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Re: Information on Trend UTR 700...

Re: VT-100 Text Windows library

Donald Whittemore

10 Dec 2024 10 Dec '24

11:59 p.m.

NEAT/3 instructions www.myimagecollection.com/webdocs/neat3.pdf Misc instructions www.myimagecollection.com/webdocs/pl-o.pdf Misc Assembler www.myimagecollection.com/webdocs/miscassembler.pdf IBM beginnings www.myimagecollection.com/webdocs/beginning.pdf New IBM OS www.myimagecollection.com/webdocs/newibmos.pdf

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Fred Cisin

11 Dec 11 Dec

12:22 a.m.

On Tue, 10 Dec 2024, Donald Whittemore via cctalk wrote:

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Thank you for the info on undocumented instructions. But, to what extent can we count on second-source and after-market manufacturers to implement them in compatable forms? -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin(a)xenosoft.com

Donald Whittemore

12:32 a.m.

Been waiting 45 years for the new IBM OS. Not holding my breath. :)

Rick Bensene

1:21 a.m.

...

Been waiting 45 years for the new IBM OS. Not holding my breath. :)

Ahhh...but are you sure we're all not already running as tasks under OS/VR? :-) -Rick

Mike Katz

1:42 a.m.

Or, more importantly, are we all living in a VR? What is reality? On 12/10/2024 7:21 PM, Rick Bensene via cctalk wrote:

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Been waiting 45 years for the new IBM OS. Not holding my breath. :)

Ahhh...but are you sure we're all not already running as tasks under OS/VR? :-) -Rick

Cameron Kaiser

1:51 a.m.

...

Or, more importantly, are we all living in a VR?

"Knowledge for the peop...pupil, he said. Give them a light and they'll follow it anywhere. We think that is a fair and a wise guide, rule, to be guided by ..."

...

What is reality?

-- ------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ -- Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser(a)floodgap.com -- The whippings shall continue until morale improves. ------------------------

ben

5:19 a.m.

On 2024-12-10 6:42 p.m., Mike Katz via cctalk wrote:

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Or, more importantly, are we all living in a VR? What is reality? On 12/10/2024 7:21 PM, Rick Bensene via cctalk wrote: > >> Been waiting 45 years for the new IBM OS. Not holding my breath. :) > > > Ahhh...but are you sure we're all not already running as tasks under > OS/VR? >

...

-Rick

Where is a the PDP stuff? Today; DEC 10 model 2024 feels right for VR.

Donald Whittemore

1:24 p.m.

Sorry, I was a mainframe guy. Did not mess with those ‘toys.’

Mike Katz

12:31 a.m.

I believe in the late 70's or early 80's Byte magazine did an April Fool's issue that had many of those instructions but other than Halt and Catch Fire I think the best one was: EXOP Execute Operator (Use of this instruction has been deprecated due to shrinking programmer pool) /The fact that that is a double entendre just makes it even better than any of the others that I have seen./ A few others I liked: HALTI Halt Intermittently SPEOT Seek Past End of Tape (Common DECTAPE problem) A few other related things I have seen: "On a clear disk you can seek forever" "Dark Emitting Diode" "Stop this RIM RAM or I will DEC you" And a couple of acronyms: *M*aybe *I* *C*an *R*ip *O*ff *S*ome *O*ther *F*ailed *T*echnology *W*hy *I*nvest *N*eedless *D*ollars *O*n *W*orking *S*oftware On 12/10/2024 5:59 PM, Donald Whittemore via cctalk wrote:

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Nigel Johnson Ham

1:37 p.m.

To add my .02 worth there was also the programmer that thought seek times referred to a New Delhi newspaper In EE, a stable 'Q' point was often understood to mean where the horses lined up for their oats. and DeMorgan's theorem can be reduced to 'change everything and it will still do the same' My all-time favourite was the PDP11 processor manual that actually got out before the footnote 'plus 20 minutes on a Saturday night' referring to the Sign Extend signal delayed for 40 ns after MSync was caught by marketing and the manuals ordered recalled! sorry, Nigel On 2024-12-10 19:31, Mike Katz via cctalk wrote:

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-- Nigel Johnson, MSc., MIEEE, MCSE VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept! Skype: TILBURY2591

Henry Bent

1:28 a.m.

On Tue, 10 Dec 2024 at 19:17, Donald Whittemore via cctalk < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:

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Do you have approximate dates for any of these? The fictional 360 instructions seem to be quite similar between iterations, and I'm curious where they initially came from. If an original source were to be found, it would seem to be the origin of the phrase "halt and catch fire." -Henry

Donald Whittemore

1:35 a.m.

Has to be the mid to late 80s. The new OS paper is 1989. I wrote it. :)

Henry Bent

1:44 a.m.

On Tue, 10 Dec 2024 at 20:35, Donald Whittemore via cctalk < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:

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Has to be the mid to late 80s. The new OS paper is 1989. I wrote it. :)

Interesting, I would have guessed older. Wikipedia links to Creative Computing from April 1980 which has a list of them ( https://archive.org/details/creativecomputing-1980-04/page/n205/mode/2up?vi… ) but I doubt that's the real origin. -Henry

Doug Jackson

7:04 a.m.

Haven't the really big machines been virtualise under a specialised version of Linux. I recall Andrew Tridgal working for IBM 15 years ago porting it to their Z series. On Wed, 11 Dec 2024, 12:35 pm Donald Whittemore via cctalk, < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:

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Has to be the mid to late 80s. The new OS paper is 1989. I wrote it. :)

David Wade

10:11 p.m.

On 11/12/2024 07:04, Doug Jackson via cctalk wrote:

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Haven't the really big machines been virtualise under a specialised version of Linux. I recall Andrew Tridgal working for IBM 15 years ago porting it to their Z series.

Whilst Linux runs on Z its either in a virtual machine created by zVM or in an LPAR which is in effect a virtual machine created by the microcode of the Z box. As far as I know none of the modern Linux virtualization systems work on zVM. The main difference between a zVM Virtual Machine and an LPAR is in the management facilities. They use the same underlying microcode and hardware support, but zVM is more flexible, especially when sharing parts of disks.

...

On Wed, 11 Dec 2024, 12:35 pm Donald Whittemore via cctalk, < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > Has to be the mid to late 80s. The new OS paper is 1989. I wrote it. :) >

Dave G4UGM

Dennis Boone

12 Dec 12 Dec

1:03 a.m.

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As far as I know none of the modern Linux virtualization systems work on zVM. The main difference between a zVM Virtual Machine and an LPAR is in the management facilities.

Actually, KVM and qemu exist: https://docs.kernel.org/virt/kvm/s390/index.html https://qemu.readthedocs.io/en/v8.1.5/system/target-s390x.html though why you'd use them instead of the VM or LPAR stuff on a z machine is beyond me. I imagine the usual linux cgroup&friends stuff probably works too, for containerization. De

David Wade

11 Dec 11 Dec

10:10 a.m.

On 10/12/2024 23:59, Donald Whittemore via cctalk wrote:

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There are a few on the VMSHARE Archives... http://vm.marist.edu/~vmshare/vmshare.cgi tick the "browse" box, type "humor*" in the box and click LIST... ... a few will appear e.g. http://vm.marist.edu/~vmshare/browse.cgi?fn=HUMOR94&ft=MEMO&args=KE… ... has a few interspersed with real questions, so topic drift isn't new... Dave

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participants (11)

ben
Cameron Kaiser
David Wade
Dennis Boone
Donald Whittemore
Doug Jackson
Fred Cisin
Henry Bent
Mike Katz
Nigel Johnson Ham
Rick Bensene