On 4/27/2024 7:43 AM, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote: Magazine cover january, and into 1975 the revolution. So I'd say all year. Not one specific date

Magazine cover january, and into 1975 the revolution. So I'd say all

I had that magazine. Wish I hadn't thrown it away oh so many years ago.

Having grown up with 1.44MB 3.5" floppies, I have a question: is it possible to use a 1.44MB disk and just format it as a 720K disk?

What errors are you seeing? Sent from my iPhone > On Apr 30, 2024, at 12:29, Mike Katz via cctalk > <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > > I have tried bulk erasing 1.44 MB disks and they still won't format > in the HP9114A battery operated HP-IL Floppy Disk drive. > >> On 4/30/2024 12:20 PM, Joshua Rice via cctalk wrote: >>> On 30/04/2024 18:08, Anders Nelson via cctalk wrote: >>> >>> Having grown up with 1.44MB 3.5" floppies, I have a question: is it >>> possible to use a 1.44MB disk and just format it as a 720K disk? >> I think it's entirely possible. I'd definitely format them in a >> 720kb drive though to be extra safe. Though original 720KB disks >> written/formatted  in 1.44MB drives seem perfectly cromulent from >> my experience. >> >> However don't quote me on it, The only double density drives i have >> are super early Sony ones built in 1982 and they get pampered with >> NOS 720kb media (with the sliders sellotaped open because no auto >> opening shutters on my drives!) >> >> Josh Rice

You do need a very strong magnet. I’ve put 3.5 floppies on top of a mag

include a basic feature for rewinding rental DVDs before returning them.

On 5/6/24 15:12, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > Radio Shack used to sell a "Bulk Tape Eraser". I gave mine to the

I've had one of those for years. Resembles a kitchen Mixmaster without the beaters. The problem is that it has a limited working period of about a minute before it gets too hot and the thermal cutout stops the

--Chuck

is it possible to use a 1.44MB disk and just format it as a 720K disk

Yup, that's all I used to do. Some scotch tape over the floppy disk hole to make the system see it as DD. If it didn't automatically format as 720, you could specify size or sector count with format.com in dos.

I did hear folks say it wasn't always reliable (similar to 5.25 disks being formated on a high density drive) but I never saw any problems in my limited use.

On 4/30/2024 5:13 PM, Wayne S wrote: There is also these 2 procedures to try…. From https://literature.hpcalc.org/community/hp9114a-ms-en.pdf TheHP9114Ausesdouble-sideddiscs.Dataiswrittenonboth sides of the disc. Thus the normal formatting procedure is double- sided formatting. Single-sided formatting is allowed for transferring data from older systems. See the next section for single-sided formatting. Before a flexible disc can be used for the first time, it must be formatted. Formatting establishes the directory and volume label as wellasverifyingthatthemediaisnotdamaged.Shownnextare two ways to format discs. Insert a blank disc into the disc drive. From the P.A.M. display, pressing the “File Manager” (f2) softkey gets you to a “Format” softkey. Press the key labeled ““Format” (f5) and answer the next questions. “Enter the disc to format”. The first disc drive is assigned the letter C. Type C: and press return. “Enter a volume label (optional).” The volume label is the name you want to call the disc. This can be up to 11 characters. For example, let’s call this disc “First”. Type First and press Return. The information is displayed on the first two lines below the cursor.PresstheStartFormatkey(f1)ifthesetwolinesarecorrect. “Formatting Disc. Please wait.” appears on the display. Formatting a disc takes about 1 1/2 minutes. The interleave used with this formattingmethodis8,theoptimalforHP Portable/9114A operation. After formatting is complete, pressing the “’Exit Format” (f8) softkey returns you to the main File Manager display. To exit File Manager press the “Exit File Manager” softkey. This ends the format procedure. ThesecondmethodofformattingdiscsistousetheMSDOS Format command. From the initial P.A.M. display, tabbing over to the area called “DOS Commands” and pressing “Return” allows you to use the DOS command called Format. The interleave used inthiscommand is8whichisoptimalforyourHP Portable/9114A system. Type FORMAT C: and press Return. “Press any key to begin formatting C:” is displayed. Press any key on the keyboard. Formatting takes about 1 1/2 minutes. After formatting is complete there is another prompt on the display ““Volume label (11 characters, Enter for none)?. *“Press “Return”if you don’t want a label or enter the name and press “Return” if you want to label the volume. When completed “Format another (Y/N)?” appears on the display. Typing “N” gets you back to entering MS DOS commands. Type “EXIT” to return to P.A.M. Formatting Single-sided TheHPPortable/9114Asystemcanformatdouble-sideddiscsina single-sided format. This is allowed for data compatability with other 3 1/2-inch disc systems. There is a utility called “Format.Com”ontheutilitydiscsuppliedwithyourHP Portable computer.Youmustloadthe“Format.Com”utilityintoyourHP Portable. Use the following sequence. PlacetheUtilitydiscintoyourHP9114A. TabovertotheDOS Command blockandpressStartApplic. From theMS DOS command displaytype: COPY C: FORMAT.COM A: and press Return This loads the utility and allows you to use the extra parameters explainedinthefollowingFORMATcommand. TheMS DOS command thatallowsthiscompatibilitywithits parameters isshown next. Format C:/W -Single-sided /X -Double-sided with 256 byte sectors /Y -Double-sided with 512 byte sectors /Z -Double-sided with 1024 byte Sent from my iPhone >> On Apr 30, 2024, at 14:39, Mike Katz <bitwiz(a)12bitsbest.com> wrote: > > Thank you for your help. > > That is the command I am using on the 41 to try and format the disk. With a directory size of 60. > > On 4/30/2024 4:22 PM, Wayne S via cctalk wrote: >> Also this article refers to a set of commands for this drive. The NEWM command formats a new disk. >> Link is https://www.hpmuseum.org/cgi-sys/cgiwrap/hpmuseum/articles.cgi?read=78 >> >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Apr 30, 2024, at 14:07, Wayne S <wayne.sudol(a)hotmail.com> wrote: >> >> What kind of floppies did Hp recommend to use with this drive? >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Apr 30, 2024, at 13:55, Fred Cisin via cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: >> >> On Tue, 30 Apr 2024, John Herron via cctalk wrote: >> Yup, that's all I used to do. Some scotch tape over the floppy disk hole to >> make the system see it as DD. If it didn't automatically format as 720, you >> could specify size or sector count with format.com in dos. >> >> Somemedia sensors are optical; use opaque taps. >> >> I did hear folks say it wasn't always reliable (similar to 5.25 disks being >> formated on a high density drive) but I never saw any problems in my >> limited use. >> >> 3.5" are 600 VS 750 oersted; >> 5.25" are 300 vs 600 Oersted; >> a low density 5.25 formatted as "high density" won't do well; >> a high density 5.25" (1.2M) formatted as low density ("360K") sill self erase VERY soon, sometimes before you can even get it over to another machine. We had a college purchasing agent in bed with "Roytype", who kept giving us "1.2M" floppies ofr out TRS80s; they self erased very soon. >> >> -- >> Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin(a)xenosoft.com >

If it’s any help, i second the reformat completely a disk in a old pc. I had some issues many years ago where disks formatted on an ibm pc didn’t work correctly on a non- ibm pc. Reformatting and doing the error checking by reading and writing all sections fixed it. A quick format didn’t. There are lotsa 720k diskette’s available for sale… prices vary. Even Amazon has them! Sent from my iPhone > On Apr 30, 2024, at 15:39, Mike Katz <bitwiz(a)12bitsbest.com> wrote: > > Thank you.  I didn't see any new procedures that I have already tried. > > I do not have a problem with the drive or with trying to format a HD > disk with the HP-41 and therefore I was looking for a few DSDD disks > instead of DSHD disks. > >> On 4/30/2024 5:13 PM, Wayne S wrote: >> There is also these 2 procedures to try…. From >> https://literature.hpcalc.org/community/hp9114a-ms-en.pdf >> >> >> >> TheHP9114Ausesdouble-sideddiscs.Dataiswrittenonboth sides of the >> disc. Thus the normal formatting procedure is double- sided >> formatting. Single-sided formatting is allowed for transferring >> data from older systems. See the next section for single-sided >> formatting. >> Before a flexible disc can be used for the first time, it must be >> formatted. Formatting establishes the directory and volume label as >> wellasverifyingthatthemediaisnotdamaged.Shownnextare two ways to >> format discs. Insert a blank disc into the disc drive. >>  From the P.A.M. display, pressing the “File Manager” (f2) softkey >> gets you to a “Format” softkey. Press the key labeled ““Format” >> (f5) and answer the next questions. >> “Enter the disc to format”. The first disc drive is assigned the >> letter C. Type C: and press return. >> “Enter a volume label (optional).” The volume label is the name you >> want to call the disc. This can be up to 11 characters. For >> example, let’s call this disc “First”. Type First and press Return. >> >>   The information is displayed on the first two lines below the >> cursor.PresstheStartFormatkey(f1)ifthesetwolinesarecorrect. >> “Formatting Disc. Please wait.” appears on the display. Formatting >> a disc takes about 1 1/2 minutes. The interleave used with this >> formattingmethodis8,theoptimalforHP Portable/9114A operation. >> After formatting is complete, pressing the “’Exit Format” (f8) >> softkey returns you to the main File Manager display. To exit File >> Manager press the “Exit File Manager” softkey. This ends the format >> procedure. >> ThesecondmethodofformattingdiscsistousetheMSDOS Format command. >> From the initial P.A.M. display, tabbing over to the area called >> “DOS Commands” and pressing “Return” allows you to use the DOS >> command called Format. The interleave used inthiscommand >> is8whichisoptimalforyourHP Portable/9114A system. >> Type FORMAT C: and press Return. >> “Press any key to begin formatting C:” is displayed. Press any key >> on the keyboard. Formatting takes about 1 1/2 minutes. >> After formatting is complete there is another prompt on the display >> ““Volume label (11 characters, Enter for none)?. *“Press “Return”if >> you don’t want a label or enter the name and press “Return” if you >> want to label the volume. >> When completed “Format another (Y/N)?” appears on the display. >> Typing “N” gets you back to entering MS DOS commands. Type “EXIT” >> to return to P.A.M. >> Formatting Single-sided >> TheHPPortable/9114Asystemcanformatdouble-sideddiscsina single-sided >> format. This is allowed for data compatability with other 3 >> 1/2-inch disc systems. There is a utility called >> “Format.Com”ontheutilitydiscsuppliedwithyourHP Portable >> computer.Youmustloadthe“Format.Com”utilityintoyourHP Portable. Use >> the following sequence. >> PlacetheUtilitydiscintoyourHP9114A. TabovertotheDOS Command >> blockandpressStartApplic. >> >>   From theMS DOS command displaytype: COPY C: FORMAT.COM A: and >> press Return >> This loads the utility and allows you to use the extra parameters >> explainedinthefollowingFORMATcommand. >> TheMS DOS command thatallowsthiscompatibilitywithits parameters >> isshown next. >> Format C:/W -Single-sided >> /X -Double-sided with 256 byte sectors >> /Y -Double-sided with 512 byte sectors /Z -Double-sided with 1024 byte >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>>> On Apr 30, 2024, at 14:39, Mike Katz <bitwiz(a)12bitsbest.com> wrote: >>> Thank you for your help. >>> >>> That is the command I am using on the 41 to try and format the >>> disk.  With a directory size of 60. >>> >>> On 4/30/2024 4:22 PM, Wayne S via cctalk wrote: >>>> Also this article refers to a set of commands for this drive. The >>>> NEWM command formats a new disk. >>>> Link is >>>> https://www.hpmuseum.org/cgi-sys/cgiwrap/hpmuseum/articles.cgi?read=78 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On Apr 30, 2024, at 14:07, Wayne S <wayne.sudol(a)hotmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> What kind of floppies did Hp recommend to use with this drive? >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On Apr 30, 2024, at 13:55, Fred Cisin via cctalk >>>> <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: >>>> >>>> On Tue, 30 Apr 2024, John Herron via cctalk wrote: >>>> Yup, that's all I used to do. Some scotch tape over the floppy >>>> disk hole to >>>> make the system see it as DD. If it didn't automatically format >>>> as 720, you >>>> could specify size or sector count with format.com in dos. >>>> >>>> Somemedia sensors are optical; use opaque taps. >>>> >>>> I did hear folks say it wasn't always reliable (similar to 5.25 >>>> disks being >>>> formated on a high density drive) but I never saw any problems in my >>>> limited use. >>>> >>>> 3.5" are 600 VS 750 oersted; >>>> 5.25" are 300 vs 600 Oersted; >>>> a low density 5.25 formatted as "high density" won't do well; >>>> a high density 5.25" (1.2M) formatted as low density ("360K") >>>> sill self erase VERY soon, sometimes before you can even get it >>>> over to another machine.  We had a college purchasing agent in >>>> bed with "Roytype", who kept giving us "1.2M" floppies ofr out >>>> TRS80s; they self erased very soon. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Grumpy Ol' Fred             cisin(a)xenosoft.com

Also this article refers to a set of commands for this drive.

Link is

Sent from my iPhone On Apr 30, 2024, at 14:07, Wayne S <wayne.sudol(a)hotmail.com> wrote: What kind of floppies did Hp recommend to use with this drive? Sent from my iPhone On Apr 30, 2024, at 13:55, Fred Cisin via cctalk

On Tue, 30 Apr 2024, John Herron via cctalk wrote: Yup, that's all I used to do. Some scotch tape over the floppy

make the system see it as DD. If it didn't automatically format

could specify size or sector count with format.com

Somemedia sensors are optical; use opaque taps. I did hear folks say it wasn't always reliable (similar to 5.25

formated on a high density drive) but I never saw any problems in my limited use. 3.5" are 600 VS 750 oersted; 5.25" are 300 vs 600 Oersted; a low density 5.25 formatted as "high density" won't do well; a high density 5.25" (1.2M) formatted as low density ("360K")

-- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin(a)xenosoft.com

I am not familiar with a 9114 only the 9114A and 9114B. On 4/30/2024 6:15 PM, Mike Stein wrote: > Just wondering: I see 9114 and 9114A being used interchangeably (mine > are 9114s); are they the same or actually different drives? > > m > > > On Tue, Apr 30, 2024 at 5:39 PM Mike Katz via cctalk > &lt;cctalk(a)classiccmp.org&gt; wrote: > > Thank you for your help. > > That is the command I am using on the 41 to try and format the disk. > With a directory size of 60. > > On 4/30/2024 4:22 PM, Wayne S via cctalk wrote: > > Also this article refers to a set of commands for this drive. > The NEWM command formats a new disk. > > Link is > https://www.hpmuseum.org/cgi-sys/cgiwrap/hpmuseum/articles.cgi?read=78 > > > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > On Apr 30, 2024, at 14:07, Wayne S &lt;wayne.sudol(a)hotmail.com&gt; > wrote: > > > > What kind of floppies did Hp recommend to use with this drive? > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > On Apr 30, 2024, at 13:55, Fred Cisin via cctalk > &lt;cctalk(a)classiccmp.org&gt; wrote: > > > > On Tue, 30 Apr 2024, John Herron via cctalk wrote: > > Yup, that's all I used to do. Some scotch tape over the floppy > disk hole to > > make the system see it as DD. If it didn't automatically format > as 720, you > > could specify size or sector count with format.com > <http://format.com> in dos. > > > > Somemedia sensors are optical; use opaque taps. > > > > I did hear folks say it wasn't always reliable (similar to 5.25 > disks being > > formated on a high density drive) but I never saw any problems > in my > > limited use. > > > > 3.5" are 600 VS 750 oersted; > > 5.25" are 300 vs 600 Oersted; > > a low density 5.25 formatted as "high density" won't do well; > > a high density 5.25" (1.2M) formatted as low density ("360K") > sill self erase VERY soon, sometimes before you can even get it > over to another machine. We had a college purchasing agent in bed > with "Roytype", who kept giving us "1.2M" floppies ofr out TRS80s; > they self erased very soon. > > > > -- > > Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin(a)xenosoft.com >

Having grown up with 1.44MB 3.5" floppies, I have a question: is it possible to use a 1.44MB disk and just format it as a 720K disk? =] -- Anders Nelson www.andersknelson.com

On Tue, Apr 30, 2024 at 1:00 PM Mike Katz via cctalk &lt;cctalk(a)classiccmp.org&gt; wrote: > Does anybody have any extra 720K (double sided, double density) 3.5" > Floppy Disks that could use a good home? > > If so, please email me directly at bitwiz(a)12bitsbest.com. > > Thank you, > >                Mike >

On Fri, 26 Apr 2024, Sellam Abraham via cctalk wrote: Is this half a century from when they said, "Hey, you know what would be neat to build?" or from when they started designing? or got a preliminary design done? built a prototype? announced it? started taking orders? started filling orders? Fred