8 Mar
2023
8 Mar
'23
8:18 p.m.
Hi,
I acquired an IBM PS/2 Model 80 (8580-071) today and am looking for
advice on what I should do to check it out before, during, and after
applying power for the first time.
I'll try to get some pictures if anyone is interested.
The label near the power switch says that it's an 8580-071. I have no
idea how that compares to the hardware that's in it.
There are two full size (5¼) hard drives, the controller card. I don't
know what type of drives they are yet, they look to be MFM / RLL like in
that they have the common cable and a per drive cable.
There is a video card that has a daughter-card in the same slot like a
thick sandwich.
There is another card that I don't recognize. The card doesn't have any
external connectors and it looks like it takes multiple (approximately
4"x4") daughter-cards. I am wondering if this is a memory expansion of
some sort.
There are two of what I believe are the memory boards between the back
hard drive and the power supply.
The battery is still in the system, but I didn't see any corrosion and
it's away from the motherboard.
There is also the degrading black foam used for air ducting. Blech.
Q: What things should I do as part of checking out this system. I'd
like to eventually power it up and see what is on the drives (if they
will spin).
I need to physically clean it with a damp rag and get some pictures of
the system.
Please share any pro-tips / gotchas / etc. that you think I could
benefit from knowing.
Thank you and have a good day.
--
Grant. . . .
unix || die
8 Mar
8 Mar
11:01 p.m.
On Mar 8, 2023, at 8:18 PM, Grant Taylor via cctalk
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
The label near the power switch says that it's an 8580-071. I have no idea how that
compares to the hardware that's in it.
That would be 16 MHz, one 70 MB ESDI HDD (IBM 0667). Maximum 2 MB on the planar (2x 1 MB
modules).
There is a video card that has a daughter-card in the
same slot like a thick sandwich.
likely 8514/A
There is another card that I don't recognize. The
card doesn't have any external connectors and it looks like it takes multiple
(approximately 4"x4") daughter-cards. I am wondering if this is a memory
expansion of some sort.
Yes.
There are two of what I believe are the memory boards
between the back hard drive and the power supply.
Yes.
Blech.
Yes.
Please share any pro-tips / gotchas / etc. that you
think I could benefit from knowing.
You’ll want the reference disk, and the option disks for the various boards installed. The
base reference disk should have the necessary files to configure the ESDI controller and
drives, might also have the necessary files to configure the memory expansion boards (not
sure). Probably won’t have the 8514/A files so you’ll definitely need that option disk,
unless you copy a reference disk already customized with support for those options.
ok
bear.
9 Mar
9 Mar
5:20 a.m.
First and foremost, try to boot the computer to make note of the
configuration, if there is one still stored in the system. I don't expect
the battery to have held the config but there is always hope. Make
detailed notes if you're lucky enough to have the configs saved. Otherwise
get a new battery before you do anything or you'll be spinning your wheels.
Bill
On Thu, Mar 9, 2023 at 2:02 AM r.stricklin via cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
wrote:
On Mar 8, 2023, at 8:18 PM, Grant Taylor via
cctalk <
cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
The label near the power switch says that it's an 8580-071. I have no
idea how that compares to the hardware that's in it.
That would be 16 MHz, one 70 MB ESDI HDD (IBM 0667). Maximum 2 MB on the
planar (2x 1 MB modules).
There is a video card that has a daughter-card in
the same slot like a
thick sandwich.
likely 8514/A
There is another card that I don't recognize.
The card doesn't have any
external connectors and it looks like it takes multiple (approximately
4"x4") daughter-cards. I am wondering if this is a memory expansion of
some sort.
Yes.
There are two of what I believe are the memory
boards between the back
hard drive and the power supply.
Yes.
Blech.
Yes.
Please share any pro-tips / gotchas / etc. that
you think I could
benefit from knowing.
You’ll want the reference disk, and the option disks for the various
boards installed. The base reference disk should have the necessary files
to configure the ESDI controller and drives, might also have the necessary
files to configure the memory expansion boards (not sure). Probably won’t
have the 8514/A files so you’ll definitely need that option disk, unless
you copy a reference disk already customized with support for those options.
ok
bear.
7:35 a.m.
On 3/9/23 6:20 AM, Bill Degnan wrote:
First and foremost, try to boot the computer to make
note of the
configuration, if there is one still stored in the system.
Hum. That sort of surprises me. I naively assumed that there would be
some work that I should do before powering the system on to make sure
that there weren't any spicy components that would make me regret my
choices. Did IBM not use Rifas? Is there any other hardware concerns?
I am somewhat worried about stiction on the old hard drives.
But I tend to not work on systems this old that have been sitting for a
long time often enough to know what I should check.
I'm guessing this system is from about a decade (or more) before failing
capacitors were common place on ... economy systems.
I don't expect the battery to have held the config
but there is
always hope.
Agreed.
This is far from my first time working with IBM PS/2s, so the lack of a
configuration isn't a big concern to me. I'm well aware of reference
disks / option disks / convenience partitions on models that support them.
Make detailed notes if you're lucky enough to have
the configs saved.
Otherwise get a new battery before you do anything or you'll be
spinning your wheels.
It's been just long enough since the last time I worked on a PS/2 that I
can't remember if the battery was required at any power off or just
power removed from the PSU. I've had different systems behavie
differently in this regard with a dead BIOS battery.
--
Grant. . . .
unix || die
9:16 a.m.
On 9-Mar-23 10h36. Grant Taylor wrote:
On 3/9/23 6:20 AM, Bill Degnan wrote:
> First and foremost, try to boot the computer to make note of the
> configuration, if there is one still stored in the system.
Nowhere do I see any mention of a Model 80 Reference Disk. If you don't have one of
these, you will not be able to configure the machine. I _should_ have a copy of one lying
around (or already imaged/archived) - the main problem is finding the ADF (Adaptor
Description Files) for the added features/cards. My copy of the Reference Disk would not
likely have any ADFs from obscure cards, but should have the common files. Let me know if
you need a copy. I recall that I had a 'master diskette' with many collected ADFs
which came through the lab. Would have to look for that one, if interested. ADFs were text
files with descriptions of hardware addresses and the like.
Hum. That sort of surprises me. I naively assumed
that there would be some work that I should do before powering the system on to make sure
that there >weren't any spicy components that would make me regret my choices. Did
IBM not use Rifas? Is there any other hardware concerns?
Not sure of what you mean by 'Rifas' in the last question. Probably an acronym or
other abbreviation of something I may know about, but nothing comes to my foggy brain
presently.
I am somewhat worried about stiction on the old hard
drives.
"Stiction" is probably not your biggest concern regarding the hard drives. The
real problem could be stuck bearings - depending upon HDD model installed.
"Stiction" is the condition where the spindle motor did not have enough torque
to free the head from the platter surfaces - the drives used in all of the PS/2 Model 80
machines that we saw were beefy enough to overcome any "stiction" condition. We,
in the repair lab (years ago, of course), used to see this on the original Apple Mac SE
and SE/30 machines where a Sony 20Mb drive was used (the model number has long since been
forgotten and is irrelevant to our discussion, of course) but we used to give them
assistance to last a couple of startups (or at least one!) for backing up data by using
our "inertial rotation" technique to physically spin the drive using hand
motion. We would (wrist-strap grounded, of course) grab with our free arm the drive in
axial alignment over the spindle and rotate the drive a few times around back and forth in
a snapping action. 95% of the time it would work to retrieve the data before we would RMA
the drive back to Apple.
But I tend to not work on systems this old that have
been sitting for a long time often enough to know what I should check.
I'm guessing this system is from about a decade (or
more) before failing capacitors were common place on ... economy systems.
> I don't expect the battery to have held the
config but there is always
> hope.
Agreed.
This is far from my first time working with IBM PS/2s,
so the lack of a configuration isn't a big concern to me. I'm well aware of
reference disks / option disks / >convenience partitions on models that support them.
> Make detailed notes if you're lucky enough to
have the configs saved.
> Otherwise get a new battery before you do anything or you'll be
> spinning your wheels.
It's been just long enough since the last time I
worked on a PS/2 that I can't remember if the battery was required at any power off or
just power removed from >the PSU. I've had different systems behavie differently
in this regard with a dead BIOS battery.
The battery used is one of the old 6V photoflash types (cannot recall the model,
unfortunately). I have a few of them left in my collection - just ran into them in a box
(with 2 or 3 left) a few months ago. Each still had over 6v (no load) at the terminals. No
idea how long they would last in application under load, though, even though the Model 80
didn't use too much current to hold things in config memory.
Just my $0.02 (not even sure it was worth that much). Good luck with your 80.
11:56 a.m.
On 3/9/23 10:16 AM, John Maxwell wrote:
Nowhere do I see any mention of a Model 80 Reference
Disk. If you don't
have one of these, you will not be able to configure the machine.
Yep. I'm well aware. This is not my 1st PS/2 rodeo. I actually cut my
teeth on used PS/2s in the mid-90s.
I _should_ have a copy of one lying around (or already
imaged/archived)
- the main problem is finding the ADF (Adaptor Description Files)
for the added features/cards.
The usual suspects in the comp.sys.ibm.ps2.hardware newsgroup have
already provided links to some ADF files for what they assume the boards
likely are based on my descriptions.
Aside: I thought that ADF was short for Auto Definition File. But I
can see how Adapter works too.
My copy of the Reference Disk would not likely have
any ADFs from
obscure cards, but should have the common files.
Based on my descriptions, the presumption is that I've got a standard
(for the model 80) ESDI controller, an 8514/A video card, and an IBM 386
Memory Expansion Adapter. I don't consider those to be too exotic.
Let me know if you need a copy. I recall that I had a
'master diskette'
with many collected ADFs which came through the lab. Would have to look
for that one, if interested.
I'm always interested in growing my ADF collection. :-)
ADFs were text files with descriptions of hardware
addresses and
the like.
That sounds like what I remember.
Not sure of what you mean by 'Rifas' in the
last question. Probably
an acronym or other abbreviation of something I may know about,
but nothing comes to my foggy brain presently.
My understanding is that RIFA is a brand of capacitor which had a model
like which is notorious for failing after time and they seemed to be
common in the '90s.
"Stiction" is probably not your biggest
concern regarding the hard
drives. The real problem could be stuck bearings - depending upon HDD
model installed. "Stiction" is the condition where the spindle motor
did not have enough torque to free the head from the platter surfaces
- the drives used in all of the PS/2 Model 80 machines that we saw
were beefy enough to overcome any "stiction" condition. We, in the
repair lab (years ago, of course), used to see this on the original
Apple Mac SE and SE/30 machines where a Sony 20Mb drive was used
(the model number has long since been forgotten and is irrelevant
to our discussion, of course) but we used to give them assistance
to last a couple of startups (or at least one!) for backing up data
by using our "inertial rotation" technique to physically spin the
drive using hand motion. We would (wrist-strap grounded, of course)
grab with our free arm the drive in axial alignment over the spindle
and rotate the drive a few times around back and forth in a snapping
action. 95% of the time it would work to retrieve the data before we
would RMA the drive back to Apple.
*nod* That's what I was referring to as sticktion.
I don't know the state of the bearings. Is there anything that I can or
should do for them?
The battery used is one of the old 6V photoflash types
(cannot recall
the model, unfortunately). I have a few of them left in my collection -
just ran into them in a box (with 2 or 3 left) a few months ago. Each
still had over 6v (no load) at the terminals. No idea how long they
would last in application under load, though, even though the Model
80 didn't use too much current to hold things in config memory.
ACK
My assumption is that the Model 80 has been powered off for years, if
not a decade or more. It's on the older end of a five computers I
picked up from someone who wanted them hauled away. I'm not holding my
breath that they powered the PS/2 on anytime in the last decade. ;-)
Just my $0.02 (not even sure it was worth that much).
Good luck with
your 80.
Thank you. You're sharing things that seem familiar. Which is
appreciated because it means that my memory isn't that far out of
calibration or bit rot.
--
Grant. . . .
unix || die
1:24 p.m.
On 3/9/23 10:16 AM, John Maxwell wrote:
> Nowhere do I see any mention of a Model 80 Reference Disk. If you
> don't have one of these, you will not be able to configure the machine.
Yep. I'm well aware. This is not my 1st PS/2
rodeo. I actually cut my teeth on used PS/2s in the mid-90s.
> I _should_ have a copy of one lying around (or
already
>imaged/archived)
> - the main problem is finding the ADF (Adaptor Description Files) for
> the added features/cards.
The usual suspects in the comp.sys.ibm.ps2.hardware
newsgroup have already provided links to some ADF files for what they assume the boards
likely are based >on my descriptions.
Aside: I thought that ADF was short for Auto
Definition File. But I can see how Adapter works too.
> My copy of the Reference Disk would not likely
have any ADFs from
> obscure cards, but should have the common files.
Based on my descriptions, the presumption is that
I've got a standard (for the model 80) ESDI controller, an 8514/A video card, and an
IBM 386 Memory Expansion >Adapter. I don't consider those to be too exotic.
[snip]
I'm always interested in growing my ADF collection.
:-)
Is there a repository to where I can upload diskette images? What format is in widespread
use these days? I use DiskImage (Ver5) and Dave Dunfield's ImageDisk (Ver1.17) - both
work well. I seem to recall that DiskImage is a commercial product and ImageDisk is still
available for free.
> ADFs were text files with descriptions of hardware
addresses and the
> like.
That sounds like what I remember.
> Not sure of what you mean by 'Rifas' in
the last question. Probably an
> acronym or other abbreviation of something I may know about, but
> nothing comes to my foggy brain presently.
My understanding is that RIFA is a brand of capacitor
which had a model like which is notorious for failing after time and they seemed to be
common in the '90s.
Not sure that IBM would use cheap *anything* in their equipment.
[snip]
*nod* That's what I was referring to as
sticktion.
A word of warning, the "inertial rotation" procedure was great for smaller
drives, but you may break your arm applying this to an ESDI :-)
I don't know the state of the bearings. Is there
anything that I can or should do for them?
Aside from dismantling the drive, not really. Just cross your fingers and pray. Usually
not a problem. I have an ST225 which had been powered off for two decades and it came up
fine in my DEC Rainbow!
> The battery used is one of the old 6V photoflash
types (cannot recall
> the model, unfortunately). I have a few of them left in my collection
> - just ran into them in a box (with 2 or 3 left) a few months ago.
> Each still had over 6v (no load) at the terminals. No idea how long
> they would last in application under load, though, even though the
> Model
> 80 didn't use too much current to hold things in config memory.
ACK
My assumption is that the Model 80 has been powered off
for years, if not a decade or more. It's on the older end of a five computers I
picked up from someone >who wanted them hauled away. I'm not holding my breath
that they powered the PS/2 on anytime in the last decade. ;-)
It is my belief that these batteries should still be available from somewhere. If I think
of it when I get home, I'll dig out the box and relay the model number. Provided that
the box is still where I remember.
> Just my $0.02 (not even sure it was worth that
much). Good luck with
> your 80.
Thank you. You're sharing things that seem
familiar. Which is appreciated because it means that my memory isn't that far out of
calibration or bit rot.
11:17 p.m.
Snip
On Mar 9, 2023, at 10:57 PM, John Maxwell via cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
Is there a repository to where I can upload diskette images? What format is in widespread
use these days? I use DiskImage (Ver5) and Dave Dunfield's ImageDisk (Ver1.17) - both
work well. I seem to recall that DiskImage is a commercial product and ImageDisk is still
available for free.
Some may disagree , but i upload stuff like this to the Internet Archive.
On 3/9/23 10:16 AM, John Maxwell wrote:
Nowhere do I see any mention of a Model 80 Reference Disk. If you
don't have one of these, you will not be able to configure the machine.
> ADFs were text files with descriptions of
hardware addresses and the
> like.
That sounds like what I remember.
> Not sure of what you mean by 'Rifas'
in the last question. Probably an
> acronym or other abbreviation of something I may know about, but
> nothing comes to my foggy brain presently.
My understanding is that RIFA is a brand of
capacitor which had a model like which is notorious for failing after time and they seemed
to be common in the '90s.
Not sure that IBM would use cheap *anything* in their equipment.
[snip]
*nod* That's what I was referring to as
sticktion.
A word of warning, the "inertial rotation" procedure was great for smaller
drives, but you may break your arm applying this to an ESDI :-)
I don't know the state of the bearings. Is
there anything that I can or should do for them?
Aside from dismantling the drive, not really. Just cross your fingers and pray. Usually
not a problem. I have an ST225 which had been powered off for two decades and it came up
fine in my DEC Rainbow!
> The battery used is one of the old 6V
photoflash types (cannot recall
> the model, unfortunately). I have a few of them left in my collection
> - just ran into them in a box (with 2 or 3 left) a few months ago.
> Each still had over 6v (no load) at the terminals. No idea how long
> they would last in application under load, though, even though the
> Model
> 80 didn't use too much current to hold things in config memory.
ACK
My assumption is that the Model 80 has been
powered off for years, if not a decade or more. It's on the older end of a five
computers I picked up from someone >who wanted them hauled away. I'm not holding
my breath that they powered the PS/2 on anytime in the last decade. ;-)
It is my belief that these batteries should still be available from somewhere. If I think
of it when I get home, I'll dig out the box and relay the model number. Provided that
the box is still where I remember.
> Just my $0.02 (not even sure it was worth
that much). Good luck with
> your 80.
Thank you. You're sharing things that seem
familiar. Which is appreciated because it means that my memory isn't that far out of
calibration or bit rot.
10 Mar
10 Mar
10:12 a.m.
On 3/9/23 2:24 PM, John Maxwell wrote:
Is there a repository to where I can upload diskette
images?
As others have indicated, the Internet Archive seems to be an acceptable
place.
There are some other places that are more subject matter specific. The
A.T.C. comes to mind for IBM PS/2 stuff.
What format is in widespread use these days?
I have long used a simple `dd` raw image created at the Linux command
line. There are a number of tools that are compatible with the same format.
I use DiskImage (Ver5) and Dave Dunfield's
ImageDisk (Ver1.17) -
both work well. I seem to recall that DiskImage is a commercial
product and ImageDisk is still available for free.
When I inquired about archiving PC disks used in 'DOS / 'Windows
(compatible) computers in the past, I learned that `dd` raw images and
possibly an archive (e.g. zip) of the files on said disk is usually
sufficient. It seems as if you need to start getting more complicated
when you start playing outside of 'DOS / 'Windows (compatible) world.
Not sure that IBM would use cheap *anything* in their
equipment.
I don't know that RIFA was cheap, in any sense of the word. I think of
it as a line of components that had a design flaw that likely results in
an energetic failure at some point.
A word of warning, the "inertial rotation"
procedure was great for
smaller drives, but you may break your arm applying this to an ESDI :-)
Yep.
I've done the "inertial rotation" a few times in the past. A few of
which were full size (read: 3" x 5¼" x 6+" drives), which usually meant
setting it up side down on a table (often with something smooth between
the table and drive) and using both hands to twist on the motor axis
specifically to avoid injuring myself.
Aside from dismantling the drive, not really. Just
cross your fingers
and pray. Usually not a problem. I have an ST225 which had been
powered off for two decades and it came up fine in my DEC Rainbow!
ACK
It is my belief that these batteries should still be
available from
somewhere. If I think of it when I get home, I'll dig out the box
and relay the model number. Provided that the box is still where
I remember.
Thank you.
As others have mentioned, the batteries are available in some common
locations. I don't think it will be too difficult to acquire one.
Seeing as how the old battery is still in there I have the make and
model. Then there's all the documentation around the web.
--
Grant. . . .
unix || die
12:45 p.m.
A word of warning, the "inertial rotation"
procedure was great for
smaller drives, but you may break your arm applying this to an ESDI
:-)
Not necessarily.
Not all ESDI drives are physically large.
In one generic PC, I used an ESDI drive, that I bought used, with a WD -7
controller. It was a 3.5" half-height 200MB drive. (my first ESDI, my
first 3.5" HDD, and my first HDD over 100MB (I was using a lot of
ST4096's in other machines))
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin(a)xenosoft.com
9 Mar
9 Mar
12:03 p.m.
On Thu, Mar 9, 2023 at 2:22 PM John Maxwell via cctalk <
cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
no caps like that, this is an IBM.
Even if there is stiction you should still try to boot and capture as much
info as you can first before you replace the battery.
On 9-Mar-23 10h36. Grant Taylor wrote:
That's my point, at least try the system see if it works as is, but assume
the battery is just about dead if not completely. May have enough juice
for one or two more boots. so get the info out of it you can. The chances
a model 80 will smoke out or catch fire is less enough to make that a
secondary concern.
On 3/9/23 6:20 AM, Bill Degnan wrote:
> First and foremost, try to boot the computer to make note of the
> configuration, if there is one still stored in the system.
Nowhere do I see any mention of a Model 80 Reference Disk. If you don't
have one of these, you will not be able to configure the machine. I
_should_ have a copy of one lying around (or already imaged/archived) - the
main problem is finding the ADF (Adaptor Description Files) for the added
features/cards. My copy of the Reference Disk would not likely have any
ADFs from obscure cards, but should have the common files. Let me know if
you need a copy. I recall that I had a 'master diskette' with many
collected ADFs which came through the lab. Would have to look for that one,
if interested. ADFs were text files with descriptions of hardware addresses
and the like.
Hum. That sort of surprises me. I naively
assumed that there would be
some work that I should do before powering the system on to make sure that
there >weren't any spicy components that would make me regret my choices.
Did IBM not use Rifas? Is there any other hardware concerns?
Not sure of what you mean by 'Rifas' in the last question. Probably an
acronym or other abbreviation of something I may know about, but nothing
comes to my foggy brain presently.
I am somewhat
worried about stiction on the old hard drives.
"Stiction" is probably not your biggest concern regarding the hard drives.
The real problem could be stuck bearings - depending upon HDD model
installed. "Stiction" is the condition where the spindle motor did not have
enough torque to free the head from the platter surfaces - the drives used
in all of the PS/2 Model 80 machines that we saw were beefy enough to
overcome any "stiction" condition. We, in the repair lab (years ago, of
course), used to see this on the original Apple Mac SE and SE/30 machines
where a Sony 20Mb drive was used (the model number has long since been
forgotten and is irrelevant to our discussion, of course) but we used to
give them assistance to last a couple of startups (or at least one!) for
backing up data by using our "inertial rotation" technique to physically
spin the drive using hand motion. We would (wrist-strap grounded, of
course) grab with our free arm the drive in axial alignment over the
spindle and rotate the drive a few times around back and forth in a
snapping action. 95% of the time it would work to retrieve the data before
we would RMA the drive back to Apple.
I used to work at IBM when they sold these.
Bill
But I tend to not work on systems this old that
have been sitting for a
long time often enough to know what I should check.
<snip>
12:40 p.m.
On 3/9/23 1:03 PM, Bill Degnan wrote:
That's my point, at least try the system see if it
works as is, but
assume the battery is just about dead if not completely. May have
enough juice for one or two more boots. so get the info out of it
you can.
I'm curious, what do you think /might/ be about to be lost that's of value.
Based on my understanding, the system seems fairly stock, an IBM ESDI
controller, an IBM graphics controller, and what appears to be an IBM
memory expansion. I naively assume that re-configuring those from the
ground up would not be a problem. Of course that's predicated on a
reference disk with the proper ADF files.
I'm assuming that said reference disk, ADF files, and possibly option
disk can be acquired.
The chances a model 80 will smoke out or catch fire is
less enough
to make that a secondary concern.
Thank you for that.
no caps like that, this is an IBM.
Cool.
I didn't think so. But it's been a long time since I've worked on a
computer 25+ years old. I'm more cautious now than I was the last time
I did so.
Even if there is stiction you should still try to boot
and capture
as much info as you can first before you replace the battery.
Based on previous experience with PS/2s, and re-configuring from the
ground up, I'm not too worried.
I'd be likely to acquire a new battery and another power source to
connect to the battery terminals while I replace the battery.
That being said, I should take my volt meter and see if there's anything
at all. If it's dead, then there's not any point in hurrying.
I used to work at IBM when they sold these.
:-)
--
Grant. . . .
unix || die
12:49 p.m.
On Thu, Mar 9, 2023 at 3:40 PM Grant Taylor via cctalk <
cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
On 3/9/23 1:03 PM, Bill Degnan wrote:
I have worked on enough of these to not take chances. It's a pain if you
have to guess. If you can't get into the hard drive you can't read the
config.sys and autoexec.bat for clues, you can't run a diagnostics as
easily. So it's just conservative, my approach. But yes you could just say
this is a stock system I have the ref disks I don't see any need to worry.
Sounds like you have worked on these enough to know and that's good enough
for me.
That's my point, at least try the system see
if it works as is, but
assume the battery is just about dead if not completely. May have
enough juice for one or two more boots. so get the info out of it
you can.
I'm curious, what do you think /might/ be about to be lost that's of value.
Based on my understanding, the system seems fairly stock, an IBM ESDI
controller, an IBM graphics controller, and what appears to be an IBM
memory expansion. I naively assume that re-configuring those from the
ground up would not be a problem. Of course that's predicated on a
reference disk with the proper ADF files.
I'm assuming that said reference disk, ADF files, and possibly option
disk can be acquired.
THis goes without saying but don't remove the battery!
b
The chances a model 80 will smoke out or catch
fire is less enough
to make that a secondary concern.
Thank you for that.
no caps like that, this is an IBM.
Cool.
I didn't think so. But it's been a long time since I've worked on a
computer 25+ years old. I'm more cautious now than I was the last time
I did so.
Even if there is stiction you should still try to
boot and capture
as much info as you can first before you replace the battery.
Based on previous experience with PS/2s, and re-configuring from the
ground up, I'm not too worried.
I'd be likely to acquire a new battery and another power source to
connect to the battery terminals while I replace the battery.
That being said, I should take my volt meter and see if there's anything
at all. If it's dead, then there's not any point in hurrying.
I used to work at IBM when they sold these.
:-)
1:24 p.m.
On 3/9/23 1:49 PM, Bill Degnan wrote:
I have worked on enough of these to not take chances.
It's a pain if
you have to guess. If you can't get into the hard drive you can't read
the config.sys and autoexec.bat for clues, you can't run a diagnostics
as easily. So it's just conservative, my approach. But yes you could
just say this is a stock system I have the ref disks I don't see any
need to worry. Sounds like you have worked on these enough to know
and that's good enough for me.
Fair enough.
I think it's definitely safe to say that I know that razors are sharp
and not to run with scissors.
Your conservative approach sounds reasonable. Especially if I don't
need to worry about components releasing magic smoke being a likely thing.
THis goes without saying but don't remove the
battery!
I completely agree, don't remove the battery if it's doing its job.
But I'm not aware of any effective difference -- with regard to the
configuration -- of a dead battery vs missing battery.
When I mentioned power source, I was thinking along the lines of a
booster pack plugged into the cigarette lighter powering clocks and the
likes while replacing the main car battery.
But if everything is, and has been, at zero volts for a while, then
there's quite likely not anything to be saved.
--
Grant. . . .
unix || die
10 Mar
10 Mar
1:15 a.m.
On Thu, 9 Mar 2023, John Maxwell wrote:
Nowhere do I see any mention of a Model 80 Reference
Disk. If you don't
have one of these, you will not be able to configure the machine. I
_should_ have a copy of one lying around (or already imaged/archived) -
https://ardent-tool.com/disks/
https://ardent-tool.com/disks/rf7080a.zip
https://ardent-tool.com/8580/Common.html
First result from Google.
(The Model 80 is identical to the Model 70 in this respect. The 80 is the
tower version of the 70 desktop)
Christian
12:46 p.m.
On 3/8/23 9:18 PM, Grant Taylor wrote:
I acquired an IBM PS/2 Model 80 (8580-071) today and
am looking for
advice on what I should do to check it out before, during, and after
applying power for the first time.
After many comments here and elsewhere indicating that nothing should
smoke, I went ahead and powered the system on.
No smoke!
But no beep nor video output nor keyboard LED activity either. (From
known working monitor and keyboard.)
It did sound like both drives spun up without a problem.
I suspect that I'm going to need to take the thing fully apart and clean
it and re-assemble it.
I may need to end up acquiring / building the parallel port diagnostic
light (LED) adapter to see if I'm getting /anything/ out of the system
plainer or if it is truly only power to peripherals.
Thank you all for the comments. If there is interest, I'll share
pictures later.
--
Grant. . . .
unix || die
12:57 p.m.
On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 12:47 PM Grant Taylor via cctalk <
cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
On 3/8/23 9:18 PM, Grant Taylor wrote:
Don't underestimate the troubleshooting utility of re-seating every chip
that is socketed.
Sellam
I acquired an IBM PS/2 Model 80 (8580-071) today
and am looking for
advice on what I should do to check it out before, during, and after
applying power for the first time.
After many comments here and elsewhere indicating that nothing should
smoke, I went ahead and powered the system on.
No smoke!
But no beep nor video output nor keyboard LED activity either. (From
known working monitor and keyboard.)
It did sound like both drives spun up without a problem.
I suspect that I'm going to need to take the thing fully apart and clean
it and re-assemble it.
I may need to end up acquiring / building the parallel port diagnostic
light (LED) adapter to see if I'm getting /anything/ out of the system
plainer or if it is truly only power to peripherals.
Thank you all for the comments. If there is interest, I'll share
pictures later.
--
Grant. . . .
2:36 p.m.
On 3/10/23 1:57 PM, Sellam Abraham wrote:
Don't underestimate the troubleshooting utility of
re-seating every
chip that is socketed.
Fair enough.
Though I think there are very few socketed chips:
Link - IBM PS/2 Model 80 "Type 1" (386DX-16) Planer
- https://ardent-tool.com/8580/Planar_T1_Photo_Front.jpg
I think this will become a slow / long term project.
The system is going to get the battery removed, and then packed away for
a move. Once moved and I have a workbench set up I'll get things back
out and work on it some more.
I'll probably do some reading ~> research, including A.T.C.. I'll
likely try to acquire the parallel port test harness.
--
Grant. . . .
unix || die
5:10 p.m.
On 3/10/23 16:36, Grant Taylor via cctalk wrote:
On 3/10/23 1:57 PM, Sellam Abraham wrote:
Certainly check the Power OK signal from the power supply,
if that isn't working the whole system will be frozen.
Jon
Don't underestimate the troubleshooting
utility of
re-seating every chip that is socketed.
Fair enough.
11 Mar
11 Mar
8:38 a.m.
On 3/10/23 6:10 PM, Jon Elson wrote:
Certainly check the Power OK signal from the power
supply, if that
isn't working the whole system will be frozen.
When I next spend some time on the system I will check the voltages from
the power supply.
Will I be able to get an accurate measurement if I remove the tails from
the motherboard and drives? Or do I need to have some sort of load on
the power supply? E.g. a sacrificial hard drive that I don't care about.
--
Grant. . . .
unix || die
409
days inactive
411
days old
19 comments
9 participants
participants (9)
-
Bill Degnan -
Christian Corti -
Fred Cisin -
Grant Taylor -
John Maxwell -
Jon Elson -
r.stricklin -
Sellam Abraham -
Wayne S