Hey, you can get a KI10 for <2k right now at Christie's.... (No, I will not bid. I will not bid because my life would be over if I won) On 9/10/2024 1:00 PM, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote:

Nope. But the Enigma is a four-rotor Navy model, not the more common 3-rotor one. I didn't know that the Navy had those; I had heard of 4-rotor machines only as something the Gestapo used. Seems that way. For that matter, so does $250k for the Xerox Alto, and a round million for the Cray 1. Not to mention $32k for the Cyber console display (I would have liked that one, but not at that price!). And perhaps craziest of all, $189k for a 360/91 console display. Just the lights panel, nothing more. paul

On 9/10/24 17:37, Maciej W. Rozycki via cctalk wrote: The army version only had 3 rotors because the Germans figured army messages would be useful only for a short time (move to next bridge over river) and useless after an hour or so.  the Germans knew that the Enigma was a weak system, so they figured they needed better for the navy (meet sub tender at 9AM at coordinates XY) as the messages could be of use by the time they were broken. The Germans apparently had no idea that the allies put together a MASSIVE mechanized code breaking effort.  Bletchley Park had 6 bombes of the Turing design, but the US had 360 machines made by NCR under insane secrecy.  If you saw the movie "The Imitation Game" the model they showed was pretty accurate.  It tried about 24 combinations per second, and took quite a while to find the starting position for the navy code.  The NCR machines ran so fast that when they got a match they had to brake to a stop and back up to record the match.  The British bombe rang a bell and stopped when it got a selected level of a partial match, the NCR machine recorded the match on adding machine tape and then continued trying the rest of the possible combinations.  it tried 1440 combinations/second, and could break the navy code in under 20 minutes, the army code in six minutes. The code was changed every midnight, so for the first message of the day the code breakers had to guess which rotors were to be used that day.  There were 7 rotors, you picked either 3 or 4 for army or navy respectively.  In the US, they set up 26 machines (I think) with all possible combinations of rotors and then found the starting position of the only one that came out right.  Then, once they knew which rotors to use, they re-set all 360 machines to that arrangement and cracked the starting position of 360 messages in parallel.  The messages were sent by underwater cable to the US for cracking from various intercept sites. For higher level message traffic, the Germans had the Lorenz SZ42 (Schlussel Zusatz, literally key attachment, but meaning cypher attachment) which was a VERY strong (for the time) modern encryption device.  But, it too, had a weakness.  The Bletchely Park guys had intercepts of this system that they codenamed "Tunny" and the sender and recipient were indicated in clear text, so they knew this was important stuff.  The machine had rotors that had different numbers of steps, related by prime numbers, so that the cryptoperiod was quite long.  One rotor of each group could either XOR one serial data bit of the Teletype character, or not alter it.  There were two groups of 5 rotors.  Each rotor had "bumps" that could be flipped up or down.  One group of rotors advanced one step for each character, the other group advanced intermittently, determined by two other rotors.  Bletchely Park NEVER saw one of these machines, but by MASSIVE statistical analysis, they managed to figure out completely how it worked, which blows me away!  They built an electronic code cracking machine that ran two paper tapes that differed in length by one character, and as the tapes ran through the reader repeatedly, this managed to compare every character of the ciphertext against every character of the crib tape, and the machine accumulated some statistical information from that.  This machine was called "Colossus". One of the huge cracks they got was a long message from Gen. Erwin Rommel detailing what he thought were the strengths and weaknesses of the allied positions.  We used that to take advantage of what we thought the Germans would do to exploit that. Another big crack was an Irish navy officer had been killed, and with his family's permission, papers with disinformation on the D-day attack were put in his pockets.  Tunny intercepts later showed the Germans were moving positions based on this disinformation, and it helped the invasion go better for the allies. Jon

The original movie was called 'The Man Who Never Was' https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0049471/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1 So they made another new version? On 2024-09-10 19:56, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: -- Nigel Johnson, MSc., MIEEE, MCSE VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept! Skype: TILBURY2591

Here's a fun telling of the story ==> https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Iipsxj3hRpE Sellam On Tue, Sep 10, 2024, 5:31 PM Wayne S via cctalk &lt;cctalk(a)classiccmp.org&gt; wrote:

Hmm, I have a DEC PDP11 BA23 box that was once owned by the guy that forced Lech Walesa into a second runoff election for President of Poland in 1990. Maybe I should get Christie's to sell it for me and just use SimH :-) cheers, Nigel On 2024-09-10 18:41, Sellam Abraham via cctalk wrote: -- Nigel Johnson, MSc., MIEEE, MCSE VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept! Skype: TILBURY2591

That would be what you'd expect if there was a "reserve" and the bids did not reach that number. But what DEC stuff are you talking about? There is a bunch in the on-line auction, but that isn't finished yet, it runs through 9/12. paul

On Tue, 10 Sept 2024 at 19:43, Henry Bent &lt;henry.r.bent(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: Okay, I figured it out, there are two different auctions. The one I linked above is done, but there is another: https://onlineonly.christies.com/s/firsts-history-computing-paul-g-allen-co… that is in progress, and that's the link that I was looking at. I apologize for my confusion, I suppose I'm just having a bit of brain fog. -Henry

The terms of sale indicate that Christie's employees are allowed to participate for themselves and if so are identified as such, but they get no special consideration if they do. paul

Interesting. I wonder how they handled the stekler boards Sent from my iPhone

On Tue, Sep 10, 2024, 4:41 PM Sellam Abraham via cctalk < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org&gt; wrote: Next week there will be 50 of them o. Ebay for this price. Warner Sellam

53 On Tue, Sep 10, 2024, 11:03 PM Mark Linimon &lt;linimon(a)portsmon.org&gt; wrote:

On Wed, Sep 11, 2024 at 11:49 AM ben via cctalk &lt;cctalk(a)classiccmp.org&gt; wrote: That link is bad. It is not good. It is the lack of cases that sadly are limited. People generally 3D print their own nowadays. And I imagine you can still buy generic enclosures of all sizes from Amazon or eBay or Ali Baba or whatever. Sellam

On 2024-09-11 2:18 p.m., Sellam Abraham via cctalk wrote: The link worked fine before the copy and paste. :( google 'isetta-ttl-computer' works But really, do have room for more computers:) There are services on line for front panels and they often do cases. I was hoping a for ham radio guy type service as well.

This was from the 360/91 at UCLA when I was there in the 1970s. I recall seeing them working on refurbishing it when I was last at the LCM a few years ago. On 9/10/24 4:50 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:

I think David meant He saw them working on refurbishing the panel itself. LCM Staff designed and Built the circuitry to generate the pseudo blinkenlights effect, along with converting to LEDs. As I recall, the Panel was the only thing left of the original 360/91. I do remember Paul Allen had spent a lot of time looking For a restorable 360, ending up with mostly bad tips. Flew a Guy to a storage building in Australia, only to Discover in person....nope. An article mentioned that, since 360s were pretty much leased machines, they Returned to IBM for summary execution..... The LCM was working on rebuilding a 360/30 they did locate, a considerably smaller entry level 360. When I last saw it they had considerable power supply rebuilding to accomplish. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Fred Cisin via cctalk &lt;cctalk(a)classiccmp.org&gt; Sent: Friday, September 13, 2024 7:43 PM To: David C. Jenner &lt;classiccmp(a)earthlink.net&gt; Cc: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts &lt;cctalk(a)classiccmp.org&gt;rg>; Fred Cisin &lt;cisin(a)xenosoft.com&gt; Subject: [cctalk] Re: auction starting in 50 minutes On Fri, 13 Sep 2024, David C. Jenner wrote: If the machine was being refurbished, why was the console display separated from the machine?

Yes, LCM had just the console. I left UCLA and moved to CDC land at UW-Seattle in '78. I don't know what happened to, or replaced, the 360/91. The main machine room at LCM was impressive. At one time I had used all the (types of) machines in it. Dave On 9/13/24 8:21 PM, Mark Huffstutter via cctalk wrote:

On Tue, Sep 10, 2024 at 05:28:35PM -0400, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: Quoting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enigma_machine "A four-rotor Enigma was introduced by the Navy for U-boat traffic on 1 February 1942, called M4 [..]" That page also has a photo of a 4-rotor Kriegsmarine Enigma machine. Kind regards, Alex. -- "Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work." -- Thomas A. Edison

I wonder if anyone has done a study of high-profile auction sale prices vs apples to apples contemporary sales prices (ebay, etc) of the same item. Paul Allen's [item name] will always sell for more that Joe Schmo's [item name]. Buyer can forever say this was Paul Allen's [item name]. The providence Sorry Joe Schmo, you're items must be sold on Ebay at regular prices. Provenance is everything on the high-end collectibles market. On Thu, Sep 12, 2024, 8:30 PM Brent Hilpert via cctalk < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org&gt; wrote:

WaIt someone paid 23k for a asr33? On Thu, Sep 12, 2024 at 8:03 PM Bill Degnan via cctalk < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org&gt; wrote:

On Thu, Sep 12, 2024, 6:13 PM Adrian Stoness via cctalk < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org&gt; wrote: Price Realised USD 23,940 Does that include the 26% buyer's premium, or is that another $6,224 for a total of $30,164 for the ASR33? https://onlineonly.christies.com/s/firsts-history-computing-paul-g-allen-co…

the On Thu, Sep 12, 2024 at 9:54 PM Brent Hilpert via cctalk < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org&gt; wrote:

On 9/12/2024 7:24 PM, Glen Slick via cctalk wrote: The "price realized" does include the 26% but not any taxes. Bob -- Vintage computers and electronics www.dvq.com www.tekmuseum.com www.decmuseum.org

Available at the curb in front of my house for free, with spare ribbons and balls... On Thu, Sep 12, 2024 at 9:19 PM cctalk--- via cctalk &lt;cctalk(a)classiccmp.org&gt; wrote:

On Thu, 12 Sep 2024, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: The closest that you can get is records of the serial number. And statements of experts. A signed statement by Abby Sciuto of his fingerprints on it, and that that was his DNA in the drop of dried blood where previous owner cut themselves on the sharp edge.

On 9/12/2024 10:44 PM, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote: Only that you got it from Christies. bill

On Fri, 13 Sep 2024, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: Perhaps it needs to be emoticon captioned for the humor impaired. Abby Sciuto is a fictional forensics epecialist in a fictional show. She does wondrous stuff, such as getting hits of computer facial recognition from reflections from a shiny car fender.

Well, to be honest 13k for a KS10 plus a TU78 (interesting, forgot they had 18 bit fiddlers) and an RM05 isn't too bad. $100k for a KA is a bit nuts, and 200k for a KI is like well ok.... But a KS is actually useful. As for the rest..... All I can think is it was really nice of the collector community to essentially donate 3 million worth of irreplaceable stuff to Paul Allen's estate. I mean I know we should just give rich people more money, but this whole experience was..... Sad. CZ

On Fri, 13 Sept 2024 at 00:59, Adrian Stoness via cctalk < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org&gt; wrote: Yes, the provenance would certainly be attractive to museums, even museums that do not necessarily specialize in technology, and some of those have very deep pockets. I was wondering what percentage of the Christie's auction went to museums rather than private collectors. I suppose only time will tell. -Henry

When I left CA for NV in 2019 I sold the bulk of my IBM related stuff to the CMoA. It was a heavy Apple place at the time. My stuff moved Lonnie into the IBM world. The stuff filled the floor of a 26 ft truck. He paid for shipping. I then put together a half pallet of stragglers that he arranged for pickup. I went to the grand opening. He had an archivist that was not an I.T. geek. Did many emails explaining what stuff was.

u had one of the nixie tube displays for the evm tape drives? did u get that off that ukrainian fellow? ive got the m4030 panels he had On Fri, Sep 13, 2024 at 8:29 AM cctalk--- via cctalk &lt;cctalk(a)classiccmp.org&gt; wrote:

time flys still cool stumbling into one as not allot of the soviet stuff gets seen in NA or in general On Fri, Sep 13, 2024 at 10:17 AM cctalk--- via cctalk &lt;cctalk(a)classiccmp.org&gt; wrote:

could be 2 people having a pising contest that have money or did it belong to paul allen or somthing silly On Fri, Sep 13, 2024 at 12:39 PM Paul Koning via cctalk < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org&gt; wrote:

Much bigger, not what was generally used, does not bring back memories. Bit surprised it fetched that much,, That sounds like the biggest load of twaddle I have ever heard. When I was at Uni we had ASR33s that were in solid use and I don't ever remember them ever being out of order. Like all mechanical kit they do need regular lubrication, but then so did IBM2741 golf ball typewriter.... .. If you look here for example https://robs-old-computers.com/projects/mu5/mu5-pictures/ and scroll down there is an ASR33 as the console of MU5, one of Manchester Universities Experimental Computers. This thing ran 24 hours a day.. Dave

"Charity" for this group is an interesting concept. Check into what kinds of "charities" get money from these foundations. That said, oh well. Lessons learned all around from this, least of all that any of us with a hoard is now RICH RICH RICH!!!! WOOHOO!!! C On 9/13/2024 12:50 AM, Adrian Stoness via cctalk wrote:

Wondering, what will happen with the XDS Sigma 9 and the DECsystem 2020 with their disk drives...  To my little understanding, the CDC 9766 of the Sigma and the CDC disk pack drives of the Sigma were the only large disk pack drives known to be operationable. I am truly curious if they will be ever operated again. Though this question applies to all large systems sold during that auction lot. Cheers, Pierre ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.digitalheritage.de Am Freitag, 13. September 2024 um 02:30:11 MESZ hat Brent Hilpert via cctalk &lt;cctalk(a)classiccmp.org&gt; Folgendes geschrieben: This lot-group is closed. Sale prices were insane.     https://onlineonly.christies.com/s/firsts-history-computing-paul-g-allen-co… <https://onlineonly.christies.com/s/firsts-history-computing-paul-g-allen-collection/lots/3726> (In my estimation) a few items went for high but maybe-semi-sensible prices, everything else was stratosphere. ASR-33:  24K$  !! ? !!