I would bet, a better quality chip than your Z-80, if due only to improved IC manufacturing technologies. > > Just because it's old doesn't make it good. I worked on a 32KHz 4 Bit CPU (about 20 years ago) where the development hardware was very unstable and the tool chain not a whole lot better. > > Early Microsoft and Lattice C compilers for the PC were buggy as hell. If you want I can list a few bugs from each of them in another thread. > > One of the biggest features of the Z-80, the extra register set, was rarely used in open source software in order to maintain compatibility with the 8080. > > Some of the early Z-80 CP/M tools did not work because they were derived from 8080 tools. After time the tools got better. That is the case with any piece of software. If it doesn't become obsolete and if maintained it will get better over time. > > > >> On 4/21/2024 1:09 AM, ben via cctalk wrote: >>> On 2024-04-20 8:33 p.m., Mike Katz via cctalk wrote: >>> For anything more sophisticated than your coffee pot the RP2040 from Raspberry Pie is a fantastic little chip, dual core 133 MHz Cortex M0+ with 8 PIO engines, 264K of RAM, ADC, UART, SPI, I2C all for under a dollar. I designed a fully functional RP2040 with 16 Mb flash for under $2.00. In large enough quantities that's encroaching on 8 bit PIC territory at over 1000 times the memory and CPU power. >> >> I am wishing for a Quality Product, cheap crap is not always better. >> USB comes to mind. >> 256Kb ram is only 32K 64 bit words. Cache memory never works. >> My $5 internet toaster, just exploded after 3 days. >> So what? Just buy the new model that works with windows 12. >> Download a buggy new tool chain. The Z80 tools worked. >> >> >> The PDP8 was built to last. 50+ years and going strong. >> NOT the crappy PI PDP-8 or PDP-10. I give it 2 years max. >> Now a PI style computer with compact FLASH x 2, NO USB >> and 2 MEG ram , real serial and printer ports that will work >> in a noisy industrial setting, would be quite usefull. >> I'd pay even $3 for it. :) >> >> >> >> >

1 year, 11 months

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Apple II

by Adam Thornton

Mostly to Bill, but also anyone else hanging out here who's got a surfeit of 8-bit Apple stuff: If you're planning on selling the Apple II, and it's not a ][+, I'd be interested in buying. Not, perhaps, at optimistic eBay prices, but I have a lot of ][+s and //es, most of them in working shape, some of which are parts machines; however, I don't have either a II or a //c . Also happy to trade if I've got things you want. I don't have anything super-exotic, but feel free to HMU and ask. Adam

1 year, 11 months

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Drum memory on pdp11's? Wikipedia thinks so....

by Christopher Zach

Was reading the Wikipedia article on Drum memories: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drum_memory#External_links And came across this tidbit. As late as 1980, PDP-11/45 machines using magnetic core main memory and drums for swapping were still in use at many of the original UNIX sites. Any thoughts on what they are talking about? I could see running the RS03/RS04 on a 11/45 with the dual Unibus configured so the RS03's talk to memory directly instead of the Unibus, but that's not quite the same as true drum memory. Closest thing I remember was the DF32 on a pdp8 which could be addressed by word as opposed to track/sector. Thoughts? C

1 year, 11 months

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Re: Wang Laboratories calculators (Was Bowmar handheld calculator)

by Rick Bensene

Fred Cisin wrote > In 1970 or 1971, Wang had a tiny desktop calculator that had a card > reader! The card reader was an external peripheral, that clam-shell > closed on individual port-a-punch cards (perforated normal sized > > cards using every other column) It was actually available before 1970. It was Wang Laboratories' 300-Series of electronic calculators. The "tiny" part was the visible part, which was just the keyboard and Nixie tube display. It connected to an electronics package which was usually put under a desk or sometimes even quite a distance from the keyboard/display unit. The punched card programming peripheral sat between the keyboard/display and the calculator electronics package, and effectively "pressed keys" on the keyboard designated by the punches on the card, at high speed. On all but the 370 and 380 keyboard devices, the programs punched into the cards were simple linear programs without test & branch capability, or looping. Looping could be manually done by just restarting the program at the beginning, and continuing to do so until the answer converged on the final result. There were also the somewhat larger 360KT and 360KR keyboards that had built-in diode ROM programs that calculated trig functions by sending the keycodes to the electronics package to carry out the operations necessary to perform the trig functions. There were a number of different electronics packages that were available, with the low-end model (the 300E) having access to only the basic four math functions. The 310E added square root and x^2, the 320E added natural logarithm and e^x functions to the 310. The 360E added four store/recall memory registers along with the functions of the 320E. The last of the 300-series was the 362E electronics package that provided access to ten memory registers, each of which could be split in half to store two five-digit numbers, along with the math functions of the 360E. Then there were the SE type electronics packages. To my knowledge, there were the 310SE, 320SE, and 360SE. The SE electronics packages took the core calculating logic of the 310E/320E/360E and stuffed some multiplexing logic around it, allowing up to four keyboard/display units to be connected up to it that operated in a round-robin timesharing mode. The 370 Programmer Keyboard Unit included a similar punched card reader, but there was extra logic inside the keyboard that allowed conditional testing and branching capability. Up to four of these card readers could be daisy-chained to the 370 keyboard to allow programs up 320 steps. The program codes consumed 6 bits, so each column of the 40 column card (a standard IBM punched card, but with pre-scored holes every other column) could contain two instructions, allowing 80 instruction steps per card. The 380 Programmer Keyboard Unit was similar to the 370 in terms of capability, but instead of using punched cards for "storing" the program, the program steps were recorded on what was essentially an 8-Track tape cartridge that was inserted into a slot on the back panel of the 380. The tape in the cartridge was in a loop, and was positioned by a rather noisy ratcheting system akin to a stepping relay that moved the tape forward. Branching was accomplished by moving the tape forward until the target location was found. Depending on where the branch was targeted, the tape could have to move to the end of the program, then continue moving until the beginning of the program is found, then searching for the loop target. This operation could consume quite a bit of time. The tape cartridge allowed for considerably larger programs, but was quite slow in terms of tape positioning for branching and looping. The initial announcement of the 300-series calculator occurred in 1965, with the 300E/310E/320E electronics units, and 300K, 310K, 320K keyboard units, along with the CP-1 punched card reader, of which up to four could be connected daisy-chain style between the keyboard unit and the electronics unit. Later the 360E electronics package was added, and the 360K keyboard unit for the 360E added keys to access the four memory registers. A bit later, the 360KT and 360KR trig keyboards were introduced, with the 360KT accepting arguments and results in Degrees, and the 360KR in Radians. The 310SE and 320SE four-user electronics packages came out sometime in 1967. The 360SE four-user electronics package came out in 1968, and also the 370 Programmer and 371 card reader as well as the 380 Programmer. Lastly, sometime in late '68 or early '69, the 362E electronics package came out, and a 362K keyboard (which was identical to a 360K keyboard but with different keycap legends for the memory keys) was introduced with the 362E. The 362E marked the end of the 300-Series. There were a lot of peripheral devices that were available for the 370 and 380 programmers, including a Teletype interface that connected a Model 33ASR Teletype to the calculator, with ability to accept input from the Teletype and print output to the Teletype, as well as being able to read program steps from the Teletype's punched paper tape reader, add-on memory units for more register storage. There was also an Item Counter that connected between any of the keyboard units and the electronics package that would count depressions of various keys on an electromechanical counter to aid in calculations such as averages, etc. There was also a simple column printer that would provide printed output of the number in the calculator's display that was also connected between any keyboard unit and the electronics package. A specially modified IBM Selectric typewriter that had Wang-made solenoids and linkages to actuate the keys and functions of the typewriter was also available that could print output from calculations. There are also some peripherals that could be used to interface the calculators to external digital devices such as test and measurement equipment made by other manufacturers of such equipment. Wang also would OEM the electronics package guts to other manufacturers. One company even made a general purpose computer system that used one of the 300-series electronics packages as its arithmetic unit. Wang also offered a modular computer system called the 4000 (originally named the 390, but was changed before introduction) that used a standardized bus structure to connect the logic of an electronics package as the arithmetic unit, along with other modules that would contain storage, programming capability, and I/O interfaces. For quite some time, Wang Labs were the only calculator manufacturer that provided built-in calculation of logarithmic functions that were /not/ pre-coded sequences of keypresses that were executed like a program, but were actually hard-coded algorithms in the calculator's logic that provided almost instantaneous results. Dr. Wang invented the logic to do this, and got a patent for it. It was quite ingenious, and was able to calculate logarithms to twelve digit accuracy using only addition/subtraction and shift operations, and do so in an average of about 300 milliseconds. The weird part about the calculators in the 300-series is that they used logarithms to perform multiplication and division (which simplified the operations into addition of logarithms of the operands, then an anti-logarithm to get the result of a multiplication, and subtraction of the logarithm of the second operand from the logarithm of the first operand, followed by an anti-logarithm to derive the result. The issue with this is that most logarithms are not able to be 100% accurately represented in the 14 digit (10 digits displayed) capacity of the logic, and as a result, some multiplication and division operations that would normally result in an integer answer providing an answer that was not quite accurate. For example, 3 X 3 would equal 8.999999998, but a bit of additional logic for multiply and divide would round the result up to 9.000000000 . In some cases, the error was enough that the rounding wouldn't give the integer answer expected, though. All of the answers provided, even with slight errors due to imperfect representation of the logarithms were within most tolerances for engineering and scientific calculations. The logic of the machines was completely transistorized, using diode-transistor gates. No integrated circuits anywhere. The working memory of the calculators was stored in a magnetic core array in the electronics package. The electronics packages consisted of a backplane (hand-wired in earlier machines, later on a circuit board) with a bunch of small (roughly 3x5-inch) circuit boards packed with components. The power supply was a conventional linear power supply with Zener/transistor regulation. The basic keyboard units just contained a board with transistor drivers for the Nixie tube displays, and diode encoding for the keys on the keyboard. The key switches were standard micro-switch units with a ring pressed onto the key-stalk that would press down on the actuator for the micro-switch. Key travel was very short, but had a positive "click" as the micro-switch closed when the key was depressed. The 300-Series electronic calculators put Wang Laboratories on the map as a leader in higher-end electronic calculators, and made a fortune for the company and its shareholders. In 1968, when HP introduced the 9100A, Dr. An Wang, the founder and CEO of Wang Labs was secretly shown a production version of the 9100A before it was introduced. The presentation of the machine was provided to Dr. Wang by Dave Hewlett, one of the founders of HP. When Dr. Wang saw what the HP 9100A could do, he was visibly shaken. When the presentation was over, he left the room saying "We've got to get to work", meaning that it was clear that the 300-Series was now completely obsoleted by the 9100A, and that Wang Labs had better get busy with a new generation of calculators to counter HP's amazing calculator that was much smaller, much more capable, had computer-like programming capability, and was still made only with transistors and magnetic core memory. Wang did not have their counter to the HP 9100A/B calculators ready until mid-1970, the Wang 700-Series. The 700-Series calculators were serious machines, very computer-like, with large amounts of core memory, very high speed using DTL and TTL small-scale integrated circuit logic, and large I/O expansion capabilities. They were a solid match for the HP 9100A/B, but by the time they got them to market, HP had already introduced it's 9800-series machines, which had the essence of a computer as their main logic, with a "program" that made the machines run. The computer at the heart of the 9800 series was a somewhat slimmed down, bit-serial version of HP's first minicomputer, the HP 2116A. The 9800-series were larger machines than the 9100A/B, but offered extensive expandability and I/O capabilities. The pinnacle of the 9800 series was the 9830A, which was programmable by the user in the BASIC computer language, and was more a computer than a calculator, but HP still considered it a calculator to make it more marketable because the term "computer" had connotations of being a very expensive piece of capital equipment, while a calculator was basically an expense item. You can learn more about the Wang 300-Series calculators by going to https://oldcalculatormuseum.com/calcman.html#MFG-WANG . There is also information on HP's 9100B, as well as most of the 9800-series that can be found by scrolling up on that same page, as well as many other electronic calculators exhibited in the Old Calculator Museum website, as well as physically in the Old Calculator Museum. Rick Bensene The Old Calculator Museum https://oldcalculatormuseum.com Beavercreek, Oregon USA P.S. Some of the dates above may not be exactly correct, and there may be some other minor errors or missing information because I typed this strictly straight out of my head without access to any reference material. The website has the correct information to the greatest extent possible given the amount of time that has elapsed since these machines were new.

1 year, 11 months

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Bomar 901b My wife found in my stuff. Is this as scarce at it seems?s,?

by ED SHARPE

Bomar 901b My wife found in my stuff. Is this as scarce at it seems?s,? Sent from AOL on Android

1 year, 11 months

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PDP-11 thingy. What is it?

by W2HX

Hi all, I picked up this PDP-11 thing. Can anyone help me understand what it is? Pictures are here: https://w2hx.com/?prefix=x/What-Is-It/PDP-11-Thing/ I could not find any designation on the backplane. It is a wire-wrappable backplane. I don't know if it is Qbus, unibus or whether it is 18 or 22 bit addressing (this is because I am a newbie in this area). There is only one board with a number on it, the M8189 board. I know that is a fonz-11 board. https://w2hx.com/?prefix=x/What-Is-It/PDP-11-Thing/M8189/ There are two other boards with no designation on them. Does anyone recognize them? This first one seems to have no "big chips" on it. But it has two connectors that seem to allow another dual-height card to be plugged into it. What is it? https://w2hx.com/?prefix=x/What-Is-It/PDP-11-Thing/Board1/ The second one has this 50 pin IDC connector on it. Anyone recognize it? https://w2hx.com/?prefix=x/What-Is-It/PDP-11-Thing/Board2/ Any info appreciated! 73 Eugene W2HX My Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@w2hx/videos

1 year, 11 months

8
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Re: Odd IBM mass storage systems

by Len Shustek

At 10:00 AM 4/13/2024, Paul Berger <phb.hfx(a)gmail.com> wrote: >The problem with a lot of these old machines was they relied on a lot of >electro-mechanical devices that would today be replaced by electronics >and a few simple actuators. These mechanical devices need to be >adjusted and maintained and have lots of parts to wear out. For a great example of 1950s electro-mechanical devices, check out this: https://www.computerhistory.org/collections/catalog/102740072 https://www.computerhistory.org/collections/catalog/102740069 "The First Magnetic Random Access Mass Memory with Interchangeable Media"

1 year, 12 months

1
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Borland Turbo C++ and Turbo Basic - Books and Manuals

by Mike Norris

Hello, Before I consign the following books to be recycled I thought I would ask if they are any use to anyone. I do not want anything for them except postage, but they are heavy so might be expensive to post from the UK. (These are the manuals only no software) Manuals Borland C++ V4 for Windows - Programmers Guide, User Guide, Library Ref, Debugger, DOS Ref, Library Ref Borland C++V2 Object Windows - Reference Guide, Programmers Guide Turbo C++ V3 Object Windows - User Guide, Reference Guide Turbo C++ V3 User Guide Turbo C++ - Library Ref, Getting Started, Programmers Guide, User Guide Resource Workshop Turbo Assembler V2 (5 books in set) Turbo Basic Books The Waite Group Turbo C Bible Developing C++ Software Additional I would like £5 beer money for this one please! Writing Open VMS Alpha Device Drivers in C - Margie Sherlock/Leonard Szubowicz Regards Mike Norris

1 year, 12 months

10
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HP 9825A version of HPL / Roms

by Andre Lewis

Howdy all! I'm the new owner if one of the coolest "Calculators" HP ever made. Everything generally works but I would need a new capstan (rubber is now sticky) to use with the tape cartridge. I am running into a hard time tracking down information on using it though, so if anyone can help fill in some gaps, that would be great! I'm looking for: - A manual for HPL, the language used to calculate. Things like for loops don't seem to work, but 'dsp' 'gto' and variable assignment do. - Manuals for any and all of the cartridges, and how to use them - Ideas on replacing the capstan - Ideas on refurbing the tapes (there's a rubber band equivalent to drive the tape on both sides, these have lost their stretch) - Specs for the I/O, as I would love to make custom I/O for it. I would also love to be able to create new cartridges, but I'm not willing to sacrifice any of my existing cartridges to Reverse Engineer them. I have the Plotter / GPIO Cartridge, the Mateix cartridge and the Strings Advanced Programming. Trying to track down an Assembly cartridge or any others. Thanks! Any info is appreciated! ~ Andre

1 year, 12 months

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looking for HP 9836U color monitor

by Just Kant

Northeast US roughly.

1 year, 12 months

1
0
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oddity or just early 5160 mobo?

by Just Kant

I sort of doubt any of these boards were factory supplied this way, but the date codes on the ram in question are consistent with most other ics . the other banks contain chips that are months older, or newer. 64-256KB SYSTEM BOARD 18 TI gold capped 4164-20 chips in banks 0 and 1. Mix of Fujitsu, TI, NEC chips in banks 2 and 3. There are a half dozen numeric codes present on the board. I don't know what any signify.

1 year, 12 months

4
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Cleanup time again

by Bill Gunshannon

Time to dispose of some more of my stuff so it doesn't end up in the trash when my widow has to clear the house. Any interest in BA356-SBs? All with disks in them. And I have a decent stack of used RZs in caddies. I even still have 11 RZ28's still in the static bags. Would have to be someone close enough to pick them up here in the Poconos but I have seen a lot of postings from people in Eastern PA and north and middle NJ. Is it worth my taking the time to count up exactly what I have or would no one be interested in making an offer. They will not be going on eBay. Just for information, I have used these with PDP-11's with 3rd party SCSI modules, PC's with SCSI Cards and Ersatz-11 and even a Tandy Color Computer with a TC^3 SCSI card and NitrOS9. bill

1 year, 12 months

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Turbo Pascal Kermit for CP/M

by Martin.Hepperle＠dlr.de

Did you compile in memory or to disk? If you have little RAM, it might be advantageous to compile to disk, creating a .COM file. Martin

1 year, 12 months

2
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Turbo Pascal Kermit for CP/M

by Bill Gunshannon

I'm having bit of fun with my various CP/M systems but I ran into what I see as an interesting problem. I got Turbo Pascal on two systems. A TRS-80 model 4P running Montezuma Micro CP/M and a TRS-80 Model II running Pickles & Trout CP/M. I tried to compile the version of Kermit written for CP/M using Turbo Pascal. On both systems it runs out of memory and crashes in the same place. Surely the developers would have noticed this. Anybody here have any experience with this? bill

2 years

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This weekend: VCF East 2024 - April 12-14 (Wall, NJ)

by Jeffrey Brace

This year will be bigger than ever with lots of great exhibits, speakers, consignment, Atari Programming Classroom and Glitch Works workshop. VCF East takes place in Wall, NJ at InfoAge Science and History Museums (formerly Camp Evans). For more information: https://vcfed.org/events/vintage-computer-festival-east/ Tickets for VCF East (Eventbrite) <https://vcfeast.eventbrite.com/> – Non- VCF Members should use this link. Discounted tickets for VCF Members Only (VCF’s website) <https://vcfed.org/membership/event/info/?reset=1&id=18> – VCF members should use this link. To get the 20% discount you need to become a VCF member by Clicking Here <https://vcfed.org/membership/> Don't miss the show! Take care! Jeff Brace Vintage Computer Festival East Showrunner

2 years

1
0
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Seeking out Joe Rigdon / John Lawson

by Sellam Abraham

Has anyone communicated with or know a way to communicate with Joe Rigdon out of Florida? Most here should know him as an old-school ClassicCmp veteran. If anyone has any information at all on the whereabouts of Joe Rigdon, and for that matter John Lawson, please either reply here or to me privately as appropriate. Thank you. Sellam

2 years

5
11
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Problem with Dell Vostro 1700

by Van Snyder

I have a Dell Vostro. When I boot, the screen briefly flashes and then remains dark. I have another one on which the screen would stay lit for a minute or two, then go black. If I closed the lid and opened it, it would stay lit for a few more minutes, then go black again. I corrected that by replacing the backlight power supply. In this one, is the problem more likely a defective power supply for the backlight, or a defective backlight, or something else? Thanks, Van Snyder

2 years

7
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DEC VT340/330 ROM Cartridge

by Douglas Taylor

The DEC VT340 has a slot in the back of the terminal to insert a ROM cartridge. I can't find any description of what this DEC labeled ROM cartridge would do for you. I've seen them with V1.1 and V2.1 markings, does anyone remember what additional capabilities these ROM cartridge provide? Doug

2 years

4
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Re: oscilloscopes

by Guy Fedorkow

Vintage computer enthusiasts might want to keep track of where to find CRT-based analog oscilloscopes, for use as output devices. The early MIT and Lincoln Labs computers used D/A converters to steer and activate the beam on analog scopes to draw vector images. Working on Whirlwind simulation, we've been able to get this technique to work with "real" oscilloscopes, e.g., Tek 475, but we have not yet found a single DSO that has X/Y _and_ Z inputs (let alone the required phosphor fade). Myself, I have a couple scopes with backups, so I'm not in the market for another one. But others might consider the option... /guy fedorkow Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2024 22:33:38 +0000 From: Just Kant<kantexplain(a)protonmail.com> Subject: [cctalk] oscilloscopes To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <xVKPUUPAeHv0_Gdsaq0al3Lji6a5VLAX2wRSUo5YhZwiADr5zn171nRBM NxX-XE1ru7jPj1GFbu0aE3uBwUsVKxlU_XAYKX9B0x42zJZADc=(a)protonmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 I have more then I need. All the working ones are HP w/color crts, and as far as older, verifiably vintage tools (right down to the 680x0 processor in either) I have to admit I favor them as a brand. Call we an oddball, weird egg, badges I wear with pride. But who could resist the allure of the newer ultra portable, even handheld units (some with bandwidth or sampling rates to 50mhz). I'm a big cheapo. But there's no real reason to agonize over a 65 - 200$ or thereabouts acquisition. It's a bit tiring to wade through the piles of availability. I favor a desktop unit, larger screen (but not always, careful). But most of those need wall current I think? The convenience of a handheld battery powered unit obviously has it's benefits. I will always love and dote upon my color crt based HPs. But the damned things are so heavy, so unwieldy. Judy-Jude knocked my 54111d over, hit the paved floor, shook the house. And still works! Built to withstand an atomic bombardment.

2 years

14
26
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cheap boards for 16/32 bit apps

by Just Kant

Ifo you absolutely must run something old, yet don't want to deal with the complexities of modern emulation: https://www.ebay.com/itm/191322319264 - drivers, whatever is needed, likely to be included on floppy. Ask seller. Not sure what tbe form factor it is. Who cares, nail it to a board or the wall. https://www.ebay.com/itm/283869740055 - obviously a lot faster. 2nd cpu isn't necessary or necessarily beneficial, but it is mandatory (says me, don't be a plebe). Unlike the Intel S5000 series serverboards, this bad boy has a FLOPPY connector. Should boot dos. But I haven't owned 1 yet. Can't remember if I even tried to boot my s5000vsadimmr4 or whatever I had from a dos loaded boot cd. Just can't. But my board did boot Windows 2000. Not too shabby. No drivers or i/o plate with this though. Drivers for Win2k are on tne net. I even foumd a manual I think. Check with me if you have need. The Intel boards have support for Win2008. NOT this board afaik. If that matters to you. Serverboards of this gen/chipset have steemy hot ram. You can nail this to the wall also. But have a desk fan to keep it all cool.

2 years

1
0
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WTB: PSU for DEC PDP8F

by robinson＠tuberadio.com

Hi there, I need a power supply for my PDP8F computer. It is missing. The PDP8F 19" chassis box came in 3 different depths, 600 mm (PSU front to back) 370 mm (PSU across the back) 300 mm (PSU front to back) I need the shallow one, the 300 mm PSU front to back. Do you have one available, or know where I can get one please. Even if it is dead! regards ray

2 years

4
4
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Looking for an HP 9000/778 workstation B160/180

by Keith M

I'm looking for an HP 9000 Visualize workstation, like a B160L or B180L+. I'll be attending VCF East in a few weeks so might find one there. Has anyone used Cypress technology out of Clearwater, FL? It seems they provide a nice, fully configured to spec turnkey solution, but there's no doubt they charge for it. http://www.cypress-tech.com/ Any better HP-specific forums or references would be appreciated! Thanks

2 years

6
11
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oscilloscopes

by Just Kant

I have more then I need. All the working ones are HP w/color crts, and as far as older, verifiably vintage tools (right down to the 680x0 processor in either) I have to admit I favor them as a brand. Call we an oddball, weird egg, badges I wear with pride. But who could resist the allure of the newer ultra portable, even handheld units (some with bandwidth or sampling rates to 50mhz). I'm a big cheapo. But there's no real reason to agonize over a 65 - 200$ or thereabouts acquisition. It's a bit tiring to wade through the piles of availability. I favor a desktop unit, larger screen (but not always, careful). But most of those need wall current I think? The convenience of a handheld battery powered unit obviously has it's benefits. I will always love and dote upon my color crt based HPs. But the damned things are so heavy, so unwieldy. Judy-Jude knocked my 54111d over, hit the paved floor, shook the house. And still works! Built to withstand an atomic bombardment.

2 years

17
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The 8008

by Murray McCullough

I’ve read with great interest, over the past short while, a few interesting articles on the history of the Intel 8008(officially released in April 1972) as it was the forerunner of what was to become the personal computer industry. And done with less than 4000 transistors. I saw one at a computer shop/store in Toronto in the latter 1970s’ but had no idea the seminal role it was to play in microcomputer history. Happy computing! Murray 🙂

2 years

2
3
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Amoeba OS

by Bill Gunshannon

I know this is a real long shot but is there any chance someone has a copy of the original distribution of the Amoeba OS from the University in the Netherlands? Searching the web finds only the current version which runs on X86. I am looking for the original which also ran on Sparc and (of the most interest to me) the VAX. Remember when they said now that we had the web nothing would ever be lost again? :-( bill

2 years

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typical IC kits on Amazon and elsewhere

by Just Kant

Clearly all or virtually all chineseum, correct? That being the case, um, what type.of.quality can be expected? Some are fairly cheap. I guess thenworld isn't to be expected.

2 years

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Re: need a 5150 motherboard

by Gregory Beat

MTM Scientific (Clinton, MI) offered modern redrawn IBM PC 5150 base board and a Full Kit, at one time. https://www.mtmscientific.com/pc-retro.html While he is no longer selling separate blank 5150 boards, you could inquire about Gerbers. greg w9gb

2 years

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Re: need a 5150 motherboard

by Marvin Johnston

Just out of curiosity, what are you using this board for? The IBM 5150 uses at least three different mother boards, 16K, 256k, and I *think* 512K soldered in RAM. Each is expandable to 640K with 3rd sourced RAM boards. I should have (somewhere) at least one of each. I also have several 5150 complete units including keyboard (not so sure about the monitors.) Marvin > Message: 3 > Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2024 20:04:52 +0000 > From: Just Kant <kantexplain(a)protonmail.com> > Subject: [cctalk] Re: need a 5150 motherboard > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> > Message-ID: <qnfmO_296S6f9hb_wDChuncqBLx2N4gVhPm4tDG62TohL7PxE3kyLLi-K > GF90Qn4F1qIjDg9zX6isIYVyVHgohkRHHQfwzcnS3zKK8LHe0s=(a)protonmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > If you're willing to ship, I'll offer 30$ total. But it has to be IBM. > > Sent with Proton Mail secure email. > > I have one at Kennett Classic for sale, I think it's $20. I believe it's > an original IBM, but it may be a close clone. Untested. > b >

2 years

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stack of Tab books for sale

by Just Kant

Electronics, robotics, lasers. 10 in all. Overall comdition 6 or so out of 10. 50$ + shipping. NJ.

2 years

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need a 5150 motherboard

by Just Kant

The board itself, including the traces, has to be in good shape. Don' t care about it's functionality, or even if chips are missing. An actual IBM product, regardless of revision. Might consider an entire 5150 box. NJ. Sent with [Proton Mail](https://proton.me/) secure email.

2 years

1
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Re: Amoeba OS

by Bill Gunshannon

On 3/28/2024 7:29 PM, Alexander Schreiber via cctalk wrote: > On Thu, Mar 28, 2024 at 05:02:10PM +0000, Alessandro Mazzini via cctalk wrote: >> Sorry if I intrude... now is no more possible to obtain hobbyist licenses for vms ?? > > Not for OpenVMS/VAX, that stopped more than a year ago. IIRC you _can_ > get something like[1] it for OpenVMS/amd64 from VMS Software. > > The only legal[0] workaround for VMS on VAX is to go back all the way > before LMF was introduced which IIRC means running VMS 4.4 and nothing > newer. > > Sad and mildly irritating, but nothing we can do about it. > > Kind regards, > Alex. > > [0] Personal opinion. Worth every cent you paid for it. I'm not a lawyer > and I never played one on TV. Void were prohibited. Caveat emptor. > [1] Last time I checked, there was a time limited "educational purposes" > virtual machine image one could download and run with the appropriate > hypervisor software. ^^^^^^ That is going away, too. bill

2 years

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Re: Amoeba OS

by Bill Gunshannon

On 3/28/2024 1:25 PM, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: > > >> On Mar 28, 2024, at 1:02 PM, Alessandro Mazzini via cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: >> >> Sorry if I intrude... now is no more possible to obtain hobbyist licenses for vms ?? > > You can still get one for OpenVMS/x86. > As of the past few days, that may not be the case anymore. bill

2 years

3
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WTB: Cromemco System Zero

by Jonathan Chapman

All, I'm looking for a Cromemco System Zero, doesn't matter if it's empty or not. Please contact me off-list if you have one to sell/trade or know of one! Thanks, Jonathan

2 years

3
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Cleanup time again

by Bill Gunshannon

On 3/26/2024 9:15 AM, Paul Koning wrote: > > >> On Mar 26, 2024, at 8:57 AM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: >> >> >> >> On 3/25/2024 9:51 PM, Henry Bent wrote: >>> On Mon, 25 Mar 2024 at 20:14, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org <mailto:cctalk@classiccmp.org>> wrote: >>> Oops. I guess the fingers work as good as the memory. Sorry >>> about that. I've got about 20 of them. I know they haven't >>> been used since they were taken out of the VAX Cluster I ran >>> at the University. Nothing I have used the SB boxes with since >>> then would know what to do with 9GB of disk space. :-) >>> But, if needed I could probably test them on a PC I have with >>> an Adaptec SCSI in it. It's intended for Ersatz-11 but I expect >>> does could use a disk that big. Too bad there's no way to read >>> them. Might be some interesting stuff left behind by the VAX. >>> Why is there no way to read them? If you have a PC with a SCSI card you can easily boot into the Linux or BSD distro of your choice and make a dd (or ddrescue) image of the entire drive, which could then be accessed by whatever means. >> >> >> These disks were part of a really large RAID array in a SAN connected to >> the VAX cluster. There is no way of reconstructing it and so no way to >> extract usable information. >> >> bill > > Do you have just part of the RAID set, or enough disks to make a complete one? Don't know, but doubt it. Some of the disks have probably been used for other purposes since the VAXen went away more than 20 years ago. > If the latter then it's a matter of reverse engineering the RAID layout, > which is likely to be doable. While possible, I think hardly likely. I don't even remember what the appliance was. Something DECish. bill

2 years

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DEC Processor Books

by Bill Gunshannon

I have often wondered about the people we find in the various DEC Processor (and other) books. Were they models in staged photo-sessions or were these candid shots from DEC facilities and if so, can anyone identify who they might be. Looking thru some of the books again I came across an interesting photo on page 42 of the 1981 pdp11 processor handbook / pdp11 04 24 34a 44 70. If you take a magnifier to the picture you will find the system presented in that photo is not a pdp11 but a VAX. :-) I wonder what other DEC systems are contained in these photos? bill

2 years

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How to shutdown RT11?

by W2HX

I just got a pdp-11 to boot and it seems to have rt-11 installed. How do I do an orderly shutdown? Google has info on simh but this ain't that. Thanks! 73 Eugene w2hx

2 years

13
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Someone with ExpressPCB: can you convert these to Gerbers?

by Cameron Kaiser

I'm trying to build some prototype Tomy Tutor cartridges of my own but I'm all thumbs in KiCad, and while prefab ones exist that I can just add an EPROM to, they're in ExpressPCB and PCBWay wants Gerbers. This Mac won't run ExpressPCB, or at least not in a way that wouldn't involve a significant expenditure. Is someone out there with a copy of ExpressPCB willing to convert these to Gerbers I can upload? They're quite small so it should be a simple task. If so, please contact me off-list with many thanks! -- ------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ -- Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser(a)floodgap.com -- E pluribus Unix ------------------------------------------------------------

2 years

1
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vic-20 basic on cartridge

by Jacob Dahl Pind

I got a vic-20 in a painted case, with a biacom label, and a modified VIC-1110 8kb memory, where there have been added a 8kb eprom have been to the left side where the additional 8kb could be installed. https://telefisk.org/biacom_8kb_a000+8kbmem.rom https://telefisk.org/biacom_basic.txt The autostart rom code, that disables runstop, moves and starts basic , does seem to initialize everthing like a normal start does. Adding the rom to vice without reset and do a poke 44,161, to move the basic start to 41216, one can look at the code. The software seems to be made to print signs, but I havent had much luck getting vice to print, I only get a blank page. Looking at the code line 60 # Line Spacing of n/216 inch chr$(27) "3" chr$(n) line 61 # chr$(14) One-line Expanded Print # chr$(20) cancel expanded print line 68 # single density 60dpi line lenght 135 + (256*1) does look like it match up to the commodore/epson codes, printing the basic list with open1,4,7:print#1:cmd1:list works in text and graphics for the mps80x, but not from the basic code there. Wonder if I am running into a bug with the print emulation or it was made to use a different printer ? Regards -- Jacob Dahl Pind | telefisk.org | fidonet 2:230/38.8

2 years

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Plessey 703185-100C

by Bill Gunshannon

So, sorting thru stuff I came across this white elephant again. I never found anything to positively identify it but I always assumed it was some kind of buss extender. One board is fully populated with chips and the other connected together with a ribbon cable is totally passive. But this time I found the funniest thing about it. The passive end has a sticker on it with an expiration date. I have to admit I have never found an expiration date on any of my PDP or VAX hardware before. :-) bill

2 years

2
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VCF East Hotel Block #3 (Wall, NJ)

by Jeffrey Brace

VCF East Hotel Block #3 I have opened up another hotel block: Red Roof Inn 11 Centre Plaza Eatontown, NJ 20% discount. Call 732-389-4646 before the cut off date 03/31/2024 and book your room under the Vintage Computer Festival East group name. <jeffrey(a)vcfed.org> For tickets: vcfeast.eventbrite.com April 12-14, 2024 Wall, NJ https://vcfed.org/events/vintage-computer-festival-east/

2 years

1
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Re: VAX 4000 console SLU in need of some TLC

by Antonio Carlini

On 21/03/2024 22:03, Jonathan Stone wrote: > What kind of VAX 4000? One with DSSI connectors on the "S:U", or the > /VAX 4000-200/KA660, which has serial and Ethernet? IIRC you can > klludge up the latter using a KA630 SLU, and either re-using the > AUI/10base-2 part of the SLU, > or kludging one from a DEQNA/DELQA to act like the AUI-select switch > setting and AUI of the original > Those come off the KA660 in a single IDC connector, 50 pin if memory > serves. > > I have no idea about substituting for DSSI. It's a VAX 4000-300 (KA670) in a BA440, so it has two DSSI, ethernet, the usual switches and LED display. I can switch ethernet between AUI and BNC (the green LEDs change) and I have known working DETPM AUI<->RJ45 interfaces, so ethernet may be OK. I have found one panel for a KA650 (uV 3500/3600) that has an OK connector but is otherwise a bit toasty, so I'll try carefully removing that tomorrow. If that goes OK, then I'll remove the MMJ socket from the VAX 4000 console SLU: it's dead so there's not really much risk here as long as I'm careful with the PCB. At least I could then tack on 6 wires and find a way of interfacing. I do have at least one H8584-AC, which is an MMJ socket and an RJ45 plug. So with a bit of measuring I could probably find an RJ45 socket and rig up some temporary franken-console. Or, if the KA650 donor is really too far gone, and its socket survives half a dozen cable insertion-removals with no harm, then I could just fit that in place. If the console ethernet doesn't work, I think I can drop in the DELQA with appropriate handles from the KA650 system ... I think that the BA440 Q-bus metalwork and the BA213 metalwork are compatible. If not I have one Q-bus DELQA panel and I'm sure that neither the VAX nor anything else in there with it care too much about RF interference these days! I can find new MMJ plugs all over the place (admittedly I'm assuming that Mouser and Farnell could actually supply them!!) but the corresponding sockets seem to be lost to time. Or at least they remain beyond my goolge-fu. Antonio -- Antonio Carlini antonio(a)acarlini.com

2 years

2
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Two IBM 360's available in the UK

by Adam Bradley

Hi all, Some of you may remember that I (Adam) and another chap (Chris) rescued two IBM 360/20 systems out of an abandoned building in Nuremberg back in 2019 and brought them to the UK (our blog is here: https://www.ibm360.co.uk/). We have since basically found ourselves unable to effectively progress the project due to personal & professional commitments. For various reasons (explained in our latest blog post) we are testing the waters for making the machines available to the right sort of people. We are therefore inviting proposals or offers focused around one of the following core ideas: 1. A museum or preservation organisation takes the machines on permanent loan or possibly as a donation depending upon exactly what the terms look like 2. A private entity takes the machines on loan for display for a fix period 3. A foreign museum takes the machines, with negotiation around coverage of our costs 4. A private collector purchases the machines from us for a sum to be negotiated at the time If you have an alternate proposal we would also be open to hearing it. We have three main systems in the collection, as detailed below: *Red IBM 360 Model 20 System* 1 x IBM 360 Model 20 CPU in Red 1x 2203 System Printer 2x 2311 Disk Drives 1x 2152 System Console (possibly the last remaining example of this in the world, though in poor condition) 1x 2560 Punched Card Reader/Punch/Sorter 1x 2501 Punched Card Reader 2x 2415 II Tape Drives (One master, one slave) (Possibly only remaining examples of this model globally) 25x IBM Disc Packs *Blue IBM 360 Model 20 System* 1 x IBM 360 Model 20 CPU in Blue 1x 2501 Punched Card Reader 1x 1403 Printer *System 370/125* 1x 370/125 CPU – Unknown condition 1x 3504 Punched card reader (incomplete) *Miscellaneous* 1x 029 Card Punch 1x 5471 System Console Assorted other spares and unknown/incomplete components Around 12 full boxes of brand new IBM punched cards ----------- In an ideal world we would like to see everything go together, but we understand that this is an enormous amount of kit and that might not be possible. We are not willing to split up individual systems, but we are willing to split things by the groupings above. For instance if there was interest in only the red system due to its complete set of peripherals, we would be willing to negotiate on that basis. It is extremely rare that systems such as this become available, and these are two of only a handful of privately held IBM 360’s in the world. If you have an idea or a proposal, please email me directly at this address. Please do NOT email me to suggest I contact X museum unless you are a representative of that museum or hold a direct relationship with them and know they are interested. We are genuinely sad that we’ve been unable to work on this project and take it where we wanted it to go. We set out with strong intentions, but alas, as is often the case life took over and we were unable to push forward in the way we wanted to. We hope that someone comes along who will be able to keep the systems safe for future generations. Kind Regards, Adam Bradley

2 years

6
7
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Bitsavers Zuse scans

by Christian Corti

With great interest, I have seen that there are now scans for the Z23 (perhaps more coming soon :-) ). But I have to admit that I am so much disappointed of the quality. I mean, whoever scanned this all, did he have a single look at the output? I do this, for each of the many scans, may they be only a single or many hundred pages. Example: .../zuse/Z23/Zuse_Z23_Beschreibung_einschlie%c3%9flich_der_Zusazgeräte_Februar_1962.pdf PDF pages 16/17: this is a no-go. This must not happen in a document uploaded to bitsavers. Pages 32-35 (and many others, too): what the heck happened here?? And there appears to have been some "intelligent" post-processing of the images that renders them very artificially. Sorry for the rant, but that is not what I would accept as archiving material. I'd offer to rescan them (guessing that the origin is from Germany) reasonably. Christian

2 years

1
0
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Semi-OT: MAX180 Evaluation Kit ROM/Diskette Image

by Jonathan Chapman

All, I'm looking for an image of the ROM or companion diskette for the Maxim MAX180 Evaluation Kit (MAX180EVKIT). I've got one that has a custom application ROM in it. Thanks, Jonathan

2 years

1
0
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Re: Voyager spacecraft computer

by rich.cini＠verizon.net

There is a printed version of this printed by Alpha Books, ISBN 1-56761-463-9. I bought it years ago (1998) . Not sure if it’s 100% the same text, but it has a lot of nice pictures and was issued around the 25th anniversary of Apollo 11. It’s on Amazon right now for $7.12. Rich On 3/15/24, 8:14 PM, "Ethan Dicks via cctalk" <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: On Fri, Mar 15, 2024 at 6:49 PM Charles Dickman via cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > Voyager 1 is in the news recently because of communications problems and > possible solutions. Is there an online source for documentation on the > Voyager systems, especially the computers and navigation systems? > > I have enjoyed reviewing the Apollo systems documentation on the Virtual > AGS Home Page and wondered if there were similar documents available for > Voyager. "NASA Contractor Report 182505 Computers in Spaceflight: The NASA Experience" More of a top-level tour of a number of platforms, it covers, in quite some detail, systems from Gemini to the Space Shuttle and mentions the RCA 1802 numerous times. Samples of some NASA DSLs (HAL/S and GOAL). Extensive citations and bibilography. Voyager and Galileo are covered in Chapter 6. Public domain. PDF link at: https://ntrs.nasa.gov/citations/19880069935 Excellent stuff in there. -ethan

2 years

1
0
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Voyager spacecraft computer

by Charles Dickman

Voyager 1 is in the news recently because of communications problems and possible solutions. Is there an online source for documentation on the Voyager systems, especially the computers and navigation systems? I have enjoyed reviewing the Apollo systems documentation on the Virtual AGS Home Page and wondered if there were similar documents available for Voyager. -chuck

2 years

2
1
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SMD/ESDI emulator progress report

by Guy Sotomayor

Hi, I just wanted to provide a bit of a progress report on the SMD/ESDI emulator project. Now that I'm retired I have a bit more time to actually work on it. Previously I was just doing a bunch of research and writing notes on the design. I now have a solid design and I'm starting with the implementation. I'm going to list some of the design goals and then sketch out a few of the major issues and how they're being addressed. Goals: * Emulate any drive geometry * Emulate a drive's performance characteristics * Work across different interface types * Fully built emulator cost below $500 Major Issues: * SMD/ESDI have head switch times < 10 microseconds (basically the time it takes for the read amplifiers to settle on a "real" drive). Solving this issue drives the majority of the design * Address marks on a "real" drive are implemented by writing a DC signal on the track and the read circuitry detects that and generates the address mark signal When looking at the specifications for SMD and ESDI disks there aren't really a lot of difference in how the drive behaves. The interfaces differ in detail but in reality the differences are pretty minor. So the current design should allow for 95+% code sharing between SMD and ESDI emulators. To solve the head switch performance, it is necessary to have an entire cylinder in some sort of RAM. This allows for very fast head switch times (e.g. the selected head just addresses a particular portion of the RAM). However, this means that loading a cylinder (which in some cases could be as much as 1MB) could take considerable time. It will take even longer if some of the tracks in the cylinder are "dirty" due to them having being written to prior to the seek. Since I want the emulator to be able to faithfully emulate drives in all respects, the limiting factor is the cylinder-to-cylinder seek time (e.g. moving from one cylinder to another cylinder that is adjacent). This is typically in the 4-8ms range. So doing the math, one must move 1MB in 4ms (that turns out to be ~250MB/sec of bandwidth...using 32-bit transfers, this means over 60M transfers/sec). The above implies that the cylinder RAM and where the storage holding the cylinders of the image must be capable of at least 60M transfers/sec between them. This is going to involve a complex FPGA that is able to have large internal RAMs and a direct connection to some sort of DRAM to hold the full image. I've chosen to use a SOM (System-On-Module) version of the Xilinx Zynq 7020. This has dual 32-bit ARM cores (plus a whole bunch of peripherals), 32-bit DDR3 memory interface, plus a fairly large FPGA with enough block RAM to contain the maximum cylinder. The calculations I've done should allow a new cylinder to be loaded from DRAM into the cylinder RAM in 4-8ms (I think with a few tricks I can keep it in the lower range). I've looked a quite a few Zynq SOMs (and have acquired quite a few for evaluation purposes). I finally found one that's ~$200 (most of the others are in the $400-$1000+ range). This SOM brings out most of the Zynq's I/Os (94 I/Os) in addition to having ethernet, USB, serial, SD card, etc. as well as 1GB of 32-bit DDR3 DRAM. It also runs Linux which means that developing the SW is fairly straight forward. The next issue was how to emulate address marks. The emulated drive will have a bit clock which is necessary for clocking out the data when reading (or out when writing). The bit clock is always running (just like a "real" drive when spinning). That will drive a counter (which represents which bit is under the emulated "head"), that counter (along with the head number) will be used to address the block RAM. The counter is always running, so as to emulate the spinning disk. The address marks are emulated by having a series of comparators (one for each possible sector). They compare the bit counter with the value associated with the comparator, if there's a match then that signals an address mark. It's bit more complicated because writing address marks (in the case of soft-sectors) has to be dealt with. The emulator is composed of 4 major components: 1. Emulator application plus some utilities I'm currently writing all of this code...since I'd been a SW engineer for 50+ years, this is all "production" quality code and is extremely well documented...still a ways to go. 2. Linux device driver which provides the interface between the emulator application and the emulator HW I haven't started on the driver yet but it should be fairly straight forward as it really only provides an interface to the emulator HW to the emulator application 3. Emulator HW RTL I haven't started on this other than to do some basic blocks of what's here. It mainly is the cylinder RAM, serdes (I *may* be able to finesse this by having 32-bits on the AXI bus and 1 bit on the interface side...a nice feature of the block RAM), address mark logic, bit counter and some command decode/handling (it'll handle the seek command all in the RTL...everything else will be handled by the application. 4. Interface board This should be a fairly simple board. It's a carrier for the SOM, 3.3v-to-5v level shifters, interface circuits for SMD or ESDI (they use different interface ICs) and the interface to the cable. I'm starting with SMD just to make the board layout easier (I can just use 0.1" headers for interface cabling). I also have an SMD disk exerciser that will make it easier to make sure it's working properly. The idea is that once I have an SMD working reasonably well, I'll start on ESDI. Interacting with the emulator application can be any of the following: * config file: indicates various emulator startup options including which image (if any) to "mount" initially * command line: same as the config file * emulator utilities: these are mainly allow for changing which image is mounted, changing write protect status, querying state of emulator, etc. The utilities can be used locally by logging into to Linux running on the Zynq 7020 or by using "host" versions if the emulator is connected to a network via ethernet. One of the key utilities is creating an "empty" (that is all tracks contain all 0's) image. The image format has been finalized. It allows for almost any geometry of disk (up to 32 heads and up to 65536 cylinders). The main restriction is the 1GB of DRAM on the Zynq 7020 SOM. I expect in reality that the largest drive that can be emulated will be ~600-700MB due to DRAM. I plan on providing some standardized "templates" (e.g. they'll describe actual drive geometries and seek performance tables) so creating new images won't be too onerous. I'll be putting all of the source, RTL and board files on github under a BSD license once I get further along. -- TTFN - Guy

2 years

2
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Keyboard Blockers?

by Douglas Taylor

I picked up a keyboard for a Wyse terminal at a flea market the other day. When I tried some of the keys, they couldn't be depressed. I thought, at first, some dirt or debris had gotten stuck there, but on closer look I saw something black below the keys that seemed to be stuck. I pulled a key cap off and found a U shaped piece of black plastic that was put there on purpose to prevent you from depressing the key. The question came to mind; "What sort of application would be so crude that you would have to prevent the user from depressing certain keys?" One of the keys was a Break key, which sort of made sense to me, because it would halt a PDP-11 if that was the host machine. This was the first time I had ever seen this kind of thing, was this common long ago?

2 years

5
5
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Surplus Vintage Computer Sale @ Kennett Classic Starting

by Bill Degnan

LINK: https://www.kennettclassic.com/surplus-sale-starts-3-19/ If you can make it to Kennett Square, PA USA between now and April 19th 2024, stop in and browse our inventory of surplus vintage computing items. The link above contains answers to questions. If you want to be added to the mailing list, visit kennettclassic.com and submit a contact form. Thanks Bill Degnan

2 years

1
0
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Did something happen to comp.os.vms ?

by Zane Healy

Did something happen to comp.os.vms and/or usenet? All the DEC newsgroups appear to be missing from Eternal September. Zane

2 years

4
5
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Dumping an UV PROM for a Sun 386i

by Christopher Zach

Hi all! I'm working on a little side project to see why one can't put a better CPU chip into a Sun 386i. Basically with a real 386 in the socket the system will at least start to flash the LEDs on the back, but with a Cyrix chip the LEDs are frozen on. I can remove the frame buffer, memory cards, even the Timekeeper chip and I still see this behavior. Running with no CPU or no PROM chip makes the system flash no lights, pointing to the problem being code in the PROM. Now, 386 CPUs don't have the CPUID register, but they do have a little feature where upon reset EDX contains a "3" to show the CPU "type". On a Cyrix chip it contains a "4". My guess is the ROM code has at the beginning a check of EDX and if <>3 go to a halt. I'd like to dump the code, find that check, and either replace the 3 with a 4, or replace the first HALT with a NOOP. The PROM is an Intel D27010 which is an Intel 128k*8 chip. Unfortunately I'm not finding much in terms of either datasheets or PROM programmers. Does anyone know how to/have the tools to dump and reprogram this? I'll bet the old archives that talk about the "Blue Lightning 386" working for boot were due to the chip being made under license of Intel thus being allowed to have that "3" in there. But since I also have a TI 386/486 chip with 8k of L1 cache, a 486 core instruction set, faster multiplier, and clock doubling by default I think it might wind up being.... faster. C

2 years

2
1
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5 1/4" and 3.5" disk duplication machines

by Bill Degnan

Does anyone have interest in vintage diskette duplication / duplication machines? Would this make for an interesting VCF exhibit? Does/did anyone use these commercially? Bill

2 years

7
7
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CommonPoint for AIX

by Cameron Kaiser

Just a ping out there to see if anyone's sitting on installation media for CommonPoint (the last gasp of Taligent). Seems appropriate to try to coerce it to run on an Apple Network Server. Let me know on or off list as appropriate. -- ------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ -- Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser(a)floodgap.com -- "I'd love to go out with you, but I need to clean my toilet brush." --------

2 years, 1 month

1
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FS: PDP-11/23+ system

by Charles

Over the years, I have gradually built up a functional PDP-11/23+ system, which of course I now have no need for ;) So I'd be interested in selling it as I slowly downsize. You'd need to pick it up in south central Missouri as shipping would be impractical and expensive. Specifics: 11/23+ with 4MB RAM, selectable boot ROMs, two RL02 drives, floppy interface (set to 3.5" TEAC drive), 16-line serial ports, corporate cabinet with DEC power controller. Software including RT-11SJ, XM, TSX-Plus. Also have a VT-220 for the console which I may sell separately or with the system. Please email me *off-list* with offers, request for pics, etc. thanks Charles

2 years, 1 month

1
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IBM PC-XT

by Murray McCullough

I look back fondly on the IBM PC-XT of 41 years ago. It was very pricy here in the Great North but it allowed for a much more advanced computing environment. What one could do with a 10MB hard disk! Granted it was far more popular in the business world than the consumer one. However, it made possible much greater developments that hobbyists and experimenters latched onto. Happy computing! Murray 😊

2 years, 1 month

3
2
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VCF Midwest Hotel Booking Opens 3/8

by Jason T

Hello classic computing fans! The new website for VCF Midwest is up at https://vcfmw.org. Who knows the design inspiration without asking a (Commodore) friend?? Apologies if it doesn't render well on your device. I don't have your device! Room booking for the show will open this afternoon (Friday 3/8). It will be announced via the mailing list and a refresh of this web page (at the "HOTEL" link.) Lots more rooms this time, and we're starting with an empty block. But it's still best to book early if you want to stay at the show hotel! See you in September... -jt

2 years, 1 month

1
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Requesting Lisp Machine photos

by John Floren

I'm gathering photos of Lisp machines (of all makes and models). If you've got them scanned already, that's great, otherwise I have a scanner if you're willing to entrust your photos to me temporarily. Let's take replies off-list unless you think it'll be of general interest to subscribers. Thanks, John

2 years, 1 month

1
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Looking for TMS0106NC chip

by Charles

I hope a 1974 desk calculator (Radio Shack EC-2000, a re-badged TI-3500) is considered sufficiently both classic and computer for this list. :) The one IC, a TI TMS0106NC, has failed and I'm searching everywhere for a replacement. There's an -0103 on ebay from the same family which would substitute, but it's only 8 digits and this is a 10 digit machine. Plus it's $31 with postage, more than the calculator itself is worth! If anyone has one, or knows where I can get this IC, new or a pull, please let me know. Thanks!

2 years, 1 month

1
0
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RD54 Maxtor XT-2190 w/one long meep

by Jacob Ritorto

Hi! Remember the blearrnnnnt-meeeeeelrp sounding seek oscillation noise that the RD54 makes when you turn it on -- after it spins up, unlatches and loads the heads? Well, I took a chance on an el-(c)heapo ePay special RD54 that does all these things perfectly up until the seek oscillation thing and then only makes one steady meeee- sound that seems to last indefinitely (or at least until I get tired of listening to it after a few minutes). Would anyone here know enough about these disks to venture a guess at where to begin troubleshooting this? thx jake P.S. If I'm being too vague, let me restate: I can hear it spin up, bearings sound normal, hear it unlock its head lock latch, then a perfectly *slight* noise of head actuation and the normal accompanying barely audible riding-on-air head noise. Then I expect to hear the two seek tones, but only get one steady seek tone that lasts (I assume) forever.

2 years, 1 month

12
16
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Visual 50 terminal troubleshooting

by William Sudbrink

I have a Visual 50 terminal that I am now troubleshooting. I got it in the late 1980s and it worked fine until 1995. I can't find a good schematic for it or ROM images. Its symptom is that it powers up to continual beep (solid tone, not repeated beeps) with a cursor on the screen. This is not in the troubleshooting table of the manual that I have. I know the keyboard is capacitive foam pads. I was hoping that was the trouble, but it is not. I disassembled the keyboard and removed the old pads, replacing a few with some spares I had from SOL20 repairs. Has anyone corrected this problem before? I suspect that the EPROMs are going. Thanks, Bill Sudbrink -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com

2 years, 1 month

1
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Re: mod.sources archive?

by Dennis Boone

> Googling for "mirror uxc.cso.uiuc.edu" found me one hopeful hit: > https://www.funet.fi > pub > misc > Notes.README Ron, Another good search approach that I hadn't thought of. Many thanks! De

2 years, 1 month

1
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mod.sources archive?

by Dennis Boone

Does anyone have or know of an archive of old mod.sources (predecessor of comp.sources.unix) posts? I know googlegroups has it, but that only means nothing since it's effectively inaccessible there. De

2 years, 1 month

4
5
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Decwriter III self test issue?

by W2HX

Hi all, I recently acquired a very nice decwriter III and it seems in good nick. However, the self test "hangs" on the return direction of the second line. Here is a video on it: https://youtu.be/pj6rk5Dlnbk Anyone have any ideas where to look? In local mode, it appears to work properly. I haven't tried any external serial connection yet. 73 Eugene W2HX My Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@w2hx/videos

2 years, 1 month

3
4
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QProbe2023 - QBUS Blinkenlights

by Joerg Hoppe

Fellow nerds, not sure who knows about this project, so here an announcement ... again? As QBUS PDP-11s (03,23,73,83,93, also uVAX) don't have lots of lamps&switches like the old UNIBUS machines, their owners suffer on "Blinkenlight envy". So I was pushed to pimp up the QBUS diagnostic adapter "QProbe" https://www.retrocmp.com/tools/qprobe Model "QProbe2023" has now focus on entertainment. There's a QBUS signal display in style of old PDP-10/12/15 rack header panels. It can be build into a 5.25" drive case ... or into the BA23 case itself. https://www.retrocmp.com/tools/qprobe/327-qprobe2023-overview By lucky incident you can even see the idle loop pattern of RSX11M+ on some J11 systems. See a full boot of RSX11M+ at time index 5:56 of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajAcxGwK-vQ As it also has RESTART/HALT/AUX switches, it's also helpful for PDP-11s mounted case-less in a standalone backplane (like the one at https://retrocmp.com/projects/lsibox and on the "Frankenstein" video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hoW7Szkppww&t=403s ) Btw for unknown reasons, I cannot register to classiccmp itself ... CC me direct in your replies. kind regards, Joerg

2 years, 1 month

1
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Re: Paper tape in casettes...

by erik＠baigar.de

Hi Jon! > think the Bendix G-15 had cassettes for the 5-level tape > they used. Aha, interesting! Did a short search, but have not been able to find a picture of a casette. Just a pile of paper tape instead ;-) https://images.app.goo.gl/HYqkpYHJUxZeGfiA8 > of mylar tape instead of paper. OS boot tapes might be punched > on that. Yes, for heavy use (and e.g. humid environments), the mil guys obviously used Mylar or heavily oiled tape. Although not experrienced myself, I was told that the Mylar tape cuts through the guiding pins of the readers over time. And yes, it also may easily cut one's fingers ;-) > much like plain paper tape, and simple mylar alone. The latter often > comes metallized on one side, and is glossy. Yes, that is the one within the casette and the aluminum as you expect is for optical reading (Most plastics including Mylar are quite transparent for IR light and in the old days, when thungsten bulbs where used, the IR part of the light was the major part contributing to the response of the photodiodes! > input medium for the university mainframe computer (Electrologica X8), > they used optical readers rated at 2000 characters per second. Wow - that is indeed pretty fast!!! My FACIT is 1200cps maximum and stopping "on character" as it is called is VERY hard at that speed. But buffering helps here and in case of the 920M, the casette is used for, there was no buffering. So software needs to be read in one run. Best wishes, Erik. ''~`` ( o o ) +--------------------------.oooO--(_)--Oooo.-------------------------+ | Dr. Erik Baigar Inertial Navigation & | | Salzstrasse 1 .oooO Vintage Computer | | D87616 Marktoberdorf ( ) Oooo. Hobbyist / Physicist | | erik(a)baigar.de +------\ (----( )---------------------------+ | www.baigar.de | \_) ) / +----------------------+ (_/

2 years, 1 month

15
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Re: Paper tape in casettes...

by Erik Baigar

Hi Paul, thanks for your answer and the interesting links... > > Aha, interesting! Did a short search, but have not been able to > > find a picture of a casette. Just a pile of paper tape instead ;-) > > > > https://images.app.goo.gl/HYqkpYHJUxZeGfiA8 > > Bitsavers has a collection of G-15 manuals. For a picture of an > open cassette, see PDF page 27 in http://bitsavers.org/pdf/bendix/g-15/60061400_G15D_Parts_Manual.pdf. Ahh OK, I see. But that is not a hermetically sealed casette suitable for outdoor use in windy, rainy weather like the one on my desk. As the thread deviated meanwhile, I guess the Elliott Mylar tape casette is a unique leftover from the old days ;-) Best wishes, Erik. ''~`` ( o o ) +--------------------------.oooO--(_)--Oooo.-------------------------+ | Dr. Erik Baigar Inertial Navigation & | | Salzstrasse 1 .oooO Vintage Computer | | D87616 Marktoberdorf ( ) Oooo. Hobbyist / Physicist | | erik(a)baigar.de +------\ (----( )---------------------------+ | www.baigar.de | \_) ) / +----------------------+ (_/

2 years, 1 month

1
0
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Paper tape in casettes...

by Dr. Erik Baigar

Hi there - recently I posted a small video on a rugged paper tape casette... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2jnThYsPKc I wonder whether anyone kows if someone else had the idea of putting paper/mylar tape into a casette for repeated use e.g. to load an OS or similar. Best wishes, Erik. ''~`` ( o o ) +------------------------.oooO--(_)--Oooo.---------------------------+ | Dr. Erik Baigar Inertial Navigation & | | Salzstrasse 1 .oooO Vintage Computer | | D87616 Marktoberdorf ( ) Oooo. Hobbyist / Physicist | | erik(a)baigar.de +----\ (----( )-----------------------------+ | www.baigar.de | \_) ) / +----------------------+ (_/

2 years, 1 month

5
4
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"HB A8" ISA SCSI controller BIOS image?

by Ken Seefried

I have some 8-bit ISA 53c90a based SCSI controllers labeled "SCSI HB A8". Mine are made by "Advanced Information Concepts", but apparently they were also made by "Control Concepts". Unfortunately, mine don't have the BIOS chips installed. I have a picture of the card with a chip installed labeled "Ver-3.02 CCI 0991", so I know an 8k or 16k boot prom existed. Does anyone have such a card that they'd be willing to dump a prom image from (or let me borrow it to dump). KJ

2 years, 1 month

1
0
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Mexico’s SNIPE system?

by Jonathan Katz

A bit of an odd one…. I’m trying to figure out what type of computers ran Mexico’s infamous SNIPE electoral vote system in 1988. I have an LA Times article from 1994 talking about how the NEW system was RS/6000-based. But this was a system built in 1987-1988. Narcos Mexico had a pretty re-creation but I didn’t spy any brand names. Any ideas? I figure there may be photos or press releases from that time but my Google-fu (and español) is weak. -Jon +44 7792 149029

2 years, 1 month

1
0
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Seeking Z180 Assembly Programmer

by Sellam Abraham

When I was at the VCF SoCal last weekend I met a gentleman who was looking for someone with Zilog Z180 assembly language experience. He says he needs someone to rewrite code in what sounds like some kind of terminal server product he sells(?) to convert the protocol it uses from Televideo format to ANSI (because Televideo is getting harder to support). This gentleman said he has a modest budget for the project. Let me know if you might be particularly qualified and interested and I'll put you in touch with him and you can go from there. Sellam

2 years, 1 month

1
0
0 0

Turbo Prolog

by Just Kant

Has anyone used it or something contemporaneous? Is it at all applicable to any degree to today's approach to AI/machine learning tasks? I would like to perhaps eventually create a game, probably not chess, lilely something simpler. The old expert system modeling paradigm seems to have largely if not entirely fallen out of favor. From what I'm reading though TP seems to be geared for that.

2 years, 1 month

6
8
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Re: Turbo Prolog

by Win Heagy

I bought a copy at a mall in Nashville TN some 30+ years ago. I was working at an airline at the time and was interested in the crew scheduling problem, as well as all things AI related. I never got too far using Prolog on that particular problem. I found the disks and manual like 13 years ago and made a short video and put it on youtube. Turbo Prolog was pretty speedy even on old hardware. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svcxu0xiH34 Win

2 years, 1 month

1
0
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Another blast from the past...

by Bill Gunshannon

So, here I was binge watching a scifi series called "Night Sky", which sadly was not renewed, but I digress... In one of the episodes two of the characters go to see a man who apparently is a monitor for something having to do with the devices that teleport people all over not only earth but other planets as well. He has this workbench covered with computers that look like mostly PC's but some could be Suns or other real computers. And many displays with really cool graphics. And sitting in the middle of all of this is ------- An IMSAI-8080. :-) Front panel is clearly visible in a number of scenes. Of course, with the program being canceled one has to wonder, did it go back into a prop warehouse somewhere or just the nearest dumpster? :-( bill

2 years, 1 month

2
1
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VCF SoCal

by Sellam Abraham

I'll be attending VCF SoCal on February 17-18 in Orange (California) in the capacity of a presenter (on a panel and a solo presentation). Is anyone else planning to attend the event? Sellam

2 years, 1 month

20
44
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@r.stricklin about VMS TK50 images

by Hans-Ulrich Hölscher

Hi, I tried several times to contact you directly via bear(a)typewriiten.org, but no success, so I'm trying it this way now: Could you please provide the images for the following software from your collection: - AQ-KZ18B-BE VAX/VMS V4.7A BIN TK50 - AQ-JG62A-BN MicroVMS V4.5 BIN TK50 - AQ-JT80A-BN MicroVMS V4.5B BIN TK50 I'm a collector of DEC hardware and software and I like to complete my "OldVMS collection". You know it's like stamp collecting - you always want the complete set ... Let me know if there is anything I can do for you! Regards Ulli The VAXorcist

2 years, 1 month

1
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