19 Oct
2024
19 Oct
'24
10:20 a.m.
On 10/19/2024 12:00 PM, cctalk-request(a)classiccmp.org wrote:
[cctalk] Re: RSX11M installation on real PDP11
You may want to use simh (where you'll be able to
mount tapes and RL02
images) to do the installation and generate an RD32 image. Once you have
the disk image, use vtserver (note - some versions are limited to 32MB
images, but there are some that remove that limitation - check if the
struct vtcmd in vtserver.c uses 2 or 4 bytes for the block number), or
PDP11GUI (Windows only) to transfer the RD32 disk image to your PDP over a
serial port.
If you go this route, be advised, that SIMH creates RD32 disk images are not the same
size as a real RD32. This will likely cause problems when writing a SIMH created image to
a real disk (and I'm not talking about the additional issues that the trailing
metadata on disk images from the Pizzolato version of SIMH can cause - the problem I'm
describing is caused by an incorrect disk size value in SIMH).
--
Lee K. Gleason N5ZMR
Control-G Consultants
lee.gleason(a)comcast.net
19 Oct
19 Oct
11:18 a.m.
New subject: RSX11M installation on real PDP11
If you go this route, be advised, that SIMH creates
RD32 disk images
are not the same size as a real RD32. This will likely cause problems
when writing a SIMH created image to a real disk (and I'm not talking
about the additional issues that the trailing metadata on disk images
from the Pizzolato version of SIMH can cause - the problem I'm
describing is caused by an incorrect disk size value in SIMH).
True, I think you can get around this by making the disk in SIMH a
couple of blocks smaller.
However there is another way. Format your real RD32 with the RQDX3
formatter, then once formatted suck it into a file. Then you have an
exact replica you can mount in SIMH and load it up.
I did this with a 154mb Hitachi ESDI MCSP disk that went "bad" 30 years
ago and would not boot. Sucked it in, booted RSX11M off a virtual drive,
then mounted it. Turns out when I did a purge of old files I deleted the
RSX11M.TSK file I was using to boot because I forgot to do a /SAV /WB in
VMR to update the boot block to the new file location. Did that, system
booted, then copied it back to the "real" Hitachi disk.
Back in operation. :-)
20 Oct
20 Oct
6:02 a.m.
New subject: RSX11M installation on real PDP11
Thank you all for the tips and pointers. I like the idea of pulling the
image off of my real drive, but how would I transfer it between the pdp and
my Linux box with Simh? It is too big for the tu58 emulator.
On Sun, Oct 20, 2024 at 03:15 cz via cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
If you go
this route, be advised, that SIMH creates RD32 disk images
are not the same size as a real RD32. This will likely cause problems
when writing a SIMH created image to a real disk (and I'm not talking
about the additional issues that the trailing metadata on disk images
from the Pizzolato version of SIMH can cause - the problem I'm
describing is caused by an incorrect disk size value in SIMH).
True, I think you can get around this by making them disk in SIMH a
couple of blocks smaller.
However there is another way. Format your real RD32 with the RQDX3
formatter, then once formatted suck it into a file. Then you have an
exact replica you can mount in SIMH and load it up.
I did this with a 154mb Hitachi ESDI MCSP disk that went "bad" 30 years
ago and would not boot. Sucked it in, booted RSX11M off a virtual drive,
then mounted it. Turns out when I did a purge of old files I deleted the
RSX11M.TSK file I was using to boot because I forgot to do a /SAV /WB in
VMR to update the boot block to the new file location. Did that, system
booted, then copied it back to the "real" Hitachi disk.
Back in operation. :-)
6:23 a.m.
New subject: RSX11M installation on real PDP11
use pdp11gui or vtserver. They can use ODT to upload a small program to
the 11 which allows it to send or receive an image to a MCSP or
RL/RX/Whatever drive. Can be slow (top speed is 9600 or 19200 baud on an
11/23) but it does get the job done.
C
On 10/20/2024 9:02 AM, Peter Ekstrom wrote:
Thank you all for the tips and pointers. I like the
idea of pulling the
image off of my real drive, but how would I transfer it between the pdp
and my Linux box with Simh? It is too big for the tu58 emulator.
On Sun, Oct 20, 2024 at 03:15 cz via cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org
<mailto:cctalk@classiccmp.org>> wrote:
If you go this route, be advised, that SIMH
creates RD32 disk
images
are not the same size as a real RD32. This will
likely cause
problems
when writing a SIMH created image to a real disk
(and I'm not
talking
about the additional issues that the trailing
metadata on disk
images
from the Pizzolato version of SIMH can cause -
the problem I'm
describing is caused by an incorrect disk size value in SIMH).
True, I think you can get around this by making them disk in SIMH a
couple of blocks smaller.
However there is another way. Format your real RD32 with the RQDX3
formatter, then once formatted suck it into a file. Then you have an
exact replica you can mount in SIMH and load it up.
I did this with a 154mb Hitachi ESDI MCSP disk that went "bad" 30 years
ago and would not boot. Sucked it in, booted RSX11M off a virtual
drive,
then mounted it. Turns out when I did a purge of old files I deleted
the
RSX11M.TSK file I was using to boot because I forgot to do a /SAV /
WB in
VMR to update the boot block to the new file location. Did that, system
booted, then copied it back to the "real" Hitachi disk.
Back in operation. :-)
6:30 a.m.
New subject: RSX11M installation on real PDP11
Aha! Ok great, I need to look closer at those then. Thank you!
On Sun, Oct 20, 2024 at 9:23 AM cz <cz(a)alembic.crystel.com> wrote:
use pdp11gui or vtserver. They can use ODT to upload a
small program to
the 11 which allows it to send or receive an image to a MCSP or
RL/RX/Whatever drive. Can be slow (top speed is 9600 or 19200 baud on an
11/23) but it does get the job done.
C
On 10/20/2024 9:02 AM, Peter Ekstrom wrote:
Thank you all for the tips and pointers. I like
the idea of pulling the
image off of my real drive, but how would I transfer it between the pdp
and my Linux box with Simh? It is too big for the tu58 emulator.
On Sun, Oct 20, 2024 at 03:15 cz via cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org
<mailto:cctalk@classiccmp.org>> wrote:
years
If you go this route, be advised, that SIMH
creates RD32 disk
images
are not the same size as a real RD32. This will
likely cause
problems
when writing a SIMH created image to a real disk
(and I'm not
talking
about the additional issues that the trailing
metadata on disk
images
from the Pizzolato version of SIMH can cause -
the problem I'm
describing is caused by an incorrect disk size value in SIMH).
True, I think you can get around this by making them disk in SIMH a
couple of blocks smaller.
However there is another way. Format your real RD32 with the RQDX3
formatter, then once formatted suck it into a file. Then you have an
exact replica you can mount in SIMH and load it up.
I did this with a 154mb Hitachi ESDI MCSP disk that went "bad" 30
ago and would not boot. Sucked it in, booted
RSX11M off a virtual
drive,
then mounted it. Turns out when I did a purge of old files I deleted
the
RSX11M.TSK file I was using to boot because I forgot to do a /SAV /
WB in
VMR to update the boot block to the new file location. Did that,
system
booted, then copied it back to the
"real" Hitachi disk.
Back in operation. :-)
21 Oct
21 Oct
7:27 a.m.
New subject: RSX11M installation on real PDP11
Hmm, not sure why yet, but I'm not able to get vtserver to work. I have
entered the bootcode manually in ODT, and I have had vtserver send it.
It looks like it loads the code and then reads one record but then hangs.
I'm wondering if my version of ODT on the CPU board needs something to be
handled differently.
Btw, the version I have found of vtserver is 2.3.1.5. I can't seem to find
anything later than that.
I am going to try PDP11GUI but I am waiting on a supported USB-RS232
adapter to arrive. The ones I have aren't supported under Windows anymore.
I should have it tomorrow.
-Peter
On Sun, Oct 20, 2024 at 9:30 AM Peter Ekstrom <epekstrom(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Aha! Ok great, I need to look closer at those then.
Thank you!
On Sun, Oct 20, 2024 at 9:23 AM cz <cz(a)alembic.crystel.com> wrote:
> use pdp11gui or vtserver. They can use ODT to upload a small program to
> the 11 which allows it to send or receive an image to a MCSP or
> RL/RX/Whatever drive. Can be slow (top speed is 9600 or 19200 baud on an
> 11/23) but it does get the job done.
>
> C
>
>
> On 10/20/2024 9:02 AM, Peter Ekstrom wrote:
> > Thank you all for the tips and pointers. I like the idea of pulling the
> > image off of my real drive, but how would I transfer it between the pdp
> > and my Linux box with Simh? It is too big for the tu58 emulator.
> >
> > On Sun, Oct 20, 2024 at 03:15 cz via cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org
> > <mailto:cctalk@classiccmp.org>> wrote:
> >
> > > If you go this route, be advised, that SIMH creates RD32 disk
> > images
> > > are not the same size as a real RD32. This will likely cause
> > problems
> > > when writing a SIMH created image to a real disk (and I'm not
> > talking
> > > about the additional issues that the trailing metadata on disk
> > images
> > > from the Pizzolato version of SIMH can cause - the problem I'm
> > > describing is caused by an incorrect disk size value in SIMH).
> >
> > True, I think you can get around this by making them disk in SIMH a
> > couple of blocks smaller.
> >
> > However there is another way. Format your real RD32 with the RQDX3
> > formatter, then once formatted suck it into a file. Then you have an
> > exact replica you can mount in SIMH and load it up.
> >
> > I did this with a 154mb Hitachi ESDI MCSP disk that went "bad"
30
> years
> > ago and would not boot. Sucked it in, booted RSX11M off a virtual
> > drive,
> > then mounted it. Turns out when I did a purge of old files I deleted
> > the
> > RSX11M.TSK file I was using to boot because I forgot to do a /SAV /
> > WB in
> > VMR to update the boot block to the new file location. Did that,
> system
> > booted, then copied it back to the "real" Hitachi disk.
> >
> > Back in operation. :-)
> >
>
>
8:10 a.m.
New subject: RSX11M installation on real PDP11
My 11/23 is not accessible, but I believe I've used this version a couple
of years ago (on a Raspberry Pi): https://github.com/drboone/vtserver
On Mon, Oct 21, 2024 at 7:45 AM Peter Ekstrom via cctalk <
cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
Hmm, not sure why yet, but I'm not able to get
vtserver to work. I have
entered the bootcode manually in ODT, and I have had vtserver send it.
It looks like it loads the code and then reads one record but then hangs.
I'm wondering if my version of ODT on the CPU board needs something to be
handled differently.
Btw, the version I have found of vtserver is 2.3.1.5. I can't seem to find
anything later than that.
I am going to try PDP11GUI but I am waiting on a supported USB-RS232
adapter to arrive. The ones I have aren't supported under Windows anymore.
I should have it tomorrow.
-Peter
On Sun, Oct 20, 2024 at 9:30 AM Peter Ekstrom <epekstrom(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Aha! Ok great, I need to look closer at those
then. Thank you!
On Sun, Oct 20, 2024 at 9:23 AM cz <cz(a)alembic.crystel.com> wrote:
> use pdp11gui or vtserver. They can use ODT to upload a small program to
> the 11 which allows it to send or receive an image to a MCSP or
> RL/RX/Whatever drive. Can be slow (top speed is 9600 or 19200 baud on an
> 11/23) but it does get the job done.
>
> C
>
>
> On 10/20/2024 9:02 AM, Peter Ekstrom wrote:
> > Thank you all for the tips and pointers. I like the idea of pulling
the
> > image off of my real drive, but how
would I transfer it between the
pdp
> > and my Linux box with Simh? It is too
big for the tu58 emulator.
> >
> > On Sun, Oct 20, 2024 at 03:15 cz via cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org
> > <mailto:cctalk@classiccmp.org>> wrote:
> >
> > > If you go this route, be advised, that SIMH creates RD32
disk
> > images
> > > are not the same size as a real RD32. This will likely cause
> > problems
> > > when writing a SIMH created image to a real disk (and I'm not
> > talking
> > > about the additional issues that the trailing metadata on disk
> > images
> > > from the Pizzolato version of SIMH can cause - the problem I'm
> > > describing is caused by an incorrect disk size value in SIMH).
> >
> > True, I think you can get around this by making them disk in
SIMH a
> > couple of blocks smaller.
> >
> > However there is another way. Format your real RD32 with the RQDX3
> > formatter, then once formatted suck it into a file. Then you have
an
> > exact replica you can mount in SIMH
and load it up.
> >
> > I did this with a 154mb Hitachi ESDI MCSP disk that went "bad"
30
> years
> > ago and would not boot. Sucked it in, booted RSX11M off a virtual
> > drive,
> > then mounted it. Turns out when I did a purge of old files I
deleted
> > the
> > RSX11M.TSK file I was using to boot because I forgot to do a /SAV
/
> > WB in
> > VMR to update the boot block to the new file location. Did that,
> system
> > booted, then copied it back to the "real" Hitachi disk.
> >
> > Back in operation. :-)
> >
>
>
8:54 a.m.
New subject: RSX11M installation on real PDP11
Awesome! That appears to work. So even though it has the same version
number as the one I have tried from another git repo, it is different.
Thank you for this information!
-Peter
On Mon, Oct 21, 2024 at 11:10 AM Nadav Eiron <nadav.eiron(a)gmail.com> wrote:
My 11/23 is not accessible, but I believe I've
used this version a couple
of years ago (on a Raspberry Pi): https://github.com/drboone/vtserver
On Mon, Oct 21, 2024 at 7:45 AM Peter Ekstrom via cctalk <
cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
Hmm, not sure why yet, but I'm not able to
get vtserver to work. I have
entered the bootcode manually in ODT, and I have had vtserver send it.
It looks like it loads the code and then reads one record but then hangs.
I'm wondering if my version of ODT on the CPU board needs something to be
handled differently.
Btw, the version I have found of vtserver is 2.3.1.5. I can't seem to find
anything later than that.
I am going to try PDP11GUI but I am waiting on a supported USB-RS232
adapter to arrive. The ones I have aren't supported under Windows anymore.
I should have it tomorrow.
-Peter
On Sun, Oct 20, 2024 at 9:30 AM Peter Ekstrom <epekstrom(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
Aha! Ok great, I need to look closer at those
then. Thank you!
On Sun, Oct 20, 2024 at 9:23 AM cz <cz(a)alembic.crystel.com> wrote:
> use pdp11gui or vtserver. They can use ODT to upload a small program to
> the 11 which allows it to send or receive an image to a MCSP or
> RL/RX/Whatever drive. Can be slow (top speed is 9600 or 19200 baud on
an
> 11/23) but it does get the job done.
>
> C
>
>
> On 10/20/2024 9:02 AM, Peter Ekstrom wrote:
> > Thank you all for the tips and pointers. I like the idea of pulling
the
> > image off of my real drive, but how
would I transfer it between the
pdp
> > and my Linux box with Simh? It is too
big for the tu58 emulator.
> >
> > On Sun, Oct 20, 2024 at 03:15 cz via cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org
> > <mailto:cctalk@classiccmp.org>> wrote:
> >
> > > If you go this route, be advised, that SIMH creates RD32
disk
> > images
> > > are not the same size as a real RD32. This will likely cause
> > problems
> > > when writing a SIMH created image to a real disk (and I'm not
> > talking
> > > about the additional issues that the trailing metadata on disk
> > images
> > > from the Pizzolato version of SIMH can cause - the problem I'm
> > > describing is caused by an incorrect disk size value in SIMH).
> >
> > True, I think you can get around this by making them disk in
SIMH a
> > couple of blocks smaller.
> >
> > However there is another way. Format your real RD32 with the
RQDX3
> > formatter, then once formatted suck
it into a file. Then you
have an
> > exact replica you can mount in SIMH
and load it up.
> >
> > I did this with a 154mb Hitachi ESDI MCSP disk that went "bad"
30
> years
> > ago and would not boot. Sucked it in, booted RSX11M off a virtual
> > drive,
> > then mounted it. Turns out when I did a purge of old files I
deleted
> > the
> > RSX11M.TSK file I was using to boot because I forgot to do a
/SAV /
> > WB in
> > VMR to update the boot block to the new file location. Did that,
> system
> > booted, then copied it back to the "real" Hitachi disk.
> >
> > Back in operation. :-)
> >
>
>
7:15 p.m.
New subject: RSX11M installation on real PDP11
Alright! I booted up RSX11M 4.2 a little bit ago on my 11/23-plus! I had
logged in to one of my Linux machines from my work laptop to run the copy,
and of course they installed Windows updates and it needed to reboot. But I
have a little more than half of the disk image copied over so I was able to
boot it up. Very exciting! I'll start the copy over a bit later in the week
when I can let it run longer. I also have a DECNA card in the machine now
so I can install DECnet and play with that uner RSX. I wish I could install
TCP/IP but I understand the hardware doesn't have the separate I/D space so
it won't work.
Thanks again for all the pointers and tips!
-Peter
On Mon, Oct 21, 2024 at 11:54 AM Peter Ekstrom <epekstrom(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Awesome! That appears to work. So even though it has
the same version
number as the one I have tried from another git repo, it is different.
Thank you for this information!
-Peter
On Mon, Oct 21, 2024 at 11:10 AM Nadav Eiron <nadav.eiron(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
> My 11/23 is not accessible, but I believe I've used this version a couple
> of years ago (on a Raspberry Pi): https://github.com/drboone/vtserver
>
> On Mon, Oct 21, 2024 at 7:45 AM Peter Ekstrom via cctalk <
> cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
>
>> Hmm, not sure why yet, but I'm not able to get vtserver to work. I have
>> entered the bootcode manually in ODT, and I have had vtserver send it.
>> It looks like it loads the code and then reads one record but then hangs.
>> I'm wondering if my version of ODT on the CPU board needs something to be
>> handled differently.
>> Btw, the version I have found of vtserver is 2.3.1.5. I can't seem to
>> find
>> anything later than that.
>>
>> I am going to try PDP11GUI but I am waiting on a supported USB-RS232
>> adapter to arrive. The ones I have aren't supported under Windows
>> anymore.
>> I should have it tomorrow.
>>
>> -Peter
>>
>> On Sun, Oct 20, 2024 at 9:30 AM Peter Ekstrom <epekstrom(a)gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > Aha! Ok great, I need to look closer at those then. Thank you!
>> >
>> > On Sun, Oct 20, 2024 at 9:23 AM cz <cz(a)alembic.crystel.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> use pdp11gui or vtserver. They can use ODT to upload a small program
>> to
>> >> the 11 which allows it to send or receive an image to a MCSP or
>> >> RL/RX/Whatever drive. Can be slow (top speed is 9600 or 19200 baud on
>> an
>> >> 11/23) but it does get the job done.
>> >>
>> >> C
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On 10/20/2024 9:02 AM, Peter Ekstrom wrote:
>> >> > Thank you all for the tips and pointers. I like the idea of
pulling
>> the
>> >> > image off of my real drive, but how would I transfer it between
the
>> pdp
>> >> > and my Linux box with Simh? It is too big for the tu58 emulator.
>> >> >
>> >> > On Sun, Oct 20, 2024 at 03:15 cz via cctalk
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org
>> >> > <mailto:cctalk@classiccmp.org>> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > > If you go this route, be advised, that SIMH creates
RD32
>> disk
>> >> > images
>> >> > > are not the same size as a real RD32. This will likely
cause
>> >> > problems
>> >> > > when writing a SIMH created image to a real disk (and
I'm not
>> >> > talking
>> >> > > about the additional issues that the trailing metadata
on
>> disk
>> >> > images
>> >> > > from the Pizzolato version of SIMH can cause - the
problem
>> I'm
>> >> > > describing is caused by an incorrect disk size value in
>> SIMH).
>> >> >
>> >> > True, I think you can get around this by making them disk in
>> SIMH a
>> >> > couple of blocks smaller.
>> >> >
>> >> > However there is another way. Format your real RD32 with the
>> RQDX3
>> >> > formatter, then once formatted suck it into a file. Then you
>> have an
>> >> > exact replica you can mount in SIMH and load it up.
>> >> >
>> >> > I did this with a 154mb Hitachi ESDI MCSP disk that went
"bad"
>> 30
>> >> years
>> >> > ago and would not boot. Sucked it in, booted RSX11M off a
>> virtual
>> >> > drive,
>> >> > then mounted it. Turns out when I did a purge of old files I
>> deleted
>> >> > the
>> >> > RSX11M.TSK file I was using to boot because I forgot to do a
>> /SAV /
>> >> > WB in
>> >> > VMR to update the boot block to the new file location. Did
that,
>> >> system
>> >> > booted, then copied it back to the "real" Hitachi
disk.
>> >> >
>> >> > Back in operation. :-)
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>>
>
66
days inactive
69
days old
8 comments
4 participants
participants (4)
-
cz -
Lee Gleason -
Nadav Eiron -
Peter Ekstrom