22 Jun
2026
22 Jun
'26
1:08 p.m.
Hello! Our office represents the family of a gentleman (Mr. Marsh) who passed away from
mesothelioma, a cancer caused from breathing asbestos. Mr. Marsh spent his career working
for a contractor that provided third-party installation and maintenance of DEC computer
equipment at various customer locations. We are curious if any DEC equipment ever
contained asbestos, possibly asbestos lined brakes, gaskets etc. I am wondering if anyone
in this forum has personal knowledge or documentation of asbestos use in DEC equipment OR
if any of you have a tape drive with a braking mechanism that we can test for asbestos
content? I can be reached via email or on my cell phone (925) 639-8593 with your thoughts.
Thank you for your time!
Regards,
Jennifer Manibusan
Legal Investigator
Maune Raichle Hartley French & Mudd, LLC
1900 Powell Street, Suite 200
Emeryville, CA 94608
(925) 639-8593 Cell
(314) 241-2003 Office
This communication may be attorney-client privileged or otherwise confidential. If you are
not the intended recipient, please delete this message and notify the sender of this
error.
29 Jul
29 Jul
6:15 a.m.
I'm not an expert and other people will , I assume, answer. But likely
asbestos was present in one or more than one of the clients locations (if we
assume a direct link vs any other external factor).
Here in Italy the old Olivetti had serious cases of asbestos but the issue
wasn't in the computers they manufactured. The issue was in the offices and
buildings of the manufacturing/development plant
-----Original Message-----
From: Jennifer Manibusan via cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Monday, June 22, 2026 11:08 PM
To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org
Cc: Jennifer Manibusan <JManibusan(a)mrhfmlaw.com>
Subject: [cctalk] DEC and Asbestos
Hello! Our office represents the family of a gentleman (Mr. Marsh) who
passed away from mesothelioma, a cancer caused from breathing asbestos. Mr.
Marsh spent his career working for a contractor that provided third-party
installation and maintenance of DEC computer equipment at various customer
locations. We are curious if any DEC equipment ever contained asbestos,
possibly asbestos lined brakes, gaskets etc. I am wondering if anyone in
this forum has personal knowledge or documentation of asbestos use in DEC
equipment OR if any of you have a tape drive with a braking mechanism that
we can test for asbestos content? I can be reached via email or on my cell
phone (925) 639-8593 with your thoughts. Thank you for your time!
Regards,
Jennifer Manibusan
Legal Investigator
Maune Raichle Hartley French & Mudd, LLC
1900 Powell Street, Suite 200
Emeryville, CA 94608
(925) 639-8593 Cell
(314) 241-2003 Office
This communication may be attorney-client privileged or otherwise
confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete this
message and notify the sender of this error.
6:57 a.m.
I think it is rather unlikely that relatively recent DEC
machines had any asbestos in them. Possibly some very old
machines from the 1950's and 1960's might. I know some old
PDP-8's had mercury power contactors in them. I can't
imagine where one would use asbestos in a computer. You
mention tape drive braking mechanisms. I don't recall ANY
DEC tape drive that had a "braking mechanism", all control
of the reels was done electronically.
Jon
7:18 a.m.
Don't feed the trolls. Or at least charge them HANDSOMELY.
--
Will
On Wed, Jul 29, 2026 at 11:12 AM Jon Elson via cctalk
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
I think it is rather unlikely that relatively recent DEC
machines had any asbestos in them. Possibly some very old
machines from the 1950's and 1960's might. I know some old
PDP-8's had mercury power contactors in them. I can't
imagine where one would use asbestos in a computer. You
mention tape drive braking mechanisms. I don't recall ANY
DEC tape drive that had a "braking mechanism", all control
of the reels was done electronically.
Jon
11:59 a.m.
On Wed, 29 Jul 2026, William Donzelli via cctalk wrote:
Don't feed the trolls. Or at least charge them
HANDSOMELY.
If they're looking for an ambulance to chase, howzbout automobiles?
Even the ambulance itself, like all cars up until the 1990s, has asbestos
exhaust gaskets, clutch pressure disks, and brake pads and shoes!
Although many have tried, nobody has been able to show causation nor even
statistical correlation between asbestos exposure and cancer among auto
mechanics. (and always be careful about the catastrophic consequences of
conflating causation with correlation!)
Heavy industries, such as shipbuilding are more likely, due to use of
amphibole asbestos versus chrysotile asbestos used in automobiles [and
computer disk and tape brakes?]
There was one confirmed cancer death among Fukushima workers. His family
was compassionately awarded compensation [or enlisted the original
poster's firm?], although he was a smoker. He was very much in favor of
nuclear power, and he personally insisted that his cancer was not caused
by Fukushima. I think that he was the one who stuck around after the
incident to pump sea water into the reactor to cool it (directly against
orders from TEPCO, who were concerned that the sea water would make it
more expensive to repair the plant and return it to use)
Personal injury lawyers love mesothelioma cases, and advertise heavily on
TV to find them, because they have better chances to get a jury to find in
their favor.
Has the original poster and her company also considered trolling
automotive groups?
Am I risking a $1.776 billion lawsuit for maligning them?
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred
7:19 a.m.
I think it is rather unlikely that relatively recent DEC
machines had any asbestos in them. Possibly some very old
machines from the 1950's and 1960's might. I know some old
PDP-8's had mercury power contactors in them. I can't
imagine where one would use asbestos in a computer. You
mention tape drive braking mechanisms. I don't recall ANY
DEC tape drive that had a "braking mechanism", all control
of the reels was done electronically.
Jon
The Datamec Model D2020 1/2" magnetic tape drive from the 1960s has a
mechanical brake. The drive became the HP 7975A tape drive which was sold
by DEC as the TU20 tape drive.
--
Michael Thompson
30 Jul
30 Jul
3:03 a.m.
On Wed, 29 Jul 2026, Jon Elson wrote:
can't imagine where one would use asbestos in a
computer. You mention tape
Isolation/mounting pads on power resistors.
drive braking mechanisms. I don't recall ANY DEC
tape drive that had a
"braking mechanism", all control of the reels was done electronically.
DEC TU10
Christian
3:09 a.m.
On 2026-07-30 07:03, Christian Corti via cctalk wrote:
On Wed, 29 Jul 2026, Jon Elson wrote:
Some versions of the TU10 had Lamb vacuum cleaner motors with carbon
brushes. At one site I had to replace them almost monthly. I wonder
where all the molecules from them went!
I still have a long power cord from a TU10 - long enough to go from
power controller to top of rack - I use it as an extension cord just to
remind me of those dark days :-)
cheers
Nigel
--
Nigel Johnson, MSc., MIEEE, VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU
Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!
Oh what a mangled head received when first we fractals do perceive
can't imagine where one would use asbestos in
a computer. You
mention tape
Isolation/mounting pads on power resistors.
drive braking mechanisms. I don't recall ANY
DEC tape drive that had
a "braking mechanism", all control of the reels was done electronically.
DEC TU10
Christian
7:03 a.m.
New subject: PiDP's available at VCF Midwest
I have arranged to have a very small number of PiDP kits available for
sale at the VCF Midwest show in September.
I am taking pre-orders so that anyone who definitely wants one or more
will be able to get them.
There will be a $100/kit deposit on any pre-orders.
By pre-ordering and picking up at the show you will save on shipping
charges and possibly the $20 processing fee.
Any item for sale at Obsolescence Guaranteed
<https://obsolescence.dev/> will be available for pre-order.
Please note that all pre-orders must be in and the deposit paid before
August 15th so that I can have them here in time for the show.
The kits or pre-assemled that are available are:
PiDP-1 <https://obsolescence.dev/pdp1.html>
Console version Kit $225, Console version assembled $350, Rack version
kit $385, Rack version assembled $560.
PiDP-8 <https://obsolescence.dev/pdp8.html> Kit
$180, Assembled $305
PiDP-10 <https://obsolescence.dev/pdp10.html> Kit
$370, Assembled $545.
PiDP-11 <https://obsolescence.dev/pdp11.html> Kit
$270, Assembled $395.
Enigma Touch <https://obsolescence.dev/enigma-touch.html>
Single kit $185, Two machine kit $295, Single assembled $235, Two
machine assembled $395.
There will be a shipping charge (I don't know how much but less than the
$45 - $65 if ordered directly).
Sales tax in Schaumburg is 10%. There will be a 3% surcharge if paying
by credit card.
Please forward this to anyone whom you feel might be interested.
Please contact me directly to pre-order:
Michael Katz
mkatz(a)12bitzbest.com
+1 (773) 414-1044
2:11 p.m.
New subject: PiDP's available at VCF Midwest
I have arranged to have a very small number of PiDP kits available for
sale at the VCF Midwest show in September.
I am taking pre-orders so that anyone who definitely wants one or more
will be able to get them.
Retail VCF Show Cost
Model Kit Assembled Kit Assembled
PiDP-1 Console <https://obsolescence.dev/pdp1.html> $225.00 $350.00
$232.50 $345.00
PiDP-1 Rack <https://obsolescence.dev/pdp1.html> $385.00 $560.00
$411.50 $569.00
PiDP-8 <https://obsolescence.dev/pdp8.html> $180.00 $305.00
$192.00
$304.50
PiDP-10 <https://obsolescence.dev/pdp10.html> $370.00 $545.00
$363.00
$520.50
PiDP-11 <https://obsolescence.dev/pdp11.html> $270.00 $395.00
$273.00
$385.50
Enigma Touch Single <https://obsolescence.dev/enigma-touch.html>
$185.00 $235.00 $246.50 $291.50
Enigma Touch Double <https://obsolescence.dev/enigma-touch.html>
$295.00 $395.00 $405.50 $495.50
Shipping is included in the VCF Show Cost.
There will be a $100/kit deposit on any pre-orders.
By pre-ordering and picking up at the show you will save on shipping
charges.
Any item for sale at Obsolescence Guaranteed
<https://obsolescence.dev/> will be available for pre-order.
Please note that all pre-orders must be in and the deposit paid before
August 15th so that I can have them here in time for the show.
Sales tax in Schaumburg is 10%. There will be a 3% surcharge if paying
by credit card.
Please forward this to anyone whom you feel might be interested.
If the few extra that I have at the show sell out, I will take
pre-orders at the show.
Please contact me directly to pre-order:
Michael Katz
mkatz(a)12bitzbest.com
+1 (773) 414-1044
5:30 p.m.
New subject: PiDP's available at VCF Midwest
There is a typo in this message, the correct email address is
bitwiz(a)12bitsbest.com.
I'm sorry for any confusion.
I have arranged to have a very small number of PiDP kits available for
sale at the VCF Midwest show in September.
I am taking pre-orders so that anyone who definitely wants one or more
will be able to get them.
Retail VCF Show Cost
Model Kit Assembled Kit Assembled
PiDP-1 Console <https://obsolescence.dev/pdp1.html> $225.00 $350.00
$232.50 $345.00
PiDP-1 Rack <https://obsolescence.dev/pdp1.html> $385.00 $560.00
$411.50 $569.00
PiDP-8 <https://obsolescence.dev/pdp8.html> $180.00 $305.00
$192.00
$304.50
PiDP-10 <https://obsolescence.dev/pdp10.html> $370.00 $545.00
$363.00
$520.50
PiDP-11 <https://obsolescence.dev/pdp11.html> $270.00 $395.00
$273.00
$385.50
Enigma Touch Single <https://obsolescence.dev/enigma-touch.html>
$185.00 $235.00 $246.50 $291.50
Enigma Touch Double <https://obsolescence.dev/enigma-touch.html>
$295.00 $395.00 $405.50 $495.50
Shipping is included in the VCF Show Cost.
There will be a $100/kit deposit on any pre-orders.
By pre-ordering and picking up at the show you will save on shipping
charges.
Any item for sale at Obsolescence Guaranteed
<https://obsolescence.dev/> will be available for pre-order.
Please note that all pre-orders must be in and the deposit paid before
August 15th so that I can have them here in time for the show.
Sales tax in Schaumburg is 10%. There will be a 3% surcharge if paying
by credit card.
Please forward this to anyone whom you feel might be interested.
If the few extra that I have at the show sell out, I will take
pre-orders at the show.
Please contact me directly to pre-order:
Michael Katz
mkatz(a)12bitzbest.com
+1 (773) 414-1044
2 Aug
2 Aug
1:07 p.m.
New subject: PiDP's available at VCF Midwest
There is a typo in this message, the correct email address is
bitwiz(a)12bitsbest.com.
I'm sorry for any confusion.
I have arranged to have a very small number of PiDP kits available for
sale at the VCF Midwest show in September.
I am taking pre-orders so that anyone who definitely wants one or more
will be able to get them.
Retail VCF Show Cost
Model Kit Assembled Kit Assembled
PiDP-1 Console <https://obsolescence.dev/pdp1.html> $225.00 $350.00
$232.50 $345.00
PiDP-1 Rack <https://obsolescence.dev/pdp1.html> $385.00 $560.00
$411.50 $569.00
PiDP-8 <https://obsolescence.dev/pdp8.html> $180.00 $305.00
$192.00
$304.50
PiDP-10 <https://obsolescence.dev/pdp10.html> $370.00 $545.00
$363.00
$520.50
PiDP-11 <https://obsolescence.dev/pdp11.html> $270.00 $395.00
$273.00
$385.50
Enigma Touch Panel Single <https://obsolescence.dev/enigma-touch.html>
$185.00
$246.50
Enigma Touch Panel Double <https://obsolescence.dev/enigma-touch.html>
$295.00
$405.50
Enigma Touch Case Single <https://obsolescence.dev/enigma-touch.html>
$235.00
$291.50
Enigma Touch Case Double <https://obsolescence.dev/enigma-touch.html>
$395.00
$495.50
Shipping is included in the VCF Show Cost.
There will be a $100/kit deposit on any pre-orders.
By pre-ordering and picking up at the show you will save on shipping
charges.
Any item for sale at Obsolescence Guaranteed
<https://obsolescence.dev/> will be available for pre-order.
Please note that all pre-orders must be in and the deposit paid before
August 15th so that I can have them here in time for the show.
Sales tax in Schaumburg is 10%. There will be a 3% surcharge if paying
by credit card and a 3.49% surcharge plus $0.49 for all paypal transactions.
Please forward this to anyone whom you feel might be interested.
If the few extra that I have at the show sell out, I will take
pre-orders at the show.
Please contact me directly to pre-order:
Michael Katz
pidp(a)vcfmw.org
3 Aug
3 Aug
11:50 p.m.
On Thu, 30 Jul 2026, Nigel Johnson Ham wrote:
On 2026-07-30 07:03, Christian Corti via cctalk wrote:
Some versions of the TU10 had Lamb vacuum cleaner motors with carbon brushes.
Different part. We are talking of the reel motors. They have a mechanical
friction brake attached to the shaft. Our MDS 252 on the other hand uses
magnetic powder brakes.
Christian
drive
braking mechanisms. I don't recall ANY DEC tape drive that had a
"braking mechanism", all control of the reels was done electronically.
DEC TU10
10 Aug
10 Aug
5:37 p.m.
New subject: Last Call to purchase a PiDP or enigma touch for pick up at VCF Midwest.
*Last Call for pre-orders:*
I have arranged to have a very small number of PiDP kits available for
sale at the VCF Midwest show in September.
I am taking pre-orders so that anyone who definitely wants one or more
will be able to get them.
Retail VCF Show Cost
Model Kit Assembled Kit Assembled
PiDP-1 Console <https://obsolescence.dev/pdp1.html> $225.00 $350.00
$232.50 $345.00
PiDP-1 Rack <https://obsolescence.dev/pdp1.html> $385.00 $560.00
$411.50 $569.00
PiDP-8 <https://obsolescence.dev/pdp8.html> $180.00 $305.00
$192.00
$304.50
PiDP-10 <https://obsolescence.dev/pdp10.html> $370.00 $545.00
$363.00
$520.50
PiDP-11 <https://obsolescence.dev/pdp11.html> $270.00 $395.00
$273.00
$385.50
Enigma Touch Panel Single <https://obsolescence.dev/enigma-touch.html>
$185.00
$246.50
Enigma Touch Panel Double <https://obsolescence.dev/enigma-touch.html>
$295.00
$405.50
Enigma Touch Case Single <https://obsolescence.dev/enigma-touch.html>
$235.00
$291.50
Enigma Touch Case Double <https://obsolescence.dev/enigma-touch.html>
$395.00
$495.50
Shipping is included in the VCF Show Cost.
There will be a $100/kit deposit on any pre-orders.
By pre-ordering and picking up at the show you will save on shipping
charges.
Any item for sale at Obsolescence Guaranteed
<https://obsolescence.dev/> will be available for pre-order.
Please note that all pre-orders must be in and the deposit paid before
August 15th so that I can have them here in time for the show.
Sales tax in Schaumburg is 10%. There will be a 3% surcharge if paying
by credit card and a 3.49% surcharge plus $0.49 for all paypal transactions.
Please forward this to anyone whom you feel might be interested.
If the few extra that I have at the show sell out, I will take
pre-orders at the show.
Please contact me directly to pre-order:
Michael Katz
pidp(a)vcfmw.org
10:29 p.m.
New subject: Last Call to purchase a PiDP or enigma touch for pick up at VCF Midwest.
This is becoming spam. It is everywhere in emails and Facebook groups.
On Tue, 11 Aug 2026, 2:24 pm Mike Katz via cctalk, <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
wrote:
*Last Call for pre-orders:*
I have arranged to have a very small number of PiDP kits available for
sale at the VCF Midwest show in September.
I am taking pre-orders so that anyone who definitely wants one or more
will be able to get them.
Retail VCF Show Cost
Model Kit Assembled Kit Assembled
PiDP-1 Console <https://obsolescence.dev/pdp1.html> $225.00
$350.00
$232.50 $345.00
PiDP-1 Rack <https://obsolescence.dev/pdp1.html> $385.00
$560.00
$411.50 $569.00
PiDP-8 <https://obsolescence.dev/pdp8.html> $180.00 $305.00
$192.00
$304.50
PiDP-10 <https://obsolescence.dev/pdp10.html> $370.00 $545.00
$363.00
$520.50
PiDP-11 <https://obsolescence.dev/pdp11.html> $270.00 $395.00
$273.00
$385.50
Enigma Touch Panel Single <https://obsolescence.dev/enigma-touch.html>
$185.00
$246.50
Enigma Touch Panel Double <https://obsolescence.dev/enigma-touch.html>
$295.00
$405.50
Enigma Touch Case Single <https://obsolescence.dev/enigma-touch.html>
$235.00
$291.50
Enigma Touch Case Double <https://obsolescence.dev/enigma-touch.html>
$395.00
$495.50
Shipping is included in the VCF Show Cost.
There will be a $100/kit deposit on any pre-orders.
By pre-ordering and picking up at the show you will save on shipping
charges.
Any item for sale at Obsolescence Guaranteed
<https://obsolescence.dev/> will be available for pre-order.
Please note that all pre-orders must be in and the deposit paid before
August 15th so that I can have them here in time for the show.
Sales tax in Schaumburg is 10%. There will be a 3% surcharge if paying
by credit card and a 3.49% surcharge plus $0.49 for all paypal
transactions.
Please forward this to anyone whom you feel might be interested.
If the few extra that I have at the show sell out, I will take
pre-orders at the show.
Please contact me directly to pre-order:
Michael Katz
pidp(a)vcfmw.org
11 Aug
11 Aug
7:04 a.m.
New subject: Last Call to purchase a PiDP or enigma touch for pick up at VCF Midwest.
In article <CAALEduD-76KnZs6SUoWkRnq+Kz1VYtyb8xzSOwmL95tL-hWr_g(a)mail.gmail.com> you
write:
This is becoming spam. It is everywhere in emails and
Facebook groups.
Farcebook is cancer, so that's your own problem for looking there.
As for me, I appreciate the email to cctalk because that's the only
place I've seen it.
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" free book
<http://tinyurl.com/d3d-pipeline>
The Terminals Wiki <http://terminals-wiki.org>
The Computer Graphics Museum <http://computergraphicsmuseum.org>
Legalize Adulthood! (my blog) <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com>
7:03 a.m.
New subject: Last Call to purchase a PiDP or enigma touch for pick up at VCF Midwest.
In article <0ab73539-39b5-4d56-a4a8-c40e317fd0f6(a)gmail.com> you write:
*Last Call for pre-orders:*
Michael Katz
pidp(a)vcfmw.org
Sent you a message to the pidp email. Why am I posting here too?
Because I often end up in people's spam folder... (long story, I was
never a spammer, but spammers forged spam email with my address.)
Thanks,
-- Richard
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" free book
<http://tinyurl.com/d3d-pipeline>
The Terminals Wiki <http://terminals-wiki.org>
The Computer Graphics Museum <http://computergraphicsmuseum.org>
Legalize Adulthood! (my blog) <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com>
30 Jul
30 Jul
3:36 a.m.
On Thu, Jul 30, 2026 at 12:03 PM Christian Corti via cctalk
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
> drive braking mechanisms. I don't recall ANY DEC tape drive that had a
> "braking mechanism", all control of the reels was done electronically.
What about the spindle motor brake in the R80 / RA80 / RM80 etc disk
drive? What did its friction disk contain?
-tony
9:16 a.m.
On Thu, Jul 30, 2026 at 01:03:22PM +0200, Christian Corti wrote:
On Wed, 29 Jul 2026, Jon Elson wrote:
Metal on metal magnetic brake. At least by the time I took it apart when
restoring my TU10. Some of the reel motor brushes were worn down to the metal.
Had a lot of hours.
https://www.pdp8online.com/tu10/tu10-repair.shtml
TU55 also has brake. Haven't taken one apart.
can't imagine where one would use asbestos in
a computer. You mention tape
Isolation/mounting pads on power resistors.
drive braking mechanisms. I don't recall ANY
DEC tape drive that had a
"braking mechanism", all control of the reels was done electronically.
DEC TU10
29 Jul
29 Jul
8:12 a.m.
i wondered, and ai confirmed, that vacuum tube computers likely
contained asbestos, but suggested in the vacuum tubes, so probably not
available unless there was destruction of vacuum tubes involved. And
I'm guessing this situation did not include vacuum tubes. AI says
that DEC only made transistorized computers.
<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail>
Virus-free.www.avast.com
<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail>
<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
On Wed, Jul 29, 2026 at 9:15 AM Alessandro Mazzini via cctalk
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
I'm not an expert and other people will , I assume, answer. But likely
asbestos was present in one or more than one of the clients locations (if we
assume a direct link vs any other external factor).
Here in Italy the old Olivetti had serious cases of asbestos but the issue
wasn't in the computers they manufactured. The issue was in the offices and
buildings of the manufacturing/development plant
-----Original Message-----
From: Jennifer Manibusan via cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Monday, June 22, 2026 11:08 PM
To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org
Cc: Jennifer Manibusan <JManibusan(a)mrhfmlaw.com>
Subject: [cctalk] DEC and Asbestos
Hello! Our office represents the family of a gentleman (Mr. Marsh) who
passed away from mesothelioma, a cancer caused from breathing asbestos. Mr.
Marsh spent his career working for a contractor that provided third-party
installation and maintenance of DEC computer equipment at various customer
locations. We are curious if any DEC equipment ever contained asbestos,
possibly asbestos lined brakes, gaskets etc. I am wondering if anyone in
this forum has personal knowledge or documentation of asbestos use in DEC
equipment OR if any of you have a tape drive with a braking mechanism that
we can test for asbestos content? I can be reached via email or on my cell
phone (925) 639-8593 with your thoughts. Thank you for your time!
Regards,
Jennifer Manibusan
Legal Investigator
Maune Raichle Hartley French & Mudd, LLC
1900 Powell Street, Suite 200
Emeryville, CA 94608
(925) 639-8593 Cell
(314) 241-2003 Office
This communication may be attorney-client privileged or otherwise
confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete this
message and notify the sender of this error.
--
--Carey
8:38 a.m.
Ur client was more likely exposed out in the field installing stuff in
clients buildings rather then their equipment themselves. As dust is
something we don't really want in computers and asbestos based breaks make
allot of dust. So highly unlikely.
On Wed, Jul 29, 2026, 11:09 a.m. Carey Schug via cctalk <
cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
i wondered, and ai confirmed, that vacuum tube
computers likely
contained asbestos, but suggested in the vacuum tubes, so probably not
available unless there was destruction of vacuum tubes involved. And
I'm guessing this situation did not include vacuum tubes. AI says
that DEC only made transistorized computers.
<
https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&ut…
Virus-free.www.avast.com
<
https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&ut…
<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
On Wed, Jul 29, 2026 at 9:15 AM Alessandro Mazzini via cctalk
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
> I'm not an expert and other people will , I assume, answer. But likely
> asbestos was present in one or more than one of the clients locations
(if we
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jennifer Manibusan via cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
> Sent: Monday, June 22, 2026 11:08 PM
> To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org
> Cc: Jennifer Manibusan <JManibusan(a)mrhfmlaw.com>
> Subject: [cctalk] DEC and Asbestos
> Hello! Our office represents the family of a gentleman (Mr. Marsh) who
> passed away from mesothelioma, a cancer caused from breathing asbestos.
Mr.
> Regards,
> Jennifer Manibusan
> Legal Investigator
> Maune Raichle Hartley French & Mudd, LLC
> 1900 Powell Street, Suite 200
> Emeryville, CA 94608
> (925) 639-8593 Cell
> (314) 241-2003 Office
> This communication may be attorney-client privileged or otherwise
> confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete this
> message and notify the sender of this error.
--
--Carey
assume a direct link vs any other external
factor).
Here in Italy the old Olivetti had serious cases of asbestos but the
issue
wasn't in the computers they manufactured.
The issue was in the offices
and
> buildings of the manufacturing/development plant
Marsh spent his career working for a contractor
that provided third-party
installation and maintenance of DEC computer equipment at various
customer
locations. We are curious if any DEC equipment
ever contained asbestos,
possibly asbestos lined brakes, gaskets etc. I am wondering if anyone in
this forum has personal knowledge or documentation of asbestos use in DEC
equipment OR if any of you have a tape drive with a braking mechanism
that
we can test for asbestos content? I can be
reached via email or on my
cell
> phone (925) 639-8593 with your thoughts. Thank you for your time!
10:34 a.m.
On 29/07/2026 17:12, Carey Schug via cctalk wrote:
i wondered, and ai confirmed, that vacuum tube
computers likely
contained asbestos, but suggested in the vacuum tubes, so probably not
available unless there was destruction of vacuum tubes involved. And
I'm guessing this situation did not include vacuum tubes. AI says
that DEC only made transistorized computers.
I would say AI is talking twaddle. Why
on earth would a tube contain
asbestos? When I asked "do vacuum tubes contain asbestos" the AI I
chose said NO!.
You might get asbestos as heat shielding, for example to allow the
temperature of mercury delay lines, core memory or drum memories to be
kept at a constant temperature, but in a thermionic valve?
They generally use Mica and Glass but I guess you could use asbestos as
well...
If there were issues with asbestos on DEC computers , which were in
common use , and very much hands on, then we would have an epidemic of
mesothelioma.
As others have said much more likely it came from the buildings. It was
widely used in building materials. For those affected in the UK
https://tandnasbestos.org.uk/companies/
I any case I don't believe the requestor is looking at the replies, they
asked for direct responses...
Dave
G4UGM
<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail>
Virus-free.www.avast.com
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On Wed, Jul 29, 2026 at 9:15 AM Alessandro Mazzini via cctalk
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
I'm not an expert and other people will , I
assume, answer. But likely
asbestos was present in one or more than one of the clients locations (if we
assume a direct link vs any other external factor).
Here in Italy the old Olivetti had serious cases of asbestos but the issue
wasn't in the computers they manufactured. The issue was in the offices and
buildings of the manufacturing/development plant
-----Original Message-----
From: Jennifer Manibusan via cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Monday, June 22, 2026 11:08 PM
To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org
Cc: Jennifer Manibusan <JManibusan(a)mrhfmlaw.com>
Subject: [cctalk] DEC and Asbestos
Hello! Our office represents the family of a gentleman (Mr. Marsh) who
passed away from mesothelioma, a cancer caused from breathing asbestos. Mr.
Marsh spent his career working for a contractor that provided third-party
installation and maintenance of DEC computer equipment at various customer
locations. We are curious if any DEC equipment ever contained asbestos,
possibly asbestos lined brakes, gaskets etc. I am wondering if anyone in
this forum has personal knowledge or documentation of asbestos use in DEC
equipment OR if any of you have a tape drive with a braking mechanism that
we can test for asbestos content? I can be reached via email or on my cell
phone (925) 639-8593 with your thoughts. Thank you for your time!
Regards,
Jennifer Manibusan
Legal Investigator
Maune Raichle Hartley French & Mudd, LLC
1900 Powell Street, Suite 200
Emeryville, CA 94608
(925) 639-8593 Cell
(314) 241-2003 Office
This communication may be attorney-client privileged or otherwise
confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete this
message and notify the sender of this error.
11:27 a.m.
I would never cite AI for *anything* Until the most recent models I
could easily get them into situations where they would advise me to
drink brake fluid for tummy troubles.
In terms of the original question I have never encountered asbestos in
any DEC products going back to the pdp12 or pdp8/L systems of the 1960's.
Chris
12:07 p.m.
New subject: OT: Re: DEC and Asbestos
On Wed, 29 Jul 2026, Chris Zach via cctalk wrote:
I would never cite AI for *anything* Until the most
recent models I could
easily get them into situations where they would advise me to drink brake
fluid for tummy troubles.
In terms of the original question I have never encountered asbestos in any
DEC products going back to the pdp12 or pdp8/L systems of the 1960's.
Hmmm. Was it earlier POTUS AI that provided 45 with the idea for Clorox
Chewables, and rectal flashlights for Covid treatment? :-)
12:29 p.m.
New subject: OT: Re: DEC and Asbestos
Fred Cisin via cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
Hmmm. Was it earlier POTUS AI that provided 45 with
the idea for Clorox
Chewables, and rectal flashlights for Covid treatment? :-)
Why does Covid, or any other deadly disease for that matter, need any
treatment at all? Why are people so unwilling to accept death as a
natural and necessary part of the cycle of life?
A hint for the next pandemic, whatever and whenever it will be: if you
find yourself living on an overpopulated planet and there is a deadly
pandemic coming your way, saving lives is the WRONG thing to do!
Instead the right course of action is to let it rip, be intentionally
UNSAFE as much as possible, and let natural selection play out:
survival of the fittest! Any evolutionary biologist or population
ecologist will tell you that the overall health of a population
improves when its weakest members are culled - hence my ritual chant
from 2020 into 2021, dancing around a fire UNMASKED and intentionally
coughing in every direction:
Spread the Covid far and wide,
Let the weak and feeble die!
And yes, I did catch Covid intentionally in 2020-Dec, after whole 9
months of unsuccessfully trying. I took no treatment whatsoever,
neither mainstream nor alternative, I refused to be tested or
hospitalized or put on any official counts, and I let Goddess decide
whether I should live or die. Since I am still alive despite having
done everything in my power to speed up my death, I now assume that
She still needs me down here - probably to take care of various retro
technologies, such as the one in my email domain, plus more traditional
ClassicCmp fare like VAXen.
Blessed Be,
Priestess Mychaela
P.S. While I am certainly anti-vaxx, I am also pro-VAX - DEC VAX
computer architecture, that is! My favourite architecture by far.
1:05 p.m.
New subject: OT: Re: DEC and Asbestos
On Wed, Jul 29, 2026 at 4:37 PM Mychaela Falconia via cctalk <
cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
Fred Cisin via cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
wrote:
Hmmm. Was it earlier POTUS AI that provided 45
with the idea for Clorox
Chewables, and rectal flashlights for Covid treatment? :-)
Why does Covid, or any other deadly disease for that matter, need any
treatment at all? Why are people so unwilling to accept death as a
natural and necessary part of the cycle of life?
A hint for the next pandemic, whatever and whenever it will be: if you
find yourself living on an overpopulated planet and there is a deadly
pandemic coming your way, saving lives is the WRONG thing to do!
Instead the right course of action is to let it rip, be intentionally
UNSAFE as much as possible, and let natural selection play out:
survival of the fittest! Any evolutionary biologist or population
ecologist will tell you that the overall health of a population
improves when its weakest members are culled - hence my ritual chant
from 2020 into 2021, dancing around a fire UNMASKED and intentionally
coughing in every direction:
Spread the Covid far and wide,
Let the weak and feeble die!
And yes, I did catch Covid intentionally in 2020-Dec, after whole 9
months of unsuccessfully trying. I took no treatment whatsoever,
neither mainstream nor alternative, I refused to be tested or
hospitalized or put on any official counts, and I let Goddess decide
whether I should live or die. Since I am still alive despite having
done everything in my power to speed up my death, I now assume that
She still needs me down here - probably to take care of various retro
technologies, such as the one in my email domain, plus more traditional
ClassicCmp fare like VAXen.
Blessed Be,
Priestess Mychaela
P.S. While I am certainly anti-vaxx, I am also pro-VAX - DEC VAX
computer architecture, that is! My favourite architecture by far.
1:17 p.m.
On Jul 29, 2026, at 12:12 PM, Carey Schug via cctalk
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
i wondered, and ai confirmed, that vacuum tube computers likely
contained asbestos, but suggested in the vacuum tubes, so probably not
available unless there was destruction of vacuum tubes involved.
I don't believe that. I have never seen and can't imagine a vacuum tube with
asbestos. What you will find in many small vacuum tubes is mica -- typical receiver tubes
(which is what you'd see in a computer) have the elements mounted between two small
sheets of mica. But asbestor is porous and fibrous, there isn't any use for that in
tubes I can think of.
Just another AI hallucination.
paul
1:58 p.m.
IIRC the Feranti Pegassus computer which graced the London Science Museum until about 10
years ago was blackballed and moved into storage as some electrical distribution
switchgear (fuses ?) "contained asbestos".
https://collection.sciencemuseumgroup.org.uk/objects/co62559/ferranti-pegas…
A sad end, but I guess it failed the can the "acompanying adults" explain it
test ...
Martin
-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Koning via cctalk [mailto:cctalk@classiccmp.org]
Sent: 29 July 2026 21:17
To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org
Cc: Carey Schug <carey.schug(a)gmail.com>om>; Paul Koning <paulkoning(a)comcast.net>
Subject: [cctalk] Re: DEC and Asbestos
On Jul 29, 2026, at 12:12 PM, Carey Schug via cctalk
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
i wondered, and ai confirmed, that vacuum tube computers likely
contained asbestos, but suggested in the vacuum tubes, so probably not
available unless there was destruction of vacuum tubes involved.
I don't believe that. I have never seen and can't imagine a vacuum tube with
asbestos. What you will find in many small vacuum tubes is mica -- typical receiver tubes
(which is what you'd see in a computer) have the elements mounted between two small
sheets of mica. But asbestor is porous and fibrous, there isn't any use for that in
tubes I can think of.
Just another AI hallucination.
paul
2:08 p.m.
it's much more likely asbestosnis in the walls and building structure than
a dec computer
b
On Wed, Jul 29, 2026 at 5:58 PM Martin Bishop via cctalk <
cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
IIRC the Feranti Pegassus computer which graced the
London Science Museum
until about 10 years ago was blackballed and moved into storage as some
electrical distribution switchgear (fuses ?) "contained asbestos".
https://collection.sciencemuseumgroup.org.uk/objects/co62559/ferranti-pegas…
A sad end, but I guess it failed the can the "acompanying adults" explain
it test ...
Martin
-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Koning via cctalk [mailto:cctalk@classiccmp.org]
Sent: 29 July 2026 21:17
To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org
Cc: Carey Schug <carey.schug(a)gmail.com>om>; Paul Koning <
paulkoning(a)comcast.net>
Subject: [cctalk] Re: DEC and Asbestos
On Jul 29, 2026, at 12:12 PM, Carey Schug via
cctalk <
cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
i wondered, and ai confirmed, that vacuum tube computers likely
contained asbestos, but suggested in the vacuum tubes, so probably not
available unless there was destruction of vacuum tubes involved.
I don't believe that. I have never seen and can't imagine a vacuum tube
with asbestos. What you will find in many small vacuum tubes is mica --
typical receiver tubes (which is what you'd see in a computer) have the
elements mounted between two small sheets of mica. But asbestor is porous
and fibrous, there isn't any use for that in tubes I can think of.
Just another AI hallucination.
paul
30 Jul
30 Jul
3:04 a.m.
On Wed, 29 Jul 2026, Carey Schug wrote:
i wondered, and ai confirmed, that vacuum tube
computers likely
contained asbestos, but suggested in the vacuum tubes, so probably not
Go back to school and learn the old-fashioned way. Never trust AI, always
verify the results.
Asbestos _in_ vacuum tubes ... *lol*
Christian
3:16 a.m.
On Thu, Jul 30, 2026 at 12:05 PM Christian Corti via cctalk
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
On Wed, 29 Jul 2026, Carey Schug wrote:
Perhaps you should learn the very old-fashioned way of valves/vacuum tubes :-)
There were some very early triodes that deliberately contains residual
gas. See here
https://www.museumoftechnology.org.uk/objects/_expand.php?key=954
There was a little side/top tube containing asbestos that you heated
to release some of said gas that was adsorbed onto the asbestos.
So yes, some valves _do_ contain asbestos. But it would only be a
hazard if the glass was broken.
And if such a valve was ever used in any DEC computer or peripheral I
almost say I'll eat a PDP11!
-tony
i wondered, and ai confirmed, that vacuum tube
computers likely
contained asbestos, but suggested in the vacuum tubes, so probably not
Go back to school and learn the old-fashioned way. Never trust AI, always
verify the results.
Asbestos _in_ vacuum tubes ... *lol*
8:31 a.m.
On Jul 30, 2026, at 7:16 AM, Tony Duell via cctalk
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
On Thu, Jul 30, 2026 at 12:05 PM Christian Corti via cctalk
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
Indeed. This one example seems utterly bizarre, and I suspect may be the only instance of
this sort of thing. "Soft vacuum" tubes doesn't sound very sensible, though
of course gas filled tubes are common (thyratrons and ignitrons, not to mention mercury
vapor filled rectifiers like the famous 866).
paul
On Wed, 29 Jul 2026, Carey Schug wrote:
Perhaps you should learn the very old-fashioned way of valves/vacuum tubes :-)
There were some very early triodes that deliberately contains residual
gas. See here
https://www.museumoftechnology.org.uk/objects/_expand.php?key=954
There was a little side/top tube containing asbestos that you heated
to release some of said gas that was adsorbed onto the asbestos.
So yes, some valves _do_ contain asbestos. But it would only be a
hazard if the glass was broken.
And if such a valve was ever used in any DEC computer or peripheral I
almost say I'll eat a PDP11! i wondered, and ai confirmed, that vacuum tube
computers likely
contained asbestos, but suggested in the vacuum tubes, so probably not
Go back to school and learn the old-fashioned way. Never trust AI, always
verify the results.
Asbestos _in_ vacuum tubes ... *lol*
4 Aug
4 Aug
12:10 a.m.
On Thu, 30 Jul 2026, Tony Duell wrote:
Perhaps you should learn the very old-fashioned way of
valves/vacuum tubes :-)
There were some very early triodes that deliberately contains residual
gas. See here
https://www.museumoftechnology.org.uk/objects/_expand.php?key=954
There was a little side/top tube containing asbestos that you heated
to release some of said gas that was adsorbed onto the asbestos.
Interesting. The description there is a bit mis-leading. Asbestos does not
release any own gasses when heated. Instead, it can (obviously) bind gas
and release it. Never heard of that, to be honest. And apparently those
Marconi valves are the only valves with that asbestos tube on the top. So
practically, no valve contains asbestos, _except_ those Marconi.
Christian
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days inactive
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32 comments
22 participants
participants (22)
-
Adrian Stoness -
alessandro.mazzini＠gmail.com -
Bill Degnan -
Carey Schug -
Chris Zach -
Christian Corti -
David Gesswein -
David Wade -
Fred Cisin -
Jennifer Manibusan -
Jon Elson -
Martin Bishop -
Michael Thompson -
Mike Katz -
Mike Katz -
Mychaela Falconia -
Nigel Johnson Ham -
Paul Koning -
Richard -
Tom Hunter -
Tony Duell -
William Donzelli