15 Jul
2024
15 Jul
'24
6:57 p.m.
Sellam,
Stay the FUCK off my private email. That crosses the line and you
know it.
-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: Re: [cctalk] Civility; Was Re: Re: LCM auction pre-notice
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2024 11:46:54 -0700
From: Sellam Abraham <sellam.ismail(a)gmail.com>
To: Doc Shipley <doc(a)vaxen.net>
On Mon, Jul 15, 2024 at 10:19 AM Doc Shipley via cctalk
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org <mailto:cctalk@classiccmp.org>> wrote:
On 7/15/24 12:12, Sellam Abraham via cctalk wrote:
The only thing criminal here is Paul Allen's
handling of LCM.
With all due respect, man, your noise:signal ratio is getting really
awful. Do you ever look at what you've typed and ask yourself if it's
*useful*?
The last I looked this mailing list was meant to be an exchange of
information and a source of support, not a Reddit clone.
Useful or not, it needs to be stated.
I stand by the comment.
Thanks for your feedback.
Sellam
15 Jul
15 Jul
7:08 p.m.
Folks,
Once again, it seems I need to ask everyone to drop this discussion. I
_still_ don't want to have the moderation flags and banhammers.
De
16 Jul
16 Jul
12:38 a.m.
Dennis Boone wrote:
Folks,
Once again, it seems I need to ask everyone to drop
this discussion. I _still_ don't >
want to have the moderation flags and banhammers.
Seconded.
Though, I'll get in my last words about it before the thread hopefully dies off.
The situation with LCM+L is what it is. Unless someone has the wherewithal to challenge
the whole mess within the legal system (and probably lose anyway), there's nothing
that anyone can do about it. I, as is clear many others who inhabit this list, have a
great deal of frustration built up about the demise of LCM+L. With me, it's most
specifically felt in the way that the whole thing was executed. At some point, though, I
just have to let it go, which is right now. I agree with Dennis that the time has come
for this discussion to expire.
LCM+L R.I.P. You will be missed. Thanks to all (which includes some members of this
list) who contributed to the amazing place that LCM+L was. Mr. Allen's heart was in
the right place, or he wouldn't have devoted his resources to creating it in the first
place. Unfortunately, his life didn't last long enough for him to assure that after
he was gone it would have some means by which it could continue on in his memory.
Rick Bensene
The Old Calculator Museum
https://oldcalculatormuseum.com
Beavercreek, Oregon USA
12:59 a.m.
Drop the civility discussion or the LCM+L discussion?
The LCM+L discussion raises important questions about finding good homes for one’s vintage
computer collection after one passes on.
I got more passionate about making sure this kind of stuff got saved when in the late 90s
I found that little of what I worked on at Burroughs in the late 80s was available most
anywhere. I didn’t donate the item that I donated to LCM+L just to see it get scrapped. I
know of at least one other person who donated rare items there on the condition they would
be preserved.
alan
On Jul 15, 2024, at 17:38, Rick Bensene via cctalk
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
Dennis Boone wrote:
Folks,
Once again, it seems I need to ask everyone to
drop this discussion. I _still_ don't >
want to have the moderation flags and banhammers.
Seconded.
Though, I'll get in my last words about it before the thread hopefully dies off.
The situation with LCM+L is what it is. Unless someone has the wherewithal to challenge
the whole mess within the legal system (and probably lose anyway), there's nothing
that anyone can do about it. I, as is clear many others who inhabit this list, have a
great deal of frustration built up about the demise of LCM+L. With me, it's most
specifically felt in the way that the whole thing was executed. At some point, though, I
just have to let it go, which is right now. I agree with Dennis that the time has come
for this discussion to expire.
LCM+L R.I.P. You will be missed. Thanks to all (which includes some members of this
list) who contributed to the amazing place that LCM+L was. Mr. Allen's heart was in
the right place, or he wouldn't have devoted his resources to creating it in the first
place. Unfortunately, his life didn't last long enough for him to assure that after
he was gone it would have some means by which it could continue on in his memory.
Rick Bensene
The Old Calculator Museum
https://oldcalculatormuseum.com
Beavercreek, Oregon USA
5:49 p.m.
I think the key to preservation is assuring next of kin that the items
in our possession have value, and are worth seeking out future
custodians. There's a lot of stuff in private collections that can bring
in great sums of money if only those in charge of selling the estate
appreciate what they have to deal with. Making sure spouses and children
know that at least some items in the collection are not just "old junk"
will help immeasurably in their preservation, as well as pointing them
in the direction of those knowledgeable enough to value it. Groups like
this, as well as local/national computer museums will, i'm sure, help a
lot with valuing pieces of equipment if and when the time comes to
auction them off.
Of course, a great tool is a personal inventory. A book, or some such
document with rough values and other information could be very useful
for those unfortunate enough to have to rehome our collections once
we're passed. Contact details of those who can help in assessing and
distributing such stuff will also be quite useful.
I, personally, am quite young compared to many here (no offense
intended!), being 32 years old. However i have reassured my spouse that
much of my "junk" (largely consisting of QBUS PDP-11's at this time) is
actually quite valuable and well worth getting a good price for. Other,
rarer items, i have assured her need to be rehomed to a museum. Of
course, i intend to hang onto these pieces for at least another 32
years, as a good portion is somewhat "retirement projects", as well as
"retirement funds", and i definitely intend to divest some of my
ever-growing collection when the time comes.
But then again, we all have those pieces that are actually quite
valueless. It is definitely worth divesting those pieces if and when we
get round to it. If and when the time is available to divest these
pieces (i'm eyeing up the stack of 30+ Core i7 3770 boards in the corner
as i type this, definitely not retro at this time, but definitely need
to be divested) it is worth getting the money back when we can.
It's a difficult one for those that love and cherish these machines, but
it always hurts to see them end up in the trash. Ultimately, as
custodians of this equipment, it is also our duty to assure their
preservation, and sometimes it is us who know best where to rehome them.
Don't hesitate to downsize and find younger folk that have the passion.
There isn't a lot of them, but they are out there.
Cheers
Josh rice
On 16/07/2024 01:59, Alan Perry via cctalk wrote:
Drop the civility discussion or the LCM+L discussion?
The LCM+L discussion raises important questions about finding good homes for one’s
vintage computer collection after one passes on.
I got more passionate about making sure this kind of stuff got saved when in the late 90s
I found that little of what I worked on at Burroughs in the late 80s was available most
anywhere. I didn’t donate the item that I donated to LCM+L just to see it get scrapped. I
know of at least one other person who donated rare items there on the condition they would
be preserved.
alan
> On Jul 15, 2024, at 17:38, Rick Bensene via cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
wrote:
>
>
> Dennis Boone wrote:
>
>> Folks,
>> Once again, it seems I need to ask everyone to drop this discussion. I _still_
don't >
>> want to have the moderation flags and banhammers.
> Seconded.
>
> Though, I'll get in my last words about it before the thread hopefully dies off.
>
> The situation with LCM+L is what it is. Unless someone has the wherewithal to
challenge the whole mess within the legal system (and probably lose anyway), there's
nothing that anyone can do about it. I, as is clear many others who inhabit this list,
have a great deal of frustration built up about the demise of LCM+L. With me, it's
most specifically felt in the way that the whole thing was executed. At some point,
though, I just have to let it go, which is right now. I agree with Dennis that the time
has come for this discussion to expire.
>
> LCM+L R.I.P. You will be missed. Thanks to all (which includes some members of
this list) who contributed to the amazing place that LCM+L was. Mr. Allen's heart was
in the right place, or he wouldn't have devoted his resources to creating it in the
first place. Unfortunately, his life didn't last long enough for him to assure that
after he was gone it would have some means by which it could continue on in his memory.
>
> Rick Bensene
> The Old Calculator Museum
> https://oldcalculatormuseum.com
> Beavercreek, Oregon USA
>
>
>
6:58 p.m.
On 16/07/2024 18:49, Joshua Rice via cctalk wrote:
I think the key to preservation is assuring next of
kin that the items
in our possession have value, and are worth seeking out future
custodians. There's a lot of stuff in private collections that can
bring in great sums of money if only those in charge of selling the
estate appreciate what they have to deal with. Making sure spouses and
children know that at least some items in the collection are not just
"old junk" will help immeasurably in their preservation, as well as
pointing them in the direction of those knowledgeable enough to value
it. Groups like this, as well as local/national computer museums will,
i'm sure, help a lot with valuing pieces of equipment if and when the
time comes to auction them off.
I think you are living in some alternate universe. I remember when
clearing out a significant (for the uk) collection which consisted of
IBM 7090 tapes, cards and CE manuals, and a straight 8 PDP8, talking to
the children of the widow, about their mums collection of china, some of
it valuable which covered every inch of wall space within the house and
which severely hampered our moving of the computers, radios and scopes
and other electronic items through the house. What were their plans for
that I asked? Toffee Hammers they replied, the intended to smash the lot
in a sort of revenge for having to live with it. Money did not matter!
They just wanted rid....
... I am 100% certain my wife and kids feel the same, except perhaps for
my ATARI ST on which we played "Buggy Boy", "XENON II" and Tynesoft
"Winter Olympics" as a family.
... as for "national museums" all the ones I know of are totally
over-whelmed with donations. Space is expensive. They cherry pick the
best because thats all they can afford to store. Certainly in the UK
they exist because the offer STEM courses for which they get rewards,
Since the UK left the EU their funding sources are further reduced as EU
funding has gone, and not been replaced, as promised by the pro-brexit
lobby. they won´t accept most of what we have, and any they do take must
be donated without condition.
... so as I am now 70 years old my collection of junk is being dispersed
as fast as I can to younger enthusiasts, who I hope are not out to make
a fast buck on a quick cheap buy and re-sell on e-bay. If you want to
have any confidence it goes to a good home you need to do it yourself....
.. Which brings us back to Paul Allen who sadly did not have the time to
do this for LCM+L. I hope he passed peacefully.....
Dave
G4UGM
Of course, a great tool is a personal inventory. A
book, or some such
document with rough values and other information could be very useful
for those unfortunate enough to have to rehome our collections once
we're passed. Contact details of those who can help in assessing and
distributing such stuff will also be quite useful.
I, personally, am quite young compared to many here (no offense
intended!), being 32 years old. However i have reassured my spouse
that much of my "junk" (largely consisting of QBUS PDP-11's at this
time) is actually quite valuable and well worth getting a good price
for. Other, rarer items, i have assured her need to be rehomed to a
museum. Of course, i intend to hang onto these pieces for at least
another 32 years, as a good portion is somewhat "retirement projects",
as well as "retirement funds", and i definitely intend to divest some
of my ever-growing collection when the time comes.
But then again, we all have those pieces that are actually quite
valueless. It is definitely worth divesting those pieces if and when
we get round to it. If and when the time is available to divest these
pieces (i'm eyeing up the stack of 30+ Core i7 3770 boards in the
corner as i type this, definitely not retro at this time, but
definitely need to be divested) it is worth getting the money back
when we can.
It's a difficult one for those that love and cherish these machines,
but it always hurts to see them end up in the trash. Ultimately, as
custodians of this equipment, it is also our duty to assure their
preservation, and sometimes it is us who know best where to rehome
them. Don't hesitate to downsize and find younger folk that have the
passion. There isn't a lot of them, but they are out there.
Cheers
Josh rice
On 16/07/2024 01:59, Alan Perry via cctalk wrote:
> Drop the civility discussion or the LCM+L discussion?
>
> The LCM+L discussion raises important questions about finding good
> homes for one’s vintage computer collection after one passes on.
>
> I got more passionate about making sure this kind of stuff got saved
> when in the late 90s I found that little of what I worked on at
> Burroughs in the late 80s was available most anywhere. I didn’t
> donate the item that I donated to LCM+L just to see it get scrapped.
> I know of at least one other person who donated rare items there on
> the condition they would be preserved.
>
> alan
>
>> On Jul 15, 2024, at 17:38, Rick Bensene via cctalk
>> <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Dennis Boone wrote:
>>
>>> Folks,
>>> Once again, it seems I need to ask everyone to drop this
>>> discussion. I _still_ don't >
>>> want to have the moderation flags and banhammers.
>> Seconded.
>>
>> Though, I'll get in my last words about it before the thread
>> hopefully dies off.
>>
>> The situation with LCM+L is what it is. Unless someone has the
>> wherewithal to challenge the whole mess within the legal system (and
>> probably lose anyway), there's nothing that anyone can do about
>> it. I, as is clear many others who inhabit this list, have a
>> great deal of frustration built up about the demise of LCM+L. With
>> me, it's most specifically felt in the way that the whole thing was
>> executed. At some point, though, I just have to let it go, which is
>> right now. I agree with Dennis that the time has come for this
>> discussion to expire.
>>
>> LCM+L R.I.P. You will be missed. Thanks to all (which includes
>> some members of this list) who contributed to the amazing place that
>> LCM+L was. Mr. Allen's heart was in the right place, or he wouldn't
>> have devoted his resources to creating it in the first place.
>> Unfortunately, his life didn't last long enough for him to assure
>> that after he was gone it would have some means by which it could
>> continue on in his memory.
>>
>> Rick Bensene
>> The Old Calculator Museum
>> https://oldcalculatormuseum.com
>> Beavercreek, Oregon USA
>>
>>
>>
7:10 p.m.
On Tue, 16 Jul 2024, Joshua Rice via cctalk wrote:
I think the key to preservation is assuring next of
kin that the items in our
possession have value, and are worth seeking out future custodians.
Collectors always assert that their collection has value, and the next of
kin never believe a word of that.
My own sister actually claims that her very old French Horns are valuable!
Another relative tries to claim that "Blue willow" dishes have some value.
Although, perhaps you could search out the highest prices ever bid on
eBay, and tape clippings of those to each item.
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin(a)xenosoft.com
7:35 p.m.
Didn't we already kill this horse a few weeks ago? We had a very long
thread and branches about the subject and related topics.
But, specific to Paul Allen, it obviously was not a priority of his to plan
for the LCM after his passing, compared to other things that he did plan.
We also talked about sticking it to the survivors. I think we concluded
it's best to sell or give away the collection before you're too old to do
so.
Bill
On Tue, Jul 16, 2024, 3:18 PM Fred Cisin via cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
wrote:
On Tue, 16 Jul 2024, Joshua Rice via cctalk wrote:
I think the key to preservation is assuring next
of kin that the items
in our
possession have value, and are worth seeking out
future custodians.
Collectors always assert that their collection has value, and the next of
kin never believe a word of that.
My own sister actually claims that her very old French Horns are valuable!
Another relative tries to claim that "Blue willow" dishes have some value.
Although, perhaps you could search out the highest prices ever bid on
eBay, and tape clippings of those to each item.
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin(a)xenosoft.com
7:59 p.m.
New subject: Fwd: Civility; Was Re: Re: LCM auction pre-notice
At 02:10 PM 7/16/2024, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:
Collectors always assert that their collection has
value, and the next of kin never believe a word of that.
It's not just the claimed value, which could be correct at a given
moment in time. It's the cost involved in physically storing the
stuff, the time and skill it would take to assess and describe it
all for sale, and then conducting the sale and shipment. It's
a lot of work.
At 02:35 PM 7/16/2024, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote:
We also talked about sticking it to the survivors. I
think we concluded
it's best to sell or give away the collection before you're too old to do so.
Far easier to acquire something - just one more! - than to dispose of one.
- John
8:08 p.m.
New subject: Fwd: Civility; Was Re: Re: LCM auction pre-notice
On Tue, 2024-07-16 at 14:59 -0500, John Foust via cctalk wrote:
Far easier to acquire something - just one more! -
than to dispose of
one.
The two happiest days in a boat owners life: The day he buys it, and
the day he sells it.
Boat (n): A hole in the water that you throw money into.
8:40 p.m.
New subject: Fwd: Civility; Was Re: Re: LCM auction pre-notice
Or do what the Ham Radio guys do and have a commercial auction house that specializes in
collectable computers. KF5CNC 73Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
-------- Original message --------From: John Foust via cctalk
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> Date: 7/16/24 3:00 PM (GMT-06:00) To:
cctalk(a)classiccmp.org Cc: John Foust <jfoust(a)threedee.com> Subject: [cctalk] Re:
Fwd: Civility; Was Re: Re: LCM auction pre-notice At 02:10 PM 7/16/2024, Fred Cisin via
cctalk wrote:>Collectors always assert that their collection has value, and the next of
kin never believe a word of that.It's not just the claimed value, which could be
correct at a given moment in time. It's the cost involved in physically storing
thestuff, the time and skill it would take to assess and describe itall for sale, and then
conducting the sale and shipment. It's a lot of work.At 02:35 PM 7/16/2024, Bill
Degnan via cctalk wrote:>We also talked about sticking it to the survivors. I think we
concluded>it's best to sell or give away the collection before you're too old
to do so.Far easier to acquire something - just one more! - than to dispose of one.- John
8:46 p.m.
New subject: Fwd: Civility; Was Re: Re: LCM auction pre-notice
On Tue, 16 Jul 2024, brianb1224 via cctalk wrote:
Or do what the Ham Radio guys do and have a commercial
auction house
that specializes in collectable computers.
Which commercial auction houses specialize in collectible computers?
(The format of your post comes through much like that of the late Ed
Sharpe)
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin(a)xenosoft.com
17 Jul
17 Jul
5:39 p.m.
R&R Auction. They have been doing mostly Apple and some other.
https://www.rrauction.com
On Tue, Jul 16, 2024 at 4:46 PM Fred Cisin via cctalk
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
Which commercial auction houses specialize in collectible computers?
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin(a)xenosoft.com
5:08 p.m.
New subject: Fwd: Civility; Was Re: Re: LCM auction pre-notice
Storage is one reason I have a Palm Pilot collection ;) I have a dozen different models
from many vendors (including one used on Better Call Saul) as well as accessories and all
of it fits in a bankers box.
I hear storage is a problem for CHM.
alan
On Jul 16, 2024, at 13:00, John Foust via cctalk
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
At 02:10 PM 7/16/2024, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:
Collectors always assert that their collection
has value, and the next of kin never believe a word of that.
It's not just the claimed value, which could be correct at a given
moment in time. It's the cost involved in physically storing the
stuff, the time and skill it would take to assess and describe it
all for sale, and then conducting the sale and shipment. It's
a lot of work.
At 02:35 PM 7/16/2024, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote:
We also talked about sticking it to the
survivors. I think we concluded
it's best to sell or give away the collection before you're too old to do so.
Far easier to acquire something - just one more! - than to dispose of one.
- John
5:03 p.m.
On Jul 16, 2024, at 12:10, Fred Cisin via cctalk
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
On Tue, 16 Jul 2024, Joshua Rice via cctalk wrote:
I think most of this stuff is valuable. To the right person. The trick is finding that
person,
My wife worked at the part of Sun that made many of the machines in my collection when
they were being made, so she is fine with my computer collection.
alan
I think the key to preservation is assuring next
of kin that the items in our possession have value, and are worth seeking out future
custodians.
Collectors always assert that their collection has value, and the next of kin never
believe a word of that.
My own sister actually claims that her very old French Horns are valuable!
Another relative tries to claim that "Blue willow" dishes have some value.
Although, perhaps you could search out the highest prices ever bid on eBay, and tape
clippings of those to each item. 
7:15 p.m.
The number of UK museums seem to be growing. Perhaps some of the newer ones
are not yet full. I think the large Science Museums are pretty well off but
the smaller ones may be more flexible. Of course, they are also in greater
danger of fading away.
I'm sure you're aware of TNMoC at Bletchley Park (though not the same
organisation as the Bletchley Park Trust) . I'm hoping to get involved
there myself soon. They seem to be mainly limited by the rate at which they
can restore the many old buildings on the site. There are still a lot left
semi-derelict. Although both organisations have improved their standing a
lot recently, I'm still astonished when I compare it with the museum
Curious Marc and his team recently visited.
Two other notable but more recently established museums are Cambridge's
'Centre for computing History' which has a variety of HP and DEC systems in
addition to many homegrown Cambridge machines, and Sam Battle's 'This
museum is not obsolete', a volunteer-run museum with a very dedicated staff
and an astounding ability to take on work and exhibits. I'd recommend both
for a visit and perhaps a donation.
On Wed, Jul 17, 2024 at 6:53 PM Fred Cisin via cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
wrote:
On Wed, 17 Jul 2024, Alan Perry wrote:
My wife worked at the part of Sun that made many
of the machines in my
collection when they were being made, so she is fine with my computer
collection.
Does she have a sister?
18 Jul
18 Jul
9:08 a.m.
On 17/07/2024 20:15, Adrian Godwin via cctalk wrote:
The number of UK museums seem to be growing. Perhaps
some of the newer ones
are not yet full. I think the large Science Museums are pretty well off but
the smaller ones may be more flexible. Of course, they are also in greater
danger of fading away.
The Science Museum Group has space but I believe it struggles money.
It has made staff redundant recently and closed the Air and Space hall
in Manchester last year and scaled updates to the spaces there.
I'm sure you're aware of TNMoC at Bletchley
Park (though not the same
organisation as the Bletchley Park Trust) .
I am a member of the "TNMOC Supporters club" .
I'm hoping to get involved
there myself soon. They seem to be mainly limited by the rate at which they
can restore the many old buildings on the site. There are still a lot left
semi-derelict.
Very few now, and all the TNMOC buildings are leased from the Bletchley
Park Trust so as interest in the park grows the Trust may be inclined to
let them to commercial concerns.
They will accept some donations.
Although both organisations have improved their
standing a
lot recently, I'm still astonished when I compare it with the museum
Curious Marc and his team recently visited.
I think we expect Museums in the UK to be free. They have to be free to
get government money. I think TNMOC charges £10. Its not really enough,
but I am sure folks would gripe at more. I recently visited the OXO
Museum in Malaga which is 15€ for two hours. Its much smaller than TNMOC
yet because of its location I am sure it takes a lot more money. OXO is
well worth a visit even if you are not a gamer...
https://oxomuseo.com/
Two other notable but more recently established
museums are Cambridge's
'Centre for computing History' which has a variety of HP and DEC systems in
addition to many homegrown Cambridge machines,
A great place, but I think they would only accept things of real
importance. They have recently sold off surplus items..
and Sam Battle's 'This
museum is not obsolete', a volunteer-run museum with a very dedicated staff
and an astounding ability to take on work and exhibits. I'd recommend both
for a visit and perhaps a donation.
Not managed to get there yet but on my "Must See" list
There is also the "Retro Computer Museum" in Leicester
https://retrocomputermuseum.co.uk/
This is a great place to visit, and has an extensive Library. Andy who
runs it has taken a few items from me, but also turned down a few....
.. and the Northwest Computer Museum..
https://www.nwcomputermuseum.org.uk/
which is pretty new, but again a great place for post-mainframe exhibits....
... not sure where Joe is with donations...
Dave
G4UGM
On Wed, Jul 17, 2024 at 6:53 PM Fred Cisin via cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
wrote:
> On Wed, 17 Jul 2024, Alan Perry wrote:
>> My wife worked at the part of Sun that made many of the machines in my
>> collection when they were being made, so she is fine with my computer
>> collection.
> Does she have a sister?
>
>
>
16 Jul
16 Jul
12:59 a.m.
New subject: Civility; Was Re: Re: LCM auction pre-notice
On Jul 15, 2024, at 8:38 PM, Rick Bensene via cctalk
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
Dennis Boone wrote:
A problem with the whole discussion is that there are two rather different questions: the
fate of Paul Allen's collection (things he owned, so that the estate now owns) vs. the
fate of LCM (a non-profit organization which also owns things, and those are not part of
Paul Allen's estate).
Some things we tend to think of as belonging to the museum in fact appear to be Paul
Allen's property, like a PDP-10. I don't know if the Purdue 6500 is in that
category; probably yes since Christie attempted to mention it. On the other hand, various
things donated to LCM presumably are not being auctioned since they are not property of
the Paul Allen estate, though it's certainly a good question what will happen to them
given that the museum is permanently closed.
For the more interesting Paul Allen items, I wonder if there are people here who would try
to bid on them, either as individuals or as members of a team of rescuers. I'm
seriously tempted to try that for the 6500, even though the notion of winning and having
to pay for transportation is a big scary.
paul
Folks,
Once again, it seems I need to ask everyone to
drop this discussion. I _still_ don't >
want to have the moderation flags and banhammers.
Seconded.
Though, I'll get in my last words about it before the thread hopefully dies off.
The situation with LCM+L is what it is. Unless someone has the wherewithal to challenge
the whole mess within the legal system (and probably lose anyway), there's nothing
that anyone can do about it. I, as is clear many others who inhabit this list, have a
great deal of frustration built up about the demise of LCM+L. With me, it's most
specifically felt in the way that the whole thing was executed. At some point, though, I
just have to let it go, which is right now. I agree with Dennis that the time has come
for this discussion to expire. 
15 Jul
15 Jul
7:17 p.m.
On Mon, Jul 15, 2024 at 11:57 AM Doc Shipley via cctalk <
cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
Sellam,
Stay the FUCK off my private email. That crosses the line and you
know it.
lol I tried to keep this off-list but you dragged it back out into the
open, like an absolute twat.
Keep my name out of your stupid messages and I won't have to reply to you
at all.
Sellam
129
days inactive
132
days old
19 comments
15 participants
participants (15)
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Adrian Godwin -
Alan Perry -
Bill Degnan -
brianb1224 -
Christian Liendo -
David Wade -
Dennis Boone -
Doc Shipley -
Fred Cisin -
John Foust -
Joshua Rice -
Paul Koning -
Rick Bensene -
Sellam Abraham -
Van Snyder